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Massachusetts or call 1-877. I was looking for

1:24

a house and Jason when I talked to

1:26

him it seemed like he knew a lot

1:28

about what he was talking about and he

1:30

was a big help with anything I ever

1:33

needed. My first time buying a house I

1:35

didn't know what I was getting into is

1:37

a good experience. I closed actually a week

1:39

earlier than planned. Anytime I needed help

1:41

with anything or had any questions you'd

1:44

answer right away and help me learn

1:46

a lot too. I would gladly recommend anybody. Y'all

1:48

were a big help and if I ever go

1:50

to buy a house again I'd with y' My

1:52

name is Jacob Stimmel and

1:54

I got into my first

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home with the team is

1:59

Save it conrad.com. Conrad dot

2:01

com. Hey, it's Conrad

2:03

Thompson and you're listening

2:05

to my world. And

2:07

of course we couldn't

2:09

do it without the

2:12

Hall of Famer,

2:14

the greatest professional

2:16

wrestler of all time,

2:18

your friend in mind, your

2:20

friend in mind, double Jay

2:23

Jeff Jarrett, how are you man?

2:25

Oh Conrad Thompson, how are we doing?

2:27

I'm glad this is a wrestling podcast.

2:30

We will not be talking about

2:32

college sports under any condition.

2:34

Glad to say that you're back

2:36

from the beach. I hope you enjoyed yourself.

2:39

We had some crazy kind of

2:41

rough storms through the night here.

2:43

It's that time of year, but we're

2:45

about to roll into AEW dynasty coming

2:47

up this weekend. Got a huge

2:49

dynamite on tap. Lots of, as

2:52

usual, wacky things going on

2:54

in the world of professional

2:57

wrestling. I don't know, man.

2:59

And today's topic, Conrad, I

3:01

cannot wait to hear. I want

3:03

to see how you toss these things

3:06

up. You know, I don't even

3:08

know what the title of today's

3:10

episode is going to be, but

3:13

it's the what if. And Conrad,

3:15

the amount of conversations

3:18

that you have generated.

3:20

on this podcast over the last couple

3:22

years that I've never ever thought

3:24

I would entertain. It's been quite the

3:26

journey. So a lot of fun. We're going

3:28

to have fun today, Conrad. So how was

3:31

the beach, pal? It was great. I'm excited

3:33

to be back, but I am sort

3:35

of scratching my head. People thought we

3:37

would talk about college basketball. I mean,

3:40

they said we were going to talk

3:42

about college basketball. Everybody knows.

3:44

that you and I are baseball

3:46

fans. We're big baseball fans, we're

3:48

baseball guys, everybody knows that. Hell

3:50

the whole world is filled with

3:53

baseball fans, which is why the new

3:55

franchise from Quincy, Quincy baseball

3:57

is now home to the doggy

3:59

paddlers. is going coast to coast. We're

4:01

looking to get 50 states in 50

4:03

days. So if you haven't already, what

4:06

are you waiting for? Go pick up

4:08

your Quincy doggy paddlers' merch. This

4:10

is going to be a hit down at

4:12

your favorite watering hole or just out

4:14

in the bad at the grocery store.

4:17

What a great name. The Quincy

4:19

doggy paddlers. You see people picking

4:21

up the merch in South Carolina

4:23

and Mississippi and North Carolina

4:25

and in Texas and Florida. They're

4:28

all over the place, but. I see you

4:30

and I man we got to place our

4:32

orders today we got to get some swag

4:34

from this Quincy doggy padless y'all were quick

4:36

on that man I didn't know it was

4:38

already out. Yeah man that we jumped right

4:40

on Jamie the guru chief storyteller

4:42

that's golden rule entertainment that's

4:45

actually what I'm a part of

4:47

in the team and baseball is our

4:49

platform but not our purpose and. So,

4:51

you know, Jamie really is the CEO,

4:53

but he likes to, his email address,

4:56

chief storyteller, because that's what we do.

4:58

We tell stories through our entertainment and

5:00

all that kind of stuff. But yeah, out

5:02

of the gate, nine states in just a

5:04

couple of days, but we got 50 days

5:07

to sell to all 50 states. And

5:09

yes, I was chastised last night,

5:11

because like, hey Jeff, you're slammed

5:13

up for the Tennessee sale. And

5:15

I know your schedule on Monday, because

5:17

I don't bother you. because you

5:19

record your podcast, My World, and

5:21

I believe if I'm not mistaken,

5:24

and he referenced, I think

5:26

there's a basketball tournament going on,

5:28

but you know, we know,

5:30

yeah, I've just been playing

5:32

basketball in March. I know balls, baseball

5:35

is off to a great start, such

5:37

a straw. Last year, I know roll tide,

5:39

so that's what we're here to talk

5:41

about, but we'll probably stick to

5:43

the what if stories, but no.

5:46

Quincy doggy paddlers man already a

5:48

ton of fun. I appreciate all

5:50

the kind of the social media

5:52

fun that folks have been having

5:54

and branding the team and yes

5:56

so springfield like your shoes

5:58

and the dogy paddle. That's what

6:00

kind of baseball, certainly at the

6:03

Madelike level is all about, having

6:05

fun, coming out to the park,

6:07

affordable entertainment, and that's

6:09

what we do. We sell fun at our

6:11

baseball. So, you brought it up, but I

6:14

want to just throw a little cheap

6:16

plug in here, I guess. Here we

6:18

go. I don't know if you saw,

6:20

but over the weekend, Alabama won another

6:23

national championship. It's just what Alabama does.

6:25

Yes. It's not really a secret at

6:27

this point, but. Shout out to

6:30

Alabama women's wheelchair basketball

6:32

team. They are now the national

6:34

champions. So I saw the picture. Roll

6:36

tide. Got the ladies there.

6:38

National championship. Roll tide,

6:40

baby. Roll tide, baby. Roll. I'll

6:42

give you that. It's a man.

6:45

Conrad wouldn't have been nice to

6:47

have that basketball tournament's

6:49

going on. Wouldn't it have been

6:51

cool if four SEC teams literally

6:53

four would have gotten the final

6:56

four would have got the final

6:58

four? Who didn't make it, but we'll

7:00

move on from that discussion a little

7:02

bit? I don't even know what you're

7:05

talking about, but I hope it turns

7:07

out well. Speaking of turning out

7:09

well, if you haven't already, this

7:11

Jeff Jarrett zombie sailor figure

7:13

turned out phenomenally well. Grab

7:15

these suckers fast. I can't believe

7:18

there's still a handful left.

7:20

I saw everybody I know who's

7:22

a figure collector picking this one

7:24

up. Easily, one of the best sculpts

7:26

that you've ever had. all available

7:29

now at zombie sailor.com.

7:31

That's zombie sailor.com. Were

7:33

you surprised with the

7:35

reaction of this? People seem to

7:37

love it, Joe. You know me,

7:40

when we started this, we did

7:42

the Conrad Thompson, a couple of slap

7:44

nuts figures, and so I've never

7:46

been a collector. I'm not really

7:48

a collector of anything. I got

7:51

the... The bonus room out there with different

7:53

photos and stuff like that, but I am

7:55

not like I know you collect some high-in

7:57

items other than belts as well, but I'm

7:59

not the collection. guy never really have

8:01

been but I'm always fascinated

8:03

just like the gaming world

8:05

I'm fascinated by the business of

8:08

it and I kind of had

8:10

my our mutual friends several of

8:12

them text and said as far

8:15

as the the the double j era

8:17

this figure blows everything away

8:19

and I went wow that's pretty

8:22

high praise coming some folks that

8:24

are experts on this and so

8:26

yes it's got it crazy crazy

8:28

reviews And it's funny, you know,

8:31

in my brain, I go back to,

8:33

you know, you're on the road

8:35

in those days and you do, gosh,

8:38

what was it? We're all

8:40

superstars and challenge. Yeah, that

8:42

was the cadets. And a

8:44

lot of times by the

8:46

time you got to challenge,

8:48

if you were involved in, I'll

8:50

call it storylines. Monday's

8:53

were kind of off limits for

8:55

photos. Tuesdays you had to be

8:57

scheduled but Wednesday challenge a

8:59

lot was a lot of times catch up

9:01

days on town specific promos

9:03

and some international liners and

9:06

all that kind of stuff and

9:08

obviously you know photos say the photographers

9:10

say I need to get you

9:12

updated in whatever it may be or

9:15

we need this for the magazine or any

9:17

of that kind of stuff and kind

9:19

of what photos end up kind of

9:21

living on just because of

9:24

that. There's a W.C.W. photo that

9:26

was ended up on an A&E

9:28

doc and it's kind of made

9:30

its rounds. I literally came out

9:32

of the ring at the United

9:35

Center in Chicago sweating and the

9:37

guy goes, I will get my

9:39

ass handed to me if you

9:41

don't take photos tonight. Can I

9:43

do it right now? I said,

9:45

I'd prefer not. What's on the

9:48

rest of your schedule? He goes,

9:50

I've got this. This outfit was

9:52

one of those ones that

9:54

got in a photo and one

9:56

thing led to another and

9:58

here we are. few years later and

10:01

we got a figure coming out and

10:03

folks are loving it so very very

10:05

cool it is super cool check it

10:07

out zombie sailor.com I don't even know

10:09

this was on your radar Jeff but

10:11

I wanted to mention it to you

10:13

because it jumped off the page to me

10:15

right up the road from you in Kentucky

10:18

starting today and I guess for like

10:20

the next two years there's going to

10:22

be a miss Elizabeth Elizabeth

10:24

exhibit in Kentucky at the

10:27

Capitol City Museum I guess the

10:29

exhibit is called The Lovely Miss

10:31

Elizabeth, the First Lady of Wrestling.

10:33

This is open Monday through Saturday

10:35

from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.

10:37

its free entry. But man, the idea

10:40

that this is happening in

10:42

Frankfurt, Kentucky, an exhibit for

10:44

two years celebrating Miss Elizabeth

10:46

that opens today as you

10:48

and our recording March 31st,

10:51

I didn't see this coming, but hey,

10:53

I think this is cool, man. Imagine

10:55

if more town sort of... leaned in

10:57

and celebrated the wrestling history

11:00

in that community. This

11:02

could be the start of something

11:04

that maybe other community

11:06

see and think is a nice little

11:09

cost effective attraction. Why

11:11

not? What do you think of this?

11:13

Johnny. First off, don't go to a

11:15

lunch, how did you, how did you

11:17

hear about this? I was tagged on

11:19

social media. and thought man this is

11:22

pretty cool and then I did some research

11:24

and saw yeah it's like a two year

11:26

long deal celebrating Miss Elizabeth and I thought

11:28

man that's such a great idea I don't

11:30

mean this disrespectful to Miss Elizabeth I think

11:32

everyone my age grew up and she was

11:35

such a big part of our fandom as

11:37

a kid she was a central figure for a

11:39

lot of major storylines but it's like

11:41

hey if they can do this for Miss Elizabeth

11:43

I hope other places do this for other wrestlers

11:46

like you know we've all seen the the Jerry

11:48

Lawler stuff at the casinos in

11:50

Mississippi and in Memphis. But he

11:52

was obviously an icon of the

11:54

area. This sort of same thing could exist.

