0:23

Good evening everybody, welcome back. to

0:25

the Mythgard Academy. This is session

0:27

number 22 on the Name of the

0:29

Rose. Tonight, we're actually

0:31

gonna get to Jorge

0:33

Sermon after the Inquisition,

0:35

and maybe we will

0:37

begin to approach the

0:39

really altogether remarkable vision

0:41

of, you

0:45

know, what's his

0:47

name? Adso. Adso's

0:49

vision, his latest vision.

0:51

that he has had

0:53

in the church. I was gonna

0:56

say, and this time it doesn't have

0:58

anything to do with the doors, except

1:00

actually, I kind of think that's

1:02

not true. But anyway, we will

1:04

see. We will see how close

1:06

we get to approaching Adso's vision.

1:08

I keep almost saying a Delmo.

1:10

I don't know why I keep

1:12

making that verbal mistake here this

1:14

evening. I hope I don't make

1:17

it all the way through. All

1:19

right. Before we

1:21

begin two announcements first

1:23

is just to remind you that our

1:25

next moot is coming up soon

1:27

We are going to be I'm

1:29

gonna be in Belgium in a

1:32

week and a half We are

1:34

less than two weeks away from

1:36

Willow moot in Louven, Belgium Really

1:38

looking forward to seeing our European

1:40

friends again That will be a

1:42

great time as it always is

1:44

so I encourage you if you

1:46

are anywhere in the area to

1:48

come join us in Louven, which

1:50

is not far from Brussels he

1:52

says confidently having never been in Belgium

1:54

before we'll see but on the map

1:56

it doesn't look like it's all that far

1:58

away so so anyway we will this

2:00

is this is this is what

2:03

is gonna happen and I'm looking

2:05

forward to seeing Belgium for the

2:07

first time and getting to see

2:09

many folks some for the first

2:11

time and many once again for

2:13

Willow Moot in Belgium.

2:16

The second thing that I

2:18

wanted to announce is

2:20

there's a new thing that

2:22

we have released at

2:25

Signum. A lot

2:27

of people have

2:29

told me over the years,

2:31

very politely, that

2:34

they

2:36

quite enjoy all the stuff

2:38

that I do, but they would sort

2:40

of be interested to see more

2:42

Signum stuff that isn't just me. all

2:44

the time. And I

2:46

have heard this and actually

2:49

indeed, there's a great deal of

2:51

stuff that Signum has and

2:53

can give folks access to. That

2:55

is not just me. And

2:58

so we're going to be

3:00

shining a spotlight on that stuff

3:02

a little bit more. So

3:04

for more on that, let me

3:06

share with you a brief

3:08

recording, a

3:11

little promo spot. Hello

3:30

there, and welcome to the Story Web

3:32

on the Signum Scene podcast from

3:34

Signum University. I'm Christopher Bartlett,

3:36

the Mad Violinist, and I

3:38

am also the fiction submission

3:40

coordinator in the Signum University

3:42

Collaboratory. If you don't know what

3:44

that is, all shall be made

3:46

plain in future episodes. For

3:48

now, let's say it means that I

3:50

get to read lots of really great fiction

3:53

that I'd love to share with you. To

3:55

that end, I'll be interviewing

3:57

authors of fiction and academic works

4:00

that appear in the Collaboratory or

4:02

in the Signum Store. We'll

4:04

talk about the works themselves and

4:06

what went into creating them. The

4:08

interviews will appear here every couple

4:10

of weeks. I'll also highlight

4:12

any new works that have been

4:14

added to the Collaboratory since the

4:17

last episode. I

4:19

want to share our excitement

4:21

about what creators are making

4:23

in the Collaboratory. Stay tuned!

4:25

or at least subscribe to

4:27

learn more. Okay,

4:34

so that was a little audio sound

4:36

bite for the new podcast called the

4:39

Signum Seam. That is going to

4:41

be the first episode of which

4:43

will be released very soon. So I

4:45

wanted you to stay in touch

4:47

with that. It's going to be really

4:49

great to be able to hear

4:51

from more of the authors and creators

4:53

who are involved at the Signum

4:55

Collaboratory. So much really fun stuff going

4:57

on there. So check

4:59

that out. All

5:01

right. Let us get back to

5:03

the text and to the to

5:05

the solemn sermon from Jorge now

5:08

We have to remember the context.

5:10

We've just come to the end

5:12

of the We just come to

5:14

the end of the Inquisition and

5:16

you will remember that for everyone

5:18

else, you know, there was We Our

5:22

experience filtered through adzo right was focused

5:24

on like his conversation with William

5:26

afterwards, right? So we did like a

5:28

little bit of unpacking and responding to

5:31

it. And of course

5:33

William is immediately focused

5:35

not on the Inquisition, that is

5:37

not on the fate of Remigio, even

5:39

less of course. Does William seem concerned

5:41

about the fate of the girl? And

5:45

nor does he even, to

5:48

Adzo's surprise, in slight

5:51

disapproval, doesn't even seem that much concerned

5:53

about, like, the entire reason that he

5:56

came to the Zabby in the first

5:58

place, which was to represent the interests

6:00

of the Emperor in his

6:02

argument with the Pope, which

6:04

has, at this point now,

6:06

post -Inquisition totally and utterly failed. But

6:09

William is still focused on the thing

6:11

which is, like in the bigger picture,

6:13

like the incidental thing, that...

6:17

Happened along the way that

6:19

is the solving of the murder

6:21

mystery since they've been at the

6:23

Abbey so again after the Inquisition

6:25

we as readers and add so

6:27

has had this like little interlude

6:29

In which not only are we

6:31

kind of invited to think about

6:33

something else other than the Inquisition

6:36

that just happened But of course

6:38

like the very subject of that

6:40

conversation is on why William is

6:42

not thinking about the Inquisition that

6:44

just happened So,

6:47

anyway, so, however,

6:50

it's important to recall that

6:52

for most of the

6:54

people, right, for most of

6:56

the, you know, the monks and the

6:58

delegates and the folks who are all

7:00

still gathered there, this

7:03

moment, like, they're

7:06

not only thinking, you know,

7:08

many of them, of course, are thinking about, you

7:10

know, either their supporters

7:12

of the Pope who are delighted that

7:14

you know, in the total victory

7:16

of their side or they're the other

7:18

Franciscans like Michael and Ubritino who

7:20

are deeply chagrined about this and Ubritino

7:23

has already sneaked out and left

7:25

for fear that he was going to

7:27

get murdered. But

7:30

even beyond that,

7:32

even beyond the politics of

7:34

the situation, think from the

7:36

point of view of the

7:38

rest of the monks who were

7:40

also there watching. the trial,

7:42

the Inquisition, and what they

7:44

saw was not only one of

7:46

their own brothers, Remigio,

7:49

be brought in

7:52

and put on trial for heresy,

7:55

not only be

7:57

convicted for heresy,

7:59

not only confess

8:01

to have been a

8:03

follower of Fra Dolcino, which

8:06

must have would by

8:08

itself have been a significant

8:10

shock, presumably, to many

8:12

of them. But

8:15

then, of course, remember Remigio's

8:17

performance at the end

8:19

when he was trying to

8:21

avoid torture and his

8:24

enormous blasphemies that he was

8:26

uttering to the shock

8:29

and revulsion of everybody else

8:31

there. And

8:33

again, this is

8:35

one of their... one of

8:37

their brothers whom they've been

8:39

living with here in the

8:41

monastery who has been feeding

8:44

them, you know, for years. So

8:47

the abbey,

8:50

which has been quite unsettled

8:52

by this series of deaths

8:54

of mysterious and horrible deaths

8:56

that have been happening, so

8:59

already deeply disturbed by

9:01

all that, but

9:03

then disturbed by

9:06

this whole big political spectacle

9:08

in which, remember, the Abbey in

9:10

its reputation has been very

9:12

directly involved. You remember that the

9:15

Abbot was one of the

9:17

losers. You know,

9:19

that humiliating the Abbot

9:21

was just like, you

9:23

know, a little bit of the

9:25

icing on the cake, right? Just

9:27

a few of the little, you

9:29

know, the little frosting roses on

9:31

the cake of Bernard Guy, right?

9:36

Anyway But then in addition

9:38

to see on top of all

9:40

of this one of your You

9:42

know trusted trusted brethren of

9:44

you know the past few

9:46

years You know groveling on

9:48

his face and summoning demons in

9:50

front of you. I mean

9:52

it's it's it's been

9:54

a rough time, right

9:57

and The Abbot

10:00

Stands to address them

10:02

doesn't address them Because,

10:04

and Adso, who

10:07

is very knowing, right,

10:09

by this time, Adso

10:11

deems that he was

10:13

very wise, right? That

10:16

the abbot was very wise,

10:18

not to address any remarks himself

10:21

to the abbot. Of course Bernard

10:23

Guy and everybody else is still there

10:25

in the audience. Because

10:27

basically there's like nothing he

10:30

can say. Like if he...

10:32

says anything even indirectly, you

10:35

know, casting aspersions at Bernard

10:37

Guy or any of his accusations or

10:39

findings, then he gets himself into really

10:41

deep trouble as Bernard Guy was warning

10:43

at the end of his speech. If

10:46

he accepts it,

10:48

then he is like keeping, you

10:50

know, appropriating further appropriating

10:52

upon himself. Like there's he's in

10:54

a no win situation and even add

10:56

so recognizes that he's in a

10:58

no win situation. So

11:01

You'll remember by the rules of the Abbey, he,

11:05

if he doesn't speak, the

11:08

right to speak, the right

11:10

to preach the sermon, then devolves upon

11:12

the most senior of the monks.

11:14

And the most senior of the monks

11:16

is, you know, good

11:18

old chickpea chewing

11:20

Alenardo, who on

11:23

the one

11:25

hand, doesn't seem to be

11:27

quite up on current events, while at

11:29

the same time, being

11:31

the one who has completely

11:33

nailed the apocalypse -based pattern

11:35

of the murders before anybody

11:37

else did, right? Right, as

11:40

Calvin says, I love him.

