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1:04

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1:10

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1:12

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1:34

Hi. Everyone! I'm here today and you can probably

1:36

hear me smiling through the microphone because I'm about

1:38

to make a very exciting announcement the last. Few.

1:41

Weeks you been hearing me talk about

1:43

other podcast that we're fans of here.

1:45

A wrongful conviction. And. Anyone

1:48

who knows me knows that. Probably

1:50

my favorite podcast that was

1:52

an alarm A podcast. Was.

1:56

Murder in Oregon. I told everybody

1:58

for years. ever since I first

2:00

heard it the a gonna listen

2:02

to this thing, I benched it.

2:04

It's not he. It's incredible reporting.

2:06

It's an unbelievable story and. The

2:09

woman behind it is the one and

2:11

only Lauren Bread Pacheco and it's been

2:13

my privilege of the last several years

2:16

to get to know her and work

2:18

with her. So today. Why?

2:20

I'm so excited is because

2:22

I'm here to announce that

2:24

Lauren is going to be

2:26

hosting. Wrongful conviction with

2:29

law and by Pacheco. So

2:31

here we go, Get ready

2:33

for some stories coming to

2:35

your car, radio your air

2:37

phones earphones air by well

2:39

as as regards years he

2:41

her workouts. Get. Ready It's

2:43

gonna be amazing And. In.

2:45

Case you were wondering, I'm sitting

2:47

here right now at the in

2:49

fabulous red room at I Hard

2:52

Studios with the fabulous Learn by

2:54

Pacheco Lauren. What's. Up. That

2:57

was quite an introduction. Thank you

2:59

sir! I am so excited for

3:01

this season and A and sell

3:04

Sincerely honored to be joining the

3:06

Lava team and to be doing

3:08

my part and sharing these. Incredible.

3:10

Stories. Yeah, it's

3:13

gonna be amazing. I you know I'm

3:15

so does Getty. And by the way,

3:17

that was all more and take that

3:19

introduction unscripted. So ah, it's from the

3:21

heart here and I heart And so

3:23

you know it, there's I see an

3:26

interesting I think it's an interesting story

3:28

of how we first connected. Or

3:30

because it was a surprise. And I love

3:33

surprises and well, Economically sound like

3:35

a stocker. Because I had already

3:37

retired technically from television, I left

3:39

television I'm recovering television producer to

3:42

start podcasting full time, but I

3:44

got a call about taking a

3:46

suit and the only reason I

3:48

agreed to take the suit was

3:51

because. It. Was an interview

3:53

with you and am I had

3:55

already been such a fan of

3:57

wrongful conviction and I have to.

4:00

How You? It was interesting because I

4:02

had no idea that you are listening

4:04

to Murder in Oregon when our paths

4:06

first crossed. But. Wrongful. Conviction

4:08

so prepared me for

4:11

the reporting and the

4:13

research behind. Murder. In

4:15

Oregon because it really wrap

4:18

my head around the systemic

4:20

issues and corruption and wrongful

4:22

convictions. So I was already

4:25

indebted to wrongful conviction when

4:27

we met. A. While so

4:29

you. I didn't notice for

4:32

the story, so you're already listening

4:34

to wrongful conviction episodes before you

4:36

went unrecorded that sort. Iconic

4:39

series were in Oregon.

4:42

And then when when I met you

4:44

in person I started talking shoe about

4:46

wrongful conviction and then it just I'd

4:49

let it slide that I like I

4:51

kind of podcast to and when you

4:53

asked what I was working on I

4:56

explained i don happy face and that's

4:58

currently murder and or again was out.

5:00

Your whole face lit up and you

5:03

said you loved the podcast and I

5:05

actually wasn't sure you weren't just. Teasing

5:08

me sick? What's that? circuit? Syriac.

5:11

Since was so sincere but

5:13

then that started and I

5:15

her probably won't wanna know

5:17

this but you're a very

5:19

persuasive man and once you

5:21

found out that I could

5:24

get you be episodes a

5:26

little earlier six assistance that

5:28

dates, updates dropped that's that's

5:30

when I. Started getting texts

5:32

is episode seven Ready yet?

