0:00

Nordstrom brings you the

0:02

season's most wanted brands. Skims,

0:04

mango, free people, and Princess

0:06

Polly, all under $100. From

0:09

trending sneakers to beauty must-haves,

0:11

we've curated the styles you'll

0:13

wear on repeat this spring.

0:15

Free shipping, free returns, and

0:17

in-store pickup make it easier

0:20

than ever. Shop now in

0:22

stores and at Nordstrom.com. This

0:27

episode is brought to you by

0:29

Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part

0:31

of getting sick is the getting

0:33

better part. Waiting on hold for

0:35

an appointment, sitting in crowded waiting

0:37

rooms, standing in line with the

0:39

pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical

0:41

and Amazon Pharmacy remove those painful

0:43

parts of getting better with things

0:45

like 24-7 virtual visits and prescriptions

0:47

delivered to your door. Thanks to

0:49

Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical,

0:51

healthcare just got less painful. my

1:18

worst date I'm Cassie. I'm

1:21

Keegan and I'm Christina

1:23

and I have got

1:25

a situation for you. I

1:27

would like to get

1:29

your opinions on what

1:31

you would do if you

1:33

found yourself in this

1:36

situation. Okay. So this person

1:38

says me and my

1:40

girlfriends there are 27 and

1:43

26 have been together for

1:45

about a year. though we

1:47

still live apart. Two weeks ago

1:49

I received a phone call asking

1:51

if I was trying to use

1:53

my credit card about 200 miles

1:56

away. Hmm, nope. I immediately said

1:58

no and to lie. my credit

2:00

card. They did and told me

2:02

they would reissue a new card.

2:04

Last week I noticed an automatic

2:06

payment I have tied to my card

2:08

went through. I thought that was weird

2:11

so I called my credit card company.

2:13

They said there was no sign of

2:15

fraud on my account. I thought

2:18

about it a bit more and

2:20

my girlfriend has family in the

2:22

city where they blocked the transaction.

2:25

I checked my credit report and

2:27

there it was a credit card

2:30

I've never seen before. No. My

2:32

name is on it, but the

2:34

address is my girlfriend's house. No.

2:36

When I talked to her about

2:38

it, she said she's never seen

2:41

it and knows nothing about it.

2:43

Yesterday I was able to

2:45

call the credit card company

2:48

and get a list of

2:50

charges. Almost all of them

2:52

are places she frequents, hair

2:54

salon, restaurant, coffee shop, supermarket,

2:56

everything. She came over last

2:58

night and I called her

3:00

on it and showed her

3:02

the list of charges. It

3:05

adds up to more than

3:07

$4,000. No. She still denied

3:09

everything I told her it wouldn't be

3:11

hard to get surveillance footage of the

3:13

person using the card Especially at the

3:16

supermarkets, and she absolutely went off on

3:18

me She called me controlling jealous and

3:20

an awful person She left and texted

3:22

me to call her when I've decided

3:25

to grow up. Okay, okay. So that's

3:27

projection. Yeah, because if you really had

3:29

nothing to do with it You would

3:31

want him to get to the bottom

3:34

of it. I would I'd be like

3:36

oh absolutely like You know, because most

3:38

likely, if it's from the town that

3:41

you're from, if they're using your address,

3:43

and it's not me doing it, I

3:45

would be like, I 100% want to

3:48

know who's doing this because it's probably

3:50

someone connected to me. Yeah. I want

3:52

to know. So $4,000? Yes, and she's

3:54

absolutely guilty. Oh, there's no way she's

3:57

not because you do not respond that

3:59

way. No, this 100% bullshit.

4:01

Well, so there's an

4:04

update. He decides to

4:06

break up with her.

4:08

He puts all of her

4:11

stuff into a box and

4:13

has it shipped to her

4:16

house. He changes the access

4:18

code on his security system

4:20

and door locks. You know, calls

4:23

her, says, I'm sending you all

4:25

your things, we're through. She said

4:27

I was making a horrible mistake,

4:29

then apologized, then said we can

4:31

work through it. Can we? Hung

4:33

up and block her. He drives to

4:35

the sheriff's department. He's like crying.

4:38

He's really shook up about this.

4:40

Yeah. You were in a relationship

4:42

for a year. I'm sure there's

4:44

love there. Yeah. Once I got there,

4:46

the deputy was super polite and

4:49

said it happens more than you

4:51

think. took a report the next

4:53

day pounding at the door

4:55

it's the X she's demanding

4:58

to talk through the door

5:00

I told her to leave

5:02

she refuses five minutes straight

5:04

pounding on the door getting

5:06

violent kicking the door yelling

5:08

obscenities terrifying no he calls

5:10

911 mm-hmm Deputy comes

5:13

and basically like trespasses her

5:15

from the property and he

5:17

hasn't heard from her since.

5:19

But the thing, the reason

5:21

why I brought this up

5:23

was because of the deputy

5:26

saying this happens more than you

5:28

think. No, I'll tell you what.

5:30

I'm gonna be alone forever. I hear

5:32

you. I hear you, I hear you.

5:35

But check your credit report

5:37

often. Legate. Like I just,

5:39

I can't. He was

5:41

with her for a year.

5:43

That is so fraudulent. Like

5:46

for me, so I'm very, like

5:48

in my youth I might have been

5:51

irresponsible with funds

5:53

and that kind of thing,

5:56

stretched a dollar to make

5:58

things happen, maybe. I paid

6:00

an electric bill late or two in

6:02

my time. Absolutely. about we all?

6:04

Maybe one time I got a TJ

6:06

Maxx card, spent $500 and

6:08

never paid it. I don't know,

6:10

maybe I did. Maybe I did, maybe

6:13

I didn't. You're like, I don't

6:15

remember. However. However,

6:18

grown up me

6:20

is very much

6:22

like pay everything. Like

6:24

everything's auto pay,

6:27

everything's budgeted, everything's like

6:29

set and like

6:31

financial irresponsibility gives me like

6:33

a huge dick. But this

6:36

goes beyond irresponsibility. This

6:38

is fucking fraud. Yep. It's

6:40

fraud, yeah. It is

6:42

a huge breach of trust.

6:44

It is theft, thievery,

6:47

1000%. How

6:50

could you even think of doing,

6:52

never in my life has it ever

6:54

occurred to me to open a

6:56

credit card in someone else's name? Never.

6:58

What about those parents that do

7:00

it to their fucking kids? That happened

7:03

to my dad. Oh God.

7:05

Yeah, cause my dad was a

7:07

junior. So he had

7:09

the exact same name as his

7:11

father. And that's why my dad

7:13

legally changed his last name because

7:16

having the same name as his

7:18

dad, his dad took, destroyed his

7:20

credit by the time he was

7:22

like in his mid twenties. Jesus.

7:24

He was buying cars like with my

7:26

dad's name and all kinds

7:28

of things. It's horrible, horrible,

7:31

horrible. Wow. Yeah, you

7:33

were literally, because of

7:35

the way that our society

7:37

runs, you know,

7:39

and like how much

7:41

bad credit can prohibit

7:44

you from being able

7:46

to do anything. Right.

7:48

From buying a house to,

7:50

you know, buying a

7:52

car, like getting anywhere, it's

7:55

so to me. And the

7:57

fact that you laid your head.

8:00

next to him at night, like,

8:02

and racked up $4,000 of his

8:04

money? I don't even have $4,000

8:06

on my own credit card. Like,

8:08

you know, like, I'm just like,

8:10

what are you doing? Yeah, I just

8:12

think it's, it's sociopath

8:14

behavior, where you're just

8:17

like, what do you think's

8:19

gonna happen? He's gonna find

8:21

out eventually, right? You know

8:23

what I mean. Yeah.

8:25

And try to use those

8:27

like narcissistic tactics where you

8:29

turn it on the other person.

8:32

Actually, this is your fault. Yeah.

8:34

Yeah. Well, it's kind of the

8:36

same thing we were talking about

8:38

before we started recording about

8:40

that chick face that was

8:43

married to the ghost hunter dude.

8:45

That's denied, denied, denied. Texts

8:47

that she wrote to that

8:50

hit man. Basically, like plotting

8:52

murder. No people who have

8:54

the ability because that apple

8:56

cider vinegar woman to the

8:59

bell bell Gibson it's just

9:01

like guys there's proof like

9:03

continuing to Deny it Whenever you're

9:05

faced with like the cold hard

9:08

facts like it is the maggaway

9:10

you have them even people you

9:12

have them on like Voice recording

9:14

sometimes like you watch those

9:17

date lines and they're playing

9:19

back Conversations you have had

9:21

and you're like I don't

9:23

recall I don't know what

9:25

do you win what do

9:27

you in Congress? I don't

9:29

recall I mean I just

9:31

I don't know like I've

9:33

never I feel like if you're

9:36

gonna lie like I feel like

9:38

if you're gonna lie like

9:40

be smart lie better Lie better.

9:42

Yeah, but no, I just my or

9:44

don't just keep getting caught in

9:46

a way that I couldn't I feel

9:48

guilty about shit I absolutely shouldn't

9:51

feel guilty about in my life.

9:53

You know what I mean? Like

9:56

I feel guilty about hurting people's

9:58

feelings even when her their feelings

10:00

was necessary, you know? So there

10:03

is no way that I could

10:05

live with myself baking to someone's

10:07

face that way, you know, while

10:10

doing them dirty like that. It's

10:12

like the tainted love that I

10:14

told last episode where I'm just

10:17

like, how could this guy... For

10:19

a year like be in a

10:21

relationship with this person know that

10:24

it's not real for you But

10:26

it is very very very real

10:29

for the other person right like

10:31

their emotions are tied up in

10:33

it their future is tied up

10:36

in it like All that stuff.

10:38

It's like outside of the financial

10:40

impact or whatever it is the

10:43

emotional impact that the time it

10:45

takes to recover like emotionally spiritually

10:47

mentally mentally mentally mentally from that

10:50

kind of deception is Real like

10:52

you're really you're giving them baggage.

10:54

You're fucking up their life Yeah,

10:57

yeah, you're giving them credit card

10:59

debt decreasing their credit score You

11:01

know that shit that shit is

11:04

real. Yeah, I have a competition

11:06

going right now on higher credit

11:09

score and it's It's amazing. I

11:11

love it like I can't even

11:13

imagine Like being with somebody that

11:16

was hiding Even like hiding debt

11:18

or whatever, like those kind of

11:20

secret, I don't know. I don't

11:23

know. Anyways. Yeah. The things are

11:25

hard enough out there right now.

11:27

I think that if you're in

11:30

a relationship, it should be the

11:32

one place that you feel safe

11:34

or you feel. Yeah, you know,

11:37

along those lines, we all know

11:39

how I feel about pranks. So,

11:41

um, I hate a prank. Right.

11:44

So April Fool's, not for me.

11:46

It's not the holiday for me.

