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1:08

I come across something I love, I

1:10

cannot wait to share it with you

1:13

guys. And that's exactly how I felt

1:15

when I discovered the work of my

1:17

guest today, best-selling author Brianna Wiest. In

1:19

fact, I loved your most recent book so

1:21

much, it's called The Pivot Ear, that I

1:24

even gave it to my colleagues here today

1:26

for the holidays. It was one

1:28

of those things I just could not keep to

1:30

myself and I wanted everybody to feel the way

1:32

the book made me feel. Now,

1:34

if you know me, you know I love

1:36

an inspirational quote. I truly believe in the

1:38

power of these uplifting words to touch

1:40

our souls and to make us

1:43

think and to change the trajectory of the

1:45

day ahead. And that is just

1:47

what Brianna's words do. Brianna

1:50

began her career sharing her creative writing, and

1:52

no matter what journey you may be on

1:54

in life, I guarantee you

1:56

you're going to find meaning in her writing.

2:00

and touched my soul. And now, like all the

2:02

things I love, I cannot wait to share it

2:04

with you. I'm Hoda Kotb.

2:06

Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. I

2:30

am so excited to be sitting here

2:32

with you, Brianna. Your book, The Pivot

2:34

Ear, was so incredibly

2:37

life-changing, and I have to confess something to you, if

2:39

it's okay. So, I

2:42

heard a woman named Lynn

2:44

Twist quote your book, and she

2:46

said, I'm going to read you a passage from

2:48

this book. And it was

2:50

so profound and moving that I'm actually going to

2:52

look it up as we talk. But

2:54

it was so profound and moving to me that I

2:56

was like, I've got to find out who this person

2:58

is. After listening to what Lynn

3:01

said, I assumed you

3:03

were probably 90 years

3:05

old or something, because I thought,

3:08

who can be that wise and

3:10

also, you know, be

3:13

just to be that have that much wisdom, you have

3:15

to be an older person. You're

3:18

the opposite of that. How old are

3:21

you? 31. You're 31. You're like, oh

3:23

my gosh, but you were able to

3:25

find this wisdom somehow. How did you?

3:27

You know, it's

3:29

so crazy because I get that question.

3:31

You must. Semi-often. And

3:34

sometimes I don't, you know, it came

3:36

from some combination of my brain and

3:38

my heart and my life. But,

3:43

you know, it really came from

3:45

feeling a mix of wanting

3:47

to go inward and, you know, find myself

3:50

more deeply and also a calling

3:52

feeling like I was meant to create

3:54

something or share something. I

3:57

don't, like, I don't really know. We don't know. Well, it's

3:59

in you. And let me just read what

4:01

she said. Oh wait, is this the one?

4:03

Hold on, there's so many good ones that everyone, oh no, here

4:05

it is. No, that's

4:07

not it. Hold on, by the way, don't look at

4:10

my Instagram feed. It's all you. That's really what

4:12

it is. It's all you. So this is the one

4:14

and there are so many. Here

4:16

we go. I hope you allow your

4:19

life to be bigger than you ever thought it

4:21

could be. I hope you allow yourself to embody

4:23

more beauty than you ever thought possible. I

4:25

hope you don't get trapped by the small

4:27

stories, the little ideas you had about what the

4:29

future may be. I hope you don't

4:32

long for the things you've outgrown just

4:34

because they're familiar. Wow, that hit

4:36

me. I hope you don't

4:38

consider everything you've lose to be a loss.

4:41

I hope you don't define yourself only

4:44

by the limits of what you have

4:46

known. I hope you

4:48

do not cap your potential of what others have

4:50

said is possible. And most of all, I

4:53

hope you recognize the light when it hits you. I

4:56

hope you let yourself do more than you ever

4:58

thought you could. When

5:00

I heard Lin Twist read those words aloud, it

5:03

moved me so deeply because I think

5:05

we all put our

5:07

own little cage around us and we think, well,

5:10

we're safe here and this is where we're meant to be and

5:12

this is my comfort zone. And

5:14

you and your life have stepped out of your comfort zone

5:16

many times. Oh yeah. Yeah, finding

5:18

the courage to do that. How

5:21

did you, let's go back. So you were, I

5:23

met your mom. She's a lovely human being. She's

5:26

got two pom poms. She's a cheerleader like my

5:28

mom. So what was it like in

5:30

your life when you were little? I

5:32

was little. I think I

5:35

was a creative kid, but mostly just

5:37

pretty normal. Normal kid. Describe your childhood

5:39

bedroom. Because that- My childhood bedroom. Oh

5:41

my gosh, I've never gotten this question

5:43

before. It

5:46

was pink and sponge painted. Okay.