11:42

He knows everything, right, exactly. Right,

11:44

he knows everything except, like,

11:48

anything, right? It's

11:50

complicated. But anyway, so he skips

11:53

over him. He skips over

11:55

Alan Ardo and asks Jorge. to speak

11:57

is now Jorge is the second

11:59

oldest. So it's not like he's

12:01

just randomly cherry picking. All

12:03

he's doing is silently passing

12:05

over Alonardo, which is on

12:08

the one hand like nobody's

12:10

really confused because Alonardo is

12:12

not 100 % there anymore. And

12:15

yet, like not

12:17

even to

12:20

gesture at it, right? Not even

12:22

to, to, you know, arrange in

12:24

advance for him to say no

12:26

or something like that. Like it

12:28

ruffles a little bit right um

12:30

jocelyn i don't know if

12:32

chickpea chewing is a thing

12:34

i mean it seems

12:36

probable that

12:39

people do chew chickpeas i don't

12:41

i mean i think he just

12:43

gums them like i think but i

12:45

i don't even know like and

12:47

are they like raw like is

12:49

it raw chickpeas that he's chewing i

12:51

don't even i don't even know

12:54

um uh but um Yeah.

13:00

More experimentation is needed,

13:02

I think, to determine

13:05

what exactly one does

13:07

with chickpeas. mean, I

13:09

can't imagine he's just

13:11

mushing up cooked chickpeas. Yeah,

13:17

J .J. Mayberry sort of myth

13:19

guard reenactment. Yeah, myth mode. Yeah,

13:21

no, we totally should, yeah. Yeah.

13:27

We'll give it a

13:29

shot. Maybe I

13:31

can try to convince

13:33

one of the kitchen

13:36

workers to be complicit

13:38

and hand me some

13:40

chickpeas, just like Adzo

13:42

handed them to Alinardo.

13:46

Anyway, okay. I'm

13:49

not gonna say that

13:51

chickpeas are irrelevant because like...

13:54

was a whole focal

13:56

point of, like, one

13:58

of their conversations, but...

14:00

Anyway. So,

14:04

it is Jackie, as you said.

14:06

It's certainly a slight avalanardo. But

14:10

at the same time, he...

14:15

It seems clear

14:18

that the abbot

14:20

wants Jorge specifically.

14:23

to be able to speak. And

14:25

of course, we shouldn't

14:27

be surprised

14:29

when Jorge gives

14:31

a very

14:33

forthright sermon. So

14:37

let

14:39

us check

14:42

that out. Most

14:47

beloved brothers, he began. and all of

14:49

our guests most dear to us. If

14:52

you care to listen to this poor

14:54

old man, he goes on

14:56

in that vein for a little

14:58

while. It sounds like he's going to

15:00

be sort of gentle, but

15:02

then he's not. The four deaths

15:04

that have afflicted our abbey, not

15:06

to mention the sins, remote and recent,

15:08

of the most abject among the

15:11

living, are not, as you know, to

15:13

be attributed to the severity of

15:15

nature. which, implacable in its rhythms, ordains

15:17

our earthly day from cradle to

15:19

grave. All of you no

15:21

doubt believe that, though you have been overwhelmed

15:23

with grief, these sad events

15:25

have not involved your soul, because

15:28

all of you, save one, are

15:30

innocent. And when this one

15:32

has been punished, while you will, to be

15:34

sure, continue to mourn the absence of

15:36

those who have gone, you will not have

15:39

to clear yourselves of any charge before

15:41

the tribunal of God. So

15:43

you believe. Mad men.

15:45

He shouted in an awful voice.

15:47

Mad men and presumptuous fools that

15:49

you are. He who has killed

15:51

will bear before God the burden

15:53

of his guilt, but only because

15:55

he agreed to become the vehicle

15:57

of the decrees of God. Just

16:00

as it was necessary for

16:02

someone to betray Jesus in order

16:04

for the mystery of redemption

16:06

to be accomplished, yet the Lord

16:08

sanctioned damnation and vituperation for

16:10

the one who betrayed him. Thus,

16:12

someone has sinned in these

16:14

days, bringing death and ruination, but

16:16

I say to you that

16:18

this ruination was, if not desired,

16:20

at least permitted by God

16:22

for the humbling of our pride."

16:24

Okay. So,

16:29

first of

16:32

all, the specific reference that he's making, which

16:34

I want to make sure. not

16:36

going to assume that everyone like

16:38

gets every random New Testament reference.

16:41

He's of course referring to Judas. There's

16:45

a passage

16:47

couple passages in the New

16:49

Testament that talk about Judas'

16:51

betrayal of Jesus saying that

16:53

it was necessary like Jesus

16:55

had to die. It was

16:58

the necessary means by which

17:00

Jesus was going to be

17:02

sent to his death, but

17:04

that does not excuse Judas

17:06

for doing it, but woe

17:08

unto him, by whom the offense

17:10

comes. So

17:13

that's what he's referring

17:15

to here. So he is

17:17

comparing the murderer to

17:19

Judas Iscariot, who betrayed

17:22

Jesus. And let me not

17:24

assume that you know even what that means. The

17:29

betrayal

17:31

of Jesus. Jesus

17:33

was arrested and

17:35

brought before first

17:37

the Sanhedrin, the

17:39

Jewish priests and elders, who

17:41

then brought him, you know, sent him to

17:43

pilot, you know, to the secular authority, the

17:45

Romans, who then condemned him

17:47

to death. But he

17:50

had to be He had

17:52

to be betrayed. He

17:54

had to be handed over

17:56

to them because the

17:58

people supported

18:01

him. So he couldn't just be

18:03

arrested on the streets. Had

18:05

either the elders of the temple

18:07

or the Romans just tried

18:09

to arrest him on the street

18:11

corner, there would have been

18:13

riots. It would have been awkward.

18:16

So they didn't do

18:18

that. Instead,

18:20

they found someone, Judas Iscariot,

18:23

one of his 12 disciples,

18:25

who would lead them to

18:27

him when he was alone

18:29

at night. Anyway,

18:33

so yeah, Eric says, the

18:35

history of modernity is just

18:37

teachers realizing they need to

18:39

explain more and more Bible

18:41

references. Yeah, I think I've,

18:43

I think I've mentioned

18:46

this before. One of

18:48

the most important useful English classes I

18:50

ever taught when I was teaching undergraduates

18:53

was a class I called Foundations of

18:55

Western Literature, which was a two semester

18:57

class in one of which we just

18:59

read Greek mythology, Greek and Roman mythology,

19:01

and in the other of which we

19:03

just read the Bible. And

19:05

I didn't have them write any papers. I

19:07

just gave them quizzes like they had to

19:09

just remember what all the names were and

19:11

what all the stories were so that they

19:14

could get the references and everything else that

19:16

they read. And

19:18

let me also just add that

19:20

my students are like by

19:22

the exams that I used to

19:24

give in that class, which

19:26

I would just give quotations. that

19:28

contained references, Bible references or

19:30

mythology references and ask them to

19:32

like explain this passage in

19:34

light of that, in light of

19:36

the illusion that they're making. And

19:39

let me just say

19:41

that my students, my

19:43

former students are blessed

19:45

that I did not

19:47

at the time remember

19:49

this book in general or man

19:52

that have gotten a lot of revelations

19:54

or more

19:56

specifically, Adzo's vision that

19:58

comes, I think, in Terse

20:00

there in

20:02

day six um

20:04

i i

20:07

um Because,

20:10

boy, I could

20:12

have quoted them any

20:14

single paragraph

20:16

from that chapter. as

20:19

like their entire

20:21

exam basically like

20:23

holy cow that

20:26

vision was off

20:28

the chain like

20:30

off the chain

20:32

is just incredible

20:34

um yeah so

20:36

uh Yeah, exactly Calvin.

20:38

Yeah, like it's like the final exam

20:40

I get I couldn't possibly every

20:43

joke in the vision like it's way

20:45

too much seriously a single paragraph.

20:47

I bet you I could have Found

20:49

a single sentence, which would

20:52

have been enough for a

20:54

complete final exam For that

20:56

for that class. I mean,

20:58

oh my goodness just like

21:00

the lists of all of the

21:03

Bible characters like sitting on

21:05

something or holding Something?

21:07

Oh my goodness. Yeah,

21:09

I mean, it's true. It would have been

21:12

a very long sentence, Jackie. So in a

21:14

sense that would be cheating, but holy cow.

21:16

Like, man, just

21:18

reading it, reading that through

21:20

again, I was just like, this

21:22

is unbelievable. This is, this

21:24

is so much. And by the

21:26

way, spoiler, I

21:29

am not going to attempt

21:31

to explain all the jokes. I'm

21:35

probably going to give them all a miss. It's

21:39

too much. We

21:41

do an entire class

21:43

just on that

21:45

chapter because I would

21:47

end up basically, some

21:50

of you are saying would be

21:52

really useful to do a class like

21:54

that in Mythgard or in space

21:56

and I agree, but that's what it

21:58

would become. I'm trying to explain

22:00

that. one chapter would be

22:02

kind of I'd be

22:04

basically telling all like a

22:06

huge percentage of like

22:09

the narrative stories from the

22:11

Bible like I'd be

22:13

summarizing them myself oh my

22:15

goodness it's just it's

22:17

just crazy um but um

22:19

but yeah so

22:21

uh so I'm not going to

22:24

do that but let me get

22:26

back to horror okay um Yes,

22:28

Jackie, I have to admit, I love

22:31

reading Umberto Echo Sentences aloud. One

22:34

of the things I've been looking forward

22:36

to in talking about Jorge Sermon is

22:38

just reading his whole

22:44

rhetoric aloud.

22:47

It is just delightful,

22:50

even if it

22:52

would be intimidating. to

22:54

have these words

22:57

and these sentences

22:59

directed. These sentences

23:01

like mountains directed at me.

23:05

Yes, I agree. Each sentence is

23:07

a journey, Eric. Absolutely. Absolutely.