11:56

And I know Hogan has his beach

11:59

shops. That's. a different thing, but

12:01

you get where I'm going. If

12:03

more local communities would celebrate like,

12:05

hey, Bobby Heenins from here and so

12:08

and so, that'd be cool. Wait, and I

12:10

want to come back to Liz, but before

12:12

I forget this, did you send it

12:14

to somebody else into me about some

12:16

kind of state law, state bill? Oh,

12:18

yeah, the Rickflare Act. Yeah, so that's

12:20

something that we should talk about. There

12:23

was a bill introduced and at the

12:25

state level in North Carolina. to see

12:27

about the viability of a pro

12:29

wrestling hall of fame, like a

12:31

physical hall of fame in North

12:33

Carolina. And they were voting on whether

12:36

or not they wanted to spend $500,000

12:38

to determine whether or not that

12:40

was viable for the community. I

12:43

thought it was crazy expensive to

12:45

figure that out, but okay. But

12:47

the bill was nicknamed in North

12:49

Carolina, the Rick Blair Act. I thought, what

12:51

a cool homage that that is. a few years

12:53

ago, you know, I don't know that we

12:55

would have seen some of this popping up,

12:57

but as of course, wrestling rises in

13:00

popularity and pop culture and

13:02

becomes more and more mainstream,

13:04

maybe we'll see more of this.

13:06

I mean, Miss Elizabeth and Frankford,

13:08

Kentucky, shout out. And I'm going

13:10

to come back to Liz, but you know the

13:13

first thing I've thought of on the

13:15

Carolina Act and spending that money

13:17

and all this. I sure hope, because look,

13:19

I'm in you and... like a lot of other

13:21

people, I'd love to see this happen

13:24

because there doesn't have to be just

13:26

one at all this, but they have

13:28

the NASCAR Hall of Fame there. So

13:30

just a way to, what do you

13:32

call it efficiencies? I mean, build another,

13:34

I mean, there's some way to do

13:36

it. There's a boatload of money and

13:38

I can't say it's the exact same

13:40

fan base, but there is a crossover.

13:43

Yeah, I hope the folks are looking

13:45

into having some way that

13:47

may offend some NASCAR fans,

13:49

but anyhow, maybe there's a

13:52

there's a way that you can have

13:54

it where it takes the load off

13:56

of Hall of Fame. I don't know,

13:58

but make it make sense. But the

14:00

Liz thing, Frank for Kentucky,

14:02

it, when I was looking at that,

14:04

I was, man, if there was a,

14:07

there was a camera shot of me,

14:09

I was kind of like amazed on

14:11

it. Got to be getting me. First

14:13

time I ever remember hearing this, I

14:15

was in, I don't know, ninth

14:18

or tenth grade, Eddie Marlin referenced

14:20

to my dad, hey, Savage's

14:22

girlfriend, and that's what it

14:25

was, Liz Hewitt, and obviously

14:27

before she. you know, broke into the

14:29

business, but Randy, you know, they'd

14:31

make the towns, but Liz would be

14:34

dropped off and she would come and

14:36

sit up and her and Eddie Marlin

14:38

had a very good relationship. Me

14:40

and Liz talked about that in

14:42

W. Just how good Eddie was

14:44

to her because she would always make

14:47

sure, you know, God, it's what it just

14:49

a different era that they weren't

14:51

necessarily seen together. And she just

14:53

sat up in the back corner

14:56

of the stands and high school

14:58

gyms or arenas certainly didn't

15:00

come in the dressing room

15:02

by any stretch of the

15:05

imagination totally old school and

15:07

she'd sit up there read a

15:09

book before the show got started

15:11

and she would slip out right

15:13

after Randy's match and go to

15:16

the card and and wait on

15:18

him so yeah Liz Hewlett as time

15:20

went on and I can remember

15:22

Eddie Marlin seeing her as

15:24

Miss Elizabeth. He was

15:27

just like an old man.

15:29

This girl's come a long

15:31

way. She's right in the

15:33

middle of the mega powers

15:35

Again, this is all kind

15:37

of when I'm breaking in

15:39

so that's very very cool.

15:42

Great for the business.

15:44

Happy for her At her

15:46

very course. She's just a

15:48

good old Kentucky gal. So

15:50

Good stuff man. I appreciate

15:53

you bringing that up today

15:55

I guess Rick Blair was the first to say he

15:57

did it twice, once as an individual, then as

15:59

the fourth. horseman, but now we've got a

16:02

few double all the famous, but Brett will

16:04

take his place as a three time

16:06

Hall of Famer as the W.

16:08

W. introduces not just the heart foundation,

16:10

not just Brett heart, but

16:13

a match from Wrestlemania. They're

16:15

calling it the immortal moment. I

16:17

guess this will become a new category for

16:19

the Hall of Fame for these major,

16:21

I guess matches, but they're calling

16:23

it immortal moments. So maybe it's

16:25

not just matches, but this is the

16:27

first time. that a match has

16:30

been inducted into the W.W.E.

16:32

Hall of Fame. No surprise. Red

16:34

Heart and stone cold. Going

16:36

to be there, going to be a

16:38

part of this. This is the first

16:40

match celebrated. All happening

16:43

at the fountain blue.

16:45

Of course, they're going to

16:47

monetize it and sell tickets.

16:49

And I'm sure it's going to

16:52

be a fantastic presentation.

16:54

But it's an industry. It's

16:57

a business. you know how they

16:59

arrived at this match because look totally

17:01

no in this match set a

17:03

lot of things in so many motions

17:06

how do they arrive at this

17:08

match and I'm just trying to

17:10

think look our business is so

17:12

ego driven did this make

17:14

anybody angry like hey my match

17:16

should have been the first one

17:18

hang on hang on are you

17:21

acting like you don't know exactly

17:23

why this match wasn't else We

17:26

got to get Steve Austin there

17:28

somehow. Oh, you're pretending like, oh,

17:30

I wonder, gee, well, how could

17:32

this happen? Well, no, I'm just

17:34

saying that they looked at their menu

17:36

for the weekend and lots of

17:39

folks, look, Stone Coal could just

17:41

be saying, I'm making an appearance

17:43

and it would be just fine. But

17:45

no, but how do you twist his

17:47

arm and get him to do it? Like,

17:49

how do you get a guy who's always

17:52

marched to the beat of his

17:54

own drummer? who has F you money

17:56

to leave his house and do something

17:58

he's not thrilled to do. you can't

18:00

get him to. But in deference

18:03

and appreciation and

18:05

being thankful to Brett, he's

18:07

not going to say piss

18:10

on bread. I'm no showing.

18:12

W. He says, great news.

18:14

Steve. We're putting you in the

18:16

Hall of Fame. I'm already in

18:18

the Hall of Fame. We're putting

18:21

them ation, not interested.

18:23

It's with you and

18:25

Brett. What day and time?

18:28

Motherfath. Hypothetically,

18:31

you think we see

18:33

anybody? Hypothetically? That's the best.

18:35

I mean, you know, that's what happened.

18:37

But I mean, since it's all a

18:39

good fun and good spirit, I'm sure

18:41

it'll be open to the public

18:44

free event, right? Oh, come on

18:46

now. Tickets on sale now at

18:48

ticketmaster.com. Of course, we're not plugging

18:51

that, but I do, I do think, by the

18:53

way, this is cool. Oh, because if

18:55

we're honest, the Hall of fame at

18:57

this point. and I don't mean this

18:59

ugly it's like okay who's not in

19:01

who deserves to be in we're no longer

19:03

saying hey what's the absolute best of

19:05

everything all time we're now saying

19:08

who else did we miss yeah I mean that

19:10

disrespect the guys who are going

19:12

in this year like triple age for

19:14

Lex Luger everyone would agree they

19:16

deserve to be in the whole class is

19:18

going to be great I'm sure but I'm

19:20

just saying this does give it a shot

19:23

in the arm oh yeah there's a new thing

19:25

we can do now And at the end of

19:27

the day, this business is a business.

19:29

It's, you know, it's driven

19:31

by revenue and so this

19:33

will be a revenue driver.

19:35

It's also driven by, you know,

19:37

the entertainment perspective and just

19:40

what you said, there

19:42

is going to be multiple

19:44

generations that will get

19:46

to enjoy this that, look, and

19:48

it tells a history and it's

19:51

so much branding and it's,

19:53

look, end of the day. Today

19:55

our topic today is what if

19:57

so mean you could certainly just

19:59

just roll this right out. What if

20:02

this match didn't happen? Well, what if, I

20:04

mean, hypothetically, how many of these

20:06

immortal moment trophies or Hall of

20:08

Fame plaques or whatever it is,

20:10

do you think Sean Michael's in

20:12

the Undertaker are gonna get? Oh,

20:14

goodness. I mean, the first bad blood, the

20:16

hell in the cell, look at

20:19

Sean at WrestleMania 10, Sean with

20:21

Undertaker, like there's so many of those.

20:23

This gives you a whole new thing, a

20:25

whole new dynamic of now we're gonna put.

20:27

two opponents together on stage and

20:29

celebrate that. Because that's really what

20:31

the Hall of Fame is supposed

20:33

to be, honoring the past, honoring

20:36

history, said differently, selling nostalgia. And

20:38

that's what they're going to try to

20:40

do. And I think they'll do a

20:42

phenomenal job. And by the way, it

20:44

is my favorite WrestleMania match of all time. I

20:46

know one of the favorites was Ricky

20:48

Steambo and Randy Savage. I know a lot

20:51

of people listening to this would say

20:53

mine was Sean an undertaker. What was

20:55

your favorite WrestleMania match. Oh,

20:58

wow. As a fan, not as a promoter,

21:00

not box office, just like, hey,

21:02

I'm gonna sit down and watch one

21:04

match from WrestleMania. Is it the

21:07

latter match with Razor and Sean?

21:09

Is it Savage and Steamboat at

21:11

WrestleMania 3? Is it Brett and

21:13

Austin at WrestleMania

21:16

13? Is it Undertaker and Sean

21:18

in Texas? What is number one for

21:20

you or something else? Yeah, well, you

21:22

know, and I've never been one of

21:24

those guys like a Mount Rushmore

21:26

guy. Because I just think there's

21:29

timings, everything, and there's so

21:31

many factors that go into

21:33

it, and by naming one,

21:35

you kind of discount, but

21:37

certainly in the running, all

21:39

those you just said, Conrad, for

21:41

different reasons. You know, and

21:43

look, you're much better, and I think

21:46

it's, well, you're not just your memory,

21:48

but I do in the pies,

21:50

and also just. Your mind

21:52

and others are mine

21:54

frame. I'm not I am

21:56

a moment guy. But man

21:59

savage. had some really big

22:01

moments. And I'm a savage guy.

22:03

And so I would have to really

22:05

look at that. But you know, Conrad,

22:07

as we kind of went through

22:09

the times, the match in a way that,

22:12

and look, you're going to do

22:14

a much better job of helping me

22:16

kind of frame this. But

22:18

Hogan Rockin' Rockin' you're going

22:21

to do a much better job

22:23

of helping me kind of frame

22:25

this. But Hogan Rockin' Rockin'

22:27

Rockin' Rockin' Rock. at

22:29

mania yeah when the

22:32

crowd case they took

22:34

over but you know they

22:36

did but it not

22:38

not in a negative

22:40

way not not yet

22:43

like that is so

22:45

much kind of the essence

22:47

of what we do

22:49

that it's not A

22:51

to B to C to

22:53

E and and that's fine

22:55

we all do that but

22:58

having that emotional

23:00

connection that the crowd

23:03

felt. And it was such

23:05

a overwhelming groundswell.

