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0:39

Bullprint to me is the best idea

0:41

I've ever come come up with and the most practical

0:43

idea I've ever come up with to address that.

0:45

And so from the outside perspective, it

0:47

appears to be health and wellness

0:49

and anti aging and whatnot. That's

0:51

all true.

0:52

but really it's a philosophical endeavor

0:55

in the future of intelligence.

0:58

I feel like I could rule the world. I don't

1:00

know where I could be, what I want to.

1:03

I put my own in it like a days

1:05

old son of my oldest travel never

1:07

looking back. We're officially

1:09

live. So Brian, I've been messaging

1:11

you for, like, six or

1:13

eight months now. But basically, I'll

1:15

give, like, a very brief background and

1:17

and you can kinda, like, tells a little bit more

1:19

because I and, neverly, I'll I'll miss something, but you started

1:22

a bunch of stuff. The most that way, the

1:24

the biggest thing is brain tree. think

1:26

you bootstrapped that. Right? I did.

1:28

So you bootstrap that, sold it for like something like

1:30

eight hundred million dollars to PayPal. You

1:32

guys also bought Venmo, which I think

1:35

is like the greatest acquisition. One of

1:37

the best acquisitions of all time because you bought

1:39

it for kinda nothing compared to what it

1:41

is now. And then you're you've done a

1:43

bunch of other things you've done on kernel, which is interesting,

1:45

but you and you have this fun that's kinda interesting.

1:47

But the thing that I started reading

1:49

is your new thing called BLUEPRINT, which the

1:52

the kind of the I'm kind of an idiot. And so

1:54

the stupid way of describing it is like,

1:57

you have your biological age, and then

1:59

you have your chronological age. Your chronological

2:01

age is just how many years old you and

2:03

then you have your biological, which is it measures

2:06

bunch of different things like your organs,

2:08

your blood, and you're basically trying to

2:10

reverse your biological age

2:12

faster than the chronological

2:15

age goes up which inevitably means you

2:17

live forever. I mean, is that is that basically and

2:19

you're blogging and, like, sharing everything along the

2:21

way. Is that right? Great job. Bryan,

2:24

what is your chronological age and what

2:26

is your current biological age? I

2:28

left my mother's womb forty five

2:30

years ago. And

2:33

biologically,

2:34

I'm a few hundred

2:36

different ages. And so you for example,

2:38

if you're looking at the age of your heart, you

2:41

can characterize the age

2:43

of the heart through a few dozen markers. You

2:45

can do the same thing with other parts of the body.

2:47

And so you're actually a collection

2:49

of some very large number of

2:51

markers because different parts of the body

2:53

age at different speeds, and then your

2:56

life choices and environment also

2:57

affects that. So I wanna

3:00

ask you all about this blueprint thing because I think

3:02

it's amazing. But can I ask you a few questions

3:04

about Bryan first? please?

3:07

So Braintree I mean, like, you know, you

3:09

guys are owned by PayPal now. Another competitor

3:13

of yours, I think, is is Stripe, which is

3:15

these are like high-tech companies, you know, pretty

3:17

complicated things. How on earth

3:19

do you bootstrap a business like that? I mean, I

3:21

think by like year three or year four,

3:23

you're doing like eight or nine million in revenue. I

3:25

mean, you kinda you guys kinda took off.

3:27

So I understand, like, how you're able to bootstrap it.

3:29

bootstrap it once you got to maybe ten million in revenue.

3:31

But how on Earth do you make something like that from scratch?

3:34

I

3:34

was I guess it started when I was twenty one.

3:36

I decided that I I

3:38

wanted to try to do something meaningful for

3:41

humanity. I grew up reading a whole bunch of biography

3:43

about people who had done things that kind of place,

3:45

and I admired

3:47

people who tried to identify the thing on

3:49

the horizon that was barely reachable

3:51

during their lifetime and they went after it.

3:53

And

3:53

at the age of twenty one, I didn't know what that

3:56

was, and I didn't know how I could do

3:58

it. And

3:58

so I thought, you know, given

4:00

my options said I might as well, I'll be coming career,

4:02

I'll make whole bunch of money by the eight thirty. And

4:04

then at that point, I'll try to go after something.

4:07

And so it was a naive contemplation of how

4:09

to go about doing things. I'd grown up in a

4:11

small town basically, you know, with

4:13

my grandpa on a farm, I didn't meet

4:15

the engineer until I was twenty

4:18

one or twenty two years old. It was

4:20

very much a a Farm Boy like,

4:22

Ray, you know, deep, really just community.

4:25

And so I did a bunch of startups

4:27

and I just accidentally fell into payments

4:30

because I I was

4:31

building a startup up, I struggling to pay my

4:33

bills, I had a child at the

4:35

time,

4:36

And I would do anything for money.

4:38

I applied for sixty jobs. Nobody even contemplate

4:41

hiring me. And

4:41

so I found this job to sell Credit Card

4:44

Processing Services door to door. And so I agreed

4:46

to do it.

4:46

And it was a hundred percent commission, and I became

4:49

the company's number

4:49

one salesperson in a in a matter of months

4:52

doing it part time while building my startup. And

4:54

so I just accidentally stumbled

4:56

into payments and learned there was this big opportunity.

4:58

PayPal had

4:59

grown up through the Internet, but they had stopped really

5:01

innovating for a couple years. And so

5:03

developers didn't have the tools they'd like. And

5:05

so I started Braintree. And

5:07

we landed a big deal early on with OpenTable.

5:10

They We're accepting credit cards

5:12

to increase the likelihood of a person would

5:14

show up or the reservation. But they

5:15

didn't wanna store the credit card data because they had

5:17

compliance issues. And

5:18

so we built out a custom solution for

5:21

them that allowed us to store critical

5:23

data on our side instead of them so they didn't

5:25

have the compliance, but still accept credit cards.

5:27

And so from scratch, we built this payment

5:29

system first for them that we expanded out to more

5:31

general merchants. And we

5:32

got a few customers like Airbnb, GitHub,

5:34

Uber, We helped Uber

5:36

do their no. The payment experience where

5:38

you get in the car, you

5:40

arrive your destination, you leave the car, no

5:42

exchange of payment information, no signing of

5:44

receipts, no printing of receipts. started

5:45

doing a few things like that, and we

5:48

really made our headway into high-tech

5:49

companies going very quickly that they prefer

5:52

to use our software. you just said a

5:54

bunch of things that were all super interesting.

5:56

First of all, you're kinda like Elon

5:58

Musk without the fame. You know, like,

5:59

you had your kinda payments he he

6:02

had x dot com and PayPal. You you had

6:04

your payments thing. Now you're doing like a

6:06

brain interface and stuff like that. You you you

6:08

do these moonshot project trying to live forever, that

6:10

sort of stuff. So I think you're you're a

6:12

fascinating dude. You said something about door to

6:14

door sales. And on the pod, we've talked about

6:16

this before, which is that, you know, our producer

6:18

who's not here today, because having a baby.

6:20

You know, he's Mormon and he did his mission

6:22

and we talked about, you know, what that's like.

6:24

We've talked about, you know, cutco and some of these,

6:26

like, door to door textbook companies where

6:28

it really breeds this like amazing

6:31

entrepreneur because you have to learn sales, you have to

6:33

be able to work hard, face rejection all

6:35

the time, you know, that sort of thing. and it's

6:37

like this write a passage. I think if you come out the

6:39

other side of that, you were successful at donor sales.

6:41

I would bet on you with any role in my

6:43

company if you're successful door to door

6:45

sales, but I've never done it. So I'm just

6:47

talking out my ass here. Is that accurate

6:49

in your view? And how you know, I guess,

6:51

how do you think about to door sales? And how did

6:53

you become the number one when

6:55

you don't seem like the most, you

6:57

know, charismatic, you know,

6:59

sales sales? Exactly. Yeah.

7:03

I mean,

7:05

I don't know if you had the kind of the same haircut

7:07

back then. But, like, I don't know. I don't know. What what what

7:09

did it for you? You're

7:11

not saying it.

7:12

That's funny. I mean, it's I

7:15

guess the, like, the

7:16

one thought on this, you know, my my

7:18

kids are

7:18

nineteen seventeen and thirteen.

7:21

And they're

7:22

currently going through these

7:24

important life decisions on what they study in school

7:26

and what they try to do. I'm doing

7:28

everything I can to help them focus

7:30

on

7:31

CS, math, and physics. Like,

7:33

these are the tools that you these are the

7:35

language that you wanna be fluent in. to

7:37

be architects in the future.

7:39

And in

7:40

many ways, my choice of

7:42

doing the door to door sales was

7:44

just a it

7:45

was my hacker attempt at

7:48

paying

7:48

the bills with the child

7:50

while I buy time before I start something

7:52

new. and

7:53

it was Adam desperation. It was like

7:55

I was seeking it out. And so

7:57

it was just a and as also a case, just

7:59

dealing with the reality

7:59

of my skills that had grown up and this

8:02

farm like community PayPal that just

8:04

didn't have any engineering background.

8:06

And so the the thing that

8:08

I enjoyed the most about the sales

8:10

was it's not doing a high

8:12

pressure sales tactics and it's not trying

8:14

to manipulate somebody.

8:16

It's not trying to perfect the skill.

8:19

It's about getting in and figuring out

8:21

the system.

8:22

Like, what is really going on? And if

8:24

you If

8:25

you jump into the role of payments in the year two

8:27

thousand seven when I started this, it

8:30

was defined by deep distrust.

8:33

that it was

8:34

a game where credit

8:35

card payments is a really expensive. And when

8:37

a when a business owner gets their credit

8:40

card monthly

8:40

invoice,

8:41

it's so complicated. They have

8:43

no idea what's going on.