23:12

In any case, okay. Why

23:15

does he bring up Judas Iscariot? back

23:17

to Judas Iscariot, which is what got us off

23:19

on this whole sidetrack. Why is he

23:21

bringing up Judas Iscariot? Because again, he's

23:23

comparing the murderer to Judas Iscariot. The

23:26

murderer is like Judas

23:28

Iscariot in that he

23:30

is guilty. He is guilty

23:32

of doing a horrible

23:35

thing and he will

23:37

be damned and

23:39

vituperated therefore. But...

23:42

like the sin of Judas

23:44

Iscariot, although the sin itself

23:46

is horrible and shall, J

23:48

.J. as you pointed out,

23:50

yet remain evil, it

23:54

is also, it brings

23:56

about a thing which

23:58

God wanted to

24:00

be. And that

24:02

is what he says, the

24:05

humbling of our pride.

24:08

Remember what it is that he, why does

24:10

he accuse them of being madmen? What

24:12

does he say they're madmen? for believing the

24:14

monks. What they're

24:16

mad men for believing is

24:18

that all save one are

24:20

innocent. And

24:22

he doesn't just mean that in a like

24:24

for all have sinned and fallen short of

24:26

the glory of God kind of way. He

24:30

says you're all thinking

24:32

that it's awful that

24:34

one among you

24:37

is guilty of murdering your

24:39

brothers like it's a terrible thought.

24:42

but you're comforting yourself that you

24:44

it's not you right and

24:46

so therefore your own

24:48

conscience is clear

24:50

and that's when

24:52

he starts yelling

24:55

at him right

24:57

um madmen

25:01

and presumptuous

25:03

fools um the

25:06

murderer Has

25:08

own has but agreed to

25:11

become the vehicle for the

25:13

decrees of God God

25:15

has passed judgment

25:17

on this abbey and

25:21

The murderer is the

25:23

instrument of that judgment

25:25

not innocent not good

25:27

not sanctioned by God

25:30

but is being

25:32

used as the

25:34

instrument of God

25:36

now If

25:38

you know Revelation, and

25:40

I've been inviting you to read

25:42

the book of Revelation, which as

25:44

you can tell by now would

25:47

have come in very handy in

25:49

understanding this book. This

25:53

is also the pattern that we see

25:55

there. They all like to talk

25:57

about the Antichrist and Jorge's getting there,

25:59

right, in this sermon. The

26:02

Antichrist, of course, is

26:04

another example of one

26:06

who is an instrument

26:08

of evil, who

26:10

is doing horrible, horrible things, but

26:13

whose actions

26:15

are part of

26:18

the judgment

26:20

of God upon

26:22

the world, right?

26:27

And remember what the

26:29

wise Alanardo, who knows

26:31

everything, said. almost

26:37

innocent perspective

26:40

that Alonardo demonstrated in

26:42

some of his early

26:44

conversations with Adso and

26:46

Brother William which Brother

26:48

William took as like evidence

26:50

of his madness or you

26:52

know senility perhaps which which

26:54

it was which it is right

26:56

namely that he thinks of the

26:58

Abbey as the entire world like

27:00

the Abbey is his entire world And

27:03

so he believes, or

27:05

he speaks as if, Alonardo

27:08

speaks as if, the

27:10

prophecies in the book

27:12

of Revelation are about

27:14

the Abbey, right? When

27:16

the, when the, when the Apocalypse

27:18

book of Revelation talks about the end

27:20

of the world, it's

27:23

obviously talking about

27:25

what is happening at the Abbey. Because

27:29

the Abbey is the world,

27:31

right? Um,

27:34

and, um... And,

27:36

yeah. um, so

27:41

and again, that was, on the

27:43

one hand, when he

27:45

said it, it seemed

27:47

like an obvious example of the

27:49

lack of perspective that he had,

27:52

right, on the world around him. And

27:54

yet, as the

27:56

murders have gone on, it

27:59

had seemed not only...

28:01

an unexpectedly

28:04

apt description but

28:06

even insightful even

28:08

William has come around

28:10

to kind of not in

28:12

all of its senses

28:15

right but almost seeing

28:17

things from Alan Ardo's

28:19

point of view and

28:21

Jorge also is speaking and

28:23

he's not there's

28:25

nothing delusional here in what

28:27

Jorge is saying that

28:29

is it's Jorge's

28:32

speech here does not suggest,

28:34

as Alan Ardo's did, a

28:37

kind of a slippage

28:39

of his understanding boundaries, right,

28:41

and his understanding how the

28:43

world works. But,

28:46

and yet, we

28:49

can see a similar sort of

28:51

pattern. Is the Abbey also

28:53

Jorge's entire world? Gerald asks. So,

28:56

sort of? In a sense,

28:59

I mean, he's been. Here

29:01

for almost as long

29:03

as Alan Ardo

29:05

and yet and

29:08

yet There

29:10

is one very

29:12

significant way in which Jorge's

29:14

world is a great deal

29:16

larger than Alan Ardo's and

29:21

That's the books

29:23

Remember that Jorge has

29:25

almost the entire library

29:27

memorized in some sense

29:29

like he's got the whole

29:31

library in his head whether it's

29:33

like remembering knowing what books

29:36

are there and what like and

29:38

you know like having at

29:40

his immediate recall the table of

29:42

contents of almost every book

29:44

in the entire library um being

29:46

able to paraphrase that length

29:48

um you know whole passages from

29:50

any random book people are

29:52

wondering about in the library right

29:54

so um Jorge Alonardo

29:58

There's that sense of constraint, right?

30:00

That is, that his world

30:02

is very, very small, very, very

30:04

constrained. Jorge's

30:07

world, though

30:09

geographically constrained as much

30:11

as Alan Ardo's, and for almost as

30:13

long, yet

30:15

there's this sense of

30:17

like a broader vision of Jorge's

30:20

world. And

30:22

yeah, Eric, I'm really

30:24

glad that you brought that up. the

30:26

parts of the library are literally named after

30:29

the regions of the world, right? The

30:31

library is the world. But

30:33

I think this works in two ways, right? You

30:37

can look at that, Eric, in

30:39

the sense that the library, the

30:44

library is, there is no world outside

30:46

the library, right? But

30:48

you can also, like so, so the abbey,

30:50

the abbey is the world, right? QED.

30:53

Just look at the library, right? It'll show

30:55

you that if you go inside, but then

30:57

you'll probably die or whatever. Um,

30:59

you're not supposed to in any case. Um,

31:02

but again, there's another way to look

31:04

at it though. I think Eric,

31:06

that is, you could look at,

31:09

you could, you could take that

31:11

as sort of evidence of, uh,

31:13

you know, a more Alanardian view

31:15

of, uh, of the world or

31:17

you could look at it almost

31:19

the other way around, right?

31:24

that because the abbey

31:26

contains the library

31:28

and the library contains

31:30

the whole world like mapped

31:32

out in the world right

31:34

in the order of the

31:36

world like the

31:38

whole world is in the abbey

31:40

it's not that the world

31:42

is so small that it can that you

31:45

know again there's this sense of constraint

31:47

like Alonardo is living in a very very

31:49

small world right Jorge

31:52

instead of living in

31:55

a very very small

31:57

world is living

31:59

in a very very

32:01

big abbey Yeah,

32:03

there's a microcosm macrocosm sort

32:05

of thing going on

32:07

there What else of the world

32:10

does Jorge need besides which he's blind that is

32:12

he can't go out and see the rest of

32:14

the world, right? He has

32:16

all that he needs Stored

32:20

in the library and in his

32:22

case stored in his head. How

32:25

many of the monks know about

32:27

the library map? Almost none, almost

32:30

none. Only

32:32

those with library knowledge, direct

32:34

library knowledge. Now

32:36

some might conjecture

32:38

at it because remember

32:40

you can see the

32:42

there is that publicly perusable

32:45

catalog, right?

32:48

And so you can you can see there

32:50

and You'll remember that

32:52

Adso and William were

32:54

in fact sort of

32:56

speculating about

32:59

that but But

33:02

yeah

33:05

as far as actually knowing and knowing

33:07

how it's laid out. Yeah, absolutely

33:09

not absolutely not So that is a

33:11

fascinating idea Maureen Maureen is suggesting

33:13

a comparison between the library and the

33:15

Tree of Knowledge That

33:18

is the tree that

33:22

Adam and Eve were supposed to not eat

33:24

from right Right. I

33:27

love that comparison,

33:30

Maureen. I'm a

33:32

little resistant to it because

33:34

I

33:36

don't feel...

33:38

I don't feel the narrative has been

33:41

pushing us in that direction. I might

33:43

just miss it. There's

33:52

some Adam

33:54

stuff Yeah

33:56

You

33:59

can maybe make a case but

34:01

I I haven't

34:04

feel that it's um

34:06

I I

34:08

don't feel that it's

34:10

been I Haven't felt

34:12

pushed in that direction

34:15

It's a really interesting

34:17

comparison, but I'm always

34:19

really nervous to

34:22

invest too much in

34:24

comparisons that the book

34:26

doesn't kind of hand

34:28

me at all. You

34:31

can do it. It's really

34:33

interesting, but I want

34:35

to focus first on the

34:37

connections that the book is really

34:39

making, especially making repeatedly

34:41

like, for instance, all the

34:43

apocalypse stuff. Yeah.

34:48

Yeah. No,

34:53

I mean

34:55

Here's the thing Marie. There's the thing

34:57

that really strikes me about it though The

34:59

thing that really strikes me

35:01

about it is that there have been

35:03

so many opportunities I mean I can't

35:06

the reason I find myself resistant to

35:08

it is not because it doesn't work

35:10

but because it works really well and

35:12

yet I don't recall it ever coming

35:14

up. I mean when

35:17

we're talking about like

35:19

the forbidden library

35:21

and we've even been

35:23

using the phrase like forbidden

35:25

knowledge and yet like nobody

35:27

has been making Eden references like

35:29

I mean that was if

35:32

you will excuse the expression

35:34

under the circumstances low hanging

35:36

fruit right there and yet

35:38

the narrative has never plucked

35:41

it right and thus I

35:43

am reluctant to pluck

35:45

it myself um

35:47

doubly under

35:49

the circumstances, perhaps.

