0:06

This is Crime House. We've

0:08

all held a grudge at

0:10

one point or another. Whether

0:12

it's a minor spat or

0:15

a years-long feud, sometimes

0:18

it's just hard to let

0:20

things go. Most of the

0:22

time the people involved

0:24

can find a way to

0:26

avoid one another, or at

0:28

least be civil when they

0:31

have to interact. But

0:33

not everyone is willing

0:35

to put their differences

0:37

aside and move on. And occasionally,

0:40

even the pettiest

0:43

disagreements can snowball

0:45

into something awful. In

0:47

1983, a lasting grudge

0:49

between 27-year-old Jerry Lynn

0:52

Dean and 23-year-old Carla

0:54

Faye Tucker reached a

0:56

chilling conclusion. Instead of

0:59

talking things through... Jerry and

1:01

Carla turned to

1:03

violence to solve their

1:06

problems. By the time

1:08

the dust settled, one

1:10

of the most savage

1:12

murders in Texas

1:15

history had been

1:17

committed. People's lives are

1:19

like a story. There's

1:22

a beginning, a middle,

1:24

and an end. But you

1:26

don't always know which part

1:28

you're on. Sometimes the final

1:30

chapter arrives far too soon

1:32

and we don't always get

1:34

to know the real ending.

1:36

I'm Carter Roy and this

1:38

is murder true crime stories,

1:40

a crime house original. Every

1:42

Tuesday I'll explore the story

1:44

of a notorious murder or

1:46

murders. I'll be bringing awareness

1:48

to stories that need to

1:50

be heard, with a focus

1:53

on those who are impacted. And

1:55

for more, true crime stories that

1:57

all happened this week in history,

1:59

Check out Crime House, the

2:02

show. Each episode covers multiple

2:04

cases unified by the same

2:06

theme, so every week you

2:09

get something a little different.

2:11

At Crime House, we want

2:13

to express our gratitude to

2:16

you, our community, for making

2:18

this possible. Please support us

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you get your podcasts. Your

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feedback truly matters. And for

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ad-free and early access to

2:32

murder true crime stories, plus

2:34

exciting Crime House bonus content,

2:37

subscribe to Crime House Plus

2:39

on Apple podcasts. This is

2:41

the first of two episodes

2:43

on the murders of 27-year-old

2:46

Jerry Lindeine and 32-year-old Deborah

2:48

Thornton, who were killed in

2:50

1983 after a one-night stand.

2:53

Today, I'll introduce you to

2:55

Jerry and Deborah. and explain

2:57

how their unplanned fling turned

3:00

into a savage double murder.

3:02

I'll discuss the initial investigation

3:04

and explain how detectives followed

3:07

a trail of violence all

3:09

the way to a likely

3:11

suspect. Next time, I'll take

3:14

you along as detectives narrow

3:16

in on someone with a

3:18

vendetta against Jerry and discuss

3:21

a spiritual transformation on death

3:23

row that shocked the nation.

3:25

All that and more coming

3:28

up. I've got some exciting

3:30

news. Crime House Studios is

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DSW. From

8:00

the moment they met, Jerry hated

8:03

Carla. And she felt the same

8:05

way about him. Apparently, Carla didn't

8:08

think Jerry deserved to be with

8:10

her best friend. In her eyes,

8:12

he was a spineless nobody. But

8:15

Jerry thought Carla was the one

8:17

who was pathetic. Soon, Jerry and

8:20

Carla were at each other's throats,

8:22

tossing around insults and looking

8:24

to stir the pot. And Jerry

8:26

knew exactly how to push Carla's

8:29

buttons. One day in 1981 or

8:31

1982, he decided to fix up

8:34

his beloved Harley Davidson in the

8:36

middle of Carla and Sean's living

8:38

room. Carla came home from work

8:41

to find the place littered with

8:43

bike parts and repair equipment. She

8:46

watched in horror as oil leeked

8:48

onto the carpet. After that... She

8:50

chased Jerry out of the apartment.

8:53

But Jerry's little stunt wasn't enough

8:55

for Sean to consider leaving him.

8:58

Their relationship was undeniably toxic, and

9:00

whenever Jerry acted out, Sean only

9:02

looked for ways to appease him.

9:05

And by 1983, she was ready

9:07

to show Jerry he was the

9:10

most important person in her

9:12

life. That February... Sean and 27-year-old

9:14

Jerry got married. But even tying

9:16

the knots wasn't enough to quell

9:19

Jerry's anger. If Jerry thought getting

9:21

hitched meant he wouldn't have to

9:24

see Carla anymore, he was sorely

9:26

mistaken. Although he and Sean were

9:28

married, it seems like Sean continued

9:31

living with Carla, which meant it

9:33

just wasn't possible for Jerry to

9:36

avoid her altogether. And soon the

9:38

tension between him and Carla trickled

9:40

into his marriage with Sean on.

