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painful. One

1:06

thing I've learned on this beautiful journey

1:08

of life is the importance of the

1:10

people you surround yourself with. Now we've

1:12

all got a desire to feel seen

1:14

and supported and most of all connected

1:16

and I feel so incredibly grateful for

1:18

the circle of women that I surround

1:20

myself with. You know the ones who

1:22

cheer me on, they nourish my soul

1:24

and they feel like a warm hand

1:26

on my heart and Maria Shriver, she's

1:29

one of my people. Marie is the

1:31

type of friend who cherishes, cares for,

1:33

and checks in on the people in

1:35

her life. And she's the type of

1:37

friend you can be unapologetically yourself with,

1:39

the friend who will always stand by

1:41

you and with you. Marie is made

1:43

at her life's mission to be an

1:45

architect of change and shine her light

1:47

on others. She's figured out how to

1:49

live a meaningful life as the most

1:51

authentic version of herself. And now she's

1:53

sharing some of the lessons. She's

1:55

learned along the

1:57

way in her latest

1:59

book. It's called

2:01

I Maria. It's coming

2:03

out this April.

2:05

a beautiful collection of poems and

2:07

reflections all about heartbreak. healing

2:10

and finding your way home

2:12

to inspire us all as

2:14

we navigate our own journeys.

2:16

Maria joined me at our

2:18

very first Making Space Wellness

2:20

weekend this past fall together

2:22

with an absolutely incredible group

2:24

of healers, practitioners, experts and

2:26

150 new friends for an

2:28

unforgettable weekend of healing, growth

2:30

and finding everything we did

2:32

not know we needed. We

2:34

had a beautiful conversation all

2:36

about how to live a

2:38

meaningful life. And isn't that

2:40

what it's all about anyway?

2:42

Maria shares her story, her

2:44

wisdom, her insight with a

2:46

beautiful and open heart. This

2:48

conversation has stuck with me

2:50

and now I would like to

2:52

share it all with you. I'm

2:54

Hoda Kotb. Welcome to a

2:56

special episode of my podcast, Making

2:58

Space, live from the Making

3:00

Space Wellness Weekend. Hey,

3:28

girl, hey. There's

3:30

a saying that says you're the sum

3:32

total of the five people you spend

3:35

the most time with. So choose wisely.

3:37

Think about your five. Maria Shriver is

3:39

one of my five. And Maria's, the

3:41

thing I like about Maria so much

3:43

is she's a listener. I don't know

3:45

if you, if you've interacted with her,

3:47

chances are she's asked you, where are

3:49

you from, why are you here, et

3:51

cetera, et cetera. What did you glean

3:53

from what people are saying? Well, first

3:55

of all, I just want to say

3:57

how proud I am of you. for

4:00

doing this. This was

4:03

something that was This

4:05

was a dream. This

4:07

was something that was percolating

4:09

in Hoda's head dream to

4:11

actually make a dream come

4:14

true is a really big

4:16

moment in someone's life. So

4:18

I just want to I shout

4:20

that out to like shout that out first.

4:22

And so I was sitting

4:24

in my room there thinking about

4:26

what I could say today that

4:29

might be different, that would

4:31

be something that I could offer.

4:34

And I started by praying actually

4:36

this morning, which I do

4:38

every morning, and asking for

4:40

what I could say that might

4:42

be different or might be helpful.

4:44

might be And what came to me

4:46

was to tell all of you

4:48

that it's okay that you're here.

4:50

okay that you're here. that you

4:53

don't have to have

4:55

guilt for being here, no

4:57

shame in being here,

4:59

and that you're here because

5:01

something called you here you

5:03

your own life, something

5:05

in you. in you to

5:07

you that said, I want something more.

5:09

want something deserving of

5:11

more. There's more for me out

5:13

there. I'm curious about where

5:15

I could take my life. I

5:17

And I want to applaud that

5:19

because it's really brave to

5:21

go and say, I want to

5:23

take some time for me. I'm

5:26

curious about a phase of my life,

5:28

a next phase of my life. phase of

5:30

my I might not really like where

5:32

I'm at. And I don't really know

5:34

where to go. But I know if

5:36

I go here, I I might hear something

5:39

that will help me. that will help me

5:41

to this next place. And

5:43

I think it's really important to

5:45

actually think about your life. this

5:48

moment in your life, this what

5:51

matters to you, what's

5:53

meaningful. what's to you. to

5:55

you. what came to me

5:57

this morning me this morning talk

5:59

about. because I I think we don't

6:01

do that enough. I think, you know,

6:03

it's funny because because used the word the word

6:05

like I feel like we need permission. I

6:08

need someone to tell me I need Yeah.

6:10

You were saying many years ago, Yeah. You were

6:12

went to a spa of some sort. went to

6:14

a And the voice you kept hearing

6:16

in your head was your kept hearing in

6:18

are you wasting your time at

6:20

that spa? Yeah. should be doing something

6:22

else, something for other people. be raised else,

6:25

for other it's better to be of

6:27

service to everybody be of to serve yourself.

6:29

Yeah, I was like, I think it I think it

6:31

was or or 52 and I went

6:33

to the canyon ranch with my my

6:35

two cousins, asked me people asked me where

6:37

I went and when my mother

6:40

asked me where I went, I said

6:42

I was on a work said I was

6:44

on a work I knew that she

6:46

would be like, what the, the.

