0:00

The reason why Amazon is

0:02

successful, the reason why Jeff

0:04

Basos is this Jeff Basos

0:06

is about what do consumers

0:08

want, they went faster, cheaper,

0:10

more convenient, and that's what

0:13

Solana delivers. It's faster,

0:15

cheaper, more convenient. And

0:17

that's why it's done a

0:19

fantastic job, basically taking almost

0:22

100% of incremental new users

0:24

and activity last year in

0:27

crypto. In Chinese, belief also means

0:29

trust. We want to trust our

0:31

systems and each other, so we

0:33

can build a future beyond what

0:35

we know. Join us at consensus Hong

0:38

Kong, where belief becomes real. Hello and

0:40

welcome to Markets Daily hosted by me,

0:42

Jen Sinase. On this show, we navigate

0:44

the current shaping the crypto markets, providing

0:47

insights against the broader financial landscape. So

0:49

whether you're actively trading or simply fascinated

0:51

by the volatility that is the crypto

0:54

markets, this show is your compass to

0:56

understanding what's happened, where we are, and

0:58

where we're going. On today's show, we're

1:00

joined by general partner at Ventura Capital,

1:03

Cosmo Jen. Hi, Jen, how are you? I am doing

1:05

fantastic, fantastic, the, you know, we watch

1:07

the markets here on this show and

1:09

this week has been a good one.

1:11

We've seen a few small ups and

1:13

downs, but I'd love to start the

1:15

show off by asking this question. What

1:18

are you watching today? What's standing out

1:20

to you? Yeah, I mean, look, I think all

1:22

eyes are clearly on Trump and the

1:24

election and the pace of regulatory action

1:26

that could come out of, that could

1:29

come out of the new administration.

1:31

You know it's been a little slow out

1:33

of the gate. I think a lot

1:35

of people were worried about about not

1:37

much happening and so you know it

1:39

makes sense that it's not top priority

1:42

for him but certainly some stuff

1:44

like setting up the crypto council

1:46

or sorry the crypto like a crypto

1:49

effort on in the SEC and then

1:51

and putting in place really really

1:53

supportive you know acting chairman of

1:55

the SEC and CFTC have been

1:57

really helpful. So we're seeing good

1:59

action. good good movement and then in

2:01

the market you know things are things

2:04

are looking better because of this optimism

2:06

there was this wall of worry around

2:08

the sell the news inauguration day but

2:10

that's that's past and we can start

2:12

focusing on the things that have great

2:14

fundamentals and great stories you mentioned the

2:17

crypto task force there you mentioned you

2:19

know dong Trump taking office having all

2:21

these promises to the crypto industry and

2:23

it really seems like he's coming

2:26

true to those promises this week. You

2:28

know, we recently saw that Ross Albert

2:30

was pardoned. And my question to you

2:33

is, you know, in this industry, we

2:35

have been waiting a long time for

2:37

many of the things that have happened

2:39

in the last year to happen. And

2:42

they have finally happened. And so where

2:44

do we go from here? And how

2:46

do you expect the markets to act

2:49

from here now that many of these?

2:51

major events we've been waiting for are

2:53

coming to fruition. Yeah. I mean, look,

2:55

I do think it's really hard to

2:58

understate the importance of this like political

3:00

and regulatory inflection. It really is a

3:02

paradigm shift for the blotching industry. And

3:04

I know you said, I think you

3:07

said that some of the things have

3:09

happened, but actually not that many things

3:11

have happened yet. So there's a lot

3:13

still to come, which we're really excited

3:16

about. Right. The short-term price action in

3:18

the market has certainly been nice. But

3:20

the longer term implications of the election

3:23

are very profound. You know, from a,

3:25

from an alligator perspective, like when you

3:27

think about the reasons why prospective investors

3:29

say no to the industry or have

3:32

said no to the industry in the

3:34

past, the first thing is often lack

3:36

of regulatory clarity and the regulatory pushback.

3:38

Well, that number one bear case is

3:41

now gone, right? We have a very

3:43

supportive administration. We are very supportive climate

3:45

for digital asset growth, which is extremely

3:48

exciting, which is extremely exciting. And then

3:50

in terms of the things that could

3:52

actually happen, I think it does start

3:54

with, you know, some of the regulation

3:57

things that might happen, whether that's, you

3:59

know, the. the talks around the Bitcoin

4:01

strategic reserve, potential ETF filings, which I

4:03

think we could see as early as

4:06

this week or next, you know, e-staking,

4:08

Salana, and the dropping of

4:10

just unhelpful regulatory actions like SAB

4:12

121 or Wells notices, and eventually

4:15

longer term, you know, stable coin

4:17

and digital asset market structure regulation.

