0:00

welcome to Lockton, man, a

0:02

fellow Boston resident. The crowd

0:04

loves the Boston. I love

0:06

the Boston accent. 038, baby, 038. 038. Because

0:08

of the accent, that thing is killer. Yeah.

0:10

Yeah, we don't recognize it. But yeah,

0:12

I guess people, you know, like

0:15

it or hate it, love it or

0:17

hate it, you know. Yeah. Now, you were

0:19

actually in that Ben Affleck movie, The

0:21

Town? Yes, yes. I had come home from

0:23

a federal prison. I went away in

0:25

2000. And when

0:27

I came home, 2010,

0:30

when they were filming, and I came home at the

0:32

end of 2009, 111 months, I ended up doing

0:34

it in total. So on the 10

0:36

years, you do 85 % of your time, as

0:38

you know, in federal prison. And,

0:41

you know, lost a little good time, which

0:43

isn't, you know,

0:45

with that much time, I don't care who you are, you

0:47

know, it's probably, it's probably going to happen. Yeah. So

0:49

I lost some good time there. I did

0:51

111 months altogether. And when I came home, it

0:53

kind of fell in my lap. didn't

0:56

kind of, it definitely fell in my lap, you know, it was

0:58

just one of those things. And yeah,

1:00

it was a great experience, you know. And

1:04

it's something that I, you know, normally like, you know,

1:06

there's certain people, maybe, you know, that I'll, you

1:08

know, sit in the head talking to whatever you're inquisitive,

1:10

you know, you're curious about it, you're asking. And,

1:12

you know, certainly, I like to share the

1:14

story because it was, it was a great

1:17

experience. But, you know, something

1:19

that you kind of keep close to the vest,

1:21

because, you know, where I'm from, you know, it's

1:23

very on territorial, very clicky. So it's like, you

1:25

get a especially being in

1:27

the prison system, you know, where

1:29

our master manipulators are, you

1:31

know, people, you know, to

1:33

this day, like still, I like to sit

1:35

against the wall and just take everything in, you

1:37

know, so kind of feel the energy. And,

1:39

you know, I feel like with that, you know,

1:41

there's a lot of haters out there, a

1:43

lot of people that misery loves company, whether they

1:45

realize they're doing it or not. And, you know,

1:47

there's very, it's hard to find genuine,

1:49

you know, genuine people, people that

1:51

actually you know if they

1:54

are asking you they're either pumping

1:56

you for information you know or

1:58

they're uh you know it's it's it's not it's

2:00

not coming from a good place you know

2:02

so with that being said yeah was it

2:04

was an awesome experience you know it was

2:06

definitely something that um that you know fell

2:08

in my lap and it was um it

2:10

was it was it was really good you

2:12

know I got to meet some good people

2:14

um you know network or whatever a little

2:16

bit that was really the first time I

2:18

was able to do that outside

2:20

of like the neighborhood or whatnot,

2:22

you know, coming home. But, um, you

2:24

know, after all that time or whatnot, you know,

2:27

I'm sure you, you know, you can relate to

2:29

this. It's like, there's no, and I wouldn't recommend

2:31

like, you know, anyone, uh, you

2:33

know, doing any research on it, but like the

2:35

euphoria of coming home and like, you know, there's no

2:37

high, I mean, this is the best feeling in

2:39

the world, you know, freedom and, uh, you

2:42

know, to be able to meet those, you know, meet

2:44

good people and, uh, it was just

2:46

nice. It was good. It was, it was different and, uh,

2:48

It was good to do something

2:51

maybe in the future. It's something

2:53

I never really followed up with.

2:55

But like you said, I know

2:57

that they love something about, even

2:59

with Hollywood, they love the Boston

3:01

thing. They love all that. And

3:03

there's that curious about people that went to prison

3:05

and having the real life thing too. Yeah, absolutely.

3:07

That's so cool that they had you a part

3:09

of that. Because that kind of is similar to

3:11

your story. Right, absolutely.

3:14

And Ben Affleck, the one thing that they had

3:17

He wanted it to be authentic. And

3:19

that's why I think that he kind of

3:21

took a liking to me. And when I

3:23

met him, we kind of hit it off.

3:25

So he was looking for what he was

3:27

looking for. He was doing his thing and

3:29

he kind of just picked my brain. And

3:31

he did that with a handful of people.

3:33

He was going to see my buddy. That

3:35

was Upstate. That

3:38

was the person that he...

3:40

That was the character.

3:42

It was loosely based. So,

3:45

you know, Hollywood does this thing, you know, I think

3:47

of, you know, the movie heat, you

3:49

know, back in the day, that's a, you know,

3:52

classic movie with, you know, all the stars and

3:54

I think Jeremy Renner did like a Val Kilmer

3:56

in that, you know, on a lower level, you

3:58

know, without the star power, but that kind of

4:00

put him on the map, you know, he was

4:02

already heading there, but with Affleck putting him there,

4:04

I mean, he kind of stole the show, you

4:06

know, Jeremy Renner and just like Val Kilmer and

4:08

heat, you know, I thought he was, he got

4:10

an arrow, he got Pacino. And

4:12

then Val Kimmel was just, he was the man,

4:14

you know. But as far as the shootouts

4:16

going, stuff like that, that's when Hollywood gets a little

4:18

crazy, you know, because. Those guys

4:20

tried it in Cali, I think years ago, you

4:23

know, with the bulletproof vest and shit and

4:25

that didn't turn out well for them. So yeah,

4:27

I just watched Den of Thieves 2 and

4:29

I saw Den of Thieves 1 years ago and

4:31

I just rewatched it and we were just

4:33

talking about how, you know, that doesn't really happen

4:35

anymore. Like the armored car robberies and the

4:37

bulletproof vest and the tactical things. Oh, absolutely. Like

4:39

it's not like what it used to be.

4:41

Well, and I think that, you know, it's funny

4:43

because I don't know if it's, you know, what

4:46

do they say you can take like a...

4:48

you know the neighborhood or you can take the

4:50

person out of the neighborhood but not the

4:52

neighborhood out of the person and to this day

4:54

you know it's like I still gotta you

4:56

know I gotta catch myself and like uh you

4:58

know if you're whether it be financial you

5:00

know insecurity which you know everyone everyone deals with

5:02

from time to time and uh you know

5:04

it's like to know that in the past like

5:06

when I was younger and like you know

5:08

kind of when there was no responsibilities there was

5:10

no and the consequences hadn't hit yet you

5:12

know I hadn't suffered enough or I haven't you

5:14

know I hadn't really face those

5:16

consequences and then realize like, wait a minute, what

5:18

am I doing here? This life's too short

5:20

and it's way too good out here. But

5:23

to think to myself, I

5:25

know that it's doable, but

5:27

that's like, it's like the angel and the devil,

5:29

it's still there and it's like, listen,

5:31

all you gotta do, if I was

5:33

gonna do anything, it'd be like, all

5:36

right, do it by yourself. But all

5:38

that thinking is just crazy talk, because

5:40

it's like, that's exhausting in and of

5:42

itself for me to like, waste

5:44

time and energy thinking like

5:46

that, but it still happens. It's

5:48

from time to time. I

5:51

try to make it an idle thought

5:53

at this point. Now, did you grow up

5:55

in Boston? I did. So I grew

5:57

up in a neighborhood called Charlestown. And

5:59

anyone that is familiar, if you're not,

6:01

it's like you think of New York

6:03

with the boroughs. That's the best way

6:05

I can describe it. So

6:08

Charlestown, it's like, it's a neighborhood

6:10

of Boston. So when you write a

6:12

letter from, you know, when I

6:14

was in Pennsylvania, you'd write child style

6:16

mass, right? And, but it's, it's

6:18

so small. It's just, it's too, too

6:20

small to be its own city,

6:22

you know? So it's made up of

6:24

a bunch of neighborhoods and this

6:27

neighborhood in particular was one of the,

6:29

you know, white Irish Catholic neighborhoods, you

6:31

know, sort of like, I guess like a Hell's Kitchen in

6:33

New York or something. I'm sure

6:35

you read the Westies when you were away, you know,

6:37

that was a classic. And,

6:41

you know, South Boston was

6:43

also just a bigger version of

6:45

Charleston. And it was one

6:47

square mile of, it's just, it's

6:49

a different place, you know,

6:51

it's something that growing up, you

6:54

know, my childhood, I wouldn't

6:56

change it for the world, but

6:58

it certainly was a lot

7:00

of misinformation, a lot of, you

7:02

know, and, you know, there

7:04

was, it's something to be said

7:07

about even You

7:09

know those good morals those good values those

7:11

you know the principles there and still you

7:13

know good people You know loyal all those

7:15

things so all those things like I feel

7:17

like we get the good and the bad

7:19

You know from not only it starts in

7:21

the home and then like even even on

7:23

the street, you know There's something to be

7:25

said, you know, you know my friend being

7:27

around like my peers are like You know

7:29

going down that corner at 15 years old

7:31

or so in and finally And

7:33

whatever went on at the house or whatever I was taught

7:36

in the house, that didn't matter anymore. It was just like,

7:38

all right, what do I got to do here? It's

7:40

there and my stripes ought to fit in

7:42

and be accepted. And

7:45

at that time, it

7:47

was almost like, right, who

7:50

can outdo the other

7:52

person? There was no

7:54

one to elaborate or

7:56

no one to, the fear

7:58

was real. the

8:00

acceptance was real, the judgment, like

8:02

I say about clicky and stuff. I

8:06

was talking about it recently and I

8:08

say, as far as I'm concerned, I

8:10

think that maybe it's a mentality that can

8:12

help us and hurt us. It can be

8:15

like a blessing and a curse, but I

8:17

feel like we've suffered enough. I feel like

8:19

that, if you've been through, it

8:21

has to be enough, I think, for the individual,

8:23

for the person to say like, all right, well, there's

8:27

no more, it's not about

8:29

like, What you think or

8:31

what what this tells me you know when

8:33

I'm not thinking right up whatever it's about like

8:35

what I know inside and like you know

8:37

kind of Kind of just like you know Being

8:39

the best version of yourself or at least

8:41

trying to you know to excel or to succeed

8:43

or just to be a decent human being

8:46

and you know on a daily basis and to

8:48

grow you know I know in prison. That's

8:50

that certainly wasn't the story You know when I

8:52

hear a guy say that I cringe, you

8:54

know, but you know, I grew up in prison

8:56

or something. It's like please

8:58

don't say that you know it's like come on

9:00

man you know it's a second hand embarrassment uh

9:03

so yeah it stunts you you know that's why

9:05

when i went away at 21 i came home

9:07

at 30 you know at best like i was

9:09

still like a teenager you know with my mentality

9:11

and stuff and you know i certainly when i

9:13

was away um i would i'd love to sit

9:15

here and tell you that i was reading you

9:17

know these books to educate myself and all that

9:19

but um you know i was just trying to

9:21

get through the time like any other person you

9:23

know playing handball and that stuff and The

9:26

scary part is that, you

9:28

know, I know

9:30

to myself, you know, I think to myself,

9:32

like I can get comfortable in those situations.

9:34

I can get comfortable in an environment like

9:36

that where there's no priorities, there's no responsibilities.

9:39

Because like I say, like, you know, this

9:42

saying is, I'm big with the sayings, with

9:44

the mantras and stuff. And it's like, you know,

9:46

I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to

9:48

live, you know? And, you know, doing things like

9:50

this is like, it may be foreign, but

9:52

at the same time, I know, I

9:55

feel, you know what, today I try

9:57

to just embrace like the good, the

9:59

positive vibes and stuff like that, you

10:02

know, meet new people and kind of

10:04

step outside the box because where I'm

10:06

from, like I said, it's very isolated

10:08

and you can get stuck in a

10:10

neighborhood like that, you know, but a

10:12

lot of pride, a lot of false

10:14

pride, you know, sometimes too, you know,

10:16

but yeah, just trying to do the

10:18

next right thing, you know, and be

10:20

a better person, you know, for the,

10:22

for the people that care about me or

10:24

need me or like and that's the

10:27

I think to myself I'm like you know

10:29

for someone to need me it's like

10:31

as crazy as it may sound to me

10:33

it's um it's a reality so it's

10:35

like um I you know the memo that

10:37

I never got I never really paid

10:39

attention to was like never picked up on

10:41

and that I've realized over the you

10:43

know over the years or you know going

10:45

through the shit I have is that

10:47

in order to be the loyal person, the

10:49

loving person, in order to be a

10:51

good dad, in order to be a good husband, you know,

10:53

a good son, a good brother, a good friend, I

10:55

need to, if I really wanna, you know,

10:58

if I pride myself on those things and

11:00

those things mean something to me, I wish

11:02

they do and I try to, you know,

11:04

I've always tried to carry myself in that way.

11:06

But the truth is, I have to take

11:08

care of myself. I have to learn how

11:10

to be okay with me in order to

11:12

be able to give that to you for

11:14

the people that want and need it. And

11:16

then in turn, we can reciprocate that. What

11:19

do your parents do for work? So

11:22

my mom, my

11:24

father was a firefighter,

11:26

a Boston firefighter. It's

11:31

fun, you know the generations they've been married

11:33

over 50 years, you know, I don't know

11:35

how they've done it, you know, honestly There's

11:37

something to be said about that generation, you

11:39

know That you know, it's in even the

11:41

commitment there. It's like no matter what you

11:43

know and It's things have changed certainly with

11:45

the relationship aspect of you know today nowadays,

11:48

you know It's it's see a high divorce

11:50

rate or you know a lot of a

11:52

lot of different things But anyway, they've been

11:54

married over 50 years. My father was on

11:56

Boston firefighter And my mother held down the

11:58

fort at home, you know, she worked part

12:00

time. And, you

12:03

know, like I say, you've heard the

12:05

term knock around people, right? You

12:07

know, there weren't, there was no criminal element

12:09

and stuff, although like there was even, you

12:11

know, my family, my extended family, I have

12:14

a big, come from a big hockey

12:16

family. My mom's maiden name

12:18

is Kachuk. And so my

12:20

cousin Keith played for a long time.

