0:00

Welcome to Mick Unplugged,

0:02

where we ignite potential

0:04

and fuel purpose. Get

0:07

ready for raw insights,

0:09

bold moves, and game-changing

0:11

conversations. Buckle up. Here's

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Mick. Ladies and gentlemen,

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welcome to another exciting

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episode of Mick Unplugged

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and today. We have a brilliant

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one for you. We're talking about

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a groundbreaking trailblazer in the arena

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of work and technology and AI

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and just culture. A person I've

0:32

looked up to for a very long

0:34

time, a person I'm very honored to

0:37

call a friend. We're talking about the

0:39

one the only, the ground breaker,

0:41

the trailblazer, the visionary,

0:43

the guy that's going to lead work

0:45

future into the future. My man,

0:47

Mr. Josh, how you doing today,

0:49

brother. Make thanks for that intro

0:51

man. I always feel like you know

0:54

an MMA fighter coming out of the

0:56

tunnel when you give those intros It's

0:58

so powerful We're gonna get your favorite

1:01

hip-hop song a play under and that

1:03

can just be your intros you

1:05

move forward because I know Josh is

1:07

a hip-hop guy. Big heavy hitter here.

1:10

They go Josh man like you're someone

1:12

I've been following for a long time,

1:14

you know, we talked off off camera

1:16

Just on what you've meant to

1:18

me over the last few years, right?

1:21

Like someone I really follow that I

1:23

feel like we share a lot of

1:25

the same pillars and values when it

1:28

comes to leadership and culture.

1:30

My question, Josh, when did

1:32

that start for you? Like, when did

1:34

you know that that was going to

1:36

be the place that you could leave

1:38

your mark? Yeah, I appreciate that. And

1:40

I do feel like we share that

1:43

ethos, right? I think we both are in

1:45

this for... a lot of different reasons,

1:47

but one of the foundational reasons

1:49

is because we want people

1:52

to achieve their full potential, whatever

1:54

that looks like and feels like,

1:56

and it would be so disheartening

1:58

to go through your... entire life

2:00

and recognize that you only achieved

2:02

a small part of that full

2:04

potential. And so the reason we

2:06

put out content, the reason I'm active

2:08

on my socials and the reason why

2:10

I follow you is because it's interesting

2:12

to to see how many people, I

2:14

hate the word, sell out, but you

2:16

know, they, they kind of get stuck.

2:18

And so that was kind of

2:20

the big raison d'etre, if you

2:23

will, that I brought to a

2:25

young startup that I was building

2:27

out of the Harvard innovation labs.

2:29

We were essentially pioneering sentiment analysis

2:32

in real time, which is a

2:34

fancy way of saying, let's ask

2:36

employees what they need to achieve

2:38

their potential. Let's ask them what

2:40

they need to be satisfied at

2:42

work. is a productive employee holds

2:44

true no matter the economic circumstances.

2:46

And that's what really drove me

2:48

is this young startup, right? We

2:50

were so interested in helping employees

2:52

be better at work and we

2:54

started to recognize all of the

2:56

challenges that came along with that.

2:58

Some of them were motivational, right?

3:00

An individual might not be interested

3:02

in achieving their potential. They just want

3:04

to kind of coast and do their

3:07

work and that's your prerogative. There was

3:09

also a systemic problem that

3:11

a lot of companies weren't

3:13

established or set up structurally

3:15

to help employees unlock their

3:17

potential. They were set up

3:19

to drive shareholder value, which

3:22

is nice for shareholders, and

3:24

there wasn't a lot there

3:26

for employees to do more than

3:28

just going and collecting your paycheck,

3:30

doing your nine to five. learning the

3:32

skills that you need to do the

3:35

job that your company wants you to

3:37

do. And so I guess that kind

3:39

of kick-started me into this world of

3:41

work. We just published a book. It

3:44

is called Employment is Dead, how disruptive

3:46

technologies are revolutionizing the way we work.

3:48

And the entire theme is that the

3:50

traditional model of employment is not set up

3:53

to unlock the potential of employees. And

3:55

so we need to change the model

3:57

if we want to see a change

3:59

in individuals. deep, man. That was so deep.

