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call 1 -800 gambler. Hey

1:19

guys Hota Copy here today we have something

1:21

special for you in the spirit

1:23

of the holiday season and all the

1:25

time we spend sharing meals and

1:27

laughs and memories with loved ones. memories

1:29

would like to share something with you.

1:31

It's an episode It's an episode of Your kitchen.

1:34

Kitchen. podcast is all about cuisine and

1:36

culture and the meals and memories

1:38

that make us who we are. who we

1:40

are. Each episode begins with one yet profound

1:42

request. Tell me Tell me about your

1:44

mama's kitchen. And from there, beautiful

1:46

stories unfold. unfold. this episode of

1:48

Your your Kitchen, host Michelle Norris is

1:50

joined by a very special guest

1:52

guest dear friend, friend Mr. Al Roker. He

1:55

He shares his holiday traditions, new

1:57

and old, plus a very special

1:59

family recipe. I know know you'll love this

2:01

conversation as much as I do. as

2:05

much as I do. You

2:07

didn't have a lot of

2:09

money, but you shared

2:12

You didn't have a lot of money, but

2:14

you shared yourself through

2:16

food. If tragedy befell

2:18

one of your neighbors, a

2:21

there was a corning -ware dish

2:23

of something that

2:25

went to that neighbor.

2:28

neighbor. There was always

2:30

an opportunity to bring

2:32

something to somebody, whether it

2:34

was if one of the neighborhood

2:36

kids was sick, was sick, played

2:38

something like that. that. Welcome

2:43

to Your Mama's Kitchen, the

2:45

podcast that explores how we're shaped

2:47

as adults by the the we

2:49

grew up in as kids. I'm

2:51

I'm Michelle Norris. to Today I

2:53

spoke to someone whose name

2:55

is synonymous with the Thanksgiving for

2:57

for American families, The the television

2:59

legend Al Roker. you've If you've ever

3:01

tuned in to watch the Macy's

3:03

Thanksgiving Day Parade, you've you've probably witnessed

3:05

his radiating personality and infectious

3:07

smile smile. he ushers in the

3:09

next big float or the big marching band. He's

3:11

been on the air the 40 years predicting

3:13

the weather weather on NBC's today show winning 14 the

3:16

and earning the nickname He's also created a

3:18

He's also created a bit of

3:20

a food empire of his own,

3:22

hosting special cooking segments, authoring several

3:24

cookbooks, and he's even hosted his

3:26

own podcast called Cooking Up Storm with

3:28

with El Roker. All that is to

3:30

say, has he has never been shy

3:32

about his skills in the kitchen

3:34

and on the grill. And in

3:36

this episode, you'll also hear some

3:38

of his tips about how to

3:40

make tips about how to make the perfect

3:42

waffle. Now, before he became the

3:44

Now before he became the charismatic

3:46

TV personality we all know

3:48

and love, was a shy, was a

3:50

shy, bespectacled kid obsessed with comics

3:53

and audio equipment. this In this

3:55

conversation, reached we reach back to

3:57

Elle's childhood in Queens outside

3:59

New York City. City. hear about

4:01

how his mama cooked for a

4:03

big family on a tight budget

4:05

out of a tiny kitchen and

4:07

how her recipe for Jamaican oxtail

4:09

stew with dumplings still makes L.

4:11

Roker swoon. And since he's hosted

4:13

the biggest televised Thanksgiving event every

4:15

year since 1995, we also hear

4:17

about what the holiday means to

4:20

him, especially after he had to

4:22

set out his first parade in

4:24

decades because of a health scare.

4:26

So in this episode, a dose

4:28

of gratitude. layered with a little

4:30

nostalgia and served up with a

4:32

lot of laughter. El

4:38

Roker, I'm so glad that you were

4:40

with us. You spent a lot of

4:42

time thinking about food through the work

4:44

that you do at the Today Show.