5:35

Yeah. Right around with a mouse. I I

5:37

had been listening read I had been. I.

5:39

Pick. I had been to the episodes that

5:42

were available but of course couldn't listen to

5:44

the ones that weren't. Until I Found You

5:46

are you Found Me or with on desserts

5:48

and so yeah I was. There was a.

5:50

Nice plus cause knows that feeling

5:52

of middle aged when you're waiting

5:54

for the next episode of A

5:56

so you really care about it?

5:58

A vested in. And I was,

6:01

because even for people like

6:03

us, who are you know?

6:05

seasoned? Veterans. Of

6:07

this stuff. He. Can still

6:09

be surprised how shows I

6:12

continue. To be surprised by

6:14

this particular case because even

6:16

though Frank Cable has been

6:18

exonerated, the State of Oregon

6:20

is still fighting. The

6:22

even possibility of actually

6:24

compensating him for three

6:27

decades they stole. By.

6:29

Wrongfully conducting him and the

6:31

murder of Michael Frankie remains

6:33

and on. Solved Murder.

6:37

It's not that it's Oregon.

6:39

we're not talking about Mississippi,

6:41

right? Or you know, Alabama,

6:43

Arkansas are states I think

6:46

most people would kill More

6:48

likely associate with this type

6:50

of extreme malfeasance is probably

6:52

too kind of a word,

6:54

but corruption. Coverups.

6:59

Wrongful persecutions and convictions

7:01

and and scandals that

7:04

go. Or. Way

7:06

up the ladder. I mean

7:08

away. It's crazy. It's okay

7:10

if it. If. It

7:12

wasn't true. You couldn't write it because no one

7:14

would believe it. Or you guys there's a line

7:16

and fiction that you don't for that writers on

7:19

cross cause a stir. Somebody always an either comes

7:21

at a a signal folks no one's gonna believe

7:23

that. Scale. Back. He

7:26

can see at once you

7:28

see at and that's the

7:30

interesting thing I think about

7:32

corruption and misconduct and when

7:34

we talk about states that

7:37

have a rotten track record.

7:39

Oregon's not even at the

7:41

top. I would have to

7:43

say that Illinois continues to

7:45

blow my mind in terms

7:48

of I think that Chicago

7:50

is paid out at this

7:52

point well over six hundred

7:54

million dollars to compensate exonerates

7:56

who were wrongfully convicted. And

7:58

that's I think. Heartbreaking

8:01

aspect of what we

8:03

do. That even when

8:05

the school we point to

8:07

someone's innocence. What I like

8:10

to say That. When.

8:12

The system decides that you're guilty,

8:15

you're on a fast track to

8:17

conviction. But when. It

8:19

gets called out for

8:22

making mistakes. It reverses

8:24

like a frozen slug.

8:26

It is just the

8:28

most. Painstakingly.

8:30

Arduous process for the system

8:32

to own up to the

8:35

mistakes has made. Answer reverse

8:37

around for connection. Years.

8:39

Decades on them. We see

8:41

that again and again. And

8:43

that's really what I'm trying

8:45

to touch upon in the

8:47

season that you've so generously

8:50

interested me. West is not.

8:52

To get through a wrongful

8:55

conviction of course, the lawyers

8:57

and the innocence. Project are

8:59

incredibly. Supportive and helpful in

9:01

in trying to reverse those.

9:04

Stock Wheels of Justice. But

9:06

so often there are these

9:09

individual relationships. You know, these

9:11

personal heroes to the wrongfully

9:13

convicted person who show up

9:15

day after day, arm for

9:17

the person in any way

9:19

they can, whether it is

9:22

correspondents or visiting and person

9:24

or being their personal champions

9:26

in terms of trying to

9:28

get their case on the

9:30

radar of innocence projects. And

9:32

so I'm really leaning heavily.

