0:08

I'm Claire Fallon and I'm

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0:23

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0:28

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0:33

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0:37

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0:40

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0:42

can break down every juicy

0:44

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0:47

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0:49

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0:51

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at mintmobile.com. daters.

8:49

Which is actually really unusual for

8:51

love is blind. Yeah, there's usually...

8:53

a more diverse main cast that

8:56

ends up emerging. There's one love

8:58

triangle in which all of the

9:00

love interests are black, but it's

9:02

a lot of white people, a

9:04

lot of like blonde women who

9:06

went to Catholic school. So relatedly,

9:08

it's very Catholic. There are so

9:10

many ex-Catholic school kids on this

9:12

show. Yeah, everyone is either like

9:14

reacting to the fact that they

9:17

have drifted. from their Catholicism or

9:19

trying to like integrate their current

9:21

Catholicism into their daily lives. There's,

9:23

yeah, gonna be a lot for

9:25

you to comment on Claire. Yeah,

9:27

I really, I, at first I

9:29

was like, oh, another Labs Catholic,

9:31

who went to Catholic school just

9:33

like me. And then by the

9:35

end, I was like, oh, another.

9:38

They're all Labs Catholics from the

9:40

Midwest, just like you, Claire. I

9:42

guess this is what dating would

9:44

have been like if I had

9:46

stayed. It's pretty bleak. Two of

9:48

them actually have a whole conversation

9:50

about how the exorcist is too

9:52

scary to because exorcism is real.

9:54

and the woman saw a video

9:56

in Catholic school of a real

9:59

priest talking about a real exorcism

10:01

with his real words and they

10:03

both believe every word of it

10:05

and are like yes you saw

10:07

the video of the priest talking

10:09

about exorcism therefore exorcism is real

10:11

don't mess with demons you will

10:13

get haunted as we know Catholic

10:15

priests notorious truth tellers very reliable

10:17

never do anything Deceptive. It is

10:20

just funny because I remember going

10:22

to Catholic school and I was

10:24

quite an observant Catholic at the

10:26

time as we've discussed. I believed

10:28

in the major doctrines, including some

10:30

that I now find really horrifying.

10:32

But this kind of stuff, like

10:34

I guess I always assumed that

10:36

everyone thought it was ludicrous, like

10:38

when we would learn about something

10:41

like exorcism, I was like, but

10:43

we don't believe any of that,

10:45

that's crazy. And it turns out

10:47

a lot of people, even people

10:49

who do not stay Catholic, really,

10:51

just believe that you will get

10:53

possessed by devils and that an

10:55

exorcist priest will have to come

10:57

and see. I feel like for

10:59

some of them, they're just like,

11:02

it seems like a fun thing

11:04

to buy into. Why not believe

11:06

in it? You know what? There's

11:08

so much horror in this world.

11:10

Being possessed by demons seems a

11:12

lot less scary than a lot

11:14

of what's going on right now.

11:16

I would take it. That is

11:18

true. Another thing I noticed about

11:20

this season is that it is

11:23

extremely repetitive and it's not just

11:25

Catholic school stuff. I was getting

11:27

deja vu. I was disoriented. I

11:29

was like, didn't I already watch

11:31

this? That's what I was gonna

11:33

say. I was very disoriented and

11:35

I got to episode four and

11:37

I was like, how could there

11:39

possibly be two more episodes in

11:42

this same setting? Like what? What's

11:44

happening? What time is it? Where

11:46

am I? Is this the floor

11:48

of the ceiling? Like, yeah, I

11:50

was like, wait, they seem to

11:52

be having the same conversation. know

11:54

that's different people different people keep

11:56

having the same conversation that happens

11:58

but why are they showing all

12:00

of them to us right that's

12:03

a choice I don't I don't

12:05

blame the dators to be clear

12:07

like you've got a lot of

12:09

time you've got to cover some

12:11

ground you've got to talk about

12:13

your middle names and your dad's

12:15

names and like where you went

12:17

to school I get it tell

12:19

their number one guys that they

12:21

have the same names as their

12:24

dads but it's fine because they

12:26

love their dads and I'm like

12:28

that's a fine conversation conversation to

12:30

see one time I don't need

12:32

to see it twice. That's not

12:34

interesting. And I know there's a

12:36

lot of stuff you're leaving on

12:38

the cutting room for. Right. And

12:40

maybe they want to pull out

12:42

themes, but we don't need themes

12:45

in the filler, you know? Right.

12:47

It was a little too much.

12:49

Two women talk about how sometimes

12:51

they were sexy Halloween costumes and

12:53

sometimes they were cute, silly Halloween

12:55

costumes. That is. I've heard about

12:57

specific Halloween costumes that like four

12:59

of the women have worn. born

13:01

some sexy Halloween costumes and some

13:03

silly ones. It's also like the

13:06

right answer in this context, right?

13:08

I'm sexy, but I'm also funny.

13:10

I'm the perfect wife. Like you'll

13:12

laugh with me, you'll be like,

13:14

ooh, I want to tear off

13:16

her Gwen Stefani costume. What else

13:18

are you going to say? I

13:20

always look hideous. There are also

13:22

multiple conversations about getting matching tattoos.

13:24

or how they're faded to be

13:27

together because they like the same

13:29

very popular movie. We got to

13:31

put a pin in that one

13:33

because I have a lot of

13:35

thoughts. about one instance of that.

13:37

There's also one where the two

13:39

of them are like, we both

13:41

watched the sound of music growing

13:43

up? Oh, you like know it

13:45

really well? I was like, everyone

13:48

watched the sound of music growing

13:50

up. Yeah, they're like, my grandma

13:52

loved it. And it's like, yeah,

13:54

there were like four movies back

13:56

then. Of course she loved the

13:58

song. Which is gossip and? I

14:00

think that this is just happening

14:02

more and more as like

14:04

people familiarize themselves

14:06

with the flow of this show.

14:09

So there's a lot more like

14:11

constant updates and sightings of like

14:13

who is filming and what

14:15

city. So unsurprisingly, people started

14:18

coming out of the woodwork

14:20

to say that some of

14:22

these people, mostly dudes,

14:24

but some women too, kind of suck.

14:27

And I, you know, do want to

14:29

caution. everyone that most

14:31

tick talks you see, especially

14:34

ones that are very vague,

14:36

should definitely be taken

14:38

with a grain of salt. And

14:40

I would, that's why I tend

14:42

to look at creators like

14:45

Story Time with Ricky and

14:47

Reality Ashley, who actually do

14:50

the due diligence of getting

14:52

receipts for the gossip that

14:54

they report on. So I

14:57

would look to them before

14:59

you start amplifying anything. This

15:01

is a great way to go kind

15:03

of viral. Yes. To say like I have

15:05

dirt on a love is blind person

15:07

and people have done that before to

15:10

kind of troll, get a reaction. And

15:12

so you do have to be kind

15:14

of careful. I know at least one

15:17

of the people that I saw posting

15:19

about this seem to have like a

15:21

pretty active Tiktak like career, like

15:23

was clearly sort of has been trying

15:26

to make it as a Tiktak creator

15:28

for a while. So like you do

15:30

kind of have to be a little

15:33

bit careful. That doesn't mean that they

15:35

aren't telling the truth even if they do

15:37

have ulterior motives and want attention. They can

15:39

still be telling the truth. Yes, everyone might

15:41

be telling the truth but you know we

15:43

want to be careful when amplifying those rumors

15:45

especially on like a larger scale. A lot

15:47

of them are not identical like at least

15:50

in some cases they're dropping identifying info where

15:52

we can definitely tell who they're talking about

15:54

in other cases they're just being like oh

15:56

I have some stories about these guys. Yeah

15:58

and then someone will follow-up. I was listening

16:00

to reality Ashley and story time

16:03

with Ricky's latest podcast where they

16:05

were doing a little like mini

16:07

tea drop and they were saying

16:09

like some of these videos someone

16:12

was like oh I like me

16:14

realizing I've you know chatted or

16:16

like gone on dates with several

16:19

of these guys and then it's

16:21

like oh she had a great

16:23

experience with one of them and

16:25

a bad experience with another one

16:28

and so it's really only dirt

16:30

about one guy right and you're

16:32

like right I mean also I

16:34

would like to be clear I

16:37

would love to to hear people's

16:39

like great experiences with some of

16:41

the cast members we love positive

16:44

gossip more people should come forward

16:46

to talk up the guys who

16:48

go on these shows it also

16:50

seems like there were two different

16:53

women who posted about women cast

16:55

members and called them out as

16:57

like bad bosses so people were

16:59

assuming oh you're talking about PTSD

17:02

you got from a man and

17:04

they're like no actually I just

17:06

had a bad boss and the

17:08

girl boss reckoning has come to

17:11

dating reality yeah yeah one of

17:13

those creators I think had identified

17:15

one of the women and it

17:18

was someone who like we barely

17:20

see show again it was one

17:22

of those situations where she gave

17:24

identifying information and it was obvious

17:27

who she was talking about. The

17:29

other one I don't know if

17:31

they were identifiable but there is

17:33

one video that seems to have

17:36

broken through from internet land actually

17:38

on to the show itself which

17:40

which I think is a first

17:43

that we've seen you know we've

17:45

seen them address a couple of

17:47

times things that come out during

17:49

the show airing during the reunion

17:52

we have yet to see something

17:54

like a teadrop from Tiktok make

17:56

it on to the show itself

17:58

while they're filming. So this is

18:01

a first. A pretty major Tiktok

18:03

creator her handle is hope you

18:05

find your dad on Tiktok. She

18:08

mostly covers politics actually. She posted

18:10

two videos. on March 2nd, 2024.

18:12

And in one of them, she

18:14

is crying, talking about a man

18:17

who quote, treats women terribly and

18:19

manipulates and lies all the time.

18:21

She also suggests that this man

18:23

went on television not to get

18:26

married, but just for exposure. She

18:28

says he's a terrible person. She

18:30

does not name the man, nor

18:33

does she share any like very

18:35

specific details about what happened between

18:37

the two of them. But she

18:39

does say that she met him.

18:42

on the University of Minnesota campus

18:44

and that she was like at

18:46

least a few years younger than

18:48

him. Commenters have since deduced from

18:51

the clues that she did drop.

18:53

I think one of the videos

18:55

talked about him being a former

18:58

baseball player that the man she

19:00

is talking about is Ben, who

19:02

does become a major character on

19:04

this season. And what's interesting is

19:07

he's not the only university of

19:09

Minnesota baseball player who is a

19:11

major character on the show, but

19:13

she also mentioned that he was

19:16

a star, expected to go pro,

19:18

and then instead got into making

19:20

YouTube videos and tried to make

19:23

a YouTube career happen. And these

19:25

pieces, like that's a lot of

19:27

information. Did you see what story

19:29

time? Apparently, Ben, allegedly, Ben, used

19:32

to, after he was intimate with

19:34

a woman, leave her some of

19:36

his like self-printed YouTube business cards.

19:38

Like, here's my channel, like, next

19:41

to the bed. And you're a

19:43

bunch of women. If you're getting

19:45

around enough, you can really organically

19:48

grow your audience that way. Well,

19:50

I think that was his hope.

