0:04

Welcome to the Moon Beaming

0:07

Podcast. I'm Sarah Faith Gottastiner,

0:09

an artist, author, and intuitive.

0:11

And together we'll explore life

0:14

through a creative and

0:16

spiritual lens. You'll learn

0:18

so much about mysticism,

0:20

creativity, consciousness, depth psychology,

0:22

business, and more. And

0:24

you'll get to listen

0:26

to conversations with luminaries

0:28

that you won't hear

0:30

anywhere else. With

0:32

each episode you'll receive

0:34

insights frameworks inspiration and

0:37

tools to help you

0:39

thrive and grow Hello,

0:42

and welcome back to

0:44

moonbeaming where we make

0:46

the practical magical

0:48

and the magical practical

0:51

I'm your host Sarah

0:53

Faith goddess Steener. I

0:55

hope you're doing as

0:57

well as well can

0:59

be. I am really

1:01

excited to present to

1:03

you today's episode. I

1:06

am very aware, gentle

1:08

listener, that I say this

1:10

every episode. I am well

1:12

aware that I say this

1:14

and that is literally because

1:17

I am actually literally

1:19

excited. Sometimes I

1:21

am giddy. Sometimes

1:24

I record an episode with

1:26

a guest and I

1:28

am in the moment stoked.

1:30

I'm already pre-pumped that you

1:33

are going to get to

1:35

hear it. I know I'm

1:38

a nerd. I know I'm

1:40

cringe, but listen, if you

1:43

don't have at least

1:45

some part of your life

1:47

that fills you with excitement and

1:49

joy and you just do it for

1:52

fun and you just do it because

1:54

of the process of it and the

1:56

practice of it which for me is

1:58

in part this podcast. you know,

2:00

you need to get one.

2:02

If there's nowhere in your

2:05

life where, like, as you're

2:07

doing the thing, whether it's

2:09

puzzles or crochet or whatever,

2:12

or maybe you are lucky,

2:14

like I am, and it

2:16

gets to be part of

2:18

your job, find it, find

2:21

it somewhere, because it's the

2:23

little things all threaded together

2:25

that make up an entire

2:28

life. So I was thrilled

2:30

to have today's guest on

2:32

the show and there's so

2:34

many reasons Why the first

2:37

is? Today's guest is really

2:39

doing something that I see

2:41

as the leading edge Which

2:43

will be in one to

2:46

ten years completely normal and

2:48

what I mean by this

2:50

is Today on the show

2:53

we have a somatic depth

2:55

coach who is also a

2:57

writer and a creative and

2:59

a guide and I'm sure

3:02

like many many other things

3:04

and I'll get into who

3:06

it is and and all

3:08

of that in a minute

3:11

but just just bear with

3:13

me here okay they do

3:15

something that isn't easily describeable

3:18

They're taking a mix of

3:20

modalities and perspectives and teachings

3:22

and trainings and making it

3:24

their own in the ways

3:27

that they best can do

3:29

it. And that's where I

3:31

see everything going, whether it's

3:33

in the arts or sciences

3:36

or health care in the

3:38

medical field, in agriculture. Like

3:40

you name it, you know,

3:43

the the days of this

3:45

life of oh, I'm a

3:47

licensed this and I just

3:49

do this It's not that

3:52

that's over, but we're in

3:54

this really exciting phase. I

3:56

think where folks are creating

3:58

their own modalities, they're making

4:01

modalities their own, they're adding

4:03

to it by their experiences

4:05

in the field, pun intended,

4:08

layers intended, we're here to

4:10

evolve and we're here to

4:12

grow. If I only regurgitated...

4:14

The information I learned at

4:17

school, my design school, I

4:19

got my masters in design,

4:21

I have a career as

4:23

a designer, everything that comes

4:26

out of the Moon Studio,

4:28

I designed every single thing.

4:30

I'm responsible for the look

4:33

and feel. I'm an art

4:35

director, I have a past

4:37

life as an art director.

4:39

Similarly to like intuition and

4:42

consciousness studies and spirituality, if

4:44

I just took everything I

4:46

read point value and didn't

4:49

evolve it, if I just

4:51

regurgitated it, then didn't apply

4:53

it to my life, if

4:55

I didn't utilize my experiences

4:58

and what I learned in

5:00

the literal field, pun intended,

5:02

like all realms, right? Because

5:04

that's what we do when

5:07

we're intuitive folks or spiritual

5:09

folks. If I didn't do

5:11

that. I wouldn't be being

5:14

true to myself or true

5:16

to reality because the nature

5:18

of reality is always changing.

5:20

So, the second reason why

5:23

I love today's guest and

5:25

love today's guest conversation is

5:27

that today's guest has a

5:29

background in depth psychology. I

5:32

am a huge fan of

5:34

Depp psychology. I in fact

5:36

went to school last year

5:39

to get my masters. I

5:41

thought I was going to

5:43

be a Depp psychotherapist and

5:45

I dropped out because I

5:48

realized I didn't need to

5:50

be I didn't need to

5:52

become a licensed psychotherapist. I

5:54

just loved Depp psychology and

5:57

I probably will in fact

5:59

train to become a union.

6:01

coach or a depth coach

6:04

or something of that nature

6:06

because I just love depth

6:08

psychology. I really think that's

6:10

where it's at as well

6:13

as nervous system, healing, somatics.

6:15

We've got to do depth.

6:17

We've got to do the

6:19

subconscious. We've got to do

6:22

the mind and we've got

6:24

to do the body, right?

6:26

So I am such a

6:29

nerd, any chance I get

6:31

to talk with someone about

6:33

debt psychology, I am just

6:35

like the rilled, I'm so

6:38

happy, I'm so overjoyed. I

6:40

love it, I just love

6:42

it, I can't get enough.

6:44

And so luckily, our guest

6:47

today is highly skilled, highly

6:49

trained, a deep, deep expert.

6:51

and that what she does.

6:54

I have the wonderful Antonio

6:56

Dohane on today's show today.

6:58

Antonia is a former Cirque

7:00

Dusolee acrobat turned somatic depth

7:03

coach and author of the

7:05

Weekly Substack Space Unknown. She

7:07

specializes in supporting uncommonly creative

7:10

and ambitious powerhouses to transform

7:12

the fear-driven patterns of struggle

7:14

that fueled their current success

7:16

into the freedom and ease

7:19

needed to inhabit the next

7:21

octave of their unique genius.

7:23

This was such a phenomenal

7:25

conversation. We talked about how

7:28

Antonia came to do what

7:30

she does. We talked, as

7:32

I've said, as I went

7:35

on and on a minute

7:37

ago, all about debt psychology.

