0:00

My guest today is Steve

0:02

Burns, a repeat guest. Steve

0:04

is a trader and author.

0:06

And I like to think of

0:08

him as the social media

0:11

guru. A lot of business

0:13

experience across

0:15

many different areas. I

0:17

always enjoy catching up

0:20

with Steve, and I hope you

0:22

do too. Please enjoy this

0:24

conversation. I

0:39

saw a post of yours about favorite,

0:41

let's say, market or money movies.

0:43

I thought your list is pretty fair.

0:45

You talked about Wolfle Wall Street,

0:48

Moneyball, Social Network, Big Short,

0:50

the accountant, which was an interesting

0:52

choice, which I really enjoyed. I think

0:54

that was with Bet Damon's friend Ben

0:56

Affleck. I want your view on it

0:58

too, and you can talk about some

1:00

others as well, but the thing I

1:03

loved about the big short was that

1:05

it got it right for those

1:07

particular types of traders. but was interesting

1:09

for me was it left out the

1:11

kind of traders that I write about

1:14

which made a bloody fortune in the

1:16

fall of 2008. The trend following

1:18

traders were not mentioned in the

1:20

big short because the trend following traders

1:22

did not have a fundamental

1:25

view about what was gonna happen.

1:27

They just made money regardless of what

1:29

happened. I'm sure for 99.9% of

1:31

market players out there, they have no

1:34

idea about that insight and maybe they missed

1:36

what I just said. I don't know. Give

1:38

me your thoughts about the big short. Yeah, I

1:40

agree with you. I think that's the

1:42

best realistic trading movie that was realistic

1:44

on how it actually works and what their

1:46

thought processes were, what their risk-court ratio was,

1:49

what they were thinking when they made the

1:51

trades, how they stayed in the trades. I

1:53

loved the part with Michael Burry or how

1:55

he was trying to get the stress off

1:57

beholden that big position and playing the drum.

1:59

and so many things were just so,

2:02

so good about it, but really captured

2:04

it. Sort of like the Road Trader

2:06

movie also did in the recent Dumb

2:08

Money. I think Dumb Money was up

2:10

there with the big short, a real

2:13

new movie. But like after the essence

2:15

of putting risk on and holding the

2:17

risk and dealing with the risk and

2:19

more convictions, where they had convictions about

2:21

the trades, where Trenton is not the

2:23

conviction, they're just on the price action.

2:26

It was just a fascinating to watch

2:28

the actual. realities of holding those positions

2:30

and seeing it play out in real

2:32

time and the thought process is behind

2:34

it. I thought it was one most

2:37

realistic depiction that I've ever seen of

2:39

the trading itself and how it works.

2:41

I'm in Vietnam right now and I

2:43

think something interesting about Michael Burry is

2:45

I have an associate here that I've

2:48

known for many years in the hedge

2:50

fund world. Vietnamese American guy who lives

2:52

here and he had a good fortune.

2:54

to meet Michael Burry several times in

2:56

America. And the reason they connected was

2:58

because Michael Burry is married to a

3:01

Vietnamese American woman. It's like such a

3:03

small world. Like you never know how

3:05

things are going to shake out or

3:07

where stories might come from or something.

3:09

The world is a fascinating place. But

3:12

yeah, he was a great character in

3:14

that movie. I got to say, though,

3:16

Wolf of Wall Street, which I think

3:18

there's a lot of love for that,

3:20

because maybe the girl in the movie

3:23

was so hot. I do think that

3:25

a lot of people have taken the

3:27

wrong lesson from that particular film. Don't

3:29

get me wrong, if I was 25

3:31

and I was drinking lots of alcohol,

3:33

I would probably have fun throwing midgets

3:36

too. I probably would enjoy it. But

3:38

I don't know that there's anything really

3:40

in that particular story that you can

3:42

learn a lesson from, except all the

3:44

wrong ways to do something. People always

3:47

tell me and when I have questions

3:49

and stuff about it, I always comment.

3:51

wolf loss rates are their favorite trading

3:53

movie and I said really that's more

3:55

entertainment being also scamming it teaches you

3:57

the scams behind penny stocks and helping

4:00

something up and high pressure sales and

4:02

wanting to get rich I think it

4:04

does. So you have the underlying current

4:06

of it is what not to do

4:08

and how not to get scanned and

4:11

how the penny pumps were in how

4:13

the full-service brokers work that charge you

4:15

a fortune for executing trade. I think

4:17

that's what I tell people. That's what

4:19

I tell my people. It's entertainment for

4:22

entertaining one of the most entertaining movies

4:24

I've ever seen. The Michael Burthing I

4:26

have a story too about. I talked

4:28

to a money manager long, long time

4:30

ago. And he was saying that he

4:32

actually got Michael Barry on the phone

4:35

early on when he first was starting

4:37

to become famous after the big short

4:39

he did. And he said that the

4:41

money manager told me that Michael Barry

4:43

told him he wished he just would

4:46

have shored the SB 500 futures. And

4:48

he would have all the drama derivatives

4:50

that he got Goldman Sachs to write

4:52

and how complex he made a simple

4:54

trade. And because it's anecdotal, but a

4:57

money manager told me that Michael Barry

4:59

said. as a good source and says

5:01

they wish you just would assure the

5:03

SPI-500 futures for liquidity and for ease.

5:05

And it would have worked out the

5:07

same because thesis was correct. I wonder

5:10

if he saw Paul Mulvaney's plus 45%

5:12

in the month of October 2008, which

5:14

was S&P futures trading as a trend

5:16

following trader. So you wonder, Michael Buries

5:18

obviously a smart guy. He might not

5:21

have known about trend following traders at

5:23

the time, but he probably in hindsight

5:25

figured out that... people did make a

5:27

bloody fortune in futures trading that particular

5:29

moment in history. Love more simple too.

5:31

You want to specifically bet on the

5:34

housing market and you want to do

5:36

it in the most complex way. I

5:38

mean the liquidity dangers alone on that

5:40

was incredible. I didn't have counterparty risks

5:42

and even the point where Goldman Sachs

5:45

might have went bankrupt without the bailout

5:47

of the government or AIG going bankrupt

5:49

not being even able to cover their

5:51

side of the trade like having counterparty

5:53

risk in the complex derivatives he was

5:56

using. He was really a deep value

5:58

investor and he came from Graham and

6:00

Doddsville where he was a deep value

6:02

investing as he got out of that

6:04

and slipped his mind thinking if I

6:06

buy deep value then you should be

6:09

shorting extremely overbought overvalued. things and he

6:11

wanted to inverse his deep value investing.

6:13

I think that's what led him to

6:15

that. He's very fortunate that it all

6:17

worked out and everything was bailed out.

