0:22

Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This

0:24

is Sam Harris. So

0:26

the reckoning has arrived. Donald

0:29

Trump has been reelected President of the

0:31

United States and it seems like

0:33

he's going to have both houses of Congress. Of

0:36

course we know he already has the Supreme Court. And

0:39

the question is what to make of all this?

0:42

Why did he win and why did the Democrats lose?

0:45

Well first, we should acknowledge that

0:47

this is the greatest comeback in American political

0:49

history. It's as if Nixon

0:51

got reelected to a second term after Watergate.

0:54

It's better than that. Or worse,

0:56

depending on what you think about Trump. Luckily

1:00

I hedged my bet here and I never said anything

1:02

too critical about the man. I've

1:04

always been very respectful of him and Elon

1:06

and the other innovators they have

1:08

around them. I mean let's be

1:10

honest, these guys just want to make America great again. Can't

1:13

you just give them a chance? All

1:16

kidding aside, I will let

1:18

you know when I receive my first audit from the

1:20

IRS. But what I

1:22

think is needed now is an honest assessment of

1:24

why Trump won. Because

1:26

it says a lot about our country that he did. It

1:29

says a lot about how divided we are. It

1:31

says a lot about the state of the media and

1:33

the effects of social media. But

1:36

above all, it says something that the Democratic

1:38

Party and our elite institutions need to hear.

1:41

Now obviously Trump's win

1:43

and Harris's loss were

1:45

determined by many factors. And

1:48

I think everyone's in danger of believing that their pet

1:50

issue explains everything that happened on

1:52

Tuesday. Now you could certainly

1:54

make the case that it was immigration and

1:57

the southern border. Or it

1:59

was inflation. and the cost of groceries. You

2:02

could even say it was the way Trump responded

2:04

to that first assassination attempt, which

2:06

among other things prompted Elon Musk to endorse

2:08

him within minutes. Or

2:11

it was Harris's weakness as a candidate and

2:13

the way the Democratic Party coronated her rather

2:15

than allow some competitive process to happen.

2:18

Or you could say that the blame lies with

2:21

Biden himself and his disastrous decision

2:23

to run for a second term. That

2:26

was pure hubris. And of course

2:28

this blame extends to all the people who covered for him

2:30

and lied to themselves or to the public

2:33

about his competence for over a year. Some

2:36

of this culpability fell on Harris herself. What

2:39

did she know about Biden and when did she know

2:41

it? She never had a good

2:43

answer for that question. Or

2:46

to come to one of my hobby horses, it

2:48

was her failure to have anything like a

2:50

sister soldier moment where she could put some

2:52

distance between her current self and the

2:54

Kamala Harris of 2019 who

2:56

seemed to be in lockstep with the far left of

2:58

the Democratic Party. The

3:00

truth of course is that all of

3:02

these things contributed and if one

3:05

or two of them had changed, we would

3:07

have had a different result. But

3:09

the Harris campaign and the Democratic

3:11

Party in the last hundred

3:13

days before the election weren't

3:15

in control of most of these

3:17

variables. They could

3:20

have messaged differently about all of them. I

3:22

think it would have been possible to talk about inflation

3:24

and immigration better than they did, but

3:26

their real failure in my view

3:29

was to not pivot to the political center

3:31

in a way that most people found credible.

3:34

So to return to my hobby horse, I

3:37

think there are some lessons that the Democrats really must

3:39

absorb from what is

3:41

undeniably a total political defeat.

3:45

They simply have to recognize that

3:47

several planks of their platform are

3:50

thoroughly rotten. Identity

3:52

politics is over. No

3:55

one wants it. Latinos and blacks

3:58

don't even want it. as

4:00

witnessed by the fact that they moved to Trump

4:02

in record numbers. Trump got

4:04

a majority of Latino men nationwide.

4:08

And in some counties he got a majority of

4:10

Latino men and women, even after

4:12

everything he has said about immigrants from Latin

4:14

America over the years. How

4:17

they're, quote, poisoning the blood of our people,

4:19

which is right out of Mein Kampf. A

4:22

comedian calls Puerto Rico a pile of garbage

4:24

at a Trump rally. And

4:26

the entire democratic machine and all

4:28

of liberal media seize

4:30

upon it like a nuclear bomb

4:32

has just vaporized an American city

4:35

and no one cared. Identity

4:38

politics is dead,

4:41

and we have to bury it. There's

4:43

one species of identity politics that

4:46

had an enormous effect on this election, and

4:49

most Democrats don't seem to realize it. Around

4:52

half a percent of American adults

4:54

identify as transgender or non-binary. That's

4:57

one in 200 people. And

4:59

yet the activism around this identity

5:02

has deranged our politics for as long

5:04

as Trump has been in politics. One

5:08

lesson I would be quick to draw

5:10

from this election is that Americans aren't

5:12

really in to seeing biological men

5:15

punch women in the face at the Olympics.

