0:00

Hey, weirdos, it's Ash here. Ready to

0:02

share a little secret. Have you heard of

0:04

Wonder Plus? With ad-free episodes in one

0:06

week early access, it's like having an

0:08

all-access pass to our light-hearted nightmare. So

0:10

come join us on the Dark Side

0:12

and Try Wonder Plus today. You can

0:14

join Wondery Plus in the Wonderie app

0:16

or in Apple Podcast or Spotify.

0:18

You're listening to a morbid network

0:21

podcast. Let

0:24

audible expand your life by listening. Explore

0:27

over 1 million audiobooks and exclusive audible

0:29

originals that will inspire and motivate you.

0:31

All in one easy app. Tap into

0:33

your well-being with advice and insight from

0:36

leading professionals and experts on better health,

0:38

relationships, career, finance, investing, and more. Maybe

0:40

you want to kick a bad habit

0:42

or start a good one. Speaking of,

0:44

I'm actually listening to The Secret on

0:47

Audible, I love that title so much.

0:49

And 10 out of 10 recommend, the

0:51

soundscaping is pristine. Get advice and insight

0:53

from leading professionals and experts on health,

0:55

relationship, career, finance, investing, and more.

0:57

There's so much opportunity to learn

1:00

and more to imagine when you

1:02

listen when you listen. Start listening

1:04

today when you sign up for

1:06

a free 30-day trial at audible.com/morbid.

1:08

Listen up weirdos, we gotta talk

1:10

about drunk elephants, protein-y, polypeptide cream.

1:12

I am straight up obsessed with

1:14

this stuff. Imagine adding a protein

1:16

boost to your morning smoothie for

1:18

extra energy, but now, picture protein-y

1:20

doing the same for your skin.

1:22

It is that powerful. Just as

1:24

our bodies need protein to stay

1:26

strong and healthy, our skin craves

1:29

peptides and nutrients just like our

1:31

bodies do. Think of it as

1:33

a nourishing protein shake, but you

1:35

face. Proteeny is a breakthrough moisturizer

1:37

that delivers daily moisture. It visibly

1:39

firms and strengthens skin and it

1:41

improves the appearance of skin's texture

1:44

and tone, fine lines and signs

1:46

of sun damage. I have incorporated

1:48

this into my daily routine and

1:51

my skin is feeling so nice.

1:53

This is a super lightweight cream

1:55

which I really love. I'm not

1:58

a super big fan of like

2:00

a heavy cream. This is a

2:02

gel cream that delivers daily moisture.

2:04

Visibly firm skin, it has nine

2:07

signal peptides, and I am obsessed

2:09

with it. Discover Proteeny Polypeptide Cream

2:11

at Ulta Beauty Stores and also

2:14

at ulta.com. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash,

2:16

and I'm Elena. And this is

2:18

morbid in the morning. We

2:32

haven't done one of these in a little

2:34

while. I know. I had a merch idea

2:36

this morning, actually, when I was driving here.

2:39

I was like, oh, I got to say

2:41

that it's morbid in the morning. We should

2:43

just do like a strength that says like

2:46

morbid in the morning, like. like maybe like

2:48

embroidered on like the shirt with like a

2:50

little coffee cup. Yes, that's how I pictured

2:52

it too. Yes, I love that. Yeah, we'll

2:55

do that someday. Yeah, I love that idea.

2:57

Thank you. I had a strange dream last

2:59

night and I don't remember the the dream

3:02

itself. This is going to sense so random.

3:04

But I remember in the dream someone was

3:06

using PEMDAS to solve an equation. Oh my

3:08

god, parentheses, exponents, multiplication, subtraction. Addition subtraction. Addition

3:11

subtraction. Addition subtraction. Addition subtraction. Yes. And I

3:13

woke up and I said. What is the

3:15

E in Pemdes? That was the first thought

3:18

I the first thought I had this morning

3:20

I rolled over and I looked at John

3:22

I said do you remember what the E

3:24

is in Pemdes? And he was like you

3:27

just opened your eyes like what do you

3:29

mean? It's like how dare you assault me?

3:31

He literally was like what are you talking

3:34

about? And I was like what are you

3:36

talking about? You know how you like solved

3:38

it? And he was like, what is happening?

3:41

Like, it was like, we're not even out

3:43

of bed. He was a power of baby.

3:45

But I was like, exponents, I remember it

3:47

now. And then I got really happy that

3:50

I remembered it. And then I was like,

3:52

that was the. weirdest set of events. One

3:54

thing I was really good at in school

3:57

was math weirdly. Yeah that's what I mean

3:59

I was not great at math. I fucked

4:01

heavy with pub dust. I'm struggling I'm trying

4:03

to help the girls with their math. Well

4:06

that's not our math. But even like the

4:08

the basic shit like they started learning fractions

4:10

and I was like oh fuck me right

4:13

up. I'm pretty I wasn't great with fractions.

4:15

It's not my favorite. I'm figuring it out.

4:17

I'm figuring it out. I'm figuring it out.

4:19

Well that's honestly I think baking has helped

4:22

me because I'll like just be. But the

4:24

problem is when you're baking I have like

4:26

a Google home thing so I'll just be

4:29

like hey Google what's like yeah how do

4:31

I make like blah blah blah out

4:33

of blah blah so you don't do like

4:35

you don't exercise that part of your brain

4:37

yeah see and they're doing like full on

4:40

like you know right but you know we're

4:42

getting there. We're learning math. There you go.

4:44

And oh, I have something to tell you

4:47

guys. That's just like a fun little thing.

4:49

We're not being paid by this company. I

4:51

just really like this thing. Say I do

4:53

too. They can be a sponsor if they

4:56

want to, but like they're not. I mean,

4:58

we're both very passionate. Yeah. So this is,

5:00

I found this in case of, I feel

5:03

like a lot of people could use this

5:05

right now, just with the state of the

5:07

world. It's this app. That's like described as

5:09

a self-care Tamagachi, which it literally is. Which

5:12

immediately drew me into it. I said yes.

5:14

And it's called Finch, F-I-N-C-H. It's so cute.

5:16

And you literally take care of this little

5:19

bird by doing things for yourself. And like

5:21

you let, and it's a very good app.

5:23

Like it's really good. I've been using it

5:25

for two full weeks now. Same. And it's

5:28

like... actually helping me be more mindful. So

5:30

basically you just kind of like list out

5:32

things that you would like to accomplish for

5:35

the day. They literally give you a list

5:37

to begin with and one of those things

5:39

is get out of bed. So it's like

5:41

you you don't have to shoot for the

5:44

stars. And you can check that off. I

5:46

got out of bed and it gives you

5:48

like a yay you did it. And so

5:51

like I have like you know drink. a

5:53

certain amount of water and making sure I

5:55

do that like read for 10 minutes right

5:57

for 20 minutes like make sure I have

6:00

all these little like you know and you

6:02

can say like you know brush your teeth

6:04

yeah so am I like home-cooked meal yeah

6:07

eat dinner at home some of them are

6:09

like I have put one item away that

6:11

is not in its place mhm because like

6:13

with kids things just get wild and you

6:16

know and so doing that is like something

6:18

that can start like a chain reaction. One

6:20

of them is smile at yourself in the

6:23

mirror. I love that! Which actually really, it

6:25

sounds weird. That's really cute though. But it

6:27

can bring you up a little bit. Yeah.

