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1:25

about the books, the movies, and

1:28

the forthcoming TV show. Make sure

1:30

you follow the show in your

1:32

favorite podcast app so you never

1:34

miss a new episode of Muggle

1:36

Cast. And on this week's episode,

1:38

grab your tissues because we're discussing

1:40

Order of the Phoenix Chapter 22,

1:43

St. Mungo's Hospital for magical maladies

1:45

and injuries. It's a big chapter,

1:47

one big, adaptation-worthy chapter. Yes, I'm

1:49

excited to talk about that. This

1:51

episode was so big, this chapter

1:53

was so big that the last

1:56

time we discussed it, we split

1:58

it into two episodes. Oh, really? big

2:00

it is. Oh okay. All right so

2:02

we're gonna be only time we

2:04

did that. So we're gonna be here

2:07

for the next three hours then let's

2:09

settle in. No no no we

2:11

said everything we had to say and

2:13

this would be a quick one. Oh

2:16

good okay good because I'm sitting

2:18

on the floor and my left leg

2:20

is already asleep so this is gonna

2:22

be a look episode for me.

2:24

Well maybe you need to go to

2:27

St. Mogos Andrew. Oh yeah I need

2:29

a healer I don't want a

2:31

doctor. Helers seem to be way less

2:33

scary. Heelers seem to be way less

2:36

scary. Far less invasive. Yeah, not

2:38

those nutters that cut people up, as

2:40

Ron refers to them. Well, listeners, if

2:42

you love MuggleCast and want to

2:44

help us keep things running as smooth

2:47

as Dumboldor's wonderful network of portraits, visit

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co-host the show one day, and so

3:00

much more. We could not do this

3:02

without you, so we appreciate you

3:04

like Albus appreciates Harry's connection to the

3:07

Dark Lord. And other great ways to

3:09

support us, you can pick up

3:11

merch at mugocastmerch.com. You can leave us

3:13

a review in your favorite podcast app.

3:16

You can also send an owl

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they need some Harry Potter friends in

3:22

their lives. And lastly, visit mugocast.com

3:24

for more information about the show and

3:27

to contact us. So without further ado,

3:29

time for chapter by chapter. The

3:31

episodes. plural in which we last talked

3:33

about chapter 22 were episode 458 titled

3:36

portrait party yeah and episode 459

3:38

titled magic air for all three turns

3:40

should do it anything good luck Episode

3:44

458. He's gone the other

3:46

end of the extreme of

3:48

ignoring him that he really

3:50

won't call him out and

3:52

we see this, you know,

3:54

Harry's telling his whole story

3:57

and Dumbler's really not even

3:59

looking at him not once.

4:01

Well, Dumbledore's having a party

4:03

with the portraits, and McGonagall

4:05

comes in, and it's like,

4:07

oh, McGonagall, come on, join

4:09

the fun. You're going to

4:12

be headmaster one day anyway,

4:14

so you should be a part

4:16

of this, and then, oh, there's the

4:18

Buzz Kill, Harry Potter. My

4:20

scar hurts. Umbridge hates me.

4:22

earlier in the chapter that was

4:25

going to be to come

4:27

cure Mr. Weasley because Fox

4:29

has a history of healing snake

4:31

bites. Oh yeah. Oh my god!

4:33

That's a huge plot hole actually.

4:35

Yeah, come on Dumboldor! You see

4:38

this Phoenix fly into St. Mongos,

4:40

maybe that would have been a

4:42

little much. Wait, why don't they

4:44

just have a team of Phoenixes

4:46

as healers at St. Mongos? There

4:49

you just cry on the

4:51

wounds and heal everybody, everybody.

4:53

I know a guy in Oklahoma who may

4:55

be up for the task. I was

4:57

going to say Andrew you sounded

5:00

like you were from my parts

5:02

just then. Freedom. mysterious thing time.

5:04

Can you tell we all moved

5:06

on to the Tiger King era

5:09

of the pandemic? Okay, I was

5:11

trying to think out what that

5:13

was a reference to. That's funny.

5:16

Oh gosh, this is such a

5:18

time capsule in so many ways.

5:20

Good grief. Getting into this chapter.

5:22

I think we called this at

5:25

the beginning of this episode,

5:27

but literally we need to

5:29

max this entire chapter because

5:31

this is pretty much one

5:33

of the big world-building opportunities

5:35

that the movies did not

5:37

take. and there is so

5:39

much richness of detail going

5:41

on here. I think you

5:43

get a better understanding of

5:45

Harry's inner turmoil in this

5:47

chapter two that I don't

5:49

think we get to see

5:52

portrayed as deeply in the

5:54

films because they didn't have

5:56

enough time quite frankly to

5:58

adapt the entire book. But

6:00

yeah, Eric, tell us, tell

6:02

us about 2007. What past

6:04

the sniff test then? And

6:07

what do we need now?

6:09

In 2007, we got Mark

6:11

Williams, Fine Actor, in a paper

6:13

crown, raising a glass to Harry,

6:15

great, amazing, to Harry, he's great.

6:18

But rereading this chapter has shown

6:20

us that there is so... Much

6:22

more this chapter has amazing things

6:24

with tunks, moody, serious, former headmasters

6:26

and headmistresses of Hogwarts and everyone

6:28

and everything at St. Mongos. All

6:31

of that, all of it was

6:33

emitted from the movie. They better

6:35

not leave it out this time.

6:37

Or we'll have something to say

6:39

about it. Yeah, that's right. They're

6:41

going to need a Phoenix to

6:44

take care of what after we're

6:46

done with them. Would you say

6:48

this was the first of many

6:50

mistakes for director David Yates? No,

6:52

no, that's not his fault. That's

6:54

not his fault. I do like

6:57

to remind the audience from time

6:59

to time, we ended up hearing

7:01

that Warner Brothers seriously considered splitting

7:03

gobble to fire the book into

7:05

two movies. And if they had

7:07

gone through with that, presumably they

7:10

would have done the same for

7:12

order of the Phoenix Half Blood

7:14

Prince, and then of course they

7:16

did for Deathly Hollow. Slippery slope.

7:18

Yeah, I'm sure the movies would

7:20

have done great. gobbled a fire

7:23

one and two and yeah they

7:25

would have kept it up and

7:27

yeah we probably would have gotten

7:29

some of St. Moncos I think

7:31

but yeah it wasn't David Yates's

7:33

fault and this is my favorite

7:36

book and one of my least

7:38

favorite movies because they skip over

7:40

so much and they advanced the

7:42

plot with newspaper headlines and it's

7:44

just oh so oh right. I

7:46

don't want to call it lazy

7:49

but just hacked. It's hacked together.

7:51

Stitched. It's real crazy. I think

7:53

it's real creative with the montages.

7:55

I actually love Order of the

7:57

Phoenix because the things that they

7:59

manage to condense feel right to

8:02

tell one story, but... This chapter

8:04

does have so much that like

8:06

it is hairy. It's what he's

8:08

going through and I think that

8:10

the TV show would be able

8:12

to devote the proper time to

8:15

going through some of these things.

8:17

Oh, I hope so. Yeah. The

8:19

question I wanted to ask, though,

8:21

is do you feel like because

8:23

the world opened that much more

8:25

with the Ministry of Magic that

8:28

they decided not to then include

8:30

St. Mongos. They sacrificed one for

8:32

the other. Yes. It's like in

8:34

The Sims or in Tony Hawks

8:36

Pro Skater, Create a Skater Park,

8:38

where you reach the size limit.

8:41

They can only introduce one new

8:43

place per movie, otherwise the pacing's

8:45

off, the budget is off. It's

8:47

crazy. I think this discussion warrants

8:49

a certain audio clip to be

8:51

played. You know... Every

8:54

time I hear that I'm expecting

8:56

the Game of Thrones theme to

8:58

play after it. It's just the

9:00

way it's synced in my head.

9:03

And how many shows have we

9:05

seen on HBO since then, but

9:07

still, I'm the same way my

9:09

guy. It's always Game of Thrones

9:12

for me. Yeah, same. Well, back

9:14

to this particular fantasy universe, Harry

9:16

and Ron find themselves swept away

9:18

by Professor McGonagall who does believe

9:21

Harry. At the end of the

9:23

last chapter, he's very insistent and

9:25

he thinks no one believes him

9:28

about this vision he's just had.

9:30

And he's very insistent saying, I'm

9:32

not making it up, I wasn't

9:34

dreaming, it was real. She says,

9:37

I believe you, Potter, let's go,

9:39

takes Harry and Ron to Dumboldor's

9:41

office, where Harry recounts the events

9:43

of his dream Dumboldor in front

9:46

of Ron, by the way, which

9:48

definitely feels awkward when he gets

9:50

to the part about... being the

9:53

snake that attacked Arthur. And to

9:55

Dumboldor's credit, Andrew, I'm going to

9:57

give your boy some love here.