6:20

He got out before the bailout happened

6:22

as well because he also could have

6:24

gotten hammered if he would have believed

6:26

that they were going to let everything

6:28

fall apart in the housing market and

6:31

the banking sector. That's so funny as

6:33

if his biggest win would have been

6:35

if Goldman Sachs itself failed out, which

6:37

was his counterparty counterparty risk. There's one

6:39

more film that I want to bring

6:41

up. The social network I found super

6:44

interesting because it got right at the

6:46

idea of what I would call ideas

6:48

and execution. Zuckerberg had ideas, had execution,

6:50

and I thought the whole process of

6:52

watching the American legal system unfold was

6:55

a little bit nauseous. Maybe I didn't

6:57

look at all the transcripts. Maybe the

6:59

two guys, the Winklevoss. Maybe they had

7:01

a legitimate issue. I don't know. They

7:03

got a settlement, but getting a settlement

7:05

doesn't necessarily mean you were right. That's

7:08

always complicated too. I do find that

7:10

part interesting, the legal part. I saw

7:12

some legal issues early on in my

7:14

career, and I got to tell you,

7:16

it's unfortunate when you get experience with

7:19

people abusing the system for essentially a

7:21

shakedown. That's fascinating than the way he

7:23

did that. Like you can't just simply

7:25

go do it and be open and

7:27

honest about it or even like keep

7:30

them in the loop. He had to

7:32

like go do it the most sneaky

7:34

devious manner and say he's working on

7:36

theirs where he's working on his own

7:38

Facebook. It's like why don't we think

7:40

so complicated? Like they said it's a

7:43

speeding ticket for him, who cares? It's

7:45

like working on being the richest person

7:47

in the world multiple times that he's

7:49

worried about a few of ankleelstable ankle

7:51

losses. It's incredible that Lincoln Boston stepped

7:54

that money and went all in on

7:56

Bitcoin. That would be a great movie.

7:58

The big long on that. That's the

8:00

craziest story. To follow up on them.

8:02

That is absolutely amazing that they took

8:05

that money and they went straight to

8:07

Bitcoin. That's a purely fundamental bet. But

8:09

sometimes in history, there are people that

8:11

just take that one bet and boom,

8:13

wham, bam, thank you ma'am. I mean,

8:15

it won't work for most people, but

8:18

there are winners in that type of

8:20

a betting structure. There are winners that

8:22

appear. It's always an equal. The thing

8:24

about all these things too, you have

8:26

a hard time finding, what the hell

8:29

is the truth? Because like you and

8:31

I, we just expressed a slightly different

8:33

take on the wingelvos and maybe you're

8:35

right, maybe I'm right, who the something

8:37

that I've really liked in my work,

8:39

which is on the price action and

8:42

looking at the trend following performance histories,

8:44

it's like, yeah, there it is. You

8:46

could have all the opinions in the

8:48

world about it, but there it is.

8:50

I've always loved that. The price is

8:53

true. I mean, all that, that's the

8:55

thing. It's so funny, the vast majority

8:57

of the markets and traders and investors

8:59

get so tied up in knots over.

9:01

Why is this going on? What should

9:04

be the price? And what's going to

9:06

happen next? They get the success with

9:08

that. The beauty of the trend followers

9:10

is just cutting through all the noise

9:12

it just. What's price doing? Okay, it

9:14

broke out. Okay, it's an up trend.

9:17

Okay, I want to keep holding it.

9:19

So, the trend. Okay, I want to

9:21

keep holding it. So, the trend finally

9:23

broke based on my parameters. I'm going

9:25

to go in and lock in my

9:28

province and just cut through all the

9:30

BS. Like the ultimate pareto principle, the

9:32

ultimate pareto principle like, like, trin following

9:34

it focuses on the focuses on the

9:36

1% that focuses on the 1% that

9:39

focuses on the 1% that focuses on

9:41

the 1% that matters. I'm talking like

9:43

a mathematician or a physicist right now,

9:45

which I'm not, but there is a

9:47

certain elegance and a certain beauty to

9:49

it even though it's dealing with such

9:52

wide uncertainty and variability, but to craft

9:54

mathematics around uncertainty and variability and make

9:56

it work. It's just fascinating that these

9:58

old pros figured it out. A lot

10:00

of it's just math. It's just a

10:03

risk ward ratio, profit factor, a big

10:05

win, small losses. The trade management genius

10:07

of where the true followers don't have

10:09

to adapt a lot to market environments

10:11

because built into their strategy itself where

10:13

if their stopped losses hit, okay, they're

10:16

getting out. If their trolling stop is

10:18

still in line, they're letting it run.

10:20

They don't even have profit targets for

10:22

the most, almost never. They usually just

10:24

let it run until it was running

10:27

and they can capture moves that nobody

10:29

could have imagined. A good trend follower

10:31

would have caught in a video and

10:33

you'd have to be a nut to

10:35

have caught in a video and the

10:38

run has had this year. Every conceivable,

10:40

technical, fundamental reason it didn't possibly go

10:42

there and it went there. Sort of

10:44

like the fundamental Amazon, the only way

10:46

it's worth this is if it takes

10:48

over retail itself. unless it does that.

10:51

It did do that. And like Tesla,

10:53

Tesla would have to sell more cars

10:55

and all the other car companies to

10:57

be worth it. This is crazy. He

10:59

didn't miss the whole trend like it

11:02

did. It ended up being the number

11:04

one selling car and being the one

11:06

of the few companies that didn't go

11:08

bankrupt. It's funny that the price was

11:10

before the fundamentals caught up by years

11:13

and years and years. I remember on

11:15

the... fundamental stock trader side nobody could

11:17

figure out Tesla or Amazon they just

11:19

couldn't get why in the world the

11:21

priced trend was in place and it

11:23

played out to be true and a

11:26

trend followers with stocks could have caught

11:28

that without having any fundamental expertise knowing

11:30

a damn thing about electric cars. Yep

11:32

that's what the beauty of it was.

11:34

I made a great profits on Apple

11:37

back in 2007 and never even on

11:39

iPhone and every son iPhone never used

11:41

an iPhone but it was just breaking

11:43

all-time high time highs. I just kept

11:45

following, it was a price line, I

11:47

never used price line, I didn't know

11:50

the website work to just following pure

11:52

price action. Let me bring up a

11:54

guy that I know you're a fan

11:56

of, interesting because I think he's a

11:58

little more mysterious than the pure trend

12:01

following traders that are known in my

12:03

world. But Paul Tudor Jones, who was

12:05

somebody that originally influenced me too, especially

12:07

the trader film and the way he

12:09

described, I think it was either a

12:12

family friend or his uncle. and down

12:14

in New Orleans and handling a bad

12:16

trade and all that kind of stuff.