11:48

So I did choose. It's the

11:51

chugiest thing ever. Like people that

11:53

do cheuggy, like April Fool's. Joe

11:56

I'm just like so over it

11:58

so over it did we not

12:00

yet truly like I'm just like

12:03

I don't why do we need

12:05

a day for this like I

12:07

life is hard enough don't like

12:10

I'm tired but I did see

12:12

on a red it I saw

12:14

like a girl saying that She

12:17

was pranked quote-unquote by I think

12:19

it was like an am I

12:21

over reacting or something like that

12:24

and it's always like no It's

12:26

always people who is like obviously

12:28

no, you're not like it's you

12:31

being treated the worst a human being

12:33

has ever been treated before and then

12:35

you're like am I over reacting? No

12:37

So she said that on April 1st

12:39

her boyfriend like came to her

12:41

like sat her down tears in his

12:43

eyes was like I need to tell

12:46

you something like this is really hard

12:48

for me to say so she's like

12:50

she's she's being very serious like it's

12:52

okay like holding his hand you know trying

12:54

to comfort and soothe him and

12:56

he tells her that he cheated

12:58

on her with her his friend's

13:01

girlfriend And she'd been cheated on

13:03

the past. Oh, she had told

13:05

him that she doesn't like, like

13:07

pranks, like all this stuff. No.

13:09

He let, he let, she's like, I

13:11

need time to myself all day, all day.

13:13

He let her believe this. She calls

13:16

the friend that and is just

13:18

like, did you know that like

13:20

your girlfriend and my boyfriend like

13:23

cheated with each other? And the friend

13:25

says, oh no, he didn't do that

13:27

did that did he didn't do that

13:29

did he? Did he? Like he

13:31

didn't really do that. I told

13:33

him not to. What a fucking.

13:36

And all day, he let her

13:38

believe this and then she

13:40

goes into the backyard that

13:42

evening and he's got like

13:44

an April Fool's, like a

13:46

big dinner, big spread, candles,

13:48

all romantic and shit. And

13:50

she's like, you've got to

13:52

be fucking kidding me. No.

13:54

And so she's like, I'm

13:56

not doing this. She broke

13:58

up with him. But this

14:00

isn't funny. No, and if you've

14:03

ever been cheated on before and

14:05

you know that feeling, it is

14:07

so fucking visceral and so awful.

14:09

It's the nausea, it's the heat

14:12

in your face. It's such an

14:14

awful feeling. That moment when you're

14:16

like, oh, I've been betrayed. It's

14:18

with someone you know to and

14:21

then you know and so she

14:23

was also saying like I don't

14:25

know how to handle this because

14:27

we share a friend group and

14:30

I don't want to make them

14:32

take sides. She's really young. She

14:34

was like 21 or whatever. Who

14:36

cares? I'm on your side. I'm

14:39

on your side. And if they're

14:41

not then you know like listen.

14:43

And when breakups happen, sometimes something

14:45

we don't talk about enough is

14:48

like you might lose friends. Like

14:50

that is just kind of the

14:52

way that it goes sometimes. Like

14:54

you might lose friends. It's not

14:57

going to be the same after

14:59

the breakup. It never is. But

15:01

she was saying that the his

15:03

friend and the girlfriend were on

15:06

her side because the girlfriend didn't

15:08

consent to be part of this.

15:10

No. I didn't like agree for

15:12

you to use my name and

15:15

say that we were cheating. What

15:17

are you thinking? What were you

15:19

thinking? Well, even that guy, basically

15:21

being like, I told him not

15:24

to do that, you know, like,

15:26

oh my goodness. You know, it's,

15:28

pranks are mean-spirited. You're tricking somebody.

15:30

And you're, you're provoking an emotional

15:33

response. It's cruel. Like here's a,

15:35

here's the thing. Here's something funny

15:37

that could be I guess construed

15:39

as a prank Eric Running through

15:42

the door going search for it.

15:44

You know what I mean? Like

15:46

we did talk about that. Yeah

15:48

like startling or being like boo

15:51

boo or whatever Yeah love it,

15:53

but it's also it's like It's

15:55

temporary. It's one little like moment

15:57

and then oh he recovered from

16:00

it. You're not you're not emotionally

16:02

manipulating me. Yeah, right like what

16:04

he did wasn't a prank. You're

16:06

absolutely right. It was like it

16:09

was cruelty. It was like deliberate

16:11

emotional manipulation and the fact that

16:13

he can't see that is actually

16:15

very scary. Yeah. That's the fact

16:18

that he let her spend all

16:20

day like when he saw how

16:22

upset and how distressed she was.

16:24

Even if he had made, it

16:27

was dumb of him to do

16:29

it at all. Right. As soon

16:31

as he saw that she was

16:33

legitimately upset, prank over. Like, you

16:36

know what I mean? Then you

16:38

say, oh my gosh, oh no,

16:40

no, no, no, no. Like, I'm

16:42

joking, like, this was a joke.

16:45

I was meant to be funny,

16:47

sorry, I'm so stupid. You know,

16:49

like, that's what you do. That's

16:51

right. You don't let it go

16:54

all fucking day. And then like

16:56

our shoulders like you don't know

16:58

why she's mad. Like, yeah, the

17:00

divorce came out of nowhere. Exactly.

17:03

Exactly. I don't know what I

17:05

did. What on the clue? What

17:07

could I say? She's crazy. She's

17:09

overreacting. Okay. Because you know he's

17:12

gonna reframe that story to be

17:14

like. Yeah I played an April

17:16

Fool's Day joke on her and

17:18

she broke up with me. And

17:21

then I did this elaborate dinner

17:23

and blah blah blah yeah I

17:25

don't miss dating at all. No.

17:27

Nightmar. People are a nightmare. People

17:30

are a nightmare. People are a

17:32

nightmare. And that's why we have

17:34

this podcast. I know no shortage

17:36

of material. That's for sure we're

17:39

going on year seven now. Yeah,

17:41

and Yeah, just it's it keeps

17:43

coming So I know last week

17:45

we did Character actress Mm-hmm. I

17:48

think we should do character actors

17:50

character actors. Yes, there are so

17:52

many of them now for the

17:54

listeners. Now for the listeners. We

17:57

are so many of them now

17:59

for the listeners. So I have

18:01

not watched Tell me you love

18:03

me if you listen to two

18:06

classes. Expect, expect a delayed update

18:08

on that information, but it will

18:10

be a coming. So, um, yeah,

18:12

completely trust and believe that I

18:15

will deliver on that. I need

18:17

a text immediately as soon as

18:19

I'm going. Oh, oh, it's going

18:21

in the group, group text

18:24

for sure. Yeah, I'm, I'm

18:26

definitely going to live react.

18:28

Who are you doing? Great,

18:30

love it. I love him.

18:32

He's super funny. I

18:35

have to, I'm gonna look

18:37

up his sign so that

18:39

we don't have to

18:42

do this later. Okay.

18:44

Um, hmm, who do I

18:46

wanna do? I think I'm

18:48

gonna do J.K. Simmons.

18:51

I love this. I love this. I love

18:53

this. I do too. I do too.

18:55

He kind of scares me just a

18:58

teeny tiny bit. Maybe it's because I

19:00

saw Whiplash, I don't know. But he's

19:02

so endearing as the dad in Juneau.

19:05

And I really feel like he can

19:07

almost do anything. Yeah. I'm sorry,

19:09

I gotta go with Taturo. Got to.

19:11

I knew you were going to, which is

19:13

why I didn't. Okay. Yeah. So

19:15

underrated. Nobody folks with the

19:18

Jesus. Yeah, and he's just

19:20

hit after hit forever, you

19:22

know. Truly. So he was

19:24

in do the right thing

19:27

too, wasn't he? Yes. It's

19:29

been ages since I've seen

19:31

to do the right thing.

19:33

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

19:35

I think, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

19:37

John C. Riley is a

19:40

Gemini. Okay, Jakely. No, no,

19:42

Jay K. Simmons is

19:45

a Capricorn and I

19:47

believe that believable He

19:50

gives good Capricorn

19:52

energy. Yeah Okay, and

19:54

Taturo it looks like is

19:57

a God when you

19:59

look up Astrology, it's

20:01

like, okay, he's a Pisces.

20:03

He's a February Pisces, February

20:05

28. You know what? He

20:08

has a gentleness about him

20:10

that I buy as a

20:12

Pisces. Okay, a Pisces, a

20:14

Gemini, and a Capricorn. So

20:16

we've got first air and

20:18

water. Yeah, oh, I like

20:20

this too. This is tough.

20:22

You know, it is actually

20:24

tough because I. swore I

20:27

would never date a Pisces

20:29

again. But John Taturo has

20:31

such good energy. Doesn't he?

20:33

Like, he does. He's got

20:35

good chill partner energy. Did

20:37

you see there was like

20:39

a tick-tock or a clip

20:41

of him walking some fashion

20:43

show? Oh my goodness. Yeah.

20:45

I just I think he's

20:48

so and there is like

20:50

a weird quirkiness about him

20:52

like I wouldn't say off

20:54

the cuff that he's handsome

20:56

but there's like a weird

20:58

quirky attractiveness yeah about him

21:00

that I love him on

21:02

the zinco runway is yeah

21:04

it's giving yes yeah you

21:07

have to look it up

21:09

but I'm like so hot

21:11

I was like oh See

21:13

right he's been with his

21:15

spouse since 1985 and I

21:17

yes love that Yeah, I

21:19

see being able to wear

21:21

sweats and him giving amazing

21:23

foot rubs Yeah, oh yeah

21:25

I see him being able

21:28

to make like the greatest

21:30

pasta prima vera of all

21:32

time I see him like

21:34

With his apron on in

21:36

the kitchen, just chopping vegetable,

21:38

like, I see a whole

21:40

life with John Taturo. I

21:42

really do. Yeah, he's got

21:44

the most domestic. vibe yes

21:47

I think of the three

21:49

comfy but but also like

21:51

well well stocked well it's

21:53

just a nice cozy wonderful

21:55

vibe yeah yeah yeah yeah

21:57

yeah I know what I'm

21:59

gonna do okay you can

22:01

still still dress up and

22:03

go out on the town

22:05

and just fucking sleigh Yeah,

22:08

he looks good in a

22:10

suit. He's got that physique

22:12

I like or he's like

22:14

tall and skinny. Yes. In

22:16

a well tailored suit. Looks

22:18

good. Yeah. I'm going to

22:20

marry J.K. Simmons. I knew

22:22

you were because he's a

22:24

Capricorn and those are good

22:27

for you. They're stable. For

22:29

me. I love the stability.

22:31

I love somebody who's earthy

22:33

and grounded and... I can

22:35

be snorke and then not

22:37

take it seriously. He can

22:39

be snarky. Yeah, exactly. He's

22:41

got a snarkiness about him.

22:43

Is he a December or

22:45

January Capricorn? Let's find out.

22:48

He is a January. He's

22:50

on the cusp. Okay. His

22:52

birthday is January 21st. Oh,

22:54

okay. Wow, okay. So, like

22:56

last day of Capricorn. Yikes.

22:58

All right. I mean, I

23:00

see it. No, I see

23:02

it. I see it though.

23:04

But that's. I'm still sticking

23:07

with it because I, I,

23:09

because he does have that

23:11

bit of energy to him

23:13

too, like heading into Aquarius

23:15

Energy, which I, I see.

23:17

But I'm sticking with it.