12:22

Now his two sons play Matthew and Brady.

12:25

Um, you know, if they're on your team, you

12:27

love them, you know, like a March on, but

12:29

if not, then, you know, but that's, they're, um, you

12:32

know, so I always, the hockey was a

12:34

big thing in my family. That's what I aspire

12:36

to be. You know, if they say like

12:38

I went from sports to courts, um, my buddy

12:40

says that and, um, yeah,

12:43

my mom held down the fort at home.

12:45

My father was working. He provided, um, you know,

12:47

in the movie, like a Bronx tail, you

12:49

know, the work demands a sucker. One of those

12:51

deals, um, It's funny because like as silly

12:53

as it is and we can sit here and

12:55

make light of it. But like the fact

12:58

of the matter is like there's people that think

13:00

like that. I did think like that at

13:02

one point, you know, and I never really, I

13:04

never gave my father the proper, you know,

13:06

like the respect or like even looked up to

13:08

like that's an honorable thing. He fought in

13:10

you know. And,

13:12

you know, he came home and he provided, he raised

13:14

three kids, you know, and I think we turned out

13:16

all right. You know, I got two older sisters. I,

13:20

you know, they're good kids. and

13:22

believe me, in a neighborhood like that, like

13:24

if there was something to be said, I'd been

13:26

around for 46 years, it would be said,

13:28

you know, whether malicious or not. And,

13:30

you know, so they've kind of set

13:32

the, you know, I was the golden child,

13:34

I was the boy, I was the

13:36

baby, and I got treated as such, and

13:39

I probably ate it up, I'm sure

13:41

I did, you know, but at the same

13:43

time, the consequences, I had to find

13:45

those on my own, you know, because I

13:47

was kind of, I kind of ran

13:49

amuck, you know, and I

13:52

think after when it got to me, you

13:54

know, my two older sisters, once it got to

13:56

me, my parents were just like, whatever, you

13:58

know. So they tried their And

14:00

the one thing I say is that they

14:02

showed me to this day, like I say, we

14:04

get the good and the bad. And, you

14:06

know, sometimes we tend to, as human beings, you

14:09

know, fall into that victim

14:11

mentality and think of just the bad and like,

14:13

you know, what was me? And it's like, I

14:16

try to check myself and even if

14:18

I have to say it out loud and

14:20

get vulnerable and say it in front

14:23

of, and just shout it out where it's

14:25

like the bad, but you can't forget

14:27

there's a flip side to that. There's good

14:29

also. So in that way, I try

14:31

to look at the perspective. It's like the

14:33

glass half full type deal. And that's

14:35

something I can control a lot of things

14:37

I can't, but the acceptance thing has

14:39

been big with me over the years. And

14:42

even doing time, it's like we talked

14:44

about the diesel therapy, right? And,

14:47

you know, talk about PTSD, it's like, all

14:49

right, so if you're not a sociopath, right, you're

14:51

not a psychopath, it'd be nice

14:53

to be able to check out and not live in

14:55

reality and not fail, right? But

14:58

at the end of the day, like, you know, and

15:00

as I sit across from you, like, where I'm a human

15:02

being, you're a human being, I'm gonna fail every second

15:05

of it. And I'm sure you did too. And that's the

15:07

reality of it. when they'll

15:09

sell those crack, you know, I'm not, I can't

15:11

just disassociate, you know. Certainly not without like

15:13

a drink or a drug in my system, you

15:15

know. Yeah, it's kind of surreal, like I

15:17

think. I sit back sometimes because I always think

15:19

about like how I got here and I

15:21

got here because I went to prison. And when

15:24

you think about that, it's like, wow, I

15:26

was actually in prison for three years. I know.

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16:33

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16:35

It's wild. Yes. Something that

16:37

most people never experience in their Absolutely.

16:39

And it just like, I don't

16:41

know, it's just surreal just to think

16:43

about it, you know? It is.

16:46

And it's cool. I think that it's

16:48

something that, you know, I

16:50

don't glorify it. I sit here and I'll tell you

16:52

like, you know, I'll be the

16:54

last person, you know, I do it. And

16:56

if I hear someone kind of I

16:58

love a good war story. I love a

17:00

good story to shoot the shit, you

17:02

know, and like to laugh and like and

17:04

talk about different things and, you know,

17:06

just wild stories and whatnot. But as far

17:08

as glorifying like nonsense and like shit

17:10

like that, it's like there's nothing cool about

17:12

it. That's not a flexion. I mean,

17:14

it's like that's one thing I've learned and

17:16

even being in the feds and I

17:18

am great for that. That I was that

17:20

I went there rather than upstate because

17:22

as you know, like, and I'm sure you've

17:25

you can attest like the clientele. is

17:27

far different. You know,

17:29

something to be said. I mean, you get, for

17:31

what it's worth, you know, like the,

17:33

you'd have the unabomber, you'd have like

17:35

these high profile, these people that are

17:37

like, even the, even the ones that

17:40

are like terrible people, right? They're still

17:42

like, you know, there's something, they're

17:44

on a different level as far as

17:46

like their intelligence and stuff or, you know,

17:48

maybe what they were trying to do

17:50

or whatever they believed in and stuff, as

17:52

opposed to, you know, just your everyday

17:54

run of the mill. you

17:56

know, doing petty crime and stuff like

17:58

that. So I met some, you know,

18:00

a lot of good people. I met

18:02

some, you know, and they just, they

18:04

taught you the one thing I learned

18:06

there. And, you know, it certainly

18:08

came from the home, but they kind of

18:11

molded me. It kind of helped me

18:13

out too. I had two older guys, two

18:15

OGs from Boston that kind of had

18:17

the keys to the yard there. And

18:19

they just, you know, they took me

18:21

out of their wing, you know, thank

18:23

God. And you know, like

18:26

I say all the time for what it's

18:28

worth. And, you know, Boston has a great reputation,

18:30

you know, Massachusetts in general. You're

18:32

from New England and, you know, you

18:34

know, a rat or a rapist or

18:36

a pedophile, then you'll be all right,

18:38

no matter where you go, you know

18:40

what I mean? So the diesel therapy,

18:43

like you talked about, that was, I

18:45

think to myself, when I look back

18:47

in those 111 months, like, you

18:49

know, before I got to the

18:51

feds, You know, went to the

18:53

MDC Brooklyn where they got, you know, they

18:56

got diddy now and shit like that.

18:58

Right. I laugh and I'm like, and, um,

19:00

and then flew corn air to, um,

19:02

con air. That was an

19:04

experience. Right. Oh

19:06

my God. I remember.

19:08

Yeah. That was wild. And, uh, it's,

19:12

that's the surreal pot. When I think about

19:14

it, cause like that shit happened and, uh, I

19:17

don't know if I was numb to it or whatever. I was

19:19

just like, uh, I was a kid and, and. I

19:21

kind of, I wasn't like overwhelmed with

19:23

like the, wow, like what is this?

19:25

Because like I was on a mission

19:27

to like get exactly there. And I

19:29

got what I asked for when I

19:32

look back in hindsight, you know, cause

19:34

I just didn't give a fuck. And,

19:36

you know, and I look, and thank

19:38

God, you know, like I feel like

19:40

I was, you know, people talking about

19:42

being saved and stuff. And, you know,

19:44

and I checked my ego with that

19:46

at the door because it's like, When

19:49

I went away in 2000, I was the first one

19:51

to go away for the oxycontin. And,

19:53

you know, like I say, that's not a

19:55

flex, it's a fact. It's just part of my

19:57

story. And like, when I did, I believe, you

20:00

know, I heard horror stories from that

20:03

point on. And I don't

20:05

think, you know, I know and know what they really get themselves

20:07

into. And it was, I came home to,

20:09

I could never imagine what I was going to come

20:11

home to, even with all the horror stories. The worst

20:13

part was hearing about like, you know,

20:15

like I said, I get to all the sisters, so.

20:17

hearing about like the girls I grew up with, I

20:19

got a, you know, raised to be

20:21

like a gentleman, you know what I mean?

20:23

Like, you know, I can be a, you know,

20:25

caveman like any other guy, but I mean,

20:27

you know, just to treat women with respect and

20:29

like, so I got a soft spot with

20:31

that. And I know that there was a lot

20:33

of, you know, shit that I just, there's

20:35

a lot of deviance, there's a lot of people

20:37

out there. And then that's one thing it's

20:39

to have to live in that environment with those

20:41

types of people. It's,

20:44

It's just sickening, you know,

20:46

it's disgusting. And going away

20:48

when I did in 2000,

20:50

you know, I think it

20:52

massed some things, some underlying

20:54

issues like alcoholism and, you

20:56

know, addictive personality and whatnot.

20:59

Because anything, you know, like I used, you

21:01

know, like an adrenaline junkie, you know, it's

21:04

like, like Point Break, you know, that was

21:06

a big movie, you know, growing up in

21:08

my neighborhood, you know. You'd

21:10

watch Point Break, you'd watch Heat, you know

21:12

what I mean? All those things that like

21:14

a small neighborhood and a tight community and

21:16

then with that, you know, the criminal element,

21:18

it was like, you went out and reenacted

21:20

that and like, as if life was

21:22

a movie, you know? And

21:24

in reality, it wasn't a thing until, you

21:26

know, and then when you get there and have

21:28

to sit with yourself, the worst part of

21:30

the bid when I look back, it was the

21:33

beginning. in the end, right? And it's a

21:35

different type of feeling. The beginning is like, maybe

21:37

fear of the unknown, I'll just like, fuck,

21:39

you know, looking ahead. But once you get into

21:41

a routine, you know, and then you have

21:43

that little, you know, that bit of structure, which

21:45

I never had out here. And like, that's,

21:47

that's huge, the foundation just to, you know, try

21:49

to plant my feet and like where I'm

21:52

at and just like be content with, you know,

21:54

where I'm trying to go. I

21:56

was always like, I remember they cloned

21:58

that sheep dolly back in the day

22:00

when, when that happened, I'm from the,

22:02

you know, grew up in the late

22:04

90s and that was me. I wanted

22:06

to be everywhere at once and I

22:08

felt like I was missing out on

22:10

something and in turn what ended up

22:13

happening is I missed out on quite

22:15

a bit more just because that was

22:17

my, I couldn't sit still,

22:19

you know what I mean? I wanted to

22:21

be everywhere at once and I thought I

22:23

was that important and they showed me exactly

22:25

how important I was. Did you

22:27

guys struggle financially growing up? Yeah.

22:30

I say this you know growing up

22:32

in my neighborhood. It was they I

22:34

didn't learn this to later on but

22:37

like you know, it there's big comparisons, right?

22:39

It's almost like All right, well in

22:41

it's like maybe it makes people feel

22:43

better as far as like, you know

22:45

Feeling better about their own situation or

22:47

you know, oh, we can do it on

22:49

the you know on the flip side,

22:51

you know feeling feeling worse or what

22:53

not however you want to play it

22:55

but When I looked

22:57

in comparison to like my friends, I had

22:59

two parents. Most of my friends

23:01

had, you know, came from like single

23:04

family. Most just had a mom or whatever

23:06

that would work or whatnot. There was

23:08

a lot of, you know, there was no

23:10

guidance. There was, you know, whether their

23:12

dads were murdered, whether their dads, you know,

23:14

were in prison, there was, you know,

23:16

that was a big part of it. And

23:18

it's weird because I think of like

23:20

that, you know, when I talk

23:22

about the misinformation and like, Just

23:24

growing up in a in that tight knit

23:26

neighborhood which had all of the you know

23:28

so many perks and like it was such

23:30

a you know beautiful like up you know

23:33

when I think back it was like it

23:35

was excellent it was awesome like I couldn't

23:37

couldn't have asked for a better childhood but

23:39

at the same time it was chaotic it

23:41

was wild it was dysfunctional it was and

23:43

you know. We get addicted to that right

23:45

it's like you know so now to be

23:47

able to sit still all like what's normal

23:49

like all what's like. peace like what is

23:51

that like I need you know I need

23:53

more and I need more of excitement I

23:55

need more like you know chaotic things going

23:58

on and so with that being said like

24:00

I looked around and and I thought I

24:02

was doing all right you know I thought

24:04

I was doing I was certainly was doing

24:06

better than most of my friends you know

24:08

I had the two parents I I even

24:10

think of you know you talk about shame

24:12

and guilt and like these things that we

24:14

don't identify as kids or whatnot you know

24:16

because who wants to fail those types of

24:18

way And

24:21

that I was almost ashamed that I had

24:23

to, I felt, I was embarrassed. I didn't

24:25

want to show up any of my friends,

24:28

right? I didn't, you know, that my parents

24:30

had moved in, you know, from the projects

24:32

to the house and development to a house,

24:34

right? And most of my

24:36

friends are in the projects or that house

24:38

and development. And I couldn't wait to

24:40

like, you know, I wanted to be, you

24:43

know, these were my friends, you know I

24:45

mean? I wanted to, I wanted to let them

24:47

know I'm with you. you know, this wasn't

24:49

spoken out loud, but like from through actions, like

24:51

that's like, you know, basically what was being

24:53

said. And if they could have spoke, I'm sure

24:55

they would have said like, bro, I wish,

24:57

I wish I was in a house, you know,

24:59

I wish I had like some type of

25:01

normalcy. I wish I had, you know, two parents

25:03

that, you know, that are doing their best

25:05

to provide for you and stuff. So,

25:08

you know, that's, you know, that's basically

25:10

how I grew up, you know, and

25:12

you said about like this functional, you

25:14

know, poverty stricken or whatnot. Um,

25:18

I never needed for anything. I'm

25:20

sure I wanted, but, um, you

25:22

know, my mother should thank God for

25:24

her. You know, I say like, if it

25:26

wasn't for her, uh, we'd be in trouble, but

25:28

she's good. She's very, you know, she's good

25:30

with their money. You know, she's the, she's the

25:32

brains of the operation, you know, but, but,

25:34

and, uh, the good and the bad. Yeah. We

25:37

call her called her mummy dearest growing up.

