0:00

Today we're going to talk about how

0:03

Democrats dig themselves out of the hole

0:05

that they've created. And I have three

0:07

interviews this week. I interview Congressman Jamie

0:09

Raskin about how he legally outsmarted Elon

0:11

Musk, Attorney Norm Eisen about his big

0:13

court win against Trump, and being called

0:16

out by Trump during his DOJ press

0:18

conference, and Senator Mark Kelly about Elon

0:20

Musk calling him a traitor. I'm Brian

0:22

Taylor Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie.

0:24

Let's get right into it. Bad week for

0:26

Democrats. We have a fundamental problem on the

0:29

left with being prepared to fight. When

0:31

we're in the majority we are not willing to

0:33

fully exercise our power, and when we're in

0:35

the minority, even in the instances where we

0:37

have leverage, we're not willing to use it

0:39

there either. The simple question here becomes,

0:41

why should people vote to give you power if

0:43

you're not going to wield it once you have

0:45

it? The problem with last week's continuing

0:47

resolution, the CR, is that we were

0:49

led to believe that we would use

0:51

it to extract concessions from the right if

0:54

ever, Democrats we're going to come on board. After

0:56

all, it required 60 votes in the

0:58

Senate, Republicans only have 53, they would

1:00

need our buy-in. And so, use it to

1:02

neuter dodges overreach, use it to prevent

1:04

federal firings, use it to ice

1:07

out Elon Musk, use it to

1:09

guarantee protections for Medicare Medicaid and

1:11

Social Security, use it in some

1:13

way to garner concessions. That didn't

1:15

happen. The CR passed, and it included

1:17

major cuts to federal programs, and

1:19

the Democrats have nothing to show for

1:22

it, other than the government being open.

1:24

There were some arguments that were persuasive to

1:26

me in terms of why it was important

1:28

to keep the government open. First and foremost,

1:30

for me, the courts essentially stop functioning.

1:32

The courts are our best bulwark against

1:34

Trump. They are why his attacks on

1:37

birthright citizenship aren't working. The courts are

1:39

why the fired probationary employees have to

1:41

be reinstated. The courts are why Doge

1:43

is being blocked from accessing personal, identifying

1:45

information from Americans. I host two legal

1:47

shows on YouTube where I speak about

1:49

the courts every single day. We need

1:52

the courts to keep functioning because they're

1:54

our best weapon right now. If the

1:56

government shuts down, they stop functioning. That's

1:58

persuasive for The problem is that

2:00

this case wasn't made beforehand. Beforehand, we were

2:03

told that we were going to fight this,

2:05

that we weren't going to cave, that the

2:07

Republicans need us, and we're going to use

2:09

what little leverage we have, and we're going

2:11

to stand up and show some spine. And none

2:13

of that happened. for a democratic base

2:16

that is desperate to stand up

2:18

and fight back against this administration,

2:20

an administration that is waging unprecedented

2:22

war on this country, this felt

2:24

like betrayal. Again, at least for me,

2:26

it's not necessarily about forcing the government

2:28

to stay open versus shut down. That's

2:31

not the principal issue here. The principal

2:33

issue is that we are coming to

2:35

the realization that Democrats are simply not

2:37

willing to fight on the same playing

2:39

field as Republicans. It's that the Democrats

2:41

are forever going to be this party

2:43

that will allow the parliamentarian to shut

2:45

down our entire agenda while the Republicans

2:48

won't even let the U.S. Constitution

2:50

shut down theirs. We are desperate for fighters,

2:52

for brawlers, for killers. I think that

2:54

Mitch McConnell is going to live out

2:56

eternity in the depths of hell for

2:58

the ways that he has fundamentally broken

3:00

our democracy. But you won't find anyone

3:02

on the left who won't acknowledge how

3:04

effective he's been at fighting and at

3:07

winning and at getting what he wants.

3:09

The thing is that we've already been through the

3:11

part where we admonish Republicans

3:13

for being hypocrites and liars. Right? We've spent

3:15

the last decade saying, how dare you, how

3:17

dare you give a seat to Amy Coney

3:19

Barrett, but not Merrick Garland. How dare you

3:21

say that you're going to protect, earn benefits,

3:24

but then you pass a budget cutting

3:26

them. We've already done the thing where

3:28

we call out their hypocrisy and their

3:30

lies. It doesn't matter anymore. We are

3:32

in a post-hypocracy and post-truth world.

3:34

It doesn't get us anywhere to call it

3:36

out. They know. They don't care. They don't care.

3:38

So at this point. Our options are that

3:41

we can keep bitching and complaining

3:43

about it and wallowing and self-pity

3:45

and despair that this asymmetry exists,

3:47

or we can fight back. I'm tired

3:49

of option one. I am desperate for option two,

3:51

and I know I'm not the only one. I

3:53

keep waiting for the moment where our

3:56

elected officials recognize that. We're clearly

3:58

not there yet. The amazing thing... is that

4:00

normally our problem is apathy. Normally,

4:02

no one's paying attention and that's

4:05

our biggest problem. We've got the

4:07

opposite problem right now. People are

4:09

paying attention and they're agitating and they

4:12

are looking to take to the

4:14

streets and to town halls and they

4:16

want to fight back. And most importantly,

4:18

they want the people who represent

4:20

us in office, who we elected, who can

4:22

fight back, to use every lever at their

4:25

disposal to do it. And if this crop

4:27

of elected officials won't. then people

4:29

are going to elect new ones

4:31

who will. And I'm not talking

4:33

progressive versus moderate, I am talking

4:35

fighters versus non-fighters. Mark my

4:37

words as we head toward midterms, that's

4:39

going to be the whole ballgame.

4:42

Because, frankly, the future of the

4:44

Democratic Party depends on it. Next

4:46

up are my interviews with Jamie Raskin,

4:48

Normison, and Mark Kelly. No

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5:54

So we have seen numerous efforts by

5:57

Elon Musk to try and kind

5:59

of circumvent the law and tell

6:01

the courts and tell the government

6:03

two different things, that effort has

6:06

kind of backfired at this point.

6:08

Can you explain the the the

6:10

the move that you just made? Well,

6:12

they were trying to squeeze out

6:15

of any kind of responsibility or

6:17

accountability by saying that

6:19

they just reported directly

6:21

to the president and they

6:23

weren't actually a federal agency.

6:26

but they were a federal entity. The

6:28

courts ruled that they were indeed an

6:30

agency because they read their own statements

6:33

and professions that they had all

6:35

kinds of power over the budget

6:37

to be targeting different entities

6:40

and so on. So in any event,

6:42

we've got district court rulings now

6:44

that they are a federal agency.