12:18

The interesting about Paul Tudor Jones is

12:20

I can't speak to what percentage of

12:22

price action only trading he's done over

12:25

the years. Clearly a significant amount. But

12:27

I think he's kept things a little

12:29

more mysterious back in the day. There

12:31

were stories. And you see this with

12:33

some famous traders. If something happens early

12:36

on, that people will think forever for

12:38

the last 40 years Paul Tudor Jones

12:40

has been using Elliot Wade, which I

12:42

don't think is true. I think it's

12:44

interesting because he reminds me of a

12:47

guy with so many of the things

12:49

that he said, like the image you

12:51

recently posted. With the background behind him

12:53

that sheet of paper that says losers

12:55

average losers and I want you to

12:57

talk about that someone asked the other

13:00

day I guess a lot of people

13:02

see that picture and they don't even

13:04

think about that the most important thing

13:06

is not that Paul looks cool or

13:08

whatever It's the piece of paper behind

13:11

him. I also want to add to

13:13

for some more grist for you. I

13:15

think Paul Jones the way that he

13:17

trades He spells it out in Anthony

13:19

Robbins book. He tells everybody I'm a

13:21

price action guy I know you're a

13:24

big fan. First, I'd like to give

13:26

credit to you for finding that Polititur

13:28

Jones picture somewhere you found at Neathin

13:30

the library and posting it. I think

13:32

financial world magazine. I have the original

13:35

copy probably 87, 88, 89, something like

13:37

that. You're an archaeologist to find that

13:39

trading pick and share. I guess it's

13:41

been 13 years ago. I put that

13:43

sucker online probably between 96 and 98.

13:46

Way before I even got here, that

13:48

was good work. We need more of

13:50

the trading archaeology online or lost images.

13:52

I know you're a big fan of

13:54

Jones. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Losers,

13:56

average losers. I think he summarized poetically

13:59

counter trend following like somebody wants especially

14:01

the danger of value investing for the

14:03

wrong stock or even buying a deal

14:05

where somebody goes and buys something or

14:07

oversold chart they go buy it then

14:10

he goes against them so it looks

14:12

better like instead of looking better or

14:14

buy more into it. It keeps going

14:16

against you. It's like instead of going

14:18

with the flow you're doing the opposite

14:21

of whatever trend follower to do hoping

14:23

it's under value so it's going to

14:25

come back and then to start adding

14:27

to that and compounding the problem and

14:29

trying to like dollar cost average. upside

14:31

down until you think you get a

14:34

lower cost. basis and you end up

14:36

losing more money. That's what people ask

14:38

me, you know, why don't I add

14:40

to something or it's a better value?

14:42

It's like, I'm not trading to lose

14:45

money. I'm not a trade for it

14:47

to go against me and cost me

14:49

money. I'm not going to reward a

14:51

bad trade with more capital and keep

14:53

going against it, hoping that it bounces.

14:55

People have seen get trapped waiting for

14:58

it to get back to even. something

15:00

cost and wanting to hold it and

15:02

keep losing more money and hoping it's

15:04

back to even then they're priced themselves

15:06

when it gets back to even they've

15:09

lost the money they've lost their time

15:11

they've lost their opportunity cost and just

15:13

keep holding it. What a brilliant way

15:15

to summarize it losers average losers because

15:17

obviously he got on wrong side of

15:20

something before and learned a big lesson

15:22

with a lot of money. He's the

15:24

one quote where he says he said

15:26

to himself hey Mr. Well, I love

15:28

the idea too that it is a

15:30

pretty direct critique of dollar cost averaging,

15:33

which I don't think most people would

15:35

think of or catch on and use

15:37

the phrase I was thinking it used

15:39

it first, but it is a great

15:41

way for people to think. If they're

15:44

listening right now and they're thinking, this

15:46

Mike and Steve, they're not really explaining

15:48

losers average losers as said by Paul

15:50

Tudor, Joe's, and they're talking about dollar

15:52

cost averaging. Well, okay, if it's not

15:55

making sense to you. Right down both

15:57

concepts on a piece of paper and

15:59

start to understand them because you can

16:01

get the idea of losers average losers

16:03

and the difference between dollar cost averaging

16:05

You're right back to kind of a

16:08

price-based trend following mindset First people mix

16:10

up investing like Warren Buffett does as

16:12

a positive expectancy what trend followers does

16:14

as a positive expectancy, but people try

16:16

to mix them and match them together

16:19

Warren Buffett's waiting 10 years for a

16:21

company to get back to its true

16:23

value based on projected features value of

16:25

earnings. So that's completely different than when

16:27

a trader trying to profit from price

16:29

action in a set shorter time frame.

16:32

I think people try to like are

16:34

somebody who's retiring trying to dollar cost

16:36

hours in the SB 500 over a

16:38

10 year, 20 or 30 year period

16:40

is a very different ballgame. Somebody trying

16:43

to trade price action to make money

16:45

in a shorter time. frame and people

16:47

try to mix those together, which I

16:49

still believe in long term this buy

16:51

and hold investing in SB 500 is

16:54

going to have a cataclysmic pain on

16:56

buying hold investors that they can't even

16:58

imagine whether holding thinking they have no

17:00

risk in 10 point of your periods

17:02

after what happened in 2008. And the

17:04

only reason that everything came back was

17:07

for massive government bailout and money printing

17:09

and buying US treasuries and putting it

17:11

on the Fed balance sheet of easing.

17:13

I will never forget and burn my

17:15

psyche all the people that you know

17:18

dollar cost average buying hold investing and

17:20

when I think it was March of

17:22

2009 where all the gains from 1997

17:24

late 1997 all the way to March

17:26

in 2009 was wiped out I'll never

17:29

forget that moment thinking people they were

17:31

ready to retire in dollar cost average

17:33

and bought and held the S&P 500

17:35

even long and to see all those

17:37

gains all those bull markets everything vanished

17:39

everything that held even everything never came

17:42

back from the internet all disappear. I'll

17:44

never forget that. I just can't. They

17:46

think we take risk and sit there

17:48

and just hold everything for the benefit

17:50

of the money managers, mutual fund managers,

17:53

and the ETS are getting paid to

17:55

just hold something blindly. It's shocking to

17:57

me. And right now we're in our

17:59

biggest bubbles in the history of civilization

18:01

right now with massive debts and deficit

18:03

spending that's fiat currency risk. Everything being

18:06

diverse, the fiat currency is just incredible

18:08

how this all plays out. And trendfolars

18:10

can capture it either direction. Let me

18:12

clarify for the audience though, because there

18:14

was probably some very smart individual out

18:17

there thinking to themselves, hold on, Mike

18:19

and Steve are talking about price action

18:21

trading, following the price which does not

18:23

require fundamentals. But hold on, Mr. Burns

18:25

just talked about inflation, money printing, deficit

18:28

spending, etc. Why is he talking about

18:30

that? Well, let me tell you why

18:32

he's talking about that, because we can

18:34

walk and chew gum at the same

18:36

time. And the fact that trading as

18:38

price action traders works as trend following

18:41

traders works does not mean that I

18:43

am not allowed to criticize in... saying

18:45

government actions. So there we are, right?

