0:01

Imagine this. You search your name or

0:03

your brand on Google, and the search

0:05

results is search

0:12

your name or your brand on Google, and

0:15

the search results is not telling the story

0:17

you wanted to. Your brand's should

0:19

be driving growth, not just existing

0:21

search results. How do

0:23

you take control and Google work in

0:25

your favor? Today, we'll learn

0:27

exactly how to take command of your online

0:29

reputation. Welcome back to

0:32

Mastering Tech Growth, where we interview

0:34

industry leaders serving actionable insights

0:36

and inspiring stories. I'm

0:38

your host, Mike, and today we

0:40

are diving into a game -changing topic,

0:42

mastering your brand storytelling Google to create

0:44

a high -impact online presence. This

0:47

is crucial for any business

0:49

looking to transform SEO from technical

0:51

tasks into a driver of actual

0:53

generation. Joining us today

0:55

is Jason Bernard, CEO of CaliCube. Jason's

0:58

expertise lies in shaping brands Google

1:01

to reflect growth -driven vision. Today

1:03

he'll unpack for controlling your

1:06

brand story in Google using it

1:08

to achieve real growth. It's great have

1:10

you on the show, Jason. Thank you for joining us today. Thank

1:12

you, Mike. That's a brilliant introduction. I think I might

1:14

steal all of that. Go Go

1:17

ahead then. you. It Makes me feel so

1:19

well, so we have

1:21

this Um,

1:24

I want to to say, specific question

1:26

the show, which goes like this.

1:29

when I say mastering tech growth. What

1:31

comes to mind? Mastering

1:34

Tech Growth? Yeah.

1:38

in terms of technical my company.

1:40

or mastering growth through technical applications

1:43

of search and AI. You're

1:45

giving me questions, right? So.

1:48

Yeah. If I rephrase this

1:50

this Jason, You

1:52

have a tech venture, so it

1:54

could be any technology -driven venture,

1:56

SaaS platforms, SaaS platforms, anything

1:59

tech -related, right? And you can

2:01

choose only one factor which is

2:03

the most influential for that company's

2:05

growth projection. that would

2:07

be Brand. brand is going

2:09

to drive your business best,

2:13

long term, short term and even

2:15

mid term. I would I

2:17

would go so far as to

2:19

my personal brand, in least CaliCube's case

2:21

has been hugely important What I found

2:23

with CaliCube is that my personal

2:25

brand Has been very easy to

2:27

build and quick to build and it's

2:30

been a very very good Leaver

2:32

for growing fast in

2:35

short term And what

2:37

we're now doing is segueing From

2:40

my personal brand the company's

2:42

growth to the corporate brand

2:44

driving the company's growth So

2:46

if we can now successfully

2:48

build the corporate brand which

2:51

takes longer To to

2:53

my personal brand the main driver of

2:55

sales and growth then we've won

2:57

the game and I can take a step

2:59

back and potentially exit. Okay,

3:01

the brand. effectively is

3:05

Is it trust with the brand or

3:07

is it just you know influence of

3:09

the brand like what really lies when

3:11

you say brand? So if I'm if I'm

3:13

putting your brand in Google, I'm seeing

3:15

something right? So I'm seeing the search results

3:17

and what I'm seeing effectively is Making

3:20

me to reach out to you and

3:22

go like you probably the company's gonna solve

3:25

my problems Is that what we we

3:27

of mean by brand? Yeah, well

3:29

terms of brand, what what we're doing

3:31

when we're building a brand and think

3:33

all corporations and people build

3:35

brand to some extent is

3:38

building up a brand Image

3:40

and representation in people's minds. We're

3:42

talking about people Then

3:45

think that is a brand

3:47

that I want to work with

3:49

and they will then search

3:52

you on Google or ask chat about you

3:54

what then happens when chat or

3:56

Google you or don't

3:58

represent you as a superstar? star you

4:00

truly are. People lose the

4:02

confidence that you've carefully built up when you've been

4:04

speaking to them on different platforms around

4:06

the web. So would

4:09

argue that search engine results

4:11

page on Google or the chat GPT

4:13

to who is Jason Barnard what

4:15

is Canikube vitally important to

4:17

your bottom of funnel. If

4:20

it's a bad result or

4:22

even a suboptimal result that doesn't

4:24

recommend you explicitly make you

4:26

look like the superstar you are,

4:28

then you've lost a huge,

4:30

huge opportunity. And you've wasted a lot

4:32

of work getting somebody to the point where they're

4:35

ready to do business with you because they might just

4:37

jump ship and go and do business with somebody else. So

4:40

So applies to like a cold situation,

4:42

right? So like people don't

4:44

actually know you to challenge

4:46

that notion of that online

4:48

presence and whatever is your online

4:50

reputation. And if saying, if

4:52

if it's not

4:54

a superstar, as you have

4:56

mentioned, you're losing your potential leads right there

4:58

because they just go like, is that

5:01

person? Who is this service? They're

5:03

getting subpar results they go like, I

5:05

think there's better Okay. I get I

5:07

get that. Especially with cold outreach. I

5:09

I is mean, I've really not

5:11

done very much cold outreach

5:13

in the past. I've tended

5:15

to build organically by

5:17

being present where my

5:19

audience is looking on LinkedIn

5:22

on YouTube, on forbes.com and entrepreneur.com and

5:24

then bringing them in that

5:26

way rather than outreach directly to somebody.

5:28

But we've now started with

5:30

the outreach and the fact that

5:32

when you search my name, Jason Barnard, J -S

5:34

-O -N -B -A -R -N -A -R -D on

5:36

Google, I look incredibly impressive. Google

5:39

appears to be recommending me.

5:41

It's showing me as the authoritative

5:43

entrepreneur digital marketer that I am.

5:46

And that makes a a huge difference. I

5:49

that you mentioned put it

5:51

in ChageDP. So it's, we

5:54

going towards that, right?

5:56

Where What answers will be

5:58

asked against ChageDP. or other

6:01

big LLMs Gemini Google, and people will

6:03

be, let's just put it in

6:05

Google, they will be asking. that

6:08

one as well. Okay. Yeah,

6:10

and with Fascinating. and with being

6:12

co -pilot, Gemini, perplexity, Claude,

6:14

all of these assistive engines,

6:16

we're having conversations with them. So

6:19

whereas with Google search, I I would now go

6:21

in and say, Jason Barnard, it shows me the

6:23

result. Brilliant. I look really

6:25

good, that's my Google business card.

6:27

But as you rightly said that what

6:29

happens when the person starts having a

6:32

conversation? and doesn't just

6:34

stop with who is Jason Barnard. and

6:36

talking about what are his specialist topics?

6:38

Should I trust him for knowledge panels?

6:40

Should I trust him with my personal

6:42

brand online? Yes or no. The

6:44

machines will give an opinion. And

6:47

you need that opinion to be yes, you

6:49

can trust in with your personal brand. And

6:53

that means the machine needs to understand foundationally

6:55

I am, what I do, who I

6:57

serve, and that I am

6:59

the most credible in market solution. I

7:02

that and I learned from you, by the

7:04

way, in your email signature you have

7:07

my name, up or put it in charge. right?

7:11

I my name in ChajunTP, it it couldn't even

7:13

find it. It was like, I have no idea

7:15

what you're talking about. So So I was like, hmm,

7:17

there's clearly some work I need to do. So

7:19

this episode and that conversation is very close

7:21

to my heart. So I

7:23

think we just defined why it's It's

7:26

so important to understand what story

7:28

is telling about you. It's It's

7:30

effectively essential if you wanna do

7:32

you well. to do really

7:34

well, right? So the difference between

7:36

this type of of approach for personal

7:39

brand building to like traditional you

7:41

know, branding. There

7:44

isn't a difference in the sense that

7:46

all we're doing at CaliQube and all our

7:48

techniques. do, we

7:50

call it the CaliQube process. What

7:53

we're doing is taking your personal

7:55

brand, your brand narrative. and

7:57

we're communicating it to the machine so that

7:59

they can. represent you way you

8:01

want to be represented. So

8:04

don't help you create your personal brand

8:06

in the sense we won't define who you are,

8:08

won't help you with the photos, we

8:11

won't help you with where,

8:13

what sorry, what saying to your audience

8:15

when you're out there communicating with

8:17

them. What we will do is help

8:20

you to package all of that

8:23

work you're doing so the machines including

8:25

Google and chat GPT all the machines to

8:27

come understand what it

8:29

is you're communicating, understand how

8:31

you want your brand narrative

8:33

to be represented and

8:35

then represent it the way

8:37

that you choose. It gives you

8:39

control and our

8:41

is based on understandability, credibility

8:43

and deliverability. Understandability

8:46

does the machine understand who you are,

8:48

what you do, which you serve, credibility does

8:50

it believe you to be best in market

8:52

for your particular audience, deliverability

8:54

have you given it the content it

8:56

needs to be able to communicate

8:58

effectively with a subset of its

9:00

users who audience and if you

9:03

look at understandability, credibility and deliverability

9:05

from your perspective that's

9:08

control, influence and

9:10

visibility that's

9:12

what you want. So we

9:14

can do is take what exists, package

9:16

it for the machines so

9:19

that you control your influential and you

9:21

get visibility because they understand that you are a

9:23

credible solution and they have the content

9:25

that they can deliver to their users.

