0:00

Love you special. Love

0:03

you special. No, no, you don't go,

0:05

mm-hmm, you go, thank you. Oh, well,

0:08

thank you. I'm

0:11

gonna have to coach you through a lot of this though. Love

0:14

you special. That

0:20

is the voice of the great Neil Brennan. We are

0:22

thrilled to have Neil back on the podcast. We had

0:24

him back in 2021, but

0:27

this is the first time he was

0:30

in the studio, which means in addition

0:32

to listening to it here, you could

0:34

watch it on YouTube. Neil is one

0:36

of my favorite comedy people. In addition

0:38

to being a standup comedian, he is

0:40

a co-creator and co-writer of the classic

0:43

Chappelle show. Half Baked, which

0:45

we talk about on the show today.

0:47

He has a new Netflix special called

0:49

Crazy Good. It is an excellent

0:51

comedy special. I actually, I

0:53

could not recommend it more highly. I

0:56

love talking to Neil. Thanks to everyone

0:58

who's coming out to my shows on the Please Stop

1:00

the Ride Tour at the end of this month. I

1:03

will be at the wonderful Bastery Theater.

1:06

It's, I think it's pretty much sold out, but

1:09

go on verbigs.com. I think there's one

1:11

more show with a few tickets remaining.

1:14

I continue on to Red Bank, New

1:16

Jersey in September at the Count Basie

1:18

Theater for the Arts, September 13

1:20

and 14. I love that

1:22

theater. It is a gorgeous theater.

1:25

I have played it many times. I

1:27

actually popped in on one of Mulaney's

1:30

shows one time there and it's just

1:32

like, it's a classic historic theater. Then

1:34

I will be in Seattle and Portland.

1:36

We just had a third and final

1:39

show in Portland, Oregon. I'll be in

1:41

San Francisco, limited tickets left for September

1:43

27th. And then Oakland

1:45

at the Fox for the first time,

1:48

Philadelphia at the Music Hall for

1:50

the first time, Minneapolis, Madison,

1:53

Milwaukee, Champaign, Illinois, Indianapolis, Ann

1:55

Arbor, Detroit at the Fillmore,

1:58

which I love. I'll

2:00

be in Dayton, which is a town I love. My

2:02

sister Gina went to college there. I'll

2:04

be in Pittsburgh at the Biem. I'll

2:06

be in Louisville, Nashville at the Ryman,

2:09

which is just... I

2:11

was there with the old man in the pool

2:13

and man. One of the prettiest theaters in the

2:15

whole darn world. I'll be in

2:17

Knoxville at the Tennessee Theater for the first

2:19

time. I'll be in Asheville, Charleston, South Carolina,

2:21

rounding out the year. And then we're going

2:24

to add some cities in early 2025. Be

2:28

the first to know about those shows by

2:30

signing up for the mailing list. I love

2:32

this conversation with Neal Brennan today. We talk

2:34

about how his comedy has become so closely

2:36

tied to honesty and mental health and

2:39

depression and how this new

2:41

special is less about that and sort

2:43

of what the response

2:45

has been. It's kind

2:47

of a fascinating conversation about what

2:49

are audiences expectations versus what you're

2:52

bringing. He of course did

2:54

two specials, three mics as well as

2:56

blocks, which is also a podcast where

2:58

he talks a lot about mental health.

3:01

And in this special, it's just

3:03

jokes, just hilarious, hilarious jokes. And

3:06

we just talk about the difference between those two things and

3:09

how he's become happy. He's become a happy person.

3:11

We also talk about the real story of how

3:13

Half Baked, the movie came to be, which

3:16

he co-wrote. We talk about audience feedback. I

3:19

just think this is one of my favorites in a while. Enjoy

3:22

my conversation with the great Neal Brennan.

3:32

You start by saying, if you're

3:34

here because you're depressed and you want

3:37

to hear depression stuff, I'm happy now,

3:40

which I like because it has that

3:42

kind of let's pick it

3:44

up where we left off kind of thing.

3:47

And it acknowledges to the audience, like a

3:49

real thing. Your other specials were a lot

3:51

about depression, blocks and three

3:53

mics. And how did

3:56

you arrive at that, telling

3:58

people that, and also how did you get happy? The

4:01

first one is a very

4:03

simple answer. First of all, good to

4:05

see you. I've

4:08

smothered you with compliments so then you look like the

4:11

asshole. I

4:15

did a show in DC at

4:17

the Kennedy Center. Somebody

4:20

DMs me afterward, a guy, and

4:25

said I spent 150 bucks

4:27

on those tickets, got front

4:29

row, it's my birthday. I

4:31

kept waiting for you to show up. Oh

4:34

gosh. Because

4:38

I never mentioned depression. So

4:40

then I put that in. Because

4:42

I was like, oh, they want Morrissey

4:45

to be sad. Whatever, not

4:47

like I'm Morris, but you know what I mean? I

4:49

have like, part of my

4:52

brand is dealing with mental health

4:54

stuff. So I said

4:57

it and I will say that it

4:59

made the show better and clearer

5:02

because you weren't waiting for it after

5:04

that. But I put it in

5:06

when the guy directly said that. Yeah,

5:10

sometimes feedback is helpful. Yeah, it's

5:12

not even, he didn't say put

5:15

a disclaimer on at the

5:17

beginning. The thing with any

5:19

note or whatever, it's just like, tell me where

5:21

it hurts and I'll tell you, and I'll try

5:23

to think of a solution for the pain. I

5:25

won't go, don't web MD it,

5:28

and then tell me how to fix the show, which he

5:30

didn't. He just said, I was disappointed

5:33

that I, the you I've come

5:35

to expect wasn't there.