18:47

Yeah, it makes people good that people

18:49

ask me. They want all that macro

18:52

stuff and I'm not anywhere macro person

18:54

at all. I'm just, I'm gonna trade

18:56

the price action. If it's trending up,

18:58

if I get my signals, I'll get

19:00

my signals, I'll go long. If I

19:03

don't know if I get my signals,

19:05

I'll go long. If I don't know,

19:07

I'll trade my signals, I'll go long.

19:09

I'll get on side of it and

19:11

be like a bury position. Everything was

19:13

being supported in any way it could

19:16

in every way and he was wrong

19:18

because he wasn't following prize action. He

19:20

was doing long-term position trades and even

19:22

the crashes were short. If he was

19:24

even able to get out of those,

19:27

that's what's so fascinating me. is an

19:29

example of like my opinion, not getting

19:31

a way of trading. And Facebook was

19:33

going IPO, and I was talking to

19:35

him just from a business perspective. Facebook

19:37

is the greatest advertising platform ever created.

19:40

It seemed better than Google, and it's

19:42

going to be a monster company, and

19:44

it's going to be a monster company,

19:46

have monster company, have monster earnings. It's

19:48

the monster company, have monster earnings. It's

19:51

the most company, like 17, and it's

19:53

like, and it crashed. I said no,

19:55

I actually made money on it because

19:57

when it lost the IPO price, I

19:59

would short be a put options weekly

20:02

at the money in the money, both

20:04

put options and made money on the

20:06

down trend in the IPO and I

20:08

was the opposite of what I thought

20:10

I had no idea what was going

20:12

to happen. It was going to be

20:15

long term. It was fundamentally going to

20:17

be an amazing company, but I could

20:19

still short it if it lost the

20:21

IPO price because it broke that and

20:23

it was in a down trend and

20:26

it was in a down trend. I

20:28

held that for weeks and rotatedate. move.

20:30

My put-off just rolled them and it's

20:32

like people like what? You took the

20:34

opposite of what you believe long term?

20:37

Like yes, that's what a trader is

20:39

straight in the price action. I'm not

20:41

buying whole investor. I'm not going to

20:43

buy the IPO and hold it for

20:45

20 years. People are brain short-circuited. Like

20:47

how could I be doing the opposite

20:50

of what I was talking about from

20:52

a company standpoint? which I would argue

20:54

the money, the inflation is a direct

20:56

result of the money printing, but it's

20:58

perfectly fine for thinking people to say,

21:01

I detest the idea that two Americans

21:03

who want to go to McDonald's and

21:05

buy a Coke, Burger, and Fry's, two

21:07

people, now spend $30 to $35 at

21:09

almost any location in America. And that

21:12

is directly a result of people. playing

21:14

games with the money supply. Now that

21:16

doesn't mean I'm sitting around taking into

21:18

account what's going on with the money

21:20

printing to make a trading decision. I'm

21:22

not, but I'm also not going to

21:25

sit around and approve of society going

21:27

down that you know what proverbial blank

21:29

blank blank. I think that's just something

21:31

that people need to understand is that

21:33

I had a conversation with CEO of

21:36

Dunk Capital recently. Marty Bergen and we

21:38

were talking about Bill Dunn because they're

21:40

coming up on their 50, 50, 50,

21:42

50 continuous track record with trend following

21:44

and he made the comment. He said,

21:46

you know, Bill has set up foundations

21:49

and I hope I don't get this

21:51

wrong, but literally hundreds of millions of

21:53

dollars supporting essentially liberty type causes. You

21:55

got a price action trend following trader

21:57

who still says, hey, hold on. I

22:00

don't like what we're doing as a

22:02

society. So I just think that distinction

22:04

is really important. I know you agree

22:06

with me. We share a similar belief

22:08

there. Absolutely. But you said the opinions

22:11

and trading of two very different things.

22:13

You get whatever prediction, opinion you want,

22:15

but it shouldn't affect your trading system.

22:17

I'm not going to be in America

22:19

until late November. How many cans of

22:21

tuna, bottled water, and AK-47s have you

22:24

acquired coming up for the election? Are

22:26

you ready to go? I voted last

22:28

election was in November 2022. I voted

22:30

by moving. I moved to Florida in

22:32

the body. ocean. So I'm the safest

22:35

place you can be or whatever goes

22:37

on. Are you in the panhandle? Yeah,

22:39

I don't breeze Florida. It's close to

22:41

Pensacola. I'm a South, but a South

22:43

side getting as I go down farther

22:46

in Florida. Oh, in Miami or Key

22:48

West, Libertarian type area. I've done the

22:50

drive before, and you would probably remember

22:52

the highways, but I did the drive

22:54

once coming from Virginia, coming down through

22:56

Charlotte. and then taking a highway straight

22:59

through Alabama to come in down near

23:01

Fort Walton. And also when I went

23:03

to school at Tallahassee, and you'll know

23:05

how long this is, I went to

23:07

school at Tallahassee at FSU, I once

23:10

took a drive nonstop by myself. This

23:12

is completely psychotic. I drove from South

23:14

Padre Island to Tallahassee, Florida, nonstop, except

23:16

stopping four times developed for gas five

23:18

minutes, a grand total of 20 minutes

23:20

of stopping. 17 and a half hours

23:23

from South Padre Island to Tallahassee. That's

23:25

a hike, man. That is a psycho.

23:27

John Sina has a story where he

23:29

said he did that, the wrestler. He

23:31

drove all through Florida, like all the

23:34

coasts and stuff. Something about driving out

23:36

here is different when you drive close

23:38

to water. Let me shift you into

23:40

something that I know is near and

23:42

dear to you and you post a

23:45

lot about it as well, which is

23:47

the thinking, and it's very Buddhist principles.

23:49

And I love that you always, regularly,

23:51

religiously, will post about stoic habits. Things,

23:53

for example, and I was telling two

23:55

assistants that work for me today about

23:58

this very idea, which is, let's control

24:00

what we can control. Let's don't worry

24:02

about what we can't control. And if

24:04

you approach life, you approach trading like

24:06

that, what can we control? Man, everything

24:09

comes a lot easier. All the friction

24:11

in life, all the nonsense in light,

24:13

it just slows down. What can I

24:15

control? I've got dreams of this, I

24:17

want to do this, but I can't

24:20

control that. So let's just focus on

24:22

right here. Love that. I always applied

24:24

that with my psychology books and things

24:26

about your trade management. You choose, you

24:28

develop your system, you look at your

24:30

signals and your back testing and your

24:33

trade management, your stock loss and your

24:35

trailing stock, just what you can control.

