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You might say all kinds of stuff

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1:26

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is

1:28

there. Welcome to the new books network.

1:31

Today I'm very pleased to have

1:33

the author, Ed Levin, with me. to share

1:35

some of his thoughts about his newest

1:37

book, The Promise of Sunrise, finding

1:39

solace in a broken world. Not only

1:41

is Ted and I neighbors in the

1:44

Connecticut River, Upper Valley of Vermont,

1:46

but at different times we both

1:48

went through the same environmental

1:50

program at Antioch New England

1:52

Graduate School. But before attending

1:54

Antioch, Ted was a naturalist

1:56

at Cumberland Gap Natural Historical

1:59

Park. and then was a teaching

2:01

zoologist at the Bronx Zoo in

2:04

New York. Now, after studying ornithology

2:06

in graduate school, he served both

2:09

as a naturalist at the Monthire

2:11

Museum of Science in North Vermont,

2:13

and also served on the faculty

2:16

of Newing College in Henneker, New

2:18

Hampshire. Now, this book is the

2:20

latest in a long list of

2:23

his books and publications, going back

2:25

to the 1980s. He has written

2:27

and illustrated a book for preschoolers.

2:30

contribute to photojournal on the Everglades

2:32

and has provided illustrations for two

2:34

books on poetry. His many articles

2:37

can be found in such publications

2:39

as The New York Times, Newsday,

2:42

The Guardian, Audubon Magazine, and even

2:44

Sports Illustrated. A particular note, Ted

2:46

won the prestigious John J. Burles

2:49

Meadow, a recognition that highlights the

2:51

best of natural history writing. Welcome,

2:53

Ted. Yeah, thank you for having

2:56

me. So let me begin by

2:58

saying reading your book allowed me

3:00

to gain a very intimate view

3:03

of your inner and outer world.

3:05

But to start, could you go

3:07

up to the 10,000 view, put

3:10

view, and provides a more general

3:12

description about the upper Connecticut River

3:15

Valley for our listeners around the

3:17

world? You imagine a cleft in

3:19

the landscape north to south, 410

3:22

miles long. That's the Connecticut River

3:24

Valley. And it separates the rolling

3:26

hills of New Hampshire from the

3:29

rolling hills of Vermont. And as

3:31

you move west in Vermont, you

3:33

reach the green mountains. As you

3:36

move east and northeast in New

3:38

Hampshire, you reach the bulbous white

3:41

mountains. And there are many thousands

3:43

upon thousands of streams and intermittent

3:45

streams. that feed into the Connecticut

3:48

River Valley and it provides a

3:50

north-south spur route off the Atlantic.

3:52

flyway for migratory birds coming and

3:55

going spring and fall. Hey great

3:57

thank you for doing that. Now

3:59

the book is structured as a

4:02

daily journal of observations from 2021

4:04

to 2022 and it is a

4:06

record of your quiet observations and

4:09

appreciation that truly reflects a sense

4:11

of place in what you call

4:14

Coyote Hollow. Now do you think

4:16

you would have reached this place

4:18

of review? election without the isolation

4:21

imposed on all of us due

4:23

to the COVID pandemic? Definitely not.

4:25

There's no, no way because I

4:28

would have been on the move

4:30

doing a variety of things and

4:32

I wouldn't have been stuck at

4:35

home for 18 months. Well you

4:37

say stuck at home, it makes

4:39

it sound not fun, but in

4:42

reading your observations it seemed somewhat

4:44

invigorating. Well, you know, it was,

4:47

but you can imagine, Michael, living

4:49

alone for 18 months during the

4:51

course of the birth of my

4:54

first grandchild. Yeah, it was very

4:56

isolating, and I had to come

4:58

up with ways other than watching

5:01

TV and reading books to entertain

5:03

myself. Okay. We've all gone through

5:05

that. Probably you. So as a

5:08

vibrator myself, your daily web report

5:10

gives me a real feel of

5:12

the ebbs and flows of the

5:15

seasons in New England. But also,

5:17

one can't help but notice each

5:20

daily entry begins with a quote.

5:22

So why did you add this

5:24

is part of the overall structure

5:27

of the book? Well I had,

5:29

whenever I come across something, either

5:31

on the web or with my

5:34

reading, I'll write it down in

5:36

a three by five file card.

