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Supernatural, only on Supernatural,

0:29

for team. For

0:44

20 years and counting, welcome to

0:47

Muggle Cast, your weekly ride into

0:49

the Wizarding World Fandon. I'm Micah.

0:51

I'm Eric. And I'm Laura. Why

0:54

do I feel like Fred and

0:56

George after trying the aging potion

0:59

all of a sudden? Long, gray

1:01

beard. As soon as Micah said,

1:03

it's our 20th year of podcasting.

1:05

And Andrew's just too young and

1:08

good-looking to be here. He was

1:10

afraid of feeling old so he's

1:12

not here but by next week

1:15

I think we'll convince him to

1:17

join us on the drone again.

1:19

See I thought he wasn't here because

1:22

this was past his bedtime now.

1:24

Maybe he is too old. There

1:26

are many reasons but neither say

1:29

our fearless leader will return next

1:31

week. Yes so we will do

1:33

our best in his absence and

1:35

just a couple quick announcements to

1:37

start off 2025 with us. Fluing

1:40

into a new decade for our

1:42

show, we could really use your

1:44

support while we go chapter by

1:46

chapter through the Harry Potter books

1:48

and cover any and all news

1:50

concerning the Harry Potter TV

1:53

show. So visit patron.com/muggle

1:55

cast to pledge and enjoy

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instant access to lots of

1:59

great benefit. including, I wasn't ready

2:01

for that, bonus muggle cast, which we

2:03

have a new one, which we will

2:06

be recording right after our

2:08

episode tonight, speaking of the new

2:10

year, all about New Year's resolutions.

2:12

And why don't they celebrate New

2:14

Year's in the Wizarding World? At

2:16

least as far as we know,

2:18

we never hear about it. They

2:20

don't make resolutions. They're not trying

2:23

to be better. I can think

2:25

of a few characters who absolutely

2:27

do not do resolutions, Dumbledore, a

2:29

few others. Makes sense. I was

2:31

going to say Hogwarts just is beyond

2:33

help when it comes to security so

2:36

they don't make any resolutions. That's right.

2:38

But we do two of those every

2:40

month for our patrons and they're always

2:42

a lot of fun. Let's us unwind

2:44

a little bit. Sometimes we get to

2:46

do topics and we can say things

2:48

because it's beyond a paywall. That's

2:50

my his favorite thing about it.

2:53

It really is. It's really all

2:55

about me, bonus muggle cast, and

2:57

my ability to be totally

2:59

unfiltered 100% of the time. But

3:01

with that said, let's get back

3:04

into chapter by chapter. It's been

3:06

a couple weeks because... It's been

3:08

a year. We haven't done chapter

3:10

by chapter in a year, a calendar

3:12

year. So we will kick things off

3:15

with Order of the Phoenix, Chapter

3:17

11, the sorting Hat's new song

3:19

for us. Um, singing is not

3:21

one of my talents. So

3:24

no. Kariyoki? Nah. Not even

3:26

close. You really, you really don't

3:28

want it. I promise you.

3:30

What about a chapter analysis?

3:33

I can do that for

3:35

you. Okay. Yeah. So I

3:37

love that we're starting a

3:39

new year of Hogwarts and

3:41

starting a new year on the show. as

3:43

well just for the listeners who

3:45

might be curious we last discussed

3:47

this chapter chapter 11 sorting hats

3:50

new song nearly 250 episodes ago

3:52

i'm just gonna keep saying things

3:54

that make us feel old that

3:56

was on muggle cast number four

3:58

hundred and four 46 titled

4:00

Going Rogue, which debuted

4:03

on December 16th, 2019,

4:05

and here is, we

4:07

have everyone's new favorite

4:09

segment for the show,

4:12

the Mughal Cast Time

4:14

Turner segment for that

4:16

chapter. Three turns should

4:18

do it, anything. Good

4:21

luck. I

4:23

liked what nearly headless Nick

4:25

said about the hat being

4:27

able to pick up things

4:30

because it sits in double

4:32

doors office. So I wonder

4:35

if you know prior to

4:37

each year just dumble door

4:39

just kind of sit down

4:42

with the hat and be

4:44

like hey look this is

4:46

how it's gonna go this

4:49

year and make sure you

4:51

hit these points and I'll

4:53

put you on like a

4:56

really comfy pillow for the

4:58

rest of the year and

5:00

I'll brush you I'll wash

5:03

you. I'll keep the office

5:05

at your desired temperature. Oh

5:07

my god. I'll buy you

5:10

another hat that you can

5:12

hang out with. So you

5:14

can make baby skull caps

5:17

or something like that. Oh

5:19

my. When two hats love

5:21

each other. Well, unfortunately, we

5:24

are going to dive into

5:26

our chapter with a maybe

5:28

not so fun talk about

5:31

festivals. I was wondering if

5:33

I could get one of

5:35

you to read this excerpt

5:38

here at the beginning of

5:40

the chapter. Sure. Harry had

5:42

once before had the experience

5:45

of seeing something that Ron

5:47

could not, but that had

5:49

been a reflection in a

5:52

mirror, something much more insubstantial

5:54

than a hundred, very solid-looking

5:56

beasts. strong enough to pull

5:59

a fleet of heiress said

6:01

was insubstantial by comparison because

6:03

we have to remember what

6:05

he was seeing in the

6:07

mirror. He was seeing his

6:10

dead family members in particular

6:12

his parents and I thought

6:14

this was a nice connecting

6:16

the threads moment because death

6:18

is a theme in both. of these areas

6:20

with thestrels and the mirror

6:22

of Arisad. But in both

6:24

cases, even though Ron can

6:27

see the mirror of Arisad,

6:29

he can't see what Harry

6:31

sees. So it's not quite

6:33

that Harry has never

6:35

experienced this before. It's just

6:38

that Ron at least knew

6:40

the mirror of Arisad existed.

6:42

Yeah. See. It's interesting

6:44

Laura because I read this a

6:46

slightly different way in that, you

6:48

know, Harry sees the Thestrels, he's

6:50

like, these are solid looking, they're

6:52

pulling a hundred carriages. I think

6:54

I agree that reading it back

6:56

right now, it reads like he's

6:59

saying, man. Ron couldn't see the

7:01

mirror, but that was a mirror. This is

7:03

a hundred horse-like beings. Right. But for me,

7:05

I thought for a minute there that it

7:07

could just be that Harry realizes something is

7:10

pulling the carriages. Like, this gives some level

7:12

of explanation to what wasn't there. It's never

7:14

a good feeling when you can see

7:16

something someone else can't, but something's pulling

7:18

the car, like it's solid. He finally

7:20

has a piece of the puzzle that

7:22

others don't see, but unfortunately it's not

7:25

going to get any better for him

7:27

because I'm thinking of the end of

7:29

the end of this book. here's to

7:31

connect the thread with the veil and

7:33

the voices that he hears behind it

7:35

that no one else hears. Except maybe

7:37

Luna. Luna, right? Yeah, oh yeah. I

7:39

think this is a bit of a bad

7:42

comparison on Harry's Park though because

7:44

if if I were him I

7:46

would liken it to hearing the

7:48

basilisk in Chamber of Secrets, right?

7:51

That was something that nobody else.

7:53

Yeah, could hear. So Harry, here's

7:55

four other examples of when you

7:58

were the only one. and then

8:00

experience something and your friends couldn't

8:03

keep up. So, but yeah, it's

8:05

a good point. Well, once we're

8:07

on the platform, we find ourselves

8:10

in a little bit of an

8:12

awkward situation with our new friend

8:14

Luna because the trio very quickly

8:17

notices that Hagrid is not on

8:19

the platform collecting first years to

8:21

go across the lake. It's Professor

8:24

Grubley Plank. They're very concerned, of

8:26

course, about. where Haggard is, and

8:29

Luna opines that, hey, maybe hopefully

8:31

he's left. He's a terrible teacher.

8:33

And when Harry and Ron round

8:36

on her, she's like, oh, I'm

8:38

kind of surprised that you like

8:40

him. He's kind of a joke

8:43

in Ravencloth. So I'm just imagining

8:45

the Ravenclaws sitting around the common

8:47

room being petty as hell about

8:50

Haggard. This is the Ravenclaw common

8:52

room tonight once news spreads. It's

8:54

funny because as much as this

8:57

is shots fired and the characters

8:59

have to go into defense mode

9:02

for their friend Hagred, notably Harry

9:04

and Ron, and Ginny for some

9:06

reason, Hermione is like caught in

9:09

the middle and doesn't immediately leap

9:11

to Hagred's defense. That said, Luna

9:13

brings up, I think, a valuable

9:16

point, which is that if the

9:18

Raven clause, like the entire house,

9:20

consider Hagred a joke, It's probably

9:23

because he's not a very good

9:25

teacher. Harry and Ron aren't really

9:28

arguing that fact. He's their friend,

9:30

but like, here's a house that

9:32

dedicates itself to wisdom and knowledge

9:35

and learning, and I think that

9:37

Luna's admission here, maybe tactless or

9:39

ill-informed or, you know, she didn't

9:42

read the room first before she

9:44

said, is ultimately correct and fair.