9:35

Into that emotional connection

9:37

between the wrongfully convicted

9:39

person and their support

9:41

person, their personal hero,

9:44

the person who is

9:46

able to turn their

9:48

anger in, their frustration

9:50

and pain in to

9:53

purpose. On. Behalf

9:55

of the wrongfully convicted person and

9:57

we told some incredible stories there.

10:00

There's a woman named Michelle

10:02

Morrison who is actually the

10:04

first woman to have been

10:07

released. Ah, as a direct

10:09

result of the Fulton County

10:11

Conviction Integrity Unit under funny

10:14

Well as her mother has

10:16

this beautiful story that she

10:18

shares. She was so blindsided

10:21

when her daughter was given

10:23

fifty. Five years to life

10:25

sentence as she had to be physically

10:27

carried out of the court room and

10:30

she was so decimated that she said

10:32

that for the first few months tears

10:34

were her food and not. Then she

10:36

turned her pain and to purpose and

10:38

her purpose and to pass. And and

10:40

she's the one who advocated for. Greater

10:44

oversight of sentencing and

10:47

Fulton County and for

10:49

the. Conviction. Integrity Unit.

10:51

And lo and behold, her

10:53

daughter. Has benefited

10:56

directly from having her mother as

10:58

her champion on the outside, refusing

11:00

to take no for an answer.

11:02

The stories are just incredibly. Inspiring.

11:05

And humbling. But it really shows.

11:07

I think the power of empathy.

11:10

To. Take on. The.

11:13

System. Yeah. It's

11:15

incredible and I think the I'm so

11:17

glad we're highlighting of these heroes and

11:20

there's always be mistakes but we could.

11:23

You know we could certainly. Cut.

11:25

The not that the percentage of

11:27

wrongful convictions. Dramatically.

11:29

Just by taking some basic steps

11:32

to ensure that there are some

11:34

accountability at various levels of the

11:36

system, which there isn't. If

11:39

you are more concerned in

11:41

wins for the prosecution than

11:43

you are in justice. There's

11:47

a problem. There. is a huge

11:49

issue and we continue to see

11:51

that again and again and again

11:54

where the objective is not to

11:56

put a guilty person in prison

11:58

it's not real It's

12:01

to put a body in a

12:03

cell because we live, unfortunately, in

12:05

a prison-for-profit world. And

12:07

that ripple effect of wrongful

12:09

convictions is just staggering. And

12:12

that's going back to compassion

12:14

and empathy. It

12:17

is the humanizing of these stories.

12:19

And that's why I believe that

12:21

leaning heavily into the emotional connection

12:24

really has the power to open

12:26

minds. And I

12:29

think that not just

12:31

wrongful convictions, but many things. If

12:33

we look at it with

12:36

empathy, empathy tends to help

12:38

erase us and the them. And

12:40

then it becomes our problem. Wrongful

12:43

convictions are our problems. Our

12:45

problem in that they could happen to

12:47

anybody. And a wonderful

12:50

example of that is Alan Beeman. And

12:52

again, out of Illinois. He

12:55

was arrested right

12:58

after his final exams, his

13:00

senior year at university, for

13:03

the murder of an

13:05

ex-girlfriend because his fingerprints

13:07

were found on the alarm clock

13:09

in her apartment, along with her

13:11

current boyfriend and another guy's. But

13:14

they railroaded this guy. And

13:18

he spent 13

13:20

years in prison, shuffled between

13:22

six different prisons in Illinois.

13:24

I asked him how he

13:26

stayed sane. And

13:29

he quite candidly said, I

13:31

didn't. So even

13:34

the fact that the wrongful conviction happened

13:36

ends up being a life sentence for

13:38

some people. And again, you

13:40

don't see it through that lens. You

13:42

don't understand until you

13:45

humanize these stories and you

13:47

have an emotional connection to

13:49

these individuals. I

13:51

think that's right. And it's why.