4:46

We see you cook. I watch you

4:48

today making tacos. And through your own

4:50

adventures, your show, your podcast, Cooking Up

4:52

a Storm with El Roker, your cookbooks,

4:54

including the big bad book of barbecue,

4:56

and your hassle-free holiday cookbooks. So you

4:59

know your way around a kitchen. Well, I

5:01

do like food. I'm married to

5:03

Deborah Roberts of ABC News, co-anchor

5:05

of 2020, and we are obviously

5:07

two different people, but when it

5:09

comes to food, we really are

5:11

two different people. I mean, if

5:13

she could subsist on air and

5:15

water, I think she would be

5:18

fine. Really? I am just the

5:20

opposite. focus of

5:22

this podcast and so I'm glad that

5:24

you bring that enthusiasm and that outlook

5:26

to this because I'm right there with

5:28

you but I'm wondering what is your

5:30

favorite meal that was produced in your

5:32

mom's kitchen and which house was it

5:35

in? Was it in the house that

5:37

you were living in when you were

5:39

born or the house you moved in

5:41

to later on? It's interesting you said

5:43

because before we had a house we

5:45

lived in a couple of different projects

5:47

and I don't really remember my

5:50

mother's cooking because I was maybe

5:52

I think we moved into our

5:54

house when I was eight and

5:57

before that it was you know

5:59

fairly rudimentary house we lived in,

6:01

that's where I remember holiday meals

6:03

and people coming over and before

6:05

that it was just kind of

6:07

a blur. And what I remember

6:09

most, I mean besides the food,

6:12

and I don't know what the

6:14

physical layout of your kitchen is

6:16

as opposed to your mother's kitchen,

6:18

my mother's kitchen, we had one

6:20

oven, there was a four burner

6:22

cooktop. I think a magic chef

6:24

cooktop. And yet she could turn

6:27

out for 12 people a meal

6:29

that included baked goods, a turkey

6:31

and or a ham, and sides

6:33

all at the same time. And

6:35

you know, I'm fortunate, I'm blessed,

6:37

you know, I've got a great

6:39

kitchen, I've got a six burner

6:42

stove, a dual oven, you know,

6:44

a warming drawer, and I still

6:46

struggle to get it all out

6:48

at once. And probably a microwave

6:50

and an air fryer fryer too.

6:54

I draw the line at the air

6:56

fryer. Okay, we're going to put a

6:58

pin on that because I love the

7:00

air fryer. Okay, but anyway, not only

7:02

did I marvel at what she made,

7:04

but how she was able to make

7:06

it and seemingly all effortlessly. So you

7:08

grew up. in a

7:10

neighborhood called St. Albans in Queens.

7:12

You had five siblings, so there

7:14

are six of you in the

7:16

household with your mom and dad.

7:18

This sounds like a household that

7:21

probably was a little bit loud.

7:23

Had a lot going on. Yeah,

7:25

we got calls from the airport

7:27

to keep it down. So I'm

7:29

wondering if you could go back

7:31

in time and space and describe

7:33

the kitchen and what it looked

7:35

like. Take me inside that space.

7:38

Well, we lived in a three

7:40

bedroom semi-attached house on a corner

7:42

lot in Queens in St. Albans.

7:44

You know, you walk in the

7:46

front door, there was a living

7:48

room. If you kept going a

7:50

little to the left, there was

7:52

a very small dining room. Somehow,

7:54

though, my mother managed to cram

7:57

in a breakfront hutch, a dining

7:59

table. 12 chairs. There were also

8:01

two extensions that would go in

8:03

it. And then if you went

8:05

straight, there was a small kitchen

8:07

that had literally enough space for

8:09

a very small kitchen table that

8:11

could seat four people. There was

8:13

a frigid air refrigerator. that was

8:16

yellowish color. There was a matching

8:18

stove or oven I should say

8:20

in a cabinet and then there

8:22

was a four top burner and

8:24

then a sink and the no

8:26

dishwasher and you know the window

8:28

looked out onto the backyard which

8:30

was a postage stamp with a

8:32

carport in the back but that

8:35

was the kitchen and if you

8:37

had three people in there you

8:39

were crowded. And you had a

8:41

big family. Yes. So your mother

8:43

and father, your father is Bahamian,

8:45

is that correct? His family is

8:47

from the Hamas. First generation Bahamian.

8:49

And your mother's family is from

8:51

Jamaica. Yep. Jamaica and New York.

8:54

Or I should say Boston. Was

8:56

this a kitchen that had a

8:58

very strong West Indian influence? You

9:00

know what, it did and it

9:02

didn't. You know, it depended on

9:04

the day. My mother, like most

9:06

first generation folk, had her traditional

9:08

food, but also made American food

9:10

or food of our neighborhood, which

9:13

like our first apartment was in

9:15

Rockaway, and it was a diverse

9:17

neighborhood. You know, whites, you know,

9:19

Italian, Polish. In fact, I remember

9:21

my mother, when I was a

9:23

baby, hard to believe. didn't eat

9:25

very much. And she was talking

9:27

to a neighbor who was Italian.

