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Masters of scale.com/business awards

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dash apply. Hey

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everyone we have a special

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episode today with Catherine Marr

0:47

CEO of NPR. Catherine has

0:49

been called to Capitol Hill

0:51

tomorrow Wednesday March 26th to

0:53

answer questions before a Doe

0:55

subcommittee in Congress along with

0:58

the CEO of PBS. You'll

1:00

hear an exclusive preview of

1:02

how Catherine plans to face

1:04

the congressional grilling and how

1:06

she hopes to reposition NPR's

1:08

liberal brand identity appealing instead

1:10

to all Americans and hopefully

1:12

winning not only their

1:14

trust but their continuing

1:17

tax dollars. Whether you're

1:20

a regular NPR listener

1:22

or not, we're at

1:25

an inflection point in

1:28

American society as questions

1:30

about impartiality and

1:32

information and truth come

1:35

fast and furious. I'm Bob

1:37

Safian and this is Rapid

1:39

Response. It's great to see

1:41

you again. When you joined NPR

1:43

last year, the organization faced

1:46

plenty of business challenges, audience,

1:48

engagement, business model. Since then,

1:51

the environment just got a whole

1:53

lot more fraught. There was a

1:55

high-profile criticism about newsroom bias last

1:58

spring from an editor on the

18:59

The lobatical is just one

19:01

of the ways that local ensures

19:03

their employees feel appreciated and cared

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for. And feeling appreciated is a

19:07

principle that is shared by their

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partnership with Capital One business.

19:12

We love our 2% cash back

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card. We can use the rewards

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to care for our employees. My

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favorite thing about Capital One, whenever

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I need to call, there's always

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a caring helpful voice on the

19:24

other end. You can't manufacture care,

19:26

especially in a big company, and

19:28

Capital One cares. Your

20:55

predecessor, John Lansing, said that diversifying

20:57

NPR staff was critical to help,

20:59

you know, attract younger more diverse

21:01

listeners, that this was kind of

21:03

the company's North Star was his

21:05

phrase. When your DEA officer retires

21:07

in May, you said you won't

21:09

be replacing the position. Was that

21:11

North Star Mission misplaced? piece of

21:13

work for us to do. And

21:15

we look at our staff today

21:17

and we do have a very

21:19

diverse staff both in terms of

21:21

racial and ethnic diversity, but also

21:23

in terms of generational diversity. That

21:25

was really important work for us

21:27

as an organization that was 50

21:29

years into our existence. You have

21:31

to have the ability to have

21:33

that refresh, to have new voices

21:35

come in, people from different backgrounds,

21:37

people who perhaps didn't have a

21:39

non-traditional approach to their journalistic career.

21:41

It's imperative that we continue to

21:43

do that work, not just in

21:45

the lens of say racial and

21:47

ethnic diversity or gender diversity. but

21:49

also in terms of socioeconomic diversity,

21:51

for example. I think that that

21:54

is the sort of thing that

21:56

often gets lost in these conversations.

21:58

Political diversity is another important piece

22:00

of it. I think it's great

22:02

when we have people who can

22:04

sit around a room in an

22:06

editorial meeting and challenge one another

22:08

to see different aspects of a

22:10

story. Group Think doesn't help anyone,

22:12

and it certainly doesn't lead to

22:14

great reporting. That to me is

22:16

a important piece of the work.

22:18

So yes, I think that we

22:20

did good work there. And now

22:22

the question is, how do we

22:24

translate into serving all audiences in

22:26

a way that feels reflective of

22:28

the American public as a whole?

22:30

So not replacing that DEI position.

22:32

It's not, I mean, one of

22:34

the things I worry about of

22:36

there's conversations about is sort of

22:38

the chilling effects of some of

22:40

pullbacks or decisions, you know, I

22:42

wonder how much you have to

22:44

sort of balance like... What is

22:46

practical for you to keep moving

22:48

forward today versus whether you're being

22:50

impacted by some of these, you

22:52

know, as you talk about one

22:54

of your listeners feeling like, oh,

22:56

it's not safe for me to

22:58

listen to NPR. Well, I didn't

23:00

say safe. I said that they

23:02

didn't feel like they had a

23:04

home. We want people to feel

23:06

like they belong in public radio.