5:48

I remember this. Tons

5:51

of books. I didn't have a TV. And

5:54

I used to fall asleep reading every night. And

5:56

there are all these pictures of me when I

5:59

was little falling asleep. like having

6:01

fallen asleep, holding a book. That's

6:03

very telling. Now that I

6:05

think, I've never thought about this before, but now that I think

6:07

back on it, yeah, you're right. You

6:10

were already just soaking up the- I

6:12

never even pieced these things together. What

6:14

was on the wall? Was on the wall,

6:16

well, Britney Spears poster. Of course. You

6:20

had to, that was your era. So

6:22

Britney, anything else? Britney Spears

6:24

poster. And I've specifically remember

6:26

some kind of beaded like

6:28

strands in the doorway. Do you know

6:30

what those are called? I don't know, I

6:32

definitely had them. So they were there, so you were a

6:35

little hippie. I guess so, yeah. You had

6:37

some of that, okay. That's when I remember that.

6:40

What about your sheets? Did they have, was there anything

6:42

to them or? Oh gosh,

6:44

I can't remember. Comforter stuffed animal. Something pink.

6:47

Yeah. No, what? A fascinating question.

6:50

I've never gotten that one before. You know, someone

6:52

asked me that once and they said it's a

6:54

window into someone's life. And

6:56

I remembered that because it shows

6:58

what mattered, what you valued. Some

7:01

people had ornately

7:03

decorated. Some people had

7:05

clean as a whistle. Some

7:08

people had messy and bunk beds

7:10

shared with multiple siblings all

7:12

by myself, whatever. But

7:14

it does tell you a little bit about how

7:17

you grew into what you became. So books

7:19

were your thing. Well, I

7:21

never thought about it before, but now that I'm

7:24

really looking back on it, it was like my

7:26

safe haven. And what, so say

7:28

from what? You think? From

7:30

the whole world. Just from everything. From the whole

7:32

world. That was my quiet bubble. Where I

7:34

would go inward and come here

7:37

and here, yeah. So when you

7:39

were reading, cause good readers

7:41

are usually good writers.

7:44

When you were younger, was writing the thing

7:46

that the teacher said, oh, okay everybody,

7:48

let's read this paper aloud.

7:51

And this is how it should be done.

7:53

No, so that's what's so interesting, which is,

7:55

I think so many writers, you know, have

7:57

a story where they knew that was

7:59

the thing. the time they were young and followed

8:01

that through and that was just not it for

8:03

me. But I don't know if you remember this,

8:05

but when you met my mom, one of the

8:07

things she had said was, and I

8:09

forgot about this too until she said it, that when I

8:11

was really little I used to tell her over and over

8:14

again, I felt like I was meant to do something and

8:17

to help others in some way. And

8:20

she said that she remembered it because it was odd

8:23

for a kid, I guess that age to

8:25

say something like that. Yeah. I don't

8:27

remember saying it, but that... That's

8:29

so interesting. It's like thinking of service,

8:31

like almost being of service at that

8:33

age. And that's very young to think

8:35

that. So not, no, not

8:37

quite. Well, this is funny too. I was

8:39

a writing major in college and

8:42

I avoid, I'm not even kidding, I avoided

8:44

taking a creative writing class. I think I

8:46

had to take one to get because I

8:49

thought, I'm not kidding you, Hoda, I thought nobody

8:51

would be interested in anything I would have to

8:54

say. I'm not lying to you. Like I was

8:56

just so self-conscious. I was like, I have nothing

8:58

good to say. Anything I would

9:00

write would be terrible. I didn't want to share

9:02

it. I don't want to show anyone. Okay. So

9:04

that's, first of all, that's unbelievable because

9:07

you know, there's confident people who don't really have any talent.

