0:00

Ryan Reynolds here here for Mint the

0:02

price of just about everything going

0:04

up during inflation, we thought

0:06

we'd bring our prices down. we'd

0:08

So to help us, we brought

0:10

in a reverse auctioneer, which

0:12

is apparently a thing. which is apparently a

0:14

wireless! unlimited, premium wireless! I had to get 30, 30,

0:16

a bit, 15, 20, 20, bit, get bucks

0:18

a month? 15 bucks a it a

0:20

try at a try .com slash slash switch. $45

0:22

upfront payment equivalent to $15 per

0:24

month. New customers on new month

0:27

plan only. Taxes and fees

0:29

extra. three-month plan only, taxes and fees extra,

0:31

speeds lower above 40 gigabytes in

0:33

wildest prediction is that by

0:35

2035 as we know will as we know,

0:37

will be obsolete. one one policy

0:39

change that would make the

0:41

world twice as rich as it

0:43

is would be it would I

0:45

truly believe that, but I don't

0:47

I truly believe that but I

0:49

don't think the world is

0:51

ready for that. By 2030

0:53

the shortage of skills will

0:56

cost governments and businesses 8.5

0:58

trillion dollars. So so what think hiring

1:00

is hard today? is be even harder in

1:02

five years. It will be even harder

1:04

in 10 years, which means that. that

1:07

there's a necessity

1:09

of different skills.

1:15

Caroline Hendricks has always been ahead

1:17

of the curve. the curve. At 16, she

1:19

became one of Estonia's youngest entrepreneurs,

1:21

later launching seven TV channels in

1:23

Northern Europe, including National Geographic and

1:25

MTV. In 2014, she

1:27

founded to to simplify global

1:30

relocation and immigration for businesses

1:32

and employees. And in 2020, the European

1:34

the European her named her

1:36

one of Europe's eight most

1:38

inspiring women. Today, Carolee Hendricks

1:40

joins us here wildest prediction to

1:42

share her bravest thoughts on

1:44

the future. Welcome to

1:46

the show, show Carolie. Happy to see

1:48

here, Tom. So let's get get stuck into

1:50

this. I'm thrilled with this one.

1:52

What is What is your wildest prediction

1:55

for the future? for the future?

1:57

My prediction is that

1:59

is that by... 2035 the passport as

2:01

we know will be obsolete. What do

2:03

you mean by the passport? You know

2:05

the tiny pants that you have to

2:08

use every time you execute a airplane

2:10

or before you go into the airplane

2:12

so let me just explain a little

2:14

bit. Very often we have those things

2:16

that just are and you don't really

2:19

question them and the the passport system

2:21

that we have today is actually originally

2:23

from the time of World War I.

2:25

So World War I, imagine, the passport

2:28

system was created, first of all it

2:30

was created by the Western Central Organization

2:32

in order to defend kind of their

2:34

own borders, right? So it was created

2:36

at the end of World War I.

2:39

And around the same time as Henry

2:41

Ford and Model T, so if you

2:43

would have looked out from your window

2:45

back then, you would have seen Model

2:47

T's roaming around. Now when you look

2:50

outside the window, do you see any

2:52

Model T's roaming around? No, and that's

2:54

not in a museum. Exactly. So you

2:56

probably see Tesla roaming around. So we

2:59

have moved ahead enormously if we look

3:01

at for example the car industry automobile

3:03

industry but the passport as it was

3:05

then is basically what we have today

3:07

and it's just not working. It's not

3:10

working on several levels and one being

3:12

just outdated in terms of technology it's

3:14

literally the same kind of pamphlet people

3:16

were carrying a century ago but there's

3:19

also another layer to it and it

3:21

is the concept of how and why.

3:23

it actually works or doesn't work to

3:25

be very frank. So as I said

3:27

it was created by a Western-centric organization.

3:30

So back then Western countries were where

3:32

you had the highly educated people. So

3:34

you have those here people in Western

3:36

countries and then they created this organization

3:39

that let's not let in those people

3:41

who are less educated. The world has

3:43

changed here. and where

3:45

we are today is

3:47

so different things.