9:59

Yes, yes. He gets into

10:02

action immediately. Yes, quick,

10:04

efficient. What's about time? Life-saving

10:06

work. It is about time,

10:08

and it's good to see

10:11

though. I mean, the way

10:13

he immediately gets the band

10:15

together to investigate the situation

10:17

that Harry is sharing with

10:19

him. It's impressive. After three months

10:22

of sitting up in his office and

10:24

throwing ragers with the other headmasters, the

10:26

double doors finally get into business. Yeah,

10:28

I also do love how nosy the

10:30

portraits are in the scene, but you

10:32

also can't blame them given how boring

10:34

it must be to be hanging around

10:37

in a portrait all day, no matter

10:39

where you are. I think being in

10:41

double doors office is probably one of

10:43

the more interesting places to be hanging,

10:45

unless you're in like a very busy

10:47

hallway in Hogwarts. But yeah, they're all

10:49

pretending to sleep. Definitely listening

10:51

in, which I think we've all

10:54

been there, right? We pretend we're

10:56

asleep to, so our parents can

10:58

start talking, talking about things that

11:00

they wouldn't otherwise. Yeah, that's the

11:02

only way to learn how your

11:04

parents really feel about you. That

11:06

are extendable years. Well, you

11:08

called out the portraits Andrew,

11:11

so Dumboldore is speaking specifically

11:13

to Everard and Dylis, who

11:15

are former headmasters. And what

11:18

I love about this moment

11:20

and kind of what it

11:22

implies to me is that

11:25

it's Dumboldore's expectation that all

11:27

of the portraits are being

11:29

nosy because he might need

11:31

them. to act on his behalf

11:33

at the drop of a hat.

11:36

And we learned that Everard and

11:38

Dylis have these special portraits that

11:41

they're actually allowed to vacate in

11:43

order to go to a different

11:45

portrait at a different establishment. And

11:48

this is where we get our

11:50

first hint about what was up

11:52

with the empty portrait at Grimel

11:54

Place that Harry kept hearing snickering

11:56

coming from while he was there

11:58

over the summer. summer. But it

12:01

ends up being pretty cool

12:03

because we find out that

12:05

Dillis was at one point

12:07

overseeing St. Mungo's. So that's

12:09

where her portrait is. And

12:11

that Everard apparently has a

12:13

portrait somewhere near where Mr.

12:15

Weasley was standing guard in

12:17

the Department of Mysteries. And

12:20

he was able to go

12:22

there and make sure the

12:24

right people found Arthur. So

12:27

it's actually pretty brilliant to

12:29

strategically place people in this way

12:31

and make sure that Dumbledore

12:33

literally has all the chess pieces

12:35

kind of close to the

12:37

vest in his office. Yeah, it's

12:39

kind of like having a

12:42

web of spies without ever leaving

12:44

the office. It's like having

12:46

all your contacts and your Rolodex

12:48

who can find out information

12:50

for you are just right there

12:52

on the wall. How convenient

12:54

for somebody who is a master

12:56

manipulator to have a web

12:58

of spies or a web of

13:01

portraits. But what I found

13:03

so interesting about this is for

13:05

the number of times we've

13:07

been in Dumbledore's office, we've never

13:09

seen it operate in this

13:11

way. But it's almost like getting

13:13

a peek behind the curtain

13:15

a little bit. I would agree

13:17

with that. I think that

13:20

where we've always seen these old

13:22

former headmasters sort of napping,

13:24

the way in which Dumbledore utilizes

13:26

this network and springs into

13:28

gear is totally new to us.

13:30

And I think it has

13:32

to do with it's not for

13:34

Harry's benefit necessarily, but like

13:36

for us as the readers, this

13:39

is our, I don't know,

13:41

10th or eighth time in Dumbledore's

13:43

office. We're getting more information

13:45

as far as how this place

13:47

operates and how Dumbledore operates,

13:49

which is essential to I think

13:51

making sure Dumbledore has any

13:53

plot in this book. Yeah. Well,

13:55

he also puts Fox on

13:58

bridge patrol. We do get to

14:00

see towards the end of

14:02

the chapter before everybody takes the

14:04

poor Cata Gramel Place, Fox, there's just like a flash

14:06

in the room and a golden feather appears and dumpled doors

14:08

like, oh shoot, she knows you're out of

14:10

bed. So that was the Fox signal,

14:13

but Fox is also communicating

14:15

messages at the same time.

14:17

They get a letter from

14:19

Mrs. Wesley, for example, accompanied

14:21

by a gold feather. So

14:23

Fox is doing the Lord's

14:25

work over here, guard duty

14:28

and letter delivery. read about

14:30

this fragile silver instrument and

14:32

the only way I can

14:34

think of to describe this

14:37

is that it's like a

14:39

very eclectic magical magical

14:41

magic eight ball where Dumbledore

14:43

is asking it a question

14:46

and it is presumably

14:48

giving him an answer. Mike, can

14:50

you remind us what that answer

14:53

was, even though we don't

14:55

get it confirmed in this book?

14:57

So I looked up what... The author

14:59

had to say about this

15:01

in particular, and she said

15:03

that Dumbledore suspected that the

15:05

snake's essence was divided, that

15:07

it contained part of Voldemort's

15:09

soul, and that was why

15:11

it was so very adept

15:14

at doing Voldemort's bidding. So

15:16

I'm curious, do we think at

15:18

this point he also figured out that

15:20

Harry was a horkrux, hence his ability

15:22

to see through the eyes of the

15:24

snake. I think so because he was

15:27

already curious about Voldemort and horror crux

15:29

as his earliest chamber of secrets with

15:31

Tom Riddle's diary at this stage with

15:33

a few more years of research under

15:35

his belt and seeing what happened to

15:38

Harry yeah I can see him being

15:40

pretty convinced at this point that Harry

15:42

is a horror crux. Yeah and just based

15:44

on what he asks Harry he like

15:46

Harry is kind of avoided mentioning that

15:48

he was the snake up to that

15:50

point and Dumbledore is like really fishing

15:52

for that thing that's going to confirm

15:54

it. So, with the instrument, Dummel Dor

15:56

learns that the snake is a

15:59

horror crux. and with Harry's reply,

16:01

can reasonably assume that they all

16:03

are. Or cruxis. Yeah, it is

16:06

noted that Dumboldor wears a look

16:08

of grim satisfaction when... Yes, I

16:10

got it! Yeah, it's basically like,

16:13

ugh, I hate it when I'm

16:15

right, that's Dumbelore, basically. Sucks always

16:17

being rights. It's funny though because

16:19

that Laura you'd say that the

16:22

instrument is a bit like a

16:24

magic eight ball because that's also

16:26

what it's like to ask Dumbledore

16:29

a question before book seven You

16:31

know like you're like hey professor

16:33

why is this happening? He's like

16:35

reply hazy Harry try again later

16:38

Basically a last question you ask

16:40

I don't know we can't answer

16:42

and then at the end of

16:45

this book. He's like I'm gonna

16:47

tell you everything except I'm not

16:49

going to really tell you everything.

16:51

I'm going to tell you everything

16:54

because now the Madrigate Ball is

16:56

giving me permission to do so.

16:58

Do we think... Right. In essence,

17:01

divided, it is also potentially foreshadowing

17:03

the fact that Harry is a

17:05

horror crux too? Yeah. Well, between

17:08

this in essence divided line and

17:10

then the full text of the

17:12

prophecy, neither can live while the

17:14

other survives, it really sells that

17:17

there is sort of this intertwining

17:19

happening between Harry and Dumbledore. But

17:21

there were clues before it now,

17:24

the gleam of triumph moment from

17:26

the previous book, when Harry has

17:28

just revealed that Voldemort used his

17:30

blood. And so that's another way

17:33

in which there's just so many

17:35

ways in which they're connected that

17:37

I'd be surprised if that instrument

17:40

didn't say, same essence divided. Yeah.

17:42

Well, Dumboldor is still a man

17:44

of action here. He sends McGonagall

17:47

to get the other Weasley kids.

17:49

And he sends Phineas Ny jealous

17:51

black to inform serious that Harry

17:53

and the Weasley's are coming for

17:56

Christmas, because surprise that other portraitic

17:58

grim old place. is finite. Phineas

18:00

is such a diva here. Like,

18:03

why is he so obsessed with

18:05

himself? Honestly, the casting of Simon

18:07

Pegg as this character was spot

18:09

on and they really should get

18:12

him for the show. Yeah, yeah,

18:14

I agree. It was also an

18:16

interesting bit of lore that we

18:19

learn here because the other portraits

18:21

start getting mad at Phineas that

18:23

he is not assisting Dumboldor as

18:26

he is supposed to as a

18:28

portrait in his office. And one

18:30

of the witches in a portrait

18:32

starts brandishing her wands in sort

18:35

of a threatening manner. And now

18:37

I'm wondering what exactly could she

18:39

do to Phineas? Can these, what

18:42

attack each other? Can it hurt?