24:37

And like you said, it just cuts

24:39

out all the opinions, all the predictions,

24:41

all the predictions, so much stress. Like,

24:44

oh well, my stock loss was hit,

24:46

then move on the next train, like,

24:48

oh good, it's still running, just like

24:50

you said, it just makes your mind

24:52

quieter when you gloss all the external

24:54

ceilings, has nothing to do with your

24:57

trading, or even what you're going to

24:59

do, but like you said, they just

25:01

get sucked into the focus on the

25:03

stuff that doesn't matter completely, which is

25:05

really odd. You and I are in

25:08

roughly the same age group, both Gen

25:10

X, I believe. But, but... No one

25:12

talked to me about this kind of

25:14

stuff when I was younger. Nobody. I'm

25:16

guessing with you, you might have been

25:19

similar to me. Maybe late 20s, 30s,

25:21

even 40s, it starts to come across

25:23

your desk. But it's like, where was

25:25

this? Now, a lot of young people

25:27

today, they've been exposed to for example,

25:29

Ryan Holliday has written many books about

25:32

stoicism. A lot of younger people probably

25:34

got exposed to it earlier than we

25:36

did. I'm jealous of an... trolling around

25:38

libraries and bookstores and reading for as

25:40

long as I can remember. Even my

25:43

late teenage years, I hardly ever stumbled

25:45

across any steluses. I don't think I

25:47

stumbled across Marcus Aurelius until maybe 10,

25:49

50 years in the reading. I mean,

25:51

how in the world was that hidden?

25:54

I guess it was more popularized later,

25:56

but it was just not popular. It

25:58

was ancient books. I guess Ryan Holiday

26:00

and some others outbreak to the forefront.

26:02

Well, I've got a theory about that

26:04

as you're talking about that, as you're

26:07

talking about that. of the woke indoctrination

26:09

camps when it came to schooling. I'm

26:11

sure if I could go back to

26:13

my college days and late... 80s, early

26:15

90s, I'm sure most of the subjects,

26:18

topics, books, etc. that were coming across

26:20

my desk were probably nonsense. It's probably

26:22

completely nonsense. Now, I feel bad for

26:24

the kids today. It's far worse today.

26:26

Who knows what the poor children are

26:28

being taught today at university. Actually, I

26:31

know what they're being taught. I'll try

26:33

to say this in a family friendly

26:35

way. I have a nephew at the

26:37

University of Virginia. His first year there,

26:39

his very first class was... Let's use

26:42

some Thailand terminology. Essentially, the class was

26:44

about lady boys. And I'm thinking to

26:46

myself, you know, I told my sister,

26:48

I was like, what the hell is

26:50

going on? What is this? This isn't

26:53

education. This is Dr. Nation Gap. Now,

26:55

maybe some people are listening to you

26:57

there saying, well, hold on, Mike, this

26:59

guy, Mike is going off the rails.

27:01

Well, like's not going off the rails.

27:03

I've been talking like this. It's I'm

27:06

18. Be doing strange things in Thailand?

27:08

Hey, that's your cup of tea, not

27:10

my cup of tea. I've always been

27:12

concerned that everything I've learned and concerned

27:14

myself in the autodidact and holly math,

27:17

or I've studied and studied and read

27:19

so much stuff it's staggering because I

27:21

get bored and that's what I do.

27:23

The school doesn't even teach basic literacy,

27:25

much less financial literacy, much less business

27:28

entrepreneurship, investing, emotional control, even psychology, psychology,

27:30

success privilege. It's amazing to me that

27:32

they don't teach life skills. and they

27:34

were just teaching like these high level

27:36

academic concepts that apply very little to

27:38

anyone's life but then they even go

27:41

from that to now they start trying

27:43

to indoctrinate weird things that have nothing

27:45

to do with any kind of reading

27:47

writing arithmetic or education but then don't

27:49

even touch on all the things that

27:52

people be using their lives like tax

27:54

preparation or financial literacy it's just staggering

27:56

and civic. Let me pick a bone

27:58

with you though I don't think you

28:00

really want to use the word high

28:02

level. It's a level. I don't know

28:05

what level it is. It's a demonic

28:07

level maybe. There's another stoic principle that

28:09

you brought up and I saw. one

28:11

of your blog posts recently, which, you

28:13

know, it's basic. I'm not saying anything

28:16

earth shattering when I say this, but

28:18

content. The idea of being content, like,

28:20

okay, I've got a plan, I will

28:22

execute each day, but if I don't

28:24

get this reward or I get some

28:27

kind of less reward today, that I

28:29

find a way to stay in the

28:31

moment and content right now. I see

28:33

too many people that that's really hard

28:35

for them. You're just happier when you're

28:37

content. I just want to clarify a

28:40

high level. I've spent like algebra and

28:42

calculus is what I was talking about.

28:44

High level like a different language. High

28:46

level Thai lady boy studies. No, I

28:48

wasn't on with that. I know that's

28:51

craziness. I was talking about high level

28:53

like stuff you never use like calculus.

28:55

But yeah the content but that's the

28:57

other thing about all this but we

28:59

get back to the dabble into the

29:02

political thing but the content is like

29:04

context like according to who when people

29:06

say stuff like whatever their political beliefs

29:08

are is like according to who according

29:10

to what context if you said this

29:12

is someone a different country and whatever

29:15

an different country and whatever an American

29:17

I mean the most privileged people that

29:19

exist in the history civilization are modern

29:21

day Americans and somehow twisted and not

29:23

be content with what we have with

29:26

what we have with what we have

29:28

what was built and how not to

29:30

appreciate where we're at and how all

29:32

these weird strange narratives victim it's funny

29:34

why the other psychological success blog posts

29:36

in like almost everything is political now

29:39

like victims like the things that are

29:41

negative you can almost put it into

29:43

political terms like victimhood and I'm not

29:45

believing in yourself and believing you don't

29:47

have control of your own circumstances and

29:50

not having the ability to take risks

29:52

and not taking self-responsibility or things are

29:54

like success principles or like almost political

29:56

movements now. And those are the negative

29:58

aspects that cause you to be unsuccessful.

30:01

But now they're like political movements. Men

30:03

and women are different with different constitutions,

30:05

so to speak. I feel very sad

30:07

for men who walk into the public

30:09

arena, whether that's X, Facebook, link. in,

30:11

men that walk into the public arena

30:14

and profess their victimhood. The reason I

30:16

feel sorry for them is because no

30:18

man of success will have any respect

30:20

for you. If you walk into the

30:22

public arena and you feel like, okay,

30:25

I've had all this schooling and this

30:27

schooling tells me I must share my

30:29

feelings and this and that and whatever,

30:31

no, no, no, no. If you walk

30:33

out there and you start talking like

30:36

that, You don't know who's seeing you.