23:19

I like JK Simmons. He

23:21

seems like somebody who would,

23:23

you know what? we're just

23:25

gonna take care of business

23:28

bed rot this weekend but

23:30

then oh yeah let's get

23:32

shit together like let's get

23:34

this place cleaned up and

23:36

you know what I mean

23:38

like I feel like he's

23:40

got a little bit of

23:42

both and him you know

23:44

what I mean like he

23:47

could be flexible but also

23:49

to like he means business

23:51

when he means business like

23:53

there's no questions and I

23:55

think that's what I love

23:57

about Capricorn there's not a

23:59

lot of like wishy-washiness which

24:01

I know I like I

24:03

like somebody who I like

24:05

somebody who I can read

24:08

immediately and know exactly where

24:10

I stand and I think

24:12

jk Simmons is gonna offer

24:14

that yes I agree I

24:16

am gonna fuck John tutorial

24:19

because I mean he just seems like

24:21

a good time and he's piscies

24:23

and we know his piscies confide

24:26

I think that John Taturo

24:28

would be the kind of

24:30

person in the sack that

24:32

is able to maintain an

24:34

extremely slow pace to

24:37

the point where you lose your

24:39

fucking mind. Do you

24:41

know what I mean where

24:43

you're like? Yes, I do.

24:45

The tension builds so much.

24:48

Like I see him with

24:50

such control. That's a good

24:52

orgasm. Like when it finally

24:54

happens. I like it though. I

24:56

like it. I like it. He

24:58

also has that like third leg

25:00

physique. You know what I mean? Like

25:03

when there's that. That's the name

25:05

of this episode. You gotta stop

25:07

doing this to me. I feel

25:10

like the names of the episodes

25:12

have started becoming like more and

25:15

more like vulgar. I like it

25:17

though. I like the little mystery.

25:19

I like it. You guys. I

25:22

saw. I saw a tick-talk with

25:24

a man who must have been

25:26

no younger than 68 years old

25:29

and is the old man and

25:31

he is pointing out his garden

25:33

and I showed it to

25:35

Eric and he's like why

25:38

are you showing this to

25:40

me or whatever is just

25:42

some old man talking about

25:44

his garden when I tell

25:46

you the comment section I

25:48

opened it up and someone

25:50

said someone said what in

25:52

God's green girth is happening?

25:54

Because it had a shadow.

25:56

It had a fucking shadow.

25:58

Stop! Stop! It's crazy! And

26:00

someone's like, that's why

26:02

grandma's in a wheelchair.

26:05

Sometimes I just said you

26:07

shit because the comments are so

26:09

fucking. The cough. Oh my God. Oh

26:11

my God. Oh my God. Oh my

26:14

God. So fucking. I'm sending it to

26:16

you right now. I'm sending you to

26:18

you right fucking meow. Because you will

26:21

die. I was laughing so hard at

26:23

the comments and this poor, I swear

26:25

to God he's like 68 years old.

26:27

Just talking about his garden. He's like

26:30

showing you the garden. Yeah, exactly. Oh

26:32

my God, too much. Well, John C.

26:34

Riley, I'm going to be friends with

26:37

because I can absolutely see it.

26:39

But here's the reason I didn't

26:41

marry the Jimenine this time. He's

26:43

giving chaotic Gemini. It's a little

26:46

chaos. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so here's

26:48

what I'm gonna do. And for

26:51

better or worse, because I don't

26:53

know how this is gonna go. Like

26:55

I said, I've dated a Pisces

26:57

before, I didn't go well. Junctatura

27:00

does seem to be a

27:02

little bit more focused than

27:04

my past Pisces. So I'm gonna

27:07

risk it because of these three.

27:09

He just feels like the

27:11

most he is giving soft

27:14

life Yeah, soft life for

27:16

me like I'm gonna

27:18

fuck j k Simmons

27:21

because there is an

27:23

aggressiveness. Yes There is like

27:25

a strong energy in in him

27:27

that like I find hot I

27:29

think that he would be very

27:31

comfortable degrading me in the way

27:33

that I asked to be. That

27:35

I want to. Yes, exactly, precisely.

27:38

Yeah, it's not going to take

27:40

too much prodding. You're not going

27:42

to have to like bait. You're

27:44

going to only have to ask

27:46

once to be choked. You're going

27:48

to only have to ask once

27:50

to be choked. You know what

27:52

I mean? Yes. You're not going

27:54

to have to like prod him

27:56

into it. He's on it. And he's

27:58

like, whatever you want, I'm here. about

28:00

him. So I think that's gonna be

28:02

a real good experience for

28:04

me. And then yeah, I'm gonna friend

28:06

John C. Riley. He's a little, I

28:09

think he would just be a little

28:11

too much for me every day. Like

28:13

some days I need to just like

28:15

chill. And I feel like he's not

28:17

much of a chiller. So I think

28:20

that that would be difficult, but I

28:22

think going out with him would be

28:24

really fun. I think going to karaoke

28:27

with him would be really fun. The

28:29

bus. Yeah, he's a good person to

28:31

have at the dinner party. Oh yeah,

28:33

he's gonna keep that combo going.

28:35

Yes, and he's gonna be, he's

28:38

the one friend to like, if

28:40

you're having a party and you've

28:42

got like multiple different groups from

28:44

like different walks of life, you

28:46

bring a John C. Riley into

28:49

that mix, he's gonna, he's gonna

28:51

make everybody comfortable. Yeah, he's

28:53

a cocktail stir. Yeah, love it.

28:55

But yeah, good one. I'm gonna,

28:58

yeah, I'm gonna do the same

29:00

thing as you Keegan, like a

29:02

hundred percent, that is perfection. Did

29:04

you guys, did you guys see

29:07

it? I sent it over to

29:09

you. Oh God, no, okay. No,

29:11

you don't have to look. You

29:13

have to look right now. Oh,

29:16

baby. Oh, man. You can see

29:18

it. What? Oh, holy. Isn't

29:20

it? He's uncomfortable.

29:23

Like, that. Honey. Honey.

29:25

You know. Poor man,

29:27

he's had to

29:30

live his whole

29:32

life with a

29:34

dick that big.

29:36

Dude, I know,

29:39

it really is

29:41

third leg physically.

29:43

Good more, straight

29:45

to the comments.

29:47

Yeah. Oh, oh, oh

29:50

no. Miracle grow.

29:52

Miracle place.

29:54

Oh no! Congratulations

29:57

to Mama! Oh

30:00

my god. Oh my god.

30:02

Oh my god. But do

30:04

you think that, like, this

30:07

poor guy, like, oh,

30:09

poor guy was big.

30:11

No, I've broken up

30:14

with somebody because they

30:16

were too big. It's

30:18

true. Yeah. I kept getting

30:21

UTIs. I'm serious. I'm not being

30:23

funny. He was so big. Every

30:25

time we slept together, I would

30:28

get a UTI. It's like women

30:30

who have like really large beautiful

30:32

breasts. Yeah. And like everybody's just

30:35

like, oh, you're so like, you're

30:37

so blessed to have like big

30:39

boobs. And in like, meanwhile, they

30:41

have crazy back problems and all

30:44

they want is a breast reduction.

30:46

Yeah. You know? So like. I

30:48

feel you. Well, I don't because

30:50

I've never been bigger than like a

30:53

B cup, but no. But yeah, that,

30:55

yeah. I mean, it's a blessing and

30:57

a curse, right? I mean, yeah. There

30:59

we go. Well, you guys want to

31:02

take five and then we'll come back

31:04

with stories. Hey, I'm Stacey and

31:06

I'm Alicia. And we make trashy

31:08

royals. Every Thursday we come together

31:10

to reveal and revel in the

31:13

tales of our betters behaving badly.

31:15

Each week we dive into all

31:17

the dirty details of a knotty

31:20

noble or nobles with an emphasis

31:22

on the personalities, scandals and skull

31:24

duggery that have always made for

31:27

delicious come-upences. Like your history focused

31:29

on strong female leads without all

31:31

the big battles and military drama?

31:34

Check out trashy royals every Thursday.

31:36

Anywhere you listen to podcasts. What

31:38

if I told you that right now millions

31:40

of people are living with a debilitating

31:42

condition that's so misunderstood? Many of them

31:44

don't even know that they have it.

31:47

That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder or

31:49

OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath the chief

31:51

clinical officer of NoCD and in the

31:53

25 years I've been treating OCD. I've

31:55

met so many people who are suffering

31:57

from the condition in silence unaware. of

32:00

just what it was. OCD can

32:02

create overwhelming anxiety and fear around

32:04

what you value most, make you

32:06

question your identity, beliefs, and morals,

32:08

and drive you to perform mentally

32:10

and physically draining compulsions or rituals.

32:12

Over my career, I've seen just

32:14

how devastating OCD can be when

32:16

it's left untreated. But help is

32:18

available. That's where NoCD comes

32:20

in. NoCD is the world's

32:23

largest virtual therapy provider for

32:25

obsessive compulsive disorder. Our licensed

32:28

therapists are trained in exposure

32:30

and response prevention therapy. A

32:33

specialized treatment proven to be

32:35

incredibly effective for OCD. So

32:37

visit NoCD.com to schedule a

32:40

free 15-minute call with our team. That's

32:42

N-O-CD.com. And we're back. Okay, Cass. Okay,

32:44

so I'll kick us off with stories.

32:46

This story I found is... Precious

32:49

and it is clearly a

32:51

throwback story My dad's my

32:53

dad's 1959 Chrysler Imperial

32:56

is the main character here

32:58

It was the pinnacle of

33:00

obscene excess in the era

33:03

of huge fins and new

33:05

prosperity. I was

33:07

a 17 year old student

33:09

in the minor seminary dating

33:11

forbidden which added excitement

33:14

to my first outing with

33:16

a girl any girl Lynn

33:18

was the daughter of my

33:21

parents best friend dad let

33:23

me take the imperial the

33:25

date with the date plan

33:27

was to ride around in

33:29

the amazing red car I

33:31

picked up Lynn who was wearing

33:34

short shorts we stopped by Dairy

33:36

Queen and got moltz I mean

33:38

this is so old school date

33:40

you know it's a classic of

33:42

molt balance both our maults on

33:44

her knee for a moment so

33:47

that I could concentrate on getting

33:49

back on the road. So you

33:51

should need to know like this

33:53

car is a monster. Right? Like

33:55

we see you're fucking huge. It's

33:58

like the size of Baltimore. So

34:00

now you also have to know

34:02

that the imperial had a push

34:04

button transmission. You had to put

34:07

your foot on the break, select

34:09

the button, and voila, motion. I

34:11

was distracted. I didn't put my

34:13

foot on the break. I just

34:15

punched D. And the gorgeous car

34:17

lurched like a bronco. Spilling both

34:20

maults on Lynn's bare eyes. Lynn

34:22

screamed. I slammed on the brakes.

34:24

The remaining liquid now covered her

34:26

knees. She cried shit. And an

34:28

era when few girls did. I found

34:31

rags in the trunk. She

34:33

cleaned up, sort of, and

34:35

we tossed the empty paper

34:38

cups. The ride back was

34:40

quiet for about five

34:42

minutes. Lynn broke the

34:45

silence. David, I think

34:47

you're just going to have

34:49

to go through with this

34:51

priest thing. Lynn lives in

34:53

Patagonia now with a huge

34:55

cattle ranch and her second

34:57

husband. We haven't seen each

34:59

other in over 50 years,

35:01

but I'll bet she still remembers

35:03

the imperial and the maults. Oh,

35:05

that's cute. That's so wholesome. Yeah.

35:08

Like given the bad dates we've

35:10

told on this practice, that is

35:12

the most wholesome I've ever heard.

35:15

It's so sweet. I was like,

35:17

I have to really smelled the

35:19

maults. Oh my God. Well, mine

35:21

is not as wholesome. Oh. Okay,

35:24

she says, I've been single for

35:26

a couple of years and was

35:28

finally feeling like I had my

35:31

life together enough to look for

35:33

my next Mr. Wright. To increase

35:35

my chances of finding this rare

35:37

specimen, I joined several dating sites.