9:09

You're like, how are they? Like some

9:12

people have zero talent and tons of

9:14

confidence and somehow it rised them. So

9:16

why did you think your work

9:18

wasn't worthy of being seen at

9:21

that time? I think

9:23

I just assumed I wasn't smart enough or

9:26

interesting enough. And

9:29

I don't know, it was just kind of regular in

9:31

a lot of ways. So I thought, you

9:33

know, what could I possibly write or create

9:35

that would be interesting to

9:38

other people? But so

9:41

no, writing was not, I don't know that there

9:43

was ever a point at which anybody said, oh,

9:45

like you have a talent or

9:47

something like that. Not that I recall. And

9:51

then as I got older, I wanted to work

9:53

in news or journalism because I really did always

9:55

love reading. Like those were always just kind of

9:57

what I loved. And

10:00

as I went on really my own

10:02

inner journey, I started truly

10:05

like journaling for my own sake and

10:07

then kind of sharing my meditations. And

10:10

then that was what just like caught on

10:12

fire. I think when you

10:14

think of, again, I'm talking to Brianna

10:17

Wieston, the book is called The Pivot

10:19

Year, 365

10:21

Days to Become the Person You Truly Want to Be. And

10:24

I love this book because no matter where you open

10:26

it, you're finding something

10:28

new. And there are one page essays,

10:30

half page essays, doesn't matter what they are,

10:32

but they're all profound. In fact,

10:34

I've had other friends at the Today Show

10:36

because I give this book away. This is

10:38

my book that I gave this year and

10:41

I ordered a ton and was still out. Like

10:43

when I was done giving them out, I still

10:46

needed to get more. And

10:48

they've all said, I keep it by my

10:50

bedside. And instead of scrolling, I read. And

10:52

instead of scrolling, I look at

10:55

one passage. Have you

10:57

been able to get any sense of

10:59

the impact your writing

11:01

has had? Because I feel it and all I did was

11:03

hand it. I didn't write it, I just gave it away.

11:08

Yeah, I feel it and

11:10

I see it, but I think sometimes it's hard to

11:12

fully process what that means.

11:16

It's just, it's so mind blowing really.

11:18

And when I was putting that book

11:20

together, I wrote it in

11:22

that way because over the years, so many people

11:24

had reached out and said that. Something

11:27

they really wanted and enjoyed was doing things a

11:29

little piece at a time. Like

11:31

an essay a day, or they really enjoyed a post

11:33

on Instagram or something because they could kind of break

11:36

it. People are busy, like

11:38

they don't always have time to sit down and read all the

11:40

time. Right, they don't have time for that all the time. And

11:43

so when I sat down, I

11:45

thought, oh, I think what you're asking for is

11:47

kind of like a daily devotional kind of little,

11:50

basically, did I talk

11:52

to you about this? That morning meditation

11:54

is a huge part of my life

11:57

every single day. Yeah, what's that routine?

11:59

Tell me about that. As soon as I wake up,

12:01

the first at least 10 minutes is

12:03

in quiet meditation, no phone, no books, no

12:05

journal. So just walk through, you wake up,

12:07

do you get out of bed, brush

12:10

your teeth and do stuff and then sit? I

12:12

usually get my coffee. Get your coffee. I'll go

12:14

sit in my chair, I'll go outside. And

12:19

every time I stand up from that, I

12:22

either know what I need to do that day or I have

12:24

a new idea. And so many of the things in that book

12:27

came from little nudges, little glimmers, little

12:29

insights from that time. And

12:31

so I kind of unintentionally gave

12:34

other people that experience to have

12:36

that like little morning meditation kind

12:38

of with me. But

12:41

that's why I wrote it in that way.

12:43

And it makes me just so happy to

12:45

hear also people sharing it with one another.

