0:00

Hey,

0:00

everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Fish.

0:03

Before we get going, I just wanna let you

0:05

know that we have a very exciting guest on

0:07

this week. And he unfortunately was

0:09

away and is actually furious he was away

0:11

because he missed out on the absolute tornado

0:13

of comedy that is Re Starvey.

0:16

You probably know Reese for his roles as Murray

0:18

the manager on flight of the Concorde's or

0:21

as Nigel Billings Lee from the Jumanji

0:23

movies or perhaps you listen to his absolutely

0:26

brilliant podcast about the mysteries of

0:28

the universe called The Crypto Factor,

0:30

which he hosts with his buddies buttons

0:32

and a doofus called Dan. But what

0:34

you may not have seen if you live in the UK

0:37

is Reese playing his greatest role yet.

0:39

Steve Bonnet, Gentlemen Pirate,

0:41

In the sitcom Rflag means death.

0:44

This is such a great series. It came out last

0:46

year on HBO Max, but it's only just

0:48

come to the UK on BBC two,

0:50

and it's all about the real life story

0:53

of Steve Bonnet who decided to give

0:55

up his entire life and become

0:57

a gentleman pirate of the seas. He put

0:59

friends, black beard, who's played by

1:01

the absolute genius comedy director,

1:04

Tiger YTT, and you can watch

1:06

it now in the UK on BBC two

1:08

every Wednesday at ten PM or

1:10

If you're impatient like me, just head

1:12

straight to BBC iplayer and you can

1:14

watch the entire series in one

1:16

binge go. Anyway, it

1:18

was so great having Reese back on the show. You

1:21

can find the previous episode in the fish archives

1:23

if you wanna hear his first time here with

1:25

us. And he wasn't on that show either.

1:27

Poor guy can't get a break. But we hope you enjoy

1:29

it and then make sure to watch our flag means death

1:31

immediately afterwards. Okay? On

1:34

with the show.

1:50

Hello, and welcome to another

1:52

episode of no such thing as a fish,

1:54

a weekly podcast this week coming

1:57

to you from four miss serious locations

1:59

around the globe. My name is Dan Schreiber.

2:02

I am sitting here with James Harkin,

2:04

Anna Tashinsky, And joining us once

2:06

again, it is the return of our very special guest,

2:08

Reese Dorby. And once again, we

2:10

have gathered around the microphones with our four

2:13

favorite facts from the last seven days And

2:15

in no particular

2:15

order, here we go.

2:18

Starting with fact number one and that

2:20

is Reese. My fact

2:22

is that pirate Steed

2:24

Bonnet invented the idea

2:26

of walking the plank. Oh.

2:32

That's that's a pretty big invention,

2:35

I would say, in in the world of ironing.

2:38

I don't use it in my day to day life.

2:40

It's niche. Let's put it together

2:42

two things that already exist walking and planks.

2:44

It's not like it doesn't come up with anything new

2:46

there, has he? I know. But if you're even a

2:48

child and you dress up as a pirate. One

2:50

of the first things you learn in your entire

2:52

life is that they walk the

2:53

plank. I mean, he is he's what

2:56

a leg see. That's right. Is it true

2:58

though? Let's

3:00

put it this way. It's more of a myth, really,

3:02

that it's where he can after that.

3:05

That's fine. That's what we're dealing. It's

3:07

a damn fact, you know.

3:09

Yeah. Nice. You know the show?

3:11

You know the show.

3:12

So Well, he might have done. Right?

3:14

He might have done. Some people say that he did.

3:17

I actually believe he did

3:19

because even though it's out there

3:21

is a myth, I've been leave knowing Steed

3:23

as I do, playing the role

3:25

of Steed for two seasons now,

3:28

that he would have come up with

3:30

it in in reality because the whole

3:32

idea behind walking the plank is

3:35

they blindfold the

3:38

person, and they make them walk And

3:40

so then they get away with being

3:42

accused of murder. Because that person

3:44

has killed themselves. The

3:46

cap and has said, alright, walk along that

3:48

plank. Will you? No. I'll bet. And

3:51

and the guy's like, what hey.

3:53

What's happening? Hey. Look. Walk along here. We'll we'll

3:55

we'll, you know, you can imagine. It as I'm I'm describing

3:57

it here. Oh, I've got a blindfold

3:59

on. What what what's where's this plank going? You

4:01

know? And then Come

4:05

on. Come on. Come on. That's the shot.

4:09

Very good. Yeah. So so he wouldn't wanna stop

4:11

someone or shoot someone. No. He wants to

4:13

do it he wants to be slightly away

4:15

from the

4:15

action, right, and say you

4:17

did it yourself? Absolutely. Very

4:19

uncomfortable with the idea of of killing

4:21

someone. Why are you hitting yourself. Why are

4:23

you pushing yourself? Why are you letting

4:25

yourself get eaten by sharks?

4:27

Exactly. That's it. It's not getting you

4:30

into heaven. I was uncomfortable with killing

4:32

people. So I just let them kill themselves.

4:34

He's still he's walking a fine

4:36

line, isn't he? He's walking a fine

4:38

plank for sure. But I think yeah.

4:40

I think that's the point. That's the a moral

4:43

issue. And so he can think to

4:45

himself, oh, I didn't kill him. He killed

4:47

himself. He he walked off that plank that I design,

4:49

and it's quite a ingenious idea really

4:51

to think that issue back in those

4:53

days, you could make someone kill

4:55

themselves without you having to actually

4:57

get your hands dirty. Yeah. Which was

4:59

we should say like, seven gold age of

5:01

piracy. Seventeen eighteen, was it he

5:03

died? Yes. Mhmm. I think

5:05

So seventeen hundred seventeen to seventeen

5:07

thirty was the gold

5:08

age. He was right in the middle of it. Wasn't he

5:10

very sure lived really as a pirate?

5:12

For a pirate who is quite famous, it was

5:14

quite a brief career

5:15

was -- Two years. -- at least it

5:18

was like a year and a half. I think we should just

5:20

quickly pricey this guy in his entirety.

5:22

This was someone who was really well-to-do

5:25

character. He was living very rich. He had a

5:27

wife. He had some kids. And then

5:29

he just decided as part of ultimately

5:31

what was, I guess, a mid life crisis or he

5:33

was dealing with trauma of a quite difficult

5:35

childhood, just left his family,

5:38

bought a ship and just said, I'm now a

5:40

pirate, got a crew, named

5:42

the ship the revenge, and

5:44

just started sailing, and he paid his

5:46

staff. You know, he paid the pirates. He

5:48

was he as you say a gentleman

5:50

pirate with zero

5:51

abilities, didn't he not tell the

5:53

pirates that they were gonna be pirates? I

5:55

read somewhere that he kind of brought them

5:58

on. He got all of these guys to be his

5:59

staff. And then only when they were at

6:02

sea, he said, oh, by the way, your parents. This just

6:04

a fun cruise. This is a that sounds

6:06

like him as well. Knowing him

6:08

being in his shoes. Absolutely. Yeah. He he

6:10

definitely he bought the ship. It was

6:12

it was already called the revenge, I

6:14

believe. And he liked the name of

6:16

it. And there was actually quite

6:18

a common name for ships back then.

6:20

And then, yeah, he installed this

6:23

is the really, really fun stuff.

6:25

He he installed a library on the on

6:27

the boat. So he built a

6:29

library because he'd loved his books. He who wanted

6:31

to leave home and leave his wife

6:33

and life, but

6:35

he didn't want to leave his book something

6:38

you might

6:38

do, Dan. So he brought his entire

6:41

collection of his books and put them on the ship.

6:43

I reckon Dan, I reckon you would

6:45

go being a pirate with your bucks, of course, but

6:47

also probably your Benelton collection.

6:49

Absolutely. Well, keep you all

6:51

signed. Everything signed you've got in your house

6:53

would come with. Yeah. I would need

6:55

memorabilia to sort of, yeah,

6:57

wow black beard with, you know. Yeah.

6:59

No. Actually, Benelton did, I

7:01

think, actually hold this particular bit of tissue.

7:05

Oh,

7:06

wow. Yeah. I was actually gonna say it's

7:08

pretty was pretty hard on his wife with the

7:10

look stealing, not only as she lost her husband, but

7:12

he's nicked all the bad debts. But, actually,

7:14

in your case, Dan, it would be quite

7:16

relief from my life 461 Yeah. Be

7:18

like the ultimate Mary Kondo or whatever

7:20

that book was called. It's like, yeah, you

7:22

know, step four, make your husband a pirate.

7:26

Blizzled. Thank thank God.

7:28

Yeah. And so in in in the series as well,

7:31

there's the relationship, the fact

7:33

that he in real life meets

7:35

Blackbeard the most famous of all the pirates.

7:37

And what's crazy as well is, I

7:39

assume Blackbeard must have existed for a long time,

7:41

but he had a two year run as well. That

7:43

was it. Yeah. Blackbeard's pie

7:45

earning years. We're two years. It's amazing.

7:48

You

7:48

live pretty fast and loses a pirate, didn't you? It

7:50

probably wasn't the safest line of work to go into

7:52

for being honest. No.