19:52

And now all these women have

19:54

them, like a little souvenir. So

19:57

they sent photos to Ashley and

19:59

Ricky, which is just absolutely hilarious.

20:01

So yeah, so this one, despite.

20:03

Lacking any like really concrete evidence

20:06

or details even has gathered a

20:08

lot of buzz around it and

20:10

like other people and comments being

20:12

like oh I've also heard so

20:15

many stories like again nothing really

20:17

tangible but because of that it

20:19

became like a bigger conversation and

20:22

it seems like because she posted

20:24

this during filming it got back

20:26

to the woman that he met

20:28

on the show. during filming and

20:31

so the season eight trailer shows

20:33

one of the this woman Sarah

20:35

confronting him and she says there's

20:37

this girl on tic-talk she's crying

20:40

I need you to tell me

20:42

everything so that is going to

20:44

be fascinating I think to watch

20:47

I agree apparently Ben has already

20:49

made his Instagram comments private even

20:51

before the season started so buckle

20:53

up buddy This is going to

20:56

be, it's going to be interesting.

20:58

I am nervous, like we're taping

21:00

this still like a full week

21:02

before the show comes out and

21:05

I'm like, how much more gossip

21:07

and tea. Maybe, maybe we'll be

21:09

out of date. Again, we're telling

21:12

you now, we are situated ourselves.

21:14

If there's something that comes out,

21:16

we will address it next week

21:18

and that's all we can too.

21:21

All right, so. Enough throat clearing

21:23

enough background. We got to get

21:25

into the pods But first we're

21:27

going to take a quick break

21:30

We'll be right back to talk

21:32

all about everything we learn in

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26:13

get into the pods for

26:15

all six episodes. Oh my

26:17

goodness, it's so much time

26:20

in the pods just to...

26:22

Have you understand how crazy this

26:24

is usually we spend about four

26:26

episodes in the pods and if

26:29

the first drop is six episodes

26:31

We get at least an episode

26:33

and a half of the couples

26:36

on their like happy couple vacations

26:38

Maybe having a mixer among the

26:40

engaged couples We don't make it

26:42

out we barely make it out of

26:44

the hotel that they're staying at

26:47

at night. Yeah That's why

26:49

the vibe is sort

26:51

of cask of a

26:53

Bontalado. It's like I'm

26:55

I'm bricked in in

26:57

a maze. I can't

27:00

get out. We don't

27:02

see sunlight for more

27:04

than like 30 seconds.

27:06

Exactly. So we are

27:08

going to go like

27:10

love triangle or couple or

27:12

love square. So let's start

27:14

with Molly, David, and Lauren.

27:17

I think we both have

27:19

a lot to say about

27:21

David. David, Dave, I guess he

27:24

goes by Dave. He goes by both.

27:26

David, Dave is 33. He's in medical

27:29

device sales and he is

27:31

the guy who just nags

27:33

women constantly. Yeah, nagging women

27:36

is his brand. It's his

27:38

form of humor. Nothing's funnier

27:40

than. making women feel just a

27:42

little bit insecure and like they

27:44

want to prove that they're chill

27:47

and you can win them over. He's

27:49

also the guy who is there to

27:51

work out his shit on women. So

27:53

we're starting real strong with Dave. So he

27:55

works in medical aesthetics. It

27:57

sounds like his medical device.

27:59

sales career revolves around the kind

28:02

of medical devices where he's just

28:04

around like Botox and filler treatments

28:06

and he expects women to look

28:08

like he has had all of

28:10

those procedures and he's like, gosh,

28:12

maybe that isn't the healthiest thing

28:14

for me and maybe I should

28:16

try to detox from that by

28:18

trying to fall in love with

28:20

a woman who maybe doesn't have

28:22

so much Botox and filler. I

28:24

think that's gonna go really well

28:27

for me. And he tells one

28:29

woman he's dating that, you know,

28:31

pursuing this kind of specific look

28:33

hasn't worked out for him. And

28:35

he's like, there's many ways to

28:37

be a beautiful woman. As long

28:39

as you're beautiful, I guess. I

28:41

would not want to be the

28:43

woman who Dave dates. after having

28:45

this like revelation. What is wild

28:47

is that he says this to

28:49

the woman that ends up getting

28:51

engaged to him? Like she, I

28:54

will, I like this woman. She

28:56

absorbs so many red flags. Yes.

28:58

I do think there's a thing

29:00

that happens sometimes with women where

29:02

you're like, okay, I actually expect

29:04

that there's a lot of men

29:06

who have these thoughts or this

29:08

kind of history. And so there's

29:10

almost like... Oh well at least

29:12

you said it. You said it

29:14

and you want to do better

29:16

so like you get a gold

29:18

star and what it can actually

29:20

mean is that like he's in

29:23

the middle of deconstructing that and

29:25

like you are going to be

29:27

the tool for that deconstruction. Yeah

29:29

or maybe he knows it's a

29:31

bad idea and yet he will

29:33

never deconstruct it. Right right he's

29:35

like I wish to not want

29:37

this but that's still what I'm

29:39

attracted to. It's like it. I

29:41

would have been very worried and

29:43

yet he ends up right in

29:45

the center of a love triangle

29:47

between two women who seem lovely.

29:50

Yeah. He opens every date with

29:52

what's wrong with you. Haha. Because

29:54

why are they single? Why would

29:56

a woman be dating unless something

29:58

was wrong with her? should be

30:00

married already. And also, I noticed

30:02

with one woman that he actually

30:04

likes immediately, he catches himself halfway

30:06

through saying what and asks her

30:08

why she's there instead. What brought

30:10

you here? He's like, oh, so

30:12

let me ask, what, why are

30:14

you here? I was like, you

30:17

are gonna say, what's wrong with

30:19

you again, weren't you Dave? He

30:21

also one woman says that she's

30:23

30 and he's like, so you're

30:25

not attractive. Oh, you know what,

30:27

that's actually why? He opens with

30:29

that. Yeah. And then he's like,

30:31

wow, I've been such a dick

30:33

right up front, she's gonna leave.

30:35

Because she says, should I walk

30:37

out? And this is the woman

30:39

he ends up engaged to. So,

30:41

Bar is truly in hell for

30:44

man. He openly also talks about

30:46

how he's treated women really poorly

30:48

in the past. And again, the

30:50

women are just like. Thanks for

30:52

being so honest about how you

30:54

are not a safe person for

30:56

women to be around. See, I

30:58

feel like this happened with, was

31:00

it Stephen and Monica last season,

31:02

where it's like, he was like,

31:04

yeah, I cheated on like multiple

31:06

exes, but I'm so sad about

31:08

it. And Monica's just like, wow,

31:10

that's like so brave of you

31:13

to own that. And then I'm

31:15

sure this won't come back around

31:17

on me in a pleasant way.

31:19

Right. enjoyed that Dave thinks he

31:21

just gets it because he has

31:23

an older sister. So like he

31:25

gets what women need. But then

31:27

we learn he has the kind

31:29

of older sister who didn't want

31:31

him to sign up for love

31:33

is blind because she quote doesn't

31:35

think any of those girls are

31:37

good enough for you. So what

31:40

I'm hearing is his sister is

31:42

like my brother is incredible. He's

31:44

perfect. No one will be good

31:46

enough for him. I have two

31:48

amazing brothers. It wasn't that hard

31:50

to find two women who are

31:52

good enough for them. There are

31:54

a lot of amazing women out

31:56

there. That's the thing. Like, come

31:58

on. I think very highly of

32:00

my brothers. You do. have to

32:02

work too hard to ensure that

32:04

they ended up with great women

32:07

and they did. So like what

32:09

where does she get off? Like

32:11

what is her problem? She thinks

32:13

that she's the only woman who's

32:15

like good enough to be around

32:17

her brother and this is the

32:19

person that he's learned about women

32:21

from. So hmm red flag for

32:23

me. I have concerns. I have

32:25

a lot of concerns about Dave.

32:27

It's just a vibes thing. I

32:29

have a bad fashion feeling about

32:31

Dave as well because he is

32:34

wearing no-show socks socks with his

32:36

suede Chelsea boots. I need menswear

32:38

guy to just devastate. Just devastate

32:40

Dave. I don't even care if

32:42

this is an official fashion don't.

32:44

It just so obviously looks bad

32:46

to have your pants ride up

32:48

and there's just your shin in

32:50

between your suede boot and your

32:52

pants. It's not good. It's not

32:54

good. Sox are socks are in.

32:56

Sox are fashionable. Why were so

32:58

many people wearing no-show socks this

33:01

season? This guy's 33. Okay, I

33:03

guess he's a little younger than

33:05

us. You got to hear the

33:07

good news about socks. We're allowed

33:09

to have them covering our ankles

33:11

again. He also in a personal

33:13

red flag says that he can

33:15

read but not comprehend what he

33:17

reads, which is reading. He's no,

33:19

he's like, I can individually understand

33:21

what each, like say each word.

33:23

He can sound out words. Right.

33:25

Am I like? paying attention to

33:27

their meaning? No. He once got

33:30

a 6% on an English test?

33:32

In that case, to be fair,

33:34

he says he didn't even try

33:36

to read the book. Which, look,

33:38

we're not like here to judge

33:40

people based on their grades in

33:42

high school. But this just doesn't

33:44

sound like a man who's trying.

33:46

Dave is the person who I

33:48

have like by far the longest

33:50

list of just random things that

33:52

annoyed me about him. Before we

33:54

started, we were like, Dave is

33:57

so annoying to us, but also...

34:00

There aren't like sex criminal rumors about

34:02

him. So that we know of that

34:04

we know of hey He might be

34:06

the best guy on the season who

34:09

will see we'll see how this all

34:11

you know So the people he ends

34:13

up in a love triangle with are

34:16

Lauren 31 and educational sales like rep.

34:18

She is a former teacher and Lauren

34:20

is the woman that he ends up

34:23

with she seems almost like I think

34:25

too nice accommodating in certain ways like

34:27

she really wants to give him another

34:30

chance whenever he says something rude to

34:32

her and she seems like someone that

34:34

I think we would mostly like she

34:37

has a fuck the patriarchy tattoo on

34:39

her wrist I know relatable yeah am

34:41

I can't believe you don't have the

34:43

same one I know I have something

34:46

similar so we can bond yeah almost

34:48

matching and Then there's Molly who is

34:50

30, an executive assistant, and also a

34:53

dancer. And Dave seems like fixate on

34:55

this because at one point he's like,

34:57

what would your schedule be like? Just

35:00

dancing, right? And she's like, no, I

35:02

have a job. Well, Dave loves when

35:04

girls have their own hobbies, Claire. He

35:07

loves that. It's so cute. Well, she's

35:09

not like you're busy. When a girl

35:11

has a hobby. He doesn't want her

35:13

to be like, come home and make

35:16

dinner with me tonight. She needs to

35:18

like have something going on. She could

35:20

just have a little hobby for herself.

35:23

So cute. We know that he loves

35:25

dancers. He's like, she's my usual type.