12:47

I actually have a friend who,

12:51

his girlfriend was reading The Mountain Is You and

12:53

she was taking notes in

12:55

the margins. And then he told me

12:58

that he went through the book and

13:00

through reading her reactions and thoughts to

13:03

different parts of the book, he felt like he got

13:05

to know her at a totally different

13:07

level. Oh, that's interesting. And

13:09

so this is really like the

13:11

most like thrilling thing to me to

13:13

think like, this is something that

13:16

people use in their relationships to get to

13:18

know them, to connect. And I think I've

13:20

actually read a few messages of people saying

13:22

that like with their partner whoever

13:25

they are sharing, before

13:27

bed or in the morning. It's so cool. I'm just

13:29

gonna open it randomly because this is that kind of book. It

13:31

doesn't matter what page you open it to day 39. I

13:34

don't even know what day 39 is. I don't know what day

13:36

39 is. Let's read it. You

13:38

are here to carve a new way

13:40

out of the unknown. You are here

13:42

to defy what's expected and create a

13:44

new normal. One where you feel inherently

13:47

free to not see external

13:49

challenges as absolute dead ends, but to

13:51

discover the quiet resilience you cultivate as

13:53

you work your way around them. You

13:56

are here to nurture the feeling a

13:58

life most fully lived. would give you in your

14:01

chest, not what you imagine it

14:03

would appear in someone else's eyes. It's

14:05

like your own, can I just do

14:07

one more random? I am

14:09

so into this book. What

14:11

day is, I don't remember, but there

14:14

was a piece that you said, Not Everything You Loses

14:16

a Lost. One of the days starts with that and

14:18

that is my favorite day. It's at the beginning. It's

14:21

at the beginning. We're going to find it. It

14:23

starts with Not Everything. That's one of my favorite days. I know.

14:25

Oh, I know that one. I know. Look at me. That's one

14:27

of my favorite too. I think I have it in my, I

14:29

think I screen grabbed it. Wait, hold on. Hold on.

14:32

You know, I'm going to find it. And as

14:34

I do find it, day 11, day

14:36

15, but every single,

14:39

every single one, every, I'm like, I like smile when

14:42

I read them. If you buy

14:44

this book and I think you should, I think

14:46

you will find that each,

14:49

each one of those passages like hits

14:51

you in a

14:53

way. And by the way, Carson

14:55

Daly is now screen grabbing

14:57

and posting. Carson never posts.

15:00

Okay. You know what he's doing? He's

15:02

posting the pivot ear. Carson Daly,

15:04

who was just drinking with Blake

15:06

Shelton the other day is now

15:09

posting from the pivot ear. All

15:12

of a sudden, all these people are posting

15:14

and then Savannah's like, are you haunting me?

15:16

Are you reading my mind? She keeps saying

15:18

that every time I post something because I've,

15:20

Brianna, I think you're reading mine. Did you

15:22

find it? Of course you

15:24

did. Gosh. Oh

15:26

my gosh. Day 52. Please read day 52.

15:31

Not everything you lose is a loss.

15:33

Some things are freedom. Some

15:35

things are a second chance. Some things are

15:37

a miracle in disguise. Some

15:40

things are a detached, long needed,

15:43

a clarity brought to blurry eyes.

15:45

Some things are an intervention. Some

15:48

things are the unexpected answer to

15:50

a long chanted prayer. Some

15:53

things are healing. Some things are a

15:55

becoming. Some things are planned

15:57

long before you ever came to be. Some

16:00

things are a devastation, but others are

16:02

a kind of vital guidance. The

16:05

kind of, of course, correction you

16:07

didn't even know you needed. The

16:09

kind you did not even realize you were

16:11

asking for all along. I

16:14

know you're listening to this right now, if you're listening

16:17

to this podcast, going, oh my gosh,

16:19

but every day is that day.

16:24

Still ahead, Brianna opens up about her own

16:26

journey inward and the messages she hopes

16:28

to share through her writing when we

16:30

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17:46

When you talk about an inner journey, people

17:49

use that word a lot. And I think, I

17:52

feel like I've been on that too in

17:55

the last couple years. But what

17:57

does that mean to you? Because when some

17:59

people think sit in meditation, sit quietly, you

18:01

think, okay, I'm sitting quietly and then I

18:03

start going through my to-do list, oh my

18:05

kid's soccer, I got that, oh, oh, oh

18:08

meditate, meditate, meditate. But what

18:10

did your inner journey entail? It's

18:14

so hard to find the words to describe

18:16

what the last 10, 13 years have been.