23:08

And now the truth is, in

23:10

the past, lots of Americans, perhaps

23:12

people of color didn't necessarily feel

23:14

like they belonged in public radio.

23:16

So... I think that we have

23:18

to make sure that as we

23:20

expand that tent, we're expanding that

23:22

tent in a way that we're

23:24

keeping everyone in it. I was

23:26

talking to somebody who said, it's

23:28

not that I want to hear

23:30

my view all the time, I

23:32

just want to make sure I

23:34

hear my view some of the

23:36

time. And I'm like, yeah, that's

23:38

a reasonable thing. So we need

23:40

to make sure that we're bringing

23:42

on newsmakers, we need to make

23:44

sure that we're bringing on newsmakers,

23:46

we need to make sure that

23:48

we're interviewing people from across the

23:50

political spectrum, this administration that we're

23:53

covering, that's a reasonable thing. information

23:55

takes us. We'll cover the good,

23:57

we'll cover the unintended consequences. consequences

23:59

will cover the impact on day

24:01

to day. That's our job. But

24:03

I do want to come back,

24:05

I think you asked this question

24:07

about, you know, where do we

24:09

go? I want to be very

24:11

thoughtful about this. care very deeply

24:13

about ensuring that our staff represents

24:15

the nation, to make sure that

24:17

people feel welcome, and that they

24:19

can do their best work here.

24:21

I think that it is important

24:23

as an employer of people that

24:25

we continue to serve our people

24:27

well. And as we think about

24:29

what does diversity look like in

24:31

all of its forms, the work

24:33

that we're doing is about how

24:35

do we integrate that into our

24:37

our planning and our strategy and

24:39

our goals so that our audience

24:41

reflects the full range of the

24:43

way that we think about diversity

24:45

in the country as a whole.

24:47

And so we're just as we

24:49

make this transition with our chief

24:51

diversity officer retiring, we're moving some

24:53

of his colleagues to sit in

24:55

our chief operating officers function so

24:57

that all of their work is

24:59

also incorporated in how we think

25:01

about well, how do we know

25:03

that we're successful when we say

25:05

we want to reach all Americans.

25:07

What does that look like? What

25:09

do we need to know? How

25:11

do we need to plan and

25:13

resource for that? Some of your

25:15

old social media posts from 2018

25:17

have gotten attention supporting Black Lives

25:19

Matter, calling Trump racist. Now you

25:21

run the business side of NPR,

25:23

not its content, but it seems

25:25

increasingly risky to have business leaders

25:27

share opinions in any format, unless

25:29

your name is Elon Musk, in

25:31

which case you can say whatever

25:33

you want. What messages to some

25:35

of your personal opinions of the

25:37

past? How does that impact the

25:39

way you're trying to sort of

25:41

re-imagine, or I guess remind people

25:43

about what NPR stands for now

25:45

and into the future? Well, I

25:47

mean, those are tweets that I

25:49

sent more than half a decade

25:52

ago. It was a different time.

25:54

I had a very different role.

25:56

I was a private citizen at

25:58

the time. I had no sort

26:00

of public, facing a facing role.

26:02

between my role in the business

26:04

side as you rightly note and

26:06

our editorial function. So I don't

26:08

direct our reporting, I don't shape

26:10

our reporting, I'm not involved in

26:12

the way that we think about

26:14

reporting in any way. So my

26:16

personal views do not enter into

26:18

my work. Looking back at sort

26:20

of... something that I may have

26:22

said more than half a decade

26:24

ago feels as though it is

26:26

trying to muddy the waters around

26:28

the work that we're here to

26:30

do. Would I send those again?

26:32

I would not. You know, I

26:34

have a different role now. I

26:36

would never say something like that.