35:53

But anyway, keep

36:02

going in Jorge's

36:04

sermon here. I

36:07

am he who is said the God

36:09

of the Jews. I

36:11

am the way, the truth and

36:13

the life said our Lord. Let

36:16

me pause for a second

36:18

before we go on make sure

36:20

we're getting those two references.

36:22

I am who is said the

36:24

God of the Jews He's

36:26

here quoting Exodus. This is the

36:28

name that God reveals of

36:30

himself From the burning bush to

36:32

Moses, right? I am who

36:34

I am. Yes, exactly. This is

36:36

the the name of God

36:38

the tetragrammaton So That's a really

36:40

important moment, the moment of

36:42

God's self -revelation. This is his

36:44

answer to Moses' question. When God

36:46

says to Moses, hey, go

36:48

tell Pharaoh to let my people

36:50

go. And Moses is like,

36:52

yeah, but who do I say

36:54

sent me? And he says,

36:56

he identifies himself. I am who is.

36:58

I am who I am. So

37:01

God's naming of himself, his

37:03

revelation of his name. In

37:06

Exodus is the first

37:08

reference the second references Jesus

37:10

is teaching I am

37:12

the way the truth and

37:14

the life This is

37:16

in his discussion on the

37:18

night before he is

37:21

Betrayed and subsequently crucified in

37:23

his like the last

37:25

supper Discourse this is in

37:27

the book of the

37:29

Gospel of John and he's

37:31

just said like you

37:34

You know God

37:36

and you know the way

37:38

And they're like how do

37:40

how do we how do

37:42

we know the way? We

37:44

don't know what you're talking

37:46

about and he says I

37:49

am the way and the

37:51

truth and the life Identifying

37:53

himself as The way to

37:55

God it's one of several

37:57

I am statements in the

37:59

gospel of which John and

38:01

his gospel is particularly font

38:08

Now So these are the

38:10

two quotes that Jorge identifies

38:13

God's naming of himself Jesus's

38:15

identification of himself as the

38:17

way the truth in the

38:19

life God is the God

38:21

who is Jesus is the

38:24

way to God. He is

38:26

the truth of God. He

38:28

is the life of God

38:30

There you have it Jorge's

38:32

goes on knowledge is nothing

38:35

but the odd comment on

38:37

these two truths. Everything

38:39

else that has been said was

38:41

uttered by the prophets, by the evangelists,

38:43

that is the authors of the

38:45

gospels, by the fathers and the doctors

38:48

to make these two sayings clearer. And

38:51

sometimes an opposite comment came also

38:53

from the pagans who were ignorant of

38:55

them, and their words have been

38:57

taken into the Christian tradition. But

38:59

beyond that, there is nothing further

39:01

to say. There is

39:03

only to continue meditation,

39:05

to gloss, preserve.

39:08

This was and should be

39:10

the office of our abbey

39:12

with its splendid library, nothing

39:14

else." Okay, pause there for

39:16

a second. Yes, different

39:18

kinds of doctors. He's talking about the doctors of

39:21

the church like Saint Augustine. That

39:23

is, he's listing there all of

39:25

the authorities. The prophets

39:27

that is... You know, he's talking about like

39:29

the authors of the Old Testament, the

39:31

authors of the New Testament, the

39:34

authoritative church

39:36

commentators, people

39:38

like St. Augustine and Gregory the

39:40

Great and folks like that,

39:42

the patristic fathers, all of

39:44

these folks, those are the fathers,

39:46

the doctors, people like Thomas Aquinas.

39:51

Everything that has been said

39:53

by spiritual authorities in

39:55

all of history is

39:58

merely an odd commentary

40:00

on those two truths.

40:02

I am who is,

40:04

I am the way,

40:06

the truth, and the

40:08

life. Everything

40:11

that's ever been said, he says,

40:14

is a comment on those

40:16

things. Yeah,

40:23

it's true. Doctor means

40:25

teacher. When

40:27

I was in grad school, and my

40:29

wife was in med school, I used

40:31

to occasionally say that I was the

40:33

one getting the real doctor, that I

40:35

was the real doctor, and they were

40:37

just physicians. It never went

40:39

over well. So

40:41

I soon gave up

40:43

trying to make that distinction.

40:47

But anyway, doctor

40:50

does mean teacher,

40:52

in fact. And so

40:54

does Rabbi, yes, yes, exactly,

40:56

exactly. Yes,

40:59

JJ I'm interested that you

41:01

point that out that was one

41:04

thing I was going to

41:06

comment on which I think is

41:08

interesting about there is one

41:10

thing that's so what Jorge says

41:12

here is almost completely traditional

41:14

This is exact and I think

41:16

I've mentioned it before St. Augustine's

41:19

method for teaching

41:22

people how to

41:24

teach the Bible

41:26

and that is the top

41:28

-down method. There is the

41:30

core truth. There is the

41:32

fundamental fact and everything else

41:34

is a commentary on it.

41:36

So you keep in mind

41:38

the one certain thing and

41:40

you know the twofold truth

41:43

that is at the heart

41:45

of everything of the whole

41:47

Bible and as long as

41:49

you keep that in mind

41:51

you can't go wrong teaching

41:53

anything else about the Bible. because

41:57

the Bible very

41:59

thoughtfully gave us

42:01

like an answer

42:03

key, essentially. But

42:07

the answer

42:09

key, JJ,

42:12

as you point out, is

42:14

the place where Jesus says

42:17

that the whole law and

42:19

prophets can be summed up

42:21

in one thing. Love

42:23

the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul,

42:25

and strength and love your neighbor as yourself." He

42:27

says, in these two things are contained all the law

42:29

and the prophets. That's

42:32

the verse that St. Augustine

42:34

would have said, knowledge

42:36

is nothing but the odd comment

42:38

on that one truth, though he

42:41

called it a twofold truth, the

42:43

love of God and the love

42:45

of your neighbor. And this, of

42:47

course, is how St. Augustine defined

42:49

Caritas. English

42:51

charity, love, right?

42:54

Caritas, the Christian love was defined

42:56

by Augustine in exactly that way.

42:58

It is the twofold love of

43:00

God and your neighbor. And that

43:02

is what the Bible teaches, the

43:04

twofold love of God and your

43:07

neighbor. And so, so long as

43:09

whatever it is that you're teaching,

43:11

so long as whatever interpretation you're

43:13

doing of the Bible is consistent

43:15

with the twofold charity, with

43:17

the twofold love of God and

43:19

your neighbor, then you're not wrong.

43:22

Can't be wrong, right, if what you're

43:24

teaching is consistent with that. Now,

43:30

Jorge is using the

43:32

same method. He's

43:35

using the same concept, but he's

43:37

not. He doesn't choose that verse.

43:39

He doesn't choose that as

43:42

the core, which I think

43:44

is interesting. Yeah.

43:49

yeah um yeah and

43:51

eric of course i'm

43:53

not suggesting that his

43:56

passages are like weird

43:58

or anything um i

44:00

mean it's uh you

44:02

know uh these are

44:05

these are moments of

44:07

revelation where god reveals

44:09

who he is where

44:11

jesus reveals who he

44:14

is and what his

44:16

purpose was right like

44:18

that Good choices. Good

44:21

choice. If you want to summarize

44:23

what the Hebrew Bible is saying, what

44:25

the Greek New Testament is saying, good

44:30

candidates, those

44:32

two verses. Eric,

44:37

I agree. What is most interesting

44:39

about it is that he chooses

44:41

verses about knowledge and not about

44:44

love. Augustine's

44:48

focus, he

44:51

was in his, again the

44:53

work I've been quoting is Dr.

44:55

Ina Cristiana on Christian teaching

44:57

written by San Augustine and that's

44:59

a handbook for preachers basically.

45:02

So San Augustine was teaching people

45:04

how to preach about the

45:06

Bible is what he was doing

45:08

and therefore he was very

45:10

interested, Eric, as you point out

45:12

about practical things like love,

45:14

right? How do

45:16

you explain what the Bible says we

45:18

should do? Well, what we should

45:20

do is love the Lord your God and

45:22

love your neighbors yourself. That's what we should

45:24

do, right? And that can be worked

45:26

out in lots of different ways. It can look

45:28

different ways in different circumstances. You can take different

45:31

lessons about it from different places. But at the

45:33

end of the day, that's what you're preaching about,

45:35

everybody, right? Every week is

45:37

some version of that, right? But,

45:40

Eric, as you point out, Jorge is not, this

45:43

isn't that kind of sermon. What

45:45

he's interested in is knowledge. What

45:48

is knowledge? If

45:50

you are interested in knowledge, if

45:52

you want to attain knowledge, he

45:55

says there are only two pieces

45:57

of knowledge that you need. Who

45:59

is God? Who was Jesus? If

46:03

you know those two things, you

46:05

have all the knowledge that

46:07

there is, not just all the

46:10

knowledge you need, but all

46:12

the knowledge that there is. Knowledge

46:14

is nothing but the odd

46:17

comment on these two truths.

46:21

Everything that all interpreters

46:24

and teachers have ever

46:26

said, all wise and

46:28

good things, are just

46:30

commentaries on that. Even

46:33

wise things that pagans have

46:35

said that are worth remembering

46:37

are themselves also only commentary.

46:39

on those two things they

46:41

didn't know that they were

46:44

right but if like Plato

46:46

and Aristotle said wise things

46:48

about God and his nature

46:50

well they didn't like know

46:52

where they're getting it right

46:54

they didn't know like in

46:56

a sense they didn't know

46:58

what they were talking about

47:00

but it's true because it

47:03

it is uh you know

47:05

their words have been taken

47:07

into the the the the

47:09

Christian tradition because it it

47:11

matches up with this truth,

47:13

this revealed truth. Okay,

47:17

so what's the corollary to this?