25:39

If anyone remembers that movie, um, and she ate

25:41

it up, you know, she, she, she loved

25:43

that title. Um, so. She ran with the

25:45

gold, you know, with the, with the iron fist,

25:47

uh, like the Gestapo, she's at, you know,

25:49

we're rushing in Irish, which is a, which is

25:51

a crazy mix. So there was, um, a

25:54

lot of, a lot of yelling, a lot

25:56

of, um, you know, just strict as far as

25:58

like, you were going to fall in line

26:00

based on like, you know, I laugh, we laugh

26:02

about it now because, um, like I said,

26:04

it came, it wasn't, it wasn't malicious. It wasn't

26:06

as spiteful, but you know, even at the

26:08

holidays, you know, um, you know, we'll say like,

26:10

mom, I would have rather you hit me

26:12

like, you know, like all those times you snapped

26:14

the belt. You know what I mean? Like

26:16

I still hear that shit in my head. It's

26:18

like, listen, if you're going to hit me,

26:20

you know I mean? Don't like, don't pretend you're

26:23

going to do something if you're not going

26:25

to do it. You know what I mean? That's

26:27

just like mental. I'd rather the physical, the

26:29

physical pain, you know, or the, you know, at

26:31

least I can feel that as opposed to

26:33

like, no, no, when it's coming. Cause now you're

26:35

like, you grow up and you're like, you

26:37

know, and you're always on your toes. You're

26:40

always like, you can't really get comfortable, but.

26:42

At the same time, I think it, you know,

26:45

provides like, um, you

26:47

know, a thick skin, like, you know, and,

26:49

you know, we kind of get through like some,

26:51

some, some things that maybe a lot of

26:53

people couldn't, you know, that, that, and maybe their

26:55

stuff looks good, better, good on the outside.

26:57

But, you know, there's no one, it doesn't discriminate,

26:59

you know, and I think to the, of

27:01

the saying, like what goes on in this house

27:04

stays in this house. And, you

27:06

know, I have this thing where I'm like, that

27:08

was, that's a great saying. And, um, But

27:11

to hear that as a kid, like, that

27:13

was the, that was like period. It's like, wait, no, there's

27:15

a lot more that goes on to that. Like, you know, maybe

27:17

elaborate on it, maybe let me know, like, what does that

27:19

mean? Cause now when you told me that, I didn't need to

27:21

get on the corner to learn how to keep my mouth

27:23

shut. I had to like, you know, I learned that in the

27:26

sandbox. know I mean? Like, you don't tattle on people, you

27:28

know I mean? My mother would give me a back, Annie. And

27:31

so that stuff there is like, you know, I

27:33

look back, I would try to do that with

27:35

all my kids now, just elaborate a little bit

27:37

with. these old cliches, these old

27:39

sayings that like, yeah, it comes from, it makes

27:41

sense, but maybe the person needs to, you know,

27:43

maybe you need to elaborate a little more and

27:45

let them know like where you're coming from, you

27:47

know, so they can better understand it and maybe

27:49

if they're gonna receive it and take it and

27:51

run with it, then they will, if not, then

27:53

at least you should try it, you know. Did

27:55

you have a plan for the rest of your

27:57

life as a kid? Like, did you have a

28:00

career in mind? What do you want to do?

28:04

No, I didn't. You

28:08

know, it's that's like, you know, I think

28:10

to myself I'm 46 years old and That's

28:12

something that even at you asking that question.

28:14

I kind of like I you know tensed

28:17

up a little bit where it's like You

28:19

know, I try not to regret but it's

28:21

like a human being like of course there's

28:23

things that I wish I had done different

28:25

and stuff I but I try not to

28:27

live in the past and like, you know,

28:29

and You know wallowing pity or whatnot. That

28:31

doesn't get you anywhere. That's for sure but

28:35

When I was a kid, I guess I had

28:37

the fantasies, you know what they will probably You

28:39

know, I don't want to say like you know

28:41

my expectations of my you know, I wanted to

28:43

be like my cousin I wanted to play hockey,

28:45

you know, that was my goal like what what

28:47

kid doesn't want to be you know Do something

28:49

they love and like it paid for it, right?

28:51

It's not even about the money. It's like, you

28:53

know That's why hockey's like as far as you

28:56

know, it's like hands down I saw the the

28:58

trash or shirt and stuff, you know the most

29:00

down to earth like the most like Normal

29:03

people and they just get it and

29:05

like those they're like little kids out there,

29:07

you know, they're out there still they

29:09

do that for the love of the game

29:11

really You know, it's really not about

29:13

the money, but so I wanted to Like

29:15

I talk about my dad, you know,

29:17

he was a firefighter, right? Who

29:20

doesn't love a firefighter, right? You know, they

29:22

save fucking kittens and trees, you know Even

29:24

though I'm not a cat person, but Yeah,

29:26

the city cats they used to I think

29:28

they used to I have, I have bad

29:30

memories of them. The alley cats, I'd hear

29:32

them in heat or I'd hear them fighting

29:34

and stuff, you know, in the summertime, but,

29:36

uh, with the row houses, you know, our

29:39

backyards, every, every ones was probably the size

29:41

of this room, but, um, and

29:43

I'd hear them out there. But

29:45

yeah, a firefighter, I never, I didn't

29:48

aspire to be, um, to be

29:50

those things, you know, um, and

29:53

I really, it was about, you know, like

29:55

I say, once I went down that corner,

29:57

um, I say my

29:59

mother could have been Mother Teresa and my father

30:01

could have been the Pope, you know, growing up

30:03

in like that Irish Catholic household, right?

30:06

Where, what goes on in

30:08

this house stays in this house and like, you

30:10

know, the silent treatment and, you

30:12

know, if we don't talk about it, almost

30:14

like it didn't happen, I'll sweep it under

30:16

the rug and just, that shit gets heavier

30:18

and heavier and push it down, push it

30:20

down, right? And don't, you know, don't

30:23

be careful what you tell, you know I mean? Don't tell them

30:25

too much and, just always being

30:27

on guard and living like that. Yeah,

30:30

I never, my mother could have been Mother Teresa,

30:32

my father could have been the Pope, and once

30:34

I went down the corner, in hindsight, I looked

30:36

back, I was gonna be whatever I thought you'd accept

30:38

me as. It wasn't

30:40

until I started saying those

30:42

things out loud, and to

30:44

me, I'm passionate when I

30:46

say it, I feel like

30:48

it's more so for myself

30:51

to hear, because I can

30:53

easily fall back. into

30:55

that, you know, that old, the old behaviors,

30:57

the old mindset, which will lead to the

30:59

old behaviors, you know, and getting

31:01

comfortable in uncomfortable situations, right? And

31:03

like, just like settling for less. And

31:06

yeah, being down, going down that corner, like

31:09

I say, I checked all the boxes that

31:11

I thought that, you know, it was like

31:13

a resume, right? Like an application, like, you

31:15

know, where do I go? Where do I

31:17

sign? And like, I signed, you know, I

31:19

signed my, my, my life away. I basically

31:22

There was at that point like there was no

31:24

identity being formed. There was no self -esteem being

31:26

built, right? And

31:29

I chose, you know, I based, you know,

31:31

I ran on fear. I ran on and

31:33

it wasn't, I wasn't alone. This was my

31:35

whole community, right? Or anyone, any other kid

31:37

that was doing that, right? We weren't individuals.

31:39

We weren't our own person, right? We were,

31:41

because we were too nervous to be too

31:43

scared to be, maybe we just didn't know

31:45

how, right? And that's okay, but

31:47

like no one was going to admit

31:49

that when they were kids, you know,

31:51

like we didn't even know how to

31:53

articulate that or to express that and

31:55

to communicate it with each other. And

31:57

we laugh because I don't, you know, in

32:00

a neighborhood like that, especially in the city

32:02

environment, like, you know, you weren't

32:04

going down the corner and you know

32:06

talking to your friends about your feelings

32:08

all like you know little you know

32:10

what went on your house you know

32:12

let alone your feelings and uh oh

32:14

vice versa so the conversations were kind

32:16

of very surface level and very uh

32:18

there was no meaning behind them you

32:20

know and with that it was like

32:22

everyone almost had to um you know,

32:24

play a character that, you know, I'm

32:27

sure they didn't know that they were

32:29

even playing, you know, but it was

32:31

like, based on what you, what I

32:33

thought that you thought of me, all

32:35

your, your expectations of me, you know,

32:37

that I created in my own head.

32:39

And that's a recipe for disaster, you

32:41

know. And what

32:43

I've learned is like, you know, to

32:45

be yourself and to be, I attract

32:47

when I'm on point, I attract to

32:49

people like that's one thing, like, you

32:51

know, I see you, I saw your

32:53

stuff and there's nothing better than like

32:55

someone that like I want to

32:57

learn about, I want to be creative. I want to be

32:59

artsy. Like I like to write, right? That's a passion of

33:01

mine, right? And maybe the old, like

33:04

the, you know, the kid growing up, like that's

33:06

not how we walk, talk, act, right? Or like,

33:08

certainly don't say that out loud. You know what

33:10

I mean? You might sound silly or you know,

33:12

that's corny and it's like, there's

33:14

nothing corn here than what I put

33:16

myself through. You know what I

33:18

mean? Like that's, that's really, that's the

33:20

truth. And it's something that I,

33:22

you know, I kind of, it

33:25

keeps me going, you know I mean? It really

33:27

does. It gives me, I'm passionate about like just,

33:30

I attract the people that are real, that are

33:32

authentic, that are, and maybe

33:34

that person don't even feel that way about

33:36

themselves or think that, but I can

33:38

let them know that, right? I can let

33:41

them know because why tell myself in

33:43

my head, you know, with that negative thinking

33:45

and, you know, if I'm not taking

33:47

care of myself, I'm living dishonestly, right? Because

33:49

it could be like the slightest thing,

33:51

right? What are you gonna lose sleep at

33:53

night, you know? Um,

33:55

you know, stealing from the government, you know

33:57

what I mean? Like it's like I'll be honest

34:00

with you, right? And, you know, I don't

34:02

need no fucking no one coming after me for

34:04

this, right? But I wouldn't lose sleep over

34:06

that to this day. Like corporations and stuff like

34:08

that. It's just, that's my, I

34:10

don't condone it. I don't, you know what I

34:12

mean? Like to each their own, like, you

34:14

know, but just be ready when, when, when the,

34:16

um, you know, ready to face the consequences

34:18

are, you know, I don't care what

34:20

anyone does. If you're

34:23

willing to take a shot,

34:26

whatever the thing is, I'm too busy.

34:28

I can't think of it. I'm

34:30

so much in here that I don't

34:32

have time to think about anyone

34:34

else, and that's fine when it comes

34:36

to negative stuff or stuff that

34:39

isn't gonna help me move forward or

34:41

be there for the people that

34:43

care about me, but at the same

34:45

time, I have to,

34:47

you know, humble myself in order to, like,

34:49

be able to be present for the people

34:51

or to sit here with you and to

34:53

meet new people, to network, to, um, you

34:55

know, to do my best

34:57

to, like, express myself and, like, speak my truth,

35:00

because I always say I don't think that there's...

35:02

I don't think you can fuck up the truth.

35:04

I don't think that you can... You can stutter,

35:06

you can get red in the face, right? You

35:08

can feel all types of way, but, like, if

35:10

it's your truth... I believe that

35:12

it's gonna resonate without there. Like people are

35:14

gonna receive it exactly the way it's supposed

35:16

to be received, right? And you're gonna get

35:18

the most, in turn, you're gonna get good

35:20

feedback, right? You're gonna attract the right people

35:22

to your life, right? As opposed to like, me

35:25

just regurgitate not telling you what I

35:27

think you wanna hear or, you know, kinda,

35:31

you know, not being your authentic self. So,

35:34

I don't know, I just feel like, you know,

35:36

in that regard, it's

35:39

something that, you know, I love that.