7:39

We talked about the process

7:41

of change and what that

7:44

can look like, and so

7:46

much more. If you yourself

7:48

have had kind of a

7:50

myriad of experiences that have

7:53

made up your... career, you're

7:55

going to love this episode.

7:57

If you are wanting to

8:00

explore more, if you are

8:02

in fact a therapist, licensed

8:04

psychotherapist, or you know, like

8:06

a health coach, but like

8:09

you want to bring in,

8:11

you want to weave in-depth

8:13

psychology, or you want to

8:15

weave in nutrition, or you

8:18

want to weave in terro,

8:20

or whatever else it might

8:22

be, I really think you're

8:25

going to love this conversation

8:27

and be inspired by it.

8:29

If you feel like... There

8:31

are some missing components in

8:34

your integration practices and processes.

8:36

You will love this episode.

8:38

So here we go, my

8:40

conversation with the wonderful Antonia

8:43

Dohane. I

8:51

am really excited to have you

8:53

on the show today. Antonia, welcome

8:56

to Moonbeaming. Thank you. I'm so

8:58

happy to be here. I wanted

9:00

to begin with you sharing a

9:02

little bit about what your life

9:05

and what your career is centering

9:07

on presently, because you have one

9:09

of these jobs that I really

9:12

feel like is the future. of

9:14

work, of humanity, where you're not

9:16

just doing one thing, you're doing

9:18

a variety of things, you're not

9:21

only specializing in one modality, you're

9:23

weaving together all these different modalities,

9:25

like streams, like tributaries, and a

9:28

river that goes out into a

9:30

greater ocean, and that's why I'm

9:32

like super excited. You could tell

9:35

already to speak with you, so

9:37

I'd love for you to share

9:39

as much or as little as

9:41

you want about what you're doing,

9:44

what got you there, what you

9:46

love about it, all of it,

9:48

all of that. This is a

9:51

really cool question. I'll be thinking

9:53

about it in real time as

9:55

I'm answering it. Yeah, because no

9:57

one's asked me this specific question

10:00

before of what themes... my entire

10:02

life is centering on right now.

10:04

And it's an interesting time to

10:07

ask this question too, because a

10:09

lot of really big shifts are

10:11

happening in my life right now

10:13

that are kind of clarifying that

10:16

question. I think I would have

10:18

had a harder time answering it

10:20

even like three weeks ago. I'll

10:23

start with the themes and then

10:25

I'll kind of backtrack and talk

10:27

a little bit about my trajectory.

10:29

I think that feels for a

10:32

while, but I may not have

10:34

been able to articulate it. like

10:36

this before, but it really seems

10:39

to be about metabolizing energy or

10:41

recycling energy from one state to

10:43

another, and that sounds really broad.

10:45

Let me see if I can

10:48

get a little bit more specific.

10:50

I really believe that the work

10:52

of growth and healing are is

10:55

metabolizing energy that is operating in

10:57

a certain way or flowing itself

10:59

in a certain way so that

11:01

it can reorganize itself into a

11:04

new shape and to do that

11:06

requires a period of chaos and

11:08

a system that has a capacity

11:11

for chaos so that it can

11:13

be changed into a different state.

11:15

And my work as a... semantic

11:17

depth coach is to help people

11:20

build their capacity for chaos so

11:22

that they can become more powerful

11:24

creators because often they're running these

11:27

patterns or these shapes with their

11:29

energy that are may have worked

11:31

really well in the past to

11:33

help them survive but are now

11:36

constraining them and kind of imprisoning

11:38

and suffocating their creativity or their

11:40

life force in a certain way

11:43

so it's like a table what

11:45

shapes are your life asking you

11:47

to reorganize into right now? and

11:49

understanding that it will ask you

11:52

to reorganize again. The work that

11:54

I do isn't just about helping

11:56

people get results, it's about helping

11:59

people become someone who gets certain

12:01

results, or it's becoming the result.

12:03

I feel like your podcast listeners

12:06

will get that in the way

12:08

that maybe others would is. what

12:10

I just said, yeah. I think

12:12

the vast majority will understand this

12:15

on a cellular level. I think

12:17

also the vast majority of people

12:19

listening's unconscious will be able to

12:22

hear this or their body may

12:24

able to hear this or you

12:26

know an aspect of themselves. I'm

12:28

really glad you framed it in

12:31

this way because I really feel

12:33

like this is what and where.

12:35

You could call it folks in

12:38

the healing arts or folks who

12:40

do coaching or who are guides

12:42

or who are mentors, facilitators, readers,

12:44

yoga instructors, psychothers, therapists, whether they

12:47

will agree with this or not.

12:49

This is where I think we're

12:51

headed and where we have to

12:54

be headed, not only because I

12:56

think what you just said is

12:58

one of the largest promises. of

13:00

a more whole or more intact,

13:03

more integrated humanity itself, but also

13:05

what's happening on a larger level.

13:07

So I would love for you,

13:10

you've zoomed out quite a bit.

13:12

I love it. I get it.

13:14

We need it. We're here for

13:16

it. So why don't you take

13:19

us back a little bit more

13:21

and share? some aspects of either

13:23

your training or life experience or

13:26

even your facilitator experience that has

13:28

gotten you to understand that this

13:30

is what you're focusing on now

13:32

or what a lot of your

13:35

gifts are in service to you

13:37

right now. Well, I'll start by

13:39

saying that I absolutely agree. I

13:42

see that this is where we're

13:44

headed as humanity, too. We are

13:46

experiencing an enormous amount of chaos

13:48

in the systems, in our collective

13:51

systems, and it's really like, can

13:53

we individually become systems that can

13:55

recycle the centers? G that can

13:58

expand around this chaos to reorganize

14:00

it, but also can we collectively

14:02

do that and we need to

14:04

be able to, otherwise we will

14:07

either like our personal systems will

14:09

shut down or explode or our

14:11

collective systems will shut down or

14:14

explode. So yes, absolutely, we're on

14:16

the same page there. As for

14:18

my personal story and experience, I

14:20

definitely have a bit of a

14:23

winding story that in retrospect has

14:25

a lot of clear through threads.

14:27

only in retrospect, obviously. I grew

14:30

up in a really spicy household.

14:32

I wouldn't have recognized it at

14:34

the time as a child, as

14:36

you know, very few of us

14:39

do, but I grew up in

14:41

an enormously traumatic childhood, like there

14:43

was physical neglect, like emotional, physical

14:46

abuse, everything, and also, you know,

14:48

grew up within the shadow of

14:50

the new age world, so I

14:53

was very immersed in... what might

14:55

be labeled spirituality in certain communities,

14:57

but which I have, through a

14:59

huge rejection of spirituality at one

15:02

point in my life, and now

15:04

later coming back to a very

15:06

different understanding of what spirituality is.

