0:00

Welcome to NFL Daily,

0:02

where we're always trying not

0:04

to reach for quarterbacks. I'm

0:06

Greg Rosenthal. I'm in the

0:09

Chris Wesleyan podcast studio, and

0:11

I am joined by one

0:14

of the best minds in

0:16

the podcasting writing game. It's

0:19

John Ledyard. He's got the

0:21

Audibles and Analytics sub stack.

0:24

He's got a great podcast

0:26

with Ali Connolly. John, what

0:29

is happening? Man not

0:31

too much. Thank you for the kind words

0:33

first of all always fun to be on

0:35

here with you and talking some ball I

0:37

believe last time we talked we ranked in

0:39

tiered tight ends It was a lot

0:41

of a lot of backlash for that.

0:44

So I'm excited to I'm sure get

0:46

no backlash for today's podcast No, and

0:48

I don't even know if we're gonna

0:50

talk quarterback. So I've been not pimping but

0:52

getting ready for this week now for

0:54

a while saying like you know we're

0:56

getting into the draft it's been a

0:58

slow process I've got the weekly show

1:00

with Daniel Jeremiah Audibles and Analytics is

1:02

another one that people should check out

1:05

with you and Ali DJ and I

1:07

are on Thursdays but like now it's

1:09

go time we are two and a

1:11

half weeks out from the draft every

1:13

day now is draft and we're gonna

1:15

talk quarterbacks today and kind

1:17

of keep it specifically two quarterbacks and

1:20

I'm not I'm not going to put

1:22

you and make you do a ranking,

1:24

but we'll talk about good fits and

1:26

we'll kind of order him in some

1:28

sort of way. And I guess we

1:30

might as well just start at the

1:32

top. Now, because we've talked draft, it's

1:35

not like Cam Ward has not come

1:37

up on this show, but I don't

1:39

think we've died deep until what makes

1:41

him special, kind of what was your

1:43

journey with Cam Ward as a prospect

1:45

and where did you land in terms

1:47

of like how special do you think

1:50

he is? Yeah, the profile is weird

1:52

right away, 23 year old rookie. He'll be

1:54

three different schools. So you're already like, okay,

1:56

maybe it's a red flag right in one

1:58

of the schools. incarnate word which yeah yeah

2:00

which is it necessarily what you traditionally think

2:02

of as the trajectory but you know the

2:05

multiple schools saying you know we're starting to

2:07

move away that's more normal three is still

2:09

you know being an order rookie and I

2:11

to be honest with you Greg like people

2:13

just didn't talk about cam word like a

2:15

special should be the top overall pick even

2:17

the beginning of the season so to say

2:20

it's come out of nowhere isn't fair because

2:22

he's been on the radar for everybody for

2:24

everybody for a long time we've known the

2:26

skill set and the traits and the traits

2:28

are interesting I think this year he got

2:30

better in some really key ways though, which

2:33

makes him, you know, he's my top quarterback,

2:35

I think he's most people's top quarterback, the

2:37

NFL. Generally, everything we hear is, yeah, this

2:39

guy's going first and almost every team has

2:41

him first and it's not that close in

2:43

a tier by himself type of guy in

2:45

this class, I think. Now, I think one

2:48

of the things that it's really interesting is

2:50

one of the things he did really poorly

2:52

in the past was manage the pocket and

2:54

this is still an area of growth for

2:56

him and this is still an area of

2:58

growth for him, an area of growth for

3:00

him. didn't grow in a lot, but I

3:03

mean his pressure to Zachary went down this

3:05

year. 15.9% was a big step in the

3:07

right direction for him. So that, just the

3:09

ability to manage the game a little bit

3:11

better now, his footwork, he still needs some

3:13

work, he still needs some work in terms

3:16

of being able to set up the right

3:18

way, this footwork, he still needs some work

3:20

in terms of being able to set up

3:22

the right way, this guy, this guy, he's

3:24

still need some work in terms of being,

3:26

he's doing, he's doing, he's doing, he's doing,

3:28

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing,

3:31

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing,

3:33

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing,

3:35

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing,

3:37

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing,

3:39

doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, watching some

3:41

of the processing stuff get faster. And the

3:44

other key thing, I think he just throws

3:46

to every spot on the field, like he

3:48

will throw in breakers with anticipation, which to

3:50

me shows a lot of development and growth

3:52

there. He's playing a little bit of a

3:54

step ahead right now. So encouraging signs in

3:56

the right direction and some really key areas

3:59

of quarterback play this past season where why

4:01

I think he's really, not only is he

4:03

the best in the class, but he's moving

4:05

in the right direction. Right. It is. You

4:07

really don't know where these players are going

4:09

to land until pretty late in the process.

4:12

I remember our G3. There was no one

4:14

saying that he was going to be going.

4:16

top two until very late in that season

4:18

and Not to pick on him, but I

4:20

remember like a podcast episode Jim Nagy was

4:22

on who knows more about these prospects than

4:24

anyone He was running the senior bowl for

4:27

for many years and he was on with

4:29

McShay and he was talking in the middle

4:31

of this season Hey, hey, don't don't count

4:33

on Cam Ward as a first round pick

4:35

like the reason he went back to school

4:37

was teams were telling him he was a

4:39

fifth or sixth round pick if he was

4:42

going to come out last year He actually

4:44

wasn't even going to be invited to be

4:46

invited to the number one overall pick and

4:48

A, you don't know how a player is

4:50

gonna develop and then B, you don't really

4:52

know how teams are gonna look at him.

4:55

And I think when they look at his

4:57

tape from this season and I, I dove

4:59

into it, there's so much to be excited

5:01

about. I mean, putting a farve comparison on

5:03

someone is crazy, but because he definitely doesn't

5:05

have like that arm. But in terms of

5:07

the taking the chances. but enough of a

5:10

pocket feel like a better scrambler and athlete

5:12

than he is like a runner like then

5:14

you then he's sort of being given credit

5:16

for and just making it all happen like

5:18

I'm in like he's gonna add a lot

5:20

of value to my life John that's what

5:23

I care most about I think he's gonna

5:25

be box office and he's gonna be a

5:27

fun player to watch and that level of

5:29

chill that you described in terms of how

5:31

relaxed he is back there. I think there

5:33

is some negatives to it, but there's some

5:35

positives to it as well. He's certainly like

5:38

not afraid of the past rush, and I

5:40

think he plays in such a relaxed way.

5:42

It makes you think at least that mentally,

5:44

I think he's got a lot going on

5:46

where the game is not going on where

5:48

the game is not too fast for him,

5:50

certainly after all that college experience. Yeah, I

5:53

think that's the biggest thing is everything is

5:55

just sort of slow down for him. Like

5:57

he just feels more confident, things of the

5:59

early in the season where he was drifting

6:01

around in the pocket he was a little

6:03

bit unsure playing on time and then as

6:06

the season went on he was playing his

6:08

best ball he was getting the ball more

6:10

on time. So there's definitely things to work

6:12

on. This is not the most home run.