47:20

If all knowledge, the only knowledge

47:22

you ever need is summed up

47:24

in those two verses, then

47:26

why do you need a library

47:28

at all? You don't

47:30

need a whole library to

47:32

contain this. He just said it

47:34

in two exceptionally short sentences

47:37

for an Umberto Eco paragraph. Right?

47:40

So why do you need a whole library? On

47:44

it. And indeed he goes

47:46

on to address exactly this question.

47:48

It is said that an Oriental Caliph

47:50

one day set fire to the

47:52

library of a famous and glorious and

47:54

proud city. And that as

47:56

those thousands of volumes were burning,

47:59

he said they could and should

48:01

disappear. Either they were

48:03

repeating what the Quran already said

48:05

and therefore they were useless. Or

48:08

else they contradicted that

48:10

book sacred to the

48:12

infidels and therefore they

48:14

were harmful So knowledge

48:16

the Oriental Caliph argues

48:18

all human knowledge is

48:20

Worth is is worthless

48:23

either Because everything you

48:25

need to know is

48:27

in the Quran so

48:29

if Either it's repeating

48:31

what's in the Quran

48:33

in which case you

48:35

don't need it Or

48:38

it's contradicting within the Quran in

48:40

which case you shouldn't have it

48:42

because it's false, right? So

48:45

Get rid of the library

48:47

Who needs it so I get

48:49

this you see how this

48:51

seems like the logical extension of

48:53

the argument that Jorge has

48:55

just been making but note Jorge

48:57

is not making that he

48:59

He's about to contradict that as

49:02

we go on The

49:04

doctors of the church and we along

49:06

with them did not reason in this way.

49:10

Everything that involves commentary and

49:12

clarification of scripture must

49:14

be preserved because it enhances

49:16

the glory of the

49:18

divine writings. It

49:20

is true that all knowledge

49:22

is just an odd comment

49:25

on those two fundamental truths. But

49:28

that doesn't mean that that commentary is

49:30

not useful. All

49:32

of the commentary that has been

49:34

written, all of the wise things that

49:36

have been uttered by prophets, evangelists,

49:38

fathers, and doctors, and by wise pagans

49:41

as well, have helped

49:43

us to understand these

49:45

profound truths better. That's

49:47

great. That's really good. So

49:51

what about the lies? What about the things

49:53

that would seem to contradict these truths? Do

49:57

we burn that stuff? No.

49:59

What contradicts must not be

50:01

destroyed because only if we preserve

50:03

it can it be contradicted

50:06

in its turn by those who

50:08

can do so and are

50:10

so charged in the ways and

50:12

times that the Lord chooses. Even

50:15

the false

50:18

information, even the

50:20

lies, even the ignorance, even

50:22

the things which contradict

50:24

those fundamental truths should be

50:26

preserved because by preserving

50:28

them We

50:30

can in the fullness of

50:33

time Under the guidance

50:35

of the Lord Contradict

50:37

them Okay So Horace so

50:39

This I think this

50:41

is really important obviously this

50:44

is very relevant to

50:46

the Abbey and this

50:48

should be reminding you of

50:50

those initial conversations that

50:52

William and the Abbott had

50:55

about the library and

50:57

like why William couldn't

50:59

go in the library. Remember

51:01

the mission statement of

51:04

the library? Again,

51:06

not the librarian,

51:08

but the abbot

51:10

was explaining, right?

51:18

What he said

51:20

should be the

51:22

office of our

51:24

abbey, right?

51:27

to continue meditation, to

51:29

gloss, to preserve. To

51:33

continue thinking about these truths, to

51:35

meditate upon them, and to gain

51:37

more and more wisdom from them,

51:39

to gloss, meaning to write commentaries

51:41

on it, to share that wisdom

51:44

with other future generations who will

51:46

want to continue meditating on these

51:48

truths, and to preserve, to preserve

51:50

both the true things and the

51:52

false things. So

51:54

no Oriental Caliph setting fire to

51:56

the library of a proud

51:58

city. So he

52:00

starts from what sounds like the

52:02

same premise that the Oriental

52:04

Caliph of his story started from,

52:06

but he comes to complete

52:08

with the opposite conclusion. Now

52:16

my brothers, what is

52:18

the sin of pride that contempt

52:20

a scholar monk? Remember his accusation at

52:22

the beginning of his sermon when

52:24

he called them all madmen. Madmen

52:27

for thinking that they were

52:29

innocent and said that the murders

52:31

and all the horrible things

52:33

that have been happening at the

52:36

Abbey have come to pass

52:38

as a judgment from God upon

52:40

their pride. The pride

52:42

of this Abbey. The pride of all

52:44

the monks sitting here. You're all

52:46

guilty of this pride. So now he's

52:48

coming to the point. What

52:50

is the sin of pride that contempt a

52:53

scholar monk? That of

52:55

considering as his task not preserving,

52:57

but seeking some information

52:59

not yet vouchsafed mankind. As

53:02

if the last word had not already

53:04

resounded in the words of the last

53:06

angel who speaks in the last book

53:08

of Scripture. Yes, another

53:11

apocalypse quote. This from near the

53:13

very, very, very end of

53:15

the book. For

53:17

I testify unto every man that heareth the

53:19

words of the prophecy of this book. If

53:21

any man shall add unto these things, God

53:23

shall add unto him the plagues that are

53:25

written in this book. And if any man

53:27

shall take away from the words of the

53:30

book of this prophecy, God shall take away

53:32

his part out of the book of life

53:34

and out of the holy city and from

53:36

the things which are written in this book.

53:39

There. Does it not seem

53:41

to you, my unfortunate brothers, that

53:43

these words only Adambrate what has recently

53:45

happened within these walls? Whereas

53:47

what has happened... these

53:49

walls, adembrates only the

53:51

same vicissitude as that

53:53

afflicting the century in

53:56

which we live. Determined

53:58

in word indeed, in

54:00

cities and in castles, in

54:02

proud universities and cathedral churches,

54:04

to seek anxiously to discover

54:06

new codicils to the words

54:08

of the truth. Distorting

54:11

the meaning of that truth

54:13

already rich in all the skolia,

54:15

and requiring only fearless defense

54:17

and not foolish increment. This

54:20

is the pride that lurked and

54:22

is still lurking within these walls, and

54:24

I say to him who has

54:26

labored and labors to break the seals

54:28

of the books that are not

54:30

his to see that it is this

54:32

pride the Lord wanted to punish

54:34

and will continue to punish if it

54:37

is not brought down and does

54:39

not humble itself, for the Lord has

54:41

no difficulty in finding always and

54:43

still thanks to our fragility the instruments

54:45

of his vengeance. Okay,

54:53

so yeah hang on we'll come back

54:55

to the breaking of the seals later Yeah,

54:57

I know it's a lot Jackie isn't

54:59

it a lot so let's kind of let's

55:01

that's why I want to kind of

55:04

parse it in order I don't want to

55:06

start with the breaking the seals because

55:08

it comes at the end. Okay We've got

55:10

the long revelation quote in which and

55:12

it's a warning that's given at the end

55:14

of revelation The angel the angelic messenger

55:16

says it to John to whom the book

55:18

has been delivered so that he can

55:21

write it and send it to the churches.

55:24

And says, if you add

55:26

anything to this, you're

55:28

in trouble. If you

55:30

suppress anything out of this, you're

55:32

in trouble, right? And

55:35

he's, of course, he's

55:37

speaking specifically about the

55:39

prophecies in Revelation, but Jorge

55:42

is broadening the application,

55:44

right? Where

55:47

is the pride? What pride

55:49

are the scour monks guilty of?

55:53

Not preserving, but

55:55

seeking some information not yet

55:57

vouchsafed mankind, as

55:59

if the last word had not already resounded

56:01

in the words of the last angel. As

56:05

if the angel at the end

56:07

of the book of Revelation hadn't already

56:09

said, don't seek to add anything. To

56:12

try to understand better

56:14

what has been revealed? Great.

56:17

to meditate upon, to

56:19

preserve, to gloss. These

56:22

are the good things. These are what

56:24

the Abbey was designed for, Jorge says.

56:27

But to go

56:29

beyond, to

56:32

find out new things, to

56:36

add, this

56:38

is the pride that

56:40

Lurkton is still lurking.

56:46

To discover new codicils to the

56:48

words of the truth. Distorting

56:51

the meaning of that

56:53

truth already rich in all

56:55

the skolia and requiring

56:57

only fearless defense and not

56:59

foolish increment. All

57:02

you need to do is

57:04

try to understand the truth

57:06

that has been revealed. Not

57:10

foolish increment. Try

57:12

fuljri to add more

57:14

truth. that

57:16

hasn't been revealed. As

57:21

Chaucer

57:24

would say,

57:28

don't pry into God as

57:30

privité, the secret things of

57:32

God. And yes, then Chaucer makes a

57:34

ridiculously dirty joke out of that. But

57:37

punning on

57:39

privité and people's

57:41

backsides, whatever. Anyway,

57:46

The point is, you're

57:48

not supposed to discover new

57:50

cauda sills to the words

57:52

of the truth. What

57:57

was the debate

57:59

about? What

58:01

are the Pope and the Emperor fighting about?

58:09

What was the

58:11

question? Poverty.

58:18

Specifically, yeah,

58:20

it was about power. It was a

58:22

political question. But that's

58:24

the point, right? The

58:26

explicit subject on which

58:29

they were debating was,

58:32

did Jesus own his

58:34

clothes? Was

58:36

Jesus himself poor? Did

58:39

he, like, insist on

58:41

remaining personally poor? Because

58:43

then that would provide an example, blah

58:46

blah blah. Right. And we know where

58:48

it all spins up into politics from

58:50

there. Right. That

58:54

is an example of what

58:56

Jorge's talking. So, Jorge, you

58:59

see why the Abbott

59:01

called on him, right? Instead

59:05

of like taking one

59:07

side or the other, he's

59:09

calling them all out. Everybody. Everybody

59:12

who participated in the discussion. He's

59:15

like shame on all

59:17

of y 'all You're trying

59:19

to find out whether Jesus

59:22

owned his clothes If

59:24

we needed to know that

59:26

We'd have been told

59:28

that we're not told that

59:31

and of course as

59:33

we've seen he's not wrong

59:35

to say that in

59:37

Trying to establish the absolute

59:40

truth or falsehood of

59:42

that statement that Jesus owned

59:44

his own clothes. We

59:47

can see the ways

59:49

in which that statement is

59:51

only being used as

59:53

a manipulation in power politics.