15:09

Like, you know, I went through

15:11

this huge, huge journey with that,

15:13

but yeah, that was not what

15:15

I would call spirituality at all.

15:18

Elaborately choreographed dissociation and structural violence.

15:20

brought me to Circtus Alley. Like

15:22

I really became a living cliche

15:25

and ran away to the circus

15:27

at quite a young age and

15:29

studied at the National Circuit School

15:31

in Montreal for five years and

15:34

my first job at a school

15:36

was actually working on an international

15:38

tour with Circtus Alley. Yeah, so

15:41

I did that for a number

15:43

of years while also taking some

15:45

breaks like when we had longer

15:47

tour breaks in between I'd go

15:50

and do certain festivals all gigs

15:52

that kind of thing but mainly

15:54

my like the bulk of my

15:57

career happened with CERC and That

15:59

ended I did a cruise contract

16:01

that was supposed to be my down

16:03

payment cruise. I was going to save

16:05

as much money as possible and try

16:08

and buy my flat in London in

16:10

the UK where I was living at the

16:12

time. But then I got injured quite

16:14

badly. And again, I wouldn't have

16:16

been able to articulate it like

16:19

this at the time, but that

16:21

was really like a cosmic chiropractic

16:23

maneuver for me, bringing me back

16:25

into alignment. Like I was not actually

16:27

really... enjoying myself very much. I realized

16:29

pretty quickly that I am not someone

16:31

who can do the same show 800

16:33

times, which I did end up doing,

16:36

you know, in the end, but I

16:38

was kind of in this position where,

16:40

all right, I need to pay off

16:42

my student loans, I need to, the

16:44

insurance here is really good and it was

16:46

one of the first times in my

16:48

life that I was able to afford,

16:51

like, consistent therapy. So that was

16:53

a really meaningful and important chapter

16:55

me creatively. and as an artist. And

16:58

I do really see what I

17:00

do now as an extension of

17:02

that, even if it looks, you

17:04

know, I'm not on stage sparkly

17:06

spandex covered in cake pan makeup,

17:08

but I see them as

17:10

extensions of, you know, the oldest

17:12

job in the world, which is

17:14

the shapshifter, like the medicine person.

17:16

I will never call myself a

17:19

shaman because I haven't undergone the

17:21

real training that it takes to

17:23

earn that title. But... you know, the closest

17:25

thing that we really have in the West

17:28

to that role is modern psychotherapy and

17:30

the performing arts. So yeah, I

17:32

got injured and then a few weeks

17:34

after I moved back to Vancouver because

17:36

none of, like everyone I knew

17:38

in London were performing artists and they

17:41

were in and out of the city

17:43

constantly and I couldn't walk, like I

17:45

really needed help to do a lot of

17:47

things. So I came back to Vancouver, which

17:49

I never thought I would come back to

17:52

Vancouver. And then a couple weeks later the

17:54

pandemic hit and everyone that I worked with

17:56

on the cruise ship got stuck on the

17:58

cruise ship. It was this. dramatic turn

18:01

of events and I had already

18:03

been in a place for a

18:05

long time while I was working

18:07

as a performer where I was

18:09

trying to figure out what my

18:12

next thing was and I had

18:14

considered becoming a therapist at one

18:16

point I just it was it

18:18

was it was becoming a therapist

18:21

at one point it just it

18:23

was not the right thing for

18:25

me at that point. I applied

18:27

to Central St. Martin's which is

18:30

a famous design school. Well yeah

18:32

you probably know it and got

18:34

into their foundation program which was

18:36

really exciting but that was available

18:39

to me. Yeah, but once the

18:41

pandemic hit and everything shut down

18:43

and I lost my two sort

18:45

of I'm injured and I don't

18:47

want to think about how injured

18:50

I am so I'm going to

18:52

work really really hard to not

18:54

get bored because I just don't

18:56

know how to sit with myself

18:59

kind of jobs. I lost both

19:01

of those jobs and then it

19:03

is just a deep period of

19:05

forced introspection I think for me

19:08

as well as so many other

19:10

people and that brought me to

19:12

the idea of building business at

19:14

some point. I didn't know what

19:17

it was going to be. But

19:19

I'd taken a really intensive breathwork

19:21

training over the pandemic that happened

19:23

in three parts. It's really awkward

19:25

doing a breathwork training during a

19:28

pandemic. We really, really having to

19:30

make so many adjustments to make

19:32

sure everyone was safe. So I

19:34

explored that first as a path

19:37

for my business. You know, it

19:39

was like a, after I'd finished

19:41

all the case studies and everything,

19:43

it was like a year that

19:46

it took for me to finish

19:48

everything. And I started. doing sessions

19:50

with people, mainly like trial sessions,

19:52

and the feedback that I was

19:55

getting consistently was like, wow, the

19:57

breathwork is amazing, but what I'm

19:59

really benefiting from is the conversations

20:01

that I'm having with you before

20:03

and afterwards, like I almost wish

20:06

that we could continue those, and

20:08

would you consider working with me

20:10

as a coach? And you know,

20:12

at the time I was very

20:15

much working through my own stuff

20:17

and said sure, but like, you

20:19

know, I'm not trained and this

20:21

is at your... at your peril.

20:24

Like, I don't know if this

20:26

is really what you want. Like,

20:28

sure, sure, we can try it.

20:30

You can give like $15 an

20:33

hour, you know, just something so

20:35

incredibly low that I could wipe

20:37

my conscience clean of like, you

20:39

consented to this. Some of those

20:41

early sessions were, I remember being

20:44

so surprised by how fulfilled I

20:46

felt in offering them and how

20:48

much the person in front of

20:50

me seemed to really appreciate it

20:53

and I'd never thought of myself

20:55

as someone particularly wise in that

20:57

way before or able to offer.

20:59

any sort of wisdom to anyone

21:02

or witnessing that could have an

21:04

impact at that level. So I

21:06

decided to kind of follow that

21:08

thread because nothing else was going

21:10

on. Like all of the other

21:13

circus contracts were still on hold,

21:15

everything was still on hold. So

21:17

I registered for a coach training,

21:19

three lengthy ones, and hired a

21:22

supervisor immediately. There's not really a

21:24

culture of supervision within the coaching

21:26

space, and I do think that

21:28

I'll just offer my opinion. I

21:31

think that's a mistake. We need

21:33

other people who are more developed

21:35

than us to mirror us. And

21:37

the culture in the coaching space

21:40

is mostly like you get your

21:42

own coach. And I think that's

21:44

important too. I have my own

21:46

personal therapist. I do have my

21:48

own personal coach, but I have

21:51

my supervisors too and it's different.