6:29

And not just like, smile at yourself in

6:32

the thing. Definitely not look at anything. Look

6:34

at yourself and genuinely smile at yourself in

6:36

the mirror and it will give you a

6:39

little boost of like... Chip Skylark in the

6:41

mirror, babe. There you go, like do it.

6:43

Yeah, you're shiny teeth and you. It's true.

6:45

I have turn off notifications for an hour.

6:48

Oh, I love that. Which is great. I

6:50

don't need to have that as a goal.

6:52

I just do that. Yeah, I usually do

6:55

that, but I literally, like, phone upstairs don't

6:57

even... Oh, yeah. Do not disturb is my

6:59

shit. Especially on the weekends. If you can't

7:01

get in touch with me, I'm on do

7:04

not to me. Do not to serve. I

7:06

have take a short walk without distractions. I

7:08

have my hour walk every day on mine.

7:11

And you, so like you check them off

7:13

and it gives you a little bird energy

7:15

and your little bird goes on adventures every

7:17

day and then tells you about it at

7:20

the end of the day. They discover something

7:22

new. Yeah, and it's just like, it's a

7:24

cute little thing. It might help you just

7:27

like check off some little things that

7:29

you would like to make. habits out of

7:31

or try to just you know make yourself

7:33

feel good. I also highly recommend it. Yeah,

7:35

I feel like it's good for like kids

7:38

to like, you know, if you're like 13

7:40

year old or whatever, however old your kid

7:42

is that has a phone. It's like a

7:45

good app to like teach them, you know,

7:47

like do things for yourself. Self care, exactly.

7:49

And turning like healthy things into routines. Yeah.

7:51

there's literally like just move for 15 minutes.

7:54

So I highly recommend it and again we're

7:56

not being sponsored by then this is just

7:58

this is just one of those recommendation moments

8:01

that I think would benefit a lot of

8:03

people. Yeah no Elena told me about it

8:05

and I've used it every day since. Oh

8:07

and there's also a little thing this this

8:10

made me happy yeah there's like even more

8:12

stuff than just a lot of yeah there's

8:14

a lot of things that you can do

8:17

on here. So I recommend you download it

8:19

and kind of explore it a little bit.

8:21

Yes, check it out. Because there's something called

8:23

like, like they have like breathing techniques. Those

8:26

are nice. They have movements like they'll give

8:28

you little things to get yourself moving for

8:30

10 minutes or something. They have soundscapes. The

8:33

soundscapes are nice. And journal entries and thoughts.

8:35

And they have a first aid kit. which

8:37

is if you're feeling very anxious or if

8:39

something happened that upset you or put you

8:42

in some type of way like you're panicky

8:44

yeah like you can it can help you

8:46

just like get through it like there's a

8:49

rant zone there's grounding exercises oh I did

8:51

the rant zone the other day there's like

8:53

what would you say to a loved one

8:55

and it's directing compassion inwards toward yourself because

8:58

I can be mean to me so that

9:00

it was very helpful because sometimes you know

9:02

people can trigger you like yeah and sometimes

9:05

you're your own worst critic anyway yeah and

9:07

it helps you like not take in all

9:09

the yuckiness on the outside yeah and it

9:12

helps you like work through it if if

9:14

some leaks through yeah so hey Finch if

9:16

you want to sponsor Finch we're kind of

9:18

obsessed with you pretty good at a good

9:21

effort and we forgot to tell you the

9:23

best part you get to name your little

9:25

bird oh yes mine's name is Gatsby and

9:28

mine is Big Ann So guys, download it.

9:30

I just highly recommend it if you're looking

9:32

for something to help yourself there. And it's

9:34

been helpful to me. I like it. It's

9:37

very cute. And it's made me more mindful

9:39

of things, like certain things, because I'll look

9:41

and I'll be like, you haven't read for

9:44

10 minutes. Can you schedule that in? I

9:46

should put that on mine, because I've been

9:48

not keeping up with my reading lately. Yeah,

9:50

and it's really helpful. Yeah, I love that.

9:53

So Finch, everybody. Hell yeah. Yeah, that's my

9:55

little recommendation for the day. All right, well,

9:57

moving on into the case of the day.

10:00

The case of the day. I have an

10:02

unsolved case today, which really infuriates me because

10:04

there's kind of no reason that there should

10:06

be unsolved. Yeah. So this is the unsolved

10:09

murder of Kristen O'Connell. So let's get into

10:11

it. Kristen Marie O'Connell was born January 12th,

10:13

1965. She was one of two kids born

10:16

to Michael and Phyllis O'Connell, who raised her

10:18

and her brother Kyle in Burnsville, Minnesota. According

10:20

to Michael O'Connell, his daughter was a really

10:22

fun, really easygoing, outgoing child, but he said

10:25

she also had a very serious side. He

10:27

said she was somewhat religious and had put

10:29

a lot of thought into becoming a

10:31

nun, actually. Oh, wow. And you can find,

10:34

like, some evidence of Kristen's faith throughout her

10:36

early life. When her grandmother, who she was

10:38

really, really close with, died in 1975, 10-year-old

10:40

Kristen turned to her faith to help her

10:43

kind of cope with this loss. In a

10:45

letter written after her grandmother's death, she said,

10:47

she wrote, death is a subject pushed aside,

10:50

never talked about. I think it should be

10:52

talked about. It's a part of life. Some

10:54

people die fast, others die young, some old.

10:56

It all depends when God wants us with

10:59

him. Pretty fucking profound for a 10-year-old. It

11:01

is, and if that, like, it sounds like

11:03

it was like a comfort. Yeah, exactly. Now,

11:06

while Kristen would always take her faith pretty

11:08

seriously, she was also, in most respects, a

11:10

pretty typical Midwestern girl and a very ideal

11:12

daughter for her parents. Her mother Phyllis told

11:15

her reporter in 2023, we had a great

11:17

relationship, and she was the one all the

11:19

boys wanted to marry. Oh, I just think

11:22

is so sweet. Like a lot of girls

11:24

her age, and where she was from, she

11:26

had a deep love of horses, and she

11:28

worked part-time at a stable near Burnsville, and

11:31

she boarded her own horse there. She also

11:33

was remembered as being a very kind, very

11:35

open person. She trusted people without reservation. Her

11:38

aunt Barb said she was the type of

11:40

person that wanted to sit and chat about

11:42

anything and everything going on with her life.