23:07

Man, that is just so, so,

23:10

so hard to do. You know,

23:12

the, the brat, when we're

23:14

talking about Austin, the

23:16

double turn and, and, and

23:18

look, they, yes, there's like

23:21

that, but the Hogan Rock

23:23

thing was a generational,

23:25

it took time. years and years

23:28

of hulkomania and then look NWO

23:30

and and then rock and all

23:32

that stuff that went together

23:35

that there's a couple of spots

23:37

in that match that are

23:39

so unmanufactured it's hard to

23:41

to to walk away from the match

23:44

without going I God I love

23:46

professional wrestling and I love

23:48

professional wrestling fans that that

23:51

is that was a special

23:53

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25:18

the future because there's so many unique

25:20

opportunities. By the way, speaking of

25:23

opportunity. Can you imagine the the

25:25

merch done? The shirts. the pictures have

25:27

the action figures I mean here's

25:29

here's the other thing you don't think

25:31

Ben Brown the archivist for

25:34

W. W. E. He's got

25:36

some old shit from WrestleMania 13

25:38

sitting around and they couldn't cut that

25:40

up and put it into a trading

25:42

card and have both outside it or

25:44

do it. There's so much opportunity

25:46

here to celebrate the history and

25:49

the nostalgia. It's a it's a

25:51

home run and speaking a home runs. So

25:53

is Turtle Beach. They sent me a new

25:55

stealth 700 headset for me to try

25:57

out. You may have heard me brag on.

26:00

My NBA 2K skills, I recently took Jeff

26:02

to the woodshed on NCAA and I could clap

26:04

them cheeks for Madden too. But I'm doing

26:06

it now without waking everybody up in

26:08

the house and really enjoying what I'm

26:10

doing. I found myself playing games sometimes

26:13

with the volume all the way down. Because

26:15

I didn't want to disturb anybody, I

26:17

didn't want to distract anybody, or wake

26:19

anybody up or whatever. And listen, if

26:22

you're playing some of those fun games that

26:24

I've enjoyed, like call the duty, and that

26:26

sounds like a damn war zone. But

26:28

if you really want an immersive experience,

26:30

you throw on the headset. And I

26:32

got admit, I was not a headset

26:34

guy. When this first became a thing

26:36

online gaming years ago, I tried one, but I

26:39

had cords at the time. And then I knew

26:41

that there was cordless now, but I thought it

26:43

was going to be a pain in the ass. Well,

26:45

first of all, this headset looks awesome. You

26:47

can see if you're watching with us over

26:49

on YouTube. The microphone actually folds

26:52

up into the headpiece into the

26:54

headpiece and then comes down. It

26:56

looks awesome. There's no other way for me

26:58

to say it. But the audio sounds

27:01

fantastic. And I can hear everything when

27:03

I'm beating on my buddies in 2K. I

27:05

can hear the rim reverberate in a way

27:07

that I've never heard it, I mean ever, when

27:09

I was playing the game through

27:11

regular television speakers or whatever. So

27:14

hearing it this way is a total

27:16

game changer. Not only that, man, I was

27:18

so shocked. That's the right word to use,

27:20

shocked with the battery life. It's literally

27:22

insane. I haven't charged it at all.

27:25

I've had this headset for over a

27:27

month. I've never charged it once. I

27:29

don't even feel like I have to

27:31

charge. It's never died midgame. None of that.

27:33

They say it has an 80 hour battery life.

27:36

I think it's more than that. And

27:38

sometimes we all wear headsets like even

27:40

the one I'm wearing for this podcast.

27:42

I can feel that it's on. Somehow I

27:44

don't know if the ergonomics are

27:46

different. I don't even know really what

27:48

the hell that word means. It's changed the way

27:51

I enjoy video games. It's made it feel like

27:53

it was a new experience. And all I did

27:55

was throw on the stealth 700. It's the

27:57

industry's first ever cross-played dual.

28:00

wireless transmitter system. That means

28:02

you can seamlessly switch between your consoles

28:04

and your PC all with just the

28:06

click of a button. And even better,

28:08

while you're connected to your console,

28:11

the stealth 700 can connect to your

28:13

phone for music streaming or taking calls

28:15

all at the same time. So you don't

28:17

have to rip it off and slide in an air

28:19

pod. This is it. You're good to go.

28:21

You can listen to your favorite songs while

28:23

gaming and it's all done with the stealth

28:25

700. This is amazing. By the way,

28:27

Turtle Beach doesn't just make these bad-ass

28:29

headsets. They have every gaming accessory you

28:32

could ever want. It's all high quality

28:34

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28:36

And when I first got this, I was bragging

28:38

about it with my buddy John at the office.

28:40

He's already got one. He's had one. He's

28:42

been on Turtle Beach for a while. And

28:45

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28:47

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the ultimate immersive gaming experience with

29:17

Turtle Beach today. Hey do you think

29:19

we could get you wearing one of

29:22

these headsets? So, you know what? You

29:24

have really gotten froggy

29:26

today and I hope you jump.

29:28

So we're not going to play

29:30

any of this NBA gym. E&U,

29:33

Powell, NHL. I will whip your

29:35

ass. So, me and Cody, we have

29:37

this, man, Connie, I'd even let

29:39

you in on this. We've had, this

29:42

is going on, I don't know,

29:44

three or four weeks. Me and

29:46

Cody throw down at this and so

29:48

in the controller, when you score

29:50

in hockey, It vibrates, but it

29:53

makes all this noise and all

29:55

this. And Cody looks over me

29:57

and says, hey dad, we need to

29:59

get us. headsets. Now I just

30:01

thought that was maybe the sun

30:03

kind of, but as I've continued

30:06

to play over the last couple

30:08

of weeks, I got to give me

30:10

some turtle beach powl and me,

30:12

I will happily do a YouTube

30:14

live, we'll bring Cody in if

30:16

needed to kick your butt in Madden,

30:19

but we'll play some NHL and I'll

30:21

take it. Wait, wait, wait. I thought

30:23

you were the self-professed

30:25

basketball junkie. I just

30:28

hadn't played that game. Give me

30:30

a day and I'll wear you out. A day.

30:32

Okay, well there it is. Go do what

30:34

Jeff's gonna do today. Go

30:37

to turtlebeats.com/my world. Be sure

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30:48

Yes. Thank you. Hey, so this

30:50

weekend is a big paper view. We

30:52

should mention this is the first time

30:54

that AEW has ever done a paper

30:56

view in Philadelphia. For the

30:58

sickos, buy the sickos. It's on

31:00

sale now at aewtix.com. It's AEW

31:02

dynasty. I'm pumped about this. It

31:05

feels like AEW always over delivers

31:07

on paper view. I'm sure this

31:09

will be no different. For the

31:11

world title, it's going to be

31:13

John Moxley and Swarf Strickland.

31:15

I've been on the Swear of train for

31:17

a long time. I'm hopeful. that we

31:20

put an end to John Moxley and

31:22

the Death Riders this weekend. We've

31:24

also got the women's title on

31:26

the line for Tony Storm and

31:28

Megan Bain and yeah this is gonna

31:30

be bad ass. I mean Megan Bain

31:32

has exploded onto the scene and it

31:35

feels like Tony Storm is having a

31:37

career run right now. Can't wait to

31:39

see this. Also for the TNT title

31:41

there I guess there's gonna be

31:43

no outside interference and no time

31:45

limit for Daniel Garcia and

31:48

Adam Cole. We've also got

31:50

the AEW International Championship. This

31:52

is a three-way dance with

31:54

Kenny Omega, Ricochet, and Speedball

31:57

Bailey. Of course, Ricochet is fresh

31:59

off of a run. with W.E. and he has

32:01

been turning a lot of heads in A.W. fans

32:03

at first thought he was one way and

32:05

now we're seeing the true character revealed

32:07

of Ricochet and I don't think

32:09

everybody's on the same page about

32:12

Ricochet but the internet has decided

32:14

Speedball Bailey man he is the

32:16

latest flavor of the month as

32:18

far as the new great talents that

32:20

A.W. It feels like every month there's

32:22

a new. five-star banger signing and

32:25

Speedball Bailey has been making a

32:27

name for himself and T&A and

32:29

around the world for a long long time.

32:31

Now he's coming to Philadelphia in

32:33

almost a dream match scenario just a

32:36

few years ago this would have been

32:38

considered a dream match and now it's

32:40

just what AW's doing this weekend and

32:42

of course in my mind one of if not

32:44

the greatest professional wrestler lacing

32:46

him up today Kenny Omega

32:49

is gonna round out that three way.

32:51

What a spectacle this will be. But how

32:53

about the AEW Trios championship match? A

32:55

lot of story in this one. We

32:57

see the Death Riders on one side and

33:00

rated FTR on the other. So we've got

33:02

Cope and FTR and it feels like

33:04

there's been some communication breakdown

33:06

there with those guys. We've been

33:08

watching that on AEW programming recently. This

33:11

is going to be something

33:13

for everybody this weekend. If

33:15

you're looking for women's wrestling.

33:17

If you're looking for crazy three ways,

33:19

I mean, think of the things

33:21

that Kenny Omega and Ricochet and

33:23

Speedball Bailey can innovate that we've never

33:26

seen before. Lots of story with Death

33:28

Riders and FTR, Moxley and Swerve,

33:30

you gotta assume that's gonna be

33:32

a bloodbath. There's something for everybody

33:35

in this one, Jeff. Gani, I got out of

33:37

my car today at the gym and there's,

33:39

it's a pretty big parking lot, but

33:41

a buddy mind pulled in about three rows

33:43

over. And he said, hey man, dynasty

33:46

this weekend and we start talking

33:48

and by the time we got to the

33:50

door, he said, doesn't it feel like

33:52

revolution was like a year ago, but

33:54

on the other hand, I feel like

33:56

it was last night. And you, he said,

33:59

you guys, man. the depth of the

34:01

roster. He's super super pumped of

34:03

just like you are. It sounds

34:05

like the three way he loves

34:07

him from Kenny Omega. But yeah,

34:09

the depth of the roster and

34:12

I close the conversation,

34:14

you know, like I always do all

34:16

this. Like nobody does currently resting

34:18

paper views like AEW. You

34:21

always walk away from it

34:23

going, holy shit. What a show.

34:25

So nobody ever, I mean, here's

34:27

here's the reality. I don't know

34:30

if that paper view is worth the money.

34:32

Said no one ever who watched an A.W.

34:34

paper view. I mean, I've heard sometimes

34:36

in sales, you know, and I mean

34:38

this in a loving way, not in

34:41

a negative way. Sometimes we try

34:43

to put 10 pounds of shit

34:45

in a five pound bag. A.W. does

34:47

that in paper view. Hey, you were

34:49

expecting, you know, three and four star

34:51

matches. How about all five stars? I

34:53

mean, as far as critical

34:55

acclaim goes, as far as given

34:57

the guys, their time. Like you're not going

35:00

to see a series of two-minute matches on

35:02

an AW paper view like you have in

35:04

other areas. I highly recommend if you're

35:06

on the fence, maybe you haven't been

35:09

watching AW regularly. Watch this paper view

35:11

in Philadelphia. Maybe you haven't been

35:13

watching the Philadelphia. Maybe you haven't

35:16

been watching the stories. But I just know

35:18

in my heart of hearts, Tony Khan loves

35:20

Philadelphia. Tony Khan used to only

35:22

go to wrestling shows that were in and

35:24

around where he grew up in Illinois. His

35:26

first venture to go see wrestling

35:28

What's to Philadelphia? It's crazy. He

35:30

knows that this is where the

35:33

hardcore wrestling fan base is. And the

35:35

idea that AW gets to do what

35:37

they do in front of that crazy

35:39

crowd, man, you couldn't, there's no

35:41

way you can talk me out of

35:43

watching this one. I'm fired up. It's

35:45

this weekend. It's AW dynasty.