9:46

And, you know, if they're not

9:49

getting an education from this teacher,

9:51

It's a waste of their time

9:53

and frankly I feel bad for

9:56

all the raven claws that have

9:58

had to have years. now of

10:01

Hagred's teaching. Wow. So, well,

10:03

standing up for your friends

10:05

is a theme that we see

10:07

in this chapter. We see it

10:09

a little bit later on when

10:12

both Ron and Neville stand

10:14

up for Harry. But I do

10:16

agree with you, Eric. The one

10:18

thing I'll say, though, is I wonder

10:21

how many teachers rise to

10:23

the level of Ravenclaw

10:25

approval. Yeah. Seems like they're

10:27

a tough crowd. They should all

10:29

rise to the level of raven

10:31

claw approval. Get specific teachers

10:33

in. Have it be like the AP class

10:36

you elected for and never took. I'm

10:38

speaking about myself. But like there were

10:40

at least teachers. They made that available

10:42

to our student body. It's a good

10:44

question because I don't think and this will

10:47

go along with the theme of this

10:49

chapter that we're going to be discussing. A

10:51

lot of these teachers wouldn't measure up

10:53

to your point. I, you know. But I

10:55

think more importantly it's meant

10:58

to build on Luna's character.

11:00

The character that we were

11:02

introduced to on the train, she doesn't

11:04

have a filter. She speaks her mind

11:06

and in this case, she's right. And

11:08

it's nice to get a perspective

11:11

too from a totally different house

11:13

on somebody like Hagrid. Well that's

11:15

because like for the first time

11:17

too, I get that perspective and

11:19

I'm like, oh. She's right, like all of Ravenclaw really

11:21

must think Hagrid's a joke. Like, Slitterin would say it to his

11:24

face and make fun of him and make him trip up, but

11:26

like, Ravenclaw, I think at the end of the day, doesn't need

11:28

to be mean about it. They just really want education that isn't

11:30

being gotten. I'm thinking of all the lessons where Hagrid didn't even

11:32

know what the Scrutes wanted, so he just made everybody

11:34

kind of figure it, kind of figure it, kind of figure it,

11:36

kind of figure it, kind of figure it, kind of figure, kind

11:38

of figure, kind of figure, kind of figure, kind of figure, kind

11:41

of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind

11:43

of, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

11:45

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

11:47

like, like, ultimately and it's it's upsetting what

11:49

they should have done and grubbly plank too

11:52

just gets a whirlwind of hate and and

11:54

Harry's always glaring at her

11:56

either either outright interrupting her

11:58

classes to go where's Hagred

12:00

all the time, what they should

12:02

do is have Grubbily Blank be

12:05

the professional full-time Care of Magical

12:07

Creatures teacher, maybe even years two

12:09

through seven, and then let Hagred

12:11

do the first year thing since

12:14

he's already got a rapport with

12:16

the first years for carding them

12:18

across the lake every year. That

12:20

should be something that Hagred has,

12:23

because he also has groundskeeping duties.

12:25

Yeah. You know, I almost wonder

12:27

in this moment, in this whole

12:30

exchange. where Hermione is kind of

12:32

begrudgingly agreeing with Luna. I wonder

12:34

if she has this moment of

12:36

discomfort where she's thinking like, gosh,

12:39

this girl seems like a cooke.

12:41

But then she sees she says

12:43

something she agrees with. So I

12:45

wonder if it's a double layered

12:48

uncertainty because she knows she's going

12:50

to be in the dog house

12:52

with Harry and Ron. But she's

12:54

also like, well, if she thinks

12:57

she thinks that she thinks that.

12:59

I don't know. I really like

13:01

Luna as kind of a foil

13:03

to Hermione because Hermione can be

13:06

very rigid and she misses a

13:08

lot sometimes because of that. Yeah,

13:10

she's a breath of fresh air,

13:13

especially in this book. She is

13:15

the total counterbalance to Umbridge. Yeah,

13:17

well I was going to say

13:19

speaking of someone who is not

13:22

a breath of fresh air. We

13:24

will get to her shortly. But

13:26

we're going to jump into an

13:28

analysis of the sorting hat song.

13:31

No, I will not be singing

13:33

it. However, if one of the

13:35

two of you would like to

13:37

sing it, by all means, I

13:40

will not stop you. But there

13:42

are so many interesting tidbits in

13:44

this song that not only have

13:46

to do with the warning that

13:49

the hat is trying to give,

13:51

but with the history of Hogwarts

13:53

and its founders. We just don't

13:56

get a ton of that in

13:58

the series, so stuff like this

14:00

is a real treat. Details like

14:02

the fact that griffendor and slitherin

14:05

were besties, apparently, which

14:07

is really hard to imagine.

14:10

Is it? Kind of, especially,

14:12

I mean, I understand that

14:15

the representations we get of

14:17

the founders are, I feel

14:19

like in a lot of

14:21

ways, they're two-dimensional, right? It's

14:24

like, slitherin, racist, bad,

14:26

griffendor, brave, sword, like

14:28

you know we sure

14:30

they've made the sorting hat

14:32

edit itself for time yeah you

14:35

know before in years past two

14:37

so how about huffle puff Laura

14:39

didn't hear what you were gonna

14:42

characterize them as I mean

14:44

on it huffle puff nice

14:46

patient nice sweet yes

14:49

particularly good finders from what

14:51

I agree yeah but I just

14:53

think it's interesting

14:55

especially given the way this

14:57

song goes. I mean, ultimately, you

14:59

know, we learn about how the

15:01

founders, well, three of the four

15:04

founders had very specific ideas

15:06

of who they thought warranted being

15:08

in their houses. So of course, Slytherin

15:10

wanted all the pure bloods,

15:12

Griffin Dorr wanted the bravest

15:15

of the brave, Ravenclaw wanted

15:17

the most intelligent and Hufflepuff

15:19

said, you know what, I

15:21

think everyone deserves to learn.

15:24

which I feel like must

15:26

have objectively made her the

15:28

best teacher, hands down. That

15:30

was just convenient for the writer

15:32

though too, because after you have

15:34

the first three, you have to

15:37

have somebody take the rest. No?

15:39

Yeah. Well, either that or you offload

15:41

like you delegate to people who are

15:43

less than qualified to the founders. I

15:45

agree, this song is good for for

15:48

many reasons. Previously, I think we've heard

15:50

that the four founders were all friends

15:52

with each other, but this one pairs

15:55

them off. This one says Griffin, Orr,

15:57

and Southern were the ones that were

15:59

close. and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw were

16:02

the others that were closest.

16:04

So I do think there

16:06

are similarities between Southerin and

16:08

Giffendor. I think that maybe

16:10

those personality types are closer

16:12

together than we typically acknowledge.

16:14

So, you know, that also

16:16

makes Southerins falling out that

16:18

much more harrowing, I think,

16:20

for Griefendor, which is after

16:22

all the main. house main

16:25

character of the books. Right.

16:27

Well, the hat of course

16:29

goes into that falling out

16:31

and we know the history

16:33

here, right? Slither in leaves

16:35

and then like what, 300

16:37

years later, the consequences rear

16:39

their ugly head. But the

16:41

hat also acknowledges what its

16:43

primary function is, but expresses

16:45

some doubt. about that function.

16:48

It says, hey, I know

16:50

my only job, literally my

16:52

only job, is to sort

16:54

you all into four different

16:56

houses to separate you, but

16:58

sometimes I worry that that's

17:00

the wrong thing to do

17:02

and that that is breeding

17:04

and creating discord among you

17:06

all that need not be.

17:08

Right. My man wants a

17:11

job change. That's what it

17:13

sounds like to me. Yeah,

17:15

it's in crisis. It's having

17:17

a career crisis. It's time

17:19

to get on LinkedIn and

17:21

start putting some feelers out

17:23

and find a job that

17:25

fits and better aligns with

17:27

its values. Totally. Do you

17:29

think that's why it held

17:31

the sort of griffendor? Was

17:34

it like towards the end

17:36

of the second year? Like

17:38

ransom? Well, no, for Harry.

17:40

Didn't he pull the sort

17:42

of griffendor out of it?

17:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's trying

17:46

to see what else it

17:48

might else it might be.

17:50

you know, good at. He

17:52

was like, hey Elvis, can

17:54

I just, I've been bored,

17:57

I haven't done anything since

17:59

September. Can you get me

18:01

something? Throw me a bone and Dumboldor

18:03

was like, I got a sword. Probably,

18:05

yeah. But it's interesting because like

18:07

Harry, to your point, Laura, it's

18:10

rare that we get this much

18:12

insight into the founders than they

18:14

are kind of two-dimensional. It's bad

18:16

enough that Harry misses sorting a

18:18

couple of years. You know, this

18:20

is maybe the third time he's

18:22

seen it, and it's his fifth

18:24

year at Hogwarts out of six.

