0:03

You're listening to a

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Roddenberry Podcast. Mission

0:11

Log, a Roddenberry Star Trek Podcast,

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Episode 539, Bliss. Welcome

0:31

to another episode of Mission Log, a

0:33

Roddenberry Star Trek Podcast. I'm Jon Champion.

0:36

And I'm Jessica Lynn Verde, sitting in

0:38

for Norman Lau. Each week

0:40

on Mission Log, we examine an episode

0:43

of Star Trek looking for the morals,

0:45

messages, and meanings,

0:47

asking ourselves, does it

0:49

stand the test of time? Does it

0:51

indeed? This week, Bliss, the one

0:53

where everyone is super excited about

0:55

going back to Earth. But Seven

0:57

of Nine's total disinterest just might

1:00

save them all. Yeah.

1:02

Jessica, welcome to the show. I hope

1:04

that you are not a new voice

1:06

to our audience because, of course, you

1:08

host Mission Log the Orville on

1:11

our very own podcast at

1:13

roddenberry.com. But for those

1:15

who may not know you, give us the nickel tour,

1:17

if you would. My name

1:19

is Jessica Lynn Verde. A long time

1:21

ago, I was born on a cloudy

1:23

day, and my mother was grateful. And

1:26

then fast forward and... Yeah,

1:28

I'm a Star Trek lover since I

1:30

was a young kid. I was part

1:32

of the improvised generation at Impro Theater

1:34

in Los Angeles. And

1:37

yeah, I was asked to do the

1:39

Mission Log the Orville show with the

1:41

wonderful Mike Richards and just having a

1:43

blast going through episode by episode over

1:45

there. And it has brought me

1:48

to today, I think. Yeah, I love

1:50

that. Well, you've done Mission

1:52

Log the Orville. You did the spinoff

1:54

series, Talking Ted, about Seth MacFarlane's comedy

1:56

show on Peacock. Has a

1:58

lot of morals messages. meetings and that.

2:01

It does. It does. It actually does.

2:03

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love how

2:05

they took that kind of 90s sitcom

2:07

style and like they were true to

2:10

that, but then they were

2:12

also true to Seth's humor and. You

2:14

can see a lot of reverence for

2:16

like Norman Lear there and

2:19

stuff. Yeah. It's pretty good. It made a lot

2:21

of sense. Thanks to you for like going, I see

2:23

this. This makes lot of sense. And

2:25

here we are to today. And of course, Mission

2:28

Log, the Orville makes sense because the Orville is

2:30

very much Seth's love letter to this period of

2:32

like 90s Star Trek. So

2:34

that's just it. And I was having

2:36

a conversation today where I used

2:39

to actually really have an issue with people

2:41

going, it's the real Star Trek. It's our

2:43

Star Trek in, and I'm of the opinion,

2:46

if you like discovery, if you like strange

2:48

new worlds, if this is your Star Trek,

2:50

good for you. And I actually learned how

2:52

to love it without

2:54

needing it to be Star Trek,

2:56

but I can, but, but he'd

2:58

really, as opposed to

3:00

rewriting the wheel, he took

3:03

something we love and just updated it a

3:05

little bit. And so it is really successful

3:07

and it allowed it to become its own

3:10

thing in the end. Bring it to say

3:12

like, here's my thing here. Here's what I love.

3:14

And that that's awesome. I love that.

3:16

That's exactly right. Let me give our

3:18

audience an opportunity to find out how

3:20

they can engage with us. I would

3:22

adore that. Yes. Thank you. So

3:24

just so you know, Mission Log is

3:27

a conversation about Star Trek. You can

3:29

find the show at missionlog at rodbury.com

3:31

and on X and Facebook at Mission

3:34

Log Pod. While you're at it, just

3:36

give us a review and give

3:38

us a reading on Apple Podcasts. Apparently you

3:41

can review on Spotify now. That helps us

3:43

and goes a long way, especially if you

3:45

can't, you know, contribute monetarily, if

3:47

you don't feel like commenting. Do

3:50

remember that, however, your comments could potentially

3:52

be used on Mission Log or engage

3:54

with the Roddenberry YouTube channel. Wait, did

3:57

I say that all wrong? I sure

3:59

did. didn't I? No, no, you got

4:01

it. You got it. Well, sort of. I put the

4:03

emphasis on the wrong word. Remember,

4:06

your comments could be used on mission

4:08

logs, so be nice or be critical

4:10

in a thoughtful way. There we go.

4:12

You can engage with Roddenberry on our

4:14

YouTube channel and the, what is this,

4:16

the Roddenberry Industrial Complex will not be

4:18

denied. Adam Rofat and I don't have

4:20

the heart to take it out. Fair

4:23

enough. Are you ready to give us

4:25

this week's trivia, John? I am, I

4:27

am. Let's bliss out a

4:29

little bit on the trivia this week. Sure.

4:31

I know, that was clever. That was good.

4:33

We have a story by Bill Prady, and

4:36

probably everybody listening to this knows his name.

4:38

And at the time, Bill was producing and

4:40

writing the sitcom Dharma and Greg, and he

4:42

was and is a fan

4:44

of Star Trek, and he pitched a

4:46

story about a plant-based life form that

4:48

emits pheromones that attract prey, and you

4:51

know, you get the idea from there.

4:53

Now, of course, Bill has had a

4:55

long and successful career from theme parks

4:58

to Muppets to a number of hit

5:00

TV shows. Most recently, you probably associate

5:02

his name with the Big Bang Theory

5:04

and it's been off Young Sheldon. So

5:07

far, this is his only episodic Star

5:09

Trek writing credit. Maybe we'll see more

5:11

in the future. That's interesting. Right, right.

5:13

You would think that his name would

5:15

be all over it. Now,

5:17

he came up with the idea, but

5:19

the teleplay is by Robert J. Doherty,

5:22

and we mentioned Robert last season for

5:24

his first Trek contribution, which was the

5:26

Voyager episode, Visa V. And he got

5:28

a start on Voyager as an assistant

5:30

to the producers, and then he found

5:32

himself in the position of

5:34

the youngest staff writer on the

5:36

series, later becoming a story editor.

5:38

And he's got many more episodes

5:40

of Voyager to go through the

5:42

end of the series. Our

5:45

episode today was directed by Cliff Bowle,

5:47

not a new name to us by

5:49

any stretch. Cliff, remember, got his start

5:51

back in season one of the next

5:53

generation. I remember. You do. Of course

5:55

you do. And we,

5:58

as of this episode, So we are nearly

6:00

at the end of his contributions to Voyager

6:02

and thus the entirety of the Star Trek

6:04

franchise. I think it just has one more

6:07

episode to go. So it was a nice

6:09

long run for Cliff. Jessica,

6:12

have you ever owned a pitcher plant

6:14

or a Venus fly trap or anything

6:16

like that? No and

6:18

much to my chagrin. You

6:20

know, I always like I didn't

6:23

necessarily need a carnivorous thing in my

6:25

home, but I always wanted that. Like,

6:28

you know, I would always want to check those

6:30

out and they would say like, put your finger

6:32

in it in the Venus fly trap. You know,

6:34

yes, pitcher plants, obviously a real thing. Not

6:37

exactly the same physiology as a Venus fly

6:39

trap, but those are two things that are

6:42

carnivorous plant species.

6:44

And I think that's very cool. They get a couple

6:47

of mentions in the episode. Don't really go into it

6:49

in the in the recap, but just wanted to mention

6:51

that. Yeah, they're a real thing. And if you own

6:53

one, let me know how you feed it. Yes,

6:56

I think that's the part where why

6:59

I couldn't own a snake or something.

7:01

Because I just don't want to have

7:03

to deal with feeding one entity to

7:05

another entity. I do think it's important,

7:07

though, that you noted here in the

7:09

trivia, because it kind of does accidentally

7:11

settle the debate as to whether this

7:13

is like a sentient

7:16

being or not, because I, you know,

7:18

so if you actually is modeling

7:21

this after a pitcher plant, although, you know,

7:23

there's more and more. I'm

7:25

countering myself. There's more and more studies

7:27

from scientists proving that there is a

7:29

form of sentience. And just because we

7:31

don't understand how a life form exists

7:33

doesn't mean we have the right to.

7:36

We will get there. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah,

7:38

we will do it. My whole brain just stopped.

7:40

Yeah. All right. So now now

7:43

I've planted that seed and then we will get

7:45

to it. All right. I want to point out

7:47

a couple of things about the the new set

7:49

pieces that we get here, not new set pieces.

7:51

This is essentially a bottle show and you have

7:53

just a little bit of katai ship. You know,

7:55

you think about it. You have some CG of

7:58

the creature of the. thing. But then

8:01

we have Katai ship exterior and we

8:03

have a little bit of his interior

8:05

and that's really it. So this is

8:08

not a, you know, big production in

8:10

that respect. But I love this like

8:13

he's got a lot of stock parts.

8:15

They just fill up his ship with

8:17

a lot of junk. And in fact,

8:19

the distress beacon that we just saw

8:22

in the episode gravity is this central

8:24

kind of round thing in his ship.

8:26

So that's right there. And thank you

8:28

to Data Logan for sending along that

8:30

bit of trivia. And by the way,

8:32

is that great? I love when you

8:34

can like name check props like, oh,

8:36

yeah, last week, we saw that three

8:38

weeks ago. And Data Logan

8:40

also points out just from a

8:42

scientific thing here, that deuterium that

8:44

they're looking for in the episode,

8:47

it is a stable isotope of

8:49

hydrogen. Hydrogen, of course, is the

8:51

most common element in the universe.