8:44

And the providers make it even

8:46

more complicated in how they report things.

8:48

And

8:48

so it creates this opportunity for people to

8:50

be extremely deceptive and create high

8:52

commissions. And so and

8:53

look at that system, opportunity number

8:56

one, be

8:56

honest. be

8:58

transparent, be honest, and be trustworthy.

9:00

And then number

9:01

two is because there was so much

9:03

skepticism on this, businesses

9:05

didn't know how to differentiate

9:07

why should

9:07

I do this work with this company versus that

9:09

company? When in reality,

9:10

most companies were mostly the same.

9:12

It was it's very hard to differentiate payments.

9:15

So

9:15

two is making that known. So again, the

9:17

the customer has a very clear understanding.

9:20

And then

9:20

three, it's just being reliable and and

9:22

competent. Like, that, you know, that when

9:24

the customer tracks with you and your team, they

9:27

say, what an amazing

9:29

experience? And

9:29

so it was once you figure

9:32

out how the system worked, it was

9:34

very easy to solve. And so I would just walk

9:36

in and, like, the moment you walk

9:38

in the store, they can tell

9:40

you're

9:40

not a customer. by way dressed and maybe

9:42

the way you're walking or whatever, and they immediately

9:45

hate you.

9:46

And so you have to

9:48

overcome this animosity from the get

9:50

go And

9:51

so I would take out a hundred dollar bill and say,

9:53

I will give you this or one minute at

9:55

your time. And if you say

9:56

no to me, you can keep it. And

9:59

I they'd be like,

9:59

alright. Whatever. This sounds fun. What do

10:02

you want? And I would just

10:03

walk them through these basic principles, like,

10:05

here's what's going on. Here's what they're

10:07

doing. I'm really

10:08

no different than anyone else. You're just

10:10

gonna find something clean and transparent and

10:12

reliable with me. And

10:13

most people be like, okay. I just want

10:15

it to be done. Like, I don't want to deal with

10:17

any more deception. I don't want to have to change

10:20

again. I don't want these machine leases.

10:22

And so

10:22

it was it was really just again. It's system

10:24

deconstruction and reconfiguration.

10:26

And it

10:27

was the skill set that I tried

10:29

to build again and again through

10:31

every business I built, walking

10:33

into a new world trying to figure

10:35

out what is really going on Johnson how to be constructed

10:37

and then maneuver within it. Was

10:39

the early product just like

10:41

an agency where you were getting your friends to

10:43

help install these credit card processors?

10:45

Or, you know, what what was that early

10:47

v one of BrainTree? Because you said you're not

10:49

an engineer. What what did that look like?

10:51

Because this is pretty complicated stuff, it seems.

10:53

The first product was for OpenTable. It was just allowing

10:56

someone to make a reservation, put in their credit card

10:58

number, and have it stored. So

10:59

to the user, it appeared as if I was

11:01

entering my credit card information, in

11:03

the

11:03

OpenTable system when in

11:05

fact they're Internet into our

11:07

system behind the scenes. And so OpenTable and

11:09

who built it? I had a team of engineers

11:12

software engineers do it. And how'd you

11:14

fund that? I had made enough money

11:16

from selling this stuff door to door that

11:18

I could bootstrap it and hire them.

11:20

how how

11:20

much did you make roughly did you do

11:22

it for, like, a year or something like that to

11:24

cover the bills and all that, say, create

11:26

a stash Yeah. I did about eleven

11:28

months, and I remember at eleven month

11:30

mark, my my

11:33

portfolio of customers were generating

11:36

I

11:36

think it was, like, fifty nine thousand a

11:38

month

11:39

of revenue. And I

11:41

thought that's that's interesting. Right? Like,

11:43

I mean, I'm coming from this world

11:45

where my

11:46

family, we would decide

11:49

whether to spend our five dollar

11:51

family date budget on going through a car

11:53

wash. or,

11:53

you know, going to going and get

11:56

something in the restaurant. Like, we grew

11:58

up in so in such a frugal

11:59

environment. and

12:01

then seeing that it was like fifty nine

12:03

thousand dollars a month. Now I'd always been wanting to

12:05

build I was I

12:07

was not willing to trade my time

12:10

for money. you know, if

12:10

someone wanted to say I'll pay you fifteen dollars an

12:12

hour or two blank, I didn't

12:14

wanna make that exchange. I wanted

12:16

to say I am willing to take zero

12:18

for

12:18

an indefinite period of time

12:21

and

12:21

exchanged the opportunity to make a whole

12:23

lot more. And that

12:24

was true. Like, I didn't make any money till I was really thirty

12:26

four years old. I was the entire time

12:28

was working for basically zero. But

12:29

that's when I started seeing that what kind of money you

12:31

could make in payments on this residual revenue

12:33

basis? The

12:34

fifty nine thousand, that was what you were

12:36

getting as residuals. So that's what the company was getting after the

12:38

company was. And they were giving me a cut. Yeah. And so

12:40

you're getting a cut of that. And so you

12:42

you're saying these things where you're like,

12:44

I knew I didn't wanna trade time for money or,

12:47

like, I wanted to, like, do

12:49

the biggest, like, technological breakthrough, and I didn't

12:51

know what that was. So I first decided to make some

12:53

money. And by thirty, I'll have that figured You're

12:55

saying these things as a twenty one year old

12:57

most people don't know

12:59

or have the perspective or wisdom wisdom

13:01

to to think that way. That's pretty

13:03

profound. And you're also saying you grew up kind of like on

13:05

a small farm in a deeply religious community. So it's

13:07

not like you were surrounded by these other, like,

13:09

you know, by other technologists, or

13:12

business sort of like mentors. So

13:15

where is this coming from? Did you and even

13:17

this, like, hundred dollar bill trick, like, you

13:19

know, did you read, like, how do they either think and

13:21

grow rich or, like, what did you did you read any

13:23

biographies or books that, like,

13:25

change your way? Or how the heck did you do this as a

13:27

small farm boy to, like,

13:29

get this type of thinking in your Bryan?

13:31

I can

13:31

probably make up an answer. It

13:34

seems

13:34

to me right now. I have no idea. What

13:36

book see what biographies? You said you read

13:38

a lot of biographies. What were you reading that

13:41

changed your life? No.

13:42

Probably read over a hundred.

13:45

maybe even two hundred biographies at this

13:47

point. Like, for

13:47

example, I would go on deep dives

13:50

of trying to understand certain world

13:52

history events like World War two. And

13:54

so one issue buyer favorite is

13:56

a a gentleman that Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

13:59

He was trying to assassinate

14:01

Hitler and

14:02

he was deeply religious. You understand

14:04

world war two and Germany

14:07

and

14:07

nazism through the frame of this

14:10

individual and his plans to go about and

14:12

his observations about what other people are doing the

14:14

community. And so I found, like,

14:16

these these biographies provided

14:18

this back door on how to

14:20

understand events as they

14:22

were told to me in school. In school, you

14:24

have this highly compressed version of history of,

14:26

like, alright, everybody just got the same page of

14:28

bringing stand these big things that happened,

14:30

but you really miss out on the nuance. And we

14:32

all know how flawed

14:34

historical

14:34

accounts are because of

14:36

just the

14:36

nature of of humans and the

14:39

way people write

14:40

history. And so these

14:41

biographies help me start

14:43

to piece

14:44

together an understanding of

14:46

reality that was much more nuanced

14:49

sometimes contrary to

14:51

to primary narratives. And so it it

14:53

invites me to

14:54

always reject

14:56

the first narrative that's offered

14:58

and understand

14:59

it not for a factual statement

15:02

but for a

15:03

wishful attempt to be

15:06

understood, to be accepted.

15:08

You said

15:08

earlier, you said I wanted to make a certain

15:10

amount of money by age thirty. What was

15:12

your number? What was your target? Well,

15:15

on

15:15

the on the lower end, it was

15:17

seven million dollars. I had built

15:19

out my spreadsheet model and assumed a certain

15:21

rate of interest and basically said, if I

15:23

make a certain amount of money, this is an annuity that

15:25

will be good enough for my entire life assuming

15:27

I don't need capital to do anything.

15:29

Like, just if it's time, like,

15:31

I'm writing

15:32

or something. Then if I do

15:34

something in the world, I had mapped out

15:36

something like a hundred and fifty, three hundred

15:38

million

15:38

as a a

15:40

basis that would get me started

15:42

on that path.

15:44

Alright. And when today's episode is brought

15:46

to you by imperfect action hosted

15:48

by Steph Taylor. It's a podcast on

15:50

HubSpot's podcast network, the

15:52

audio destination for business

15:54

professionals. In perfect action is a bite

15:56

sized online marketing podcast for

15:58

business owners, so join Saf Taylor, she answers

16:00

all your business marketing questions that deep dives

16:02

into the nitty gritty of online marketing,

16:04

content marketing, social media marketing,

16:06

and marketing for strategy for

16:08

business owners. A few recent episodes include some

16:10

of the biggest mistakes you can make with your

16:12

launch. Another one is why growing your audience

16:14

feels so hard in two thousand twenty two, and

16:16

another one is five ways to make content

16:18

creation less consuming. So check it

16:21

out. It's called in perfect action. You

16:23

can look it up wherever you get your podcast.

16:25

When you sold when you were a

16:27

thirty four. Right? Yes.

16:29

And what

16:30

did you what were you able to walk away with? Were you able to

16:32

hit your your your the north end of your

16:34

target? Yeah. I get three hundred

16:36

million. What does that you know, you're

16:38

you're a religious

16:40

farm kid who doesn't know much

16:43

and and then in a matter of eleven or

16:45

twelve years, you're able to walk away with, you

16:47

know, north of three hundred billion dollars. What

16:49

does that feel like? And what do you do with that

16:51

money once it hits your account? You

16:52

don't seem like a victory dance kind of guy.