18:27

Let's be real. I think that

18:29

that's a reason why we don't

18:31

get it often, but also we're

18:33

told that this is maybe not

18:35

unique for the sorting hat to

18:37

do, but nevertheless is the most

18:39

recent, most time in recent memory

18:41

that it's sort of strayed from

18:43

its straight and narrow path, but

18:45

you wouldn't get this kind of

18:48

commentary, this contemplative, I question

18:50

whether I should split you all

18:52

up. commentary if it wasn't

18:55

100% necessary and I think there's

18:57

some level of like, I guess, trust

18:59

in that from the student

19:01

body. Do you think? Yeah. Dumboldor

19:03

is a hat whisperer and

19:06

these are actually Dumboldor's

19:08

thoughts that are coming through? Maybe.

19:10

I think Dumboldor has been

19:12

contemplative in that same exact

19:14

way, like the sometimes I

19:16

think we sort too soon line,

19:19

has those same kind of echoes.

19:21

The one thing that came to

19:23

mind for me though, and you

19:25

were talking about how Harry hasn't

19:27

really been present at all of

19:29

the sortings, I believe this is

19:32

the last sorting that we get

19:34

in this series, and so this

19:36

is really the sorting hats parting

19:38

words to the school. Now, there's

19:41

no real way unless it's prophetic

19:43

in some capacity to know what's

19:45

to come and deathly hallows, but

19:48

it seems like it does have

19:50

some... sentience to it that

19:52

it does pick up on things

19:54

beyond just what maybe it overhears

19:57

in Dumbledore's office that it can

19:59

actually interpret. those things. And this

20:01

is a warning and it's

20:03

important for us as

20:05

readers because it's basically

20:08

laying out what it thinks

20:10

is important for what's to

20:12

come in the next two books.

20:15

And let's also add that

20:17

each year, although he only

20:19

has one job, each year

20:21

it gets to see inside

20:23

the minds of young students

20:25

and I think that what it

20:27

sees in their minds is talent

20:29

always, of course, oh my goodness,

20:31

yes, but that if honed to

20:34

work together, you could be stronger.

20:36

Like I like the hat sees

20:39

everything it sees, and it's

20:41

one, you know, perhaps parting

20:43

message, like you said, Michael,

20:45

is get along. Like figure

20:47

out how you can work together

20:49

despite the fact that I'm

20:51

splitting you all up. And yeah,

20:53

that message is 100% relevant

20:56

and 100% evergreen. Yeah,

20:58

great points. I do want to

21:00

point out we are getting

21:02

a correction in the discord.

21:05

So the hat did belong

21:07

to Audrey Griffin Dorr. So that

21:09

is why Harry was able to

21:11

pull the sort of Griffin

21:13

Dorr out of it. So

21:16

just wanted to thank Mooney

21:18

Loopin, legalized Gilly Weed. But

21:21

then beyond that, Frank is

21:23

asking in the discord, so

21:25

is it Godrick's voice that we

21:27

hear when the hat speaks? I

21:29

like to think it's its own

21:31

voice. I think, I don't want

21:34

to rob the hat of autonomy.

21:36

I think it's impressive that the

21:38

founders made the hat its own

21:40

sort of sentient being.

21:43

I think that's extremely

21:45

impressive. And if we start

21:47

to say it's Godrick's voice.

21:49

then we kind of make

21:51

the hat less than its

21:54

own thing. Yeah, you know, I

21:56

had a question about

21:58

the sentience. or the

22:00

free will, if you think free will

22:02

is a thing. I know that has

22:04

been a debate that has come up

22:07

on the show before with relation

22:09

to the sorting hat, but I

22:11

do think it's interesting that

22:13

the sorting hat is

22:15

able to do things like

22:17

break from tradition to give

22:20

warnings, that it is also able

22:22

to take choice into account

22:24

when it's sorting the students,

22:27

because I have a feeling that

22:29

three out of the original four

22:31

founders would not have taken choice

22:33

into account. Like, if that's interesting,

22:36

right? And so the sorting hat's like,

22:38

nah, you're good. I'll put you where

22:40

you want to go. But I just

22:42

don't see Godert Giffendorfendor

22:44

or Salazar Slytherin having

22:46

someone come to them who

22:48

doesn't meet their standards for their house

22:51

and saying, hey, I really want to

22:53

be in Slytherin. Will you let me

22:55

in. I don't see that happening. So

22:58

it's interesting. Yeah, maybe it was a

23:00

concession because the sorting hat wasn't there

23:02

since day one sorting the houses. The

23:05

sorting hat was put in charge after

23:07

the founders stopped doing it themselves. And

23:09

so maybe a concession that each of

23:11

them made after Slytherin left was to

23:14

come up with a list of their

23:16

values, three or four values, ones that

23:18

we hear the hat sing about all

23:21

this time. And it would use those

23:23

values to then... you know, ascribe a

23:25

house to people. So rather than strictly

23:27

going by who's the most studious

23:29

or any of that, who's the

23:32

bravest, who's the most cunning, and

23:34

really just looked at, we've questioned

23:36

before with Hermione being in griffendore,

23:38

not Ravenclaw, what does she value

23:41

more? Is it the learning or

23:43

is it sort of the friendship

23:45

aspect and bravery in standing up

23:47

for what you believe in? So

23:49

it's like, kind of wish you wash

23:51

you there. I do like what Moonilupin

23:54

said about the sorting hat, it's

23:56

like the voice of Griffin Dorr,

23:58

mind of Ravenclough. gentleness

24:00

of Hufflepuff and the

24:02

cutthroatness of slitherin. I love

24:05

that. Yeah, the slitherin piece

24:07

is when the hat barely touches someone's

24:09

head and is like, oh no, give

24:11

me off here, you can go on slitherin.

24:13

Bye. Yeah, yeah. Oh man, it's like it's

24:16

like sitting on Santa's lap, but he's been

24:18

there for three hours without a break

24:20

and he's just like, what do you

24:22

want? Okay, bye, get out of here.

24:24

Well, we're going to get out of

24:26

here for just a moment for a

24:29

quick ad break, but then we'll be

24:31

right back to finish chatting about

24:33

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for team. And we're back. And we

25:09

talked about this a little bit

25:11

before the break, but we know

25:14

it's not the first time that

25:16

the sorting hat has used

25:18

the song to give a

25:21

warning because nearly headless Nick

25:23

confirms this. Unfortunately,

25:26

we never are rewarded with

25:28

the answer. to the question,

25:30

well, what else did it

25:32

warn us about? First of

25:34

all, because he's about to

25:36

tell them and Professor McGonagall

25:38

rudely interrupts him by staring

25:40

daggers at him to shut

25:43

the heck up, but then

25:45

two, Ron's being kind

25:47

of insensitive towards

25:49

Nick, when asking the question

25:51

and chewing with his mouth

25:53

full, ultimately offense Nick, and

25:55

he takes off. But I

25:58

was wondering. Because we do have some

26:00

knowledge of wizarding world history.

26:02

Are there any specific

26:04

events we can think of where

26:06

the hat might have given a

26:08

warning? Like I'm thinking about the

26:10

Goblin rebellion has to be one

26:13

for example. Brexit is a more

26:15

modern one it would have spotted.

26:17

I think probably same message get

26:19

along. Maybe the titanic sinking, you

26:21

know, we know credence, nearly died

26:23

on that. I think there would

26:25

have been a few times, yeah,

26:27

for sure. But it's literally, to

26:29

question not to go back to

26:31

the had sentience, but it's come

26:33

up with a thousand different songs

26:35

in its tenure. Like it's almost

26:37

as prolific as Taylor Swift. Like

26:40

that's how impressive it is. Does it

26:42

leave tons of Easter eggs that the

26:44

students obsess over all year to try

26:46

and predict what the next song is

26:48

going to be or when it's going

26:50

to be dropped? Because goodness. I mean

26:52

that's what it needs to... reach that

26:55

swifty level is my understanding.

26:57

I just love that you worked Taylor

26:59

Swift into the SEO so that if

27:01

we can keep putting out more music

27:03

once per episode for this year I

27:05

think will be in really great shape.

27:07

Okay I'm gonna mention chat for next

27:10

week. To that point though Eric I

27:12

would like to advocate then for the

27:14

sorting hat to be in the Rock

27:16

and Roll Hall of Fame. Well I

27:18

said it made a thousand songs it

27:20

doesn't mean any of them were commercially

27:23

successful. I mean, a thousand though. Yeah,

27:25

even if the, even if it's low

27:27

odds, like a low percentage, I bet

27:29

some of them are Bob's. I think

27:32

the first, the one we see in

27:34

Harry's first year is an absolute banger.

27:36

Who do you think would induct

27:38

the sorting hat into the Rock

27:40

and Roll Hall of Fame? The ghost

27:43

of Gadrogfodor. It'd be like,

27:45

when I knew you, you were just my hat.

27:47

And then I left, left you in

27:49

charge and look at where

27:51

you've come. is fun enough

27:54

that he would do it.