9:29

And she said, oh, you know

9:32

what you should try? There's this

9:34

wonderful breakfast pasta called pastina and

9:36

it's noodles that are cut up

9:38

very, very, very small. She said,

9:40

you should try giving that to

9:42

your son. And so my mother

9:44

did and I kept spitting it

9:46

out, spitting it out and spitting

9:48

it out. My mother runs into

9:51

her neighbor a few days later

9:53

and she goes, he just won't

9:55

eat it. the woman said to

9:57

my mother, well, how long are

9:59

you cooking it for? And my

10:01

mother looked at her and said,

10:03

oh, you're supposed to cook it?

10:09

So how'd that go on for me?

10:11

But you know, and you know, spaghetti

10:13

and meatballs, and look, you know, my

10:16

family was also, as many of the

10:18

people in the neighborhood were, because it

10:20

was a project, you know, middle to

10:22

lower middle income. And so there was

10:25

a lot of food that you could

10:27

stretch a budget, you know, spaghetti and

10:29

meatballs or meatloaf, you know, the things

10:31

that we look at, we call comfort

10:34

food. I mean, my mom, you know,

10:36

one of my favorite meals that she

10:38

would make would be ox-tail stew. Back

10:40

then, ox-tails were poor people food. You

10:42

know, nobody was serving ox-tails at restaurants,

10:45

unless you could find a Jamaican restaurant.

10:47

So I remember my mother being upset

10:49

with, I think it was Bobby Flay,

10:51

I can't remember who it was, but

10:54

back in the 90s, all of a

10:56

sudden, Oxtale became hot, you know, these

10:58

high-end chefs working with Oxtale. And my

11:00

mother was just, I walked into the

11:03

house one day and she said, you

11:05

know, those people on the food network,

11:07

I hate them. I said, okay, mom,

11:09

why? Well, because they're making these recipes

11:12

recipes with Oxtale, and now Oxtale's gone

11:14

through the roof, gone through the roof.

11:16

I said, okay, well I'll be sure

11:18

to bring that up next time I

11:20

see somebody from the food network. I

11:23

was like, okay. And because my mother

11:25

wasn't a gourmet cook, she was, you

11:27

know, she was feeding in quantity. There

11:29

were eight people in the family. And

11:32

I don't know about your mom, I

11:34

could probably count on one hand growing

11:36

up that I actually saw her eat.

11:38

She was always getting up and back

11:41

and forth. She'd sit and then she'd

11:43

get up again. And so, which was

11:45

why she was why she was why

11:47

she was so small. She was so

11:49

small. She was so small. She was

11:52

so small. She was so small. She

11:54

was so small. She was so small.

11:56

Tell me about your mom, what was

11:58

her name? And did she have a

12:01

kitchen personality? Was she different in the

12:03

kitchen than she was in the workplace

12:05

or when she went to church or

12:07

when she went elsewhere? Her name was

12:10

Isabel Burnett Smith. was the second youngest

12:12

of nine in the kitchen. Basically, my

12:14

mother was pretty much the same person,

12:16

whether in the kitchen, out of the

12:19

kitchen. She was a very dominant personality.

12:21

But it is not like she kept

12:23

us out of the kitchen. It was

12:25

just logistical. There just wasn't a lot

12:27

of room in the kitchen. So we

12:30

just kind of stayed out. She didn't

12:32

ask for help. and he didn't volunteer

12:34

it because if you got into the

12:36

kitchen odds are you would be dragooned

12:39

into dishwashing duty or dish drawing duty

12:41

so if you could stay out of

12:43

her line of sight you were probably

12:45

better off but no she was you

12:48

know she was a personality if you

12:50

will she would create personalities like she

12:52

would kind of tell my friends that

12:54

she used to be an opera singer

12:57

well she won't an opera singer she

12:59

I mean she sang in church but

13:01

or she would create like gibberish languages,

13:03

just create phrases and we're like, what

13:05

is she talking about? You know, we

13:08

had no idea. Like pig Latin or

13:10

something or just like? Yes, but not.

13:12

You know, just like she, I remember

13:14

she's going, Shamil and Blovag, I was

13:17

like, what is that mom? I don't

13:19

know. You just accept what your mother

13:21

says and does. So we just kind

13:23

of, that was Isabel or Izzie. Everybody

13:26

called her Izzie. You know, she was

13:28

a character, you know, but you know,

13:30

when it came to food, I remember

13:32

early on, there was a Fanny Farmer

13:35

cookbook, but for the most part, she

13:37

wasn't following recipes. You know, she kind

13:39

of... made it up as she went

13:41

or somebody told her a recipe or

13:43

she saw something in the paper. You

13:46

know, it was just what was on

13:48

sale. You know, what could she get

13:50

in bulk? I remember my folks had

13:52

a chest freezer in the basement so

13:55

that when stuff was on sale at

13:57

Western Beef in Queens, you know, they

13:59

could buy like a side of beef

14:01

or... Yeah, a big white chest. Almost

14:04

died. get to the bottom of it?