35:27

I don't know about like a teacher.

35:30

teachers are nerdy and that is not

35:32

my usual I was like this is

35:34

insane like you think all teachers look

35:37

the same like what are you talking

35:39

about they're all wearing the little round

35:41

glasses and they have their hair and

35:44

like a mousey bun yeah so bizarre

35:46

also just huge red flag for me

35:48

I'm like if you're thinking about this

35:50

like I'm very concerned that you're on

35:53

this show yeah Molly is easy for

35:55

me to keep track of though because

35:57

she is a redhead with Bangs. So

36:00

it did not take me long to

36:02

remember who she is. There's lots of

36:04

like blonde and bronze hair in this

36:06

season. And at first it was hard for

36:09

me to keep track of people. And then

36:11

the men all look sort of like thumbs

36:13

with hair, which is totally valid, but

36:15

it was hard for me to

36:17

tell them apart right up until

36:19

the bitter end. That's really fair.

36:21

So they end up in this

36:23

classic love as blind love triangle,

36:25

where Molly is like the fun

36:27

one and Lauren is the deep

36:29

one. who provides like a common

36:31

welcoming space for him to share

36:34

his like really vulnerable thoughts and

36:36

feelings. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel

36:38

like we've seen this where

36:40

it's always like he's gonna

36:42

pick Lauren and then he's

36:44

gonna be like, she's like not

36:46

fun and she's not like

36:49

sexy enough and like, uh, then

36:51

like he's not gonna end up

36:53

with her. They end up with often

36:55

like two people that they wish

36:57

were one person and it's like,

36:59

sorry, they're not, they're not one

37:01

person. You can't combine women. It's

37:03

not how that works. If only.

37:05

And with Lauren, they have this

37:07

kind of steady relationship and with Molly,

37:09

he's like, we just keep things light

37:12

and fun, like we get along so

37:14

well, we laugh. She has a very

37:16

like similar sense of humor to him,

37:19

so she's not offended when he nags

37:21

her all the time. And he

37:23

sees her as super non-judgmental. So

37:25

he shares with her that he

37:27

cheated on his last girlfriend and

37:29

that's my relationship ended. And she

37:31

is like even more than Monica.

37:33

She's like so chill with this.

37:36

She's not even like, well, if

37:38

you really understand that it was

37:40

bad, then you're learning. She's like, okay,

37:42

we all have a past. Whatever. And

37:44

he's like, don't worry, if I'm

37:47

married, I will no longer entertain

37:49

women who come up to me

37:51

in Vegas. He's so generous. Very

37:53

specific. He's constantly being approached in

37:56

Vegas by women. But once he's

37:58

married, that will end. They do, however,

38:00

get a little bit deep when they

38:03

bond over their shared libertarianism. That was,

38:05

like, so, like, of course. I know.

38:07

Like, you know, like, it's so, why

38:09

do we have to be so divided?

38:12

Why can't we just, like, understand each

38:14

other's positions? For example, like, I have

38:16

positions, some of them are more conservative,

38:19

and some of them are more liberal.

38:21

I love keeping all my money and

38:23

spending it on cool stuff for myself.

38:25

I hate it when women can't get

38:28

abortions, you know, which I'm like, I

38:30

do agree with half of that, but

38:32

it kind of seems like you don't

38:34

understand how all this stuff pieces together

38:37

into policy. No, no, no, no. He's

38:39

like a classic like, hey, I'm just

38:41

like fiscally conservative, socially liberal, like, what's

38:44

the problem? I was like at least

38:46

relieved to hear him be like. I

38:48

do want women to have access to

38:50

abortions and also if my child came

38:53

out to me, because Molly asks, like,

38:55

if your kid told you that they

38:57

were LGBTQ, how would you feel? And

39:00

he gives a good answer. He says,

39:02

like, I would just be happy that

39:04

my child felt comfortable enough. to like

39:06

share who they are with me. And

39:09

I was like, okay, Dave, great, great.

39:11

And then he's like, I don't want

39:13

to give even one red cent of

39:15

my hard-earned money that I pulled myself

39:18

up from my bootstraps. I think I'm

39:20

getting a little bit, like, I think

39:22

I'm getting a little bitch eating crackers

39:25

about Dave because I feel like my

39:27

response to his answer was like, he

39:29

seemed, he was very like, I can't

39:31

believe they would be so brave as

39:34

to tell me that they're not brave

39:36

as to tell me that they're not

39:38

straight. I do think what

39:40

he was trying to say is

39:42

that we, yeah, I thought it

39:45

came from a good place. And

39:47

honestly, he might be right about

39:49

the direction the country is headed

39:51

in and how much courage is

39:53

going to really be required, which

39:55

is dark. The difference between the

39:57

two relationships I think can be

39:59

summed up in. one very telling

40:01

a bit of symmetry. There's an

40:03

episode where Dave tells Molly that

40:05

his right testicle is throbbing. And

40:07

then later in a conversation with

40:09

Lauren, he's like, my heart is

40:11

throbbing with emotion. We all know

40:14

on this show, the heart tends

40:16

to trump the testicle. Yeah, so

40:18

beautiful. So beautiful. And he does

40:20

the thing where he gives both

40:22

of them a lot of validation

40:24

and they end up a little

40:26

bit confused. Like he tells Lauren

40:28

he wants to cancel his next

40:30

date one evening and then instead

40:32

he goes to the date with

40:34

Molly of course and has basically

40:36

the same conversation about tattoos that

40:38

Lauren brought up with him. So

40:40

like he's letting those relationships like

40:42

bleed into each other a little

40:45

bit. He's confused. Yeah, it's almost

40:47

like they're two sides of the

40:49

same girlfriend, the same perfect girlfriend

40:51

that he is wants to create.

40:53

He's like but who's hotter. But

40:55

who's hotter. It's so hard to

40:57

tell. One of them got a

40:59

tattoo while she was on a

41:01

girl's trip and one of them

41:03

is a dancer. But things ultimately

41:05

get pretty tense on the women's

41:07

side of the pods because Lauren

41:09

is playing her cards close to

41:11

the vest. She's not really telling

41:14

anyone who her number one is.

41:16

But Molly is talking a lot

41:18

about who she's stating. She's a

41:20

much more like extroverted person. She's

41:22

very extroverted and it does seem

41:24

like... she thought she knew who

41:26

Dave's other connection was and she

41:28

didn't think that it was Lauren

41:30

so she is not being cautious

41:32

around Lauren and Lauren realizes obviously

41:34

that she and Molly have the

41:36

same number one. Well what ultimately

41:38

happens is that Molly thinks Laura

41:40

knows. Lauren's like, oh, I actually

41:42

don't know. Molly whispers to her,

41:45

it's Dave. And while Lauren is

41:47

looking sick to her stomach, Molly,

41:49

who's very like giddy about the

41:51

day she just had jokes, like,

41:53

I have a husband. And that

41:55

really wigs Lauren. out because she

41:57

just found out that her number

41:59

one has another relationship that this

42:01

woman feels really confident about. And

42:03

she didn't realize that was happening.

42:05

And she's like, is Molly doing

42:07

this like kind of on purpose?

42:09

Like is she talking up how

42:11

good her connection is with Dave

42:13

to like mark her territory and

42:16

kind of warn me off? Is

42:18

she just clueless? Like I don't

42:20

really know? Like she's questioning everything.

42:22

And she starts like distance herself

42:24

from Molly. in the women's quarters.

42:26

And then Molly comes back after

42:28

a really good date with Dave

42:30

and is like, my number one

42:32

just told me I was his

42:34

number one. And Lauren hears this

42:36

and is like, what? What? She's

42:38

like, well, I don't even know

42:40

if that's, I don't really believe

42:42

that's true. But if it is

42:45

true, then like, Dave is misleading

42:47

me or like manipulating me because

42:49

he seems really all in with

42:51

me. So he. couldn't be telling

42:53

someone else that she's his number

42:55

one and saying what he's been

42:57

saying to me. But ultimately, this

42:59

ends up kind of like pushing

43:01

Dave and Lauren together. So if

43:03

Molly did do it in order

43:05

to mark her territory, it backfired.

43:07

And I don't think she did.

43:09

I don't either. I think she's

43:11

just someone who Lauren is much

43:13

more like controlled. Yeah, and like

43:16

I think it can be hard

43:18

to look at someone who has

43:20

much more. open about things and

43:22

not think, well, they're choosing to

43:24

do this. That just probably feels

43:26

much more natural for them to

43:28

talk about everything they're feeling. Yeah,

43:30

I really didn't get the sense,

43:32

especially because of what we see

43:34

once Dave does make a decision

43:36

from Molly. Like she's so upset

43:38

at the thought later on that

43:40

she might have unintentionally offended Lauren

43:42

that. Yeah, she just has no

43:44

idea. I could definitely, I mean.

43:47

we both podcast for a living

43:49

and i say all kinds of

43:51

stuff i i'm sure i've said

43:53

stuff without even really thinking about

43:55

it right is like people. And

43:57

so I see where Molly is

43:59

coming from, but Lauren is very

44:01

skeptical. And Lauren ends up like

44:03

confronting Dave about what she heard.

44:05

She's like, is it true that

44:07

you said that? And if you

44:09

did, like, why would you say

44:11

that? And also say these things

44:13

to me. And Dave seems really

44:16

put upon and says, this is

44:18

what I didn't want to happen

44:20

to get caught up in the

44:22

girl drama. It's so condescending and

44:24

it shows like a certain amount

44:26

of dismissiveness towards the feelings of

44:28

the women that he supposedly respects

44:30

enough to want to marry. Like,

44:32

oh, keep me out of this

44:34

like silly frivolous bullshit. No, this

44:36

is about you convincing women that

44:38

you like them the best. So

44:40

maybe what's happening here is not

44:42

girl drama. It's you're the drama.

44:44

Dave. Are you the drama? Yes.

44:47

And Lauren is like, it's not

44:49

girl drama. It's you. You need

44:51

to figure out what you want

44:53

because it's confusing for us. Unfortunately

44:55

for me, because I wanted her

44:57

to be like, fuck off and

44:59

die. She does not. I'm in

45:01

this. Here's the thing. Once people

45:03

like. convince themselves that someone is

45:05

a good match for them. There's

45:07

just such inertia to make it

45:09

to the end and get engaged.

45:11

Like I get it, I would

45:13

get caught up in it too.

45:16

I mean, it happens in every

45:18

relationship. I definitely had arguments with

45:20

Greg where if it were a

45:22

first date, I would have been

45:24

like, mmm, moving on to the

45:26

next guy, but you've been together

45:28

for like six months and you're

45:30

like, I thought this person was

45:32

perfect. Well, surely we can just

45:34

work this out and he'll realize

45:36

that he was wrong, you know,

45:38

you know. Once you're invested, you

45:40

accept a lot more. And so

45:42

she's like, let me convince you,

45:44

you were really my number one.