27:56

Right? He would do it.

27:58

Yeah, or slash. on a

28:00

whim. Yeah, well, the sorting

28:03

hat dropped its warning at

28:05

a very opportune moment because

28:07

everyone has their feast, enjoys,

28:09

you know, filling their bellies

28:12

after a long day on

28:14

the Hogwarts Express, and Dumboldore

28:16

stands up to give his

28:19

speech, but he's quickly interrupted,

28:21

just a couple of minutes

28:23

in, by umbrage with that

28:26

insufferable... that we all hate

28:28

to hear. So prepare for

28:30

that for the rest of

28:33

this edition of Chapter by

28:35

Chapter. And she also gave

28:37

a speech that can be

28:40

deeply analyzed and Hermione seems

28:42

to be the only one

28:44

who's paying enough attention to

28:46

do it. Fortunately for Harry

28:49

and Ron, she's able to

28:51

explain everything to them. She's

28:53

on fire. It's kind of

28:56

like she's their chat gPT

28:58

summary of something that's like

29:00

you can just copy and

29:03

paste long bits of info.

29:05

But it seems like most

29:07

the school, this isn't just

29:10

in their immediate circle, most

29:12

of the school is also

29:14

struggling. I think Ernie Mac's

29:16

eyes are glazed over. Yeah.

29:19

And that's by design, right?

29:21

I mean, her entire speech

29:23

is like double speak. like,

29:26

you know, progress for progress's

29:28

sake ought to be prohibited.

29:30

Like, there's so much of

29:33

what she says that's just

29:35

like contradictory word salad, and

29:37

that's by design. It was

29:40

intended to be intentionally difficult

29:42

to track and follow and

29:44

understand and to actually have

29:46

the effect that it ultimately

29:49

has on everybody except Hermione.

29:51

And I think that's exactly

29:53

why. Umbridge doesn't care that

29:56

nobody's paying attention to her

29:58

because she's kind of getting

30:00

to fly under the radar, right?

30:03

The ministry at this point knows

30:05

that they can't quite say the

30:07

quiet part out loud. They know

30:09

that they have to be more

30:11

political and like covert

30:13

about it at this point. And

30:15

I think her being boring and

30:18

confusing to listen to is by

30:20

design. That is a really good

30:22

point. Also, I mean, it would

30:24

be bad enough that she seemed

30:26

to most of the school to

30:29

interrupt Dumbledore. you know that was bad

30:31

enough that he was kind of about

30:33

to send them on their way and

30:35

she took and he gave an inch

30:38

and she took a mile as far

30:40

as that really that alone I

30:42

mean if grubly plank did that

30:45

Harry would be calling for her

30:47

blood I mean seriously I mean

30:49

I think a lot of people

30:51

would I think the thing with

30:53

umbrage is a lot of people don't

30:55

know who she is right So there's

30:58

a bit of like astonishment,

31:00

like does this lady know

31:02

who she just interrupted? Like

31:05

being non-plussed and her fake

31:07

sweetness, I think kids have

31:09

a knack for kind of

31:11

detecting when an adult is

31:13

being fake with you. And

31:15

I think that some of

31:18

that is clearly already coming

31:20

through to, if not the

31:22

whole student body, definitely to

31:24

Harry. There's something to... sickly

31:26

sweet about her that would I

31:28

think put Harry off even if

31:31

he didn't recognize her from the

31:33

trial that he just went through

31:35

where she tried to get him

31:37

expelled. Yeah. And that's an important

31:39

part of it though too because

31:42

that allows her mindy to connect

31:44

the dots. Yes. And I think

31:46

even under normal circumstances

31:49

she would still be paying attention

31:51

to what this woman is saying

31:53

but she pays it. extra careful

31:56

attention because Harry says

31:58

that in fact Umbridge was

32:00

a part of her trial. And

32:02

Laura, going back to something you

32:04

were talking about before, she is

32:06

telling you who she is by

32:09

not telling you who she is

32:11

almost. It's a very nice kind

32:13

of facade that she's able to

32:15

put up. And I think for

32:17

a lot of the students, as

32:20

mentioned how one was kind of

32:22

staring blankly, I'm sure more than

32:24

one, but a lot of the

32:26

other ones are kind of making

32:28

fun of making fun of her.

32:31

They don't realize the challenge that

32:33

is standing in front of them

32:35

or who this person is ultimately

32:37

going to become just a few

32:40

chapters from now. How sinister, how

32:42

evil this person actually is. And

32:44

that goes to the sugary sweetness

32:46

you were talking about. I think

32:48

that's the part that they can

32:51

latch on to as kids and

32:53

make fun of and some of

32:55

them do that. Yeah, I think

32:57

Dumbledore really plays this pitch perfectly

32:59

in this chapter. I can already

33:02

hear Andrew cheering in the editing

33:04

room about this, but you know,

33:06

his response to Umbrage's entire speech

33:08

is polite applause and he tries

33:10

to get it going for everyone

33:13

else. Like, he cannot be seen.

33:15

to then immediately try and warn

33:17

the student body about her or

33:19

anything, they're sort of on their

33:21

own, but not in a Dumbledore's

33:24

neglectful way, but in a Dumbledore's

33:26

hands are directly tied sort of

33:28

way to suss out what kind

33:30

of person umbrages and what her

33:32

true intentions are. They'll find out

33:35

soon enough to Laura's point, but

33:37

Dumbledore has to allow her here.

33:39

and has to allow her to

33:41

do pretty much anything she wants

33:43

and that alone should make everyone

33:46

uncomfortable. I'm interested though what would

33:48

have happened if he would have

33:50

told her excuse me I'm not

33:52

done yet and I agree with

33:54

you he has to let her

33:57

play her hand here. If he

33:59

does choose to interrupt her or

34:01

tell her to sit down and

34:03

shut up, that's not going to

34:05

go over a while. It's not

34:08

going to be a great look

34:10

for him because nobody yet

34:12

really knows who Dolores Umbridge is.

34:14

Yeah. Yeah, and he, Dumboldor has

34:17

already gotten so much negative publicity.

34:19

If she runs back to Cornelius

34:21

and it ends up in the

34:23

Daily Prophet that Dumboldor... you know,

34:25

allegedly body slammed a ministry official

34:27

for interrupting him in the great

34:29

hall, it would just be too

34:32

much and if there would be

34:34

over. Dumbler's student approval rating has

34:36

to be in all time low too

34:38

because of that same gossip. If you

34:40

look at what happens with Shamis and

34:43

Harry at the end of the chapter.

34:45

If you pedal that backwards a little

34:47

bit, if Dumbledore put any toes out

34:49

of line or behaved in a cavalier

34:51

sort of way, even some of his

34:54

students, like the ones that have been

34:56

at Hogwarts for years, would turn against

34:58

him because it would make him seem

35:00

more reckless and more unhinged and more...

35:02

you know, not with it and together

35:05

the way everyone's saying

35:07

that he's not. So he really,

35:09

I think, is starting the year

35:11

off with like the lowest approval

35:14

rating and has to really be

35:16

careful. Yeah, does he ever get it

35:18

back? Like, is there ever a

35:20

point after this where Dumboldore has

35:23

the same level of respect amongst

35:25

the student body as

35:27

he had pre-govlet of

35:29

fire? the very next year

35:32

because he finally hires some

35:34

teachers that like people like

35:36

to do the subjects that

35:38

people like and everyone remembers

35:40

how awful umbrage was so

35:43

that benefits Dumboldor for

35:45

kind of navigating that

35:47

successfully the previous

35:49

year and Voldemort returns I

35:52

think that vindicates him

35:54

on some level yeah I think the

35:56

students probably who all

35:58

along didn't like early, turn

36:00

over a new leaf and grow

36:02

fond of him, but maybe some

36:04

who were questioning fall back in

36:06

line a little bit and, but

36:08

just look at, you know, what

36:10

happens after his fall from the

36:13

astronomy tower and at his funeral,

36:15

you know, clearly it's well attended

36:17

and he's well acknowledged. Let's talk

36:19

about the Harry and Shamest fight.

36:21

Once they get back up to

36:23

their dormitory, Harry just wants to

36:25

go to sleep. Well, to be

36:27

fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I

36:29

mean, his fellow students have been

36:31

staring at him and clearly talking

36:33

about him every chance they can

36:35

get. Like, he's uncomfortable. He's tired.

36:37

He's had a long day. He

36:39

wants to go to bed. Well,

36:41

Laura, before we get there, I

36:43

actually had a question that I

36:45

wanted to ask you guys. He...