14:06

You could put a body in there,

14:08

basically, you know, if you were, if

14:10

my parents were the homicidal type, they

14:13

could have stored somebody in there. What

14:15

did you learn? about generosity in the

14:17

kitchen. And I asked this because we've

14:19

never worked together. We've worked at one

14:21

point on competing networks. We're both journalists.

14:24

So I know a lot of people

14:26

who've worked with you and known you

14:28

over the years. And the thing that

14:30

they always say about you is he

14:33

is exceedingly generous with his time, with

14:35

his resources, with his advice. So what

14:37

did you learn about generosity watching your

14:39

parents in that kitchen? You know, I

14:42

think it was one of the like

14:44

a lot of people. I think we

14:46

didn't have a lot of money, but

14:48

you shared yourself through food. If tragedy

14:50

befell one of your neighbors, there was

14:53

a corningware dish of something. that

14:55

went to that neighbor. There was always

14:57

an opportunity to bring something to somebody,

15:00

whether it was if one of the

15:02

neighborhood kids was sick, a plate of

15:04

brownies or something like that, you know,

15:06

members of my mother's rosary society would.

15:08

drop in and you'd hear them talking.

15:10

And the funny thing was, it was

15:12

like, my mother would, when they weren't

15:14

there, she'd talk about them, like, you

15:16

know, it's like, oh, that misses so

15:18

and so. I said, Mom, so why

15:21

are you, why are you going to

15:23

the rotary society if they drive you

15:25

all crazy? Well, it's very important, you

15:27

know, it's like, I mean, you know,

15:29

we do a lot of good work.

15:34

you're ready to kill half of

15:36

them, but that's all right. I

15:38

remember my mother was the keeper

15:40

of the family books. You know,

15:43

my dad literally came home, put

15:45

his paycheck on the, this is

15:47

obviously before we had direct deposit

15:49

or anything like that. I remember

15:52

that envelope on the table and

15:54

my mother doing the books and

15:56

juggling and you know, so to

15:58

the point where. Was that the

16:01

kitchen table? Was that the kitchen

16:03

table? she just be sitting there

16:05

and doing? Again, because the table

16:07

was so small, things tended to

16:09

happen more adjacent to the kitchen

16:12

or in the dining room. And

16:14

that was like some of my

16:16

memories of my mother going back

16:18

and forth between the kitchen and

16:21

the dining room, which was literally

16:23

10 steps. That's where everything really

16:25

in a sense happened, whether it

16:27

was Friday night board games, playing

16:30

monopoly or Scrabble. A lot of

16:32

Scrabble. You know, my mother was

16:34

a big believer in words and

16:36

reading and we would pop popcorn

16:38

or a big bowl of, and

16:41

I don't know why this started,

16:43

but a big bowl of in-shell

16:45

salted peanuts. I don't know why,

16:47

but yeah. I want

16:50

to return to something you said, that

16:52

scene where your dad would come home

16:54

from work and put the paycheck on

16:56

the table. That is not uncommon, but

16:59

it's not something that I think is

17:01

well understood in American life that there

17:03

was a time when men were seen

17:06

as the primary breadwinner and there was

17:08

an assumption. that they handled the finances,

17:10

that since they often brought home the

17:13

most money that they made the decisions

17:15

about, how that money was spent, what

17:17

was put away, what investments did they

17:19

make in their children's future, and putting

17:22

a little bit here and there for

17:24

the holidays, or maybe for a family

17:26

vacation. But in a lot of households,

17:29

that was actually the woman in the

17:31

household that was making those decisions. Can

17:33

you talk a little bit about that?