6:14

quarterback prospect that we've seen there by any

6:16

stretch of the imagination. There are things that

6:18

he needs to get better at. There is

6:21

bus potential here even, I would think I

6:23

would say. I don't know that that's what

6:25

that's not what I'm betting on happening, but

6:27

I think it's important to acknowledge that it's

6:29

more possible here than it's more possible here

6:31

than it is with a lot of cubie

6:34

ones in other drafts, not necessarily because this

6:36

draft is so bad that he shouldn't. and

6:38

those sorts of things combined with if the

6:40

pocket stuff doesn't get better because right now

6:42

he's getting the ball out on time more

6:44

and he's not taking sacks more than he

6:46

once did right but he's still making some

6:49

questionable decisions and he's still not setting up

6:51

properly all the time his setup is really

6:53

kind of all over the place terms how

6:55

he throws he doesn't mind drifting back and

6:57

throwing off his back foot and he and

6:59

Sanders honestly have some similarities in their weaknesses

7:01

Ward can get away with some of those

7:04

messy footwork things a little bit, but I

7:06

don't think like I said that it's going

7:08

to be quite at that level where it's

7:10

so special, doesn't matter what his feet look

7:12

like. I still think he needs to get

7:14

better at some of those details. So, and

7:17

if he doesn't, it's the type of thing

7:19

that could lead to like... pretty big lapses

7:21

in offense where he's not going to be

7:23

able to be just to manage the situation

7:25

type of player. He's going to be a

7:27

baller and that's either going to work or

7:29

it isn't. And so there is some bus

7:32

potential just in his profile as a player.

7:34

Ray, I'm trying to think of someone else

7:36

that would just be described as as chill

7:38

as he is. I mean, Sanders has some

7:40

of that in this game had a little

7:42

bit of that, that he was just so

7:45

big that he sort of didn't care what

7:47

was happening around it right in Tanahill. Weirdly,

7:49

just was kind of chill back there if

7:51

he wanted, but not like the same sort

7:53

of like loose athlete. The thing is, if

7:55

you're grading the flashes, you see it all.

7:57

You do see anticipation. You do see him

8:00

going through his reads. You see him kind

8:02

of lock in and lock out. in games,

8:04

but that shows me like, okay, maybe if

8:06

the competition in the NFL, maybe he can

8:08

lock in a little more consistently, let's think

8:10

about the fit with the Titans, because I

8:13

haven't really asked anyone about this or thought

8:15

about it too much, and don't think I'm

8:17

the right person to give an answer for

8:19

him with Brian Callahan. I feel like there

8:21

hasn't been a lot of talk of like,

8:23

okay, how do you think that works? I'm

8:25

not really sure what a Brian Callahan offense

8:28

is, so that's part of the difficulty here,

8:30

but how do you think with what you

8:32

know about Callahan and the Titans, like how

8:34

that fits together? It's really interesting because Callahan,

8:36

you know, was with Burrow and then got

8:38

to Tennessee and Not that surprisingly I guess

8:40

but try to run totally different stuff than

8:43

what he ran with Burrell like it didn't

8:45

look anything like the offense the Bengals run

8:47

not that not that really anybody looks like

8:49

the offense the Bengals ran so he I

8:51

really have no idea like he was with

8:53

Will Lewis and that didn't work and so

8:56

it was kind of like okay it was

8:58

more traditional stuff I think my guess is

9:00

that would be I think the thing with

9:02

Callan is he'll build the offense around the

9:04

player and Ward obviously didn't work under center

9:06

so is a lot of like going to

9:08

be a lot of gun stuff I think

9:11

will look just like a spread it around

9:13

the yard and throw it around everywhere like

9:15

Joe Burrow did I don't think that's in

9:17

the cards to me that would be really

9:19

surprising if they made it look just like

9:21

that is Ward gonna have to do some

9:24

more traditional quarterback stuff that he hasn't done

9:26

before I don't know this is the most

9:28

unknown fit of a top team in quarterback

9:30

that I can remember in a long time

9:32

because I don't know how the Titans even

9:34

in so recently I don't think people thought

9:36

they thought of him this way I don't

9:39

know how they see him I don't know

9:41

what they see as being the best fit

9:43

for him I don't think anything Callahan's really

9:45

done in the past year the two of

9:47

the Titans or with the Bengals is going

9:49

to be particularly, maybe I'll be wrong, but

9:51

I don't think it's going to be particularly

9:54

informative to us in terms of guessing what

9:56

he'll look like, what it'll look like with

9:58

Cam Wort, other than to say I think

10:00

there will be a lot of the gun

10:02

elements, but I bet that there's some more.

10:04

I mean, they ran a lot of, there's

10:07

a lot of RPOs in Miami's offense, like,

10:09

you know, I think there'll be some of

10:11

that still in Tennessee's offense as well, but

10:13

I am fascinated to know how much he's

10:15

gonna ask Kim Ward to be more traditional,

10:17

is there gonna be dropback stuff, is there

10:19

gonna be play action stuff, where he goes

10:22

under center, and like, I really don't know

10:24

if that's part of it, that's gonna be

10:26

so amazing to see if Ward can do

10:28

that. No, I mean meet him where he

10:30

is. Yeah, meet him where he is and

10:32

build an offense around his strengths and he

10:35

was very good at the RPO stuff and

10:37

Like I said, I think he'll be box

10:39

office and then you keep adding that It's

10:41

like it's like they did such a good

10:43

job with Jane Daniels Accentuating his strength a

10:45

very different player than Jane Daniels. He's gonna

10:48

have a lot of turnovers. I mean he

10:50

just is as a rookie but to me,

10:52

I want a player that's going to

10:54

entertain me. And so maybe it's the

10:56

Tennessee of it all, but there's like

10:59

a little cutler, like I knew cutler

11:01

would entertain me as a pro and

11:03

he absolutely did. And I think Ward

11:06

might end up fitting into that archetype

11:08

of people have compared him a little

11:10

bit to Jordan Love either way. Like

11:12

I think he's going to be fun

11:15

to watch. And so he's going to

11:17

be starting right away. And hopefully they

11:19

do meet him where he is. quarterback

11:22

in this class, but I think

11:24

the differing opinions are mostly about

11:26

do you just group shitter with

11:29

Jackson Dart and Tyler Shuck and

11:31

the rest of this crew as like

11:33

kind of a second group. I know

11:35

our friend Nate Tice does, for instance.

11:38

He just thinks the rest of the

11:40

group are varying levels of day two

11:42

dart throws and shidders in that group.

11:44

Or do you kind of see him?

11:47

a tear above, not really thinking about

11:49

where he's gonna go, because he's almost

11:51

certainly gonna go in the first round

11:53

somewhere, I think, but just more of

11:55

the total evaluation, because it's such a

11:58

hard, he's a tricky evaluation. He

12:00

is he's an interesting player. I think

12:02

the player that he most compares to,

12:04

we didn't talk about this too much

12:06

with Ward, I think, but with Sanders,

12:08

I think the player most compares to

12:10

is Brock Purdy at his best. If

12:12

he can be at his peak, I

12:14

think. They're both guys who take a

12:16

little bit of time to make decisions.

12:18

They have sort of a moxie about

12:20

how they play and a confidence about

12:23

how they play. They light told the

12:25

ball. They aren't gonna be amazing. testing

12:27

athletes. I don't think anybody would watch

12:29

them be like, oh, they're amazing. Like,

12:31

they're just so athletic, it's so springing

12:33

and twitching, but when it comes to

12:35

functional mobility for their position, I think

12:37

they both have enough. Purdy's probably a

12:39

little more athletic than Sanders, I think,

12:41

but I think they have enough. Purdy's

12:43

probably a little more athletic than Sanders,

12:45

I think, but I think they have

12:47

enough. Purdy's probably a little more athletic

12:49

than Sanders, I think, but I think

12:51

they have enough to, despite not, despite

12:53

not having a great, He's got some

12:55

of the best teammates in the entire

12:57

NFL. That's certainly he's got some of

12:59

the best coaching league All that is

13:02

aided the profile and what he's you

13:04

know somewhere in that probably 12 to

13:06

18 range his terms of best quarterbacks

13:08

in the league somewhere in there So

13:10

maybe that's the ceiling for Sanders, but

13:12

I see him pretty similar to Nate

13:14

does it sounds like in just that

13:16

thinking that at least he and Dart

13:18

are really different really different, but Maybe

13:20

the same tier to me Sanders is

13:22

sharp mentally, whereas Dart I think continues

13:24

to need to develop from the neck

13:26

up and with Sanders, I love that.