35:47

Maybe you haven't been watching. You

35:50

should watch this paper view. Let me

35:52

just say that. Right on, brother. Jeff,

35:54

we're going to be talking about

35:56

a lot of different things today,

35:58

a lot of hypotheticals. But recently,

36:00

you did something pretty cool. I

36:02

wanted to highlight. We have a series

36:05

over at ad free shows.com called Learning

36:07

Lucia. And our resident star there

36:09

is Sam Madonna's. And that is

36:11

Corey Graves from WEE's real-life brother.

36:13

And their father was a wrestling promoter

36:16

in the Pittsburgh area. The wrestling's

36:18

in his blood. Now he lives in

36:20

Texas, but he's making shots in Mexico

36:22

all the time for AAA. And I

36:25

thought, hey, what a cool idea. Let's get

36:27

two Americans who've learned. and

36:29

had a great experience working

36:31

with AAA to talk about

36:33

wrestling in Mexico. So why not have

36:35

you jump on and chop it up

36:37

with Sam and we've got a clip

36:39

right here? The Lucilebrae style

36:42

in Mexico absolutely want

36:44

you to get suspended,

36:46

suspend disbelief and people say,

36:48

oh, it's a hot mess and the

36:50

referee isn't doing this or or there's

36:53

no rules or it's 201 or 301,

36:55

but in the day. the viewer the

36:57

consumer what I have found is they're

36:59

coming in and they want to see

37:01

a kick-ass fight and that's what we

37:04

give them and when they dial

37:06

into it and you get

37:08

emotionally invested that's why I'm

37:10

so respectful and appreciative of

37:12

the mutually liberate heritage

37:14

because the legacy or the

37:17

influence that's the word I'm the

37:19

influence that is in today's

37:21

American product that is in today's

37:24

American product from Lucia Lebray.

37:26

I don't think people realize how heavily

37:28

it is. Check it out. It is

37:30

a great conversation about the last

37:32

real territory in pro wrestling. We're

37:34

going to hear Sam and Jeff

37:36

break down the differences between wrestling

37:39

in Mexico and America and a

37:41

lot more. We're talking about learning

37:43

Lucia with Sam Adadonus exclusively at

37:45

ad free shows.com. That's where

37:47

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37:50

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37:56

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37:59

Kyoto from Nick from Tully Blanchard

38:01

from Sam Madonna's from downtown

38:03

Bruno. It's a who's who professional

38:06

wrestling and it's all live and

38:08

interactive and you can even be a

38:10

part of our live studio audience. I want

38:12

to give a shout out to Alex

38:14

Wheaton and Doug Ritter and I know coach

38:16

was with us earlier. Go check us out

38:18

be a part of the family at ad

38:21

free shows.com. Hey so let's jump into

38:23

our topic today. You know we're going

38:25

to be talking a little what if.

38:27

You know Conrad, if you don't mind. a

38:29

lot of times and me and

38:31

Conrad I'm certainly guilty of it

38:33

but you know you you hear of this legend

38:35

and lore of all this American

38:38

or this Canadian or this

38:40

I don't know from UK they moved

38:42

to Japan and lived in the dojo

38:44

and came up that way and you

38:46

know learned just there's there's a lot

38:49

of pain your dues kind of mentality.

38:51

Sam did that it's that it's

38:53

a lot of pain your dues kind of

38:55

mentality. Sam did that

38:57

it's CMLL. He moved down there,

39:00

learned the language, but he trained

39:02

in CMLL in really, and I

39:04

was just the language, the

39:06

culture, the fabric, the

39:08

respect that he has in the

39:10

country amongst them. I say this

39:12

out in all due respect. When

39:15

he goes down there, he's one

39:17

of them, if that makes sense.

39:19

And so his wealth

39:21

of knowledge just oozes

39:24

out. And so my

39:26

world listeners, check it

39:28

out. Had free members,

39:30

learning Luce. What if

39:33

Memphis doesn't

39:37

fall off

39:39

so

39:41

quickly

39:43

without

39:46

Jerry

39:48

Lawler in

39:51

early 96?

39:54

And I guess as the story goes, there was a

39:56

plan for Lawler to take a few months off

39:58

while he was doing a work. vacation in

40:01

Hawaii but business without him

40:03

and without a good replacement

40:05

as a top baby face falls

40:07

off immediately. What do you remember about

40:09

this era Jeff? Well Conrad and

40:12

and when I was kind of

40:14

looking at the different things that

40:16

we were you know potentially can

40:18

discuss and there's a long list I'm

40:20

sure we won't get to all of

40:22

them. It did take me back to

40:24

my senior year in high school and

40:26

the summers and pulling the ring

40:29

pulling the ring and you know so

40:31

we're talking 84 85 the business

40:33

it was rocking and rolling pretty

40:35

good you get to kind of the

40:37

fall of 85 that is a

40:39

graduated high school spring of 85

40:42

getting the call the business

40:44

started going down when the kids

40:46

go back to school so it

40:48

was down but I wasn't living

40:50

it day to day at all because

40:52

I was playing college basketball. So

40:55

you kind of roll into,

40:57

you know, we'll call it, you

40:59

know, Christmas of 85, New Year's

41:02

86. You know, business was

41:04

not, it just wasn't going

41:06

great. And Lawler, I

41:08

don't say wanted to take

41:11

time off, and this is my

41:13

best recollection. He did

41:15

want to take some time

41:17

off, but they were like, man,

41:19

we got to give him a

41:22

rest. It was just tough, it

41:24

was tough because you have to

41:26

go back in time and look

41:28

at the amount of talent and

41:30

look at where by this time,

41:32

you know, WrestleMania 2, 3

41:35

had taken place, Holcomania

41:37

is running wild, Savage had

41:39

been gone, you just kind

41:41

of have to think of

41:43

the talent that had left,

41:45

you know, there were two

41:47

national companies, it was

41:50

just challenging times. And when

41:52

all this rolled around and businesses down

41:54

and Lawler went ahead and took the

41:56

time off, you know, back in those days,

41:58

it was, hey man, the top guy. He needs

42:00

kind of a rest. And when he

42:02

took a rest, I mean, it went

42:04

from bad to worse. And so that

42:06

kind of brings us to where we're

42:08

at right now. I don't know how

42:10

far you want me to go with it

42:12

right here, Conrad, but that's kind of,

42:15

it was a, it was a

42:17

very challenging time in the business

42:19

for, for what do we call,

42:21

U.S.W. W. It wasn't even U.

42:23

U.S.W.A. That that. The first show

42:25

without him is where we have built

42:28

on the headline headline. He's

42:30

wrestling big red, Ira Reese. And

42:32

if you take a look at the

42:34

television footage that aired at the time,

42:36

it looks like it's under a

42:38

thousand fans there. Now it gets better

42:41

when there's more opponents for

42:43

Dundee, but it's not so

42:45

much that it's not sustainable

42:47

as, well, fans just aren't with

42:49

it. And Lawler comes back in March

42:52

and he has an angle that

42:54

introduces you as a character.

42:56

And that leads to what we

42:58

would know as the final

43:00

Mid-South Coliseum sellout in company

43:02

history just two days later.

43:04

So if the business didn't sink

43:07

so quickly without Lawler and

43:09

we had somebody to just sort

43:11

of keep us at that pace,

43:13

I'm just wondering with the benefit

43:15

of hindsight. Do you think that

43:17

the call was made to do

43:19

this heavy heat angle with Dundee

43:22

and Landell attacking you? trying to

43:24

take out your dad's quote unquote good

43:26

eye and things like that. That was

43:28

that something that was decided on

43:30

shortly before it happened? Or is

43:32

it something we knew we needed to

43:34

sort of pop business? I mean if

43:37

Dutch bandel had turned baby face on

43:39

Dundee and Landell sooner, could he have held

43:41

down the fort better than Dundee with

43:43

like a revolving door of opponents?

43:46

I'm just wondering with the benefit

43:48

of hindsight. Was there anything that

43:50

could have done differently in Memphis?

43:52

to keep that momentum

43:55

before steady decline

43:57

continues. And you

43:59

know, Today's episode, let me

44:01

kind of take a step back and

44:03

preface on all of it,

44:05

because I've been looking forward

44:08

to this episode because our

44:10

researchers have the lens and

44:12

you're going to add your

44:14

expertise to it and really come up

44:16

with some different ways to

44:18

phrase. Well, what if this didn't

44:20

happen or what if that did that?

44:22

Well, me living it, Conrad, I

44:25

can't tell you how many times I've

44:27

kind of thought through all of this.

44:29

You know, let me say this

44:31

as well. This is, you

44:33

know, this isn't just recovery

44:36

talk, but, you know, it

44:38

is a part of recovery

44:41

because, you know, when you,

44:43

um, battled a disease

44:45

of addiction, you screw

44:47

up a shit load of

44:49

times. And, you know, you

44:51

can resent yourself and

44:53

be pissed off at it

44:56

or resent others. If this guy

44:58

wouldn't have done this guy, if my mom

45:00

would have done this, or dad done this,

45:02

I mean you can come up with a

45:04

thousand excuses and so you get into that

45:06

self-pity and it'll kill you. It will absolutely

45:09

kill you. So I'm going to say all

45:11

that we're going to have fun today, but

45:13

every one of these decisions that took

45:15

place brought me to where I'm at today. Conrad,

45:17

I just had to get that out because I

45:19

think sometimes... I will say things and

45:21

if you take it out of context,

45:24

you're going to say, well that

45:26

ungrateful bastard, this happened, this happened,

45:28

made it, but it's all worked

45:30

out. But I tell you, when you're raising

45:33

five kids and you're encouraging each

45:35

and every one of them to

45:37

go to college and they look you in

45:39

the eye and say, dad, did you finish

45:41

college? And I go, well, a little

45:43

different time frame, but anyway.

45:45

So all the things that happened

45:48

that happened that Conrad... Coming in

45:50

to March of 86, I was

45:52

playing college basketball. I had

45:55

refereed for two summers.

45:57

The last thing on my mind.

45:59

was breaking into the business. In

46:02

my mind, I was gonna play

46:04

another year of junior college basketball

46:06

and take the best four year

46:08

offer. And that was, that truly, I

46:10

didn't even really think that I wanted

46:12

to go back to refereeing during the

46:14

summers. I was gonna be all in

46:17

as a college athlete and has things

46:19

kind of, you know. went down and

46:21

Lawler takes once the vacation and needed

46:23

it. He had been murdered and my

46:25

father was thinking, yeah, that's a good

46:27

idea. Let's give him a rest and

46:29

we'll bring him back. Tennessee was generally

46:31

a summer territory. So give him a

46:33

rest during the winter when it's going

46:36

to be down anyway, although he didn't

46:38

think it's be down as it was

46:40

and you know, you're battling W. W.