8:54

So why would the Voyager

8:56

crew have such a hard time finding it?

8:58

I, where it seems like they could make

9:00

it at this point, you know? Yeah, yeah.

9:02

So it's giving what's the Tim Allen movie,

9:10

when they have to go get the ball of the energy.

9:12

Oh, right. Yeah.

9:16

Yeah. Like, we just have to have we have

9:18

to go get we just do a fetch quest.

9:20

Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Or you just make

9:22

up the thing.

9:24

You know, say it's it's unobtainium.

9:27

Here's our unobtainium

9:30

for the episode, but apparently pretty obtainable

9:32

because it's everywhere. I tell people that

9:34

if you don't think you can be

9:37

a writer, just think about yes, for

9:39

sure that that JRR Tolkien wrote Gandalf

9:41

and created these names and use North

9:43

mythology and then also named

9:45

the Mountain Mountain Doom. So you can

9:47

also you can write these things. Yeah,

9:49

look, look, it's they can't all be

9:51

winners. All right, let's meet our guest

9:53

stars really just two to point out.

9:55

We get to say welcome back to

9:57

Scarlet Palmer's as new Amy Wildman. And

10:00

we have William Morgan Shepard as

10:03

Katai. And what can be

10:05

said about Morgan Shepard that we haven't

10:07

said already on Mission Log? He was

10:09

an actor with a lot of presence,

10:11

and we first saw him on TNG

10:13

in The Skitsoid Man. He

10:15

was unforgettable as the commandant of

10:18

Ruripenthe in Star Trek VI, the

10:20

undiscovered country. He was memorable

10:22

as Blank Reg in the TV series

10:24

Max Headroom. He appeared in the groundbreaking

10:26

original TV miniseries Shogun back in 1980,

10:29

and his career

10:31

goes fully back to the early

10:33

60s with appearances in British TV,

10:35

film, and stage. In fact, he

10:37

was with the Royal Shakespeare Company

10:39

for 12 years. You

10:42

can totally tell. Oh man, he

10:44

just... One of those

10:46

actors who just, without saying a

10:48

word, he's just got presence. Even

10:51

with all that on his face, for sure.

10:53

Yeah. Now we lost Shepard back

10:55

in 2019, but we still

10:57

have one more Star Trek appearance from him

10:59

coming up when we finally roll around to

11:02

the J.J. Abrams take on Star Trek from

11:04

2009. Voyager's

11:11

visitor seems familiar somehow, and yet

11:13

I'm drawing a blank. Prolog.

11:20

An old alien pilot, Katai,

11:22

fiercely attacks an enormous cloud-like

11:24

entity while lightning bolts strike

11:26

his ship. Despite, or maybe

11:28

because of, his defiant taunts,

11:30

he gets swallowed by the

11:32

entity. Act 1. On

11:35

Voyager's bridge, Captain Janeway, Tuvok, and

11:37

Shikote discuss a suspicious wormhole that

11:39

appears to lead directly back to

11:42

Earth. Discovery scans

11:44

hint at bioplasmic discharge, suggesting

11:46

a possible deception. Meanwhile,

11:49

Tom Parris, 7 of 9, and

11:51

Naomi Wildman return to Voyager from

11:53

an unsuccessful mission to find deuterium.

11:56

As excitement about the wormhole spreads,

11:59

seven remains skeptical, pointing out

12:01

the improbability of the wormhole's

12:03

sudden appearance. The crew,

12:05

however, are convinced it's genuine,

12:07

with Janeway and Chakotay even

12:09

receiving messages from Starfleet offering

12:11

them incredible personal news. Chakotay

12:13

gets a full pardon, and

12:15

Janeway learns that Mark's engagement

12:17

is off. Seven's

12:19

concerns grow as she hacks

12:22

into Janeway's logs, where she

12:24

notices a quick shift from

12:26

suspicion to total enthusiasm. The

12:29

crew's blind faith in the wormhole's

12:31

authenticity alarms her, especially as they

12:33

receive letters filled with overly optimistic

12:35

news from home. Neelix

12:37

gets an ambassadorial role. Tom

12:40

gets a plum gig as a test pilot. Her

12:43

suspicions lead her to Sickbay, where the

12:45

doctor is totally unaware of the crew's

12:47

behavior, but he agrees to bring some

12:49

of them in to see if there's

12:51

a biological reason for what's happening with

12:53

them. At last, an image

12:55

of Earth appears on the viewscreen just after

12:57

Seven is called to the bridge. The

13:00

rest of the crew look on in awe,

13:02

making plans for their arrival at Starfleet headquarters.

13:06

Act Two. Determined to uncover

13:08

the truth, Seven performs gravimetric scans

13:10

and discovers a hidden ship, revealing

13:13

a gruff old pilot warning her that

13:15

they are being deceived. When

13:18

power is cut to the lab,

13:20

Tuvok enters and announces that power

13:22

has temporarily been rerouted. Furthermore,

13:24

he sees no record of contact with

13:26

an alien vessel, and guess what? Access

13:29

to the astrometrics lab is suspended.

13:32

Seven and Naomi Wildman seem to

13:34

be the only unaffected crew members.

13:37

Neither of them has a desire to return

13:39

to Earth, and both realize something is very

13:41

wrong with the rest of the crew. Seven

13:44

returns to Sickbay to get support

13:46

from the doctor, only to find

13:48

him taken offline to prevent interference

13:50

from the wormhole. As

13:53

the crew prepare to enter the wormhole,

13:55

Jokote enters set Seven, and explains that

13:57

Starfleet has ordered her to have her

13:59

Borg implant deactivated, you know,

14:02

for protection since the board could pick

14:04

up her transceiver. She objects,

14:06

but Chakotay says she's in

14:08

good hands and resistance is

14:11

futile. Act

14:13

three, excitement on the bridge escalates

14:15

while Chakotay escorts seven to the

14:17

cargo bay, intending to place her

14:20

in stasis. But seven manages to

14:22

outwit him and the security detail,

14:24

erecting a force field so she

14:26

can transport to engineering. Heavily

14:29

armed, seven then renders the engineering

14:31

crew unconscious and sets up another

14:33

force field. Janeway has

14:35

the last word, though, as it were,

14:38

sending an EM surge through the console

14:40

and knocking seven out. As

14:42

Voyager enters a wormhole, actually the

14:45

creepy alien entity, the bridge crew

14:47

only see that they are entering

14:49

a beautiful, glowing white wormhole, leading

14:52

them to Earth. Act

14:55

four, the further they

14:57

venture into the alien slash

14:59

wormhole, the crew are rendered

15:01

unconscious, lost in dreams of

15:03

their desires. Neelix, the ambassador,

15:05

visions of Earth, Tuvok reunited

15:07

with his wife. Naomi,

15:09

frightened and alone, wanders through the

15:11

sleeping crew to find seven and

15:14

helps her regain consciousness. Together,

15:16

they discover that the ship is

15:18

being digested. Seven

15:21

scans for the alien vessel again

15:23

and contacts its pilot, Katai, who

15:25

explains that the entity uses telepathic

15:28

illusions to lure ships into its

15:30

maw. The anomaly, the

15:32

creature, consumes everything it

15:35

can, organic matter, entire

15:37

starships, even. Katai, who

15:39

has been hunting the creature for 40 years,

15:42

explains that just the other day, he

15:44

had devised a plan to fly into

15:46

a vulnerable part and detonate his ship,

15:49

but the creature fooled him again and

15:51

led him into its digestive system. While

15:54

seven is intent on a plan of

15:56

escape, Katai insists that the only way

15:58

out is to destroy the the creature

16:00

from within. Act 5. First

16:03

stop, Sickbay, where Seven wakes up the doctor.

16:06

He's confused, last he remembers Paris was

16:09

talking about a wormhole and then he

16:11

was taken offline. But he

16:13

did notice heightened dopamine levels in the

16:15

crew members he examined before going offline.

16:18

Katai explains what's going on, corroborated by

16:20

Seven, and says he'll need to see

16:23

the ship's weapons manifest. Seven

16:25

asks Katai to dig up any anatomical scans

16:27

he has of the creature while the doctor

16:30

tries to wake the crew. He

16:32

starts with Balana, using a cortical inhibitor

16:34

to break the creature's telepathic hold, but

16:37

yeah that's not working at all, she's

16:40

too deep in an illusion of seeing

16:42

her old Maiki friends. Later,

16:44

Katai's hunting through Voyager's weapons manifest

16:47

for something to take down the

16:49

beast and shares a bit of

16:51

his tragic backstory. Katai's family

16:53

and thousands of others were lured by

16:55

the creature to what they thought was

16:58

a paradise planet, only to be devoured.