13:28

He looks like he's played quarterback for

13:30

a long time and that part is

13:32

natural to him. The accuracy in the

13:34

ball plays are natural, but I think

13:36

that there's real concerns over his arm

13:38

strength and his time to throw in

13:40

the pocket just how long it takes

13:43

him to make decisions. He knows what

13:45

to do. He knows what to do.

13:47

He just likes to play this like

13:49

hero mentality ball where he's probably going

13:51

to take shots and he doesn't mind

13:53

getting hit at all and he'll just

13:55

let himself get lined up and cleaned

13:57

up to make plays. So I think

13:59

Sanders has some of that without really

14:01

any of the physical tools that need

14:03

now. Right, at some point you would

14:05

think. that it's gonna come back to

14:07

get you, just taking the types of

14:09

hits that he did. And their offensive

14:11

line was terrible overall. I mean, it

14:13

really was, especially at the tackles. But

14:15

there were certainly plays where what you're

14:17

talking about comes into play, where he's

14:19

the one really just inviting that pressure,

14:22

and he tries to be a playmaker,

14:24

and he's not a great playmaker. The

14:26

best plays are definitely the ones that

14:28

are in structure. It always worries me

14:30

if you're betting. on intangibles. And I

14:32

just think it's such a hard evaluation

14:34

because he's been coached the same way

14:36

this whole time. He is a good

14:38

quarterback. Like does Travis Hunter like even

14:40

out like lifting him up because a

14:42

lot of his long plays like Travis

14:44

Hunter is making great plays on the

14:46

ball on those plays. So to me

14:48

it's very difficult when you're betting on

14:50

intangibles. I do think he's gotten a

14:52

bump from just it happens in some

14:54

drafts and it happens with some name

14:56

value occasionally and we'll have to wait

14:58

till the draft actually happens occasionally like

15:00

the NFL season totally differently and we

15:03

will. be just talking about him falling

15:05

down to the 20s. It would be

15:07

interesting, by the way, at the 49ers.

15:09

He was on the board for the

15:11

49ers. Would they ever just like totally

15:13

change course? It'd be like, yeah, we're

15:15

not gonna give you that contract, Brock

15:17

Pretty. That would be fun. I don't

15:19

think they would, but I don't think

15:21

they would. Not too surprising with the

15:23

daughters these days. They're wild and got

15:25

him. I think one of the crazy

15:27

things about Sanders profile. He is one

15:29

of the highest. I think it was

15:31

10th highest in the nationwide, all college

15:33

quarterbacks in an average time to throw

15:35

this pastured, to 3.12 seconds. This is

15:37

also one of the highest RPO in

15:39

screen heavy offenses in the league. How

15:41

do you end up with that time

15:44

to throw in an offense that has

15:46

this many RPOs and screens in it?

15:48

I mean, the offense is. painfully, painfully

15:50

simple, painfully, poorly constructed. They had playmakers

15:52

at some of these white-out spots and

15:54

they really let those guys rip but

15:56

this offense is I mean he's gonna

15:58

get to the NFL and be like

16:00

are you kidding me all this structural

16:02

stuff could help me I mean no

16:04

play action there's just so little in

16:06

terms of what would aid him as

16:08

a quarterback other than just get there's

16:10

place where he just gets place where

16:12

he just gets the ball out quickly

16:14

but in terms of downfield stuff he

16:16

created so much stuff and the athletes

16:18

they had created so much stuff on

16:20

their own there just wasn't a lot

16:23

of things that kind of Some of

16:25

it is just like, I'm not going

16:27

to play on time, like I'm playing

16:29

my way, I'm making a play. And

16:31

I just, the biggest thing to me

16:33

is if he was an unbelievable talent,

16:35

I would be like, yeah, I'm cool

16:37

with that, like, I can roll with

16:39

that. Because the arm, the ball just

16:41

dies all the time, the ball just

16:43

dies all the time down. Because the

16:45

arm, the ball just dies all the

16:47

time down all the time down the

16:49

time down the ball. the time and

16:51

you wish it wasn't the case because

16:53

you really loved the makeup of the

16:55

player and the toughness, his desire to

16:57

put the team on his back when

16:59

he knew the system wasn't great. But

17:01

I just don't think the tools will

17:04

translate to playing that way in the

17:06

NFL and I don't know if he

17:08

can continue to play in the NFL.

17:10

And I don't know if he can

17:12

continue to play in the NFL. And

17:14

I don't know if he can continue

17:16

to play there a lot. And so

17:18

what is that going to look like

17:20

at the pro level when the offense

17:22

he's in? has way more in terms

17:24

of how it attacks the field, so

17:26

it's going to stress defense as way

17:28

more, but I think it's also going

17:30

to ask him to do some things

17:32

that we didn't see in college. Yeah,

17:34

the out-of-structure play is you see the

17:36

arm strength. That is a huge difference

17:38

when you're watching Ward and him back-to-back.

17:40

Not that Ward is... Jordan love in

17:43

terms of just pure arm strength, but

17:45

it's still a plus arm that gets

17:47

it there and you do see the

17:49

ball died. There's a lot of contested

17:51

catches and that's from the pocket as

17:53

well, whereas it's contested and you're kind

17:55

of thinking, well, if it was someone

17:57

else throwing, maybe it wouldn't be a

17:59

contested catch. So a lot of tight

18:01

throws for shitter and yet. If you

18:03

told me Andy Dalton with swag, like

18:05

is an outcome, like that's a good

18:07

outcome for a late first round pick.

18:09

Andy Dalton's had an incredible career. Did

18:11

he have swag with that hair? He

18:13

does have swag. Maybe early Andy, I

18:15

should, I should have advised that. Did

18:17

not have swag. You are right. Although

18:19

more swag is he wed. I've heard

18:21

stories because I worked with Andrew Hawkins

18:24

who was on those Bengal's team. He

18:26

had AJ Green and he had, who

18:28

else was on that, was who? Manzada

18:30

on that team and Hawkins on that

18:32

team and they all respected the hell

18:34

out of 80 doll and they all

18:36

love Danny doll and so whether it

18:38

was Swag or not he was he

18:40

was a leader that was and I

18:42

think shitter has got to give you

18:44

that so like Look if we're feeling

18:46

like that's his for but I don't

18:48

think that's necessarily his for I think

18:50

it could go in a number of

18:52

directions because of those deep drops that

18:54

you talked about with with camp to

18:56

last thing on shitter is just kind

18:58

of who would you want to want

19:00

to see them with? You are in

19:02

his family and it's not about the

19:05

money in terms of the signing bonus.

19:07

You just think I want him to

19:09

land with the right system for him.

19:11

Like is there a fit for him

19:13

or a few fits out there that

19:15

you like? He's one that's multi-layered, right?