9:43

Especially when she and Carla decided

9:45

to go follow their favorite rock

9:48

bands around the country, leaving Jerry

9:50

alone. In Jerry's mind, Sean wasn't

9:52

the ringleader of these adventures. Carla

9:55

was. And she wanted to

9:57

steal Sean away from him. Jerry

9:59

continued to stew on it, and

10:02

eventually he came to a decision.

10:04

It was time to teach Carla.

10:06

a lesson. Jerry wanted to hit

10:09

Carla where it hurt. One way

10:11

to do that was to destroy

10:14

her memories. One day that spring,

10:16

Jerry went over to Sean in

10:18

Carla's place and found Carla's photo

10:21

collection. He took a knife and

10:23

scratched out the images, including a

10:26

photo of Carla and her dead

10:28

mother. supposedly the only one she

10:30

had of them together. It devastated

10:33

Carla. But she wasn't ready to

10:35

fight back just yet, because it

10:38

seemed like Jerry might not be

10:40

in her life for that much

10:42

longer. Every so often, Sean

10:45

would come to Carla after a

10:47

fight with Jerry and say she

10:49

was finally going to leave him.

10:52

Only she never did. It was

10:54

a vicious cycle that always ended

10:57

with Sean going back to Jerry.

10:59

But one afternoon that May, not

11:01

long after Jerry destroyed Carla's pictures,

11:04

something snapped inside Sean. That month,

11:06

after another fight, Sean stole Jerry's

11:09

debit card and went on a

11:11

shopping spree with Carla. When Jerry

11:13

realized Sean had spent $460 of

11:16

his money, he was livid. He

11:18

flew off the handle and hit

11:21

Sean. taking her nose and busting

11:23

her lip. It was the final

11:25

straw for her. After only five

11:28

months of marriage, she'd had

11:30

enough of Jerry. She left him.

11:32

This time, for good. As for

11:35

Jerry, well, he thought Carla convinced

11:37

Sean to take his debit card

11:39

and go shopping, which meant she

11:42

was the real reason behind his

11:44

split from Sean. And he wasn't

11:47

about to let her get away

11:49

with it. Soon Jerry came up

11:51

with a plan. And this time,

11:54

he did want to hurt her.

11:56

Whatever it took to make Carla

11:59

think twice about messing with Jerry

12:01

Lynn Dean again. His idea was

12:03

to have someone shoot a flare

12:06

gun into Carla's face. This way...

12:08

She'd have to live the rest

12:11

of her life with a scarred

12:13

and disfigured face. Rumors began to

12:15

circulate through the biker community

12:17

that some people were thinking about

12:20

doing it for him. Still, tensions

12:22

between the trio continued to rise.

12:25

By June, they were all looking

12:27

to take the edge off through

12:29

drugs and alcohol. And no one

12:32

needed to blow off steam more

12:34

than Sean. who was still struggling

12:37

to put her rocky marriage behind

12:39

her. And Carla knew just how

12:41

to get Sean's mind off of

12:44

Jerry. On the weekend of June

12:46

11, 1983, Carla hosted a birthday

12:49

party, presumably at their house for

12:51

her sister, Kerry. But this wasn't

12:53

just a small get-together. It was

12:56

a three-day bender. And they weren't

12:58

the only ones letting their hair

13:01

down that weekend. Jerry went

13:03

to a party of his own.

13:05

Drunk and looking to forget about

13:07

Sean, he met a married woman

13:10

looking for... a little fun. But

13:12

what started out as a way

13:15

to drown out his problems quickly

13:17

turned into something much more dangerous.

13:19

All right, let's take a step

13:22

back for a second because today

13:24

I've got something a little different

13:27

to share with you. Now, look,

13:29

I know true crime can be

13:31

intense, dark, and pretty heavy, and...

13:34

trust me. I can binge these

13:36

stories as much as you can.

13:39

So sometimes you just need something

13:41

to balance things out to help

13:43

clear your mind. And with that

13:46

in mind, I've invited someone into

13:48

the studio today, Gemma Spag,

13:50

host of the new Open Mind

13:53

podcast mantra. Hey Gemma, how you

13:55

doing? Hey, Todd, I'm doing well.

13:57

How are you? I'm good. Thanks.