17:01

Katai finds potential weapon, a

17:03

class 9 photon torpedo, but

17:06

the doctor suggests a less

17:08

deadly plan – make Voyager

17:10

taste bad. Seven

17:12

and Katai agree and come up

17:14

with a scheme to vent antimatter

17:16

from Voyager's warp core while Katai

17:18

fires his tetreon-based weapons at it,

17:20

creating a bad stomach ache for

17:22

the creature. Katai heads

17:25

back to his ship and the

17:27

doctor vents the antimatter. Katai fires

17:29

and boom, the creature starts to

17:31

heave, spitting them out. Or

17:33

so it seems. But something

17:35

doesn't add up, and the doctor's

17:37

suspicions are confirmed when Katai calls

17:39

still stuck inside the creature. One

17:42

person realizes they were tricked again and

17:44

orders a second discharge. This time, it

17:47

works and they are free. With

17:50

the creature not that far behind, they make a

17:52

speedy getaway. Seven offers to

17:54

help repair Katai's ship, but he insists that

17:56

they focus on getting home. Once

17:59

out of range, the creature is able to get away. Drew wakes up, confused

18:01

to find themselves still in the Delta

18:03

Quadrant. Janeway's ready to investigate

18:05

the wormhole that tricked them, but of

18:07

course, there's nothing there. Seven

18:10

promises a full report in the

18:12

morning, and heads off for a

18:14

much-needed regeneration. The next

18:16

day, Seven and Naomi bond over

18:19

studying Earth and astrometrics. They

18:21

might not find it interesting now, but

18:23

they share a hopeful moment, looking forward

18:25

to seeing it for real someday. Meanwhile,

18:28

Katai makes repairs on his ship

18:31

and sets a course for another round

18:33

with the creature. The

18:35

end. That is so well

18:37

done. I feel like I watched

18:39

it a third time. Wow, holy

18:42

crap. That's great. I'm not

18:44

complaining. I'm not complaining. Well, thank you. So

18:46

I don't know that we mentioned this yet.

18:48

I have never seen up until now an

18:50

episode of Voyager. And

18:53

I genuinely think if you didn't start

18:55

from the beginning, like me, this is

18:57

the perfect episode.

18:59

Great. So, okay, that bears

19:01

a little explanation here for our audience,

19:04

and maybe didn't catch it at the beginning. You

19:06

have watched a lot of Star Trek,

19:08

just not Voyager. So you know Star

19:11

Trek very well. And there are

19:13

legit a lot of great podcasts out there

19:15

that have this premise of we have a

19:17

total newcomer who will watch Star Trek for

19:19

the first time, but you, I just, you

19:21

know, will cover the ins and outs as

19:23

we go along. You

19:25

having never seen an episode of Star Trek from the

19:28

beginning of this one, you

19:30

figured it out. I mean, you get

19:32

who the characters are, you get the relationships. What

19:34

better way than to find out what their

19:36

wants are? Ah, ha. Right

19:39

off the bat. Yeah. And I

19:41

mean, there was a couple of things that

19:43

I was super surprised about. I didn't realize

19:45

that Seven of Nine is as analytical and

19:47

cold. I didn't know how much of the

19:49

Borg was left behind. So it

19:51

really, it really took me surprised, surprised, but I

19:54

also really liked it. It also doubly surprised me

19:56

because I was like, then you also might have

19:58

a Vulcan. So

20:00

why do you need two really logical, but I

20:02

guess you're getting it from two sides, which I

20:04

love, I love that they weren't afraid to

20:07

do that. I think the only person, I

20:10

ended up watching a little bit of

20:12

the pilot, I sort of understand who

20:14

were the McKee and Chakotay

20:17

and Tubac and all them were like,

20:19

basically rebels or whatever. And

20:23

again, I know some of this stuff because of TNG,

20:25

right? Like I know a little bit of what's going

20:27

on with the Cardassians and all those things. I

20:30

just don't know how they get onto the Delta Quadrant. But

20:33

what wonderful writing where all you

20:35

need to see is Jane May

20:37

going, Mark's written off the engagement.

20:39

I like, you know what she wants.

20:42

That's it? That's it, literally in one

20:44

sentence, you get where she's coming

20:46

from, what her desire is,

20:48

why this is good news. I

20:51

love this kind of writing where,

20:53

to me, it's the sweet spot.

20:55

And you can look at old Trek, TOS,

20:58

TNG, at least for the first

21:00

couple of seasons, where it's

21:03

very episodic and almost an anthology-like

21:05

show. We just have this science

21:07

fiction format where we can plug

21:10

in different types of storytelling, as

21:13

opposed to what we got in the modern era. We,

21:15

of course, recording this in 2024, where

21:18

everything is super serialized. And

21:21

to me, I feel like we're

21:23

kind of in this sweet spot for what I

21:25

like, which is you've got character

21:27

growth, you've got character arcs that can be

21:29

informed one way or the other, but then

21:31

you take an episode like this and it

21:33

just hangs on its own. And you go

21:35

like, yeah, I get it, beginning to end,

21:37

I totally get it. But

21:39

because you're in, you

21:41

know how much going

21:43

to earth means to them. And

21:46

this is something that Mike and I talk about

21:48

on the Orville podcast is, Seth

21:51

doesn't spend a lot of time on, looking

21:53

at me on the captain, and I'm the

21:55

big guy making all the decisions. He does

21:57

this formula perfectly, where you... watching

22:00

episode you get to learn something about this

22:02

character. You watch another episode you learn about

22:04

the first officer. So this one

22:06

was just great because it was while it

22:08

was a seven of nine bottle episode I

22:10

got to know every single person's wants and

22:12

I and I found myself just as surprised

22:14

as I was the day I watched TNG

22:16

for the first time. I loved

22:18

it. I was surprised how much I

22:20

loved it. Perfect. Alright well let's

22:22

go through kind of bit by bit,

22:25

act by act. I have to ask

22:27

you about the the teaser. Okay. Because

22:30

there's something weird about Voyager the more of

22:32

Voyager you watch you'll notice this it's like

22:34

a competition to have the shortest least

22:37

dialogue teaser that you can

22:39

possibly get. Interesting. This one

22:41

and I love it where we get

22:43

one that doesn't have our hero characters

22:45

that doesn't have Voyager and you just

22:47

you get what you need right away.

22:49

Did it? You could imagine how confused

22:51

I was. I think that was partly

22:55

the intention. Well I was

22:58

like who is this guy? Is this a bad baddie

23:00

we've dealt with? Is he on the ship? I

23:02

wasn't sure. Right right right. So but yeah you

23:05

just get exactly what you need a little bit

23:07

in the top. Now what do you think about

23:09

having a kid on board because it is

23:12

also a little bit of a thing out

23:14

of step to have this opening

23:16

scene where you've got these three

23:18

important characters on a shuttle out

23:20

doing a thing but there's

23:23

a kid aboard. Now you know that you

23:25

know Will took a lot of heat for

23:27

being the kid quote unquote on TNG. Robbed

23:30

a lot of people the wrong way but I

23:33

don't know maybe I feel like either Naomi

23:35

is better written or there's something a

23:37

little more realistic that she's younger but

23:39

she wants to hang with the adults

23:41

and push the buttons. So I was

23:43

really confused as to whether or not

23:45

like she was a Wesley Crusher and

23:47

eventually got is she an ensign? Is

23:49

she? You know actually you know

23:52

is it interview with a vampire where she's actually

23:54

700 years old but she's

23:56

in a child's body. She's also pretty

23:58

worldly. just

24:00

like, all right, come along, you know. Yeah.

24:03

But it actually felt like

24:05

an apology or like,

24:07

hey, guys, it felt like

24:09

an apology to Wesley, like going, hey, we

24:11

really messed up with you. Let's just try

24:14

this again. Let's just put it

24:16

this way. It didn't bother me. I think what

24:18

bothered me more was that, hey, let's make her

24:20

an alien. Let's put things down the ridge of

24:22

her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show

24:24

me in a different way. I don't know. This

24:26

was just that being said, you

24:28

forget about it. She's adorable. There's a

24:30

great moment in Family Guy where

24:33

they reference, oh,

24:35

look, a kid actor, the most distracting part of

24:37

anything I ever watched with kids today. Because

24:40

at any point, you really are watching

24:42

it going, A, you're too good, and

24:44

that's creepy. Or B, you're awful, and

24:46

this is uncomfortable. You're always looking for

24:49

the breaking of the fourth wall with

24:51

a kid in it. She's

24:53

not bad, though. She's really charming. Yeah, no.

24:55

I feel like there's neither too much

24:57

nor too little of

25:00

her. Because, of course, you don't

25:02

know this. Samantha Wildman, her mother, was

25:04

actually introduced way back in season

25:07

one. But now we don't see her

25:09

at all. And at least they

25:11

name checked her. Tom says something

25:13

about her, but I didn't wish. She's an orphan

25:15

or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I

25:17

love her relationship with Seven. But

25:21

I wish that her actual mom

25:23

was still somewhere to be seen.

25:25

I thought that was weird, too. I've

25:27

had a feeling that I was

25:29

missing it, because it wasn't on this episode.

25:31

But I want to see

25:34

what role the mom plays and why she's

25:36

so interested in it. I

25:38

guess that's a good that they're like, this

25:40

character is so interesting we want to know more. But I'm

25:42

with you that I was like, well, let

25:45

me just see the mom. Why is this kid going off

25:47

with these people? I

25:49

was so really confused. Disney gets criticism for

25:51

it. Star Trek, I think, should get more

25:53

criticism for it, which is this thing about

25:56

orphans. And it's sort of like, OK, even

25:58

if they don't start out as orphans. by

26:00

God, we're going to make them an orphan

26:02

somehow. And here they did it by just

26:04

ignoring the Samantha Wildman exists.

26:07

From the acting perspective, the

26:09

actor's, the active man of

26:11

the Wildman is so mad. She should be,

26:13

she should be, just me. She's right there.

26:15

Yeah. Hey. Now

26:18

this of course is your first real

26:20

exposure to Seven of Nine as a

26:22

presence, as a character. And you

26:25

know, even if you didn't get what you

26:27

needed from her being on the shuttle, I

26:29

love her in astrometrics because I love because

26:31

she's just walk in, not say

26:33

a word. And you know that she thinks everybody else

26:35

in there is an idiot. Wow.