36:48

has the opportunity to maybe help

36:50

Ron and Hermine. There was a

36:52

split second where I thought, because

36:54

Ron is surprised, Hermine is like,

36:56

we have to, Ron, this is

36:58

us, we have to lead the

37:00

first years in the dormitory. And

37:02

Ron's like, oh, oh, yeah. But

37:04

they could have maybe turned to

37:06

Harry and say, Harry. I know

37:08

you're not technically a prefect. Would

37:10

you like to help us? Like

37:12

he could have stuck around. What

37:14

ends up happening is the first

37:16

time an 11 year old looks

37:18

at him funny, or maybe somebody

37:20

who's like 13 or 12, he

37:23

immediately resolves to like leave and

37:25

take secret passage ways the whole

37:27

way up to the castle. So

37:29

he's in his head, but would

37:31

it have gone over differently if

37:33

somebody had said Harry like, can

37:35

you actually help us with these

37:37

kids or something like that? Maybe.

37:39

I think it's important though the

37:41

point you bring up about him

37:43

taking the secret passages because that

37:45

shows just what kind of state

37:47

of mind he's in that he

37:49

doesn't want to be not wanting

37:51

to engage with anybody that he's

37:53

using Whether it's the map whether

37:55

it's his cloak I don't know

37:58

that they get specific but he

38:00

knows these past ways anyway and

38:02

he's able to navigate it such

38:04

that he really doesn't have to

38:06

interact with anybody. His

38:08

father's son. Shamis just

38:10

adds fuel to the fire at

38:12

this point. Yeah, it's been a

38:14

long day. It has and Harry

38:16

gets to his dorm and of

38:19

course he finds some of his

38:21

dorm mates there, so are Dean

38:23

and Shamis and Harry asks how

38:25

Dean summer was and Dean says,

38:27

oh my summer was great. Shamest

38:30

is though, his was pretty

38:32

rough. And Harry goes to

38:34

ask, well, what happened? And

38:36

Shamest kind of awkwardly

38:39

says, you happen. Man, my

38:41

mom didn't want me to

38:43

come back to Hogwarts because

38:46

of you, because his mom

38:48

had absorbed the narrative from

38:51

the daily profit that Harry

38:53

was lying. old and forgetful

38:56

and that none of this

38:58

stuff with Voldemort had happened.

39:00

So this leads to quite a

39:03

blow up between the two of

39:05

them with Seamus feeling like Harry

39:07

is attacking his mother and Harry

39:10

feeling attacked by a woman

39:12

that he seemed like once

39:14

in person before and then

39:16

Seamus of course feels like

39:18

he needs to rise to

39:20

the occasion to defend his

39:22

mother's honor. Harry doesn't handle escalation

39:24

very well and he doesn't here

39:26

but I understand why you know

39:28

he's been dealing with this all

39:31

summer he went through this trial

39:33

thought he wasn't going to be

39:35

allowed to come back to Hogwarts

39:37

got through that you know had

39:39

to deal with everything at Grimold

39:41

Place gets here and the first thing

39:43

he's greeted by in his room which

39:45

is supposed to be his safe space

39:47

is yo my mom and my mom thinks

39:50

and therefore I think and therefore

39:52

I think You're a netter. That

39:54

sucks. It's a lot to put

39:56

on on Harry. Like it's you

39:59

and Dumbledore. are the reason that

40:01

my life is hard. It's unfair.

40:03

I think there was a more

40:05

constructive way that Seamus could have

40:07

said it. Like, I'm not getting

40:10

along with my mom because I

40:12

almost couldn't come back to Hogwarts,

40:14

even despite my desire for learning.

40:16

she's been reading the paper and

40:18

and to be honest I'm uncertain

40:20

how I feel about you and

40:23

then it's not a nicer message

40:25

but it's a little bit you

40:27

know it's it's it's a lot

40:29

less teenage boy to do something

40:31

different than what he does so

40:33

is that what you think the

40:36

root of the issue is is

40:38

a disagreement between Shamis and his

40:40

mom about Harry? No I think

40:42

that Shamis is deeply curious what

40:44

happens to that's why after sort

40:46

of this immediate blow up He

40:49

does ask Harry, hey, what did

40:51

happen? Which is the million dollar

40:53

question that keeps coming up throughout

40:55

the Phoenix, but it's really not

40:57

going to satiate anybody, really. There's

40:59

nothing that Harry can say from

41:02

his experience in the graveyard that

41:04

is going to really change anybody's

41:06

opinion in my mind. Right, it

41:08

makes Harry think that he's coming

41:10

up short here, and he even

41:12

acknowledges that. you know at the

41:15

end of the last year he

41:17

was distraught and there were only

41:19

like a couple of days and

41:21

he didn't get to tell everybody

41:23

the full thing but there is

41:25

no full thing really other than

41:28

what Dumbledore said so it's either

41:30

that was good enough for you

41:32

or it wasn't and it seems

41:34

like with the addition of the

41:36

the stuff that the daily profit

41:39

is is putting fewer people are

41:41

okay with taking Dumbledore's word for

41:43

it. The important thing though that

41:45

comes from this is that it

41:47

shows Harry He doesn't always have

41:49

the support of those within his

41:52

own house. And it's going to

41:54

become a larger theme about loyalty

41:56

and choosing sides of this war

41:58

as we move forward. a very

42:00

smaller example of that with

42:03

probably not as many implications

42:05

because it's resolved by the end

42:07

of this book for the most

42:10

part, but there are going to

42:12

be people who are going to fall

42:14

on both sides of the aisle here and

42:16

it may not always be the characters

42:18

that Harry or we anticipate. And

42:21

I like to think that there's

42:23

more to this story though

42:25

than what Shemus is actually

42:27

sharing. I know that he

42:29

probably has a strong desire

42:31

to support his mother's position,

42:33

and certainly once she gets

42:36

insulted by Harry, he has

42:38

every right to defend her. But

42:40

one thing that I remembered, and

42:42

I find to be somewhat ironic,

42:45

and I'm going to call Shemus

42:47

and his mother a bunch of

42:49

hypocrites, because in the previous book,

42:51

both of them... could give two

42:54

rats, you know what's, about what

42:56

the ministry thought of their decked-out

42:59

Shamrock tent at the Cottage

43:01

World Cup. So interesting

43:03

how now they're all

43:05

lovey-dovey with Cornelius and

43:07

kissing the ministries behind

43:09

in this particular situation. So,

43:12

you know, whenever it suits

43:14

you, please fall in line. It's a

43:16

crying shame. Even Ron brings up

43:18

that they met, Shameus his mom,

43:20

they say, we liked your mother.

43:22

He says, you know, last year

43:24

we met her, thought she was

43:26

all right. Like, it's a shame

43:28

that it should kind of have

43:31

degraded and devolved into

43:33

this personal angle, but

43:36

ultimately... It's just the only

43:38

thing causing this is nothing Harry

43:40

did. It's not even anything Dumbledore

43:43

did. It's the ministry that's unwilling

43:45

to acknowledge that things are as

43:47

bad as they are. And if

43:50

they just told people, then we

43:52

could all be facing the real

43:55

challenge ahead of us and not

43:57

what was, what's being lied about.

43:59

Yeah. Well, Micah, I think you have

44:02

a what-if for us. Did you want

44:04

to get to that or do you

44:06

have any other of these notes you

44:08

wanted to touch on? Okay, I'm going

44:11

to play the sound effect, get ready.

44:13

What if? Shamis moved the hell out.

44:15

Now I'm playing Billy Joel. Yeah, great

44:18

song, by the way. You know, I

44:20

thought a little bit through this. Who

44:22

cares, number one, if he moved out?

44:24

Nobody. Nobody cares about Shamis. Is this

44:27

a serious question if my guys, this

44:29

is a serious what if? It's kind

44:31

of a fun what if. There's an

44:34

extra bed. I mean that's a huge

44:36

bone. If I were Ron, Dean, Neville,

44:38

and Harry, I'd be like, dude, you

44:40

know, they're 50 years, they're, you know,

44:43

they need the space, they don't mind

44:45

an extra bed. You know that Ron

44:47

would put his feet on the other

44:50

bed, like, because he's tall, he's always

44:52

growing taller, and yeah. Who do we

44:54

think would need to sign off on

44:56

this? Because I'm all for it. Well,

44:59

there has to, there actually, there actually

45:01

has to be a way to mediate

45:03

these kinds of disagreements. I mean, maybe

45:06

not this specific. It can't be the

45:08

only time this has happened. Surely this

45:10

has come up before. I mean, think

45:12

about the people who probably live with

45:15

Fred and George. Yeah, any, call it

45:17

dorm roommates, like you can be relocated,

45:19

relocated. It takes a little bit, but

45:22

you can do it. I just wonder

45:24

where. Because there really aren't too many

45:26

options unless they're going to move him

45:28

into like... The fourth year's dorm or

45:31

the sixth year's dorm, which probably wouldn't

45:33

be fun. I just want to point

45:35

out the complete fallibility and inconsistency of

45:38

class sizes at Hogwarts and student populous

45:40

size. Even in this chapter, it has

45:42

said that there is a huge line

45:44

of people waiting to be sorted. And

45:47

it takes a long time for that

45:49

line to go down in this chapter.