14:00

Thanks for being here. Can you

14:02

tell us a little about your

14:05

show and for any murder true

14:07

crime story listeners who haven't tuned

14:09

in yet what they might expect

14:12

from mantra? Of course. I think

14:14

that mantra and murder true crime

14:17

stories are actually the unlikely match

14:19

made in heaven. Okay. Like if

14:21

you're going to listen to a

14:24

lot of true crime, you've got

14:26

to get something again to balance

14:29

you out. So essentially, mantra is

14:31

a weekly podcast where I share

14:33

a powerful phrase to kind

14:35

of ground you. and bring you

14:38

through the week. So whether it

14:40

is I cultivate peace within, I

14:43

create space for my inner child

14:45

to feel loved, I make the

14:47

best decisions with what I know

14:50

now. We have so many. And

14:52

with that mantra, we explore the

14:55

wisdom behind it, the reflections, personal

14:57

stories, and also practical insights so

14:59

that you can feel more. intentional

15:02

throughout the week, more connected to

15:04

yourself, no matter what's going on

15:07

in your lives, no matter what

15:09

you're listening to, no matter what

15:11

you're absorbing, you can come back

15:14

to mantra and feel a sense

15:16

of peace. Totally. And for listeners

15:19

out there, one of the things

15:21

I love about mantra is

15:23

like, I'm pretty attention all over

15:25

the place and... And so sometimes

15:28

I need an anchor and one

15:30

of the things I love about

15:33

mantra is it's not just the

15:35

same mantra. Like I might have

15:37

somebody teach me something about being

15:40

grounded, but then I get bored

15:42

with that and then I wander

15:45

off and with mantra when I

15:47

listen, it's like, oh yeah, it's

15:49

always something new. So I'm both

15:52

coming back into myself but also

15:54

exploring something new, which keeps my

15:57

intention. And I think you're right,

15:59

it's such a great match for

16:01

murder true crime stuff because. you

16:04

know I've done a lot of

16:06

murder podcasts and one of the

16:09

things you kind of see is

16:11

obviously these are people who have

16:13

spun out in really dark ways

16:16

but it kind of helps me

16:18

recognize like oh we're all capable

16:21

of spinning out and where can

16:23

I put the brakes on that

16:25

in my life and given the

16:28

pace of the modern world I

16:30

can't get enough. Oh, absolutely. And

16:33

honestly, I don't share this all

16:35

the time, but most of the

16:37

time, the mantras I end up

16:40

choosing are just reminders that I

16:42

need for myself to like stay

16:45

mentally stable and grounded because life

16:47

can be really messy and overwhelming.

16:49

And I think people don't always

16:52

want to hear from a self-help

16:54

guru who's like going to

16:56

claim to have it all together.

16:59

So we definitely don't do any

17:01

of that over there. It's very

17:03

vulnerable, but it's also something very

17:06

simple and practical to lean on

17:08

that hopefully makes a big difference.

17:11

Oh, fantastic. Yes, well thank you

17:13

for stopping by and sharing mantra

17:15

with our listeners today. It's been

17:18

great talking with you. And for

17:20

everyone listening, make sure you stick

17:23

around until the end of the

17:25

episode. We've got a special clip

17:27

from mantra. Ryan Reynolds here for

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mintmobile.com. Hey everyone, it's Carter with

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an exciting update. Crimehouse Studios. is

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launching a new original show called

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Killer Minds. Hosted by licensed forensic

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psychologist Dr. Tristan Engles and Crime

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House's Vanessa Richardson. Each episode of

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Killer Minds features a deep dive

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into the psychology of a notorious

18:25

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New episodes drop every Monday and

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I don't know if you

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Mobile today. I'm told it's super

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today. I'm told it's super easy

19:25

to do at mintmobile.com. Throughout the first half

19:27

of 1983, 27-year-old mechanic and

19:29

biker Jerry Lindeane was in

19:32

a tumultuous and abusive relationship

19:34

with his wife Sean. Things

19:37

continued to unravel and in

19:39

early June, Sean broke things

19:41

off with Jerry after he

19:44

left her battered and bruised.

19:46

They didn't officially get divorced,

19:49

but they definitely weren't together

19:51

anymore. And it wasn't long

19:53

before they were both looking

19:56

to forget about their toxic

19:58

relationship and cut loose. Sean

20:01

headed to a part. with

20:03

her roommate and best friend,

20:05

23-year-old, Carla Faye Tucker. Meanwhile,

20:08

Jerry attended a different party

20:10

that same day, June 12.

20:13

As he made his way

20:15

through the crowd, Jerry spotted

20:18

a gorgeous blonde woman. He

20:20

approached her and introduced himself.

20:22

He learned her name was

20:25

Deborah Ruth Thornton. 32-year-old Deborah

20:27

wasn't a Texas native. She

20:30

was born in Columbus, Ohio,

20:32

in May 1951, to parents

20:34

William Gerald List and Harriet

20:37

Bailey. And sadly, Deborah's childhood

20:39

was anything but happy. In

20:42

1959, when she was eight,

20:44

William was convicted of molesting

20:46

several young boys. With William

20:49

behind bars, for something so

20:51

awful. Harriet decided to divorce

20:54

him. Before long, she met

20:56

and fell in love with

20:59

a Korean war vet named

21:01

Homer Carlson. Homer seemed like

21:03

a pretty good father figure

21:06

and adopted Deborah and her

21:08

brother as his own. She

21:11

even took his last name.

21:13

But the world was a

21:15

cruel place. Deborah only enjoyed

21:18

a few years of stability

21:20

before her mother passed away

21:23

in 1963. Deborah was 12.