46:42

W. or Turner or whatever it may

46:44

be and all the different factors. And

46:46

I think about where Dundee and

46:49

Landell were at in their careers

46:51

and they were in and really

46:53

good workers and all the goat went

46:55

with it Dutch was you know he

46:57

was a mainstay here but he

46:59

had done other territories and looked

47:01

at different things and you know

47:04

my dad's mindset in life and

47:06

where he was at and you know he

47:08

you know I'll say come off he didn't think

47:10

the run was over but he

47:12

had crazy big years. you know,

47:14

80, 80. Well, when he lost

47:17

the company, but he really had

47:19

big years and all the talent

47:21

that he came through, all that

47:23

being said, Conrad, it goes down

47:25

and it really went down and

47:27

it really went down. And so

47:30

all of this was, hey, Lawler, we

47:32

need you back a lot sooner than

47:34

we thought. Okay, how are we going

47:36

to bring him back? Well, let's

47:38

see. We can beat me up

47:41

and I'm talking about my dad and

47:43

my dad's, yeah, we can beat me

47:45

up and I demand you coming back

47:47

and, you know, or, kind of ready

47:49

if I hadn't have been on

47:51

spring break with the family, they're

47:54

down there, I think 10 days or

47:56

seven days, I came down for a weekend.

47:58

Hey, my son's here. You know, and I'm

48:00

getting up probably eating pancakes. Hey, what

48:02

happened? I mean, all the, what, what

48:05

if we beat up Jeff? What are

48:07

you talking about? He's playing college

48:09

ball. Well, look, he'll be off

48:11

next Saturday because their tournaments

48:13

don't start till after that. What?

48:15

Yeah, okay, so he comes down and

48:17

he's refereed all his spot shows. We

48:19

can just say that, you know, he's college

48:21

kid. Just Conrad. the amount of

48:23

what if just in this one story and

48:26

you cut me off when you want to

48:28

cut me off but I mean just the

48:30

fact that the spring break and lollers gone

48:32

and all this and that's how I

48:35

get into the truly break into the

48:37

business was on an angle to

48:39

really bring loller back and they used

48:41

me to preheat and heat only well

48:43

and I don't get too far ahead

48:45

it obviously I think they were expecting

48:47

the house to come up but I

48:50

don't think anybody would have

48:52

predicted that Lawler's coming

48:54

back, it'll sell out. I don't

48:56

think my father or Lawler or any

48:58

delusional optimist or

49:01

anybody would have thought, okay,

49:03

this is going to click because

49:05

the numbers just didn't add up.

49:07

I mean, Dundee and Landell had

49:09

heat, but hell, they didn't

49:11

have that much heat because the

49:14

business was on its ass. Just

49:16

all the different little factors you

49:18

kind of think through. But man,

49:21

what a life lesson. If you do

49:23

the right story at the right time,

49:25

you can damn near do anything

49:27

in this business if you

49:29

really align the start. That makes

49:32

sense Conrad. And I know

49:34

I got really long-winded there. I

49:36

don't know. I'll shut up. Let's you

49:38

take back over. Let's talk a

49:40

little bit about, you know,

49:42

what if Vern Ganya had

49:44

budged on his various contingencies

49:47

about selling your dad the AWA?

49:49

during that 87 to 1990 period.

49:51

In his memoir, your dad basically

49:53

wrote that he felt the

49:55

1990 between the Memphis Territory

49:57

Dallas, which he had picked up.

50:00

the world-class opportunity and

50:02

the addition of the AWA cities

50:04

in the Midwest and Western states,

50:06

he had a legitimate shot at

50:08

national expansion. And it is

50:10

interesting to think if he would have

50:13

been able to pull the AWA deal

50:15

off, what would that have looked like?

50:17

What would the battle plan have been?

50:19

Of course, the AWA wasn't in the best

50:21

shape and the U.S.W.A. business was

50:23

largely being carried by TV money.

50:25

It was a rights fee from WMC and

50:28

Memphis and they had ad sales that

50:30

were nationally syndicated for the

50:32

Dallas shows. And, you know, the idea

50:34

that your dad could have had

50:36

a national opportunity and tried to

50:39

do a national touring company, but

50:41

working on a strict budget is

50:43

at least an intriguing idea. You

50:45

know, do you think in an alternate

50:48

universe wrestling could have looked a

50:50

lot differently had your dad gotten

50:52

his hands on the AWA? or had

50:54

the doc sort of been cast that

50:57

it was going to be, you

50:59

know, Vince versus Ted Turner by

51:01

1990? Oh, Conrad and the kind

51:03

of a footnight on all that

51:05

because April 6 of 86 is

51:07

what I had my first match

51:09

and we're coming up on that.

51:11

And so we're really, you know,

51:14

the embarking of my career, um, because

51:16

I think we in the in

51:18

this pie, we're going to kind

51:20

of jump from what if story

51:23

to what if story that could

51:25

really have changed my my careers

51:27

the course of my career but

51:30

you know here we are 39 years

51:32

later and i'm just kind

51:34

of looking at all we've

51:36

been and we went from

51:38

eighty six now we'll call it

51:41

and i don't know if you

51:43

want to just talk ninety but

51:45

88 89 99 90. You're factored

51:48

in channel 11 in Dallas.

51:50

ESPN slot and then Vern slots

51:53

and you can say Denver,

51:55

San Francisco, obviously Minnesota, Chicago,

51:57

just kind of the those

52:00

markets, creating

52:02

the business plan, which I

52:04

never really think that

52:06

it was really laid out. It

52:09

was, how are we going to

52:11

piecemeal TV money? I

52:13

think, handedly, all

52:15

of that is a incredible

52:18

stretch. Although, if the

52:20

ESBN slot would have

52:22

started paying more. then

52:24

that could have come in. But the

52:26

ad sales and where we were

52:28

placed and the W.C.W. money, that's

52:30

quite the stretch on the what

52:33

if if it had been a

52:35

viable business. But who knows

52:37

because it could have affected

52:39

how W.C.W. did business because

52:41

what term on we've covered

52:44

it on so many pots, you

52:46

know, from the Kansas City

52:48

and the Florida territories,

52:50

how that could maybe or maybe

52:52

wouldn't be affected. I don't

52:55

know. The whole business was in such turmoil

52:57

in the late 80s. It is

52:59

interesting to think what if, and

53:01

I got to ask you a question,

53:03

what if your nuts didn't stink so

53:05

bad? You think you'd have better luck

53:07

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53:09

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53:11

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seven seven. I just don't see a

57:42

way for your dad to make it

57:44

work in 1990. But it would have

57:47

been interesting to think what if Memphis

57:49

world class and the AWA all

57:51

came together. I guess as the story

57:53

goes, he was trying to package this

57:56

together at the Napi Convention

57:58

in January of 19. and you

58:00

know, he didn't ever really get

58:02

any real momentum speaking a

58:05

momentum around 1991. Your dad

58:07

relayed the message from W.

58:09

C. W. About them wanting to

58:12

sign you or had they I

58:14

don't think they'd reached out to

58:16

you directly they reached out to him

58:18

and then he sort of shut it down.

58:20

Yeah, but I think I cover this,

58:23

but maybe we didn't because I

58:25

recalled it after we did the

58:27

episode. When did, what year are

58:29

you, you may not, doesn't really

58:31

matter, when did Crockett move to

58:34

Dallas? Because he, anyway,

58:36

Crockett 87. 87. Oh, was it

58:38

that early? Okay, Crockett came by

58:40

one of the sportitorium

58:42

tapings. And then that was

58:44

the first kind of that I

58:47

found out later. Hey, would

58:49

Jeff be interested? Just kind

58:51

of a general conversation.

58:53

And then Dusty, you know, it

58:55

kind of. kept going through the

58:58

years and stuff like that. I

59:00

have thought, and I think your question

59:02

is, what happens if I would

59:04

have gone? Is that your question,

59:06

Conrad? Yeah. Well, I was getting

59:08

there, like, you know, in this alternate

59:10

universe, if you would have went

59:13

to W.C.W. and we'll call it

59:15

1991. Yeah. Because I know that

59:17

Crockett, I believe you moved to

59:19

Dallas after the failure of, I

59:21

know he acquired Bill Watts. and he

59:23

tried to have like a super show if

59:26

you will for Starcade 87 so he moved

59:28

it out of Greensboro moved it to

59:30

Chicago had the wrestling network TWR

59:32

so I feel like that's the era

59:34

where he took over the expensive

59:36

Dallas office that was a rental that

59:39

Watts had so if he popped by the

59:41

sport of tournament may have been 88

59:43

but I was under the impression that

59:45

it was like 91 when someone from

59:48

W. C.W. not Jim Crockett

59:50

promotions. But 1991 you had an opportunity

59:52

with W.C.W. Am I off on that?

59:54

I think it's 90-91. I may be

59:56

wrong, but you're correct. But what

59:58

I found out is it went back

1:00:00

that far. So whenever we went

1:00:03

to Dallas, and so look, maybe it

1:00:05

wasn't when he was out there, but

1:00:07

I know Crockett stopped by, maybe

1:00:10

he had already been gone, but

1:00:12

he stopped by it and just

1:00:14

was casual conversation.

1:00:16

Obviously, I found about all

1:00:18

this later, but no, I don't want

1:00:20

to say the heart sale, but the

1:00:22

offer and hey, we'd like to have

1:00:24

Jeff, you know, come on board and

1:00:27

it's about time and he's, you know,

1:00:29

was under the assumption when he saw Junior,

1:00:31

Jim Crockett Jr. when he sold the Turner,

1:00:33

he was under the impression he's going

1:00:35

to sell and then he's still going to

1:00:37

run wrestling for Turner. Yes, he's going to get

1:00:39

a check, but now it's Ted's gimmick and he's

1:00:41

going to get a job. He's very quickly

1:00:43

told that is not going to be the case. Jim

1:00:46

Hurts going to come in. Allegedly, Jim Crockett

1:00:48

Jr. Had a bit of a meltdown, felt like

1:00:50

dusty and magnum and magnum and guys

1:00:52

like that didn't didn't stand up for

1:00:54

him. didn't stand up for him. And

1:00:56

so he had as the terms of

1:00:58

his sale, like a non-compete. And I

1:01:01

believe that that ran through like

1:01:03

1993. So around 1993 is when he

1:01:05

would have been trying to run and

1:01:07

we started to see he was

1:01:09

doing stuff in Dallas and certainly

1:01:12

in Philadelphia at the old

1:01:14

ECW arena. He's at least interested

1:01:17

in doing some stuff. And I would

1:01:19

imagine that once he's out

1:01:21

of W because he's got

1:01:23

this non-compete and he sold.

1:01:25

and he's living in Dallas

1:01:27

running his ice cream business that

1:01:30

he may have during that time

1:01:32

swung through the sportitorium

1:01:34

just to see is there anybody here

1:01:36

I can pick up once by non-compete

1:01:39

is up because I know he did

1:01:42

some tapings and such so I think

1:01:44

I'm not trying to jump in but

1:01:46

I'm saying I think that that

1:01:48

visit would have happened once he

1:01:50

was on the outs with WCP if

1:01:53

it was Yeah I know Crockett because

1:01:55

my dad told me that and maybe

1:01:57

he was fibbing I don't know but

1:01:59

then the The Dusty thing was

1:02:01

for sure. And look, Dustin came to

1:02:03

work for my father and then he

1:02:06

went on and because that was a

1:02:08

part of the conversation. Hey man, I

1:02:10

got Dustin down here and we've

1:02:12

got a bunch of young guys

1:02:14

and there was, you know, Steiner

1:02:16

had come into the territory. He

1:02:18

had gone over there was quite a

1:02:20

few guys that had come through Austin.