59:56

In other words, it's not actually about truth. It's

1:00:00

just an example. It's just

1:00:02

an illustration, frankly, of

1:00:04

why they're going

1:00:06

in the wrong direction,

1:00:08

why their whole

1:00:10

relationship with truth, with

1:00:12

revelation. is diseased

1:00:14

and again notice

1:00:17

he calls out

1:00:19

everybody in cities

1:00:21

and in castles

1:00:24

in proud universities

1:00:26

and cathedral churches

1:00:28

as well as

1:00:31

in this abbey

1:00:33

everywhere the emperors

1:00:36

people the popes

1:00:38

people everybody is

1:00:40

doing this This

1:00:45

is the pride

1:00:48

that lurked and is

1:00:50

lurking within these

1:00:52

walls Again, I saw

1:00:54

a question before

1:00:57

about You know, is

1:00:59

is he saying

1:01:01

that like research is

1:01:03

bad? Well, again,

1:01:05

depending what you mean by

1:01:07

research. No Developing new understandings.

1:01:09

No, that's exactly what meditation

1:01:12

and glossing is about You're

1:01:14

supposed to be spending your

1:01:16

time like learning is good

1:01:18

Even learning the pagans like

1:01:20

even reading the pagan works

1:01:22

is good Because some of

1:01:24

the things the pagans said

1:01:26

are good and even when

1:01:28

it's not good. It's good

1:01:30

to know it so that

1:01:32

you can know how to

1:01:34

refute it and Fresh meditations

1:01:36

should always be coming in

1:01:38

order to help us understand

1:01:40

the revealed truth more perfectly

1:01:44

So there's always room

1:01:47

for development, but there's

1:01:49

that's the difference between

1:01:51

There's research and then

1:01:53

there's research, you know,

1:01:55

right He's all about

1:01:57

understanding the truth better

1:02:00

He is he is

1:02:02

calling he is condemning

1:02:04

as a very grave

1:02:06

sin of pride The

1:02:08

desire to find a

1:02:10

new truth which God

1:02:13

did not choose to

1:02:15

reveal. Now,

1:02:24

Maureen, let's come to the

1:02:26

breaking of the seals. This

1:02:30

is the pride that Larkton is lurking

1:02:32

within these walls, and I say to him

1:02:34

who has labored and labors to break

1:02:36

the seals of the books that are not

1:02:38

his to see, that it is this

1:02:40

pride the Lord wanted to punish. and

1:02:42

will continue to punish if it

1:02:44

is not brought down and does

1:02:46

not humble itself. What's the it

1:02:48

that he's referring to here? The

1:02:51

pride. So

1:02:56

he's doing a complicated thing

1:02:59

here. So

1:03:02

Jocelyn, this has

1:03:04

nothing to do with scientific research. Nothing

1:03:08

at all. Because

1:03:19

science... No. I

1:03:22

don't to get into this too deeply. First

1:03:31

of all, in...

1:03:34

The word science is

1:03:36

a Latin word. It means

1:03:38

knowledge. It's what he's

1:03:40

been talking about this whole

1:03:42

time. He just told

1:03:44

you about science. There

1:03:48

you have it. Science is nothing but

1:03:50

the odd comment on these two truths.

1:03:54

Since Jorge is, of course, speaking in

1:03:56

Latin, that's literally what

1:03:58

he would have said. Schiantia is nothing

1:04:00

but the odd comment on these

1:04:02

two truths. So

1:04:04

that's what science is. Natural

1:04:07

philosophy, that is the study of

1:04:09

how the world works, William's the big

1:04:11

fan, Roger Bacon, his master, big

1:04:13

fan, right? Those

1:04:15

things are good, but that's

1:04:17

not seeking after different, like a

1:04:19

different truth. That's not seeking

1:04:22

out a different revelation. Again, notice

1:04:24

what he says contains the

1:04:26

truth that matters, the fundamental

1:04:28

truth. It's revelation of

1:04:30

the nature of God. I

1:04:32

am who is, I am the way, the truth and

1:04:34

the life. It

1:04:37

is possible that in

1:04:39

some way you could

1:04:41

be led to a

1:04:43

further gloss on that

1:04:45

fundamental truth by studying

1:04:47

natural philosophy. Because

1:04:50

remember God wrote two books. One

1:04:52

of the books he wrote is

1:04:54

the creation, is nature around us. And

1:04:56

so by studying nature, by learning

1:04:58

more about nature, you can learn more

1:05:00

about God. But that's

1:05:03

indirect. And

1:05:05

in any case, it's

1:05:07

not additional truth about

1:05:09

who God is is

1:05:11

going to be revealed

1:05:13

in that way. So

1:05:16

anyway, Jorge's not talking

1:05:18

about that at all. What

1:05:20

he is talking about is

1:05:22

things are questions that are

1:05:24

being asked, such as, for

1:05:26

instance, did Jesus own his

1:05:28

clothes? That

1:05:30

the Bible doesn't answer. Do

1:05:34

not contribute in any way

1:05:36

to meditation upon the fundamental

1:05:38

truths of God's nature, right?

1:05:40

That's the kind of pride

1:05:42

that he's that he's discussing

1:05:44

there Yeah, anyway, so it's

1:05:46

it's complicated, but the most

1:05:48

important thing that I would

1:05:51

say is that again, it's

1:05:53

just it's not Like but

1:05:55

what about scientific discovery that

1:05:57

would not have been seen

1:05:59

as a fundamentally different thing

1:06:01

really It's

1:06:04

one form of applied knowledge,

1:06:07

and he's not talking, Jorge isn't talking about

1:06:09

applied knowledge. You know, might

1:06:11

he have opinions on that too? Maybe he

1:06:13

does, but that's not the subject of his

1:06:15

sermon here. Again, what

1:06:17

he has in his sights

1:06:19

are everybody who is

1:06:22

just participating in that discussion.

1:06:26

Now, but anyway back to the

1:06:28

breaking the seals. Thank you,

1:06:31

Marie. Okay, so he's doing a

1:06:33

complicated thing here on the

1:06:35

one hand He's talking again. He's

1:06:37

talking about that pride. He's

1:06:39

talking about the these, you know

1:06:42

this impulse to try to

1:06:44

discover new truths about who God

1:06:46

is that God did not

1:06:48

reveal in the Bible That's the

1:06:50

pride. That's the big problem

1:06:53

and He metaphorically compares that Somebody

1:06:55

who would seek to again remember he calls

1:06:57

it pride. What does that mean? Why does

1:06:59

he call it pride? He

1:07:02

calls it pride because

1:07:04

it means you are you're

1:07:06

going beyond like humans

1:07:09

Receive this revelation. They can't

1:07:11

force it You can't

1:07:13

boss God around if God

1:07:15

hasn't told us something

1:07:17

about himself we can't make

1:07:19

him and So for

1:07:21

us to pry in again

1:07:24

We weren't told whether Jesus owned his

1:07:26

close, right? So it's

1:07:29

not just a foolish question. It's

1:07:31

a prideful question to think that

1:07:33

you can rule on that in

1:07:35

either direction, firmly, and

1:07:37

that that tells you something about

1:07:39

the nature of God and therefore

1:07:41

gives you political power. But,

1:07:46

so the breaking of the

1:07:48

seals of the book

1:07:50

is a reference to Revelation,

1:07:52

of course. There's

1:07:56

a book. It's the book

1:07:58

of God's judgment on the

1:08:00

world and it needs to

1:08:02

be opened in order for

1:08:04

the day of the Lord,

1:08:06

for the day of judgment

1:08:08

to come which will set

1:08:11

right all the wrongs of

1:08:13

the world. But

1:08:15

the problem is it can

1:08:17

only be opened by the

1:08:19

one who is worthy and

1:08:21

nobody is found who is

1:08:23

worthy. to open the book

1:08:25

and John who's seen the

1:08:27

vision he's like seriously bummed

1:08:29

out about the fact that

1:08:31

like there isn't anybody who's

1:08:33

worthy to break the seals

1:08:35

of the book but then

1:08:37

one is found and the one

1:08:39

who can break the seals

1:08:42

of the book is the

1:08:44

lamb the lamb who is

1:08:46

wounded as if he was

1:08:48

slain this is Jesus right

1:08:50

um allegorically Jesus it is

1:08:52

only Jesus who has the

1:08:54

authority to break the seals

1:08:56

of the book of God's

1:08:58

revealed judgment. So

1:09:01

that's why he's comparing

1:09:03

the pride of the arrogant

1:09:06

scholar monks who are

1:09:08

trying to find knowledge that

1:09:10

God has not revealed.

1:09:12

He's comparing that to them

1:09:14

saying, I'm worthy to

1:09:16

break the seals of the

1:09:19

book. I can crack

1:09:21

open. Do you

1:09:24

understand how seven

1:09:26

seals work? I

1:09:28

don't even know how many years I read

1:09:30

that passage in Revelation before I understood what

1:09:32

it was talking about. So of course the

1:09:34

book that it's talking about is a scroll,

1:09:36

not a codex. And

1:09:38

the thing about a scroll, the way that

1:09:40

you unwind a scroll, you can seal it

1:09:43

in multiple places. So you can roll it

1:09:45

all up and then put a seal on

1:09:47

the outside so that you can't open it

1:09:49

at all. before you break the

1:09:51

first seal. But you can also seal it

1:09:53

in the middle in places. So if you

1:09:55

break the first seal, you can unroll some

1:09:57

of it, but then there's another seal. And

1:09:59

so you have to break the second seal

1:10:01

in order to pull out a little bit

1:10:03

more and see the next passage. And then

1:10:05

break the next seal to pull out a

1:10:07

little bit more and see the next passage.