19:17

System-wise, two would he work best with

19:19

his one question? And then personality-wise, like

19:21

would he work with the Giants? I

19:23

just, I don't know. Because he's like

19:25

a big personality, you mean? I think

19:27

he's a big personality. I think he's

19:29

his own person, like unique from a

19:31

personality perspective, where like Brian Dable, like

19:33

what is he, is he gonna be

19:35

able to roll with like who Sanders

19:37

is and just the way he communicates

19:39

and all those sorts of things, like

19:41

I actually think of it as a

19:44

positive for Sanders. I, but I think

19:46

the fit matters because he isn't just

19:48

your, you're, and this is a good

19:50

thing, I think, and it can be

19:52

a really good thing. A traditional mold

19:54

at this position. Will Dable be able

19:56

to roll with that? I don't know,

19:58

maybe he will. He better be his

20:00

careers on the line. He's had a

20:02

lot of quarterbacks. To be fair to

20:04

Brian Dable, going back to college, going

20:06

back to. Tom Brady if you wanted,

20:08

Josh, you know, he, you gotta think,

20:10

if they took him, they'd have the

20:12

conviction that they're, that they're gonna make

20:14

that work. And I think, it's not

20:16

like, Shitter isn't gonna wanna be coach

20:18

started or anything like that. So, personality

20:20

wasn't less worried. It's more just like,

20:22

does that fit? Or where would he

20:25

fit? Yeah, I think, I mean, Pittsburgh's

20:27

an interesting one that's been talked about

20:29

a lot. I think from a personality

20:31

perspective, that's a great fit. It's hard

20:33

for me to say anybody, like Arthur

20:35

Smith's offense would be very different for

20:37

him from what he's run at Colorado.

20:39

Now, I think anything's going to be

20:41

different from what he's run at Colorado.

20:43

Now, I think anything's going to be

20:45

different. made his offense a lot of

20:47

different times, a lot of different ways

20:49

for different players. So he has shown

20:51

the desire to be flexible and meet

20:53

kind of meet who players are now.

20:55

None of that worked with Sean Watson

20:57

and maybe mostly because he wasn't the

20:59

player that he once was. So not

21:01

a thing was going to work. But

21:04

with Sanders, I think there is that

21:06

ad layer of like, okay, if this

21:08

player is willing to buy in here

21:10

and be a part of what we're

21:12

doing, we'll change and we'll adapt the

21:14

going to go to Cleveland. I'm not

21:16

exactly sure where he's going to go

21:18

before the Raiders got Geno Smith. I

21:20

was actually kind of interested in that

21:22

potential fit because I think he and

21:24

Pete's personalities would also be really fun

21:26

together and I would kind of love

21:28

to see that. I have no idea

21:30

how I would go with Chip Kelly

21:32

or what Chip Kelly's even get around

21:34

in the NFL. But so there's some

21:36

interesting ones maybe, but I do think

21:38

it's a trade back in. I'm not.

21:40

totally convinced that there's a lot of

21:42

teams that need them or value and

21:45

maybe in the first shot could he

21:47

be the first pick in the second

21:49

round? I mean, that would be interesting.

21:51

Maybe unlikely, but it's possible. I don't

21:53

know why I think the Rams are

21:55

the floor. I mean, there's no way

21:57

to know what the Rams are really

21:59

thinking. I think he would, I think

22:01

they're in the quarterback market in this

22:03

draft class and whether that's at 26

22:05

or they have to move up, they've

22:07

liked moving up, but it's gonna be

22:09

tough for them to do so. They

22:11

gave up an extra, they're missing a

22:13

pick. They would be quite a luxury

22:15

pick there at 26, but I could

22:17

see it happening and I think it'd

22:19

be an interesting fit in that system.

22:21

Let's take a quick break and we've

22:24

broken down the top two and we'll

22:26

get into the rest of the quarterbacks

22:28

right after this. Lo's

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Lo's.com/terms subject to change. Something

22:59

unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to

23:01

killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season

23:03

one. I just knew him as a

23:06

kid. Long silent voices from his past

23:08

came forward. And he was just staring

23:10

at me. And they had secrets of

23:12

their own to share. Gilbert came. I'm

23:15

the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I

23:17

was no longer just telling the story.

23:19

I was part of it. Every time

23:22

I hear about my dad, oh, he's

23:24

a killer, he's just straight evil. I

23:26

was becoming the bridge between a killer

23:29

and the son he'd never known. If

23:31

the cops and everything would have done

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their job properly, my dad would have

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been in jail. I would have never

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existed to find myself in this place.

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Now, I need to tell you how

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I got here. At the end of

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the day, I'm literally a son of

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a killer. Bone Valley, season two. Jeremy.

23:49

Jeremy, I want to tell you something.

23:52

Listen to new episodes of Bonav- Valley,

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24:08

Back on NFL Daily, and yeah, looking

24:10

at John here, it does remind me

24:12

of that tight ends ranking show. Which

24:15

in my head at the time was

24:17

gonna be the first of like an

24:19

off-season positional rankings show On around the

24:22

NFL and unfortunately that didn't didn't happen

24:24

All my friends remind me all the

24:26

time that I ruined everything No, we

24:29

had nothing to do with John John

24:31

Ledger maybe maybe we'll do it again

24:33

though in terms of the NFL daily

24:36

off-season programming, but I'm locked in on

24:38

the draft while I have you on

24:40

the show though. I do like, you

24:42

know taking us off track a little

24:45

bit. You do follow the Steelers pretty

24:47

close. And you just talked about Arthur

24:49

Smith. Like who would really fit in

24:52

Arthur Smith offense? And I do feel

24:54

like there's a dichotomy between maybe how

24:56

Arthur Smith gets talked about sometimes nationally,

24:59

like he's still skating on on some

25:01

of those tightens offenses, which now we're

25:03

like a little bit in the rear

25:06

view mirror and like What is Arthur

25:08

Smith really in 2025? As someone that's

25:10

breaking down the Steelers, because you do

25:12

it on Audibles and Analytics, it's your

25:15

sub stack, and you do that with

25:17

Ali, it's a great podcast, but you

25:19

also do extra coverage on your own

25:22

on the Steelers. I'm curious, where are

25:24

we in the Arthur Smith experience? Because

25:26

I'm getting more dubious by the year,

25:29

I will say that. Yeah, he's just

25:31

not very good or very modern. I

25:33

think it's part of the problem like

25:36

that you know That's the thing he

25:38

he thinks that the things he did

25:40

in 2019 are gonna really succeed still

25:43

in today's NFL and it just changes

25:45

too quickly like everything he's doing is

25:47

outdated I would even say at that

25:49

time It was close to being like

25:52

he had Derek Henry like that's what

25:54

he added that guy was awesome and

25:56

they had some other thing I mean

25:59

I think he I think they did

26:01

a good job with what they had

26:03

but yeah I mean that's not an

26:06

offense that anybody's thinking oh you should

26:08

replicate that in 2025 and he's thinking

26:10

that like that's what he wants to

26:13

replicate so You know the early down

26:15

runs and lots of first down runs

26:17

he's the second and long run guy

26:19

the play sequencing is an issue and

26:22

then I think the passing offense honestly

26:24

he gets he gets heralded as a

26:26

run game guy but the run games

26:29

have been bad for years if you

26:31

look EPA per play right that's where

26:33

that's where my basic mind looks at

26:36

it's like the run game isn't happening

26:38

he had the people to do it

26:40

even Atlanta wasn't happening to the consistency

26:43

that you would have wanted to. That's

26:45

absolutely right. I'm curious who would fit.

26:47

Who do you think would fit with

26:49

them at quarterback? To me, like he's

26:52

a guy that wants to go under

26:54

center, he wants to run play action,

26:56

he wants to rely on that part

26:59

of it, which I actually don't hate

27:01

that part of it. I wish the

27:03

play action was actually don't hate that

27:06

part of it, which I actually don't

27:08

hate that part of it. I wish

27:10

the play action was more threatening, was

27:13

more threatening, in the could be guys

27:15

that if you're just saying who's the

27:17

fit right now without needing a lot

27:19

of molding or changing, both of those

27:22

guys make sense. They've gone under center

27:24

a little bit. There's some play action

27:26

ability to them. They sort of have

27:29

things that he looks for from a

27:31

traits perspective. He wants to be able

27:33

to get the ball down the field.