6:48

You you went to a what? And

6:50

my my mom was tough. She

6:53

was a change and a force

6:55

of nature. And she came from

6:57

a generation where you did not

6:59

complain she would have She would have

7:01

me out. If me out the, I had

7:03

brought up the concept of self -care,

7:05

she would would have like. you know, like

7:07

whacked me over the head. She said

7:09

constantly, I don't I hear a yip

7:11

out of you or one of

7:13

your out of you or one anything, you're lucky,

7:15

you're privileged, and I get out

7:17

and change the world. you're wasn't,

7:19

and I was like get out you

7:22

know? So the was like, I know,

7:24

and I and that just kept on

7:26

going until she died. you know, and that

7:28

it's still going in my head,

7:30

you know? she But I think, you

7:32

know, that's how she was raised.

7:34

So that's how she raised my

7:37

brothers and myself. But I think

7:39

the idea of myself, care of myself,

7:41

I wasn't brought up with that at

7:43

all. self -care

7:45

wasn't in... I didn't

7:47

You know, the vocabulary. I didn't grow

7:49

up with that vocabulary. I remember you

7:51

told me a story one time that

7:54

you and Oprah were were like on a

7:56

beach or something somewhere. Oprah told you

7:58

that story. Oprah told the story. She

8:00

was on vacation. She was on vacation

8:02

with you. They were chilling out and

8:04

enjoying their time. And it was when

8:06

there was a tsunami in when Asia. I

8:08

think it was 2006. Yeah, it was with

8:11

her. Oh, you weren't with her? you weren't with

8:13

her. I was, it Christmas and she she she

8:15

called me. like, like. I'm in an I I

8:17

rented a boat. I I wanted some

8:19

vacation and this crazy woman chased me

8:21

down the pier with a bathing cap, the

8:23

pier was your mother. cap, And she was

8:26

like, mother, like, she Maria. You both have

8:28

to get going to the Maria, you to

8:30

save the people, raise the money. What are

8:32

you doing? she's like, you have to I'm getting

8:34

my diggy. Don't get in the boat, call

8:36

Maria, are do something. She's like, Mrs. how long is

8:38

she gonna be here? Can I, I'm gonna

8:40

move the boat. I wanna get away, you

8:42

know? do it's was like, know call me and she's

8:44

like, like saw Oprah now I think the two

8:46

of you should get together. I'll organize a

8:48

call. We should do something quickly. Now, this

8:50

should of the essence. quickly I think it was

8:52

Christmas. Thomas I was like, I nobody's working at

8:54

Christmas yeah and I was we are. We're all working

8:56

just you and Oprah, we're the only two

8:58

people on vacation. we are we're all was like, just

9:01

you and over the only two that's the way

9:03

she was. But that was her.

9:05

That was her. was that was her so and Yeah,

9:07

I mean, that's how how, started she

9:09

started She started Olympics, she She was

9:11

determined to change the world

9:13

for people with intellectual disabilities, the

9:15

and she did through just grit,

9:18

resilience, not accepting did, through

9:20

just believing that everybody who

9:22

came to our home. that

9:24

was a permanent volunteer in

9:26

her was a permanent volunteer in her army.

9:28

was the case. the case. Everybody

9:31

did and people would remember when I was

9:33

little I would be like, I don't

9:35

really want to come to your house really

9:37

want to come to your house I like your mother

9:39

scares me She's gonna make you go

9:41

and work as a volunteer in that

9:43

camp as a you know your dad's gonna

9:45

sign me up for the peace gonna really

9:47

don't want to come over there I really

9:49

don't want to come testament to your parents and

9:51

how they operated you went as a

9:53

member of the peace as overseas the Peace

9:55

and you were in some were in horrible

9:57

place and it was scary for you for

9:59

you And you called home, if I got the

10:01

the called home when you were when you were This

10:04

place is terrifying. Someone needs

10:06

to come get me. I don't

10:08

remember where you were. I was

10:10

in Tunisia. I was My father My father

10:12

my parents were very adamant that

10:14

my brothers and I my sure

10:16

that we understood how everybody was

10:19

living. So they were very much

10:21

into community service, obviously. And so

10:23

they sent me, I lived in And

10:25

for several weeks. Not a good

10:27

thing for me. good And And then

10:29

they sent me to Tunisia, Tunis, to live

10:32

and to live and work with And

10:34

I lived I lived with a family Medina,

10:36

and I went with a with a

10:38

she was out of there in 24

10:40

hours. there She was like, She am

10:42

so out of this place. place. And I

10:44

was living with a family who

10:46

had five boys it it was myself And

10:48

there was no running water, no

10:50

toilet, no And they cus cuscus for breakfast, lunch

10:52

and dinner. and was like, this is

10:55

a mistake. is a I have got

10:57

to get out of here. And so I

10:59

called my parents and said, you

11:01

know, obviously nobody speaks English. nobody

11:04

French, but spoke said, but I I need

11:06

to go because I'm living in because I'm

11:08

you know. in the This is not

11:10

safe for me here. not so they

11:12

sent my so they sent my my older

11:14

brother to come and see if I

11:16

was exaggerating. So my older

11:18

my older brother came over and

11:20

he's like, you're such a

11:22

baby, a my Oh my God. He fine, we

11:24

were there. were there. And so me me there

11:27

and sent me the next

11:29

year to Senegal to Africa,

11:31

the same thing. the same thing. And but at the time

11:33

I thought it was a terrible thing but

11:35

it turned out to be in hindsight a

11:37

really good thing. And then I've done this.

11:39

same thing a really good thing. And how you

11:41

operate. I've done the By the way, that

11:43

is exactly how you operate. That's I

11:45

was like, my kids are like, you

11:47

are we being sent? I said, just

11:50

because I I was. And it's funny. So when you are

11:52

funny though. So when you are

11:54

in a family that has such high

11:56

expectations they they probably had a path

11:58

a path you. for you. And for

12:00

someone like you to say, actually

12:02

the path that you guys are

12:05

on, you wanna be a journalist, I

12:07

wanna go down this road. I

12:09

do you find a voice in

12:11

a place that's so, I'll say say

12:13

noisy, but a place where maybe

12:15

you wouldn't be heard? you Well,

12:17

for me, be that was really hard.