16:55

Wait a second. What's

16:57

true? That's true.

17:00

That's true. That's true. That's true. that

17:02

is

17:02

very true. It's

17:04

sobering because you

17:05

know it's bigger

17:07

than what you realize.

17:10

but

17:10

you don't know in what ways.

17:12

And so it

17:12

wasn't the case that I had a

17:15

long list of things I wanted to

17:17

buy and we're just waiting for this cash to come in. I don't think

17:19

I've spent any

17:19

money for a long

17:21

time. And I think

17:23

you're now looking back now, even my

17:27

most

17:27

aggressive expectations on how life would

17:30

change weren't even

17:30

close to how

17:32

significantly my reality would change over the years

17:34

with that event. Well,

17:36

changed? I mean,

17:39

your

17:39

your relationship with the

17:41

world fundamentally changes.

17:44

I mean, in

17:47

any relationship, there's power

17:49

dynamics of

17:50

wealth and

17:51

power and status and

17:54

age,

17:54

there's all sorts of things that that

17:56

shape human interactions. And

17:59

the it

18:01

creates a different entry point for everything because

18:04

now we all know this

18:06

from our

18:06

experiences. When you engage with people of different

18:08

powers of different levels,

18:10

it

18:11

changes the dynamics of your relationship with them.

18:14

Expectations, interests, rationale,

18:17

justification, it just

18:19

alters everything about I mean, I

18:21

remember

18:21

one of the one of the first stories that I

18:23

heard somebody shared with me is is Larry Bird.

18:25

I don't know if it's true. The second or

18:27

third hand, but Larry had a group of good

18:29

friends that he went back and saw. And

18:31

he

18:31

had just made money, I think, signing it for

18:33

the NBA, sat down to have dinner with

18:36

his friends. And Larry was like, you

18:36

know, I got it. Don't worry about

18:38

it.

18:39

And it's been so quick.

18:40

Great, Larry. It's amazing. Thank you so much.

18:42

Second time happens.

18:44

and

18:45

everyone's quiet. Assuming Larry's gonna pick

18:48

up the bill,

18:49

he does. Third time, there's just like a court,

18:51

Larry's gonna pick this up and probably take it somewhere

18:53

else. And so, Larry, from his perspective, just like,

18:56

if, you know, the fund was

18:58

removed because now instead of me going

19:00

through something, be generous with

19:02

someone I'm

19:03

now in this expectation, and so it deterred him

19:06

from wanting to interact

19:07

with people because there was this expectation on

19:09

him that anything he did

19:11

there

19:11

will be this expectation. And

19:13

so it just I think anyone who's

19:16

experienced fame or anything in the store, there

19:18

are these underlying dynamics of human attractions, which

19:20

are just a reality for everybody. And, yeah,

19:22

it

19:22

would have been helpful, I think, thinking back if

19:24

I could have spoken to somebody and if they

19:26

said, hey, like, let me just share five really important

19:28

things with you. on what it

19:30

means to have money and how you can best navigate this

19:33

because it it's taking me some time to

19:35

learn. Well, there's probably gonna

19:36

be like a hundred fifty thousand people that listen

19:39

to this you could be that mentor for them. So what

19:41

would you say? What are those five things? But

19:43

give us three at least. One

19:45

is

19:45

transparency of intent.

19:48

you

19:48

know, when when you're with somebody, it's very

19:50

important that you establish why you're doing,

19:52

what you're doing, and the roles you're gonna

19:54

play with each other. If

19:56

it's ambiguous, then it creates complications in

19:58

your relationship. And so

20:00

it's

20:00

unpleasant for anyone to be surprised in a relationship

20:03

of what somebody really wants in

20:05

the relationship. So

20:06

just transparency, we're doing this on these conditions.

20:08

Two, I'd say that money

20:10

is not a a resource that

20:12

is viable for necessarily for

20:14

the things that lie require

20:17

is

20:17

most valuable for the time

20:19

it creates that you can

20:21

solve problems with

20:24

money. So

20:24

utilize it wisely, not on

20:27

acquiring frivolous

20:29

things, but on solving fundamental problems

20:31

of time. And then

20:32

three is there's a weird

20:34

psychological relationship with it

20:36

where you are not that,

20:39

and

20:39

it is not you. and

20:41

to

20:41

have an identity independent

20:43

of that because it can

20:45

get very confusing if you don't maintain

20:47

those clear boundaries. What did

20:49

you so I know that I read that you invested

20:51

a hundred million dollars into your fund, which

20:53

you guys have invested in all types of cool stuff, and it

20:55

seems like you've had some really good outcomes. And then

20:57

you started a company called Colonel that we could talk about a little a

20:59

little bit. What did you do with the rest? Did you this is

21:01

a good question that Sean always asked. He goes, what do what do you do

21:03

with your money? You know, like, if you had a pie chart, like,

21:06

where would to be, like, just boring

21:08

index funds and bonds. It was Sean for a

21:10

long time. He was, like, having the crypto and

21:12

and having cash. What about you? It

21:14

depends on

21:14

what your objectives are. I mean, I think

21:16

good

21:16

advice for me at that point would have

21:19

been you are an entrepreneur. You're always

21:21

going to be an entrepreneur.

21:22

Cash is king. Like,

21:24

don't put your money anything that's gonna be a

21:26

liquid So

21:26

there's been times in the past couple of years

21:29

where

21:29

I desperately needed cash and it was not I

21:31

didn't have liquid levels that I wanted. And

21:34

so liquidity for entrepreneurs

21:36

is really important. Number two

21:38

is that the movement that our West

21:40

fund was like, okay. Wait. I did range of Venmo,

21:42

primarily a software engineering

21:44

objective within an established entry of

21:46

payments. I was moving

21:47

into science.

21:49

And the question that I was trying to solve

21:51

for example,

21:52

could we build a

21:55

global biological immune system? So we

21:56

all know that if a problem

21:58

in the world arises, and that problem

22:00

can be addressed by

22:02

software

22:02

engineers coding to their

22:05

computers to solve

22:06

the problem. we're

22:07

pretty good at that as a species. If

22:10

a problem arises in the

22:12

world that

22:12

requires the engineering of

22:14

biology, of atoms, and molecules, and

22:17

organisms, We're

22:17

not there yet. We don't have the ability

22:19

to deploy millions of people who

22:21

can just engineer biology at

22:23

a moment's

22:23

notice and solve problems. Like, is the

22:26

coral reef dying because the water's too

22:28

acidic. We need carbon

22:30

capture, like, we need, you know, whatever the the

22:32

problem is, as I wanted

22:33

to invest in companies that

22:36

would basically serve as the foundation

22:38

of building blocks for humanity of

22:40

building this infrastructure so

22:42

we could actually engineer

22:44

with the reliability atoms, molecules, and organisms. So

22:47

if I wrote this

22:47

in this blog post,

22:48

like, if, for example, a pandemic happened,

22:50

it would be amazing

22:51

if we have these capabilities

22:54

to

22:54

build up the biological infrastructure

22:56

detection,

22:57

vaccine creation, you know, remediation

22:59

and whatnot. And that actually had that actually was

23:01

true with Gingko Bioworks, one of my

23:04

first investments. ended up

23:04

working on the mRNA vaccine. But

23:06

it was just this

23:08

idea of like if we've

23:10

done

23:10

very well

23:11

mastering programming

23:14

bits.

23:14

We are

23:15

emerging now powerfully in the

23:17

engineering of biology. And so some of the companies like

23:19

we are doing synthetic biology engineering.

23:22

One company is doing their storing

23:25

information using DNA. So instead of a hard

23:27

drive made of the material

23:28

we're accustomed to, they stored on

23:30

DNA because that's Nature's Hard Drive. Another

23:32

company is doing Nanotech, building

23:35

these

23:35

structures atom by atom, like literally assembling

23:37

them like Lego's. And so the

23:39

companies and they've been successful. Like, some of

23:41

these are breakeven, some of these are positive, are

23:44

profitable. And so I wanted

23:45

to do this because branch

23:47

of Endo was was really nice to teach about

23:49

software engineering. I wanted

23:51

to understand science and

23:53

engineering of science. And so it

23:56

educational experience for me of getting deep in the

23:58

trenches with a bunch of PhD

23:59

entrepreneurs across the

24:01

range of all these different scientific

24:03

disciplines. How much do

24:04

you think I wanna talk about the health stuff in a second,

24:06

but how much do you think Venmo alone is

24:08

worth right now? You guys had bought that

24:10

for twenty eight million, I think. like,

24:12

only five only, like, five or six or

24:14

seven years into Braintree, like, pretty early

24:17

into Braintree's existing. Did you pay mostly

24:19

cash for that? I mean, how did you finance

24:21

that deal? what do you

24:23

think that that's worth now? because it keeps saying Braintree Venmo as if,

24:25

like, Venmo is as powerful or as

24:27

valuable as Braintree. I don't know the current

24:29

values. I mean, I I stole the company

24:32

several years ago. I know it's very viable, and

24:34

so it's brain tree. And so this was

24:36

a decision I made when when

24:38

I did sell range

24:40

of FM0 for eight hundred million. It was

24:42

a

24:42

decision of, okay, so I'm now thirty four years

24:44

old. I want to move on to this

24:47

next life. Accumulation of money

24:49

was not my objective. And I

24:51

could have

24:51

stuck with the company and we could have

24:53

made more even

24:54

more viable But

24:56

it was like, okay. So if I do this, it's three hundred million, that's a

24:58

good enough starting base to go off into

25:00

these other things. And because they were going to be

25:02

in the areas of you

25:04

know,

25:04

deep tech. I knew they

25:06

would take a decade or so to start. It

25:08

was just gonna be a long

25:10

startup process. And so and looking at

25:12

that, you know, prime of my ears. I thought, I'll

25:15

take this.