27:36

Will Howard is not a big armed

27:38

guy. He threw the deep ball really

27:40

well last year. And so. And I

27:43

think both are guys, Dart is a

27:45

little bit more interesting, we could talk

27:47

more about him in a second, but

27:49

I think Howard's a guy, Lisa, if

27:52

he was there on the third round,

27:54

that he would see is, this guy

27:56

will do what I tell him to

27:59

do. And Russ didn't necessarily do that

28:01

last year all the time. And I

28:03

think, you know, there's always tension, do

28:06

that last year all the time. And

28:08

I think, you know, there's always tension

28:10

with him, you know, to say if

28:13

you're looking for someone to do what

28:15

is told. Aaron Rogers and Arthur Smith,

28:17

that could be fun. I mean, they've

28:19

both been paid contributors to McAfee, they've

28:22

got that in common, they're both a

28:24

little salty. It would be fun, just

28:26

from a content perspective. I'd be into

28:29

that. And yes, Will Howard, the Ohio

28:31

State quarterback, who will probably go in

28:33

the middle rounds somewhere. His old coordinator,

28:36

Chip Kelly, is with the Raiders. So

28:38

that's a connection that has been made

28:40

and probably about the point in the

28:43

draft where they'd think about taking a

28:45

quarterback there. Let's talk to our, and

28:47

maybe Howard too, but you mentioned Arthur

28:49

Smith, still trying to recreate the ideas

28:52

that worked for him, like so well

28:54

back six or seven years. That's like

28:56

a life lesson thing, too. Like there

28:59

are authors that have two or three

29:01

great books in them, but that's all

29:03

they have, or just even one great

29:06

book in them, and that's all that

29:08

happens. And to me, it doesn't diminish

29:10

how great that book was. And there's

29:13

actors, too, that they have like a

29:15

moment in time where they do what

29:17

they did, and it works amazingly for

29:20

three to five years, but they're not

29:22

gonna go to anything else. And maybe

29:24

Arthur Smith doesn't have a great second

29:26

book. No, it's a good point. I

29:29

think that could be true. In keeping

29:31

with your analogy, maybe Derek Henry was

29:33

the star actor and Arthur Smith was

29:36

the supporting actor? Sure, sure. So maybe

29:38

there's that kind of thing. Big Derek

29:40

Henry is a good place to start.

29:43

Although it's certainly, it was working. And

29:45

right, you know, I always have a

29:47

soft spot for him because I always

29:50

thought Ryan Tanahill in the right system

29:52

was gonna have a good career and

29:54

it took Arthur Smith to actually. There's

29:56

been comms to like a jail in

29:59

Hertz. The thing about Dar, and I

30:01

put this to Daniel Jeremiah last week,

30:03

but I'll put it to you too,

30:06

like, there is a lot of projection

30:08

there, because what you don't see from

30:10

him is some of the stuff you

30:13

see from Ken Ward and Shuder Sanders,

30:15

which is. Real quarterbacking, like it is

30:17

just the things that they're going to

30:20

ask him to do at the pro

30:22

level in terms of going through his

30:24

reads and anticipation in middle of the

30:26

field that there's not like a ton

30:29

of that on his tape. So how

30:31

do you when you're making the evaluation

30:33

work that into how you see him

30:36

projecting forward? Yeah, an offense that found

30:38

space a lot and it will miss

30:40

spread offense, RPOs, lots of that kind

30:43

of stuff. You know, pro defenses are

30:45

a lot better at just attacking and

30:47

eliminating offenses like that, especially from pressure

30:50

perspective, which they struggled with, honestly, and

30:52

almost, too, Dark gets crushed a lot.

30:54

Tons of mocks, even this guy, I

30:56

mean, he will throw while he's about

30:59

to get just destroyed. All three of

31:01

these top guys, like. no issues with

31:03

them at all in terms of the

31:06

toughness and the ability to make a

31:08

throw while they're about to get cleaned

31:10

out like these guys are all pretty

31:13

tough made of the right stuff mentally

31:15

for sure you know so the concern

31:17

with dark really is almost all to

31:20

many people say it's not an elite

31:22

town I think it's tape as a

31:24

passer reminds me a little bit of

31:26

Justin Herbert at Oregon who I did

31:29

not find that impressive to be honest

31:31

with you I thought there were physical

31:33

tools and moments and moments and throws

31:36

but consistency wise from a there were

31:38

a lot of issues. And I see

31:40

some of those issues with Dart too,

31:43

you know, I don't know whether he'll

31:45

make the jump that Herbert did at

31:47

the next level. I think that that

31:50

doesn't happen with everybody. But the blitzing,

31:52

because they were from the spread so

31:54

often, teams, all right, get the ball

31:56

out before we clean you out. And

31:59

sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. That

32:01

made Dart speed up a little bit.

32:03

GameScript got to a point where he

32:06

had to be the guy. It got

32:08

pretty rough at times. So yeah, I'm

32:10

a little bit scared of Jackson Dart

32:13

because I just wonder from the neck

32:15

up if there's enough right now to

32:17

be able to win. Like he's the

32:20

kind of guy where he could get

32:22

to the league if teams haven't done

32:24

their homework or if they haven't, it

32:26

just isn't the same on the board

32:29

as it is like when he gets

32:31

in the building and is out on

32:33

the field. I just wonder if it's

32:36

gonna it could be too big for

32:38

him and it could just be too

32:40

fast for him and I think that

32:43

part could be paralyzing to him and

32:45

some of the decision and the end

32:47

of the Florida game is. It gets

32:50

talked about, but it's legit. Like he's

32:52

playing well at old games, rolling as

32:54

soon as they, all right, you're the

32:56

guy, go make a drive, go win

32:59

us the game. It's ugly, Greg. I

33:01

mean, he's throwing the ball the other

33:03

team, they dropped a couple picks, like

33:06

it's, everything just breaks him down and

33:08

falls apart. So you file those moments

33:10

away, it's, you file those moments away,

33:13

it's, it's, everything just breaks them down

33:15

and falls down and falls apart. really.

33:17

You are going to have a vision

33:20

for him if you take him, but

33:22

him in particular I feel like you

33:24

would have had to done a lot

33:27

of work with him in terms of

33:29

the visits and Really understanding what he's

33:31

seeing because you don't see it and

33:33

I do knock him a little bit

33:36

that he was in that same system

33:38

for three years, so I want that

33:40

I want that thing to be mastered

33:43

by the end of it. I want

33:45

you to feel extremely comfortable and proficient

33:47

and intelligent in within that system by

33:50

the end of it. And that's where

33:52

I'm not really in on him. Whereas

33:54

Shader you're saying, does he really have

33:57

the athleticism to make up for you

33:59

know, what? the style of play that

34:01

he is, and I get that, but

34:03

I think you can see enough from

34:05

the neck up that can I see

34:07

him adjusting. I think Jackson Dart is

34:09

like that, but to a lesser degree,

34:11

because he's obviously a good athlete. He's

34:13

got a good arm, like it's easy

34:16

cheese out there, like, there's a couple

34:18

plays where he flips his hips and

34:20

he's running to the left and you're

34:22

like, oh, that's awesome, that's great. But

34:24

it's a lot of just one read

34:26

or just. project totally forward. That's it,

34:28

because I don't see it. I'm not

34:30

smart enough, at least from what we're

34:32

doing, to really project that forward. And

34:35

so I think you'd have to really

34:37

get to the heart of like why

34:39

he did what he did and that's stuff

34:41

to do from where we're sitting. His pocket

34:43

positioning is really good and that gives me

34:45

some hope for him. Whereas the other two

34:47

guys, I think they drift around and they

34:49

make things harder for their lines at times

34:52

because of where they are in the pocket.