1:10:09

So in order to read the entire set,

1:10:11

the entire book, you have to break each

1:10:14

seal along the way. actual

1:10:17

physical metaphor behind the breaking of

1:10:19

the seven seals and why they

1:10:21

have to be progressively broken and

1:10:23

when they are broken something else

1:10:25

happens because a new passage is

1:10:27

revealed of the day of the

1:10:29

Lord, the day of judgment. Partial

1:10:32

revelations, yes indeed. So

1:10:36

again this idea of

1:10:38

saying that these arrogant scholar

1:10:40

monks are breaking the

1:10:42

seals is saying that,

1:10:44

again, they are putting themselves in the place

1:10:46

of Christ. We

1:10:48

can reveal truths about God

1:10:50

that he didn't reveal. We're

1:10:53

worthy to do that. And

1:10:55

what's more, we're gonna do it

1:10:57

again and again, right? You

1:11:01

know, progressively, until

1:11:03

we, the wise

1:11:05

ones, right? Until we

1:11:07

have unfolded the entirety

1:11:09

of the scroll, right? So

1:11:13

you can see the accusation

1:11:15

that he's making but notice the

1:11:17

thing the other thing he

1:11:19

overlays with that at the same

1:11:22

time Break the seals of

1:11:24

the books that are not his

1:11:26

to see Just like the

1:11:28

library The books that they're not

1:11:30

allowed to see in the

1:11:32

library and of course all through

1:11:34

running throughout this whole murder

1:11:37

mystery, which is one of the

1:11:39

things that is interested William

1:11:41

so much in this murder mystery,

1:11:43

is a forbidden book, as

1:11:45

he was just emphasizing to add

1:11:47

so. There's

1:11:50

a book that people want

1:11:52

to read, really really want

1:11:54

to read, and it seems

1:11:56

to be at the heart

1:11:58

of the murders. And

1:12:01

Jorge seems to be alluding

1:12:03

to that here. He

1:12:07

couches it in what sounds

1:12:09

like a generic apocalypse metaphor Such

1:12:11

that people like Bernard Guy

1:12:13

are gonna hear him and they'll

1:12:15

he'll take Bernard Guy will

1:12:17

take the message probably won't like

1:12:20

it, but he'll take the

1:12:22

message about You know putting yourself

1:12:24

in the position of Christ

1:12:26

and unrolling the book of God's

1:12:28

mysteries yourselves, right? And he'll

1:12:30

think that he'll think that's all

1:12:32

that Jorge's saying but the

1:12:34

people in the room who

1:12:36

are still trying to find

1:12:38

the secret book the forbidden

1:12:41

book the book that has

1:12:43

been getting people killed They

1:12:45

will understand the other thing

1:12:47

that he's saying because he's

1:12:49

talking to them and Saying

1:12:51

if you keep trying to

1:12:53

break the seals of books

1:12:56

that are not yours to

1:12:58

see That pride will continue

1:13:00

to be punished Okay.

1:13:06

Big finish, big finish. We

1:13:10

will meditate instead on the words

1:13:12

the Lord will utter to drive

1:13:14

from Him those who have not

1:13:16

earned salvation. Far from me ye

1:13:18

accursed into the eternal fire that has

1:13:20

been prepared for you by the devil and

1:13:22

his ministers. You yourselves have

1:13:24

earned it and now enjoy it.

1:13:26

Go ye from me descending into the

1:13:29

eternal darkness and into the unquenchable

1:13:31

fire. I made you and

1:13:33

you became followers of another. You

1:13:35

became servants of another Lord. Go

1:13:37

and dwell with Him in the darkness, with

1:13:39

Him, the serpent who never rests,

1:13:41

amid the gnashing of teeth. I

1:13:43

gave you ears to hear the scripture,

1:13:45

and you listened to the words of

1:13:48

pagans. I formed a mouth for you

1:13:50

to glorify God, and you used it

1:13:52

for the lies of poets and the

1:13:54

riddles of buffoons. I gave

1:13:56

you eyes to see the light of my

1:13:58

precepts, and you used them to peer

1:14:00

into the darkness. I am a

1:14:02

humane judge but a just one.

1:14:04

To each I shall give what he

1:14:06

deserves. I would have mercy on you,

1:14:08

but I find no oil in

1:14:10

your jars. I would be impelled

1:14:12

to take pity, but your lamps are not cleaned.

1:14:15

Go from me. Thus will speak the

1:14:17

Lord, and they, and perhaps we, will

1:14:19

descend into the eternal torment, in the

1:14:21

name of the Father, of the Son,

1:14:23

and of the Holy Ghost." Amen,"

1:14:25

all replied with one voice.

1:14:30

Yeah, Eric, it's a reference to the

1:14:32

parable of the virgins. Okay,

1:14:34

I am not going to

1:14:37

attempt to explain the parable of

1:14:39

the virgins, but here it

1:14:41

is. Jesus

1:14:45

tells this parable of there

1:14:47

were Seven wise and seven

1:14:49

foolish virgins and they all

1:14:51

brought lamps because they're waiting

1:14:54

to get into the wedding

1:14:56

feast The wise virgins brought

1:14:58

oil for their lamps and

1:15:00

the foolish virgins didn't bring

1:15:03

an oil for their lamps

1:15:05

and then the gates open

1:15:07

and voices

1:15:09

heard saying come ye into the feast light your

1:15:11

lamps and come into the feast and the

1:15:13

wise virgins who have oils and the oil on

1:15:15

their lamps they say oh yeah here's I'm

1:15:17

gonna light my lamp because I've got oil and

1:15:19

I'm good let's I'm gonna go in and

1:15:21

you know like good job wise virgins that was

1:15:24

great and the foolish virgins are like oh

1:15:26

crap we don't have any oil for our lamps

1:15:28

hey wise virgins can you share some of

1:15:30

your oil with us uh because like

1:15:32

you've got like a bunch of oil we

1:15:34

don't have any oil you share with us some

1:15:36

some oil and the wise versions are like

1:15:38

dude no we can't then we want to have

1:15:40

enough for ourselves um you should have brought

1:15:42

some oil like go get some or something like

1:15:44

what's what's wrong with you and so they

1:15:46

go in and then the foolish virgins who didn't

1:15:48

bring any oil they go in they get

1:15:50

oil and they come back and it's too late

1:15:52

and they can't get in the end that's

1:15:54

the parable And yes, we

1:15:56

have to go back to Till We Have Faces again. Exactly.

1:16:00

Oh, it's ten. I'm sorry. I said seven. Yes,

1:16:02

you're right. Ten virgins. So

1:16:04

there's... Yeah, and

1:16:06

it's not about

1:16:09

spilling the oil. Don't

1:16:12

take too literally about Till We Have Faces. But

1:16:15

seven scrolls, ten virgins. I'm getting my biblical

1:16:17

numbers mixed up. least I didn't say there were

1:16:19

40 of them. Anyway,

1:16:21

okay, yeah. So

1:16:24

that's the parable. This

1:16:26

is it. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna

1:16:28

gloss it, right? I will let you meditate on

1:16:30

it yourself and achieve wisdom on your own.

1:16:32

But that's what he's alluding to. When he says,

1:16:34

I find no oil in your jars, he's

1:16:36

saying y 'all are foolish virgins, right?

1:16:38

Or at least Jorge is saying that's what God

1:16:40

is gonna say. Why

1:16:43

do you not have oil in your jars, people?

1:16:46

Why are you foolish virgins? Because

1:16:49

instead of putting oil in

1:16:51

your jars, you've been doing other

1:16:53

useless stuff. That's

1:16:56

what he's following it up there. I

1:16:59

gave you ears to hear the scripture and you

1:17:01

listened to the words of pagans instead. I

1:17:04

formed a mouth for you to glorify God

1:17:06

and you used it for the lies of poets

1:17:08

and the riddles of buffoons. I

1:17:11

gave you eyes to see the light

1:17:13

of my precepts and you use them to

1:17:15

peer into the darkness. I

1:17:19

would have mercy on you but I find

1:17:21

no oil in your jars. So

1:17:23

that's what he's talking about. That's why he

1:17:25

says that. There. Okay.

1:17:33

Now, Sarah, that's a really interesting point. Does

1:17:35

this section walk the line between commentary

1:17:37

and putting words in God's mouth? You

1:17:39

could definitely say that, Sarah, couldn't

1:17:42

you? What Jorge

1:17:44

would definitely say

1:17:46

he's doing here is

1:17:48

applying the revealed

1:17:51

truth. Again, the distinction

1:17:55

First of all, this doesn't mean

1:17:57

that all commentaries are equally

1:17:59

valid or that like anything that

1:18:01

you can say if you

1:18:03

just quote the Bible to say

1:18:05

it is right. Of

1:18:08

course, even the fathers disagree

1:18:10

with each other in debate,

1:18:12

right? Anyway,

1:18:15

yeah. Hey, good to see you, Sarah. So

1:18:18

I agree. It is a

1:18:20

little bit interesting. that in

1:18:22

elaborating this quote in doing

1:18:24

his little comment, because this

1:18:26

is a commentary, right? He's

1:18:28

basically kind of commenting on

1:18:30

two different passages, right? He's

1:18:32

commenting on, you know, Jesus

1:18:35

saying, you know, far from

1:18:37

me, you cursed it. He's

1:18:41

commenting on that. He's glossing

1:18:43

it. And

1:18:45

also he's glossing the parable of the

1:18:48

virgins, right, by bringing it in and

1:18:50

applying it here. He's suggesting some things

1:18:52

about what he believes that parable to

1:18:54

me, right? So,

1:18:58

yeah, but I think what he's clearly

1:19:00

not doing on the one hand, I

1:19:02

think what he's clearly not doing is

1:19:04

the prideful thing that he was talking

1:19:06

about before. He's not trying to find

1:19:08

out something new about God. He's

1:19:11

what he's doing is applying what

1:19:13

has been revealed. So

1:19:15

I don't think he's going

1:19:17

way outside the line. I don't

1:19:19

think he's proving himself to

1:19:22

be a manifest hypocrite in the

1:19:24

way that he does here.