26:38

I set aside all of my

26:40

political views to take on this

26:42

role and that in and of

26:44

itself, I think, is how I

26:46

show up every single day is

26:48

with the sort of open-mindedness to

26:50

what does it really mean to

26:52

be able to be present for

26:54

the whole nation in this moment.

26:56

What do you think about how

26:58

Jeff Bezos has impacted content policy

27:00

at the Washington Post? Like, should

27:02

those who fund a media organization

27:04

have input into the content that's

27:06

produced? Well, I mean, the post

27:08

is the post, and so obviously

27:10

it's a private company, and they

27:12

have the opportunity to do what

27:14

they want there. I think the

27:16

big thing about public media and

27:18

public radio... What we do at

27:20

NPR is for starters we don't

27:22

have opinion programming. So I think

27:24

one of the things that was

27:26

a part of the conversation about

27:28

the post was the change in

27:30

terms of its op-ed pages to

27:32

a focus on free markets and

27:34

personal liberties. We don't do op-eds

27:36

at NPR. We are not an

27:38

opinion journalism organization. We are a

27:40

news organization that reports the news

27:42

and does so from a nonpartisan

27:44

perspective and our opinions don't come

27:46

into it. Now, that being said,

27:48

I never would interfere. with any

27:51

of our programming. I would never

27:53

interfere with the story. I believe

27:55

that it is imperative that the

27:57

chief executive of a media organization

27:59

stays out of the newsroom entirely.

28:01

I mean, I can walk through

28:03

the newsroom, of course, and say

28:05

hi to folks. But the idea

28:07

that that would be something that

28:09

I would do is just anathema

28:11

to how we operate as an

28:13

organization and frankly the newsroom would

28:15

have no patience for me if

28:17

I did even try to have

28:19

an opinion on that. So I

28:21

think that's a critical thing, I

28:23

think it's a critical distinction, I

28:25

know it's a hard distinction right

28:27

now because so many media organizations

28:29

do feel as though they reflect

28:31

their ownership but I don't own

28:33

NPR. You know, NPR is owned

28:35

by the American public. We are

28:37

a non-profit media organization that serves

28:39

the public interest, and this is

28:41

a very hard and bright line

28:43

in terms of how we operate.

28:45

A lot of Americans today say

28:47

they don't trust the media or

28:49

certainly don't trust parts of the

28:51

media, right? Like, what can you

28:53

do about that? First of all,

28:55

I think that Americans are really

28:57

smart, and I think that it

28:59

is important for us to start

29:01

from a position of respect for

29:03

our audience. believe that we have

29:05

the right to ask that they

29:07

just trust us blindly. I think

29:09

that it is our responsibility to

29:11

wake up every morning and seek

29:13

to be worthy of their trust.

29:15

So my my word on this

29:17

is trustworthy, not trusted. I think

29:19

we have to earn it. every

29:21

single day. I think that when

29:23

we make a mistake, we have

29:25

to acknowledge it. I think that

29:27

we have to be reflexive in

29:29

taking in criticism and assessing how

29:31

we continue to adapt and engage

29:33

with that criticism. You know, the

29:35

institutions that people trust most right

29:37

now are institutions that are agile

29:39

and responsive and can engage with

29:41

that kind of criticism, or they're

29:43

not institutions at all, they're individuals,

29:45

right? I mean, just the role

29:47

of sort of individual voices and

29:50

reporting the news is a huge

29:52

piece of the story right now

29:54

in terms of the number of

29:56

Americans who get their news from

29:58

influencers on social media. The key

30:00

piece here is that there's a

30:02

personal relationship, whether it's with the

30:04

institution, the company, or the individual,

30:06

and there's honesty in the transaction

30:08

of information or, you know, the

30:10

way in which the... talking to

30:12

your audience. I think that that's

30:14

where you build trust in this

30:16

moment. I expect that tomorrow you're

30:18

going to get versions of some

30:20

of these questions, so they'll probably

30:22

pose in slightly more confrontational language.

30:24

How do you prepare for that?