3:50

First of all, we

3:52

are in the

3:54

biggest talent shortage in

3:56

human history. So

3:59

all countries are trying

4:01

to figure out

4:03

how to get in

4:05

skilled people. At

4:07

the same time, the

4:10

most highly educated

4:12

immigrants or migrants are

4:14

actually from the

4:16

countries with worst passports,

4:18

meaning like least

4:21

travel friendly passports. So

4:23

if you look

4:25

at today, where the

4:27

most highly educated

4:30

migrants come from, these countries

4:32

are India. China

4:34

and Philippines. You're

4:36

not saying that my piece of dead

4:38

tree with stamps made of ink,

4:40

you're not saying that that is outdated

4:42

and instead I should have like

4:44

a plastic card. You're saying that I

4:47

should have the right to get

4:49

on a plane and go to Japan

4:51

and like that's just what it

4:53

is to be a human and I

4:55

should go to that North Korea

4:57

and like, you know, I can get

5:00

a job there working in the

5:02

local communist party headquarters or something. You're

5:04

saying like complete free movement. of

5:06

people rather than passports. I'm seeing here is

5:08

the two layers that are broken.

5:10

One is the thick aspect. So

5:12

in a way, I think that

5:14

today's passport that we still use,

5:16

I mean, I travel every week

5:18

and, you know, standing in this

5:20

control, it's like you're standing with

5:22

your old National Geographic Magazine. right?

5:24

So it's just see the aspect

5:26

of the lack of technology that

5:28

doesn't work. But the other is

5:31

just the whole idea of how

5:33

and why the password system is created

5:35

the way it is. And why,

5:37

and today it is just not

5:39

working. So basically, We're about travel

5:41

as well as work or we

5:43

talking about So

5:45

if we talk about everything. So in

5:47

that sense, and in that sense, I

5:49

think that driving force for the change

5:51

is actually work. And it's connected to

5:53

what I mentioned before that we are

5:55

in the biggest talent shortage in human

5:57

history. So on one hand, countries based

6:00

all the movement on

6:02

this system system

6:04

where you say had

6:06

passport, America, good passport, and you

6:08

and you just label

6:11

people based on

6:13

where they were were accidentally

6:15

born. Which just doesn't make

6:17

sense. It doesn't make sense for

6:19

the people, but I think

6:21

the good news is I doesn't

6:23

make sense for the countries anymore

6:25

make sense for the that's what we

6:28

are seeing as my and that's what we

6:30

we are navigating in and the

6:32

private sector and the private policy

6:34

of immigration. What we see is

6:36

that there's a shift starting

6:38

to happen and the shift is

6:41

that countries are trying to

6:43

identify trying of people of people not based

6:45

on where they were where they were

6:47

accidentally but for for example, what skill

6:49

sets they have. have. And why why

6:51

this is happening is because the base system

6:53

of system of the passport that

6:55

was created a century ago And just

6:58

not working. And that's my prediction

7:00

is that the shift now, the shift

7:02

is starting to happen or has

7:04

started to happen, but by 2035.

7:06

know it will not we know it

7:08

will not work. It will be

7:10

next in the box in the old National year

7:12

old National Geographic magazine. magazine. It's It's

7:14

definitely quite easy to go through some

7:16

of the in the world in the world

7:18

right now and how this solves them.

7:21

You can definitely look at look populations. You

7:24

can definitely look at at sort

7:26

participation rates. rates. So you can of an

7:28

environment where this seems like

7:30

a good solution. a good solution. But how

7:32

would it work in practicality? Does

7:35

every country have to sign

7:37

up for this? for this? You know, the sort

7:39

to force people to let

7:41

anyone in. in. sort of different tiers where, you know,

7:43

maybe South Americans can all go can all go South

7:45

South America a bit like they can now, now. You

7:47

know, how's it gonna to happen? Definitely needs

7:50

to be a new agreement, but maybe

7:52

we can look at some of the

7:54

things that already have been have been working in a

7:56

a smaller scale can be can be actually

7:58

replicated into something bigger global. So, let's look,

8:01

I originally come from Estonia,

8:03

which is the most digital

8:05

country in the world. In

8:07

Estonia, there's a platform which

8:09

is like the backbone of

8:11

the whole digital identity. Every

8:13

human in Estonia, every person

8:15

gets a digital identity and

8:17

that identity talks to each,

8:19

whatever, public or private system.