6:46

Well, one of the implications of

6:49

being a federal agency is your

6:51

subject to FOIA. And all federal

6:53

agencies in departments. have

6:55

got to give us the

6:58

American people, we own the

7:00

government, the data about us.

7:02

Now, most departments and agencies

7:04

have been vigilant about protecting

7:07

the security and the

7:09

privacy of people's information,

7:12

but everybody's freaking out

7:14

about Elon Musk and Doge

7:16

having control over their data

7:18

because he, of course, is trying

7:20

to train his whole... artificial

7:23

intelligence system. Grock, he's trying

7:25

to create, or he's trying

7:27

to turn X into a

7:29

financial payment system. I mean,

7:32

you know, like everybody

7:34

else in the Trump

7:36

administration of the cabinet, he

7:38

is trying to be both a

7:41

government leader and official and

7:43

employee, and also run private

7:45

corporations to get money from

7:47

the government. So it is

7:49

a bundle of conflicts.

7:52

The courts have said that

7:54

this is a federal agency

7:56

and given that it's a

7:58

federal agency. We have the right

8:01

to know what data they've got on

8:03

us, and we have a right to

8:05

know whether they've shared that with any

8:07

third party, whether a private corporation or

8:09

another public entity, and we've got the

8:11

right to get them to correct any

8:13

inaccuracies that may have been added

8:15

to our data. So, okay, so FOIA is

8:18

Freedom of Information Act, meaning when you

8:20

make a request of the government, they

8:22

have to tell you, they have to

8:24

reveal what they've been doing. And so,

8:27

in theory, now because Elon Musk, now

8:29

because it's been ruled to be a

8:31

government agency, they're subject to the same

8:34

FOIA rules as every other government agency.

8:36

And so my question here becomes. How

8:38

do we know that they're going to

8:40

comply with these requests and that they're

8:43

going to comply accurately? Because even within,

8:45

within, you know, I don't know how

8:47

much we can trust Doge itself to

8:49

be the ones to police whether Doge

8:52

is accurately complying with the request that

8:54

the government is making of it? Well,

8:56

and you're totally right. As far as I

8:58

can tell from the Doge website, they

9:00

don't even have a FOIA unit. as part

9:03

of their operation. And the website

9:05

itself shows, is rife with inaccuracies.

9:07

I mean, the whole point of

9:09

Doge is to eliminate waste fraud

9:11

and abuse. They have eight million

9:13

dollar, they have eight million dollar

9:15

cuts that are being billed as

9:17

a billion dollar cuts. They have

9:20

things that were cut during the

9:22

Biden administration giving, being presented as

9:24

if as if it's happening right

9:26

now. And so just to your

9:28

point, I mean, the Doge itself

9:30

is not exactly some. some trustworthy

9:32

arbiter of what they're doing here.

9:35

No, and they're not in pursuit

9:37

of corruption. They're not trying to

9:39

ferret out waste, fraud, and abuse.

9:41

On the contrary, they have sacked

9:43

18 inspectors general who are

9:45

the real anti-corruption fighters, the people

9:47

who really get rid of waste

9:49

and fraud and kickbacks and corruption

9:52

and abuse taking place in the

9:54

departments. But those were the first

9:56

people they targeted to get rid

9:58

of them clearing the way. for corruption

10:00

and of course they've dismantled enforcement

10:03

of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

10:05

They're trying to clean house at

10:07

the Department of Justice to essentially

10:10

get rid of the Public Integrity

10:12

Unit, totally demolishing the top leadership

10:15

of it, and so on. And

10:17

we know that Elon Musk gets

10:19

tens of billions of dollars in

10:22

government contracts and they're seizing control.

10:24

over the payment systems and over

10:27

everybody's data. So look, the Privacy

10:29

Act of 1974 established that we

10:31

all have control over our own

10:34

data. I mean, that's really one

10:36

of the critical differences between living

10:39

in a democracy and living in

10:41

a dictatorship. The government and the

10:43

state doesn't own the data in

10:46

us. We get to possess our

10:48

own information. And so they got

10:51

to turning over now. Doge doesn't

10:53

seem to have an apparatus for

10:55

doing that, but here's the thing.

10:58

And Elon Musk is going to

11:00

have to learn this quickly. Taking

11:03

governmental office in power involves not

11:05

just benefits of being able to

11:07

control the action, but burdens too,

11:10

their responsibilities that go along with

11:12

that. So pretending to be a

11:15

government leader means you've got to

11:17

live up to the law. And

11:19

so I sent in my... privacy

11:22

act FOIA request yesterday. I'm hoping

11:24

to hear back shortly, but I

11:27

don't have any right that 340

11:29

million other Americans don't have. I

11:31

mean, I don't know that, you

11:34

know, the proud boys and oath

11:36

keepers are necessarily going to be

11:39

sending in their requests and other

11:41

people who support the billionaire cabinet,

11:43

but everywhere I go, people are

11:46

asking. What's the story with our

11:48

data? Is it safe there? And

11:51

so we deserve an accounting. And

11:53

so do you have confidence? that

11:55

the information that we do get

11:58

back from Doge, if we get

12:00

information back from Doge, I know

12:03

that you mentioned that there's no

12:05

apparatus to do that right now,

12:07

but presumably if they want to

12:10

remain in compliance with the law,

12:12

they'll have to figure that out,

12:15

that the information we do get

12:17

back from Doge is going to

12:19

be accurate. If they say, for

12:22

example, that that's trustworthy. It's a

12:24

very serious thing for them to

12:27

misrepresent the status of the data

12:29

that we've got. But look, I'm

12:31

going into it with good faith

12:34

and with the hope that they

12:36

are going to comply with the

12:39

law promptly as they must under

12:41

FOIA. It's generally a 30-day period

12:43

that they got, depending on what...

12:46

what it is you're looking for,

12:48

they've got to get back to

12:50

us and that is a for

12:53

real obligation on their part and

12:55

there are opportunities for people to

12:58

bring a legal action to compel

13:00

production of the information if they

13:02

don't produce it and there are

13:05

attorney's fees and other kinds of

13:07

financial penalties that go along with

13:10

the government not complying with this

13:12

critical law. for government accountability. To

13:14

that point, and you had alluded

13:17

to this before, the fact that

13:19

Elon is really there to bolster

13:22

his private businesses, what did you

13:24

make of the fact that as

13:26

of this recording, we're recording this

13:29

on Wednesday, on Tuesday, Trump spent

13:31

the day, not focused on... abiding

13:34

by his promise to the American

13:36

people during the campaign, not focused

13:38

on lowering costs for Americans for

13:41

rent or housing or groceries or

13:43

eggs, but instead basically doing an

13:46

infomercial on the White House lawn

13:48

for Elon's private company, Tesla. Well,

13:50

here's the thing that really... freaked

13:53

me out about that. You know,

13:55

back if you can remember to

13:58

the days before Donald Trump, no

14:00

president ever would have had a

14:02

commercial extravaganza auto showroom on the

14:05

front lawn of the White House.