45:51

And yet. from Harry's

45:54

year, there were five

45:56

Gryffindors. You can

45:58

name them all and

46:00

they're all in

46:03

this room. So it

46:05

just doesn't make sense

46:07

and they can expand any

46:09

space with magic. So

46:11

there has to be room and beds

46:13

for everybody to spare, to

46:15

have private apartments even. I

46:18

mean, they have those

46:20

sleeping bags they use in

46:22

Prisoner of Azkaban. I would

46:24

love There's pouches in the common

46:26

room. Oh my God. I'm sure people

46:28

have slept on them. Yeah. So

46:30

into the Wicked Wood, Becky

46:32

and the Discord makes a really good

46:34

point. Maybe Seamus feels a bit

46:36

unsafe in a room with Harry without

46:38

knowing for sure what really happened

46:40

or what's happening with him. He

46:42

might be a brave Gryffindor but it's harder to

46:44

be brave in the face of the unknown. Yeah,

46:47

well, and to be honest

46:49

here, I totally understand why

46:52

Seamus's mom was scared. I

46:54

mean, they're getting misinformation, you

46:57

know? Yeah. They're getting

46:59

misinformation from their

47:01

government and she's worried about

47:04

sending her son back to

47:06

school with someone who the ministry

47:08

is saying is off his rocker

47:10

and potentially dangerous. The real thing

47:12

is somebody who came out of

47:14

the maze with the dead body.

47:16

Like I think that's the real

47:18

issue here. I think, as Michelle

47:20

points out in a Discord, maybe Seamus

47:22

feels betrayed too like he's a close

47:24

enough friend to Harry to expect an

47:27

explanation and have that be okay. But

47:29

it's just that Harry's been picked and

47:31

prodded at the entire summer. And like

47:33

I think there is a world in

47:35

which Harry would take the time and

47:37

actually explain it. But he's tired

47:39

of answering. Seamus ain't even close to

47:42

the fourth wheel, okay? He's got at

47:44

least a handful of people in front of him.

47:46

Honestly, I think Luna's in front of him. Yeah.

47:48

Well, speaking of people who

47:50

are close to Harry, Neville,

47:53

let's talk a little bit

47:55

about him because this moment

47:57

for him is a defining

47:59

moment. I think in the series,

48:01

standing up, much like he does

48:03

in Sorcerer Stone, but this time

48:05

in front of, you know, the

48:07

rest of his dormates, to voice

48:10

his support for Harry, voice his

48:12

grandmother support for Harry and Doubledoor.

48:14

I just thought it was a

48:16

really cool moment. Yeah, I loved it.

48:18

And, you know, there's this talk

48:20

about Seamus' mom, but Neville's

48:23

grand knows what's up. Every

48:25

time Neville's grand shows up

48:27

in these books, any mention

48:29

of her, any, the way

48:31

McGonagall, like, talks about her once

48:33

or twice, you just, you just see

48:35

that she is a no-nonsense woman

48:37

who has her head on straight,

48:40

but here's the other aspect there

48:42

that nobody's talking about. Neville, we

48:44

don't know who his parents were

48:46

yet. coming later in this book,

48:49

but if your child was one

48:51

of the main foils to Voldemort

48:53

and they died and your grandson

48:55

is now going to

48:57

a school where Voldemort's

48:59

return is not being

49:01

publicized, like you would

49:03

take that seriously. Augusta

49:06

Longbottom is taking it

49:08

seriously because she lost

49:10

a son and daughter-in-law

49:12

or daughter-in-law to Voldemort.

49:14

She's not about to

49:16

discredit or discount. somebody

49:18

like Dumbledore saying he's returned.

49:20

Like you just can't fool that

49:22

woman. Well, and she probably

49:24

feels like the safest place

49:27

for Neville is wherever Dumbledore

49:29

is. So she's probably eager for

49:31

him to go back. But

49:33

it is so interesting, Eric, that

49:36

you point out the differences

49:38

in perception between people whose

49:40

families either were or were

49:42

not impacted directly by the

49:44

first wizarding war. Like the

49:46

people who had close relatives die

49:48

the first time around are like

49:50

nope I get it feels like

49:53

last time. Yeah or people in

49:55

the order even more specifically

49:57

like would have gained that

49:59

trust. of Dumbledore, that extra trust

50:01

that really helps. But yeah, I

50:04

mean, Augusto just knows that it's

50:06

not anything to, like, ignore. She's

50:08

seeing the signs. And speaking of

50:10

Dumbledore, I thought it was very

50:13

emotionally mature of Harry at the

50:15

end of this chapter to notice

50:17

that maybe he's going through the

50:19

same thing as Harry, right? Maybe

50:22

Dumbledore is experiencing a little bit

50:24

of what, or maybe a lot

50:26

of what. Harry is going through

50:28

in this particular moment. We know

50:31

about the expulsion from the, what

50:33

is it, the Wisen Gamo? Yeah.

50:35

Oh yeah, and it's funny how

50:37

Shame is citing that is like,

50:40

well, he was kicked off the

50:42

Wisen Gamo because he's losing his

50:44

marbles and it's like, can name

50:46

another member of the Wisen Gamo?

50:49

I dare you. Right. Like, can

50:51

you really care about this? Like,

50:53

seriously. But also, like, did you

50:55

even know what the whizzing gimo

50:58

was? Before you saw that Dumboldor

51:00

had been kicked off of it,

51:02

yeah. I hate it so much.

51:04

Well, we need to take one

51:07

more quick break before we come

51:09

back with our question of the

51:11

week. Sit tight, and we will

51:13

be right back. All

51:20

right y'all, so time to

51:22

get into some questions. First

51:24

one, our replacement for the

51:26

old MVP of the week

51:28

segment. I have a question

51:30

that's actually inspired Eric by

51:32

a point you made earlier

51:34

in the episode about Hermione

51:36

being the chat GPT for

51:38

Harry and Ron. So what

51:40

would we want Hermione GPT

51:42

to CLDR for us? CLDR

51:45

stands for too long didn't

51:47

read. So what is Hermione

51:49

going to summarize? So for

51:51

me, it's going to be

51:53

Professor Bins' history of magic

51:55

lessons. I feel like there's

51:57

probably some good info. there,

51:59

but do I want to

52:01

spend a whole class period

52:03

listening to a dead guy

52:05

drawn on about it? No.

52:07

Hermione, GPT, please deliver us

52:09

and save me that time. Give

52:12

me my 45 minutes back. I

52:14

want her to give me the short

52:16

summary of the conversation

52:18

that took place between

52:21

Professor McGonagall and Professor

52:23

Sprout while Umbridge was

52:26

giving her speech. Oh, that's

52:28

a very good one. That's a

52:30

good one. I like that. Yeah. I

52:32

said my ancient rooms homework

52:34

just because I've always in

52:37

Matt, when I thought about

52:39

Hogwarts courses and like which

52:41

ones would probably be the

52:44

hardest for me, for some

52:46

reason ancient rooms, seems like

52:48

there's lots of calculations involved

52:51

and that's not my jam.

52:53

So I think I would

52:55

have. Hermite GPT helped me

52:58

with that. Love it. Yeah, that was

53:00

that was a good thought process there.

53:02

And now we're going to turn to

53:04

our links line, which is

53:07

our newest benefit on patron.

53:09

Thanks to those who support

53:11

us at patreon.com/mugglecast for answering

53:13

this week's question. So this

53:15

week's question. is related again to

53:17

the umbrage theme of the

53:20

chapter in this chapter umbrage

53:22

not so subtly announces her

53:24

intentions to reform the curricula

53:27

of Hogwarts so this week

53:29

we asked which class lesson

53:31

or teacher would benefit most

53:33

from changes to improve the

53:36

educational experience and which changes

53:38

would you make to their

53:40

subject and how it is

53:42

taught and we added a caveat

53:45

here Please don't pick Hagrid. We've

53:47

ragged on him enough. Oh, you know, and

53:49

we don't feel like we spend, I don't know

53:51

if we spend enough time on it on this

53:53

episode. I was expecting a lot more

53:55

time devoted to how the Raven Clause

53:58

are way justified in this episode. where

54:00

you react on that. Okay, all

54:02

right, all right, then I will

54:04

be silent. But the first one

54:06

on the links line, the first

54:09

response we got on our links

54:11

line from Niningchi says the grading

54:13

of divination seems extremely subjective and

54:15

would probably benefit from some sort

54:18

of grading rubric. I think recent

54:20

world events is proving learning history

54:22

is important, so minimizing sleeping students

54:24

would help greatly. Yeah, I agree

54:27

with that. Any of these nebulous

54:29

grading schemes have to go. Carly

54:31

says, I do feel like the

54:33

first year's flying lesson should be

54:35

reformed a bit. It's kind of

54:38

like Driver's Ed, but with 11-year-olds,

54:40

and they basically let them drive

54:42

a car their first day. They

54:44

should go through an instructional class

54:47

first, pass a written test, then

54:49

only after all that. would they

54:51

be allowed on a worn out

54:53

wobbly hand-me-down stick that can go

54:56

hundreds of feet in the air?