25:15

I'll have a go at this and

25:18

try to

25:18

do something meaningful there. But it was just a calculation of

25:20

time and and reconfiguring

25:23

my life towards that. And so you've

25:25

now, let's say, that's ten years ago,

25:27

ten eleven years ago. We're we're

25:30

basically eleven years and a hundred million

25:32

dollars in. And you probably at the beginning

25:34

had a bunch of things that were bets that you

25:36

thought were interesting might pan out predictions

25:39

maybe of what what the world might look like in twenty

25:41

twenty two. Can you as best as you can

25:43

give us the summary of, like, you know,

25:45

What were you right about? What were you wrong about?

25:47

And where do you think the the

25:50

big sort of like promise is

25:52

now? The

25:52

venture fund has been remarkably successful

25:55

especially a as a newbie into

25:57

this to this world, the number

25:59

of good

25:59

investments relative to bad investments is extremely

26:02

high. So I'd say we've done a new

26:04

remarkably well on the deep tech side

26:06

with synthetic biology, genomics,

26:08

Nanotech. On kernel, I think

26:10

we nailed the

26:12

technology selection.

26:12

Initially, there was The idea was

26:15

could we make brain

26:17

measurement

26:17

ubiquitous in

26:18

society? And we can pretty

26:20

we can measure almost everything about

26:23

ourselves in a fairly routine

26:25

way

26:25

except for our brains. We don't

26:27

have And it's going on It's been a kernel list.

26:29

People Listen is probably going to a kernel list. So, like, get in

26:31

I mean, I've just seen as, like, a helmet that you put

26:34

on like, you think something and

26:36

you could change, like, something on a computer

26:38

because of your brainwaves. So

26:39

wearables are a familiar concept.

26:41

We put this thing on our fingers or our

26:44

wrists. And it gives us data,

26:46

light, sleep stats,

26:48

respiration rate, heart

26:50

rate, cardiovascular, expenditure,

26:52

and exercise. Like, we get these this

26:55

set of data, and it's pretty easy to

26:57

acquire. And then

26:58

we can use this information to

27:00

help us understand our health and wellness. We

27:02

currently can't do that for our brain. So if

27:04

I have a question, am I

27:06

in the early stages of cognitive decline. Do I have

27:09

anxiety, if so, what kind of anxiety? Do

27:11

I have depression? Or what kind of depression?

27:13

Is my lifestyle conducive to states

27:15

of focus or not? what is

27:16

my emotional reaction to things? And

27:19

just really basic questions. And

27:21

most people think that their

27:24

self awareness is basically the sensor

27:26

system that captures their brain.

27:27

Like because I'm conscious and

27:30

because I can feel when I have a headache,

27:32

it

27:32

basically is a robust enough sensor

27:34

system. to do

27:35

it. And that's not correct. So much

27:37

happens in our brain that we are unaware

27:39

of, and there's so much data in our brain that

27:41

is informative what we wanna do.

27:43

And so this what we at Carl, what

27:45

we've done is we've built a neural imaging

27:48

helmet like you said, Sam. You just put

27:49

it on your head. It takes one minute to

27:52

set up It

27:53

uses light to

27:54

measure the brain activity. And

27:56

these activity patterns are

27:58

extremely

27:59

informative. So for

28:00

example, I did, I was a pilot

28:03

participant for a ketamine study. The

28:05

ketamine has been used for the treatment

28:07

of depression. We use it as an off label study with

28:09

healthy people. But the

28:10

question is, what

28:11

does ketamine do to your

28:14

brain? And, you

28:15

know, you, of course, someone can do ketamine and they can,

28:17

like, hey, Sam, how was ketamine? Like, I

28:19

don't know. Like in a different dimension, and I think I feel better,

28:21

but I'm not sure. But it it's kinda like, you

28:23

know, how was your sleep for the past week?

28:26

It's an extremely imprecise answering you going on the

28:28

subjective self assessment, your memory space, you

28:30

really know, and it's like it's a

28:32

disaster. And so this This

28:34

measurement system is basically meant to

28:37

standardize the

28:38

measurement of the brain.

28:40

And so This

28:42

part of challenge was building a device of

28:44

of identifying is there a technology and

28:47

existence that can be

28:49

built that makes brain

28:51

measurement mainstream. So everyone does it for

28:53

everything. And then

28:54

second is, can we find applications

28:56

for early markets? And so we build the

28:58

tech. We have

28:59

a few papers coming out. and now we're

29:01

in the product market fit,

29:03

finding the first application for the technology.

29:05

When you

29:06

so for the listeners, if

29:08

you just Google Brian Johnson blueprint, you'll see it. I don't what's

29:10

the URL? Is it just for the blueprint? What

29:12

is it?

29:13

Bryan Johnson dot co. What sorry,

29:16

John. One one thought of comment on this just

29:18

or to make this maybe an an attempt to make

29:20

an intuitive. When people begin experiencing

29:23

cognitive decline, this may be true what

29:25

happens with how with and talk case with

29:27

alcohol too. We we just did an

29:29

alcohol study. When

29:30

your brain is impaired,

29:32

your

29:32

brain compensates

29:34

for the deficiency. And

29:35

so you you can't pick up the

29:38

impairment. But you

29:38

can you can record it and identify

29:40

it. But

29:41

at a certain level of of the talk occasion,

29:43

your brain can no longer make up for that impairment. And

29:45

so that it reveals itself in impairment

29:47

and behavior. And so that is

29:49

true with somebody who may be experiencing

29:52

cough decline you may be

29:54

along the path of cognitive decline

29:56

and you

29:56

may say, I feel great, I seem great,

29:58

I'm moving great,

29:59

everything's great, but you

30:01

just can't pick it up. And so it's the

30:03

value of like, oh, wouldn't it be amazing

30:05

if I have

30:06

the ability to measure my brain on a

30:08

routine basis that

30:09

informs me of these things

30:11

that I myself cannot identify. And

30:13

wouldn't it be neat if everyone did it

30:15

and it was just incorporated into standard

30:17

of care across all things and how we

30:19

dealt with our mental health and wellness, you know,

30:21

all the above. Is

30:22

there anything people can do if they're in cognitive

30:24

decline? Or is it just sort of like, well, I've

30:27

measured this. Sad

30:29

news. Alright. you know, well, I

30:31

don't don't have a a way to sell Sean,

30:33

have you guys ever seen on twenty three and

30:35

me or something like that? They they used to have, like, an

30:37

all So I guess Alzheimer's is genetic and,

30:39

like, there's like a particular type of gene that you

30:41

could have that increases the likelihood that you're gonna

30:43

have it. And twenty three in me used to

30:45

do this thing, where they said, alright, you

30:48

have it. But before we could even tell you if you have it,

30:50

you have to sign this paperwork saying you're not gonna assume this

30:52

is a diagnosis and you can't flip

30:54

out. Well, I have it. And then, like, I did flip out.

30:56

And then they eventually removed that. I believe I

30:58

don't think they have it anymore because they said people were just

31:00

flipping out too much and one of the

31:02

reasons they removed it is they tell you that they you

31:04

have this and they're like, good luck.

31:06

Like, maybe put, like, frames. Like,

31:09

they're like, there's all these, like, I don't know if they said this, but, like, people were,

31:11

like, if you, like, have frames of

31:13

pictures upside down and so you have to, like, work

31:15

harder to, like, figure out who's in the picture, that's

31:17

gonna, like, help you, like, get a stronger

31:19

Bryan. But in general, when I was researching,

31:21

I was like, oh shit, I have this gene. We'll have to do it.

31:23

People were like, good luck. just like

31:25

I guess hopefully you'll be alright. But

31:27

there wasn't like that many things. So, yeah,

31:29

what what can you actually fix

31:32

any of these things? So we

31:34

are accustomed to idea of society having

31:36

engineering standards. So

31:37

we know that when we buy an appliance,

31:39

it's going to fit through our front

31:42

door. we don't have

31:42

to go by the right front door. Look at the dimensions of

31:44

the website. Like, it's just gonna fit or not because

31:46

we know that the

31:47

door size a standard, the appliance size a

31:49

standard, it can be moved into my house.

31:52

That's true for everything we you know, so many

31:54

things we do in life. We just know these

31:56

standards. When

31:56

we agree,

31:57

we build societies, we have

31:59

no

31:59

millions of invisible

32:02

standards. We have very

32:04

few standards about our brains

32:06

because we can't measure it. we

32:07

know that the timing that's appropriate for green

32:09

light, red yellow light and red light on lights

32:11

because we know the reaction time of humans to

32:14

lights. We know breaking power. We

32:16

know people stop times. So when

32:18

we

32:18

do have data, we can actually

32:20

determine that. We

32:21

do not have engineering standards

32:23

around

32:25

the brain. depression,

32:26

anxiety, often decline because we have

32:28

no measurement. And so

32:30

fundamentally, the way to

32:33

how could

32:33

we actually

32:36

create a

32:36

step change function change in the world and how we

32:38

deal with our minds? You

32:40

begin with measurement. And once

32:42

you have numbers, science begins with numbers and

32:45

counting. And then ecosystems form around

32:47

that. So genetics, I think, is

32:49

is kind of like that. It's not as numerical as

32:51

what the brain measurement could be, but that was

32:53

a fundamental thing is if you give everyone

32:56

the numbers, you get an opportunity to

32:58

build solutions around

33:00

those problems.

33:01

So this blueprint, your

33:04

your your blog, I don't know what you're calling

33:06

your experiment, It's pretty wild because, you know,

33:08

I saw what you used to look like.