7:53

No. They were

7:54

like the Liz Truss of pirates who let

7:56

those guys. That's the

7:59

most fluttering comparison Liz Truss has

8:01

ever got. Yeah,

8:03

Black beard and him had quite a weird relationship.

8:05

It's kind of the relationship to a a

8:07

needy loser. And

8:10

the the real cool guy of the open

8:12

seas because Steve wasn't that good at

8:13

pirating, especially at first. Was he? No.

8:15

So, I mean, you know, there's the reality through

8:18

the knowledge we have from various

8:20

accounts and history. And then there's the,

8:22

obviously, the the fictional version, which

8:24

my show is. So without

8:26

getting too confused which which is real and which

8:28

isn't because the real reports, you

8:30

know, are sketchy at best as

8:32

well. But when you look at it, it

8:34

kinda makes sense that, you know, something

8:36

happened between the two of them. Even

8:38

if it was just a friendship, Black beard

8:40

was fascinated by the sky

8:42

because he looked glorious in his

8:44

outfits. He has these little wicker picker

8:46

shoes and glorious

8:49

coats and and various things like that. He was

8:51

a fancy man. And Blackbeard must

8:53

have gone, what the hell are you doing in

8:55

this job? Because, you know, they're all

8:57

desperate. They didn't want to become pirates that was

8:59

like the only life they had to go into

9:01

because of of their circumstance.

9:03

And so here here's the sky. He's like,

9:05

I want to be part of this too. He's

9:08

absolutely not supposed to be there, and he was

9:10

wounded. And I think instead of just

9:12

letting, like, killing him or getting rid of him, I

9:14

think there was a massive fan destination. I

9:16

think maybe if you look at Blackbeard

9:18

wanting to see the other side of how

9:20

the other side lives. And I could

9:22

probably a lot of people did back in those days. You're

9:24

either ridiculously poor and

9:26

haven't got anything going on or you're the

9:28

aristocracy and never the

9:30

twin show they'll meet. And so when they

9:32

do, I think that's when you've got this really

9:34

interesting, like, oh, how can I

9:36

become you? How can I learn from you? How

9:38

can I feel your ideas to

9:40

make me better. So it was like

9:42

the Louis theroux of the

9:44

pirating world. He's spending

9:46

a few

9:47

weeks. Yeah. Observing. Getting

9:49

all

9:49

the Yes. Exactly. Perhaps. Because

9:51

he could've just killed him. He could've just gone ahead of him.

9:53

I mean, this guy back in history was not he

9:56

he's trade as capable as I

9:58

am in the

9:58

show, you know. And

9:59

that's saying something. But

10:02

I reckon this is really interesting way of

10:04

doing history. Right? Because we don't have much

10:06

information about Steve Bonnet. We have little bits here

10:08

and there, but Reese, you've lived as

10:10

him for two years. In the show

10:12

pretty much. And I reckon you've got really

10:14

good insight into what he might have

10:16

been thinking and what he might have done and

10:18

stuff. Yeah. Why the hell he

10:19

did it? That's the always the great mystery,

10:21

isn't it? It's always portrayed as this

10:23

huge mid life crisis. Which makes

10:25

sense is the fantasy that every eight year

10:27

old has that we grew out of by the time the

10:29

twelfth. Midlife. Is that eight years

10:31

old? I feel like when you have a midlife

10:33

crisis, you revert back to those

10:35

tragic fantasies you had as a child

10:37

that are

10:37

unrealistic. And it was portrayed in

10:40

--

10:40

Yeah. -- you know, that the famous book of pirates, which

10:42

is where we get basically all of our pirates acknowledged

10:44

by a mysterious person

10:47

called captain Charles Johnson who was

10:49

written a few years later, and

10:51

his portrayal, which is often what

10:53

is repeated is that he was

10:55

trying to bear the awful

10:57

situation of having a nagging wife.

10:59

But yeah, Reese, you've been him. Why

11:01

did he do it? I really I really hope

11:03

that you James and Anna are subtly

11:05

trying to get Reese to sort of channel

11:07

Steve

11:07

Yeah. And he comes through now. So I

11:09

love this. He says no longer here. I mean,

11:11

I'm just dandy. Steve is just

11:14

ambitious. Look, I I definitely think there

11:15

was a a mid life crisis situation

11:17

going on if you look back at the accounts.

11:19

But also, he had

11:21

this life that

11:23

he didn't necessarily

11:25

want. He was born into aristocracy.

11:28

And at that at that time, piracy

11:30

would had just kicked in and it was

11:32

this ridiculous, adventurous, out at

11:34

sea life. That was pretty much the

11:36

opposite of what he's doing. And he's never even

11:38

been to see, by the way, this guy.

11:40

So he's imagining, wow,

11:42

what would that be like? And of course, anyone who's really

11:45

intensely into their book reading has a great

11:47

imagination. And I think he just, one

11:49

day, went, look, I've actually got the beans to

11:51

change this. And he probably had one massive fight

11:53

with the the wife that he obviously he wasn't

11:55

really getting on with and went, right, that's it. I'm out.

11:57

I'm out. And in the middle of the night, you

11:59

know, he he sorted this out just took

12:01

off on a whim. And I think

12:03

that, you know, he probably thought

12:06

that he had the means to to get

12:08

away with it because he was a chiefly

12:10

person. He was someone who was --

12:11

Mhmm. -- sort of high high up there.

12:14

And so He he probably

12:16

didn't even imagine he was gonna get into

12:18

trouble. It certainly seemed like he didn't.

12:19

It's confidence. Blind

12:21

confidence. Yeah. I once walked to playing Go

12:23

in a virtual reality video game.

12:25

Okay. Right. And this is why I

12:27

was thinking about how these guys

12:29

were blindfolded. weren't blindfolded

12:31

when we did this, but you're walking the bank on

12:33

the top of a massive building. And then

12:35

the idea is you got to the end and then you

12:37

jumped off and then you were in

12:39

virtual reality and you thought you were dying,

12:42

and then you kept falling, falling, falling,

12:44

and then you hit the floor and you absolutely

12:46

shit yourself because you thought you were dead

12:47

actually, you're in virtual reality. But

12:50

what I thought was it was more scary because I could

12:53

see what was happening whereas these guys were

12:55

blindfolded. Yes. So is the

12:57

idea that they wouldn't know when they're getting to the end of

12:59

the

12:59

plank? They'll just keep walking and that's it?

13:01

Or Yes. Well, let's let's Let's

13:03

have a a chat about that. I mean, I think

13:06

why do they need to be blindfolded

13:08

for a start? Because, you

13:10

know, they know they're out at sea, they're on boat.

13:12

Alright. Step up. Step up onto the edge

13:14

here. Oh, this is what I can feel that this is the

13:16

edge of the boat. No. No. That's not. No. You're

13:18

going you're going into one of the rooms. We're gonna

13:20

have a little party. No. No. I can be able to win

13:23

in my face here. No. No. No. It's fine.

13:25

Walk. Just keep walking. Just there's a there's

13:27

a blank there. Alright.

13:29

Yes. Yes. Oh, well, this is going out into the sea,

13:31

isn't it? No. No. No. This is a little it's

13:33

actually a bridge towards the car.

13:36

I've got a cocktail here waiting for you,

13:38

Mary. Okay. Okay.

13:40

It was very windy. Yes. Well, that we're all

13:42

brown. Thing. No.

13:46

Oh, that does that still feels like

13:48

normal wind. Not you. Or

13:50

your winds like

13:51

Larry. Cheeky bun. Just keep

13:53

walking down there,

13:54

mate. And

13:56

I know I've I've really got into that. But, you

13:58

know, I think I've forgotten

14:00

what we were asking. But I actually

14:02

think that's true because it means you couldn't have

14:04

like surprise parties on a

14:05

boat. Could you? Because every time you put a

14:08

blindfold

14:08

on, You're

14:09

walked into a roof. I can terrify it. Say

14:11

it's a party. Yeah. I

14:13

think that's a good point we've got to. In

14:15

history, there's been no surprise parties on

14:17

pirate ships for that reason.

14:19

Happy birthday. Ashley

14:25

doesn't make any sense that they

14:28

would be able to walk a plank while out

14:30

in the rough seas, blindfolded

14:33

and shaking with nerves. I mean, you fall off.

14:35

You don't get to the end of that plank. Do you?

14:37

No. It's such a good plank. You're falling off straight

14:39

away. Also,

14:40

is this where we got the diving board from?

14:42

Yeah. Yes. I was just thinking. Imagine

14:45

the cockiness of someone that you've sentenced

14:47

to death who walks blind footage at the end of the

14:49

blind chunks often does triple. That

14:51

could sound so amazing. There's

14:54

some That's what a

14:56

death. What a death? Yeah.

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On with the show.