26:38

I mean, she, she must be able

26:40

to sense that

26:42

everyone's like just completely disregarding

26:45

common sense. Is that,

26:47

I just love that she's that competent

26:49

that like, first of all,

26:51

a good, a good Star Trek crew,

26:53

a good crew are people who are

26:55

good at their jobs. And you

26:58

trust that they are, but she's looking

27:00

at all of them like, you're

27:02

wrong. You're wrong. Why are you wrong? But

27:04

I love that they're like, well, go check for yourself. Wonderful.

27:08

Yeah. So what is astrometrics though?

27:10

You got to make me hip

27:12

to this term. Yeah. Well, they

27:14

created it for Voyager's fourth season.

27:16

They created it as kind of

27:18

a place to fit Seven's abilities

27:20

because she comes to Voyager with

27:23

all this Borg knowledge, Borg technology.

27:25

Hey, I can make your trip

27:27

faster and better. Well, she wasn't,

27:29

you know, wasn't totally voluntary. I

27:31

would say for sure. Go back

27:34

and watch her whole arc up until

27:36

now where she's at the end of

27:38

season three, beginning of season one, because

27:40

it's rough. It's rocky because she is

27:42

ripped from the only reality that she

27:45

has known. But astrometrics is

27:47

this leap forward, like the super advanced

27:49

science lab that obviously no other ship

27:51

in Starfleet is going to have. And

27:54

it's really her domain. Got

27:56

it. Yeah. I mean, I truly love that she

27:58

just from. like from the

28:01

bat was like, it's infinitesimal that

28:03

this is happening. I mean, I

28:05

just recently learned of a woman

28:08

that was finally pardoned because

28:10

she, this is horrible, it's a horrible

28:12

story, poor woman, she had two different

28:15

babies die of sudden death. Oh,

28:17

sudden infant death syndrome, right? Yeah.

28:20

And because the second one died,

28:22

they got the math wrong in

28:24

the courtroom and they thought, of

28:27

course that this woman has killed

28:29

the babies. Oh no. And they

28:31

basically did the odds of that

28:33

happening and she was sentenced because

28:35

the way that the prosecution framed

28:38

it, it made it sound like the math was

28:40

right, that it was impossible for this to have

28:42

happened. She was finally released after 10 years

28:44

or something. Oh my God. Because they got

28:46

the math wrong. Yeah. So like

28:49

even from a logic standpoint, I have

28:51

reason to bring it up from a

28:53

logic standpoint, when she's saying that she

28:55

knows that. Yes, yes, yes. And they

28:57

shouldn't be, there shouldn't be a wormhole

29:00

here and no one's listening to, I

29:02

love that immediate knowledge. And

29:04

that was really just overall, this

29:06

episode's really enjoyable from like how

29:09

badass she is. I know her and I supposed to curse,

29:11

but that's the one I'm going to get in. It's okay.

29:14

We can slip that one in. Also

29:16

very easy to break into the captain's

29:18

logs, very impressed with her ability. I

29:20

love the again,

29:23

it's something that only her character can get

29:25

away with, where you hear this response, the

29:27

error come from the computer. And instead of

29:29

it stopping her at all, she just walks

29:31

her to a panel, rips it off. Okay,

29:33

do it again. Could have done this at

29:35

any time. So if you're telling me that

29:37

she was in duress, like trying to be

29:39

put on this ship in the first place,

29:41

she could have undermined

29:43

this whole crew at any time. And Maisles

29:45

is just like, yeah, fine. We'll use the

29:48

log. Yeah, there's

29:50

a moment where Neelix approaches her in

29:52

the hall and says, I have a

29:54

letter for Annika Hansen. Now that is

29:56

her pre Borg name and I didn't

29:58

catch. that the first time. I didn't

30:00

understand what it was about. Yeah. And

30:02

I wanted to bring it up here

30:04

because my note, my question to the

30:06

audience here is did seven just get

30:08

dead named? And I yeah,

30:13

because that is a thing we rarely

30:15

ever jumped the timeline and mission log

30:18

we have not gotten around to Star

30:20

Trek Picard yet. But this is, you

30:22

know, obviously a character who comes back

30:24

and that becomes a thing in

30:26

that series. Her previous life.

30:29

Yeah. Yeah. But, but

30:32

I think this might actually be

30:34

one of those places where it

30:36

passes only because like I'm not

30:39

advocating saying that it is the right thing

30:41

to do to dead name her. However, so

30:45

far, Voyager has only had one contact

30:47

with the Alpha quadrant. And that was

30:49

when the doctor you have not seen

30:52

this, but the doctor in an episode

30:54

called message in a bottle is sent

30:56

through a communications array has contact with

30:59

a Federation ship, but not

31:01

for very long. There's a whole other situation there

31:03

that he's got to deal with. I don't know

31:05

that he would have had the time to explain

31:07

everything that's been going on with

31:09

Voyager. And even

31:12

if he had, I don't know

31:14

that that specific information would have

31:16

gotten back in detail in great

31:19

detail to the potential

31:21

relatives of seven

31:23

of nine formerly on a cahansa. Right,

31:26

right. Even then, even then, this

31:29

is all fake. Because this

31:32

is just delusions sent through

31:34

by the creature. Right.

31:36

So it's not necessarily basing it on what

31:38

would actually have come from the Alpha quadrant.

31:40

So maybe that is a tip off again

31:42

to her to say, Oh, no, no, this

31:44

is Yeah, we're

31:46

you're you're doing a lot

31:49

of heavy lifting and filling in the blanks.

31:51

But I would normally say that to somebody

31:53

who's like trying to justify something. I think

31:55

we're seeing her do we're

31:57

not seeing her connect the dots. Yeah, but

31:59

I think you're right. Because

32:01

as we go through and when we go

32:03

through each act, she's actually

32:06

really being abused by this thing. Oh

32:09

yeah. This is the first abuse.

32:11

So if you want to, you can

32:13

say, yeah, actually, he's

32:16

trying, the whatever, okay, and whether we've decided, I

32:18

don't know if we're going to decide whether this

32:20

is actually sentient, whether it's worth deciding it or

32:22

not. But it's

32:24

trying to pull, it's trying to do whatever it

32:26

can to get it to work for her, right?

32:29

And it thinks that this is going to work,

32:31

but it's actually, it's a trigger and

32:33

it's an abuse. So that probably is

32:35

a good sign. Again,

32:37

let's not forget, she doesn't want to go

32:39

to earth. And even Janeway

32:42

says it, which is abusive also? Like,

32:45

oh, your feelings, they don't matter here.

32:48

That should be a tip off to me

32:50

that someone that I've learned to respect, I

32:52

would hope, I would assume at this point,

32:54

she respects Janeway. Yeah. Goes, your

32:56

feelings don't really matter. I'm just going to

32:58

dismiss them. You know, that's a tip off.

33:00

I think that's tip off number one. Yeah.

33:03

It was for the audience, but dead naming,

33:05

that's abusive. So yeah, you're really right to

33:07

point that out there. Whatever

33:09

Neelik says too about him becoming an

33:11

ambassador, he says seven words that don't

33:14

make sense to me. I'm going to

33:16

be the ambassador of Jolly Town. And

33:19

I just know that the truth is no one's going

33:21

to make him an ambassador. I don't think he can

33:23

be. I'm good with quadrupeds.

33:25

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. That's

33:28

her next tip off. Like, I don't

33:30

think so. That's probably not the case.

33:34

So this is good though, that we see the

33:36

two logic beings going after each other. I

33:39

really liked that scene because I thought she

33:41

was going to get through to him. Yeah.

33:44

I want more of them. Just overall

33:47

in Voyager, I want more of them

33:49

together because look, Tuvok is

33:51

full Vulcan. Right. He's not Spock

33:53

here dealing with the human side.

33:56

Seven part Borg part

33:58

human. dealing with a

34:01

whole other mess of issues and I

34:03

always figure that if if anybody

34:06

has the potential to

34:08

outsmart one or the other

34:10

it's going to be seven versus two vok

34:12

you know. And I want to watch that

34:15

go head-to-head all day you know it should

34:17

create AI simulations of them and just have

34:19

them debate. Just let them fight it out.

34:21

This is so good and I do think

34:24

she almost got him but like he he

34:27

was he was bought in at that

34:29

point. I also really love every time

34:31

every single time Seven of Nine says

34:33

Naomi Wildman. It's just such a such a

34:35

wonderful delivery and it's such great name and

34:37

I really didn't know I mean you can't

34:40

tell me Jerry right and is it the

34:42

most beautiful person on the planet and this

34:44

outfit isn't insane whatever. It's like I it's

34:46

actually I feel so bad that she has

34:48

to be in this but when your body

34:50

looks like that under duress I don't know

34:53

because I remember the TNG ladies complaining about

34:55

it right like how painful it was but

34:57

like this would to fit

34:59

into them and they are the girdles

35:01

and stuff. Yeah she looks great. She's

35:03

great and then she's talking like this

35:05

and spewing knowledge I'm all in. It's

35:08

amazing. Yeah there is so much to be

35:10

debated and discussed and picked apart you know

35:12

25 years later about

35:15

Seven of Nine but

35:17

at the end of the day I will say

35:19

she looks amazing and she

35:23

is also one of the most fascinating rich

35:25

characters that Star Trek has ever come

35:28

up with and and played perfectly.