35:40

Brave. You know, casting a wide

35:42

net. Plenty of fish is responsible

35:44

for this story. Of course it

35:47

is. This fellow's profile listed him

35:49

as a six foot tall

35:51

animal lover, highly successful and

35:54

responsible, while also possessed of

35:56

a child like whimsy that could

35:58

charm the coldest of... hearts. I

36:00

look this is another thing where I'm

36:03

just like I if you've ever been

36:05

I don't know well for pretty much

36:07

a lot of jobs you have to write

36:10

a bio and it's the worst thing

36:12

in the world like nobody likes

36:14

writing a bio no right

36:16

like I can't imagine having

36:18

to talk about myself on a

36:20

dating app you know because it's

36:22

writing that about themselves like awkward.

36:24

It's always awkward. Like whimsy that

36:26

melts the coldest of hearts or

36:28

fucking whatever. Oh my God. Well,

36:30

he didn't say anything like that,

36:32

but I appreciate the fact that

36:34

he was taller than me and

36:36

had a job. Yeah, I mean,

36:38

those are two in the W

36:40

column for sure. His few pictures

36:42

look good to me, so I

36:44

was in. We had chatted for

36:46

a few days online, but not

36:48

wanting to waste time with pointless

36:50

message exchanges if there was no chemistry.

36:53

I began suggesting a brief in-person meaning

36:55

to ensure that we could stand to

36:57

be in the same room for any

36:59

length of time. I got the sense

37:02

from his replies that he would have

37:04

preferred to continue messaging forever and never

37:06

meet, which should have sent me packing,

37:09

but my ability to misread situations is

37:11

unparalleled. Well, and she hasn't been dating

37:13

in a while. Right. You know it

37:15

turned out we lived in the

37:17

same neighborhood. We met at a

37:20

nearby bar for drink Now I'm

37:22

a tall woman. I do not

37:24

judge anyone based on their height

37:26

I do however judge those who

37:28

lie about their height I'm 5-11

37:31

and this gentleman who claimed to

37:33

be six feet tall was several

37:35

inches shorter than me Why why do

37:37

you do it? You know? I had

37:39

arrived first and was seated at a

37:42

table. When I stood to shake his

37:44

hand, I was treated with a clear

37:46

view of the top of his balding

37:48

head. Still feeling game, I was

37:50

willing to set the small fib

37:52

aside. After all, doesn't everybody sometimes

37:54

feel inadequate and try to make

37:56

up for it in silly ways?

37:58

Like adding a few... inches to

38:00

your height. I resolved to not

38:03

mention it and give him a

38:05

fair chance. He launched into conversation

38:07

immediately, telling me in great detail

38:10

about his day at work. He

38:12

worked as a house painter. He

38:14

painted interior walls of houses. His

38:17

boss had brought beers to the

38:19

site for everyone that day because

38:21

the work on this house was

38:24

now complete. He glibly apologized for

38:26

already having consumed several beers. I

38:28

like to have a good time

38:31

too, work beers. That's a cool

38:33

boss. Good for you for finding

38:35

a job with such cool perks.

38:38

Oh man, I see myself in

38:40

this person, I do. Like as

38:42

much as I could judge. Always

38:45

look on the bright. I can

38:47

make you an excuse for most

38:49

things. I'm like, well, yeah, I'd

38:51

probably do the same thing if

38:54

my boss brought beers into work.

38:56

I probably, you know, like, yeah.

38:58

Next he told me he declined

39:01

an invitation to a wine festival

39:03

that day in order to meet

39:05

me. He was glad though because

39:08

at events like that he always

39:10

got super drunk and lost control.

39:12

I didn't ask for specifics on

39:15

what he meant by lost control.

39:17

My patience levels beginning to drop.

39:19

This guy painted himself as Mr.

39:22

Steady reliable in his profile. We're

39:24

both in our late 30s and

39:26

I'm not looking to meet yet

39:29

another party animal. At this point,

39:31

I mentally assessed the situation. My

39:33

drink was half gone, and my

39:36

date had not yet asked me

39:38

a single question, but he had

39:40

done all the talking. I resolved

39:43

that if the situation hadn't approved,

39:45

by the time I finished my

39:47

drink, I would bolt. Sometime around

39:49

this point, he sighed and rolled

39:52

his eyes, exasperated with life. So

39:54

I have to go to court

39:56

on Monday, he complained. He explained

39:59

to me, with barely concealed pride.

40:01

that he had recently been caught

40:03

doing nearly double the speed limit

40:06

on a major highway. You're really

40:08

over sharing a lot on the

40:10

first date. Super red flags. He

40:13

had to go to court because

40:15

he had amassed a large collection

40:17

of over a thousand dollars of

40:20

unpaid speeding tickets. Bro. Bro. What

40:22

the fuck, dude. My drink wasn't

40:24

yet finished, but I sure was.

40:27

I slapped a 10 on the

40:29

table and stood up to leave

40:31

saying, nice meeting, you gotta go.

40:34

I actually think I ran out

40:36

of there. He managed to text

40:38

to me, you are really weird.

40:41

W-E-E-E-R-D before I blocked him. So

40:43

the letter you, the letter R.

40:45

You're, sir, you are at 38

40:47

years old. You know what I

40:50

mean? Like, what are you doing?

40:52

38 bragging about drinking at work,

40:54

bragging about losing control at wine

40:57

festivals, bragging about speeding tickets. Speeding

40:59

tickets. Speeding tickets. He's a dangerous

41:01

man. I hate it. I just.

41:04

It's a bad boy. Kegan, are

41:06

you intrigued by this bad boy

41:08

behavior? You can fix him. Isn't

41:11

it so cool? And it's so

41:13

like party animal. It's a bad

41:15

book. Gross. Oh. Those are both

41:18

grossing me out. Okay. This is

41:20

a high school story. Night of

41:22

my Junior Prom, May, 1999. I

41:25

managed to pull some strings and

41:27

get us a table at the

41:29

hottest new restaurant in town. It

41:32

was a massive coup to this

41:34

day. I have no idea how

41:36

17 year old me pulled that

41:39

off. Anyway, I was working at

41:41

the local grocery store at the

41:43

time and saved up for like

41:45

a month to make this a

41:48

great night for my date. I'd

41:50

cultivated a pretty good relationship with

41:52

over the course of the last

41:55

few months. Oh. Finally, the night

41:57

comes, the big night comes, and

41:59

we head to the restaurant before

42:02

the dance. Everything is great and

42:04

going exactly as planned. The waiter

42:06

comes and I order a fairly

42:09

decent meal, nothing too extravagant because

42:11

I didn't want to look like

42:13

I was showing off. He turns

42:16

to her and she goes right

42:18

for this $35 in 1999 money,

42:20

salmon fillet. Which how much is

42:23

that now? I feel like a

42:25

lot. Oh my God. Dude, I

42:27

do remember 1999, if I found

42:30

a 20 in my pocket, that

42:32

was like a whole Saturday night.

42:34

Yeah, I'm gonna look it up.

42:37

Okay, is it $35 in 1999?

42:39

worth today. Okay. 66. Yeah. And

42:41

he's 17. He's 17. He's June.

42:43

He's not on a six figure

42:46

salary. He used to like saving

42:48

up his fucking tips. Tips. Yeah,

42:50

or whatever. Yeah. I'm thinking, well,

42:53

that's a little presumptuous, but whatever.

42:55

It's the prom. Can't blame her

42:57

for living it up a little

43:00

bit. Mm-hmm. We start chatting, having

43:02

a great time, and finally the

43:04

food comes. I dig into my

43:07

chicken and it's delicious. I think

43:09

to myself, wow, what a classy

43:11

place. What a classy place. She

43:14

starts on her salmon, takes two

43:16

bites and pushes the plate to

43:18

the middle of the table. I'm

43:21

done. I was like, oh, is

43:23

it raw or something? No, I'm

43:25

just really full. It's really good

43:28

though. And then she calls for

43:30

the check. I asked if she

43:32

doesn't like it here or does

43:35

she want something else? What's the

43:37

problem? Nah, I'm just full. Oh,

43:39

did you have a big lunch?

43:41

No, just not hungry. This place

43:44

is really nice though. The waiter

43:46

asks if she wants him to

43:48

wrap up the salmon and she

43:51

says, no, just toss it. I

43:53

felt like a break. I felt

43:55

like, right? I felt like I

43:58

was on some kind of hidden

44:00

camera show or something. Did people

44:02

actually act like this? So we

44:05

went to the dance, had a

44:07

lovely evening, blah blah blah, never

44:09

called her again after that night,

44:12

but we were still kind of

44:14

friends, I guess. Fast forward a

44:16

year and she comes up to

44:19

me after our graduation ceremony. Hey,

44:21

what happened with us? I felt

44:23

like we had... a little groove

44:26

on last year. I thought prom

44:28

was really great. Why didn't you

44:30

ever ask me out again? I

44:33

told her I was just really

44:35

busy with work in college applications

44:37

and stuff. Oh, okay, I was

44:39

afraid it was about the salmon.

44:42

You see, I kind of bothered

44:44

that I threw it away. Oh,

44:46

that no, I didn't care about

44:49

that. Ha ha. Oh, it is.

44:51

It is. Okay, well good luck

44:53

in college. You too. See you

44:56

too. See you around. See you.

44:58

See you around. If you're out

45:00

there, it was about the salmon.

45:03

It was all about the salmon.

45:05

It was about the fucking salmon.

45:07

Oh my God. Sorry, Kim, dude.

45:10

And she knew it too. She's

45:12

like, what could it have been?

45:14

He did seem a little weird

45:17

about the salmon. Oh God. Listen,

45:19

I love that. We learn those

45:21

things. You know, wasting food is

45:24

bad. you know like I mean

45:26

it's when it's expensive like yes

45:28

I feel like that's when it

45:31

becomes like an issue I mean

45:33

I'll take stuff home anyway you

45:35

know unless it's a thing where

45:37

I'm going somewhere after like going

45:40

to the prom maybe it's hard

45:42

to carry it to go box

45:44

with you or whatever but sure

45:47

but I mean I also was

45:49

the type of kid who I

45:51

never would have ordered something expensive

45:54

on a menu yeah somebody else's

45:56

dime yeah yeah well Eric does,

45:58

if he doesn't like something at

46:01

the restaurant and he doesn't finish

46:03

it, he'll always, if there's too

46:05

much left, he will box it

46:08

up and take it with him

46:10

because he doesn't want to hurt

46:12

the restaurant's feelings. Oh my God! That

46:14

is the most paces thing ever. That's

46:17

freaking so cute. That is so paces

46:19

coded. He doesn't want to have a

46:21

conversation about he didn't like it or

46:24

doesn't, he'll box it up, take it

46:26

with him, and then. Throw it

46:28

away at some point. I've

46:30

been there. I understand. Yeah,

46:32

just the urge to not

46:34

hurt feelings is strong. Yes.

46:36

So strong. Oh, man. I

46:38

did remind me though, Christina

46:40

at my birthday dinner. His

46:42

Christina ate like most, I mean,

46:45

we'd been eating and stuff, but you

46:47

ate like most of your chicken pakata.

46:49

But then you didn't finish it and

46:51

it was like getting ready to be

46:53

taken away. And my friend Jamie, who's

46:55

also a Pisces, was like, no, no.