35:41

You know, I big on, it's funny

35:43

because you talked about, you know, being

35:45

away and like, I think

35:47

when Johnny bought and being shoot around and

35:49

how people, you know, people suck, right? They

35:51

can't, right? But people agree too, you know,

35:53

it's all perspective. And all, you know, this

35:55

time, I feel like those things we have

35:57

to go through as well, right? Which may

35:59

be super uncomfortable, but being in a situation

36:02

where someone judges you based on the way

36:04

you look or the way you talk or

36:06

whatever the case may be. You

36:09

know that shit. I don't get time for

36:11

that where it's like You know, I'll stick up

36:13

for you if someone's willing to defend them

36:15

someone fight for themself and they're like if or

36:17

someone that's helpless and can't help themself, right?

36:19

It's like I don't we don't you know where

36:21

I'm from. It's like, you know bullies get

36:23

bullied, you know what I mean? and

36:26

For people to label someone and stuff

36:28

like that like that's where it's like, you

36:30

know Being away in prison you see

36:32

it all the time, right and guys get

36:34

hung up on it and I know

36:36

that's part of the You know,

36:38

that's part of this that's an unhealthy

36:40

routine where it's like they're they're around

36:42

they're going around every day It's like

36:44

they're rat hunting or like benefits like

36:46

bro Like that all like as long

36:48

as you know, if it affects you

36:50

or it's good You know, I mean,

36:52

yeah, do your homework do your research

36:54

or whatnot But as far as it

36:56

consuming me and me like caring what

36:58

you know, if I don't if I'm

37:00

not breaking bread with you like it

37:02

doesn't matter, right if I'm not Have

37:05

a relationship with you or dealing with

37:07

you then What am I gonna be?

37:09

Am I gonna go around and play

37:11

that role? Because that's, to

37:13

me, that's exhausting. I

37:15

don't wanna, I just wanna, I

37:17

gotta learn how to take care of

37:19

myself. That's just focusing on shit that

37:21

is, that there's no control over, right?

37:23

That person has to live with this

37:25

shit. That we can sit

37:27

here and look in the mirror for

37:29

what it's worth. That, to

37:32

me, is everything. You

37:35

know, I'm not I don't I'm not

37:37

proud that I went to prison But I'm

37:39

I'm not ashamed of it, right? It

37:41

what happened happened, right? And I believe that

37:43

everything happens for a reason I do

37:45

And you may not understand that at the

37:47

time But you know just hang on

37:49

and like that's that's about that's where faith

37:51

comes in I believe and you know,

37:53

and then you come off the other side

37:55

and it's like alright, so that's why

37:57

that happened, you know, sometimes It's easy to

37:59

um to get caught up in that

38:01

mindset or whatnot, but Yeah. Why do you

38:03

think you decide to go down that

38:05

crime path, even though you came from such

38:07

a good family and you had good

38:09

roots? What was that like

38:11

first decision to enter into that world? Fear.

38:14

Fear. I mean, that's really what it comes

38:16

down to. Acceptance,

38:18

right? Every

38:21

person, right? You know, especially

38:23

a kid, okay? It's no

38:25

one's unique, right? It's like

38:27

we put on this, this facade

38:30

or this like bravado and you

38:33

know, we can even the way to the,

38:35

you know, even, you know, the way we

38:37

dress or whatnot, you know, it's like, I

38:39

can, you know, they say like a dressed

38:41

up garbage can, right? Like I like, I

38:43

like fashion. I like dressing up. I like,

38:45

you know, feeling, you know, feeling good, but

38:47

for a long time, like that only gets

38:50

that, what I realized for myself, it's like

38:52

when, and it's a blessing and a curse

38:54

in that way where, you know, who wants

38:56

to face it, but like, I feel like

38:58

that's the only opportunity for growth is like

39:00

the internal stuff where someone like me, like

39:02

pain's a great motivator, right? And, um, you

39:05

know, I'm stubborn, hard headed. And at the end

39:07

of the day, really it comes, it's consumed with

39:09

like, you know, like I say about people, they

39:11

wake up with, they have anxiety, right? They have

39:13

depression. Well, join the fucking club, right? And, uh,

39:15

and I say that in light, I say that

39:17

in jest where it's like, you know, not alone,

39:19

you know I mean? You know, join the club

39:21

where it's like, yeah, I get it. You know,

39:23

um, it's fucking, it can be

39:25

crippling. It can be debilitating, you know, so I

39:27

can, you know, I have compassion and empathy towards

39:29

that. But, um, when I look back, like why

39:31

I went down that. road it's

39:33

that's the That's the answer right there and

39:36

you know, it's my answer and Because I

39:38

could sit here and give you a story

39:40

and tell you like this that the other

39:42

thing like my parents didn't raise me to

39:44

go down the path I did but they

39:46

talk about product of environment right and Even

39:48

with that being said right I because I

39:50

remember I held a resentment against the neighborhood

39:53

where when I did go away and I

39:55

was young and I was probably looking to

39:57

you know point the finger in my own

39:59

head like to just you know to be

40:01

like you know, feel

40:03

like the victim and kind of like

40:05

pity myself a little bit, because I

40:07

couldn't handle those emotions and whatnot and

40:09

couldn't accept my fate or reality and

40:11

what I had done, you know, face

40:13

those consequences. So it had to be

40:15

someone, you know, some place, person place

40:17

or thing, something other than me, right?

40:19

And who wants to look at themself?

40:22

And the fact of the matter is like,

40:24

that's a lie, you know? And when

40:26

I was faced with that, it's like, all

40:28

right, so now what do you want

40:30

to do? you can continue to

40:32

suffer like that, right? But, you know, there's

40:34

nothing worse. I feel like it's like purgatory

40:36

on earth when like, you know the truth

40:38

and you're still, you know, you're

40:40

defying it, you're denying it. And it's

40:43

like, you have to be okay with

40:45

yourself. So, and I believe,

40:47

you know, being from that family that like

40:49

taught me those morals, values and principles

40:51

that like a community that I grew up

40:53

in, right? Yeah, we glorified like

40:55

when I went down that corner, if you like,

40:57

I joke around, but it's the truth, right? So,

41:01

Marijuana is like it's legal now, right?

41:03

So growing up like PCP, Angel

41:05

Dust, right? Which has, you know, embalming

41:07

fluid in it. And we, you

41:09

know, it was for generations, you know,

41:11

that was a moneymaker, but also

41:13

it was a big, it was like

41:15

smoking marijuana, right? And it's

41:17

child sounds known for like PCP.

41:19

And when I remember when I

41:21

was in Wyatt, there was, I

41:24

found out there was another neighborhood.

41:26

Bridge poured out maybe like Aaron Hernandez.

41:28

I know he used to like

41:30

to smoke the smoke the dust and

41:33

Yeah, just numbing yourself, right? I

41:35

think that's why it was so popular

41:37

and prevalent into this day, you

41:39

know, it's you know out of reality

41:41

but um Yeah, growing up there.

41:43

It's like if you were a bank

41:45

robber and if you smoked angel

41:47

dust, you know in any order, you

41:49

know one one you were cool

41:51

and two you were cooler, you know

41:54

and uh And then at that

41:56

point, right? You know, like I

41:58

said, check those boxes, right? And it's like, okay, what

42:00

do I get to do here? You know, how

42:02

do I get to this position, right? That like, and

42:05

then I thought I had

42:07

made it, right? When I had,

42:10

you know, an older friend telling me, you

42:12

know, that I heard, he heard I was doing

42:15

big things. I like, oh, you're doing big things

42:17

when I, you know, I had a brand new

42:19

Lexus truck and I'm 17, 18 years old. And,

42:21

you know, coming down to New York to meet,

42:24

to meet the connect and, you

42:26

know, I hold the, you know, so, you know, hold

42:28

the keys to the, to the, to the neighborhood like

42:30

legend in my own mind, right? Just

42:32

a scared kid, just a kid that

42:34

like, you know, didn't know

42:36

or wasn't willing to and was so

42:38

consumed or like so worried about

42:40

what I thought that you may have

42:42

thought and then what in turn this

42:44

had told me or what this was

42:47

telling me to, you know, and, you

42:49

know, initially. As

42:51

soon as you wake up in the

42:53

morning, that's my thing that I've figured

42:55

out over time where it's like, I

42:57

wake up untreated, right? So you can

42:59

label it whatever you want, but at

43:01

the end of the day, it's what

43:03

you know about yourself. And I know

43:05

that certain things, they just don't go

43:07

with me. It's

43:10

not gonna turn out well, you

43:12

know? And I feel like, yeah,

43:14

there's so much, there's more. And

43:16

what makes me feel good is,

43:21

You know, it's it's the truth, right?

43:24

And spreading the message spreading the word that

43:26

like and letting people know and if

43:28

someone picks up on it, right? Like that's

43:30

awesome. You know, it's just it's a

43:32

good feeling and like I say it's There's

43:34

something we said about it and to

43:36

be be able to sit here like we

43:39

are and and to be able to

43:41

hold your head up, right? It may not

43:43

count for it may not mean nothing

43:45

to most people but in our situation, right?

43:47

Like it means everything, right? Your rep

43:49

your name, right? My family's name my parents,

43:51

right? Yeah, those knock around people right

43:53

they they're proud of their son right even

43:55

though you know it's like what they

43:57

instilled in me like I confirmed it by

43:59

like not going to print right all

44:02

right so yeah going to prison not like

44:04

that's that's that was my shit right

44:06

but then they can still be proud of

44:08

the, like I came home and because

44:10

of that, having that support system, right? And

44:12

I say, I believe that love trumps

44:14

all that unconditional love that like as dysfunctional

44:16

chaotic and like abnormal as like a

44:18

household may be growing up, what the fuck

44:20

is normal? You know, and everyone has

44:22

their own experience. But

44:25

like, I believe that that trumps all like that's

44:27

why I think I've been able to stay home, you

44:29

know, for the past 15 years, you know, There's

44:32

been some close calls, whatnot. But

44:34

I haven't went back. And I think

44:36

it's because of that. And so for

44:38

people to have that support system, or

44:41

even to, you know, Jim Valvano, you've heard

44:43

of the guy that died of cancer, the villain

44:45

over coach. He was on

44:47

ESPN before he died. And I think of this

44:49

all the time, because when he said it, it

44:51

was so deep. And he said that his dad,

44:53

he talked about his dad and how his dad

44:55

used to tell him these simple words. He used

44:58

to say, I believe in you. Like

45:01

I say growing up in that household, right?

45:03

I knew I felt you know, there was

45:05

love, right? I felt it, right? It was

45:07

more like Like come on. What do you

45:09

like like stop it like it wasn't there

45:11

wasn't mostly, you know, there was no I

45:14

love you's and stuff like that now I

45:16

say it all the time, right and And

45:18

that's that that rubs off on people but

45:20

um That wasn't even even those that you

45:22

know communicating like that are expressing like that

45:24

where yeah, my father survived my mother was

45:26

like holding down the Ford and like she

45:28

had the three kids and you

45:30

know, life's going on and,

45:33

you know, here's

45:36

a young kid, you know, a little boy

45:38

or whatever. And it's like, I never heard

45:40

those words, right? And that's not a jab

45:42

to my dad. Like, you know, my

45:44

dad, you know, if you're drinks and be like, you know, I

45:46

love you, you know, and I'm like, dad, listen, you know, my

45:48

mother would say, what's he telling you? He loves you again. Tell him

45:50

to say it when he's not having a couple beers or whatnot. And

45:53

even to be able to say that, to communicate

45:55

that and express that to someone. Now, like, I'll

45:57

say to my kids, like, Listen, I believe in

46:00

you, right? Sometimes I wanna strangle

46:02

my son or something. I mean, choke

46:04

him and just shake him, but everyone

46:06

has their own journey. Everyone has to,

46:08

and to be able to say that

46:10

to someone, sometimes words are very powerful. So,

46:13

and actions are even more powerful, but

46:15

to be able to back that

46:17

up, it starts with the words, the

46:19

actions, and then to be able

46:21

to say, to tell someone, I believe

46:23

in you, I think of that. when

46:27

he said that, it really hit

46:29

home where it's like, we

46:31

second guess ourselves, I'll speak for

46:33

myself, I'll doubt ourselves, all those

46:35

fears and insecurities that are embedded

46:37

and then in turn, now you're

46:39

stunted emotionally and mentally because you're

46:41

making bad decisions and you're putting

46:43

yourself in harm's way and like,

46:45

now you're behind the eight ball,

46:47

right? And

46:50

I feel like even with prison, I

46:52

know that that's gonna follow me for the

46:54

rest of my life, whether it be

46:56

job opportunities, whatever the case is, right? But

46:58

I believe that we're resilient, you know,

47:00

we're survivors where, and that goes for anyone,

47:02

you know, like I said, if, right,

47:05

I'd never tell on no one and

47:07

I'm not a fucking widow, right? Like I

47:09

don't like, you know, so I'll be

47:11

all right. I tell my kids the best

47:13

thing I tell them. I'm like, listen, I

47:16

can't promise you success. I can't

47:18

promise you financial, like all that stuff.

47:21

But I will tell you this. if

47:23

you treat people the way that you want to be

47:25

treated, you'll be okay in life.

47:27

And that's, I believe that firmly, you know?

47:30

And that's, I learned that in fucking grammar

47:32

school, you know? Just treat people the way

47:34

you want to be treated. And it's, yeah,

47:36

I think that's the way to go, you

47:38

know? Did you end up graduating high school

47:40

at all? So, I

47:43

did graduate, I was, believe

47:45

it or not, yeah, I was a

47:47

honor roll student. Really, huh? Okay.