9:28

Okay. Okay, What's how

9:30

behind this Like do you

9:32

communicate that message to the

9:34

machines? You You it as machines

9:37

but you know do you communicate

9:39

that to Google? How do

9:41

you communicate that to know charge the POR, the

9:44

system LLMs? It's

9:46

really as simple as clear,

9:48

consistent, organized information. Machines

9:51

learn by consistency,

9:53

clarity and repetition and

9:56

up to you to organize yourself. So

9:58

what I find is a lot of people

10:00

come to us as clients and say, well,

10:02

not sure I need you because the

10:04

machines will figure it out for themselves.

10:08

My advice to those people is

10:10

the machines will probably get it

10:12

wrong. And

10:14

even if they don't get it wrong, they're

10:16

going to get the tone wrong. They're not going

10:18

to understand exactly what it is you're trying

10:20

to communicate. And the other problem

10:22

is that they might get it right today,

10:24

but get it wrong tomorrow. You

10:26

want control, you want to stop that happening. Because

10:29

once it happens, the machine

10:31

changes its mind, represents you differently,

10:33

it's very difficult to change

10:35

its mind back. So

10:38

proactive. So love

10:40

the consistency. I I mean, that's everywhere.

10:42

Like if you do any

10:44

social media game whatsoever, like LinkedIn, Facebook,

10:48

you know, TikToks or whatever, all

10:50

these algorithms, all these services,

10:52

they love consistency. They need to see

10:56

consistency for a prolonged time, a year or

10:58

two, where you're producing content and then they start

11:00

trusting you, which means you're going to

11:02

get more impressions and you're going to

11:04

be seen more. So when we

11:06

say about consistency about who you are are how

11:08

you shape that message, are we basically

11:10

saying that you need to have like a website,

11:12

a blog, and just, you

11:14

know, put out that message about yourself?

11:17

Like, website, where do you actually

11:19

put that information out about yourself into what

11:21

channels? Right. It's a

11:23

really important question. You do need a

11:25

website yourself. And if you don't

11:27

have one for your personal brand, build

11:29

one today, It it can be a two

11:31

page website about page and page. That's it. But

11:33

these machines are actively looking

11:35

for what we call the home

11:37

and what Google put call point of

11:39

reconciliation. What they're trying to do

11:42

is reconcile all the fragmented information

11:44

the web about you and figure

11:46

out what the message is, what

11:48

the truth is, what the

11:50

representation of you should be. If

11:53

you give them your version of

11:55

the facts on your entity home, on

11:57

that point of reconciliation, your own website,

11:59

have they have something to compare

12:01

that fragmented information to, and

12:03

they can reconcile of that and create

12:05

the story that you want. So So secret

12:07

to control. is is making

12:10

sure that you have one source

12:12

of truth about you that you control.

12:14

And John Mueller Google says that they

12:16

are actively looking for that source

12:18

of truth from you about you. So

12:21

that happen. That's the control, that's

12:23

where you start. Sorry.

12:26

Okay, can we tell them, you know, what

12:28

is the source of truth Like just thinking malicious

12:32

actions, right? So do have my own

12:34

website, let's say, say do have my

12:36

own brand, I'm putting out the

12:38

language, someone comes up, creates a similar

12:40

domain and starts. creating

12:43

content about me, which is not true just, you

12:45

know, sort of destroy my online reputation?

12:47

Like how do we tell Google, how

12:50

do we verify the source truth? Is there like a

12:52

process for that? No, there's

12:54

no process. It's algorithmic. Everything

12:57

Google understands about you, everything

12:59

in the way Google represents

13:01

you is algorithmic. So So

13:03

have to master the algorithms and that's

13:05

what we've done at at CaliCube. That's

13:07

what the the CaliCube does because

13:09

we build solidly from understandability

13:12

credibility to deliverability in a

13:14

very intentional manner. And

13:16

built a platform called CaliCube Pro. It's

13:19

a SaaS platform that's just used internally

13:21

by our team, two billion data

13:23

points we've collected. to

13:25

understand how this machine thinks

13:27

and functions. And And what's

13:30

interesting when chat came out

13:32

a couple of years ago. If

13:34

you asked it who Jason was It

13:37

got it right immediately, without me having

13:39

to work on it specifically for chat GPT.

13:42

Because Because chat GPT Bing, Alexa,

13:45

Siri, Google all function

13:47

the same way. They

13:50

need to understand who you are, what you

13:52

do, which audience you serve. They need to

13:54

believe you're credible. they need the content that corroborates

13:56

everything you're saying and the content that they need

13:58

to deliver to their users. So

14:00

if you can take

14:02

control today, somebody else being

14:05

malicious and to take control

14:07

tomorrow will be impossible. If you

14:09

fail to take control today, it will be very

14:11

easy for somebody to do that. Okay.

14:14

So are we talking as simple as a

14:16

couple of pages website, know, here's about

14:18

me, here's my story. I feel like

14:20

it's almost like a LinkedIn type of

14:22

page, but maybe a lot more details Or

14:25

are we actually talking a lot more?

14:27

Are we talking about, you know, blog posts and

14:29

about the topics you actually care about?

14:31

Let's say want to position myself

14:33

in the market as a you know, leadership

14:35

coach for example, we many guests the way, CTO

14:37

level level coaches. So let's say they want

14:39

to position themselves as that, like, do

14:41

they need to produce content around that

14:43

for Google to go like, I know

14:45

you. And I think you are great as

14:48

a you know, CTO coach, like, that's

14:50

how it's happened. Yeah. Yeah,

14:53

When you start with the two page website, there's

14:55

no point in waiting. no point in

14:57

thinking, oh, I need a 20 page with

14:59

blog articles and content. Start with

15:01

your two page website. You don't have one because that's

15:03

how you get control. That's the understandability

15:05

aspect. You don't need to worry about credibility

15:07

until you've built understandability. If it doesn't understand

15:09

who you are, it it can't attach any

15:11

credibility signals to you. So you're

15:13

putting the horse before the cart, No, the cart before

15:16

the horse, it's the way isn't it? isn't it?

15:18

You're doing things in the wrong order. You need

15:20

understandability. So you need this two page website

15:22

that states clearly who you are, what you do,

15:24

which audience you serve. And then you

15:26

can build that out. And And what we do at CaliQ

15:28

for our clients is say, after that

15:30

first three month period when we've built understandability, when

15:32

the machine understands very clearly and confident

15:34

you are, what you do, which audience

15:37

you serve, we can start

15:39

building your website out to include

15:41

this content that you mentioned. But

15:44

we would advise you focus focus

15:46

on standing where your audience is

15:48

looking because they're not looking at

15:50

your website. They're looking on LinkedIn.

15:52

They're looking on YouTube. They're looking

15:54

on entrepreneur.com. They're looking on Forbes.com, search

15:56

engine line, wherever it might be.

15:58

Publish there. and then repurpose

16:01

it on your own website. and

16:03

then link between the two. Because

16:05

Google and the other machines, the

16:07

big tech algorithms, need that third party

16:09

corroboration. They need to see that

16:11

your audience is engaging with you. And

16:13

they need to see that you're

16:15

engaging with a relevant audience. And

16:18

that means doing it on a third party

16:20

website. and

16:22

then taking control. by

16:24

reproducing that content in one form or another

16:26

on your own website to confirm to

16:28

Google and to the other big algorithms, this

16:30

is indeed you and this is you

16:33

walking the walk. around the

16:35

entire internet. I I

16:37

always thought, Jason, that it's actually put it on

16:39

your website first and then you

16:41

put it on the third party. you're

16:43

saying it's upside down. Yep.

16:46

Yes, nobody visits your website. I

16:48

like it. I mean, you're reaching

16:50

out to people. In

16:53

order to get them to see you, you need

16:55

to stand where they're looking and they're not looking

16:57

at your website. They're looking on LinkedIn, they're looking

16:59

on YouTube, They're looking on

17:01

search engine and They're looking on Forbes. So

17:03

what I do for my own personal

17:05

brand is stand where they're looking. and

17:08

I demonstrate my credibility to them,

17:10

and I pull them towards my

17:13

website, which is the ultimate destination.

17:15

Nobody spontaneously goes to my website

17:17

until they already know who I

17:19

am. And And order for them to know who

17:21

I am, I need to get out there in front of them. Stand

17:23

where your audience is looking. Okay.

17:27

So Google is capable to

17:29

make a decision that the

17:31

content you find in third parties

17:34

and medium.com is a very, very popular

17:36

one it comes to like articles. So

17:39

technology Google will know that this article

17:41

which came first on Medium is still your

17:43

ownership. So it will give credit

17:46

to whatever is your home domain. once

17:48

it finds that duplication over there, right? right?

17:51

Yeah, so you can either republish

17:53

the article as is and then you

17:55

put a canonical tag. which

17:57

shows that the other article on Medium is

17:59

the original source. and you're repeating on

18:01

your own website exactly what it is

18:03

you've done. Or you can repurpose it,

18:05

write a summary, put it on a page on

18:07

website, link to the full article. and then

18:09

it's not the same content, it's a

18:11

repurposed piece of content. Or a

18:13

video on your website, put that video on your

18:15

website where you explain the basics of what

18:17

you're talking about on Medium, then link out to the

18:19

Medium article and back from

18:21

the Medium article to that page.