17:35

Yes, you know, it's funny as I'm

17:38

getting older. The memories are getting fuzzy,

17:40

you know. My dad's been gone for

17:42

over 20 years, my mom's been gone

17:45

for 15, but I seem to recall

17:47

early on in their marriage when I

17:49

was very small. He mismanaged the money,

17:51

and so she took it over. What

17:54

I learned equally from them was, A,

17:56

my mother's frugality, but I also, I

17:58

think inherited my father's... There

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at 7AM only on NBC. You

25:26

are for many of us a

25:28

face and a voice associated with

25:30

Thanksgiving. because of your segments on

25:32

the Today Show, because of your

25:34

role at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day

25:36

parade. So I'm curious about what

25:38

that holiday has meant for you

25:40

over years. What was Thanksgiving like

25:43

in your childhood home and how

25:45

do you celebrate Thanksgiving? Because it

25:47

must be a complicated day for

25:49

you now, but let's go first

25:51

back to St. Albans, and what

25:53

was Thanksgiving like back there? I

25:55

remember, and again, growing up in

25:57

New York City. this is probably

25:59

unique to New York City, in

26:01

that there were two broadcasts that

26:03

happened every Thanksgiving. There was the

26:05

Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, and then

26:07

right after that, Channel 11, which

26:09

is an independent station here, would

26:11

run Laurel and Hardy's March of

26:13

the Wooden Soldiers. And I'm a

26:15

big Laurel and Hardy fan. Anyway,

26:17

I remember, you know, we'd come

26:19

downstairs, and my mother would have

26:21

a big bowl of fruit. and

26:23

shelled nuts in the living room

26:25

where our TV was. So we

26:27

would come down in our pajamas

26:29

and we'd start watching the Macy's

26:31

Thanksgiving Day Parade and my mother

26:33

would then start prepping the Thanksgiving

26:35

meal because we always ate early.

26:37

And at some point during the

26:39

parade we'd go up, we'd get

26:41

showered, bathed. and get dressed. I

26:43

mean not fancy dressed but you

26:45

know shirt and pair of pants

26:47

and everything. And by now you

26:49

start to smell the turkey and

26:51

my mother's making the dressing and

26:53

and then we'd watch the March

26:55

of the Wooden Soldiers which was

26:57

about 90 minutes and so by

26:59

1.30 that was done the table

27:01

was set. and she'd call us

27:03

in to help set the table.

27:05

And by two o'clock, we were

27:07

having dinner. And I always heard

27:09

there was always a, at each

27:11

place setting, there was always a

27:14

bowl of Del Monte fruit salad

27:16

there. Oh, the one with that

27:18

little maraschino cherry, the little red

27:20

cherry. Yep, with that little red

27:22

maraschino cherry that has literally that

27:24

color red does not exist in

27:26

nature. I don't know what kind

27:28

of red dye number 65 they

27:30

used to get that. Yeah. And

27:32

then we, you know, there would

27:34

be the blessing of the table

27:36

and there wasn't enough room on

27:38

the table so that there was

27:40

some stuff in the kitchen, some

27:42

food, you know, and you'd help

27:44

yourself. It was kind of buffeted,

27:46

it was kind of buffet for

27:48

you as well. is when you

27:50

have your family do, I prep

27:52

a lot of stuff at night

27:54

and this was teamwork. And are

27:56

you the cook or is Debra

27:58

the cook? Who cooks in your

28:00

family? I'm the cook, but Debra

28:02

was the facilitator. So while I'm

28:04

at the parade, I've left a

28:06

kind of a schedule of what

28:08

needs to go in when. Oh,

28:10

you leave a schedule. So is

28:12

it like on the refrigerator or

28:14

some sort of text that you

28:16

give her? On a yellow sheet

28:18

of legal pad. And so Debra

28:20

was really responsible. I mean, she

28:22

was really of the important. role

28:24

until I would get home because

28:26

I'd get home, it ends at

28:28

noon, I'd get home about 12,

28:30

20, you know, we'd have people

28:32

coming over about 2, 3 o'clock.

28:34

So, and we'd also have people

28:36

bring stuff. And about 10 years

28:38

ago, Deborah and I were having

28:40

lunch at Bar Baloud on the

28:42

west side near ABC. And Daniel

28:45

Baloud came in. Famous chef, we

28:47

should just say for people who

28:49

don't know. Very famous chef. Very

28:51

famous chef. Just not New York,

28:53

but around the world at this

28:55

point. Anyway, he came into the

28:57

restaurant and he said, what are

28:59

you doing for Thanksgiving? And I

29:01

said, well, Daniel, I made it.

29:03

I did this whole thing. Why

29:05

don't you come to the restaurant

29:07

and come to Daniel for Thanksgiving?

29:09

I said, oh, that's nice. Thank

29:11

you. I had no intentions of

29:13

doing it. And Deborah said, why

29:15

don't we just try it? And

29:17

I went and they had the

29:19

traditional Thanksgiving meal and then some.

29:21

And it was like this revelation.

29:23

It was like the skies parted.

29:25

The sun came down shown on

29:27

this table. And I said, oh

29:29

my God, why haven't we done

29:31

this before? This is spectacular. Oh

29:33

my God. And to the point

29:35

where in and they give you

29:37

leftovers to take home. So I

29:39

haven't made a Thanksgiving meal in

29:41

probably 10 years. Our Thanksgiving tradition.

29:43

is parade, get home, shower, change,

29:45

and then dinner at Tenya. Is

29:47

there anything though that you miss?