5:19

And if that sounds like transphobia to

5:21

you, you're the

5:23

problem. Political

5:25

equality, which we should want

5:28

for everyone, does not

5:30

mean that trans women are

5:33

women. Trans women are people

5:35

and should have all the political freedom

5:37

of people. But to say that

5:40

they are women and that making

5:42

any distinction between them and biological women

5:45

for any purpose is a

5:47

thought crime and an act of bigotry, that

5:50

is the precept of a new religion,

5:53

and it's a religion that most Americans

5:55

want nothing to do with. I

5:58

want to be very clear about that. this, I

6:01

have no doubt that there are

6:03

real cases of gender dysphoria. And

6:06

for those people, we

6:08

should want to give them all the

6:10

help they need to feel comfortable in

6:12

their own bodies and in

6:14

society. How we think

6:17

about this, how we understand it scientifically, all

6:19

of that is still in flux.

6:22

But there are four-year-olds who

6:25

apropos of nothing will

6:28

claim to be in the wrong body. You

6:30

know, they're born a boy, but they insist

6:32

that they're really girls, and

6:34

they never waver from this. And

6:37

it's pretty obvious in those cases that

6:40

something is going on neurologically,

6:42

hormonally, at the

6:45

core of their being that is

6:47

not a matter of them having been influenced

6:49

by the culture. But

6:51

conversely, there now seem to be

6:53

countless examples where the

6:56

possibility of social contagion is

6:58

obvious. We're due to the

7:00

success of trans activists in changing

7:03

institutions. These kids

7:05

are effectively in a cult being

7:08

brainwashed by a new orthodoxy.

7:11

These are radically different cases, and

7:14

we should not be bullied into

7:16

considering them to be the same.

7:19

I've spoken to many Democrats in

7:21

recent years and over the course

7:23

of this election, and a shocking

7:25

percentage of them imagine that all

7:27

the controversy about trans rights and

7:30

gender identity in kids is

7:32

just right-wing bigotry and

7:34

a non-issue politically. Whereas

7:37

it is obvious that for millions

7:39

of Americans, it might as

7:41

well have been the only issue in this election.

7:44

Not because they are transphobic

7:46

assholes, but because they simply

7:49

do not accept the new metaphysics and

7:51

even new biology mandated by

7:53

trans activists and the institutions that they have successfully

7:55

bullied and captured. And it's a matter of fact

7:58

that we should be able to do this. It's

8:00

important to say that not all trans people agree

8:02

with what these activists say and do. Having

8:05

the thought police suddenly proscribed the use

8:07

of the term woman and

8:10

demanding that we speak instead of

8:12

birthing person or menstruators or people

8:15

with ovaries or some other

8:17

Orwellian construction designed to test everyone's

8:19

patience and sanity, the

8:21

sight of people being deplatformed on

8:23

social media or fired from universities

8:26

for merely stating that there are

8:28

two biological sexes, I

8:30

actually know a professor who lost

8:32

her job at Harvard over this. Witnessing

8:35

an epidemic of gender confusion spread

8:37

through our schools, when

8:40

people with their own eyes could see

8:42

that this was a social contagion being

8:44

encouraged by the schools themselves, the

8:47

ultimate fruition of which in many

8:49

cases is irreversible medical procedures, we've

8:52

got an epidemic of teenage

8:54

girls wanting double mastectomies and

8:56

some are actually getting them based

8:59

on ideas being spread on TikTok

9:01

and any parent who resists this

9:03

trend gets demonized and under certain

9:06

conditions could lose custody of their

9:08

kids, well

9:10

congratulations Democrats, you

9:12

have found the most annoying thing in

9:15

the fucking galaxy and hung it around

9:17

your necks. I

9:19

know people who haven't been touched by this

9:21

issue personally for whom it was the

9:23

only issue that decided their vote, in

9:26

fact it is the issue that fully

9:28

radicalized Elon, and he's spoken about this

9:30

at length, do you think

9:32

Elon continuously messaging to 200 million

9:35

people on X and going

9:37

to Trump's rallies and donating

9:39

over a hundred million dollars to the campaign

9:42

and supporting him on podcasts and

9:44

doing everything else in his power to get Trump

9:46

elected might have accounted for a

9:48

few votes? Honestly

9:50

I think a doctoral dissertation and

9:53

perhaps several could be

9:55

written on how trans activism completely

9:58

destroyed democratic politics. politics,

10:00

without most Democrats knowing.