34:54

I think Dard is pretty consistently in the

34:56

right spot in the pocket. He will move

34:58

up when he needs to. He actually is

35:00

a pretty good feel for pressure. Now he's

35:02

still despite that. ended up getting sacked a

35:04

lot I think because he didn't know necessarily

35:06

where to go with the ball or the

35:08

picture changed. I think he knew pressure was

35:10

coming. He he turtles, he takes the ball

35:12

with him. Like it's not like he's surprised

35:14

by the hit, but he just doesn't get

35:17

it out as much as he should. And

35:19

so that's his, he's over two years in

35:21

a row with over 19% pressure to sacrates

35:23

and very few throw away. So if you

35:25

look at his amount of times he gets

35:28

out and throws it out and throws it

35:30

out and throws it, the if you are

35:32

constantly taking sacks and you're not thinking fast

35:34

enough to get the ball out on time

35:36

in the NFL then you're just gonna get

35:39

bench like you're not or you're not ready

35:41

to play it so and a lot are

35:43

pos in this offense right so a lot

35:45

of stuff helping him kind of get the

35:47

ball he has flashes of it there is

35:49

there is a couple plays i think they

35:51

had a fourth down conversion against florida where

35:53

he goes one two three any hits a

35:56

deep crosser for a tight window for a

35:58

big play and it's like that's it But

36:00

that's so far the exception. He will

36:02

stare down guys and he will not

36:04

move through. He'll look at one side

36:06

of the field only and forget about

36:08

the other side. And so I just

36:10

think there's a long way to go

36:12

with him in terms of, and maybe

36:14

not a long way to go, like

36:16

maybe it happens more naturally once he

36:18

gets out of. the old miss and

36:20

he has different coaching, but the fact

36:22

that it used you said it didn't

36:24

happen yet gives me some pause and

36:26

some concern with him. Yeah, and the

36:28

ball location is is okay. It's the

36:30

same with Ward. It was just okay.

36:32

Sometimes it is a little off like

36:34

he's always maybe it's just the timing

36:36

where it just feels like he's a

36:39

beat late and when I was making

36:41

the Sanders comparison, I was kind of

36:43

like, you need something to maybe make

36:45

up for this stuff and everything seems

36:47

good enough. He's not, he's not, Jaylon

36:49

hurts as a runner. I mean, he's

36:51

a good runner, but he's, he's not.

36:53

That brings us to Milro. Okay, so

36:55

I've only watched so many quarterbacks here

36:57

and Jaylon Milro would be my fourth

36:59

of the ones that I watched. And

37:01

it's because if you put Jaylon Milro

37:03

in the NFL in the NFL. are

37:05

better runners right now. Like right now.

37:07

Like if. Yeah, Lamar, Jade and Daniels,

37:09

maybe is comfortably smaller. So I mean,

37:11

you're higher at risk probably. Those guys

37:13

were awesome. I think he's better than

37:15

hurts already as a runner. I mean,

37:17

Josh Allen is, I often say is,

37:19

a Josh Allen run is the most

37:21

efficient play in football. But in terms

37:23

of like, even Lamar is. is like,

37:25

half a step a lot slower, maybe

37:27

than he was, although he kind of

37:30

had it all back this year. I'm

37:32

thinking more about 23. Yeah, so honestly,

37:34

he might be, like, Jaylon Melrow day

37:36

one might be the best riding quarterback

37:38

in the NFL. And damn, like, that

37:40

alone is enough for me to like

37:42

him better than any other quarterback in

37:44

this class. Just that. as a baseline,

37:46

I don't think you should underrate that.

37:48

That is an amazing starting point, because

37:50

my God, is he a special runner?

37:52

And we can talk about the drawbacks,

37:54

and it's why he's not gonna get

37:56

taken in the first round, where, look,

37:58

if his season had ended, John, after

38:00

the first four games this season, because

38:02

he got hurt or something, like, where

38:04

would he go, do you think, by

38:06

the way? Just answer that thought, thought,

38:08

experiment. Would he be a first round

38:10

pick then? think so just because the

38:12

vetting process I think the word so

38:14

people get excited about him as a

38:16

college player and I think there's reason

38:19

but excited by him the NFL too

38:21

but I wonder if the process would

38:23

still bring out some of the words

38:25

in his game and at the end

38:27

of the day teams once it's easy

38:29

in the moment it's easy in the

38:31

moment it's easy in the moment once

38:33

it's in the moment once it's a

38:35

it's easy in the moment like I

38:37

mean he is truly one of the

38:39

most unbelievable athletes in the league of

38:41

this position and the size too and

38:43

the leadership too. I mean I think

38:45

that the intangibles are great too. However

38:47

yeah the the accuracy stuff is a

38:49

real concern. He did play the position

38:51

faster this year. He did play the

38:53

position faster this year. I don't know

38:55

if he played it better. If I

38:57

keep maybe didn't and so maybe that's

38:59

more of a concern but he really

39:01

improved time to throw in some of

39:03

those sorts of things. The accuracy was

39:05

still an issue I think. the fundamentally

39:07

the way he manages the pocket the

39:10

way manages the game is really sporadic.

39:12

It's hard to be to feel like

39:14

you have a reliable sense of what

39:16

he's going to do in a given

39:18

player given situation. So I think he's

39:20

difficult to coach especially at a level

39:22

where coaches are going to be like

39:24

this is what we do do it

39:26

for the most part. No, maybe not

39:28

all. The mocking him to Pittsburgh thing

39:30

that's very common right now. Did he

39:32

meet with them? Who's in that meeting

39:34

all that guys? Like, like that's happening

39:36

with him. Like I love the personality

39:38

of the player, like, and that's kind

39:40

of stuff. Tom and God betates, right?

39:42

It'd be such a funny fit in

39:44

the offense. So. Everybody's trying to figure

39:46

out where he goes. The reason we

39:48

keep bringing up the same couple teams

39:50

is they're really are only a couple

39:52

teams that need a quarterback. So it's

39:54

probably going to be a surprise team

39:56

that takes a couple of these guys.

39:59

But teams really feel like, yeah, this

40:01

class, we burn out who we want

40:03

or we're not going to get a

40:05

guy who can play. So I think

40:07

you could go to any team because

40:09

it's just sort of like a rock

40:11

canvas in terms of what you're working

40:13

with and his approach. you know the

40:15

Alabama thing plus the personality I think

40:17

is everybody's like could he could he

40:19

be our jail and hurts I'm more

40:21

explosive you know could that be the

40:23

case and that's probably the best case

40:25

scenario I'd say maybe for I mean

40:27

that yeah that would be that would

40:29

have been incredible I mean he he

40:31

is a next level athlete and so

40:33

I have a friend Adam West who

40:35

you guys know if you listen to

40:37

the show the Saints Block Party podcast

40:39

and by the way he's he's been

40:41

pumping up like dart to the Saints

40:43

to the Saints to the Saints for

40:45

anyone involved, but he was like, you're

40:47

gonna love Millrow and you watch him.

40:50

And of course I do, because how

40:52

can you not be exciting watching him?