16:38

Okay. It is time for fact number

16:41

two and that is

16:43

James. Okay. My fact this week

16:45

is that go like it when you

16:47

smile at

16:47

them, but only if you approach them from

16:49

the right hand side. How

16:51

can that possibly be true? Why

16:53

it was the findings of

16:55

a study in twenty eighteen at

16:57

the buttercup Century for goats

16:59

in Kent. Mhmm. And what they

17:01

did was they put photos of

17:04

humans, men and women,

17:06

black and white, and they put one on the left, and

17:08

one on the right, and one of them was smiling, and

17:10

one of them was and the

17:12

goats always went to the smiling one, but only

17:14

when it was on the right hand side. When it was

17:17

on the left hand side, they couldn't give a

17:19

shit. They were just they would randomly go to

17:21

one or the other. But when it was on the right

17:23

hand side, they always went to it.

17:25

And two things here. One, not many

17:27

animals care whether humans are

17:29

smile wing or nut. We know that dogs do.

17:31

We know that horses do. That's because

17:33

they're domesticated animals, and this

17:35

is one of the first other animals.

17:38

That we found that actually cares if humans smile.

17:40

And the other thing is that

17:42

perhaps why are they only

17:45

bothered about right hand side, well, it could be the way that the brain

17:47

processes things, so maybe they're

17:49

processing. Emotions on

17:51

one side of the brain or visual things on

17:53

one side of the

17:53

brain. We're not really sure. Why do they use black and

17:56

white photo? Can you not fork out in the

17:58

budget for a color for silver?

18:00

Do they see color? Did they see color? Did they see

18:02

color? That's a great question. That's a

18:04

great question. Go on reset. You you're

18:06

from you know you know, goats almost as well

18:08

as, you know, Steve Bonnet. Do you think they see color. I

18:10

would like to think they do,

18:13

especially my ones. When I when I turn up

18:15

to feed them -- Mhmm. -- I always come in

18:17

from the left and they're

18:19

smiling. I'm smiling.

18:22

But I think you

18:26

always make sure it's a That's part of it.

18:30

I was

18:30

just imagining that I must be smiling because

18:32

I'm happy to see that. I don't see

18:35

them or a hell of a lot because they're in New Zealand, but I spend

18:37

time with them when I'm

18:38

there, of course. They are they are

18:40

emotionally intelligent. I haven't realized

18:43

that they were to

18:45

this extent, so they did a

18:47

study where researchers recorded

18:50

goats making certain noises,

18:52

noises when they were happy, and noises when were

18:54

sad. So this did involve the researchers

18:56

making the goats happy and sad. So

18:58

they'd make them happy by sort of giving them

19:00

food. And then they'd make them sad, but and this is of

19:02

like really minimal level of

19:04

sadness. They'd isolate them from their herd

19:06

for five minutes, or they'd

19:09

get a goat to watch another goat eat when that

19:11

goat didn't have much

19:11

food. Oh, wow. Apparently

19:13

this But I know goats and that

19:16

there's very sad for them. That's

19:17

that's tragic. Two things they really care about

19:19

are being together -- Mhmm. -- and eating.

19:21

Oh, really? That's it. Oh,

19:23

yeah. That's and and to have fun, they

19:26

climb. So they love to get on top of things --

19:28

Mhmm. -- and they love running

19:29

around, but they always much prefer

19:32

to be doing all that sort of stuff to see it.

19:34

Okay.

19:34

Well, maybe this is like torture for them

19:36

perhaps. We're also also Anna, I've been

19:38

in the restaurant with you when one

19:40

of us is got our food. yours hasn't quite

19:43

arrived

19:43

yet. And the luck on your face. I make

19:45

some pretty weird noises. I can't deny

19:47

that. Okay. I'm makes weird goat like

19:50

bleeding sounds. Anyway,

19:52

the noises that goats make are pretty

19:54

much indistinguishable to When they're

19:56

happy and sad in those situations, except probably Reese

19:58

for your own goats, you pick up on it. But

20:00

if you play those sounds to

20:03

their fellow goes just audio recordings, their heart

20:05

rates will stay normal and they'll be all

20:07

chilled out when they hear the happy sounds. But when

20:09

they hear the almost identical sounding

20:11

anxious sounds, then their heart rates

20:13

kind of shoot up. So they're feeling this

20:15

empathy on behalf of this other goat.

20:17

Yeah. Reese, have you ever this

20:19

is a leaning into a myth here, but I'll just

20:21

be curious. Have you ever dipped

20:24

your feet into salt water and then

20:26

let goats lick your

20:27

feet? No. No?

20:30

Okay. I've I've been there, but I have taken the

20:32

goats for a walk down on That's the thing. I know you've

20:34

got a beach there. You've

20:35

been through salt lake. Yeah. Okay. Next

20:37

time you're back in New Zealand, give it a go because I'd be curious

20:39

to hear whether or not this hurts. This

20:41

was a a sort of myth that's been

20:43

in books for a long time. And possibly it

20:45

was tried once or twice, who knows, where the

20:48

ancient Romans were said to have used a thing called

20:50

tickle torture. And the idea

20:52

was that you would get someone soak

20:54

their feet in salt water and then the salt

20:56

would then be licked

20:58

by a thirsty ghost. Ghost

21:09

love something.

21:14

Oh, no. I just check my notes down and all

21:16

this is at about ghosts.

21:18

All this stuff I've been saying about ghosts.

21:21

It's ghosts like if

21:23

you smash them. Always approach a ghost from

21:25

the right hand side. Yeah.

21:27

Now it's making sense.

21:29

No. So apparently, that's if you're if

21:31

a goat licks your feet because they have really

21:34

rough tongues that the torture and because they're

21:36

so thirsty and the salt makes them

21:37

thirstier, they keep licking and then they

21:40

rip your feet off and that would

21:42

be a that would be a method of torture back in ripped

21:44

your face off. Their tongues aren't made of

21:46

teeth. No. Sorry. They would they would they would

21:48

slowly like like a lollipop

21:50

lick their way through your

21:51

feet. Yeah. Yeah. I

21:52

tend to not let their mouths

21:55

too close to my

21:57

body bed. Okay.

21:58

Because they have teeth and everything, you

22:00

know. And and they very they're

22:03

always wanting to to nibble.

22:05

And so they nibble on my

22:06

clothes, they pull my garments,

22:08

and I certainly can't see

22:11

myself getting my naked feet out and

22:14

dangling them in front of their faces

22:17

with with salt Do they then another

22:19

question about your guys? Did I mean, do they urinate

22:21

on themselves and each and each other or

22:23

themselves? So first of all, they'll they'll wheel

22:25

over themselves to attract female,

22:27

and it looks kinda cool, BillyGoods shove

22:29

their heads right between their legs because they wanted

22:31

we and their biz, because I guess that gathers

22:34

up the the smell better

22:36

and they wheel over them and

22:38

then they will

22:41

go the lady who can tell that

22:43

he's up for up for a shag, but

22:45

then he tests her urine as well

22:47

to make sure that she's eligible, to make

22:49

sure that she's actually on heat. And

22:51

so she will squat

22:53

down and he'll put his head between her

22:55

legs and then she'll wheel

22:57

over him. And then do curl

22:59

up, the lips, the flame, and the response,

23:01

which is where if you see a go, expose

23:04

its lip, like, curl up its top lip.

23:06

It's got all these receptors in

23:08

it. James is doing it right now. It's very attractive look actually.

23:11

It's got receptors in it

23:13

that pick up whether the urine has the right

23:15

hormones in it. That says, this woman is to

23:17

be fertilized by you. And

23:19

so it's very very rebased

23:22

courting

23:22

process. It's a actually

23:25

stuff.

23:25

I know nothing of that because I only have

23:27

boy goats.

23:28

Oh, really? Yeah. Well,

23:30

when you have both, you know,

23:32

you're you're intermating. And if you've got females,

23:35

then you're then then you're into milking.

23:37

So I've only gotten male

23:39

cast offs, which, you know, the boy goats

23:41

are are only good for either meat

23:44

or pits. Yeah. Wow. So they never

23:46

aroused your goats. They never need to love themselves.

23:48

They never around and I've never seen wee. Oh,

23:51

they must.

23:51

They must. Oh, never never seen them

23:54

wee that might mind you, you know,

23:56

minor pedigree. So I don't know if they

23:58

do. Yeah. Good

23:59

call. To be honest. I've heard

24:01

that about certain breeds. They just explode with

24:03

urine at their death. Don't know. So I'm with

24:05

you. Well, so times I see them hiding. And I

24:07

and I'm and I come to the pin and I think, oh,

24:09

what's oh, oh, you ever know where are you?

24:12

And then I can hear it. Don't

24:14

I don't come in here. I'm in here.

24:16

And that kind of thing. And so I

24:18

wonder, there's probably something happening there and then

24:20

they just come through, oh, hello, hello,

24:22

dad. What what's going on today? Dad. Do they call you

24:24

dad? Yeah. They call dad.

24:27

Dad. I didn't see you coming

24:29

dad. You I come came on the

24:31

left hand side. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I was

24:33

I was just gonna go check on you

24:35

guys. Do you want to go for another walk down to the

24:37

beach? Oh, no. That's that's fine. Alexander's

24:39

behind the pin there. Don't gun going around there. He's just doing

24:41

something. Don't worry about him. I do. Are you

24:43

sure you've got goats, not sort of pantomim

24:45

act as you go? Here's

24:50

here's an interesting thing about goats. So

24:52

you said like pedigree goats. You can't

24:54

get them. You can't get

24:56

really good goats especially for milking and

24:58

stuff. And in order to get those,

25:00

you might need a stud. So you might need a

25:02

really good male goat who's

25:04

gonna have sex with lots of females. But

25:06

the thing is that they can only have so many.