5:38

And I just thought it was

5:41

a nice way to complement what

5:43

I was thinking of at the

5:45

time that I was doing my

5:48

writing. So there's two ways to

5:50

look at these quotes. Actually, I

5:53

spent one day just reading the

5:55

quotes all the way across. if

5:57

there was some kind of a

6:00

thread line that was going up

6:02

and down and but then then

6:04

I saw that you know some

6:07

of the quotes really did resonate

6:09

to what you had written that

6:11

day. So did you write the

6:14

day and then decide what to

6:16

quote? Correct. Yeah I wrote the

6:19

day well I guess I should

6:21

explain how this all got started.

6:23

I would go out with my

6:26

cell phone and punch in what

6:28

I saw, both weather-wise and animal

6:30

and plant-wise. And I began to

6:33

post it on the upper valley

6:35

birding listserv or regional birding venue

6:37

for people who live in the

6:40

Connecticut River Valley. Then I did

6:42

it again for Vermont Birds, which

6:44

is a statewide birding resource for

6:47

the state of Vermont. And it

6:49

was only when I was asked

6:52

by Rob Gerwith to provide something

6:54

for his online publication called Daybreak

6:56

that I was introduced to sub

6:59

stack. And kicking and screaming, I

7:01

figured out how to get on

7:03

to sub stack. And once I

7:06

got on there, I realized I

7:08

can open this up to a

7:10

lot more than I had been

7:13

doing just on the listserv, so

7:15

I was spending much more time

7:17

with additional writing. when substacks started

7:20

in May of 2020? Well, structurally,

7:22

the entries are also not just

7:25

about the present and the observation.

7:27

They're imbibed with reflections of the

7:29

past too. And so did you

7:32

come in and do the day

7:34

as you observed it and then

7:36

thought about that and added the

7:39

reflections that day or you just

7:41

went back through your daily entries

7:43

and those reflections sort of emerged?

7:46

Those reflections emerged. Some of them

7:48

were done immediately for sub stack

7:50

because it was pretty clear that

7:53

I was reflecting not only on

7:55

what I saw on the day,

7:58

but I was reflecting on myself,

8:00

and what I was missing, what

8:02

I had gained. Sometimes I was

8:05

even reflecting on the books that

8:07

I read as a child that

8:09

led me into wanting to be

8:12

a naturalist. Yeah, as I said,

8:14

it was a very intimate view

8:16

of your inner self that I

8:19

gathered from this, not just your

8:21

surroundings. Now, the book has really

8:23

beautiful illustrations. And can you tell

8:26

me about these? Yeah, and the

8:28

artist is Jeanette Fournier, and I

8:31

met her at an art expose

8:33

on the Green of the Elementary

8:35

School in Norwich, Vermont, the Marin

8:38

Cross School. And my friend Nancy

8:40

had kept her card, and when

8:42

I was looking for an illustrator,

8:45

she said, yeah, why don't you

8:47

call Jeanette up? We both loved

8:49

her stuff. So I did, and

8:52

I went to her studio in

8:54

North Woodstock, New Hampshire. with a

8:57

spirally bound rough draft of what

8:59

I was putting together as a

9:01

book. And she had told me

9:04

she'd always won the illustrator book

9:06

but didn't know about how to

9:08

go about doing it. So I

9:11

had to take a look. I

9:13

told her what passages I thought

9:15

would be wonderful for an illustration.

9:18

I gave her a list, gave

9:20

her the days, and we began

9:22

taking it from there. So how

9:25

did you finally... determine what species

9:27

to highlight with the images since

9:30

there were so many species that

9:32

were mentioned. Well, chickades were a

9:34

no-brainer. They had to get it

9:37

as three or four or five

9:39

separate illustrations because I saw them

9:41

every day and they were so

9:44

entertaining. They were so accepting of

9:46

my presence, you know, two feet

9:48

away, three feet away. I watched

9:51

them feeding young, I watched them

9:53

picking up my dogs, rush fur

9:55

off the front lawn to line

9:58

their nests with. So I mean,

10:00

I really glimpsed a lot of

10:03

their life, whereas a lot of

10:05

other things, like a bobcat that

10:07

wandered by, I washed it for

10:10

10 seconds, but it was one

10:12

of the more profound things that

10:14

happened to me in those 18

10:17

months. So I knew that had

10:19

to have an illustration. But chicken

10:21

is the only ones with more

10:24

than one. Okay. As a wetland

10:26

ecologist, I liked your wetland species.