11:44

She sounds just cool. Yeah, she just sounds

11:47

like a good person, like someone you- She's

11:49

beautiful too. She was gorge. Yeah. And just

11:51

someone you'd want to be friends with, you

11:54

know? Yeah, she just seems like a cool

11:56

chick. Yeah. So after graduating from high school,

11:58

Kristen was accepted to the University of Wisconsin-Stout,

12:00

where she majored in hotel and restaurant management.

12:03

Oh, which I feel like that'd be like

12:05

a pretty fucking fun career. And also, that's

12:07

really smart. Because that's not like, like, you,

12:10

you, you, you, you're really setting yourself, you,

12:12

you're really setting yourself, you, you're really setting

12:14

yourself, you, you're really setting yourself up, you're

12:16

really setting yourself up, you, you, you're really

12:19

setting yourself up, you, you're really setting yourself

12:21

up, you're really setting yourself up, a career.

12:23

Yeah, and also you have to be like

12:26

so organized. You have to be a level

12:28

of organization that I don't even think I

12:30

could ever acquire. Yeah, I can't even comprehend

12:32

it. And you also have to be a

12:35

real people person, like really good with people

12:37

and have a good demeanor, which it sounds

12:39

like she was kind of perfect for about.

12:42

Definitely. She sounds like she was like very

12:44

bubbly, you know? But in the spring of

12:46

her sophomore year, she took a vacation to,

12:48

I think it's Captiva Island, near Fort Myers,

12:51

Florida. And she was just celebrating spring break

12:53

with some of our friends, very typical. While

12:55

she was there, she met 18-year-old James Vermeer,

12:58

Jr., who was working on the island as

13:00

a waiter at the time. He had recently

13:02

graduated high school, where he'd grown up in

13:04

Ovid, New York, and he was planning to

13:07

go back home to Ovid in a few

13:09

months. So Kristen and James headed off immediately.

13:11

And actually, even after Kristen went home to

13:14

meet a soda at the end of spring

13:16

break, they were keeping in touch through letters

13:18

and phone calls. Now, after months of this

13:20

kind of like long-distance relationship of sorts, they

13:23

weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, but it seemed like

13:25

it was like kind of heading down

13:27

that road. Kristen decided that she wanted to

13:29

visit James in New York to get to

13:32

know him better. Because they've been contacting each

13:34

other, like contacting each other through letters and

13:36

phone. She's like, like, like, like, let's like,

13:38

let's spend some time some time, the rank

13:41

like going up the steps of the relationship

13:43

letter. Yeah, exactly. Also, remember when people wrote

13:45

letters? I know. Crazy. That's like, it's so

13:48

cute. It is. It is really cute. Penn

13:50

Palace. I know. So, since she wanted to

13:52

get to know him better, she planned a

13:54

visit for mid-August just a few weeks before

13:57

she was going to go back to Wisconsin's

13:59

stout for her junior year. Initially, Kristen... Phyllis

14:01

was kind of apprehensive about her daughter visiting

14:04

a boy that she didn't really know too

14:06

well, several states away and unaccompanied. I get

14:08

it. In fact, according to Kristen's brother Kyle,

14:10

his parents actually were arguing about it for

14:13

a few days before Kristen actually did leave.

14:15

The dad Michael eventually convinced his wife that

14:17

quote, it was time to let Kristen be

14:20

a woman and make her own decisions. So

14:22

Phyllis obviously eventually agreed to let her

14:24

go reasoning that Kristen had always been

14:26

a really responsible girl She'd always been

14:29

very trustworthy so there was really no

14:31

reason not to let her go other

14:33

than her own apprehension Yeah, of course,

14:35

which what an impossible position Yeah,

14:38

and it's hard. I mean she's an

14:40

adult technically well you want to give

14:42

her the independence and the freedom to

14:44

make choices and you can't tether them to

14:46

you for the rest of their lives as

14:48

much as we want to as well and

14:50

I think as soon as your kids turn

14:52

like 17 18 19 that's a really hard

14:54

age oh I can't even fathom because it's

14:57

just like uncharted territory yeah your whole up

14:59

until then you have been able to tether

15:01

them to you pretty much and it's your

15:03

your word like you have to you know

15:05

you got to make the rules and it's

15:07

like at that point you do Feel it's like

15:09

it must be this weird feeling of like

15:11

well I have to kind of give them a little

15:14

freedom But I don't want to at the same

15:16

time like I want to just keep them and

15:18

it's like a loss of control and control is

15:20

not always a bad thing You know, it's true,

15:22

but she was so excited when she left

15:25

that day She came in kissed me and

15:27

said mom don't worry everything's fine. It'll be

15:29

fine So with her parents' consent now,

15:31

Kristen traveled from Minnesota to Boston,

15:33

where a family friend picked her

15:35

up and then drove her to

15:37

Syracuse, New York, where James Vermeers

15:39

and one of his friends picked her

15:41

up. So Kristen arrived in New York on

15:43

the night of Monday, August 12th, and her

15:46

plan was to stay until that Friday. So

15:48

not a super long time. Yeah. She was

15:50

really, really excited about this trip. Super excited

15:52

to see James, like I said, get to

15:55

know him better. Yeah. But her enthusiasm started

15:57

to wane almost as soon as she arrived

15:59

in New. work. This

16:09

show is sponsored by Better Help. Let's

16:12

Talk Numbers. Traditional in-person therapy costs

16:14

anywhere from $100 to $250 per

16:16

session, which adds up fast, but

16:18

with Better Help Online Therapy, you

16:20

can save on average up to

16:22

50% per session. With Better Help,

16:24

you pay a flat fee for

16:26

weekly session, saving you big on

16:28

cost and time. Therapy should feel

16:30

accessible, not like a luxury. With

16:33

Online Therapy, you get quality care

16:35

at a price that makes sense,

16:37

and can help you with any...

16:39

from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental

16:41

health is worth it and now it's

16:43

within reach. I love therapy. I think

16:45

everybody should be able to experience therapy.

16:47

We all have so much going on

16:49

in our day-to-day that it's nice to

16:51

just sit down with somebody once a

16:53

week, once every other week, and just

16:56

download everything and work through everything. And

16:58

with 30,000 therapists, better help is the

17:00

world's largest online therapy platform, having served

17:02

over 5 million people globally. It's convenient

17:04

too. You can join a session with

17:06

the click of a click of a

17:08

button. helping you fit therapy into your

17:10

very busy life. Plus you can

17:13

switch therapist at any time. Your

17:15

well-being is worth it. Visit better

17:17

help.com/morbid today to get 10% off

17:20

your first month. That's better help

17:22

help.com/morbid. We all have routines

17:24

that bring us calm and a chaotic

17:26

and often scary world. For me, it's

17:29

arming my simply safe home security system.

17:31

When I'm heading out every morning or

17:33

I'm locking up each night, that simple

17:35

step does more than just protect my

17:37

family and my home. It gives me

17:40

peace of mind. It gives me peace

17:42

of mind. But Simply safe, I sleep,

17:44

I sleep more soundly, and I leave

17:46

the house with more confidence. It's really

17:48

amazing how one small push of a

17:50

button can have such a big impact.