46:57

And mind you, I don't think Jamie

46:59

and Christina had had a conversation. No,

47:01

because we were on opposite ends of

47:03

the table. Just like, no, I'll take

47:05

that. She did? She did? She

47:07

took? Christina had eaten half the

47:10

chicken and Jamie was like, I

47:12

can't let that go. Like, she

47:14

took the other half and ate

47:16

it. That would wild me out.

47:18

I'd be like, I mean, okay?

47:21

It was funny. I was like,

47:23

that's hilarious. I was like, I

47:25

was like, I was like, I

47:27

was like, I was like, I

47:29

was like, I was totally willing

47:31

to eat this stranger's dinner. You

47:34

do you boo? Yeah, I didn't

47:36

go to waste. It didn't go

47:38

to waste. Listen, I wish I

47:40

had that kind of energy that

47:42

I would feel bold enough to

47:44

do something like that because I

47:46

think that it was I was

47:48

impressed actually I was like I

47:50

gotta know who this woman is.

47:53

You'll like her. Yeah, that is

47:55

an energy that mad respect. Yeah.

47:57

She's just like yeah, it's

47:59

chicken. This Economy? And she's

48:01

like, you know, no ma'am.

48:04

It's giving a bit of

48:06

Gen Z energy, if I'm

48:08

honest. Yeah, yeah, I like

48:10

it. She's on the cuss.

48:13

She's a millennial, but

48:15

she's younger than me. She

48:17

just turned 30. I love

48:20

it. Yeah, she's right there

48:22

on that edge. Awesome. Hey

48:25

there Travelers, Kaylee Quoko here. Sorry to

48:27

interrupt your music, great artist BT Dubs,

48:29

but wouldn't you rather be there to

48:31

hear it live? With Priceline, you can

48:33

get out of your dreams and into

48:35

your dream concert. They've got millions of

48:37

travel deals to get you to that

48:39

festival, gig, rave, soundbath or sonic experience.

48:41

You've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline

48:43

app today and you can save up

48:45

to 60% off hotels and up to

48:47

50% off flights. So don't just dream

48:49

about that trip, book it, book about

48:51

that trip, book it, book it, with Priceline.

48:54

Ever go on a date so bad you

48:56

need an everything shower? Luckily for you, Billy

48:58

makes products for that. A lufa

49:01

full of nourishing body wash can

49:03

scrub off the cringe from that

49:05

extremely awkward hug. A full body

49:07

shave with Billy's award-winning razor will

49:09

remind you what going smoothly actually

49:11

feels like. And hydrating body lotion

49:13

can delete dryness faster than you

49:15

can delete the dating apps. You've

49:17

got your reasons. Billy's got your

49:19

routine. Shop in store and at

49:22

MyBilly.com. Spring is here. And

49:24

so are tulips from one

49:26

eight hundred flowers.com. But these

49:28

aren't just any tulips. One

49:30

eight hundred flowers has bright,

49:32

bold, and long-lasting tulips, grown

49:34

in rich soil for bigger

49:37

blooms and sturdier stems. And

49:39

they're shipped straight from the

49:41

farm the same day they're

49:43

picked. Right now, when you

49:45

buy fifteen tulips from one

49:47

eight hundred flowers.com/Spotify to claim

49:50

this special offer. That's one

49:52

800flowers.com/Spotify. And we're back. And I have

49:54

the tainted love for us this

49:56

week. I am doing a story that

49:59

we will have. A lot to

50:01

talk about. Multiple

50:03

things. First and

50:05

foremost, I want to

50:07

give a like a

50:09

content warning up to

50:12

top. This has a lot of

50:14

a lot of domestic

50:16

violence, domestic

50:19

violence and evil,

50:21

even a little bit

50:24

of sexual violence, which

50:26

I won't talk too

50:28

much about. Content warning

50:31

ahead. I got a lot

50:33

of this information from a

50:35

Sex and Murder episode from

50:37

a show that's on Max that

50:39

I had never even seen

50:41

before but I was like,

50:43

oh, check this out. Forty

50:45

hours did an episode years

50:47

ago about this that I

50:49

found on YouTube and then

50:52

Texas Monthly had an amazing

50:54

article by our very own

50:56

Skip Holland worth. I love

50:58

Skip Holland's. We all love

51:00

Skip. Who doesn't? His article

51:02

is incredible on this. The name

51:04

of the article is actually

51:06

called 193. One hundred and

51:08

ninety three is just the

51:11

name of the article. I

51:13

actually almost did this for

51:15

my last tainted love. I

51:18

read that article. And I

51:20

almost did it. This is

51:23

a wild story.

51:25

So what 193 refers

51:27

to is the

51:29

amount of stab wounds

51:32

that Jeff Wright, God

51:35

damn, and like

51:37

received on by

51:39

Susan Wright. Wow. The

51:41

corner estimated

51:44

193. He stops at 193.

51:46

And this is so he

51:48

couldn't tell like whether some of

51:50

the wounds were dual or so this is

51:52

an estimate. How do you stab somebody a

51:54

hundred and ninety three fucking times? Yeah,

51:57

I'm glad I started there because I

51:59

want I want. us to have there's

52:01

this is a really there's

52:03

so much there's so much

52:06

discussion about this this there

52:08

really is a lot to discuss

52:10

in terms of like the details

52:12

of the case for sure yes

52:15

yeah so let me just kind

52:17

of give you the little bit

52:19

of quick rundown Susan was

52:21

20 when she met Jeff,

52:24

he was 29. Susan was

52:26

working at a salon at

52:28

the time and had taken

52:30

a trip down to Galveston

52:32

with her girlfriends. They lived

52:35

in Houston and went down

52:37

to Galveston for a little

52:40

sun, you know, sun and

52:42

beach time. This is where

52:44

she met Jeff 29. It's a

52:46

kind of, they hit it off.

52:48

This is, you know, She's young

52:51

and she's kind of like, I

52:53

don't know how I feel about

52:55

somebody who's 29, it's a little

52:57

old for me, but he whined

52:59

her, he dined her, he very

53:01

much love bombed the shit out

53:03

of her and, you know, was, you

53:05

know, quite consuming of, you know,

53:07

her energy and she was very

53:09

much like, like, oh, maybe he's

53:11

a really good guy, he seems

53:14

like a really sweet. Well, yeah,

53:16

it's like, you know, my tainted love last

53:18

week was also a 20 year old. And

53:20

I do feel like, and me too at

53:23

20, I feel like I still had

53:25

those fairy tale, romcom movie

53:27

expectations, or not even expectations,

53:29

but hopes, like if that

53:31

happens for you, like, oh

53:33

my gosh, you know, like

53:35

this is so great, it's

53:37

happening, it's all finally happening,

53:39

or whatever, that I definitely

53:41

think that would have gotten me.

53:44

of course yeah for sure for

53:46

sure you're 20 years old you

53:48

don't you don't you don't have

53:50

a ton of life history you

53:53

know she she you know grew up and

53:55

from what her sister has

53:57

said about their home life is

53:59

that her father was

54:01

a bit of an

54:03

abusive piece of shit

54:06

didn't have the greatest like

54:08

you know childhood necessarily she

54:10

was always very sweet

54:12

and very gentle and

54:14

I think that walking

54:16

on egg shells yes

54:18

conflict avoidant like somebody

54:20

has a really volatile

54:23

temper you adjust your way

54:25

of communicating and your way

54:27

of being to just like

54:29

be as small as possible

54:31

yes right easy going as

54:33

possible because you don't want

54:35

to set that person

54:37

off yeah survival

54:39

survival full survival mode and

54:41

you're already in this

54:44

kind of pretense this

54:46

kind of you've already

54:48

been kind of creating that

54:50

that life for yourself that

54:52

quiet life that quietness that

54:54

smallness she was a small

54:56

she's a small person and

54:58

she kept herself very small

55:00

and very like you said

55:03

conflict avoidant and just very

55:05

quiet she's only like five

55:07

four one twenty this plays

55:09

into some of the scenario

55:11

Jeff is this big kind

55:13

of burly beast of a guy

55:15

he's like over six foot two two

55:18

twenty he's like twice

55:20

her size so that's an

55:22

interesting thing because I've like

55:25

I'm a pretty small person and I

55:28

have been like for my whole

55:30

life and I feel like

55:32

some people who are like

55:34

petite or small like they want

55:36

to get with like guys who

55:38

are really big because they feel

55:40

really protected yes I always felt

55:42

scared of that like I never wanted like

55:44

not that I would discriminate based on

55:46

size but like I just I never

55:48

sought that out as I never thought

55:51

of it as protection I always thought

55:53

like if they wanted to hurt me it

55:55

would be so easy because they're like

55:57

so much bigger you know yeah yeah yeah

55:59

that's why I married short king. He's

56:01

a bit of a partier

56:04

though he'd he'd been a

56:06

partier before he met her

56:08

and it seemed like

56:11

to all their friends

56:13

that like his party

56:15

days were passed he

56:18

really really fell for

56:20

Susan she was a

56:23

beautiful beautiful thing little

56:25

petitee blonde hair blue-eyed

56:27

just Cute as a button.

56:29

And so after just a few months

56:32

of dating, like six months or so

56:34

of dating, when she found out she

56:36

was pregnant, she, you know, was like,

56:39

oh shit, you know, like, you know, maybe

56:41

maybe I should get an abortion. He

56:43

was like, I don't know. He's like,

56:46

I really feel like we should stay

56:48

together. And then by the time she

56:50

was eight months pregnant, he proposed and

56:53

they did get married. So, you know,

56:55

she's like he's hung up his lifestyle.

56:57

He's, you know. Done with the party

56:59

scene. He wants to have a

57:02

family. This is gonna be great,

57:04

but he's very like He wants

57:06

to have the happy home happy

57:08

wife and happy life, but he

57:11

wants her to be the stay

57:13

at home Take care of the

57:15

the house take care of the

57:17

babies. Don't work outside the home

57:19

type of guy. He wants

57:22

the traditional quote-unquote

57:24

family, right? So, you know

57:26

People always kind of

57:28

assumed everything was kind

57:31

of groovy. Everything seemed

57:33

great. They have a

57:35

beautiful little boy Not

57:38

long after that She ends

57:40

up having their second child,

57:42

which is a little girl

57:44

and By the time Jeff

57:47

is 34 years old in the

57:49

year 2003 Jeff comes home

57:51

from a little boxing lesson, a

57:53

little boxing lesson, a boxing lesson.

57:55

A little boxing lesson. Look at

57:57

you with your cute little boxing.

58:00

a little boxing lesson.

58:02

And Susan alleges that

58:04

he wanted to play

58:06

box with their four-year-old

58:08

son, Bradley, their son

58:10

is four at this

58:12

time. Jeff, again, no

58:14

stranger to having issues

58:16

with drugs is seemingly

58:18

cocaine-fueled at this point. He

58:20

has, oh no. Yeah, so

58:22

he's coming in hot. We're

58:25

not playing with my child.

58:27

if you're like riding high on

58:29

cocaine. Yeah. So he's quote unquote

58:31

playing around and boxing with his

58:34

four year old and gives him

58:36

a nice jab to the face.

58:39

And Susan was like, absolutely

58:41

not. Like we're done with this,

58:43

whatever this is, is no longer

58:45

going to happen. So she gets

58:48

the kids settled down, she puts

58:50

them to bed. And then for

58:53

as much. For as much as

58:55

their family knows, like suddenly, like

58:57

they had had a fight and

58:59

apparently Jeff just decides like,

59:01

I'm not, I can't put up

59:03

with this anymore, I'm leaving. And

59:05

so people were like, okay, I mean,

59:08

yeah, maybe they fought and whatever.