18:23

That makes a lot of sense because

18:25

the machine can then see that

18:27

this article on Medium, it's not sure that

18:29

it's you. If it

18:32

sees that same content represented in potentially

18:34

a different manner on your own website,

18:36

it then knows for a fact

18:38

that it's you. Okay, fascinating,

18:41

I love that. Do

18:43

we win anything by creating

18:45

a domain which is our full

18:47

name or it

18:49

doesn't matter? Technically it doesn't

18:51

matter, but for users will. So

18:54

I tell you visit jasonbarner.com, if you can

18:56

spell my name you can get to my

18:58

website. If

19:00

I say visit .com, probably

19:03

quite difficult to visit my website.

19:05

But I could Google that that is

19:07

my entity home and I wouldn't have

19:09

a a problem with the machine because

19:11

the domain of itself doesn't actually

19:13

matter. It's a very, very, very small

19:15

signal in the overall scheme of

19:17

things. So I would

19:19

advise you to use your own name

19:22

for the user's sake and for clarity's

19:24

sake. You don't need a dot if

19:26

you can get the .com, get it. If

19:28

you can get a .com with middle initial, if

19:30

your name is already taken, do

19:32

that. My domain is

19:34

jasonbarner.com but it could

19:36

be jasonmbarner.com. It could also

19:38

be jasonbarner.website.

19:41

jasonbarner.co,

19:45

jasonbarner.xyz. the The

19:48

TLD, the extension XYZ,

19:50

com website .org.net

19:55

matter, although the dot

19:57

brings you a slight advantage. I

20:00

love that con. I I mean, everybody is,

20:02

you know, it's the king, right? It's probably always going

20:04

to remain the Um, so

20:07

I'm listening to this, and I'm like, I

20:09

don't have any online presence, I should

20:11

think about this, or maybe I'm a

20:13

business and I'm like, you actually write, you know, we

20:16

do a search and the story which comes out

20:19

is not what we want to do. Can we

20:21

break this into just like bullet

20:23

point step? what the brands can

20:25

do today? to till we start

20:27

the journey. Well, very

20:29

first thing to do for a corporation or

20:31

person is create about page on a website you

20:33

own. And

20:35

on that website, on that, sorry, on on that

20:37

page, the entity home, the point of reconciliation

20:39

in the HTML, state very clearly who

20:41

you are, what you do, which

20:44

audience you serve. Always

20:46

put at the top the information that's the most

20:48

important, the most relevant today, if If you want

20:50

tell a whole life story, that's fine, but

20:52

put the beginning at the end. Don't

20:55

put the beginning at the beginning. So

20:57

was born in 1966, goes right at the bottom of

20:59

the page if I want to put that. We

21:02

want Google and the other

21:04

machines and indeed audience to focus on

21:06

what's important today. Jason Barnard

21:08

is the founder and CEO of

21:10

Cali Cube, a great groundbreaking digital marketing

21:12

agency that helps people and

21:14

brands manage their brand narrative online,

21:16

especially in AI and search engines.

21:19

That's what I want at the top because that's what I

21:21

want people to focus on. That's what I want the machines

21:23

to focus on. on. From

21:25

there, I I need to

21:27

state the facts very clearly and then link out.

21:30

to all the resources that confirm what I'm

21:32

saying. And

21:34

if possible, link back from those sources to

21:37

that about page or to the the Home page

21:39

doesn't really matter either way. so

21:42

that Google and other big

21:44

algorithms will visit that page, say,

21:47

I've understood who this person is

21:49

just looking at this page. Now,

21:51

can we confirm it? Go to

21:53

linkedin.com, says the same thing, come

21:55

back. Go to medium.com, see the

21:57

same thing, come back. Go

21:59

to new York Times the same thing and

22:01

come back and so on and so

22:03

forth and it goes on an infinite light

22:06

of self -corroboration. If you can achieve

22:08

that, you've won the game

22:10

and what it comes down to

22:12

and what we do for our clients

22:14

over a three period of understandability is

22:16

up and optimize their digital footprint.

22:20

takes a couple of

22:22

months, clean up, it

22:24

makes everything clear consistent and

22:28

make sure that linking

22:30

correctly from your entity home to

22:32

all of these different resources and

22:34

back. When you asked somebody

22:36

nefariously trying to steal your

22:38

identity, that's where they will

22:40

always fall down. They They can't

22:42

get the volume of references

22:44

linking back. They can't make

22:46

that digital footprint clean the

22:48

way that you can. So

22:51

control today by cleaning and optimizing

22:53

your digital footprint. A, you're going to

22:55

to be by the machines and represented

22:57

by the machines correctly. You

22:59

protect yourself from those machines misunderstanding

23:01

the future and you protect yourself

23:03

from the nefarious competitor trying

23:05

to do you damage. Okay.

23:08

so it's effectively simple as

23:10

three steps. Create the about page, put

23:13

at the top where you know what

23:15

the main message, link out

23:18

external sources, make sure external sources

23:20

back to your source of truth.

23:22

Done. That's That's why you can't

23:24

do like week. Okay. Yeah, exactly. And

23:26

one of the tough things is

23:28

the consistency of the information. So

23:30

all of these different corroborative

23:32

sources need to be consistent. They

23:34

need to say the same thing that you're

23:36

saying. We have an

23:38

algorithm at CaliCube then pulls all

23:41

of the references to you

23:43

out of the internet we prioritize

23:45

them and we understand we have

23:47

an algorithm that understands exactly which

23:49

sources is paying attention to, which

23:52

sources chat is paying attention to. So

23:54

focus on the right things. So

23:57

for example, you might go and say, well,

23:59

I've got a Twitter. And that's really important to

24:01

me. Is it important to Google

24:03

and the other big tech algorithms? Maybe not. So

24:07

wasting your time. other The other

24:09

important thing is that

24:12

URL web web pages

24:14

now associated with the person

24:16

or the corporation. So

24:19

So need to make

24:21

sure that you're focusing on the ones that

24:23

the machines truly care about. And

24:25

we We have a

24:27

situation now where, for example,

24:29

a third party mentioned

24:31

my name and the

24:33

information is incorrect. It's

24:36

a lot of effort for me to

24:38

reach out to that third party to New York

24:40

Times, let's say, and ask the journalist to

24:42

correct the information. So I would tend to

24:44

say, well, that's too much effort. But

24:47

if our algorithms tell us that that of

24:49

information is incredibly important to Google and

24:51

the other big tech algorithms, it's

24:53

worth making that effort. And

24:56

we will tell you keep making the

24:58

effort until they change it, because we know

25:00

that this is foundationally important to Google's

25:02

understanding of who you are, what you do,

25:04

which audience you serve, and especially the

25:06

credibility aspect. How do you know

25:08

that that's important to Google? There

25:11

multiple ways we can measure Google's association

25:14

of your entity, your person entity,

25:16

you as a person to different

25:18

URLs around the web. For

25:20

example, an article I've written, does it

25:22

understand that I wrote it? If it does, then

25:24

an important article. If it doesn't understand that written

25:26

it, it doesn't actually matter. I

25:29

can educate it to say to Google, I actually

25:31

wrote that article and that's the whole process of

25:33

what we do behind the scenes at CaliQ. But

25:36

we can measure Google's appreciation

25:38

of the importance of a

25:40

a web page or content to

25:42

a person or a corporation

25:44

through multiple measurements, one of which

25:46

is about this result on

25:48

Google Search, another of which

25:50

is the knowledge graph, and

25:52

another of which is how

25:54

all of this joins together

25:56

from your entity home, i .e. how

25:58

well we've built. that

26:00

web of information, how well we've joined

26:02

the dots, and if we can join it

26:04

tightly. we can

26:06

identify the closest, strongest and longest

26:09

relationships and those are the important

26:11

ones. if I can

26:13

develop a long strong relationship. that

26:16

is close with, for example,

26:18

my case, Search Engine Land, if

26:21

I've been publishing with them since 2015

26:24

and published multiple times with them.