10:28

the bobcat and that was in

10:31

your description on day 352. But

10:33

you stated in your writing that

10:36

this sighting turned the day joyous.

10:38

Can you tell me what that

10:40

means, why that animal, that particular

10:43

animal resonates in the way for

10:45

you? Sure. Well I've lived in

10:47

Vermont for nearly 50 years and

10:50

I had never seen a bobcat.

10:52

I've seen him in Florida, I've

10:54

seen him in Texas, I've seen

10:57

him in California, but in Georgia,

10:59

never in Vermont. I followed the

11:01

tracks. As a matter of fact,

11:04

when I was working on my

11:06

master's thesis, I followed bobcats all

11:09

over Southwestern New Hampshire, but never

11:11

saw one. So it was something

11:13

I had always wanted to see

11:16

in my home state, let alone

11:18

my front yard, more or less,

11:20

that's front yard in the big

11:23

term. Right. So, so, why are

11:25

these animals so elusive? Well, like...

11:27

Timberrattle snakes or great horn or

11:30

bard owls, they are ambush hunters

11:32

and they're not meant to be

11:35

seen. If they're seen too frequently,

11:37

they aren't going to feed themselves.

11:39

So they blend in, they're quiet,

11:42

bobcat walks on silent feet. Okay,

11:44

just one more thing about the

11:46

bobcat. I assume it hunts year-round,

11:49

it doesn't den up like some

11:51

of those species. It's a year-round

11:53

hunter. Okay. Mostly snowshoe hair. But

11:56

in my area, we don't have

11:58

that many snowshoes. hairs. So it's

12:00

taking a lot of other things

12:03

from your gray squirrels. I determined

12:05

that it raided a gossock nest

12:08

and pulled out all three of

12:10

the almost fledged chicks. So how

12:12

high is a gossock nest? I

12:15

don't know. This was about 40

12:17

feet up a white pine tree.

12:19

Wow. That's impressive. Yeah, and there

12:22

was there were down feathers. There

12:24

was a line of down feathers

12:26

going all the way down. stuck

12:29

in the bark of the tree

12:31

that you could see how a

12:33

bobcat with a mouthful of baby

12:36

birds backed himself down the tree

12:38

and the dressed feathers of the

12:41

birds rubbed against the tree and

12:43

the down came out and stuck

12:45

in it. Okay so I'm going

12:48

to ask you what's your third

12:50

on the list after the chickades

12:52

and the bobcat was of the

12:55

all the things you observed what

12:57

was the number three do you

12:59

think? Well it's a toss-up between...

13:02

yellow build cuckoos which I had

13:04

never seen on my property in

13:06

Vermont before and Otters which I

13:09

find delightful to watch and I've

13:11

seen many times but and I

13:14

saw it many times over the

13:16

course of these 18 months as

13:18

well. So you know my wife's

13:21

actually been in some of your

13:23

birding trips and is the yellow

13:25

build cuckoo really from this area

13:28

or was it you know off

13:30

loan over here for some somehow?

13:32

No, no, they're a really interesting

13:35

bird. They have no sense of

13:37

filipatry, meaning that they don't go

13:39

back to their natal neighborhood to

13:42

breed. They follow outbreaks of hairy

13:44

caterpillars. We happen to have, in

13:47

the summer of 2020, we happen

13:49

to have a bumper crop of

13:51

10 caterpillars. So they showed up.

13:54

And I think it was mid-June,

13:56

maybe. early July, and it wasn't

13:58

just one. There was a wave

14:01

of them. I heard about six

14:03

or seven one morning, and they

14:05

continued to hear them all the

14:08

way into September. Wow. So, now,

14:10

the book is rife with visual

14:13

descriptions, and you're obviously grounded in

14:15

biology and ecology, which were quite

14:17

evident in some of your early

14:20

books, like the one about the

14:22

Everglades and the other about the

14:24

Rattlesnake, but what struck me about...

14:27

This book was, how much sound

14:29

was part of your daily sojourns

14:31

outside? As a writer, is it

14:34

more difficult for you to describe

14:36

the world of sound versus sight?

14:38

It's a bit more of a

14:41

challenge, but it's not that difficult.

14:43

I would just relay it back

14:46

to things that I knew and

14:48

was familiar with, which in many

14:50

cases was rock and roll. I've

14:53

tried to do that for trying

14:55

to describe wood frogs, you know,

14:57

to people, you know, what that

15:00

sound is like. But I often

15:02

have to come up with a

15:04

metaphor of something to get the

15:07

idea of what the sound is

15:09

like, as opposed to just describing

15:11

the sound. Did you have any

15:14

of those challenges? I probably did,

15:16

but you know, in many cases,

15:19

wood frogs, I would call, you

15:21

know, disembodied ducks. Yeah, me too.