10:05

Of course, people will be doing an

10:07

autopsy on this election for quite some

10:09

time, but there is

10:11

some polling already

10:14

that suggests that cultural issues

10:16

in general, and this issue

10:18

in particular, were the greatest

10:20

drivers of swing voters turning to Trump.

10:23

For the purpose of this poll, a swing voter is

10:26

defined as those who are undecided

10:28

in the presidential race, or who

10:30

have changed their voting preference since 2020, voting Democrat

10:34

in one election and Republican in the other, or

10:36

they were independents, who had either

10:38

indicated that they split their votes between Democrats

10:40

and Republicans, or who

10:42

hold either a favorable or unfavorable view

10:45

of both Trump and Harris. So

10:47

these were the people whose votes were in play.

10:50

And according to this

10:52

poll over at blueprint2024.com,

10:55

titled Why America Chose Trump,

10:57

Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic

10:59

Brand, when you segment the

11:01

respondents in this way, for these

11:04

swing voters, the strongest predictor

11:06

of a vote for Trump was

11:08

their response to the following

11:11

statement. Kamala Harris

11:13

has focused more on cultural

11:15

issues like transgender issues, rather

11:17

than helping the middle class. So

11:20

transgender issues are flagged as

11:22

the example of progressive

11:25

politics in the Democratic Party. Now,

11:28

you might want to say that neither

11:30

Harris nor Biden campaigned as

11:32

a vocal trans activist, and

11:35

that's true. But

11:38

honestly, if you wanted to account

11:40

for Harris's loss and Trump's win

11:42

in the briefest possible

11:45

space, and also

11:47

indicate the hold that the

11:49

far left has had over

11:52

Democratic politics and the

11:54

Biden administration, I think it

11:56

would be hard to do better than to

11:58

juxtapose the following statement. two

12:00

facts. On his

12:02

first day in office, President Biden

12:05

signed an executive order ensuring

12:08

that trans girls could

12:10

have access to girls restrooms,

12:12

locker rooms, and girls

12:14

sports. It took him

12:17

two and a half years to

12:19

sign an executive order addressing the

12:21

chaos at the southern border. Why

12:24

did he wait so long? Because the

12:26

far left has always said

12:28

that a concern about the southern border

12:30

is racist. What

12:34

more needs to be said about the

12:36

degree to which the Democratic Party and

12:38

the Biden administration lost

12:40

touch with the will of the

12:42

American people? As

12:45

for the topic of trans rights and

12:48

gender dysphoria, what Harris needed

12:50

to do at a minimum is

12:53

express her understanding that this

12:55

issue is complex. That

12:58

there's a legitimate concern about social

13:00

contagion. That in certain cases there's

13:03

a conflict between giving trans

13:05

women and girls everything they

13:07

want and protecting

13:09

the rights of biological

13:11

women and girls. And

13:13

the jury is still out on

13:15

many questions here. And policy

13:17

in Europe has changed

13:20

radically in recent years for

13:22

understandable reasons. Right? This topic

13:26

is a total mess ethically

13:29

and politically. And

13:31

the orthodoxy among Democrats and in

13:33

the elite institutions that they have

13:35

influenced is that the

13:38

trans activist line is

13:40

the only ethical line to

13:42

take. But the truth

13:44

is every shibboleth that came out

13:46

of the far left in recent years contains

13:49

within it the same recipe for

13:51

the destruction of democratic politics. Each

13:54

is like an evil hologram.

13:56

We take the term Latin X. That

14:00

for? Only 3% of

14:02

Latinos are in favor of this silly

14:04

rebranding of their ethnicity. Again,

14:07

Trump did better among Latinos

14:09

than any Republican in memory.

14:12

Do you think it was because there wasn't enough

14:14

identity politics rammed down their throats from the left?

14:16

Do you think they just need to see some

14:18

more white people admonished for the sin of cultural

14:20

appropriation? You think another lecture about

14:23

sensitive Halloween costumes might do the trick?