25:08

They can only have sex so many types.

25:10

Right? There's only so many hours

25:12

the date that you can do that. And so

25:15

recently, they've come up with a new

25:17

way of basically what they

25:19

do is they put some

25:21

genes into a goat

25:23

which changes its testicles so they're

25:25

effectively the testicles of another

25:28

goat. And so this goat which isn't

25:30

the can have sex with a

25:32

female and the the

25:34

offspring will be the offspring of

25:36

the original stud, even though the studs just

25:39

at home

25:39

Oh my god. You know, really, really. That's like

25:41

the handmaid's tale kind of

25:43

where you think you're shagging one

25:45

person, but you're actually more first

25:47

little person. It's like it's

25:49

actually a less dark version of the handmaid's tale

25:51

-- Yeah. -- without the feminist and

25:54

dystopian

25:54

undertone. The milk molds

25:55

tail. Exactly. I wonder

25:58

if that's quite

26:01

demoralizing, though, for the goat who the person

26:03

said your testy aren't good

26:04

enough. We're just gonna shove these other blokes on you who you've

26:07

always been intimidated by

26:08

anyway. I don't think they even know their

26:11

goats. It probably just goes.

26:13

Of

26:13

course, they knows he counts.

26:15

Do they? Yeah. Okay. Very good.

26:17

Because I've tried to take them out, you know, we've

26:19

gone into town and my guys have gone,

26:21

no. No. We we can't We're

26:24

ghosts. We can't go there.

26:25

We're not gonna we won't be

26:27

allowed

26:27

to their dad. Well,

26:30

look, can I can I can you take the blindfold up?

26:32

Me? No. Just just you'd be you'll

26:34

be fine, Alexander. We're just we're going

26:36

into town. III can send to

26:38

someone coming up. To me on the left hand side.

26:40

I can see something. He's

26:43

asking me for ID, Dad. What do I

26:45

do? Dad, don't

26:47

have new ID? I'm a ghost. I

26:49

told him I was I'm a ghost. I'm sorry.

26:51

He doesn't know he's a ghost. He could just listen.

26:53

I do know. I told

26:55

you and get the spy phone off me.

26:58

I saw a photo

27:01

earlier today of it was a

27:03

tree which looked like it was

27:05

growing goats. There was, like, an

27:07

apple tree. Yeah. There was, like, thirty

27:09

yards. They loved plants. They were just sitting

27:11

in this

27:11

tree, and I didn't think they had the dexterity

27:13

to do

27:14

it. Avenue. Yeah. That's the big one. Yeah.

27:17

They do like climbing trees and they like

27:19

climbing. But often if you see those

27:21

photos, some places will

27:23

fake it just fake

27:25

it for taurus, basically. They'll

27:27

kind of tie their goats into

27:30

trees and then say, look, all these goats have clagged

27:32

this tree and they're all free will. Because

27:34

at the end of the day, they need the Taurus to come

27:36

and take the photos, but the goats aren't gonna do

27:38

what they

27:39

want. Sometimes they'll climb and sometimes they will. So

27:41

they yeah. They kind of fake it sometimes.

27:43

Oh, that's that's the shocking reality

27:46

of of tourism in some of these

27:48

places, but right, so the other

27:50

thing is there's a theory that goats used to be

27:52

birds. And that's

27:54

sorry. That's why they're in the trees a lot because they are

27:56

reverting back to their previous

27:57

life. Is that a and

28:00

the scientific papers written supporting

28:03

this theory or is this just subblock in

28:05

your local

28:05

pub? No. I'm just I'm pulling it up now.

28:07

Okay. Here it is. The scientific theories.

28:11

Yeah. Yeah. Goats, yeah, goats used to be birds. Here it

28:13

is. Dogs goats

28:15

used to be birds. Here

28:17

it is. Involved. Absolutely. Incredibles.

28:20

Wow. That's a two pages, and it's signed at

28:22

the bottom. Two pages. That's

28:26

as your evidence.

28:29

They believe they're flying. That's the closest thing they can get to

28:31

going back to their old life as a bird by

28:33

flying, and then they'll end up in the trees. And

28:35

you'll you'll often hear them Twerking.

28:41

Twerking. No twerking. You should see him twerking.

28:43

Twerking is amazing. What's

28:44

the actual word that

28:46

birds make. Tweet. Tweeting. Tweeting. Oh,

28:49

tweeting.

28:49

I think

28:50

traffic that's why I'm getting confused. You matched

28:53

up you. Yeah. I may I

28:55

matched those two together

28:55

and and

28:56

coming up with twerking. Yeah.

28:58

I think

28:58

that's how twerking was born actually. It was

29:01

very

29:01

hard gated. Yeah. Yeah.

29:04

Well, that's that's absolutely amazing.

29:07

Thank you for sharing that fact.

29:09

Another another goat fact -- Yeah.

29:11

-- which is is an amazing is

29:13

that, but is true, is

29:15

that we've never talked about myotonic

29:16

goats. And I think they always deserve a

29:19

mention. The myotonic fainting goats.

29:20

Oh. So Oh, it's sparkest,

29:23

they're they're a breed in Tennessee

29:26

that basically have an

29:28

anomaly in their genes where when they

29:30

panic. If they're approached from the left

29:32

for instance or not smiling or

29:34

there's a loud noise, something like that,

29:36

then they try to escape keep. But what

29:38

this does is contract their muscles so that

29:40

they stiffen up completely and then

29:42

just kind of fall over onto their

29:44

side. And it is quite comical to see if

29:47

seen it. It's bizarre.

29:48

I've seen videos of that. Yeah. It's very

29:50

Do we know why it happens, Anna? Because it

29:52

feels like it would die out quite

29:54

quickly. Well, I think it was only dyed in as

29:56

it were quite recently through

29:58

breeding, so I don't think it would have

30:01

any evolution a very

30:02

purpose. And you're right the wild. They probably wouldn't survive very

30:05

long, but they are now bread

30:07

from the same batch that have this I

30:09

think Steve Bonnet suffered from

30:12

same gene anomaly. Just

30:14

sort of stiffening up and

30:16

fainting in the at the side of any sort of Oh,

30:18

yeah.

30:18

Yeah. Nice. And he over came

30:20

at? Did he? Well, I haven't

30:21

seen it. Well, you know, just really sort

30:24

of, you know, getting with a

30:26

really tough pirate and learning

30:28

how to proper be a pirate. And

30:30

I think goats, if you you put those little fainty

30:32

ones in with, you know, some

30:34

real hardcore proper rustic

30:37

goats. That probably learned

30:39

the ways and and would become more

30:41

goatee -- Yeah. -- at least

30:42

fainty. Really good black beard takes them under their

30:44

win. Yeah. That's right. What you can also do

30:47

is you can deprive them of

30:48

water, which bizarrely cures

30:50

this problem. There are

30:51

other problems if you don't get the water around that. So

30:53

it's it's a very fine balance to strike. But

30:55

they've they're kind of useful now because

30:57

my Antonio is also a thing in humans like

31:00

sudden muscle

31:00

seizures. Some people have that. And

31:03

the

31:03

jumping French a churchman of Maine. Are are they called or something

31:06

like that? I remember

31:07

Really? I didn't know. It's I don't know about them.

31:09

Are they Yeah. I know. I thought there was a

31:11

there was a group of French

31:13

grants in Maine, I think. Mhmm. And they had

31:16

this kind of thing where as soon as

31:18

you shot them, they were just famous. Oh,

31:20

really? Wow. Wow. Yeah. How

31:22

long are they stiff for? How long do they

31:24

like, does it just slowly wear off?

31:26

Yeah. I think so. It's the the girls. Yeah. They just

31:28

kind of

31:28

wake up, don't they the

31:29

girls? It's like a fake thing. Yeah. Yeah.

31:31

Seen the This is bizarre. We haven't

31:33

seen the videos.

31:34

It's bizarre. I imagine if you see people did

31:36

do that in general. It's a very bizarre

31:39

trait, isn't

31:40

it? Yeah. It would make the start of

31:42

the hundred meters not much good with it. Mhmm.

31:44

As soon as the bang goes up, everyone

31:46

just stays. It would be a race to see

31:48

who came around the quicker Yeah. That's my

31:50

big The Golden Olympics have never taken off.

31:53

Yep. We call yeah. We call the best in the

31:55

world, the goats. What's going

31:57

on? Yeah. Okay.

32:00

It

32:02

is time for fact number three

32:05

and that is Anna. My

32:07

fact this week is that Tintin's

32:09

hair originally lay flat on his

32:11

head until it got blown upwards

32:13

in an early comic strip and

32:15

it never came back down.

32:18

Wow. That's why

32:21

he's got that famous Steven

32:23

Quiff. I think it's cheap.

32:25

It's, like, on how days.