21:25

For a little while she

21:27

remained in her adoptive father's

21:30

care. But soon, she got

21:32

curious about her biological dad,

21:35

William. By then, he was

21:37

paroled and had moved to

21:40

the Houston area. It's not

21:42

clear who reached out first,

21:44

but eventually, Deborah reconnected with

21:47

William. She was pleasantly surprised

21:49

to learn he'd really turned

21:52

his life around. After

21:55

landing in Houston, William had

21:57

created a successful trailer manual.

21:59

company. It was doing so

22:01

well, William was making millions.

22:03

He used the money to

22:06

build himself a huge mansion.

22:08

When Deborah found out how

22:10

William was living, she told

22:12

her brother Ron. After thinking

22:14

it over, they decided to

22:17

follow their dad to Houston.

22:19

And he seemed pretty receptive

22:21

to being reunited with his

22:23

children. Before long... Deborah and

22:25

Ron were both working for

22:28

William and carving out their

22:30

own lives in the city.

22:32

Deborah started to make friends

22:34

and meet people. Soon she

22:36

was dating a man named

22:39

Lewis Davis III. In 1970,

22:41

when she was 18, they

22:43

got married and had a

22:45

son together. But just when

22:47

it seemed like things were

22:49

looking up for Deborah, her

22:52

family's past came back to

22:54

haunt her. Rumor

22:56

swirled about her father. People

22:59

around town whispered that William

23:01

was picking up teenage boys

23:03

and taking them back to

23:06

his mansion to sexually abuse

23:08

them. It's not clear if

23:10

there was any truth to

23:13

these allegations, but the thought

23:15

alone was upsetting enough for

23:17

Deborah and Ron to cut

23:19

William out of their lives

23:22

again. Sadly, life didn't get

23:24

any easier for Deborah after

23:26

that. The rest of the

23:29

1970s ebbed and flowed. Although

23:31

she was able to find

23:33

work as a bookkeeper for

23:36

a mortgage company, her personal

23:38

life was going up in

23:40

flames. Sometime in the late

23:43

1970s, she and Lewis divorced.

23:45

However, Deborah wasn't on her

23:47

own for long before she

23:50

met someone else. In May

23:52

1981, 30-year-old Deborah married a

23:54

man named Richard Thornton. But

23:57

it wasn't the healthiest relationship.

23:59

Richard and Deborah. but were

24:01

constantly fighting. And in the

24:04

summer of 1983, things got

24:06

especially heated. On June 12th,

24:08

they had an explosive argument,

24:11

and Richard asked Deborah to

24:13

leave for the day. She

24:15

agreed to go. But Deborah

24:18

wasn't one to sit around

24:20

and mope. If Richard wanted

24:22

her out, well, she'd just

24:25

go ahead and have fun

24:27

without him. It's not

24:29

clear who was hosting the

24:32

party or how Deborah knew

24:34

them, but somehow she ended

24:36

up at the same cool

24:38

party as 27-year-old Jerry Lynn

24:41

Dean. Jerry and Deborah clicked

24:43

instantly. They flirted throughout the

24:45

afternoon and into the evening.

24:47

We don't know what they

24:50

talked about exactly. Maybe they

24:52

aired out their frustrations about

24:54

their partners, or maybe they

24:56

kept the conversation light. Whatever

24:59

they bonded over, the sparks

25:01

between them were definitely flying.

25:03

As people trickled out and

25:05

the party came to an

25:08

end, Jerry asked Deborah if

25:10

she wanted to come back

25:12

to his place. She said

25:14

yes. Neither of them had

25:17

any idea what the night

25:19

had in store. The

25:23

following morning, June 13th, was

25:25

a Monday, and Jerry had

25:28

an early shift. Usually, he

25:30

gave his friend and co-worker,

25:32

26-year-old Gregory Scott Travers, a

25:35

ride to work. That day,

25:37

Gregory waited in front of

25:40

his house for Jerry to

25:42

show up. But by 6.40am,

25:44

Jerry wasn't there. Which was

25:47

unusual. Jerry knew they had

25:49

to be at work by

25:51

7. and he was normally

25:54

on time. But by 650,

25:56

Jerry was still nowhere to

25:59

be found and Gregory was

26:01

getting nervous. Jerry's place was

26:03

just a two-minute walk away,

26:06

so Gregory decided to go

26:08

over there and check on

26:10

his friend. As soon as

26:13

he approached Jerry's apartment building,

26:15

Gregory could tell something was

26:18

wrong. Jerry's Chevy El Camino

26:20

was usually parked out front,

26:22

but today it seemed to

26:25

be missing. It was strange,

26:27

but Gregory assumed Jerry had

26:30

a simple explanation. He continued

26:32

on into the building and

26:34

knocked on Jerry's front door.

26:37

Oddly enough, it creaked open.

26:39

It had been left unlocked.