17:53

alarm is going and somebody's going to

17:55

come help us. With Simply Safe, millions

17:57

of Americans enjoy greater security and peace

17:59

of mind every time they arm

18:01

their system. Traditional security systems only

18:04

take action after someone has already

18:06

broken in. And that's too late.

18:08

Simply Safe's active guard outdoor protection

18:11

can help prevent break-ins before they

18:13

even happen. AI-powered cameras backed by

18:15

live professional monitoring agents, monitor your

18:17

property, and detect suspicious activity. Visit

18:20

Simply safe.com/morbid to claim 50% off

18:22

a new system with a professional

18:24

monitoring plan, and get your first

18:27

month free. That's Simply safe.com slash.

18:29

morbid. There is no safe like

18:31

simply safe. Initially, James told

18:33

Kristen that he that she was

18:35

going to stay at his parents house

18:37

where he also lived. So like

18:39

very normal situation there. But when

18:42

she arrived in Ovid, he told

18:44

her that the plans had changed

18:46

unexpectedly and that instead they were

18:48

going to be staying in a

18:51

trailer on his parents property. Nah.

18:53

So that would like freak me out a

18:55

little bit. And I think... She definitely... Sounds

18:57

like she was a little put off by

18:59

it. Yeah, I feel like that would make

19:01

your like flight or fight senses kind of

19:03

kicking a bit, you know? Yeah. So she

19:05

was like, okay, like sounds good and she

19:07

told her mom and the change of plans

19:09

was concerning for Phyllis who believed her daughter

19:11

would be staying in a home with adults

19:13

present. Yeah. But she was like, you're already

19:15

there and I already told you you could go,

19:18

I trust you and you know, you're still on

19:20

their property so you'll be safe. So you'll be

19:22

safe. And again. A hard position. And again,

19:24

not a lot she can do with her

19:26

daughters, technically and exactly. So it's unclear how

19:28

the two spent their day on Tuesday, but

19:30

by the next day, Kristen reportedly went swimming

19:33

with James and his friends, and then the

19:35

group went to a local bar slash restaurant

19:37

where they shot a game of pool. On the

19:39

way back to the trailer, James stopped at a

19:41

store to buy some sandwiches, get some beers, and

19:43

then the group of eight went back to James'

19:45

trailer to hang out. And it was that

19:47

afternoon that Kristen received a second

19:50

piece of unwanted and unexpected and

19:52

unexpected news. For several months, she and

19:54

James had been corresponding, like I said,

19:56

with, you know, phone calls and letters,

19:58

and, you know, he had even invited her

20:00

to come visit him, giving the impression

20:03

that he had some kind of

20:05

romantic interest in her, obviously. But

20:07

according to Michael O'Connell, Kristen's

20:09

dad, while James was talking with Kristen, he

20:12

also had been dating a girl in New

20:14

York. Oh, so he's an asshole. Yeah, and

20:16

he, quote, planned to tell Kristen about it

20:18

when she arrived in Ovid. So you invited this

20:20

girl to another state so you could tell her

20:22

that you're dating someone else? It's like, why are

20:25

you allowing her to come to, like, there's obviously

20:27

nothing's going to happen between the two of you,

20:29

or like that's how you're making it seem.

20:31

That's a dick move. And nothing should happen

20:33

because you have a girlfriend. And obviously Kristen's

20:35

a very respectable girl, so she's like, fuck

20:37

you, nothing is going to happen. But you

20:40

let her get all the way out

20:42

there? No, that makes literally no sense.

20:44

That you have her travel to another

20:46

state so you can tell her that

20:49

you have a girlfriend. And she went

20:51

from Minnesota to Boston and then from

20:53

Boston to New York. Like this was

20:55

a lot of... But you could have

20:57

told her in a letter. Yeah. What's

21:00

wrong? Or a phone call. Yeah. This

21:02

was so much effort put into this

21:04

trip for you to just kind of

21:06

like crush her there. Yeah. So it

21:09

appears that James did finally tell Kristen

21:11

about his straight up girlfriend at some

21:13

point on the afternoon or the evening

21:15

of Tuesday August 14th after they got

21:17

back to the trailer. Also how'd your

21:19

girlfriend feel about that that you invited

21:21

a girl two states like states away

21:23

to come see you who you've been corresponding

21:26

with? Like I'm sorry that's weird as fuck.

21:28

It is weird. And also like were you

21:30

telling your girlfriend or your friend's gonna say

21:32

something to her like what is going on

21:34

here? It's a very strange situation. So upon

21:37

learning about James's relationship, Kristen called her mom

21:39

in Minnesota and told her the trip really

21:41

wasn't going as well as she hoped it

21:43

was, hoped it would, and she was going

21:45

to cut it short and actually come home

21:48

the next day. Oh, I just wonder, like

21:50

everything in my soul is like I just

21:52

want you to come home. Yeah. Same. So

21:54

according to Phyllis, Kristen quote sounded upset but

21:56

wouldn't say if anything was wrong. She was

21:59

just like she... was upset and she

22:01

was like oh my god and Phyllis

22:03

was probably wanting to just like reach

22:05

over and grab her and it sounds

22:07

like you know like it could have

22:09

been very much so like you know

22:12

like she's having a hard time because

22:14

she's an adult and she can't stop

22:16

her from going but you wonder if

22:18

she's that had some kind of maternal

22:20

instinct there and then like everybody else

22:22

made her second-guess that kind of thing

22:25

yeah you know or in she know

22:27

even she might have just second-guess to

22:29

be like Let them do what they

22:31

want. It's like, no, sometimes in this

22:33

world, you can't just... Yeah. You have

22:36

to trust her. You know what I

22:38

mean? The world just tells people like

22:40

this, like, oh, you're just being crazy.

22:42

You're just being overprotective. And it's like,

22:44

no, she's... Sometimes you just know. Yeah.

22:46

So... The group continued hanging out until

22:49

late into the evening. Remember they're all

22:51

hanging out at James's trailer. And around

22:53

11 p.m. James said he was going

22:55

to go pick up a pizza and

22:57

he left. And Kristen announced to the

23:00

rest of the group that she was

23:02

going to go out for a walk

23:04

like shortly after he left. According to

23:06

17 year old David Chamberlain who was

23:08

at the trailer that night, neither Kristen

23:10

nor James seemed upset. There was no

23:13

fights or arguments that broke out at

23:15

the party. He said she just went

23:17

out for a walk and didn't for

23:19

a walk and didn't come back and

23:21

didn't come back and didn't come back

23:23

and didn't come back and didn't come

23:26

back and didn't come back. So back

23:28

home in Burnsville, Kristen actually often took

23:30

late night walks by herself. Her and

23:32

her family lived on a subdivision, so

23:34

it was like a little safer to

23:37

go for a late night walk. So

23:39

she mostly, most likely didn't think twice

23:41

about going for a walk to clear

23:43

her head out here. But when Kristen

23:45

still hadn't returned after two hours, the

23:47

group at the party started to get

23:50

concerned. So they set on on foot

23:52

to look around the area for her.