30:38

You don't know who's watching. You don't

30:40

know who you might bump into. If

30:42

you walk out there into the public

30:44

arena and you start talking about victimhood

30:46

and this and that and some sin

30:49

from eons ago and that's put upon

30:51

you, man, I feel sad for men

30:53

that do that. That's just the wrong

30:55

path. Amasculation is disturbing to see. people

30:57

masculine. You almost fell before you've even

31:00

begun. If you're starting out masculated and

31:02

not being powder in charge of your

31:04

own destiny, I don't understand it. Come

31:06

from very humble backgrounds and I've always,

31:08

you know, the external world had no

31:10

bearings on what I was going to

31:13

do. I had very focused goals. I

31:15

had written goals what I was going

31:17

to do and that's why I directed

31:19

my time and energy. I can't imagine

31:21

directing my time and energy into victimhood

31:24

or any strange mindset, a growth mindset

31:26

versus a fixed mindset. and the abundance

31:28

mindset versus the scarcity minds. I mean,

31:30

these are psychological principles to success. As

31:32

Gen X Men, we were probably on

31:35

the forefront of attempting to tell men

31:37

that any aspect of masculinity was bad.

31:39

And I think there is a counter-revolution,

31:41

so to speak, happening right now. And

31:43

frankly, it's being led by Elon Moss,

31:45

who is a man. that when it

31:48

comes to men, every man just looks

31:50

at him and says, wow, it's not

31:52

only is it the words, it's the

31:54

action, it's the doing, and I think

31:56

they're starting to be a revival of

31:59

men. who say, you know what, we

32:01

got to start leading again. We

32:03

can't just sit back. We

32:05

just can't listen to all

32:07

this kind of stuff that

32:09

we've listened to, the division,

32:12

the toxic aspects, the victimhood,

32:14

the identity politics. This stuff

32:16

has been a drain and a major

32:18

waste on society. I'll bring it

32:20

back to trading, for example. I'm

32:22

sure plenty of young men who

32:25

otherwise perhaps could have fallen

32:27

into love with trading and...

32:29

gone down this path and

32:31

mastered everything, they might have

32:33

gotten sidetracked in university to

32:35

talk about subjects and topics that

32:37

are useless and waste their time

32:40

and then wake up many many

32:42

years later and maybe they're just angry

32:44

or something. I do hope there is

32:47

a revival. It feels like

32:49

there's a revival of leadership in

32:51

people doing the right thing. I hope so.

32:54

psychological shift in an awakening in the

32:56

world, the Western world. I think Asia has

32:58

not gotten out tracks for the most part,

33:00

but a lot of the Western world has

33:02

gotten very bizarre. Like even the entrepreneur in,

33:05

Elon Musk is undisputed, the greatest entrepreneur there

33:07

ever lived. Undisputed, I don't know how you

33:09

even begin that someone's not the greatest entrepreneur

33:11

and probably the greatest minds that ever existed.

33:14

And the West is almost starting to

33:16

even demonize capitalism itself to a level

33:18

like it never has, an entrepreneurship in

33:20

like... thinking somehow that there's some

33:22

solution to all problems instead of

33:25

self-responsibility and thinking that even the

33:27

government that causes problems with

33:29

the monetary policies are just going

33:31

to solve the monetary policy problems.

33:33

It's getting very bizarre or people are

33:36

not educated. We're not educating people coming

33:38

up in the world or not educating the

33:40

right ways. It's getting bizarre like they've

33:42

broken from logic and reason and math

33:44

and have gone down a different road,

33:47

which could be the destruction of civilization

33:49

itself. Part of this stems from

33:51

the idea that there will be

33:53

a safety net for everybody. There

33:56

is no safety net for

33:58

anybody or ever. It doesn't

34:00

work like that. The only thing you

34:02

can do as an individual is to

34:04

count yourself. And so again, I'll take

34:07

it back to young men. If young

34:09

men listening, think the safety net comes

34:11

from Washington, D.C., you're already gone. Okay,

34:13

maybe you're working for some nonprofit, maybe

34:15

you're working in politics, and you're getting

34:17

paid to go out there and say

34:20

that, you know, the government can create

34:22

a safety net, the government can take

34:24

care of you in at night. and

34:26

maybe if you're really lucky the Fed

34:28

chair will stay the night with you.

34:31

But that's not the way the real

34:33

world works. I hope this awakening that

34:35

you and I are speaking of does

34:37

start to unfold. I also don't think

34:39

just to be clear, I don't necessarily

34:41

think any one election is going to

34:44

make a difference. I think the real

34:46

issue is just men waking up and

34:48

saying enough. We're going to take personal

34:50

responsibility and that's the real issue. Both

34:52

of my children are on the extreme

34:55

polar opposites of the political scale. All

34:57

of my children have those funny talks.

34:59

I get to see all the different

35:01

extremes in both directions. They always try

35:03

to get beefed in what my politics,

35:05

like my politics is economics. I don't

35:08

even care about politics, care about economics,

35:10

like the economic reality of what the

35:12

people are doing, what the parties are

35:14

doing, what their history, what they did

35:16

were. The consequences of what they did,

35:19

what they did, what their bills, The

35:21

first one that they passed during the

35:23

pandemic brought up prices 20, lost 25%

35:25

of the U.S. dollar purchasing power when

35:27

that was passed. 25% of the purchasing

35:29

power of the U.S. dollar and it's

35:32

probably worsened real estate and groceries and

35:34

then the inflation reduction act which was

35:36

almost designed to spike inflation and bipartisanship

35:38

inflation. I can't begin to blame somebody

35:40

for inflation. It's been bipartisan for at

35:43

least 20, 24 years. My kids, I

35:45

talk in economics terms, I'm talking. who

35:47

I want to vote for. Like you

35:49

said, I don't think any election will

35:51

solve this. This is much deeper than

35:53

anything it imagined. So I just look

35:56

in economics terms for... So it makes

35:58

it a lot more clear or have

36:00

opinions based on the power, based on

36:02

the economics of the policies, especially the

36:04

unintended consequences of those policies. Yeah, now

36:07

that's an interesting point too is that

36:09

I start to wonder these days, after

36:11

everything I've seen unfold, after all of

36:13

the conspiracy theories that I was told

36:15

were conspiracy theories turned out to actually

36:17

just be the truth. I don't know

36:20

what to make of things these days.