18:18

And you know, I know

18:21

those words at this point are just platitudes, I

18:23

think, to most people. But for me,

18:25

it really does represent something very, very real. And

18:28

for me, it was understanding not only

18:30

the connection between my thought

18:32

patterns, my feeling states, and

18:35

what I was consciously and unconsciously

18:38

creating or engaging in, right? But

18:43

it was also understanding like

18:45

the unknown unknowns within myself,

18:48

things I was influenced by and didn't

18:50

realize, things I believed and didn't realize, and

18:53

how strong of an impact that

18:55

could have on how I would

18:58

experience truly any given moment

19:00

of any given day. And

19:02

tracing those threads back and not

19:05

just tracing them, but unpacking them

19:07

and trying to kind of not

19:10

just rewire them, but also change the

19:12

way I told myself the story about

19:15

myself and change the

19:17

way that I told myself the story about

19:19

my life. And that's what I

19:21

think I've tried to share in

19:23

the books, which is can you learn

19:26

to tell the story differently? So with the passage you just

19:28

read about, not everything you lose is a loss. In

19:32

those moments, the relationship ends, you don't

19:34

get the job, something falls through. These

19:36

things that you see as the ending,

19:39

is there a third door of possibility that

19:41

you could turn your attention to to say,

19:43

but what if this is actually a beginning?

19:45

It's not to say we don't grieve when

19:47

things are sad or override

19:50

it. We sit and we feel it. But

19:52

then once we're done processing that, it's like, well,

19:55

what if, as Oprah says, failure

19:58

is life's way of of moving me in

20:00

a different direction. I like that. It's

20:04

funny, I was talking to someone and

20:06

they were talking about like patterns and

20:09

what patterns are yours and what patterns are your

20:11

parents and what

20:13

you carry on and what do you believe or what were you just, what

20:15

was drummed in your head, you and your kid and you're like, I believe

20:17

that. And you're like, do I really believe that? Or was that

20:19

just something that was told to me? But

20:22

one of the things that was

20:24

pointed out to me was she said, you're someone who carries

20:26

people. She was right. She said,

20:28

you carry your family, you

20:30

carry your friends, you

20:33

carry your boyfriend, you carry your

20:35

carrier. She

20:37

said, I want you to write the pros and cons

20:39

of carrying. And I was like, oh, okay, pros. Well,

20:42

I'm helping them, I'm guiding them, I'm

20:44

making it easier for them, blah, blah,

20:46

blah, blah. And why is it,

20:49

now write down the cons of carrying? What's

20:51

the cons? I was

20:53

like, oh, sometimes it can get fatiguing. And

20:58

later she said, well, I think you need to look

21:00

at carrying again, because for you,

21:03

I think carrying is control. You're controlling them.

21:05

You're gonna, you come with me, I'll take

21:07

you, it's faster. You won't get hurt, you

21:10

come my way. Oh no, I've already been

21:12

there, you come with me. And

21:14

she made something clear to me. She said, your job

21:16

isn't to carry someone, your job

21:18

is to stand next to even your daughter, even

21:21

your mother, stand next to and walk

21:24

with. That's their trip and you're on your trip.

21:26

You're not changing their trip. You think you are,

21:29

because you think you're so strong and you can

21:31

do it, but you're not changing their trip. You're

21:34

just there. So it

21:36

taught me, and this is a window into me now, which,

21:39

and I've been doing that my whole life. Never

21:42

thought twice about it, never even bothered to think

21:44

of why do I do it, just that's me,

21:46

that's how we do in our family. And

21:49

I think it takes a lot to kind of peel

21:51

back and look inside. And sometimes it

21:53

takes an outside person to say, hey,

21:56

like that's what it took for me. Did

21:58

you have outside? is

24:00

letting them drop the box sometimes. Yes, that's so

24:03

profound. Which experience you feel it. Yes. So

24:05

you gotta let them drop the box. That's it. Oh my God,

24:07

that's so true. Another thing, it's so funny,

24:10

because you think about all these little life lessons you learn

24:12

along the way. When we were

24:14

gonna adopt children, Joel,

24:17

who was my partner at the time,

24:20

I'd filled out all the paperwork and done all the stuff, and

24:22

they said it could take a year, it could take two

24:24

years. So, you know,

24:27

go on with your life kind of thing. I was like, okay. So

24:31

there was a room upstairs

24:35

that was going to be the room for

24:37

the baby whenever that day came. And

24:40

Joel said, oh well, you know, it's gonna might be

24:42

a year or two. So I'm gonna use that as

24:44

my office, since I do a lot of work from

24:46

here. And then when the

24:48

baby comes, we'll, you know, read Jigger. And

24:51

I stopped him and I said, no, we can't do that.