1:19:26

But Sarah, you have a really

1:19:28

good point that it's a

1:19:30

little bit conspicuous, the manner that

1:19:32

he chooses for articulating his

1:19:34

commentary. He doesn't just

1:19:37

say, brothers, meditate

1:19:39

with me upon this saying of

1:19:41

Jesus. Let me quote exactly

1:19:43

what Jesus said and then let

1:19:45

us meditate upon it together.

1:19:47

Instead, he puts

1:19:50

his own interpretation

1:19:52

into God's mouth,

1:19:55

right? He says the whole

1:19:57

thing as if this is what God said, like

1:20:00

this is absolutely what God meant. It's

1:20:03

not, again, it

1:20:05

is not the kind of pride

1:20:07

that he was chastising. I don't

1:20:09

think it's hypocritical, but it's, um, it's

1:20:12

edgy. It's

1:20:14

definitely edgy and I got

1:20:17

and I think that

1:20:19

you do have a point

1:20:21

There is there is

1:20:23

a kind of Almost startling

1:20:26

confidence that Jorge is

1:20:28

speaking with here Yeah, yeah

1:20:30

exactly Calvin it's definitely

1:20:32

commentary on what's already been

1:20:34

said and yet It's

1:20:37

couched in a way that

1:20:39

makes it sound like

1:20:41

he's Adding

1:20:46

to what Jesus actually

1:20:48

said, right? So

1:20:52

yeah, yeah,

1:20:55

it's it's it's

1:20:57

As I

1:20:59

say, sir, I

1:21:02

think you're

1:21:04

not wrong to

1:21:06

feel that

1:21:09

he's Walk in

1:21:11

a very

1:21:14

interesting line here

1:21:16

Yeah And

1:21:18

so... Sorry, Jocelyn.

1:21:22

Jocelyn was just saying very sensibly, if

1:21:25

God wanted it all to be clear,

1:21:27

he wouldn't have messed around with parables that

1:21:29

are interpretable. Right? No, sorry, it's not

1:21:31

you. That

1:21:33

was my reaction to like being like, well,

1:21:35

okay, let me just explain another thing I'm

1:21:37

not going to explain. Jesus

1:21:40

talked about this explicitly talked about

1:21:42

why he taught in parables and

1:21:44

when they asked him why do

1:21:46

you teach in parables? Why don't

1:21:48

you just like tell people the

1:21:51

stuff straight up why why you

1:21:53

tell these stories and he says

1:21:55

So that they won't understand I'm

1:21:57

not gonna explain what Jesus meant

1:21:59

by that That's another thing I'm

1:22:01

not gonna explain anyway, but the

1:22:03

point is that's What you're pointing

1:22:05

to is like a whole thing

1:22:09

And again, Jorge is embracing

1:22:11

that. This is

1:22:14

why the meditation in

1:22:16

glossing. Meditating, glossing,

1:22:19

preserving. These are the jobs of the

1:22:21

Abbey. Those are noble things. Those are

1:22:23

good things. Those are important things. And

1:22:25

they're necessary things. Yes,

1:22:28

the fundamental truths are revealed in

1:22:30

those two verses and we don't need

1:22:33

any different or additional truth. It's

1:22:35

sufficient. And yet,

1:22:39

our understanding of it is not sufficient.

1:22:42

And it's going to

1:22:44

take many, many lifetimes

1:22:46

of people in order

1:22:48

to contemplate and discuss

1:22:51

and come to a

1:22:53

greater and greater understanding

1:22:55

of those truths. And

1:22:57

that's what he's doing, right?

1:23:00

So again, he is 100 %

1:23:02

in support of that kind of

1:23:04

activity. But

1:23:16

Yeah. Yeah. But

1:23:20

also, one

1:23:22

thing that I

1:23:24

would, none

1:23:27

of you have brought this up. I just want to

1:23:29

make sure nobody's confused about this. Just

1:23:31

in case anybody is out there thinking, but hang

1:23:33

on a second, aren't these

1:23:35

medieval Catholics talking? And,

1:23:39

you know, Doesn't the Catholic

1:23:41

Church teach that like

1:23:43

the Pope's declarations about Scripture

1:23:45

are completely authoritative and

1:23:47

therefore, you know, can be

1:23:50

known for certain and

1:23:52

you're supposed to believe those

1:23:54

things when he says

1:23:56

something like that? What

1:23:59

I would point out is

1:24:01

that doctrine has only been around

1:24:04

for less than 200 years. The

1:24:06

medieval church did not believe. in

1:24:09

the infallibility of the Pope. As

1:24:11

of course, you can deduce

1:24:14

from all of the things they've

1:24:16

been saying about the Pope

1:24:18

throughout this book. There

1:24:20

have been precious few individuals

1:24:22

in this book who could

1:24:24

be accused by any modern

1:24:26

reader of believing in absolute

1:24:28

papal authority. Anyway,

1:24:31

so the Catholic

1:24:33

doctrine of of

1:24:36

any kind of

1:24:38

absolute authority of the

1:24:41

Pope, the infallibility

1:24:43

of ex -cathedra declarations

1:24:45

of the Pope. That's

1:24:47

a modern doctrine. It's a modern Catholic

1:24:49

doctrine. It's not a medieval doctrine. I've

1:24:52

often said, and

1:24:55

I agree, Eric, even the

1:24:57

modern doctrine has lots of caveats

1:24:59

attached to it. But

1:25:04

I mean, I've often said when

1:25:06

explaining this to students, like

1:25:09

the

1:25:11

medieval church,

1:25:14

given everything that was going on

1:25:16

with their popes, we're not

1:25:18

such great fools as to push

1:25:20

forward a doctrine like that.

1:25:23

Can you imagine the habit of

1:25:25

this Abbey or, you know, Brother

1:25:29

Michael or... even Jorge

1:25:31

Thinking that yeah, what's

1:25:34

um, I think we

1:25:36

can all agree that

1:25:38

the the the popes

1:25:40

declarations are infallible But

1:25:43

anyway, yeah, yeah, so

1:25:45

it's um But the

1:25:47

point is just that

1:25:49

it's not relevant. It's

1:25:51

not a medieval doctor.

1:25:54

So just in case

1:25:56

anyone was was thinking

1:25:58

that the stuff that Jorge was

1:26:00

saying about contemplation and glossing and

1:26:02

coming to a better understanding, you

1:26:04

know, in this kind of organic

1:26:06

and scholarly way over time, you

1:26:08

know, seemed in some way

1:26:11

contradictory to Catholic doctrine. It wasn't

1:26:13

not medieval Catholic doctrine. Okay,

1:26:16

so... With

1:26:19

that we've now I skipped

1:26:21

over like the really colorful

1:26:23

bits where Jorge breaks into

1:26:25

like the threats about how

1:26:27

the Antichrist is coming and

1:26:29

about to arrive and starts

1:26:31

describing him right which leads

1:26:33

Brother William to make that

1:26:35

crack under his breath that

1:26:37

it sounds like he's giving

1:26:39

a self -portrait and add

1:26:41

so like laughs guiltily and

1:26:43

has to covered up with

1:26:45

pretendies coughing and is totally

1:26:47

scandalized that Brother William would

1:26:49

make a joke like that. Anyway,

1:26:54

I skipped that bit of the sermon, but

1:26:56

Jorge really gets into the description of

1:26:58

the Antichrist. But

1:27:01

yeah, Jocelyn suffice

1:27:03

to say he really

1:27:06

like doubles and

1:27:08

triples down on what

1:27:10

many have said. First

1:27:13

and foremost, our wise

1:27:15

chickpea -chewing friend, Alan Ardo, who

1:27:18

said before that like,

1:27:20

Antichrist is, this just

1:27:22

shows, Antichrist is, it's

1:27:24

probably already here, right?

1:27:28

All right. Next

1:27:36

time, in

1:27:38

our next class, we

1:27:41

will actually get to

1:27:43

the next death. I'm confident now

1:27:45

in saying, having gotten past

1:27:47

Jorge Sermon, that in the next

1:27:49

class we're gonna get to

1:27:52

the death of the librarian, Malachi,

1:27:54

and that we're gonna

1:27:56

get to the

1:27:59

dream of Adzo, the

1:28:01

vision slash dream,

1:28:03

whatever, of

1:28:05

Adzo. But

1:28:09

remember what I already

1:28:11

warned you. we're not gonna

1:28:13

parse the dream of

1:28:15

Adso. I'm not even gonna

1:28:18

quote most of the

1:28:20

dream of Adso, because it

1:28:22

is just monumentally, overwhelmingly,

1:28:24

too much. But

1:28:28

there might be little

1:28:30

snippets that we will look

1:28:33

at briefly. Yeah,

1:28:37

seriously, I was almost like, I almost

1:28:39

got dizzy. reading

1:28:41

that chapter. I

1:28:44

was like, I'm gonna

1:28:46

sit down here. It's incredible.

1:28:49

But anyway, we'll address

1:28:51

it and then

1:28:53

hopefully get so

1:28:56

far as William's

1:28:58

cunning interpretation. So...

1:29:09

Realistically speaking, I

1:29:12

doubt we're going to get

1:29:14

much further than sexed. Tell

1:29:19

you what, let's read through gnomes. Just

1:29:22

in case. Maybe I'll

1:29:24

get really feisty and actually constrain

1:29:26

myself to in fact not talk

1:29:28

about too much of the vision. But

1:29:33

yeah. So

1:29:35

let's read up through. Wait.

1:29:39

Yes, through and including nones

1:29:41

stopping it between Vespers and

1:29:43

Kampeln and And we'll see

1:29:45

how far we get next

1:29:48

week. All right Thank you

1:29:50

everybody have a good evening

1:29:52

and I Hope to see

1:29:54

everybody next week. I say

1:29:56

hope to I'm leaving Belgium

1:29:58

But it's not until the

1:30:01

next day so I think

1:30:03

I'll be okay on Wednesday

1:30:05

night barring disaster all right

1:30:07

Thanks everybody Good night now