0:01

True story

0:04

media. Hello,

0:14

it's Andrea, and today we are

0:16

sharing an episode of a podcast

0:18

I think you will love. Truer

0:20

Crime with Celicia Stanton. This is

0:22

one of my favorite true crime

0:24

shows because it does so much

0:26

more than just rehash the details

0:28

of a crime. It gets into

0:30

all of the complex social and

0:32

cultural factors that surround cases. It

0:34

is very well researched and thoughtful,

0:36

and Celicia is just such a

0:38

good storyteller. So, Celicia chose today's

0:40

episode specifically for you, and you

0:42

can listen to the rest of the

0:45

two seasons of True Crime wherever you

0:47

get your podcast. And of course, we'll

0:49

include a link in our show notes. Enjoy.

0:54

Just a quick reminder that my new

0:56

book, The Mother Next Door, Medicine, Deception,

0:58

and Munchausen by Proxy, is on sale

1:01

right now wherever books are sold. The

1:03

book was an Amazon editor's pick for

1:05

nonfiction and the Seattle Times called it

1:07

a riveting deep dive into MVP. And

1:09

if you are an audiobook lover and

1:11

you like hearing my voice, which I'm

1:14

assuming you do, since you're listening here,

1:16

you should know that I narrate the

1:18

audiobook as well. If you have already

1:20

read the book, which I know so

1:22

many of you have, thank you so

1:24

much, please let me know your

1:26

thoughts and questions at hello and

1:29

Nobody Should Believe me.com, and we

1:31

will bring my co-author, Detective Mike

1:33

Weber, on for a little book

1:35

Q&A and post retirement tell-all special.

1:37

Thanks for your support. It's 2025!

1:39

It's here! This year is going

1:41

to be... Well, one thing it won't be

1:43

is boring, and that's about the only

1:45

prediction I'm going to make right now.

1:47

But one piece of news that I

1:49

am excited to share is that the wait

1:52

for my new book, The Mother Next

1:54

Door, is almost over. It is coming

1:56

at you on February 4th. from St. Martin's

1:58

Press so soon! I co-authored this book

2:00

with friend and beloved contributor of this show,

2:02

Detective Mike Weber, about three of the

2:04

most impactful cases of his career. Even if

2:07

you are one of the ogiest of

2:09

Og listeners to this show, I promise you

2:11

are going to learn so many new

2:13

and shocking details about the three cases

2:15

we cover, we just go into so much

2:17

more depth on these stories. And you're

2:19

also going to learn a ton about Mike's

2:22

story. Now I know y'all love Detective

2:24

Mike because he gets his very own fan

2:26

mail here and nobody should believe me.

2:28

And if you've ever wondered how did Mike

2:30

become the detective when it came to

2:32

my chosen by proxy cases, you are

2:34

going to learn all about his origin story

2:36

in this story in this book in

2:38

this book. And I know we've got many

2:41

audio book listeners out there, so I'm

2:43

very excited to share with you. The audio

2:45

book is read by me, Andrea Dunlop,

2:47

your humble narrator of this very show. I

2:49

really loved getting to read this book,

2:51

and I'm so excited to share this

2:53

with you. If you are able to pre-order

2:56

the book, doing so will really help

2:58

us out. It will signal to our publisher

3:00

that there is excitement about the book,

3:02

and it will also give us a shot

3:04

at that all-important best-seller list list. And

3:06

of course, if that's simply not in the

3:09

budget right now, we get it, books

3:11

are not cheap, library sales are also

3:13

extremely important for books. So putting in a

3:15

request at your local library is another

3:17

way that you can help. So you can

3:19

pre-order the book right now in all

3:21

formats at the link in our show notes,

3:24

and if you are in Seattle or

3:26

Fort Worth, Mike and I are doing live

3:28

events, the week of launch, which you

3:30

can also find more information about at

3:32

the link in our show notes. These events

3:34

will be free to attend, but please

3:36

do RSVP so that we can plan accordingly.

3:38

See you out there. Hi friends, Celicia

3:40

here. Before we dive into today's episode,

3:43

I just want to say a huge

3:45

thank you for all the love and

3:47

support that we've gotten since we announced

3:49

season two of True Crime. It's been

3:51

really amazing to get to hear from

3:53

all of you. And before we jump

3:55

in, I just have a tiny favorite

3:58

ask if you're enjoying the show and

4:00

you really... believe in what we're doing,

4:02

would you mind just taking a quick

4:04

moment to rate and review us? You

4:06

can actually do this on Apple podcast,

4:08

or you can even just leave a

4:10

rating on Spotify. I can't tell you

4:13

how much every single rating or review

4:15

really does help us. It genuinely helps

4:17

keep the show going. It is the

4:19

number one way you can support us.