8:21

So, doing anything from like,

8:23

let's say, doing your taxes

8:25

or... participating in elections is

8:27

as simple as going to

8:30

your Instagram. Literally. And it

8:32

works because there's a central

8:34

digital identity that connects to

8:36

any database. So this is

8:38

now one country. On the

8:40

other level, I think one

8:42

of the things and examples

8:44

that we saw from the

8:46

European side was actually a

8:48

pretty, it came from a

8:50

necessity to find, it was

8:52

when the pandemic started. So

8:54

remember, when you traveled ever,

8:57

you traveled around EU, you

8:59

needed to have a COVID

9:01

pass. You needed to have

9:03

a QR code that basically,

9:05

again, one system, one way

9:07

to identify that, are you

9:09

eligible to enter or are

9:11

you not eligible to enter?

9:13

And now, actually, another good

9:15

example is that Finland actually

9:17

started in 2023. So last

9:19

year, a pilot project of

9:21

making a smartphone paste. passport.

9:23

So basically eliminating the actual

9:26

physical passport and making this

9:28

fully smartphone base and they

9:30

are they are now experimenting

9:32

with different countries and that

9:34

and yes in order to

9:36

get there we need to

9:38

have new agreements but those

9:40

agreements are starting to happen

9:42

and they are starting to

9:44

happen because one actually to

9:46

think of the same pamphlet

9:48

that we used today. it

9:50

is not very secure. It's

9:53

not very secure. And the

9:55

whole the purpose of a

9:57

a passport,

9:59

one of the

10:01

purposes was was

10:03

to, was security, to identify whom we

10:06

letting in and don't let

10:08

in, and it is not

10:10

secure and it's not

10:12

also efficient. So what's

10:14

this the sort of ideal future

10:16

that you're looking towards, you know,

10:19

in full? in full? What what team

10:21

team wakes up doing every

10:23

morning and what we

10:25

are aspiring we are basically a

10:27

world where every human

10:29

can unleash their full potential

10:31

human can unleash their full potential anywhere without basically

10:34

dependent on where they were born.

10:36

What we aspire to do What

10:38

our technology do literally, is

10:41

literally down down

10:43

the discriminated barriers of

10:46

people. being led to move or

10:48

not to move, based on where

10:50

they were accidentally born. What we are

10:52

doing, then how this kind of, so

10:55

what we are doing

10:57

is that we are using

10:59

AI and automation to

11:01

make the whole immigration process

11:03

for employers and their

11:05

employees seamless and to means is that

11:07

when Tom, let's say Tom moves to, what

11:09

do you want to move? Tom. Do you want to

11:11

do more for friends? I want to go to Brazil. Brazil,

11:14

okay, so it's almost Brazil. So if we

11:16

would onboard you to our

11:18

platform, we would collect

11:20

over 500 data points. points on

11:23

our platform, from platform

11:25

from your different all on

11:27

our platform, all on our

11:29

platform of a with click all a button, all

11:31

the are filled, we We have all the information

11:33

we need. need. to move you to

11:35

any country in the world. world. So have

11:37

to do it once. it And after and maybe

11:39

Tom you will decide to go to

11:41

Japan. You don't have to do anything You don't

11:43

have to do anything the desire to the

11:45

We have all the information the from

11:48

this pamphlet which was just

11:50

based on where you were

11:52

based on where you were know we know

11:54

about Tom, now the countries, let's

11:56

say say and Japan they want

11:59

to get you in. because some have

12:01

skill set that they have shortage of.