23:54

And when she still hadn't been found

23:56

by the following afternoon, James called the

23:58

state police to report her missing. I'm

24:01

sorry, what? So she goes out for

24:03

a walk at around like a little

24:05

after 11 p.m. She doesn't return by

24:07

1 a.m. They go out and look

24:09

for her and they don't find her

24:11

and then presumably everybody just goes to

24:14

sleep and wakes up the next afternoon

24:16

and then calls the police. That's weird.

24:18

That is weird. That's weird. I'm not...

24:20

I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. That's

24:22

just weird. Objectively, that's fucking weird. Yeah.

24:25

Like if my... if I'm at a

24:27

party and it's not even like my

24:29

friend it's just like somebody at the

24:31

party and I hear that they're missing

24:33

and we go look for them and

24:35

don't find them when we don't find

24:38

them that's when we call the police

24:40

yeah we say okay we gotta call

24:42

the cops now because right and there

24:44

was plenty of people there that like

24:46

at least one of them should have

24:48

been like hey I think we should

24:51

call the police and followed through without

24:53

such a for sure for sure weird

24:55

yeah So after receiving the very late

24:57

report that Kristen O'Connell had gone missing,

24:59

a search team of about 90 police

25:02

officers and firefighters from four towns set

25:04

out from the Vermeer's house to look

25:06

for Kristen. About 90 minutes later, the

25:08

team found Kristen's body. She was not

25:10

alive. They found her body about 300

25:12

yards into a cornfield along Route 139,

25:15

which is a rural road about a

25:17

quarter mile from the trailer where she'd

25:19

last been seen. Ovid Fire Chief Robert

25:21

Favre said, I know that's what you

25:23

go on searches to find, but this

25:26

is an awful way to end it.

25:28

Usually when you go out on these

25:30

things, you find out the person you're

25:32

looking for is hundreds of miles away,

25:34

but you never know till you find

25:36

it. That's awful. Yeah. When she was

25:39

discovered, Kristen was fully nude. Her throat

25:41

had been slashed and she had also

25:43

been stabbed several times in the chest.

25:45

Oh my God! The scene had the

25:47

hallmarks of a sexual assault, but it

25:49

would quickly be determined that she had

25:52

not been raped. Oh wow. Major Richard

25:54

Tonsey told reporters, the apparent intentions may

25:56

have been a sexual attack, but it

25:58

may not have taken place, eventually ending

26:00

instead with murder. A few days later,

26:03

the medical examiner would label Kristen's death,

26:05

obviously a murder, a homicide, and there

26:07

was evidence that she had, quote, put

26:09

up a tremendous fight for her life.

26:11

And it was also determined that at

26:13

that time she had no drugs and

26:16

no alcohol in her system. So she

26:18

was fully sober. A cursory search of

26:20

the scene didn't really turn up as

26:22

much as far as evidence and there

26:24

was no sign of a murder weapon

26:27

anywhere in the area. Investigators took soil

26:29

samples, blood samples, and what little physical

26:31

evidence they could find and sent it

26:33

to a state lab in Binghampton for

26:35

testing. In the meantime, the press and

26:37

public became very concerned that there was

26:40

now a killer amongst them. A few

26:42

months earlier in May, convicted murderer Hugh

26:44

Column and Bernard Welch had escaped from

26:46

a Chicago correctional facility and were believed

26:48

to have fled to the northeast. So...

26:51

That was very concerning for people. They

26:53

were like, oh shit, did these two

26:55

have something to do with it? Welch

26:57

was arrested in Philadelphia in early August,

26:59

but at the time of Kristen's murder,

27:01

Colom was still on the loose. And

27:04

Tonzi told reporters, we've got an idea

27:06

that the murderer could have been in

27:08

the area and we've got a murder.

27:10

But he clearly stated that Colom was

27:12

not a suspect. Which is interesting. That

27:14

is interesting. A few months later, they

27:17

actually did arrest Colombe after he robbed

27:19

a bank in Mississippi. So he was

27:21

definitively ruled out as a suspect at

27:23

that point. So after Kristen's body was

27:25

removed from the field and all the

27:28

evidence was gathered, Tonsi and the other

27:30

state police investigators started interviewing witnesses and

27:32

just conducting like door-to-door canvases, basically. Everybody

27:34

at the party was quickly ruled out

27:36

as a suspect. Tonsi told reporters everybody

27:38

at that party came from well-to-do families

27:41

in this community. They are respected in

27:43

this area. Okay. Good to know. While

27:45

being from a wealthy family is hardly

27:47

evidence of innocence, because as we know,

27:49

wealthy people kill people too, and people

27:52

from wealthy families kill people too, quite

27:54

frequently actually. The group had been together

27:56

all evening, and with the exception of

27:58

James going out for pizza shortly before

28:00

Kristen left on the walk, none of

28:02

them had left the trailer other than

28:05

to go look for her. Okay. And

28:07

the medical examiner did place the time

28:09

of death somewhere between midnight and 1.30

28:11

a.m. and that was after James had

28:13

already gotten back to the party. Okay.

28:15

So there's that. Yeah. And this time

28:18

of death is was also supported by

28:20

what neighbors described as a quote unquote

28:22

horrific scream heard in the direction of

28:24

the cornfield between 1215 and 1230 a.

28:26

Now here's my call the police. Call

28:29

the police. police when you hear a

28:31

blood curtling scream in a cornfield, okay?

28:33

Well, and also if neighbors of this

28:35

family heard the scream, why didn't the

28:37

group? Why didn't the group, why didn't

28:39

the group on the, in the trailer?

28:42

valid. That's a valid question. Any sense

28:44

to me? Yeah, that's a valid question.

28:46

Did they hear the scream and then

28:48

that's when they went out looking out

28:50

looking, and then that's when they went

28:53

out looking for her for hours. Hmm.

28:55

Hmm. It's just weird. It's just all

28:57

that they got ruled out. They got

28:59

ruled out as suspects, but. But there's

29:01

just still some lingering questions. Yeah, and

29:03

it also happened quickly in my opinion.

29:06

Yeah. So even though they had been

29:08

ruled out as suspects in her murder,

29:10

it remains unclear why Kristen left the

29:12

party near midnight to go for a

29:14

walk in an area very unfamiliar to

29:17

her. Well, I think that's the thing.

29:19

It's like we're not pointing fingers and

29:21

anyone. It's just like there's some unanswered

29:23

questions that it doesn't seem like. had

29:25

enough attention. Yeah, exactly. That could be

29:27

missing pieces to a puzzle that may

29:30

not include them being part of it.