12:20

And it continued to be hard,

12:22

I think, to really throughout my

12:24

life in different ways. my life in different ways.

12:26

I decided I wanted to be

12:28

a journalist after spending time on time on

12:30

the campaign trail when my dad

12:32

was vice nominee in in 1972

12:34

I looked at the plane and the

12:37

people in the front who were the

12:39

candidate and all the people working

12:41

for the candidate for stressed out were freaked

12:43

out. And, you know. you know. just

12:45

didn't look like they were having any

12:47

fun and in the back of the

12:49

plane were all the journalists all they were

12:51

the ones having fun were the ones they

12:53

also they to be the ones controlling the

12:56

story. the story. They to be the ones

12:58

telling telling the story. They I thought be the to

13:00

be back here. the story, want to be in

13:02

the back of the plane. in so of the

13:04

out and started to try to get myself

13:06

to the back of the plane in so

13:08

many words. the And so I went to work

13:10

in Philadelphia, went to I went to Baltimore, and

13:12

then I just worked my way up. I

13:14

went to CBS and then and on to

13:16

NBC. And it was a

13:18

way for me to be of

13:20

service, because that's what my parents respected,

13:23

but to do it in my

13:25

own way and in a profession own

13:27

that they actually saw in a

13:29

way actually saw in a way as across the

13:31

line, so to speak. they were

13:33

on this side of the line and

13:35

I was walking into an area

13:37

of people that was reporting on them

13:39

that so I think in the beginning

13:41

they didn't really understand it there

13:43

weren't a lot of women in journalism

13:45

so they thought it was odd

13:47

and I think it. everything I thought a

13:49

thought I would grow out of

13:51

it saying when I so they thought my

13:53

former husband they were like for sure

13:55

you're going to grow out of

13:57

this I would grow out of it. And then I I

13:59

moved California. was also the first

14:01

person in my family or extended

14:03

family to move to California,

14:06

which was you know, their mind

14:08

a terrible idea. And

14:10

And to also then take

14:12

up with someone who was of

14:14

a different political party was

14:16

an even more outrageous idea. But

14:18

as I've looked back on

14:20

it, I was doing that. I

14:22

think, to find my own

14:24

air, to find my

14:26

own breath, actually, to find

14:28

my own way. Because

14:31

growing up in a very

14:33

competitive, well -known family, you

14:35

can either. be

14:37

subsumed by it or you have

14:39

to leave. But I also realized

14:41

that kind of leaving, I'm an

14:43

only girl, I have four brothers,

14:45

and leaving the East Coast, leaving

14:48

my parents to go to the

14:50

West Coast, I think must have

14:52

been really difficult for my parents.

14:54

But I knew I couldn't stay

14:56

and survive. I knew I couldn't

14:58

stay and find my own way,

15:00

become my own person and know

15:02

why I was here if I

15:04

was just following. in

15:07

like this preordained path of

15:09

my family. And

15:11

that has always been

15:14

my desire, my search for

15:16

why am I here? How am

15:18

I different from this group

15:20

of people? And I grew up

15:22

being very kind of just

15:24

confused with everybody. It was like,

15:26

which Kennedy are you? You

15:28

have hair, you have teeth, you're

15:30

just one of all of

15:32

these other people. And that was

15:35

funny but also actually sad

15:37

because it robbed you of being

15:39

a person in yourself. And

15:41

so I never felt like I

15:43

was Maria. And then when I

15:45

would say, I'm Maria, they'd be like, no,

15:47

no, no, no, no, But like, which Kennedy

15:49

are you? Which one are you? And I'd be

15:51

like, no, I'm Maria, like, no, but, and

15:53

I was like, oh, okay. Well, that's not

15:55

enough. And so I think my whole drive was

15:57

like, who is Maria? And

16:00

so it was by by talking

16:02

to people, by interviewing people, a way

16:04

by, in a way, interviewing

16:06

myself, a has been a journey

16:08

to answer that question. it I

16:10

thought it was pretty profound. that told

16:12

me when you were married to

16:14

Arnold to you felt.

16:17

invisible. And one of the words

16:19

I of the words I would never use

16:21

about you be that that like when like when

16:23

you walk in a room, everybody

16:25

knows it. There's something about you. How

16:27

did you feel that way? I I

16:29

think you can feel like I'm

16:32

sure everybody in here at some point

16:34

has felt invisible felt their

16:36

life, has felt small in their

16:38

life. I think it's a very

16:40

human feeling. and I And I think

16:42

particularly women often feel like that.

16:44

And so oftentimes and can walk

16:46

in the room you can walk in the room

16:49

people don't see you. They don't

16:51

know you. may know you as, you

16:53

as you know, so -and -so's daughter. or so-and-so's

16:55

wife so -and -so's. mother,

16:57

but they don't really know you. I

16:59

And I think that can create

17:01

a feeling of being invisible. And

17:04

I think that even though I

17:06

grew up in a very famous

17:08

family, I was I was invisible as

17:10

a human in that family. I

17:12

I was part of a family,

17:14

and that's what was visible. And

17:16

I think I didn't always feel

17:19

invisible with Arnold. with I think when

17:21

you're married to somebody to somebody super

17:23

behave a certain a around people who

17:25

are super famous who are super knock

17:27

you down to get to that person,

17:29

walk over you to get to

17:31

that person, and it can make you

17:34

to that person and it can make who am

17:36

I and what am I

17:38

doing here what am I I matter? do

17:40

I so for me, it was

17:42

really important that I

17:44

raise children who felt like they

17:46

were a priority in a public

17:48

family. I wanted to guard

17:50

their privacy. I wanted to make

17:52

sure they were not part of

17:54

political pamphlets, that they were not

17:56

used as props, as that they

17:59

were they were the stars. of our home. And

18:01

that for me was something that

18:03

I was really passionate about, that

18:05

they feel that they were the

18:07

of equal importance to whatever their

18:10

mom or dad was doing, that

18:12

they were valued, that they were

18:14

for distinct individuals, but also collectively,

18:16

you know, a family, but that

18:18

regardless of what their dad was

18:20

doing or what I was doing

18:22

or what family they came from,

18:25

what they were doing was important.