47:50

Honor roll student, right? Actually,

47:52

it's yeah, it looked like you in high school doing

47:54

freshman year. I had the glasses, right? I remember

47:56

walking around. I had my books. Everyone had backpacks. And

47:59

now I wear contacts. And that's a funny

48:01

story. You talk about fucking craziness. I was

48:03

in sixth grade. I went home. This is

48:05

how I, this is why my eyes, like

48:07

if I didn't have my contacts and I

48:09

wouldn't be able to function like throughout the

48:11

day, I'd be like legally blind, probably I'd

48:13

say. In sixth grade

48:15

I must have thought like saw someone on a

48:18

magazine or thought someone was cool that had

48:20

glasses and I went home and I told my

48:22

mother right because how do we get you

48:24

know the manipulation and like you know and I

48:26

went home and I told her all right

48:28

I can't see the blackboard ma and She said

48:30

all right, so she makes an appointment for

48:32

the automatrists and I go and I feel the

48:34

test on purpose So needless to

48:36

say, I can't see now, right? So I

48:38

have to wear the contacts, which I, you know,

48:40

I sleep with it. It's supposed to be

48:42

taken out and like a little kid, you know,

48:44

I still need to be handled like that

48:46

sometimes, you know, but, um, so it's

48:49

trial and error, but I made

48:51

on a roll and I attributed to

48:53

like my mother that being, you know,

48:55

mummy dearest being, I was scared of

48:57

my mother to this day, right?

48:59

She, she, I still have that fear,

49:01

right? Um, And, you

49:03

know, I try to look at it like, you

49:06

know, there's probably more for like

49:08

therapy, therapy or counseling session where it's

49:10

like, you know, that's just real

49:12

too, you know, you

49:14

know, PTSD where it's like, you

49:17

know, just being, when someone feels small, when someone,

49:19

I remember being a little kid and being at

49:21

the top of the stairs and like, we

49:24

don't realize how we affect other people

49:26

and like, It

49:28

really runs like you know shit rolls

49:30

downhill or it's like we have a

49:32

profound effect on people and And it's

49:34

not like a malicious thing like you

49:36

know like you know my intent I

49:38

feel like I've always had good intent,

49:40

right? But what's that mean?

49:42

What's that count for right? I've also hurt

49:44

people because you know, I'm not perfect, right? So

49:47

that's more for when you know to say

49:49

that that's more for myself more for my

49:51

own like you know, well I didn't mean

49:53

to or you know or even growing up

49:55

thinking like, you know, my mental name was

49:57

like sorry, you know, always saying sorry. And

49:59

like that doesn't, what I've learned in like,

50:02

that doesn't help build self -esteem. It

50:04

doesn't, it doesn't help like build character

50:06

or anything like that because you're

50:08

self -loathing, right? You feel like, for

50:10

someone to always say sorry, right? Well,

50:12

I had to always say sorry

50:14

because maybe I started off feeling less

50:16

than whatever, right? And that's my,

50:18

that's something that maybe, you know, Whatever

50:20

the case is I'm obligated to

50:22

do something about it right because or

50:24

else I'm gonna suffer right and

50:26

I'm gonna be that victim and I'm

50:28

gonna be on the installment plan

50:30

right and Yeah, that's it's it's not

50:32

um, that's not for me anymore

50:35

But it's it's certainly there you know

50:37

this is like they say there's

50:39

jail cells for for sober people There's

50:41

jail cells for you know people

50:43

that are just living You know just

50:45

living their life and they're not

50:47

you know, it doesn't seem like Check

50:49

a little, the sky's falling, everything looks

50:51

good. There's certainly jail cells

50:53

for them, so I don't want

50:56

to be in that position anymore.

50:58

Share with us what happened that

51:00

gave you that long federal

51:02

prison sentence. Give us the rundown

51:05

story. Like I

51:07

said, I hit the

51:09

corner. I went from

51:11

sports to courts. I played

51:13

sports growing up. I

51:16

went to Catholic school,

51:18

went to high school.

51:22

And after I graduated, I graduated high school and

51:24

I went to school. I was either gonna

51:26

go to UMass, Sam Hurst or I ended

51:28

up going to, I found a school that was

51:30

like the biggest party school at the time.

51:33

It was like North Adams State College. That's where

51:35

my mind was at. I just, and

51:37

I went there in the first year.

51:39

It was like, it was turning into like

51:41

Mass College of Liberal Arts, right? That

51:44

was right there. That should have been like

51:47

a, you know, kind of a red flag or

51:49

something that I picked up on. But I

51:51

didn't know it was kind of like led to

51:53

where, you know, I was I was about

51:55

to go and stuff. And I couldn't see it,

51:57

you know, I certainly couldn't see it. So

51:59

I ended up around 15. I

52:01

went down the corner around 15

52:04

high school. You know, I was

52:06

I was there down the corner. I was

52:08

with with my friends. And, you

52:10

know, there was a lot of fun there, you know, but, you know, a lot

52:12

of chaos, a lot

52:14

of, you know, abnormal, just

52:16

wild shit, you know, stuff that

52:18

we can, you know, maybe

52:20

laughable, but this stuff probably that

52:23

should be either forgotten or

52:25

really, you know, gotten out and

52:27

purged of. But I went

52:29

down that corner and then, you

52:31

know, I had, like I

52:33

say, I had a run from

52:35

like maybe 15 or 16. And,

52:38

you know, at this time, you know, now,

52:40

I had to be like, you know, that

52:42

legend in my own mind. I had to

52:44

create that character that I didn't know I

52:46

was creating. So I

52:49

started out and, you

52:51

know, I made my bones, I earned

52:53

my stripes and I went above and

52:55

beyond to like make sure that like

52:57

you knew that like I was, you

52:59

know, I was one of you, you

53:01

know, and it got me exactly where

53:03

it was supposed to get me. 21

53:08

years old I had that run from

53:10

life, you know that that was my

53:12

childhood basically that was my it wasn't

53:14

my you know the The good failings

53:16

that was my that was the wild

53:18

and crazy and Basically where you know

53:20

where it got me and at 21

53:22

years old I Like I said, I

53:24

was driving to Maine. I was driving

53:26

to Maine. I had a few friends

53:29

I played for University of Maine They

53:31

had won the national championship. I think

53:33

the year before And

53:35

one of my friends called me, he said, are you

53:37

holding? I said, absolutely always. And he said, all right, well,

53:40

he said, Juan, you come up with us

53:42

a big party tonight. So

53:45

at the time I remember I had, you know, my

53:47

parents, I was like, they, I

53:49

thought I was like a big boy now. I thought like

53:51

I had it all figured out. I was gonna get my

53:53

own apartment. I didn't like the way they, you know, I

53:56

felt like I'm a man now, you know, like, you know,

53:58

you don't, you know, I don't need, you know I mean?

54:00

Like show me some respect, you know? And,

54:04

And so I remember I was kinda like just,

54:07

I was in the car, I'm

54:09

staying at hotels and just

54:11

living, living crazy, right? And thinking

54:13

it's all, I'm trying to

54:15

think it was fun. And

54:18

I remember I drove to New Hampshire

54:20

and when I drove to New, I drove

54:22

to Maine and I had missed the

54:24

exit for Maine. I was looking for one

54:27

specifically for Maine and I ended up

54:29

seeing like New Hampshire, Maine and I realized

54:31

that I had like went around in

54:33

a circle. So on

54:35

impulse I, you know, I

54:37

get annoyed and I hit the

54:39

gas and I ended up,

54:41

you know, now I'm speeding and

54:43

I come under an overpass

54:45

and, you know, in the dip

54:47

there, there's two stateys, they're

54:49

facing each other like that. And

54:53

I was probably going 90 or so. I

54:57

wish, you know, when I look back, I'm

54:59

like, you know, it's pointless now, but I'm

55:01

sure I could have at least like got

55:03

to an exit or whatever, but I think I

55:05

think even even that I think it was

55:08

bigger than me I think that that was like,

55:10

you know my high a power God that

55:12

you know that I that I grew up knowing

55:14

that that he was just like I had

55:16

enough enough kid You know what I mean? Like

55:18

you're not stopping so like This this you

55:20

know, I'm gonna put an end to this and

55:22

I ended up deciding to pull over for

55:24

whatever reason and I pulled over I had like

55:27

a pharmacy's worth of you know, I had

55:29

over $5 ,000 oxy con And I had And

55:32

I had a nine millimeter, I had a gun underneath the

55:34

seat. And now

55:36

with that being said, right, you know, where

55:38

I grew up, it's like, yeah, notorious and

55:41

like, it's like, you know, bank robbery and

55:43

armored trucks and stuff like that. And that

55:45

was glorified. And like that, that happened. That

55:47

was, that was a real thing. And something

55:49

that, you know, that was, that was, that

55:51

was where it was at. That was like

55:53

what kids aspire to be, teenage kids, teenage

55:55

boys, but certainly. And, When

55:59

I look back. Yeah, I ended up I

56:01

got pulled over We never we never carried guns

56:03

around stuff unless you were going to do

56:05

a score right that like are you know someone

56:07

had an individual beef or something to you

56:09

know, typically, you know in the You know 80s

56:11

and like early 90s. Yeah, there was you

56:13

know guys that you know There was a lot

56:15

of murders and stuff like that and you

56:18

know code of silence and people even mothers that

56:20

knew that that their that their child had

56:22

gotten killed by a certain person like they just

56:24

you know was just not talked about,

56:26

you know, was handled on the street or whatnot. And but

56:28

for the most part, like, you know, I fought every one

56:30

of my friends growing up and, you know, we get you

56:32

get closer like that, you know. And

56:34

that's just boys being boys. And, you know,

56:36

there was so there was no like

56:38

people didn't carry guns around where I'm from,

56:40

you know, like that wasn't gang bang

56:42

and all shit like that, you know, that

56:44

wasn't our story, you know, we didn't

56:47

need to. But when it was time to

56:49

time to get down, that's that's what,

56:51

you know, there was it was they were

56:53

very available and You

56:55

know everyone everyone was ready to go. So

56:57

I had that gun and I Remember

56:59

I go pulled out the guy said step

57:01

out of the car and you know

57:03

He you know the inventory the old inventory

57:05

search, you know, which they're not supposed

57:08

to really touch anything just look around and

57:10

you know, so He ended up opening,

57:12

you know, he ended up, you know looking

57:14

around and he had me in the

57:16

back of the crew was a And

57:18

at that point, what are you gonna do, you know? You know, he

57:20

asked, can I service the trunk? Absolutely no, you know? Come on, you already

57:22

got me. You know what I mean? You think I'm gonna make your

57:24

job easier? But I remember

57:27

feeling the weight, like a gorilla. I

57:29

felt like a huge weight come off

57:31

my shoulders. I didn't know what

57:33

it was at the time, but it

57:35

was almost as if I could, you know,

57:37

I exhaled for the first time since

57:39

I was that kid with like, there was

57:41

still some innocence left or still some,

57:43

you know, that five, six years of like

57:46

just... Just madness, you

57:48

know was exhausting and I felt like

57:50

I you know Almost held my

57:52

breath the whole time, you know, just

57:54

just and when he put those

57:56

cuffs on something just I was just

57:58

like, you know Like you know,

58:01

I needed to be stopped and You

58:03

know, I look back and you

58:05

know at the time I wasn't obviously

58:07

I wasn't throwing up, you know,

58:09

I wasn't celebrating that or you know,

58:11

I wasn't I was

58:13

broken at the time. I was a kid.

58:15

I was scared. I was, more than

58:18

anything, I was just hurt. I was just

58:20

like a shell of a person. And

58:22

my family, like I said, they showed up.

58:24

They supported me, whatnot. They've always been

58:26

there for me. And

58:29

I was 21 years old,

58:31

and they sentenced me with

58:33

the feds. They go by

58:35

the guidelines. So hire

58:37

a lawyer for 50 grand. they

58:42

plead out like you just took 50 grand,

58:44

50 grand for me in fucking to plead out

58:46

for the lower end of the guidelines. Like

58:49

I'll take my, I'll represent myself next time, right?

58:51

How did it become a federal case from

58:53

the state troopers arresting? What inspired? So

58:55

924C means using carrier firearm in

58:57

relation to a drug trafficking crime, right?

59:00

I'm no law expert, but I

59:02

know this from my, from my case.

59:04

And what they're saying is that you were

59:07

using and carrying the gun to protect

59:09

the drugs. Okay. Which wasn't

59:11

the case. But that's

59:13

how they get you. So now they get me

59:15

for crossing state lines. That's federal, okay?