35:30

I cannot think of another

35:32

person who could play that quite the

35:34

way she did. Yeah it's a choice

35:36

it's got to be hard to play

35:39

it but but you can tell especially

35:41

throughout this episode when she's kind

35:43

of just prying or just trying to get

35:45

someone to see something you can tell when

35:47

she's pissed and it's not but it's like

35:50

it's nuanced and so it is really really

35:52

good for her to get this role because

35:54

this is not an easy role. So another

35:56

thing that really set off alarm bills for

35:58

me is how Chakotay grabs

36:00

seven of nine. Yeah. Yeah.

36:03

It's ice cold when he says resistance

36:06

is futile. It's actually like

36:08

that's just like out and out antagonism

36:10

by the entity. But the

36:12

way he grabs her arm, I really

36:14

hope it was directed that way because

36:16

that's very much abusive possessive. I think

36:18

well, it should make us uncomfortable. Like

36:20

it's not just oh, they're trapped in

36:22

a delusion. It's like oh, no, no,

36:24

they are completely lost to the

36:26

extent that they would hurt one another to get

36:29

what they want. You know, that's

36:31

what it has to be, right? I guess

36:33

that's the case. Yeah. So by that point,

36:35

I realized because I had to watch this

36:37

twice. Yeah, the dead naming and

36:39

then the grabbing and then the triggering here

36:42

is very bad. Oh,

36:44

yeah. And gaslighting. It's all very bad

36:47

for the in terms of what she's experiencing

36:50

not in terms of the writing. The story

36:52

is is is good. Yeah. Yeah. Now

36:54

you haven't seen the episode

36:56

before but this is the return

36:59

of Naomi Wildman's macrocephalic flotter

37:01

doll. The little blue guy. Yeah.

37:03

Yeah. Well, flotter is a

37:05

character from a twenty third

37:07

maybe and definitely into the twenty

37:10

fourth century children's like holodeck

37:12

novel story in a

37:14

previous episode. Harry Kim actually replicates

37:16

a flotter doll and I'm like,

37:18

that's great. You made this flotter

37:20

doll with just a gigantic head.

37:22

So you know, it looked like

37:24

it was from the twenty fourth

37:26

century. So whenever she was holding,

37:28

I was like, that makes sense.

37:30

That makes it spacey. But you

37:32

put a blue hat on it

37:34

and holographic rainbow outfit and it's

37:36

it's a space doll. Now, I

37:38

mean, I'm surprised it didn't have

37:40

commercial success in our day and

37:42

age. I feel like that's amazing

37:45

merch. Yeah. I

37:47

just somebody probably has met this point.

37:49

Hopefully, let's crochet it. Right. Like make

37:51

a crochet version of it. Yeah. I

37:54

was surprised how close they were to

37:56

the wormhole because like two thousand kilometers

37:58

in a star-shaped. isn't that far, right?

38:01

No, it's super close. So they must

38:03

have been stopping every time 7 of

38:05

9 is swarding

38:08

them, right? Or I don't understand how that

38:10

works out. Or are they

38:12

just in thrusters

38:14

or? Maybe.

38:17

I just was confused at how close we

38:19

were to this wormhole. Well, and early on,

38:21

she says something about it's 300,000 kilometers away,

38:23

but it should have been picked

38:26

up on scans by them. Which I love that. Yeah, so

38:28

even the 300,000 was close enough to them from

38:34

their understanding of the space. So 2000 is

38:36

like super close. Yeah. I just meant that

38:38

like they should have been sucked up. You

38:40

know, I have a hard time where it's

38:42

like, we've got three minutes to disarm the

38:44

bomb and you're watching 20 minutes of sequins

38:47

coming out. Right. They should have been in

38:49

there and eaten a long time ago. That's

38:51

all. But it makes sense though, she's like

38:53

thwarting them too. Yeah.

38:55

Let's see, I really like the check's

38:58

position of like weird ethereal dream stuff

39:00

and then scary alien digestive tracked outside

39:02

the window. It

39:05

is so good. Yeah. And then you

39:07

see like the sequence where, you know,

39:09

you see Tuvok like, you

39:11

know, making finger love to his wife and

39:13

then but he's actually on the floor,

39:15

you know. It's scary. Yeah,

39:18

it's creepy wonderful. They are taking their time when

39:21

I like when a TV show goes, we're

39:23

just going to show you and you're experiencing

39:25

it. Yeah, this is what they're going through.

39:28

I did expect though that when Janeway is

39:30

looking at the monitor that Mark's face would

39:32

just be right there. I just thought. I

39:34

would have loved that. Right. Have

39:37

we ever seen Mark? Is do we

39:39

know who Mark is? I think, yeah,

39:41

I mean, he has been referenced since the

39:43

beginning, not that much, but he has been

39:45

referenced and I

39:47

believe that we will see him later. I

39:50

haven't watched ahead but yeah, but he is, yeah,

39:53

he is a known entity and we

39:55

absolutely should have seen him there. You

39:58

got, you know, a lot to be said about.

40:01

good Naomi Wildman is in this light having agency

40:03

and insisting to be a part of this. There's

40:05

a shot here that I want to point out because

40:07

it probably wouldn't mean as much to you, but maybe

40:10

the rest of our audience will know. There's

40:12

a scene where seven is

40:14

carrying Naomi and they're walking

40:16

down a curved corridor past windows

40:18

that are looking out into

40:20

the digestive tract of the

40:22

creature. I

40:25

don't think we've ever seen another

40:27

corridor shot on Voyager that has

40:29

windows. It's a weird

40:31

shot. Most of the time the corridors are

40:33

all interior because it's expensive to put something

40:36

on the other side of the windows. And

40:38

I wonder if that was a redress of

40:40

the mess hall set because there are windows

40:43

on the other side. Whatever

40:45

it was, it was very cool and

40:47

very rare for a show like this.

40:49

But you bring up a good point

40:51

to have them round the corner there

40:53

makes us believe that they are on

40:56

the exterior of the ship. Yeah. Yeah.

40:58

Which would make sense. Yeah. Yeah.

41:02

That's cool. That looked really, really

41:04

good. I love some of the deliveries. Seven

41:06

of nine can just, you know, she and

41:09

the doctor always deliver dialogue beautifully. So just

41:11

telling Katai, decide now. You know

41:13

about whether or not he's going to beam over.

41:16

Terrific. I love that

41:18

kind of decisiveness out of anybody, but especially

41:20

a woman. But like if you just

41:22

got to take control of the situation and yeah,

41:25

you can't be in her logic here. It's fantastic.

41:27

Yeah. Yeah. I

41:29

love it. I think the doctor says slow

41:31

down twice in this. Slow down. I

41:34

just like, he's been out of it.

41:36

AI. He has a million, like he

41:39

can catch up quickly and he's telling

41:41

her slow down. This is what I

41:43

knew first. Right. Amazing.

41:46

So good. Speaking of the doctor,

41:48

again, just great dialogue that is just

41:50

hand tailored for him. Stuff like this

41:53

is sick bait, not an arsenal. Wonderful.

41:56

Amazing TOS stuff here. Yes. with

42:00

referencing Katai or talking to Katai, I'm

42:02

a doctor not a dragon slayer. Yes.

42:06

Fantastic. So tell me though, is it

42:08

a running joke that

42:11

when the EMH materializes that he's

42:13

facing not the direction of the

42:15

person that has called him in?

42:17

Yeah, it kind of is. It's like

42:19

somebody walks into sickbay and when he materializes

42:21

with the first time he's usually in the

42:24

other side of that little office, it's great.

42:26

It's great. I love it. Even if yeah,

42:28

if they had talked about it, at least

42:30

they stuck with it as a gag. Oh,

42:33

it's subtle because you don't see him like, like

42:36

do a double check to find out where they

42:38

are. But like you'd think with all this technology,

42:40

he would be able to sense where the voice

42:43

is coming from and materialize. Just show

42:45

up in your face. It's

42:47

very good. Were you fooled by the

42:50

fake out that the

42:52

initial blast worked for me?

42:54

Yeah, it did. I should have known

42:56

better knowing Trek as well as I

42:59

do because they did say we're

43:01

spit out so far. It did

43:03

get me. I believed it for

43:05

a second except I was surprised that

43:07

we didn't see it happen. So

43:10

when they just said it like, oh, we've been

43:13

thrown clear of the creature. I was like, okay,

43:16

fine. But why didn't you show that

43:18

because it is Star Trek? 100%.

43:22

I think the way I was thinking about it is

43:24

like this probably happened. There's going to be another complication.

43:26

I knew we were out of the woods. But I

43:28

have no reason not to believe it. But it was

43:30

a good fake out. Let's just put it that way.

43:32

It really was a good fake out. And

43:34

at long last, I love the captain's

43:36

log where Janeway says that they have

43:38

put up the warning beacons because since

43:42

I swear since mission log began with

43:45

the first visit to a dangerous planet,

43:47

like, oh, I don't know, Talos IV

43:50

where the Talosians will suck you in

43:52

with their, hey, here's a good parallel

43:54

with the telepathic

43:57

illusions to lure you in.

44:00

said put up the orange safety

44:02

cones around this planet so nobody

44:04

else goes there. That's

44:06

what Ching Wei did in this episode. She's

44:08

a smart person, but don't

44:10

the Delosians like basically have like

44:13

incredible tell... Like didn't the In

44:15

Discovery, they can just basically make

44:19

anyone believe anything from millions of miles

44:21

away? Absolutely, yeah, so too bad. It

44:23

wouldn't work anyway. But no, they

44:25

had to do that. I'm glad

44:27

they did. Because it's the

44:29

least they could do. I know someone's gonna blow

44:32

past the buoy. Of course they will. Right. They

44:35

do put up something like that in TOS though. I

44:37

feel like it does happen once. Yeah,

44:40

they got to put up warnings around

44:42

so many planets. That's

44:44

also true. They just... Like

44:46

our part of the galaxy is just full

44:48

of orange safety cones. This

44:51

really is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the

44:53

Galaxy. Really is. I

44:55

love that. So many fun things in this

44:57

episode though. And just really good drama. Yeah.