45:47

from day one, so maybe that

45:49

will help you understand that I'm

45:51

all in this with you. And

45:53

David's like, okay, that's good to

45:55

know. And he then says that

45:57

Molly lets slip to him that

45:59

he's her only one and he

46:01

didn't like that she did that,

46:03

but it's been holding him back

46:05

with Lauren that he doesn't know

46:07

if she has other options. And

46:09

I'm like, So you're both like

46:11

annoyed at Molly for giving you

46:13

this information and also you're like

46:15

it's a problem for my relationship

46:18

with Lauren that I don't have

46:20

this information He's so annoying Okay,

46:22

so Dave then says he actually

46:24

denies that he ever told Molly

46:26

she was his number one choice

46:28

and he's like and we don't

46:30

see it So we don't know

46:32

exactly what was said and also

46:34

I think sometimes these things are

46:36

just like stupid telephone things where

46:38

they say right that makes you

46:40

believe That it's a declaration that

46:42

you're the number one. Yeah, like

46:44

I never felt this way about

46:47

anyone else Yeah, you might interpret

46:49

that there's no one else here

46:51

that I feel this strongly about

46:53

right is something that would definitely

46:55

lead me to say like he

46:57

told me I was number one

46:59

and He's like well I never

47:01

said that I can see myself

47:03

proposing to you. I've never said

47:05

that to Molly You're the only

47:07

person I feel that way about

47:09

and then he starts to get

47:11

emotional and be like I'm reverting

47:13

to old patterns by being afraid

47:15

of my feelings for you Okay,

47:18

and so now he's like upon

47:20

being confronted is like, no, actually,

47:22

I like you the best and

47:24

that's why I'm running away, but

47:26

I didn't say to Molly that

47:28

I liked her the best. That's

47:30

not what happened. So after this,

47:32

Lauren is feeling like really reassured.

47:34

She like bounces back into the

47:36

women's quarters, all perky and Molly

47:38

has been sitting with the other

47:40

women basically waiting for Lauren to

47:42

come back in heartbroken because she

47:44

says that Dave told her on

47:47

their date that he planned to

47:49

probably break up with Lauren on

47:51

this date. Madison relays this to

47:53

Lauren and is like, I think

47:55

he's playing both of you. And

47:57

Lauren's like, yeah. And yet they

47:59

end up engaged. I'm just going

48:01

to keep saying that. So then

48:03

Molly confronts Dave about this. She's

48:05

like, you didn't break up with

48:07

Lauren. He's like, I never said

48:09

that I would end it just

48:11

that I would be fine with

48:13

it ending after this date. Okay,

48:15

Dave. He's got like a little

48:18

list of the exact verbiage he

48:20

used in all these conversations. He's

48:22

basically like, well, but I have,

48:24

then I have this amazing date

48:26

with Lauren and that changed my

48:28

feelings and I'm just confused and

48:30

I'm crying and I'm just sad

48:32

boy. So Molly has to kind

48:34

of matter of factly like take

48:36

charge of what's happening here, which

48:38

is clearly a breakup, but he's

48:40

not saying it. And she's like,

48:42

do you and Lauren have a

48:44

stronger emotional connection? He says yes.

48:46

And he's like, I want to

48:49

like pursue the things, I want

48:51

to keep pursuing things with Lauren.

48:53

And she's like, okay, so you've

48:55

made your decision. And he's like,

48:57

yeah, but I hate that it's

48:59

like that. I hate that I

49:01

like made a decision. And then

49:03

he's like, why are you so

49:05

cool about this? And she says,

49:07

I'm not, but I wanted to

49:09

be chosen. If someone's not choosing

49:11

me, I'm not their person. So

49:13

like, what's the point of. this

49:15

woman, but I also need her

49:18

to be like very upset about

49:20

it. She should first of all

49:22

do the break up for me

49:24

and also be devastated. Be devastated

49:26

in a way that like makes

49:28

me sure how much she felt

49:30

for me, but also not in

49:32

a way where she's like mad

49:34

at me. I many years ago

49:36

read a fan fiction that always

49:38

stuck with me. But

49:40

exemplified the kind of like perfect male

49:43

breakup, which was it was about Orlando

49:45

Bloom and like his non-celebrity imaginary girlfriend

49:47

Like find she finds out that she

49:50

realizes he's fallen in love with his

49:52

co-star or something And so she like

49:54

comes to him and basically like sets

49:57

him free because she can't hold him

49:59

back and she knows like this is

50:01

his life now. And she's like weeping

50:04

crystalline tears, but she understands and he

50:06

like gently holds her. And like it's

50:08

just so beautiful and romantic and everything

50:11

just works out great for this guy.

50:13

He's got one beautiful woman like happily

50:15

crying for him and she's giving him

50:18

up for a better life and then

50:20

he's got like his movie star haughty

50:22

girlfriend waiting in the wings. And. It

50:25

was a bananas thing to write as

50:27

a fan fiction. But that is what

50:29

Dave wants and that is what men

50:32

usually want in this scenario. And of

50:34

course, like breakups are hard. You want

50:36

it to be both easy, painless and

50:39

also like validate that you were wanted.

50:41

It was real. Yeah. Yeah. And she's

50:43

like, I'm not really going to do

50:45

that. But what she does want is

50:48

for him to actually say that he

50:50

is ending things. And so finally she's

50:52

like, what do you want? It feels

50:55

like you're trying to choose her, but

50:57

you don't want to say it, so

50:59

you're making me say it, which was

51:02

my impression of what was happening as

51:04

well. And he's like, I thought I

51:06

did say it. And from then on,

51:09

he is very aggrieved and talks about

51:11

it extensively to Warren that she tried

51:13

to spin it as him not really

51:16

making the decision and saying it, but

51:18

he totally. You were talking around it.

51:20

Also, if she needs that, maybe you

51:23

could just like do what she needs.

51:25

Right. She's the one walking away, not

51:27

having gotten what she wanted out of

51:30

this scenario. So maybe man up and

51:32

say, I don't think this is the

51:34

right connection for me. I'm choosing to

51:37

end it and move forward with Lauren.

51:39

So Molly comes back in tears. She

51:41

and Lauren like finally talked directly and

51:44

kind of clear the air about. the

51:46

awkward tension between them and Lauren seems

51:48

to be kind of really on Molly's

51:51

side here and I was like maybe

51:53

she'll break up with him. No. She

51:55

doesn't. She gets engaged to him just

51:57

to put that out there again, but

52:00

she's like he is too good at

52:02

validating people. He shouldn't put us in

52:04

that position. It's not your fault. Molly

52:07

like, it's fine. And Molly, Molly kind

52:09

of like encouraged. just her to just

52:11

go for it. She's like, it's fine,

52:14

I understand. And so ultimately, they do

52:16

work things out. He kind of seems

52:18

in their conversation to like flip things

52:21

on Molly a little bit. Yeah. He

52:23

kind of throws Molly under the bus.

52:25

He's like, we broke up, but I,

52:28

you know, I didn't do anything wrong.

52:30

I didn't promise anything to Molly, and

52:32

then she came in here and tried

52:35

to flip it on me when I

52:37

was ending things with her. She didn't

52:39

even care about it. cool and didn't

52:42

care. I found this unseemly as well.

52:44

She's trying to preserve her dignity in

52:46

this moment and your going and talking

52:49

talking shit to her friend about how

52:51

she didn't cry enough and act devastated

52:53

enough that you are like annoyed me.

52:56

I really did not like it. So

52:58

he ultimately proposes to Lauren by telling

53:00

her that she just quote naturally has

53:03

those motherly nurturing qualities and those are

53:05

quote weird things to be attracted to.

53:07

But I am. I don't even have

53:10

time to unpack all of that. I'm

53:12

speechless. I'm speech, Claire. Claire, I'm speechless.

53:14

He's like, you know what a normal

53:16

thing to be attracted to is, lip

53:19

filler. You know what a weird thing

53:21

to be attracted to is? The main

53:23

thing that like men have talked about

53:26

being attracted to about women since time

53:28

immemorial, which is their nurturing qualities that

53:30

make them seem like they would take

53:33

care of me and my children. Pretty

53:35

gross if you ask me mothers. Oh,

53:37

it's so, it's like pretty terrible. But

53:40

this is how it works. It's like

53:42

the obsession with like natural motherliness does

53:44

come with that Madonna-Hore complex. Like you're

53:47

both putting them on a pedestal for

53:49

how motherly they are in this like

53:51

intangible way that other women aren't like

53:54

that. They're, they're not natural mothers the

53:56

way that you are. But also that's

53:58

kind of not sex. right? Yeah, because

54:01

you can't win. That's why Dave just

54:03

might need a Madonna and a whore.

54:05

I think that's sometimes why these

54:07

love triangles with the men in

54:09

the middle feel so icky because

54:11

it feels like it comes down

54:14

to them not being able to

54:16

resolve the fact that their wife

54:18

will be both the mother of

54:20

their children. and also their sex

54:22

their sex partner. Yeah, like they're

54:24

like, oh, no, those two qualities

54:26

don't go together in a woman.

54:29

I have two different women who

54:31

represent those two different things to

54:33

me and I guess I have

54:35

to pick whether I want a

54:37

motherly woman or a woman I can

54:39

have sex with for the rest of

54:41

my life. Oh, it's so hard. And then

54:43

they have their reveal meeting, which

54:46

goes about as well as you could hope.

54:48

He's wearing an ill-fitting burgundy

54:51

suit with black Oxford shoes

54:53

and no socks. This man

54:55

is morally opposed to socks.

54:58

A sockless look with black

55:00

Oxford's. It's bad. It's bad

55:02

and the suit just doesn't fit

55:04

him. Yeah. There's a collar gap

55:06

at the pants. I can't even.

55:08

Lauren admits before this to

55:11

being nervous because she knows

55:13

that he usually dates hot

55:15

women and that's a fixation for

55:17

him. And when they meet, his

55:19

vibe is off to me. Like

55:21

he seems less really excited than

55:23

a bit thrown by how she

55:25

was fine with her. Right. But not

55:28

like, oh my God, you're so

55:30

beautiful, which is what a lot

55:32

of the men say. Usually they're

55:35

very excited to finally see this

55:37

person. And they're like, oh, and

55:39

now I'm putting this beautiful face.

55:41

And he's sort of like looking

55:44

at her hard. Like, okay. Okay.

55:46

Yeah. Maybe I could work with this.

55:48

That's the vibe I was getting.

55:50

He says that she doesn't look

55:53

how he expected and that he

55:55

can see her as a teacher now

55:57

and remember what he said about teachers

55:59

before. which is that they're nerdy

56:01

and not his type. Like, overall,

56:03

this does not play badly. Like,

56:06

it's not done with music or

56:08

whatever to make it look like.

56:10

I don't think he's like actively

56:12

unattracted to her. I just think

56:14

he's not like blown away. And

56:16

this is the guy who has

56:19

been quite open about the fact

56:21

that he like has traditionally seen

56:23

women as sexy objects. So I'm

56:25

just a little nervous for Lauren.