1:02:23

I don't know. There was, there was

1:02:25

several guys that I'm thinking. All

1:02:27

these guys just came through here here.

1:02:29

Now they're making, and I

1:02:32

remember they started, Turner

1:02:34

Money started at 156, three

1:02:37

grand a week, and you know, that

1:02:39

was a hell of a lot more

1:02:41

than I was making, running

1:02:44

up down Tennessee and

1:02:46

Texas roads. So, you know, if

1:02:48

I would have gone there, my

1:02:50

career, I honestly say

1:02:52

wouldn't have been nears long.

1:02:54

I do want to ask about that, the longevity, but I

1:02:56

also want to ask about where you think you would have

1:02:58

been slated. And I know this is all just hypothetical and

1:03:00

we're just freestyle in here. But if you would have

1:03:02

went to a W.C.W. in 1991, that's around the

1:03:05

same time that Brian Pillman is really turning a lot

1:03:07

of heads with Jucian Leiger and Brian Pillman was billed

1:03:09

as being 5-11-27, you were billed as being six feet,

1:03:11

two feet, two feet, and

1:03:13

Brian Pillman was billed as being

1:03:15

511 -227. You were billed as being

1:03:18

-227. Do

1:03:23

you think Dusty or perhaps Bill Watts

1:03:25

would have seen you or positioned you

1:03:27

as a light heavyweight? Not necessarily the

1:03:29

cruiser weights that would happen on

1:03:31

nitro, but I'm saying guys like Brad

1:03:33

Armstrong were lumped in there. And when

1:03:35

I think about your style and your look

1:03:38

and feel and all that, it feels like

1:03:40

you and Ryan Pillman and Brad Armstrong,

1:03:42

I could see that as a group. But

1:03:44

is it really that different? Because I

1:03:46

don't know how much heavier sting was. What

1:03:48

was it? 15 pounds? But that somehow felt

1:03:50

different than to a guy like Dusty or

1:03:53

Bill Watts. And again, we're not talking

1:03:55

about present the way we all be wrestling

1:03:57

today. We're saying back then, do you think you

1:03:59

would have? been brought in and maybe

1:04:01

positioned before you added

1:04:03

some mass that you did in the

1:04:06

WWF as a cruiser weight, not a

1:04:08

cruiser, a light heavyweight is what

1:04:10

they called it at the time. Yeah,

1:04:12

well, I mean, I've never been so

1:04:14

much and you tell from my

1:04:16

history exhibition and watching

1:04:18

Bill Dundee who's, you know,

1:04:21

look, I don't think height, weight

1:04:23

really determines the box office

1:04:25

attraction. I go back to.

1:04:27

Roberto Duran and Chigaray Leonard

1:04:29

and look either you're entertaining

1:04:31

or not or you've got

1:04:34

charisma or not or you

1:04:36

can talk or not. So I always

1:04:38

kind of looked at that but that

1:04:40

being said there's no doubt in my

1:04:42

mind I would have come in as

1:04:44

a underneath or a midcard baby

1:04:46

face that I would have organically had

1:04:49

to fall my way up the

1:04:51

ladder and that comes with political

1:04:53

you know you think about the baby

1:04:56

faces. remove the tip top

1:04:58

sting and maybe garvin and maybe

1:05:00

a few others we could get

1:05:02

out rosters but I'll call it

1:05:04

that young group that had super

1:05:07

ability but you know that and

1:05:09

I don't want to say it

1:05:11

was rudderless but they there was

1:05:13

no real vision behind hell they

1:05:16

didn't even think character it was

1:05:18

a talent it was a heel

1:05:20

or a baby face you know that

1:05:22

you didn't look at as Vince

1:05:25

did is let me create this

1:05:27

character of a sports entertainer.

1:05:30

And I say that, you can say,

1:05:32

let me create this character of a

1:05:34

professional wrestling. But no,

1:05:36

I would have been slotted just like,

1:05:38

I mean, there's, you know, off the

1:05:41

top of my head, I'm just

1:05:43

trying to think Mark Marrow, Steve

1:05:45

Austin, and look, Steve, bigger guy,

1:05:47

but you know, he became a

1:05:50

heel. There's a, I mean, gosh, Eric

1:05:52

Watts, Dustin Rhodes. Mark Murrow,

1:05:54

you said Brad Armstrong, there's

1:05:56

a lot of guys that kind

1:05:58

of came but they had you know runs

1:06:01

and then they fell off and then runs

1:06:03

and they fell off so there wasn't

1:06:05

any sustained and look they turned

1:06:07

over leadership how many times in

1:06:09

that corporate environment just at the

1:06:11

time frame I'm talking about two

1:06:14

or three times it feels like the

1:06:16

booking committee and yeah it was

1:06:18

it was definitely a different era.

1:06:21

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And we thank Bluechoo for

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sponsoring the podcast. Jeff, are you

1:07:40

yelling woo every time you get hard during

1:07:43

the show? Well whatever reason is you were

1:07:45

reading that as that deserves a little bit

1:07:47

of a woo that I didn't want to

1:07:49

stop on your reading but I think a

1:07:52

few woo were organically wooed in there so

1:07:54

you get a lot of you get a

1:07:56

lot of woo's with glitchy Max. You know

1:07:58

what we know that you. You know, 1991

1:08:00

would have been a Bill Watts era

1:08:02

in W.C.W. You think, how do you

1:08:04

think you would have gotten along with

1:08:07

Bill Watts? I know that he's there for

1:08:09

a cup of coffee in the WWF

1:08:11

when you're there as well, but I

1:08:13

know, you know, Bill obviously had respect

1:08:15

for your father and they

1:08:18

had a great relationship, I'm sure,

1:08:20

but chat me up. How do you think,

1:08:22

we know that when you first get

1:08:24

to the national stage? If it's

1:08:26

Vince McMahon who has his hands

1:08:28

on the steering wheel and they

1:08:30

were the dance, I mean, there's

1:08:32

no doubt that they were the A company.

1:08:34

But if you were with W.C.W. when Bill

1:08:36

Watts was there, do you think

1:08:39

that would have worked against you

1:08:41

because you weren't a quote unquote

1:08:43

super heavyweight? I think I would

1:08:45

have been successful, but with

1:08:47

a definite ceiling because Bill like big

1:08:49

gas as far as I, you know,

1:08:52

employee, employee, employee or

1:08:54

your relationship. coach, you know,

1:08:56

the toughest coach I ever had

1:08:58

in sports is my favorite. I

1:09:00

feel like I always love

1:09:03

somebody to be hard on

1:09:05

me, strict on me, tough on me,

1:09:07

whatever it may be, even

1:09:10

always motivate me. So from

1:09:12

that perspective, I think Bill

1:09:15

could have pushed me to

1:09:17

get the most out of

1:09:19

me. That being said, look

1:09:21

at his history of Xyl

1:09:23

Jim Duggan and... his his line

1:09:25

of backyard dog, Ted Deviasi, Hacksaw,

1:09:27

you didn't really look like a

1:09:29

Bill guy, which is why, yeah,

1:09:31

you know what, just pick your brain

1:09:33

here, just all this, when Terry

1:09:35

Taylor started getting that push, was

1:09:38

Bill booking or did he have a

1:09:40

Booker, who gave Terry the book, amid the

1:09:42

push? I don't, I don't think Bill

1:09:44

was ever handling the booking. I

1:09:47

think he was just overseeing it.

1:09:49

Okay. Like the way it's been said from J.R.

1:09:51

all those years as at first it was big cat

1:09:53

or any lab and then of course we know we

1:09:55

brought in Dundee who You know popped the territory of

1:09:57

the people said oh he hot shot it

1:09:59

or what? whatever. But I don't think that

1:10:01

Bill ever got too caught up in who

1:10:04

was booking. You just wanted to run

1:10:06

the business. Well, but the reason

1:10:08

I say that is is because Terry, me

1:10:10

and him about the same height, then I

1:10:12

know there's a real focus, but you go

1:10:14

back to the Dundee days, and you know,

1:10:17

you can call it hot shot, but man,

1:10:19

look at the influx of talent

1:10:21

that came in. That, that is a

1:10:23

fascinating. That is a tale of the

1:10:25

Terry, Terry, that's a podcast episode for

1:10:28

somebody. business turned around

1:10:30

you know you know Dundee was booking

1:10:32

but the influx of talent that's

1:10:34

that you know rock and roll

1:10:36

that place exploded with those that

1:10:38

that group of talent so anyway

1:10:41

yeah I'm not I would have

1:10:43

had a definite ceiling with Bill to

1:10:45

be clear you know when Terry Taylor

1:10:47

was on top I think that's

1:10:49

when the territory was was headed

1:10:51

down a little bit yeah it was

1:10:53

Yeah, you know, I think he wins at 85

1:10:56

March of 85, but the guys who would follow

1:10:58

him were not to his level. So he

1:11:00

anyway, let's talk about another

1:11:03

hypothetical, another what if it

1:11:05

allegedly in 1991. And again, remember,

1:11:07

this is the era where we've seen

1:11:09

Rick Blair go to the W. F

1:11:11

with the big gold belt. There's

1:11:13

a big lawsuit involved. The N.

1:11:16

W. A. Doesn't want their belt

1:11:18

seen on W. F. Program. It's

1:11:20

their property. So eventually they

1:11:22

get the belt back. But now W.C.W.

1:11:25

is going to have a world

1:11:27

champion and an NWA champion. And

1:11:29

there was a story, supposedly,

1:11:31

allegedly, W.C.W. wanted to talk

1:11:33

to your dad about having

1:11:36

an NWA title tournament in

1:11:38

Memphis, which Lawler would have won

1:11:40

in 1991, and even though the

1:11:42

NWA wasn't what it once was,

1:11:45

because now we're reestablishing the

1:11:47

W title, we could have

1:11:49

said Lawler won the NWA title.

1:11:51

And I guess the idea was. They

1:11:53

were going to unify those belts. Now this

1:11:55

is all rumor and innuendo, but this is

1:11:58

from the W CW side of things. will

1:12:00

crown a new NWA champion now that

1:12:02

we've got the belt back from the

1:12:04

World Wrestling Federation and Lawler will

1:12:06

win it in Memphis. It'll be huge

1:12:08

business. And then we'll do a

1:12:10

unification match for the NWA title and

1:12:12

the W. C. W. Champ at the

1:12:14

time of course is Lex Luger. So

1:12:17

Lex Luger in this hypothetical scenario

1:12:19

would have beaten Jerry Lawler.