4:19

All those is still yet to

4:22

come. I think those will be

4:24

just so transformative for. capital flows

4:26

in the industry and for

4:28

entrepreneurial interest and innovation in

4:30

the industry. A few things you said I want

4:33

to touch on there, but the first is, you

4:35

know, looking at the markets today, how would you

4:37

be looking to allocate a portfolio? Yeah, I

4:39

mean, look, I think it's, I think,

4:41

I sort of think of the blockchain

4:44

industry and two major buckets, one being

4:46

just like Bitcoin and then there's blocking

4:48

the technology, which is everything else. And

4:50

I think Bitcoin is very obviously found.

4:52

product market fit. I think the story

4:55

on Bitcoin is very clear to most

4:57

people in the world now, which is

4:59

it is digital gold and increasingly more

5:01

more people believe that. Frankly, the election

5:03

while very good for Bitcoin was

5:05

really, really didn't change anything about the

5:07

Bitcoin story, right? And so, and so

5:09

nothing for Bitcoin has changed other than

5:12

maybe more recognition. It's really for everything

5:14

else outside of Bitcoin or blushing technology

5:16

as we define it, which is, you

5:18

know, you know, Solana's, Ethereum, or DeFi,

5:20

you're deepen of a space. that's where the

5:22

real change actually happens where actually

5:24

the election changed everything for them now

5:27

these tokens can actually have a function

5:29

have a function and have a real use

5:31

case and and so that's that's really exciting

5:33

so as I think about allocating today it's

5:35

like you know certainly there's a reason for

5:38

people to have big corner in the portfolio

5:40

and and I think it has it will

5:42

continue to do well it's probably closer to

5:44

mid innings than late then early innings. But

5:46

for blockchain to technology, which is everything

5:48

else, which is, you know, your longer

5:50

tail tokens, their alts, it's still super early

5:53

innings and that's where we're spending all our

5:55

time and really excited. You mentioned, okay, a

5:57

few things I want to, I want to touch on, I

5:59

don't want to. trade too far away from

6:01

the ETFs. You mentioned the ether staking

6:03

ETF and the sole ETF. How soon

6:06

do you think we could see those

6:08

trading in the United States? Well, look,

6:10

the, the Solana ETFs, there are a

6:12

few that are currently in, that are

6:14

currently in the hopper, which the SEC

6:17

actually needs to respond to you by

6:19

this week, I think as soon as

6:21

tomorrow and Thursday. And so we should

6:23

start to see some movement on Solana.

6:25

I think, you know, very likely they

6:28

need. you know, likely it's to delay

6:30

until the next deadline would be mid-March

6:32

for a response. But the Sloan ETFs,

6:34

like, that is absolutely coming up and

6:36

it's something that, you know, crazy, in

6:39

a crazy case could get decided on

6:41

this week, but very much more likely

6:43

delayed and then talked about in March,

6:45

which is very soon. And then it's

6:47

taking ETFs, you know, there's a lot

6:50

of rumblings about a lot of issuers

6:52

have these on file ready to be

6:54

ready to get filed, and I bet

6:56

there's just a little bit more of

6:58

a little bit more of a My

7:01

expectation is now with the new SEC

7:03

or with the new administration and the

7:05

acting SEC chairman, there's more of a

7:07

constructive dialogue and so these things won't

7:10

be in order to not like put

7:12

the SEC under perhaps, you know, the

7:14

eight ball, they're probably instead of filing

7:16

for the ETF, probably your discussions with

7:18

the background and they'll file when things

7:21

are actually like fully fleshed and ready,

7:23

which could be very soon. Let's talk

7:25

a little bit more about the Solana

7:27

ecosystem just before we started recording this.

7:29

Solana was the only token on the

7:32

coin desk home page ticker that was

7:34

in the green and it really has

7:36

been seeing renewed interest after this meme

7:38

coin frenzy I believe I mentioned earlier

7:40

around the inauguration. Obviously we saw Donald

7:43

Trump and Malania launch their meme coins

7:45

on Solana. Talk to me about how

7:47

the Solana story unfolds for you over

7:49

2025. Yeah, I mean look as you

7:51

probably you and your listeners may or

7:54

may not know we're one of the

7:56

largest investors in Solana and we're extremely

7:58

We've been and Solana is one of

8:00

our largest investments. It's something that we're

8:02

very excited about and bullish on. I

8:05

think in order to talk about that,

8:07

look, you kind of need to step

8:09

back and think about why it's gone

8:11

to where it is. And I always

8:13

harken back to like the history of

8:16

block chains or that. Bitcoin was the

8:18

first blockchain that gained large attraction, and

8:20

it did something very simple, which is

8:22

transferred value back and forth. People thought,

8:24

hey, this is really smart contract architecture.