18:44

the portrait version? Like what are

18:46

the repercussions of being attacked? Yeah,

18:48

if not physical pain then certainly

18:51

emotional trauma. I'm trying to think

18:53

of like the fat lady's attacked

18:55

by serious and that bothers her

18:58

quite a bit. I think more

19:00

than just her vanity. You got

19:02

to imagine that the portraits have

19:04

some level of like ability to

19:07

feel or sense when someone's coming

19:09

into attack them because they won't

19:11

do their job. Yeah, well, and

19:14

presumably, if you're not doing your

19:16

job and you're hung up in

19:18

the headmaster's office, you can be

19:21

demoted. Oh, and I don't know

19:23

what that means for a portrait,

19:25

like, does it... Bottom of the

19:27

ocean, the most boring, like, existence,

19:30

you know, snape's bedroom. Yeah, I'm

19:32

imagining them just getting... piled up

19:34

in a broom closet somewhere. Yeah,

19:37

that would suck. Spending eternity there.

19:39

Like, I don't know, I would

19:41

be motivated to be helpful because

19:43

I would want to stay in

19:46

the office. And what else are

19:48

you doing all day? I mean,

19:50

right. The only argument Phineas has

19:53

is that it's late at night,

19:55

but you're sleeping. all day you're

19:57

like a cat or a dog

20:00

all you do is sleep yeah

20:02

as a portrait like you've got

20:04

nothing else to do all day

20:06

yeah and I love though that

20:09

there is this sort of dual

20:11

purpose because it's very common for

20:13

famous past heads of a school

20:16

to be represented in some form

20:18

in a portrait in the school

20:20

later. That just makes sense. We

20:22

honor those that have come before.

20:25

But this network of spies aspect,

20:27

like these headmasters are essentially lending

20:29

their expertise to the degree which

20:32

portraits can retain their knowledge

20:34

or even just personalities. They

20:36

are all additional helpers for

20:38

the current headmaster of Hogwarts.

20:40

It's like ever since, master

20:42

that has come can continue

20:44

to help with the running

20:46

of the school by existing

20:48

in this form in the

20:50

portrait that's enchanted. So I

20:52

love this idea that they

20:54

have this honor bound duty

20:56

to help and assist and

20:58

Phineas is just not having it. Part

21:00

of it though is is I would

21:02

wonder a little bit more about Everard

21:05

and Dylis and maybe what house

21:07

they were in when you think

21:09

about Phineas he was in

21:11

slitherin. So there's probably

21:13

a natural tendency right off

21:16

the bat for him to

21:18

be combative with somebody like

21:21

Dumbledore. And there is also the

21:23

fact that he's sending him to

21:25

go to his family home, right?

21:27

At least as it stands

21:29

right now, I don't know

21:31

how many generations of blacks

21:33

lived in Grimald Place, but

21:36

there's more to this. And

21:38

so I think it's not

21:40

just him being a diva.

21:42

being able to create a

21:44

little bit of controversy because of

21:46

who he is. Do we

21:48

think this is how

21:50

the order communicated before

21:52

during the first war? Or if

21:54

they kind of tuned things

21:56

up here? Portraits? I mean,

21:59

portraits? in the way that

22:01

they're using him, the fact that

22:03

of course, you know, we learn

22:05

they use patronesses as well. I'm

22:07

just wondering if they learned anything

22:09

from the last war apart from

22:11

like the Fidelius charm isn't foolproof,

22:13

so maybe don't use that one

22:15

again. It's a good lesson. I

22:18

would have to wonder, just going

22:20

off of what we were just

22:22

talking about with Phineas, that using

22:24

portraits comes with risk. who knows

22:26

if you can actually trust them

22:28

either to do the work that

22:30

you're requesting of them or to

22:32

not share information with if they

22:34

have a portrait somewhere else. That's

22:36

interesting. It is interesting that this

22:39

book does seem to have a

22:41

subplot of like security measures and

22:43

how they fail. Creature is another

22:45

example who, you know, interprets Sirius's

22:47

flippant remarks to give himself permission

22:49

to leave, which Dabi could already

22:51

do, so house those aren't secure.

22:53

Portraits, we just made the case

22:55

aren't secure. It's, you know, a

22:57

real shame, but I think the

23:00

one thing that is happening now

23:02

that didn't happen to the order

23:04

the first time is this aggressive

23:06

oversight of the flu network specifically.

23:08

Yeah. And this is a problem

23:10

now because, you know, potentially... Dumbler

23:12

would be able to utilize the

23:14

flu network in getting the word

23:16

out or in saving Mr. Weasley.

23:18

He doesn't have that option because

23:21

it's now being monitored by Umbridge.

23:23

And so that's kind of the

23:25

thing that I think that's why

23:27

we're seeing Fox used in this

23:29

way. We've never seen Fox used

23:31

before and all this other stuff.

23:33

Like I think the flu network

23:35

would probably be unregulated or it's

23:37

kind of thing we'd have to

23:39

know where to look. But if

23:42

you're at Hogwarts and somebody's watching

23:44

over Hogwarts, they could find you

23:46

if you try and use it.

23:48

Yeah. I did find it so

23:50

interesting that Umbridge apparently just knew

23:52

that they were up and out

23:54

of bed. Like, yeah, why is

23:56

that? Does she have invisible alarm?

23:58

triggered by common room entrances if

24:00

people are coming and going in

24:03

the middle of the night like

24:05

I'm just wondering is is mrs.

24:07

Norris spying and then reporting to

24:09

use back filch is she enlisting

24:11

other Hogwarts students to spy within

24:13

the houses that would mean a

24:15

griffin door right I know there's

24:17

a new petting Peter Pettigrew who

24:19

went and like told her Yeah,

24:21

I would say Percy, but he's

24:23

not there anymore. Oh, that's, yeah.

24:26

Laura, you just mentioned Mrs. Norris,

24:28

but it's McGonagall who tells her

24:30

to shoe away on their way

24:32

to Dumboldor's office. So maybe there

24:34

is something to that. There you

24:36

go. That's probably how she found

24:38

out. Man, I had this whole

24:40

idea of like umbrage just has

24:42

a scream detector in Hogwarts and

24:44

when she's not causing a scream,

24:47

she like perks up. It's like

24:49

something else is going because Harry

24:51

was very noisy, but he's up

24:53

at the top of a tower,

24:55

so I don't think you'd really

24:57

hear it. But yeah, Mrs. Norris

24:59

got to be the way. Yeah.

25:01

Well, we're going to talk a

25:03

little bit about a death that

25:05

could have been in this chapter

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ebbglis. Allergic reactions can occur. Tell

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trip. Book it with price line. line. And

27:17

we're back. Andrew. What was the original

27:19

intent with this attack on Arthur? Yeah, so

27:21

I love this bit of behind-the-scenes info,

27:23

because of course when you're writing

27:26

a series like this, you have

27:28

to make a lot of major

27:30

decisions, and maybe at one point

27:32

you're convinced you're going to kill

27:35

a particular character, and then you

27:37

change your mind. That's actually what

27:39

happened. with Arthur Weasley,

27:41

the author said that she thought

27:43

about killing Arthur because parents

27:45

had to die in order

27:48

to raise the threats of

27:50

Voldemort in the series. But

27:52

she also said in a tweet

27:54

that Arthur lived so loop and

27:56

had to die, I'm sorry, I

27:58

didn't enjoy doing it. the only time

28:00

my editor ever saw me cry

28:02

was over the fate of Teddy.

28:04

So I find it very interesting

28:06

that Arthur almost died here. But

28:08

I'm glad he didn't because I

28:10

think it's wonderful that Harry did

28:12

actually see this attack happen and

28:14

was able to save Arthur thanks

28:16

to it. I do agree that

28:18

if Arthur had died apart from

28:21

what he like... brings to the

28:23

Weasley family in terms of like

28:25

I got, I don't know, continued

28:27

comfort until Fred's death. I think

28:29

the fact that Harry was the

28:31

snake would have been absolutely awful

28:33

if he had really died because

28:35

Harry never would have forgave himself.

28:37

Yes. And that would have been

28:39

an even deeper kind of scar

28:41

that never would have left her.

28:43

And so soon after watching Cedric

28:45

die. Ugh. And I think too,

28:47

it would have put dumel door

28:49

in hotter water. for not explaining

28:51

this sooner. I think at the

28:53

very end of this chapter, correct

28:55

me if I'm wrong, but I

28:57

think Tonk says, or maybe it's

28:59

Moody, that Dumbledore seems to have

29:01

been waiting for something just like

29:03

this to happen. And this one

29:05

is the confirmation. So this idea

29:07

that Harry was not being prepared

29:09

or only after this occurrence, he's...

29:11

taken to oclamency lessons is sort

29:13

of a part of neglect. If

29:15

Dumbler had any idea this was

29:17

going to happen, he could have

29:19

prepared Harry a little bit better

29:21

and because he didn't, Harry's going

29:23

to blame himself fully. So, Eric,

29:25

I wanted to pull on that

29:27

thread a little bit with what

29:29

you were saying about Harry and

29:32

how he would blame himself because

29:34

I don't know that the Weasley's

29:36

would ever forgive him. I don't

29:38

know that Ron and him would...