12:03

So now we can identify that, okay,

12:05

Tom will get a fast track to

12:07

Japan because of your skill set, not

12:09

because you were accidentally born somewhere, but

12:11

because of your skill set. So what

12:13

we're seeing is that we are able

12:15

to start moving the, in a way,

12:17

the new. identity of international movement into

12:20

something that is much more individual versus

12:22

something that is just you were born

12:24

there that's that's the bucket you belong

12:26

to so kind of taking this discrimination

12:28

out of this concept of passport that

12:30

it has been there for over the

12:32

past century does that now clarify a

12:34

little bit more? How does the company

12:36

work at the moment? Which countries does

12:39

it operate between, for example? So we

12:41

can relocate people to over 40 different

12:43

countries already. Okay. Is Brazil one of

12:45

those? Brazil is one of them. So

12:47

basically our customers today are businesses, which

12:49

means that if your employer is our

12:51

customer and you... you would desire to

12:53

move to Brazil. So you are on

12:55

board it on the platform and within

12:58

seconds you can, we have like AI

13:00

enabled assessments which will tell you what

13:02

type of visas are possible for you,

13:04

what's the route, what's the timeline. So

13:06

basically we are using, so you don't

13:08

even have to talk to a person,

13:10

the system will tell you a lot

13:12

of information that you were asking. And

13:14

so basically that's how we work. And

13:16

then I presume there's this sort of

13:19

terrible handover where we go from a

13:21

sort of AI clever digital system to

13:23

something where you probably have to print

13:25

things out and do you know have

13:27

vaccines and get paper certificates of your

13:29

degree and all sorts of old-fashioned things

13:31

like that. In some countries we have

13:33

managed to actually create like the link

13:35

already with the system and in some

13:38

countries we still have to like the

13:40

last mile. will be you will

13:42

will get everything and

13:44

then then there's the

13:46

last mile that

13:48

the government still doesn't

13:50

work on the

13:52

digital basically not not enough

13:54

for us to push

13:56

the the information into

13:59

the system but in some

14:01

already is basically

14:03

we can push the

14:05

information from our

14:07

system to our that

14:09

so it's already happening

14:11

happening all in all

14:13

I think what what my

14:15

kind of connecting

14:18

to the prediction is

14:20

that that I think

14:22

what we're seeing there

14:24

will be a

14:26

shift happening First of

14:28

all we are moving away we are

14:30

moving away from the aspect

14:32

of discrimination in the passport

14:34

system. I think And I think

14:36

that's super exciting. That's part of the

14:39

of the work that we're doing,

14:41

trying to to that. And

14:43

the second part is just part

14:45

is just the making version of cross

14:47

-border movement, which doesn't include any

14:50

more physical passport. And

14:52

it will be much more connected

14:54

to either, you know, face recognition, iris

14:57

scan or Which will be much

14:59

more efficient and more efficient much

15:01

much more secure. Ryan Reynolds here

15:03

for I guess my Ryan Reynolds here for,

15:05

I guess, my No, no, no, no, commercial. no.

15:07

No, no, no, no, no, no, I started this

15:09

I thought I only have honestly, when I started

15:11

this, I thought I'd only have to

15:14

do I mean, of these. It is unlimited

15:16

premium wireless for $15 a month. are are

15:18

there still people paying two or three

15:20

times that much? much? I'm sorry, I

15:22

shouldn't be victim blaming be Give it a

15:24

try at here. .com at mid-Mobile.com/ you're ready. you're

15:27

ready. $45 equivalent to $15 per month,

15:29

new customers on $15 per plan new

15:31

taxes and fees extra, first above 40

15:33

plan see details. and fees

15:35

extra, speed slower above 40 gigabyte

15:37

C this sort of a that

15:39

you think can work for

15:41

everyone? for everyone? The immigration conversation

15:43

is quite interesting at the moment. the

15:46

moment. And it's also very contentious. But

15:48

we've almost got like a kind

15:50

of got system, you know, where

15:52

if you come from a very desperate

15:54

situation or if you're extremely determined, you

15:56

know, you go through processes which

15:58

are either are either of. cunning or sneaky

16:01

or illegal. And then if you're a

16:03

sort of globally in demand talent that

16:05

can point to fame or a Nobel

16:08

Prize or a Cambridge degree, then you

16:10

can probably get in on the basis

16:12

of kind of outrageous world-class skills. But

16:15

anyone's sort of normal, you know, anyone

16:17

that's sort of not fleeing war or

16:19

persecution and is a good car salesperson

16:21

or anyone that sort of works in

16:24

a hospital, but they aren't necessarily like

16:26

an in demand type of medical skill,

16:28

like like it feels like if you're

16:31

sort of normal. you're facing a much

16:33

harder circumstance, isn't it? So is this

16:35

designed for everyone? And I would say

16:38

actually the absolutely opposite, absolute opposite here.