15:23

Yeah, but it always sounded like

15:26

to me. But for instance, one

15:28

of my favorite birds in a

15:30

beautiful, beautiful, colored songbird is a

15:33

scarlet tanager. And it's got a

15:35

raspy voice like someone who smokes

15:37

a pack of cigarettes a day.

15:40

I mean, if you can imagine

15:42

a robin as a chain smoker,

15:44

that's the voice of a tanager.

15:47

That's great. That's a great description.

15:49

I mean, it's sort of like

15:52

people then sort of understand the

15:54

sound. Yeah, or if you listen

15:56

to folk music... Tom waits. Yep.

15:59

This is great. Now you have

16:01

a real appreciation of what you

16:03

have and had but the whole

16:06

book stepping back is a snapshot

16:08

of that world in time. So

16:10

can you again step back or

16:13

step up and reflect on what

16:15

you see is the major threat

16:17

to this exquisite painting you have

16:20

shared? were this way of life

16:22

in the upper Connecticut River Valley?

16:25

Yeah, ignoring it. And you expound

16:27

on that a little bit? Yeah,

16:29

yeah, I mean, I think it

16:32

was a Dalai Lama that said

16:34

you only you only protect and

16:36

save what you care for and

16:39

you love, I'm kind of paraphrasing

16:41

what he said. And I think

16:43

that's the case for all of

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us wherever we happen to live.

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way. So you can be

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on yours. Uber, on our

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way. Is there anything that

18:00

you would suggest in briefs

18:02

our desire for care? Yeah,

18:04

go outside and eyes and

18:07

ears wide open. Okay. Now.

18:09

Because I shared earlier there

18:12

are many entrancing insightful observations

18:14

over these 526 days with

18:16

many reflections going back almost

18:19

40 years. So now that

18:21

the book is published, is

18:24

there a particular passage that

18:26

you'd like to share with

18:29

our listeners? Sure, I think

18:31

it would be day 161,

18:33

which I use as the

18:36

introduction because it's introducing both

18:38

how I lay out the

18:41

book, even though it's not

18:43

chronological, it's taken out of

18:45

sequence, but it also introduces

18:48

myself and the life I

18:50

had for myself on that

18:53

100 acres in Thetford Center

18:55

that we called Coyote Hollow.

18:58

Okay, can you share that

19:00

with us? I can. An

19:02

introduction, day 161, 25th of

19:05

August 2020, Liddy's 69th birthday.

19:07

In three words, I can

19:10

sum up everything I've learned

19:12

about life. goes on, Robert

19:14

Frost. 6.05 a.m. Sunrise one

19:17

minute later than yesterday. 63

19:19

degrees wind south-southeast three miles

19:22

per hour. Sky. Dispersing ground

19:24

fog lifts, unveiling a lightly

19:27

rubble heaven. A mix of

19:29

overexposed blue and wool white

19:31

hints of peach across the

19:34

west. Permanent streams. Permanent streams.

19:36

Jittery flow flickering light running

19:39

out of water. Lower, a

19:41

single worried puddle, emblem of

19:43

the parched summer, wetlands, mist-softened

19:46

colors, across the marshy tree

19:48

falls, fracturing the lullaby of

19:51

the breeze. Pond. Sands mist,

19:53

sands most everything, no water,

19:56

no hooded regans or no

19:58

bitter, except for errant methane

20:00

bubbles in a lone turtle,

20:03

shiny disc with little web

20:05

feet right and sinking, a

20:08

reptilian marionette, frogs press against

20:10

the shoreline like S&H green

20:12

stamps to their pages, crickets,

20:15

early mornings metronome, a live

20:17

on the road, A-O-R, two

20:20

hermit rushes, wandering the edge.