18:27

And that was really and continues

18:29

to be, I think for me,

18:31

something that I take super seriously

18:33

to make sure that they feel

18:35

that whatever they're doing isn't overshadowed.

18:37

by what their parents are doing.

18:40

And that's an ongoing piece of

18:42

work. People are always asking you

18:44

about how you raise up your

18:46

kids. You've got great kids. They

18:48

want to be around each other.

18:50

They want to be around you.

18:52

Yeah. I remember you told me

18:55

that when Maria comes into her

18:57

home and there are children there,

18:59

kids, her sons or daughters and

19:01

their friends, they stand up. Yeah.

19:03

I make them stand up. She

19:05

makes them literally. I used to

19:07

make them now. They just do

19:10

stand up. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.

19:12

Well, my mother did that. So

19:14

there's many things that I've emulated

19:16

from my mother, but she, my

19:18

grandmother and my mother, and were

19:20

big on manners. So, you know,

19:22

when somebody who was older walked

19:25

in the room, aka my mother.

19:27

everybody stood up. You know, when

19:29

we went to the dinner table,

19:31

everybody had to have something to

19:33

bring to the table to talk

19:35

about, to converse about. My mother

19:37

would be like, what's your opinion

19:40

of, you know, the gospel? What's

19:42

your opinion of what the president

19:44

said today? And, you know, you

19:46

could be 10, 11, 1920, but

19:48

like, you had to like step

19:50

up. And so I wanted my

19:52

kids to, you know, when I

19:55

walked in the room or their

19:57

dad walked in the room or

19:59

you would walk in the room

20:01

that they, you know, stand up

20:03

out of respect. And so when

20:05

their friends would come over, I'd

20:07

be like, aha. And I'd say,

20:10

because my mother did that, she's

20:12

standing in the door and she

20:14

goes, aha. And then everybody go,

20:16

oh, up. And so I, you

20:18

know, started doing that with my

20:20

kids' friends because, you know, I

20:22

didn't want to walk in the

20:25

room and they'd be sitting at

20:27

a walk in the room. Let's,

20:29

you know, here we are, here

20:31

we are, and here I am,

20:33

and look me in the eye,

20:35

say hello, thank me for coming,

20:37

write me a thank you note

20:40

if I take you somewhere. That

20:42

sort of stuff, and even though

20:44

my kids moaned and groaned about

20:46

it, they now say it was

20:48

a good thing. I don't know,

20:50

but they say it. More ahead

20:53

with Maria Shriver. Stay with us.

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22:30

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23:05

the topic that you think to

23:07

lot of people came here a

23:09

they know the topic that you

23:11

like to talk about which is

23:13

a meaningful life, like makes a meaningful

23:15

life. I feel like you've been

23:17

a student, a seeker, and

23:19

whether you're at NBC, and

23:21

when Maria walks in the makeup room at NBC, she

23:24

doesn't come in spewing knowledge. she

23:26

has more than all of us put together. us put

23:28

does nothing but ask questions

23:30

ask questions Laura who's doing hair,

23:33

Mary who's doing Mary comes in. makeup,

23:35

having a rough day. She's asking

23:37

a million questions, but

23:39

what constitutes what how can

23:41

you find a meaningful

23:43

life? life? Well I Well, I

23:45

think, first of all, everybody here

23:47

is living a meaningful life.

23:49

I think you start from the

23:51

fact that you're here. that Each

23:53

of us is a divine

23:56

miracle. I believe that regardless of

23:58

whatever your religious affiliation, it's mere. a

24:00

call. that you're here. It's

24:02

a miracle. And then

24:04

figuring out why you're here. You

24:06

are here, I believe, to do

24:08

something meaningful with your life. I

24:12

mean, there's no question in my

24:14

mind that we're all here for

24:16

that specific reason. And what's meaningful

24:18

to you, to you too, it's

24:20

all difference for so many people

24:22

living a meaningful life. You might

24:24

find meaning out of raising your

24:26

children and that gives you meaning.

24:28

You might find meaning in your

24:30

work. You might find meaning by

24:32

starting a non -profit or an

24:35

organization or helping your community.

24:37

And that can change. I found myself

24:39

over the decades, I keep checking

24:41

in, and my life has changed

24:43

dramatically over the decades. But I

24:45

try to kind of think forward,

24:47

who do I want to be

24:49

and where do I want to

24:51

be when I'm 85? What do

24:53

I, who do I want in

24:55

that open field and at that

24:57

table with me? And I try

24:59

to put in the work now.

25:03

to make sure. that when

25:05

I'm 85, God willing, that

25:07

those people are at my table.

25:09

So I try to you

25:11

know, invest in my friends.

25:14

I invest in my family.

25:16

I invest in my faith,

25:18

which which directs everything that

25:20

I do. And I try

25:22

to use my being and

25:24

my voice on behalf of work

25:26

that I hope will help

25:29

other people. So whether it's my

25:31

journalism, I look at it

25:33

as service journalism. I don't believe

25:35

in gotcha journalism. I don't

25:37

believe in aggressive journalism like that.