4:01

And one of the things I know

4:03

was an overarching theme for what you

4:05

do was talking about thriving at

4:08

work, right? And I think that there are

4:10

a lot of things that I don't want

4:12

to say organizations do wrong because

4:14

I don't think things are always

4:16

intentional. I think it's just awareness

4:18

is sometimes not where it needs

4:21

to be. When you talk about

4:23

thriving at work and making that

4:25

essential theme of your message, How

4:27

does that help organizations? Like break down

4:30

thriving at work and what that

4:32

means to you and what organizations

4:34

can be doing? Yeah, so one word that you've

4:36

already mentioned is the culture, right?

4:38

What is it? What is the culture of

4:40

the organization? And you know, I've been doing

4:42

this long enough to know that there was

4:45

kind of this era in the 80s and

4:47

90s of motivational speakers getting up on stage

4:49

and saying you need to build a culture.

4:51

We have Stephen R. Covey, who's talking about...

4:54

your standards ideals and values. If you can

4:56

identify what the culture is, then you can

4:58

have a successful culture. And a lot

5:00

of companies jumped on board, they wrote

5:02

it all out, they put it up

5:04

in the break room, and they said,

5:06

this is what you need to do

5:08

to be successful. Just follow our model

5:11

for culture. And what we are seeing

5:13

now in the mid-2020s is that that's

5:15

not enough, that... Establishing or

5:17

defining the culture is yes a

5:19

very important part of it, but

5:22

what about the subculture? Like are

5:24

executives actually living the culture? Are

5:26

your employees feeling? the culture of

5:28

the organization or is there something else

5:30

going on there because we didn't actually

5:32

take the time to ask employees what

5:35

they wanted the culture to be? We

5:37

just declared a few executives high up

5:39

in the organization said this is what

5:41

the culture is going to be but

5:43

it's that culture adoption from your frontline

5:45

employees is what matters most. And the

5:47

reason why I'm talking about that is

5:49

because employees can't have the experience that

5:51

will unlock their potential unless they have

5:53

the environment and the tools that they

5:56

need to be successful. You're exactly right

5:58

man. I have this quote. And it

6:00

says, I have this for leaders. Leaders

6:03

don't lead businesses. They lead

6:05

their culture. And it's the culture

6:07

that actually leads the business. And

6:09

so I love the fact that

6:11

culture is a big thing, because

6:13

it is for me as well,

6:15

too. It's one of those things

6:18

that people talk and talk and

6:20

talk about. But to me, culture

6:22

is felt, right? Culture is seen.

6:24

And culture is a four-letter word.

6:26

C-A-R-E, right? If we have a

6:28

culture of care. Everything is

6:31

felt around that. I don't need a

6:33

fancy mission statement. I don't need a

6:35

vision statement that nobody on the team

6:37

knows other than the CEO and the

6:40

CEO doesn't have it memorized, right? Like

6:42

culture is something that you feel. Josh,

6:44

what's your take on that? It is.

6:47

And what is unfortunate is that

6:49

Companies will give lip service. I'm

6:51

not saying all companies. Most companies

6:53

will give lip service to what

6:55

we call employee experience design. They

6:58

will talk about culture. They will

7:00

get excited about the perks. They're

7:02

snacks in the break room. We have an

7:04

amazing culture. Let's do hot yoga.

7:06

It's an amazing culture. And what

7:08

they're really doing is like offering nice

7:10

perks, which might be above and beyond the

7:13

perks that you see in your contract, which

7:15

is how much I'm being paid. Here's the

7:17

hours I need to work. That is

7:19

not culture. That is nice perks

7:21

to keep your people happy. What

7:23

culture really is, is

7:26

understanding what people experience

7:28

working for you. And if

7:30

there are any pain points

7:32

or obstacles working to remove

7:34

them. And unfortunately, there are

7:36

certain pain points that we

7:39

can't overcome and companies... Well,

7:41

we can if we're thinking about

7:43

the long-term goals, however, a lot of

7:45

times we just look at the short-term

7:47

shareholder value. What can we do this

7:49

quarter to push revenue forward? We don't

7:52

have time for your touch, you feel like...

7:54

Leave your emotions at home is typically how

7:56

it used to be, right? Whereas, now

7:58

it's like, bring the whole person... person

8:00

to work, especially Gen Z. Gen

8:02

Z is bringing their whole selves

8:04

to work and they are pushing

8:07

back on this narrative of work

8:09

is contractual. It's a contract. Just

8:11

come and do the work and be

8:13

done with it and have work life

8:15

balance. They're like, no, I want to

8:17

know why I'm doing this work. I

8:19

want to know why you aren't able

8:21

to help me in these certain ways.