21:53

Yeah, I think that was maybe

21:55

one of the best decisions I've

21:57

made at the beginning was to

22:00

hire supervisors. And now I've been

22:02

doing this for four years now

22:04

and have evolved a lot personally.

22:06

evolved a lot in terms of

22:09

who I serve as well. Yeah,

22:11

I'd love for you to describe

22:13

for folks who might not understand

22:15

the modality or the specifics of

22:18

the modality or the potential outcomes.

22:20

What is somatic depth coaching? So

22:22

somatic depth coaching is not like

22:24

a registered modality anywhere. It's kind

22:26

of like an umbrella term for

22:29

a group of modalities that I

22:31

weave together. Sematic basically just means

22:33

anything dealing with the body. traditional

22:35

talk therapy and mindset coaching really

22:38

deal with the conscious mind but

22:40

that's just like this tiny sliver

22:42

at the top of the iceberg

22:44

of what's really there and we

22:47

think of our brain as living

22:49

in our head or our mind

22:51

is living in our head but

22:53

it's connected to the nervous system

22:56

which runs throughout in our entire

22:58

body and that's what that data

23:00

that's coming via our nervous system

23:02

is what shapes how we perceive

23:04

the world so excluding the body

23:07

is just like oh my god

23:09

what are you doing you know?

23:11

So that's the somatic piece. The

23:13

depth piece is about working with

23:16

what is unseen. And when we

23:18

talk about the conscious mind, that

23:20

is what's seen. And underneath that,

23:22

you know, it's kind of like

23:25

the, when you see a sprout

23:27

on top of soil, there's a

23:29

whole system of roots underground that

23:31

connect to not just to other

23:34

organisms within the soil, but to,

23:36

yeah, like to the entire ecosystem.

23:38

We talk often about finding the

23:40

root cause of problems, but there's

23:42

rarely one root. Plants rarely have

23:45

one root, they have many, many

23:47

roots, and they weave and connect

23:49

together. And so my job is

23:51

to really act as like an

23:54

interpersonal or relational ecologist to understand

23:56

what were the conditions that you

23:58

grew in that created these shapes

24:00

in your unconscious. that are shaping

24:03

where your energy flows, how you

24:05

perceive the world, and how can

24:07

we create the conditions that you

24:09

were perhaps missing at that time

24:12

for those pieces of yourself so

24:14

that they can reorganize? Yes, as

24:16

I've said, like this is only

24:18

speaking from my own opinion, this

24:20

is where we need to go

24:23

in order to facilitate resolution, I

24:25

think. And I was hoping you

24:27

and I could break down the

24:29

unconscious because... Because I think sometimes

24:32

when we're talking about consciousness, which

24:34

I'm super into, I enrolled in

24:36

a depth psychology grad program that

24:38

I'll probably be dropping out of

24:41

because they're a little more heavy

24:43

on the psychotherapy and I'm realizing

24:45

it's actually depth psychology and working

24:47

with the unconscious, that is in

24:50

my humble opinion most fruitful. So

24:52

we have the conscious mind. This

24:54

is what we're aware of. It's

24:56

what we can see. name, no,

24:58

you know, this is the prefrontal

25:01

cortex. It's often linked to the

25:03

present moment, although the past always

25:05

informs the present. So that is

25:07

consciousness, and within that there are

25:10

levels, at least in my world.

25:12

You know, there's collective consciousness. There's,

25:14

for all you mystical types, such

25:16

as myself, there's like... Angels or

25:19

other frequencies in realms of consciousness

25:21

that we can access. Some people

25:23

call it the muses, some people

25:25

call it inspiration, some folks call

25:28

it their higher self, whatever. There's

25:30

all these different frequencies and forms

25:32

of consciousness. Then we have the

25:34

subconscious. So the subconscious is different

25:36

than the unconscious. And I will

25:39

sometimes use subconscious and unconscious interchangeably

25:41

sometimes because I think that we...

25:43

can ignore the subconscious, but we

25:45

can also access it. It's something

25:48

we can choose not to see

25:50

like our mess in the closet,

25:52

but like we can open the

25:54

closet door and get to it.

25:57

And so our subconscious is what's

25:59

like right underneath the conscious mind

26:01

that we might not be aware

26:03

of, but through dropping, the subconscious,

26:05

what else? What else? What do

26:08

you want to add to anything

26:10

I just said? Because I want

26:12

you in this combo. The distinction

26:14

that I often offer to my

26:17

clients. For I like that you're

26:19

making the distinction between subconscious and

26:21

unconscious because I agree that they're

26:23

used interchangeably Maybe more often than

26:26

they should be I still use

26:28

them interchangeably sometimes depending on like

26:30

whom talking to you But sometimes

26:32

you have to like almost be

26:35

decisively inter like inaccurate just in

26:37

order to get through to someone

26:39

and then you can kind of

26:41

clear up the confusion afterwards But

26:43

yeah for the example I offer

26:46

to people is if the subconscious

26:48

is like When you have an

26:50

argument with your partner and you

26:52

just realize that you're hungry afterwards

26:55

the information of oh I was

26:57

hungry is accessible to you whereas

26:59

in the unconscious without a powerful

27:01

mirror to help you kind of

27:04

find yourself or relate to material

27:06

in your experience in a different

27:08

way it is out of your

27:10

reach. The unconscious is always there

27:13

like I also want to like

27:15

get into this more and clarify

27:17

it for folks it's always there

27:19

so we're always talking to it,

27:21

it's often always listening, it's often

27:24

in the room, but we're not

27:26

aware of it, and how we

27:28

can sometimes access it is it's

27:30

often immediately a defense or a

27:33

blacking out, or sometimes when I

27:35

work with clients, they'll be like,

27:37

it's like a pocket of disassociation.

27:39

or in myself, if I'm listening

27:42

to a lecture or something, and

27:44

I just zoom out, I'm like,

27:46

oh, my unconscious wasn't ready to

27:48

hear that. And so then like

27:51

the first step of sometimes understanding

27:53

what is going on in the

27:55

unconscious is it comes up often

27:57

through a defense or as a

27:59

protector part or as resistance, right,

28:02

because there's an aspect of it.

28:04

that requires a great amount of

28:06

compassion, a great amount of trust,

28:08

and a great amount of patience.