25:39

I believe in a journalism

25:41

that's focused on the truth, but

25:43

it's also of service. try

25:45

to, my Alzheimer's work is of

25:47

service. My Mosh are of

25:50

service. They raise money for research.

25:53

Even the Sunday paper started

25:55

out of a love of

25:57

writing and wanting to reach

26:00

people's hearts and minds

26:02

and elevate the voices of other

26:04

people. But I think

26:06

all of us have to

26:08

decide what matters in our

26:11

life life separate from who we

26:13

might be married to, separate

26:15

from our parents, separate from

26:17

the shoulds of our lives.

26:19

And I think that comes

26:21

by first being in quiet.

26:23

quiet. I'm a a big advocate of

26:26

silence. I'm a big

26:28

advocate of spending time

26:30

really really interviewing yourself. You

26:32

know, who am I You know, who am I

26:34

today at I at 55? Who am I am I

26:36

at 55? Who am I at? to me?

26:38

Well, at 40, important to me? really

26:42

At 40, this is what was

26:44

really important, but at 50, maybe

26:46

my kids are grown else and something

26:48

else might be kind of becoming

26:50

more important. that's scary, I think,

26:52

for a lot of people. of

26:55

And I I think... One of the

26:57

things, so I think that's a big thing

26:59

to know your your path is.

27:01

And there's always that saying that

27:03

if you're that if of. a

27:05

Kind of worn you're on the wrong

27:07

path. wrong path you wanna be on

27:09

a path that's rocky. rocky.

27:12

bumpy, that's dark, that

27:14

that you don't know where the

27:16

hell you're going, hell because that means

27:18

it's your path. mean it's your path and I

27:20

would say that my path has

27:22

been really. bumpy and it's it's

27:24

been frigid. dark. And it's

27:26

also been it's also been

27:28

beautiful, right? And

27:30

I think that's the thing I've

27:32

learned as as I I really

27:35

became older into my 50s my I got I

27:37

got divorced, it was a,

27:39

like. And it, but it showed me what

27:41

I was made of. But it showed me

27:43

what I was made of. It

27:45

showed me that many of the things,

27:47

my mother with when my mother died,

27:49

I thought I'd never survive. my I

27:52

did. Then my father died. I thought,

27:54

oh, am I I'll be an orphan. won't

27:56

be, I who will I belong to?

27:58

I belong to? survived. When my

28:00

marriage ended, I thought, that's it,

28:02

I'm over, I'm done, you know,

28:04

I'm nothing, I don't know who

28:07

I am. I did. I found

28:09

a new version of myself and

28:11

that's what is so wonderful I

28:13

think about life. If you continue

28:15

to ask yourself, why am I

28:17

here? What matters to me? Who

28:19

am I today? There's no wrong

28:21

answer to that. And you just

28:24

keep going deeper and deeper and

28:26

you keep blooming as you go

28:28

deeper and you keep evolving as

28:30

you go deeper and you surprise

28:32

yourself. And then you have this

28:34

life that maybe you never even

28:36

dreamt of. dream of this five

28:38

years ago, 10 years ago, but

28:41

it's only by going deeper, by

28:43

asking questions, by going, yeah, let's

28:45

try that, let's go over there.

28:47

We went to Maraval to go

28:49

for the weekend and we were

28:51

like, oh, maybe this is a

28:53

good place to do a thing.

28:56

And then we're like, yeah, maybe

28:58

we should do this. But it

29:00

came from like, experiences, adventures, trying,

29:02

asking, and something will come for

29:04

you from this. that you didn't

29:06

even know coming into this, right?

29:08

Something will stir in you that

29:10

might take you to the left

29:13

or the right or somewhere else.

29:15

And that's great. Even though it

29:17

may be scary, that's great. And

29:19

I just want to reiterate to

29:21

people all the time that, you

29:23

know, this is great Emerson quote,

29:25

that everything you need is within

29:27

you already. It's there. Don't ever

29:30

doubt that you can. can't do

29:32

something that you can't go over

29:34

here, you can't go to the

29:36

left or the right, you can.

29:38

I'm telling you 1,000% you can.

29:40

You are made to do that.

29:42

You are made for tough times

29:45

and you are made for great

29:47

times. You are made for love,

29:49

you are made for heartbreak, you

29:51

are made for joy, you are

29:53

made for grief. That's what really

29:55

constitutes a life and I don't

29:57

think we talk enough about the

29:59

benefits of suffering. of pain, the

30:02

reality of grief and trauma, and

30:04

how it all encompasses what is

30:06

a meaningful life. You can't have

30:08

a meaningful life if you don't

30:10

know grief. You can't have a

30:12

meaningful life if your heart hasn't

30:14

been broken. And I'm a big

30:16

believer and I wish somebody had

30:19

told me that because I spent

30:21

a lot of time holding on

30:23

thinking, you know, like, want to

30:25

make sure everything stays here because

30:27

I don't want to have any

30:29

more trauma. That's a fool's errand.

30:31

And I think that, you know,

30:34

people need to tell other people,

30:36

there's nothing wrong with you if

30:38

you have fallen down, if your

30:40

marriage didn't work out, if you

30:42

got fired from your job, I

30:44

got fired from my job, my

30:46

marriage didn't work out, right? There's

30:48

a lot of stuff that happens

30:51

in a life. It all adds

30:53

up to make a beautiful life

30:55

depending on our perspective and depending

30:57

on how strong we feel and

30:59

how well we know ourselves and

31:01

how well we love ourselves and

31:03

how well we love ourselves and

31:05

how well we believe in ourselves.

31:08

Because if we don't do it,

31:10

no one else is going to

31:12

do it for us. The faith

31:14

piece of your life is important.