29:40

continue to be best buds throughout

29:43

the rest of his time at

29:45

Hogwarts. I don't think that there's

29:47

a likelihood just from how we

29:49

see Fred George Ginny even react

29:51

to him in this chapter that

29:54

that whole dynamic would be completely

29:56

shattered. So I have to imagine

29:58

from a writing standpoint that was

30:00

part of the consideration here that

30:02

if you can Mr. Weasley in

30:05

this way, it forever damages Harry

30:07

and Ron's relationship. They're never going

30:09

to trust him. And you know,

30:11

I'm glad you bring that up,

30:13

Mike, because I wanted to ask

30:16

about Harry and Ron's relationship. Ron

30:18

is in every scene in this

30:20

chapter, nearly every scene in this

30:22

chapter. He's quiet. He doesn't say

30:24

a thing. And granted... a lot

30:27

of the weaslies are in shock

30:29

right now for very understandable reasons.

30:31

But Harry, you know, Ron is

30:33

next to Harry when he's telling

30:35

Dumbledore, when they go to the

30:38

office, when they're at Grimold, placed

30:40

together, and just apart from shock,

30:42

what do we think is actually

30:44

going on in Ron's mind? Is

30:46

there this possibility that Ron is

30:49

at like some kind of friendship

30:51

breaking moment with Harry because he's

30:53

afraid of him or weirded out

30:55

or concerned? I think there is

30:57

something there because at one point

31:00

when Harry is retelling the story

31:02

to Fred George and Ginny, but

31:04

he's telling it as though he

31:06

observed it from the side and

31:08

not from the snakes point of

31:11

view, Ron does cast kind of

31:13

an awkward glance at him because

31:15

Ron heard the first telling of

31:17

this story where Dumbled or got

31:20

Harry to say, I was the

31:22

snake. So I think Ron's probably

31:24

feeling inner conflict right now between

31:26

his best friend and his father's

31:28

life. Because deep down, he knows

31:31

that his best friend would never

31:33

intentionally want to do anything to

31:35

hurt Arthur. But when you're in

31:37

that state of fight or flight,

31:39

panic, some of that instinct is

31:42

going to kick in and I

31:44

think that's what's happening here. I

31:46

do place a lot of the

31:48

blame here at the foot of

31:50

Dumbldore and Eric. See that you

31:53

were questioning why am I bringing

31:55

up dumble door when you're asking

31:57

about Ron? But that's kind of

31:59

the point because this is all

32:01

taking place in his office and

32:04

clearly he has More knowledge about

32:06

the situation at hand Does he

32:08

have to share all of it

32:10

here? No, I will give him

32:12

that. But he's also the headmaster

32:15

of the school. He has an

32:17

obligation to these students. And given

32:19

the traumatic experience that Harry has

32:21

just been through, the way he

32:23

treats him is unacceptable. And by

32:26

association, the way that he's treating

32:28

Ron is unacceptable. They need a

32:30

softer hand here. And they get

32:32

sent off to arguably. Maybe with

32:34

the exception of Snape, the worst

32:37

person that they could send him

32:39

to because he's not emotionally mature

32:41

or equipped to handle the situation

32:43

in serious. We'll get to bashing

32:45

serious though. I have a question

32:48

and I'm ready for it and

32:50

I largely agree. But is it

32:52

clever though? Is Dumbledore justified? Is

32:54

Dumbledore justified, is it justified due

32:56

to the last three seconds? before

32:59

Harry's port key kicks in and

33:01

they're they make eye contact and

33:03

Harry wants to kill Del Moldor

33:05

all of a sudden he doesn't

33:07

know what's going on. Well you

33:10

would want to too I mean

33:12

the guy has ignored you for

33:14

months at this point he's not

33:16

said but a word to you

33:19

he's playing scared at this point

33:21

he's so afraid that there's this

33:23

connection which yeah there's a connection

33:25

but you know what like ban

33:27

up and deal with the situation.

33:30

This is a fast-moving situation and

33:32

I dumbled or moves in a

33:34

very quick manner as we were

33:36

saying earlier and I don't think

33:38

there's too much time for for

33:41

much else. I think the priority

33:43

is to get all the weaslies

33:45

together in a safe location. Well

33:47

there's only been the last few

33:49

months for him to work with

33:52

Harry. to better prepare him for

33:54

a situation like this. Could he

33:56

have anticipated this? Well, clearly he

33:58

anticipates they're connected somehow. He hasn't

34:00

been looking at him all year.

34:03

But it gets confirmed when they

34:05

make eye contact. And here's the

34:07

thing. It's not like Harry wants

34:09

to go down with her because

34:11

Dumbler has been ignoring him. Harry's

34:14

annoyed with Dumbler because he wants...

34:16

like been ignoring him, but this

34:18

surge of hatred comes to pretty

34:20

much directly from Baltimore through Harry

34:22

and that's what happens when they

34:25

finally make eye contact. And so

34:27

I think it retroactively might justify

34:29

Dumboldor's ignoring him, which hurts me

34:31

to my core, but if it

34:33

proves that there is this connection

34:36

that there's so much more going

34:38

on and while I think there's

34:40

a way for Dumboldor to have

34:42

been safe and done a lot

34:44

of this two months ago, two

34:47

months ago. I think that when

34:49

that occurs, you kind of as

34:51

the reader, like, oh, Harry's volatile,

34:53

like, beyond his own control here,

34:55

we'll obviously get more of this

34:58

later, but that explains the way

35:00

the last three months. I don't

35:02

think it's all Voldemort, though. I

35:04

think part of this is Harry.

35:06

I think this is natural emotion

35:09

for the way he's been treated

35:11

for the last several months. I

35:13

wouldn't put this all on the

35:15

horkrocks or Voldemort. Coming through Harry.

35:18

I I think some of this

35:20

is Harry back me up more

35:22

than call I was going to

35:24

act it's magic I was going

35:26

to say this kind of makes

35:29

me think about what we learn

35:31

about Horcracks in deathly hallows how

35:33

They affect some people more than

35:35

others depending on what you're going

35:37

through at the time. So I

35:40

can definitely see Harry being primed

35:42

to be vulnerable to the Horcracks

35:44

in this moment. So I think

35:46

there's definitely Horcracks impact here. There's

35:48

no doubt about that. But I

35:51

think Harry's mental guard is kind

35:53

of down because he's so angry.

35:55

And that just makes him more

35:57

susceptible to it. Yeah, I agree.

35:59

It's kind of like what when

36:02

we get into the aquimency lessons

36:04

later. After those lessons after you've

36:06

been stretching that muscle you are

36:08

weaker than ever and susceptible to

36:10

damage, and so that's what sort

36:13

of the warning is. And I

36:15

think because Harry's just had this

36:17

traumatic experience, he's weaker, and I

36:19

think it really means that Voldemort,

36:21

even without Voldemort's trying, maybe Voldemort's

36:24

to sleep somewhere, you know, all

36:26

of a sudden can basically see

36:28

through Harry's eyes as they're able

36:30

to much, much later with Harry's

36:32

seeing through Voldemort's eyes in book

36:35

seven, I think that Voldemort sees

36:37

all of a sudden the man,

36:39

the only one he ever feared.

36:41

his sworn mortal enemy right through

36:43

Harry's eyes all of a sudden

36:46

gets a vision of him because

36:48

this is what's happening to another

36:50

one of his horror cruxes and

36:52

I think that's where the hatred

36:54

comes from and Harry can like

36:57

Harry would have strag- if there

36:59

were another second before the pork

37:01

he took him away I think

37:03

Voldemort would have possessed Harry which

37:05

is a big thing and actually

37:08

attacked him. I don't know. I

37:10

could also see Harry attacking Demodor.

37:12

That's a crazy thought. Dumbledore would

37:14

probably successfully and quickly overpower him

37:17

and I think also understand where

37:19

all of Harry's rage is coming

37:21

from. I would have liked to

37:23

have seen that. I also think

37:25

it's important to remember that Harry

37:28

is a 15-year-old young man, lots

37:30

of hormones raging, given everything that

37:32

just happened, lots of adrenaline pumping.

37:34

And there is no greater sign

37:36

of disrespect when having a conversation

37:39

with somebody than to not look

37:41

at them. And that's what Dumboldor

37:43

has done for months. And so

37:45

I'm not saying that I disagree

37:47

with the fact that Voldemort is

37:50

part of this equation, but I

37:52

don't think he's the whole equation.

37:54

Yeah. Well, let's, let's talk about

37:56

when Harry and the Weesleys end

37:58

up at Grimold place, they take

38:01

the port key from Dopoldor's office.

38:03

Harry, you know, briefly wants to

38:05

attack Dumbledore. And we know that

38:07

Ginny and the twins are like

38:09

ready to throw hands with Sirius

38:12

who's trying to stop them from

38:14

going. to the hospital right now,

38:16

and he rightly points out to

38:18

them, you all can't show up

38:20

at the hospital claiming to know

38:23

about an accident that no one

38:25

else has heard of yet. Oh,

38:27

interesting. That seems like a good

38:29

mature point. That's a well-thought-out argument.