28:11

And I was... hoping that you

28:13

could share a little bit of

28:15

your understanding through your work and

28:17

through your personal experience of some

28:20

ways that to paraphrase a very

28:22

well-known depth psychologist we can make

28:24

the unconscious conscious. Yeah. First of

28:26

all, I like that you brought

28:29

up the language of protectors. I

28:31

am trained in internal family system

28:33

so that that language of parts

28:35

is really familiar and comfortable for

28:37

me. The way that I support

28:40

my clients to make their unconscious

28:42

conscious. Starts with the body, really,

28:44

because I think without that depth

28:46

piece, actually, somatic therapy can almost

28:49

be unconsciously weaponized to silence and

28:51

repress ourselves further. We have this

28:53

nervous system, but our unconscious is

28:55

the voice that speaks through our

28:58

nervous system as it responds to

29:00

life. So we can really work

29:02

with the nervous system. as a

29:04

pathway to deepening our understanding of

29:07

the unconscious. So many of my

29:09

clients who come to me are

29:11

super achieving like giga artists and

29:13

designers who have built really successful

29:15

careers for themselves or are in

29:18

the process of building really successful

29:20

careers for themselves. And they're brilliant.

29:22

they've usually come to their place

29:24

of success from muscling through obstacles

29:27

with their mind, but they kind

29:29

of hit a wall and there's

29:31

not very much awareness of what's

29:33

happening in their body and they're

29:36

like, I want clarity, I want

29:38

to know what's next, I don't

29:40

really know where I'm going, but

29:42

they also couldn't tell you when

29:45

they're hungry, it takes them like

29:47

until they're about to explode. to

29:49

know when they need to pee,

29:51

you know, and desire is this

29:53

experience that is embodied that pulls

29:56

us in a certain direction. Oh,

29:58

I want to eat this. I

30:00

want to go over here. And

30:02

without a connection to that, it's

30:05

really hard to achieve any semblance of

30:07

clarity in our life at large. So

30:09

where I usually meet clients is depending

30:11

on how far in their journey they

30:13

are of embodiment. If we were starting

30:15

right at the beginning, I would help

30:17

them start to build. that embodied awareness

30:20

and really slowly, because if you're not

30:22

used to paying attention to your body

30:24

at all, focusing any attention on your

30:26

body, even in like a mindfulness context,

30:28

just listen to a meditation, can be

30:30

really overwhelming. And it's not the right

30:33

place for everyone to start. And actually

30:35

that is where I delineate my scope

30:37

as if someone's totally incapable of doing

30:39

any sort of mindfulness and it really

30:41

distresses them, and then I usually refer

30:43

them out to a therapist because I'm not

30:45

the right person to work with them. embodied

30:47

capacities more and more while

30:49

sort of layering it over with

30:52

ways to begin dialoguing with

30:54

their mind differently, but

30:56

also just taking their

30:58

entire experience more seriously and

31:01

with more curiosity and

31:03

openness. Often when we're doing this

31:05

kind of like presencing work, they

31:08

will have like a nasal itch

31:10

maybe, but they're like, I'm

31:12

not feeling anything anything and

31:14

I'm like, well. Really, are you feeling nothing? Do

31:17

you feel like the coolness of the air behind

31:19

your ears right now? Do you feel maybe like

31:21

a little bit cold in your toes? Is there

31:23

a warmth behind your back where it meets the

31:25

pillow? And they're like, I do feel that. I'm

31:27

like, okay, well, why don't we start there?

31:30

And it's just cultivating this belief or

31:32

this understanding that absolutely anything in your

31:34

awareness can lead you to the center.

31:36

You don't have to find this big

31:38

root thing and deep. You just have

31:40

this big cathartic. Often that's actually destructive

31:42

because again, the system has not yet

31:44

built the capacity for chaos that that

31:46

would bring or the ability to metabolize

31:48

it. So you're just re-enforcing that old

31:50

shape that your body had to take

31:52

on in order to protect itself. So

31:55

yeah, we build that a bodied awareness, we

31:57

build that stretching the capacity for chaos so

31:59

that when life... gives them chaos, they

32:01

know how to use it. Yeah,

32:03

and that's also, you didn't use

32:05

this word, but I'll use it,

32:08

you know, that's also really, it's

32:10

alchemy. We're having to learn how

32:12

to take one sensation, let's just

32:14

say, or one form, or one

32:17

pattern of energy, and pivot it,

32:19

twist it, unravel it, maybe bring

32:21

it back into the system in

32:23

a different way. I really love

32:25

this work and I'm really fascinated

32:28

by it and I was wondering

32:30

if you could talk a little

32:32

bit about in your experience what

32:34

some of these high operating high

32:37

achieving very ambitious very intelligent folks

32:39

who I'm sure you know some

32:41

of our listeners are that and

32:43

I'm like raising my hand as

32:45

you're talking about everything right What

32:48

are some themes or some patterns

32:50

of some of the energies that

32:52

these folks have to metabolize? Well,

32:54

the main thing is that they

32:57

are, the main energy source that

32:59

they are using to feel their

33:01

success is fear. And so fear

33:03

and survival energy is a very

33:05

powerful fuel source, but it's really,

33:08

it's meant to get us from

33:10

A to B as quickly as

33:12

possible and then not be used

33:14

anymore. when it's being used long

33:16

term it has friction it's like

33:19

it wears down on the system

33:21

and it's very inefficient long term

33:23

to use as fuel. So most

33:25

of them are using that as

33:28

fuel because they know that it

33:30

works well enough. It helped them

33:32

survive in the past so they're

33:34

unconscious as filed it away as

33:36

like safe. Whatever I've done in

33:39

the past to get myself to

33:41

safety that worked I will just

33:43

keep using indefinitely because I have

33:45

no evidence that other ways will

33:48

get me there. So those are

33:50

usually parts of themselves, you know,

33:52

protective parts of themselves that are

33:54

running those patterns or like deploying

33:56

those strategies. Obviously the issue is

33:59

if you if you were creating

34:01

success from fear, the success will

34:03

only amplify the fear. So, you

34:05

know, at every level of, like

34:08

every milestone they hit, there's just,

34:10

it just, the fear gets bigger

34:12

and bigger, and the insecurity gets

34:14

bigger and bigger, it just becomes

34:16

like a taller peak to fall

34:19

from, and it's that classic thing

34:21

of like, growing taller branches than

34:23

you have roots, every storm becomes

34:25

really scary because you have nothing

34:28

really anchoring you. And then I

34:30

would also say, because many of

34:32

my clients have been in therapy,

34:34

they usually have like a history

34:36

of trauma that they've been in

34:39

therapy for for like anywhere between

34:41

two and sometimes 20 years before

34:43

they come to see me. They've

34:45

seen a lot of practitioners usually.