8:23

And so you go so much deeper,

8:26

Mick, Mick, which hopefully we can have

8:28

back a little bit here. 76% of

8:30

workers care more about purpose than

8:32

they do anything else. They

8:34

want their not their work

8:36

to be valued, them as

8:38

an individual to be valued and

8:41

the things that they do

8:43

to deliver purpose. And I

8:45

thought that that was so

8:47

impactful because again, I've been

8:49

saying for years, it's not

8:51

about motivation anymore, right? The

8:53

boomer error, right? The Gen

8:55

Yer like it was all

8:57

about. the paycheck, the benefits, the

8:59

retirement that comes with it, right?

9:01

Well now, my kids, right, they're

9:04

like, yeah dad, if I want to make

9:06

a million dollars, I can go

9:08

get the side hustle over here

9:10

and do that. Like they're not

9:12

thinking about a pension, a 401k,

9:14

because it's a different valuation for

9:16

them. And so I think

9:18

the shift needs to go

9:20

from motivation to inspiration. Motivation

9:23

is what gets that employee to sign

9:25

that contract to work with you.

9:27

Inspiration is what brings them back

9:29

tomorrow. Because if Josh isn't inspired to

9:32

come back, Josh can go start his

9:34

own business. And I tell leaders

9:36

all the time, that is what

9:38

you're competing against, right? Like you're

9:40

not competing against Pepsi or Nike

9:42

or AT&T or Amazon. Like you're

9:44

competing with that person who realistically

9:47

for their purpose could just go start their

9:49

own business doing something that they love. And

9:51

so you need to tie that. into what

9:54

they're doing in that 9 to 5 or

9:56

9 to 9, whatever it is. So again,

9:58

I love your feedback on. that as

10:00

well. Yeah, my goodness there's so much

10:02

to impact. You're absolutely

10:04

right and when you really laser

10:07

in on that purpose you start to

10:09

see You ask the right questions, right?

10:11

Like, well, why do employees not feel

10:13

purpose at work? Well, they aren't doing

10:15

what they love. Can't we as an

10:17

organization allow them to do what they

10:19

love and still get the work done?

10:21

Or do we just need them to

10:23

be a cog in the machine to

10:25

do the work? And you mentioned the

10:27

benefits of a traditional employment model, which

10:29

is security. I have a 401k. I

10:31

can retire comfortably. I have a nice

10:33

house. A lot of these perks. Or

10:35

I wouldn't even call them perks. These

10:38

are just like essentials to live.

10:40

Right. Like not even available anymore,

10:42

you know, like. This younger generation

10:44

is seeing their parents unable

10:46

to retire. They are working well beyond

10:49

65, 67. In the 70s, they can't

10:51

retire. They are seeing what's happening with

10:53

Social Security. Like there, a lot of

10:55

these assurances are not assurances anymore. And

10:57

so they are pushing back on the

11:00

narrative of like, oh yeah, I'll just

11:02

come and sit in my seat and

11:04

I'll work and I'll have that purpose.

11:06

It's a structural issue. I love the

11:08

way that you just framed it, right?

11:10

The way that I like to say it

11:13

is, when the great resignation 2.0 happens, when

11:15

the employer market swings back to an

11:17

employee market and employees have options

11:19

again, they're not just going to

11:21

jump from job to job. They're

11:23

going to jump to more attractive

11:26

alternatives for work. And when that

11:28

happens, and they can probably find

11:30

the security that they want and

11:32

they need over there, what does

11:34

that mean for corporations who are

11:36

like, culture, let's go? What they're

11:38

going to find is like, oh,

11:41

there's actually more than employees want

11:43

need out of this relationship than

11:45

a contract. That's it. That's it. So

11:47

Josh, I know, you know, you don't like

11:49

bragging. You're not going to talk

11:51

about all the amazing things that

11:54

you have done. So this is

11:56

where I, the words of me and

11:58

me only get to brag of about

12:00

my friend. The Work Three Institute

12:02

might be the greatest thing that

12:04

I have ever seen, heard about,

12:07

been a part of. For those that

12:09

don't know about the Work Three

12:11

Institute, one, let's break down what

12:13

it is. Let's break down

12:16

how it's helping individuals and companies.