40:54

And the thing I would just push

40:56

back slightly on the passing, which is,

40:58

it's pretty erratic, it's pretty rough. There

41:00

were legitimate spots in his career where

41:02

he had to make throws to win

41:04

games, and he made them. And so

41:06

like. He's not gonna be a plus

41:08

plus thrower and that's maybe gonna like

41:10

limit his ceiling But there were third

41:12

and nine situations these playing Georgia this

41:14

year and he he has to make

41:16

the throw and he did make it

41:18

So it's not like you're working with

41:20

nothing as a thrower and so I

41:22

just it would have to be with

41:24

the right fit and it might be

41:26

a third fourth round I'm not saying

41:28

you would you would take him really

41:30

it might be with the team like

41:32

the Cardinals who don't need anything right

41:34

now but are just like hey maybe

41:36

in a couple years Jaylyn Millrow would

41:38

be an interesting option like instead of

41:41

Kyler it might be like something like

41:43

that but if you're telling me he's

41:45

starting out his career as like a

41:47

plus like version of taste some hill

41:49

or something that comes in for a

41:51

little bit. Sean, like I'm buying that

41:53

as a mid-round pick, that would be

41:55

kind of fun. Come on John. As

41:57

a mid-round pick, I 100% agree. Like

41:59

I would. I would be really in

42:01

because there are a lot of things

42:03

here worth working with and you said

42:05

like the big time throw rate this

42:07

guy really made a lot of high

42:09

degree difficulty throws too. It isn't like

42:11

he's never hit anybody on a pass

42:13

or something like somebody gets talked about.

42:15

I think the consistency at the position,

42:17

which is I think the most underrated

42:19

part of quarterback play is not the

42:21

hindsight, but the consistency is where you

42:23

really get concerned about him. Is that

42:25

going to be able to evolve or

42:27

grow in the NFL? But like, would

42:30

you rather take a chance on somebody

42:32

who's already, as you said, starting from

42:34

an unbelievable mobility perspective or You know,

42:36

we'll talk about him maybe a little

42:38

bit, but like somebody like Tyler Shuck

42:40

combined it all it's all happening It's

42:42

all happening. It's all happening. Yeah, and

42:44

I'm not like I would have I

42:46

would have no row ahead of Jackson

42:48

Dark ultimately not that I get why

42:50

Why he in a generic board, but

42:52

just that In the terms of ways

42:54

that I think different people are going

42:56

to want to miss in different types

42:58

of ways I would be more comfortable

43:00

missing with mill row I feel like

43:02

Jackson's art's giving me too much like

43:04

drew lock vibes of the type of

43:06

quarterback where it doesn't work whereas if

43:08

you have a vision of how mill

43:10

row could work. All right let's throw

43:12

Shuck in here too so Tyler Shuck

43:14

an older prospect at Louisville he was

43:16

in the same prospect class as Trevor

43:18

Lawrence which is outrageous And Justin Fields

43:21

too, right? He was in that class

43:23

too, even though he came out a

43:25

year. later and so that to me

43:27

is a little bit of a knock.

43:29

Give me give me give me your

43:31

Tyler Shuck thoughts. Give me your Tyler

43:33

Shuck thoughts. And yet he has 400

43:35

less career dropbacks than Jackson Dart. Oh

43:37

wow. Because way less way less than

43:39

Sanders and Camp Ward. He only has

43:41

1,095 dropbacks and six cold seasons was

43:43

injured during that seventh. He is one

43:45

of the oldest players in the class

43:47

as we mentioned. Oh be 26 as

43:49

a rookie rookie. However, He's also one

43:51

of the least experienced. That is a

43:53

tough combination in a position where experience

43:55

matters greatly. Now I will say this,

43:57

there are some plays and this is

43:59

why people like Todderschuck. Everything is textbook,

44:01

Greg. Backfoot hits, ball comes out, anticipation,

44:03

throw a middle of the field on

44:05

a dig, right in the zone window.

44:07

It's beautiful. And that's where the coach

44:10

people love Tyler Shuck, where they're like,

44:12

this guy does exactly what I asked

44:14

him to do. He plays on time,

44:16

this is great. And he's talented. It's

44:18

not like he's not talented. He is

44:20

very talented. He's not just like a

44:22

system guy. Like there are some beautiful

44:24

throws he can move. Like he is

44:26

talented. I do want to say that

44:28

while I'm about to kill him. Yeah,

44:30

and he has good enough arm. He's

44:32

size. He's size. He's drop-backs under center.

44:34

All the stuff that you know. The

44:36

coach. The coach. The coach. The coach.

44:38

People. And the coach is. He just

44:40

can't create. He's not a creator whatsoever.

44:42

31 throwaways this season, super high number.

44:44

His improvement in taking sacks is notable,

44:46

but two things, his lack of creation

44:48

is an immense problem in my opinion

44:50

because in the NFL you're going to

44:52

be under pressure. So when you can't

44:54

create under pressure and you don't have

44:56

any desire to either, you're just trying

44:58

to get the ball out of your

45:01

hand all the time, that's an issue

45:03

because you're going to be in situation.

45:05

So yeah, if he gets in a

45:07

game and everything goes perfect, They blitz

45:09

him and he's in trouble. And what

45:11

does this guy do? He's been hurt

45:13

a million times, right? All over his

45:15

tape, Greg. He's falling away at the

45:17

top of his drum. 10, 12 yards

45:19

deep in the pocket. He's trying to

45:21

get as far away from the defensive

45:23

line as possible. Pressure gets through even

45:25

in his vicinity and he's falling off

45:27

his platform. He's falling away from contact.

45:29

The ball's dying on him. He's trying

45:31

to throw it away. He's panicking. I

45:33

just don't think the negative, I think

45:35

the negatives are so bad with them

45:37

that I just don't think it's ever

45:39

going to be consistent enough in the

45:41

NFL. Could he be, he'll be a

45:43

backup because if for a team that

45:45

hopefully doesn't need to play him that

45:47

often, but because I think he'll impress

45:49

in all the ways that you impress

45:52

until the bullets start flying. But once

45:54

the bullets start flying, I just think

45:56

there's too many issues like the bad

45:58

stuff is going to be really bad

46:00

even if like on paper, like on

46:02

paper it makes sense. that this guy

46:04

could do what we want him to

46:06

do, but I just don't think when

46:08

you get in the game, there's not

46:10

that same level of aptitude and stressful

46:12

situation. Yeah, you gotta have a code

46:14

at some point when you're evaluating these

46:16

guys. What's your type? What do you

46:18

like? And to me, it's pocket presence,

46:20

it's the ability to not panic against

46:22

pressure is probably the number one thing

46:24

I'm most confident in. absolute number one

46:26

thing that will unravel good quarterbacks average

46:28

quarterbacks below average quarterbacks it's what separates

46:30

guys who have long careers and that

46:32

to me was just like a cross

46:34

off for what you said like the

46:36

falling off and I just I just

46:38

didn't not my guy I'm it'll be

46:41

someone's guy Greg Costell had him second

46:43

and I kind of get it where

46:45

in this class after cam ward you

46:47

could make the case of depending on

46:49

what you like of six seven different

46:51

types of guys but in this case

46:53

I think we're right, because I think

46:55

it's just gonna be a cross out

46:57

for him in terms of being able

46:59

to play against pressure and we don't

47:01

need to bury the kid. He is

47:03

at 96 in the consensus board, by

47:05

the way. So he's, some people probably

47:07

have him even higher than that, he

47:09

might go second or third round. All

47:11

right, of the rest of the guys,

47:13

and we're gonna wrap up here quickly,

47:15

but I just will give the floor.

47:17

to you. I don't know if those

47:19

are the consensus top five. We probably

47:21

hit the consensus top four of Milrose

47:23

in that. We mentioned Will Howard already

47:25

who could be a guy from Ohio

47:27

State. Quinn, Ewers, I feel like has

47:29

not been. talked up throughout the process

47:32

from Texas, but someone might like them.