31:16

You've said it a few times.

31:18

It's like center. It's how you

31:20

start your day. It's how you

31:23

end your day. How has it

31:25

evolved for you? Well, both of

31:27

my parents were deep. really religious

31:29

Catholics. They went to church every

31:31

single day. And so I went

31:33

to the convent of the Sacred

31:35

Heart and then I went on

31:37

to Georgetown. So I was educated

31:40

by the nuns and the Jesuits.

31:42

And I grew up in a

31:44

house where as I said, if

31:46

you weren't running for president or

31:48

becoming a nun or a priest,

31:50

get out. You know, it was

31:52

like, you were not even at

31:54

the table. So I grew up

31:57

with that kind of, that was

31:59

people who were nuns and at

32:01

that time, that vocation was really

32:03

revered. And I remember when I

32:05

was in grade school and I

32:07

would ask the nuns, you know,

32:09

like, well, how did you become

32:12

a nun? Because, you know, my

32:14

mother was always talking about the

32:16

nuns and. and she was always

32:18

having nuns over. And I remember

32:20

she was like, I want you

32:22

to come downstairs and meet this

32:24

nun. I'm like, oh, God. Like,

32:26

every time is a nun. It's

32:29

like, all over here, you know.

32:31

And it was Mother Teresa. Oh,

32:33

you know. And I, yeah. One

32:35

of my brothers sent me a

32:37

picture and she's there at the

32:39

time. I'm like. But my parents,

32:41

you know, they had like the

32:43

Berrigan brothers, the fathers over who

32:46

were like social activists and stuff.

32:48

And so, but I asked the

32:50

nuns in my school like, well,

32:52

how'd she become a nun? And

32:54

they were like, you know, I

32:56

was just a girl just like

32:58

you. And one day I went

33:01

home and I was in my

33:03

room and God or Jesus appeared

33:05

to me and said, I want

33:07

you to be a nun. I

33:09

was like, so I would go

33:11

home every day, go, do not

33:13

come in the road. Do not

33:15

come in the road. I was

33:18

like, I don't, but I, I

33:20

feel actually, you know, I think

33:22

I, I resisted my faith. You

33:24

know, I was like, I like

33:26

boys, I like sex, get out.

33:28

You know, but I have. you

33:30

know, kind of embraced my faith,

33:32

you know, so I went, you

33:35

know, I was taught by the

33:37

nuns, taught by the priests, and

33:39

then I, um, I battled my

33:41

faith, um, as a woman in

33:43

the Catholic Church, and, uh, but

33:45

it's a big part of my

33:47

life. I go to church every

33:50

week, I pray every day, and

33:52

I feel, I feel in many

33:54

ways, like, I'm. a servant of

33:56

my faith. I'm walking my faith.

33:58

I'm in my faith. trying

34:00

to do God's work in whatever

34:02

way I'm moving through the world.

34:05

And it gives me, it makes

34:07

me feel that I'm not alone

34:09

in the world. My relationship with

34:11

God, my relationship with prayer. my It

34:13

helped me in a really dark

34:16

time. me in a have found it.

34:18

I have found it. you know,

34:20

even with my parents were... sick,

34:22

when my mother died, I, my faith

34:25

was died, my helped me

34:27

navigate me navigate And I don't

34:29

know where I would

34:31

be without my... be without

34:33

my faith. And, um... And

34:35

I appreciate people of all different faiths.

34:37

I have, you know, in my home,

34:39

I have my I have have have,

34:41

Kuan name it, I have it, I

34:43

I have Jesus, have Jesus, I'm like

34:45

people say to me, I'm talking

34:47

about Jesus, I'm like, where's

34:49

Mary? Let's talk about Mary. Jesus, I'm

34:51

like, where's you know, and I'm

34:53

really interested in I'm, you know, and I'm really

34:55

who give their in people who

34:58

give their life. to to God. I'm

35:00

really interested in the work of

35:02

the the which is quite

35:04

extraordinary. I mean

35:06

I the social justice work of

35:08

nuns around the world is quite

35:10

amazing. And I just And I

35:12

just find people who that that kind

35:14

of work. and who have that who

35:16

have that kind of

35:19

contemplative, almost monastic life, super

35:21

interesting to me to me and

35:23

super inspirational to me. so

35:25

so I try to spend a

35:27

lot of time of with people

35:29

who have either given their

35:31

entire lives over to God or who

35:33

are who are somehow walking alongside

35:36

their faith today. get to think let's

35:38

lot of people get to

35:40

certain, you let's talk age for

35:42

a second, you get to certain

35:44

ages in your life feel like, like,

35:46

you know, the you know, the best

35:48

stuff is behind me now, now,

35:50

you know, whether it's people some

35:52

people even at 40 start to

35:54

feel funky, 50, 60, 70,

35:57

whatever those, I feel like

35:59

there's been a. whole reset on aging.

36:01

And I know you did a

36:03

whole thing on reframing aging, but

36:05

maybe just speak to the fact

36:07

that sometimes you feel like, well,

36:09

maybe I'm too old for filling

36:11

the blank, whatever it is. No,

36:13

I don't feel that at all.

36:15

I never, I mean, I have

36:17

two 30 year old daughters in

36:19

there. And so many of the

36:21

young women that come over to

36:23

my house, they're like, I'm so

36:25

old. I'm so old, I'm 30,

36:28

I'm 32. Oh my God, I'm

36:30

having like a breakdown or I'm

36:32

like, what? I'm

36:34

like, what? You're like 33 or

36:36

they're like, it's over. I have

36:38

to go and get Botox, I'm

36:40

wrinkled. I'm like, oh my God.