29:49

As good a cook as he

29:51

is, as amazing a chef as

29:53

he is, is there anything that

29:55

you miss? No. Nothing. not sweet

29:57

potatoes with the marshmallows if that

29:59

was your thing. No, because you

30:01

know what we'll do is then

30:03

that we can, we're blessed, we

30:05

have a house upstate. We go

30:07

up, either depending on how early

30:09

we eat, we may drive up

30:11

on Thanksgiving Day, certainly on Friday

30:13

morning, and then I'll make kind

30:16

of a mini Thanksgiving meal. where

30:18

I'll do a small thing of

30:20

the sweet potato poon. I'll do

30:22

a- Sweet potato poon. Wait a

30:24

minute, what's that? Oh my gosh,

30:26

well my mother, I guess this

30:28

is a southern, she told us

30:30

a southern, I don't know. Anyway,

30:32

it's basically a crustless sweet potato

30:34

pie. And so you cook sweet

30:36

potatoes, mash them down, throw in

30:38

some baking powder, some flour, salt,

30:40

brown sugar, crushed pineapple, and you

30:42

put in a buttered casserole dish.

30:44

And then you bake it at

30:46

about $3.50. And this is a

30:48

holiday tradition, Thanksgiving tradition, when my

30:50

mother was making dinner. And when

30:52

she'd come to my house, she'd

30:54

make it. It has a marshmallow

30:56

topping that you brown under the

30:58

broiler. Those little mini marshmallows? No,

31:00

no, no, the jet puffed, big

31:02

ones, big ones. So it gets

31:04

a nice brown crust on them.

31:06

But as you know, with marshmallows,

31:08

if you're not careful, got to

31:10

stay right there. So what has

31:12

become as we were adult children,

31:14

it would be whose job is

31:16

it this year to distract mom

31:18

so that the marshmallow's catch file.

31:20

Oh no. So she'd have the

31:22

broiler open. and she's watching

31:25

it. And it was like, don't bother

31:27

me, don't bother me. And so one

31:29

of us would come in. Mom, we

31:31

need that big serving dishwares. And because

31:34

she couldn't delegate, she said, let me

31:36

go get it really quickly. And then

31:38

of course, within a minute or two,

31:41

the smoke alarm is going off. And

31:43

we're all like high fiving each other.

31:45

Oh, I'm so... I'm sorry. I'm on

31:48

team mom on this one. This is

31:50

just... Well, that's why we always bought

31:52

two bags of jet puff marshmallows. Because...

31:55

No, were you doing that just because

31:57

you were bad or were you doing

31:59

that because some of you actually liked

32:02

the burnt marshmallow taste? No, no, nobody

32:04

liked the burnt. We just liked it

32:06

because it was mischievous. happened a couple

32:09

of times and we realized, this is

32:11

great, we have to keep doing this.

32:13

This is fantastic. And then she gets

32:16

so angry, full angry with us, you

32:18

know, it's like. It's a holiday so

32:20

she probably let you slide a little

32:23

bit more than. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

32:25

So over the Thanksgiving weekend I will

32:27

make a dish of the sweet potato

32:30

poon in her honor. Poon, P-O-N. P-O-O-N.

32:32

Okay, sweet potato poon. I might have

32:34

to introduce that. And I think you

32:37

can become a cook or a chef

32:39

or whatever you want to call it.

32:41

But as much as what your parents

32:44

didn't do as they did. Again, there

32:46

were six kids. So breakfast was not

32:48

a leisurely pursuit in our house. So

32:51

my mother was not great at breakfast.

32:53

And even before there were ago waffles,

32:55

there was something called downy flake waffles.

32:58

They were square, you know, they had

33:00

frozen waffles, you put them in the

33:02

toaster. And I remember I was watching

33:04

some show when I was a kid,

33:07

some sitcom or whatever, and the mother

33:09

was making waffles with a waffle maker,

33:11

and I was like transfixed by this.

33:14

And so... I remember thinking when I'm

33:16

an adult, I'm never having another frozen

33:18

waffle as long as I live. And

33:21

I still have a Magic Chef waffle

33:23

maker that's about 30 years old. It's

33:25

beat to hell, but it makes fantastic

33:28

waffles. Not those Belgian waffles. Not the

33:30

big fat ones. Not those. No. Yeah.