24:54

And he goes, why? And I said, because

24:56

we don't have, we have to make room.

24:58

Like if it's happening, you have

25:00

to clear space for it.

25:02

You have to make a spot so

25:05

that we're ready. By filling every

25:07

spot, you're not ready. It's

25:10

like the girl who is whispering on the

25:12

phone to her ex-boyfriend wondering why she's not

25:14

meeting anybody. Yes. Well, you

25:16

don't have any room. It's like, it's such

25:18

a life lesson that everything is crowded and

25:21

you can't breathe and you can't figure out

25:23

why you're not getting anything new in your

25:25

life. Do you know that? I believe it's

25:27

roomy. I hope I'm not mistaken quote, which

25:29

is being human is a guest house each

25:32

day, a new arrival. And by the end, it

25:35

ends, you know, with, you know, the

25:37

grief, the devastation, it might be, welcome

25:39

it and greeted at the door laughing because

25:41

it might be clearing you out for some

25:43

delight. That's what it reminds me of. Also,

25:45

this is unrelated, but it just popped into my head

25:47

and I needed to tell you this. So

25:50

I used to have a lot of books in my room when I was

25:52

a kid, but now I don't really keep

25:55

my books. Once I'm done with them, I donate

25:57

them and just let them keep kind of moving

25:59

on. But this is important. I

26:01

actually have two books at my house that are

26:03

my like keepsake books that

26:06

I've taken with me every move

26:08

all the time. One is

26:10

my signed copy of Tiny Beautiful Things,

26:13

the book that I referenced before. And the

26:15

other one is I've Loved You Since Forever.

26:17

I swear to God, I'm

26:20

not lying to you. I'm going to take what I wish I

26:22

had taken a photo before I left my house, because when I

26:24

go home, I'm going to take a picture and send it to

26:26

you. I'm not lying to you. I thought

26:28

it was the most beautiful book I had

26:31

ever and I was saving it for my

26:33

future child. I'm not making this up. I'm

26:36

taking a picture and

26:39

sending it to you when I get home because I'm not making

26:41

this up. Really not.

26:44

So I think our love for each

26:46

other is mutual. That is so beautiful

26:48

and touching because we're just talking about

26:50

my firstborn, which is Hailey. And

26:53

that book was for her. It's so funny

26:55

about it. And it's oh, that's so touching

26:57

and beautiful. I think I found it in

26:59

Target. Probably. I think it was on sale. No,

27:01

no, no. Oh my God. No. I would think

27:03

I was shopping for like a baby shower gift

27:06

and I happened to pick that up and I

27:08

was hoping through it. And I remember crying in

27:10

the aisle. Oh my God. And then I didn't

27:12

give it as a gift. I bought it for

27:14

myself. Okay. And said one day. Coming

27:17

up, Brianna shares how she knew she was

27:19

on the right path and the simple practice

27:21

she uses to keep things in perspective. Stay

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28:50

feel like in life,

28:53

there are so many kind, beautiful

28:55

souls. Like to meet you, to

28:58

read your book, to listen to

29:00

all the lives you've touched. And

29:02

I feel like you're like a lot of regular

29:04

girls who

29:06

just happened to find the right

29:08

path. You could be

29:10

in the local news, totally torching

29:12

your career. You

29:15

could have been standing in front of a fire

29:17

that was burning in front of us. You could

29:19

be in the local news, totally torching your career.

29:23

I don't know what, but you

29:25

found your path. Some people

29:27

wanna know, how do you know when

29:29

you are on the right path? Like

29:32

how did you know? I

29:34

think, well, in

29:36

the moment, I was just

29:39

following a strong intuitive

29:41

nudge. And I think that it

29:43

come, I think we

29:45

think that our callings in life will

29:47

come to us always like these huge,

29:50

clear visions. But I don't

29:52

think they always come that way. Sometimes it's like a

29:54

very small, oh, I should go there

29:56

or do that, create that thing, right?