36:42

I'm like, honey, fuck her up,

36:44

fuck her up, fuck her up.

36:46

But I find, you know, I

36:48

love being in my 60s. I

36:50

feel like I know myself, I

36:52

feel healthy. I mean, I think

36:54

health has a huge component to

36:56

how one feels about age. And

36:58

so let's start from that point

37:00

of view. think, so I think

37:02

if you are healthy, if you

37:04

have friends, so let's also adjust

37:06

that because I think as many

37:08

people age, their friends may pass

37:10

away or their lives change in

37:12

many ways and they find themselves

37:14

without friends or without their health.

37:16

And then it's tough. I think

37:18

aging is tough. And I think

37:20

we have an ageist society. And

37:22

I think that's important to call

37:24

that out in every way, shape,

37:27

and form. People tell me all

37:29

the time, I can't get a

37:31

job or I was let go

37:33

of my job because of my

37:35

age or I can't get insurance

37:37

because of my age. So I

37:39

think the country has to really

37:41

catch up to

37:43

how many people are aging in

37:45

our country and how many people

37:47

are aging alone in our country.

37:49

How many people need care in

37:51

our country? We have no coming

37:53

back to stand up in the

37:55

room, respect for aging, respect for

37:57

the... For elders, you know, it's

38:00

much more prevalent in other societies

38:02

than in the United States And

38:04

so I think that's advocacy work.

38:06

I think it's political work And

38:08

I think it's something that we

38:10

all have to push up against

38:12

fight against and be the best

38:14

examples I think particularly for our

38:16

children that you know ages I

38:18

want my children to see me

38:20

vital. I want them to see

38:22

me working. I want them to

38:24

see me happy I want them

38:27

to see me talking about things

38:29

I surround myself a lot with

38:31

young people to keep me, you

38:33

know, current so that I know

38:35

what's going on and that I'm,

38:37

you know, current. and And I

38:39

want my kids not to be

38:42

afraid of aging and I want

38:44

and I want for everybody. as

38:46

as well, but I make no mistake

38:48

that aging is, know, we do live

38:51

in an age society and so we

38:53

have to take that into account. So

38:55

when you feel like, wow, you know,

38:57

I'm feeling that is I go to

38:59

try to change my job or something,

39:01

that's real. Mm -hmm That's real. And

39:03

I think we have to push up

39:05

against it and honor it. And then

39:08

that's why I think so many women

39:10

are becoming entrepreneurs at 50. They're starting

39:12

their own businesses. They're becoming consultants. And

39:14

I often say that to women who've

39:16

said, well, you know, I'm a mother

39:18

or when I was first lady of

39:20

California, women would come up to me

39:22

all the time and say like, I'm

39:24

just a mother. I said, get rid

39:26

of the word just So often we

39:28

put the just in front of whatever

39:30

it is, how often describing we her. I'm

39:32

just. to school teacher. I'm

39:34

just You name it,

39:36

none of us are just. Right,

39:40

that's why my new book

39:42

is I Am Maria. I'm

39:44

not just X Y, and

39:46

Z, and none of you

39:48

are either. and so, but

39:51

there's so many women who

39:53

are brave enough to start

39:55

new businesses, Consultings nonprofits, and

39:57

doing so many Um

40:00

you know, trying to access capital, but

40:02

that's also a challenge as a woman

40:04

entrepreneur and that's a real thing too.

40:06

But I think, We're

40:08

all here to change.

40:11

our society to change our culture.

40:13

And we do that with how we

40:15

live our lives, with how we

40:17

use our voices and how we conduct

40:19

ourselves. I'm a big believer in

40:21

that. And the only way to reframe

40:24

aging, to reframe what it means to be

40:26

a woman in her 60s, to reframe what

40:28

it means to be a mother, what it

40:30

means to be a professional, what it means

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to live a meaningful life is to just

40:34

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great. great. be great. I have

42:04

to say that Maria has

42:07

really helped me and guided

42:09

me on a lot of I

42:11

have to say decisions. has really

42:13

helped me and guided me

42:15

on a lot of my big

42:17

life decisions, and I think

42:19

what she does, and she had me

42:21

do an... she was you may

42:23

remember. it. out. was like, get a

42:26

platter was was like that she was get

42:28

a platter. And so I was like, all

42:30

right, I got a platter, get a piece

42:32

of paper. I was like on the

42:34

phone with her. All right, hold on, with

42:36

a piece of paper. She said, write down

42:38

a piece of single thing that is requiring your

42:40

time, that your attention, your and your heart,

42:42

whatever it is, your kids, whatever it is,

42:44

little piece of paper, work, piece

42:46

cut a piece of paper,

42:48

hobbies, of paper, hobbies, exercise, family,

42:51

everything that Now she said, take each each

42:53

piece of paper where you've written that

42:55

that on make sure it's to scale

42:57

of the amount of time you spend

42:59

on it. You know, You I thought

43:01

my kids were bigger, but but my

43:03

work was bigger at the time. was

43:05

I wrote everything out and I

43:07

literally laid it on a platter laid

43:09

she said, look at it. and she said,

43:11

look Do you like it? like it? That's

43:14

your life. You've chosen this life. this This

43:16

is how you've chosen to live it.

43:18

to It was looking at my life

43:20

from 30 ,000 feet. I did not like.

43:22

not like my life was divided up.