56:27

Yeah. The show is definitely to

56:30

me edited in a way that

56:32

is not playing this up. Like,

56:34

uh-oh, they're in trouble. There's no

56:36

like music cues or anything to

56:38

suggest that. But when we see

56:40

this kind of reaction, it often

56:43

comes out later. Yeah, that they

56:45

were underwhelmed physically. Yeah. And Lauren

56:47

is like, I like Lauren. The

56:49

show is not about looks, but

56:51

she is super cute and like

56:53

beautiful and deserves someone who is

56:56

really excited to see her. I

56:58

agree. I'm going to say I

57:00

don't think they're going to end

57:02

up together, but we shall see.

57:04

Okay, I think it's time to

57:07

move on to our next love

57:09

triangle, but before we do, we're

57:11

going to take a quick break,

57:13

and when we get back, we

57:15

will get into Virginia, Devon, and

57:17

Brittany, and the rest of the

57:20

cast. Can you keep up? I

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I love this couch. And Greg

57:33

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57:35

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1:01:21

our next love triangle is Virginia

1:01:23

Devon and Brittany. They are... the

1:01:26

one sort of group of black

1:01:28

daters that we really see in

1:01:30

depth. Virginia is 34. She's a

1:01:32

health care recruiter. She has a

1:01:34

doctorate. She wrote her thesis on

1:01:36

racial bias in health care. And

1:01:39

so she works now like on

1:01:41

improving patient experiences and health care,

1:01:43

which is like really important. work

1:01:45

and also work that the Trump

1:01:47

administration is trying to make illegal,

1:01:50

which is really terrifying. She's a

1:01:52

former NBA dancer and Devin is

1:01:54

29. He's at the center of

1:01:56

the love triangle. He's a youth

1:01:58

director and coach. He coaches girls

1:02:00

basketball and he's played basketball previously.

1:02:03

And so they do connect a

1:02:05

little bit on the basketball, but

1:02:07

more importantly, they went to the

1:02:09

same high school. He was five

1:02:11

years apart. Five years apart. He

1:02:13

was five years behind her. And

1:02:16

I love that the age difference

1:02:18

doesn't really come up aside from

1:02:20

only like the beginning. Yeah, they

1:02:22

like clock that that's a thing,

1:02:24

but it doesn't like become a

1:02:27

whole like, oh, could you ever

1:02:29

date an older woman thing? No.

1:02:31

Also it becomes very clear, very

1:02:33

early that Devon prefers to date

1:02:35

women who are a few years

1:02:37

older than him. His other love

1:02:40

interest Brittany is 35, so she's

1:02:42

also older. She's a partnership executive.

1:02:44

And she also coached actually D1

1:02:46

basketball. I love Brittany. She has

1:02:48

really fun fashion. So it was

1:02:50

always like a visual treat. Like

1:02:53

they have one tough conversation, but

1:02:55

she's wearing a fluffy orange mini

1:02:57

dress with silver boots. And so

1:02:59

it was just a visual oasis

1:03:01

for me during the conversation. She

1:03:04

also wears a lot of like

1:03:06

hot pink. It's very fun. She

1:03:08

in Virginia, I actually really like

1:03:10

both of them. I think it

1:03:12

was Brittany who at one point

1:03:14

was like partnership is so great.

1:03:17

Maybe you just need to like

1:03:19

drive to get an outfit or

1:03:21

a dress. Yes, and it's gonna

1:03:23

take an hour and a half

1:03:25

and I was like what? My

1:03:28

partner is not just like I'll

1:03:30

drive you of course I'll go

1:03:32

with you to get a dress.

1:03:34

I will say activity we would

1:03:36

split up on to be on.

1:03:38

Partnership for me is when Greg

1:03:41

takes a bunch of my online

1:03:43

returns to the post office. You

1:03:45

know what that is that is

1:03:47

love. That's beautiful Claire. that is

1:03:49

beautiful. So Virginia and Devon's main

1:03:51

challenges that Virginia like struggles to

1:03:54

open up about personal things. We

1:03:56

don't like see so much of

1:03:58

their relationship. I felt like this

1:04:00

love triangle was like a little

1:04:02

bit underdeveloped to be honest. Well

1:04:05

I thought it was so interesting

1:04:07

because we see a lot of

1:04:09

conversations between Virginia and Devon where

1:04:11

Devon is like I need more

1:04:13

from you. I need to go

1:04:15

deeper. And then once his relationship

1:04:18

breaks down with Brittany, he's just

1:04:20

like, well, Virginia's it for me.

1:04:22

We're a perfect match. And I'm

1:04:24

like, did you ever get deeper?

1:04:26

Because I don't really feel like

1:04:28

I saw it. They have like

1:04:31

one conversation where he's like, okay,

1:04:33

we keep talking about how much

1:04:35

we like food or whatever, burritos,

1:04:37

but proposals are in like one

1:04:39

day, so maybe you could. Tell

1:04:42

me a little something about you.

1:04:44

And what she admits is that

1:04:46

her grandparents were kind of her

1:04:48

only example of a healthy marriage

1:04:50

and that has made her really

1:04:52

guarded. So she kind of gives

1:04:55

ultimately opens up by providing an

1:04:57

explanation for why she can't open

1:04:59

up. Right, but we just don't

1:05:01

learn that much about her. So

1:05:03

I feel like I have a

1:05:05

lot of question marks about how

1:05:08

good of a match the two

1:05:10

of them are. Yeah, same. We

1:05:12

almost see more between Devin and

1:05:14

Brittany. Yeah, I mean, Brittany is

1:05:16

much more open. She's very fun.

1:05:19

She's like got a bigger personality

1:05:21

and their relationship is originally kind

1:05:23

of rooted in this shared passion

1:05:25

for basketball and he shares with

1:05:27

both of them, but first I

1:05:29

think with Brittany that he had

1:05:32

like this big formative trauma when

1:05:34

he fell playing basketball and had

1:05:36

a back injury that resulted in

1:05:38

this like mysterious pain he couldn't

1:05:40

play anymore and he kept seeing

1:05:42

doctors nothing was working he was

1:05:45

taking more and more pain killers.

1:05:47

He was like abusing over he

1:05:49

was abusing I think like ibuprofen.

1:05:51

Yeah and he says that ultimately

1:05:53

he sort of turned back to

1:05:56

prayer and to God and tried

1:05:58

one more doctor and the doctor

1:06:00

discovered that it was because his

1:06:02

femurs were like grading against his

1:06:04

pelvis. I don't know. It was

1:06:06

sounded very on. I extremely painful.

1:06:09

That's like body horror for me.

1:06:11

So, but he's well now, like

1:06:13

basically they found what was going

1:06:15

on, they were able to resolve

1:06:17

the issue. And now he feels

1:06:19

like, he seems his like religious.

1:06:22

Like his faith seems very strong

1:06:24

as a result of Yeah, of

1:06:26

that experience was that like kind

1:06:28

of prayer got him through And

1:06:30

many many I'd be profins a

1:06:33

day to not get him through

1:06:35

it was ultimately prayer And obviously

1:06:37

like him being able to like

1:06:39

do what he loves again basketball

1:06:41

has made him like very grateful

1:06:43

for the life that he has

1:06:46

Yeah, so things kind of break

1:06:48

down between Devon and Brittany after

1:06:50

So he opens up to her

1:06:52

about this in this incident and,

1:06:54

you know, his abuse of these

1:06:56

medications and the shame he has

1:06:59

around that. And Brittany is super

1:07:01

supportive. I thought she was like

1:07:03

amazing in receiving this. And so

1:07:05

in return, she talks about her

1:07:07

shame that she held through a

1:07:10

lot of her life about her

1:07:12

sexuality. And she tells him essentially

1:07:14

that she is. queer, she doesn't

1:07:16

put a label on her identity,

1:07:18

but she says that she's had

1:07:20

sexual relationships with women, a handful

1:07:23

of them. She ultimately has never

1:07:25

wanted to like get very serious

1:07:27

with a woman or marry a

1:07:29

woman. She still sees herself marrying

1:07:31

a man, who knows exactly what

1:07:34

is behind that. Yeah, she like

1:07:36

says, you know, I had these

1:07:38

revelations about my sexuality. It sounds

1:07:40

like in the last like five

1:07:42

years or so. Yeah, I really,

1:07:44

I felt for Brittany, I also

1:07:47

found And as she was describing

1:07:49

this, I found myself really feeling

1:07:51

for her former partners who were

1:07:53

women. It sounds like she ended

1:07:55

her last relationship with a woman

1:07:57

who could sense that she didn't

1:08:00

really see a future and she

1:08:02

had to kind of be like,

1:08:04

yeah, I'm gonna marry a man.

1:08:06

Like this is not gonna rise

1:08:08

to that level, which sounds really

1:08:11

devastating. But that's what Brittany sees

1:08:13

herself, she sees herself married to

1:08:15

a man and that's what she

1:08:17

really wants to pursue. She also

1:08:19

makes it clear that she's a

1:08:21

monogamous person regardless of whether she's

1:08:24

with a man or woman. This

1:08:26

is the thing he really presses

1:08:28

her on whether she's still he's

1:08:30

like so you're still interested in

1:08:32

women or no you're not and

1:08:34

she's like well I mean I'm

1:08:37

still I am who I am

1:08:39

like I'm attracted to women but

1:08:41

I'm monogamous like I want to

1:08:43

marry man and then I will

1:08:45

only be involved with that person

1:08:48

yeah he's like okay I mostly

1:08:50

really liked Devin but this response

1:08:52

really bothered me like the Like

1:08:54

she responds to his trauma with

1:08:56

such compassion, like not an ounce

1:08:58

of like shame or like concern

1:09:01

about his character because he abused

1:09:03

medication, like just total compassion, and

1:09:05

he seems like deeply thrown and

1:09:07

concerned that she has been with

1:09:09

women, even though she's making it

1:09:11

very clear that like she wants

1:09:14

to be with him. And I

1:09:16

just, he's just very like, he's

1:09:18

doing the thing that's like, well,

1:09:20

I've never been with someone who's

1:09:22

dated women. It's a lot for

1:09:25

me to process. Like as a

1:09:27

person, it doesn't change how I

1:09:29

see you, but like, do I

1:09:31

want to be married to someone

1:09:33

who has been with women? And

1:09:35

for me, I was like, it

1:09:38

absolutely went from like great romantic

1:09:40

partner to good person. Right, like

1:09:42

I really felt him shift first.

1:09:44

her like in that moment and

1:09:46

she obviously picks up on it

1:09:48

and she's very generous you know

1:09:51

she says to him like it

1:09:53

would have been nice to hear

1:09:55

you say like who cares that

1:09:57

doesn't matter to me at all

1:09:59

but she also says you know

1:10:02

I don't want you to lie

1:10:04

so yeah that's true I mean

1:10:06

I will say sometimes the men

1:10:08

on the season respond very poorly

1:10:10

to stuff that I think they

1:10:12

should have responded more supportively too

1:10:15

but if that's how they really

1:10:17

feel then it's better to have

1:10:19

the information yeah And so she

1:10:21

ends up coming back on their

1:10:23

next state and is like, well,

1:10:25

I thought about it. We just,

1:10:28

we aren't a match. I need

1:10:30

someone less rigid. I'm clearly not

1:10:32

for you. Virginia is wonderful. She's

1:10:34

my girl. Congratulations. I hope we'll

1:10:36

all be friends. Yeah, I was

1:10:39

like, Brittany, you are a great

1:10:41

person. You are very generous at

1:10:43

every juncture. Virginia and Devon do

1:10:45

get engaged. They have a pretty

1:10:47

uneventful reveal. They're both in purple.