36:22

I don't know what's the truth and

36:24

what's not the truth. The only thing

36:26

right now that I know is the

36:28

truth is the price of a particular

36:31

security or instrument at any moment in

36:33

time, at least if it's on an

36:35

honest exchange. If there's some liquidity and

36:37

you can get out, you can get

36:39

in any other individual is going to

36:41

do. You don't know what any politician

36:44

is going to do. You don't know

36:46

what any economist is going to say.

36:48

You don't know what any Fed official

36:50

is going to do. But the price

36:52

action is quite interesting. I made a

36:55

post on X this morning, and it

36:57

was quoting something from bar chart, but

36:59

essentially it was looking at mortgage rates

37:01

as going up over the next six

37:03

months. And I kind of mockingly said,

37:05

well, hold on. Didn't they just cut

37:08

race? Why are rates going up? And

37:10

like that's not a prediction from Mike

37:12

Cobell. That's just an observation of the

37:14

silliness of the system. It makes no

37:16

sense to people. They just can't understand

37:19

it. The Fed can lose control of

37:21

the yield curves. The stock market can

37:23

drop when they start cutting rates. And

37:25

the stock market can drop when they

37:27

start cutting rates. And they think that's

37:29

going to cause everything to go up.

37:32

It's going to be better. And then

37:34

the market plunges. Then they have all

37:36

the macro things point to a point

37:38

to a recession. When you cut rates

37:40

and the market has a recession, typically

37:43

historically about 20% drawdown that both those

37:45

things occur. You're making that observation, but

37:47

you're not telling any. Oh, that's the

37:49

trading signal. You're just observing what you're

37:51

seeing, and the system is something different.

37:53

Exactly. Yeah, I'm just pointing out, like,

37:56

what's happened in the past. Sometimes I'll

37:58

even say stuff like in my subscription

38:00

group and just say, we trade the

38:02

price action, because we trade the price

38:04

action, because we could have a really

38:07

good strong downturn here. So if we

38:09

get the signals, we'll take it. But

38:11

like you said, trade decisions, it's just

38:13

like talking economics or talking macro or

38:15

observing the economies or observing the economy.

38:18

It's not trading, it's not trading signals.

38:20

It's not trading signals. It's not trading

38:22

signals. It's not trading signals. I brought

38:24

up earlier the conversation of the movies,

38:26

media, film, about money and markets. And

38:28

I was thinking, what about music? I

38:31

guess Pink Floyd's Money is the first

38:33

one that comes to mind. There was

38:35

an ABA song about money too, but

38:37

it's not as interesting as the movies.

38:39

The movies are great. Yeah, Don Money's

38:42

a new one that really is a

38:44

good new trading movie, shows, the Game

38:46

Stop craziness. It was a documentary? No,

38:48

it was a movie. It was a

38:50

movie with big Hollywood movie and they

38:52

did really well. It was funny only

38:55

about how the Game Stop trades and

38:57

how everybody in the Game Stop moves

38:59

or trading it in the volatility. There's

39:01

people that got out and was rich

39:03

off the top or close to the

39:06

top in the reverse and those people

39:08

that gave it all back just held

39:10

Game Stop all the way up and

39:12

all the way back down. It was

39:14

fascinating. I have to check it out.

39:16

I've not seen it yet. One last

39:19

thing I wanted to bring it to

39:21

bring up, which is, which is kind

39:23

of And I love doing the podcast

39:25

for this reason. And in my seat,

39:27

it's harder to do when I'm in

39:30

Asia, but in my seat, where I've

39:32

been over the years, I've ended up

39:34

connecting a lot of people that were

39:36

not connected. And I'm sure you have

39:38

too, quite enjoyable thing because ultimately in

39:40

this world, and not just only treating,

39:43

that because of the technology, we've all

39:45

become more and more lone wolves, so

39:47

to speak. It is nice to... find

39:49

people, chat with people that have common

39:51

views. The whole crew of American guys

39:54

here in Hoichi Men City that we

39:56

all share similar beliefs. Let's just put

39:58

it this way. However, anyone

40:00

thinks that I have sounded on this

40:02

particular podcast in terms of politics, multiply

40:04

it by a million, and you'll never

40:06

hear that from me, because that's the real

40:08

stuff that's coming down the pike. Anyways,

40:10

I do love the fact that you

40:12

and I will catch up like every year,

40:15

and I love this, be able to

40:17

have conversations with interesting people that, you know,

40:19

look, you're consistent. You're always out there.

40:21

You are one of the most consistent

40:23

people, and you just love spreading the message

40:25

of what interests you. That's like a

40:27

flow of consciousness. The only thing I

40:29

was ever inspired today was investing, trading, and

40:32

social media. All the other stuff, other

40:34

people like, oh, let's write a book,

40:36

let's do an e-course, or whatever different things

40:38

that I've done. But it's always been

40:40

this most natural thing for me, for social

40:42

things that I've done. But it's always

40:44

been the most natural thing for me

40:46

for social media. It's almost like a game

40:49

that I've, it's most natural thing for

40:51

me, for me, for me, for me,

40:53

for me, most natural things that for me,

40:55

for me, for me, for me, for

40:57

me, for me, for me, most natural

40:59

things that I'm for me, for me, for

41:01

me, for me, for me, for me,

41:03

for social things that I'm for me, for

41:05

me, for me, for me, for social

41:07

things that I'm for me, for me,

41:09

for me, for social things that, for me,

41:12

for social things that, for me, for

41:14

me crazy how they just adapted. What's

41:16

really odd is I think you were actually

41:18

the original inspiration, what you did on

41:20

your personal Facebook page probably in 2012 or

41:22

2011 inspired me to go on to

41:24

social media and to share trading. Yeah

41:26

I got burned out on Facebook. One Zuckenberg

41:29

sets her to be during COVID. I

41:31

pretty much got tired of Facebook. I

41:33

don't know how you feel about this, but

41:35

I feel like and I've sent us

41:37

to other people and they kind of

41:39

look at me like I'm crazy. But I

41:41

think X is going to win and

41:43

it's going to win big. I don't know

41:46

what the timing is, but there are

41:48

too many smart people there. And eventually,

41:50

everyone else is going to say, you know

41:52

what, I need to be there because

41:54

that's where the human brain is, so

41:56

to speak. How do you feel about that?

41:58

I feel like X is going to

42:00

be the winner in the long run.

42:02

I don't know what the long run is

42:05

or when it will happen, but it

42:07

feels like X has this momentum. I've always

42:09

thought Twitter was the most powerful communication

42:11

tool ever created the history of civilization.