26:41

Gregory slowly stepped inside and

26:44

called out to Jerry over

26:46

the blaring rock and roll

26:49

music that was playing on

26:51

the radio. He got no

26:53

response. As he made his

26:56

way into the living room,

26:58

Gregory noticed Jerry's Harley Davidson

27:00

was also missing. The last

27:03

time he'd been here, various

27:05

parts had been scattered around

27:08

the room. Now, all Gregory

27:10

saw was an empty wooden

27:12

stand where the bike used

27:15

to be. Again, it was

27:17

odd. But surely Jerry had

27:20

a reason for moving the

27:22

bike. If only Gregory could

27:24

talk to Jerry and find

27:27

out what was going on?

27:29

He continued on, shouting Jerry's

27:31

name over and over as

27:34

he walked to the main

27:36

bedroom. Gregory peeked inside, but

27:39

again, it was empty. Next,

27:41

Gregory tried the spare bedroom,

27:43

and that's when he let

27:46

out, a sigh of relief.

27:48

Jerry was in bed, sleeping.

27:50

But the closer Gregory looked,

27:53

the more confused he became.

27:55

Instead of lying with his

27:58

head on the pillow, Jerry

28:00

was turned around with

28:03

his upper body dangling

28:05

over the foot of the

28:07

bed. And that wasn't

28:09

the only strange thing

28:11

about him. When Gregory

28:14

got a better look, he

28:16

saw Jerry was covered

28:18

in blood. He wasn't moving.

28:20

And he wasn't alone.

28:23

Lying next to Jerry

28:25

was a woman Gregory

28:27

had never seen before.

28:29

He'd learned she was Deborah

28:32

Ruth Thornton. Gregory's eyes

28:34

went wide with horror as

28:37

he took in her lifeless

28:39

body and the strange

28:41

object sticking out of

28:44

her chest. That's when

28:46

Gregory realized it was

28:48

a pickaxe, lodged directly

28:51

into her heart. This

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30:36

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30:38

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full story until now go to

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American criminal.com or search for

31:00

and follow American criminal wherever

31:02

you get your podcasts At

31:10

around 7 a.m. on June

31:13

13, 1983, Gregory Scott Travers

31:15

made a horrific discovery. His

31:18

friend and co-worker, 27-year-old Jerry

31:20

Lindein, had been brutally murdered

31:23

alongside 32-year-old Deborah Ruth Thornton.

31:25

After the horror subsided, Gregory

31:27

ran back to his apartment

31:30

and called the police. Houston

31:32

law enforcement rushed to Jerry's

31:35

apartment, rushed to Jerry's apartment.

31:37

Like Gregory, they were shocked

31:40

by the bloodbath in his

31:42

spare bedroom. But something else

31:45

stuck out to them. Jerry's

31:47

apartment was a total mess.

31:49

Police couldn't figure out if

31:52

this was always how Jerry

31:54

lived, or if whoever had

31:57

killed him and Deborah had

31:59

ransacked the... place. Beyond that,

32:02

the only thing they knew

32:04

for certain was what had

32:07

killed them. The pickaxe was

32:09

removed from Deborah's body and

32:12

placed aside as evidence. Then

32:14

she and Jerry were transported

32:16

to the corner for autopsy.

32:19

As detective searched the crime

32:21

scene for more evidence, they

32:24

started thinking maybe this was

32:26

a robbery gone wrong. Besides

32:29

the state of the apartment,

32:31

Jerry and Deborah's wallets were

32:34

nowhere to be found. Plus,

32:36

Gregory had explained that both

32:38

Jerry's car and motorcycle were

32:41

missing. Officers wondered if one

32:43

or maybe two people had

32:46

barged inside to rob Jerry.

32:48

Then when Jerry realized what

32:51

they were doing, he tried

32:53

to fight back, and he

32:56

and Deborah were killed in

32:58

the process. But the more

33:00

detectives looked around, the less

33:03

certain they were. Given how

33:05

brutal the murders were, this

33:08

seemed more personal than a

33:10

simple burglary, and the autopsy

33:13

report only furthered those suspicions.

33:15

Along with blunt force trauma

33:18

to the head, Jerry had

33:20

been stabbed a staggering 28

33:23

times. Deborah also had trauma

33:25

to the head and several

33:27

puncture wounds. It's possible she

33:30

was already dead when she

33:32

was struck with the pickaxe.

33:35

Clearly, this was a case

33:37

of overkill. To investigators, it

33:40

seemed like the murderer was

33:42

trying to send a message.

33:45

The only question was... What

33:47

were they trying to say?

33:52

Over the next few days,

33:54

detectives continued to scour the

33:57

crime scene for evidence. But

33:59

nothing they... found led them

34:02

any closer to a suspect

34:04

or suspects, which meant it

34:06

was time to look at

34:09

the victim's personal lives. They

34:11

decided to start with Deborah's

34:13

husband, 33-year-old Richard Thornton. Detectives

34:16

theorized that when Richard found

34:18

out Deborah was cheating on

34:21

him, he flew into a

34:23

blind rage, killing Deborah and

34:25

Jerry. But when they brought

34:28

Richard into the station for

34:30

questioning. He was an open

34:33

book. He admitted that he

34:35

and Deborah were having their

34:37

ups and downs and that

34:40

they'd gotten into a bad

34:42

fight right before Deborah went

34:44

to the pool party. He

34:47

said he had no idea

34:49

who Jerry was or that

34:52

Deborah had even been unfaithful.