12:18

And then, Josh, like, what was

12:20

the brainchild around that? I know

12:22

I just gave me three and

12:25

I never do that, but three

12:27

is our favorite number, right? The

12:29

Work Three Institute is a play

12:31

on web three. Web three is supposed to be

12:34

the next iteration of the internet.

12:36

How are we moving beyond just

12:38

looking at our screens to be

12:40

within interactive worlds? What do our relationships

12:42

look like in what we used to

12:44

call the metaverse, which is still moving

12:46

forward, by the way, if anyone's curious.

12:49

So the Work Three Institute, we

12:51

essentially help companies marry emerging technologies

12:53

with workforce strategies. If you are

12:55

a digital first, human-human-centric, leader who

12:57

says I value my people I'm

12:59

not trying to get rid of

13:01

them for AI I value my

13:03

people and I want them to

13:05

use AI to become better we say

13:07

well here's how you do it And so

13:09

what we've seen is that there

13:12

are a lot of younger hungry

13:14

executives who are like jumping into

13:16

these new work models with both

13:18

feet. And we provide the roadmap.

13:21

That's part of our book. Deborah

13:23

Perry Poshoni and I have published.

13:25

It's the last chapter where we

13:27

provide a 13-step roadmap on how

13:30

do you even do it? Like

13:32

is it buying VR headsets for

13:34

all of your employees? Is it...

13:36

going to a virtual office, which, you

13:39

know, that trend has kind of died off.

13:41

And I would say it's not that on

13:43

the surface. No, like none of that. Really

13:45

what we're saying is there are

13:47

10 operating principles of the

13:49

Work Three Institute. These are

13:52

the non-negotiables of the modern

13:54

workforce. And I talk to HR leaders all

13:56

over the world and I say, can you

13:58

offer any of your employees? These, and

14:00

if they say no, my simple

14:02

question is, why should they work

14:05

for you then? Just to name

14:07

a couple, transparency. Employees expect transparency

14:09

from their company. They don't want

14:12

you to lie to them. They don't want

14:14

you to make up a story, to

14:16

rebrand their experience. This is what

14:18

their experience feels like. They want

14:20

to know why if you are

14:23

transparent and honest with them. Trust

14:25

comes back into the relationship. They

14:27

want autonomy to make decisions.

14:29

Right now, they can't make decisions

14:31

because a manager micromanages them or

14:33

they have to do things a

14:35

very specific way, which doesn't really

14:38

feel right based on what we

14:40

are seeing on the front line. So

14:42

we need to give them autonomy to

14:44

make real-time decisions based on their

14:46

own knowledge. And then ownership. Give

14:48

them ownership in the work that

14:50

they're doing. This isn't an ESOP,

14:52

which is giving them arbitrary equity

14:55

in the company. its contribution-based compensation,

14:57

a stake in the value they

14:59

generate for the company. So we

15:01

don't have to go off on

15:03

those, but essentially it's, look, the

15:05

modern workforce has these expectations. They're

15:07

not just going to work for a paycheck. They

15:09

want to be cut in on the deal. They

15:11

want a relationship with you that is to a

15:13

communication, not just you telling you what to do.

15:16

And if you can't give it to

15:18

them, again, they're probably going to bounce

15:20

to a doubt or decentralized autonomous organization.

15:22

Absolutely. What type of results

15:24

are you seeing within the Institute

15:27

now? Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting because

15:29

a lot of these technologies

15:31

still have to prove themselves,

15:33

right? A lot of people are waiting on

15:35

the wing for Web 3 to see any

15:38

use cases. There are some, you know,

15:40

late adopters to AI who are like,

15:42

we're going to see how other companies

15:44

are using AI and then jump in.

15:46

So again, like, they have to prove

15:48

themselves. The case studies are there. It's

15:51

hard to see, but what we're seeing

15:53

is what has been said a

15:55

lot, which is a very

15:57

nuanced approach, people-centric, focusing in.

15:59

on your people, that's what's going

16:02

to make high performing teams. All

16:04

day. And one of the things I love about

16:06

you, Josh, and you say this a lot,

16:08

and shameless plug for Josh's YouTube

16:10

channel, by the way, because I

16:12

heard you say this probably 30

16:14

times their AI plus humanity

16:17

equals the perfect workplace

16:19

solution, right? And I took liberties

16:21

on saying that, but that's kind

16:23

of how I grabbed that. How

16:26

can organizations and companies want not

16:28

be afraid of AI? Two, not look at

16:30

AI as a true replacement of

16:33

humans and humanity, and making

16:35

it work, because to me, that's where

16:37

you get the dynamic true workforce.