29:32

Yeah. It's just like, why weren't all

29:34

the pieces put together? Yeah, and also

29:36

just like, in retrospect, don't let somebody

29:38

go for a walk alone when they're

29:40

not familiar with this area. Yeah, that's

29:43

I'm not understanding. It's just sad that

29:45

she didn't have a friend. Yeah, that

29:47

makes me sad. And the one person

29:49

who was supposed to be her friend

29:51

had like kind of turned this trip

29:54

into a trip into a trip into

29:56

shitty, very shitty for, very shitty for

29:58

her. State Police Investigator Jeffrey Arnold said

30:00

in 2009 she did not do drugs.

30:02

It was not a drinker She may

30:04

have been uncomfortable at the party because

30:07

alcohol was involved and decided to take

30:09

a walk. Yeah, that makes sense. Others

30:11

suggested that, you know, Kristen was probably

30:13

upset that James had just told her

30:15

about his girlfriend and she maybe wanted

30:18

to go clear her head. And then

30:20

other people say, you know, maybe she

30:22

just wanted to get some air. She

30:24

didn't plan to be gone long. And

30:26

also, she was barefoot when she left

30:28

the party, which suggests that she didn't

30:31

plan to be gone for very long.

30:33

Yeah. Interesting, right? Very interesting. So whatever

30:35

reason for leaving the party, investigator soon

30:37

learned that Kristen might not have been

30:39

alone for the duration of her walk.

30:41

Despite being a rural Route 139 was

30:44

commonly used by locals as a shortcut

30:46

across town, and it also tended to

30:48

be busy with traffic going to the

30:50

Seneca Army Depot and the Golden Buck,

30:52

which is a popular restaurant and bar

30:55

and ovid. Sergeant Thomas Warren said, a

30:57

couple of passing motorists have told us

30:59

they saw people in two cars talking

31:01

to Kristen along the road at about

31:03

1145 p.m. Other witnesses reported seeing a

31:05

late 70s, greener blue sedan on Route

31:08

139, right around the time of the

31:10

murder, with one or possibly two male

31:12

occupants. And some of the witnesses told

31:14

police they believed the occupants may have

31:16

been trying to lure Kristen into the

31:19

car. Oh no. I mean, that's scary.

31:21

That she's just walking by herself. in

31:23

the dark yeah barefoot yeah like that's

31:25

in an unknown area yeah several witnesses

31:27

reported seeing the car with two men

31:29

inside but others told investigators they saw

31:32

quote two young white males walking behind

31:34

O'Connell shortly before police believed she was

31:36

killed oh that's so scary so there

31:38

might have been two people in that

31:40

car and then later people said they

31:43

saw two people walking behind her oh

31:45

that's really scary yeah The

32:12

AT&T guarantee means connectivity you

32:14

can depend on. Deals you

32:16

want and service you deserve,

32:18

or they'll make it right.

32:20

Visit att.com/guarantee to learn more.

32:23

AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms

32:25

and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee

32:27

for details. Hey, weirdos. I'm

32:29

Lindsay Graham from the podcast American

32:32

History Tellers. And if you're still

32:34

relaying from Ash and Elena's episode

32:36

on the Boston Molasses Disaster, and

32:38

you want to dive even deeper,

32:40

you're in How

47:36

far would you go to protect your

47:38

legacy? Scamfluencers is a weekly podcast from

47:40

Wondery that takes you along the twists

47:43

and turns of the most infamous scams

47:45

of all time, the impact on victims,

47:47

and what's left once the facade falls

47:49

away. Back in the 80s, a man

47:52

named Billy Mitchell achieved what many thought

47:54

was impossible, a perfect Pac-Man score, and

47:56

world record in Donkey Kong. He became

47:59

the face of competitive... arcade gaming and

48:01

built an empire around his achievements. But

48:03

he was so obsessed with being the

48:05

best that he was willing to do

48:08

anything to hold on to his high

48:10

score. When a 2007 documentary called The

48:12

King of Kong pushed him into the

48:14

mainstream spotlight, it exposed some troubling behavior.

48:17

Mitchell allegedly manipulated scores, colluded with referees,

48:19

and systematically blocked other players from breaking

48:21

his records. Was Billy really the King

48:24

of Kong, or was his entire legacy

48:26

built on deception? Follow scam fluencers on

48:28

the Wundery app or wherever you get

48:30

your podcasts. After

48:37

six months of investigation, police became decidedly

48:39

less optimistic in their prospects of catching

48:42

the killer. Senior investigator Robert Fainor said

48:44

in February of 1986, we've got very,

48:46

very little to go on. The physical

48:49

evidence is almost nothing. We've got no

48:51

fingerprints, no suspects, no identification, no leads,

48:53

and no witnesses. Damn. By that point,

48:56

investigators had traveled to six different states

48:58

to interview potential witnesses and review similar

49:00

cases even, but after doing so. they

49:03

were still no closer to cracking the

49:05

case. Wow, this is brutal. And it

49:07

really isn't a lack of effort, it

49:10

seems. Yeah, it seems like they were

49:12

really trying. Right. In the months and

49:14

now years that followed Kristen's death, the

49:17

investigation lost steam, of course. But throughout

49:19

that period, her parents, Phyllis and Michael

49:21

O'Connell, kept their own investigation going of

49:24

their daughter's murder in hopes of finding

49:26

the killer. Yeah. Almost immediately upon learning

49:28

of Kristen's death, they hired a private

49:31

investigator, but the result of that investigator's

49:33

report has not been made public. In

49:35

August of 1986, a year after Kristen's

49:38

murder, Phyllis and Michael actually traveled to

49:40

Ovid in the hope that their presence

49:42

might inspire somebody to come forward. On

49:45

a visit to the crime scene, Phyllis

49:47

told a reporter, you always hope that

49:49

you can see something nobody else has

49:52

noticed. Of course. I can't imagine being

49:54

like in that position. They must have

49:56

been so frustrated. Yeah, still be so

49:59

frustrated. And just the... like desperate for

50:01

anything. To the O'Connell's, the lack of

50:03

progress in the case was unfathomable, which

50:06

obviously Michael said, it might not have

50:08

been a person who lives in Ovid,

50:10

but someone who lives 20 or even

50:13

100 miles away, but knew the area

50:15

around here. It's just very hard for

50:17

us to grasp the concept of this

50:20

being a random thing. Yeah. Of course.

50:22

Investigators did acknowledge that it was possible

50:24

that Kristen was the victim of a

50:27

serial killer and they insisted that they

50:29

were checking similar crimes reported around the

50:31

country, but still, they weren't getting anything.