33:32

is better than the pancake. The reason

33:35

why the waffle is better than the

33:37

pancake is that the pancake is a

33:39

flat surface. So the syrup rolls off,

33:42

the butter rolls off, the waffle has

33:44

little indentations that can hold those little

33:46

pools, those little pools, those golden pools,

33:49

and butter. And when the butter and

33:51

the syrup kind of mixed together, and

33:53

you cut it in a just. I

33:56

love a waffle. crisp on the outside,

33:58

a little fluffy. Here's the other trick,

34:00

the other thing that I've discovered to

34:03

add to the waffle mix. A couple

34:05

of scoops of malted milk mix. Oh

34:07

yeah, yeah, I can see that. I

34:10

can absolutely see that. I can absolutely

34:12

see that. A malted waffle. You know

34:14

what else you can add to a

34:17

waffle? A little bit of egg whites

34:19

that have been whipped. Okay. So it's

34:21

almost like just before they get mering

34:24

and you put a little bit of

34:26

the more fluffiness to it. That

34:32

house in St. Albans. I actually

34:34

have, I've seen it because you

34:37

went back there on an episode.

34:39

I remember when you went back

34:41

on a today show segment. So

34:43

I have it in my mind

34:45

as you talk about it. And

34:48

I read that your parents paid

34:50

$100 for the down payment in

34:52

the early 1960s. I think it

34:54

was 1963. Yep. House was $14.9.

34:57

Yeah. And you still own the

34:59

house. You have nephew that lives

35:01

in that house today. That is

35:03

a story that is almost impossible

35:06

right now. You know, housing is

35:08

so expensive. And so at this

35:10

time of the year, when we're

35:12

thinking about the bounty of the

35:14

holidays, when we're thinking about preparing

35:17

Thanksgiving meals, we should also be

35:19

mindful of those for whom the

35:21

kitchen is not a place of

35:23

plenty. Yeah. And I'm wondering if

35:26

you have a message of hope

35:28

or insight for families who struggle

35:30

to make rent or put food

35:32

on the table or make the

35:35

Thanksgiving holiday special when there's just

35:37

not enough to go around. Yeah.

35:39

It is the idea that one

35:41

in four children in this country

35:43

are food insecure just seems a

35:46

travesty. There are a number of

35:48

us that are really blessed. Our

35:50

church for a long time does

35:52

a lot of food drives, not

35:55

just the holidays, but all during

35:57

the year. And it seems inconceivable,

35:59

but that there are so many

36:01

people now trying to organize, not

36:03

just food drives, but listen, food

36:06

banks. day and age have become

36:08

a necessity. And so it's very

36:10

important that we remember those folks

36:12

and do what we can. And

36:15

one of the things that I

36:17

have a new appreciation late last

36:19

year during Thanksgiving and Christmas, it's

36:21

no secret I had a severe

36:24

medical issue. And to be completely

36:26

almost died. I didn't know it

36:28

at the time. Deborah and Lila,

36:30

my middle girl, were really instrumental

36:32

in keeping that away from me

36:35

so I could concentrate. Yeah, I

36:37

miss Thanksgiving. Almost miss Christmas. And

36:39

I forgot how important those touchstone

36:41

moments are. And in fact, for

36:44

Deborah, the first point that she

36:46

got that maybe I was going

36:48

to be OK was that I

36:50

had another procedure and coming out

36:53

of anesthesia, she was there and

36:55

she said, how are you feeling?

36:57

I saw this recipe in the

36:59

New York Times cooking segment for

37:01

a spatchcock mayonnaise-based turkey. I'm gonna

37:04

make that for Christmas. And she

37:06

thought, okay, I think he's gonna

37:08

make it. He's back. He's back

37:10

with us. Because that's how important

37:13

those moments are. I realize that

37:15

we need to take care of

37:17

other people who are doing okay,

37:19

but there but for the grace

37:21

of God, go us. Was

37:24

the memory of a holiday in retrospect?

37:26

Do you think that deep in your

37:28

psyche that that was one of the

37:30

things that pulled you through? I want

37:33

another Christmas with my family. I want

37:35

us all together. Yeah, it was. And

37:37

yeah, I felt in a sense badly

37:39

because I ruined Thanksgiving for the family

37:41

and I was not going to let

37:43

that happen for Christmas. That's being a

37:46

little hard on yourself though, isn't that

37:48

Elle? I mean, you didn't really think-

37:50

Yeah, you know, but listen, when you're

37:52

under pain meds, you go in different

37:54

places like you might not. But, you

37:57

know, it was important to me and

37:59

it gave me something to put and

38:01

I made Christmas dinner. You

38:07

said that your all-time favorite meal

38:09

that your mom would make is

38:11

oxtail stew. Yes. I think I

38:14

heard that it's not just any

38:16

oxtail stew. It's oxtail stew with

38:18

dumplings. Yes. It's got everything you

38:21

need in one pot. You got

38:23

the vegetables, you got the beef,

38:25

and you've got the starch in

38:28

these fluffy, dense... and that was

38:30

what was always amazed me that

38:32

you could have something that was

38:35

dense yet fluffy at the same

38:37

time. When I think about her,

38:39

the perfect meal from her, it

38:41

would be the oxtail stew, collard

38:44

greens, and a pineapple upside down.