14:26

Much of Democratic politics has

14:28

become a bad SNL sketch. Democrats

14:31

simply have to understand that this is one

14:34

of the reasons that we're getting four more

14:36

years of Donald Trump. Four

14:38

more years of this man holding more

14:40

power and responsibility than any person on

14:42

Earth. If it sounds

14:44

like I'm blaming far-left activists for this, along

14:47

with everyone who bent the knee to them,

14:50

I am. Sure, inflation

14:52

didn't help, but the Harris

14:54

campaign and the Democratic Party couldn't

14:57

change the price of groceries. They

15:00

could control whether the Vice President

15:02

gave a rational accounting of why

15:04

she no longer supports taxpayer-funded gender

15:06

reassignment surgeries for undocumented immigrants in

15:09

detention. You know how many ads

15:11

the Trump campaign ran on that

15:13

issue? In some markets, it

15:15

was a third of their ad spend. She's

15:18

for they, them. He's for

15:20

you. Someone find me

15:23

the video where Harris made any sense

15:25

at all on this topic. And

15:28

the same can be said for all the other cultural

15:30

issues that have been poisoned by the far left. Literally

15:33

everyone I know who voted

15:36

for Trump, and this includes

15:38

some extraordinarily influential people, like

15:40

Elon, literally everyone

15:43

was focused on cultural issues. It

15:46

wasn't inflation for them. It

15:48

was trans activism and the

15:50

insanity at the southern border, and

15:53

DEI policies, and

15:55

homelessness and crime in our cities, and

15:57

the unwillingness of Democratic is

16:00

to do anything about it. The fact

16:02

that when you go into a CVS and you

16:04

need to call a locksmith to liberate some razor

16:06

blades and Tylenol, that is

16:08

an absolute disgrace. It

16:11

is a clear degradation of the quality of

16:13

life in American cities. And

16:15

these things mattered on Tuesday when people went

16:17

to the polls. And most

16:19

of our largest cities are run by Democratic mayors,

16:22

at least two thirds of the top 100. I

16:25

think it's a higher percentage of the top 20. What

16:28

are the Democrats doing about

16:30

homelessness? The Democratic

16:32

Party largely owns this problem.

16:35

And for years, Democrats have been acting like the

16:38

answer to it is for everyone just to become

16:40

more tolerant. They won't police

16:42

the streets, but they'll police the

16:44

language. These people are

16:46

not homeless, they're unhoused. Okay,

16:49

great. Anyone who lives in

16:51

a city, who has to

16:53

shepherd their kids past some raving lunatic

16:55

standing outside the supermarket, or

16:57

who knows that there are whole sections of town that

16:59

he shouldn't even set foot in because

17:02

they look like the third act of a zombie movie,

17:04

many of these people are

17:07

done with your politics. And

17:09

so are millions who don't live in big cities,

17:12

but visit them, or just see the images

17:14

on social media. No one

17:16

wants to live like this. This

17:18

is the sort of issue that was easily

17:20

and justifiably weaponized against

17:22

Democrats in this election. Or

17:25

take the Hamas supporters on our college campuses.

17:28

You don't have to be Jewish to

17:31

see how shameful this is. This

17:34

is an assault not just on Jews and

17:36

Israel, but on Western civilization.

17:39

Or let's just call it what it is, real

17:41

civilization. If the

17:43

Democratic Party can't figure

17:45

out that civilization needs to

17:47

be defended from barbarism, what

17:50

do you expect is going to happen in a presidential election?

17:54

Yes, Biden and Harris were not

17:56

terrible on this issue, but

17:58

they talked out of both sides. at their mouths. They

18:01

bent over backwards to not

18:04

offend the people who were totally

18:06

confused in the Democratic Party

18:08

about what happened on October 7th and

18:11

about the problem of Islamism and

18:13

Jihadism worldwide who think in terms

18:15

of Islamophobia rather than really

18:17

protecting human rights. Here's

18:20

one clue on the path back to sanity

18:22

on this issue, which you may have missed.

18:25

The hijab is not a symbol

18:27

of female empowerment. Most

18:30

of the women throughout the world who wear the veil

18:32

are forced to by men who

18:35

will beat the shit out of them if they don't.

18:38

It might be time to figure this

18:40

out if you actually care or want

18:42

to credibly pretend to care about

18:44

the rights of women on planet

18:46

Earth. There

18:49

is simply no question that democratic moral

18:51

confusion on many of these issues cost

18:54

Harris millions of votes. So

18:57

that's the reckoning that has to happen now

18:59

among Democrats. And I hope

19:01

it does. But the concern

19:03

now is that four more years of

19:05

Trump and Trumpism will prevent it. Trump

19:08

is such a provocation to the left

19:11

and to liberal institutions that

19:13

Democrats could find themselves doubling down on all

19:15

their delusions. Needless to say,

19:17

this will be exactly what Trump and the MAGA

19:20

cult want, because it will

19:22

be politically suicidal. If

19:24

you are a Democrat who voted for Harris,

19:27

please absorb this. You

19:30

lost more people of color than

19:32

you ever have in a presidential

19:35

election while running

19:37

against Archie Bunker. Worse,

19:40

Trump is actually supported by

19:42

real racists and white supremacists.

19:45

And that still wasn't enough of a problem.