14:07

Everybody would understand that that violates

14:10

all the rules of ethics and

14:12

the basic precept also codified into

14:14

law that you can't use. public

14:17

property like that for the purposes

14:19

of private money making. And yet

14:22

we're dealing with such massive structural

14:24

corruption and lawlessness that people even

14:26

barely remarked upon the oddity of

14:29

having this infomercial take place on

14:31

the front lot of the waitouts.

14:34

But you can view it as

14:36

at least emblematic. of the far

14:38

deeper structural corruption that's going on.

14:41

And of course, that's the essential

14:43

relationship between Elon Musk and Donald

14:46

Trump. Elon Musk has put hundreds

14:48

of millions of dollars into Trump's

14:50

political election campaign in 2024. Trump

14:53

has given him basically carte blanche

14:55

over the federal government over access

14:58

to our information over the computer

15:00

systems. and to put him in

15:02

a position to be looking at

15:05

all of the information related to

15:07

his own government contracts related to

15:10

other countries is a very dangerous

15:12

situation and it gets even more

15:14

serious when you look at what

15:17

Elon Musk and his compatriots like

15:19

Peter Thiel and Curtis Yard and

15:21

believe in. I mean, these are

15:24

people who believe that democracy is

15:26

defunct. They believe we live in

15:29

a post-constitutional world. They don't believe

15:31

in our constitution and they envision

15:33

the rock. of an autocratic techno

15:36

state where the people who are

15:38

the CEOs of the major corporations

15:41

will choose the CEO of the

15:43

government. Curtis Yarvin told the New

15:45

York Times about a month ago

15:48

that the American people have to

15:50

get over their fear of dictatorship

15:53

and dictators. He said that the

15:55

CEOs of the major corporations are

15:57

just dictators and we need a

16:00

dictator to make the government work

16:02

for them. and that's their vision

16:05

of where we're going. And by

16:07

the way, the reason why they

16:09

want to pull the plug on

16:12

Ukraine and give all power to

16:14

Vladimir Putin to take over Europe

16:17

if that's what he wants, and

16:19

she and China, and of course,

16:21

Elon Musk is deeply implicated with

16:24

the Chinese government and half of

16:26

all of his business investments are

16:29

in China, is because they also

16:31

view an autocratic new state. arising

16:33

in North America. That's why they

16:36

keep talking about Canada and Greenland

16:38

and Panama. They want a fundamental

16:41

regime change. They don't believe in

16:43

the United States of America and

16:45

our Constitution as the rest of

16:48

his conceivable bit. Well, you know,

16:50

there are going to be people

16:53

who say, who kind of cast

16:55

off the idea that Donald Trump

16:57

is being serious about his efforts

17:00

to... Anex Canada is the 51st

17:02

date. There are going to be

17:05

people who cast off what he

17:07

says as just this like, you

17:09

know, errant synapses fire in Trump's

17:12

brain and so he acts on

17:14

them until something else garners his

17:17

attention and really he's just trying

17:19

to own the new cycle. What

17:21

do you say about this? Because

17:24

this is a situation where now

17:26

the rubbers met the road and

17:29

we have tariffs that have been

17:31

imposed. We have a trade war

17:33

that's broken out. We have a

17:36

stock market that is collapsing and

17:38

entered correction territory territory. economy that's

17:41

right now on the verge of

17:43

recession and he still is parroting

17:45

not just from the campaign trail

17:48

but from the White House briefing

17:50

room and from his interviews this

17:53

that the only way to alleviate

17:55

any of this is to move

17:57

forward with this insane lunatic idea

18:00

that Canada has to become, that

18:02

has to relinquish its sovereignty and

18:04

become the 51 state. And so

18:07

what do you make of this?

18:09

Because again, there will be these

18:12

competing factions of folks who say

18:14

like, this is just something Trump

18:16

says, versus the fact that like,

18:19

we are seeing market value. erased

18:21

by the trillions in the market

18:24

right now, and the only steadfast

18:26

principle that he's holding on to

18:28

is this idea that he wants

18:31

to annex Canada. Well, I'm sure

18:33

it makes Vladimir Putin very happy

18:36

because all of these completely bizarre

18:38

overtures towards Canada and threats against

18:40

Canada, one of our greatest allies

18:43

in the world that have been

18:45

with us, you know, every step

18:48

of the way through... World War

18:50

II and everything else, all of

18:52

that ends up justifying either deliberately

18:55

or inadvertently, I would tend to

18:57

think deliberately, but either way it

19:00

ends up justifying Putin's moves against

19:02

Ukraine and his bloodthirsty imperialist invasion

19:04

of Ukraine and his contention that

19:07

Ukraine does not exist as an

19:09

independent sovereign country and his attempts

19:12

to take it over. This is

19:14

a basically imperialist notion and it's

19:16

a rejection of everything that we

19:19

fought for in World War II.

19:21

When we got out of World

19:24

War II, the whole world settled

19:26

on the proposition that nations could

19:28

not invade other nations and that

19:31

people of sovereignty in their own

19:33

countries. we needed to organize ourselves

19:36

around the principles of international law

19:38

and human rights. And they have

19:40

thrown all of that into a

19:43

complete quagmire. by validating the Russian

19:45

invasion of Ukraine by inviting China

19:48

to regard Hong Kong and Taiwan

19:50

and Tibet as their property. And

19:52

now by having United States of

19:55

America make these hostile takeover maneuvers

19:57

towards Canada and Greenland and Panama.

20:00

I mean, again, it's been quasi

20:02

normalized. But 10 years ago. People

20:04

would have thought you were absolutely

20:07

a raving lunatic if you said

20:09

that the United States was going

20:12

to try to take over Canada

20:14

and turn it into a state.

20:16

Yeah, I still think we have

20:19

plenty of people in this country

20:21

who think you're a raving lunatic

20:24

if you're saying that we should

20:26

take over Canada from the United

20:28

States. I should say, however, that

20:31

if Canada... were to choose to

20:33

do that, we would probably add

20:35

around 40 progressive Democrats to the

20:38

House and two progressive senators. It

20:40

would do a lot for us.