1:10:49

I don't know if that was

1:10:52

pre-coordinated. He's got like a metallic

1:10:54

jacket and she's wearing like a

1:10:56

lavender mini dress. And she just

1:10:58

says thank you to almost everything

1:11:00

he says. She seems really overwhelmed.

1:11:02

I couldn't tell if it was

1:11:05

just the cameras and the... the

1:11:07

moment or if she was like,

1:11:09

I don't know, because she's just

1:11:11

like, thank you, thank you, I'm

1:11:13

beautiful, thank you. Ring, thank you.

1:11:16

I do wonder if Virginia's life

1:11:18

will mesh with Devons once they're

1:11:20

in the real world. I'm very

1:11:22

curious. I really don't feel like

1:11:24

I have a sense of it

1:11:26

either way. Well, like you said,

1:11:29

it was really hard to get

1:11:31

to know Virginia and I honestly

1:11:33

don't. feel like I have enough

1:11:35

of a sense of Devon either.

1:11:37

I think they were kind of

1:11:40

shortchanged on screen time. They're not

1:11:42

the only ones who get shortchanged

1:11:44

on screen time this season and

1:11:46

yet we have six pot episodes.

1:11:48

So where did all the time

1:11:50

go? We'll get to it. I

1:11:53

know where. Yeah, we know where

1:11:55

it went to four people who

1:11:57

we will like basically never see

1:11:59

again. So that's fun. Let's talk

1:12:01

about someone that we basically don't

1:12:03

want to talk about. Nothing happens

1:12:06

between them. Monica and Joey. Monica

1:12:08

is 28. She works in digital

1:12:10

marketing at the time of filming.

1:12:12

I think she's like between jobs,

1:12:14

but is a caretaker for her

1:12:17

grandmother. And Joey is a 35

1:12:19

year old physician's associate. I think

1:12:21

he also like buys properties and

1:12:23

remodels them. And they are like

1:12:25

the closest thing that we get

1:12:27

to a Golden couple. they like

1:12:30

zone in on each other really

1:12:32

quickly. They are the first, like

1:12:34

we know that during filming they

1:12:36

all do the like proposal and

1:12:38

reveals on the same day, but

1:12:40

we get their reveal way earlier.

1:12:43

It's actually so obvious because you

1:12:45

see so much of Joey in

1:12:47

the pot in the men's quarters

1:12:49

through the rest of the season

1:12:51

after they have been shown. Right.

1:12:54

He's also very distinctive because he's

1:12:56

the only one with like shoulder

1:12:58

length hair. Yeah, he has shoulder

1:13:00

length hair and he has a

1:13:02

really intense Minnesota accent that all

1:13:04

the other guys are always trying

1:13:07

to kind of like mimic. But

1:13:09

to me, his voice sounds like

1:13:11

Shane from the Chicago season, but

1:13:13

with less repressed rage. He was

1:13:15

like, he really is a Shane

1:13:17

vibe. Like he's a little floppy.

1:13:20

Yeah. The way Shane was like

1:13:22

a little chaotic, but like, but

1:13:24

like. his vibe is like really

1:13:26

warm rather than yeah simmering anger

1:13:28

yeah although it does seem like

1:13:31

he's had a tough life in

1:13:33

a lot of ways he seems

1:13:35

to have a really upbeat outlook

1:13:37

about it some people just are

1:13:39

that way and I really respect

1:13:41

it he has three sisters one

1:13:44

of them had cerebral palsy and

1:13:46

she died when he was 16

1:13:48

and he's just like she taught

1:13:50

me so much. She's wonderful. And

1:13:52

like, I have my two sisters

1:13:54

who are still here. I'm so

1:13:57

close to them. And that's always

1:13:59

a green flag to be honest

1:14:01

for a man. And Dave knows

1:14:03

that. Yeah. So the one other

1:14:05

thing that we learned. about Joey

1:14:08

is that yeah his mom really

1:14:10

struggles financially his parents are divorced

1:14:12

and like he is really anxious

1:14:14

about money and like has always

1:14:16

prided himself on being able to

1:14:18

make enough money to kind of

1:14:21

support his mom as well and

1:14:23

yeah Monica's you know caring for

1:14:25

her family so she has her

1:14:27

own like anxieties around her family's

1:14:29

health and they kind of bond

1:14:31

over that and they just have

1:14:34

like a very goofy light energy.

1:14:36

Yeah. Very high intense energy that

1:14:38

I was like, okay, I see

1:14:40

it. The only thing that I

1:14:42

would say about them is that

1:14:45

it is possible that they are

1:14:47

maybe too similar in energy. But

1:14:49

I think they could have a

1:14:51

lot of fun together. I don't

1:14:53

know. I agree. We'll see how

1:14:55

it plays out, but they are

1:14:58

definitely like, we don't see them

1:15:00

dating anyone else. Yeah. So now

1:15:02

let's talk about the love square

1:15:04

that I think like really dominated

1:15:06

my viewing experience of these six

1:15:08

episodes, which is why it was

1:15:11

really confusing when I realized that

1:15:13

none of these people make it

1:15:15

out of the box. I was

1:15:17

like, wait, but they're the ones

1:15:19

I'm interested in. I do love

1:15:22

that when we talk about people

1:15:24

making it out of the pods

1:15:26

and I just imagine them still

1:15:28

in there. Like we have to

1:15:30

live there forever. They'll only let

1:15:32

us out if we promise to

1:15:35

get married. So we have Meg,

1:15:37

Mason, Madison, and Alex. Basically, Mason,

1:15:39

and Madison are both at the

1:15:41

center of two love triangles that

1:15:43

are connected by their own relationship.

1:15:46

Meg is 31. She's an oncology

1:15:48

nurse and former flight attendant. Like

1:15:50

she talks about her sultry flight

1:15:52

attendant voice at one point. She

1:15:54

grew up really religious but has

1:15:56

kind of broken with that as

1:15:59

an adult and her parents think

1:16:01

she's going to hell. Classic experience

1:16:03

shared by many people on this

1:16:05

show. is 33, he's a cinematographer

1:16:07

who had kind of like an

1:16:09

unconventional professional path, like he almost

1:16:12

failed out of high school, and

1:16:14

then he got into this work

1:16:16

by getting really involved in the

1:16:18

skateboarding scene and being the one

1:16:20

who would like film all the

1:16:23

tricks that people were trying and

1:16:25

through that like got into cinematography,

1:16:27

which is kind of cool. Madison

1:16:29

is 28 she is allegedly an

1:16:31

artist I could not find any

1:16:33

evidence of this online except for

1:16:36

some like really hot pictures photographs

1:16:38

of her painting on her Instagram

1:16:40

so you're like she does paint

1:16:42

I believe very much that she

1:16:44

paints I am not convinced that

1:16:46

she paints like at a professional

1:16:49

level which is like fine but

1:16:51

it's very much presented like she

1:16:53

is a artists who supports herself

1:16:55

by working as an artist. And

1:16:57

I don't think that's the case.

1:17:00

Yeah, her Instagram Bio says, sometimes

1:17:02

I paint. So yeah, sometimes she

1:17:04

paints. She doesn't like even post

1:17:06

full paintings on her Instagram and

1:17:08

I couldn't find an art Instagram

1:17:10

for her or like anything. Anyway,

1:17:13

I like Madison. I'm not trying

1:17:15

to give her a hard time,

1:17:17

but I went digging. Madison had

1:17:19

a really tough background. Her mom

1:17:21

had her at 19 and her

1:17:23

mom and stepfather were both addicts

1:17:26

who really have continued to struggle

1:17:28

with that. Her stepdad actually died

1:17:30

from an overdose when she was

1:17:32

in eighth grade and her younger

1:17:34

brother also died in a car

1:17:37

accident in 2020. So she's just

1:17:39

experienced an absolutely astounding amount of

1:17:41

loss and yeah, there's just like

1:17:43

her story like really. broke me

1:17:45

and also the fact that she

1:17:47

just seems staggeringly self-aware. Yeah, she's

1:17:50

clearly been in a ton of

1:17:52

therapy and she keeps talking about

1:17:54

like what a resourced person she

1:17:56

is and how she is like

1:17:58

found ways to deal with her

1:18:00

trauma and like the impacts of

1:18:03

it. She also has a voice

1:18:05

that I was like you could

1:18:07

read audio books to me like

1:18:09

a sleepy time story like great

1:18:11

ASMR voice. It's very soothing. It's

1:18:14

lilting. I would describe her voice

1:18:16

as lilting. She's from Indiana so

1:18:18

you know twins. You relate to

1:18:20

her. She left for college same

1:18:22

and And she kind of she

1:18:24

was like I got very adventurous

1:18:27

I went to Paris I met

1:18:29

someone who invited me to like

1:18:31

spend a summer in the Middle

1:18:33

East learning Arabic and teaching English

1:18:35

so I yeah she lived in

1:18:37

Jordan yeah so she's like seen

1:18:40

a lot she wanted to like

1:18:42

get away from her sort of

1:18:44

more provincial upbringing and her her

1:18:46

mother she's still in touch with

1:18:48

her mother but they seem to

1:18:51

have a strained relationship yeah yeah

1:18:53

she's like I love my mom

1:18:55

but she's not like a support

1:18:57

for me in any sense Alex

1:18:59

is 29, he's Madison's other love

1:19:01

interest, he is a commercial real

1:19:04

estate broker, and his sort of

1:19:06

whole brand is that he used

1:19:08

to be really unattractive, overweight acne,

1:19:10

like teenager who didn't get attention

1:19:12

from girls, and like if he

1:19:14

told a girl he had a

1:19:17

crush on her, she would laugh

1:19:19

at him. And now he's like,

1:19:21

now I get more attention from

1:19:23

women. But it all feels so

1:19:25

fake because I'm the same person.

1:19:28

So that's why I have to

1:19:30

come here to know that they

1:19:32

really love me for my insides.

1:19:34

This is a real thing that

1:19:36

happens. Like if someone is fat

1:19:38

and loses weight and suddenly people

1:19:41

start treating them really differently, it

1:19:43

can create a lot of like

1:19:45

confusion and trust issues with like,

1:19:47

how do I know if someone's

1:19:49

being nice to me? Yeah. have

1:19:52

this body that looks like it

1:19:54

has more societal value. And so

1:19:56

that's that's his motivation. He says

1:19:58

he was bullied really badly as

1:20:00

a kid. Sounds did pretty brutal.