19:48

Who do you think your identity politics is

19:51

for? You're really going

19:53

to keep celebrating pornographers of racial

19:55

grievance like Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ibram

19:57

X. Kendi? Should we just give

19:59

another Pulitzer to the 1619 Project

20:01

and congratulate ourselves. You

20:04

really think racism is

20:07

the problem in America. And

20:09

what we saw this week was just a

20:11

victory for white male identity politics. That's

20:14

how you're gonna explain Trump's popularity at this

20:16

point. Trump

20:18

gained support from

20:21

every racial group except

20:23

white people, right?

20:26

Or he lost one percentage point when

20:28

compared to 2020. You're

20:30

going to chalk that up to

20:32

racism. We're about five

20:34

days out from the election when I'm recording this. And

20:38

I'm still hearing prominent Democrats

20:40

say things like, America

20:42

was never going to elect a black

20:45

woman for president in the year 2024. That's

20:48

not the issue. And if you keep

20:50

this up, you're

20:52

gonna get president Candace fucking Owens

20:55

someday, wouldn't that be

20:58

a perfect rejoinder to this stupidity? I

21:02

hope it's obvious from everything I've

21:04

said and written for years and

21:06

from the first half of this podcast that

21:09

I understand the frustration and

21:12

even revulsion that people feel for

21:14

the far left and for

21:16

the progressive orthodoxy that has infected

21:18

our institutions for the

21:20

sincerestness and thought policing and

21:23

the gaslighting and the line. I

21:26

understand the degree to which our institutions

21:29

have been bent by this. And

21:32

anyone who's followed my work from the beginning

21:35

knows that I've been outraged by this encroaching moral

21:37

blindness for at least 20 years, long

21:40

before our wokeness or black

21:42

lives matter or trans activism

21:45

or defund the police. In

21:47

the years after September 11th, 2001, when

21:51

I began to focus on the problem of

21:53

Islamism and jihadism, I was

21:55

complaining about just this. I

21:58

could see that anyone who described these

22:00

problems too honestly would

22:03

get tarred as a racist, as though

22:05

that made any sense. I saw how

22:07

someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali was

22:09

treated like an untouchable by left-wing

22:11

think tanks and liberal writers. How

22:14

even Nicholas Kristof at the New York Times,

22:17

whose whole shtick was to show his concern

22:19

about the rights of women in the developing

22:21

world, even he felt

22:23

obliged to condemn Ayaan as

22:26

an Islamophobe. This

22:28

is a woman who is quite literally being

22:30

hunted by Muslim theocrats in one

22:32

of the most cosmopolitan societies we have,

22:35

modern Holland. For years,

22:37

I witnessed journalists obfuscate

22:39

about the threat of Islamic

22:42

extremism. Someone was found

22:44

just stabbing people in a European city

22:46

or mowing them down with

22:48

his car, shouting, Allahu

22:50

Akbar, and it would be

22:52

reported that the motive for the crime was

22:54

still mysterious. And the perpetrator

22:56

would be described at most as an immigrant. Sometimes

23:00

every detail like this was

23:02

suppressed and you'd have no idea what

23:04

happened, just random mass murder. Needless

23:07

to say, this kind of politically

23:09

correct dishonesty has since spread to

23:12

many other topics, as

23:14

the left-wing hatred of Western

23:16

civilization and capitalism and

23:18

white people has distorted everything

23:20

left of center. I

23:24

understand how infuriating this

23:26

is, especially on an issue

23:28

that touches your life directly. I

23:31

know what it's like to read an article in the New York Times

23:34

and to spot obvious lies,

23:37

but the alternative to

23:39

the failure of journalism simply

23:41

isn't the fire hose

23:43

of lies and half-truths and

23:45

conspiracy theories that you find on

23:47

X. And it's

23:50

not the calculated and ever-present distortion

23:52

you find in right-wing news channels

23:55

that never had any journalistic standards to

23:57

violate in the first place. simply

24:00

no alternative to

24:02

healthy institutions that maintain

24:05

their credibility even

24:07

when they make mistakes by

24:09

reliably correcting their errors. And

24:12

when they fall short of this standard, they

24:14

can be pressured to do better because