34:48

And it's often the case that

34:50

they have a lot of these

34:52

tools that we're working with already,

34:54

but they're either because they were

34:56

in a system that didn't really

34:59

know how to use them in

35:01

an integrated way or they've been

35:03

a bunch of courses and are

35:05

using them on their own. They're

35:08

like, oh, I'm anxious, I should

35:10

be self-regulating myself. And it's like,

35:12

well, wait a minute, like, what

35:14

is the voice speaking through the

35:16

anxiety that you're experiencing? Because do

35:19

we want to silence that? You

35:21

know? And they're using these self-regulation

35:23

strategies to further oppress themselves and

35:25

keep them able to continue using

35:28

these strategies that actually aren't serving

35:30

them. So that is a big

35:32

tangle that we have to get

35:34

them out of a lot of

35:36

the time because I'll even introduce

35:39

the IFS language, the parts work

35:41

language, and then there'll be a

35:43

lack of awareness of the agendas

35:45

that they're bringing in while they're

35:47

trying to speak to them, they're

35:50

trying to convince them, they're trying

35:52

to manipulate them, to try to

35:54

force them, and as long as

35:56

we're in this convincing, forcing, manipulating

35:59

energy, we're still operating from fear.

36:01

and operating from that place from

36:03

ease feels like it often feels

36:05

fucking terrible at the beginning, you

36:07

know, because their system has no

36:10

evidence that it's safe, so they're

36:12

like, are we going to die?

36:14

Are we going to die? just

36:16

like you will but death doesn't

36:19

mean not physically you know you

36:21

will transform and in that sense

36:23

you will die but you will

36:25

not physically die I promise you

36:27

know or at least not in

36:30

my office I mean I've said

36:32

I've been known to say if

36:34

it feels like you're dying you

36:36

are this is a part of

36:39

you. There's like an extinction burst.

36:41

There's death knells. There's very heightened

36:43

states for a while or at

36:45

least in my experience personally and

36:47

with people. And I'm really glad

36:50

Antonio, you brought this up and

36:52

I'm also glad you multiple times

36:54

talked about chaos because I think

36:56

that chaos is such a such

36:59

a part of this process and

37:01

there is often an inevitably an

37:03

aspect of the process where like

37:05

everything is out on the table.

37:07

You know, it's like, you're like,

37:10

okay, I got to clean the

37:12

closet. So I got to take

37:14

everything out and there's stuff there

37:16

I want to look at, stuff

37:19

I don't want to look at.

37:21

Yeah, it's like a moldy chicken

37:23

nugget in there. Yeah, you're like,

37:25

what is this? Yeah, do I

37:27

throw it? Do I bring it

37:30

to therapy? And I think for...

37:32

many humans, particularly people who are

37:34

both intelligent, who have, I'm putting

37:36

this in quotes, achieved something, right,

37:39

and who have a history of

37:41

trauma, there are many hard parts,

37:43

and we'll talk about a couple

37:45

of those. But a really challenging

37:47

part is truly learning how to

37:50

reorganize. put the things back in

37:52

the closet, reorganize, recalibrate in a

37:54

different way. Like literally through a

37:56

different way of doing it, through

37:59

different sensations in the body, through

38:01

a different process, and I was

38:03

hoping you could share a little

38:05

bit about some ways. either experienced

38:07

or helped or stewarded other people's

38:10

own process and helping them let

38:12

themselves put themselves back together through

38:14

intuition safety and in a way

38:16

that is restorative or supportive of

38:18

the nervous system and the psyche

38:21

because if we don't learn how

38:23

to do it just a little

38:25

bit more each time. I think

38:27

that's also when more chaos or

38:30

more collapse might be more likely

38:32

to happen. Yeah, it gets bigger

38:34

each time we don't successfully digest

38:36

it for sure. So we're looking

38:38

for kind of like a client

38:41

story or maybe just what what

38:43

your thoughts are of what you've

38:45

noticed. I mean, I have my

38:47

little ingredient bank, but I'd love

38:50

to hear. what are, like, I

38:52

think there are definitely going to

38:54

be many people listening to this

38:56

who are in this kind of

38:58

process or who have experienced these

39:01

kinds of patterns and really are

39:03

looking for a way to operate

39:05

not from shame, not from fear.

39:07

but from life force as you

39:10

this is like I got this

39:12

is where we're headed folks if

39:14

you're listening like this is the

39:16

future right we're operating from life

39:18

we're operating from safety and connection

39:21

like this is what we're all

39:23

or many of us know you

39:25

know, is the web we're wanting

39:27

to weave collaboratively, separately, altogether, right?

39:30

So I just was hoping you

39:32

could share a little bit for

39:34

someone who's like, okay, well, I'm

39:36

in collapse or I'm in chaos

39:38

or I've noticed that this is

39:41

a pattern, knowing that every single

39:43

person is so different, and they'll

39:45

have their own, you know, like,

39:47

it's really hard to give blanket,

39:50

but maybe just like something that

39:52

was super helpful to you in

39:54

your learning or in your own

39:56

process or a reminder that you

39:58

use when you want to begin

40:01

to recalibrate or metabolize this fear

40:03

or maybe even just some thoughts

40:05

about fear and shame themselves that

40:07

that folks can begin to reflect

40:10

upon in their own lives. Yeah,

40:12

one of the thoughts that bubbled

40:14

to the surface is this, you

40:16

know, I made this distinction between

40:18

fear and love as fuel before

40:21

but What I also want to

40:23

say is that I believe that

40:25

really that they're the same thing,

40:27

but what differentiates them is whether

40:30

a system has capacity for chaos

40:32

or not. And it can be

40:34

that parts of our system do

40:36

and parts of our system don't

40:38

or for different kinds of like

40:41

chaos energy, but fear is what

40:43

will emerge in the parts of

40:45

us that do not have a

40:47

capacity for chaos. The parts of

40:49

us that do, that feel safe,

40:52

will experience love. But it's the

40:54

same energy. It's just coming out

40:56

in a different note through the

40:58

system, depending on what shape the

41:01

system is. It's like a flute

41:03

versus a tuba. It's a different

41:05

sound. I also realized just to

41:07

get folks more on board if

41:09

anyone's not sure. Do you mind

41:12

just defining in your own words

41:14

what you mean as chaos? Yeah.

41:16

So disorganized energy. In practical terms,

41:18

you know, a breakup might be

41:21

a really good example of chaos

41:23

energy. Your life is what was

41:25

once settled in a certain shape

41:27

is now up in the air.

41:29

Your life is in a state

41:32

of flux, things, the pieces have

41:34

not landed yet. And this state

41:36

is a really potent state for

41:38

creation. In order to create, we

41:41

need, there's raw materials you have

41:43

your paint palette and there's just

41:45

like squages of paint, but... Thus

41:47

the raw materials you have, they

41:49

haven't fallen into the place in

41:52

the way that you want them

41:54

to yet. Now if we don't

41:56

have the capacity for chaos energy,

41:58

we will... to default to very

42:01

simplistic shapes like you know the

42:03

victim hero perpetrator pattern where we're

42:05

just like someone's a bad guy

42:07

someone's a good guy someone's the

42:09

someone's the poor person who's it

42:12

but when really all of us

42:14

contain these archetypes all the time

42:16

and when you can get out

42:18

of that drama triangle and be

42:21

like okay well what is my

42:23

life asking of me right now

42:25

who am I trying to become?