47:34

Dylan Gabriel from Oregon, Kyle McCord from

47:36

Syracuse, maybe Riley Leonard who, who Nate

47:38

Tice is still holding out like a

47:40

little bit of hope for from Notre

47:42

Dame. Is there any of the other

47:44

quarterbacks that catch your eye the most

47:46

that you that you like or even

47:48

just that you think you have something

47:50

interesting to say about those guys? Well,

47:52

McCord is probably the interesting one, I

47:54

guess. really high on him. I do

47:56

like Will Howard a little bit. I

47:58

think he belongs in this conversation. I

48:00

will say that with with this kind

48:02

of next group. But you know, I

48:04

mean, there's a real path to me

48:06

where Will Howard's better than Jackson Dart

48:08

eventually and the vegan and maybe Sanders

48:10

too. I think like that's possible because

48:12

those guys have some like potentially fatal

48:14

flaws and Will Howard doesn't have any

48:16

of the like high on stuff they

48:18

have, but doesn't maybe have those fatal

48:21

flaws. So, you know, so much of

48:23

this is fit with these guys. Once

48:25

you get to limited players, you get

48:27

you get into massive fit conversations of

48:29

fit questions. So I wouldn't be offended

48:31

by anybody who ranks these guys in

48:33

the same tier, I think. So everybody

48:35

who ranks these guys in the same

48:37

tier, I think. So everybody else to

48:39

me after the Sanders shook, Dart, Howard

48:41

kind of grouping, but you could disagree

48:43

with me on my. Joe, John, you

48:45

can say that's a bad, Reagan. I'm

48:47

just thinking about what I would want

48:49

as a backup. He would be a

48:51

fun backup. Like, once you get him,

48:53

you probably need about a year. But

48:55

a fun backup that gives you a

48:57

different look for a couple games. Anyways,

48:59

I'll be a different look for a

49:01

couple games. Anyways, I'll show up. Anyways,

49:03

I'll show up for a couple games.

49:05

Anyways, I'll show up. I'll show up.

49:07

I'll show up. I'll show up. I'll

49:09

show up. I'll show you. I'll show

49:12

up. I'll show up. I'll show up.

49:14

I'll show up. I'll show up. I'll

49:16

show up. I'll show up. I'll take

49:18

a back. I'll take a back. I'll

49:20

take a back. I'll take a back.

49:22

I'll take a back. I'll take a

49:24

back. I'll take a back. I'll take

49:26

a back. I'll take a back. I'll.

49:28

I'll we're talking about now is you

49:30

get closer and you start hearing people

49:32

in the league talk it's like wait

49:34

you're gonna take this guy the top

49:36

100 is that bad? Oh okay. He's

49:38

a guy that can, like, if you

49:40

talk about high degree difficulty throws, he

49:42

can make him and he made him

49:44

more of this past year at Syracuse

49:46

than we even saw in Ohio State.

49:48

It was interesting. It was, he wasn't

49:50

good enough to elevate the talent at

49:52

Ohio State, but he didn't really need

49:54

to elevate the talent at Ohio State,

49:56

but he didn't really need to, right?

49:58

There's great talent there. There's great talent

50:01

there. So it was like, he didn't

50:03

really need to, right. Right. There's a

50:05

step in the right. I think there's

50:07

a lot of concern just going to

50:09

throw the ball the other team all

50:11

the time. And so, you know, the

50:13

Mitchell Trabisk, he's been a common comp

50:15

for him, and I think it makes

50:17

a lot of sense. Is there a

50:19

world in which Trabiski could have turned

50:21

down to a better pro? I don't

50:23

think so. Teams might think so. I'm

50:25

not particularly high on McCord, but... to

50:27

me, he's more interested in Gabriel or

50:29

yours or some of those other guys

50:31

that maybe are gonna be talked about

50:33

in this range of the draft. Well,

50:35

he would certainly take Trebiski's career because

50:37

he'd be a mid-round pick that lasted

50:39

in the league, not that he would

50:41

get the starts that that Trebiski got

50:43

because of his draft status. I appreciate

50:45

it. There's no need to try to

50:47

force it. It is a thing that

50:49

happens with these drafts with the quarterbacks,

50:52

with the quarterbacks, the most notable recent

50:54

example, It's funny to look back at

50:56

now. Going into that draft, the consensus

50:58

board among the draft Knicks had Malique

51:00

Willis 10. He's on his second team

51:02

and has found a great spot. Now

51:04

he looks like one of the best

51:06

backups in the league, but he was

51:08

at 10. Pickett was at 15. Ritter

51:10

was at 31. He's on his third

51:12

team. Can he pickets on his third

51:14

team? Matt Corral, who's now throwing the

51:16

passes at the coming. Powell was at

51:18

46, Carson Strong was at 78. So

51:20

you don't need to just push up

51:22

quarterbacks just because they're the quarterbacks. And

51:24

it's not like there were guys later

51:26

in the draft other than Purdy. that

51:28

ended up making it happen, but pretty

51:30

did make it happen. So I. Legals

51:32

is my top court back that year

51:34

and I think he was in the

51:36

70s. You don't need to force it.

51:38

It is closer to one of those

51:40

years. I would say this class, I

51:43

will say this class, I will say

51:45

this class is better. Oh yeah, it's

51:47

way better. I agree with that. I

51:49

think Shitter Sanders at worst is gonna

51:51

have a long career in the league.

51:53

I'm excited about getting to watch Cam

51:55

Ward every Sunday every Sunday and then.

51:57

I do think Millrow's got a chance

51:59

and Dart certainly has a chance and

52:01

some of these other guys, they got

52:03

a chance. John Ledgerd, appreciate you coming.

52:05

on check out audibles and analytics with

52:07

Ali Connolly. Anything else you want to

52:09

pump up? Because look, if you're a

52:11

Bucks fan, you're probably a lot of

52:13

Bucks content, a lot of Steelers content,

52:15

and then you two cover the entire

52:17

league. Yeah Bucks and Steelers content lots

52:19

of NFL draft scouting reports going up

52:21

right now on the site just published

52:23

like five safety reports Ali and I

52:25

did in-depth podcast about the safety class

52:27

and the running back class this week

52:29

and we went through our tears and

52:32

rankings and evaluation and evaluation so lots

52:34

of those kind of fun conversations happen

52:36

in there we'll get corners next week

52:38

we get linebackers coming up here soon

52:40

finish this thing out strong going into

52:42

the draft so yeah if people are

52:44

interested you're not afraid to bury the

52:46

bury guys you know you just bury

52:48

them confidence that comes with like a

52:50

jaw that square that John is posted

52:52

here. Does it by burying these young

52:54

men? No, I'm kidding. I like the

52:56

honesty. You guys talk like like the

52:58

scout like the front offices talk. Yes,

53:00

they they're all doing the same thing.

53:02

It makes sense. All right. That's it

53:04

for today's show hit the music Eric.

53:06

We got a big week. So I

53:08

mentioned we're we're really zeroing in on

53:10

draft coverage. We've got our first mock

53:12

draft of draft season, maybe the last

53:14

probably the last with Nate Tice coming

53:16

up on our Tuesday show. So stay

53:18

tuned for that one. We got DJ

53:20

later in the week. We got a

53:23

great week of guest. Nick Shook coming

53:25

up to football's back. Didn't land it.

53:27

Are you fumbling when it comes to

53:29

getting a confident Something

54:32

unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed

54:35

to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone

54:37

Valley season one. Every time I

54:39

hear about my dad, oh he's

54:41

a killer, he's just straight evil.

54:43

I was becoming the bridge between

54:45

Jeremy Scott and the sun he'd never

54:48

known. At the end of the day,

54:50

I'm literally a son of a killer.

54:52

Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley

54:54

season two starting April 9th on the

54:57

I-Hart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

54:59

you get your podcasts. podcasts.