13:53

And I'm so humbled by the

13:56

fact that We've

13:58

been credited at the Wrongful

14:00

Conviction Podcast with helping to

14:02

free about twenty five people

14:05

so far Where the individuals

14:07

or other conviction people themselves

14:09

and or their attorneys have

14:12

said that that Our podcast,

14:14

you know, Had shine on

14:16

shop shine a light on. You.

14:19

Don't very necessary light and in an

14:21

otherwise extremely dark place and be super

14:23

just visible. They're just out there in

14:26

prison somewhere in America, like begging to

14:28

be heard and sometimes when you bring

14:30

attention in a recently we are Schofield

14:32

came home as as as a you

14:34

know at least in part as a

14:37

result of the brilliant reporting of Camera

14:39

King on our show and Kelsey Decker

14:41

on our show Bone Valley. And if

14:43

we can raise the level of empathy

14:45

and I think we have, you know

14:48

I. I sleep well. Knowing that

14:50

somewhere in America today

14:52

Kinnock and a jury

14:55

room. There. Are people

14:57

who are you know, serving

14:59

as jurors? You.

15:01

Don't know Billie So on

15:03

a criminal trial. For. Listeners

15:05

of our Pike Ass or your

15:08

Pi Cast right? or one of

15:10

Your Bike As and and they

15:12

are much more likely then their

15:15

fellow jurors to have a healthy

15:17

dose of skepticism and to have

15:19

a more educated. Outlook

15:22

that will allow them to

15:24

any here to the principles.

15:27

That. Are supposed to be bedrock rate

15:30

which is. Which. Are innocent

15:32

until proven guilty. And beyond

15:34

a reasonable doubt. Those things are effectively

15:36

out the window and we prove it

15:38

week after week. And all these shows.

15:41

But. that comes down to something you

15:43

and i have been talking about

15:45

for years and it's the concept

15:47

as creating content that actually moves

15:50

people and move them ended the

15:52

direction of wanting to make a

15:54

difference that audio activism for lack

15:56

of a better way of explaining

15:58

it bad Even from

16:00

the guest episodes that I did

16:03

for you on wrongful conviction,

16:05

I've received DMs

16:09

of people saying, how can I help? What

16:11

can I do? Who

16:13

should I write? And that is

16:17

incredible to have

16:20

people's minds opened by

16:23

what's going through their ears to the point where

16:25

they want to make a difference. It

16:27

gives me unbridled

16:31

joy when I'm

16:33

approached, which happens time to time

16:35

by someone who says I

16:39

was working at a regular job

16:42

and was listening to your podcast on my

16:44

drive to work every day and my drive

16:47

home, and now I'm in law

16:49

school. I'm going to become a criminal defense lawyer

16:51

or I had somebody who told me now I'm

16:53

working at the Idaho Innocence Project or

16:56

they find other ways to become activated.