1:20:02

Yeah. And he also had a

1:20:05

tough time with his family who

1:20:07

was very academically oriented and he

1:20:09

was kicked out of the house

1:20:11

in high school because of an

1:20:13

academic failure. He says that he

1:20:15

has like very severe ADHD I

1:20:18

think. Yeah, so yeah, so he

1:20:20

and Madison are like, like, like

1:20:22

bond over this at first, like

1:20:24

having had, like, difficulty when they

1:20:26

were younger and having sort of,

1:20:29

like, bloomed a little bit now,

1:20:31

but still having these like, very

1:20:33

quickly, which I think gives them

1:20:35

the sense of like, their connection

1:20:37

being faded very early. And so

1:20:39

it's interesting because they have this

1:20:42

very strong beginning and then doubts

1:20:44

creep in more and more over

1:20:46

time. Yeah. Meg. is the other

1:20:48

side of Madison's love triangle with

1:20:50

Mason. I want to talk about

1:20:52

their relationship a little bit. We

1:20:55

talked about it a little bit

1:20:57

before we taped and I was

1:20:59

sort of like, I just kind

1:21:01

of don't really see them together

1:21:03

and I think it's partly because

1:21:06

Mason is this sort of like

1:21:08

former skater boy like turned cinematographer

1:21:10

who seems sort of like a

1:21:12

little bit. all broodier and broodier

1:21:14

in a way that matches to

1:21:16

me with Madison just instinctively. And

1:21:19

Meg is this very peppy like

1:21:21

seems more like she would have

1:21:23

been like on the volleyball team

1:21:25

or something you know what I

1:21:27

mean or like a cheerleader. But

1:21:29

they really bond over having similar

1:21:32

tastes like she's the she's the

1:21:34

one I think where he's talking

1:21:36

about how he thinks that she's

1:21:38

just like. the voice of like

1:21:40

a chat robot or something saying

1:21:43

all the right things and she's

1:21:45

like have you seen the movie

1:21:47

her and he's like stop I

1:21:49

love the movie her and I'm

1:21:51

like you were describing the movie

1:21:53

her okay but I also think

1:21:56

that part of this is in

1:21:58

reaction because he brings up the

1:22:00

movie her to Madison has not

1:22:02

heard of the movie her right

1:22:04

and so he's like oh well

1:22:06

Meg Like, oh my God, there

1:22:09

is a woman who knows about

1:22:11

that extremely famous movie, her, starring

1:22:13

Scarlet Johansson as the boys. And

1:22:15

then she's like, I think my

1:22:17

favorite movie is Inception. And he's

1:22:20

like, what? They're both like, wait,

1:22:22

what? What? No way. No one's

1:22:24

ever liked Inception. But my favorite

1:22:26

moment. Oh my God. Is when

1:22:28

they really bond. Because they just

1:22:30

both like, you know, cultural objects

1:22:33

that are. underground and outside the

1:22:35

mainstream like Moulin Rouge. An extremely

1:22:37

big box office case that included

1:22:39

like original music. Two of the

1:22:41

biggest movie stars in the world.

1:22:43

And also, like, Christina Aguilera did

1:22:46

a whole sound, like, song for.

1:22:48

Which topped the charts for four

1:22:50

weeks, and it actually was not

1:22:52

just Christina Aguilera, it was like

1:22:54

three. Lelkam. Three of the top

1:22:57

female pop stars of the time.

1:22:59

They did a chart-topping song for

1:23:01

that movie. Bass Lerman, yes, does

1:23:03

some campy shit in Moulin Rouge.

1:23:05

It is a weird movie. It

1:23:07

was still very mainstream at the

1:23:10

time and I was like, is

1:23:12

this just like the fact that

1:23:14

these people are a handful of

1:23:16

years younger than us? So they

1:23:18

may be, but like guys, Moulin

1:23:20

Rouge is not alt. It's just

1:23:23

not. Well the fact that the

1:23:25

other things they're bonding about are

1:23:27

like inception makes me think that

1:23:29

they just don't understand what an

1:23:31

underground outside the mainstream because they

1:23:34

literally are like, we're the same

1:23:36

person. We both like this list

1:23:38

of box office hits. And they

1:23:40

also, they do bond over something

1:23:42

that's a little, maybe more out

1:23:44

of the mainstream, although honestly, still

1:23:47

very popular, which is alien conspiracy

1:23:49

theories. Like, a lot of people

1:23:51

just like to have fun talking

1:23:53

about aliens. I don't know. I

1:23:55

don't think that's that weird. I

1:23:58

mean, she brings up Joe Rogan,

1:24:00

and like, I have to be

1:24:02

honest. Joe Rogan and his alien

1:24:04

conspiracy theory guests are extremely popular.

1:24:06

I don't like it, but it's true.

1:24:09

And she, this was the one

1:24:11

like record scratch moment for

1:24:13

me with Meg where I was

1:24:15

like, wait, what? I know, because I

1:24:18

loved Meg so much and then I

1:24:20

was like, Joe Rogan, I'm

1:24:22

concerned. And not even just the Joe

1:24:24

Rogan thing, I mean it could have been

1:24:26

worse, it could have been like right wing

1:24:28

politics, but she's like I was listening to

1:24:30

this Joe Rogan podcast, right? And like

1:24:33

someone was talking about how we all,

1:24:35

there are like different powers and energies in

1:24:37

the universe and if you, once you reach

1:24:39

a certain energy and power you can control

1:24:42

the weather. And maybe natural disasters

1:24:44

are superior beings experimenting with

1:24:46

us. And I was like,

1:24:48

you sound like you are

1:24:51

one step away from like

1:24:53

a Rothschild style like conspiracy

1:24:55

theory. I'm like getting a

1:24:57

little bit concerned that she's

1:24:59

like one inch away from like

1:25:02

and the Jews control the weather.

1:25:04

The Illuminati hash like slash Jews

1:25:06

are doing it. You think that

1:25:08

some crack pot on Joe Rogan

1:25:11

is giving you real information when

1:25:13

he says that at a certain

1:25:15

energy you can control the weather?

1:25:18

That's the level that George Soros

1:25:20

is vibrating at. He is attained.

1:25:22

I was like, look, Meg, I hope

1:25:24

you are just the type of person

1:25:27

that like finds it like fun and

1:25:29

goofy to go down these rapid holes

1:25:31

because the rest of her vibe does

1:25:34

not indicate like... But this is really

1:25:36

illustrative of the risks, right? Like this

1:25:38

is how we see the crunchy to-

1:25:41

Yeah, the granola mom decouin on pipeline.

1:25:43

No, it's so true. It starts out

1:25:45

with this like, isn't this like interesting

1:25:47

and weird? And then it's like, maybe

1:25:50

it's true. And then you're like, seed

1:25:52

oils or the devil. Yeah. The

1:25:54

Jews are making us have seed

1:25:56

oils because of something related to

1:25:59

some conspiracy. theory about alien tablets

1:26:01

that I heard two years ago. Like

1:26:03

that's how it happens. It introduces you

1:26:05

bit by bit to these irrational ideas

1:26:07

about how the world works and how

1:26:09

it can be controlled by forces you

1:26:12

can't see and the next thing you

1:26:14

know. You think it's all fun in

1:26:16

games until you believe that there's like

1:26:18

a child's sex ring like under a

1:26:20

pizza parlor, okay? Exactly. You know, she

1:26:23

believes that stuff. I'm just saying that

1:26:25

we are in what she's saying, seeing

1:26:27

that pipeline, seeing that pipeline in action.

1:26:30

So that's Megan Mason. I do,

1:26:33

we do, I think we liked

1:26:35

Meg aside from. I do, I

1:26:37

actually like, I liked Meg and

1:26:39

Mason. Yeah. I liked Alex at

1:26:42

first and then I started to

1:26:44

get really fucking annoyed with Alex

1:26:46

and how he is, he is

1:26:49

a man who presents as like.

1:26:51

I have this formative trauma and

1:26:53

so I can relate to other

1:26:55

people who have like really difficult

1:26:58

childhoods. And then it turns out

1:27:00

that actually he like can only

1:27:02

really wrap his mind around his

1:27:04

own trauma. Other people's are a

1:27:07

little scary to him. Yeah, he's

1:27:09

really worried that he might have

1:27:11

to at some point face. some

1:27:14

sort of lasting effects or repercussions

1:27:16

of Madison's trauma that she's gone

1:27:18

through and that he won't be

1:27:20

able to deal with that. So

1:27:23

when they're talking about things like

1:27:25

issues that they've confronted that are

1:27:27

rooted in their childhood, she's very

1:27:30

like, no, of course, I understand.

1:27:32

And he's like, yeah, okay. Would

1:27:34

that affect me badly? Like, what

1:27:36

do you think? Would you ever

1:27:39

hurt my feelings? And could I

1:27:41

trust you? If you did. And

1:27:43

it's like, uh, yeah, I mean,

1:27:45

okay, man, you're just not gonna

1:27:48

find a partner who's always going

1:27:50

to behave in a way that

1:27:52

like comforts your nervous system. perfectly.

1:27:55

Yeah, they bring up attachment styles

1:27:57

and she says that she's avoidant

1:27:59

and that's like the death knell.

1:28:01

He can't ever forget that. He's

1:28:04

had bad experiences with avoidant people

1:28:06

and he can't handle that style

1:28:08

of dealing with conflict and she

1:28:11

tries to then kind of reel

1:28:13

it back and be like, well,

1:28:15

that is how I grew up

1:28:17

because of everything that I went

1:28:20

through and how I had to

1:28:22

cope. But I've really worked on

1:28:24

myself and let me prove it

1:28:26

to you. Like, you kind of

1:28:29

freaked me out by pulling away

1:28:31

so dramatically, but I'm not running.

1:28:33

Like, I'm coming back to our

1:28:36

next date, I brought you a

1:28:38

gift, it's my special stuffy, a

1:28:40

bare alien, I call barely in.

1:28:42

And I'm going to say, she

1:28:45

really does not show any indication

1:28:47

in these interactions of avoidance. She

1:28:49

actually confronts like... every issue very

1:28:52

head-on and in a very mature

1:28:54

way. Yeah, I was, I didn't

1:28:56

really see any evidence that she

1:28:58

was avoidant. And, but like that

1:29:01

kind of sets, puts the seed

1:29:03

in for him that she might

1:29:05

be sort of damaged in a

1:29:08

way that will make her an

1:29:10

insufficient partner for him. Yeah, at

1:29:12

one point he's like, yeah, sure,

1:29:14

we all have our issues, but

1:29:17

can I deal with yours? He

1:29:20

sometimes presents it in this way

1:29:23

that's like, I just want to

1:29:25

be sure I can support you

1:29:27

in this. And she's like, well,

1:29:29

no, I'm basically fine. I support

1:29:31

myself. I support myself. I support

1:29:33

myself. And he's like, yeah, but

1:29:35

like, I just don't know if

1:29:38

I'd be able to. And it

1:29:40

becomes clear that he's not really

1:29:42

worried about if he can support

1:29:44

her. He's like, yeah. I used

1:29:46

to have to kind of basically

1:29:48

compartmentalize so much that I forget

1:29:50

a lot of things about my

1:29:53

childhood and sometimes I forget like

1:29:55

schedule things or you know, my

1:29:57

memory can be a little spotty.

1:29:59

And he's like, oh, no, what

1:30:01

would I do if that happens?