38:31

It is. Unfortunately, it's not what

38:34

you say, it's how you say

38:36

it, and serious just isn't... And

38:38

it's not his fault, but he's

38:40

just not equipped to deal with

38:42

this superwell, and it does kind

38:45

of feel like a bunch of

38:47

teenagers trying to reason with each

38:49

other. But the person that I'm

38:51

really most interested in here is

38:53

Ginny, because serious talks about this,

38:56

talks about how you can't go

38:58

out claiming knowledge of something. you

39:00

know, that has not yet come

39:02

to pass as far as officials

39:04

and hospitals and even your mother

39:07

knows. So you kind of have

39:09

to just stay put and let

39:11

us work it out. Ginny's the

39:13

first one to silently go and

39:16

sit down and she spends the

39:18

rest of the night sitting in

39:20

calm, contemplative silence. And it makes

39:22

me wonder if she's putting two

39:24

and two together here. and realizing

39:27

that Voldemort is somehow penetrating Harry's

39:29

mind? Well, isn't that interesting coming

39:31

from the person who had Tom

39:33

Riddle's diary? Yep. I could see

39:35

that. I could also see she's

39:38

watching all of these boys and

39:40

men bicker, and she doesn't want

39:42

any part of it right now.

39:44

And I think... There's just a

39:46

common thread here with the weaslies

39:49

in this chapter, the weasily kids,

39:51

where they're just left in the

39:53

dark. And we're going to discuss

39:55

this a little later too. But

39:57

it's really awful how they aren't

40:00

as informed as they should be

40:02

when it's your father who was

40:04

attacked. I can understand other people

40:06

not knowing. Even Harry not not

40:08

being told what happened to Arthur

40:11

and why Arthur was there to

40:13

begin with but for the kids

40:15

that not even know That's just

40:17

that's just wrong and I'm gonna

40:19

say something not the most Tuard

40:22

about serious right now But his

40:24

first response about it all is

40:26

that your father knew what he

40:28

signed up for the kids don't

40:30

want to hear that yeah, serious

40:33

is like that's he was prepared

40:35

to die. It's fine and like

40:37

serious values and honorable death good

40:39

for him what it's not what

40:41

it's right he's right the kids

40:44

did not want to hear that

40:46

what do we think serious is

40:48

state of mind is at this

40:50

particular moment it seems when they

40:52

first arrived that he might have

40:55

been on a little bit of

40:57

a bender mmm yeah he smells

40:59

like stale liquor I think the

41:01

text says it's clear that he's

41:03

been knocking him back Me on

41:06

a Friday night, am I right?

41:08

Knock and back of me recording

41:10

episode 700 of Michael Cast. Yeah,

41:12

the 423 is how many bottles

41:15

I didn't know, but yeah, I

41:17

feel like the serious is just

41:19

happy. He couldn't have asked for

41:21

a better circumstance. It's like terrible

41:23

circumstance, but... He's so happy for

41:26

company and this speaks to something

41:28

that Dumboldor takes credit for as

41:30

a failing at the end of

41:32

this book leaving serious in such

41:34

isolation. Harry knows how miserable serious

41:37

is. It weighs heavily on Harry

41:39

to the point where it's the

41:41

whole setup for why serious would

41:43

recklessly go out and get himself

41:45

in trouble at the ministry later

41:48

in the book. But for serious

41:50

to finally have company and even

41:52

under these negative circumstances the fact

41:54

that they're staying for Christmas, I

41:56

think his life was just made

41:59

because he's so lonely. And that's

42:01

why he's probably drinking. when we

42:03

see him. Part of the reason...

42:05

I think he's drinking because he's

42:07

miserable, yeah. Yeah. Like, nothing better

42:10

to do, no one to talk

42:12

to. I just think it comes

42:14

down to the fact that at

42:16

this particular moment, he's not mature

42:18

enough to handle this situation and

42:21

he lacks the ability to appropriately

42:23

sympathize with Arthur's kids. He's not

42:25

wrong in his overall approach and

42:27

some of the things that he's

42:29

saying, but it just needs a

42:32

softer touch. Well, there's no, there's

42:34

no consequences for this. I think

42:36

he does fine. The kids get

42:38

to where they need to be.

42:40

Well, not to turn this into

42:43

a hate fest on serious, but

42:45

there's another interaction in this chapter

42:47

where he kind of drops the

42:49

ball in my opinion, and it's

42:51

with Harry. Harry pulls serious aside

42:54

hoping that, you know, of all

42:56

people, his godfather would hear him

42:58

out with his concerns about... Honestly,

43:00

feeling snake-like and feeling concerned that

43:02

he actually does want to attack

43:05

people. We see Harry later, after

43:07

this, afraid to go to sleep

43:09

because he's afraid that he's going

43:11

to slither off and attack somebody

43:14

else, he's really trying to open

43:16

up to Sirius about this and

43:18

Sirius is kind of dismissive about

43:20

it. I don't think he means

43:22

to be. I think he's trying

43:25

in his own way to be

43:27

reassuring and saying... It's probably just,

43:29

you know, residual, like, energy from,

43:31

you know, the vision that you

43:33

had, and not really taking the

43:36

time to think about, hey, we

43:38

know there's some kind of connection

43:40

between Harry and Voldemort. Maybe I

43:42

should listen to what this kid

43:44

is saying. Yeah, I agree. This

43:47

is, this is, uh, serious Mrs.

43:49

The Marquette, being able to, kind

43:51

of comfort Harry because he largely

43:53

doesn't. Believe that it's a threat

43:55

or is connected in any way.

43:58

I would say you know for

44:00

being a member of the Order

44:02

of the Phoenix, Dumbledore maybe should

44:04

have clued in some of the

44:06

order members, including Sirius, that something

44:09

like this might happen. Do we

44:11

think Sirius has any idea of

44:13

what actually is going on? And,

44:15

because I'm not convinced he does.

44:17

And then my other question is,

44:19

is Sirius just trying to make

44:21

Harry feel better, not worry him too

44:24

much? Yeah, Sirius is like, the right

44:26

answer when somebody comes to you in

44:28

great turmoil. and they're a child and

44:30

it's 3am is go to bed you'll feel

44:32

better and it's the wrong thing to say

44:34

to Harry it doesn't work because obviously Harry

44:36

has reasons why he wouldn't want to

44:39

sleep but it's that thing about that

44:41

Michael was saying about his overall approach

44:43

right and so he's like Harry it's

44:45

okay you're still exhausted you have this

44:48

great ordeal if you sleep I'm sure

44:50

things will be better in the morning

44:52

and it's like that it's not wrong

44:54

that you'll feel better because you'll feel

44:56

better because you're sleep deprived now But

44:59

it's not what Harry needs. Harry needs

45:01

somebody to believe him. And especially the

45:03

fact that, like, Harry doesn't like recounting

45:05

this story. He hated doing it the

45:08

three or four times. He's already

45:10

had to do it. But he

45:12

rushes into the closet with Sirius

45:14

and is like, I need to

45:16

tell you what's going on, hoping

45:18

to get something in return that's

45:21

of equal value and he doesn't

45:23

get it. Sirius has like special

45:25

insight. About that, but it none

45:27

of it comes to like because

45:29

serious doesn't kind of hasn't been

45:31

prepped to believe Harry Very

45:33

specifically about all the snake

45:35

stuff. I think the reassurance

45:37

he needed was from Dumbledore

45:39

Not from serious and he

45:41

doesn't get it Well fortunately

45:44

for Harry the narrative quickly

45:46

becomes thank God for Harry.

45:48

Thank God you were in the snake because

45:50

you got we got him in time And

45:52

that is something, although Harry still blames

45:54

himself to some extent, that really greatly

45:57

eases the tension on the back half

45:59

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your viability, only on Zillow.

50:30

these two ever deigned to show up in

50:32

muggle clothes to get into

50:34

this hospital and that made me

50:36

wonder is there, you know, a

50:39

private more elite hospital or

50:41

facility for people like

50:43

the Malfois. Oh God, they

50:45

probably have their own doctor.

50:47

There is precedent here. Who

50:49

like comes to their house. Yeah.

50:52

There is precedent here in the in

50:54

the muggle world. I was living in the

50:56

Hollywood, LA area for nine years of

50:58

my life, and one time I needed

51:00

a doctor and I called them up

51:02

and they told me they can't see

51:04

me because it was a doctor's

51:06

office for celebrities only. Like, rich,

51:08

well-known high-profile people only.

51:11

And I couldn't believe it.

51:13

Like, what? They're out there.

51:15

What? But your name wasn't on

51:17

the list? And so I'm like,

51:19

you can't. But I'm a podcaster!

51:21

Don't you know who I am?

51:24

No, you invented the Sims? That's

51:26

what I should have said. I'm

51:28

Will Wright, creator of the Sims.

51:30

Yeah. And then my other thought

51:33

is, it is an interesting idea

51:35

that the pure bloods might not

51:37

want to dress up in muggle

51:40

clothing. But also, if your

51:42

leg is in serious trouble, I don't.

51:44

I don't know. I think there's another

51:46

entrance. Like here's the thing is like

51:48

you're not going to be forced to

51:50

dress up, go through Muggle London to

51:53

get there. That's how these guys

51:55

get here, but remember that they're

51:57

still being inconspicuous and undercover at

51:59

the moment. There's... There's bound to

52:01

be flu flus, fireplaces here at

52:03

mongos. There's bound to be like,

52:05

I don't know, a broom entrance,

52:07

like broom parking on the side.