5:37

So funny, because you called me when that had a

5:39

Kennedy show, Kennedy Center show happened and you were like,

5:41

hey, I have this thing, I don't quite know what

5:44

to do about it. Yeah, I was gonna say it

5:46

and we talked. People are sort of waiting for me

5:48

to be depressed and like, I'm not depressed. But

5:51

like, how did you arrive at being

5:53

happy? I mean, you've talked a lot

5:56

about different, the magnet street, and talk

5:59

therapy and all kinds of. different things,

6:01

ayahuasca I think. Yeah, DMT, DMT,

6:03

ayahuasca and MDMA get the first

6:06

three special thanks. Oh my God.

6:09

Because they did it, they did

6:11

the work. What

6:14

is happening when you use that stuff?

6:17

Because I haven't tried it. It's like

6:19

a longer, it's sort

6:22

of boring. But

6:25

in my case, it got me off

6:28

antidepressants and took

6:30

me from atheism to a belief

6:32

in a central creation force.

6:34

Wow. So pretty big for 300 bucks.

6:39

And so that's what it did, that's

6:45

what I was aware of. But then you sold that

6:48

to someone else for 300, right? Yeah,

6:50

yeah, yeah. So it was

6:52

what, I flipped it, I watered it

6:54

down, flipped it. You

6:56

sold it for 800? That

6:58

person sold it for 11 hundred. And I

7:01

have an album coming out. You

7:04

are a perpetually funny person.

7:07

You got out of your

7:09

car outside just now and

7:11

you go, you

7:13

made a joke about that. I'm wearing a giant backpack

7:15

because I'm going to the airport. Yeah, and you made

7:17

a joke, you go, it

7:20

was either be completely embarrassed

7:23

or wear this backpack. No, it

7:25

was either have dignity or

7:28

put on a backpack and I

7:30

chose back. You

7:32

are a perpetual joke machine.

7:36

Like even just knowing you, talking to me

7:39

on the phone with some regularity, here's

7:43

what I'll say that's good about that because

7:45

there's a lot of things that are bad about that. None

7:47

that I'm aware of, go ahead. Well

7:50

that your brain doesn't stop. Like

7:52

that your brain just creates punchlines out of things all

7:54

the time. I also don't think that I'm escaping

7:57

from reality. I don't think I'm one of

7:59

these common. I'm not a

8:01

pushy sweaty comic where I'm like

8:03

just constantly doing bits and like,

8:05

Hey, can I go over this

8:07

thing with you? Like, well, we

8:09

have, if anything, it's the opposite.

8:12

People are like, okay, with the

8:14

earnestness. I did

8:16

Chelsea Handler's podcast yesterday and she was

8:18

like, all right, with the gravity.

8:23

Earnest found God, got rid of,

8:26

overcame my depression and stuff. Yeah, enough

8:28

with the heartwarming. I could see her

8:30

saying that. I mean, she's

8:33

doing her version of it. She's doing her thing. Yeah,

8:36

but like you're a fountain

8:38

of jokes, but what's good is you're

8:41

happy and you're still a fountain

8:43

of jokes, which just proves the theory. You

8:46

have to be depressed to be funny, right? Disprove,

8:48

yeah. Or disproves the theory. Yeah, it

8:51

disproves the theory. Yeah, I never thought

8:53

that was a real

8:55

thing. I never, the first time I

8:57

did Iwanska with

8:59

my friend Bajan, he goes, are we

9:01

gonna be able to be capitalists after this? Sure,

9:04

yeah. And you worry that like

9:06

you'll be broken irrevocably. There's

9:09

a book called The Shallows about

9:11

the internet and my takeaway was

9:13

the line, you

9:17

are what you do repeatedly. So

9:21

if you're checking Instagram, you'll get in

9:23

the Instagram, like

9:25

the algorithm, you become the algorithm, et

9:27

cetera. If you

9:29

spent 30 years writing jokes, it's

9:33

like passive, it's like passively gonna do it

9:36

and you don't have to, I

9:38

don't have to be like, okay,

9:40

it's just gonna do it in the background. It's

9:42

like having a background app open all the time

9:45

that I'm not mad at.

9:49

Then I just decide whether to say the joke or

9:51

not. Right, you're just saying whether to say

9:53

the joke. Yeah, I always find that

9:55

people are confused by me socially

9:58

because I'm not saying jokes. I have jokes

10:00

all the time. Yeah. And I have, sometimes

10:02

people ask me about that point blank and

10:04

I'm like, I have to be like, you

10:06

don't understand. Like if I said the jokes

10:08

that I say on stage in life, it

10:11

wouldn't land. Like it would just

10:13

sit there. It's a, I

10:16

think Dave said it's a language, comedy

10:19

is a language that he speaks fluently.

10:22

And it is like, it's

10:24

not really funny side note.