59:18

Well, at the same time they had started in

59:20

2000 right before I went away. I

59:22

was, like I said, I was,

59:25

I kind of put a little resume together,

59:27

you know? And, you know,

59:29

I had the fed show up at my

59:31

house and with my parents there. And that

59:33

was kind of a funny story. That's one

59:35

of the stories I told the Affleck, you

59:37

know, that he got a kick out of. And

59:40

you know play good cop bad cop and

59:42

just try to let me know like they

59:44

were that's what they were doing But they

59:47

were you know they were trying to pump

59:49

for information, but it was like you know

59:51

you got the you got the wrong person

59:53

You know I mean this is because you

59:55

were selling oxy We were robbing you know

59:57

at that point I had stepped out I'd

59:59

stop I'd started down You know the banks

1:00:01

and then from then realizing that the banks

1:00:03

is not enough there's no money in banks,

1:00:05

right? If you're gonna make it worth it,

1:00:07

right? Like you're gonna make that move, you're

1:00:09

gonna step out, then like the army trucks

1:00:11

is the way to go, right? And that's

1:00:13

just - But you never went to prison

1:00:15

for robbing banks. No, no, right. So

1:00:17

in statute of limitations, so that's a

1:00:19

good thing. But

1:00:23

yeah, I remember, you know, so they were investigating for

1:00:25

that. So the feds were already, they were investigating for

1:00:27

that. One of the kids I

1:00:29

was running with, my running part of the time, you know,

1:00:31

he's doing life now. And

1:00:34

I had no business being, you know,

1:00:36

but I was, like I said, I was

1:00:38

a follower. I, you know, I got

1:00:40

in where I thought I could fit in

1:00:42

and like, and I ran, I would

1:00:44

have ran, you know, like

1:00:46

I say, I'm the asshole, like, and

1:00:48

I say this for my own self

1:00:50

and like to, to humble myself where

1:00:52

like, you know, that, that loyalty, like

1:00:54

loyal to a fault where like, like

1:00:57

I'll end up catching a life bit as, as

1:00:59

your co -defendant because like, you know, cause you're

1:01:01

my friend or I grew up with you or

1:01:03

like you're from the neighborhood and like you're a

1:01:05

good dude, you're solid, right? Maybe you might

1:01:07

be out of your fucking mind, right? And

1:01:10

all that sociopath or psychopath or like,

1:01:12

you know, untreated, like, you know, off

1:01:14

your meds, whatever the case may be.

1:01:17

And next thing you know, you

1:01:19

know, I'm an accessory to murder or whatever,

1:01:21

you know, whatever it is. And now I'm

1:01:23

doing life in prison because I put myself

1:01:25

in a bad position around, you know, someone

1:01:27

that It doesn't matter. Like it's not a

1:01:29

moral thing, right? They may be if I

1:01:31

can, I may think very highly of

1:01:33

them, you know, but, um, so

1:01:36

I was, I ended up, they were

1:01:38

investigating, you know, the feds, they had investigated

1:01:40

that, you know, there's a bank robbery

1:01:42

task force. So they're already on your tail

1:01:44

when the state he's pulled you over.

1:01:46

Yes. Okay. So they must have got the

1:01:48

call and they were like, you know,

1:01:50

um, okay, you know, they must have. How

1:01:52

much was those drugs worth? Like dollar

1:01:54

value retail the total the score all together

1:01:56

and I know this from my paperwork

1:01:58

and stuff and you know just being bored

1:02:00

and in there you know when you

1:02:02

when you're fighting your case Is you know

1:02:04

one of the one of the kids

1:02:06

might my friend from cell boss and that

1:02:08

I ended up just he was hanging

1:02:10

out with me that day because a couple

1:02:12

days prior You

1:02:14

know, like I said about the pharmacy's like,

1:02:17

you know people when I went away people

1:02:19

like I heard horror stories of people like

1:02:21

they were going in with butter knives Like

1:02:23

I never was I wasn't addicted to the

1:02:25

to these pills, right? I was I was

1:02:27

I was we were getting them and I

1:02:29

was flipping them right away, you know In

1:02:31

my two buddies that that that we started

1:02:33

that we started doing it And then it

1:02:35

was monkey see monkey do but my two

1:02:38

buddies they they both passed away, you know,

1:02:40

and they were two younger kids these kid

1:02:42

have balls their balls were They

1:02:45

were, these kids had so

1:02:47

much heart, but like, and I wish that

1:02:49

like, you know, I wish that

1:02:51

they could have another chance to just like, you know,

1:02:53

put that heart like where it's, you know, and

1:02:55

I talk about the code or like, you know, there's

1:02:57

something to be said about like, yeah,

1:02:59

we may fuck up our life. So I'll put ourselves

1:03:01

in positions where we end up in prison. But

1:03:04

like, I feel like when we do something,

1:03:07

we go all in, right? And when we

1:03:09

take an oath, we, all we, all we,

1:03:11

you know, we honor a code, right? Like

1:03:14

I said, it doesn't have to mean anything

1:03:16

to anyone else, but like From where I'm from

1:03:18

and like you know where where where we

1:03:20

grew up like and where you've been like

1:03:22

that counts for everything You know what I mean?

1:03:24

So God forbid if like if if the

1:03:27

thing if things ever you know if you ever

1:03:29

have to end up in that environment or

1:03:31

whatnot It's um, it's nice to know like

1:03:33

you know, it's you know, you can survive anything

1:03:35

and uh What you know would I try

1:03:37

to survive now is life, you know on

1:03:39

a daily basis, but they had the bank robbery

1:03:41

task force Then it's

1:03:43

an oxy cotton task force and Margaret

1:03:46

Cronin was her name Yeah, and

1:03:48

you know, it's all in the paperwork,

1:03:50

but the total value for that

1:03:52

school was like close to like a

1:03:54

million dollars now now that's between

1:03:56

four people, you what I mean and

1:03:58

Like street value obviously, you know,

1:04:01

I mean you take I you know

1:04:03

it'd take less but um, that's

1:04:05

a catchy headlines. I got to do

1:04:07

that, you know, yeah, yeah and But

1:04:10

like I said, you know, I look

1:04:12

back and, you know, my friend from South

1:04:14

Boston, he was just hanging out with

1:04:16

me one day and my buddy who passed

1:04:18

away, he said, Joe, we're gonna, you

1:04:20

know, we're gonna do that, do that score.

1:04:22

And these kids, the wild, they, now

1:04:24

I'm the older kids of them, right? I'm

1:04:26

a few years older. And

1:04:30

these kids didn't give a

1:04:32

fuck, right? They'd hop

1:04:34

the counters and at banks, and

1:04:36

they'd watch the movie Heat, get all

1:04:38

amped up, right? here

1:04:41

I am, right? And I'm like, all right, so the younger

1:04:43

kids, they're asking me, so I can't say no, right? And I'm

1:04:45

like, fuck, I really don't want to, you know. The

1:04:47

shit that runs through your head

1:04:49

too, it's like, yeah, it's the

1:04:51

ultimate high, but it's like crazy

1:04:53

shit, like silly stuff. It's almost,

1:04:55

it's comical, but... That rush is

1:04:57

like so intense. You

1:05:01

know, I remember, I talk about this, you

1:05:03

know, my first, one of my first, the,

1:05:05

the bank robbery was, I

1:05:07

remember I had like a dirty hair. He was

1:05:09

like a 45, right? And I'm like this, you know,

1:05:11

skinny, like 17 year old kid and I got

1:05:13

to paint his outfit on and like, like

1:05:15

that wouldn't stick out, right? And I'm,

1:05:18

I'm suited up like God from head to

1:05:20

toe and it's a Friday morning. Cause

1:05:22

like, you know, You

1:05:24

know, we watch movies, right? We do our homework.

1:05:26

We learn from the older guys in the neighborhood,

1:05:28

right? And that's, you know, that's Bible as far

1:05:30

as we're concerned at that age. And

1:05:33

I remember going in and I was supposed to

1:05:35

hold the floor. So it was holds the floor.

1:05:37

So my buddy helps the concert and I'm holding

1:05:39

the floor and it's a Friday morning. Now people

1:05:41

are catching their checks, right? We're

1:05:43

in a Spanish neighborhood, right? Cause

1:05:45

we don't do it in our neighborhood, right?

1:05:47

You don't, you don't shit where you eat.

1:05:49

And I remember I had like a 45

1:05:51

and like, This thing was

1:05:54

huge. It was like, I must

1:05:56

have looked so ridiculous, but there

1:05:58

was a couple of Spanish girls

1:06:00

in there and they were huddled

1:06:02

up together, you know. And

1:06:04

I look back and like talk about being raised

1:06:06

with that family where like, that's not

1:06:09

like doing this. Yes, I did these things,

1:06:11

but like that's not how I was raised to

1:06:13

be. And I remember, now we're

1:06:15

in there in like 10 seconds, probably feels like a

1:06:17

minute, a minute feels like an hour, right? And I'm like,

1:06:19

all right, all right, you know, I'm trying to be

1:06:21

patient. The guy comes in and I like, all right, you

1:06:23

know, put him on the floor and like, and

1:06:26

I always tell people it's like, you know, in Pope fiction,

1:06:28

you know, everybody, you know, everybody be cool. This is a robbery,

1:06:30

you know what I mean? know, you know, I can't come

1:06:32

up with nothing original at that point, you know, maybe, maybe now

1:06:34

I could, but, uh, and

1:06:36

I remember the, I had, maybe I got

1:06:38

spooked or I was paranoid, you know, like I

1:06:40

got a little, I kind of, um, you

1:06:42

know, cause you want to be calm. Like I

1:06:44

never did, I never did a robbery when

1:06:46

I was, I never was under the influence, you

1:06:48

know, that's one thing. And, but

1:06:50

that just fed into the ego where it's like,

1:06:53

I label myself these things like first a drug

1:06:55

dealer or a stick up kid. Like, I'm, you

1:06:57

know, I'm, I'm that guy. And like the fact

1:06:59

of the matter was like, you know,

1:07:01

no, I'm the guy that will do these

1:07:03

things to like let you know that. And

1:07:06

I remember I pointed the

1:07:08

gun, I pointed the gun

1:07:10

at the, at

1:07:12

a woman in you know, a middle

1:07:14

-aged woman and To this day like

1:07:16

it and it's not something I'm proud

1:07:18

of it's you know, it's not funny.

1:07:20

It's fucking actually it's probably haunts me

1:07:22

a little you know, it's but I

1:07:24

remember I saw the look in her

1:07:26

eyes and it was like a deer

1:07:28

in the headlights and And I remember

1:07:30

lowering it right. I'm not in there

1:07:32

trying to hurt anyone, right? I just

1:07:34

want I just want what I want

1:07:37

when I want it and like you

1:07:39

know And

1:07:41

I remember lowering and I was like, you know, I'm

1:07:43

sorry, you know what I mean? I'm not here.

1:07:45

Now here I am explaining like I'm robbing this bank,

1:07:47

right? And these people are

1:07:49

probably like, you know, I don't know what happened

1:07:51

to that woman. I don't know if she had

1:07:53

a heart attack. I don't know, you know, those

1:07:55

are the things that like, you know,

1:07:57

I tell that story because

1:07:59

like it's, it happened, right? Where,

1:08:02

and to know like it's like that, I

1:08:04

look back at that and, just

1:08:08

the thinking and like that, like

1:08:10

what I was willing to do and

1:08:12

who I was willing to put

1:08:14

in harm's way and you know, not

1:08:16

thinking about anything, but what I

1:08:19

needed and what I wanted and that's

1:08:21

not how I was raised, like

1:08:23

I say, you know, to

1:08:25

this, you know, I don't condone that shit that, you

1:08:27

know, I would be completely against, I'd be the first

1:08:29

person, I'd walk an old lady across the street with

1:08:31

her groceries, you know, that's how we were brought up

1:08:33

and I'm sure you would do the same thing. But

1:08:36

when it came down to that stuff, it was

1:08:38

like, you know, just

1:08:40

almost as if you, you should have known

1:08:42

when I walked in that like, you

1:08:44

know, all right, we had a collect and

1:08:46

like this is, you know, this is

1:08:48

our tribute. How did your parents

1:08:51

react to your arrest when they found out?

1:08:53

What was that first conversation with them like? You

1:08:58

know what? I remember they came

1:09:00

to the state police barracks and

1:09:02

I was, you know, Talk

1:09:04

about shame. I remember I was just

1:09:06

like I had my head down. I

1:09:08

couldn't even look at them the eye,

1:09:10

you know, and I had the shackles

1:09:12

and the cuffs and And they were

1:09:14

just they were they were sad. They

1:09:16

were just devastated You know, my mother

1:09:18

had told me later when she'd come

1:09:20

they'd come once a year once I

1:09:22

went to Palombo to Pennsylvania and And

1:09:26

she would come in and she, you

1:09:28

know, I remember her saying like it

1:09:30

was she could sleep finally when I

1:09:32

was when I was away, you know

1:09:34

the stuff that we put our families

1:09:36

through and You know, that was that

1:09:38

feel good, you know, it's like the

1:09:41

last thing you want to do is

1:09:43

hurt hurt a loved one or hurt,

1:09:45

you know hurt anyone For that matter

1:09:47

But it was like that selfish like,

1:09:49

you know, that immature selfish attitude and

1:09:51

Even even when I got sentenced I

1:09:53

remember thinking I had already taken the

1:09:55

plea for 111 months in my head

1:09:57

because I couldn't wrap my head around

1:09:59

that. I'm 21 years old and I

1:10:02

remember being in the tank in the

1:10:04

cage and they brought me down right

1:10:06

before I went up to get sentenced.

1:10:09

Here I am thinking in my head like

1:10:11

pacing back and forth. I'm like, they're

1:10:13

gonna see my family. They're gonna look at

1:10:15

me and be like, look at this.

1:10:17

He's not that bad. They're

1:10:19

gonna know who Joe is at his core. see

1:10:23

through, um, and they're going

1:10:25

to see that like this kid don't, don't

1:10:27

deserve this, right? Well, that's

1:10:29

not, that's not the way it works.