20:43

I don't know what it would

20:45

do for them. Yeah. I first

20:47

of all yeah it's it's like

20:50

it's shoving them into a family

20:52

that they probably the crazy family

20:55

but but yeah I mean this

20:57

is this is a country that

20:59

has become accustomed to universal health

21:02

care gun control and environmental protection

21:04

so I'm not exactly sure the

21:07

political benefit for for the Republicans

21:09

but but you know look if

21:11

Canada wants to take one for

21:14

the team we're happy to have

21:16

you. Finally Congressman let's finish off

21:19

with this we have some pretty

21:21

cataclysmic news on the economic front,

21:23

and that is for the very

21:26

first time in CNN's polling history,

21:28

even including his first term, Donald

21:31

Trump is now underwater on the

21:33

economy. So for the first time

21:35

ever, not just a majority of

21:38

Americans, but 56% of Americans disapprove

21:40

of Trump's handling of the economy.

21:43

That's 56 to 44. The closest

21:45

he ever was to those numbers

21:47

was back in 2017, December of

21:50

2017. He got to 49. So

21:52

this is a pretty massive swing

21:55

obviously in response to the war

21:57

he's waged on our own economy

21:59

by virtue of these tariffs and

22:02

the trade war and watching the

22:04

stock market crumble. So can I

22:07

have your response to this swing

22:09

among the majority of Americans with

22:11

regard to how Trump is handling

22:14

the economy? Well, one month before

22:16

the election in October of 2024,

22:19

the Economist magazine had a cover

22:21

story. called the envy of the

22:23

world, the American economy, the roaring

22:26

American economy, and Joe Biden gave

22:28

us an economy that for, you

22:31

know, more than 40 straight months

22:33

was 4% or less unemployment. The

22:35

manufacturing sector came roaring back. the

22:38

record stock market, everything, you name

22:40

it. The envy of the world,

22:43

said the economist magazine, and now

22:45

Donald Trump is in the process

22:47

of crashing it, and everybody can

22:50

see it. He picked out one

22:52

thing where he thought Joe Biden

22:55

was weak, which was inflation. He

22:57

hammered it over and over again,

22:59

talked about the price of eggs.

23:02

Now the price of eggs is

23:04

the highest it's ever been in

23:06

American history, and the price of

23:09

eggs Benedict is even much higher

23:11

than that, because he's betraying every

23:14

value we've got. in our society

23:16

and our government. So I think

23:18

it was always fraudulent that Donald

23:21

Trump was some kind of great

23:23

businessman or great economist, but they

23:26

did a hell of a sell

23:28

job on that and all of

23:30

it is PR, but it's a

23:33

house of cards that's come crashing

23:35

down and everybody understands that there's

23:38

nothing there now. And this is

23:40

just within the first two months

23:42

of his administration. We had to

23:45

get through four years of this.

23:47

He has turned our closest. allies

23:50

in the world into enemies. He's

23:52

turned our worst enemies in the

23:54

world into his personal friends and

23:57

bosom buddies. He's crashed the stock

23:59

market. He has... fired tens of

24:02

thousands of people from essential jobs

24:04

like air traffic controller

24:06

and food and drug

24:09

and safety inspectors, forest

24:11

service firefighters. He's undermining

24:14

the government that we need to

24:16

keep it all together. So all

24:19

I can say is if Vladimir

24:21

Putin himself had invaded

24:23

America and come up with a

24:26

plan to try to destroy our

24:28

economy and wreck the cohesion of

24:30

our society, he could not have done

24:32

better than Donald Trump has done on

24:35

his own with the help of Elon

24:37

Musk. Perfectly put. We'll leave it there.

24:39

Congressman, thank you as always for the

24:41

work that you're doing and for taking

24:43

the time today. Thank you, Brian. Hang tough,

24:45

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26:30

There's a guy named Norm Eisen.

26:32

I don't even know what he

26:35

looks like. His name is Norm

26:37

Eisen of crew. He's been after

26:39

me for nine years. I'm joined

26:42

now by Norm Eisen. Norm, that

26:44

clip right there that we just

26:46

watched was Donald Trump name-checking you

26:49

during a speech that of course

26:51

was watched by the entire nation

26:53

to say nothing of the fact

26:56

that it was delivered in front

26:58

of the Department of Justice. Can

27:00

I have your reaction first and

27:03

foremost to Donald Trump dragging your

27:05

name into this speech? fact that

27:07

the president lashed out in that

27:10

way as an acknowledgement that he

27:12

doesn't like losing in court. Myself

27:14

and my colleagues at the State

27:17

Democracy Defenders Fund have been winning

27:19

a lot in stopping his unconstitutional

27:21

and illegal conduct. Whenever we have

27:24

a truly big win, It stimulates

27:26

this kind of lash out from

27:28

the president. It happened when I

27:31

secured a court order protecting 6,000

27:33

people who are associated with the

27:35

Department of Justice FBI agents that

27:38

he was targeting simply for doing

27:40

their job. We protected them from

27:42

Donald Trump's targeting of them. And

27:45

then this week. Of course, you

27:47

and I talked about it all

27:49

week long. We had our big

27:52

success with our partners or wonderful

27:54

colleagues and clients in a San

27:56

Francisco federal courtroom where we protected

27:59

10 of thousands of wrongly fired

28:01

government employees from a legal firing

28:03

got an order reinstating them declaring

28:06

that there of course there was

28:08

no basis to fire them. So

28:10

if Donald Trump thinks that these

28:13

kinds of attacks are going to

28:15

slow me down or stop me.

28:17

He's got another thing coming. On

28:20

the contrary, it's a backhanded compliment

28:22

that is only going to spur

28:24

me and my colleagues at the

28:27

State Democracy Defenders Fund and all

28:29

of the people we work with

28:31

to go even harder to defend

28:34

the Constitution. to defend the laws

28:36

of the country and to push

28:38

back on Donald Trump who's violating

28:41

those standards every day and making

28:43

us all more dangerous we're going

28:45

to continue working for the American

28:48

people. Well Norm I can say

28:50

first and foremost on behalf of

28:52

literally everybody who's watching this right

28:55

now that that is the exact

28:57

degree of fight that we have

28:59

been so desperate for on the

29:02

left so thank you you know

29:04

on behalf of everybody watching not

29:06

just for what you're doing in

29:09

the courts but also for doing

29:11

it with with this with this

29:13

mentality of of like you know

29:16

eye on the ball let's keep

29:18

going forward forget what Trump says

29:21

to try to offer some type

29:23

of a chilling effect we have

29:25

a job to do let's do

29:28

it. I am curious in the

29:30

aftermath of the person with the

29:32

biggest megaphone on the face of

29:35

the earth offering up your name

29:37

specifically during a speech, what's the

29:39

immediate aftermath of that look like

29:42

for you personally? Brian, it's so

29:44

emblematic of this this moment in

29:46

our democracy these past couple months

29:49

since Donald Trump. Trump took power

29:51

because yes, there are threats that

29:53

come in, hassles, harassment, social media

29:56

and otherwise. But for every one

29:58

of those, there's two or more

30:00

people who are providing support and

30:03

love and encouragement and go get

30:05

them. And so it makes me

30:07

think of this period since January

30:10

20th, where we've been in court.