10:28

There was a, the version of what you're saying, somebody

10:31

was on a date at the comedy

10:33

store with a woman and

10:35

me and Fahim Anwar and Ian

10:38

Edwards were talking to

10:41

the guy who was on the date with the woman. And

10:43

then afterward, Ian or Fahim or

10:46

both of them goes, she was

10:48

working out bits. The

10:51

girl was doing bits with us. We know, I

10:53

know what a bit sounds like. It's

10:56

not, it's not

10:58

connective. It's not communicative. It's like

11:00

its own thing. It's like

11:02

reading a quote

11:05

from Voltaire in mid conversation. It's

11:08

like, why, what are you doing? What

11:11

are you doing? Yeah, so that's why,

11:13

whatever, I'll do a bit. If it's

11:15

like the, we know

11:17

when to like, all right, this could use

11:19

a bit. Yeah. This social

11:21

interaction could stand to a little bit,

11:24

just a little something. I'll give them a little pixie

11:26

dust. It's interesting, like

11:28

you interviewed Seinfeld

11:30

today for

11:34

your podcast blocks, which I love. I mean,

11:36

talk about, I listened to this day, interviewed

11:39

Seinfeld and then had lunch with Ari

11:42

Melber. If that's not Passover, I

11:44

don't know what is. Where

11:48

are my Jews at? You

11:50

doing crowd work on a podcast? In the camera, where am

11:52

I doing that? Raise your hand. Yes,

11:57

I had, I, yeah, no, without ever seeing

11:59

that. many,

14:01

many brilliant people in history are psychopaths or drug

14:03

addicts. And you go

14:05

through a whole ton of people

14:07

and then you get to Malaney

14:09

and he told me to tell

14:11

you. John Malaney told me to

14:13

remind you he's a drug addict,

14:15

which has actually happened. Literally? Literally.

14:17

You're not just referencing the special.

14:20

No, no, no, no. I was telling Malaney the

14:22

bit I was doing. And he goes,

14:24

you mentioned me. And

14:27

I go, I could. And he goes, yeah,

14:30

go ahead. And then it

14:32

crushed and I sent it to him. I don't

14:34

even really know why it crushes so hard. Yeah.

14:37

You name check a bunch

14:39

of people like in your special, Ellen,

14:43

Malaney, Chappelle.

14:45

You. Rogan. Rogan.

14:48

Gilbert. You check with them. And

14:50

Kevin Hart. You check with them? Yep. All

14:52

of them? All of them all. Yeah. Yeah.

14:57

Well, Dave, I

14:59

was calling the day of the show because I

15:01

was trying to figure

15:04

out what ended up being what do the clowns

15:06

think? I was trying to figure out

15:08

a way to say, like why are people looking

15:10

to you? Why are people

15:12

looking at the guy who played Rick James for transgender

15:15

advice? Like how

15:17

to say that? Right. I

15:20

kept missing him. And then I just,

15:22

I said, what did the clowns think once

15:25

at my show in Santa Monica didn't work?

15:27

Yeah. I was like, I feel like that's funny. And

15:29

I just did it on the special and it worked.

15:32

Right. The basic premise of the joke.

15:34

If people haven't seen it. People should watch the

15:36

special, but go ahead. The basic premise is, you

15:39

know, that comedians are now leaders.

15:41

Like comedians are now. We've become

15:43

thought leaders. Yes, because corporate leaders

15:45

failed, political leaders failed and media

15:47

leaders failed. They

15:49

just, they're all in it for the money. So then

15:51

we become, we just, because

15:54

the systems failed like, all right, well, step

15:57

up comedians. So I'm. I'm

16:00

saying how stupid that is. Why would you have a

16:02

serious issue, transgender stuff and

16:04

go, well, what do the clowns think? Right,

16:06

what do the clowns think? Has anyone asked

16:08

the clowns where they stand? I

16:11

did a joke about Ellen. The joke, the

16:13

version I didn't do was like, is Ellen nice?

16:16

Don't worry, you're never gonna meet her. Yes,

16:19

that's so funny. Just keep people where

16:21

they are. Wait, you have a

16:23

Kyrie Irving reference. Yeah, I have Kyrie Irving and a-

16:25

Did you talk to Kyrie Irving? I didn't talk to

16:27

Kyrie. I didn't speak to any of the athletes. So

16:33

it's just like, is so-and-so a good

16:35

dad? Before I answer

16:37

this, are you his son? That's

16:40

very funny. Then why do you care? Yeah,

16:43

it's not a problem. Because I need everybody.

16:45

It's the thing of the everything marriage, where

16:48

your wife has to be your best

16:50

friend and your confidant and your business

16:52

partner and you guys jog together and

16:54

you do hot yoga and everything. And

16:58

it's like, it's too much pressure for

17:00

one person. And it's similar, I

17:02

feel similarly with people

17:05

in culture where it's like, is

17:07

Kevin Hart humble? What? Why

17:14

would you think, why would you want

17:16

that? Yeah, that's a joke from this, it's

17:18

one of my favorite jokes from this special. Which

17:20

is like, is Kevin Hart humble?