1:10:31

Uh, my judge was the

1:10:33

space shuttle that blew up when I was

1:10:35

a kid, uh, Kristen McCullough, she was from

1:10:37

New Hampshire. I want to say she was

1:10:39

a school teacher and her husband, Judge McCullough,

1:10:41

he was my, he was my federal judge. Um,

1:10:45

and I got sent inside New Hampshire

1:10:47

and. They ended up

1:10:50

yeah, and then I ended up going

1:10:52

after like a year and a

1:10:54

half almost two years. I stayed in

1:10:56

New Hampshire in like a county

1:10:58

jail, which was Yeah, so

1:11:00

I kind of ran a muck there,

1:11:02

you know, I was young and wild and

1:11:04

you know And I had the energy

1:11:06

to be able to do that stuff, you

1:11:08

know since the money owns my dad

1:11:10

for the cigarettes and stuff, you know Like

1:11:12

I said, I was still playing that

1:11:14

role and still like, you know along the

1:11:17

way and and I guess I needed it

1:11:19

to like, you know, survive at that

1:11:21

point. And then I went, when

1:11:23

I went to the feds, like I

1:11:25

said, those, my, you know, my two older,

1:11:27

older guys, you know, Stevie L and Richie

1:11:29

G, you know, they just took me to

1:11:31

the wing and they, they showed me they

1:11:33

like, I grew up with them as far

1:11:35

as like, they taught me about respect and

1:11:37

like more, more so how to respect, you

1:11:39

know, yourself and in turn be able

1:11:42

to show like true genuine respect for another

1:11:44

person. You know I mean? Cause they, they

1:11:46

had been there. They didn't, they weren't, you

1:11:48

know, I wasn't a crash dummy, you know, they

1:11:51

weren't, you know, gassing me up all like,

1:11:53

you know, putting batteries in my back to

1:11:55

like, they cared, you know, they're good people

1:11:57

and they had seen enough and they had

1:11:59

been through enough and they were still going

1:12:01

through it. And they saw a young kid

1:12:03

come in that, you know, certainly didn't have

1:12:05

a clue. And, you know, when I needed

1:12:07

to be They

1:12:10

needed to fuck with me, you know I mean?

1:12:12

They certainly let me hear it. They needed to

1:12:14

like humble me or whatever. I'll let me know

1:12:16

like my place. And they did that, which I'm

1:12:18

grateful for. And when I needed to be uplifted

1:12:20

or needed to be like called a little, you

1:12:22

know, as that, like I said, that kid, that

1:12:24

the baby boy, you know, of the house, that

1:12:26

mama's boy, like they did that as well. So,

1:12:29

you know, I look back and I'm, you

1:12:31

know, for those guys, like I'm forever grateful.

1:12:33

You know I mean? Those are my friends, like,

1:12:35

you know, and I believe a friend is

1:12:37

someone that, You don't

1:12:39

have to see you know the best way I can

1:12:41

say it is like I don't have to see you know

1:12:43

me and your friends I don't have to see you

1:12:45

facts amount of time when we see each other we pick

1:12:47

up where we left off They'll never be that you

1:12:49

know when you got the person that says oh where you

1:12:51

been all like Oh, you know when they make you

1:12:53

feel a type of way. It's like bro. I'm living my

1:12:55

life, right? You all live in your life,

1:12:58

right? There's no love loss, right?

1:13:00

And Everyone's just doing the best they can

1:13:02

and you pick up where you left off

1:13:04

and It's very rare to find those types

1:13:06

of relationships, you know, but, um, you know,

1:13:08

I cherish them. So as far as like

1:13:10

the, yeah, I ended up, I got the

1:13:12

111 months, you know, you would ask what

1:13:14

the, my parents thought they were just, they

1:13:16

were sad. They were, they were devastated. And

1:13:19

I think they were relieved, to be honest

1:13:21

with you. Is Richie in Boston? Is he from

1:13:23

Boston area? You know Richie. Yeah, I do.

1:13:25

I met him at Revere, right? Captain

1:13:27

Morgan. Yeah, we're trying to get him on the

1:13:29

show. He wears glasses. Yes, Richie's the best. Yeah,

1:13:31

I didn't know he was there with you, too.

1:13:33

Yeah, I think he's leaning towards doing it. He's

1:13:35

seen me film a couple episodes. Old

1:13:37

school guy. No, that's the guy

1:13:39

right there. That's the guy right there. And,

1:13:42

you know, if Steve, you could come on with them,

1:13:44

them too. The

1:13:48

odd couple right but they're like, you know,

1:13:50

there's so much alike. They're so they're so

1:13:52

different and Like I said, you know, they

1:13:54

would there were times and and they would

1:13:56

they would switch, you know, they're talking about

1:13:58

a good cop bad couple It's like good

1:14:00

good con fucking, you know, a tough love

1:14:02

and like then like, you know You know

1:14:04

some affection where they would they would play

1:14:06

that right if if Steve was bullshit at

1:14:08

me, right? Because this I'm a kid. I'm

1:14:10

making mistakes, right? I'm doing things that maybe,

1:14:12

you know, I don't see like a few

1:14:14

moves ahead, like they see, like, you know,

1:14:16

what could happen, how, you know, how

1:14:18

to act, how to carry myself, how

1:14:21

to, how to, you know, basically just

1:14:23

fall in line and like, you know,

1:14:25

kind of almost be invisible, but like

1:14:27

also have a voice like when need

1:14:29

be and, you know, knowing

1:14:31

that you don't want to stick out in an environment like

1:14:33

that, you know, you just kind of want to keep your

1:14:35

head down, but, you know, let people

1:14:37

know, like, that's not for, you know, that

1:14:40

doesn't mean anything about being soft or

1:14:42

anything like that, you know, it's like that,

1:14:44

that's, And that's what they taught me. So

1:14:46

right there, Richie, he is, I

1:14:48

tell him, I told him, the last time I

1:14:50

talked to him, I'm like, Richie, he helps a

1:14:52

lot of people. He's

1:14:54

very selfless. And

1:14:56

his story is amazing. And I told

1:14:59

him, I said, you can help

1:15:01

a lot of people, even more so

1:15:03

than you already do. And I

1:15:05

think you'd be the perfect person that

1:15:07

could present him to an audience

1:15:09

or whatnot. With

1:15:12

the platform that you have I think you

1:15:14

know that that's a that's a no -brainer.

1:15:16

You know, that's a definitely He's he's the

1:15:18

best, you know, these friends are Johnny Barton.

1:15:20

Yeah, great guys. Yeah, they just there's very

1:15:22

it's a rare breed It's a it's few

1:15:25

and far between but you know what I

1:15:27

wouldn't have it any other way, you know

1:15:29

So share with us some prison war stories.

1:15:31

I'm sure you got some good ones from

1:15:33

you know that many years in there So

1:15:35

prison war stories, so I get well the

1:15:37

one that sticks out the one that comes

1:15:39

to mind is um I

1:15:42

had a beef with, like

1:15:44

I said, 111 months, you know, I

1:15:46

don't like confrontation. I don't look for

1:15:48

fights or whatnot, but if you will

1:15:50

be tested, you know I mean? Whether

1:15:53

intentionally or just like spontaneously,

1:15:56

you know, there's a lot of hormones,

1:15:58

a lot of, a lot of,

1:16:00

a lot of, yeah, egos and hormones,

1:16:02

like, you know, bouncing around in

1:16:04

there and it's very heavy, as you

1:16:06

know. And I

1:16:08

had a fight with, I

1:16:11

had a beef with a kid from DC. He was a

1:16:13

black kid. You

1:16:15

know, in Boston, when I say that, like,

1:16:17

where I grew up, like, it was white Irish

1:16:19

Catholic, right? With that being said, like,

1:16:21

I'm a city boy, right? I'm a city kid.

1:16:24

If you're from the city, right? Like, even

1:16:26

though I grew up in that environment, right? When

1:16:28

I was on the bus and it was like, you know,

1:16:30

me and a Canadian kid, like, who's a different

1:16:32

type of, you know, he

1:16:34

didn't grow up like I did, like, but he

1:16:36

may have the same complexion. And, you

1:16:38

know, I was only waking on the bus for

1:16:40

what it's worth. There was no, I

1:16:43

was more like wondering, oh, what's it

1:16:45

going to be like this and that? But

1:16:47

as far as like another person, like,

1:16:49

you know, being, being worried or nervous about

1:16:51

another person based on their complexion or something

1:16:53

like that, that's, that

1:16:55

wasn't, it wasn't the

1:16:57

case. That, you know, we had,

1:16:59

we had our own story, you know, we

1:17:01

had, we had me at our own, you

1:17:03

know, our own noise and. I

1:17:06

had a fight with a kid from

1:17:09

DC and We were playing fly football Right,

1:17:11

so they have on Sundays, right? It's

1:17:13

like, you know around Thanksgiving or something like

1:17:15

that, you know We get out of

1:17:17

the blocks and at this time, you know,

1:17:19

they had made us they had switched

1:17:21

it up. So the Boston guys used to

1:17:23

have their own team, you know, oh

1:17:26

three and And then we we would we

1:17:28

would play with like the New York

1:17:30

guys, right? the New York

1:17:32

guys the Philly guys and They

1:17:35

started it. So you could only

1:17:37

play it with your unit, right?

1:17:39

So there's four units in Allenwood

1:17:41

at the time and Stevie's our

1:17:43

quarterback Richie's Richie plays Richie's like

1:17:45

the tight end or something on

1:17:47

the other tight end and I

1:17:49

Remember Stevie, you know Stevie was

1:17:51

the quarterback. He was like Johnny

1:17:53

Utah and fucking point break and

1:17:55

often the the other one that

1:17:57

I can't think of the name,

1:17:59

but it's a funny one a

1:18:01

funny movie with the with the

1:18:03

I think Keanu Reeves or something.

1:18:07

So I remember playing, it was a Sunday and

1:18:09

we're up in the yard. And

1:18:11

I remember they were playing the politics that goes on there,

1:18:13

right? So I'm like the only,

1:18:15

there's a couple of us, right? But it was like,

1:18:17

Steve is the quarterback, right? And he's, he's running the show.

1:18:20

And I'm on the sidelines, right? And, you know,

1:18:22

I'm kind of, you know, quiet for the most

1:18:24

part. You know what I mean? I know,

1:18:26

you know, and just kind of taking everything in

1:18:28

and. I'm 20 probably at

1:18:30

the time probably 24 25. I'm in my prime.

1:18:32

At least I think I am right and

1:18:34

there was an older there was an older dude

1:18:37

buck from my from the Bronx, right and

1:18:39

He was washed up, right this black dude buck

1:18:41

and he was like and he was playing

1:18:43

he wouldn't come out of the game So now

1:18:45

like I'm like I saw I'm like getting

1:18:47

my feelings. I'm like, bro. This is fucking bullshit

1:18:49

I'm out of here, right? So I leave

1:18:51

right I don't say nothing to no one, right?

1:18:53

I'm like pouting and I'm and I'm walking

1:18:56

away and I go to grab my net bag

1:18:58

and there's about There's

1:19:00

about five or six dudes from

1:19:02

DC, right? And they're on the,

1:19:04

they're on the bleachers. And

1:19:06

there's a kid that just hit the compound,

1:19:08

a tall kid, right? A young kid. And

1:19:11

he was sitting on my net bag and

1:19:13

I'm like, excuse me. And he didn't move.

1:19:15

Right. So now I'm already annoyed that they're

1:19:17

not right. So I'm like, excuse me. And

1:19:19

I pulled and I ripped it out. So

1:19:22

now he looks at me, right? Right. And

1:19:24

when he looked at me, I'm like, I'm

1:19:26

like, what's up, bro? And he's like, Now

1:19:28

when I say that, right? Now, I'm not

1:19:30

thinking, right? I'm thinking about how they just

1:19:32

fucking were playing politics. They wouldn't let, you

1:19:35

know, they're playing this dude over me. And,

1:19:37

you know, and

1:19:40

when I pulled it out, I said, what's, you know, he

1:19:42

looked at me like I had 10 heads. I said, what's

1:19:44

up? And he said, he got up

1:19:46

in front of all these doers I had been at

1:19:48

this compound now for like four or five years. I

1:19:51

had seen these, you know, these doers on

1:19:53

the way pile and stuff, right? You know, we

1:19:55

don't sit down to eat together, but like,

1:19:57

They know me, I know them. They know Richie

1:19:59

and Stevie, you know I mean? It's like

1:20:01

a mutual respect, more or less. And

1:20:04

you do your thing, we do

1:20:06

our thing. And these dudes

1:20:08

that I had been on the way pilot that

1:20:10

I had seen for the past four or

1:20:12

five years that walked by and high and by,

1:20:15

at that point when I was by myself and they

1:20:17

showed their true colors and the kid got up

1:20:19

and put on a show and he was trying to

1:20:21

put on a show. and he got up and

1:20:23

he stood up and he started taking his jacket off,

1:20:25

right? Which is a bad move. So

1:20:27

here I am now, right

1:20:30

there, the butterflies, the adrenaline kicks in, right?

1:20:32

Like I said, I don't like confrontation. I don't

1:20:34

want it, right? So I'm trying

1:20:36

to think quick, but it's not quick enough because

1:20:38

I don't want to go to the hole, right?

1:20:41

I'm trying to do my time, you know, smoothly.

1:20:43

But at the same time, like now you

1:20:45

got me, you know, it's fight or flight

1:20:47

and I'm not flying anywhere, right? Like something

1:20:50

like this, we're gonna have like a, a

1:20:52

standoff here, right? And so

1:20:54

I'm thinking, I'm like, all right.