45:05

If you're having a dream about people being

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nice to you, in soft focus, I have

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missionlog. So

48:30

in the last segment I mentioned

48:32

definitely a TOS parallel with the

48:34

Talosians doing their telepathic trick to

48:37

lure people in, not to eat

48:39

them that we know of, you

48:41

know, just gonna say, but there's

48:44

something that in this episode it

48:47

reminded me of a lot of

48:49

other science fiction or scenes from

48:51

other times. I mean look there's

48:53

like a body snatchers vibe

48:55

here because of seven being the

48:57

only one, well along with Naomi,

48:59

not affected, you know, so like

49:01

that's a cool pretense to have.

49:04

Obviously it's a bit of a,

49:06

you know, Jonah and the whale

49:08

story here, not sci-fi, but you

49:10

know. But major thematic stuff. Yeah,

49:12

major thematic idea. I thought about

49:14

the the giant asteroid slug from

49:17

the Empire Strikes Back. Of course

49:19

they actually name-checked Ishmael and Ahab,

49:21

so we finally... You expect that

49:23

from Star Trek though, Tither, Gojo,

49:25

let's talk about D.S. Eliot. Yeah,

49:27

yeah, look, either we're doing Shakespeare

49:29

or we're doing Moby Dick or,

49:31

you know, we're gonna fit them

49:33

in there. There's so many parallels

49:36

and I just thought even the idea

49:38

of the lure was a fun premise.

49:41

I mean they talk about obviously the

49:43

pitcher plant which has, you know, some

49:45

of them do it with scent, some

49:48

would do it just with the visual

49:50

to bring in, you know, their prey.

49:52

I thought about anglerfish which are just

49:54

super cool, totally, to attract their prey.

49:57

Siren song. Yeah, of course,

49:59

just the automatically this is

50:01

such revisited territory, but

50:04

it's great. Like it is a great

50:06

thing to revisit from time to time.

50:09

Most of those things that I mentioned are,

50:11

let's say, when we're talking about

50:14

anglerfish or pitcher plants or venus

50:16

fly traps, let's say lower order

50:18

species, one might say, you know.

50:20

Sure. Okay, just kind

50:22

of putting a very general generic

50:25

term. Predator, yeah, like

50:27

an instinctual, has

50:30

evolved to be this, yes,

50:32

to do that thing. Yeah, totally.

50:34

And then Katai insists that the

50:36

creature is intelligent and I

50:38

love what he says to the doctor, smart enough to

50:40

take you offline, which was great.

50:44

Then the doctor says that he

50:46

sees no sign of sentience. It

50:48

has just evolved to have the

50:50

properties it does, the property being

50:52

the telepathic lure and then digest

50:55

whatever it brings in. So, so

50:57

let's weigh out this equation here. Katai

51:00

wants to destroy it, thinking

51:02

that it is intelligent. And

51:05

the doctor and Seven and Naomi

51:07

by extension want to save it,

51:10

thinking that it is not

51:12

intelligent. And

51:14

go. Do you

51:16

agree? Do you think that this is? I

51:18

mean, look, it is Star Trek, so I

51:21

feel like inherently in the story, there

51:23

will be this respect for quote unquote,

51:26

new life. Yeah, we don't understand it.

51:28

It isn't purposely

51:30

attacking us for who

51:32

we are. It's

51:35

just trying to survive and eat. However,

51:37

it is incredibly

51:39

dangerous to us and everything around

51:41

it. You just made, without

51:44

knowing it, the perfect argument as

51:46

to why people

51:48

in first world countries on

51:50

this planet in current 21st

51:53

century existence should

51:55

be vegetarians. You

51:57

know what? The thought definitely had occurred

51:59

to me. As somebody who is

52:01

not a vegetarian talking to somebody who is a

52:03

vegetarian. I would like to

52:05

know how please please help me expand

52:08

Upon that argument. Let me preface it.

52:10

I love meat. I miss meat I

52:12

dream about having sausage and for pseudo

52:14

I do miss it. I'm a newly

52:16

minted as of five years ago vegetarian

52:21

my pure drive for the

52:23

most part is Emotional I

52:25

have cats I couldn't imagine being in a

52:27

position. I'm fortunate enough to not have to

52:29

eat my cat for survival I know yes,

52:31

you know what I mean? Like there's certain

52:33

things that I'm realizing there's I come from

52:35

a place of privilege I also know that

52:37

some people literally can't Afford

52:40

just biologically to not have some type

52:42

of meat in their system or bone

52:45

broth or that kind of animal protein

52:47

For health I'd not one of those vegans

52:50

or people that think a is gonna tell

52:52

you you're wrong Or

52:54

be that you should change your lifestyle. I think

52:56

my life's better from being a vegetarian, but I

52:59

miss meat So I'm more of those people one

53:01

of those people who I'll be

53:03

the change as opposed to tell you how to be the

53:05

change However, one of

53:07

the most compelling arguments I've had

53:09

about you know vegetarianism is Who

53:14

are we to say we

53:16

have an understanding of how

53:18

another organism? Experiences life

53:20

and why does it then give us

53:22

the right to determine how or when

53:24

or if they should live? Right,

53:27

so like you an octopus is

53:29

tastes delicious Yeah, that is

53:31

one of the most complex organisms out there. They're

53:34

cool as hell and they're smart Scientists

53:36

universally agree. Why should we wrap it

53:38

around a stick and eat it when

53:41

the tentacles still able to go down?

53:43

Like so those are really interesting arguments.

53:45

I think also just from another standpoint

53:47

from Yes, the

53:49

world order of things is eat

53:52

organism survive Right.

53:55

That is how amoebas and single-celled

53:57

organisms grew and became complex and

53:59

yeah So I'm not

54:01

saying let's buck the whole system of,

54:04

you know, I'm not going to

54:06

tell a cheetah to not eat the gazelle.

54:09

That's not because that's also

54:11

their survival. We don't

54:13

need to eat meat for survival anymore. We're

54:16

past that part. Again, I'm

54:19

not ruling in people who

54:22

are, you know, again, need meat biologically or

54:24

it's helping them with their health or whatever.

54:26

Like my aunt does better when she eats

54:28

fish and she has MS and initially tried

54:30

a vegan diet and didn't do well for

54:32

her. So I'm so just like there are

54:34

different diets that are better for people, but

54:36

just from like a large standpoint, the meat

54:38

industry and all that. We

54:41

don't need to have that much meat. We

54:43

don't need, they're not a threat to us.

54:45

They're not, you know, knocking down your door

54:48

in the middle of the night in the

54:50

wild, West going, ah, you know, we're gonna

54:52

get you for all the buffalo you killed.

54:54

So you bring up a good point that

54:56

as Star Trekian people, the

55:00

prime directive and do no

55:02

harm, even he says do no harm. This

55:04

thing is a threat though. Well

55:07

and look, this is a thing, the

55:10

idea of not eating meat. This is

55:12

a thing that gets explored and expanded

55:14

upon in later Star Trek. In fact,

55:16

I think we are meant to infer

55:18

from a lot of characters, especially in

55:20

24th century Trek that

55:22

the thing no longer do because that,

55:25

you know, they sort of understand or

55:27

at least have a different

55:29

perspective on what

55:32

that would mean toward another

55:34

living creature. So you know, I think

55:36

what you're saying here is very much

55:38

in line with some of the underlying

55:41

ethos of Star Trek.

55:43

I also think it gets down to

55:45

this very peculiar question, which is, all

55:47

right, you have

55:49

this creature that

55:51

is, you know, thousands of

55:54

kilometers in diameter. So

55:56

huge gigantic thing. Hundreds of thousands

55:59

of years. Yeah, hundreds

56:01

of thousands of years old were able to do

56:03

a little bit of study of it, not a

56:05

tremendous amount. It's still interfering with the computers and

56:07

all of this. But the doctor has

56:09

made a determination that he doesn't see signs

56:11

of sentience. But I wonder

56:14

what that means though, because

56:16

the consciousness

56:19

is still this question. It is this

56:21

mystery. And now I, being fully the

56:23

materialist that I am, and I say,

56:25

okay, well, and I don't mean that

56:27

in terms of like being greedy, I'm

56:29

talking about in terms of physiology

56:32

of the mind and body. The

56:34

consciousness, the mind is the process

56:37

of the brain. It is the

56:39

process of the meat between my

56:41

ears, just like hunger is

56:43

the process of my digestive system.

56:46

Hunger does not exist outside

56:49

of my digestive system and

56:51

my brain's interpretation of that,

56:54

just like my consciousness, my

56:56

sentience does not exist outside

56:58

of my brain. Right. So

57:01

you're like, you're definitely in the camp of

57:03

your soul doesn't go on after. No. Yeah,

57:05

it is the process of my brain, right? The

57:08

doctor is making a very interesting determination

57:11

here just based on, okay, we're looking

57:13

at this thing. What does

57:15

that mean though? And we've only got

57:17

45 minutes in an episode to explore

57:19

all the possibilities here. But

57:22

is it just a giant digestive

57:24

tract? Is that all it is

57:26

that has somehow managed to exist

57:28

for that long? Would we look

57:30

at it or would the

57:33

doctor look at it as well, like you were saying, an

57:35

amoeba? This is just a giant space

57:38

amoeba. All it does is suck

57:40

up whatever nutrients it needs in order

57:42

to keep going. And

57:44

I wonder if you can at

57:47

any point, not you personally, but

57:49

you generally, yeah, yeah, can

57:51

get to a point to say, nope,

57:54

it's better off. Our

57:56

best course of action is to destroy

57:58

it. Yeah, I don't.