38:46

Okay, now, that is good eating.

38:48

That sounds. Yeah, no, that was

38:51

her Super Bowl of food. And

38:53

it was great because you could

38:55

make a lot for not a

38:58

lot of money on a cold

39:00

day. My dad got, and when

39:02

we were like, I was like

39:05

12, he got into baking. And

39:07

so he started making like yeast

39:09

rolls and bread and cinnamon rolls.

39:12

And so the perfect day to

39:14

walk into that house and smell

39:16

yeast bread baking, my mother's ox

39:19

tail stew, and the overtones of

39:21

that caramelized pineapple was just about

39:23

as good as it gets. Well,

39:27

we're going to share the recipe

39:29

with our listeners. So is there

39:31

anything that they have to absolutely

39:33

get right or pay attention to

39:35

to make sure that they get

39:37

the right flavor? You got to

39:39

saute the ox tails first, preferably

39:41

in a little oil in their

39:44

own fat, and don't crowd the

39:46

pot so that they brown well.

39:48

You really want them browned because

39:50

that lends the depth of flavor

39:52

and try to get the meatiest

39:54

ox tails you can. And don't

39:56

rush it. Don't rush it. This

39:58

needs to go low and slow.

40:01

a while. Yes. All right. I've

40:03

loved talking to you. Thanks so

40:05

much. It's so great to see

40:07

you, Michelle. That

40:14

was fun. I liked that conversation

40:16

and it was a reminder that

40:18

we often share the best of

40:20

ourselves through food. Even when Al

40:22

Roker's family didn't have much money,

40:25

they still would make a batch

40:27

of brownies or a dish of

40:29

something for their neighbors if they

40:31

came upon tragedy or if someone

40:33

was sick. And now as a

40:35

fully grown adult with his own

40:38

money, El Roker continues to give

40:40

to and to recognize families less

40:42

fortunate than his by participating in

40:44

food drives and food banks. As

40:46

we step into this holiday season,

40:48

as food and family come to

40:50

the center stage in our lives,

40:53

it's important to remember to extend

40:55

generosity to others who may need

40:57

it this season. Maybe consider donating

40:59

to your local food bank or

41:01

volunteering at a food drive this

41:03

holiday. Remember those for whom this

41:06

is not a season of plenty.

41:08

Even a little can go a

41:10

long way. Now you can find

41:12

Mama Roker's recipe for oxtell stew

41:14

and dumplings on my Instagram page.

41:16

If you try it in your

41:18

own kitchen, and I hope you

41:21

do, make sure to use the

41:23

hashtag your mama's kitchen so we

41:25

can see all of those delicious

41:27

creations. Thanks for listening. Come back

41:29

soon. This has been a higher

41:31

ground and audible original produced by

41:34

higher ground studios, senior producer Natalie

41:36

Ritten, producer Sonia Tunn, and associate

41:38

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41:40

engineering from Andrew Eepin and Roy

41:42

Baum. Higher Ground Audios Editorial Assistance

41:44

are Gen 11 and Camilla Thurticus.

41:46

Executive producers for Higher Ground are

41:49

Nick White, Muct-Mohan, Dan Fearman, and

41:51

me, Michel Norris. Executive producers for

41:53

Audible are Zola Mashariki, Nick Diangelo,

41:55

and Ann Heperman. show's

41:57

closing song is is

41:59

504 by the Soul Rebels. Editorial

42:02

and and web

42:04

support from Melissa Bayer and Say

42:06

What Media, our is booker

42:08

is and thanks this

42:10

week go to this week go

42:12

to Inez Andres, Sacho the team

42:14

at Think at Think Food Eli

42:16

Turner, and special thanks this

42:18

week to NBC week to

42:20

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42:26

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42:28

Rachel and that's it. and

42:30

everybody. See what we're serving

42:32

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Sound Sound 2023 by Higher

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Ground Audio, LLC. Higher

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Ground. Hey,

42:59

guys, thank you so much for listening.

43:01

I hope you love this beautiful conversation. You

43:03

can find more of your mama's kitchen

43:05

wherever you get your podcasts. There

43:17

are some football feelings you

43:19

can only get with Bet get with

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bed MGM right, not just the

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