26:27

and they have promoted my content. off

26:30

offsite in social media profiles, then

26:32

I have a strong long

26:34

close relationship with search engine Land,

26:36

that becomes important. And

26:39

it's, You can

26:41

guess at most of this. So I would say

26:43

to anybody, go out, guess. Your guess is

26:45

probably gonna be right. We

26:47

can back it up with data and we can figure

26:50

out. is your guess right or

26:52

not. So you're making all that extra effort,

26:54

you know you're making the right, the

26:56

in the right place and you're not

26:58

just making it our guesswork. From

27:00

my perspective, I sleep better

27:02

at night knowing that I spent my day

27:04

focusing on things that are truly important. As

27:07

opposed to sleeping badly at night thinking I was

27:09

just all day working on all of different stuff

27:11

and I have no idea. if

27:14

it was important in terms of achieving my

27:16

goal of getting Google and the AI to represent

27:18

me the way I want. Hmm. Yeah,

27:21

I love that. Yeah. I

27:23

I see that very easily. know,

27:25

there's some sources which you'll want to Make

27:28

sure saying the right message in some, which

27:31

doesn't matter that much. Can

27:33

you give us, can you give

27:35

us a success story, Jason, which is is

27:38

you know, someone came to to

27:40

you guys, had the next situation

27:42

with the brand or image, you

27:45

guys did the work. what happens

27:47

later in measurable terms, like you know, what

27:49

is the growth that they seen, in,

27:51

you know, maybe maybe know, a website visits,

27:54

maybe in lead generation is just, just

27:56

to really understand, like, how

27:58

doing the right work. on your

28:00

line presence or brand actually have

28:03

that huge ROI for

28:05

anybody. Well, I can give you

28:07

three very interesting examples and I'll try to

28:09

go through them very quickly. The first is somebody

28:11

who had some bad news, negative

28:13

feedback on their brand set. When you search

28:15

name, they were quite famous, so

28:17

so I can't name them. The

28:20

third or fourth result was very

28:22

negative and they said, that's damaging

28:24

me because people search my name and

28:27

trying to do business with them,

28:29

they say, oh but what about

28:31

this? And it comes up

28:33

in conversations very regularly. Please can

28:35

you remove that from page of Google? Please

28:37

can you remove it from the the

28:39

answer to chat which we subsequently

28:41

did? That topic never comes

28:43

up in sales calls anymore. It

28:46

doesn't come up when that person is

28:48

talking to partners and it

28:50

avoids that terrible point where they saying

28:52

actually it was a specific situation where

28:54

fact the truth is it wasn't as bad

28:56

as it looks, you never

28:58

want to get into that

29:00

kind of discussion with anybody

29:02

when you're trying to do

29:04

business. Second example is this guy

29:06

behind me, Scott Duffy who

29:08

for different reasons had to

29:10

stop doing business for three

29:12

years or not doing business, sorry

29:14

keep a low profile for three

29:16

years in terms of his business achievements.

29:19

What we managed to do is although

29:22

he wasn't very active in business,

29:24

he wasn't very active in his

29:26

promotion of his personal brand. We

29:28

kept him with this panel, this great

29:30

representation on Google, so that the

29:33

the who did start doing business

29:35

with him that low lying period

29:37

were very convinced that he

29:39

is in fact the credible solution

29:42

that they want him to

29:44

be. and you see here we've got

29:46

a photo of Richard Branson, Scott

29:50

Duffy sold a company to Richard

29:52

Branson. That makes him look

29:54

very credible and we managed to keep that

29:56

image up there, making him look credible even

29:58

though he wasn't actually active. actively working on

30:00

any business at that time. So

30:03

So able to

30:05

maintain a very strong online presence

30:07

and a very good representation

30:09

by Google of you whilst not

30:11

actually active online is a

30:13

huge achievement. And

30:16

now launched AI AI Mavericks, which

30:18

I recommend to any entrepreneurs.

30:20

Brilliant stuff, he's now out there,

30:23

he's doing it. he's got the press, he's

30:25

got his his business going. And the

30:27

launch was so simple because name

30:29

was already out there, It was already

30:31

present. and he was already represented

30:34

by Google and by the AI in a

30:36

very positive manner. And the

30:38

third example is a guy called Jonathan Kronstedt,

30:40

who's the president of Kijabi. Every

30:43

conversation he had with people would

30:45

start with, tell me about Kajabi.

30:48

But he wanted to start the conversations

30:50

with, how can you help

30:52

me with my business, Jonathan? And And

30:55

asked us to change

30:57

Google's representation of him

31:00

from president Kijabi excuse me,

31:02

to investor and business coach.

31:05

So he did a pivot of

31:07

his entire career. He's still

31:09

the president of Kajabi, but Google

31:11

doesn't prioritize it. ChatGPT says Jonathan

31:13

Kronstedt an investor and a business advisor.

31:15

and by the way, he is

31:17

also president of Kajabi. So

31:20

we pivoted Google's perception of

31:22

him so conversations for him now

31:24

start with, how can you help

31:26

me with my business? And

31:28

he doesn't have that horrible conversation

31:30

or the the he didn't enjoy

31:33

of getting through the Kajabi aspect of it.

31:35

And he could say, I I can help your

31:37

business by A, B, C, D, and

31:39

by the way, I'm credible and authoritative, and

31:41

you can believe in me because I

31:43

am, sorry, the president Kajabi. So you

31:45

can pivot your career as well. So

31:48

when you do all that

31:50

work, the return of comes out. After

31:53

you change image, Hopefully that strategically is the

31:55

right thing to do. You did it

31:57

well. And after everything we're

31:59

having... after that is just

32:01

the purely type of situation. just

32:03

getting seen in the light you want

32:05

see, which sure that

32:07

the the cold is effectively

32:10

becoming a much warmer. because

32:12

you instantly just send the right message. don't need

32:14

to have calls and everything like that

32:16

is just. closes

32:18

the gap, Okay. that's very easy to

32:20

see. And And the career actually very relevant Jason.

32:22

yep, go. Yep. Go. But a hidden advantage.

32:25

Is it in order to get this

32:27

to happen if you look at this

32:29

result for Scott, is that

32:31

what we did was strategically get him to do

32:33

the little. Um promotion

32:36

he was doing in all the right

32:38

places. So

32:40

already had the contact with the

32:42

human audience the platforms where they were

32:44

looking. on YouTube, on

32:46

LinkedIn. we maintained the

32:48

most important channels for him. during

32:51

that period. So

32:54

In order to change Google's perception of

32:56

you and therefore representation of you, you need

32:58

to walk the walk. And

33:01

data from the CaddyQ Pro database, 2 two billion

33:03

data points, will tell you the walk

33:05

that you need to walk. to

33:08

be the most effective representation

33:10

within your industry. So focusing

33:13

on, again, focusing on the right things,

33:15

the things that make it different. Yeah.

33:18

Minimum effort, maximum output.

33:21

Minimum maximum output. Everybody wants that,

33:24

isn't it? Yeah. Can I do

33:26

at least amount of things and

33:28

get the most amount of things?

33:30

Yeah. Okay. that nicely leads

33:32

into the next question which I wanted

33:34

to ask, as you mentioned. one

33:37

of the cases you put

33:39

in the search query and the

33:41

result was actually damaging. you

33:44

know, link, right? So which

33:47

to the question, what

33:49

is a a

33:51

positive, you know, link?

33:54

there a difference? of

33:57

what should be one two, and three, and

33:59

four. you know, maybe I want be

34:02

be LinkedIn for whatever reason, or

34:04

maybe I want it to be Forbes. Like,

34:06

is there is

34:08

there difference in basically these pages

34:10

and would you say that there

34:12

a, when it comes

34:14

to credibility, there are sources which should be

34:17

targeting to have at the very

34:19

top and associated your name? Yeah,

34:22

Yeah, it's not the same for everybody

34:24

and it's not the same in every

34:26

industry. And

34:29

And what going to be aiming for

34:31

in those top 10 results, we'll

34:33

say 10 results, it's not always 10,

34:36

is is what your audience

34:38

expects, what you are

34:41

willing to do, and what

34:43

makes money for you. So

34:45

if we're saying we've got a

34:48

result, number four, don't like it, let's push

34:50

it down off page one. What we

34:52

don't do is what traditional management companies do,

34:54

which is create lots of extra content to

34:56

try to drown it, that doesn't

34:58

work. What we do do is look

35:01

at your brand search, the search results

35:03

page for your name, pages

35:06

one, two, three, four, five, and

35:09

we figure out which are

35:11

the pieces of content that exist

35:13

on those five pages that

35:15

we could replace the content. And

35:17

we would then work on them,

35:19

but we would work on

35:21

the ones that make sense for

35:23

your audience, for you, and and

35:25

for Google. That's how

35:27

we win the game. We can't force you to

35:29

work on LinkedIn if you don't like LinkedIn. What

35:31

we can do is find an

35:33

alternative to LinkedIn that would make

35:35

sense to you and to your audience and to Google.

35:39

And then we take it a step further, We can

35:41

to you, who are the people you aspire to

35:43

be like? And you give us a list.

35:46

We push them all into our algorithm and

35:48

it will pull out what the

35:50

commonalities between those people are in Google's

35:52

eyes. And that will

35:54

tell us where that audience is looking,

35:56

what that audience is looking for, where...

35:59

you serve them and how you can serve

36:01

them. And also once

36:03

again, Google will be watching

36:05

this, and it's the most effective,

36:07

efficient, and fastest way for us

36:10

to be able to get you

36:12

the result you want on your

36:14

brand search. So if you say, I

36:16

want a specific set of results

36:18

with LinkedIn, let's say Facebook, YouTube, and

36:20

and your articles on Medium we can

36:22

get you that. And

36:24

we can get you that both

36:26

from analyzing search results for your

36:29

page, the chat GPT results your name, but

36:31

but also your competitors, your chat peers,

36:33

and the people you aspire to

36:35

be like. And And especially if

36:37

we take the people you aspire to

36:40

like, the the people you aspire to

36:42

emulate, we can move you up a

36:44

notch because by copying

36:46

the commonalities of that group of people,

36:48

you will become one of those

36:50

people. So we move you up one

36:52

step in the ladder. I

36:54

that. It goes the

36:56

same to like life. I think there's

36:59

not like a saying, but maybe an unwritten

37:02

rule where where people, people

37:05

always invite people to audit environment,

37:07

and they go like what is the

37:09

people you spend the most time

37:11

with? The results will be

37:13

an average of all of those six people.