52:10

These are visitors. These are not

52:12

the people, like think about the

52:14

people who are being brought in.

52:16

There has to be to your

52:19

point, Eric, another entrance that they're

52:21

coming through. I will also say

52:23

if you are grievously injured, you

52:25

have bites or an artifact, did

52:27

something horrible to you, you won't

52:30

care so much about what you're

52:32

wearing. Yeah, exactly. But I also

52:34

do kind of find it a

52:36

plot hole how they enter through

52:39

this glass exterior and no muggles

52:41

on the street happen to notice

52:43

and the reason in the book

52:45

is because the muggles can't be

52:47

bothered looking at ugly window displays?

52:50

Come on, people are still looking

52:52

in that general direction. This seems

52:54

like a lazy entrance. She could

52:56

have thought up something a little

52:59

more clever. I think it's a

53:01

combination of it. Well, it's like

53:03

if you remember Harry, this is

53:05

the Harry's first and only time

53:07

at the entrance of St. Mongos,

53:10

but at the entrance to the

53:12

Leaky Cauldron, I think, he's able

53:14

to track people's eyes looking from

53:16

like the left of where it

53:19

is to the immediate right, like

53:21

their eyes just dart like across

53:23

it. So there's clearly a charm

53:25

and a spell. Oh, same with

53:27

Platform 9 and 3 quarters, another

53:30

huge one that we sometimes get

53:32

little bits of writing saying nobody's

53:34

actually watching them disappear through the

53:36

barrier in general. I think it's

53:39

the same spell in addition to

53:41

the joke dialogue where it's like

53:43

muggles don't notice nothing. Like it's

53:45

all funny, but it's all an

53:47

explanation for why nobody's watching them

53:50

enter. That's fun, set of an

53:52

ambulance. That is fun. That is

53:54

fun. That's fun. Like a stretcher

53:56

suspended between maybe two broom sticks?

53:59

Yeah. That would kind of suck

54:01

to get whipped up by the

54:03

wind as you're being transported and

54:05

you're ill, but... Oh yeah, that

54:07

would be awful. That's just... the

54:10

crazy wizarding world for you. The

54:12

carriage that Grindlewall breaks out of

54:14

at the end, at the start

54:16

of what, the second movie, it's

54:19

got to be like a little

54:21

portable ambulance kind of thing. Yeah,

54:23

definitely it has to be some

54:25

kind of emergency intake, but speaking

54:28

of like the infrastructure of the

54:30

hospital, we do get a high

54:32

level overview of the range of

54:34

possible magical injuries from unliftable jinxes

54:36

to vanishing sickness all the way

54:39

to broom crashes. So does the

54:41

broomulents pick you up from the

54:43

broom crash? I would say maybe

54:45

that's why there's no broom blences

54:48

because brooms crash and seriously injure

54:50

people. Yeah, perhaps. And they'd always

54:52

be having to upgrade. Think about

54:54

how often a new broom comes

54:56

out that's faster. And then there'd

54:59

be an issue if you, ah,

55:01

these brombalances are still clean sweeps.

55:03

Where's my nimbus? Where's my fireball

55:05

broomblins? I like broomblins. It's a,

55:08

yeah. Grindelball, it's aerial carriage. Doesn't

55:10

somebody get pushed out of it

55:12

or falls out or something like

55:14

that. So maybe that's not too

55:16

safe either. And I don't open

55:19

the door when you're in there,

55:21

but. It would kind of be

55:23

a problem if thestrels are taking

55:25

you to the hospital, you wouldn't

55:28

have a high degree of confidence

55:30

that you would get there safely

55:32

because of the, you know, the

55:34

bad things that are said about

55:36

the strels. He throws more Antonio

55:39

out of the, uh... Antonio, that's,

55:41

the lizard, yeah. Kisses him first.

55:43

But yeah. Was it a chupacabra?

55:45

Yeah, that's it, yeah. Why did,

55:48

why did that exist? Well, thinking

55:50

about, you know, the various afflictions

55:52

that we see referenced on the

55:54

board at the welcome desk, does

55:56

this imply that all other non-magically

55:59

afflicted illnesses can just be magically

56:01

addressed? I'm thinking like, what about

56:03

cancer? What about heart disease? Like,

56:05

are these things that wizards can...

56:08

magic better and if so why

56:10

are they holding out on everyone

56:12

else? Yeah do good for the

56:14

world. Stenchative secrecy. Yeah. It's true.

56:16

No but it was interesting to

56:19

me that they can fix the

56:21

muggle injuries easily but not magical

56:23

damage. Look at Arthur still bleeding

56:25

when Harry and coming and go

56:28

to visit him in the hospital.

56:30

They can't easily fix that. And

56:32

yet they have a chip on

56:34

their shoulder because, oh, we don't

56:36

have doctors, we have healers. They

56:39

can do everything without being invasive.

56:41

But they can't fix Arthur. And

56:43

I know that's a special circumstance

56:45

being bit by Baltimore Snake, but

56:48

still, check yourself. Yeah. I think

56:50

it makes sense to me that

56:52

magical wounds would be harder to

56:54

heal with magic than non-match. It's

56:56

just like the next level of

56:59

attack or damage. Yeah. Yeah. But

57:01

I do like the idea that

57:03

there's over-the-counter potions of the sort

57:05

for remedies that still trip us

57:08

muggles up. That would be kind

57:10

of cool. If Wizards have largely

57:12

figured out. I mean, they can

57:14

regrow bones. They can, I think

57:16

Arthur's taking a blood replenishment potion,

57:19

like some of these things that

57:21

are very just offhandly mentioned would

57:23

save real muggle lives. By the

57:25

way, just quick shout out here

57:28

to Broderick Bode. We'll come back

57:30

to why you're important later, buddy,

57:32

but nice to you. Little reference

57:34

to him in this chapter. Yeah,

57:36

he did have a visitor. What

57:39

do you think the visitor was

57:41

there for? Yeah, probably to silence

57:43

the unspeakable for ever. Yeah, moral

57:45

support, yeah. Moral support to make

57:48

him be quiet forever. Well, as

57:50

is called out, Arthur is pretty

57:52

chipper, despite the fact that he

57:54

can't stop bleeding. And this made

57:57

me wonder if, you know, we

57:59

know there's something special about Nagini's

58:01

poison that... his wounds from healing.

58:03

Is this a maledictus thing? Like,

58:05

are all maledictus is deadly in

58:08

some capacity when they're fully transformed?

58:10

Or is this just like

58:12

Nakeni's specialty because she's Voldemort's?

58:15

It's hard to say. But I think

58:17

it is a maledictus thing because

58:19

the maledictus is referred to as

58:22

a blood curse. And so everything

58:24

about Nakena is cursed. I just

58:26

don't know if the author had...

58:28

determined that Nogini was a

58:31

maledictus at this point. I haven't

58:33

gotten that in question. Yeah, I don't

58:35

think, I think that was a

58:37

little bit of a retcon if

58:40

I had to guess. Assuming, assuming

58:42

then if at this point in

58:44

the story's development, writing, and publication

58:46

that she's not a maledictus, then

58:49

the answer has to be she's

58:51

just a venom. But exotic enough

58:53

to throw the London wizards for

58:55

a loop with her venom. But

58:57

there is precedent in nature

58:59

for the saliva preventing

59:01

wounds from closing of

59:04

venomous creatures. That is a

59:06

real thing, for sure. But Arthur

59:08

has other more pressing concerns,

59:10

right, Michael? He wants to

59:12

see where the muggles are being

59:14

treated that have been brought to

59:17

St. Mungos. Oh, Arthur. I do

59:19

just... Love that his love for muggles

59:21

just continues to shine through no matter

59:23

the situation that he's in but I

59:25

also think part of that I think

59:27

is a misdirect Oh, yeah, it could be

59:29

partly that but I think this also

59:31

just speaks to his current spirits and

59:33

Health that he's able to think about

59:35

something like that as opposed to his

59:38

own health like he's ready to get

59:40

out of the hospital. He says in

59:42

this chapter if it weren't for the

59:44

fact that he keeps bleeding so he

59:46

keeps bleeding for the basically recovered or

59:48

on the road to recovery and he

59:50

can get back to his passions of

59:52

rubber ducks and muggle things other muggle

59:54

things. But yeah I think I think

59:56

mikas onto something was saying that this

59:59

might have been an attempt to distract

1:00:01

because we see Fred and George

1:00:03

really trying to grill Mr. Weasley

1:00:05

about what he was doing and

1:00:08

why he was doing it, what

1:00:10

exactly happened to him. And Mr.