43:24

I didn't think about it about

43:26

I was too busy. busy. running and

43:28

running and running the way we all

43:31

do, because we're busy. So you don't

43:33

ever hit pause. And I I think one

43:35

of the things that you do a

43:37

lot is you hit pause. You You

43:39

say, let me stop and reflect. it in

43:41

You do it in the summertime. if you follow

43:43

if you follow Marie on Instagram, sometimes

43:46

she'll put up something that says, I'm

43:48

stopping down. down. I need a month and

43:50

I'm I'm not gonna post anything because

43:52

I have to recharge. There's There's an importance

43:54

to like hitting the pause button. think

43:56

I think everybody here a way is doing that

43:58

this right? You're hitting

44:01

the button on what

44:03

is your kind of

44:05

normal life normal life. And I think

44:07

you're you're putting a to

44:09

to what you normally

44:11

do do. And you're coming

44:13

here once again once again.

44:15

Why? You're coming coming

44:17

here for something. There's

44:19

something inside of you. of you

44:22

that... is bringing you here. And

44:24

so pause with that. Think about

44:26

what that is. For me, I

44:28

find pausing and writing. and

44:30

I write to know what I'm

44:32

thinking. I write to understand what

44:34

I'm feeling. I write to figure

44:36

out where I'm going and what

44:38

makes sense to me. So in

44:41

the morning, I write. I feel

44:43

this way. I woke up with

44:45

anxiety. I woke up with fear. woke

44:47

What am I afraid of? I

44:49

I that out. So that might help

44:51

help those moments. when you pause when

44:53

you pause to to yourself about what

44:55

you're feeling and what you feel

44:57

in that pause. I feel like

44:59

I should want more. I feel

45:02

like I deserve more. I feel

45:04

like, how do I do that?

45:06

And then start to just find

45:08

your way through, you know, some you know,

45:10

some people find it through painting, Some

45:12

people find it through writing. Some

45:14

people find it through through walking in

45:16

Some people find it

45:19

all different music, right? right? And,

45:21

but I think think it's really important

45:23

because life goes so quickly

45:25

and you're not the same person.

45:27

same today that you were six months

45:29

ago. six months you're not the same

45:31

person that you were last week. Think

45:34

about what's gone on in your life

45:36

just this year alone. in your life just

45:38

You're different. alone. You're different.

45:40

And And you have to stop and

45:42

let that difference, of course you

45:44

don't have to do anything. to do anything.

45:47

I should like lose the the word have to,

45:49

but it's a gift to yourself

45:51

to stop to think about what has

45:53

been the impact. impact. of all of

45:55

of that. on your life.

45:57

What do What do you do with that? that?

46:00

Where does that take you? you? How how

46:02

can it take you somewhere

46:04

that maybe you never imagined six

46:06

months ago or a year

46:08

ago? think And I think that's

46:10

what you're doing. life is taking

46:12

you somewhere you never imagined. It's

46:14

taking you in a direction

46:17

you never even thought about. And

46:19

it's only happening because

46:21

you you you paused and

46:23

you started thinking. something

46:25

Something else out, something else out there. out

46:28

Took your time. time. It's It's been

46:30

going on for a long time. time. And at

46:32

And at some point, you're like, now. So there's

46:34

no hurry here, there's no if here, your 60s or in

46:36

if 50s, in your the other or in

46:38

your 50s, I think that's the other

46:40

thing that I from people. Like I out

46:42

my I have to figure out my

46:44

purpose. I don't know what my purpose

46:47

is now. I have to go over

46:49

here. know, that I think know, that I

46:51

think is something that society puts on

46:53

us. You have to figure out your

46:55

purpose by know, know. You know, kids come over to

46:57

my house like, I don't know my

46:59

purpose, what's my purpose? I'm like, you're

47:01

not gonna get it from I'm like, my

47:03

purpose, what's my purpose, it right? like, And

47:05

we're purpose? actually in our purpose right

47:07

here. Your purpose is right here. actually in our

47:09

in your purpose by being here. purpose is

47:12

right in your calling in being

47:14

here. by being And whatever that voice

47:16

is, and it's different for every

47:18

person in this room, it's gonna

47:20

guide you. to guide in ways

47:22

you never never if you allow

47:24

it, it. if you pause to

47:26

listen to it, if you

47:28

honor it. give and give it the

47:30

space. you make space you make

47:32

space. own calling hear your own

47:34

calling and your own mission, because we

47:36

all have it. only and

47:39

the only person who can decide what it

47:41

is is you. you. It It doesn't

47:43

come from asking anybody. It

47:45

comes from asking yourself. asking yourself.

47:48

That's what I have learned. Wow, wow, wow,

47:50

wow. wow, wow. Maria, I right, so Maria,

47:52

I love you. I love you so

47:54

much. I love you, I love

47:56

you. I get Maria's book. I It's

47:58

called know Am Maria, and I don't

48:00

know about you, but I'm standing

48:02

up for book. but I Hey

48:10

guys, thank you so much for listening

48:12

and for coming on this journey with me.

48:14

If you like what you heard and

48:16

I hope that you do, please give Making

48:19

Space a five -star rating and review on

48:21

Apple Podcasts. And make sure you tell

48:23

your friends, follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

48:25

or wherever you're listening right now. Making

48:28

Space with Hodakati is produced by

48:31

by Allison Berger, Alexa Casa Vecchio, and

48:33

Ashley Williams. along with

48:35

Kate Kate Saunders. Our our associate audio

48:37

engineer. is Juliana Mosturili. Our Our

48:39

audio engineer is Lao.

48:41

Original music by by Bryson Barnes

48:43

is Barnes is our head

48:45

of audio production, Parsons Parsons

48:48

is our executive producer, Libby

48:50

Leashed is the executive vice of

48:52

Today of Today and Lifestyle. Imagine

49:02

Imagine what's possible when learning doesn't

49:04

get in the way of life. life. At

49:06

At Capella University, our flex learning format

49:09

lets you learn on your own

49:11

schedule. own A different future is closer

49:13

than you think than Capella University. Learn

49:15

more at Learn more at Capella.EDU.