16:39

Like, if me as a company, if

16:41

we embrace AI, and we're using

16:43

it for the betterment of what we

16:46

do to make humans better, to

16:48

have true human interaction, like that's

16:50

a huge win across the board.

16:52

So for Josh, man, and the

16:55

things that you're teaching. Talk to

16:57

us a little bit about AI

16:59

and humanity together. Yeah,

17:01

I mean, it's interesting.

17:04

There's two camps. This

17:06

is an oversimplification, but there

17:08

are companies who recognize that your

17:10

workforce is expensive. You spend the

17:13

most money on your people. And

17:15

so if we can reduce the

17:17

workforce using AI, we save money.

17:19

That to me is a very

17:22

closed universe. kind of negative perspective

17:24

and then there are companies who

17:26

say we could use AI to

17:28

supercharge our efforts we can 10x

17:31

and 50x and 100x are outcomes

17:33

if we can train our people

17:35

to use AI if we can

17:37

leverage this in a way that is

17:40

still mutually beneficial and I am very

17:42

much in that camp I think that

17:44

you know we're gonna see companies probably

17:46

go fully automated and I mean to

17:49

me it just kind of you look

17:51

at the foundation of what a business

17:53

is designed for is to drive

17:56

value for people and there

17:58

are businesses that can. be

18:00

automated fully and it's coming so

18:02

we need to be aware of that

18:04

but I think the companies that

18:06

are going to win are the ones

18:09

that say hey let's help you learn

18:11

AI let's implement it into our ethos

18:13

let's how can we achieve our purpose

18:16

with AI and they move in that

18:18

direction we're gonna see much greater returns

18:20

no I totally agree you know even

18:23

for my teams you know I've

18:25

run three different companies and we

18:27

look at all right What are some things

18:29

that AI can actually do that are

18:31

part of your job function, right? To

18:33

make you thrive at work, to make

18:36

work happier for you, and not just

18:38

AI, but also technology, right? Because all

18:40

of a sudden in the last two

18:43

years, Josh, like everything technology has been

18:45

lumped into AI, and like that's also

18:47

just not the case, too, right? Machine

18:50

learning and AI are not the same

18:52

thing, all are important to technology. So

18:54

we look at how can we utilize

18:56

technology, how can we utilize technology? to

18:59

maybe take a job function that was

19:01

repetitive that you no longer have to

19:03

do so that now you can

19:05

be that dynamic human who can

19:07

talk to customers who can close

19:10

deals who can do different facets

19:12

that you don't have to be

19:14

transactionalist anymore. So we do a

19:16

lot internally with letting technology. handle

19:18

some of the transactional things that

19:20

usually keep your employees up at

19:22

night because it's like oh I've

19:24

got this thing and I forgot

19:26

to do this thing and if

19:28

I didn't do this thing then

19:30

something might be broken. Well technology can

19:32

handle that and now this human can

19:35

be the leader that they are because

19:37

I don't care about titles. Most of the

19:39

people on your team are leaders in

19:41

their household, their leaders in their community,

19:43

they know how to decision make. Now I have

19:46

a team of pure leaders that can now help

19:48

me. grow the business, change the business,

19:50

adapt the business. Like the

19:52

things that as leaders we

19:54

really want, I let AI,

19:56

or I let technology handle

19:58

that mundane. stuff so that

20:01

my team can really focus on

20:03

being leaders. I love that, that

20:05

is 100% the right direction. And

20:07

just listening to you talk about

20:10

that, I was like, wow, it

20:12

really has the right vision here

20:14

of what it can be and

20:16

what it should be. You know,

20:18

that it's, when I look at

20:20

growing businesses in the future,

20:22

I think about what we

20:24

as humans value. And you

20:26

know, there are... The one presenters if

20:29

you will who value money and

20:31

value power and value Sending rockets

20:33

to the moon like and humanity

20:36

needs that to a degree What

20:38

does it have to be just

20:40

a few people? Can't we all go?