34:54

As for where he was

34:56

on the night of June

34:59

12th, Richard told detectives he

35:01

was at home with their

35:04

kids. His daughter and Deborah's

35:06

son from her investigators dug

35:08

into his story and confirmed

35:11

his alibi. With that, Richard

35:13

was eliminated as a suspect.

35:15

But while Richard may not

35:18

have been a jealous husband,

35:20

there was someone else in

35:23

Deborah's life with a questionable

35:25

past, her estranged father William

35:27

List. detectives looked into William

35:30

and learned he was a

35:32

registered sex offender. More than

35:35

that, they found out he

35:37

was in hot water for

35:39

another crime. He was currently

35:42

being investigated by the IRS

35:44

for tax evasion, and his

35:46

daughter Deborah was supposed to

35:49

testify against him. To detectives,

35:51

it was a clear motive

35:54

for William to have killed

35:56

Deborah. Maybe he didn't actually

35:58

murder her, but he was

36:01

certainly rich enough to hire

36:03

someone to do it for

36:06

him. William was brought in

36:08

for questioning and denied having

36:10

any involvement in Deborah and

36:13

Jerry's murders. But considering the

36:15

situation, detectives weren't ready to

36:17

cross William's name off the

36:20

suspects list. So for the

36:22

next several weeks, they kept

36:25

tabs on him. Of course,

36:27

they weren't only looking into

36:29

Deborah's history. Detectives knew the

36:32

killer or killers. could have

36:34

been someone Jerry knew. After

36:37

all, Jerry was involved with

36:39

the Houston motorcycle scene. Maybe

36:41

he got into a fight

36:44

with another biker. That would

36:46

explain why his Harley was

36:48

missing. But as detectives began

36:51

questioning Jerry's friends and associates,

36:53

they noticed a common thread.

36:56

Everyone they spoke to said

36:58

Jerry did have one enemy.

37:00

And it wasn't a fellow

37:03

biker. It was his ex-wife's

37:05

best friend, 23-year-old Carla Faye

37:08

Tucker. With each passing day,

37:10

Carla's name continued to pop

37:12

up, and always in the

37:15

same context, that she and

37:17

Jerry hated each other. Police

37:19

learned about all the bad

37:22

blood between them. From the

37:24

oil stains Jerry left on

37:27

her carpet to the scratched-out

37:29

photographs. They also found out

37:31

that once, Carla had even

37:34

punched Jerry in the face

37:36

and broken his glasses. It

37:39

was so bad, Jerry had

37:41

to go to the hospital

37:43

to get shards removed from

37:46

his eye. As the evidence

37:48

against Carla continued to pile

37:50

up, investigators couldn't deny it.

37:53

She wasn't above hurting Jerry.

37:55

But now the question was,

37:58

could she be capable? of

38:01

murder. Thanks so much for

38:03

listening. I'm Carter Roy and

38:05

this is Murder, True Crime

38:07

Stories. Come back next week

38:09

for part two of our

38:11

series on Jerry Lynn Dean

38:13

and Deborah Ruth Thornton. Murder

38:15

True Crime Stories is a

38:17

crime house original powered by

38:19

paved studios. Here at Crime

38:21

House, we want to thank

38:23

each and every one of

38:25

you for your support. If

38:27

you like what you heard

38:29

today, reach out on social

38:31

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38:33

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38:35

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38:37

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38:41

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38:43

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38:55

Murder True Crime Stories is

38:57

hosted by me, Carter Roy,

38:59

and is a Crime House

39:01

original powered by Pave Studios.

39:03

This episode was brought to

39:05

life by the Murder True

39:07

Crime Stories Team, Max Cutler,

39:09

Ron Shapiro, Alex Benadon, Natalie

39:11

Pertzofsky, Lori Marinelli, Sarah Camp,

39:13

Joe Guerra, Beth Johnson, and

39:15

Russell Nash. Thank you for

39:17

listening. And now we've got

39:19

a clip from mantra with

39:21

a Jemma Spag. If you

39:23

want to hear the full

39:25

episode, and trust me, you

39:27

do, just search for mantra

39:29

that's M-A-N-A-N-N-A-N-N- T-R-A, wherever you

39:31

get your podcasts. Let's get

39:33

into today's mantra. Today we're

39:35

talking all about releasing the

39:37

need to do it all.