37:15

So if you want really up your game, you know

37:17

your environment. so it's a very similar situation,

37:19

isn't it? It's like, if you have people

37:21

you aspire to be, if you know

37:23

what they're doing, where they are, what they're

37:25

saying, if you do the same as you know outcome

37:27

is basically that they're gonna be one of them.

37:30

And that's very impressive. I

37:33

really like the way you put that. what

37:35

we can do is take six people,

37:37

10 people, 20 people, 70 people. And

37:39

because we're doing it algorithmically,

37:42

not only can we do more

37:44

people, so we can take

37:46

70 people to create a better

37:48

representation of what you should

37:50

be doing, how you should

37:52

be walking the walk. But we do

37:54

it algorithmically and we can prioritize so can tell

37:56

you within this group the commonalities of

37:59

this. This is the cohort. This is

38:01

the group of people that you want

38:03

to belong to and we can place

38:05

you right at the center we

38:07

can see exactly what the 20

38:09

things that need to be done are

38:12

in order for you to be the

38:14

perfect representation of that group of

38:16

people I Hmm. I

38:18

that. I I would probably add the that

38:20

you said that Jason you said you

38:22

need to make the walk and I

38:25

I think like that's you know could be a

38:27

a missing piece of people listening and

38:29

it feels like maybe it's easy

38:31

just as You know Using service, but

38:33

you do need to produce an actual

38:35

content to Google to you know to deal

38:37

with you Can't sort of you

38:40

know exist with one page and do

38:42

nothing else and to be associated And and

38:44

and as good as you know these people you

38:46

aspire to be you'll need to to need

38:48

to do some some work Right, but

38:51

then result with the yep. Yeah.

38:53

but but again you have that advantage and I think

38:55

kind of you think oh, I've got to create this

38:58

content and it's a lot of effort and But

39:01

if you're putting that content

39:03

and Standing where your

39:05

audience is looking you've already got

39:07

the audience You've got people who

39:09

want to do business with you And

39:12

they will Google your name and they will

39:14

see that great result But me the

39:16

point is if if we at CaliQ can tell

39:19

you where to stand where to produce

39:21

the content Where to be most efficient with

39:23

your production of content and where you place

39:25

the content where you focus with that

39:27

content You're already winning clients. You're already making

39:29

partnerships You're already building a network with

39:31

the right people in the right places excellent,

39:34

I I love that Can

39:37

we talk a little bit about a

39:39

lead generation because we've talked a lot and it

39:41

cannot escape my head that

39:43

end result is that

39:45

you just getting? Senior

39:48

in proper lights by default answers

39:50

a lot of questions to

39:52

people looking for or your for

39:54

your service leads them to very likely

39:56

going to your website and then

39:58

you know things being sort of

40:00

greeted with the same message. So

40:02

has this almost

40:04

like a path of least resistance

40:06

for them to become a much warmer

40:08

lead the top of your

40:11

funnel. If we

40:13

think about same results, you

40:15

know, we want to achieve same

40:17

results, and we're thinking about

40:19

a general SEO practices. Is

40:22

there a difference between brand

40:24

storytelling and being in

40:26

good lights or doing doing doing SEO,

40:29

which which which all the market is

40:31

doing to actually generate leads. Is

40:34

there a difference in between those two? Yeti

40:39

the SEO point is really interesting. I

40:41

come from a world of SEO. I

40:43

was an SEO expert and I still am.

40:45

I know more about SEO than is healthy.

40:48

But my vision or my view

40:51

of SEO and what role SEL plays

40:53

is very different to most people in

40:55

the community. I

40:58

see SEO as simply

41:00

packaging. The branding

41:02

and marketing you should already be doing. for

41:05

the machines. So should should

41:08

a a strong brand message. You should

41:10

be doing marketing around that brand message in

41:12

the right places where your audience is looking.

41:15

And the job of SEO is simply

41:17

to package that information, package that

41:19

marketing and that branding for the

41:22

machine that they can find it. it,

41:24

understand it, digest it, and use

41:26

it to represent you to

41:29

the subset of their users who

41:31

audience. So we

41:33

effectively what saying, you need

41:35

to align your SEO work

41:39

strategies. to to

41:41

align with your customers' intents. Yeah,

41:44

So the customer's intent is to find

41:46

you. make sure that

41:48

you find a ball, know, if

41:50

your customer's is to find you and then, you

41:52

know, about your services, make sure that that's

41:54

exactly what the is doing, right? So it's

41:56

not just to

41:58

be in Google. Serbs because

42:00

it's very often like and

42:03

I had some and work some

42:05

companies before where we use SEO

42:07

in the past and The

42:09

success would always be like

42:12

we want to be in the serbs

42:14

top ten for a given keywords that

42:17

would be definition, you know of success

42:19

and they would go like well You need to

42:21

produce a lot of content around that keyword

42:23

make sure you're putting out the blog

42:25

around that it talking about it Yeah, so

42:28

you basically it's it's just upside down you

42:30

need to start from a From

42:32

really the brand image itself and then

42:34

go down to this lower

42:36

Yeah Well, I think the idea

42:39

I need to rank for

42:41

this specific keyword number

42:45

is very short sighted and it Makes

42:47

the huge mistake of thinking that

42:49

people click on the first link they see and

42:51

by they don't People

42:54

research spend time looking

42:56

at the different options. They they spend

42:58

time Thinking about what

43:00

it is they're going to do making a decision about

43:02

who they're going to do business with and That

43:05

means you need to be visible at

43:07

all different levels of the funnel and all

43:09

points of research Which includes Google Includes

43:12

the different platforms that your

43:14

audience are hanging out on LinkedIn medium

43:16

YouTube New York Times and And

43:19

it includes potentially chat GPT and

43:23

Bing co-pilot other assistive engines where the conversations

43:26

are happening You need to be involved

43:28

and you need to be visible in

43:30

a regular manner and I'll give you

43:32

a good example At

43:35

Cali Q don't rank number in

43:37

the traditional SEO sense for Very

43:39

many keywords very few Because

43:42

we don't focus on that. We're

43:44

not interested in that what we

43:46

do manage to do is be visible

43:49

across the entire research

43:55

Environment the topics we

43:57

in which is controlling brand

44:00

narrative Google and AI, building

44:02

knowledge panels on Google, making

44:04

Google's representation of you exactly

44:06

what you want. Building

44:09

a digital marketing

44:11

strategy based on data,

44:14

data from Google, who know more than

44:16

anybody else in the world about what

44:18

should be done, and we simply have

44:20

an algorithm that figures that out for

44:22

you. And happens for

44:24

me is people come on to

44:26

sales calls. And say,

44:29

I I know what I want. I

44:31

know what you do. And And

44:33

I know you're the best solution

44:35

because I've researched it. How

44:37

long is it going to take? How researched much do

44:39

I need to invest? Those are great sales calls

44:41

to be having. And the

44:43

reason they know who we are and

44:45

what we do and that the best

44:47

is they say, I keep seeing that

44:49

red everywhere. I keep seeing you mentioned

44:51

all over the place. Every time

44:53

I research the topic, your name comes up.

44:55

Your advice comes up. that red shirt up.

44:58

You are obviously the leader

45:02

for managing personal brand

45:04

narrative online. Okay. I

45:07

love it. That's a very powerful one.

45:09

And when you said about people research,

45:11

I instantly thought about people you

45:14

know, quite lazy when it comes

45:16

to research and starting to

45:18

trust tools like change the P. Yes. And going in

45:20

simply going like, look, you know, here's my problem.

45:23

I I to be seen online much

45:25

better. Can Can you just give

45:27

me a top 10 list of

45:30

people, you know, books or services, you know, can

45:32

do that for me? You

45:34

want to be in list. Exactly.

45:36

And I'll give you a really good

45:38

example. I mean, you've brought this straight to a

45:40

point I have in my slide decks, which

45:42

is the funnel. If

45:44

you ask chat GPT, what is a knowledge

45:46

panel or how do I get a

45:48

knowledge panel or how much is a

45:50

knowledge panel cost? It will cite Cali

45:53

as a source of information it

45:55

is using. Same

45:57

with Bing

45:59

Co-Pilot. Same with Google

46:01

Gemini. Then say, who are the

46:03

world's experts in knowledge panels? Bing

46:06

Co-Pilot says Barnard, number

46:08

one. Olaf

46:11

Kopp the second it mentions and

46:13

Jones is the third. Then

46:15

you say, who should I

46:17

choose? Who should I contact

46:19

right now for my knowledge panel? Bottom

46:21

of funnel. Bing co

46:23

-pilot says, I I advise you

46:25

to contact Jason Barnard. Bing

46:27

co -pilot has just brought somebody from

46:29

is a knowledge panel? How

46:31

do I get one? Who

46:34

are the experts? Who should I choose? In

46:36

the space of 10 minutes. The

46:38

person clicks on the link

46:40

to my website and that's

46:43

what Fabrice Canel from Bing, who's Mr. Bing Bot,

46:45

the guy who builds Bing

46:47

Bot, They call the perfect click. the

46:49

aim of co -pilot is to

46:51

bring the person down the funnel

46:54

to the perfect click as efficiently

46:57

possible. All

46:59

of these search engines work the same

47:01

way. Search engine assistive engines. What is their aim?