50:34

Jesus, really? I know. So the following

50:36

August 1987, the O'Connells were back in

50:38

Ovid on the second anniversary now of

50:41

Kristen's murder, and this time they were

50:43

in the company of two psychics that

50:45

they hired back home in Burnsville. I

50:48

don't believe them. I don't either. At

50:50

that, two years of unanswered questions, I

50:52

would be. going to psychics myself. Michael

50:54

told a reporter the information they have

50:57

supplied us with thus far has provided

50:59

a couple of very strong leads and

51:01

we hope this will be resolved in

51:04

a short period of time. Oh man,

51:06

the hope. I know. The psychics agreed

51:08

with Michael O'Connell sentiment though. One of

51:11

them said the feelings and psychic impressions

51:13

in this area are as strong as

51:15

they were two years ago. My impression

51:18

is that there are people who have

51:20

substantial knowledge of this murder. I mean...

51:22

I don't think that was like... You

51:25

know how I feel about psychics at

51:27

crime scenes? I think that's a little,

51:29

uh... I could also say that. That's

51:32

the thing. Yeah, it's like, okay, that

51:34

wasn't... I don't know if that was

51:36

a prediction so much as a commentary

51:39

on the case. It's just something that

51:41

is common knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. But the

51:43

psychics who came to Ovid with the

51:46

O'Connell's may have given them hope that

51:48

their daughter's murder would be solved, but

51:50

as we know we're And this is

51:53

awful. In 1993, tragedy struck again when

51:55

Michael O'Connell died unexpectedly at the age

51:57

of 51. Oh, super young. Super young.

52:00

He never obviously learned who was responsible

52:02

for his daughter's death. Damn. Yeah. So

52:04

now for years Kristen O'Connell's case was

52:07

shelved as investigators shifted their attention to

52:09

new and more pressing matters. But then

52:11

in early 1996, a hair sample found

52:14

on Kristen's body led investigators to a

52:16

man named Gary Harris. He was a

52:18

former Ovid resident who was 15 at

52:21

the time of the murder. Okay. According

52:23

to Seneca County District Attorney Donna Caffe,

52:25

Harris was quote, seen in the area

52:28

where O'Connell was staying on the night

52:30

of her murder. Huh. At the time

52:32

of the murder, the Harris were only

52:35

identifiable as belonging to a black male,

52:37

but Harris came to the attention of

52:39

investigators after he was arrested for an

52:42

armed robbery in New York in 1996.

52:44

Okay. Unfortunately, though, a month after announcing

52:46

Harris as a suspect, the lab results

52:49

came back as inconclusive on the hair

52:51

sample. Ugh. And investigators were forced to

52:53

rule Harris out as a suspect. Although

52:56

nearly 15 years would pass before the

52:58

O'Connell case was back in the news,

53:00

the testing of the hair sample in

53:03

1996 was a strong indication that forensic

53:05

evidence could very well be the thing

53:07

that solved Kristen's murder. And I still

53:10

believe it could be. Oh man. By

53:12

the time the case was back in

53:14

the headlines, 25 years had passed and

53:17

in that time, like we know, scientific

53:19

and technological advances had made it possible

53:21

to solve cold cases with the evidence

53:24

that had just been sitting on... shelves

53:26

for decades. Yeah, absolutely. I've seen it

53:28

happen so many times. Look at the

53:31

Golden State killer. Yeah. In Kristen's case,

53:33

like I said, blood samples and skin

53:35

fragments had been collected from her body

53:38

that could lead to her killer. But

53:40

as it turned out, things wouldn't be

53:42

quite as easy as submitting the samples

53:45

for DNA testing. Why? In August 2009,

53:47

New York State Police had received approval

53:49

of funds for up to $40,000 in

53:52

order to hire a Dutch forensic lab

53:54

known for their pioneering work and touch

53:56

DNA. Let's go. And that's a type

53:59

of analysis that can identify an individual

54:01

from a smallest. But the problem was

54:03

that the New York State Health Department

54:06

refused to allow investigators to contract with

54:08

the Amsterdam-based company because they weren't certified

54:10

in New York. Come on. In his

54:13

statement to the press, District Attorney Richard

54:15

Swinehart told reporters, we feel this is

54:17

our last best effort to solve this

54:20

case. We are very frustrated with the

54:22

bureaucracy of the Department of Health and

54:24

that they won't take a world-leading lab

54:26

where the lab people have testified in

54:29

other states in our country as experts

54:31

on homicide cases and won't let them

54:33

at least examine the evidence while they're

54:36

being certified. Yeah, that's New York, get

54:38

it fucking together. That's weird. That's suspicious.

54:40

That's real fucking suspicious. Yeah. Why the

54:43

fuck? Why? Why? Yeah. Are you kidding

54:45

me? That doesn't make any sense. That's

54:47

infuriating. It doesn't make any sense. It

54:50

doesn't make any sense. Kristen's family was

54:52

equally frustrated with the state's decision to

54:54

deny the testing until the lab applied

54:57

for and received certification in New York.

54:59

Kristen's brother Kyle O'Connor said they're railroading

55:01

for their own purposes. There could be

55:04

no other reason. Yeah, why the fuck

55:06

would you stop that? And he said

55:08

they're, and this is a quote from

55:11

him, they're covering something up. They haven't

55:13

come up with a good viable reason

55:15

why they should not be allowed. And

55:18

it's wild to me that they're like,

55:20

you know you look shady. So if

55:22

you're not covering something up, guess what?

55:25

You look like you're covering something up.

55:27

You look shady. So it's like you

55:29

should probably move this forward so that

55:32

you can stop everybody from thinking you

55:34

did something fucked up. Yeah, exactly. Because

55:36

right now, I think you did something

55:39

fucked up. Well, the family was again

55:41

disappointed in 2010 when they learned that

55:43

a forensic scientist who had been named

55:46

in an evidence falsification case possibly handled

55:48

evidence in Kristen's case. Shut the fuck

55:50

up. This scientist is said to have

55:53

falsified data in multiple cases and then

55:55

went on to falsify records to cover

55:57

up that fake data. I

56:00

am speechless. Which like, why? Like why?

56:03

Why? Why? You are fucking with people's

56:05

lives. Like just do your job. Phyllis

56:07

said, I mean my god, this is

56:09

an important job they're doing. Yeah. And

56:12

how could they allow this and not

56:14

be supervised properly? It's just beyond me.

56:16

Yeah. But what I will tell you

56:18

is that there's a petition we are

56:21

going to share on socials and in

56:23

the show notes and it surrounds all

56:25

of the DNA testing and Christine's case

56:28

and it goes into more detail about

56:30

the issues that the family has faced

56:32

trying to get the DNA tested. Okay.

56:34

And importantly, most importantly, is asking the

56:37

New York State Health Commissioner to approve

56:39

that lab. Let's go, motherfucker. I'm going

56:41

to share it and we are all

56:43

going to sign this. What are you

56:46

doing? Come on. Like come on. This

56:48

literal DNA. Like what are you doing?

56:50

And it's degrading the more it sits.