42:28

And how can I use this period

42:30

of flux to become 1% closer to

42:33

becoming that person? Even if I can't

42:35

respond to it in the way that

42:37

that person that I'm trying to become

42:39

would, how can I do that 1%

42:42

more? And be really happy with the

42:44

fact that I've made 1% progress. And

42:46

maybe for the rest of this breakup

42:48

or whatever, like being fired event, I'm

42:50

going to demonize other people and blame

42:53

other people and shame myself. But for

42:55

that 1%... I changed the shapes a

42:57

little bit. Yeah, and that's why this

42:59

loops back around to you talking about

43:02

how powerful the archetype of the shape

43:04

shifter is. And I love it. I

43:06

did a whole class where one of

43:08

the modules was about the shape shifter

43:11

because I think it's this paradox that

43:13

we're so often taught to be static

43:15

is to be safe, but to be

43:17

static is to be stagnant. And if

43:19

you're not shape shifting or changing, even

43:22

just a little bit, as you said,

43:24

1%, oftentimes there's some kind of repression

43:26

happening or there's some kind of buildup

43:28

energetically, I guess you could say. And

43:31

so I was wondering. if folks like

43:33

in your work with the shape shifting

43:35

or with that 1% difference, do you

43:37

use archetypes or do you utilize creativity

43:40

itself or imagination itself to help folks

43:42

come to more clarity in who they'd

43:44

like to become or who... they would

43:46

like to be through all of this?

43:48

I honestly, I have a big toolkit

43:51

and I use different tools for different

43:53

people. Some of the people who come

43:55

to me are very esotericly inclined and

43:57

super curious and I will go into,

44:00

I'll use more words like alchemy or

44:02

archetypes with them, but I also get

44:04

people who are like terrified of anything

44:06

that looks spiritual because of the conditioning

44:09

that they had. And in a way

44:11

I am like an ideal person to

44:13

meet them there because I'm just like...

44:15

If I can get it, you know,

44:17

like I did grow up in the

44:20

danger zone. So yeah, like it totally

44:22

can be. And you know, if you

44:24

grew up in the 70s watching like

44:26

the murder suicides of certain cult communes

44:29

and that kind of thing, I'm like,

44:31

yeah, like I get why you were

44:33

afraid that I might brainwash you. Like,

44:35

I have no interest in doing that.

44:38

And also the way that I like

44:40

to organize myself that I have found

44:42

most useful that I'm very willing to

44:44

renegotiate as I continue to live my

44:46

life. that I have no interest in

44:49

proving right or wrong. It's just whether

44:51

they're useful to me and their usefulness

44:53

changes depending on who I'm being and

44:55

who I need to become. So that's

44:58

something that I explained to my clients

45:00

a lot of the time too. Like

45:02

it's really important to me that you

45:04

feel safe to have different beliefs than

45:07

me. I'm going to introduce certain frameworks

45:09

and you can try them on and

45:11

I am zero percent invested in you

45:13

taking them on. The point is to

45:15

help you become someone who can break

45:18

out of the suffocating, really truly suffocating

45:20

binary of, is this right? Is this

45:22

wrong? Am I doing this right? Am

45:24

I good or am I bad? It

45:27

just causes so much pain and confusion,

45:29

and I remember how painful it was

45:31

for myself as a mega-lebra with a,

45:33

not even superinto astrology or human design,

45:36

but I remember reading one of the

45:38

pieces of my human design that I

45:40

said that I had the right-hand cross

45:42

of laws, and it took me ages

45:44

to find out what that actually meant,

45:47

and it, and it, and it, and

45:49

it's just like, and it's just like,

45:51

and it's just like. Yeah, I have

45:53

a very very strong sense of justice

45:56

and morality and I have a part

45:58

of me that express is that or

46:00

like navigates with my moral compass

46:02

from life force energy from self

46:04

energy and then another part the shadow of

46:07

that is like righteousness and I have to

46:09

keep an eye on that. But breaking out

46:11

of right and wrong was especially painful

46:13

for me because I have that tendency

46:15

and I also have a very very

46:18

strong mind but it's so liberating on

46:20

the other side of it. Yeah so so

46:22

I use different tools depending on the person

46:24

so I kind of like got around that

46:26

question but the one thing piece of, like

46:29

I find it difficult to express what I

46:31

do, but what my clients say all the

46:33

time, so I'm just borrowing their words

46:35

now, is like, this work feels like

46:37

psychedelics without the drugs. I'm in

46:40

this state where these things are just

46:42

coming out of me, like we're in

46:44

this active imagination exercise, talking to one

46:46

of their protector parts, and they're like,

46:48

am I making this up, am I

46:50

speaking right now? And I'm kind of

46:52

like, well, you know, if it's coming from

46:55

your mind, it's coming from your

46:57

mind, their body will be going hot

46:59

and cold, they'll be like tears

47:01

kind of coming down, or they'll

47:03

be laughing, or there's just this

47:05

really tender moment of where their

47:07

whole system is reorganizing itself.

47:09

And the act of imagination, whether

47:11

it's real or not real, or

47:13

whatever real or not real, even means

47:16

acted as a almost like a scaffolding

47:18

for that process of reorganization like

47:21

guardrails. Like you could go

47:23

into the into your depths, but

47:25

you have something to hold on to.

47:27

and that meaning making, like strategic meaning

47:29

making, using your mind to help your

47:31

unconscious, reorganize itself is a tool. You

47:34

know, I think spiritual traditions really demonize

47:36

the mind and this is just me,

47:38

but I'm like, my mind has been

47:41

incredibly useful to me. It's very, very

47:43

powerful and I don't want to get

47:45

rid of it. And I also need

47:47

to know how to live outside of it

47:50

when I need to, and within it, and to

47:52

mold it, to not let it be my master, but

47:54

to train it in a very specific way.