59:10

So, but the family, his family

59:12

especially was like, but his trucks

59:14

still at the house, so that's

59:17

weird. He left, but he didn't

59:19

take his truck. And this goes

59:21

on for a few days. And then

59:24

suddenly, the police get

59:26

a call. Susan had called

59:28

her mom and told

59:30

her what happened. And

59:33

Susan's mother hired

59:35

an attorney for her. That

59:37

attorney went to the police

59:40

station and they went

59:43

over to investigate.

59:45

They found Jeff's body.

59:47

in the back of the house

59:50

in a kind of like

59:52

a covered sunroom type of

59:54

area in a hole that had

59:56

been dug up by Jeff

59:58

for a fountain. that was

1:00:00

going to be put in.

1:00:03

The body had been covered

1:00:05

in dirt, but the dog

1:00:08

had started to dig it

1:00:10

up and had been chewing

1:00:12

on his hand. So they

1:00:15

found the body partially mutilated

1:00:17

by the dog digging it

1:00:20

up. And so from that

1:00:22

point on, this is what

1:00:24

we know kind of are

1:00:27

the facts, right? Like in

1:00:29

the story. So what had

1:00:32

happened is he was stabbed.

1:00:34

He was stabbed multiple times,

1:00:37

over 193 times that we

1:00:39

know of for sure. What

1:00:41

we don't understand is why.

1:00:44

And the thing of it

1:00:46

is, is that this, I

1:00:49

think, became so diabolical because

1:00:51

of the way that it

1:00:53

was handled in court. And

1:00:56

so the prosecuting attorney is

1:00:59

Go get her like she is

1:01:01

she is a drama drama in

1:01:03

the courtroom Yeah, she's a bit

1:01:06

of a Nancy she's giving Nancy

1:01:08

Grace I was about to say

1:01:10

I feel like I mean like

1:01:12

that in Texas Isn't Nancy Grace

1:01:15

also from Texas? I mean I'm

1:01:17

not sure I would be surprised

1:01:19

Yeah, but it but it is

1:01:22

very much like I got from

1:01:24

reading the article cast that this

1:01:26

prosecutor knew it was her time

1:01:28

to shine and she just was

1:01:31

doing too much. Oh, she did

1:01:33

plenty. She did everything. So kind

1:01:35

of just I wanted to like

1:01:37

kind of lay out the facts

1:01:40

before we laid out the the

1:01:42

story behind. She's from Georgia. Sorry.

1:01:44

That's just given like Carolinas or

1:01:47

Georgia or something. Yeah, that makes

1:01:49

sense. Okay. So when they. did

1:01:51

the autopsy on the body, they

1:01:53

do find alcohol, they find cocaine,

1:01:56

they find GHB small amounts of

1:01:58

GHB in the system. I have

1:02:00

to ask because... GHB comes up,

1:02:03

I feel like a lot in

1:02:05

true crime stories, and I don't

1:02:07

mean like giving it to other

1:02:09

people because obviously it's like a

1:02:12

roofie, like you give it to

1:02:14

someone else, but people who take

1:02:16

it recreationally, like that is wild

1:02:19

to me that people want to

1:02:21

take it as a recreational drug.

1:02:23

Dude, people take so many weird

1:02:25

things for drugs like the whole

1:02:28

like nitrous. thing that to me

1:02:30

is like weird so you'd like

1:02:32

for five seconds right sucking on

1:02:34

a fucking whip cream thing like

1:02:37

couldn't be me I don't know

1:02:39

people yeah duster yeah but GHB

1:02:41

doesn't it like wipes your memory

1:02:44

like why would you don't even

1:02:46

remember having fun doesn't make you

1:02:48

don't make you feel high like

1:02:50

I just I guess I don't

1:02:53

know I don't really understand either

1:02:55

I do know from the articles

1:02:57

and the show that I've watched

1:03:00

shows I watched that they were

1:03:02

saying that they were saying that

1:03:04

she could have given it to

1:03:06

him so that she was able

1:03:09

to control him because he's so

1:03:11

much bigger than her, but he

1:03:13

also very well could have been

1:03:15

doing it. Right, because people do

1:03:18

do it recreationally and I just

1:03:20

I've never understood that. And I

1:03:22

will tell you in the way

1:03:25

that like alcohol cocaine is kind

1:03:27

of the salve for alcohol like

1:03:29

if you're too drunk doing cocaine

1:03:31

is like oh it's a good

1:03:34

pick me up it's gonna kind

1:03:36

of negate some of that I

1:03:38

hear from what I've heard from

1:03:41

what I My research was that

1:03:43

GHB can kind of do that

1:03:45

for cocaine. So maybe it's interesting.

1:03:47

Like a- Bring you back down

1:03:50

a little bit? Maybe, yeah. So

1:03:52

there's a lot of, a lot

1:03:54

of background to Jeff. He is

1:03:56

34 at the time when they

1:03:59

find him. You know, his friends

1:04:01

of course paint him as very

1:04:03

loving, you know, nice man, but.

1:04:06

Susan's family is like that's Sure,

1:04:08

okay, but also we got to

1:04:10

talk about all the times that

1:04:12

Susan had bruises, Susan had black

1:04:15

eyes, and you know, Susan was

1:04:17

never allowed to leave her house

1:04:19

for an hour longer than 90

1:04:22

minutes at a time. You know,

1:04:24

it's just, there's a lot of,

1:04:26

like, now people are like, but

1:04:28

he's a real piece of shit.

1:04:31

He's a real abusive piece of

1:04:33

shit. The problem is, is that

1:04:35

all of these times when. You

1:04:37

know, she's saying that he's been

1:04:40

abusive. She's never filed a police

1:04:42

report. She's never gone to a

1:04:44

hospital. She did say even one

1:04:47

time she actually was pregnant again

1:04:49

between her oldest son and their

1:04:51

daughter. that she had been pregnant

1:04:53

in between then and that he'd

1:04:56

kicked her so hard in the

1:04:58

stomach that she'd miscarry. Oh wow.

1:05:00

And he refused to let her

1:05:03

go to the hospital because they

1:05:05

didn't have the money to pay

1:05:07

for it. So I mean, who

1:05:09

knows how deep the control is?

1:05:12

Who knows if these stories are

1:05:14

true? What I do know is

1:05:16

that this prosecuting attorney was hell

1:05:19

bent on proving that no matter

1:05:21

what she did this, out for

1:05:23

blood. Sigler is her name. I

1:05:25

have so much to say about

1:05:28

this. I really do. Yeah, because

1:05:30

I feel like I know that

1:05:32

name. Is she a famous prosecutor?

1:05:34

Yes, and they made a show

1:05:37

about her on. Yeah. She's blonde.

1:05:39

I think I know exactly you're

1:05:41

talking about. Yeah. Kelly Sinclair. Sorry.

1:05:44

Go ahead. So. One. What was

1:05:46

her motive then if she wasn't

1:05:48

being abused? Did she get? a

1:05:50

shit ton of, she didn't get

1:05:53

life insurance, she didn't get like,

1:05:55

200,000 life insurance policy. It was

1:05:57

like nothing. Secondly. This is what

1:06:00

Ciegler had said too. She's like,

1:06:02

it's a 200,000 life insurance policy

1:06:04

that she wanted. Okay. Okay. Okay.

1:06:06

I mean, people have killed people.

1:06:09

Like, that's true. But it's not

1:06:11

completely out of the question, but.

1:06:13

To stab somebody eight times ten

1:06:15

times is overkill to stab somebody

1:06:18

a hundred and ninety three times.

1:06:20

Yeah, I've never seen that in

1:06:22

all the true crime I've ever

1:06:25

watched That I've ever considered like

1:06:27

that is That is an event.

1:06:29

That is some sort of break

1:06:31

in somebody's like that is so

1:06:34

over the top That's beyond overkill.

1:06:36

And then her actions afterward, it's

1:06:38

again, like you said, that prosecutor

1:06:41

tries to spin it one way,

1:06:43

but it definitely also makes sense

1:06:45

to me the other way. Exactly.

1:06:47

So, you know, like, yeah, I'll

1:06:50

let you. So it's why it's

1:06:52

so important, though, to like, and

1:06:54

I know domestic abuse is so

1:06:56

difficult and so complicated, and there's

1:06:59

so much. It's so emotional fraud.

1:07:01

Yeah, yeah. But if... And it's

1:07:03

hard to have the presence of

1:07:06

mind in the moment to do

1:07:08

any number of things, but documenting

1:07:10

it, somehow telling someone, you know,

1:07:12

like really writing it in your

1:07:15

journal, like anything, so that there's

1:07:17

something, some kind of trail that

1:07:19

you can point back to if

1:07:22

you need to. Yeah. And I

1:07:24

think Susan... Because it only ever

1:07:26

escalates. Oh, absolutely. And I think

1:07:28

Susan was so naive that she

1:07:31

even said she was like, I

1:07:33

thought for sure that everybody would

1:07:35

believe me when I went to

1:07:37

trial and just told them the

1:07:40

truth of what happened, that he

1:07:42

was this person and I was

1:07:44

so scared of him. So when

1:07:47

the police get to the house

1:07:49

and they find Jeff's body, all

1:07:51

of this, she's actually already in

1:07:53

a psychiatric ward. She's been sent,

1:07:56

she's like... She's had a psychotic

1:07:58

break. That's what, you know, the,

1:08:00

her attorneys told them she's gone

1:08:03

to the psychiatric ward, the psychiatrist

1:08:05

who had. to her said for

1:08:07

sure she was suffering from battered

1:08:09

wife syndrome. There was no question

1:08:12

that she was suffering from a

1:08:14

severe PTSD when she arrived. He

1:08:16

had said that he was like

1:08:19

dissociative. Yeah, dissociative. Like completely dissociative.

1:08:21

Like, yes. And just absolute,

1:08:23

like doesn't really, isn't

1:08:25

connected to reality in

1:08:28

that moment. So what she

1:08:30

had told him at the time is

1:08:32

that he'd gone to sleep and

1:08:34

then she just lost control

1:08:36

and started stabbing him. What

1:08:38

later comes out and why they

1:08:41

didn't put the psychiatrist on trial

1:08:43

in the original trial to

1:08:45

support her in this evidence

1:08:47

of battered wife syndrome is

1:08:49

because her story does change

1:08:51

and which he even says

1:08:53

he's like. Yeah, it's very

1:08:55

likely that it could change

1:08:58

because she came to me

1:09:00

in this very dissociated state.