16:40

And I think the large part why

16:42

it is like that is that the

16:44

system is inefficient. It's inefficient and which

16:47

makes the process slow. It still involves

16:49

so much of human who has its

16:51

own biases. So removing those barriers from

16:54

the system can actually... help more people.

16:56

So a few things. First of all,

16:58

what we are seeing right now as

17:01

employers around the world, hiring has never

17:03

been as hard and it will go.

17:05

So by 2030, the shortage of skills

17:07

will cost governments and businesses $8.5 trillion.

17:10

And so what if we think hiring

17:12

is hard today, it will be even

17:14

harder in five years. It will be

17:17

even harder in 10 years, which means

17:19

that there's a necessity of different skill

17:21

set and it's not only the Nobel

17:24

Prize it's much more if you look

17:26

at where the shortages are in different

17:28

countries in UK for example huge shortage

17:31

of medical workers construction workers so but

17:33

the thing is that since the system

17:35

is so outdated it makes the whole

17:37

process slow so employers are suffering and

17:40

the potential employees who could be then

17:42

working for those employers suffering and

17:44

And that's I think

17:47

the shift the shift what

17:49

countries are trying

17:51

to figure this out.

17:54

are So to I

17:56

would out so if I would

17:58

be on me on

18:00

would take down

18:03

the the borders completely and this economist

18:05

think was was 2017 said

18:07

that that one policy change

18:10

one policy change that

18:12

would make the

18:14

world twice as is that it

18:17

would it is that

18:19

it would be

18:21

open borders. I truly

18:23

believe that but

18:26

I don't that there's a shift

18:28

a shift. towards bucketing

18:30

people differently on the on the

18:33

skill And that that doesn't

18:35

mean only the high end

18:37

of people, it actually

18:39

means widening the opportunity for

18:41

bigger much crowd than it has been,

18:44

it has been, of kind

18:46

of cross -border movement has

18:48

been available before. And just

18:50

you to to know, Tom. never in

18:52

human history have people moved

18:54

as much as they do

18:56

today. as they do today. Even just in 70s

18:59

70s and 70s and 90s cross-border movement like

19:01

work travel was mainly from US

19:03

corporations to the other countries other countries

19:05

and now it's completely diversified. So

19:07

never before have the humans

19:09

moved as much as they

19:11

do today and this shift is continuing

19:13

to happen. to happen we definitely

19:16

do see see there's a you know, political

19:18

to it because if you

19:20

have a change, there's always

19:22

some people who don't like the

19:24

change. don't it doesn't but stop

19:26

the change the change there's a

19:28

necessity to change. to change of

19:31

the shortage of skills. skills skills the

19:33

world? world. It's always interesting to me

19:35

because so much of the kind of

19:37

foundations of the world seem to

19:39

be based on sort of pre sort of

19:41

criteria, criteria. You know, you know, quite often

19:43

I might do something like a

19:45

speaking engagement in Sydney I

19:48

a presentation I kind of wrote in Romania

19:50

a I also did a bit in the

19:52

airport in Dubai sort of I'm sort of

19:54

British in I live in Miami think in you

19:56

think in theory I should be paying income

19:58

tax on where that value delivered. And

20:00

I don't know whether that value was delivered

20:02

from, you know, a British university that I went

20:04

to 20 years ago, or whether I should

20:06

pay in Miami, because that's where I live, or

20:08

whether I should pay in Dubai, because that's

20:10

where I came up with the big insight. And

20:13

you realize that many of these sort of

20:15

containers just don't really work. But

20:17

at the same time to sort of

20:19

move fully to like a post digital

20:21

age where all this stuff is in

20:23

the background, you then have to start

20:25

thinking about, you know, what are nations

20:27

and what are governments and what does

20:30

this infrastructure mean and like what is

20:32

identity? And also, you

20:34

have to be sort of aware of your

20:36

own privilege as well, because I think it's

20:38

it's quite easy for sort of middle class

20:40

English people to love immigration, because you get