1:00:12

Weasley is coming up with every

1:00:15

bit of distraction fodder that he

1:00:17

can to try and get them

1:00:19

to change the subject. and ultimately,

1:00:21

Mrs. Weasley shuts it down and

1:00:24

everyone gets kicked out of the

1:00:26

room, to which Fred and George

1:00:28

pull out those extendable ears again,

1:00:31

which, you know, they're a bit

1:00:33

of a blessing and a curse

1:00:35

because unfortunately this time around, Harry

1:00:37

gets to overhear, Maddie, Molly, Arthur,

1:00:40

and Tonks, talking about him very,

1:00:42

very candidly in front. of all

1:00:44

of his friends. And that is

1:00:46

where our chapter ends. Pretty awkward.

1:00:49

Yeah. Again, I find it messed

1:00:51

up that Arthur and Molly aren't

1:00:53

giving at least their children a

1:00:56

fuller picture of what went on.

1:00:58

I think that's messed up. Imagine

1:01:00

if that was our parent and

1:01:02

we didn't really know what happened

1:01:05

to them or why or where

1:01:07

they were. They almost died and

1:01:09

we're not getting answers? All because

1:01:12

we're in, they're in the order

1:01:14

of the Phoenix, greater good, he

1:01:16

was prepared to die. Stop. It's

1:01:18

still the parent. Yeah, I think

1:01:21

we could actually blame that one

1:01:23

on Molly and Arthur because they

1:01:25

would be afforded some level of

1:01:28

discretion to communicate kind of more

1:01:30

circumstances. Like, Dumbler wouldn't be super

1:01:32

happy with them if they did,

1:01:34

but he also wouldn't be like...

1:01:37

No, you couldn't tell your kids.

1:01:39

Don't tell your kids. Yeah, I'm

1:01:41

gonna be the parent now. I'm

1:01:44

barely Harry, Harry's parent and now

1:01:46

I'm gonna be a parent for

1:01:48

the Weasley's. Because Dumbler's all about

1:01:50

like the greater secrecy and stuff,

1:01:53

but you know, Arthur's the one

1:01:55

who firmly chooses to be like,

1:01:57

that's my business, where I was.

1:02:00

Sorry, guys. I'm interested to see.

1:02:02

how the story gets spun though,

1:02:04

because you're talking about the head

1:02:06

of the misuse of Bugle Artifacts

1:02:09

Office being down to the Department

1:02:11

of Mysteries. What exactly was he

1:02:13

up to? And his kids are

1:02:16

smart enough to know that he

1:02:18

was doing something related to the

1:02:20

order and they get pretty close,

1:02:22

but he's, I also just don't

1:02:25

think this is the right environment

1:02:27

for this conversation to be happening

1:02:29

too, because they're in a public

1:02:32

place even though there's only two

1:02:34

other people that are in the

1:02:36

room with them in these beds

1:02:38

near Arthur but you don't know

1:02:41

who's listening I don't know I

1:02:43

just feel like that should have

1:02:45

been like a pull-a-side conversation where

1:02:48

Molly gives a little bit more

1:02:50

information to to the group because

1:02:52

I don't think it's fair that

1:02:54

Harry gets revealed in this way

1:02:57

either. Agreed. I mean, don't they

1:02:59

know about the extendable years at

1:03:01

this point too? It's not a

1:03:04

secret. Can't matter to see what

1:03:06

they're doing? Yeah. So... See? So

1:03:08

I'm saying about serious. You know,

1:03:10

people, they're prying years around. I

1:03:13

did want to just say to

1:03:15

you, I thought it was pretty

1:03:17

rich that mad eye feels entitled

1:03:20

enough to say that they all

1:03:22

know that there's something off about

1:03:24

the potter kid. Oh yeah, because

1:03:26

he's one to talk. Right. Mad

1:03:29

eye moody has this to say

1:03:31

about potter. Takes one. Takes one

1:03:33

to know one. A mad eye,

1:03:36

you could say. And just one

1:03:38

odd and end this week that

1:03:40

I thought was interesting, they're kind

1:03:42

of laying the groundwork in this

1:03:45

chapter for what ends up happening

1:03:47

to Bill, him becoming a werewolf

1:03:49

when he's attacked by Fenrier Grayback

1:03:52

in the next book, because one

1:03:54

of Mr. Weasley's roommates is a

1:03:56

werewolf, and Molly actually shares, she

1:03:58

expresses some nervousness about Mr. Wiesley

1:04:01

sharing a room with a werewolf.

1:04:03

She asked him, is it safe?

1:04:05

And Mr. Wies is like, of

1:04:08

course it's safe. He's he's medicated.

1:04:10

And he's doing the gracious and

1:04:12

good thing by talking to this

1:04:14

person and letting them know and

1:04:17

reassuring them, hey, I know somebody

1:04:19

who finds the condition pretty easy

1:04:21

to manage, stay on top of

1:04:23

it, you're going to be okay.

1:04:26

And I think this just perfectly

1:04:28

establishes that like Mr. Weasley has

1:04:30

the right attitude towards the condition

1:04:33

that his son's about to have

1:04:35

in about a year. So I

1:04:37

thought that was nice. I like

1:04:39

that. Also, it's such a Mr.

1:04:42

Weasley thing, like to just befriend

1:04:44

and try and offer some comfort,

1:04:46

like you're both in, what are

1:04:49

you in there for, you know,

1:04:51

and kind of just try and

1:04:53

cheer up. I also, it's also

1:04:55

a Mr. Weasley thing that he

1:04:58

fails miserably at it. That guy

1:05:00

does not want to hear what

1:05:02

Mr. Weasley has to say. Yeah.

1:05:05

Threatens to bite him. So I

1:05:07

think this chapter does a good

1:05:09

job of making us appreciate that

1:05:11

Mr. He was not murdered. He's

1:05:14

too wholesome to be murdered. Yeah.

1:05:16

Too pure. Like, unlike Hedwig. Oh.

1:05:18

Well, I think we all know

1:05:21

that one of the worst things

1:05:23

Mr. Wiesley could do while he

1:05:25

was guarding the freaking prophecy was

1:05:27

to fall asleep, which is what

1:05:30

we know happens. He kind of

1:05:32

nods off, and that makes him

1:05:34

susceptible to this attack. What is

1:05:37

the worst thing to do on

1:05:39

duty while guarding the prophecy from

1:05:41

our perspective? And we aren't allowed

1:05:43

to pick sleeping because Mr. Wiesley

1:05:46

already did that. So I'm sitting

1:05:48

there in my chair on my

1:05:50

phone, going five letters. Last one

1:05:53

is a C. Merlin's beard! I

1:05:55

was playing wordle, five letters. And

1:05:57

the word is magic. the way

1:05:59

because it ends in a C.

1:06:02

Oh I love the wordle. Oh I love that.

1:06:04

I hope you would get signal

1:06:06

down in the basement of the

1:06:09

Ministry of Magic but yeah I love

1:06:11

that. I would probably be doing what

1:06:13

I'm doing any other day of

1:06:15

the week which is dancing and

1:06:17

singing along to the rise and

1:06:19

fall of a Midwest Princess.

1:06:22

You know I'm gonna keep on

1:06:24

dancing to sub level four, sub

1:06:26

level four. It's kind of chilling.

1:06:28

Say, probably leaning against the

1:06:30

shells, not a good idea.

1:06:33

Yeah, causing some problems. That's

1:06:35

how you destroy all the time

1:06:37

turners. Until curse child, of

1:06:39

course. Until curse child. And then

1:06:42

I picked something that sounded

1:06:44

like a uniquely Arthur thing

1:06:46

to do, if he's sitting

1:06:48

in silence bored and trying

1:06:50

to entertain himself, attempting to

1:06:52

enchant a loud muggle device

1:06:54

like an alarm that ends

1:06:56

up blaring endlessly and being

1:06:58

unable to turn it off.

1:07:00

That's another way to alert

1:07:02

the snake where you are

1:07:04

very, very, very quickly. All

1:07:07

right, well, thanks for playing

1:07:09

along with me on that,

1:07:11

y'all. We also have our

1:07:13

links line, Muggle Castle Centers,

1:07:15

who are members of our

1:07:17

community over at patron.com/Muggle Cast,

1:07:19

have answered this week's question.

1:07:21

And the question is, if

1:07:23

you were a healer at

1:07:25

St. Mungo's, which floor of

1:07:27

the hospital would you want

1:07:29

to work on? And why?

1:07:32

And just as a reminder,

1:07:34

the floors of the hospital

1:07:36

are artifact accidents, creature induced

1:07:38

injuries, magical bugs, potion

1:07:40

and plant poisoning, spell

1:07:42

damage, and visitors to

1:07:44

your room slash hospital

1:07:47

shop. Man, that feels

1:07:49

on brand. It feels like everywhere

1:07:51

you go they have to have

1:07:53

a shop and it's like, is

1:07:55

this necessary? Don't forget to exit

1:07:58

through the gift shop. Yeah.

1:08:00

Basically, sorry for your trauma! So

1:08:02

Rachel said I would be the

1:08:04

handler for all the therapy animals

1:08:07

at St. Mungo's. I'm picturing mini-unachorns,

1:08:09

mooncaves, pygmy puffs, and a mini-comera,

1:08:11

like sirens from the Crescent City

1:08:13

series. There's something involving data and

1:08:15

record-keeping because I'm a nerd. I

1:08:18

love the idea of emotional support

1:08:20

moon calves. Yeah, oh my gosh.