8:27

Fast forward a few years, 2019, 2020,

8:29

like, Theorems started to show real signs

8:31

of certain strain because there was a

8:33

lot of congestion because people really want

8:35

to use this, and thus was born

8:38

the next generation of layer ones like

8:40

Solana, with the ethos of, hey, why

8:42

don't we do what Theorem did? But

8:44

let's do it just like faster and

8:46

cheaper. And lo and behold, in the

8:49

classic, like, and the reason why Amazon's

8:51

successful, like, and the reason why Amazon

8:53

is successful, is successful. What do consumers

8:55

want? They went faster, cheaper, more convenient.

8:58

And that's what Solana delivers. It's faster,

9:00

cheaper, more convenient. And that's why it's

9:02

done a fantastic job, basically taking almost

9:04

100% of incremental new users and activity

9:06

last year in crypto. Fast forward to

9:09

2025, that's why we are where we

9:11

are, which is that Solana is the

9:13

fastest growing blockchain of scale. It actually

9:15

does more total economic value than Ethereum.

9:17

It's where most of the growth is.

9:20

And by the way, it's still trading

9:22

at one quarter of the valuation of

9:24

something like Ethereum. And so in a

9:26

lot of ways, you can understand why

9:28

Solana continues to have the investor interest

9:31

and the traction it has because delivers

9:33

a better product experience, first of all,

9:35

and then it's actually, and it's growing

9:37

fast and has the momentum. Cosmo, I

9:39

gotta ask you for people who are

9:42

looking at Solana and seeing the outages

9:44

that Solana just like can't seem to

9:46

get. in their rear view mirror. What

9:48

would you tell investors that look at

9:50

these outages, I was looking at X?

9:53

over the weekend,

9:55

folks were talking about

9:57

not only the

9:59

outage, but the delay

10:01

in transactions on

10:04

exchanges like Coinbase. What

10:06

would you tell them? Yeah.

10:09

Well, number one is that there's a

10:11

little bit of a misunderstanding around these

10:13

outages or this recent outage, which wasn't

10:15

an outage. Although I think the point

10:17

is maybe lost because the reality is

10:20

the user experience was not great. But

10:22

Solana, the blockchain actually worked perfectly fine

10:24

and nothing went wrong. The issues were

10:26

with the front ends that users interact

10:28

with to go on Solana. The issues were

10:30

with users of Gito who had to

10:32

end up using something else other than Gito.

10:34

And so it's all the tools and infrastructure that

10:37

are built on Solana that really strained under

10:39

Solana's growth. But Solana itself ran totally

10:41

fine. But again, for a user using the

10:43

blockchain, it feels the same way because

10:45

you're using something to access Solana. And the

10:47

thing that you were using to access Solana failed you. But

10:51

it's sort of an important nuance because Solana

10:53

blockchain actually was totally fine. If you go back

10:55

a few years though, over the last couple

10:57

of years, Solana has had a couple outages. And

11:00

the reality is like traditional financial

11:02

systems also go offline. That's not

11:04

something that's nothing has 100 % uptime.

11:08

You strive for that, but nothing does. And that's

11:10

okay. It just means you're hitting

11:12

the limits of what you're trying to build.

11:14

It means you're scaling really quick and it's okay

11:16

as long as you can iterate fast enough

11:18

to overcome that. And we've seen time and time

11:20

again that Solana has already fast enough to

11:22

overcome that. And this is even before the massive

11:24

Fire Dancer client release has going to be

11:27

a major upgrade to the system later this year.

11:29

And so I think it's like, I

11:31

wouldn't be too worried in the grand scheme of things. Okay.

11:34

I think that's a fair point. Now,

11:36

you brought up a major update

11:38

for Solana coming later this year. There's

11:40

a story on CoinDesk today. Talking

11:43

about an options block trade that was

11:45

executed on Monday showing expectations for

11:47

a sole price rally to $400. I

11:49

know that you're one of the

11:51

biggest investors in Sol, but talk to

11:53

me a little bit about how

11:55

you expect price performance over the year

11:57

as it gets this renewed interest

11:59

as it has major updates? Yeah, I'd expect

12:01

amongst the large cap assets for salon to

12:03

be one of the strongest performers over the

12:05

course of year or has a potential to

12:08

be one of the strongest performers over the

12:10

course of the year. And ultimately it just comes

12:12

down to can they continue to grow users?

12:14

Can they can grow applications that people want

12:17

to use? But if it does, like there's

12:19

no reason why it couldn't. And, you know,

12:21

some of the main catalysts that people

12:23

want to think about are certainly the

12:25

launch of the salon ETS, which I

12:27

think will have enormous appetite, potentially probably

12:29

more appetite than the Ethereum ETS at.

12:31

I think, and, you know, that's, I

12:33

think, certainly will get news flow about

12:35

them the first quarter and potentially a

12:37

launch this year. I think the other is, you

12:40

know, a lot of people are very worried about

12:42

this March unlocked from the FT estate estate estate.