30:26

You know, I think that Congress

30:28

has a right. to ask questions

30:30

and it's my obligation to respond.

30:32

We receive federal funds. We're steward

30:34

of taxpayer dollars. It's my role

30:36

to walk in and answer those

30:38

questions. My hope is that it

30:40

is an opportunity to talk about

30:42

what some of the things I've

30:44

just talked about with you in

30:46

terms of our goals, our values,

30:48

the bright line between editorial and

30:50

business, the impartiality or nonpartisan nature

30:52

of what we do, the importance

30:54

of local journalism. But ultimately, you

30:56

know, I will answer the questions

30:58

that Congress asks and I will...

31:00

be there to be respectful of

31:02

their oversight function. How's the mood

31:04

and morale on your team these

31:06

days? Like they're here to go

31:08

to work. I just walked through

31:10

the newsroom to get here to

31:12

the studio and everyone's heads down.

31:14

They're working, they're reporting, they're producing,

31:16

they're getting ready to file their

31:18

story for all things considered or

31:20

they're getting ready for whatever band

31:22

is coming in for a tiny

31:24

desk next. I think that the

31:26

overall environment right now is that

31:28

people really want to. do the

31:30

work. There's a lot of news

31:32

in the world today, whether we're

31:34

thinking about the, you know, as

31:36

I said, transformative administration, whether we're

31:38

thinking about questions of space exploration,

31:40

we just had four astronauts come

31:42

back, that we have a great

31:44

science desk who loves to cover

31:46

that sort of stuff. So I

31:49

think people feel as though, of

31:51

course this is a different moment

31:53

in time and it is really

31:55

important that we show up and

31:57

are responsive to people's questions. about

31:59

the value of our work. I

32:01

come back to the fact that

32:03

when we talk about efficiency, public

32:05

radio is remarkably efficient. The cost

32:07

for public media on a... you

32:09

know, per American is $1.60. It's

32:11

basically, you know, when you go

32:13

to check out at CVS and

32:15

you're asked to round up to

32:17

a good cause, that's like, that's

32:19

us. That's what we cost. Public

32:21

radio costs less than a dollar

32:23

60, but public media as a

32:25

whole is a dollar 60 per

32:27

American per year. You know, as

32:29

I said, for every dollar federal

32:31

funding, seven dollars of private funding.

32:33

So I think we've got a

32:35

good story to tell and 75%

32:37

of Americans want to see public

32:39

media maintain or increase or increase

32:41

its current. funding levels. So again

32:43

that's I think that's the story

32:45

we're here to tell. Well Catherine

32:47

this was great thank you. Thanks

32:49

up. Tathrin seems

32:51

well prepared for the Doesh hearing,

32:54

emphasizing the breadth of NPR's audience

32:56

and a mission to impartially serve

32:58

all Americans, but I expect a

33:01

session titled Anti-American Airways will be

33:03

less forgiving about her old tweets

33:05

than she'd like, and more skeptical

33:08

about her assurances that she and

33:10

NPR are non-political and nonpartisan, which

33:12

would be a shame from a

33:15

fiscal perspective, a public-private venture that

33:17

brings in $7 for every $1

33:19

in government. support is a pretty

33:22

good model. I'm not a fan

33:24

of media that's 100% government supported,

33:26

that's a bit like a propaganda

33:29

machine to me, but I do

33:31

see a public interest in local

33:33

and community coverage that's predominantly backed

33:35

by donors and members. Plus for

33:38

the business community any further splintering

33:40

of media and information might escalate

33:42

U.S. divisions which creates More commercial

33:45

headwind than tailwind. Is all that

33:47

PBS and NPR and other public

33:49

media do worth $1.60 a year

33:52

in taxes? It is to me,

33:54

but I'm not part of the

33:56

Doge Committee. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks

33:59

for listening. Meet

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To learn more, go to capital1.com/business

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cards. AI's impact on the environment

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and of of AI, we

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wherever you get your

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36:31

Response is Aweight What

36:34

I'm Bob Bob Safian. Our

36:36

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