47:03

To bring the user to the solution

47:05

to their problem as efficiently as

47:07

possible. The perfect

47:09

click. You want to be

47:12

the perfect click. You need to be

47:14

present at every stage in the funnel and

47:16

a great way to see if you are

47:18

is to go to Bing Co-Pilot or chat GPT Google

47:20

Gemini and start the journey and

47:22

that conversation with the machine and see

47:24

if you're included in the answers and my is

47:26

you probably aren't what we

47:28

can do at CaliCube is make sure

47:30

you are and by the way, this this side sorry that

47:33

QR code gives you a

47:35

free download. 60 pages free download

47:37

explains exactly what we do. Our

47:40

business comes from people who want us to do

47:42

it because they know that we'll do it efficiently.

47:44

we We will do it effectively and we will

47:46

do it fast and we will

47:48

take the weight off their shoulders so we can afford

47:51

to give this away for free. Download

47:53

the guide, do it yourself, knock yourselves

47:55

out. I love that. very

47:58

example. and what will happen You

48:00

know all of that all of these

48:02

links in the show notes for anyone listening or

48:04

watching just down check over

48:06

there What

48:09

is a knowledge panel? Jason?

48:13

Just for who potentially doesn't know what

48:15

a knowledge partner. Well,

48:17

you can see one behind me here, but

48:19

if you're listening on audio, you won't be

48:21

able to see what I'm pointing at. It's

48:24

the information box that Google shows when you

48:26

search for a famous person or a famous

48:28

company on the right -hand side on desktop. So

48:30

if you search for IBM, you you you will

48:32

see a knowledge panel on the right -hand side,

48:35

and it's a statement of the facts Google

48:37

has understood them. Fact

48:39

is anybody any company can and

48:41

should have a knowledge panel.

48:44

I said famous people, famous companies. But in

48:46

truth, Google only wants to understand the

48:48

facts. And if it can understand the facts,

48:50

it will represent those facts in a

48:52

knowledge panel on the right -hand side. in

48:55

that information box. on

48:57

the right hand side when you search on desktop. And

49:00

if you look here on the example behind me at

49:02

the top, you can see the photos of Scott Duffy.

49:04

Those are called knowledge panel cards, and and they're

49:07

actually generative AI. So if

49:09

you're really good at the job, which

49:11

we are as you can see from

49:13

Scott Duffy's example, you get across the

49:15

top the generative results and down the right

49:17

-hand side the facts. That's what you

49:19

want because it makes you look credible. It

49:22

makes you look authoritative and it will help

49:24

people make that decision to do business. with you. Fascinating.

49:27

Love that. There

49:30

be a technology podcast, Jason,

49:32

I wouldn't ask how AI

49:36

is throwing a wrench in of this. Like

49:38

is it helping? Is it

49:40

creating more problems? You know, do

49:42

you maybe see your algorithms misbehaving

49:44

because you are being saturated

49:46

with information which is generated by

49:48

GenAI something like that? that? do

49:51

you guys see any type of

49:53

impact in couple of years of,

49:55

you know, Chag the people in

49:57

mainstream? Yeah. what

50:00

talking about or what we've been

50:02

talking about today becomes even more important

50:05

because What's

50:07

happening is search still exists. Search

50:09

is still vitally important. It's

50:11

still the jumping off point, which

50:13

is what Fabries canal from says. Search

50:16

is still the jumping point. Generative AI

50:18

is a different beast. Generative

50:22

AI chat GPT Gemini Bing

50:25

co-pilot created new demand.

50:28

It hasn't replaced search It's

50:31

added a new way for

50:33

people to work. So

50:35

supply creates its own demand is a thing that

50:37

I learned in economics years years and years

50:40

ago. People are

50:42

using more rather than

50:44

moving from search to

50:46

assistive engines like

50:48

ChatGPT. But key here

50:50

as well is that all of

50:52

these platforms, Google, Bing,

50:55

chat GPT perplexity are all

50:57

building bridges between search

51:00

and assistive, assistive conversational

51:03

So if you're on search and you

51:05

are obviously starting to get

51:07

into a conversation, they will

51:10

push you across to the

51:12

platform that is conversational, Gemini,

51:14

ChatGPT, co-pilot, it might be. And

51:16

if you're on one of those platforms and you're

51:18

obviously in a research searching mode, they will push

51:20

you over to a search result. And

51:23

that's what Fabries calls bridges between search

51:25

and assistive engines. So you can

51:27

consider you need to control both because

51:29

people are going to be coming

51:31

down both funnels. And

51:34

from that perspective, you need to make

51:36

sure that you don't need a different strategy

51:38

for each. And I was talking to

51:40

somebody the other day who said, well, I've

51:42

mastered Google, now I've got my strategy for

51:44

mastering chat GPT. I would

51:46

argue that that shows

51:48

that the strategy isn't

51:52

Maintainable and they're going to run into trouble.

51:54

Because if you have to maintain a a different strategy

51:56

for each of the different big

51:59

algorithms, you're to struggle in

52:01

the future and you're to get it very wrong. With

52:04

what we do at CaliCube, we

52:06

work using the similarities,

52:09

the commonalities between these machines.

52:11

They all use large

52:13

language models. They all use

52:15

knowledge graphs. They all

52:17

use search results. They all need to

52:19

understand who you are, what you do,

52:21

which audience you serve. They all need

52:23

to believe you're credible and they all

52:26

need the content that allows them to deliver

52:28

to the subset of their users to your audience. And

52:31

also talked to Fabrice a

52:34

slightly different topic, which is, are

52:37

the machines using less and less

52:39

resources or sources? For

52:41

example, perplexity is well known for having a

52:43

very small index and yet giving great results. What's

52:46

interesting there is that if

52:48

you ask perplexity a very long tail

52:50

question, a very complex question, it

52:52

won't be able to answer because it doesn't have the data.

52:56

But of these machines are

52:58

increasingly focusing on a small

53:00

set of hugely trusted sites

53:02

in each niche. And

53:04

it's really important for you to to in

53:07

mind niche. You don't

53:09

need Wikipedia. You

53:11

need the sites that are trusted within

53:13

your niche And you need to figure out

53:15

which ones those are. If I'm a poodle

53:17

in Paris, the poodle

53:20

parlor of Paris Association

53:22

website more powerful

53:24

than Wikipedia Because

53:27

it's niche, because it's

53:30

relevant, because it's authoritative within my

53:32

niche industry. So on niche industry

53:35

specific, sources

53:37

when you're building out your strategy,

53:40

especially on the third party sources.

53:43

From technological Jason, for

53:45

you as a service creator,

53:47

is there a place for

53:49

AI to make your services better?

53:51

you guys utilizing? Because you're

53:53

scraping a lot of data, you're making a lot of business, intelligence

53:59

data crunch. situations like do you guys use

54:01

AI to accelerate any of your

54:03

own processes? Yes,

54:05

do. We analyze,

54:09

sorry, I'll come back a step. We we step, search

54:11

results, we track assistive

54:13

engine results, chat

54:15

GPT, Gemini, Claude, Perplexity, we track

54:18

all of those. We

54:20

use NLP to understand how well

54:22

the machines understand different parts

54:24

of the text and copy that we're

54:26

creating for our clients and we

54:28

use AI to drive the

54:30

algorithms that figure out exactly what

54:33

it is that Google and

54:35

the other big algorithms are looking

54:37

for. So do use it

54:39

but what we found is that

54:41

what makes the difference is our human

54:43

element and for the moment at

54:46

least we're still smarter than the machines. So

54:49

I rely my team to

54:51

make that difference and to make

54:54

sure that we're doing

54:57

the right things in the right order that

54:59

sense to human beings. So

55:01

our algorithms tell me, for example, Mike,

55:03

should be focusing on LinkedIn, you

55:05

tell me I like Medium better, we can

55:07

adapt and we can start focusing on

55:10

Medium and push LinkedIn back in

55:12

our strategy because we need to understand

55:14

that you as a human being are more

55:16

comfortable Medium and can make Medium work for

55:18

you. It's not because

55:20

LinkedIn is slightly above Medium a focus

55:22

point according to the algorithms that

55:25

we have and according to

55:27

Google that you should necessarily

55:29

focus on LinkedIn if it makes no sense and

55:31

you won't engage and perhaps you won't

55:33

engage your audience. So that adaptability

55:35

remains crucial and I think

55:37

we all know but we don't

55:39

always fully accept AI doesn't

55:42

replace the human being, you need

55:44

the human in the loop. For

55:47

now. Well,

55:49

you say for now and the

55:52

moment of singularity when the machines

55:54

do become smarter than we are is

55:57

a day I'm actually quite looking forward to. because

56:00

anybody who doesn't have control of

56:02

how the machines understand them when

56:04

that happens. has

56:07

a huge problem on their hands.

56:09

The only people and corporations who have

56:11

a hope of surviving. when

56:14

machines become more intelligent than humans. the

56:17

only people who will have a a hope of

56:19

being able to adapt change

56:21

and influence the way these machines

56:23

represent them are those who have

56:26

control when it starts. And

56:28

for me, that means if... if

56:30

singularity is going to come, let's say, in

56:32

years' time. in years time

56:34

you already need to control. your

56:37

narrative in the brains of these machines.