17:24

It's like, look, yeah, no, you're a handyman,

17:26

you're not humble. Is that

17:28

five foot three billionaire humble? What

17:31

do you think? How humble do you think

17:33

he is on a scale from Napoleon to Tom Cruise? Where

17:36

do you think little Kev fits in? And

17:39

then that's the other thing, one night a woman was like,

17:41

why you gotta call him little Kevin? It's like, cause I've

17:44

known him for 20 years. And

17:47

his first name and headshot was

17:49

Lil Kev the bastard. He

17:51

used to go by Lil Kev the bastard, that was a

17:53

stage name. That's correct. Look

17:56

it up, it's one of the funniest backwoods

17:58

in comedy. Lil Kev. Yes, to

18:00

answer your question, woman who thinks I'm disrespecting

18:02

him, is I'm calling him by the name

18:04

he told me to call him by. Will

18:07

Kev. Will Kev. Will Kev

18:09

the bastard. Keith Robinson, I think still calls

18:11

him the bastard. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

18:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

18:16

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

18:19

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

18:21

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

18:24

Yeah. Support for Working It Out comes from

18:26

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18:29

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18:31

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sleep starts now. Do

19:27

you engage with your, you were saying you got DM

19:33

from that person being like, where were you? How

19:35

come you didn't show up? Do

19:37

you have that, you must have

19:39

that with your fans to some degree, because you're so

19:41

open about your depression. People must, do

19:44

people come up to you and talk to you about

19:46

their issues? Yeah, if somebody, there's certain, now

19:48

that I have a girlfriend, like I have significantly

19:51

less interest

19:53

in social media, meaning like if

19:56

I'm not promoting a tour and

19:58

I'm not trying, I'm not waiting

20:00

for women to DM me, it's

20:03

useless. Now having said that,

20:05

I got a DM yesterday about

20:07

like a

20:11

woman said that her son had

20:13

committed suicide and she

20:15

watched three mics. And

20:18

after that, she's like, I wish I could have, it

20:21

made me understand what he was going through. Oh

20:24

gosh. Yeah, just like I get choked up talking

20:26

about. Something like that I respond

20:28

to. But like,

20:31

yo, what's up? I don't have any, like stuff

20:33

like that I will, that's meaningful

20:36

and I'd be, I

20:41

think it would be inhumane not to respond. Do

20:44

you feel like- Beyond horrible

20:47

branding, go ahead. Go

20:49

ahead. Do you

20:51

think, when you

20:53

get a message like that, does it make you feel

20:55

like as a comic that we serve

20:58

a purpose? Yeah,

21:00

I don't, but I don't get too

21:03

caught up in, that

21:06

wasn't why I did it. You know what I

21:08

mean? Like, I don't, I'm not like when I leave

21:11

my house and I go like, I'll be

21:13

at the comedy store doing a public

21:15

service, sweetheart, back in a half hour.

21:17

It's going to be funny.

21:19

And then I think

21:21

with just a regular bit

21:23

about me saying people

21:27

are overusing the word trauma on

21:29

social media. That's not,

21:31

no one's going to thank me. I mean, people have,

21:33

people have thanked me in the comments, but like,

21:36

it's, I think the biggest thing is

21:38

saying to people, you're not crazy. It

21:41

is overused, you're not crazy. The

21:44

crypto bros are like aggravating

21:47

just regular bits.

21:51

Right, right. Do you know what

21:53

I mean? Even subconsciously, that's what got you into

21:55

comedy when you were a teenager. Which

21:58

part? of like feeling

22:01

less alone of like, oh, this person

22:03

thinks this thing that I thought was

22:05

just a thing I thought. I

22:09

think the under regarded

22:17

inspiration for comedy and

22:19

any, I don't

22:21

wanna say anything in life, it's just status

22:25

seeking. Yeah. It's

22:27

just like, I would like some higher

22:30

status in the world,

22:32

please. But I think the need

22:34

is, I

22:39

said it to my girlfriend the other day about like, you

22:42

want love, maybe

22:44

it's parental love, maybe it's, and then

22:46

you've stuck, you've shoved status in the

22:48

hole, in the love hole.

22:51

And it kind of fits for

22:54

a while. You have to like, there's gaps and

22:56

stuff, but you kind of just shove it in.

22:58

So I don't, but I think

23:00

you can be an incredible artist

23:03

and still have the absolute

23:07

worst reasoning why. Yeah. Like,

23:10

and I say that not even firsthand. I

23:12

say it like, no, I

23:14

know incredible artists who

23:16

are basically doing it because they

23:19

want status and money and popularity and

23:21

fame. And

23:24

they make pitch

23:26

perfect art. That's interesting. Yeah, I

23:29

think it's a thing that people don't say enough. It's like,

23:31

no, I would, we're

23:33

social animals, we would like to be

23:35

higher on the status hierarchy. Yeah. And

23:40

I've had, I say that

23:42

as somebody who was like, I became, I

23:45

was very low status for, I

23:48

wrote for all that and MTV and

23:50

then did half baked. And I

23:53

was sort of like, me

23:55

and Dave wrote it together, but it was like, I

23:58

remember at the, how old are you, Neal? Well,

24:01

at the wedding singer premiere, the

24:04

producer of the wedding singer produced Half Baked and he

24:06

introduced me to his father and he said, dad,

24:09

this is the guy who wrote Half

24:11

Baked, he's more talented than he looks. Oh

24:13

my God. So

24:16

I was never like the bell

24:18

of the ball and like the flash bulbs and

24:20

all that stuff. And

24:25

even at your premiere for... Your premiere for...

24:29

Think I'm for jokes or my girlfriend's boyfriend? No, the one that was in

24:31

LA. Oh yeah, yeah, the

24:33

old man in the pool. Somebody,

24:36

I was stepping up, I thought they wanted

24:39

me to take pictures and then they were

24:41

like, no, not you. No,

24:43

not you, oh my God. Somebody else. And I

24:45

was like, oh, this is great. Cause

24:47

I don't think you get funnier by getting your

24:50

picture taken. I think you get funnier by them

24:52

going, not you. Not you. I think I got 3% funnier.

24:56

Just in that moment. Yeah, yeah, I get that.

24:58

But I would like to eradicate that

25:01

from my life. The

25:04

good news is it'll never go away. I

25:06

know it's never gonna go away. Like I

25:08

just also attract that. Yeah, yeah. So

25:12

it's thwarted status. I became

25:14

a very high status writer and then

25:16

didn't really wanna be and then became

25:18

like a low status director and an

25:20

even lower status comedian and have worked

25:22

my way up the status ladder in

25:24

standup. The on

25:27

the Kennedy Center honors for

25:30

Chappelle. You tell this story about

25:33

how you got involved with Half Baked. And

25:36

I'm like, it's so funny of

25:38

a story that I'm like, is

25:40

it even a hundred percent true?