20:22

Two little brown bats, Myotus

20:25

lucifugus, constricted figureates above the

20:27

front yard, trolling for flying

20:29

ants and mosquitoes, survivors of

20:32

their own pandemic. A solitary

20:34

tricolored bat pairing myotus subflavus,

20:37

a tiny, very tiny bat,

20:39

busily erratic, courses above treetops,

20:41

looks like a hummingbird moor,

20:44

a flesh-colored spark, combing insects

20:46

out of fertile airways, tricolored

20:49

bat, once known as the

20:51

Eastern Pipistrel, and little brown

20:54

bat both victims of white

20:56

nose syndrome ignored social distancing

20:58

at their own peril. Sound

21:01

familiar? Chickadee rips breakfast out

21:03

of a dewy spider web,

21:06

then sing. Reminds me of

21:08

the midwinter when spring was

21:10

a dream. Why sing when

21:13

the hollow faces autumn? Three

21:15

pewies join in, slurred whistles,

21:18

a dampened version of plaintiff's

21:20

summer song, equally longing, equally

21:23

sad, simple to mimic. First

21:26

winter ran, I've heard, in

21:28

more than two months, a

21:30

truncated version of the Eprovesant

21:32

Piccolo, which, when blended with

21:34

the drumming of a far-off

21:37

pilliated, ushers me back to

21:39

early May, when the mornings

21:41

were colder and bird songs

21:43

hotter, winter ran and pilliated,

21:45

the fife and drum core,

21:48

an unexpected engagement. Cat bird

21:50

meows, another pulse of red-breasted

21:52

not ashes, passes through karate

21:54

karate alo. nasal coals roll

21:56

off tree trunks like a

21:59

flock of tricycle horns. Ovenbird,

22:01

first I've heard Newmont, sings

22:03

a clip version of teacher-teacher-teacher,

22:05

teacher, more like, teach-teach, teach,

22:07

and encouraging note on the

22:09

threshold of the weirdest school

22:12

year I remember. Today, Lenny's

22:14

birthday, she would have been

22:16

69. When she died, I've

22:18

mourned what the boys had

22:20

lost and lamented her absence

22:23

from our lives, a litany

22:25

of inconsolible everyday losses, my

22:27

sorrow often masked by immersion

22:29

in family survival. I skated

22:31

around the death of hope,

22:33

stagnerly fragile, avoiding as best

22:36

I could, dwelling on personal

22:38

loss, the closest of friends,

22:40

companion, confidant, a fellow explorer

22:42

of the recesses of the

22:44

world. Oh how I missed

22:47

her burnt toast and her

22:49

infectious laugh, so buoyant and

22:51

contagious, but I had a

22:53

ship to write to write

22:55

Boys to grow. Casey and

22:58

Jordan loved to travel and

23:00

for the most part they

23:02

were easy to travel with.

23:04

Few complaints are outlandish requests.

23:06

The time they were infants

23:08

we took them everywhere. They

23:11

nursed themselves to sleep in

23:13

tents from Alaska to Newfoundland

23:15

to the desert southwest. A

23:17

hint of campfire smoke lingered

23:19

on the outdoor, Casey's outdoor

23:22

clothes. When Casey

23:24

was five and a boardwalk in

23:26

Florida, he lured a board owl

23:28

to within five feet, hooting softly

23:31

from the seat of his bicycle.

23:33

Jordan had never met a snake

23:35

or a frog he didn't like,

23:38

and he broadcast enthusiasm whenever he

23:40

discovered a strange-looking insect. Although the

23:43

boys loved the wonders of nature

23:45

and appreciated life's grand diversity, for

23:47

quite a while after their mother

23:50

died, I hardly took them anywhere.

23:52

Whenever we traveled as a family,

23:54

Linnie had been the organizer, the

23:57

program director. I'd been the consultant,

23:59

the mule, the cheerleader. She would

24:01

remember the toys, the books, the

24:04

snacks. Toniel clippers. After Linnie died,

24:06

life for that encompass seemed best

24:08

lived closer to home. Travel did

24:11

return to our lives, often with

24:13

a vengeance. But since the law

24:15

still lingers, yesterday Casey and Daughter-in-law

24:18

Becky texted me the sonogram of

24:20

a fetal heartbeat. I longed to

24:22

see Linnie's irrepressible smile one more

24:25

time. rising like the tide at

24:27

news should be a grandmother. Three

24:29

Phoebe chicks in the front yard

24:32

apple tree, wings drooping and quivering,

24:34

mouths cranked open, sunrise colors, begging,

24:36

begging, begging. I stop and watch

24:39

Phoebe destiny, mostly moise, a steady

24:41

progression of seasonal harvest. No matter

24:43

how much I ache, I can't

24:46

suppress smiling. Time has a way

24:48

of passing, of blunting loss. casting

24:51

light across dark shadows uncoiling the

24:53

future. Thank you, Ted. You're welcome.