20:42

a great new Polish daily, and you can have

20:44

a kind of wonderful, you know, Portuguese cleaner,

20:46

and you can get great building work done

20:48

from Polish people that work harder. And it's

20:50

easy to be ignorant to the fact that

20:52

there are people that have lived in that

20:54

country that have had to learn the knowledge

20:56

to become a taxi driver that are now being

20:58

threatened. What

21:00

at the moment, what what system

21:02

in the world do you think

21:04

is the most efficient and the

21:06

sort of least bureaucratic and the most

21:08

dynamic when it comes to immigration?

21:11

So which countries are I think

21:13

the forefront? I mean, definitely I'm

21:15

biased that I just have having as

21:18

they were definitely is a great

21:20

example, because everything works there. Like

21:22

I moved to London and I

21:24

suddenly understood how well everything works

21:26

to tell them. And I said,

21:28

yeah, but I think definitely in

21:30

terms of kind of modernizing the

21:32

system, I think Finland, Finland is

21:34

a great example. They do a

21:36

lot of experiments around that. I

21:38

already mentioned the digital passport, the

21:41

way they have really moved away

21:43

from paper to digital. It has

21:45

been really impressive. But even I

21:47

mean, if I look at other

21:49

countries, even Germany has made a

21:51

lot of steps. I mean, there

21:53

are different so there are different

21:55

layers of it and maybe another

21:57

topic, but there are there there's

22:00

So So Germany has

22:02

done a lot to

22:04

actually simplify. the

22:07

the process. down down

22:09

barriers like like know, how you

22:11

know, how... it is to

22:13

get a visa, a what's

22:15

the threshold for salaries are

22:17

really, really so to get more

22:19

to get more immigrants in because they're the still

22:22

I think so high many ways

22:24

those countries like Finland, ways like

22:26

Estonia like Finland like ones who

22:28

will kind of ones who will kind

22:30

of Others are are following. if somebody

22:32

does it successfully, then others

22:35

will follow. others actually, I don't

22:37

know, tell me a I don't know, tell

22:39

me about digital There's a world There's a

22:41

world actually, this was a visa

22:43

that we created. So I

22:45

pitched it in 2016 a stadium president. And

22:47

my my prediction was that if

22:49

one country like Estonia will

22:51

do it successfully, other countries will

22:53

follow and actually and 60 countries

22:55

60 countries have had that that visa. many

22:57

of them we actually have have

23:00

And why we did that

23:02

was because was now we're talking now

23:04

we're that we saw passport was like

23:06

you were talking about just like

23:08

there was like about Texas that

23:10

there was like a in a way whole a

23:12

policy that you have you have employee

23:14

you can work for employment when

23:16

you are hired by a country, this

23:18

country based company, or you can

23:20

marry someone you you can move

23:22

as a tourist, but you can't

23:24

be anything in in between, and the in-between the

23:26

the workplace was moving. was moving. Millions of

23:28

people were working as as but

23:31

there was no policy to support

23:33

it. So now to 60 countries have

23:35

implemented it. So but it started

23:37

from the first country. the first country.

23:39

they only did it and then other countries

23:41

same we will be seeing seeing with

23:43

the of the the or just or

23:45

the concept of the concept of the

23:48

predict that Finland will be

23:50

one of Finland will be one of

23:52

pioneers in that. in that. So when you

23:54

you look to different countries at the

23:56

moment at the moment it It strikes me,

23:58

I've got moderate experience in this, the

24:00

most are pretty bureaucratic and most

24:02

are quite slow and most are

24:05

expensive and most involve lots of

24:07

hoops. You know, do you think

24:09

that's by design or is it

24:11

an ignorance to what technology can

24:13

do to improve things? That's a

24:15

really good question because I have

24:18

been in many debates with politicians.

24:20

And so I think there's one

24:22

thing and I have actually said

24:24

it out on different stages that

24:26

I want to see what country

24:29

will be the first country to

24:31

have the ministry of user experience.