1:30:03

So odd. I was like, really,

1:30:05

like, you're this concerned over, like,

1:30:08

that she might forget about a

1:30:10

scheduling thing, like, put it in

1:30:12

her calendar, bro, and she even

1:30:14

says, I don't think it's something

1:30:16

that you notice. Like, it's a

1:30:18

thing that I feel. Yeah, men

1:30:20

love being like, I'm the savior

1:30:23

of this broken beautiful woman, but

1:30:25

they hate actually having to do

1:30:27

anything. Right. He's like, I really

1:30:29

want you to have worked on

1:30:31

that, but I really want me

1:30:33

to be the perfect person who

1:30:35

will save you from it. Yeah,

1:30:38

just by being here. So their

1:30:40

relationship gets a little complicated after

1:30:42

this. She does kind of suggest

1:30:44

to Alex that they only focus

1:30:46

on each other at one point

1:30:48

and he agrees, but then she

1:30:50

doesn't cut things off with Mason

1:30:53

and I was like, what's going

1:30:55

on? Okay, I could not tell

1:30:57

how much they chopped up this

1:30:59

timeline because there were some dates

1:31:01

that were shown directly after each

1:31:03

other that like made it seem

1:31:05

like both Mason. and Madison, and

1:31:08

maybe this is how it happened,

1:31:10

but it did make me a

1:31:12

little bit suspicious. Like it made

1:31:14

it seem like both Mason and

1:31:16

Madison kept telling their other partners

1:31:18

that they're gonna like focus on

1:31:20

them and then not, like not

1:31:23

following through. The reason that I

1:31:25

believed that this is how it

1:31:27

went is because she does go

1:31:29

into her date with Mason and

1:31:31

sort of gently is like, Meg

1:31:33

really likes you and like, that's

1:31:35

true. I realize that I'm kind

1:31:38

of fine with that. Maybe that's

1:31:40

just kind of where this is

1:31:42

going and he's like no, I

1:31:44

really like you I don't want

1:31:46

to give up on this and

1:31:48

she's like okay and Then they

1:31:50

just continue it's almost like she

1:31:53

did kind of like half-heartedly try

1:31:55

to try to break up with

1:31:57

him break it off But then

1:31:59

she he didn't want to and

1:32:01

she's like Okay, I guess never

1:32:03

mind. And then he comes back

1:32:05

in the next date and is

1:32:08

like, I've realized that my God

1:32:10

is with you, I'm committed to

1:32:12

you. And she cringes and is

1:32:14

like, I didn't mean to like

1:32:16

give you an ultimatum or pressure

1:32:18

you to do that. But I

1:32:20

guess I love hearing that. She

1:32:23

doesn't reciprocate, but she's like, great.

1:32:25

Thank you. And then they talk

1:32:27

about how much they love cream

1:32:29

pies. One thing we haven't discussed

1:32:31

is that when Madison kind of

1:32:33

brings up sex with Alex, he's

1:32:35

sort of like, nope. Not yet.

1:32:38

Very weird. And then with Mason,

1:32:40

it's very sexual, like they talk

1:32:42

a lot about. In that regard,

1:32:44

I was like, Madison and Mason

1:32:46

are much better suited for each

1:32:48

other than Madison and Alex. I

1:32:50

feel like. Madison zoned

1:32:53

in on this like depth of

1:32:55

connection. She felt with Alex from

1:32:57

the beginning and really like didn't

1:32:59

want to let that go. Yeah.

1:33:01

And also she says like she

1:33:03

keeps seeing Meg come back from

1:33:05

dates elated. And so she starts

1:33:07

to feel like Mason is like

1:33:09

gassing us both up and she

1:33:11

even says like you know I'm

1:33:13

not mad at Meg about it.

1:33:15

It doesn't bother me, but it

1:33:17

makes me less attracted. to Mason.

1:33:19

Right, that's kind of turning her

1:33:21

off. At a certain point, and

1:33:23

like, that's similar to the way

1:33:25

I feel about the guys who

1:33:27

have these love triangles where one

1:33:29

of them is for sex and

1:33:31

one of them is for depth,

1:33:33

I was like, it sort of

1:33:35

feels like she's like frustrated that

1:33:37

Alex won't go there with her.

1:33:39

So she's going right into the

1:33:41

chats with Mason. It's just like,

1:33:43

so cream pies, I like them.

1:33:45

Look, that sexual energy has to

1:33:47

go somewhere. Yeah, no, she's definitely

1:33:49

like going off of Mason a

1:33:51

little bit and he is reacting

1:33:54

by trying to hold on to

1:33:56

her. I do kind of like,

1:33:58

I always, I kind of wondered

1:34:00

why they didn't, why she didn't

1:34:02

take Mason more seriously. and I

1:34:04

think that mega is probably a

1:34:06

big part of it. I love

1:34:08

their couple name would be Madison,

1:34:10

which I love team Madison. You

1:34:12

know what? That's pretty good. And

1:34:14

so this is all kind of

1:34:16

like building where Madison has been

1:34:18

gently trying to pull away from

1:34:20

Mason. He's locking. his claws around

1:34:22

her because he can feel her

1:34:24

pulling away. Alex is slightly pulling

1:34:26

away from Madison and she's like

1:34:28

locking her claws in like no,

1:34:30

don't go anywhere. It's so interesting

1:34:32

because you see Mason and Madison

1:34:34

both react in the same way

1:34:36

of like someone is pulling away

1:34:38

from me, that means they're more

1:34:40

valuable. Right. Like it's such a

1:34:42

human dating instinct where you're like,

1:34:44

wait, wait, I wasn't sure, but

1:34:46

now that now that might go

1:34:48

away like I want them more.

1:34:50

It's like a... gentler version of

1:34:52

what happened with Leo. Yeah. In

1:34:54

the last season in DC, when

1:34:56

you think someone is leaving you

1:34:58

suddenly fight very hard for them

1:35:01

to stay. And then it's like,

1:35:03

oh no, I haven't actually decided

1:35:05

yet. And now I've made a

1:35:07

lot of like promises to the

1:35:09

person who wanted to leave. And

1:35:11

I still kind of maybe want

1:35:13

to pick the other person. And

1:35:15

this really ends up screwing Mason.

1:35:17

Yeah, it usually does. Like this

1:35:19

is not a good way to

1:35:21

handle things. Although I understand that

1:35:23

you want to have as many

1:35:25

choices as possible. So on her

1:35:27

next day with Alex Madison tells

1:35:29

him about this conversation and she's

1:35:31

like, it made me realize that

1:35:33

I saw this other guy as

1:35:35

a friend because he's like, I'm

1:35:37

committed to you. I wasn't feeling

1:35:39

the right way in response to

1:35:41

that. So I don't think he's

1:35:43

the one. I'm sure that it's

1:35:45

you. And they're like, okay, let's

1:35:47

be boyfriend, girlfriend. And Meg hears

1:35:49

about this back in the quarters

1:35:51

and immediately is like, that means

1:35:53

that if Mason chooses me, I

1:35:55

will never know if I was

1:35:57

his first choice. So it's already

1:35:59

looking bad. But then Mason seems

1:36:01

like kind of clueless about who

1:36:03

Alex is dating, so in the

1:36:06

men's quarters it hasn't gotten weird

1:36:08

yet. Yeah, the men are being

1:36:10

like very intentional about not saying

1:36:12

anything to each other. So basically

1:36:14

until like the end. Yeah. So

1:36:16

Madison goes into her next day

1:36:18

with Mason and he like presents

1:36:20

her with a slice of cream

1:36:22

pie like referencing one of their

1:36:24

sex chats. And she's like, yeah,

1:36:26

it's over. I do

1:36:28

appreciate that Madison really sticks to

1:36:30

her guns. I do think she

1:36:33

tried to break up with him

1:36:35

before and failed. She did and

1:36:37

she tried to do it subtly

1:36:39

and she's like, that's not working.

1:36:42

Yeah, she did. She wanted him

1:36:44

to kind of do it for

1:36:46

her. She was like, I'll float

1:36:49

it and he'll be like, yeah,

1:36:51

Meg is the one for me,

1:36:53

but that's not what happened. So

1:36:55

he's like, well, I didn't mean

1:36:58

it when I said I was

1:37:00

committed to you. And I think

1:37:02

I came on too strong. I

1:37:04

don't know why I said that.

1:37:07

I've regretted it right away. And

1:37:09

she's like, well, you did say

1:37:11

that though, and now you're like

1:37:13

taking it back, and I don't

1:37:16

know. I could tell that you

1:37:18

were saying these things to both

1:37:20

of us, and that was kind

1:37:23

of a problem for me. And

1:37:25

she admits to him that she

1:37:27

did talk to Meg already, and

1:37:29

she's like, by trying to keep

1:37:32

two good things going at once,

1:37:34

you might have lost both of

1:37:36

them. I was like... Madison, I

1:37:38

don't know if you're the person

1:37:41

to lecture him on this. Because

1:37:43

you made up your mind like

1:37:45

one day before him. But Madison

1:37:48

and Alex end up talking about

1:37:50

this and it doesn't go well.

1:37:52

This was so weird. Alex, this

1:37:54

is another time Alex annoyed me.

1:37:57

Rose before hose baby. Yes, Alex

1:37:59

goes out of his way to

1:38:01

inject empathy. for Mason and seems

1:38:03

to have almost none for Madison.

1:38:06

Yeah, he's defending Mason to her.

1:38:08

Yeah. And she's like, I really

1:38:10

don't need that right now. Like

1:38:13

I wanted some empathy for me

1:38:15

from you. She's like, he told

1:38:17

me he was committed and then

1:38:19

he took it back. How would

1:38:22

you feel if I did that

1:38:24

to you? And he's like, huh,

1:38:26

I guess, but like, I just

1:38:28

see both sides and like, he's

1:38:31

valid. You're also valid. She's like,

1:38:33

I was hurt by him and

1:38:35

you're telling me that he was

1:38:38

valid. So that's not helpful. And

1:38:40

Alex is like, well, I'm sorry

1:38:42

he made you feel that way.

1:38:44

Oh. I will say this, I

1:38:47

am such an Alex. I am

1:38:49

always taking other people's sides when

1:38:51

Greg is upset. You know what?

1:38:53

I do it sometimes too to

1:38:56

Adam. So maybe I just am

1:38:58

like, I think it wouldn't have

1:39:00

bothered me if he hadn't also

1:39:03

been so unempathetic. to Madison leading

1:39:05

up to this. Like it started

1:39:07

to feel to me like, oh,

1:39:09

he just like can't ever be

1:39:12

in it with her. Right. And

1:39:14

that is really concerning to me.

1:39:16

It's not that I even think

1:39:18

that Mason did something so horrible.

1:39:21

It's like, because I don't actually.

1:39:23

I, but it concerns me like.

1:39:25

if Madison is trying to be

1:39:28

with Alex that he can't ever

1:39:30

seem to like be on her

1:39:32

side. The weight is off. Yeah,

1:39:34

he's always like, how will what

1:39:37

you're doing affect me or my

1:39:39