32:27

Yeah. What are you talking about the size of You're

32:29

trying to achieve it. Actually,

32:32

Reese is sporting at sort of half in

32:34

Tony and Quiff at the moment. So

32:36

I should be careful. Yeah. But,

32:39

yeah, it's it doesn't it was not mentioned

32:41

anywhere in the comic. It's just the very

32:43

first hinting comic that was released. This is in

32:45

January nineteen twenty nine,

32:47

and it Atantar or

32:49

Peder Soviet in

32:51

the land of the Soviets. And

32:54

about sort of ten pages in, in the

32:56

version I was reading, he out

32:58

of a tree, not actually a goat

33:00

and falls into a

33:02

convertible car sitting underneath it

33:04

deliberately. Drives the car away. And

33:06

in the next plate, you see his

33:08

hair pushed up, and then you follow the story

33:10

through it. It just never drops

33:12

again. So weird. Did they did they do it on purpose?

33:14

Was this a subconscious

33:15

thing? We'll never know. We'll never Well,

33:18

I actually have the book here,

33:21

of course, because -- Oh, wow. -- you

33:23

do. Big tension fan.

33:25

Oh. And and I looked at this.

33:27

And yeah, you're right. We can we can

33:29

have a look here. I think

33:32

it's, as you say, around

33:35

Page ten,

33:39

yes, This is Yeah. Yeah.

33:41

This

33:41

is an audio format. Yeah.

33:43

But

33:43

you've you've all got imaginations at home. We want

33:45

you to imagine Tinton climbing up

33:48

a tree. It's coming up the

33:49

tree. See his -- Yeah. -- his cliff here

33:51

is forward. Uh-huh. Yep. Okay.

33:54

He climbs up the tree and

33:56

then there he is, for those at

33:58

home that are listening to this, you

34:00

guys can hear him hear

34:03

jumping. Now, he's in the

34:05

car car, and it's flipped to the back, and it's

34:07

because of the wind of the car. And you can all hear

34:09

that in that panel there. Yeah.

34:12

That's that's that's pretty

34:14

amazing. That happens midway

34:16

through a comic. It's not like the start of

34:18

a new comic. It's like it's like Herge, the

34:20

the creator of the Illustrator of Tinto,

34:22

did that in one panel and that looks

34:24

good. I think that's one. Wow. I just like that. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

34:26

And do you know what's amazing about what you

34:29

just showed us? There's a little

34:31

something in that comic which

34:33

is what absolutely exploded Tinton

34:36

into the masses of Europe.

34:38

And it and it was a very specific

34:40

thing that you might not noticed

34:43

as we were all just looking at these

34:43

cartoons. Well, you notice at home anyone

34:45

who wrote it in these spot at

34:47

the moment? That's I mean,

34:49

the the four of

34:51

us is what talking about. And what it was is

34:53

that this is nineteen twenty nine. This is the same year

34:56

that Popeye was invented by the

34:58

way. And so this

35:00

is an you know, it's years

35:02

before Superman and Batman. This is really

35:04

old school comic books.

35:06

What they have in these drawings are

35:08

speech bubbles.

35:10

And Europe did not have speech bubbles at this point

35:12

in their comics. They were over in America,

35:14

but they were a completely

35:18

to certainly Belgium and, let's say,

35:20

surrounding countries. I don't know about the UK

35:22

specifically. Luxembourg. Possibly

35:25

Luxembourg. And and

35:27

the Netherlands Netherlands. Yeah. Let's go

35:29

there. Yeah. And I read a great

35:31

biography or rather I read a few pages

35:33

from a great biography by

35:36

Harry Thompson. About Tinton

35:38

saying that basically his words in

35:40

these speech bubbles were treated as if they were

35:42

carved on tablets of stone. They became quotes

35:44

and they became something you would

35:46

remember as a result of these speech

35:48

bubbles, and that is why tintin

35:50

exploded. So sorry. Oh, always

35:53

claiming. I would say at the moment for

35:55

me, the invention of the speech bubble is up with

35:57

the invention of the concept of walking

35:59

a

35:59

plank. I don't know if it's getting kind of

36:02

You didn't invent it.

36:03

Einstein. But exactly, didn't even invent it. And

36:05

it's not it didn't independently appear. Did it?

36:07

It wasn't like, oh wow. How weird they've

36:09

got these in America. Presumably, they just read

36:11

a comic in America and thought, well, let's

36:13

start doing that. Is that Right? No. But do

36:15

you remember when Ok Go did their first

36:18

video on treadmills? And you

36:20

barely even heard the

36:20

music. You were so busy watching this

36:23

innovative video. Yes. That what it

36:25

was. I couldn't tell you when the song is. Exactly.

36:27

Go ahead. The treadmill

36:27

song. The treadmill song. Exactly. Well, they're

36:30

relatable for

36:32

future generations. Paracy.

36:34

Well,

36:35

you know in, like, three hundred years

36:37

everyone will be talking about, you know how we

36:39

all do those tread build ounces now.

36:41

Yeah. You know how everyone

36:43

does them. Well, guess who did

36:45

the first? Yeah. Exactly.

36:48

Yeah. That book by the way, the Tinton

36:50

and the Soviet it's country, so

36:52

whatever it is. I have that as

36:54

well. But if you go to the Tinton shop

36:56

in London, they'll only sell it to you under the

36:58

counter. Oh, no.

37:00

Yeah. So I went to it was

37:02

my ten anniversary, and I thought

37:04

I'd buy my wife some ten ten stuff.

37:06

And she's Russian. So where I thought I'd

37:09

buy the Soviet Tintin book and I went and it wasn't

37:11

anywhere and I didn't really know enough

37:13

about Tintin that I knew it existed but I

37:15

assumed that it was maybe

37:18

really rare and I said, oh, do you have this book? And they went, yeah,

37:20

well, we keep it under here now. And

37:22

since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, they

37:24

don't put it doesn't display

37:26

anymore in

37:27

weird. Shoppey. Wow. Isn't

37:29

that amazing? It's so weird. That's encouraging. So you felt

37:31

like you were buying comic book porn.

37:34

It's

37:35

quite exciting. They gave me like an unmarked paper bag.

37:38

Yeah. That's crazy. So nineteen twenty

37:40

nine is when Tinton debuts. By

37:42

nineteen thirty, the comic is

37:44

so mass that

37:46

José was invited to

37:48

meet the empress, who

37:50

was the ex empress, I guess, Zita

37:52

of Austria Hungary. At the time.

37:54

And when he arrived, he arrived

37:56

by train, and there was just

37:58

huge crowds of people

38:00

there to meet, not

38:02

Ajay specifically. But Tinto because they hired an actor to

38:04

be Tinto, who was an

38:06

unknown kid, who didn't have the right

38:08

color hair,

38:10

and he was mobbed. And not only did he not have the right color

38:12

hair, he also couldn't quite keep

38:14

the quiff up. So José had

38:16

to keep this little, like, ten

38:19

of oily grease --

38:22

Oh. -- hair grease. And I thought you

38:24

were gonna go something about Mary about

38:26

it there then.

38:28

Oh, Jesus.

38:29

Tintin had to ejaculate

38:32

every thirty minutes. Like

38:34

those poor goats. Like the goats and

38:36

someone else's testicles implanted

38:38

into him.

38:38

Exactly. Yeah. Nestoring barnacles to Tinto.

38:42

But yeah. So they came off this train, and

38:44

Tinto, the kid was mobbed,

38:46

and he was he was ripped away, and hersé had to go and chase him

38:49

and bring him back. But it was like

38:51

one direction. Yeah. Right? If

38:53

you remember them? Oh,

38:55

nice. Yeah. Yeah. It was. And in

38:57

fact, you said you gave a famous

38:59

Tinton quote

39:01

there, James. Blistering barnacles. Listering barnacles.

39:03

It's it's captain

39:04

Haddock. Right? Who says that? Yeah.

39:07

Yes. Yeah. Frequently. And this at

39:09

least a quite interesting thing

39:11

about translating tintin into English because

39:13

obviously it was originally written in French.

39:15

I was reading an interview

39:18

with Les L'Estelle Cooper,

39:20

and she was one of the two main translators

39:22

of Tinton from French into English,

39:24

and she was doing for thirty years. But She

39:26

said one of the great challenges is fitting the words exactly

39:28

into the speech bubbles because you

39:30

get exactly the same images. I

39:33

don't you know when you hear a French announcement on a tan eye, and then

39:35

you hear the English one. And the French one always

39:38

goes on about five times longer.

39:40

Mhmm. So don't know how

39:42

she was compressing that, but blistering barnacles was one of the things that she came up

39:45

with as a

39:48

translation of actually,

39:50

I think it was in French,

39:52

which means a thousand pattles.

39:55

He's from Belgium, though, isn't he? Yeah.

39:57

Speak speak speak French?

39:58

Speak French. In the upper Belgium, they

40:00

do. He's supposedly based on

40:04

French wasn't he

40:04

Tinton, Robert Sex a. Yes. Well,

40:07

that's

40:07

a good

40:07

name. It's a great name, isn't

40:10

it? Robert sexy. He

40:12

was a French journalist,

40:14

and apparently, he looked a

40:16

bit like Tinton. He went on

40:19

Advent is to the Soviet Union, to the

40:21

Democratic Republic of Congo, and to the US

40:23

in the same order that Tim Tim

40:25

does those books. But Hosje always said, Tintin

40:28

Simwa. So he always claimed that

40:30

Tintin was based on himself, but I think

40:32

he might have been inspired by various

40:34

different journalists.