42:13

I've always thought that about the original Twitter,

42:15

but I think X is a multiplier,

42:17

but I guess right now, it has

42:19

to over... all the political battles and polarity

42:21

that's gone on with X. He could

42:23

overcome all the political madness and get

42:25

advertisers back monetized and then like you said

42:28

it just blow up. I don't know

42:30

what's holding them back, except for a shift

42:32

in the capital flows back into the

42:34

advertising side to fund it to grow

42:36

exponentially. But how do you bet it gets

42:38

Elon? Elon has never lost anything. You

42:40

know he's never lost. He's only the

42:42

only people ever to have multiple billion dollar

42:45

wins that are... Staggering. Even like Mark

42:47

Cuban and Mark Zuckerberg even say, billionaire

42:49

is just a one-time thing. You're in the

42:51

right place, right time, do the right

42:53

thing, you got lucky, you have the skills,

42:55

you navigate that you're lucky, you've got

42:57

to be a billionaire. And that's what

42:59

Cuban and Zuckerberg has to be a billionaire.

43:02

And that's what Cuban and Zuckerberg believe.

43:04

Well, Elon Musk has done it over

43:06

and over and over and over. It's hard

43:08

to even believe that you just named.

43:10

Apparently, older in life. still a billionaire, has

43:12

lost his marbles on X. I'm not

43:14

gonna name him. Anybody can figure it

43:16

out. I don't know what happened to him,

43:19

but he's gone sideways. It's not Zuckerberg.

43:21

Zuckerberg's got his own issues. So I'm

43:23

talking about somebody else. That's strange. Watch a

43:25

cognitive biases play out in real time

43:27

where somebody gets the wrong cognitive pathway

43:29

and then they double down, triple down and

43:31

just keep going in wrong direction. It's

43:33

pretty bad. Go crazy online and let you

43:35

watch it. I haven't done it yet,

43:37

but I've decided and I've got some

43:39

assistance that had pushed me on it. Sometime

43:42

here in the next couple months, I'm

43:44

going to get into regular video snippets,

43:46

regular shorts. I haven't wanted to do it

43:48

for a long time, and I've played

43:50

around with all kinds of equipment and

43:52

lights and this and that. And I finally

43:54

just said to myself, it's too complicated.

43:56

I just going to put the newest iPhone

43:59

in front of me and just talk,

44:01

let the other people... edit, whatever, get

44:03

it live. I just don't want to make

44:05

it complicated. You can go overboard with

44:07

equipment and I've... various stages have and

44:09

I just don't think it's needed. So that's

44:11

my upcoming plan. It's interesting. I just

44:13

launched into the shorts and one of

44:15

you call them reals and tic-toc media, the

44:18

short form, I just launched into that.

44:20

Same thing you thought, you know, I'll just

44:22

do short on my phone and my

44:24

face, I'll just talk, but I ended

44:26

up doing a little software thing where I

44:28

just have some of my best teachings

44:30

or. tweets or long form in videos

44:32

with software and it's done really really well.

44:35

It's been pretty stunning how well it's

44:37

done. It's always break all the rules or

44:39

people would say each platform has to

44:41

be the right native content for it

44:43

and I just put pictures of my tweets

44:45

on Instagram and hundreds of thousands of

44:47

followers and break all the rules. They

44:49

love the teaching. They love just a short

44:51

like a micro little trading thing. That

44:53

could be big. I've never really done

44:55

an in-depth discussion with you about it and

44:58

you probably only tell me so much.

45:00

that if they want to observe somebody who

45:02

definitely has a handle on social media

45:04

you do and you are not specific

45:06

to one app you've kind of got a

45:08

handle on a lot of these different

45:10

apps it's quite impressive that's an entirely

45:12

different skill set and whatnot that we haven't

45:15

talked about today but somebody's interested in

45:17

making observations like as one of my

45:19

assistants would say following in the footsteps basically

45:21

turtle thinking 101 You do a great

45:23

job of that. It's a lot of time,

45:25

I know that. It's a lot of

45:27

time, it's a lot of energy, unless

45:29

you've got some secret team in India of

45:32

30 guys working for you, I don't

45:34

know. You look pretty well rested. You

45:36

look at your sleeping well, so. Yes, it's

45:38

funny how I've done for so long

45:40

now. It's like a trading system. I

45:42

have a social media system that I follow

45:44

and I exponentially get more returns on

45:46

the cotton I create. and started a big

45:49

picture and then whittle down into like

45:51

create one thing big and then whittle

45:53

it down to different things and go across

45:55

it. And the speed that I can

45:57

do that is probably staggered. Probably take

45:59

some normal person, because I've done it so

46:01

long. Probably the normal person, creating the

46:03

content and sharing it all, doing what I

46:05

do, would probably take a normal human

46:07

being, if they could do it, take

46:09

10 hours a hour and a half after

46:12

very... most and I enjoy it too.

46:14

And the next thing I'm telling me

46:16

just messing around on social media but it's

46:18

a systematic process and doing so long

46:20

you get faster and faster. I don't

46:22

have to think I have a systematic process

46:24

just like by creating a short form

46:26

video I can put it on TikTok and

46:29

Instagram rails and Facebook short and YouTube

46:31

shorts. You're welcome to send people to

46:33

a place Steve but I think I've done

46:35

this with you before that even though

46:37

you've got such a Not basic, but

46:39

you've got a name that's not like I

46:41

mean I've got a funky last name

46:43

So it's very easy even if you

46:45

search for my last name you generally find

46:48

me if I search for the word

46:50

Burns I'm not just gonna find you however

46:52

if I search for Steve Burns I'm

46:54

gonna find you a filtering system that

46:56

if you're listening and you can't find my

46:58

guest today He probably doesn't want to

47:00

know you because if you can't find

47:02

Steve Burns on the internet There's something wrong

47:05

with you. Maybe there's just something wrong.

47:07

There's not enough IQ, brain damage, something.

47:09

So Steve, you're welcome to give a URL,

47:11

or we can just go with the,

47:13

if you can't find Steve Burns, you've got

47:15

a problem. If you Google Steve Burns,

47:17

just to Google Steve Burns, just to

47:19

jump over the blues clues Steve Burns, you've

47:21

got a problem. If you Google Steve

47:23

Burns Trader, you know, you can see

47:25

my website and Twitter, you can not to

47:28

find. me and all my resources. Hey

47:30

Steve, listen I appreciate it. We shall talk

47:32

again soon. Great talk as always. I

47:34

see a time when those awake will

47:36

understand how to make money up, down, and

47:38

surprise markets. Whether a new trader or

47:40

experienced, college student or financial advisor. protecting

47:42

against a crash or just trying to make

47:45

a lot of money. Trent filing offers

47:47

everyone an answer in uncertain times. To

47:49

get started immediately, send me an email. Michael

47:51

at CoVail .com. will I

47:53

will send you the

47:55

right trend following

47:57

steps to take take

47:59

with my free video. video.

48:02

But if But if

48:04

you want to buy

48:06

and hold, trust trust

48:08

the government and trust

48:10

Wall Street. Wall This

48:12

is absolutely not for

48:14

you. for you.