29:58

It starts so small. And

30:01

then I think a lot of the

30:03

other times, we're like almost alchemizing in

30:05

a way, right? And I

30:07

know it's an overused word too, but it's

30:09

like, you know, this is a question I don't

30:11

have an answer for. This is

30:14

the thing I'm going through that I need,

30:16

I need something, you know, to

30:18

act as a balm, a solve for my own

30:20

self. And you, I think

30:22

you are your own litmus test with a lot of things. You

30:24

know, you create everything that I've written. I wrote for myself. Then

30:28

I just shared it. But in those moments when

30:30

I was writing it for myself, the

30:32

calling that I was following was not,

30:34

you know, oh, I know that this will

30:36

become my life and my legacy. It was

30:39

in this moment, I know I am moved

30:41

to do this exact, this

30:43

very tiny offering to

30:46

my own life. And then you

30:48

share it. And I

30:50

think, you know, I think

30:52

part of the thing I'm most grateful

30:54

for is that I

30:57

am like regular. And I

30:59

don't mean that, you know, just

31:01

personal, I really don't. I

31:03

think it's a beautiful thing because it's like that's

31:05

how everyone feels on the inside. So it resonates

31:07

at some level. And so what I mean

31:09

by that is you don't have

31:12

to wait until you feel like

31:14

you are someone, you know, who

31:16

is deserving of doing something extraordinary.

31:18

And those little tiny offerings are

31:20

extraordinary in and of themselves, whether

31:22

they touch, you know, everyone

31:24

in the world or whether they never leave your

31:26

room. The act of doing that I think is

31:28

what your life is about. It's interesting. Someone

31:31

was saying to me one time, say

31:34

your dream out loud, even if

31:36

it's just a whisper in the bathroom mirror to

31:38

yourself. But to put it

31:40

out there into the world is something

31:42

that makes something true. And

31:45

I remember when you talked about having kids one

31:47

day, which I'm sure will be an amazing mother. I

31:49

can already see that. But I

31:52

remember walking with a friend of mine before

31:55

I had adopted Haley and Hope. And

31:57

she said, well, we never just casually.

32:00

We never wanted kids. And

32:02

I was walking and I just said, well

32:04

actually I did want kids. She

32:06

said, well you never said that. I said, well I

32:08

said it, I didn't say it because it wasn't to

32:10

be. I didn't want to say something

32:12

that was like, oh I never went to the moon. I mean

32:14

it's not happening, so why am I going to say it out

32:16

loud kind of thing? And the

32:19

minute I said it out loud to her, I

32:21

realized I'd said it. And then all

32:23

of a sudden all I could see everywhere I

32:25

looked were signs pointing that way. I

32:28

googled, how old was Sandra Bullock when

32:30

she adopted her, you didn't know. And Sandra Bullock was my age. I'm like,

32:32

this is weird. Okay, what about this?

32:35

What about that? And the more I

32:37

looked, it was, they

32:39

signs just kept coming. It's like the universe said, okay

32:41

you said it, now let's go get it. And

32:44

I feel like that's kind of how that works.

32:46

Do you see yourself as a mom? You said you're future

32:49

kids. I guess, hopefully one day. Yeah, you do. They

32:51

sang it out loud, but I've

32:53

also heard so much about writing it down.

32:56

Writing it down, yeah. That

32:58

writing it down, I don't know what the metric is, but

33:00

it's like 10 times more likely. I don't know what it

33:02

is. When you write it down. Yeah, there's something I'm writing

33:04

it down. Yeah, what else did you write down? You

33:07

wanna be a mom. But

33:09

you know what, when I'm asked, what

33:11

are my goals, you know what I want? I

33:14

really mean this, but it's really

33:16

just to be at peace every day. And

33:18

that sounds like a cop out answer, but. No, it does

33:20

not. Have you ever tried to be at peace every day?

33:22

Do you know how hard that is? It's

33:25

harder than getting some of these other big goals. I

33:28

mean it though, just to really be, to

33:30

feel okay with myself and then, you know, so

33:34

much of what inspires choices

33:36

that I make or things that I write or things that I

33:38

do is, I really always try

33:40

to envision things from the perspective of my 90

33:42

year old self. What

33:45

would I had wish I had done right now?

33:48

Right, and that just puts so much into perspective.

33:50

And it's not always the answer that you think

33:52

it will be. It really

33:55

isn't. It really shows

33:57

you in a broader way what really matters

33:59

to you. And my

34:02

peace of mind is truly my

34:04

top priority. Think about all the people who have

34:06

all the things that people think they want. Oh,

34:08

absolutely. Yeah, fame or fortune or whatever it is.