54:58

So I agree with that. That's

55:00

a good one. Honestly I'm kind

55:02

of surprised because we know that

55:04

we find out in book seven

55:07

isn't it that Harry had like

55:09

a broomstick that was designed for

55:11

toddlers that didn't lift him very

55:13

high? Yeah. I'm kind of surprised

55:16

that for 11 year olds learning

55:18

to fly for the first time

55:20

there isn't something similar. What, oh

55:22

yeah, like training rooms, basically? Yeah,

55:25

yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

55:27

The fact that Neville can like

55:29

get on his broom and then

55:31

all of a sudden be throttled

55:33

off and put in mortal peril

55:36

is well an oversight. Steph asks,

55:38

what did they learn in transfiguration

55:40

besides turning an animal into a

55:42

goblet? Hermione seems to be the

55:45

only one who uses transfiguration outside

55:47

of school and all we know

55:49

is she likes quote just a

55:51

bit of light reading. This is

55:54

such a good one it is

55:56

like I can't believe Steph came

55:58

from McGonagall but like I think

56:00

it's a point. What use

56:02

is this to the wider

56:04

world? And can we kind

56:07

of make or find more

56:09

worthy reasons to use

56:11

transfiguration? Like, it's whatever we

56:14

would go to a class

56:16

for real and say, where

56:18

will we use this, you

56:20

know, trigonometry in the real

56:22

world? And there really isn't

56:24

a time where you have

56:27

to figure out the area

56:29

under a curve in real

56:31

life, unless you've gone into

56:33

a very specific field. So for

56:36

transfiguration, yeah, the kind

56:38

of things that we see

56:40

them doing, I think that's

56:42

very fair. Isn't it? under the

56:45

transfiguration umbrella. Did

56:47

we ever get any answer to that?

56:49

40 million people have ever done.

56:52

Yeah. But we also learn

56:54

about Gamp's laws of elemental

56:57

transfiguration. That's another use. Again,

56:59

Hermione's the one who brings that

57:01

up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting

57:04

what the base most

57:06

level of transfigurations uses

57:08

is interesting. Rachel adds,

57:10

one subject I'd like to add

57:13

to Hogwarts is health, not only

57:15

because I love Madame Pomfrey, hey,

57:17

but I think a class on

57:19

basic remedies and treatments would benefit

57:21

students. It would also be an

57:23

opportunity to teach the cost slash

57:26

rules of magic on the body,

57:28

which would be some cool world

57:30

building. I love this. I do

57:32

too. This is really smart. This

57:34

is actually one of the best

57:36

justifications I've heard. for Hogwarts having

57:38

a health class. Like, we've talked

57:40

about that before, but it's usually

57:43

in the context of like, Hogwarts

57:45

needs sex ed because these are

57:47

a bunch of teenagers. Right. And

57:49

they don't have that, and that

57:51

just seems like a miss, as they

57:53

say. But I love this idea of

57:55

expanding it to say, like, here's how

57:57

you take care of yourself, but here's

57:59

also. how you can remedy things

58:02

if you accidentally cast like a

58:04

jinks backfires on you and you

58:06

need to be able to do

58:09

something to quickly address the immediate

58:11

damage so that you can get

58:13

down to the hospital wing like

58:16

stuff like that would be really

58:18

helpful and cool yeah and it

58:21

would explain how a healer becomes

58:23

a healer yeah you know at

58:25

least if you were given the

58:28

most basic level of understanding during

58:30

Hogwarts. Then I could see, you

58:32

know, the path, I guess, towards

58:35

that as a career. AJ brings

58:37

up Muggle Studies saying we don't

58:40

see it, but Mr. Weasley's understanding

58:42

is a little underdeveloped for a

58:44

ministry expert in the area. I

58:47

think we see that quite a

58:49

bit, actually. What, Muggle Studies? Oh,

58:51

is he saying we don't see

58:54

Muggle Studies? I see. The way

58:56

I read it is we don't

58:58

see Mr. Weasley's understanding being underdeveloped.

59:01

Look, I don't want to speak

59:03

ill of the dead, but it

59:06

is unclear what charity Burbage is,

59:08

whole curriculum and agenda is at

59:10

Hogwarts, and it's possible that she's

59:13

failing the wizarding public as a

59:15

whole. Yes. I feel like if

59:17

it were bad, Hermione would say

59:20

something, because of course Hermione takes

59:22

muggle studies, because she has to

59:25

take everything. That's a good point.

59:27

And I'm not entirely sure, like

59:29

do we even know that muggle

59:32

studies existed at Hogwarts when Arthur

59:34

was there? Yeah, that's true. Maybe

59:36

charity just fallen into a very

59:39

niche role at the ministry. So

59:41

yeah, yeah, all good points. Well,

59:44

we do have several more submissions,

59:46

but I will just preface this

59:48

by saying everything else is hate

59:51

for snape and potions and gins

59:53

and history of magic. So getting

59:55

into the potions, I hate. Lindsay

59:58

says potions is an ocean nightmare.

1:00:00

Poor lighting. Noven. for fumes, chemicals

1:00:03

are not properly labeled with hazard

1:00:05

warnings, safety goggles, and dragon hide

1:00:07

gloves not being worn, where's the

1:00:10

safety shower, where are the safety

1:00:12

data sheets, hazardous waste spill plans?

1:00:14

Does the potions master ensure students

1:00:17

have basic math skills year one

1:00:19

to adequately follow instructions? No. They

1:00:22

definitely don't. Every one of these

1:00:24

is a good point that I'd

1:00:26

love to write a dissertation on.

1:00:29

But for me, the math and

1:00:31

the conversions of grams to leaders

1:00:33

to, again, measuring ingredients, that is

1:00:36

so important in baking. I mean,

1:00:38

potions. There's really no substitute. And

1:00:41

not only are they working with

1:00:43

hazardous chemicals, but the teacher's threatening

1:00:45

half the time to give you

1:00:48

the hazardous chemical that you've created.

1:00:50

If you're Neville. And Roshney says,

1:00:52

the whole class is, here's a

1:00:55

recipe, try it, and Snape knows

1:00:57

all these tricks and stuff, but

1:01:00

he doesn't teach it to them.

1:01:02

What's the point in that? Is

1:01:04

there any technique taught at all?

1:01:07

It just doesn't seem effective to

1:01:09

me. You're right. Snape just browbeats

1:01:11

everyone, and maybe a few people

1:01:14

get to learn that way, but

1:01:16

most people probably do not. Michelle

1:01:18

says that Snape may be a

1:01:21

highly skilled wizard and potion maker,

1:01:23

but there should be no room

1:01:26

for bullying in the classroom. His

1:01:28

knowledge and high standard should make

1:01:30

him a great teacher, but his

1:01:33

inability to create a safe space

1:01:35

for learning makes him completely ineffective.

1:01:37

Yeah, we see that a couple

1:01:40

times in this series with certain

1:01:42

students. Oh yeah, Steph says... It

1:01:45

felt like an entirely different subject

1:01:47

with slughorn teaching it as he

1:01:49

made it open engaging and integrated

1:01:52

the teachings into their lived experiences.

1:01:54

A fun idea could be partnering

1:01:56

up with herbology on a garden

1:01:59

to culture. project, that's so cool

1:02:01

because those subjects do go hand

1:02:03

in hand. There is a lot

1:02:06

of overlap, for sure, between

1:02:08

several of these subjects. And

1:02:10

Julianne adds, regarding potions, any

1:02:13

decent educator knows that encouraging

1:02:15

students and building positive relationships

1:02:18

are some of the most

1:02:20

important aspects of helping students

1:02:23

learn. Guess, Knape didn't get that

1:02:25

memo, but then again, he was

1:02:27

never trained as a teacher. Fair point.

1:02:29

All right, it is time for

1:02:31

some bins bashing. We heard from

1:02:33

Xavier who said, this is my

1:02:35

first links line. Well, welcome. I

1:02:37

think that if it was taught

1:02:39

properly, history of magic could be

1:02:41

a blast. If the teacher was

1:02:44

engaged in the lessons and brought

1:02:46

in goblins or people that study

1:02:48

history in the magical world, it

1:02:50

could be super fun. Also, if

1:02:52

you did projects on Wizards Wizards,

1:02:54

goblins, or Giant Wars, it could

1:02:57

be a blast. It's all about

1:02:59

the teaching style. I think it has a

1:03:01

lot of potential. You know, the

1:03:03

only reason we have been is as

1:03:05

an educator is because Dumbledore never hired

1:03:07

another who's like, oh, oh, oh, I'm

1:03:09

gonna have to hire a new wait.