24:55

Now, Linnie and your two sons

24:58

moved to this part of Vermont,

25:00

I think, in the 1990s. The

25:02

boy seemed to be off pursuing

25:05

their own destinies, and I'm truly

25:07

sorry for your loss. Well, thank

25:09

you. With a said, you no

25:12

longer live in that Vermont, and

25:14

the final entries are from... what

25:16

you call Hurricane Hill located in

25:19

another Vermont community. So was this

25:21

journal a form of closure for

25:23

you so you could move on

25:26

and embrace the next stage of

25:28

your life? Well it didn't turn

25:30

out that way because in the

25:33

beginning I didn't know that was

25:35

going to happen. Okay, in retrospect?

25:37

I guess it is in retrospect.

25:40

Yeah, but it was never planned.

25:42

You know, I frequently say this

25:44

was an inadvertent book. This was

25:47

not planned to be a book

25:49

when I started doing it. Oh,

25:52

really? That's very interesting. So, but

25:54

you did have... So how did

25:56

you come up with... the interior

25:59

structure of the days, you know,

26:01

from observation to reflection to quotes,

26:03

I mean, that just happened organically,

26:06

and it worked for one day,

26:08

and you decided to repeat that?

26:10

Yes. I mean, the quotes came

26:13

when I decided I was working

26:15

on a book. Okay, okay. The

26:17

quotes were not part of the

26:20

beginning, but what was part of

26:22

the beginning was sunrise time, the

26:24

difference between the sunrise from that

26:27

day and the day before. As

26:29

it evolved I began to see

26:31

that the one constant we have

26:34

on this planet is change. And

26:36

one of the easiest way to

26:38

see the change is note the

26:41

difference in the rising and setting

26:43

of the sun. As well as

26:45

the weather and all the little

26:48

parade of birds and animals that

26:50

I saw was different every day.

26:52

Well I found this book quite

26:55

different from your other books. If

26:57

you were going to have someone

27:00

read... a second book of yours

27:02

and you've got a number of

27:04

them which one would you point

27:07

them to just one just one

27:09

I would say America's snake okay

27:11

and that's about the rattlesnake it's

27:14

about the timber rattlesnakes and the

27:16

people that love them and the

27:18

people that hate them and its

27:21

place in American history okay great

27:23

which is significant if if there

27:25

was ever a national reptile reptile

27:28

it ought to be the timber

27:30

rattlesnake Listen, I used to have

27:32

a flag out here in my

27:35

flagpole that had, you know, the

27:37

Revolutionary War timber rattlesake on it.

27:39

Yeah, don't tread on me. Don't

27:42

tread on me, yes. Now I

27:44

know you... Icklin, Ben Franklin, had

27:46

an illustration of the 13 colonies

27:49

as a timber rattlesake, cutting in

27:51

sections, and he had a political

27:53

cartoon that divided refaul. Oh, that's

27:56

interesting. Didn't he also want the

27:58

turkey to be the national bird?

28:01

He did. Yeah. No, I know

28:03

you're headed off to Costa Rica

28:05

soon. And yet again, is there

28:08

any thoughts? a forthcoming book about

28:10

your experiences with that natural world?

28:12

I haven't really thought of that.

28:15

Okay. I haven't really thought, yeah,

28:17

there's a river in Southeast Arizona

28:19

that for years I thought deserved

28:22

a book. It's called the San

28:24

Pedro. It's the only undam river,

28:26

desert river left in the United

28:29

States. And it's a thorough, it

28:31

was where Coronado came up when

28:33

he was searching for the seven

28:36

cities of gold. There's a great

28:38

place to see Mammoth Dig on

28:40

the banks of the San Pedro

28:43

and Deep Southeast Arizona. It's the

28:45

avenue that jaguars and oscillates and

28:47

more gays cross into the United

28:50

States from Sonora. And if jaguars

28:52

were ever to repopulate the southwest,

28:54

that's one of the places they

28:57

would come. And of course now...

28:59

with our current political climate, if

29:01

a wall really did get built

29:04

there, that would end any chance

29:06

of those kinds of mammals returning.

29:09

Well, thank you. The book is

29:11

The Promise of Sunrise, finding solace

29:13

in a broken world, published by

29:16

Green Writers Press. Thank you, Ted.

29:18

You're welcome, Michael. Six

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