30:12

almost every day. We filed or

30:14

worked on dozens of cases, literally

30:17

helped tens of thousands of people.

30:19

Every time Donald Trump thinks he's

30:21

going to flood the zone with

30:24

his legal conduct, we and the

30:26

other great lawyers and organizations that

30:28

do this work are meeting flood

30:31

the zone with rule of law,

30:33

shock and awe, two for one.

30:35

And he's losing again and again

30:38

in court because his behavior. is

30:40

so illegal it does violate the

30:42

constitutional laws. So, you know, there

30:45

is a silver lining to these

30:47

dark times and I believe that

30:49

the public opposition is growing, the

30:52

courts are pushing back on him

30:54

and the ultimate safeguard is the

30:56

American people and they now see

30:59

what he's doing and they're not

31:01

happy about it and if the

31:03

past hour or so is any

31:06

judge. They're very supportive of those

31:08

who are defending the rule of

31:10

law because I've gotten a lot

31:13

of out of voice. And you've

31:15

got you've got one more here.

31:17

So I just want to make

31:20

that clear. You know, I know

31:22

that what Trump relies on. mostly

31:24

is the fact that when he

31:27

issues his edicts, when he sends

31:29

down his clarion call and mobilizes

31:31

his army of followers, that the

31:34

goal for him is really to

31:36

have a chilling effect on folks

31:38

not to push back against him.

31:41

You've made it abundantly clear what

31:43

your goal is in pushing back

31:45

and not being discharged. by any

31:48

of his tactics here, including name-checking

31:50

you during his speech. But what's

31:52

your message more broadly to folks

31:55

who are inevitably going to get

31:57

caught up in his web, who

31:59

are going to get named checked

32:02

by him, and that includes prosecutors,

32:04

that includes judges, it includes lawyers,

32:06

it includes lawyers, anybody who he

32:09

perceives as a threat to his

32:11

unchecked power? What do you say

32:13

to those people? I have your

32:16

back and so do the thousands

32:18

of wonderful attorneys, organizations. plaintiffs, clients,

32:20

supporters, members of your and my

32:23

social media communities. We've got you

32:25

and we're not, we are strong

32:27

if we are together. That's part

32:30

of the reason Brian called me

32:32

right away. His first question was,

32:34

are you okay? I said, yes,

32:37

I'm more motivated than ever. Second

32:39

question was, will you come on

32:42

the show? We're doing this together

32:44

and so they should know that

32:46

they will not be alone when

32:49

the spotlight turns to them. And

32:51

I think if we if we

32:53

stand together, we are stronger than

32:56

the bully in chief, who's by

32:58

the way, poll numbers are plummeting.

33:00

They are now deeply underwater and

33:03

sinking fast. Norm, I think one

33:05

instance to your exact point, and

33:07

you alluded to this before. as

33:10

to why Trump is so upset

33:12

to the point where he needed

33:14

to name check you is because

33:17

you won a huge case just

33:19

a few days ago that really

33:21

pushes back on one of his

33:24

biggest hopes, which was to be

33:26

able to fire en masse all

33:28

of these probationary employees. So can

33:31

you speak about that, about that

33:33

big court win just a few

33:35

days back? government employees, federal government

33:38

employees. Brian, they're the ones who

33:40

keep our nuclear materials safe at

33:42

the Department of Energy, keep the

33:45

planes in the air, at the

33:47

FAA, deal with bird flu at

33:49

the USDA. There are people who

33:52

are helping us all. They answer

33:54

the phone when we pick up

33:56

to call with the Social Security

33:59

question, they fight our fires. He

34:01

fired them all. Tens of thousands

34:03

of people across the government. call

34:06

probationary employees these are people who

34:08

are in their first year of

34:10

employment first or second year or

34:13

who have just been promoted and

34:15

are new right so to that

34:17

point just as a quick aside

34:20

these are people who are promoted

34:22

to a new position so it's

34:24

not even to a new position

34:27

so it's not even that those

34:29

which is to say nothing of

34:31

the fact that just because you're

34:34

in your first or second year

34:36

of government does not mean that

34:38

you're unqualified it's both it but

34:41

but just having these people who

34:43

were promoted successful enough to have

34:45

earned a promotion. And this is

34:48

what keeps our government alive because

34:50

there's the ones who are promoted

34:52

and there's also the new employees.

34:55

These are the next generation helping

34:57

us all. But we've seen Donald

34:59

Trump's wrecking balls swing across the

35:02

government. Brian. The planes are supposed

35:04

to be staying up and bird

35:06

flu is supposed to be coming

35:09

down not the opposite, okay? And

35:11

Donald Trump and it's very unpopular

35:13

with the American people. They can

35:16

see that you know, it's taking

35:18

Trump Musk and Doge. They're taking

35:20

a chainsaw to the government willy-nilly.

35:23

So we went to court to

35:25

protect these people who help all

35:27

Americans, keep all Americans safe. Tens

35:30

of probationary employees and on Thursday

35:32

in a federal courtroom in San

35:34

Francisco. The judge ruled that the

35:37

firings were illegal at major agencies

35:39

across the government that they must

35:41

stop and that those who have

35:44

been fired need to be reinstated.

35:46

No wonder Donald Trump was angry.

35:48

And that wasn't the only one

35:51

we've had just the day before

35:53

that. He fired the head. Another

35:56

thing he's doing is going after

35:58

the labor movement. He fired the

36:00

head of the FLRA, the Federal

36:03

Labor Relations Authority. Again, totally illegal.

36:05

No basis for it. Unconstitutionally claimed

36:07

he has the absolute power. Well,

36:10

he's not a king. And we

36:12

won that case. We got an

36:14

order saying, no, she has to

36:17

be reinstated. And, you know, we've

36:19

been in court with him constantly.