33:10

You weren't bad looking, but you definitely were

33:13

thicker than you are now. Like, your

33:15

jawline is like crazy cut right now. And,

33:17

like, you just look way different than you used to

33:19

do. I mean, it's pretty fascinating. And, you know, Bryan Braintree

33:21

is amazing. You've built something amazing.

33:23

this blueprint thing is, like, way crazier and

33:25

and unique and odd, and it's awesome.

33:27

And, like, I've read it and you're

33:29

basically, if I remember correctly.

33:32

Like, I've been following it for a bunch of months

33:34

and you you do regular updates. And at

33:36

first, you were I think you got down to, like,

33:38

six percent body fat and you're, like, Okay.

33:40

I think six percent is a little bit

33:42

too low. Let's go to seven and a half percent.

33:44

And then you're also like eating this like

33:46

and nutty pudding, I think you called it. So you have

33:48

a vegan diet and you're like just eating, like,

33:51

nuts and, like, tons of vitamins and,

33:53

like, what appears to be not

33:55

tasty, boring food. Like, you've gone

33:57

all in and the the premise behind

33:59

this is I think you had this blog post that said, like,

34:01

late night Brian no longer gets to make decisions

34:03

or something like you know, you're you're you're at

34:05

home at night and you're hungry and you just would go and

34:07

snack and eat bad food and you're like, I don't know I'm no longer

34:09

letting that guy make any decisions. He

34:11

he no longer has say. We're letting

34:13

experimental brine make the decisions from now on. This thing's crazy,

34:15

man. What? Why are you doing

34:17

this? And what have

34:19

you found to be actually meaningful versus

34:22

not meaningful? And by the way though, you're

34:24

doing you're doing the knees over

34:26

toes guy. thing. I noticed. You're, like, walking backwards. You're doing the

34:28

tipialis raises. This guy was onto

34:30

something. You're doing it. It looked

34:32

like, I

34:34

am. Yeah. I mean, so so blueprint for me, this goes back

34:36

to the age of twenty one.

34:38

And to me, this is the

34:40

best answer I've ever come

34:42

up with my life. If

34:45

you

34:45

bait if you pose a question,

34:47

how can we

34:47

imagine the human race

34:49

and

34:49

intelligence generally

34:52

surviving

34:52

itself and thriving. Like, what is

34:54

our plan

34:55

as a species

34:58

to thrive?

34:58

blueprint

34:59

to me is the best idea

35:01

I've ever come up come up with and the most practical

35:03

idea I've ever come up with to address that. And

35:05

so

35:05

from the outside perspective, it appears

35:08

to be health and wellness and anti aging and

35:10

whatnot. That's all true. But really,

35:12

it's a

35:13

philosophical endeavor and the future

35:15

of intelligence. And so

35:18

the way this I this began in from

35:21

a basically, I had a problem

35:23

of overeating every day. Every night

35:25

at seven PM,

35:27

I would

35:27

overeat. I'd rather have a

35:29

second serving for dinner or a third

35:31

serving or have desserts

35:33

or do something that I would consider to be

35:35

self harm. Like eating too much food, the wrong food, and it was just

35:38

causing

35:38

bad things to me. I couldn't sleep well.

35:40

It was I was overweight, like, all the

35:42

above. And

35:44

so I tried everything to fix it and I couldn't. And

35:46

so I playfully said I'm going to

35:49

fire evening Brian because

35:50

Bryan brine

35:52

who wakes up in the morning, he exercises. He does really well

35:54

eating, staying with lunch brine. But

35:56

this five PM, ten PM brine,

35:58

like, Bryan, he

35:59

at PayPal? he's

36:01

always making the

36:03

wrong choice. Like, I

36:05

could absolutely rely upon him to make the

36:07

wrong choice. And he always had an

36:09

infinite number of reasons on why

36:12

today was okay to

36:14

do

36:14

the thing. And so I was like, you know

36:15

what? I'm having it. Like, he's done.

36:17

He's absolutely out And so I played through

36:19

with this podcast of, like, all Brian's got together. We had

36:20

a discussion when I Brian, even Brian, you're making this awful. And

36:23

so I just I revoked an

36:25

authority from five PM to

36:27

ten PM to eight. And so

36:29

what started off is, like, this playful thing now turned into

36:31

what I'm what I

36:32

basically have done to my my

36:35

entire system

36:36

is

36:38

now

36:38

only ate

36:40

what

36:41

my body

36:44

asks for according

36:45

to data and science. Have you had any splurges since you've started this? And

36:47

do you ever intend to do that?

36:49

Have had

36:51

any

36:51

fractions? Yes. although this is I

36:53

think this is I think

36:55

this is the most interesting part

36:58

of the entire thing. So

36:59

just to be clear, the

37:01

starting point. This is a big deviation from

37:03

how society is structured right now. Right

37:06

now, our

37:07

minds

37:09

have unquestioned authority.

37:12

in deciding what we eat. So if you think about your

37:14

daily life, you go to the store and you

37:16

walk down aisles, you're like, yeah, maybe this, maybe

37:18

that. You decide how much you

37:20

put on your plate, you decide if you go to

37:22

a restaurant, you're presenter at the menu, you decide

37:24

if you're going to

37:25

have a pizza party, you decide if you're

37:27

going to Doritos, Like,

37:28

you're making these decisions all the time. And it's a combination of how

37:31

you feel what you want. Like, you know, that you're

37:33

trying to be whatever, but you're basically

37:35

giving your mind

37:37

unquestioned authority to do it.

37:40

Blueprint

37:40

flips that and it says

37:42

my mind has zero

37:44

you what already authority,

37:45

my body has a hundred

37:48

measurement of my heart

37:48

and liver and lungs and

37:51

DNA methylation patterns. It directly

37:53

asks for

37:53

what it

37:56

wants. data, and

37:57

I can never override it. And

37:58

so in this idea,

38:00

so the

38:00

the thought experiment is, if

38:03

you could achieve

38:04

you could achieve health

38:06

and maintain perfect health. But

38:08

it but it required you to

38:10

accept basically

38:11

what an algorithm is doing to deliver

38:13

what you eat and when

38:15

you eat. do it? And

38:16

then in that

38:17

hot experiment, Sam,

38:18

and I've had this conversation

38:20

hundreds of times now, the

38:22

reaction people have is almost

38:25

this response. And their conscious

38:27

mind panics. And it

38:30

it's, like,

38:30

I I see it like a computer screen

38:33

scrolling that by infant number of questions. But, like,

38:35

what if Cheetos, pizza, party, seven to eight, like,

38:38

whatever. And then it like,

38:39

the mind is

38:42

panicking or

38:42

the contemplation of loss of control, that it

38:45

can't do the things, that

38:46

it thinks, that the

38:49

deadline says, the only

38:50

way I can be happy in existence is if I still

38:53

get to choose what I do

38:54

when I do it and the mind cannot

38:56

get over

38:56

it. They cannot just say,

38:59

whole tight. Like,

39:00

is it poly let me just

39:02

contemplate.

39:02

Is it possible that

39:04

I am a

39:05

self harm machine?

39:08

I cannot stop myself from committing self harm. I probably will never

39:10

be able to do it.

39:11

And if I keep on doing this, it's probably

39:13

gonna lead to a

39:16

predictable outcome. And so

39:17

it's such interesting interaction of rolling through this

39:19

thing of and I think it's really on

39:21

par if you say,

39:22

like, one of the major

39:25

things that have impacted humanity of is the earth the center

39:27

of the universe? Or, you know,

39:30

is

39:30

there an evolutionary force

39:32

creating all things on earth I

39:34

think this one could be on of

39:36

a

39:37

societal understanding that our

39:39

unquestioned granting of authority to our

39:42

conscious minds.

39:44

is at the

39:44

root of all of our problems

39:46

in society. And so the contemplation

39:48

here

39:48

is, if if I imagine this, could

39:52

I stop self harm from

39:54

happening inside of Brian?

39:55

Because

39:56

just like there's wars going on there's

39:58

all these tribal factions in

39:59

the world, same thing has gone inside

40:02

of me with my own body and my cravings and whatever else, I've

40:04

achieved goal alignment within

40:05

myself on

40:08

this program. And

40:09

so that's that's really what this whole thing is

40:11

about is is trying to

40:13

think through how could

40:14

I achieve goal alignment. And we hear

40:17

a lot about AI goal alignment humans and back in

40:19

an essential threat that I think the more interesting

40:21

starting point is not for me to look on the

40:23

other side of my eyeballs and say, let me find everyone

40:25

else who's got a problem in

40:27

the world. let me look at myself and say, what

40:29

is my own internal chaos and

40:31

war? And can I even try to resolve

40:33

conflict within myself? there's

40:35

a there's a part of me that's like, wow,

40:37

this is this is incredible. I'm

40:40

going to the blueprint site

40:42

looking at the the routine. I'm looking at the photo. I mean, you're completely

40:44

shredded. This is amazing. So there's part of this, like,

40:46

wow. This is incredible. And then there's a part of me

40:48

that's, like, you're doing the

40:50

thing a little bit where it's like, is this

40:52

mayo? No. He's calling it aioli or it's

40:54

like, oh, wow. This is not only just great

40:56

for your health. This

40:58

is transcendence. for the race in the society and I'm like, okay. Maybe

41:00

I could see how that's true, but it it I mean, it does

41:02

seem like you're not actually it's not that your

41:04

body's deciding your brain has decided

41:06

I'm gonna use data about what my body

41:08

wants instead of impulse, you know,

41:10

whatever my impulse driven, you know, brain was

41:12

trying to do before. But like, I guess regardless,

41:15

I look at I'm like, this is amazing, but man, you know,

41:18

this looks like a full

41:20

time PHA full

41:22

time effort plus Phd

41:24

level intelligence, plus a bunch of money to

41:26

be able to do this. What have you just said

41:28

his cost, by the way, his cost I think, say, like, three

41:31

grand a month. Like, it's not, like Well, I think it's three grand a month, but it's also, like,

41:33

the mental energy that you would have to put towards doing this

41:35

is, like, you know, the the real cost.