47:56

or as I did my body when I

47:58

was working at CERC. What I

48:00

hear you saying is that

48:03

we can pull from parts

48:05

of ourselves who that are

48:07

or who are ready to

48:10

be expressed, ready to share,

48:12

we can meet them at

48:14

the various levels of consciousness,

48:17

nervous system, body, imagination, mind,

48:19

and that through listening, allowing,

48:21

being with. supporting, we then

48:24

expand our capacity and we

48:26

have access to more of

48:28

ourselves. The more we have

48:31

access to more parts of

48:33

ourselves over time, the easier

48:35

it will be to... discern,

48:37

how do I want to

48:40

put the things back in

48:42

the closet, what feels good

48:44

to me now, maybe I'll

48:47

drop into my heart, maybe

48:49

I'll write a list, maybe

48:51

I'll put it on the

48:54

computer, maybe I'll go on

48:56

a walk, or, you know,

48:58

whatever, whatever that is. And

49:01

the other thing I really

49:03

wanted to highlight that I

49:05

think is really important, and

49:08

very much goes against dominant

49:10

culture, even within, as you've

49:12

so astutely pointed out, psychotherapy,

49:15

psychotherapy. spirituality, whatever, this belief,

49:17

this rule, this law that

49:19

we're always supposed to know.

49:22

And you know, there's like

49:24

this like emphasis on authority.

49:26

If you're good or if

49:28

you're doing it the right

49:31

way, then it will be

49:33

clear and you'll know. And

49:35

that is usually placed at

49:38

a higher pedestal and what

49:40

I hear you saying that

49:42

I really wish would be

49:45

talked about more is the

49:47

gifts and the pathway as

49:49

being one of confusion at

49:52

times is like disorient when

49:54

you said like Yes, to

49:56

me, psychedelic is like you

49:59

have access to more, you

50:01

have access to the undamable,

50:03

things feel much more alive,

50:06

much more present, they might

50:08

be overwhelming, but there's also

50:10

a level of disorientation and

50:12

confusion inherent in that. And

50:15

I looks like you wanted

50:17

to chime in, I'd love

50:19

to hear anything you wanted

50:22

to say, speak to that.

50:25

Our ability to navigate the unknown

50:27

is really our ability to navigate

50:29

life, our relationship to the unknown,

50:31

and our attachment to certainty really

50:33

defines how we experience our lives.

50:35

You know, so it's always funny

50:37

to me when my clients say

50:39

that these sessions feel like psychedelics

50:41

without drugs, and I'm like, life

50:43

is psychedelic. Like we take these

50:45

drugs to remember how to live,

50:47

but... If we're actually integrating the

50:49

experiences we're having on psychedelics and

50:52

there's not enough of a culture

50:54

of that, like we use, we

50:56

fling the word around, but what

50:58

does integration really mean? It's how

51:00

am I using the information, how

51:02

am I taking, you know, the

51:04

stuff that I've just taken out

51:06

of the closet, how am I

51:08

reorganizing it, or am I just

51:10

going to leave it on the

51:12

floor in a pile and be

51:14

like, all right, I'm doing this,

51:16

how am I... using this to

51:18

become more of the person that

51:21

I want to be, and recognizing

51:23

that the person that I want

51:25

to become or the person that

51:27

I'm supposed to become might not

51:29

be who I think I should

51:31

become, or who society thinks that

51:33

I should become. And the more

51:35

we can trust the direction that

51:37

we're being pulled in, the bigger

51:39

the leaps we can take. Like

51:41

we start with 1% because that's

51:43

usually what our system can handle,

51:45

but the... the more disorganization and

51:47

confusion and unknown and unknowing that

51:49

you can handle, the more your

51:52

capacity to take big leaps of

51:54

order creation grows. It's not a

51:56

1% jump anymore. becomes a five,

51:58

25% jump. Life is psychedelic. You're

52:00

in the unknown all the time.

52:02

The costly illusion is certainty, really.

52:04

It feels safe, but it's not

52:06

the safest place to be is

52:08

in the unknown and is with

52:10

a safe relationship to the unknown.

52:12

So that's really what I aim

52:14

to give my clients is the

52:16

gift of, ultimately I want them

52:18

to walk out of my containers

52:21

having the tools. where like they

52:23

can come back if they want

52:25

to to continue working with me

52:27

because a lot of people just

52:29

they come in they have their

52:31

goals they achieve their goals they're

52:33

like I just like this I

52:35

want to continue but I want

52:37

it to be optional. Oh yeah

52:39

same I'm like if I'm doing

52:41

my job right I may never

52:43

see you again you know like

52:45

you know I mean I love

52:47

you like that's the other thing

52:49

too so this was great this

52:52

was fantastic this was just so

52:54

enlivening I'm so grateful for you

52:56

to coming on and sharing your

52:58

knowledge and your process and yourself

53:00

so freely. And so generously, I

53:02

would love for you to share

53:04

the various ways that folks can

53:06

enter your worlds, work with you

53:08

in 2025 and beyond. Yeah, absolutely.

53:10

So the easiest way to access

53:12

my work is through my sub

53:14

stack called Space Unknown. It's literally

53:16

what it's called. It's not called

53:18

Space Guaranteed, you know. And I

53:20

have a free tier, so you

53:23

can just get like two or

53:25

three articles per month. I have

53:27

a paid tier where you can

53:29

access monthly workshops and more of

53:31

my personal musings. I keep them

53:33

paywalled because not everyone who wants

53:35

to work with a coach wants

53:37

to know everything about their life.

53:39

So there's a little boundary there.

53:41

I want to share things and

53:43

I want people not to be

53:45

overwhelmed by what I share to

53:47

not have like the greasy fingerprints

53:49

on their mirror, you know. I

53:52

have a... monthly membership for group

53:54

coaching. At least that's how it's

53:56

structured as of this recording is

53:58

you pay $155 a month and

54:00

you get two. group coaching calls

54:02

per month in that set so

54:04

it's pretty basic. And then I

54:06

also offer one-on-one services and that's

54:08

really where I focus most of

54:10

my work. That's the work that

54:12

I enjoy doing the most because

54:14

we can go the deepest. And

54:16

those are the ways that you

54:18

can work with me currently. Beautiful.

54:20

Thank you so much. This was

54:23

such a gorgeous conversation. Thank you.

54:25

I loved your questions. Gentle

54:33

listener, was that not awesome?

54:35

You can find all of

54:37

Antonio's information in the show

54:39

notes. You can subscribe to

54:41

their sub stack. You can

54:43

follow them on Instagram. And

54:45

maybe you wanna hire them

54:48

as your coach. I know

54:50

I do. I'm sort of

54:52

like, should I hire Antonio

54:54

right now before she blows

54:56

up? Because you know she's

54:58

gonna blow up. I just

55:00

might. Well. Enjoy your week,

55:02

enjoy the rest of your

55:05

week. I'm sending you so

55:07

much love. Thank you so

55:09

much for being here and

55:11

I'll be back next week

55:13

with another episode. Moon Beaming

55:15

is a Moon Studio production.

55:17

It is edited by the

55:19

wonderful Amelia Ruby at Softer

55:22

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55:24

by Melissa Caitlin Carter of

55:26

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