39:39

This mantra has been an

39:41

important one for me. For

39:43

a while I would say

39:45

for at least the past

39:47

two years a very similar

39:49

mantra I often repeat to

39:51

myself is I can do

39:53

it all eventually just not

39:55

all at once. But to

39:57

me this week's mantra I

39:59

release the need to do

40:01

it all has a couple

40:03

of meanings. The first meaning

40:05

is being able to accept

40:07

help and pushing back against

40:09

perhaps a natural urge for

40:11

hyper-independence. The second meaning is

40:13

the one I really want

40:16

to focus on and it's

40:18

about being selective, valuing quality

40:20

experiences over quantity, valuing the

40:22

quality of achievements over quantity,

40:24

allowing yourself to just sink

40:26

deep into one or two

40:28

things that you really care

40:30

about, rather than being a

40:32

jack of all trades and

40:34

a master of none to

40:36

use that saying. Essentially, when

40:38

I hear the mantra, I

40:40

release the need to do

40:42

it all. I also feel

40:44

permission to slow down and

40:46

be happy with what I

40:48

have and what I am

40:50

capable of. Let's roll it

40:52

back though. Where did this

40:54

idea of having to do

40:56

it all in order for

40:58

your life to be worthwhile

41:00

come from? And how is

41:02

it hurting us? I believe

41:04

the notion that we have

41:06

to do it all has

41:08

a few origins. The first

41:10

is that as society has

41:12

grown and progressed, we can

41:14

now see more of what's

41:16

available in the world. We

41:18

have more flavors to choose

41:20

from, and we just kind

41:22

of can't bear the idea

41:24

of... restricting ourselves. I always

41:26

think of Sylvia Plath's very

41:28

famous fig tree analogy about

41:30

sitting at the base of

41:32

a tree, seeing these branches

41:34

extending above you, each containing

41:36

a fig or a metaphor

41:38

for life for a... life

41:40

that you could choose, one

41:42

that you might deeply desire,

41:44

to be an artist, to

41:46

be someone climbing the career

41:48

ladder, to be a parent,

41:50

to be a free thinker,

41:52

to be a traveler, this,

41:54

that, all these different lives,

41:56

knowing that in some ways

41:58

you are not able to

42:00

live them all. You have

42:02

to choose one. I think

42:04

that's a myth. I don't

42:06

think you have to choose

42:08

one, but we'll get to

42:10

why I think that eventually.

42:12

Eventually that eventually. Essentially, that's

42:14

the first reason why I

42:16

feel we need to do

42:18

it all. We feel like

42:20

we don't want to miss

42:22

out. And I think that

42:24

fear of missing out also

42:26

has an element of social

42:28

comparison to it. Of course.

42:30

We see what other people

42:33

are doing and how successful

42:35

they are and how they're

42:37

able to juggle all these

42:39

things, and we panic. We

42:41

think, shouldn't I be doing

42:43

more? Shouldn't I be in

42:45

more places? Shouldn't I have

42:47

more to say for myself?

42:49

Another reason I think this

42:51

comes down to is our

42:53

obsession with success and how

42:55

our achievements have become very

42:57

much tied and connected to

42:59

our self-worth, often creating very

43:01

unrealistic standards for what we

43:03

can and do hope to

43:05

achieve. Evidence... To me, of

43:07

this is like the rise

43:09

of hustle culture, the rise

43:11

of the wonder-kind, people who

43:13

were young and successful, Forbes,

43:15

30 under 30, life achievement

43:17

awards, all given out to

43:19

people who, seemingly, do it

43:21

all, have it all, balance

43:23

it all. Let me just

43:25

say this. Humans were not

43:27

meant to hustle the way

43:29

we do now. They were

43:31

meant to just experience life

43:33

and be present. Eat some

43:35

berries. Eat some berries. make

43:37

some friends, sit around a

43:39

fire, explore nature, but in,

43:41

and I would say specifically

43:43

the last 300 years, society

43:45

has become... a lot more

43:47

focused on your output, what

43:49

you can say you've done,

43:51

and how seemingly impressive that

43:53

is to others, and how

43:55

this has become almost symbolic

43:57

of having a deeper meaning

43:59

in life. Accomplishment is the

44:01

meaning of life. That's what

44:03

the need to do it

44:05

all would tell you. For

44:07

me, I actually think it's

44:09

slowing down and being present

44:11

and really feeling what you

44:13

have chosen to focus on.

44:15

As a result of this

44:17

rise in the need to

44:19

do it all, I think

44:21

we've also become a lot

44:23

more individualistic. Our accomplishments are

44:25

for us and us only.

44:27

There's less focus on community,

44:29

on the people who have

44:31

assisted us in getting there,

44:33

and there's definitely more shame

44:35

in asking for help, because

44:37

we are scared. That may

44:39

make us look less capable

44:41

or more vulnerable. There is

44:43

one specific kind of person,

44:45

I believe, the need to

44:47

do it all hurts the

44:50

most, and it is the

44:52

type A overachievers, the individual

44:54

who has been taught that

44:56

accomplishment is the defining part

44:58

of your personality, who from

45:00

an early age has put

45:02

a lot into good grades

45:04

and a great resume and

45:06

extracurriculars. Many overachievers develop this

45:08

mindset really early on, often

45:10

as a response to, I

45:12

would say high parental expectations,

45:14

a need for validation, or

45:16

a desire to prove their

45:18

worth, maybe even low self-esteem.