24:33

Because I think if you kind

24:35

of think about the tech world,

24:37

for example, you go to Amazon

24:39

or you go to Airbnb, you

24:42

assume things work. because they very

24:44

much think of what's the design.

24:46

So somebody comes in, wants to

24:48

make a purchase, what happens then,

24:50

what's the user experience. And I

24:53

think what we're starting to slowly

24:55

see, and like I said, even

24:57

countries like Germany, there are baby

24:59

steps of trying to figure out

25:01

the user experience of somebody coming

25:03

in. So I think in that

25:06

sense, it is ignorance. And I

25:08

think also the necessity was not

25:10

there because as it is only

25:12

very recent like past decade when

25:14

the global mobility of the movement

25:17

across borders has really taken off

25:19

and today the companies who were

25:21

even not maybe would not have

25:23

been even thinking about hiring anybody

25:25

from abroad have to start thinking

25:27

about it which means the countries

25:30

have to start thinking about it.

25:32

So I think there's it is

25:34

ignorance. anxious that the government has

25:36

not been fast enough to react

25:38

to the needs of the actual

25:41

market. But it started to happen.

25:43

We're seeing that. And what's your

25:45

sort of ideal future vision? So

25:47

we've only got a few minutes

25:49

left. You know, paint to me

25:51

the sort of 2040 vision. You

25:54

know, what does it look like

25:56

to walk down the streets of

25:58

Tallinn or Lisbon? a rural

26:00

Sudan. So I think the

26:03

simplified version simplified version of the vision

26:05

is, and this is what kind

26:07

of statement as well, we want to make well, we

26:09

want to make moving to a new

26:11

country easy booking a flight. So now

26:13

when you go when you go to them and

26:15

book a flight, you how 15 years

26:17

ago it was a you went

26:19

to the agency, you filled you waited

26:21

for somebody to call. If you

26:23

look at 2035, 2040, at I

26:25

think that. I think the... The the

26:28

mobility that we see, be an

26:30

will be an enhancement, significant

26:32

enhancement of mobility, and which

26:35

means that we can embrace

26:37

can move around in those

26:39

different cultures. think we have a

26:41

lot more diversity a lot more

26:43

a lot more open lot

26:45

more about diversity.

26:48

So I think I a way way will

26:50

positively explode and that

26:53

will also enrich the

26:55

way we see life,

26:57

the way we see

26:59

humanity. and, you know, in some ways, I

27:01

learned some years ago that in UN, when

27:03

you some years ago positions,

27:05

in UN, you you work in certain

27:07

positions which says that a which says

27:09

that you are there's no country,

27:12

right? So, and I think this I think

27:14

this will be something like be

27:16

be the future where we our borders

27:18

borders will be in that way

27:21

eliminated and we have different of of

27:23

the way. way. It doesn't mean

27:25

that there will not be ways

27:27

to make countries secure, I don't

27:29

mean that, but I mean I we

27:31

use the we use the most, the best to

27:34

keep people secure at the

27:36

same time eliminate the friction

27:38

of the frostwater movement so that we that

27:40

we can actually enjoy the

27:43

world that we have. we have. I

27:45

think it's a great thing to talk

27:47

about. think one of the weird things

27:49

about the world right now is there's

27:51

some really, really contentious and big things

27:53

that are not easy. and big know, we

27:55

do have countries where the population is

27:57

dying. population We do We do have systems that

27:59

everyone everyone pays for. They're determined to keep everyone for

28:01

as live as they possibly can be to

28:03

the detriment of young people of young

28:05

have massive sort of immigration

28:08

tensions across the whole world whole

28:10

these things are really complicated

28:12

and they're really difficult and

28:14

they're really nuanced and they

28:16

involve trade really we're not

28:18

really very good at talking

28:20

about these things really not very

28:23

good at talking about bold

28:25

bold They involve involve a sense of

28:27

of change in our mindset

28:29

towards things So Carol, thank you thank

28:31

you very much for coming

28:33

on to the show the show and

28:36

to talk about some of

28:38

these things talk about some of these

28:40

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