41:37

So but but

41:39

you did it in service of of other people too. So, like,

41:41

you know, what is the eighty twenty? What have you

41:44

discovered have been the the

41:46

highest leverage you know, changes. I know

41:48

it's in this, but say it out loud because not

41:50

everyone's gonna read the whole thing. So, like, what are

41:52

the the highest leverage changes that you

41:54

were able to make during this experiment? The

41:56

first shot

41:56

on this, maybe just a reflection. Why

41:58

is it

41:59

in

41:59

society?

42:01

Do we

42:03

the accept? this

42:04

ferocious system to invite everyone to

42:06

commit

42:06

self harm? Like, when you

42:08

walk into the

42:09

grocery store, I mean,

42:11

it is violence.

42:12

issue from violence

42:14

I'll outright violence through the representation

42:16

of advertising and ingredients and

42:18

sugar and you're in there and

42:20

you're supposed to be on on

42:23

equal footing with that. Like, no way we're outmatched. And the

42:26

same thing when we're sized up against

42:28

algorithms, it's a totally unfair match

42:30

in society we just

42:32

gleefully allow the self

42:34

harm. And so the individual is pitted

42:36

against algorithms and

42:38

capitalism

42:38

like good luck individual.

42:41

on trying

42:41

to keep your shit together. And so it's just

42:44

it's

42:44

an unfair thing, and I think it's a

42:46

it's just bad for everyone to

42:48

be in this game. in of, like,

42:50

the basics for people, it's really

42:52

understanding that trying to

42:54

win this game with willpower

42:57

is a

42:58

losing game. you yourself

43:00

in a situation where you

43:02

have option a and option b,

43:04

you're probably

43:05

going to lose fifty

43:07

percent of time or more. And that's

43:09

the whole thing I've been trying to a

43:11

blueprint is yes. It's expensive right

43:13

now. Yes.

43:14

Like, it's difficult. this always

43:15

happens with innovation. It's always

43:18

expensive and accessible and then time it gets

43:20

better. And that's why I openly blog

43:22

about all the things I'm doing is I'm

43:24

trying to get

43:24

this out so others upon think the most

43:27

important thing

43:28

that someone

43:30

can

43:30

do to win here

43:32

would

43:32

be to accept basic principle that it's

43:35

a system

43:35

that drives what you eat.

43:38

It's not

43:39

your decision making. But but what

43:41

about the the the, like, the specific true are

43:44

there any, like, truths or any, like,

43:46

hypotheses that you believe to be

43:48

true, like, for, you know, you're, like,

43:50

well, I even though you said you did a great analogy with the door frame, how

43:52

it's standard, and how bodies aren't necessarily

43:54

like that. But, like, has going

43:56

vegan, like, made a huge difference to you? Is there

43:58

anything about,

44:00

like, for example, a lot of us sit at chairs, you know,

44:02

eighty hours a week, staring at screens, and

44:04

we work really hard. Is there any, like, really

44:06

It's actually thirty hours a week.

44:10

doing this whole interview. Yeah.

44:12

Are you like, well, you know, like, thirty

44:14

hours is I I think in the what's the

44:17

the Israeli guy, he wrote the book, homo sapiens. In

44:19

one of his books, he was like, you know, like,

44:21

hunter and gatherers worked only thirty hours a week, and

44:23

that kinda seems like an ideal number.

44:25

Is there any Sapiens? No homo. Okay?

44:28

My bad. My bad. I'm

44:30

inclusive. So yeah. Is there

44:33

any, like, is there any that that you've discovered for

44:35

you that, you know, it maybe is not right

44:37

for everyone else. Yeah.

44:39

yeah I started

44:40

I got my pilot license several years

44:43

ago. And

44:44

in doing so, I was

44:45

assessing the risk of

44:47

death.

44:48

And one of

44:49

the stats that that stood out

44:51

to me was that over seventy

44:54

percent of

44:54

incidents in aviation

44:56

were

44:57

attributable to

45:00

amateur pilots. And so

45:00

while I went through the certification of every plane I flew, I was

45:02

typewriter in every plane and, you know, whatnot,

45:05

I refused to fly alone. because

45:07

I knew the risk of

45:10

error was just the math was there.

45:12

The stats were there. The same is

45:14

true with health and

45:16

wellness. I tried to do this on my own, you know, almost like

45:18

going around

45:18

this little bag, listening to

45:21

podcasts, reading books, reading

45:24

literature, and try to put little gems of insight into my bag and

45:26

try to piece together my

45:27

own protocol. It's

45:29

the same as trying

45:31

to airplane

45:32

by myself. Even

45:33

though I study it, I get typed in

45:36

it, my error rate just gonna be

45:37

very high.

45:39

And so And

45:41

then three is that the the value here in this conversation would

45:43

not be somebody feeling motivated

45:45

in this moment of doing

45:47

something good because tomorrow they're

45:50

going to fail. And it's also the value here

45:52

if not debating is a

45:54

vegan diet better than a carnivore diet.

45:57

To me, the the real

45:58

essence of this conversation, the only

45:59

way this conversation can be a value besides

46:02

of all the chatter went around the world of every you know,

46:04

everyone else is talking about this

46:06

is, one, Is

46:06

there a engineered

46:08

solution that actually solves

46:10

this from a certain perspective?

46:14

two, can

46:14

you do so with data? It

46:16

doesn't do anyone any

46:17

good to debate is carnivore better

46:19

than bacon. It's a

46:22

meaningless conversation.

46:23

data is the

46:24

only thing that matters. And so that's

46:26

why I publish all my data is,

46:28

like, I I mean, I am

46:30

vegan for ethical and moral reasons.

46:32

but I'm

46:32

not vegan because I think it's it's you know, I

46:35

didn't yeah. At Labor abstract, we looked at

46:37

the data. We're agnostic to these

46:40

inputs. And so that's really what I'm

46:41

trying to say. This is not a health and wellness gig. This is

46:43

not a diet trend. It is really trying to

46:45

get the structural formation of what it means

46:47

to be human our

46:50

relationship with food, our relationship with

46:51

happiness and and, you know, like, how we structure

46:54

our lives. And it's also trying to say,

46:55

let's get past

46:58

these silly Bryan debates

47:00

at these layers

47:01

of obstruction which are meaningless and they

47:03

just confuse everyone because then people immediately say,

47:05

first, they say eggs are bad for

47:07

you, then they're good for you. No one knows, and

47:09

they just stop at that point. When

47:11

a

47:11

reality, there are more right answers than wrong

47:14

in terms of doing this in a

47:16

methodical way. You know, before

47:17

we started recording, Sean was just like

47:19

gushing about how, like, Jack and ripped you are and

47:21

how he thought you

47:24

looked great. Is it mostly are you getting any more

47:26

attention from women? Or is it all just guys

47:28

like Sean or just like

47:30

high quality? because whenever

47:32

I whenever I get in

47:34

shape, I'm like, oh yeah, my wife should've loved

47:36

this. And

47:38

she's like, I guess you look alright.

47:40

It's always dude. It's holy men. I I

47:42

think Sam,

47:43

I would say the the

47:46

person

47:46

most happiest is

47:48

me.

47:48

You know, like,

47:50

I I

47:51

had terribly

47:54

complicated emotions looking

47:55

at myself in

47:56

my worst years. It

47:58

just was so

47:59

I felt so much shame and

48:02

guilt and lack

48:04

of respect. because I just felt out of control and

48:06

powerless.

48:06

And now

48:08

when I look at myself, I have

48:10

such positive emotions.

48:13

that I'm

48:13

stable, that things

48:15

are reliable, that I trust

48:17

myself. Yeah. I I trust

48:19

the systems that are built.

48:21

It is trans form my relationship with myself. It transforms what I

48:23

think about, what I can become as a person, the

48:26

relationships I have. So it just it's hard

48:28

to articulate how

48:30

significant the a psychological shift has

48:32

been for me and my own

48:34

understanding, my own

48:35

identity. Wow. You just

48:37

gave

48:37

a really great answer to a really

48:39

dope question. That was amazing. I'm glad you did that

48:41

because we set you up with sort of a

48:43

goofy question and and I think you said something really

48:45

profound there. I wanted

48:48

to ask you you said you said something like it's a bit of a

48:50

cliffhanger. You were like, you know, willpower is not the

48:52

answer. You said, you know, the the the good

48:54

thing that could come off this is not oh, you listen

48:56

to spot are and you're

48:58

motivated to go, you know,

49:00

go eat two pounds of veggies tomorrow

49:02

because, you know, you'll revert and you're

49:04

up against this, you know, the

49:06

grocery store is this sugar casino,

49:08

basically. And then, you know, your

49:10

all your social media is just this, like, algorithm designed

49:12

to to hook you and, you know, you are

49:14

sort of Yeah. David, first of all,

49:16

I guess, bad analogy. David, one. But, like, you

49:18

know, you are powerless compared to the

49:20

the onslaught that's coming at you trying trying to

49:22

get you to make a certain decision. And,

49:25

you know, do you but you didn't quite say you're like, you know, there's a system. But

49:27

if okay. If I take that, I'm like,

49:29

tomorrow, I wake up. Brian's

49:31

gone. I'm like, alright. Today is about a system.

49:34

And I'm gonna be like, what the fuck was he

49:36

talking about? What's the system? What am I

49:38

supposed to do? that's where I would

49:40

stop. So I wanna make sure we don't leave it at

49:42

that. What would you say is is

49:44

the approach that you advocate

49:46

for? Did you say it's the data?