24:17

they have intellectual and moral

24:19

scruples. It's an imperfect

24:21

process, but it's the best we've

24:24

got. Elon Musk

24:26

never corrects his errors. Tucker

24:29

Carlson never corrects

24:31

his errors. Donald

24:34

Trump never makes errors because

24:36

he never stops lying. He's

24:39

playing tennis without the net, and

24:41

his fans love it. Putting

24:44

your faith in deranged

24:47

personalities isn't a

24:49

viable alternative to having truly

24:51

liberal institutions that you

24:53

can trust and that can be

24:56

obliged to earn your trust back when

24:58

they fail. I

25:00

understand how satisfying it is to

25:03

find a new bully to beat

25:05

up the other bullies who've been

25:07

making you miserable. But

25:10

the problem is, this new bully

25:12

is worse. This

25:14

new bully has no principles. This

25:16

new bully has no journalistic

25:18

or academic or scientific conscience

25:20

to appeal to. Whatever

25:23

might be wrong with a person like

25:25

Anthony Fauci or Francis Collins or

25:27

any of the other doctors who have been

25:29

demonized right of center for their approach to

25:32

setting COVID policy, at least

25:34

they are real doctors and

25:37

scientists who have some professional

25:39

scruples and reputations to protect

25:42

among people who actually know something

25:44

about medical science. RFK

25:47

Jr. has none of that.

25:49

He's just a cowboy taking shots at

25:52

the establishment. The

25:54

Joe Rogan Podcast is not

25:56

a substitute for The Wall Street

25:58

Journal or The Kennedy School. school at Harvard.

26:01

It is simply not progress to

26:04

have a comedian like Dave Smith,

26:06

who's apparently done his own research,

26:09

interviewed about the history of the Middle East

26:11

or the war in Ukraine like

26:13

he's the next Henry Kissinger. All

26:16

of this free access to information

26:19

is making us dumber. Of

26:22

course, I blame Trump and social

26:25

media for how divisive our politics

26:27

have become. Trump

26:29

is what you get when 51% of a

26:31

society just declares bankruptcy on core

26:33

moral values and political principles

26:36

and journalistic ethics and

26:38

necessary institutions. There is

26:41

no real defense of

26:43

Trump and Trumpism. All

26:45

his defenders act like his critics just don't

26:47

like the man's style. He's just

26:49

too crass or bombastic. Or

26:51

they think we're worried about hypothetical things that

26:54

might never happen. We're worried

26:56

he might become a fascist in the

26:58

future, and needless to say these concerns

27:00

are telltale signs of Trump derangement syndrome.

27:03

But none of that is true. The

27:06

problem with Trump isn't his

27:08

style, and it's not merely what

27:10

might happen in the future. The

27:12

problem is what has already happened. It's

27:15

the damage that Trump has already caused

27:17

to our democracy. And

27:19

it's the fact that he has turned the Republican

27:21

Party into a personality cult that

27:24

celebrates all this damage as a sign

27:26

of progress. For instance, while many of

27:28

us really wanted Kamala Harris to win

27:30

on Tuesday, we are also breathing a

27:33

sigh of relief that she didn't win

27:35

by a very narrow margin. Why

27:38

are we relieved about this? Because

27:41

Trump and Elon and

27:43

several other high-profile freaks

27:46

spread so many lies and

27:48

conspiracy theories about election fraud

27:51

that they effectively rigged our

27:53

society to explode. On

27:56

the day of the vote, Trump

27:58

and Elon were both spreading lies. about

28:00

a terrible fraud being perpetrated in Pennsylvania.

28:04

Now that Trump won, where's

28:06

the concern about fraud? It

28:08

just evaporated. I guess Elon

28:10

looked into it and our voting machines are fine

28:12

now, right? Pay

28:14

attention to what happened here. These

28:17

guys imposed a serious risk of

28:19

injury on our whole society

28:22

for purely selfish reasons. And

28:24

the fact that we're now relieved to have

28:26

avoided a civil war is

28:29

itself an injury to our democracy

28:32

and to our social order. Is

28:35

this too ethereal a point to

28:37

understand? If someone rigs

28:39

your house to explode and

28:41

the bomb just happens to not go off for

28:44

reasons that they didn't actually control,

28:47

it seems to me that they don't get to say, well,

28:50

no harm, no foul. Let's just move on.