36:21

We've been winning. We in the

36:24

coalitions, some big coalition, wonderful groups

36:26

who've been doing this, labor movement,

36:28

And so Donald Trump doesn't like

36:31

that. He's targeting me. You know

36:33

what? It's the finest backhanded compliment

36:35

you could ask for and it's

36:38

only a motivator. And I know

36:40

my colleagues, they've been calling me

36:42

from across the movement offering me

36:45

encouragement and they feel the same

36:47

way that this shows what we're

36:49

doing is working. We're stopping the

36:52

autocracy in its tracks. Norm, a

36:54

lot of what Trump relies on

36:56

as he continues to try and

36:59

gut. all of these career civil

37:01

servants from federal from the federal

37:03

government is that he can recall

37:06

his havoc and then knowing full

37:08

well that even if this stuff

37:10

gets overturned he'll still see a

37:13

certain degree of attrition right some

37:15

of these folks have already gotten

37:17

different jobs some of these folks

37:20

are so disillusion with the process

37:22

that they're probably not going to

37:24

come back and so knowing that

37:27

you're winning these cases is there

37:29

a way for to prevent Trump

37:31

to continue gutting other federal agencies

37:34

in advance of it happening? Or

37:36

do you need it to happen

37:38

before you have standing to bring

37:41

the next lawsuit? You do need

37:43

it to happen, but here's the

37:45

beneficial effect. that we've seen, Brian,

37:48

because he's, you know, there's been

37:50

well over a hundred lawsuits and

37:52

he's, and he's lost again and

37:55

again and again. The net effect

37:57

of it is to puncture his

37:59

bubble of impunity, the impression that

38:02

he can do this stuff, to

38:04

make courts extremely skeptical. It has

38:06

a cumulative effect. And then, you

38:09

know, in my... case on Thursday,

38:11

the judge cut off future illegality.

38:13

So he can't do this same

38:16

thing again and again. You need

38:18

that hook of some actual harm,

38:20

but then you're able to go

38:23

to court and push back on

38:25

it. And that's what we've been

38:27

able to do. And I really,

38:30

I'm one of thousands of people.

38:32

uh... so happened Donald Trump singled

38:34

me out today but really what

38:37

he's doing is saying i'm losing

38:39

in court they're stopping me they're

38:41

frustrating me and i'm upset about

38:44

it but for us it's the

38:46

flip side we're winning and we're

38:48

going to keep going and so

38:51

that has some of that preventative

38:53

effect norm to that point look

38:55

i think it's especially important to

38:58

focus on what you and state

39:00

democracy defenders are actually doing the

39:02

fact that you're putting yourselves out

39:05

there that you were actually joining

39:07

this fight. You're not just talking,

39:09

you're doing. I know that there

39:12

are going to be folks who

39:14

want to help you, who are

39:17

looking for fighters out there, and

39:19

so how can folks who are

39:21

watching right now help your efforts?

39:24

Come to the State Democracy Defenders

39:26

Fund website. There's a... Link you

39:28

can click to contribute, but you

39:31

can also put that link I'm

39:33

going to put that link I'm

39:35

going to put that link right

39:38

here on the screen embedded And

39:40

I'm also going to put it

39:42

in the post description of this

39:45

video So anybody watching you'll have

39:47

no problem finding it Thank you

39:49

Brian and by supporting our work

39:52

Whether you make a financial contribution

39:54

or you just learn about all

39:56

the cases a one unit advance

39:59

is the long list of cases

40:01

that we've brought in one on

40:03

the website. You can be part

40:06

of this peaceful, lawful, but vigorous

40:08

effort to push back on the

40:10

autocracy in our country. And you

40:13

know, the best thing about it

40:15

Brian is. the lawsuits stop Trump,

40:17

but they also give people hope,

40:20

I have found, that there's a

40:22

hunger out in the country, and

40:24

much more, I know you cover

40:27

this, the mainstream media doesn't always,

40:29

the energy out there to object

40:31

to authoritarianism, to work for the

40:34

restoration of our American democracy and

40:36

to make it even better, and

40:38

we're seeing that spontaneous. all over

40:41

the country, 10,000, the thousands of

40:43

people protesting in various ways. God

40:45

bless you for doing that and

40:48

of course for supporting state democracy

40:50

defenders fund and me. Well, Norm,

40:52

again, look, everyone is looking for

40:55

the fighters right now. That is

40:57

going to be what protects this

40:59

democracy from the worst impulses of

41:02

this administration, and you are chief

41:04

among them. So thanks for the

41:06

work you're doing. Again, for everybody

41:09

watching right now, if you want

41:11

to support. Norm and his team,

41:13

check out the link in the

41:16

post-scription of this video for state

41:18

democracy defenders. Norm Eisen, appreciate you

41:20

taking the time. Thanks, as always,

41:23

Brian. I'm

41:26

joined now by the U.S. Senator from

41:28

Arizona Mark Kelly. Thank you so much

41:31

for taking the time. Brian, thank you

41:33

for having me on. So a lot

41:35

to talk about, obviously, the big issue

41:38

right now is the continuing resolution, the

41:40

CR, which will determine whether or not

41:42

the government stays open. But first, just

41:45

wanted to dive into a topic that

41:47

had been circulating between you and Elon

41:49

Musk, and that is that you had

41:52

reiterated your support online for Ukraine, which

41:54

to remind everybody is a functioning democracy

41:56

in their battle against Russia, which is

41:59

not a democracy. And Elon Musk had

42:01

come out and called you a... a

42:03

trader for expressing your support for that

42:06

democracy. Can I have your reaction to

42:08

that? Well, he's not a serious guy.

42:10

I've sort of known him a little

42:13

bit over a decade. I used to,

42:15

you know, do some stuff with SpaceX

42:17

and Crew Safety. And I used to

42:20

take him seriously, especially in his role

42:22

at SpaceX. Yeah. Well, as the CEO

42:24

and the chief engineer. And I don't

42:27

know what happened to him, you know,

42:29

that he suddenly decides it's a good

42:31

idea to spend. a quarter of a

42:33

billion dollars to make sure Donald Trump's

42:36

the next president, for what to what

42:38

end, right? You always got to be

42:40

suspicious of a billionaire who's trying to

42:43

get people elected to office and then

42:45

shows up in the administration as some

42:47

special, I don't know what that means,

42:50

special government employee, and then brings a

42:52

wrecking ball immediately to the federal government,

42:54

ruining people's lives, including the lives of

42:57

veterans. So I go to Ukraine, part

42:59

of my job. We are our own

43:01

branch of government, right? I don't work

43:04

for the President of the United States,

43:06

and I certainly do not work for

43:08

Elon Musk. I work for the people

43:11

of Arizona, and I'm on the Armed

43:13

Services Committee, I'm on the Intelligence Committee.