1:09:02

She probably didn't even, wasn't

1:09:04

even connecting yet to what

1:09:06

had happened. And so the

1:09:08

story that she finally told

1:09:10

was the story about him,

1:09:12

you know, punching their son, that

1:09:14

they, that he had forced

1:09:16

her to go to bed with him,

1:09:18

and that he had She had fallen

1:09:21

asleep and that he had come into

1:09:23

the room with a knife and all

1:09:25

she woke up to was him saying,

1:09:27

die bitch. And she says that he,

1:09:29

she kicked him in the groin and

1:09:31

was able to get the knife out

1:09:34

of his hand because she was able

1:09:36

to take control from that

1:09:38

point because, I'm sorry, a growing

1:09:40

kick, even if you're a tall

1:09:42

guy, is gonna disable somebody,

1:09:45

I think, even no matter how big

1:09:47

they are. So, and she said, all

1:09:49

she could knew is that she just

1:09:51

started stabbing him. And she

1:09:53

says she doesn't remember much

1:09:55

of anything until she hears a knock

1:09:58

on the door. And it's her. her

1:10:00

son Bradley and she says, I have

1:10:02

to go like put him back to

1:10:04

bed. So she takes like a necktie

1:10:06

and ties his hands to the railing

1:10:08

of their bed and leaves because she's

1:10:10

certain that he is going to get

1:10:12

up, find the knife, she hides the

1:10:14

knife, she's certain he's going to get

1:10:16

up, find the knife and come after

1:10:18

her. So he takes, she takes the

1:10:20

little boy, puts him back to sleep,

1:10:22

goes back down to the kitchen because

1:10:24

In her head, she's like, he has

1:10:26

found that knife. He's going to

1:10:28

kill me. So she gets a

1:10:30

new knife and goes back

1:10:32

upstairs and continues

1:10:34

to keep stabbing him. She

1:10:37

is so certain that he is

1:10:39

going to, it's wild. Like her

1:10:41

story is like, he's big, right?

1:10:43

So she finds a dolly, she

1:10:45

puts him on the dolly and

1:10:47

rolls him out into this garden

1:10:50

and puts him in the dirt.

1:10:52

But she starts cleaning the

1:10:54

house manically because in her mind

1:10:56

she's certain he's going to come home

1:10:58

or he's going to wake up and

1:11:01

be pissed off that the house is

1:11:03

so dirty. So she starts to clean

1:11:05

and scrub the entire house. She takes

1:11:07

the mattress outside because she needs to

1:11:09

air it out. because it's, you

1:11:11

know, it's too messy, it's

1:11:13

too filthy for him. She

1:11:16

paints over some mess in

1:11:18

the walls and she's starting

1:11:20

to clean the rugs, but

1:11:22

there's certain areas of the

1:11:25

rugs that won't come clean.

1:11:27

Well, but as a prosecuting

1:11:29

attorney, this is a prosecuting

1:11:31

attorney's dream. Exactly. What makes

1:11:33

this story, I think, so

1:11:36

heartbreaking, is it really could

1:11:38

be one or the other. You know

1:11:40

what I mean? Like, yeah. All

1:11:42

right, I did like reading

1:11:44

how she described it and

1:11:47

her hope that fear that

1:11:49

she was just so out

1:11:51

of it, she really expected

1:11:53

him. So after stabbing him

1:11:55

193 times, like that's how

1:11:58

about of it. She got,

1:12:00

yeah, exactly. I think that too,

1:12:02

maybe if I hadn't watched her

1:12:04

on the stand. And I think you

1:12:06

see people sometimes, and we've

1:12:08

talked about this recently on

1:12:10

our shorty episode where we

1:12:13

talked about like how people

1:12:15

react in certain situations. And

1:12:17

there is no clear cut

1:12:19

way about how you react

1:12:21

in certain situations. But I'll

1:12:23

tell you this, she cried real

1:12:25

tears on the stand. She was

1:12:27

visibly upset and very

1:12:30

much like, like to me, like,

1:12:32

not just remorseful, but

1:12:34

like really scared and

1:12:36

fearful. Her story doesn't

1:12:39

sound implausible to me at

1:12:41

all. No. It's just a

1:12:43

difficult thing because it's so

1:12:46

easy to spin it the

1:12:48

other direction too. Yeah. I

1:12:50

mean, and you do see

1:12:52

very manipulative people. get away

1:12:54

with crimes or try attempt to

1:12:57

get away with crimes by using

1:12:59

x y z kind of like

1:13:01

excuse I'm not saying I don't

1:13:03

believe her I actually do believe

1:13:05

her and this is well here's

1:13:07

here's the only detail cast that

1:13:09

really tripped me up and I

1:13:11

don't think that they did the

1:13:13

best job in the article of

1:13:16

really explaining it but the

1:13:18

candle wax okay so this is

1:13:20

the other thing that that

1:13:22

so Kelly Siger, like I said

1:13:25

was who I do recognize, yeah,

1:13:27

she's done a lot of like

1:13:29

big profile cases in Texas.

1:13:31

Yes. She's like, this is bullshit.

1:13:34

This is obviously made up

1:13:36

story so that she could

1:13:38

walk off with this $200,000

1:13:41

life insurance policy

1:13:43

and there's no battered bullshit

1:13:45

here. So what she was

1:13:48

saying is, yes, there was

1:13:50

also found on the

1:13:52

body wax on. like

1:13:55

candle wax. What

1:13:57

Susan says is

1:13:59

that When she puts him onto

1:14:01

the dolly that he knocks into the dresser

1:14:03

and the wax, like the candle falls and

1:14:05

pours on to his body, that's what it

1:14:07

is. There's nothing more than that. But what

1:14:09

Kelly Sigler says is that, no, this is

1:14:11

a diabolical plot in which you lured him

1:14:13

into the bedroom with your sexy wiling ways.

1:14:15

She's like, you were a dancer when you

1:14:17

were 18. So you dance at a strip

1:14:20

club. Wow. Two months while she was 18

1:14:22

years old. Doesn't matter if she did it

1:14:24

for two years. Doesn't matter if she was

1:14:26

still doing it. Like, it's, but what a

1:14:28

weird thing to use. She's like, so you

1:14:30

used your body and your wiles to draw

1:14:32

him into the bedroom, tie him up for

1:14:34

some dirty sex play. I mean. Susan literally

1:14:36

was like no ma'am no no way and

1:14:38

like she literally was like it almost looked

1:14:40

like she's like I couldn't even imagine like

1:14:42

she was like I could never even fathom

1:14:44

doing something like that's so wild you know

1:14:46

and to the point of that like and

1:14:48

not to say listen if it happened that

1:14:50

way I mean I guess but this is

1:14:52

also a person that in the interview with

1:14:54

with Skip Hollinsworth apologized for saying the word

1:14:56

crap. So I mean, she's like, oh, crap.

1:14:59

And she's like, I'm so sorry. Like, this

1:15:01

is not the kind of woman who is

1:15:03

into, you know, hard BDSM play. Like, it

1:15:05

just feels very, but who knows? The candle

1:15:07

wax is definitely something that is. Questionable, it

1:15:09

could be from that, it could be from

1:15:11

how she describes it. The jury does give

1:15:13

her 25 years and concludes that

1:15:15

she's guilty a few

1:15:17

years fast forward they

1:15:19

actually decide to go

1:15:21

back to court to

1:15:23

see if they can't

1:15:25

get a better judgment

1:15:27

in her case and

1:15:29

it's a big risk

1:15:31

right because they could

1:15:33

go back to court

1:15:35

and they could say

1:15:37

you know appeal this

1:15:40

but then they might

1:15:42

be like well actually

1:15:44

we think she deserves

1:15:46

life or we think

1:15:48

that she deserves a

1:15:50

death penalty or whatever

1:15:52

it's a risk right

1:15:54

but they're asking for

1:15:56

it to be dramatically

1:15:58

decreased and just be

1:16:00

put on parole the

1:16:02

attorney that reaches out

1:16:04

to her is also

1:16:06

a high -profile attorney

1:16:08

and I did not

1:16:10

write down his name

1:16:12

I think it's Weiss

1:16:14

yes Weiss is his

1:16:16

last name he actually

1:16:18

not only does he

1:16:21

go to the court

1:16:23

he does this all

1:16:25

pro bono for her

1:16:27

and he basically he's

1:16:29

like I saw the

1:16:31

trial he's like there's

1:16:33

no way that she

1:16:35

was ever properly given

1:16:37

any way to fight

1:16:39

this and she's like

1:16:41

not that there was

1:16:43

no there was no

1:16:45

psychiatrist that she had

1:16:47

been dealing with there

1:16:49

was no one to

1:16:51

claim you know no

1:16:53

one to explain the

1:16:55

you know abuse and

1:16:57

you know what it

1:17:00

means to have battered -wise

1:17:02

syndrome like what that

1:17:04

looks like and you

1:17:06

know for a lot

1:17:08

of people they don't

1:17:10

understand that you know

1:17:12

most people look at

1:17:14

battered wives and say

1:17:16

oh why didn't you

1:17:18

just leave why didn't

1:17:20

you just do this

1:17:22

why didn't you just

1:17:24

do that and it's

1:17:26

never as simple as

1:17:28

that and that's something

1:17:30

that like a lot

1:17:32

of people just don't

1:17:34

truly understand so it

1:17:36

was he was like

1:17:38

it's so important that

1:17:41

you have someone who

1:17:43

can explain that so

1:17:45

he during his trial

1:17:47

brought brought in the

1:17:49

psychiatrist Brown to explain

1:17:51

you know this dissociated

1:17:53

state and then also

1:17:55

too to explain you

1:17:57

know why her his

1:17:59

her story might have

1:18:01

changed from the way that she had

1:18:03

originally been able to tell it to him

1:18:05

when she was in the facility versus,

1:18:07

you know, how she was able to

1:18:09

cope with it and then come

1:18:11

to terms with what was really

1:18:14

happening. He says that, quote, it

1:18:16

was as if she was up

1:18:18

in the air looking down on

1:18:21

herself, talking about things that she

1:18:23

was doing. Like she was so

1:18:25

disconnected from reality when he was

1:18:28

interviewing her. Not only that,

1:18:30

but they also bring

1:18:33

in a Misty Michael,

1:18:36

which is a former

1:18:38

ex of Jeff. She

1:18:40

actually has

1:18:42

proof of abuse.

1:18:44

She had dated Jeff

1:18:47

before they had met,

1:18:49

and she had... Was

1:18:52

able to corroborate that Jeff is

1:18:54

an absolute abuse of piece of

1:18:56

shit. She has actual police reports

1:18:58

to prove her story Misty as

1:19:00

well is a dancer and for

1:19:03

some reason, you know this I

1:19:05

mean, who can believe dancers? I

1:19:07

think this is probably why. Yeah,

1:19:09

can't trust the dancer. But she

1:19:11

was a proud dancer and she

1:19:13

doesn't give a shit. She was

1:19:16

like, I don't care what you

1:19:18

think of me. This man is

1:19:20

garbage. I have the police reports

1:19:22

to prove it. He literally threw a

1:19:24

glass at my face and shattered it

1:19:26

in my face. I have a piece

1:19:28

of glass still stuck in my chin.

1:19:30

She's like, he is, he was this

1:19:32

person. This is exactly the

1:19:35

kind of. You know, she's

1:19:37

like, I understand exactly what

1:19:39

she's talking about. This type

1:19:41

of controlling abusive behavior is

1:19:43

100% on par for the

1:19:46

behavior that Jeff presented in

1:19:48

our relationship. So, you know,

1:19:50

that being said, they did take

1:19:52

this, the appellate court, you know,

1:19:54

obviously was not going to fight

1:19:56

or argue whether she had done

1:19:58

it because that was. had already

1:20:00

been determined, but what they were

1:20:03

trying to discern at this point

1:20:05

was, could they reduce her sentence?

1:20:07

Overall, she does get her sentence

1:20:10

reduced to 20 years instead of

1:20:12

25 years, which is not much

1:20:14

of anything, but she was released

1:20:16

on parole after 16 years and

1:20:19

not able to leave her state,

1:20:21

had a ankle monitor until last

1:20:23

year. So as of last year,

1:20:26

she has been. is paid her

1:20:28

dues and is free, but this

1:20:30

story is just, it's... Yeah, I

1:20:33

mean, she basically lost her children

1:20:35

too, because her, Jeffrey's parents took

1:20:37

over raising her kids. Her brother,

1:20:40

his brother, his brother, I always

1:20:42

hate it when that happens. Yeah.