20:42

Can't we all work on this

20:44

project together? Right And that's, you know,

20:46

I think the veil is coming off a

20:49

little bit. I mean, I spend a lot

20:51

of time on TikTok and I see the

20:53

younger generation not really putting up with,

20:55

you know, poor behavior because they know

20:57

how exploited they have been, how exploited

21:00

they are. And so there are

21:02

some interesting things coming here, but I

21:04

feel like when you're, when you are

21:06

rooted in kind of that human-centric

21:08

purpose, that's when you start to

21:11

see success. I love it man. I

21:13

love it. So in your work and

21:15

your findings, what are some things that

21:17

organizations are getting wrong

21:19

that they should be getting right? You

21:21

know, we hit on culture. What are

21:23

some other things that you're seeing

21:26

organizations have big misses on? Well,

21:28

I mentioned this earlier about the

21:30

employer market. Right now we are

21:33

squarely in an employer market. What

21:35

that means is that the boss has

21:37

all of the control. That wasn't the

21:39

case during the great resignation when employees

21:42

had a lot of different job options

21:44

They were negotiating for higher salaries. They

21:46

were jumping from job to job and

21:49

getting promotions There was a lot happening

21:51

there for employees and when that's the

21:53

case We spent a lot of time

21:55

doing employee experience design, which is well, how

21:57

do we attract top talent? How do we

21:59

win top? away from our competitors. It's

22:01

because we either spend more, we are

22:03

competitively priced, or we have these cool

22:06

perks, or a huge differentiator is like,

22:08

we might not pay you as much,

22:10

but the work that we're doing at

22:13

our company matters. And it feels right.

22:15

And what I'm noticing is that in

22:17

an employer market, you kind of see

22:20

the wall fall down and like there

22:22

are several companies that don't care about

22:24

that anymore. They are just like, oh,

22:26

we've got the power. So let's pay

22:29

our people less. Let's. do mass layoffs.

22:31

Let's get rid of coffee in the

22:33

break room because it's expensive. And so

22:36

they're doing all of these like short

22:38

term cost cutting plays. And that's what

22:40

we're doing wrong. Mick, we are taking

22:43

away the experience when we should be

22:45

even an employer's market ramping up that

22:47

experience because what happens when great resignation

22:49

2.0 comes around. And I will say

22:52

one last thing about that. Gallup just

22:54

posted the worst numbers on respect that

22:56

we've seen since they've started tracking those

22:59

numbers. only 37% of workers feel respected,

23:01

which I was told that that is

23:03

just table steaks. That is the baseline.

23:06

Everyone deserves respect at work, and yet

23:08

only 37% of people feel respected. That's

23:10

much less than half. So what are

23:12

we doing wrong here? So I'm going

23:15

to ask you, Josh, why do we

23:17

think that is? Like, what's the driving

23:19

factor behind that, in your opinion? I

23:22

mean if I were to point it

23:24

back to the book I would say

23:26

the system is broken employment is dead

23:29

we are running on an antiquated model

23:31

for work that sure it worked great

23:33

during the Industrial Revolution where you had

23:36

to push a button all day every

23:38

day and efficiency came from tracking how

23:40

many times you can press that button.

23:42

We live in the age of information,

23:45

the age of AI, we need to

23:47

move with much more agility and speed.

23:49

The only way we can do that

23:52

is if we evolve the model. And

23:54

so I personally believe that that model

23:56

comes from a decentralized version of work.

23:59

And what that means is that we

24:01

as leaders imbue power into our employees,

24:03

that we give them decision-making power and

24:05

collaboration power, and we don't silo them

24:08

so much. We don't try to control

24:10

them so much. When you embrace kind

24:12

of that open and transparent work model,

24:15

that's when you unlock the true potential

24:17

of your people. Jim have said it

24:19

better, man, cannot have said it better.

24:22

So Josh, I would be remiss if

24:24

I didn't talk to you or ask

24:26

you about... the book that you co-authored,

24:28

taught us a little bit about that

24:31

project, and then I'd love to talk

24:33

about what you have coming up next.

24:35

So let's go to the book, man.