25:43

Basically, I'll paraphrase, Dave

25:47

Chappelle calls you and who you're friends with

25:49

and we're- I'll tell the story cause there's

25:51

parts that I didn't put in the thing.

25:53

Okay. Me and Chappelle, we'd

25:56

written, whenever I was working

25:58

the door and then I was... then

26:00

I gave him some like pitches for

26:02

tags for his

26:04

act that worked, right? This is in 92, 93. He

26:08

actually flew me out to LA when he was

26:10

doing Robin Hood Men in Tights and we just

26:12

hung out and it was like a good, we

26:14

had lunch with Mel Brooks, just like cool like

26:16

radio contest

26:18

winner stuff. Like great,

26:20

really. Like, Ty, we go to

26:23

Arsenio, he was a guest.

26:25

It was like just, he gave

26:27

me like, sort of like got me in and

26:29

I was like, oh shit, 96, we

26:32

see Trainspotting, the movie. It's

26:39

a great movie, I love it. And we're walking

26:41

out, it was late 96 and he's like, yeah,

26:45

you could do like a weed movie. You

26:47

could do a weed version of that. I'm

26:49

like, oh yeah, literally he says you get

26:51

a weed version. I'm like, oh yeah, that's

26:53

true. Of Trainspotting. Yeah. Yeah,

26:55

yeah. Four

26:57

months later, he says

26:59

if Universal calls, tell

27:04

him we're doing a weed movie. That's

27:07

all I knew. So then

27:09

they called me. And you were like okay.

27:11

Yeah, I had no idea what he was

27:13

talking about. I guess

27:16

I was like the train, I didn't, whatever, it

27:18

was just like a thing we'd said. I'd

27:20

written a script that

27:23

had nothing to do with him that the

27:25

producer's office had read. And then I had

27:27

a meeting with the producer where

27:29

I was just funny in the meeting. This is before

27:31

David got in. So then he goes in, goes,

27:33

I'm writing a weed movie with my buddy and they go, who? And

27:35

he goes, you've never heard him. They

27:37

go, who? And he goes, Neil Brennan. And they

27:39

go, he was just here. So

27:42

then he says, if they call you were doing a

27:44

weed movie, they call me, I go, are you doing

27:47

a weed movie? I was like, yes. Oh

27:49

my gosh. When, when can you pitch

27:51

it? And I don't know anything about

27:53

Hollywood. And I go, in

27:55

30 days time, like being legal

27:57

about it. So then

27:59

I, I'm like probably

28:01

paging him in this. Right,

28:03

it's the 90s. Maybe he has a cell phone, I don't even

28:05

remember. The

28:08

day before I say, hey

28:10

man, we gotta outline that weed movie.

28:14

We have a pitch tomorrow. Wow.

28:17

The joke that I added was, and then he said

28:19

what weed movie? What weed movie, yeah. Added, and in

28:22

fact, I think Trayvon Free pitched me that joke like

28:24

the day before. Yeah. Huge. So

28:28

we're trying to outline this movie. I'd

28:31

given him this book, The

28:33

Writer's Journey, which has got like

28:35

the best screenplay

28:38

structure guide in

28:40

it. I'd given it to him like a

28:42

week earlier, like hey, we should read this. I'd read it,

28:44

it was helpful. I was like, we should read this.

28:48

I think he read at least, and like he

28:50

just was like, you know, he got it. So

28:54

then we had a son, we were pitching Monday

28:56

at 9.30 or something, and

28:58

we took the Sunday and just did

29:00

this with like index cards, because I'd

29:02

seen a documentary

29:04

on PBS about two screenwriters

29:06

called Lowell Gans and Babalu

29:09

Mandel who wrote City Slickers.

29:11

That's right. If

29:13

I don't see that, I don't know what we're doing. Wow.

29:17

So then we're just, and then we just

29:19

basically outlined what became the movie that

29:22

day. Yeah. And

29:24

at one point we went to the comedy

29:26

store because it was across the

29:28

street, and like Roseanne

29:31

was there, and this is like when Roseanne's

29:33

a big deal, and

29:36

she like said to Dave, like, and he's like, hey, I'm

29:38

Dave Schmell, and she was like, I've heard of you. And

29:41

then I go for a joke, I go, I'm Richard

29:43

Pryor, and she's like, what? I was like,

29:45

all right. I

29:47

just got 3% funnier. And

29:50

then, so then we pitch it the next day,

29:54

and we basically sold the movie. This is

29:56

in March, and then we're shooting in July.

29:58

Like just an insane. That's a very, it's

30:00

such a nod. The thing that got cut

30:03

was, then

30:06

it gets made, gets greenlit, gets

30:08

made. It came out

30:10

the next January, so it's less than a

30:12

year. From pitch to

30:14

screen. And the joke is

30:17

like in that level of quality really shows up

30:19

on screen. And,

30:22

but the whole time we were doing it, people were

30:25

like, you know, movies don't usually get made this quickly.

30:27

And in the back of our heads were like, maybe

30:29

not for you, they don't. Yeah, yeah. And

30:31

then of course we opened against the Goodwill

30:33

Hunting and Titanic and like, didn't

30:36

have for us again that way either. Yeah. You

30:40

know, it's a bizarre timeline. Dave

30:43

was one of the first people I ever opened

30:45

for, Total Fluke, I won the funniest person on

30:47

campus at Georgetown. You

30:49

can open first. And he said, who's

30:51

the funniest person from Georgetown? No, no,

30:53

so then it was just, he was

30:55

the headliner. Yeah, at the DC improv?