12:44

I just say. I mean, so on a trade,

12:46

it's not trade so much, relative to that,

12:48

unlock a amount that also something that doesn't

12:50

worry me too much, especially because a lot

12:52

of the buyers were, you know, people who want

12:55

to be long-term investors, not, not short-term

12:57

arbitrators. And so it feels like, you

12:59

know, as long as fundamentals continue at home,

13:01

as long as the crypto market continues

13:04

to hold, it can be a pretty

13:06

strong performer for the rest of the year.

13:08

Ethereum I bring this up time and

13:10

time again we had a guest on the

13:13

show once probably a few months back now

13:15

that said Ethereum could be the blackberry of

13:17

the crypto industry I don't know if I

13:19

if I follow that line of thought but

13:22

you know it really has not been something

13:24

that is so top of mind when

13:26

I have these conversations now it's kind

13:28

of fallen to the back burner talk

13:30

to me about your outlook for Ethereum

13:32

do you think it's going to pick

13:34

up momentum in 2025 or do you

13:36

think that you know some of the other chains

13:39

like Solana are going to give it a run

13:41

for its money. Yeah I mean look I

13:43

do want to start with we are

13:45

as as you know one of the

13:47

first institute well as the first institutional

13:49

fund in crypto we have a long

13:51

history in this space and so we

13:53

love all our children and and Ethereum

13:55

has absolutely proven out its its value

13:57

and its contributions to the space over

13:59

time. Like, if it's undeniable, it has

14:01

the most TVL of any chain, as

14:03

the most stable coin volume of any

14:06

chain, and certainly the most developers and

14:08

serious academics building on the chain. That

14:10

said, like, you know, on a relative

14:12

basis, it's not hard to see why

14:14

Ethereum has struggled recently. and you know

14:16

worse and it's it's clearly it's you

14:18

know got a large valuation for something

14:20

for what it is that it needs

14:23

to continue to grow into not to

14:25

say that I can't keep going up

14:27

but does need to grow the growth

14:29

grow into that I think the On

14:31

a relative basis, certainly a lot of

14:33

the media attention and the excitement and

14:35

the new developers have gone to Solana,

14:37

right? You see that in the electric

14:40

capital developer report. You see that in

14:42

just the tenor of conversations. And so

14:44

there is some introspection that the Ethereum

14:46

is going through, which I think is

14:48

extremely healthy and due to bear a

14:50

lot of good fruit. But it does

14:52

need to go through this growing pain

14:54

and this introspection period. And hopefully that

14:57

sets the stage for stronger and more

14:59

durable growth after that. Okay in Cosmo

15:01

just before we wrap up I got

15:03

to ask you what is the one

15:05

thing that you think folks who watch

15:07

the crypto markets like you and I

15:09

should be watching? I think one of

15:11

the fastest growing and most exciting categories

15:14

within crypto is at the intersection of

15:16

crypto and AI. I know that's not

15:18

like one specific investment but I would

15:20

say we've made a lot of investments

15:22

in the space in both the private

15:24

and liquid markets. I think there are

15:26

a lot of compelling reasons why blotching

15:28

uniquely enables AI and why an AI

15:31

may by will accelerate blockchain adoption. You

15:33

know, one of the areas that we've

15:35

seen the most excitement recently is certainly

15:37

this AI agents which, you know, live

15:39

on blockchain. It's, it's not just a

15:41

crypto thing. It's a, it's a whole

15:43

world thing. It's a, it's a whole

15:45

world thing. Jens and Huang, see of

15:48

a video, Sam Mallman, see of an

15:50

video, Sam Mallman, see of an open,

15:52

and I've all been talking about how

15:54

AI and crypto is, it's really important

15:56

to call it the creation of the

15:58

creation of the White House. AI and

16:00

cryptos are. Let me just say that again.

16:02

It's the White House AI and cryptos

16:05

are. This appointment elevates crypto into a

16:07

side by side place with AI,

16:09

which to me makes sense, right?

16:11

I believe crypto and AI each

16:13

are the two fastest most exciting

16:15

growth sectors in the world in

16:17

the coming years. And the creation

16:19

of AI and cryptos are placing

16:21

AI and crypto level is really

16:23

an explicit acknowledgement by the

16:26

leaders of our government that they also

16:28

believe that to be true. Thank you,

16:30

Jen. And thank you to our audience for

16:32

watching Cosmo's colleague, managing partner at Pantera

16:34

Capital, Paul Verada Cackett. We'll be joining

16:36

us as a speaker at Consensus Hong

16:38

Kong. Get your tickets at Consensus dash

16:41

Hong Kong, Hong Kong, Hong Kong, 2025,

16:43

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