40:36

There was another theory that Tinto and all the characters were based

40:38

on the family members of Herge.

40:40

And he denied it later in life. He said, no.

40:42

No. No.

40:44

It's nothing to do with them. But let me just quickly tell you about his

40:46

family. There was his younger

40:48

brother, Paul, who had

40:50

a round face and a quiff. There

40:52

was his dad a

40:54

clumsy man who had a twin brother

40:56

called Leon who lived nearby.

40:58

And the two of them would

41:01

go for walks and they would wear

41:03

identical bow hats and carry

41:05

identical canes singing in unison

41:07

as they

41:08

did. His dog Snowy who originally

41:10

had the name Milo in French Who

41:13

does have the name? Who sorry.

41:15

Brother, who does of the

41:17

name Milo in French, shares that

41:20

name with Herge's first

41:22

girlfriend. Yes. But

41:24

that's known. Yeah. A lot

41:26

of people a lot of people who suggested are you

41:28

saying something rude, but

41:30

Harry Thompson points out that at the time

41:32

it was considered to be

41:34

a great crime if you were a young boy hanging out with the

41:36

opposite sex. Certainly, if you were

41:38

depicting that in comics. And so

41:40

the only way he could represent this person

41:42

who was very fond of was to

41:44

put her as a dog in there. And the one that

41:46

we've got on the other top of What

41:48

what kind of weird

41:50

excuse maker for

41:52

the fact that Ajay put pretty much zero

41:54

women in all of his comics. Were you

41:56

reading? Oh, we weren't allowed

41:58

to include women in comic book. And

42:00

then they had

42:02

to be dogs. They had to come and disguise. He

42:04

just didn't put any women

42:06

characters in. It isn't bit of a They're hard

42:08

to

42:08

draw. Hard

42:08

to draw women, aren't they? So

42:11

that's not true. So about

42:13

Bianca Castafuere, the opera

42:16

singer. She's a huge character in the in the

42:19

You're right. She's she is She's

42:20

here on the account as well. Yeah. That's true.

42:22

No. You're right. He have one. He have Bianca.

42:24

That is true. And he did have the

42:26

dog who made me was based on his girlfriend,

42:28

but also weirdly, the person James mentioned, Sextair,

42:30

he had a travel companion

42:33

called Miloo as

42:34

well. So

42:36

it might've

42:36

been No. No way. Yeah. Have you guys read well, it's apparently

42:38

the best tinto, and I haven't read out a

42:41

shame. Just a shame to

42:43

say, but tinto people seem to say. Mhmm. I'm

42:45

guessing, have you read that race? Yes. So that's

42:48

that's that's my favorite. I mean,

42:50

I've I've Is it? Know

42:52

that I Yeah. I think remember

42:54

back. It might still be there on used

42:56

to be on one of the social media's you put down

42:58

in your favorite book. And I just

43:00

always put to to to to bet.

43:02

Oh, well, you've got such

43:03

good taste. That was his favorite you probably know this. That was owes

43:05

you his favorite as well. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I

43:07

didn't know

43:09

that. That's awesome. I don't know

43:11

because it's got a sesquatch in it as well. That's what Oh, yeah. Of

43:13

course. That's what's your

43:14

favorite. I thought you liked it

43:15

for the great

43:18

philosophical, undertone and the exploration of

43:20

kind of Buddhist theology, but it's

43:22

it's the sass

43:22

no. I've never read it. I just I just went through

43:24

and

43:24

and go straight to the first watch look

43:27

at the pictures time. Well, it makes

43:29

tinted the only fictional character to

43:31

have received the light of truth award from the

43:33

Dalai Lama. So

43:36

this like the best honor that the

43:38

Dalalama can do so, and it's to anyone who improves

43:40

public understanding of Tibet, which

43:42

is questionable if they did chug

43:45

a sasquatch into the storyline. But,

43:46

yeah, the Dalai Lama gave

43:49

Tinton this amazing light of

43:50

truth. What's a year to You know?

43:52

Yeah. It's yeti. Yeah.

43:54

It's perfectly correct. It is. You're

43:56

right.

43:56

It and he's a good guy like

43:59

he saves them.

44:00

So really

44:00

love it when that happens. Yeah. There's there's it's a good it's a great book.

44:02

Does the Dalai Lama believe in

44:05

YETI's? Do you know? Don't if

44:07

anyone else you would I would say so. Yeah.

44:09

So he has alluded to a

44:12

belief. Unfortunately, the person

44:14

he alluded that belief to was Brian Blissett.

44:16

So I'm not sure

44:18

if we can trust

44:21

Brian's reporting, but he when

44:24

Brian was looking to climb to

44:26

the Mount Everest and obviously looking for YETI's along

44:28

the way, he had a what's

44:31

recorded an audience with the Dalai Lama and he met him.

44:33

They they apparently did some boxing

44:36

together. Brian took a walk with him in the woods. He

44:38

saw him revive a headless dead snake

44:40

back to life. And then

44:42

they talked about YETI's and he

44:44

suggested

44:44

that, yeah, that they are real. So, yeah,

44:46

that headless dead snake

44:48

back to life. What did he do? Just

44:50

pick it up and wobble it. Oh

44:53

my god. Your

44:57

egg. You'll just swap like that.

44:59

It's alive. It's alive

45:02

again. He's doing it like the

45:04

thumb trick. You make it go? Yeah.

45:06

Yeah. Yeah. Look at

45:08

that. Well, here's the other thing too,

45:10

I'll say about the hair -- Mhmm. -- the

45:12

haircut on Tinton.

45:14

I mean, think about when you do find your

45:16

your do, you know, when you

45:18

you you're young or whatever, you may be in your

45:20

twenties, you're you're

45:22

playing whether storting something out and you go, right, that's

45:24

me. Quite often, not everybody,

45:26

but a lot of people

45:28

will will keep that hairdo for their

45:30

entire

45:31

life.

45:32

And so

45:32

that kind of fits in when you think about that because even even when

45:35

you lose your hair

45:36

or it goes gray or whatever, you know,

45:38

you go into your your your

45:40

later stages of life, you still got that same

45:42

hair do you head when you're in

45:44

your early

45:45

twenties. That's

45:47

a really a good point. There was a thing. Wasn't

45:49

there there was a scientific paper

45:51

written about Tinton, which was when

45:53

the first book was written, he was

45:55

supposed to be fourteen. And by the

45:57

time the last book was written, he must have been about sixty

46:00

because Huggier was writing them for so

46:02

long. Right.

46:04

But he was sixty years old, never had to

46:06

shave. None of his has fallen

46:08

out. Yeah. He's still got those

46:10

boyish features, and a onto

46:13

these scientists, they reckon he suffered from high pulp

46:16

futurism -- Mhmm. -- due to

46:18

repeated blows to the head in some of

46:20

the early

46:21

books. Oh. And does

46:22

that stop you aging properly? Yeah.

46:24

It means you never go through puberty.

46:26

I see. Hi, Kai. He's

46:29

got sort of an inverse to what most middle

46:31

aged men have, what he's bald all

46:33

around the middle of his

46:34

head, and that he's got a lot just lots of

46:37

hair in the middle. And I'm looking at James has actually brought

46:39

a Tim Tim doll. Do you have a Tim

46:40

Tim? Yeah. To this to this

46:41

episode, another visual feature that will be

46:44

lost on our audience. Well,

46:45

there's like a Mohawk for me. He

46:47

really does. He does have hair.

46:47

Oh, no. No. He does have hair. Sorry when you turn it

46:50

around. Yeah. He's just it's just from the front he

46:52

looks bald. I'd just say one one final

46:54

thing is

46:56

that that he he really didn't like Tinton at the

46:58

end. Much the way that Arthur Conan Doyle

47:00

got sick of his creation of Sherlock

47:02

and he threw him off a

47:05

cliff and and kill arsenal. I arguably,

47:08

it's just a wet clip.

47:10

Only because I went there

47:12

a few weeks ago. Did you To

47:15

the like, poles. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

47:17

right. Would you say wetcliffe is an accurate description?

47:20

So he he really didn't like

47:22

Tinton at the end, and he was quite sick of

47:24

him. And so So the

47:26

final Tinton book that Jorge was

47:28

working on up until the point of his death

47:30

was a book called Tinton

47:32

and Alfart. And

47:34

all we have is the sort of rough sketches

47:36

of it, but the final pain that he

47:38

got up to, the final bit of the

47:40

story was having tin tin covered in liquid polyester

47:43

and being sold as a work

47:45

of art. And we

47:49

that's the cliffhanger. We don't know what

47:51

happened. Does he die? Does he

47:53

survive? Tinton is like

47:55

like woody from toys story

47:58

left on a cliffhanger. We'll never know.