45:20

They don't like themselves, they

45:22

don't feel accepted, they don't

45:24

feel loved, and so they

45:26

say to themselves, if I

45:28

just do more, people will

45:30

admire me, and therefore they

45:32

will like me. Perfectionism as

45:34

well and a fear of

45:36

failure also play a major

45:38

role. Feels like anything but

45:40

excellence and a massive list

45:42

of all the things you've

45:44

done is unacceptable. I think

45:46

ambition and high standards are

45:48

amazing things and they can

45:50

lead to great success, if

45:52

we work hard enough, if

45:54

we don't ask for help,

45:56

we can prevent disappointment or

45:58

rejection, we can feel like

46:00

our life is worth more.

46:02

What does this lead to?

46:04

Well I think ambition and

46:06

high standards are amazing things

46:08

and they can lead to

46:10

great success and great achievement

46:12

and maybe yes a sense

46:14

of purpose. but it can

46:16

also come at a cost,

46:18

the cost being your mental

46:20

well-being, stress, burnout, and difficulty

46:22

enjoying the present moment. Let's

46:24

focus on this for a

46:26

second because I think it's

46:28

an element of doing it

46:30

all that we don't talk

46:32

about enough. If your self-worth

46:34

and your concept is tied

46:36

to how much you can

46:38

do, accomplish, see how much

46:40

you can push yourself, you're

46:42

always thinking about the next.

46:44

big thing and once you're

46:46

there it kind of becomes

46:48

worthless to you because it's

46:50

just a checkbox and I've

46:52

seen this with athletes people

46:54

who travel for a living

46:56

who just check off the

46:58

countries to say they've been

47:00

rather than actually like enjoying

47:02

the trip famous musicians people

47:04

early on in their careers

47:07

trying to just do as

47:09

much as they can to

47:11

say they did it to

47:13

say look I'm worthy and

47:15

I just feel like in

47:17

those moments a lot of

47:19

people will tell you I

47:21

was living this life of

47:23

success. I didn't enjoy any

47:25

of it because it was

47:27

just a checkbox. There was

47:29

nothing more. There was no

47:31

substance to what I was

47:33

experiencing. And like I said

47:35

it leads to burn out

47:37

less enjoyment. of life for

47:39

sure, but it can also

47:41

create a really profound sense

47:43

of emptiness and a sense

47:45

of, you know, who am

47:47

I if I'm not the

47:49

best or doing the most?

47:51

What if you get sick?

47:53

What if you need a

47:55

day off? If you're someone

47:57

who needs to do it

47:59

all and not accept help

48:01

and have all these accomplishments,

48:03

those moments of necessary rest

48:05

are unthinkable. Let me maybe

48:07

just offer you an alternative.

48:09

What would happen if we

48:11

became selective and intentional about

48:13

what we choose to do?

48:15

What if we became quality

48:17

people and ignored as much

48:19

as we could the pressure

48:21

of appearances? This is what

48:23

I would imagine it looks

48:25

like. It would look like.

48:27

a life lived with purpose

48:29

rather than pressure. Instead of

48:31

stretching ourselves thin across endless

48:33

commitments, we would be able

48:35

to carefully choose where to

48:37

direct our energy. We would

48:39

be able to invest deeply

48:41

in the things that matter.

48:43

We would be happier, I'm

48:45

assuming, we would be more

48:47

present. We would be, I

48:49

think, actually more purposeful. because

48:51

we really care deeply about

48:53

something rather than being half

48:55

engaged in a million things.

48:57

Being a quality person, to

48:59

put it really simply means

49:01

prioritizing depth over breadth, not

49:03

chasing every opportunity, and most

49:05

importantly, allowing for rest and

49:07

reflection, and knowing that that

49:09

is just as valuable as

49:11

action. Reflecting on this topic,

49:13

I think it can feel

49:15

stressful because it goes against

49:17

a lot of maybe what

49:19

you've been taught to believe

49:21

about your worth and it

49:24

challenges you to really rethink

49:26

some deeply ingrained beliefs about

49:28

self-worth and self-reliance. But recognizing

49:30

we don't have to do

49:32

it all, when you fully

49:34

embrace that philosophy, it's very

49:36

liberating and I think it's

49:38

also essential for our well-being.

49:40

Coming up, let's get personal.

49:42

I'll open up about how

49:44

releasing the need to do

49:46

it all has not been

49:48

a one-time decision for me,

49:50

but an ongoing journey, one

49:52

of adjusting and learning and

49:54

repeating to myself and worth

49:56

more than my accomplishments. If

49:58

I'm being honest, I'm still

50:00

kind of stumbling along the

50:02

way. but we will talk

50:04

about all of that and

50:06

more. Stay tuned. I'll be

50:08

right back after this brief

50:10

pause. If you want to

50:12

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