1:12:21

There's no longer an NWA champion

1:12:23

and a W. W. Champion. Now

1:12:25

there's just one champion. And

1:12:28

as the story goes. Paul Heyman allegedly leaks

1:12:30

the talks to the newsletters. I don't

1:12:32

know if there were even serious negotiations, but

1:12:34

I know it didn't happen. And I

1:12:36

know a lot of long time wrestling fans, certainly

1:12:38

in Memphis, Big Lawler fans, they would

1:12:40

have loved to have seen him be

1:12:43

the NWA champion. And the unification

1:12:45

match would have made a lot of sense because

1:12:47

it was weird for W CW there for

1:12:49

a while that Sting is going to

1:12:51

be the W CW champion, but flares

1:12:53

the NWA champion. That's all confusing. And

1:12:56

even when they did combine them. They didn't

1:12:58

keep the W.C.W. physical

1:13:00

belt. They went back to

1:13:03

the original big gold, the

1:13:05

N.W.A. belt. So it

1:13:07

was very confusing at

1:13:09

different times, even when

1:13:11

they stopped calling at the

1:13:13

N.W.A. title, because even

1:13:15

W.C.W. had a falling out

1:13:18

with the N.W.A. and they

1:13:20

started to call themselves

1:13:22

the international champion. Have

1:13:24

you heard of this? No.

1:13:27

But that doesn't necessarily really

1:13:29

mean anything because during

1:13:31

that time frame, Texas and

1:13:34

Tennessee were going on. I was

1:13:36

definitely working the seven days

1:13:38

a week. And you know, that was something

1:13:40

that if a couple of phone

1:13:42

calls happened, my gut tells me

1:13:45

when, you know, looking at the

1:13:47

research, Heyman being involved, you know,

1:13:49

Heyman came to Tennessee and did

1:13:51

the hot angle and he was,

1:13:53

you know, young guy like myself

1:13:55

at the time. that him and

1:13:57

all are had a relationship, I can.

1:14:00

see a scenario where Haman,

1:14:02

you know, was in the middle

1:14:04

of this, I don't say, at the

1:14:06

conduit, whatever it may be, and

1:14:08

man, you know, I don't know where

1:14:11

Eddie Gilbert sat during this

1:14:13

time in or out or whatever

1:14:15

it may be, but I can

1:14:17

see some phone calls taking place,

1:14:20

and at this time, Lawler and

1:14:22

my father were looking, you know, the

1:14:24

immediate question would have been or thought.

1:14:26

wouldn't have been, oh man, I can

1:14:29

become NWA champion, it was going to

1:14:31

say, okay, how are we going to

1:14:33

make money off this in the short term

1:14:35

and in the long term? And if there

1:14:37

was no long term, then I think you

1:14:40

would have kind of have to readjust the

1:14:42

sales or think through it, but definitely open

1:14:44

for business and open to see how things

1:14:46

would have gone down. But I can

1:14:48

definitely see those conversations taking place

1:14:50

with Hayman and or Eddie Gilbert.

1:14:53

And oh, by the way, Conrad, the amount of

1:14:55

feedback I've got on the Eddie Gilbert

1:14:57

episode. I am so glad we did that

1:14:59

episode. I really am. Very good

1:15:02

too. I saw great feedback about that.

1:15:04

You know, one of the the

1:15:06

unsung heroes of professional wrestling.

1:15:08

I do want to ask, you

1:15:10

know, when you think about the way

1:15:12

that could have played out, if

1:15:14

W.W. would have partnered with the

1:15:17

U.S.W.A. like this in 1991 and

1:15:19

done this bit where Lawler becomes

1:15:21

the champ and then works with

1:15:23

Lugar. It does feel like that

1:15:26

could have lined up almost

1:15:28

like a developmental type territory

1:15:30

for W.C.W. We know eventually that we

1:15:32

see that set up with the

1:15:34

USWA and the World Wrestling Federation.

1:15:37

Did your dad? And we know that you

1:15:39

know in an alternate universe if

1:15:41

this would have happened it does

1:15:44

lend itself to thinking that could

1:15:46

have been the case. So maybe guys

1:15:48

like you know the rock. as he comes

1:15:50

in as Flex Kavana in Memphis and

1:15:52

all these other talent that go through

1:15:54

Memphis to get ready for the WWF. They

1:15:56

would have in theory hypothetically been

1:15:58

going that way through. W.C.W. side of

1:16:01

things. That's all interesting to

1:16:03

think about. But I do wonder,

1:16:05

when you think about your dad, and

1:16:07

we know he held Vince McMahon

1:16:09

in high regard, but do you think

1:16:12

your dad saw value in being

1:16:14

in the orbit of Ted Turner?

1:16:16

Because Ted Turner, his wealth, was

1:16:18

on another level of Vince

1:16:20

McMahon, his business acumen and

1:16:22

success was another level of

1:16:25

Vince McMahon, but your dad

1:16:27

was a nod in the wool wrestling

1:16:29

guy. And so was Vince McMahon. Do

1:16:31

you think your dad would

1:16:34

have even had interest in

1:16:36

being in Ted Turner's orbit

1:16:38

and having a formal

1:16:40

arrangement with W. C.

1:16:43

W. Or would he have

1:16:45

always preferred to work with Vince

1:16:47

because of the wrestling

1:16:49

commonality? That is really a

1:16:51

good topic to discuss. And

1:16:53

here's something that I think

1:16:56

a lot of times. I don't think

1:16:58

the as history. rolls

1:17:00

along on the just how

1:17:02

my father viewed The Tennessee

1:17:04

territory first and foremost he

1:17:06

knew And I'm talking about

1:17:08

it the very very core of

1:17:11

his business like the very core

1:17:13

of it that I am a

1:17:15

promoter of weekly towns and those

1:17:17

weekly towns are Memphis Nashville

1:17:19

Oval and Evansville You know

1:17:22

there for a time Jackson,

1:17:24

but for the most part

1:17:26

four weekly towns three nights

1:17:28

for spot shows That being

1:17:30

said, the population on those

1:17:33

four markets, and as good

1:17:35

as business was, he knew

1:17:37

the seedling. He knew that guys

1:17:40

are going to come in

1:17:42

and just by design, they're

1:17:44

going to want to go to

1:17:46

New York or go to Charlotte

1:17:49

or even to Florida or

1:17:51

certainly Japan money or

1:17:53

Texas. But he knew that

1:17:55

we were a small socioeconomic

1:17:58

area. that the amount of

1:18:00

pay that could be given was

1:18:02

not on the par that these

1:18:04

other big territories. And so when

1:18:07

he heard, you know, the stories

1:18:09

and, oh, Tennessee's a bad payoff,

1:18:11

relatively speaking, you paid what the

1:18:13

house just like every other territory

1:18:15

did. So with that being said,

1:18:17

he knew in that mid 80s

1:18:19

and look, he tried everything and

1:18:21

I think about. you know that

1:18:23

super clash when we did you

1:18:25

know the three territories and look

1:18:27

burn was older than him and

1:18:29

Fritz was wanting to tap out

1:18:31

he was the young out of

1:18:33

the three he really wanted to

1:18:35

try to craft something and try

1:18:37

to work with these guys and

1:18:39

he would be so frustrated with

1:18:41

Burns mentality and he knew that

1:18:43

Fritz could care less and I'm

1:18:45

dealing with Michael Hayes and love

1:18:47

those guys but you know Fritz

1:18:49

was still running that so he

1:18:51

knew in the the the mid

1:18:53

to late 80s that man. I'm

1:18:55

not making the big money more.

1:18:57

I've got to figure something out.

1:18:59

And so he harped on like,

1:19:02

what if, you know, as Jerry,

1:19:04

Jared, what am I good at?

1:19:06

I'm good at developing talent. I'm

1:19:08

good at spotting talent. I'll develop

1:19:10

talent. So he had the idea

1:19:12

of, we'll call it the developmental

1:19:14

system, the feeder system, whatever it

1:19:16

may be, way back. And so

1:19:18

your question being, and I'm getting

1:19:20

to that and I apologize for

1:19:22

being long window, but I think

1:19:24

the set point is just that

1:19:26

that that. Hey, if I'm going

1:19:28

to get business, if I'm going

1:19:30

to keep my business rolling, I

1:19:32

need to become some some type

1:19:34

of feeder system and seeing how

1:19:36

they, you know, gobbled up or

1:19:38

it turns such into a corporate

1:19:40

and yet Ted was the boss.

1:19:42

No doubt about it, but he

1:19:44

was never the resting guy and

1:19:46

my father watched the revolving door

1:19:48

of so many different people. in

1:19:50

their short period. We've already touched

1:19:52

on them. Jim herds, Bill Shaw

1:19:54

and Watson. I mean, just the

1:19:57

turnover and the turnover and the

1:19:59

turnover that if I'm. going to

1:20:01

be a developmental and I think

1:20:03

just by design him, you know,

1:20:05

relationship with Vincent's father, it all

1:20:07

just kind of organically happen. And

1:20:09

then then you put throw in

1:20:11

there the, you know, the legal

1:20:13

complete mess. And I think a

1:20:15

lot of times this day and

1:20:17

age here we are in 2025,

1:20:19

the people forget in 991, 92.

1:20:21

The the the W. E and

1:20:23

the steroid scandal. Man, it was

1:20:25

national news all the time and

1:20:27

not in a good light and

1:20:29

a bad light. So that relationship

1:20:31

on how can I help and

1:20:33

how, you know, Vince, you have

1:20:35

really raided all the territories and

1:20:37

now Ted has his company and

1:20:39

you have your company, all right,

1:20:41

now where are we at? And

1:20:43

Vince never ever really. I mean,

1:20:45

hell, the guy got on the

1:20:47

plane and became Mr. McMahon down

1:20:49

here. He didn't do that because

1:20:52

he wanted to be a character,

1:20:54

although he loved doing that. He

1:20:56

knew Vince knew the value in.

1:20:58

We've got to develop talent. He

1:21:00

was a believer in that in

1:21:02

developing talent. So I think it

1:21:04

goes without saying that my dad

1:21:06

was a wrestling guy and this

1:21:08

was a wrestling guy. And if

1:21:10

you're going to have a future

1:21:12

developing talent, you better go with

1:21:14

the wrestling. In hindsight, I don't

1:21:16

say for day one, but in

1:21:18

a lot of ways it was.

1:21:20

Let's talk about another what if

1:21:22

what if when you do sign

1:21:24

with a national company and you

1:21:26

go to work for Vince McMahon

1:21:28

and the W.F. What if they

1:21:30

wanted to bring you in as

1:21:32

a baby face rather than a

1:21:34

heel? Now that's almost unimaginable for

1:21:36

everybody who grew up watching the

1:21:38

double-j character, but as a reminder,

1:21:40

if that was your first introduction

1:21:42

to Jeff. Largely in Memphis, he

1:21:44

was the perennial baby face. He'd

1:21:47

been a baby face his entire

1:21:49

career. And now we're asking him

1:21:51

to step out of his comfort

1:21:53

zone and be a heel. I've

1:21:55

heard from a million wrestlers, it

1:21:57

feels like, who say, oh, being

1:21:59

a hill is not only. easier,

1:22:01

it's more fun, more enjoyable. But

1:22:03

I'm curious, did you feel like

1:22:05

that gave you the best chance

1:22:07

to ensure success on a national

1:22:09

level to come in as a

1:22:11

heel? Or if you had your

1:22:13

others, would you have liked to

1:22:15

have tried to come in as

1:22:17

a baby face? Now with the

1:22:19

benefit of hindsight, it feels almost

1:22:21

unimaginable the idea that you would

1:22:23

come in as a baby face.

1:22:25

But what did you think at

1:22:27

the time? And then an alternate

1:22:29

universe in our hypothetical what-if scenario.

1:22:31

If you came in as a

1:22:33

baby face, would you have still

1:22:35

done the country music persona or

1:22:37

would it have been something different?