48:00

So do you mean he was put in like a work

48:02

of art like a Damian Hearst kind

48:04

of

48:04

thing? Yes. That's the idea. Knowing Quentin, as I as I do,

48:06

I would say he'd probably escaped

48:09

from that. Yeah. But

48:12

his his god might have turned him against that. Right?

48:14

Like Jose was who knows what he

48:16

was gonna do there? We just don't

48:19

no. We don't know. Reese? It's it's

48:21

a it's a gigantic Yeah.

48:23

I will. It's interesting. Isn't it? They

48:25

these people that play also when you think

48:27

of actors that play these characters

48:30

that are so loved. And

48:32

they get sick of them as well. I

48:34

was just thinking of Harrison Ford with Hans

48:36

dollar. Mhmm. Or does he not like

48:37

does he not like Hans

48:38

by the Well, he he said he'll come back to Star

48:40

Wars, but he wanted the characters to die,

48:44

which As a spoiler did that. But

48:46

at that least that's if you haven't seen that one,

48:48

it came out a few years ago now. Right.

48:51

But and then

48:53

the whole James Bondi in that last bond that

48:55

that Daniel Craig. Oh, that's a bit more fresh.

48:56

That's a bit more fresh. It

49:00

reminds

49:00

me of that character. I

49:02

a career in there.

49:05

I've got

49:06

there for you. Stop

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Okay. On with a

50:25

show. On with a podcast.

50:27

Okay. It

50:32

is time for our final fact of the show

50:34

and that is my fact, my

50:36

fact this week is that for over

50:38

fifty years now, the

50:40

author of a nearly

50:42

complete history of the

50:44

moose in New Zealand has been looking

50:46

for moose in New Zealand

50:48

despite there being no moose

50:50

in

50:51

New Zealand. Or is that?

50:53

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Or is that? Is

50:56

that? No. There isn't well, there

50:58

could be. Errors. Could be?

51:00

You'd be

51:00

good. Well, talk to

51:01

us about how would he not be

51:03

looking? Is it quite a short look? It sounds

51:05

like there's not much to put in this book right

51:07

now if there are no this. Are

51:09

you kidding me? No. There's plenty in this book, and it's not his only book.

51:11

He's written a a bunch of books. He's written

51:13

a wild goose

51:16

chase. He's This guy

51:18

is a legend of New Zealand. Yeah.

51:20

I knew you'd like that then. This

51:22

is a man called Ken Tustin,

51:25

and he has been in the national parks in

51:27

New Zealand and Fjordland looking for Moose

51:30

because there was Moose

51:32

back in the nineteen twenties thirties

51:35

when they were introduced. And there's your clincher. There's

51:38

there was boost. So that it's not like,

51:40

oh, he's going to look for theories and

51:42

I hope there's some

51:44

there. You know, there there was most put there. Then I'll

51:46

be dead found out of those ones. It's a hundred years

51:48

ago. It's a lot of things called mating.

51:52

Oh, it's right. Yeah. Go

51:54

down to the sea. Get your toes

51:57

wet. Coming meet me on

51:59

a wet cliff mate. Wow.

52:05

I'll blind

52:08

follow you. Is that somewhat blowing?

52:10

No. No. It's just

52:13

a whirlwind. Alright. Get

52:15

your idea out. Josh

52:18

your quirks. Here we go.

52:22

And mating.

52:24

Say, this is okay. So I

52:27

got the the decade slightly wrong. This was in nineteen

52:30

ten. And what it was is that

52:32

New Zealanders basically in nineteen ten

52:34

wanted something to hunt natural

52:36

land mammals of that size. And so moose

52:38

were introduced basically to rectify that.

52:40

So initially, the moose really

52:44

adapted well to the surroundings, but

52:46

then red deer were introduced into

52:48

the area and that changed the whole food chain

52:50

so much. That by nineteen fifty two. So there was a good, you know,

52:52

forty odd years that they were

52:54

around. The Moose population really

52:56

dwindled and

52:58

then basically by nineteen thirty disappeared altogether. But then

53:00

in nineteen fifty two, one was

53:02

caught on camera. So there's there's

53:05

a twenty odd year period where people thought they were extinct. Mhmm.

53:07

And then suddenly, boom, here is a moose.

53:10

Mhmm. And that is why

53:12

this guy says there

53:14

may be more moose because

53:16

moose are really good at

53:17

hiding. Yes. They

53:18

are no. They are really they're

53:20

really hard to see. A huge

53:22

I know. They've got big numbers. I know. I know. But this

53:25

is a huge national park, you know. It's

53:27

really hard to spot

53:27

on. A moose could be

53:29

standing in a in

53:32

a field a hundred yards away and you won't see it.

53:34

Wow. They do

53:36

get they get hit by cars a lot that

53:40

they move That that is a big problem in calendar. And is that because of

53:41

their this

53:42

in visibility that they can see Well, that must

53:44

be.

53:44

Right? Yeah. Because they they've got

53:46

this mystical ability. They can

53:50

standstill for a long time. And one of their, I think, one

53:52

of their Look, if

53:54

you can just take this seriously. One

53:57

of their, you know, like

53:59

AAA security measure. Defense

54:02

mechanisms. There you go. There's are the terms.

54:04

I knew you'd get there. Mhmm.

54:06

Is to, you

54:07

know, like, they caught caught a lot of animals use that where they

54:10

just freeze. Like the go thinking and it's

54:12

always

54:12

yeah. Well, no, that's a different one.

54:16

That's But that Well, kind of. But that's that's a gene anomaly.

54:18

Yep. I'm just trying to think of some other animals

54:20

that do it, do the old freeze.

54:22

I think about it in

54:24

headlight. They would grab a headlight.

54:26

And do do that definitely, I

54:28

think, on there. They just

54:29

freeze when they can't deal with situation. I think

54:32

so. Yeah. Like, a possum,

54:34

something they would kind of pretend to

54:36

be dead. No. I think

54:36

all of the examples you've gone so far are

54:39

incorrect. Okay. Well,

54:39

I don't know how There are some

54:42

bugs and things out there will just I think okay.

54:44

Here's one. The stick and stick because

54:46

I saw it

54:47

yesterday.

54:47

Okay. And frozen stick and stick and stick and stick and

54:49

stick. So the thing is I used to have pet

54:51

stick and stick as a child, and they never

54:53

moved ever. It wasn't that as soon as they were in danger,

54:55

they stopped moving. They just stay safe. Defense

54:59

mechanism. Yeah. That was

55:01

sad of me. Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. So I've had one I had one

55:03

on my steering wheel the other

55:06

day. This is Beck

55:09

in New When I was in the in

55:11

the rural property. Mhmm. And I I went to grab my

55:14

steering wheel to to to drive

55:16

as you do, and there's a is a

55:18

sticky on there. And I went, oh,

55:20

come on mate. Because if my hands need to be

55:22

there, he was in the two position. Because,

55:24

you know, you go for eleven and two. It's

55:26

the worst. And I went I grabbed

55:28

the

55:28

eleven. And I always grab the left first. Grab the left and go in for

55:30

the two. Oh, there's a sticky there. And I

55:32

says to him, come on

55:33

mate. And I and he just honestly,

55:35

it's him looking at me.

55:38

I'm on the right hand side of him. No problems there, but

55:40

he's not moving. And I come and

55:42

slow and I'm and I even told him coming

55:45

in with the and funny coming 461 at the You're

55:47

on my two position. Nothing. Just

55:49

absolutely frozen. So in the end, I

55:51

just picked him up.

55:54

And he made out like he

55:56

was a stick the whole

55:57

time. I've come to think of it at

55:59

my demeanor. Four four stupid stick

56:01

insect because I

56:04

I see what you're saying now. You're saying animals that have camouflage their

56:06

environment frees, but he's not

56:08

a steering wheel insect. So it would be

56:10

good if you could know as an

56:13

or that the thing you're sitting on -- Yeah. --

56:15

not zombies, but you'd look nothing like

56:17

it. Yeah. I mean, chameleons, they're the other

56:19

ones that lizards and general

56:22

will freeze or or really dart away, but lizards are the ones

56:24

that will will freeze as a as a

56:26

mechanism. So let's go back

56:28

to what what your What

56:30

are we talking about? Moose. We were talking

56:32

about looses. That's right. That's right.

56:34

And so, hey, this is pretty cool.

56:36

We wrote a book years ago

56:38

racer where there was a New Zealand professor called Neil

56:41

Gemmell who had gone to Loch

56:43

Ness and he had used a

56:45

new form called eDNA

56:48

to try and sample the waters of Loch Ness to see

56:50

if the monster may exist. And

56:53

so eDNA seems

56:56

like quite obvious thing that you

56:58

would use in order to try and find

57:00

the moose because you could go there.

57:02

Yeah. And if the moose had been, let's say,

57:04

around a little stream or a pond and if it had been sipping from it in last

57:06

twenty one days, Neil would be able

57:08

to use this device to then take x

57:11

stretch out and say, ugh, there's moose DNA in there. That's that

57:14

means they're alive. Yeah.

57:16

So I actually deamed him

57:18

on Twitter, and I I asked him, you know,

57:20

is this Is this a thing? Would

57:22

you be up for doing it? And

57:24

he said, it's so weird. I actually

57:26

met Ken. I met this guy who's been

57:28

looking for moose. Yeah.