56:52

Exactly. And it's like you're just waiting

56:55

for it to degrade? That's it. Well,

56:57

that's exactly it. What the book? Also

56:59

this specific lab? Like, they're pioneers in

57:01

this. They are exactly. Like, they know

57:04

what they're doing with this. So it's

57:06

weird that you're not allowing them to

57:08

even look at it while they're getting

57:10

certain. And like, like, like, like, like,

57:13

like, like, not even really giving a

57:15

valid reason. No. It's shady. And if

57:17

you don't look shady, let them test

57:20

it. Yes, you don't want to look

57:22

shady, then let them do it. Despite

57:24

the best efforts of the O'Connell family

57:26

though, investigators even, and several high-profile politicians

57:29

actually, it appears that the skin fragments

57:31

discovered on Kristen's body still have not

57:33

been submitted for DNA testing. That's shameful

57:35

as fuck. Yeah, that is shameful. Many

57:38

many, like even politicians have been calling

57:40

on the New York State Health Department

57:42

being like, just allow this, just sign

57:44

off on it. Can't let up on

57:47

that. But now, 40 years after her

57:49

daughter's death. O'Connell worries that her daughter's

57:51

case will never be solved because of

57:53

this. Oh, we can't let that happen.

57:56

And soon she worries that there will

57:58

be nobody left to advocate for Kristen.

58:00

In 2023, she said, I promised Kristen

58:03

till the day I die I will

58:05

be after who killed her. And after

58:07

four decades her message remains the same

58:09

as it did the day she learned

58:12

her daughter was murdered. She said don't

58:14

keep secrets, don't keep something like this

58:16

going because maybe the next person might

58:18

be your daughter and you will know

58:21

the kind of pain it is to

58:23

lose a daughter and especially through murder.

58:25

That just like destroys my soul. Everyone

58:27

go sign that petition. I'm gonna, we're

58:30

gonna put it in the show notes

58:32

and we'll share it on socials as

58:34

well. It's a long link, so if

58:36

I read it here, it'll get lost.

58:39

So I'll put it in here, it'll

58:41

get lost. So I'll put it in

58:43

socials and again on the show notes.

58:46

Yep, so it'll be right at the

58:48

bottom of this episode in the show

58:50

notes, you'll be able to see it

58:52

and link, because... I wish I had

58:55

that shit everywhere. I want this. I

58:57

want them to have to move on

58:59

this. I want them to have to

59:01

move on this and I want Phyllis

59:04

at least to be able to. I

59:06

want Phyllis to see the movement. Right.

59:08

And not have to live every day

59:10

worrying that she's going to pass away

59:13

someday without knowing what happened to her

59:15

daughter. And that this DNA is sitting

59:17

there who has the technology. To at

59:19

least try to do this. Right. Right.

59:22

Just give it a shot. What the

59:24

fuck are we doing? Stopping murders from

59:26

being solved through red tape. Fuck that.

59:29

Yeah, it shouldn't even be a thing.

59:31

Fuck that. It shouldn't be a thing.

59:33

So definitely sign that petition and also

59:35

anybody with information about this case because

59:38

somebody out there knows something. Yeah. Any

59:40

information, anybody with any information is asked

59:42

to contact the New York State Police

59:44

and that number is 585-984125. I want

59:47

this case to be solved. I want

59:49

them to submit that DNA. I want...

59:51

that to at least be put into

59:53

motion. Yeah, it's gone. Nobody's saying that

59:56

it's like that 100% it's gonna work,

59:58

but why the fuck not try? Why

1:00:00

not try? Why not try? And like,

1:00:02

hey, politicians and everybody and whoever's like

1:00:05

red-taping this, if you're listening? Her dad

1:00:07

died without knowing what happened here. Her

1:00:09

mom shouldn't have to die without knowing

1:00:11

what happened to her daughter. And what

1:00:14

if this was your kid? Like her

1:00:16

mom said, what if this was your

1:00:18

kid? Would you want that DNA sitting

1:00:21

on a shelf and just because of

1:00:23

red tape and bullshit bureaucracy, it doesn't

1:00:25

get submitted to a pioneering lab that

1:00:27

could potentially give you the answers you

1:00:30

need? Would you be fine with that

1:00:32

because you'd be like, was that what

1:00:34

you would do? No. Like no come

1:00:36

on if it was for you you'd

1:00:39

be slicing through that red tape exactly

1:00:41

because it's not yours you're you don't

1:00:43

give a shit, but put yourself in

1:00:45

somebody else's shoes empathy people so frustrating.

1:00:48

I know it really is I really

1:00:50

I hope that we get news soon

1:00:52

that just want this to move forward

1:00:54

it's gotta it's gotta yeah 40 years

1:00:57

and her family has no fucking answers

1:00:59

like come on like her parents lost

1:01:01

a child her brother lost a sister

1:01:04

yeah Let's go. And somebody is just

1:01:06

out there walking around. Let's go, girls.

1:01:08

Let's go. Let's get this moving. So

1:01:10

you guys are fucking powerful. You are.

1:01:13

So by the way, yeah, you are

1:01:15

powerful. Go sign this petition everybody. Yeah.

1:01:17

Because we asked if you were able

1:01:19

to to share and donate to Alice

1:01:22

and Botha fundraiser. She blew it up.

1:01:24

Surpassed her goal. Yeah, you blew it

1:01:26

up. You blew it up. You're powerful

1:01:28

as fuck. We can get this shit

1:01:31

to happen. You get shit moving and

1:01:33

you get shit done. One thing you

1:01:35

do it before. One thing about morbid

1:01:37

listeners, they get shit done. So we

1:01:40

know you guys can do this. You're

1:01:42

bad-ass mother fuckers. And you give a

1:01:44

shit. So. Do it exactly and with

1:01:47

that being said we hope that you

1:01:49

keep listening and we hope you keep

1:01:51

it weird Keep it

1:01:53

so weird that you

1:01:56

sign you out of

1:01:58

this petition and

1:02:00

you get everyone in

1:02:02

your goddamn life

1:02:05

to sign that shit,

1:02:07

in your god damn life to sign

1:02:09

that shit too. You

1:03:08

If you Morbid, you you can listen

1:03:10

early and ad right now now

1:03:12

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app

1:03:14

on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can

1:03:16

listen ad -free on Amazon Amazon Before

1:03:18

you go, tell us about

1:03:20

yourself by filling out a short

1:03:23

survey a short.com wondery.com/survey. At Audi Columbus, we we

1:03:25

have the perfect luxury vehicle

1:03:27

for you. Our award -winning service

1:03:29

ensures a premium experience when buying

1:03:31

or maintaining your car. The when

1:03:33

process is entirely digital, whether

1:03:35

you're buying online or in -store.

1:03:37

Right now, get a 2025 you're

1:03:39

A3 lease for in store, a month

1:03:42

for 36 months A3 $3 ,725

1:03:44

down. Located by the airport, you

1:03:46

can easily drop by visit Audi.com.

1:03:48

Discover the service that sets us

1:03:50

apart. Come see why it's

1:03:52

better to buy at buy at buyers. for

1:03:54

details, offerings, 331,25.