34:10

And look to see what... We

34:14

often ask, why is that person unhappy? They have

34:16

everything. And it's like, it's to

34:18

your point. It's like they don't

34:21

have the thing that they need, which is the

34:23

only thing. Yeah.

34:26

They don't have love or connection or family. Yes.

34:29

They don't have the feeling or, you know, to wake up every day and

34:31

feel okay with who they are. And that peaceful feeling. It's like, you don't

34:33

have the warm hand on your heart, then the rest of it

34:35

is just like... Yeah, sprinting

34:37

100 miles an hour. What's your

34:39

nighttime routine? I know your daytime is to start

34:41

off with a meditation. What do you do before

34:43

you go lights out? Oh,

34:46

I don't really have a routine. Actually,

34:48

I should make with it. No, you should not. No,

34:50

people want to do what you're doing. But are

34:52

you on your phone or do you watch TV or

34:54

do you read or...? It

34:56

depends. Every night's different. I try to

34:59

keep the morning really intentional because I

35:01

feel like it's every

35:03

which direction. Yes, by nighttime you're like, give me a

35:05

break, okay? By nighttime I don't know what's going on.

35:07

I'm not doing any mindful stuff. I actually really mean

35:09

that. No,

35:11

sometimes I'll be on my phone, sometimes I'll answer

35:13

my messages. Yeah, just do stuff. Good, you're normal.

35:15

But I do like to... Oh, good. Yeah,

35:18

I mean, you know. Good. Actually, I

35:20

like to scroll. Oh gosh, this is terrible. You do? You

35:23

know what? Whatever, it's the truth, whatever.

35:25

You're allowed. I do. I think. No

35:28

thoughts. So if you had a day

35:30

that was all for you, this

35:33

podcast is called Making Space because it's about like

35:35

clearing out the way. So if you

35:37

had a day that didn't have an appearance

35:40

or work to write or any of the

35:42

stuff and it was for you and

35:44

you opened your eyes on that particular day

35:46

and you thought, wow, this is... I

35:49

get this day for me. How would you fill

35:51

it? Oh, I could tell you

35:53

right away. I would wake up. Yeah,

35:55

I like it. I'm already in. Yes. I

35:58

would. Later early. early.

36:00

I would wake up, I would have

36:02

my coffee, I would go outside, I would do my

36:04

meditation, I would go for a

36:06

hike to Pangar Malibu.

36:08

Yeah, I would come home and I

36:10

would actually, I would answer messages and

36:12

do some writing. That really brings me

36:14

a lot of joy. That's what I

36:17

would want to do. And

36:19

then I would go to the

36:21

grocery store or something and get

36:24

food or wine and I would

36:26

throw a dinner party. Yes,

36:28

that's exactly what I would do. I would

36:30

have my friends over, we would make Aperol

36:33

spritz. Oh, I like it. Sounds

36:35

like fun. Are you a late party person or do you do

36:37

an early, like a happy hour person?

36:39

I like to, you start at happy hour, but

36:41

then I kind of, the night. Let it linger.

36:43

The best memories of my whole life are, you

36:46

know, late at night with your

36:48

best friends, it's dark, you know, there's like

36:51

plates all over. Yes. Just laughing about the

36:53

stupidest stuff. Love it. The same jokes you've

36:55

told 10,000 times, the same

36:57

memories are still funny to

37:00

me. And then just falling asleep,

37:02

thinking like, just feeling so like warm

37:04

and loved. Guys,

37:06

please get this book. It is called

37:09

The Pivot Year 365 Days to Become the Person You Truly

37:13

Want to Be. It's got great,

37:15

just things you can read each morning, each

37:18

day or each evening, and it'll give your

37:20

day a big boost. Thank

37:22

you so much. This was so fun. It was just

37:24

what I thought it would be. Perfect. I'm

37:27

so glad. Making

37:31

Space with Hoda Kotb is produced

37:34

by Allison Berger and Alexa Kasevekia,

37:36

along with Amanda Sidman and Kate

37:38

Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is

37:41

Juliana Mostro-Rilly. Our audio

37:43

engineer is Katie Lau.

37:45

Original music by John Estes.

37:47

Bryson Barnes is our head of

37:49

audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is

37:51

our executive producer. Libby Least is

37:53

the executive vice president of Today

37:55

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