1:08:22

They're definitely one of the cutest

1:08:24

fantastic beasts. Those endear calls, for

1:08:26

sure. So Julianne on the link

1:08:29

sign says I'll be at the

1:08:31

tea room slash shop as far

1:08:33

away from blood as possible. Jennifer.

1:08:35

says I've worked as a labor

1:08:38

and delivery nurse for over 20

1:08:40

years and I've often wondered how

1:08:42

witches had their babies unless they

1:08:44

apronate the baby out of the

1:08:46

mom. They would need a floor

1:08:49

at St. Mungo's for moms and

1:08:51

babies. Of course, that's where I

1:08:53

would want to work. It would

1:08:55

make a sound like, you know,

1:08:57

like in Louise's mansion, right, Michael?

1:09:00

Yeah. Oh, that, I was imagining

1:09:02

like a, like a, like a

1:09:04

vacuum up, never. Like a popping

1:09:06

sound? I'm just imagining like you

1:09:09

cast Episkey and the kid comes

1:09:11

out. That is interesting. There's no

1:09:13

maternity ward listed at St. Mungos.

1:09:15

I guess that means there's a

1:09:17

whole different building. A whole different

1:09:20

hospital. Wizards do, Wizards do home

1:09:22

birth, there's a spell for that,

1:09:24

makes it really easy. You would

1:09:26

think so. We should do a

1:09:29

whole episode on that. It does

1:09:31

feel like a little weird for

1:09:33

a book series that is so

1:09:35

concerned with... With mothers? With mothers

1:09:37

that there is a maternity ward

1:09:40

here. But you know... You just

1:09:42

do. Well when mommy... Sorry. Yeah.

1:09:44

Right. Right. Our next one comes

1:09:46

from Leah. Leah says as a

1:09:48

current grad student in nutrition, future

1:09:51

registered dietician, I'd have to say

1:09:53

I'd be working in the tea

1:09:55

room to provide... super healthy yet

1:09:57

delicious treats and meals from whole

1:10:00

foods and featuring fun magical herbs

1:10:02

and fungi. Think about pulled mushroom

1:10:04

barbecue, colorful pickled veggie slaw, some

1:10:06

raw vegan brownies, golden milk lattes.

1:10:08

I would brighten up the hospital

1:10:11

food for the patients as well

1:10:13

as their visitors and my fellow

1:10:15

hospital staff. It's insane in the

1:10:17

muggle world. I take huge issue

1:10:20

with the prevalence of ultra-processed foods

1:10:22

and hospitals. That is really backwards.

1:10:24

Good point. And thought about that.

1:10:26

Yeah, very good point, Leah. Rosalie

1:10:28

said, I'd be working on the

1:10:31

ground floor in artifact accidents. There

1:10:33

are a lot of hazards, even

1:10:35

with muggle artifacts. I work in

1:10:37

museum collection care, so I can

1:10:39

only imagine the absolute chaos that

1:10:42

cursed exploding and malfunctioning wizzening artifacts

1:10:44

would cause. Yikes! Nicole says the

1:10:46

author left out a crucial part

1:10:48

of the hospital, which would be

1:10:51

the medical records. I would add

1:10:53

this to the fifth floor to

1:10:55

be as far possible from any

1:10:57

cauldron exposure, since without technology they

1:10:59

would definitely have paper records. This

1:11:02

is my job in the Mughal

1:11:04

world. So I would want to

1:11:06

do something similar in the wizarding

1:11:08

world, be health care adjacent without

1:11:10

any bodily fluids. I love that

1:11:13

most, a lot of, a lot

1:11:15

of people who responded are choosing

1:11:17

their real life job. Yeah. That's

1:11:19

like version. Mev wrote in potions

1:11:22

and plant poisoning. I would be

1:11:24

good at making potions. I would

1:11:26

try to stay in the background

1:11:28

not treating people but brewing potions

1:11:30

so other healers can help them.

1:11:33

I would love to think my

1:11:35

potions also could be used to

1:11:37

treat magical creatures as well or

1:11:39

that I brew specifically for the

1:11:42

magical creatures. Oh, I love that.

1:11:44

And last but not least, Zachary

1:11:46

says I would love to set

1:11:48

up shop in the tea room

1:11:50

as some sort of post-traumatic stress.

1:11:53

slash trauma therapists to help be

1:11:55

affected in their families adjust to

1:11:57

their new lives and lifestyle. This

1:11:59

chapter always makes me wish someone

1:12:01

was able or someone was available

1:12:04

to Neville and I've always had

1:12:06

an urge to help those who

1:12:08

need it. I'd also like to

1:12:10

head a department that searches and

1:12:13

experiments for cures for the incurable

1:12:15

using a mixture of muggle science

1:12:17

and wizard magic. I'm sure with

1:12:19

the job would be very successful

1:12:21

and helpful for everyone affected.

1:12:24

Good call. Thanks to everybody who

1:12:26

contributed and you can read more

1:12:28

of the responses at patreon.com/muggocaste. If

1:12:30

you have any feedback about today's

1:12:33

episode you can email or send

1:12:35

a voice memo that you record

1:12:37

on your phone to muggocaste at

1:12:40

gmail.com. Next week we will be discussing

1:12:42

order the Phoenix Chapter 23. Oh look

1:12:44

at this! Ho ho! It's Christmas on

1:12:46

the closed ward! Before we get

1:12:48

to Quizage, check out our other weekly

1:12:50

podcasts, What the Hype and Millennium, for

1:12:53

more pop culture and real world talk.

1:12:55

This week on what the hype Laura

1:12:57

and Micah wrapped up their coverage on

1:12:59

the White Lotus and Eric and Laura

1:13:01

kicked off coverage for the last of

1:13:04

us season two. Then over on millennial

1:13:06

we're crying into our retirement accounts as

1:13:08

we talk tariffs but we're also talking

1:13:10

about some easy ways to make the

1:13:12

most out of your budget right now

1:13:15

and we're also looking at how other

1:13:17

millennials are getting by right now

1:13:19

given the current economic situation. And

1:13:21

now it's time for requisage. This

1:13:27

week's question was what

1:13:30

is the nearest prime

1:13:32

number to number 700? You

1:13:34

guys, it's a quisage first.

1:13:37

The correct answer to this

1:13:39

week's quiz question is

1:13:41

the number of this episode.

1:13:44

Whoa, that's actually

1:13:46

pretty cool. 701 is

1:13:48

the nearest prime number

1:13:50

to 700 and correct answers,

1:13:53

uh, 65% of folks said

1:13:55

that they did not. Look that

1:13:57

up. And correct answers were submitted

1:13:59

by... Linky the house elf Elizabeth

1:14:01

Kay, Fluffer Nutter, hey Micah, you're

1:14:04

so fine, you're so fine, you

1:14:06

blow my mind. First time knowing

1:14:09

the answer, I spent two hours

1:14:11

and 30 minutes calculating this because

1:14:13

I didn't want to look it

1:14:16

up. I have a secret gay

1:14:18

crush on Andrew Madeline. Patrona seeker,

1:14:20

Sarah B, not bad for a

1:14:23

girl that took remedial algebra, Scorpio

1:14:25

Slytherin, the minister of prime, Transfigured

1:14:28

Me into Micah's Mike, a lot

1:14:30

of Micah. Umbridge is missing in

1:14:32

educational decree banning port keys and

1:14:35

will Professor Vector be proud of

1:14:37

me now. Here's next

1:14:39

week's Quizizz question. The

1:14:45

London entrance to St. Mongos

1:14:47

features a mannequin that moves

1:14:49

and articulates. What is the

1:14:51

name given to the ambulatory

1:14:53

mannequins in the first episode

1:14:55

of the 2005 Doctor Who

1:14:57

revival? That episode by the

1:14:59

way is called Rose. Submit

1:15:02

your answer to us on

1:15:04

the Muglecaste website on the

1:15:06

Quisich form located at muglecast.com/Quisich,

1:15:08

if you're already on our

1:15:10

website checking out our amazing

1:15:12

transcripts or our must-listens page,

1:15:14

just click on Quisich from

1:15:16

the main nav. Thanks everyone

1:15:19

for listening to this week's

1:15:21

episode. Don't forget to visit

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patron.com/Muglecaste to support us. Leave

1:15:25

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1:15:31

Thanks everybody for listening, I'm

1:15:33

Andrew. I'm Andrew. I'm Eric.

1:15:35

I'm Micah. And I'm Laura.

1:15:38

Bye everyone. Bye. Bye. Don't

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the lab. Quinton only has

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24 hours to sell his

1:16:43

car. Is that even possible?

1:16:45

He goes to carvana.com. What

1:16:47

is this? A movie trailer? He

1:16:49

ignores the doubters, enters his

1:16:51

license plate. Wow, that's a

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great offer. The car is

1:16:56

sold, but will Carvana pick

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it up in time for? They'll

1:17:00

literally pick it up

1:17:03

tomorrow morning. Done with the

1:17:05

dramatics. Car selling, in record

1:17:07

time. apply.