58:02

I'm going to find myself on both sides

58:04

of the argument, really, because of how dangerous

58:06

this item is. Just just

58:08

for me, because it's so big, because

58:10

we've learned from firsthand information,

58:12

it killed 300 3000 people, right? Yeah, 30,000. 30,000.

58:18

Yeah, ties. Yeah, apply. And we have no idea how

58:20

many in the last 200,000 years.

58:23

So, you know, but they do

58:25

one of the first readings shows

58:27

neural pathways. So it's interesting for

58:29

the this,

58:32

it just goes back to my

58:34

previous argument, we don't understand, our

58:37

understanding of sentience is

58:39

changing to the point now, where even

58:42

vegetarians are like, oh my God, can

58:44

I eat a carrot? Because apparently, grass

58:46

screams when you cut it. Like,

58:49

like, but there's more and more

58:51

scientists nowadays that are signing

58:53

like this decree that like, we believe

58:55

animals have souls, a lot of people

58:57

did a pretty good job of like,

58:59

disassociating going no, no animals, you

59:02

know, souls or sentience or self

59:04

awareness. Yeah,

59:06

and a lot of things get written away

59:09

with instinct. I'm almost

59:11

of the camp that I believe our inner selves

59:13

have even smaller than

59:15

Adam neutrons that actually compromise

59:17

thinking. So we don't actually

59:19

fully understand how this creature

59:21

thinks and what it acts.

59:23

It's already moving course, right?

59:25

It already knows it's under

59:27

threat. So it's like, this is bad, I'm gonna go

59:29

that direction. I will say, though,

59:31

just from like a standpoint of threat,

59:34

I think you end that thing. I

59:36

really think you take

59:38

as much data as you can. And

59:40

I think you destroy it. Because it's

59:42

actually just more,

59:45

it's more dangerous. But now I'm thinking,

59:47

if you destroy it, do you destroy

59:50

the fabric of the delta quadrant? Everything

59:52

comes in on itself? Like, do you

59:54

do that? Or you potentially destroy the

59:56

thing, the one sort of like cosmic

59:59

dust buster? out there that

1:00:01

has destroyed other more dangerous

1:00:03

things. Wow, what do you mean

1:00:05

think about that, John? Rod

1:00:08

really, because of his

1:00:10

ecological interests and his

1:00:12

activism in that area,

1:00:14

he really turned me onto the idea

1:00:17

that sharks are a critical part of

1:00:19

the ecosystem. I edited a video for

1:00:21

the Rod and Mary Foundation a long

1:00:23

time ago about how important it is

1:00:26

to protect them because

1:00:28

they are doing this massively

1:00:30

important cleanup job in the ocean.

1:00:33

And if we see them as

1:00:35

a threat, which is way overblown

1:00:37

anyway, then we are hurting ourselves

1:00:40

by decimating the shark population. It's

1:00:42

really interesting that you brought up the sharks because

1:00:44

we do view them as a predator and I

1:00:46

was thinking about them while we were talking. We

1:00:48

did the same exact thing with the wolves in

1:00:51

Yellowstone. Oh, yeah. It's really

1:00:53

a huge threat to

1:00:56

humans, maybe to your

1:00:58

livestock, but once they

1:01:00

reintroduced wolves into Yellowstone,

1:01:02

the ecological order

1:01:04

came into place. We also used to stop

1:01:07

fires in national parks and then we realized

1:01:09

that was the only way pine cones could

1:01:12

open up. So

1:01:14

now they have these controlled fires or let the fires

1:01:16

burn. So yeah, you

1:01:20

don't destroy it, I guess then, from

1:01:22

just the sheer unknown

1:01:25

element of it. Is that where you

1:01:27

think you'd lie? Maybe,

1:01:30

maybe. But at a certain point, the

1:01:32

threat becomes too much. If

1:01:34

there's ... Look, I

1:01:36

can see another version of this where

1:01:38

the Borg are on the tail of

1:01:40

Voyager and Janeway comes with a plan.

1:01:42

Like, hmm, if we get all those

1:01:44

Borg cubes to fly right into the

1:01:46

maw of that giant creature, then

1:01:49

I just save myself a lot of trouble. However,

1:01:51

if it's threatening a

1:01:54

more benign species who maybe

1:01:56

are allies, look, it's ...

1:02:00

I think the initial impulse to say this

1:02:02

is a living thing. We don't know enough

1:02:04

about it We need to figure out every

1:02:07

way that we can to

1:02:09

not harm it and then get as far away

1:02:11

as possible. I think that is the The

1:02:15

Star Trek message that yeah, we

1:02:17

have to start from anyway And

1:02:19

then if we're gonna deviate from that message We got

1:02:21

to figure out a really good reason to deviate if

1:02:23

they couldn't have gotten out of the maw If they

1:02:26

couldn't they have to figure out how to get out

1:02:28

from the inside, you know what I mean and destroy

1:02:30

it It think but if they can clear it I

1:02:33

mean it kind of makes katai insane

1:02:35

because the beginning of the episode he

1:02:37

goes into it He obviously got out

1:02:39

and now he's going back. So that's

1:02:41

also not a sane entity He's

1:02:45

a danger to himself But exactly but

1:02:47

yeah, I think if you're looking at

1:02:49

it from what we all hope to

1:02:52

Be like a Star Trek, you

1:02:55

know ish person you can't you have

1:02:57

to do your best to preserve it I think

1:02:59

that's right So

1:03:05

after all that this guy is going to fly

1:03:07

his ship back in there he really needs a

1:03:10

new hobby All right,

1:03:17

Jessica, we have survived another day in the

1:03:19

Delta quadrant here looking at the giant

1:03:21

scary creature with telepathic abilities

1:03:25

That is bliss and

1:03:27

as we do in every episode of mission log

1:03:29

We get to the end and we ask ourselves

1:03:31

a few questions We ask ourselves that the episode

1:03:33

holds up and we ask ourselves if we learned

1:03:35

something from it. What is the message? So I

1:03:38

pose it to you first does

1:03:40

this episode of Star Trek Voyager bliss

1:03:42

hold up? So as you know because

1:03:44

I did However

1:03:46

many episodes of the Oroville we didn't

1:03:48

ask this question because it's still newer

1:03:51

So I do need a better definition as

1:03:54

to what do you mean with holding up?

1:03:56

I mean that that is a purposely

1:03:59

vague question because it can mean whatever

1:04:01

you want. And you may

1:04:03

find yourself tipped one way or the other

1:04:05

thinking, you know what, this was a great

1:04:07

story that was hurt in the execution, therefore

1:04:09

it doesn't hold up for me. Or vice

1:04:11

versa. This is a

1:04:14

terrible story, but wow, I was really

1:04:16

amazed by the acting or the effects

1:04:18

or whatever. Or there

1:04:21

was so much bad dialogue

1:04:23

that I just couldn't get past that. So

1:04:27

however you want to frame it

1:04:29

is totally fair. For someone who

1:04:31

hasn't watched Annie Voyager, I'm

1:04:33

going to say absolutely because I was in and

1:04:35

it sucked me in and I was on board.