1:03:11

No, he's a ghost. Oh, thank God. We'll

1:03:14

just put the ghost to let the ghost

1:03:16

keep doing it. It was good enough for

1:03:18

him during life. We don't even need to

1:03:20

pay him. We don't even need to pay

1:03:22

him. history of magic teacher. Somebody

1:03:25

to shake things up. Yeah, Morgan says

1:03:27

I would absolutely dread his class,

1:03:29

and that's Professor Bins, of

1:03:31

course, and I'm someone who

1:03:33

actually loves history. For students

1:03:35

who didn't grow up in

1:03:37

the wizarding world and never

1:03:39

heard about magical historical events

1:03:41

firsthand, his lessons must be

1:03:44

of real struggle. There needs

1:03:46

to be more interaction. How about

1:03:48

class debates or discussions? Allowing students

1:03:50

to present on topics of interest

1:03:52

would make the subject so much

1:03:54

more engaging. Even a bit of

1:03:57

peer-to-peer teaching could help break up

1:03:59

the monotony. Yeah, I mean again,

1:04:01

we're hearing lots of suggestions that

1:04:03

would be way better than what

1:04:06

we get. I'm so glad we

1:04:08

asked this quite. These are all

1:04:10

very useful for sure. I think

1:04:13

for the subjects that have real-world

1:04:15

applications, a lot of this could

1:04:17

be the author's own experience, let's

1:04:20

say perhaps with her history classes

1:04:22

over the years and the kinds

1:04:24

of professors or the way the

1:04:26

subject matter was taught. I know...

1:04:29

I mean, any subject matter can

1:04:31

be dry and boring, but history

1:04:33

probably has a bad rap when

1:04:36

it comes to that. Yeah, yeah,

1:04:38

for sure. Jennifer says, I think

1:04:40

about how much better it could

1:04:43

have been if Professor Bins had

1:04:45

just made it a little more

1:04:47

interesting or engaging for the students.

1:04:49

The very fact that he's a

1:04:52

ghost could have made the class

1:04:54

that much more exciting. He could

1:04:56

have drifted over the class, catching

1:04:59

people, not paying attention, knowing where

1:05:01

we come from is how we

1:05:03

avoid problems in the future. Or

1:05:05

so we hope. Eleanor says, okay,

1:05:08

I'm biased. I'm a history graduate.

1:05:10

It's an absolutely fascinating subject, just

1:05:12

not when taught by someone who

1:05:15

just drones on and on and

1:05:17

on with dates and facts. Make

1:05:19

it a bit more interactive. Have

1:05:22

some debates. Explain why things happen

1:05:24

and why they're important. Get the

1:05:26

ghosts who live through it to

1:05:28

talk about their experiences. There's an

1:05:31

opportunity here to make it super

1:05:33

fun and interesting. I love the

1:05:35

idea that Bins could network with

1:05:38

fellow ghosts. Yeah, I mean clearly

1:05:40

nearly headless Nick is ready to

1:05:42

talk about it. There you go.

1:05:45

Just make sure McGonagall's not around.

1:05:47

Yeah, she'll glare at you. And

1:05:49

finally, Emily says, history can be

1:05:51

so interesting and most students seem

1:05:54

to sleep through this class. Hermione's

1:05:56

historical knowledge comes in handy many

1:05:58

times throughout the series. If the

1:06:01

subject was taught in a more

1:06:03

interesting way, many students may have

1:06:05

the same knowledge. It's a good

1:06:08

point. We wouldn't have to necessarily

1:06:10

only rely on Hermione. Cool. That's

1:06:12

a good point. Yeah. Well, thank

1:06:14

you so much everyone for participating

1:06:17

in this week's links line. And

1:06:19

don't forget, you can participate in

1:06:21

the links line every week by

1:06:24

becoming a patron over at patron.com/mugglecast.

1:06:26

And if you have feedback about

1:06:28

today's discussion, you can contact us

1:06:31

by emailing or sending a voice

1:06:33

memo recorded on your phone to

1:06:35

mugglecast at gmail.com. And next week

1:06:37

it will be Order of the

1:06:40

Phoenix Chapter 12 Professor Umbridge. But

1:06:42

now it's time for Quisage. Heck

1:06:44

yeah, first of the year. It's

1:06:47

back. This week's Quisage Question was.

1:06:49

Inspired by the quibbler, which UK

1:06:51

tabloid known for its sensationalist journalism

1:06:54

was founded in the year 1896

1:06:56

by a man who would later

1:06:58

become First Viscount Northcliff. Yes, it's

1:07:00

one of the two main tabloids

1:07:03

in the UK and the correct

1:07:05

answer is The Daily Mail. 63%

1:07:07

of people said they got it

1:07:10

without looking it up. And I'm

1:07:12

choosing to believe them. Correct answers

1:07:14

were submitted by Stubbe Boardman. a

1:07:17

healthy breeze. All I want for

1:07:19

Christmas is Tom Felton under the

1:07:21

tree. Hope you got it. Annabelle,

1:07:23

Buff Daddy, Cornelia's Goblin Crusher Fudge,

1:07:26

Eleanor. Guys, I have finals this

1:07:28

week and if I get over

1:07:30

50% on my chem final, then

1:07:33

I will be very surprised. Creatures,

1:07:35

crevices. Laura. Laura's Quizich number hints.

1:07:37

Oh, the random things you learn

1:07:40

as a history teacher. Patrona seeker,

1:07:42

proud huffelpuff, Ravenclaws read both the

1:07:44

Daily Prophet and the quibbler to

1:07:46

be fully informed. Sham, the hash-slinging

1:07:49

slasher, the sorting hat's new disc

1:07:51

track, the wheat belt, warlock, the

1:07:53

witch weekly of the muggle world,

1:07:56

this is my real name, Tipsy

1:07:58

Elf, Uncle Vernon's favorite newspaper. and

1:08:00

what are those horse things? Okay,

1:08:03

it's quite a fun, I

1:08:05

think it was like two

1:08:07

weeks of names, so there

1:08:09

you go. And here is

1:08:11

next week's Quizage Question. In

1:08:14

light of Umbrage's long

1:08:16

and boring speech, what is

1:08:18

the length of the longest

1:08:21

speech ever given in the

1:08:23

United Kingdom presented by Henry

1:08:25

Peter Broam? in 1828. I

1:08:28

need the length of the

1:08:30

speech in hours. I'll give

1:08:32

you a hint. It's more

1:08:35

than four and less than

1:08:37

eight. Submit your answer to

1:08:39

us on the Quizage website. Is

1:08:41

that Laura's number hints or Mike's

1:08:44

number hints there? Oh, but yeah.

1:08:46

Submit your answer to us. What

1:08:48

were you saying? I was just

1:08:51

going to say, well, if you get it wrong

1:08:53

because of that, I don't want the smoke. I didn't

1:08:55

say it. Yeah, so it was Michael

1:08:57

that said it. Submit your answer to

1:08:59

us using the Quizzage form, which can

1:09:02

be found on the MuggleCast website if

1:09:04

you're going to mugglecast.com/Quizzich or going on

1:09:06

MuggleCast for another reason, maybe reading some

1:09:08

transcripts. Click on Quizzic for the main

1:09:11

Navbar for the main Navbar. Get

1:09:13

over there that way. And

1:09:15

thanks to all who participated

1:09:17

in Quizz and are participating

1:09:19

in our real world questions,

1:09:21

trivia rounds. Really appreciate

1:09:23

it. And just a few closing

1:09:25

reminders. Be sure to check out

1:09:27

our other weekly podcast, What the

1:09:30

Hype and Millennial, for some more

1:09:32

pop culture and real world talk

1:09:34

from the four of us. I

1:09:36

know Laura, you and Pam just

1:09:39

did the first What the Hype

1:09:41

of 2025 on Onic Storm. Is

1:09:43

that a Pokemon spin-off? I

1:09:45

can see why you would

1:09:47

think that. So Onyx Storm

1:09:50

is the third book in

1:09:52

the Imperean series after Fourth

1:09:54

Wing and Iron Flame and

1:09:56

it is coming out on

1:09:59

January 21st. Pam and I

1:10:01

had a guest join us,

1:10:03

Carly, from Dear Fantasy Reader

1:10:05

podcast. And we went over

1:10:07

all of our most fun,

1:10:09

most maybe controversial predictions about

1:10:11

what we think is going

1:10:13

to happen in Onyx Storm.

1:10:15

It was such a fun

1:10:17

episode. And yeah, by the

1:10:19

time this episode of Bunklcast

1:10:21

is out. it will be

1:10:23

up on the wet the

1:10:25

height feed. So definitely check

1:10:27

it out if you want

1:10:29

to see what we think

1:10:31

Onix Storm has in store

1:10:33

for us. Yeah. Yeah. And

1:10:35

don't forget, all these shows

1:10:37

are brought to you by

1:10:39

muggles like you. So listener

1:10:41

support is the only reason

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beard. There are several great

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visit mugglecast.com for transcripts, social

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media links, our full episode

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archive, our favorite episodes, and

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more. That does it for

1:11:52

episode 688. We made it.

1:11:54

Andrew will be back next

1:11:56

week. Don't worry. I'll try

1:11:58

not to lose all of

1:12:00

the recording. Thanks everybody for

1:12:02

listening. I'm Micah. I'm Eric.

1:12:04

And I'm Laura. Bye everyone.

1:12:06

Happy New Year. Happy New

1:12:09

Year.