57:30

And he met him when he went back to Loch Ness

57:32

to deliver the results of his

57:34

findings about the water that he took from

57:36

Loch Ness.

57:38

And Ken happened to be there on holiday, and they met

57:40

at lunch to then discuss

57:42

looking for the moves. As

57:46

I might think like it's a massive coincidence, but where is Ken

57:48

gonna holiday? It's obviously gonna be a lot

57:50

less. Where are these two

57:52

letters that you've happened to have heard

57:54

of when see each other. Oh,

57:56

day. So is is he gonna do

57:58

it? Well, he he talks about it. So

58:00

he said, what

58:02

did he say? He said, Ken and I have kept in touch, and the plan was to jump on

58:04

board with him next time he found some sign of

58:06

moose. But there's been little found in the past

58:08

few years. Still remains a possibility. We've

58:12

surveyed quite large sections of fjordland and do reasonably

58:14

broad biodiversity survey setting

58:16

baselines and looking for various things

58:19

endangered birds, some species that are

58:22

presumed to be extinct

58:24

and of course mousse. So

58:26

far, there is no evidence

58:28

of those. However, there's been a hugely exciting thing for

58:30

Ken that happened in twenty twenty,

58:32

which is that a

58:34

kid, when I say kid, he is

58:36

a teenager, And when

58:38

I say teenager, he's in his

58:40

twenties. And

58:42

he was on a flight. He was a

58:44

guy called Ben Young, who was in a helicopter

58:47

flying over Fjordland doing some surveying,

58:49

and he saw a moose.

58:51

He saw the moose. Now here's the

58:53

thing. Here's the

58:54

thing. He's a Canadian who used to

58:56

work with Moose. There you go. He knows what a Moose We all know what a Moose

58:58

looks like. Yeah.

58:59

No public. Canadians really know.

59:01

No public. Really know. Yeah.

59:03

You were specific

59:06

a former moose hunting guide in Canada. I

59:08

still know. Listen, James, he

59:10

would really know. Reese, you're the one who

59:12

just told us a Canadian could be

59:15

turning a hundred feet from a mousse up

59:17

in a plain meadow and not

59:19

see

59:19

it. There you

59:22

go.

59:23

Yeah. Probably. But this guy was a

59:26

trained moose. Yeah.

59:28

Looker. Wasn't

59:28

he? He's

59:29

a trained moose. Yeah. Yeah.

59:31

It's I would say it's not it obviously

59:34

is not the saddest idea they were there,

59:36

like you say, it is a big

59:38

place. And sometimes

59:40

these things come to

59:42

fruition. So there's another really

59:44

great kiwi animal,

59:46

Antoine, New Zealand, the Tawke, which

59:48

I think are pretty rare. I doubt have you

59:50

seen Tawke I think they're quite

59:51

rare, aren't they Reese? Yes.

59:53

They're they're rare. Nice.

59:54

Sure. Nice looking. Very nice looking birds

59:56

though. What kind of

59:57

up there? Yeah. They're the largest bird in, like, the

1:00:00

RAIL family. So, like, coats and more

1:00:02

hands, but much bigger. Very

1:00:04

beautiful blue green feathers.

1:00:06

Huge red beak that goes all

1:00:08

the way up over their foreheads. We can't

1:00:10

fly, but anyway, we thought the Tawkei was

1:00:13

extinct by about nineteen hundred. So

1:00:15

I think the first item by Europeans

1:00:17

was eighteen forty nine of see

1:00:19

the Europeans captured it, roasted it, ate

1:00:21

it. They sort of went quite

1:00:23

quickly extinct. And then there's a guy called

1:00:25

Jeffrey Orbel who when he was

1:00:27

a kid. His mom just showed him a picture of one, I

1:00:30

think, in a childhood book, and he got a

1:00:32

hunch as a child. I bet that's

1:00:34

still out there. And he's been his

1:00:36

life kind of reading on them. And he

1:00:38

was he was a doctor. I think he was a an

1:00:40

eye

1:00:40

doctor, so he was a legit, had a

1:00:42

job. He knew

1:00:43

how his works. So he'd be perfect. Looking

1:00:45

for things. He knows how

1:00:47

really work.

1:00:48

Yeah. He could

1:00:50

he can really

1:00:51

know. Yeah. Yep. So he took

1:00:53

his expert eyes out on this

1:00:55

nineteen forty eight expedition. And

1:00:58

he they went up this mountain and,

1:01:00

you know, these things haven't been seen for

1:01:02

fifty years and they sat by a

1:01:04

little bit of water and two of just straight their net. These

1:01:07

lovely birds waddled in. And we

1:01:09

discovered and now they have them. I think they're

1:01:11

only about three

1:01:11

hundred. They're

1:01:14

very unusual. But Yeah. They're very endangered. Yeah.

1:01:16

But look, there you go. I mean,

1:01:18

that's just one example of

1:01:20

how animals and don't get,

1:01:23

you know, the more intelligently are they know we're

1:01:25

around. They know that

1:01:28

they're endangered. There's only a small group of

1:01:30

them, and they hide, and they

1:01:32

worry, and they their their

1:01:34

survival instinct is their

1:01:36

main feature. Mhmm. And so they

1:01:38

are doing whatever it can take because otherwise,

1:01:40

they could be caught, they could

1:01:42

be we only think it from a human capacity of how how would we

1:01:44

hide? How would we stay alive? But

1:01:46

we're nowhere near as good as animals in the

1:01:48

natural environment

1:01:49

of the forest at at staying alive. Yeah. You're

1:01:52

right. A goose. That's that's

1:01:54

ingrained in its system, isn't it?

1:01:56

Get away. Just back to the fjordlands

1:01:58

very quickly. I just give a shout

1:02:00

out to a legend of the world of ornithology.

1:02:02

He was part of the

1:02:04

ornithological Society of New Zealand, joined

1:02:07

in nineteen fifty a guy called Ron Jack

1:02:09

Nielsen who very sadly passed away October twenty

1:02:12

six, twenty twenty two. He was a

1:02:14

legend of his field and

1:02:16

he spent much like

1:02:18

Ken, many many years looking

1:02:20

for an elusive, supposedly

1:02:22

extinct species of bird, which

1:02:24

are called the

1:02:26

South Island Coca Coke. Have you heard that Coke?

1:02:28

Oh, yeah. We found those

1:02:30

this year.

1:02:31

Yeah. November. What's

1:02:34

that? Yeah. Yeah. It was the first of November When

1:02:36

did he die? Oh,

1:02:42

Trevor,

1:02:43

what it say. Oh, no. Oh,

1:02:45

god. That is no. It's so

1:02:47

much love. Yeah. But no.

1:02:49

Seriously, what what what how do

1:02:51

you spell the bird name? K o

1:02:53

with a line above the k Yeah.

1:02:55

Yo. Sorry. KAK0. It's a

1:02:58

coker code. Coker code. And

1:03:00

it's a bird that hasn't been seen for

1:03:02

many, many years. People occasionally

1:03:04

have supposed sightings, but no

1:03:06

one has properly confirmed it. No one has a

1:03:08

photo. And if anyone in New Zealand

1:03:10

in that region is listening, there is, at least

1:03:13

there was, when this paper was written, a

1:03:15

ten thousand dollar reward for any photographic

1:03:17

proof of the South Island cocoa

1:03:19

there's quite a lot of quite a lot money to be made, doesn't there

1:03:21

if you can find these things that don't

1:03:24

exist? Oh. It's not the easiest

1:03:25

way, prob probably, to pull in

1:03:28

a decent cell a reliable Sally. If you tell your

1:03:30

partner, you know, I'm gonna quit my job

1:03:32

because I've heard lots

1:03:34

of money to be

1:03:34

made. Y'all nagging me too much. I'm gonna

1:03:37

get my books and I gonna go

1:03:39

and find the coconut. Okay. I'll see you. Age

1:03:42

old story.

1:03:48

Okay. That is it. That is all of our facts. Thank

1:03:50

you so much for listening. If you'd like to

1:03:52

get in contact with any of us at the

1:03:55

things that we've said over the course of this podcast, we can

1:03:57

all be found on our Twitter accounts. I'm

1:04:00

on at

1:04:00

shreiberland, James at James

1:04:04

Harkin.

1:04:04

Reese. Please don't contact me.

1:04:06

I think I did this last time. I

1:04:08

haven't got time to read all your messages.

1:04:12

And Anna, eucadiva podcast at q

1:04:14

I dot com. The app where you can go to

1:04:16

our group account, which is at no such thing or our

1:04:18

website, no such thing as a fish dot

1:04:20

com, all of

1:04:22

our preview episodes of there. Do check them out, but most

1:04:24

importantly, go and watch the entire

1:04:26

series of rflag means death

1:04:28

Reese's brilliant pirate sitcom,

1:04:32

the entire series is up now to watch on the BBC I

1:04:34

player. It's an absolutely

1:04:36

awesome series. Reese, thank you so

1:04:38

much for being

1:04:40

here and for the rest of

1:04:42

you. We'll be back again next week with another episode. We'll see you then. Goodbye.