49:48

Is it oh, I should begin tracking certain markers and that's the

49:50

step to take and then let my own

49:52

intuition ride. Is it is it I

49:54

gotta fire evening evening, Sean? because I

49:56

had the same I have the same problem

49:58

now that you you described you had then. What

49:59

do you what would you say is the

50:02

actionable way forward that that sort

50:04

of is the sustainable

50:06

successful path? Yep. I I say

50:08

three things. One, fire

50:10

the

50:10

worst version of yourself. So

50:12

whatever you do, whatever it

50:15

is, like, whatever time However, where

50:17

the circumstances are, identify that

50:19

person and

50:21

fire

50:21

him. They'll be successful without one act.

50:23

Step number

50:26

two, is

50:26

make a firm commitment on one step towards

50:28

the system. So for example, for me,

50:31

that's calories.

50:31

I eat one thousand

50:33

nine hundred and seventy

50:35

seven calories per day, that's

50:37

it.

50:38

Not anymore. And that

50:39

is my absolute budget, and I

50:41

can't like over it. And so set

50:43

a firm boundary that that's what you're going to do and you're gonna stick with

50:45

it. And then three is you can

50:47

start refining the details of what those calories are

50:49

and when you

50:52

eat it, you wanna pack

50:54

more nutrition in over time, but

50:55

just acknowledge

50:58

knowledge that you yourself

51:00

are powered us to

51:02

win in

51:02

a in a moment by a moment

51:05

will power a game. and structurally

51:07

set up the path to win. Find the worst version of yourself

51:09

to get that muscle

51:11

to build, set very clear

51:12

boundaries and then you

51:13

can you

51:16

can refine. don't worry about taking on the whole thing all at once.

51:18

They're just this baby step. And then you'll build this

51:19

muscle. Like, my seventeen year

51:22

old

51:23

is he he

51:25

does the identical things I

51:27

do. And,

51:28

you know, Sam, you came back here, like, how many

51:30

times have you made interactions? And, like, you know,

51:32

so he went through this whole

51:34

thing of how many times did he have to make

51:35

the error of eating too much or making

51:38

an

51:38

exception or breaking the protocol or

51:42

whatever And

51:42

it was something like, I don't know. I I forget what we talked about. It was, like, something in

51:44

the thirties range. You know, where I in

51:47

the morning, he was, like, dad, I

51:50

felt like, fine. Fine. Right? Like but he finally, to the

51:52

same point, where I did where you

51:54

can get to that moment. and

51:57

you're

51:57

tempted to do something and you can model

51:59

out exactly what how it's going to feel

52:02

to do that thing and you can model out

52:04

exactly what it's gonna feel like after you've done

52:06

that thing, you can model out your

52:08

sleep and you can model out your next morning and how you feel about yourself. And pretty soon,

52:10

the simulation becomes so clear

52:13

in your mind. You're like,

52:15

yeah, no. Like, there's nothing

52:17

in that series of events where

52:19

I win. Like,

52:20

literally nowhere, why am I

52:21

going to do it? And

52:23

then it just becomes a point where

52:25

it's

52:25

you know, people ask me, like, do you have

52:27

cheat days and, like, no. Like, a

52:29

cheat day awful to me. It sounds like the worst feeling in

52:31

the world to be full and to be

52:34

regretful. Like, no. That's the last thing in the world I

52:36

wanna do need baby steps

52:38

and you build up your your muscles and then

52:40

they soon just become the way of

52:42

being. You're

52:43

clearly incredibly unique you're

52:45

very insightful, you're very wise, you're a

52:48

person who, like, you talk to me and I'm like, oh, man,

52:50

this guy has a lot of things

52:52

figured out. you're like very precise and you're like, I filed the data.

52:54

Were you a good manager? You think did

52:56

people were did people like working with

52:58

you and for you? Or did they find you to be

53:00

just like

53:02

challenging because you're so you you you're you're just so you're

53:05

very unique -- Yeah. -- like, hyper

53:07

rational. Yeah. I I joke my

53:09

team at Braintree but I

53:11

didn't care what they thought. I

53:13

only cared

53:14

to learn what their significant others

53:17

thought

53:17

because it's very

53:18

hard to get someone's real opinion

53:20

of you. because it's

53:21

it's difficult for someone to be

53:24

honest. But when we all know when we go home from

53:26

work and we're talking

53:27

to our syndicate and others, like, that's

53:29

the truth serum in action. You know, like, where

53:31

we really say something. And so I do

53:33

have some data where people said

53:35

on the best boss

53:37

they've ever had in their life. I'm sure other

53:40

people dislike the way I

53:41

I do certain things, but I

53:43

certainly

53:44

I care

53:46

deeply about

53:47

being a

53:49

high

53:50

value person

53:52

in these people's lives.

53:54

And

53:54

so not only, you know, a good steward of the business, but

53:57

creating an environment where they

53:59

become their

53:59

best selves. Was

54:02

that

54:02

a learned behavior? But was that like a learned behavior? Like, were you

54:04

like, well, if I treat people right, I'm gonna get my

54:06

outcome and or was it just like you was

54:09

this like is this how you

54:11

are raised like, what what motivated that? Yeah. It just feels like the right

54:13

way to do things. I mean, like, if if you think

54:15

about, like, more structurally in

54:18

society,

54:18

we accept this exchange.

54:20

of

54:21

spending our life

54:23

points for

54:24

a system of

54:26

rewards that includes

54:26

status and wealth and something

54:29

else, And I suppose

54:29

why I bring this up is I think we all know

54:32

how much money is in our bank account. We know how

54:34

much we weigh. We know how many followers,

54:36

social media followers

54:38

we have. we don't know for example our speed of

54:39

aging. Like, how fast are you aging in this

54:42

moment? And if you had

54:43

aging eighteen points

54:46

points, like

54:46

your bank account, would you spend them a certain way?

54:48

And so what I'm saying is

54:50

we have a fundamentally accepted

54:53

that we are on this decline in life. We're going to

54:55

spend our life points. We're going through the

54:57

grave. And the things that may live on

54:59

may include our reputation or, like, our

55:01

our contributions or whatever. And

55:03

I suggest now that may be the opportunity for us to

55:05

flip it. So if you say in the year twenty

55:08

twenty two, if you're looking at the

55:10

horizon of

55:10

possibilities for humanity, like, what is the

55:12

thing you can barely see, which

55:15

is barely imaginable. You

55:17

would say, basically, don't spend

55:19

your life points recklessly.

55:21

if you

55:21

can live long enough, there may be a

55:24

new wave here. It's like blueprint, I'm trying to do

55:26

two things. I'm trying to

55:27

maximally slow my rate of aging.

55:29

because entropy

55:29

is very strong, you're not gonna beat it. So I'm rate

55:32

I'm

55:32

currently aging at point seven six. So

55:34

I for every three hundred and sixty five days a

55:36

year, I

55:37

aged two hundred and seventy

55:39

seven. So I

55:40

basically get, like, October, November, December for

55:43

free. And then for the for the months I do

55:45

age, then the progress is to

55:48

reverse that aging that has

55:50

happened.

55:51

though that So that I

55:52

can be the same biological age. And so if we have

55:54

aging points, we have an age of egg count,

55:56

then society could

55:57

shift instead of us saying, we're gonna

55:59

be we're going to be a martyr

56:02

a martyr or

56:02

wealth or status

56:03

or whatever? Would it

56:04

change in that balance? And would it more be

56:06

about humans? So we become an obsessed

56:09

about what we can become the

56:11

species, not what

56:12

our technology can become. Right. And let

56:14

me

56:14

ask you, you I like a lot of

56:16

people who listen to this are entrepreneurs and I

56:19

think one of the cool things when we have somebody like

56:21

you come on versus, like, you

56:24

know, our buddy who's

56:26

doing like vending machine

56:28

arbitrage and, like, you

56:30

know, he tells a different story which is like, oh, this is

56:32

great. I got this income stream coming

56:34

in I was able to quit my job inspiring

56:36

story. This is a different one, which is

56:38

like, you know, spend your creative

56:41

and entrepreneurial energies. on things that

56:44

really matter both to you and your

56:46

lifespan as well as like, you know, it's just the

56:48

human civilization. What do you wish

56:50

people were working on? What opportunities do

56:52

you see? where you're like, man, we need more talent and brains going and

56:54

trying to solve x or this breakthrough

56:56

just happened and really nobody's

56:58

doing

56:59

y or Do you have any ideas like that

57:01

that are, like, you know, I think somebody could go do x? I do.

57:03

A lot of them, but I would say I'm

57:05

really obsessed with one. that's

57:07

goal alignment or

57:10

cooperation. At at

57:11

the basis of everything that

57:13

exists on planet earth,

57:15

there's

57:15

a singular question to

57:18

play.

57:18

Can't it cooperate? And

57:19

so this blueprint thing, this

57:21

question is, can I bring world peace to

57:24

Brian in my body? The answer is

57:26

yes,

57:26

I did. Now my mind

57:28

is is

57:28

a whole another thing. Right? The negative

57:32

self talk Like, all the stuff that goes on in my brain, it's an entirely

57:34

different project. But Blueprint is

57:36

applicable to climate change. It's the

57:38

same

57:38

thing if we

57:39

were to measure the world with millions of

57:42

data points and let the

57:44

Earth speak, and then

57:45

we work within

57:48

those constraints. that's the solution

57:49

for how we can coexist with a healthy planet.

57:51

Versus right now, our minds

57:54

overrun the

57:56

planet we do what we want, when we want, and how we want, and it

57:58

comes at the expense of our planet. So just like we're

58:00

committing self harm to ourselves, we're

58:02

committing harm to the earth. likely

58:06

it's the same problem.