1:04:38

I think the only thing that I

1:04:40

could argue doesn't hold up that if

1:04:42

today it was made the argument, just

1:04:45

based on science and knowing how important

1:04:47

science is to Star Trek, they

1:04:49

would have a different philosophy point as to whether

1:04:52

or not this is an actual picture pod. And

1:04:55

this is like something, you know, like is

1:04:57

this actual, even if it

1:04:59

is a picture pod, there is there sentience there. So

1:05:02

that's just a thought I would have. What

1:05:04

about you? Do you think it holds up

1:05:07

in your estimation? Yeah. You

1:05:09

know, we were talking about so many parallels of this type of

1:05:11

story. And there's another one

1:05:13

that I know that everybody listening who

1:05:16

has watched all of TOS over and

1:05:18

over again is probably yelling at their

1:05:20

phones or iPods or however you're listening

1:05:22

to this, the original

1:05:24

series, the immunity syndrome in

1:05:26

which the enterprise flies into

1:05:28

a giant space amoeba. And

1:05:31

what do they do? Kirk shakes bones

1:05:33

or is it Spock that

1:05:35

he shakes antibodies? And that's how they

1:05:37

get out. Wow. So yeah, yeah, again,

1:05:40

it's a thing that has been

1:05:42

done. But when you

1:05:45

do it well, it's just fun. And

1:05:48

this episode rehashes familiar

1:05:50

ground or familiar type of storytelling,

1:05:53

but it does so to the strengths of

1:05:55

our characters. Right. And that's what's good about

1:05:58

it. And by the way, you could have

1:06:00

done this the opposite way. Meaning

1:06:02

you could have had one crew member suffering

1:06:04

from the delusion and doing everything they can

1:06:06

to sabotage things with the rest of the

1:06:08

crew and then you wonder like who's right

1:06:11

who's wrong what's going on you know you

1:06:13

could have played this out numerous ways. It's

1:06:15

almost inner light too like he's experiencing this

1:06:17

whole different world that is in a way

1:06:20

and you're

1:06:22

totally right you there

1:06:24

are no new stories but we really when we

1:06:26

like the characters and they're well-written which again I've

1:06:28

never seen an episode of Voyager I liked everyone

1:06:31

right off the bat for the most part yeah

1:06:33

then you're doing it right

1:06:35

yeah if it's interesting that's

1:06:37

the thing and I love when

1:06:39

you can let your characters not be

1:06:42

themselves but do it in a way

1:06:44

that works that doesn't seem forced so

1:06:47

when you buy the premise of the

1:06:49

telepathic effect okay cool now

1:06:52

we can let our familiar characters

1:06:54

act creepy and weird and they

1:06:56

do it wonderfully so so

1:06:59

even if there's not new ground being tread

1:07:02

this is produced very well it

1:07:04

is a it's a really good

1:07:06

showcase for the growing relationship between

1:07:08

seven and Naomi and just so

1:07:10

good together they're lovely they're absolutely

1:07:13

lovely they make one whole adult

1:07:18

well you know what that's what's so cool

1:07:20

is that seven is really a blank slate

1:07:22

with all the intelligence

1:07:25

and logic of the Borg but

1:07:27

without the human experience to grow

1:07:29

from yet so these two are

1:07:32

matched really well and plus men

1:07:34

Morgan Shepherd just chewing

1:07:36

scenery so I really enjoyed

1:07:47

it I really think it was a cool

1:07:49

episode and you know it does what

1:07:52

I said at the beginning what I like

1:07:54

to see which is you have a standalone

1:07:56

episode works totally from beginning that'll end but

1:07:59

it also lets its characters grow. Yeah. And

1:08:02

then that has payoff. So hopefully you will

1:08:04

watch more of Voyager and see kind of

1:08:06

where this fits in. But yeah. I can't

1:08:08

help myself. I'm so excited to watch more.

1:08:10

There you go. Yeah. There you go. All

1:08:13

right. So let's talk about morals, meanings,

1:08:15

messages. I mean, sometimes there's the bonk

1:08:17

bonk on the head moment. Other times

1:08:20

it's just an idea, just a thought,

1:08:22

you know? What's your idea? What did

1:08:24

you lock going? What do you think

1:08:26

it's about? I mean, look, I think

1:08:28

there are some obvious ones. It's like,

1:08:30

okay, the look before you leap, which

1:08:32

I mean, is quoted from the doctor,

1:08:34

which you could also look at as

1:08:36

trust, but verify. These are

1:08:38

all interesting, you know, these are all

1:08:40

interesting things, but then you're dealing with

1:08:42

a crew who are out of their

1:08:45

minds. So that's part of the problem

1:08:47

here. If you don't have Naomi Wildman,

1:08:49

you don't survive this. You're done. No,

1:08:51

you're done. You are done

1:08:53

if you don't have a Naomi Wildman on

1:08:55

your crew. But I wondered if you could

1:08:58

make this into more of a real

1:09:00

world thing, because of course, this is

1:09:02

a fantastical idea. Make it

1:09:05

more of a real world thing and look

1:09:07

at it as like a lesson in epistemology.

1:09:10

Define that for me. Okay. So

1:09:13

in layman's terms, epistemology

1:09:15

is looking at why

1:09:18

you believe what you believe. Oh. It's

1:09:21

not what you believe, but it's just

1:09:23

having the wherewithal to examine

1:09:26

why do I have these beliefs? How do I

1:09:28

arrive at them? Are they true? Are they not?

1:09:30

What do I do with that? And

1:09:33

I think back to a conversation that I had

1:09:35

with somebody during the

1:09:37

throes of the pandemic, and I won't re-litigate

1:09:40

that, but I think we all remember that,

1:09:43

you know, there were distinct camps of

1:09:45

people who believed one course of action

1:09:47

and another who believed another course of

1:09:50

action. And these were at odds

1:09:52

with each other. And I said to my

1:09:54

friend, you know, how do I know that

1:09:57

by believing what I believe about this? that

1:10:00

I'm not just like somebody else on

1:10:02

the other side. And she

1:10:04

said, you know, by asking that, you're

1:10:09

probably already a step ahead. I'd

1:10:11

like to believe that because I experienced much

1:10:13

the same trend. Sure,

1:10:15

you know, yeah, yeah. But had

1:10:18

this crew been at least a

1:10:21

step more in their right minds, this is

1:10:23

the process that they would need to go

1:10:25

through. They would need to, okay, I believe

1:10:27

that this wormhole does this. I believe that

1:10:29

we're getting messages from here. I believe that

1:10:31

our best course of action is to do

1:10:33

this, but why? You know, why

1:10:35

do I believe that? Do I want

1:10:38

that to be true? Or do I

1:10:40

just accept it without verifying that that

1:10:42

is the case? Now they

1:10:44

have these things that are thrown in their way

1:10:46

to throw them off course. It's not

1:10:49

fair what the creature

1:10:51

is doing. But going

1:10:53

back to Seven's journey with all of

1:10:56

this, she is challenging everybody, especially that

1:10:58

scene with Tuvok. Do

1:11:00

you feel like you

1:11:02

are experiencing a feeling

1:11:05

that is more powerful than you would

1:11:07

normally feel? And I love that, I

1:11:09

love that, love that, love that. Because

1:11:11

it is about being able to step

1:11:13

back from what you desire and examine

1:11:16

it and say, okay, I may want

1:11:18

this, but is it true?

1:11:20

Wow. And so that's

1:11:23

sort of the intellectual exercise I picked

1:11:25

up from this. I think

1:11:27

that's right. Well, no, I think I

1:11:29

just want to expand on that because

1:11:31

while I was watching the show, this

1:11:33

episode, it reminded me of something that

1:11:35

also stuck with me that emboldened me

1:11:37

to be a dissenting opinion and an

1:11:40

honest person. I've

1:11:42

gotten some feedback from people recently that

1:11:45

I'm a very honest, I'm nothing if

1:11:47

not honest. And honesty- You are, you

1:11:49

are. Honesty is different from the truth. I'm

1:11:51

aware of that, but I also try not to

1:11:54

make my truths or my honesty's

1:11:57

absolutes, just how I experience them and view

1:11:59

them. And by some random habits,

1:12:01

I couldn't tell you why I saw

1:12:03

World War Z and I didn't even

1:12:05

know it was about zombies. I really

1:12:07

did. I swear to

1:12:09

God. You saw a trailer

1:12:11

at some point, right? I don't know, John. I

1:12:14

just never being surprised that there was a zombie

1:12:16

there. But I don't know they show that there

1:12:18

were zombies in the trailer. I might be wrong

1:12:20

about that, but I have a feeling. But

1:12:22

anyway, they go to Israel. There's a wall

1:12:25

in Israel and we're not talking about Palestine.

1:12:27

I'm just talking about the movie. There is

1:12:29

what's called the 10th man rule that if

1:12:31

there are nine people in a group of

1:12:33

10 that agree on an issue, you

1:12:36

have to assign one of those

1:12:38

people to disagree so that you

1:12:40

can test that theory and make

1:12:43

basically double advocate. Yes.

1:12:45

The argument. And unfortunately,

1:12:47

she is contending with

1:12:50

just extraneous circumstances. But

1:12:52

I love your thought.

1:12:55

Like, how do we apply it to today? I'm

1:12:59

telling you, you need friends that

1:13:01

don't wholeheartedly agree with everything you

1:13:03

do, but question whether you're doing

1:13:05

something because of X or or

1:13:07

or Z, you know. Hey,

1:13:10

this old habit of yours is

1:13:12

cropping up again. Is that why? And

1:13:14

and I want those people in my

1:13:16

camp who aren't afraid to question my

1:13:19

motives or ask me if

1:13:22

I'm thinking clear headedly and I want to

1:13:24

be that friend to somebody or

1:13:26

I also want to be. In a situation

1:13:29

in a working situation

1:13:31

where someone's going to allow me to go,

1:13:33

I don't think so. Or, hey, let me

1:13:35

tell you why this sounds like a bad

1:13:38

idea. Or can we do a thought experiment

1:13:40

where this may not work as we people

1:13:43

in advertising do that? And sometimes they let bad

1:13:45

ads go because they know people are going to

1:13:47

get pissed. You know, right. Right. I just I

1:13:49

want to be surrounded by people who aren't afraid

1:13:51

to ask the hard questions as to whether something

1:13:53

is right or wrong or

1:13:55

even what right and wrong means. So that's kind

1:13:57

of what I was thinking of during this episode.

1:14:00

I love it. I love it. What a great

1:14:02

lesson to pick up from Star Trek. Mission

1:14:05

Log is produced by Roddenberry Entertainment. If

1:14:07

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1:14:09

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1:14:14

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1:14:16

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1:14:18

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1:14:20

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1:14:23

the next Mission Log, Dark Frontier. Some

1:14:31

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1:14:37

Special thanks to consulting

1:14:39

producers, Matt Esposito, Homer

1:14:41

Frizzell, Rand Hurl, Tom

1:14:43

Kozak, Julie Miller, Mike

1:14:45

Richards, Mike Shadwell, Paul

1:14:47

Shadwell, and David Takechi.

1:14:54

Just keep the telepathic picture plant in the

1:14:56

back of your mind the next time you

1:14:58

have a really good day. There's a cheerful

1:15:00

thought. And

1:15:11

transmission. This

1:15:17

is a Roddenberry Podcast. For

1:15:20

more great podcasts, visit

1:15:22

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