1:22:39

Well, you gotta go, you'd have

1:22:42

to talk to the boss, you

1:22:44

know, on the ultimate, but Conrad,

1:22:46

you know, and you know, it

1:22:48

was two conversations like Vince has

1:22:50

had with thousands of talent. Tell

1:22:52

me a little bit about yourself,

1:22:54

where you're from, what do you

1:22:56

like? Yes, that, you know, it's

1:22:58

obviously your second generation, blah, blah,

1:23:00

blah, blah, blah. Okay, so nothing

1:23:02

was really decided. I'll really never

1:23:04

forget. All man telling me. Well,

1:23:06

Ben's want you to be a

1:23:08

heel. And Conrad, I had never

1:23:10

been a heel in my life

1:23:12

for about literally three minutes in

1:23:14

the sportitorium one night. I walked

1:23:16

down the heel aisle. It's is

1:23:18

a storyline. But then I turned

1:23:20

on him and came back baby

1:23:22

face. So I never and I'm

1:23:24

just like, and then, you know,

1:23:26

in Jerry Jared's best fashion, he

1:23:28

started giving me the pep talk

1:23:30

and just said, son, you're a

1:23:32

good talent. Don't worry about it.

1:23:34

I'm like, how in the hell

1:23:37

am I going to pull this

1:23:39

off? And then, you know, as

1:23:41

that conversation kind of ended and

1:23:43

the next thing, you know, our

1:23:45

boy, brother love, Bruce. He's coming

1:23:47

to Nashville to shoot the vignettes

1:23:49

and you need to get, I

1:23:51

don't know man, get as many

1:23:53

outfits as you can. We're going

1:23:55

to be ambitious. We're just, you

1:23:57

know, we're going to probably shoot

1:23:59

four six. eight a day and

1:24:01

vignettes and have all kind of

1:24:03

outfits and this and that and

1:24:05

just like but Conrad I think

1:24:07

about that time frame it's set

1:24:09

it I mean in a lot of

1:24:12

ways it launched me onto the

1:24:14

national scene with the defined character

1:24:16

and I've talked about it multiple

1:24:18

times on here to debut a

1:24:20

character in in you know in

1:24:22

nine end of 93 94 with

1:24:24

12 consecutive weeks of

1:24:26

vignettes That's a lot of

1:24:29

TV time during that time and

1:24:31

a very laser focus. I mean,

1:24:33

hell, it goes without saying

1:24:36

an action figure is

1:24:38

being sold today based off

1:24:40

that character. So, you know, he

1:24:42

knew exactly what he saw as

1:24:45

a southern dude and country

1:24:47

music was at a different

1:24:49

spot. You know, they call

1:24:51

him the had acts, but

1:24:53

it had really... The

1:24:55

80s you can't say country music

1:24:57

was was mainstream or pop music.

1:25:00

By the 90s it was it was

1:25:02

Garth Brooks was selling out. Yeah there was

1:25:04

a bunch of acts but country music

1:25:06

was in a different spot you know

1:25:08

I think if country music hadn't

1:25:10

it got as hot Nashville hadn't

1:25:13

started developing all those stars and

1:25:15

the hooks and the songs in

1:25:17

the country music videos by that

1:25:19

time were really rolling and pop

1:25:21

culture was different and. where

1:25:24

you think about Conrad, the

1:25:27

characters that were

1:25:29

presented in the WWF, let's

1:25:31

go 91 through 93, and then

1:25:33

we'll go kind of 96.

1:25:35

It just, it was a

1:25:37

different time frame, a

1:25:40

different, lots of what ifs

1:25:42

going through there. I am

1:25:44

super grateful that I debuted

1:25:46

as a heel. Oh man, so

1:25:49

many, so many, so

1:25:51

many things. happen positive out

1:25:53

of that. Well, let's talk about

1:25:55

let's go down that road because one

1:25:57

of the other what ifs is. You

1:26:00

know, we understand the pairing with the

1:26:02

roadie and you know, the idea originally

1:26:04

was going to be that he's going

1:26:07

to expose Millie Vanillie style, that he

1:26:09

was really the guy doing the singing,

1:26:11

but your entire persona had been on

1:26:14

being the world's greatest singer, the world's

1:26:16

greatest entertainer, blah blah blah. And your

1:26:18

dad wrote about it in his books

1:26:21

like, hey, not only is there not

1:26:23

necessarily a problem that you would lose

1:26:25

to the roadie and he would be.

1:26:28

you know, champion as the real singer,

1:26:30

but the real question is, where does

1:26:32

that leave you storyline once? Like once

1:26:35

you've been exposed as, hey, your whole

1:26:37

entire persona and gimmick based on being

1:26:39

the world's greatest singer, where you're not

1:26:42

really the singer, where do we go

1:26:44

from their storyline wise? Were you frustrated

1:26:46

with that and was there any sort

1:26:49

of concession that Vince could have given

1:26:51

you to change your mind about the

1:26:53

way that was positioned to stick around?

1:26:56

Because we know ultimately you wind up

1:26:58

walking out and we know you, you

1:27:00

know, have a lot of success in

1:27:03

W. C. W. But then you come

1:27:05

back and had you worked it out

1:27:07

with events somehow some way and hung

1:27:10

around the W. F. Does your career

1:27:12

look a lot differently in this scenario?

1:27:14

If you could have figured out how

1:27:17

to navigate those waters and not leave,

1:27:19

then you would have been there already

1:27:21

established as a multi-time intercontinental champion. when

1:27:24

Steve Austin comes into the company and

1:27:26

when Mick Foley comes into the company.

1:27:28

But it does feel like when you

1:27:31

walk out and you're on the sideline

1:27:33

for a bit and then you go

1:27:35

to W. C. W. That by the

1:27:38

time you come back, they've already firmly

1:27:40

established Austin and mankind and you're going

1:27:42

to come in sort of slaughtered beneath

1:27:45

them. You know what happened with that

1:27:47

promo you and Steve never really get

1:27:49

on the same page, but that whole

1:27:52

dynamic would have existed in a much

1:27:54

different way had you not left. So

1:27:56

In this hypothetical situation and circumstance of

1:27:59

what if you don't leave, what concession

1:28:01

from Vince would you have needed? not

1:28:03

walk out after you drop that match

1:28:06

to Sean Michaels and Nashville in your

1:28:08

house number two? I don't even think

1:28:10

it's a concession and this is to

1:28:13

me if we're kind of going through

1:28:15

the what ifs of double J or

1:28:17

whatever of Jeff's career this is the

1:28:20

biggest and look who knows how things

1:28:22

would have changed I've often thought just

1:28:24

what you've said because of doing the

1:28:27

pod you think through all these things

1:28:29

I mean you've had the discussions that

1:28:31

T&A might not have ever started had

1:28:34

I not left just because of the

1:28:36

positioning because just what you said and

1:28:38

I'll never forget when I came back

1:28:41

and I'm in Vince's home and it's

1:28:43

just me and him because I think

1:28:45

Ross went outside won't smoke a cigarette

1:28:48

Ross and my dad went outside it's

1:28:50

just me and Vince in the room

1:28:52

and you know he stood up and

1:28:55

he's like you know Jeff I

1:28:59

have kind of learned one thing

1:29:01

about you, and I'm just sitting

1:29:03

there going, okay, if you tell

1:29:05

me, hey Vince, there's a chance

1:29:07

of rain, then I'm gonna be

1:29:09

pretty sure I'm gonna expect a

1:29:11

thunderstorm to happen in the next

1:29:13

couple of minutes, because Jeff, I

1:29:15

had no idea where you were

1:29:17

at your headspace. And that's all

1:29:19

me. To this day, it is

1:29:22

all me because of my lack

1:29:24

of communication. Because I didn't give

1:29:26

a shit about dropping the title.

1:29:28

The storyline, but my whole thought

1:29:30

was Vince, we are just getting

1:29:32

red hot. We got together in

1:29:34

January and now it is July,

1:29:36

six months. Let us stay together

1:29:38

and really build this relationship and

1:29:40

let's go do another song and

1:29:43

keep this thing rolling and see

1:29:45

where it takes us. I didn't

1:29:47

have all the answers. He's admitted

1:29:49

he did. neither, which I went

1:29:51

that day in Nashville. That's, are

1:29:53

you sure? You don't want to

1:29:55

just kind of, because we're jumping,

1:29:57

we're doing full blown heel here.

1:29:59

Can we just kind of move

1:30:01

on through? I mean, you know,

1:30:03

in your house, paper view, it

1:30:06

was a two hour paper view,

1:30:08

me and Sean went 20 to

1:30:10

30, the recording was whatever, 10

1:30:12

to 15. So I had. 45

1:30:14

minutes to an hour of a

1:30:16

two hour paper view. There's, I

1:30:18

mean, there was a lot of

1:30:20

it vested in double J. I

1:30:22

just wanted to just not turn

1:30:24

full blown and keep this thing

1:30:27

going. I didn't articulate that enough.

1:30:29

I didn't communicate that enough. And

1:30:31

so as far as a concession,

1:30:33

all I would have all I

1:30:35

asked was, hey, Beth, do we

1:30:37

have to do the turn tonight?

1:30:39

Because I think if we wait

1:30:41

and really blow this thing out.

1:30:43

it will be even bigger. He

1:30:45

didn't hear what I was saying

1:30:47

because, and look, you know, hindsight

1:30:50

is 2020, but we were in

1:30:52

the room when I went back

1:30:54

at his house. He's like, you

1:30:56

know, I didn't think you were

1:30:58

that up in arms about it.

1:31:00

And once things went downhill and

1:31:02

you know, he did say you

1:31:04

didn't return my call and things

1:31:06

were going south and you were

1:31:08

upset, then I got upset. and

1:31:10

then everybody got involved and everybody

1:31:13

was pissed off at you job

1:31:15

because they already had things planned

1:31:17

and it just kind of spiraled

1:31:19

out of control. But Conrad had

1:31:21

I stayed there and like you

1:31:23

said, maybe had another I see

1:31:25

run or moved into the judicial

1:31:27

slot, moved up the card even

1:31:29

more and had that run and

1:31:31

then you kind of think about,

1:31:34

okay, so I stayed, I wouldn't

1:31:36

have gone back and then I

1:31:38

wouldn't have, there's so many what

1:31:40

ifs on this one decision. July

1:31:42

of 95 that I walked out.

1:31:44

I think it's safe to say

1:31:46

I don't think T&A would have

1:31:48

ever been started and then when

1:31:50

I think of about that opportunity.

1:31:52

Oh, shit, Conrad. It is, what

1:31:54

a life experience. Not many, I

1:31:57

mean, Richard Scrucci, the Carters, Dealing.

1:31:59

Let's talk about that. Hang time

1:32:01

out for a minute, because there's

1:32:03

another what if. I want to

1:32:05

ask. No. That's why you got

1:32:07

to cut me out. There's so

1:32:09

many things that avenues we could

1:32:11

go down. Anyway, go ahead. Let's

1:32:13

talk about Jim Ross. We know

1:32:15

that you and he come to

1:32:18

an impasse in October of 99

1:32:20

was covered in the archives. Your

1:32:22

contract expired after you'd had your

1:32:24

money cut and the WWF is

1:32:26

selling out everywhere they go and

1:32:28

now you're going to show up

1:32:30

in Cleveland and you've got the

1:32:32

belt and it's in your car

1:32:34

with all your wrestling gear and

1:32:36

well that stories in the archives.