1:20:57

So the kid says, now he thinks, he's not

1:20:59

taking his coat off. He says, yeah, you know, you

1:21:02

know, what's up with all this, what's

1:21:04

up, shit, blah, blah, blah. And

1:21:07

I said, bro, I don't know what this all

1:21:09

is. I came over to get my bag and you

1:21:11

looked at me like I had 10 heads. And

1:21:14

right before that, I had looked at

1:21:16

all the dudes that I had known.

1:21:19

almost like a last -ditch effort to be like, bro,

1:21:21

talk to you, talk to you boy, you know I

1:21:23

mean? Like, like control them, right? And

1:21:25

when I looked at them, right, they showed their true

1:21:28

colors and they all, they all went like, you're on your

1:21:30

own, you know what I mean? And they could have

1:21:32

stepped up and been like, bro, leave it alone, you know?

1:21:34

They didn't, right? So they wanted to see something, right?

1:21:36

So they got to, they got, they go, they want it,

1:21:38

I guess. And the kid says, yeah,

1:21:40

next time, he must have thought I was carping out.

1:21:42

He must have thought I was like, carping a plea

1:21:44

when I was like, you know, explaining,

1:21:46

you know, what I was trying to do

1:21:49

was just like, you know, I was trying to

1:21:51

just defuse the situation, you know. And

1:21:54

when I said that, you know, the ignorance,

1:21:56

he just said like, well, next time keep walking.

1:21:58

So at that point, it was just like,

1:22:00

all right, so then I attacked him, right? So

1:22:02

now all these years, right? I had like

1:22:04

a couple of beats before, but like I said,

1:22:06

you know, that wasn't, I tried,

1:22:08

you know, I would like to try to

1:22:10

avoid them, but when they're there, they're there.

1:22:12

And, you know, sometimes they're unavoidable. And

1:22:14

I took so much aggression out on this fucking poor

1:22:16

kid. I remember I had his

1:22:18

dreadlocks. I was turning them. They were like pulling

1:22:20

out. Like I was pulling out chunks of his

1:22:22

hair and, you know, the hillbillies in Pennsylvania, there

1:22:24

was like, you know, the CEOs, the screws have

1:22:27

like two teeth, one for soup, one for steak,

1:22:29

you know, and they're like, they're racist. These motherfuckers,

1:22:31

right? Like they say Boston's racist. It's like, no,

1:22:33

dude, we don't like ignorance. You know I mean?

1:22:35

Like it doesn't matter if you're white, black, fucking

1:22:37

Spanish or you know what I mean? Where

1:22:39

the. And so

1:22:41

that we get, you know, stereotypically, we get like

1:22:43

a bad rap for that, you know I mean?

1:22:45

I met so many, like, if you're, you know,

1:22:47

real recognizes real, like, you know, that's one thing

1:22:49

that I am glad about, you know, being away

1:22:51

and like, learned about different cultures, like, you know,

1:22:54

it's something that I didn't grow up around, right?

1:22:56

And I was, that was fine. But like, to

1:22:58

experience that and know, like, not

1:23:00

that I didn't know it before, but I

1:23:02

had never been, you know, that's something I

1:23:04

wasn't accustomed to. So to meet people that

1:23:06

like, just good people from

1:23:08

different races, different nationalities, different cultures to

1:23:10

learn about their little mixes with the

1:23:12

food and stuff like that. That's

1:23:16

something that I try to, that I am

1:23:18

grateful for. I try to look back and

1:23:20

stuff. Would you run with the New

1:23:22

England car? Yes, Boston, yeah, 038,

1:23:24

yeah, all the way. Is that small

1:23:26

in Allenwood? Cause I feel like there's

1:23:28

more of them in like Massachusetts, Devons,

1:23:30

Fort Dix. Yeah, well, no, no,

1:23:32

we had a good size. I mean, there

1:23:34

wasn't... It was probably smaller than most places,

1:23:36

but like, now Allen was like, you

1:23:39

know, they're spread out. Now you have, it's a

1:23:41

huge compound, right? You have the pen, you have

1:23:43

the medium, you have the low, you know, and

1:23:45

- Where were you? The medium, I

1:23:47

went from the medium to low when I was

1:23:49

in, and because it goes by point system. So

1:23:51

now this was my first time in prison. So

1:23:54

I'm not going to go straight to

1:23:56

a penitentiary unless I, unless I, you know,

1:23:59

unless it was warranted, right? So

1:24:02

I was going away for, for drugs and a

1:24:04

gun, you know? they gave me 10

1:24:06

years, they smoked me and they made an example

1:24:08

out of me. Like I said, I think that

1:24:10

they, like I was the first one to go

1:24:12

away and when they probably got that call, they

1:24:14

were like, all right, you know, they,

1:24:16

they couldn't, they didn't get me for other stuff, but

1:24:18

they knew exactly what was going on. And so they, they,

1:24:21

they made up for it in the end, you know, like,

1:24:25

you know, I always, I never could have imagined.

1:24:27

I didn't know I was ignorant to it, you know,

1:24:29

and to the law, you know, Where

1:24:31

I thought that if I if I was

1:24:33

to get caught with a gun that I you

1:24:35

know that I had no business even having

1:24:37

you know But I didn't need at that time

1:24:40

at that point right once in a while

1:24:42

and that I'd get like a year and a

1:24:44

day and in the county or something and

1:24:46

so those were Those were consequences I thought out

1:24:48

you know that I could handle I was

1:24:50

willing to face But um, little did I know

1:24:52

it's you know, they hit me with the

1:24:54

five that you know using carry so now you're

1:24:56

getting five for the gun and

1:24:58

I couldn't eat fathom it and

1:25:01

then five for the drug. So yeah,

1:25:03

so at that point, like I

1:25:05

said, I made the big time and

1:25:07

it wasn't all it was cracked

1:25:09

up to be, but it's certainly something

1:25:11

that I look back and I'll

1:25:13

never get that time back. I know

1:25:15

when I came home, I try

1:25:18

to maybe make up for lost time

1:25:20

for a little bit. I realized

1:25:22

that that's not an option and that's

1:25:24

not... That's not reality. I'll never

1:25:26

get that time back. And

1:25:28

now, what do I want to do from that

1:25:30

point? That's a shitty

1:25:33

feeling to think, but at the same time, it

1:25:36

does, it's served me no

1:25:38

purpose. There's nothing good that's

1:25:40

come out of me being

1:25:42

resentful or feeling like I'm

1:25:44

entitled or that, if you've

1:25:46

been through what I've been

1:25:48

through, I put myself in

1:25:50

that position. I cost myself

1:25:52

that time. I

1:25:54

wasn't the only one that suffered. Really, my

1:25:56

family probably suffered worse than me. They

1:26:00

were out here living life.

1:26:02

They were dealing with life

1:26:04

on life's terms and I

1:26:06

was in there just wasting

1:26:08

time. Was it a

1:26:11

struggle to readjust because you

1:26:13

missed some pivotal years, 20s to

1:26:15

Absolutely. So was it a struggle

1:26:17

to readjust socially back into

1:26:20

society? Socially,

1:26:23

I would say maybe like

1:26:25

some, you know, anxiety had,

1:26:27

you know, that had kicked

1:26:30

in, but I always, yeah,

1:26:32

you know, as far as like being

1:26:34

personable and stuff like that. And like

1:26:36

I said, I, it

1:26:39

was either, here's the thing, when

1:26:41

I had come home, right? I'm on

1:26:43

this, the people, I'd, you

1:26:45

know, I'd run into people and now

1:26:47

this person hasn't seen me for X

1:26:49

amount of time. what they

1:26:51

remember me as is the person that they're gonna treat

1:26:53

me as or talk to me as, right? Now I've

1:26:55

grown, but they don't know that. And

1:26:57

I don't even know how to, like, I

1:26:59

don't know what that feels like, looks like

1:27:01

or anything. I don't know how it's gonna

1:27:04

apply to life in general and what it's

1:27:06

gonna look like. So when they're talking, as

1:27:08

much as I'm cringing like, dude, this isn't,

1:27:10

I don't wanna hear that nonsense, right? You're

1:27:12

talking to me like I'm fucking 20, you

1:27:14

know, 20, 21, a teenager. And

1:27:17

you, it's like, it's

1:27:19

like, I don't need your

1:27:21

validation. You know what I mean? I don't need, I

1:27:23

don't need to, you know, I

1:27:26

had grown in that way and, but I, at

1:27:28

the time, I don't think I was ready to

1:27:30

kind of step outside of myself. So I had

1:27:32

to do some more, you know, in that department,

1:27:34

I had to grow, you know, grow more. And

1:27:36

like with that, like I said, pain is a

1:27:39

great motivator. I had to bang my head some

1:27:41

more times. I had to realize that like, you

1:27:43

know, what's my agenda? What's my motive?

1:27:45

I never looked at those things. So

1:27:48

like, If I'm uncomfortable in the past,

1:27:50

what I do is like, without even

1:27:52

realizing it, right? With, it

1:27:55

does the intent is irrelevant. If

1:27:58

God forbid Joe's uncomfortable, right? Like, what can

1:28:00

I do? Like, don't, you need to make

1:28:02

me comfortable. I'm not gonna say it all

1:28:04

out, but like, what can I do to,

1:28:06

you know, so I'm comfortable. Fuck you, right?

1:28:08

Not that I'm thinking, fuck you, but I

1:28:10

can't, I'm so uncomfortable that I can't think

1:28:12

of anyone but me. And,

1:28:16

So when I came home as far as that goes, yeah,

1:28:18

there was, there was an adjustment. The

1:28:20

biggest adjustment was, was

1:28:23

showing up for

1:28:25

everyday life work. I

1:28:28

thought that, you

1:28:30

know, I thought I was just

1:28:32

gonna grab a bag of money for the rest of my

1:28:34

life. I did. I still have these

1:28:36

fucking thoughts, right? I

1:28:40

still think like, man, like, you know, I

1:28:42

thought it was easy, come easy, go. And

1:28:44

I thought that it'd always be like that.

1:28:46

And it proved true for a short period

1:28:48

of time. But

1:28:51

as far as, you know, like

1:28:53

I talked about my dad, the firefighter,

1:28:55

and it's like, who wants to, it

1:28:58

didn't serve me purpose. It's

1:29:01

actually something that I still struggle

1:29:03

with where I never, the

1:29:05

work ethic that, you know, my

1:29:07

father showed me through action

1:29:09

stuff. But

1:29:11

I wasn't I wanted easy fast. I

1:29:13

wanted you know, I Wanted everything

1:29:15

without doing any work, right? I want

1:29:17

to I want to get in

1:29:19

shape without going to the gym, right?

1:29:21

I want to I want these

1:29:24

things. I don't want to earn them

1:29:26

and In turn what what it's

1:29:28

cost me is like a lot of

1:29:30

wasted time a lot of you

1:29:32

know It's been it's That's the stuff

1:29:34

that really, that I think about

1:29:36

and like why I'm trying to do

1:29:38

things differently and why I try

1:29:41

to like just, you know, focus in

1:29:43

the present and like these little

1:29:45

cliches, these little things that may seem

1:29:47

sound corny or whatnot. When I

1:29:49

think of the word corny, I check

1:29:51

myself now because I'm like, Joe,

1:29:53

your thinking was fucking ridiculous. Your thinking

1:29:56

was warped. Your thinking was twisted,

1:29:58

right? And when, and I

1:30:00

have to remind myself that, you

1:30:02

know, the fact that I'm able

1:30:04

to do it and acknowledge it

1:30:06

is great. But now I got

1:30:08

to put it into action. And

1:30:10

the work ethic, just

1:30:12

feeling like, all right, scheming,

1:30:15

scamming, what's the next move?

1:30:17

What's the next score? Because

1:30:19

that right there, when I'm

1:30:21

thinking like that, it doesn't

1:30:23

feel good anymore, right? Because

1:30:25

I know the truth. And

1:30:28

if I am getting, if the

1:30:30

endorphins are kicking in, if I'm

1:30:32

getting high off that and that

1:30:34

feeling and that thinking, I got

1:30:36

problems. You know I mean? That

1:30:38

entitlements fucking is coming, you

1:30:41

know? And as we

1:30:43

both know, it doesn't get less. They're

1:30:45

not gonna give me less than 111 months. Next

1:30:47

time I go, it's gonna get worse, you know what

1:30:50

I mean? And so it really

1:30:52

doesn't matter whether Joe comes from a good

1:30:54

family, whether Joe thinks that, you know, I'm

1:30:56

a good guy at heart, you know what

1:30:58

I mean? That

1:31:00

right there is something that I have to...

1:31:02

Constantly remind myself because and it's scary to

1:31:04

think because you know, they'll go off if

1:31:06

me and you go in front of the

1:31:08

judge If you went in front of the

1:31:10

judge today, they're not thinking of being with

1:31:13

the podcast They're not thinking of being helping

1:31:15

people, you know spreading the message like showing

1:31:17

like that like, you know reform showing that

1:31:19

you know recovering from like, you know adversity

1:31:21

and like bouncing back in like all these

1:31:23

things that are like Pivotal and like that

1:31:25

like actually define who you are right and

1:31:27

you've always been that but like it's it's

1:31:30

it just builds that character and like, you know, maybe

1:31:32

it's something that you need to realize and you

1:31:34

need to believe in you, right? Cause other people see

1:31:36

it, right? When you're doing your

1:31:38

thing and if you went in front of a

1:31:40

judge, that judge is going to look at that paper

1:31:42

and they're going to, and you're going to be

1:31:44

the person that like did that fed time. You're going

1:31:46

to be the person that for that crime and