30:57

Yeah. And I asked him, it was, was

30:59

this in 1997 I think? Was

31:02

that the year it came out? The movie? Yeah, came

31:04

out in 98, January. So that was like

31:07

the first time I did stand up. And

31:09

I asked him for advice. And then he, and I remember he

31:11

goes, make sure all

31:13

your friends go see Half Banked. Okay.

31:35

All right, this is a slow round. What are

31:37

people's favorite and least favorite thing about you? This

31:41

is like your broadcast. This is

31:44

both categories, Mike, are so long. Friends

31:49

or audience members? Friends.

31:53

Like probably loyal,

31:56

funny, thoughtful. and

32:02

intelligent and

32:04

helpful if asked. And

32:10

unlike probably petty,

32:13

self-involved, probably

32:21

callous, Brian Simpson was on my

32:23

podcast, great comedian from Austin. He's

32:26

got a Netflix special called, the life

32:28

of the mothership. And he said, he

32:30

goes, the problem is your voice sounds

32:32

like you're perturbed and

32:35

in a hurry. And

32:37

the minute I heard it, I was like, he's

32:39

right. I can't even, he's absolutely right. So

32:43

yeah, the petty, grudge holding,

32:48

probably self-involved. Seemed

32:50

like you're in a hurry. And seemed like I'm

32:53

perturbed in a hurry. When's the time you

32:55

didn't apologize but wish you did? Yeah,

32:59

the thing that comes to mind, this is

33:01

from 25 years, 26 years ago. My

33:06

friend at the time, Randy, or whenever he's still my

33:08

friend, he doesn't speak to me, but

33:10

we're friends. Don't worry about it.

33:12

And he's

33:15

my friend. I don't know, whatever. He's

33:17

just like, look, if something, here's the great thing about me is

33:20

I stop speaking to people all the time, not

33:22

all the time, but you know, once a year probably.

33:26

And, but when people stop speaking

33:28

to me, fair and square.

33:30

I don't know why. I

33:33

can figure out. You heard the list. And

33:38

he was doing a

33:41

seminar or something. There

33:43

was a screenwriting class in a high school in

33:45

Long Island. And

33:47

I said, I told somebody

33:49

about a movie. I told the class about,

33:51

and a kid pitched an

33:53

idea that in

33:56

retrospect is a good idea. And I didn't

33:58

say that's a good idea. I was like, Yeah, but

34:01

that's the thing where I was like, that's one where

34:03

like, if I had a do over,

34:06

just off the top of my head. Why

34:09

didn't you say it was a good idea? Because it was

34:12

like derivative, but at that age, it's like, they're

34:14

gonna be derivative. You know what I mean? But

34:16

it was derivative in a good way. So

34:21

that's the one that comes to mind. Apologize when I,

34:23

I wish I'd apologized to

34:30

most women I dated in

34:32

the moment. It's

34:34

not even a policy. It's a different thing.

34:37

I wish I'd ended relationship sooner. That's not

34:39

even near the question, but I

34:41

wish I'd ended certain

34:43

romantic relationship sooner and personal relationship sooner.

34:45

I wish I'd cut more people off

34:48

sooner. Not cut them

34:50

off, but there are some

34:52

small businesses, some ideas, some jokes, some

34:55

relationships that are just never gonna work.

34:58

And I feel like I've

35:00

thrown, I've abided by

35:03

the sunk cost fallacy of like, well, I've

35:05

already put in so much time. Let me

35:07

put in more. Right. So-

35:10

When you've had this a handful of times and I can get this out

35:12

if it's too personal, but like handful of times where you

35:15

and I have friends in common where you're like,

35:17

yeah, I'm not really friends with them anymore. I'm

35:19

kind of done with the

35:21

rigmarole of like chasing them down kind of

35:24

thing. And I'm always kind

35:26

of, for me, I'm always kind of like, as your

35:28

friend, I'm like, yeah, but that's what

35:31

that person's like. What are you gonna do? But you're

35:33

kind of just like, nah, nah. Well,

35:36

if that's what they're like, what I'm gonna

35:38

do is stop talking to them. That's

35:42

it. It's like, I

35:44

just have like more, the

35:46

Iowaska DMT, MDMA combo has

35:48

given me some self-respect. So

35:53

more than I've ever had. Do you think

35:56

you changed the way that you

35:59

were doing it? that you perceive friendship

36:02

from that? Like in other

36:04

words, do you think you used

36:06

to be okay with like an 80-20 friendship or

36:08

a 60-40 friendship? Yeah, I used to be okay. Yeah, and I think I've

36:10

said to you, it's gotta be 55-45 at worst. Oh,

36:14

interesting. Ideally, a relationship's 50-50. It's

36:17

impossible, the measurements are impossible, but

36:19

so you're gonna 55, in terms

36:21

of enthusiasm, I think it's gotta be 50-50. It'll

36:26

go, it'll, you know, times,

36:29

currents, events, whatever, but

36:32

I find hollow relationships dispiriting

36:38

and depleting,

36:41

whereas I used to tell myself they were

36:43

enriching and they just weren't. That

36:46

makes sense. Do you remember timing

36:48

your life where you're an inauthentic version of yourself? Yeah,

36:51

but it's, I

36:53

think the assumption when you're an inauthentic

36:55

version of yourself is that it's, you're

36:59

doing it maliciously. You're doing it

37:01

like, you're the talented

37:03

Mr. Ripley. Right, right, right.

37:05

I'm doing duplicity. I

37:08

think it's hard to

37:11

figure out who you are. Yeah. Like

37:14

I thought of a bit that I haven't

37:16

even written yet, but I thought of a bit

37:18

of like a lot of

37:20

life as being a shitty detective

37:23

for yourself. Yes.