24:38

It's really interesting. Deborah and I met

24:40

a few years ago. Deborah is a

24:42

best-selling author. This is her sixth book,

24:45

and I was web advisor at the

24:47

Harvard Innovation Labs at the time, so

24:49

I was really interested in these young

24:51

startups who were interested in pushing the

24:54

ball forward through web three and some

24:56

of these emerging technologies. started applying to

24:58

speak at certain conferences and she was

25:01

running one of those conferences. She saw

25:03

my application and called me and said,

25:05

hey, this is a book, should we

25:08

write it together? And what started off

25:10

as kind of a, let's see what

25:12

happens, turned into selling our project to

25:14

Harvard Business Review and you know, the

25:17

book just published a couple weeks ago,

25:19

which we're really excited about. Honestly, the

25:21

title itself, we put it on there

25:24

thinking like, this is what we want

25:26

to say, but I doubt HBRs going

25:28

to keep it. As HBR is, you

25:31

know, the high level executives who run

25:33

on an employment model and that's how

25:35

it's always been, there's no way they're

25:37

going to keep it, but they did.

25:40

Which just goes to show the stickiness

25:42

of the idea. And I want to

25:44

clarify that. We're not saying employment is

25:47

dead because AI is taking your jobs.

25:49

You are unemployed. That's not it at

25:51

all. What we are saying is that

25:54

these traditional work models are failing to

25:56

adapt to the modern needs of the

25:58

workforce and... that emerging technologies are going

26:00

to bring previously hadn't seen? I can't

26:03

wait to dive into it man like

26:05

I can't wait for my autograph copy.

26:07

Right. But no I mean from again

26:10

just following you forever and knowing the

26:12

human that you are dude I can't

26:14

wait to break that open and just

26:17

like take copious notes of just everything

26:19

that you have because you are in

26:21

my mind you are the source. of

26:24

modern employee engagement. You're the source of

26:26

modern culture and that's why, again, I've

26:28

been a huge fan of yours for

26:30

years, brother. Hey, I will trade you

26:33

a signed copy of our book for

26:35

a signed, make-unplugged podcast polo. Those things

26:37

are fresh. Consider that done. Consider that

26:40

done. I'll make sure we get that

26:42

for you for sure. So, Josh, what

26:44

else do you have coming up, man?

26:47

Like, what's on the horizon for the

26:49

rest of 2025 for Josh D. Yeah,

26:51

again, just kind of goes back to

26:53

our purpose, right? I'm very passionate about

26:56

helping companies evolve into a work-3 model.

26:58

I'm gonna keep my head down on

27:00

that. I spend so much time, you

27:03

know, building content as well, coaching and

27:05

YouTube and TikTok, so I'm hoping to

27:07

continue to drive value there where it

27:10

is. We're gonna do a collab real,

27:12

which I'm excited about, so yeah, just

27:14

keeping the engine hot. I love it,

27:16

dude. I absolutely love it. So where

27:19

can people follow and find you? I'll

27:21

make sure, obviously they're gonna have it

27:23

in the show notes. If you follow

27:26

me, then trust me, you've seen me,

27:28

like, reshare a lot of Josh's stuff

27:30

because he's one of my favorite follows

27:33

out there in the space that we

27:35

collide in. That's all of my animals.

27:37

That's my LinkedIn, my TikTok. I make

27:39

it so easy. Just Google, Josh Drain,

27:42

you'll find me there. I'd love to

27:44

connect. And yeah, just send me a

27:46

quick message. I am a millennial at

27:49

heart. So if you send a DM,

27:51

I will answer it immediately. I think

27:53

that's the best way to connect. So

27:56

what Josh is saying is don't email

27:58

him and don't call him. be

28:00

in his his diems. There you go. I will not

28:02

be you go. to any not be

28:04

listening to any not be I will

28:06

not be answering any phone calls. even

28:08

even There you go. There you go.

28:10

There you go. I am so Josh, honored to

28:13

have I am so honored to

28:15

have you on. It was just some

28:17

time and drop you to take some

28:19

time and drop wisdom to the

28:21

listeners and you more So thank you

28:23

more than you know, man. And you

28:25

you want to be back on,

28:27

on, I I got you Appreciate that, Mick.

28:29

Mick. Thanks for all you do. you

28:31

do. You got in all the listeners and

28:33

viewers. Remember, viewers. your superpower. Go

28:35

unleash it. superpower. Go unleash it. Thank you for tuning in

28:37

to make you for tuning in to

28:39

Mick pushing Keep pushing your limits,

28:41

embracing your purpose, and chasing greatness. Until

28:44

next time, stay unstoppable.