28:53

Let's agree to disagree about what happened here. No,

28:57

you put our whole democracy at

28:59

risk with your lies. You

29:02

knowingly raised the temperature and the

29:04

pressure on your side of the

29:06

electorate, again, with

29:08

lies and ran the

29:10

risk of producing serious violence if

29:13

things had gone the other way. I

29:15

mean, honestly, there was a moment on Tuesday night when

29:18

the tide had fully turned against Harris, when

29:20

the needle over the New York Times website was giving

29:22

Trump an 89% probability of winning, but

29:26

the blue wall states had not been decided. It

29:29

was still possible at that point for Harris to

29:31

win. One in 10 chance

29:33

events happen all the time. But

29:35

I remember thinking that I hope she doesn't

29:37

win now, because at

29:40

that point, given the optics, given

29:42

that Republicans really thought they had it in

29:44

the bag and that even

29:47

Democrats seem to think that and

29:49

thought that publicly in plain view

29:51

of everyone on television and social

29:53

media, if Harris's luck

29:55

had turned at that point and

29:57

she had won, we could have had a civil

29:59

war. 4, given the degree

30:02

to which conspiracy thinking had

30:04

been weaponized by Trump and

30:06

his enablers. Again, even

30:08

on election day itself, these

30:11

lies had been spread

30:13

consciously, deliberately. Elon

30:15

did this personally to hundreds

30:18

of millions of people on the social

30:20

media platform that he owns. Given

30:23

all of that, honestly, I

30:25

think it simply wasn't safe for Harris to

30:27

win a free and fair election at that

30:29

point. That is a

30:31

totally crazy thought to have had on election

30:35

night in America in the

30:37

year 2024. Where

30:40

do we send the bill for the

30:42

damage that has been done to

30:44

our country? Half

30:47

of our society just elected

30:49

a man to the presidency who

30:51

they know would not

30:53

have accepted the results of the election had

30:55

he lost. As President Harris

30:58

conceded the next day, as

31:00

everyone knew she would, there is

31:02

probably no one who supported Trump

31:05

who thinks that he would have done what

31:08

they fully expected Harris to

31:10

do, which is to protect

31:12

the most important norm of our democracy,

31:14

the very thing that makes it possible,

31:17

the peaceful transfer of power. And

31:19

the astonishing thing is

31:21

that Trump supporters are totally okay

31:24

with this asymmetry. They expected

31:26

Harris to concede and would have demanded

31:28

that she do it, and

31:31

yet they know Trump wouldn't have conceded

31:33

if he lost, understanding

31:35

all the risk this would have

31:37

posed to our social fabric. And

31:40

they are fine with that. That

31:43

is already the ruination of

31:45

our politics. That

31:48

is what the path to fascism looks

31:50

like. We are already on

31:52

it. There is nothing

31:54

hypothetical about this. Bad

31:57

things have already happened. true

32:01

whatever happens over the next four

32:03

years. It's like in

32:05

the film The Exorcist. If

32:07

your kid has stigmata and is

32:09

vomiting green goo in all directions and

32:12

is moving furniture with her mind, you

32:15

should admit that you have a

32:17

problem. It shouldn't require Satan himself

32:20

to make an appearance. What

32:23

is so frustrating about Trump supporters

32:25

is that they refuse to acknowledge any of this.

32:28

They simply refuse to acknowledge

32:31

how pathological our situation is

32:34

and how pathological Trump himself has

32:36

made it. Whatever story

32:38

you have in your head about all the

32:41

good Trump might do in a second term,

32:43

he's a disruptor. He's got

32:46

all the tech bros in there with him. He's

32:48

just crazy enough to scare our enemies. Or

32:51

he's just a bullshitter and he won't do half of what he claims

32:53

he'll do so don't worry about it. Whatever

32:55

story you're telling yourself, here

32:57

is what is true now. We

33:00

are returning a man to the Oval Office

33:03

who as a sitting president would

33:05

not commit to a peaceful transfer of power and

33:08

who tried to steal the 2020 election all

33:12

the while claiming it was being stolen

33:14

from him. And he has lied about

33:16

this ever since, knowing

33:18

that these lies stand as

33:21

a continuous provocation to

33:23

violence. And there are court

33:25

cases pending seeking to hold him

33:27

accountable for all of this. Cases

33:29

which now that he'll be in control of the

33:31

Justice Department will be dismissed. We're

33:34

putting Trump back in power when

33:37

we know that he can't honestly

33:39

discharge his oath of office because

33:41

he has no respect for the Constitution. And

33:43

half of our society is not only willing to

33:46

run this risk, they are

33:48

positively jubilant about it. At

33:50

a minimum, you should acknowledge

33:53

that these events have seriously injured

33:55

our politics. Again, whatever

33:57

happens over the next four years. And

34:01

I have something that I really must say to Joe

34:03

Rogan and the other podcasters who

34:05

interviewed Trump. You

34:08

can't have it both ways. You

34:10

don't get to say that this was the podcast

34:12

election and that these long-form

34:14

conversations are incredibly important for people to

34:17

hear so that they can make up

34:19

their mind about who to vote for and

34:21

then take no journalistic responsibility

34:23

whatsoever to get your facts

34:25

straight or to expose obvious

34:27

lies when you're talking to the most

34:29

prolific liar on earth. You

34:32

don't get to spout endless conspiracy

34:34

theories about how our election system

34:36

is dangerously broken and

34:38

vulnerable to fraud. And then

34:40

when your candidate wins, say, oh,

34:43

well, Trump's victory was just too big for them to

34:45

rig the election. No. How

34:48

about realizing that there was nothing significantly

34:50

wrong with our election system in the

34:52

first place and that all

34:54

these concerns about fraud were

34:56

lies coming from your

34:58

candidate and his surrogates. And

35:01

they were telling these lies in

35:03

preparation for not accepting the results

35:05

of the election had he lost.