43:15

My job is to get out there

43:18

in these spots where we've got to

43:20

make some tough decisions in Congress. The

43:22

President, he has his decisions to make.

43:25

I've got my decisions to make. So

43:27

in that role, I'm there. speaking to

43:29

the head of intelligence of the Ukrainian

43:32

military, the people in the Defense Department,

43:34

government leaders, visiting with veterans in a

43:36

military hospital, meeting with F-16 pilots, one

43:38

that I met in Arizona, trying to

43:41

figure out how things are going for

43:43

them, and what do they need from

43:45

the US government? And then I come

43:48

back and I write about my trip,

43:50

and then this guy called me a

43:52

traitor. I'll tell you Brian when I

43:55

was flying combat missions over Iraq in

43:57

1991 I didn't I didn't think there

43:59

was like some Snotty knows teenager in

44:02

South Africa that one day was

44:04

going to call me a traitor. You

44:06

know, so I was kind of shocked.

44:08

But in the regard to like

44:10

the world on Twitter, it's his

44:12

platform. He can call me

44:15

whatever he wants. I don't take

44:17

him very seriously with that,

44:19

with the with the names he's

44:21

going to throw at me. What

44:23

I really care about is the

44:25

stuff he's doing doing. He and

44:28

Donald Trump are doing

44:30

significant damage to our country.

44:32

Well, you know, you had asked

44:34

to what end? And I think that's

44:36

an important question because we have

44:39

seen instances where really the

44:41

The access that he's been

44:43

given has paid off for

44:45

him, literally and figuratively. There

44:47

were a number of investigations

44:49

or regulatory actions or fines

44:51

that had been levied against

44:53

Elon or his companies in

44:55

almost every agency across the

44:57

government, agencies which Elon has

44:59

now taken an act to

45:01

himself. Everything from the NLRB

45:03

to USAID, Consumer Financial Protection

45:05

Bureau, would have had jurisdiction over

45:08

turning Twitter into a payment processing

45:10

platform. of Labor and on and

45:12

on. And so those are gone

45:14

by virtue of either firing the

45:17

inspectors general or being able to

45:19

just take people off of the

45:21

boards, for example. And also we've

45:23

seen how. the federal government has moved

45:26

to give contracts that had previously

45:28

been allocated to other companies like

45:30

Verizon for example over to Elon's

45:33

companies and so I think the the to

45:35

what end question answered itself quicker than I

45:37

than I thought even we had anticipated

45:39

when he came into government only to

45:41

watch a few weeks later him really

45:43

derived these these major benefits for himself

45:45

and his finances yeah he's benefiting

45:48

clearly and they're doing this in

45:50

public they're not trying to hide it so

45:52

I think at this point we've got to really

45:54

push back and stand up for the

45:56

American people. Who's going to benefit

45:58

from Elon's policies? Elon. Yeah. He's

46:01

trying to create, he's firing all

46:03

these people. Part of it is

46:05

what you say, Brian, right? He's

46:07

got regulatory agencies that regulate his

46:10

businesses, whether it's SpaceX or Tesla.

46:12

He gets rid of those folks.

46:14

It makes those businesses easier to

46:16

operate, maybe financially more successful, but

46:18

at the expense of the American

46:21

people, might be environmental, it might

46:23

be safety. If you can get

46:25

your you to rocket approved the

46:27

plan to launch there might be

46:30

some safety problems that come with that

46:32

if you if you if you try

46:34

to speed it up without the correct

46:36

reviews and in some cases you know

46:38

I think we need to have

46:41

regulatory reform but it can't

46:43

be one guy just firing the

46:45

people who are regulating his businesses

46:47

right there's that side of it

46:49

the other side is getting rid

46:51

of a lot of employees, they're trying

46:54

to create some room in the budget

46:56

so they can pass this big giant

46:58

tax cut for rich people. That's

47:00

part of the reason, but what he can

47:02

do is not gonna be enough. So then

47:04

what they're gonna do, it's common,

47:06

they're gonna cut health care for

47:08

poor people and seniors, either through

47:10

Medicaid or Medicare. That is on

47:13

the horizon. That's the next thing that's

47:15

gonna be talked about here, when they

47:17

get to what's called, and I hate

47:19

to use the term. We use here in

47:21

Congress, but budget reconciliation in the

47:23

Senate. Is there a vehicle to

47:25

do that? So I want to dig into that

47:27

a little bit, because now we're getting

47:30

into the budget stuff. Right now, there

47:32

is a CR, a continuing resolution on

47:34

the table that would determine whether or

47:36

not the government either stays open or

47:38

shuts down. And so you've come out

47:40

and opted to vote against the continuing

47:43

resolution. Why did you decide to do

47:45

that? Well, Brian, this thing's a shit

47:47

sandwich. I mean, it really

47:49

is. It gives this president.

47:51

and Elon Musk more power

47:53

to continue to wreck these

47:56

government agencies and hurt people.

47:58

He is ruining people's

48:00

lives. I had veterans in my

48:02

office about a week and a

48:04

half ago that had recently received

48:06

glowing performance reports. Yeah. Then this

48:08

guy, Elon Musk, fires them for

48:11

poor performance. Like three weeks later,

48:13

they lose their jobs. One of

48:15

these guys was working in the

48:17

government agency, was 100% disabled veteran,

48:19

and now he's going to start

48:21

a minimum wage job in a

48:23

kitchen. He's got three kids. Yeah.

48:25

This is like, this is like

48:27

hitting this guy in the head

48:29

with a sledgehammer. It has ruined

48:31

his life. And there's no reason

48:33

for it. Elon thinks he's a

48:35

smart guy. He's he's pretty good

48:38

at some things. He's a pretty

48:40

good physicist, you know, rocket designer.

48:42

He's done a pretty good job.

48:44

He makes an okay car. By

48:46

the way, I just got rid

48:48

of mine today. I thought about

48:50

driving it into the Potomac on

48:52

fire. I didn't either of those.

48:54

But he's not he's not good

48:56

at this. And I hope he

48:58

realizes it pretty soon that this

49:00

is damaging the US economy. It's

49:02

hurting real people. It's also hurting

49:04

him in some ways. By the

49:07

way, if you see the stock

49:09

price of. you know, Tesla. Yeah,

49:11

down 40, between 46 and 48%

49:13

in the last three months. Not

49:15

exactly, not exactly a huge way.