1:20:44

You know, I mean, he was...

1:20:47

the victim in this case and

1:20:49

that like he was the person

1:20:51

who was killed you know but

1:20:54

gosh that's always so rough because

1:20:56

you know yeah she's gonna lose

1:20:58

her kids like they're gonna be

1:21:00

told certain things about her which

1:21:03

of course they'll believe yeah you

1:21:05

know yeah yeah because she's in

1:21:07

prison yeah I mean she was

1:21:10

in prison for it so why

1:21:12

wouldn't they believe even know what

1:21:14

they're probably being told Yeah, I

1:21:17

have my back and forth, skipped

1:21:19

it such a good job of

1:21:21

being like, well, I mean, this

1:21:24

is a way that a prosecutor

1:21:26

could interpret this, you know what

1:21:28

I mean? Like, it's very plausible.

1:21:31

Well, yeah, I mean, oh, sorry.

1:21:33

Until that X came. And then

1:21:35

I was like, oh, okay, like,

1:21:38

I believe her. Like, totally. And

1:21:40

because I'm with you on that,

1:21:42

because it's just like, even us,

1:21:45

like, like, like, we. We absorb

1:21:47

a lot of true crime. We

1:21:49

tell a lot of true crime

1:21:51

stories. It's very easy and I'm

1:21:54

sure if you're a prosecutor you

1:21:56

do this for a living like

1:21:58

it's very easy to be Skip

1:22:01

I mean, you have to be.

1:22:03

Your job is to be skeptical

1:22:05

of people coming forward with these

1:22:08

stories. And hers in particular, without

1:22:10

understanding like complex PTSD and battered

1:22:12

wife syndrome and like all of

1:22:15

that stuff, it can, just looking

1:22:17

at the facts, where it's just

1:22:19

like you waited days to call

1:22:22

the police, you tied him up,

1:22:24

you clean the house, like all

1:22:26

of these things are things that.

1:22:29

you just on their face, what

1:22:31

it's rare to be things that

1:22:33

you would do with an intentional

1:22:35

killing, you know? And so I

1:22:38

can very easily see if you

1:22:40

are just looking for a win,

1:22:42

like as a prosecutor, it would

1:22:45

be very, very easy to make

1:22:47

that case. On Ciegler went above

1:22:49

and beyond to make her case,

1:22:52

though, one of the most Iobical

1:22:54

things that she did was she

1:22:56

brought the fucking bed from the...

1:22:59

actual bed not like a bed

1:23:01

that looks like the actual bed

1:23:03

with blood on it into the

1:23:06

fucking courtroom yeah hide up one

1:23:08

of her co-prosecutors onto the bed

1:23:10

straddled him showing how the knife

1:23:13

was held it was I've seen

1:23:15

her in other things um wild

1:23:17

not super likable In the things

1:23:20

that I have seen her in,

1:23:22

she definitely seems like she's in

1:23:24

it to win. You know, like

1:23:26

sometimes you see people who you're

1:23:29

like, oh, you became a prosecutor

1:23:31

because you believe in the law

1:23:33

and you believe in justice. And

1:23:36

she seems like the kind to

1:23:38

became a prosecutor because she's good

1:23:40

at it. And she likes to

1:23:43

win. Yeah. And that's just an

1:23:45

impression that I get from watch

1:23:47

from having seen her on like

1:23:50

several different shows that I've seen

1:23:52

her on. Who knows what she's

1:23:54

really like, but that is definitely

1:23:57

the vibe. Yeah. Yeah. One of

1:23:59

the things, a funny, not funny

1:24:01

side note, was that one of

1:24:04

the things that was also brought

1:24:06

up during the trial was that

1:24:08

The dog, their 60 pound dog,

1:24:10

that Jeff would kick their dog

1:24:13

occasionally throwing him across the room.

1:24:15

And there was this note that

1:24:17

Chuck, or Chip had put in

1:24:20

that said some courtroom observers would

1:24:22

later morbidly joke that he had,

1:24:24

that the, that had been the

1:24:27

reason the dog dug up Jeffrey's

1:24:29

body and gnawed off part of

1:24:31

his hands. It wanted revenge. No,

1:24:34

I mean you see we've seen

1:24:36

I mean I have anyways like

1:24:38

all these tic-tocks I try to

1:24:41

skip past them as quickly as

1:24:43

I can of like dogs that

1:24:45

have lost their owners or dogs

1:24:48

No, no, no, no, no, they

1:24:50

like grieve Yeah, you know, it's

1:24:52

so like terrible But yeah, they

1:24:54

don't go and try to buy

1:24:57

their hands off. No, no, definitely

1:24:59

not that dog knew something Yeah.

1:25:01

Anyway, it is a terrible story.

1:25:04

There's a lot, there's a lot

1:25:06

to it. There's more information on

1:25:08

the depths of the abuse, on

1:25:11

the controlling nature, on, you know,

1:25:13

her side of the story of,

1:25:15

I mean, I only kind of

1:25:18

gave you really the top nuggets

1:25:20

to tell the story because I

1:25:22

don't want to like overly... I

1:25:25

mean, we're not here to just

1:25:27

tell gory details about everything, but

1:25:29

I think that like you do

1:25:32

need to know that it was

1:25:34

so much more involved than what

1:25:36

I was telling you that like

1:25:39

this is years of horrible, horrible

1:25:41

abuse and sexual violence, you know,

1:25:43

that she lived with. And it's

1:25:45

terrible because I feel like any

1:25:48

kind of abuse can feel very

1:25:50

isolating and there's a lot of

1:25:52

shame. around it so that it

1:25:55

does keep you from telling anybody.

1:25:57

You know, that's part of the

1:25:59

insidious nature of abuse. And de-stigmatizing

1:26:02

it in the way that's like

1:26:04

letting victims know like this is

1:26:06

not your fault like please feel

1:26:09

comfortable telling somebody saying something to

1:26:11

somebody yeah I think is important

1:26:13

and yeah to hammer home that

1:26:16

it's it's not your fault you

1:26:18

should tell somebody if you can

1:26:20

is an important message I think

1:26:23

to get out there because it

1:26:25

could save your life, could save

1:26:27

your kids lives, you know, it's

1:26:29

important. Yeah, it's so sad. That's

1:26:32

so sad. That's so sad. I

1:26:34

find domestic violence cases to be,

1:26:36

I mean, obviously they're really, really

1:26:39

tragic, but it's also, it's really

1:26:41

some of the most complicated stuff

1:26:43

that we talk about because there's

1:26:46

so many emotions wrapped up in

1:26:48

it. It's yes, absolutely, you need

1:26:50

to tell someone, but I can

1:26:53

also see how hard that would

1:26:55

be in that situation because there's

1:26:57

still love there and that's the

1:27:00

crazy thing about it. We talked

1:27:02

about that. I think in the

1:27:04

shortie where we were talking about

1:27:07

these things that trigger extreme grief

1:27:09

is one and love is one

1:27:11

where it's just like it does

1:27:13

irrational weird shit to your brain

1:27:16

and you know, makes you rationalize

1:27:18

things that. don't make sense, makes

1:27:20

you defend the indefensible, like it's

1:27:23

tough. Yeah, yeah, wow. What are

1:27:25

you guys watching this week? I'm

1:27:27

not watching anything else, but I'm

1:27:30

reading a book, but I'm reading

1:27:32

a book, hesitated on whether or

1:27:34

not to even talk about it,

1:27:37

because it's not, at this point,

1:27:39

it's like a sunk cost fallacy

1:27:41

with this book, like where I'm

1:27:44

like more than a cost fallacy

1:27:46

with this book, like where I'm

1:27:48

like we're in it for. the

1:27:51

long haul were getting through it.

1:27:53

Yeah. But it's Darcy Coates and

1:27:55

she had written a book I

1:27:58

really liked before. She wrote. Dead

1:28:00

of Winter, which was like a

1:28:02

slasher horror book. She's a horror

1:28:04

author. So when I saw that

1:28:07

this one was like, you know

1:28:09

my, the scariest for me is

1:28:11

like claustrophobic horror. So like anything

1:28:14

in like an underground cave or

1:28:16

like underwater. So this one is

1:28:18

underwater. It's like a deep sea

1:28:20

shipwreck. or you know, they're exploring

1:28:23

in the deep sea, which

1:28:25

is so scary because it's

1:28:27

just like if anything happens

1:28:30

down there, you're done. You're

1:28:32

done. You're done. You're done.

1:28:34

You're done. You're done. You're

1:28:37

gonna run out of oxygen

1:28:39

or whatever. And so there

1:28:41

are elements of it that

1:28:43

I am enjoying, but overall,

1:28:45

I'm just like this book

1:28:47

could have been much shorter. A

1:28:49

lot of like. see like deep

1:28:51

sea diving details that I'm just

1:28:54

like I don't need. I'm glad

1:28:56

you're thorough. I trust you. Sounds

1:28:58

good. Like I don't need the

1:29:00

science really not this much you

1:29:02

know. Yeah. So but yes I

1:29:04

would say of her books I'm

1:29:07

still interested in her as a

1:29:09

writer dead of winter really enjoyed

1:29:11

this book is called from below

1:29:13

not not loving it as much.

1:29:15

I started listening to

1:29:18

Amy Polar's new podcast.

1:29:20

It's called Good Hang.

1:29:22

It's really good. So

1:29:24

her first episode was

1:29:26

with Tina Fay, which

1:29:28

was funny, but then

1:29:30

her next episode was

1:29:32

with Martin Short, which

1:29:34

was hysterical. So

1:29:36

funny. And then the one

1:29:38

after that's with Rashida Jones.

1:29:40

Nice. just so good it's

1:29:43

it's really light-hearted it's funny

1:29:45

it's snarky like if you

1:29:47

love like Amy polar and

1:29:49

her sense of humor you'll

1:29:52

love the podcast I definitely

1:29:54

recommend checking it out nice

1:29:56

I've really enjoyed something light

1:29:58

and outside of my normal

1:30:01

podcast listening habits tend

1:30:03

to be you know

1:30:05

like might as touch

1:30:08

you know a break

1:30:10

from what is going

1:30:12

on in the situation

1:30:15

right now is definitely

1:30:17

much needed so if

1:30:19

you like light-hearted fun

1:30:21

female podcasts

1:30:24

I definitely recommend good

1:30:26

hang nice I have

1:30:29

been junk TV Love it

1:30:31

I've been watching a lot of

1:30:33

homework mysteries I'm taking the

1:30:35

aurora tea garden ride because

1:30:37

there's like 900 episodes of

1:30:39

that so It's like 90

1:30:41

movies total or something. I

1:30:43

don't know. Yeah, you're like

1:30:45

we're in it to win

1:30:47

it It's kind of those

1:30:49

things that I like have on

1:30:52

the background and like play games

1:30:54

on my phone kind of shit, you

1:30:56

know, yeah Well, hey if you guys

1:30:59

have something that we should watch if

1:31:01

you have a terrible date story if

1:31:03

you just want to reach out and

1:31:05

say hello Go to our one-stop shop

1:31:08

of a website. It's my worst state

1:31:10

podcast.com and we love you so much.

1:31:12

Cheers