37:26

Like, is this my identity? And

37:28

you're at a nightclub, like with a magnifying

37:30

house, going like, is it, of course it

37:32

couldn't be in a nightclub to the gymnasium.

37:35

And then you, to Equi Driver, to

37:37

the Equinox, and then you're looking like,

37:40

maybe I'm a bodybuilder. Maybe I'm a,

37:42

or even, I don't know

37:44

if I said this to you, I may have said it

37:46

to you, but like, there was a, I

37:49

remember seeing an art exhibit like in midtown in

37:51

the 90s when I would just walk around and

37:53

walk around and walk around and walk around. And

37:57

there was a sign that said like the,

37:59

The purpose of one's life is to give

38:02

birth to themselves. And I

38:04

remember going like, it just like, boing, like,

38:06

all right, that's in the,

38:08

that's in the, my Magna Carta

38:10

now. Yeah. Well, that's

38:12

where you go back, that's where it goes back to the thing

38:14

you were saying about uneven friendships. It's the

38:16

same thing. Yeah, it's like the recent point

38:18

where you're like, no, I don't really want to. I

38:20

know what happens and it didn't feel good. And

38:23

it happened a hundred times. So I'm like, I'm gonna

38:25

take that, I'm gonna take its word for it. Yeah,

38:27

yeah. I'm gonna take the relationship's word for it. And

38:30

it's not, and the nice thing,

38:32

it's not even malicious. It's just like,

38:34

I don't know. Yeah. You

38:37

know, we could, but I don't like it. So.

38:41

How do you open this out to someone who's

38:43

listening? Because I think what you're saying is super

38:45

relatable. And I like, I think you should consider

38:47

talking about in your next special, this idea of

38:49

like, if you're in an uneven friendship or relationship,

38:52

but it's like, what would your advice be to someone who's listening to

38:54

this going like, oh yeah, that's me. Well,

38:57

who, are they the hero or the villain?

39:01

No, they're the person who's getting like the

39:04

3070, the 30 of the

39:06

3070 friendship. Well, yeah, like

39:08

I said, my friend Randy,

39:11

that doesn't speak, I've spoken to me eight

39:14

years, a long time. Yeah. Told

39:16

me why, I was like, I can't argue with it. Sometimes

39:19

there have been relationships where I've been like, I

39:21

can tell you, but I don't, it's like, I

39:23

don't need you to change. It's just not, it

39:25

doesn't work for me. But

39:28

I don't think you're a shitty person. I just think like,

39:30

you're set up the way you're set up. And that's just

39:32

what you're gonna be set up as. It's

39:35

the, Maya

39:37

Angelou, if somebody tells you who they are, believe

39:39

them. It's so true,

39:42

it's on magnets. It's

39:45

so true, it's on magnets. You know what

39:47

I mean? Like it's so beyond true, it's

39:49

useless. So yeah, like

39:51

I think it's hard and relationships are hard

39:53

work. They're not that hard and

39:56

they're not, even romantic

39:58

ones, they're not. they don't have to be

40:00

that hard. They require maintenance. They require like,

40:02

you know, spraying the

40:04

boat down, but they're not, you don't

40:07

have to build the boat by yourself, you

40:09

just spray it down together. So

40:12

yeah, I think you might

40:16

miss that person, but

40:18

in my experience, you won't miss the person. You'll

40:21

just wish it worked out,

40:23

but you won't be like, man, I

40:25

wish I had some more disrespect in my

40:27

life. Oh my gosh. I

40:29

had more hollow disrespect,

40:31

hollow silent disrespect that

40:34

I can't prove, but I

40:36

know is there. Yeah. It's

40:38

just, it's a drag on your

40:40

life. Okay, material,

40:43

I want to talk about material. This

40:45

was the thing I had this week, which is I'm

40:48

sort of, I threw on stage this week and

40:50

I don't know what to do with it exactly, but I'm doing

40:52

this thing, I was doing this thing about cults and

40:55

how I would be open to sort of joining a

40:57

cult. And it's

40:59

a joke, it's I go like, I

41:02

go the first episode of the documentary is,

41:04

you always feel, yeah. I'm on board. Yeah,

41:07

I'm on board. Yeah. Yeah, the

41:10

community, there's a good sense of community, there's

41:12

good, Roberto makes a

41:14

nice quiche, there's some

41:16

carpooling. It's communal. It's

41:18

communal, second episode, it's like, then

41:20

we had to have sex with leader and

41:22

I'm just like. No, I did a joke.

41:24

Oh, you did a similar joke. I did

41:27

a joke in the documentary thing in Crazy

41:29

Kid where I was like, I said,

41:31

if you haven't seen one of

41:34

the cult documentaries, here's what happened.

41:37

There's a cult, it's going pretty good.

41:39

And then at a certain point, the leader goes, hey everybody,

41:42

I spoke to God, he needs me to

41:44

fuck all your lives. Oh my God, Jesus

41:46

Christ. So,

41:49

and that's what happens in

41:51

all, it's what happens. It's the same documentary

41:53

over and over again. Yes, it's just like

41:55

different haircuts, different outfits. But here's what's funny,

41:58

so I did it in 10. I

42:01

did that joke in Texas. And it was, and-

42:03

They can hear you, even if you're- There was

42:05

a joke in Texas a few weeks ago and

42:08

someone wrote me a letter. And again, we're

42:10

talking about feedback earlier. A letter? Email, they

42:12

wrote me an email. And it was

42:14

basically like- Registered mail. And it was basically like,

42:17

you know, I enjoyed the show,

42:19

but I was concerned because sex with a

42:21

leader, it would

42:23

be disproportionately, your wife would be

42:25

affected more by it than you.