17:01

We need regular

17:04

people, students, people

17:07

from all walks of life to

17:09

get involved, and especially in cases

17:12

and everyone who's listening is a

17:14

potential jury member someday. Bear

17:17

in mind, the smaller the

17:19

community and the larger the

17:21

case, the more publicized the

17:24

case is, the more likely it is that there's

17:26

going to be downward pressure

17:30

on those people, those government actors,

17:32

whatever you want to call them. To get it

17:34

done. To get it done. And so you got

17:36

to go in

17:38

there and remember that

17:41

person who's sitting in that defendant's chair

17:44

has, again, those basic rights,

17:46

innocent until proven guilty and must be

17:48

proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And

17:50

also that person is somebody's mom

17:53

or brother or son or daughter,

17:55

whatever they might

17:57

be. are

18:00

just like you. I do have

18:02

tremendous hope for the future, and I

18:04

have tremendous respect for the people who

18:06

are fighting the good fight, but also

18:08

fighting for their loved ones. And that's

18:10

what I really hope to highlight in

18:12

this season. You know, we're

18:15

over 450 episodes into wrongful

18:17

conviction. And some

18:19

of the episodes that, you

18:22

know, actually knocked me out of my

18:24

chair are the

18:26

ones that feature heroes who

18:31

are not the attorneys themselves, who

18:34

deserve all the credit that they,

18:37

you know, can possibly get, not

18:39

the Innocence Projects, who again do

18:41

incredible tireless work

18:44

for not a lot of money on

18:46

behalf of their clients, but the family members of

18:49

people, loved ones, who

18:52

have stood

18:55

strong and, you

18:57

know, never let up in the face of

18:59

incredible hardships and overwhelming odds,

19:02

and can

19:05

never forget the Chris Tapp case,

19:07

where the mother of the victim,

19:10

Carol Dodge, she

19:12

was so driven to

19:15

free this man who she learned. She

19:17

thought he was guilty. She

19:19

wanted him to rot in hell or burn in hell,

19:22

but she learned, she

19:24

studied the case, and she learned that he was

19:26

innocent. And she wanted justice

19:28

for him and for her daughter. And

19:31

so she was, she was

19:34

like, she was such an ever, let

19:39

me just say this, she went to

19:41

the police station almost

19:43

every day, demanding that they look

19:45

into this case to the point that they

19:47

put in a new door. They called it

19:50

the Carol door, they called it, just to

19:52

keep, because she was not

19:54

going to stop until they did their damn

19:56

jobs. But how

19:58

heroic, honestly, that. That is

20:00

the definition of a hero to

20:02

me. And I think that it's

20:05

the people who are showing up and

20:08

demanding that the right thing be done.

20:10

In her case, for somebody who isn't

20:12

even a family member,

20:14

somebody who was wrongfully convicted

20:19

of killing her family member,

20:21

that's just incredible. But

20:24

time and time again, these

20:26

are the unsung heroes. These are

20:28

the people who actually make it

20:31

possible for the person to not

20:33

only physically get out

20:35

of prison after having been

20:37

wrongfully convicted, but to get through the ordeal

20:40

of spending

20:42

the time in prison. I spoke

20:44

to Betty Benitez, whose son Frank

20:47

was wrongfully convicted, and spent,

20:50

I believe, three decades nearly

20:52

in prison. She

20:56

said that he would call

20:58

her and, as he put it, just

21:00

say, I can't do this anymore. And

21:03

she would say, if you say

21:05

that, I'm going

21:07

to come and knock sense into you. In

21:09

other words, she wouldn't take no for an

21:12

answer. She wouldn't let him give up. And

21:14

he credits her for the fact that he's

21:17

here today, that he survived

21:19

it. And she's his

21:21

hero. You know,

21:23

Lauren, these are unlikely heroes. And

21:27

they're heroes who never wanted to be

21:30

heroes, but they stepped up. They turned

21:32

their misery into movement,

21:34

right? And I'm so glad

21:36

that we're highlighting them, because

21:39

this series of heroes

21:43

inside of this very dark

21:46

world of wrongful conviction, very dark

21:48

world of wrongful convictions, it

21:51

might just fuck around and give me hope, you know?

21:55

It's certainly done that for me. And I can't wait

21:57

to share these stories. The podcast.

22:00

past is going to come out, do we

22:02

call it drop? What is the lingo? On

22:04

the 27th of May, and I

22:08

am just so honored

22:10

to be a part of it and so amazed

22:13

by the stories that I get to

22:15

tell on this. So thank you so

22:17

much for giving me this opportunity, and

22:20

hopefully we can change minds and as

22:22

cheesy as it sounds, open hearts, so

22:25

that people are motivated to make a difference, because

22:27

we all can. In

22:29

episodes of wrongful conviction with Lauren

22:31

Bright Pacheco and some of our

22:34

heroes in the wrongful conviction feed. From

22:37

BBC Radio 4, Britain's biggest

22:40

paranormal podcast is

22:42

going on a road trip. I

22:44

thought in that moment, oh

22:47

my God, you've summoned something from this bull.

22:53

This is uncanny U.S.A. He

22:55

says, somebody's in the house and I

22:57

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