58:08

As to be if you

58:09

could think about and go alignment

58:10

within ourselves between each

58:12

other with planet Earth and with AI,

58:15

It's

58:16

a gigantic computational

58:18

goal alignment problem. And

58:20

so the idea,

58:21

like, this AI alignment problem we have we've

58:23

talked about now like, between AI

58:25

and humans, like, what? Like, don't have go alignment within ourselves,

58:28

let alone between humans. And then humans in

58:30

AI, it's it's kind of a

58:32

crazy notion.

58:34

then, you know, like, if you look

58:36

at the number of disconnects on that entire stream, and the

58:38

starting point

58:39

in most people's assumptions

58:42

is, Let me start with what I can see

58:44

and how I can change people's behavior person

58:46

looking in. And so

58:47

I'd say, yes, I have ideas that

58:50

none of them matter. Because

58:51

unless we can solve

58:54

cooperation, what is it that we have

58:55

to look forward to as a

58:57

species? So what's an

58:58

example of that you you talked

59:00

about basically, like, goal alignment first with your body.

59:03

Right? And you were able to solve PayPal, and

59:05

blueprint is a good example. what's

59:07

another example of how you take this idea of cooperation or goal alignment? And

59:09

what would be, like, a

59:11

more specific, like,

59:14

point of attack or or, like, product or service or whatever

59:16

that would be created

59:18

along those lines? I mean,

59:21

the brain. Like, so I would love to tackle my

59:23

brain next, and that's what kernel is. If I have this

59:25

device and I can measure my brain, if you

59:27

think about it in, like,

59:29

what we eat today is dietary input to our bodies.

59:31

And you think about what

59:32

is my diet for my brain? Like, the

59:34

news sources,

59:35

the social media sources, my

59:37

friends, my environment, we

59:39

have no idea what's happening. We don't

59:41

we haven't we haven't we haven't measured.

59:43

And so

59:44

is it possible

59:44

that we basically eat ninety percent junk

59:47

food in a given day to

59:49

our brains because that's

59:50

just waste society is structured. And so

59:52

I'd love to address that of getting

59:54

the baseline of where my brain And

59:56

then more broadly, I've been talking to several people who PayPal

59:59

math and

59:59

computational methodologies to try

1:00:02

to

1:00:03

figure out are there mathematical

1:00:06

approaches? In the same way that John Nash came up with,

1:00:08

you know, game theory, are there

1:00:10

mathematical

1:00:10

approaches to think about

1:00:13

how

1:00:13

we might solve this between humans between

1:00:15

humans and AI, between the human AI and

1:00:17

the planet. And so, you

1:00:18

know, you know, I can do this with my body. It's

1:00:20

a it's a pretty straightforward thing to

1:00:23

do now, but it's

1:00:24

just gonna get more complicated than more

1:00:26

agents you have in the game. Man, you so

1:00:28

I've, like, worked with Tim Ferriss in the

1:00:30

past and, like, I remember I would ask him. Like, we would just an example is he we'd

1:00:33

be walking our dogs together and I'd be like, oh, Tim,

1:00:35

that's a cool dog leash. And he'd be like, oh, this dog leash.

1:00:37

You know, the reason it's interesting is made

1:00:39

of horse's hair, which is good for the dog, for this reason and

1:00:42

that reason. I found it in Japan. Then we

1:00:44

have, like, biology on the podcast, you

1:00:46

know, and he was, like, well, he would go through

1:00:48

these, like, we were just asking, like,

1:00:50

when he had for breakfast and he would just give us this, like, complex answer and it was actually pretty

1:00:52

profound. Palmer Lucky was kinda like that

1:00:54

too. And

1:00:56

you are hundred percent in that same ballpark where

1:00:58

I make a stupid joke and I ask a dumb

1:01:00

question or we ask something that seems

1:01:02

straightforward and simple and you get like a

1:01:04

pretty profound answer.

1:01:06

And what's interesting is you actually do this thing that Elad does where

1:01:08

you ask them a question and most people

1:01:11

don't do this. They pause. they

1:01:14

don't they'll they'll actually not talk for, like, ten seconds and they just think. And

1:01:16

I actually I try not to interrupt because most

1:01:18

people are uncomfortable with that. One I

1:01:20

interrupted you or I or you

1:01:23

got silent. By the way, the keto good interviews,

1:01:25

you don't interrupt that. So I kind of screw that up.

1:01:27

But you, like, are really thoughtful and,

1:01:29

like, in one way, it's exhausting. because, like,

1:01:31

everything you say is, like, profound and I'm, like, thinking about

1:01:33

it. And I'm, like, well, I wanna ask you all these questions about that

1:01:35

too now and this and this. On the other

1:01:38

hand, it's refreshing. I mean, it's just enlightening.

1:01:40

You're just you're you're

1:01:42

just an interesting human and you

1:01:44

your your intensity is I

1:01:46

can see it being off putting for some people. But

1:01:48

for me, like, I've I'm I'm I'm into it. You're you're

1:01:50

just a very unique person. I I think it's like

1:01:52

really interesting to hear your perspective. Even I

1:01:54

don't think you've said anything that

1:01:57

I agree or or that I disagree with, but maybe you have.

1:01:59

And it's like, well, that's okay, but you're just like

1:02:01

an original thinker. I dig it. Thank you, Sam.

1:02:03

Appreciate that. What's a give us before we

1:02:05

go, what's one of these contraptions behind you? Give us what what is one of these interesting

1:02:07

things? Is that just that just occurring, but she If that

1:02:09

one looks like a soda stream

1:02:12

or something. a genetic

1:02:14

sequencing machine.

1:02:16

That'd be funny. Like, got me. Like, you know,

1:02:18

I've got Coke and Pepsi and Yeah.

1:02:20

I'm kinda drinking a rental

1:02:23

wine too. what's going on with me? Yeah.

1:02:26

So we I last week, like weeks

1:02:28

ago, we bought a medical

1:02:30

grade, hospital grade ultrasound machine.

1:02:33

And

1:02:33

so part of this has

1:02:35

just been buying the kind of equipment that allows us

1:02:37

to do the stuff we're trying to do. And so

1:02:39

for example, ultrasound if you look at

1:02:41

the the pyramid of measurement,

1:02:43

wearables are like part of the first

1:02:46

category and then you get to biofluids

1:02:48

like blood draws and and, you know, urine

1:02:50

and whatever else imaging is an entirely different

1:02:52

quality class. And so if you wanna get

1:02:54

really good data on on yourself, it's

1:02:56

an ultrasound

1:02:58

and MRI and, you know, life has

1:03:00

suffered internal. And so we

1:03:01

really had to build up this infrastructure. So one of

1:03:03

the reasons why this is so expensive is we've

1:03:05

basically built out, like, a

1:03:07

mini clinic hospital here with all the stuff we

1:03:09

have. It's such a lot of different outcomes. But yeah.

1:03:12

And are there, like, four dudes

1:03:13

just kind of, like,

1:03:16

that are your physicians that are monitoring you at all times? Or what's gonna

1:03:18

what's your team? What's your stack for for people

1:03:20

with with that PayPal- Yeah. -- body

1:03:24

For

1:03:24

the ultrasound, we have five sonographers.

1:03:27

So one sonographer specializes

1:03:30

in the heart.

1:03:32

One does lungs, pancreas, liver,

1:03:33

a kidney. Another one does

1:03:36

musculoskeletal. Another one does droppler

1:03:38

for the

1:03:40

brain. And so for example, I we

1:03:42

just did one of the ways to quantify working out is we're

1:03:44

using ultrasound

1:03:44

to measure tendons ligament

1:03:48

like all the component parts of my joints, ankles, knees, hips, elbows,

1:03:51

shoulders. And then we implement

1:03:53

these

1:03:53

exercise regimes and we look

1:03:55

at the changes They're like, are

1:03:57

they working to show what degree?

1:04:00

So everything

1:04:00

we do is quantified. And so

1:04:02

it's not like, oh, this thing makes me

1:04:05

feel better. feelings rarely

1:04:06

matter with anything

1:04:07

we do. And so, yeah, this

1:04:09

the hardware and the the specific team. And

1:04:11

so just like we have five sonographers to run

1:04:13

the ultrasound machine, We have

1:04:15

specialists in lung, specialists in the heart,

1:04:18

specialists in other areas. So the team is like

1:04:20

twenty five or so, maybe, you know,

1:04:22

altogether that have

1:04:23

different specialties. Man, this

1:04:24

is crazy. Sean's answer to that question is, like, I just

1:04:26

got, like, a poster of dogs playing poker,

1:04:29

one shoe, straight airpods, get a

1:04:31

couple of empty die a

1:04:33

coke, it's like We ask you.

1:04:36

It's like, oh, you mean that all comes out.

1:04:38

Actually, I don't need all this measurement. Like, if you

1:04:40

just x port my DoorDash history.

1:04:42

It'll tell you how I'm aging out. Yeah. I'm aging out. Yeah.

1:04:44

Gray out right now. fil

1:04:48

A, like, you older or younger. What

1:04:50

are your thoughts on the branch?

1:04:56

Dude, Brian, this has been awesome. Thanks for thanks

1:04:58

for coming on. We we talked about you way

1:05:00

back as like this awesome guy and it's amazing

1:05:02

to to get to meet you and hear some of the stories and

1:05:04

ask ask her questions first hand. So appreciate

1:05:06

you

1:05:06

coming on. Yeah. Hey, Kevin.

1:05:08

I feel like

1:05:09

I could ruin where to

1:05:11

know what could be what I

1:05:13

want to. I put my dog in it

1:05:15

like a day's all one of my oldest

1:05:17

travel never

1:05:20

looking

1:05:20

back.