49:17

Although it's also hurting is, it's

49:19

also hurting his brand and his

49:21

reputation. Yeah. I don't know if

49:23

he cares about that, but he

49:25

should. You know, your position is

49:27

the one that shared by. everybody

49:29

in the house and the vast

49:31

majority of your colleagues in the

49:33

Senate and yet as of this

49:36

recording there are three senators Chuck

49:38

Schumer Senator Cortez Masto and Senator

49:40

Federman who have come out in

49:42

favor of this continuing resolution to

49:44

keep the government open kind of

49:46

in deference to the plan that

49:48

Republicans want and so where do

49:50

you why is there a disconnect

49:52

here and and why wasn't there

49:54

a line drawn sooner that basically

49:56

said that if the government is

49:58

going to stay open, then we

50:00

need to extract concessions from Republicans.

50:03

That didn't happen. And so really,

50:05

this is Republicans putting, being able

50:07

to dictate what they want to

50:09

happen without any buy-in from a

50:11

party that they need buy-in from.

50:13

They need seven votes from Democrats.

50:15

Yeah, well, it's a tough call.

50:17

Either decision, you can make a

50:19

case for either one. Ultimately for

50:21

me. It really came down to

50:23

we got to stand up to

50:25

Donald Trump. And by the way,

50:27

Republicans did not negotiate with us

50:29

in good faith. So yeah, maybe

50:32

you can make an argument. We

50:34

should have been harder on them

50:36

earlier. But they did this. They

50:38

decided to go it alone on

50:40

this. It was the our way

50:42

or the highway approach to keeping

50:44

the government open. And that's not

50:46

the way this is usually done.

50:48

It's not the way it was

50:50

done previously. you know, under Chuck

50:52

Schumer or Mitch McConnell in the

50:54

Senate or other members of the

50:56

House on either side. It's usually

50:59

Democrats and Republicans working together. That

51:01

is not this. Having said that,

51:03

you know, I made my decision

51:05

based on all the information I

51:07

have. Yeah. And those other folks

51:09

did the same thing. And so

51:11

what's your message to folks in

51:13

the broader Democratic base who are

51:15

seeing the kind of the disarray,

51:17

not to use the Dems and

51:19

disarray term, but the disarray that

51:21

we're engaged in right now as

51:23

we try to figure out a

51:25

path forward and are, you know,

51:28

upset about the fact that there

51:30

isn't unanimity within the Democratic caucus

51:32

and the Senate right now in

51:34

a moment where I think what

51:36

a lot of people are looking

51:38

for is a sense of fight.

51:40

Yeah, well, we're all fighting in

51:42

one way or the other, right?

51:44

And it might look like we're

51:46

in disarray, like the Democrats are

51:48

in disarray, but democracy is messy.

51:50

And this is unprecedented, what these

51:52

guys are doing to. our democracy

51:55

and our federal government. Donald Trump,

51:57

as we all know, the Republicans

51:59

even know this. He is a

52:01

very unique figure, whether you like

52:03

him or you hate him, he

52:05

is rather stands out as an

52:07

individual in the world we live

52:09

in as when you consider the

52:11

president's over the last 100 years,

52:13

right? Yeah. He's doing significant damage.

52:15

And what I would tell people

52:17

is it's not going to be

52:19

like this forever. And if we

52:21

fight back, we can win elections.

52:24

And we have to. We've got

52:26

to push back against this president

52:28

who has taken unprecedented steps that

52:30

is really hurting the American people.

52:32

It's hurting the economy. I mean,

52:34

his tariff policy is insane. And

52:36

what I think is really crazy

52:38

is he's able to get members

52:40

of his cabinet and members of

52:42

the Republican Party in Congress to

52:44

parrot these ridiculous talking points about

52:46

tariffs. I don't know when these

52:48

guys are going to get off

52:50

the sideline and say, and look,

52:53

just look at the, look at

52:55

the market. The markets basically tell

52:57

the truth about things. If you

52:59

want the truth meter, watch what

53:01

the markets do. And I'm usually

53:03

not in favor of pointing at

53:05

the stock market and saying whether

53:07

a president's successful or not. But

53:09

in this case, when you see

53:11

him announcing tariffs and then flip

53:13

him back and forth. kind of

53:15

randomly between one amount and another

53:17

and I'm going after this country

53:20

now and this thing and I'm

53:22

going to tear off champagne. So

53:24

our champagne industry in the United

53:26

States, which does not exist by

53:28

the way, it's going to be

53:30

more successful. Yeah. Right. I mean

53:32

when he's doing this crazy stuff

53:34

and then you see how the

53:36

stock market reacts, it's because of

53:38

him. And that's the truth meter

53:40

in this chaotic dynamic time period

53:42

with this kind of president. And

53:44

I think what's especially ironic in

53:46

all of that to put a

53:49

fine point on your point is

53:51

that the same people who just

53:53

a few months back, we're claiming

53:55

that we were in the throes

53:57

of one of the worst economies

53:59

in modern American history, are now

54:01

seeing a stock market and an

54:03

economy that is aggressively worse than

54:05

where we were by a market

54:07

degree. And yet they're claiming that

54:09

this is an economy that's fundamentally

54:11

strong, even though, again, we're in

54:13

correction territory and we're seeing an

54:16

overall economic downturn across the entire

54:18

economy right now. And Donald Trump,

54:20

and then he says, well, the

54:22

boom is coming. Yeah, the boom

54:24

is coming. Well, it's not coming.

54:26

Not if the not if the

54:28

policy stay the same. I think

54:30

Goldman Sachs just put out a

54:32

thing that somebody told me I

54:34

haven't I've checked it yet, but

54:36

like a 1% tariff turns into

54:38

like a 0.1% decrease in GDP.

54:40

Yeah, and he's talking about 200%

54:42

tariffs right now. Yes, exactly. When

54:45

you talk about those numbers, those

54:47

are big numbers. And it's it's

54:49

going to hurt. going to hurt

54:51

people that are buying stuff and

54:53

it's going to hurt workers people

54:55

who lose their jobs over the

54:57

economy contract we could wind we

54:59

could wind up in a recession

55:01

could be a significant one and

55:03

if he keeps it up if

55:05

he keeps doubled doubling down on

55:07

stupid it'll just continue to get

55:09

worse perfectly put we'll leave it

55:12

there Senator Kelly thank you so

55:14

much for taking the time today

55:16

all right Brian thank you appreciate

55:18

it Thanks again to Jamie Raskin,

55:20

Norm Eisen, and Mark Kelly. That's

55:22

it for this episode. Talk to

55:24

you next week. You've been listening

55:26

to No Lie with Brian Tyler

55:28

Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, Music

55:30

by Wellsey, and Interviews edited for

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