56:40

because once they start running away with it, you're

56:42

going to be lost. Yeah. I

56:45

mean, five years seems maybe that you

56:47

know, way too quick, Jason,

56:49

but maybe I'm being sceptical. No,

56:52

I think you're being realistic. I'm

56:54

being naive, but that's my nature.

56:57

Okay, so have one question from the audience,

56:59

which I'll just put it on the stream

57:01

and I'll read it. So So, effectively,

57:04

how much control can a

57:06

business realistically have over its

57:08

brand store Google? considering

57:10

the influence of user -generated content

57:13

like reviews and media coverages? So,

57:16

I think we touched a little bit

57:18

when we talked about malicious you know. you,

57:21

sort of rebranding of you, but

57:23

let's say you have a lot

57:25

of content. Let's say you are a service, you

57:27

have reviews on G2 or platforms

57:29

where you people and you have

57:33

a of that with

57:35

projecting a certain image. And

57:37

you actually believe that that's a wrong image,

57:39

like. what can you do in

57:41

that case? Well, number

57:43

one, if people are saying something about you

57:45

on G2 in large numbers that you large

57:47

numbers that you don't agree with, then

57:49

you should ask yourself why saying this and you

57:51

should correct whatever it is that's making them say it. making

57:54

them say it. But something

57:56

we can bring out and that's something the

57:58

process will bring out because you'll see

58:00

these weaknesses. and these are weaknesses that

58:02

we don't like to see. We don't

58:04

want to look in the mirror and

58:06

admit to things like that, but managing

58:08

your brand representation in AI and search means

58:11

that you have to address these because they

58:13

won't lie. They're like children. They

58:16

don't make things up to make you

58:18

happy. They tell you things straight. So

58:21

number one is you need to

58:23

fix those problems. Number two

58:25

is gave an example of

58:27

pivoting Google's perception of Jonathan

58:30

Kronsted. We

58:32

also changed the AI's perception of

58:34

him. So of saying Jonathan Kronsted

58:36

the president of Kajabi, which

58:39

is what it said when we started. It

58:41

now says Jonathan Kronsted is an

58:43

investor, a business advisor and the president

58:45

of Kajabi. So we've just turned

58:47

around the perception. So

58:49

I would argue you obviously don't

58:52

control percent, but

58:54

you can change perception and change representation.

58:58

And if if you put your

59:00

mind to it. You

59:02

can always do it. We can always do it.

59:04

From our perspective at CaliQ, we don't say it's a

59:06

question of if we can do it, it's a

59:08

question of how long it will take. So

59:11

if you have a huge reputation problem, it will take

59:13

longer. If you have thousands

59:15

of people saying on G2 thing and

59:17

only two people saying the thing you

59:19

want to say that's going to take

59:21

some time to correct But can at

59:23

least point exactly what you need to

59:25

change what information is causing the

59:27

problem and I give you an example

59:29

about that as well is When

59:31

I say everything is algorithmic, people say, oh, yes,

59:33

but you can for a change in your panel. You

59:35

can write to a Google employee get them

59:38

to change it. You can

59:40

do that. and they can

59:42

change some things. but

59:44

they cannot change them permanently. So,

59:47

example, we had a client who

59:49

had who wrote

59:52

two or three books and she had a

59:55

A namesake, somebody with exactly the same name

59:57

as her. Who had written other

59:59

books. and Google them up.

1:00:02

She asked a Google employee, can you

1:00:04

remove that other person's book from

1:00:06

my panel? The Google

1:00:08

employee removed the book, two weeks later

1:00:11

it came back. Why?

1:00:13

Because the algorithm decided that the

1:00:15

human being had made a mistake. If

1:00:18

the algorithm decides that something is

1:00:20

true, it will be true. And

1:00:23

if it decides that it's true,

1:00:25

you have to figure out why

1:00:27

it thinks that's true and correct

1:00:29

the source of information in order

1:00:31

to correct the machine's perception of

1:00:34

the truth. So basically

1:00:36

manipulating the machine's of the truth.

1:00:38

And we do that very successfully.

1:00:41

Okay. So the

1:00:43

consistency, please Jason,

1:00:45

is is in

1:00:48

my head as a huge

1:00:50

challenge, operationally speaking, for businesses.

1:00:53

So let's say I have

1:00:55

a lot of presence.

1:00:58

I'm big operation, right? So I'm on LinkedIn, I'm

1:01:00

on Twitter, I'm on Facebook, I'm everywhere.

1:01:03

I'm on Medium and blog posts. having

1:01:05

the consistent message being sent everywhere

1:01:07

will be challenging to some

1:01:09

extent, right? So there's going to

1:01:11

be more people involved. I'll have

1:01:14

a media manager, which does my

1:01:16

Facebook. I have a media manager,

1:01:18

which does my LinkedIn. Another

1:01:21

Twitter. They all take information

1:01:23

from the source, which is

1:01:25

the company. Maybe we do a

1:01:27

video production and then then they repurpose that

1:01:29

content or whatever. So it's easy

1:01:31

to see how that message can be

1:01:33

skewed a little bit by the

1:01:35

people. So that's

1:01:38

my challenge it's like, how

1:01:41

do I control that? Like Is

1:01:43

it more of like, is it internal or

1:01:45

it external? Is that I allow my

1:01:47

operations to run and then I

1:01:49

use a tool like Kelly Cube actually

1:01:51

see what's happening and then controlling that?

1:01:54

Or is there a way internally I can

1:01:56

put in some type of controls to

1:01:58

make sure that whatever goes up? it's

1:02:01

actually consistent across all the channels. Yeah,

1:02:04

I mean internally, you would put

1:02:06

in place some kind of brand Bible

1:02:08

with images, colors,

1:02:12

messages that are to be used everywhere

1:02:14

but at some point if you want

1:02:16

to have any scalability you have

1:02:18

to let go and let your team

1:02:20

get on with the work that

1:02:22

they're specialized in. And as a CEO founder,

1:02:25

myself I would imagine you've come to the point

1:02:27

where you say if I don't trust them, there's

1:02:29

no point in having them on board I

1:02:31

should just do it all myself and that's obviously

1:02:33

impossible. So have to delegate and

1:02:36

you have to you're gonna have

1:02:38

to let go of the brand message

1:02:40

and your absolute control over the brand

1:02:42

message at which point you need tool

1:02:44

like Cali Cube in order to track so

1:02:46

that you can see when things are

1:02:49

going off message and especially you'll

1:02:51

notice when the machines like Google and

1:02:53

and chat start to misrepresent you. But

1:02:56

also our perspective

1:02:58

because we're refreshing our

1:03:00

data every week it's

1:03:02

an opportunity to systematically go back

1:03:04

in and double check everything every

1:03:06

week. So it's a really

1:03:09

good way to bring it all together and

1:03:11

make sure that everybody staying on track. You

1:03:13

can't do it at a micromanagement level but you

1:03:15

can definitely do it over time. Okay, so

1:03:17

sort of my next question which

1:03:20

was about empowering teams to own

1:03:22

the brand image or own

1:03:24

the brand storage online. So Sordaf

1:03:26

So it's sort of like you mentioned, if you

1:03:28

have some type of brand values or

1:03:30

brand handbook, people can follow if they

1:03:33

are responsible for for different channels. you know

1:03:35

the message is as unified as you

1:03:37

can be You not gonna

1:03:39

be able to fully control it As

1:03:41

a result you need a tool which

1:03:43

tracks the image and then rectify whatever

1:03:46

not to your likings. Okay,

1:03:49

so that's a effective answer. question. Can

1:03:52

I ask this and Yep, go to

1:03:54

it. and And addition

1:03:56

you mentioned earlier on user

1:03:58

content reviews. All of this

1:04:00

stuff needs to be tracked. You need

1:04:02

to be aware of it, and you

1:04:05

need to know when it's going to

1:04:07

be a problem. And advantage is

1:04:09

if you track Google search results

1:04:11

for your brand name and you look

1:04:13

right down pages 8, 9, 9, 10, you

1:04:15

can see trouble brewing. You can

1:04:17

see where things are starting to go

1:04:20

wrong and act before they become

1:04:22

a problem. So that's what

1:04:24

I would recommend. Before they become

1:04:26

a problem in the sense that you are being shown

1:04:28

in in the

1:04:30

SERPs in an image you don't want

1:04:32

to be shown in. Exactly.