35:08

And you let your platform be used

35:10

for that purpose by people who were

35:12

willing to shatter our politics and even

35:15

risk provoking a civil war out

35:17

of personal self-interest. Every

35:20

podcaster who interviewed Trump managed

35:22

to make it seem like all the bad things that have

35:24

ever been said about him were the result

35:26

of some left-wing elite media

35:28

conspiracy. To interview

35:30

Trump or his

35:32

surrogates responsibly would have

35:35

required that you put them on the

35:37

spot for any number of odious things

35:39

he has said and done and for things

35:41

he said he intends to do in his second

35:43

term, all of which are

35:45

well-documented and many of which

35:47

should be totally disqualifying in a presidential candidate.

35:50

It's not enough to just turn on the

35:52

microphones and have a conversation. And

35:55

it doesn't matter that it's three hours long.

35:57

If all you're going to do is launder

35:59

the man's lies... by ignoring them

36:01

in the interests of maintaining good vibes.

36:04

There is a complacency and

36:06

an amorality to the way you

36:08

approach this that was actively harmful.

36:12

And all you people with Twitter files

36:14

derangement syndrome, just how fair

36:16

and balanced are things over there at X

36:18

now? Is it the bastion of

36:21

free speech you were hoping for? You

36:23

think having a platform run by a manic

36:25

billionaire who doesn't trust any of his own

36:27

moderators to vet information so he fires them,

36:30

but trusts random conspiracists and lunatics

36:32

so he personally amplifies their lives

36:34

to 200 million followers?

36:37

You think this is progress? Do

36:41

you think you'd feel the same way if a

36:43

left-wing billionaire was boosting activist garbage

36:45

to his 200 million followers every

36:47

hour on the hour? And

36:51

perhaps a note to journalists

36:53

and scientists and writers and

36:56

people with actual reputations to protect

36:59

and lives to live? None

37:01

of this gets any better until you all decide to leave

37:03

X. You know

37:05

it's a cesspool. You know

37:07

it's harming our society. Most

37:10

of you know it's harming your lives personally.

37:13

By merely being there and making it seem

37:15

like everyone has to be there because everyone

37:17

is there, you are helping

37:19

to build the tool that is making

37:22

fact-based conversation impossible. Our

37:24

society is being riven

37:26

by lies and

37:29

social media and X in particular is

37:31

largely responsible for this. Of

37:34

course I get that some breaking

37:37

news happens there first and

37:39

some news might only happen there, but

37:43

if that's a feature of social media

37:45

that we simply must conserve, well then

37:47

we have to instantiate it elsewhere, not

37:50

on a platform, owned and

37:53

run and entirely dominated

37:55

by a meme junkie who

37:58

lost all of his principles years

38:00

ago. Once

38:02

again, everything I've been talking about

38:05

and complaining about has already happened.

38:09

But looking forward, of

38:11

course there are reasons to be worried

38:13

about a second Trump term. Is RFK

38:15

Jr. really going to be setting medical

38:17

policy for the country? That

38:19

should make your head explode. Is

38:22

Trump going to weaken our international alliances? Will

38:25

he pull us out of NATO? If we

38:27

have fewer biological men in women's sports,

38:29

are we also going to have fewer

38:31

democracies? Is that a fair trade?

38:34

Is Trump going to call the MyPillow guy

38:36

and the Pizzagate dummies for advice on how

38:38

to run the world? Or

38:41

will he suddenly pivot and surround

38:43

himself with competent ethical advisors? Well,

38:46

we'll have to wait and see. Needless

38:48

to say, I will respond to whatever happens

38:51

on this podcast, but

38:53

I'm not going to spend the next four years obsessing

38:56

about Donald Trump. As

38:58

I said before, I consider him one of

39:01

the greatest opportunity costs for humanity to appear

39:03

in my lifetime. The

39:05

fact that we've had to think about this man continuously

39:07

for a decade is

39:10

just an incredible piece of bad luck. So

39:14

I'm going to do my best to

39:16

pick my moments here. I'm sure

39:18

there will be many over

39:20

the next four years, but I

39:22

am just not willing to give more of

39:24

my time to politics than is absolutely necessary.

39:28

And I will be sure to tell you when I receive

39:30

that first IRS audit. Thanks

39:32

for listening. you