42:28

Yeah. Oh, I know, it's a joke.

42:30

Yeah. Either this person is like really,

42:33

really misunderstanding

42:35

what I'm saying, or I'm very

42:38

much misconveying what the joke is.

42:41

I think they're misunderstanding what you're saying.

42:43

I think that it's just, that's not

42:45

comp, I mean, I literally

42:47

had to write to somebody at one

42:49

point, it was in comments, and this is back when

42:52

I was single, so I was more online. So

42:54

I wrote like, you

42:56

don't understand comedy. I'm up

42:59

there saying my point of

43:01

view. Yeah. And

43:03

if it's funny, I keep saying it.

43:05

Yeah. I'm not

43:07

up there to portray,

43:11

if I just go over there and portray shared

43:13

values, it's a support

43:15

group. Yeah, that's an interesting way to put

43:17

it. Yeah, it's just not comedy. I'm not

43:19

up there to say, here's

43:22

what we all believe. Right.

43:24

And read it or say it in a different

43:26

way. Right. It's like

43:29

clapdery or it's not, there

43:31

has to be tension or there's not,

43:33

it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna be

43:35

funny. This is another one where this

43:38

happened last week. I was in Tulsa, which

43:40

was great, by the way. When

43:42

Gary and I, who

43:45

opens the shows on the tour, when we

43:47

landed in Tulsa, the driver

43:49

from the hotel picked us up. We

43:51

told her it was our first time in town, and

43:54

so she started calling out the sites.

43:56

She was like, that's the park and

43:58

that's the city hall. And then she pointed

44:00

her left and she goes, and there was

44:02

a police shootout there last week. And

44:05

Gary and I sort of flashed each other like, huh,

44:07

I'm trying not to stay away from there. And

44:10

then 40 feet later, she stopped the car and said,

44:12

and here's your hotel. That's

44:15

really fun. It was scary. Yeah,

44:18

I thought when there's police shootout

44:21

last week, like, oh, congratulations. Like, you

44:23

guys got a police shootout, very good.

44:27

Yeah, that's very funny. And

44:31

yeah, maybe it's like, oh no, we moved. We

44:35

changed the reservation. When? Right after

44:37

you just said what you said. We just

44:39

changed our reservation. In the three seconds between.

44:42

So let's keep going. Let's just keep

44:45

driving. Just keep going. We're gonna find

44:47

the other place. All right, the last

44:49

thing we do in the show is

44:51

working it out for

44:55

a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you

44:57

like to support? Amazon Watch is a nonprofit

44:59

that protects indigenous

45:02

people and rights. When

45:04

I looked it up, just to be clear,

45:07

a whole bunch of photos of

45:09

wristwatches showing up. I should hope so. It

45:12

sounds like a very fake. The

45:16

organization is called amazonwatch.org, founded

45:20

in 1996 to protect the rainforest and

45:23

advance the rights of indigenous peoples in the Amazon

45:25

basin. We'll contribute to them. We'll link to them

45:27

in the show notes. Thanks for coming on. Love

45:29

the special. I'm so glad it's doing so well.

45:31

Thank you. And yeah,

45:34

it's awesome. Thank you. Great to have

45:36

you buddy. Great to be here. Well,

45:39

we're gonna take out great to have you.

45:42

Yeah, I think you have. Working

45:45

it out, cause it's not

45:47

done. Working

45:50

it out, cause there's no.

45:53

That's gonna do it for another episode

45:55

of working it out. I love talking

45:57

to Neil. His new special crazy good

45:59

is on Netflix now. You can follow

46:01

him. on Instagram at Neil Brennan on

46:03

TikTok at m r Neil Brennan. You

46:05

can watch the full video of this

46:07

interview on our YouTube page which is

46:10

at Mike Berbiglia. Check that out and

46:12

also subscribe. We're posting more and more

46:14

videos every day over on YouTube. Our

46:16

producers of Working It Out are myself

46:18

along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Berbiglia, Mabel

46:20

Lewis, associate producer Gary Simons, sound mix

46:22

by Shub Saren, supervising engineer Kate Bolinski,

46:24

special thanks to David Raphael, and Nina

46:26

Quick. Special thanks to Jack Andrenoff and

46:28

Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as

46:31

always to my wife, the poet J.

46:33

Hope Stein. Her book, Little

46:35

Astronaut, is not only in bookstores, but

46:37

it's available on audiobook now. Special thanks

46:39

as always to our daughter, Una, who

46:41

built the original radio fort made of

46:43

pillows. Thanks most of all to you

46:45

who are listening. If you enjoy the

46:47

show, rate us and review us on

46:49

Apple Podcasts. Tell everybody which

46:51

episode you like best and you think that

46:53

people should start on. Tell your friends, tell

46:55

your enemies. You know, we

46:58

talked a lot about friendship today on the show.

47:00

How Neil requires something close to a

47:02

50-50 effort, maybe

47:04

a 55-45. Let's say you have a friend

47:07

who's teetering on the edge. They're only putting

47:09

in, let's say, 45-44, 43, maybe 40. You got

47:11

to be honest. You go, hey, I noticed you're

47:13

hovering around

47:16

45-44. Why don't you

47:18

listen to this specific episode of Mike Berbiglia's Working

47:20

It Out with Neil Brennan. Maybe

47:22

you'll realize why you got to get back to 45.

47:25

Thanks a lot everybody. We're working it out.