1:04:34

Yes. Okay. Yes. You can

1:04:36

catch things early if you're tracking. Yeah,

1:04:39

100%. What

1:04:41

is the best

1:04:43

SEO secret

1:04:46

one big SEO advice

1:04:49

would give Jason? Right

1:04:51

now now, the SEO advice I would

1:04:53

give is focus on the

1:04:55

structure of your web

1:04:57

page, how you're presenting the

1:04:59

information on that page,

1:05:01

and focusing on making it

1:05:03

easy for the machines

1:05:05

to find and digest. And

1:05:09

the key to everything that

1:05:11

happens in terms of search

1:05:13

engine results, in terms of

1:05:15

brand representation by AI and

1:05:17

search engines, is how

1:05:19

effectively they can understand the

1:05:21

structure of the page, the

1:05:23

content of the page, the

1:05:25

meaning of the content of

1:05:27

the page, and how accurately

1:05:29

and confidently the bot can

1:05:31

annotate the page. Because what

1:05:33

happens when the bot comes

1:05:35

in is it breaks the

1:05:37

page down into chunks. It

1:05:40

identifies what each chunk of

1:05:43

the page does, what it

1:05:45

contains, an image, a piece of text, what the

1:05:47

text is about, what the image is of, is

1:05:49

it a video, is it a heading, is

1:05:51

it an answer to a question, and

1:05:53

annotates what it believes the function

1:05:56

of that piece of content

1:05:58

to be and what the content would

1:06:00

be. represents and gives it a

1:06:02

a score. And when

1:06:04

I talk the team at Bing, I interviewed

1:06:06

five team members at Bing. the

1:06:09

person who runs the Blue

1:06:11

algorithm, Fabry's Canal who builds Bingbot, Mina's

1:06:14

Merchant who does video and

1:06:16

images, and Nathan

1:06:19

who does the whole page algorithm. Oh,

1:06:22

and Ali,

1:06:25

I've forgotten second name. Who does

1:06:27

the feature snippets. This was four or

1:06:29

five years ago, and all of them said the

1:06:32

same thing. Without Fabrice

1:06:34

Canal's Bingbot annotations, we could not function.

1:06:36

We do not look at

1:06:38

the content itself. We look at

1:06:40

the annotations to decide if

1:06:42

the content is a candidate to

1:06:44

be included in a results

1:06:46

set. So you can

1:06:49

get your content. properly chunked

1:06:51

by Bingbot or Googlebot. properly

1:06:54

labeled annotated, and

1:06:57

annotated with a very high confidence

1:06:59

score. that's when you're in

1:07:01

with a chance of being included in the results. Is

1:07:03

there any tools which help with that? Like

1:07:05

if I a piece of content, how

1:07:08

can I know if it's going to be annotated at all?

1:07:11

Well, you would actually need multiple tools. It's

1:07:13

a a It's question, perhaps we should build

1:07:15

one. We have an HTML5 analyzer on

1:07:17

the CaliCube .pro website for geeks, and it

1:07:19

will show you the HTML5 and whether

1:07:21

or not it makes sense. HTML5

1:07:23

structure for the page

1:07:27

is very, very important. but

1:07:29

also HTML5 tables, headings, all of that, tables,

1:07:32

headings. All

1:07:34

of that incredibly important because

1:07:36

it gives structure and structure that the

1:07:38

bots can understand and rely

1:07:40

upon. Then you need to

1:07:42

analyze the chunks. that

1:07:44

would naturally pull out using an

1:07:46

LP to see if the machine would

1:07:49

understand it. at

1:07:51

that point. For example, if

1:07:53

you analyse a piece of text about

1:07:55

Jason Barnard, does it the correct

1:07:57

Jason Barnard? Does

1:08:00

it identify the correct JSON Barnard

1:08:02

explicitly, or is it guessing? So

1:08:05

you can actually both the structure structure the

1:08:07

page to see if the machine can chunk

1:08:09

it down, logically. And you

1:08:11

can analyse the chunks of text

1:08:13

and the chunks of content to understand

1:08:15

whether or not it actually understands

1:08:17

what it is you've written. That

1:08:19

would be my foundational piece of advice.

1:08:22

Another piece of advice is video. Video.

1:08:25

Video is increasingly important. important. And I

1:08:27

think what we fail to

1:08:29

realise is AI is very

1:08:31

good at doing transcripts, but

1:08:33

it gets a lot of

1:08:36

stuff wrong, especially people's names

1:08:38

and company names. I

1:08:40

would advise anybody who's creating

1:08:42

video on YouTube to go

1:08:44

through the transcript that's automatically

1:08:46

generated by YouTube and

1:08:48

it by hand, because that

1:08:50

is the version Google will

1:08:52

use. That is the version that

1:08:55

any will use in order to

1:08:57

understand what's going on in

1:08:59

the video. And it's necessarily more

1:09:01

accurate than the auto transcript and necessarily trusted.

1:09:05

And get a higher confidence

1:09:07

score when the machine is

1:09:09

putting that into its index.

1:09:11

Because it knows it's been

1:09:13

human corrected can therefore trust the

1:09:15

results more than something generated

1:09:17

automatically via YouTube. Okay.

1:09:19

That's a very valuable

1:09:21

insights. And we

1:09:25

produce as well for YouTube, yeah,

1:09:28

it's very evident that the

1:09:30

transcript sometimes, actually

1:09:33

sometimes, very often they've wronged on

1:09:36

very specific like technology terms or

1:09:38

people names, as you

1:09:40

mentioned Jason, and sort of

1:09:42

brand naming is, well, tool naming.

1:09:44

It just gets it totally off. And

1:09:47

within the transcript, we do these mistakes manually

1:09:50

and upload it. Yeah,

1:09:52

that's a very valuable insights. And it

1:09:55

gets it wrong, the brand mention becomes

1:09:57

completely useless. But another thing.

1:10:00

is that as human beings, we often

1:10:02

don't finish our sentences and we come back

1:10:04

halfway through and start again. And And

1:10:06

when you read it as a transcript,

1:10:08

it makes no sense at all. I

1:10:10

generally don't do that very

1:10:12

much. I make a

1:10:14

huge effort to keep my sentences when

1:10:17

I'm speaking very,

1:10:19

very structured. Because what you

1:10:21

just did before was go back halfway

1:10:23

through a sentence and start it again. And

1:10:25

as a a transcript, that wouldn't make sense to

1:10:28

the machine. So So you can actually go

1:10:30

back in and correct it to make it

1:10:32

into a proper sentence that

1:10:34

will make sense and easy for the machine

1:10:36

to digest. And it will be able to

1:10:38

label that piece of content more confidently. I

1:10:41

need to learn to speak better Jason. That's what

1:10:43

saying. I'm

1:10:45

sorry. That's a tip I need

1:10:47

to get home, right? I need to I need

1:10:49

to be short sentences. But you're

1:10:52

right. You're You're absolutely right. I I

1:10:54

mean, if you read the transcript

1:10:56

just that, and I did it

1:10:58

many times, because we

1:11:00

do on a website as well, you know,

1:11:02

we give the show notes, the resources, but

1:11:04

we do, we do give the transcript just

1:11:06

for SEO. And I was

1:11:08

preparing these transcripts in such a way that people

1:11:10

can read it better and they read it

1:11:12

almost like a you know, like a book or or

1:11:15

a post. And in in cases,

1:11:17

what said, said, it makes no

1:11:19

sense. Once you have a

1:11:21

a context, you of of make the sense. But

1:11:23

if you don't have a context you

1:11:25

just read in it, it's just not readable. So if a

1:11:27

human comprehend, how do you expect

1:11:29

the machine make any sense out of it? Yeah,

1:11:32

100%. 100 % Okay. Agreed. Excellent.

1:11:34

All right. Well, thanks everyone for

1:11:36

tuning in today. As Jason

1:11:38

shown us today, you know,

1:11:41

controlling your brand story

1:11:43

Google is not just about

1:11:45

ranking higher. It's about

1:11:47

crafting a story that drives growth and

1:11:49

leads towards an actual

1:11:51

lead generation possible

1:11:54

results by leveraging

1:11:56

SEO online, the reputation management actionable tactics.

1:11:59

you can turn your Google

1:12:01

presence into powerful asset for

1:12:03

yourself and your business. Jason,

1:12:05

if people want to

1:12:07

more learn about CaliCube, you, and

1:12:10

in general, the general, topic we just about, how do they

1:12:12

get in touch and where do they find you? Well,

1:12:15

they can search my name on Google, Jason

1:12:17

Varna, J -A -S -O -N -B -A -R

1:12:19

-N -A -R -D, or my company

1:12:21

CaliCube, K -A -L -I -C -U -B -E,

1:12:24

and the results will be absolutely perfect

1:12:26

because we walk the walk we are

1:12:28

actually very very at our jobs, even

1:12:30

with ourselves. But you can also ask

1:12:32

chat GPT. and what's nice there is don't

1:12:34

need to tell you, for example,

1:12:36

go to Twitter. You

1:12:38

get to choose. If you search my name on

1:12:40

Google, you'll see my personal website if you want

1:12:42

to learn more about me personally, my company website if

1:12:44

you want to do business with me, my Twitter

1:12:47

profile if you want to engage with me on

1:12:49

Twitter, LinkedIn profile if you want to

1:12:51

engage with me on LinkedIn, and and

1:12:53

articles if you want to

1:12:55

read more about the things that I'm communicating

1:12:59

I'm expert in knowledge panels,

1:13:01

SEO, managing brand, in

1:13:04

generative AI search engines. Excellent.

1:13:06

You choose. Thank you, Jason. So, and as

1:13:08

well, people listening or people watching, just

1:13:10

scroll down, see the show notes.

1:13:13

You'll have all the links in our

1:13:15

resource. Thank you again for

1:13:17

tuning in in this Mastering

1:13:19

Tech Graph episode we explore the brand storytelling

1:13:21

Google and how you manage,

1:13:23

protect and grow your online reputation.

1:13:26

If you find value in the show, please

1:13:28

do subscribe. Leave us a

1:13:31

review or a comment of Apple Podcasts,

1:13:33

Spotify, Cast Books, or wherever getting your

1:13:35

parts from. And as always, stay

1:13:37

safe and see you online.