4:21

And not only does it help us

4:23

breach more folks, but... I read every

4:25

single one and it really means a

4:28

lot to be able to stay connected

4:30

with all of you. So if you're

4:32

not sure what to write, we've got

4:34

some tips on our Instagram at Truer

4:36

Crime Pod. So head over there and

4:38

check out the highlight called Review Help.

4:40

Thanks so much and without further ado,

4:43

let's get into today's episode. Let's get

4:45

into today's episode contains references to sexual

4:47

assault and suicide. Please take care while

4:49

listening. Hi,

4:55

my daughter Lauren McCluskey was

4:57

talking to her mom and

4:59

then she just started saying,

5:01

no, no, no, no, no,

5:03

and just sounded like someone

5:05

might have been grabbing her

5:08

or something. When things go

5:10

terribly wrong, we're taught to

5:12

take action, to find our

5:14

courage, to reach out. Investigation

5:16

paints a picture of a

5:18

desperate college student trying to

5:20

find help. But... What happens

5:22

when the people you trust

5:25

to protect you look the

5:27

other way? She did the

5:29

right thing. She tried to

5:31

get help. She, you know,

5:33

did the things that you're

5:35

supposed to do and something

5:37

awful still happens. I'm pissed.

5:39

That's just another thing that

5:42

could have been brought to

5:44

my attention. That could have

5:46

changed everything. And in the

5:48

aftermath of a tragedy, it's

5:50

never long before the questions

5:52

begin. How did this happen?

5:54

Could it have been prevented?

5:56

And whose fault is it

5:59

that it wasn't? It's exactly

6:01

those questions will be explained.

6:03

Loring today because this is

6:05

the story of Lauren McCluskey.

6:07

You know where she plays

6:09

in Security, how can I

6:11

help you? Hi, this is

6:14

Lauren. I called a few

6:16

days ago. I've been getting

6:18

these texts from these members

6:20

of different people and I

6:22

think they're trying to lure

6:24

me somewhere. I'm Silesia Stanton

6:26

and you're listening to truer

6:28

crime. Today's

6:35

story starts with the kind of

6:38

night that, for me, felt deeply

6:40

relatable. It was September of 2018,

6:42

the warmth of summer still lingering

6:44

in the air, and on this

6:47

particular day, 21-year-old college student Lauren

6:49

McCluskey suggested to her friend Alex

6:51

that the two spend their evening

6:54

at a new bar in Salt

6:56

Lake, the London Bell. And while

6:58

these weren't exactly novel plans for

7:00

221-year-olds, it was the kind of

7:03

thing that Lauren would have never

7:05

suggested even just a few years

7:07

prior. But now, in her final

7:10

year at the University of Utah,

7:12

Lauren had undergone a metamorphosis of

7:14

sorts. One's focus solely on academics

7:16

and athletics, she now embraced the

7:19

spotlight. She built deep friendships, sang

7:21

at karaoke nights, even tried her

7:23

hand at performing comedy. Now Lauren

7:26

was in the home stretch graduation

7:28

just around the corner and what

7:30

better way to soak it all

7:33

in than a night out with

7:35

one of her best friends When

7:37

they arrived at the London bell

7:39

the line to get in streamed

7:42

down the block But Lauren's eyes

7:44

went straight to the bouncer that

7:46

manned its front He was tall

7:49

with large muscles and a sense

7:51

of self assuredness that radiated off

7:53

him cute guy new bar and

7:55

all had the makings of a

7:58

good night Inside, the place was

8:00

packed, but then, suddenly, cute bouncer

8:02

reappeared, finding the... seats. His name

8:05

was Sean, a call center worker

8:07

and community college student. Something about

8:09

him intrigued Lauren. She took a

8:11

chance, slipped him her number on

8:14

a napkin as they left. That

8:16

evening, Sean texted her. It all

8:18

kicked off a whirlwind romance marked

8:21

by Sean's maturity, charm and thoughtful

8:23

gestures. Nice dinners, flowers, he was

8:25

the total package. For Lauren who'd

8:27

always prioritized athletics, school, and a

8:30

tight circle of friends, Sean was

8:32

different. Lauren confided in her mom

8:34

Jill about her budding romance. It

8:37

was clear to both of them

8:39

that Lauren was smitten. Jill was

8:41

excited that her daughter was so

8:43

happy but felt a little wary

8:46

when she discovered Sean was 28,

8:48

seven years older than Lauren. But

8:50

ultimately, she decided to trust Lauren's

8:53

judgment. She was an adult now

8:55

and she wanted her daughter to

8:57

feel like she had the freedom

8:59

to navigate her own life choices.

9:02

But soon, it wasn't just Jill

9:04

who felt wary of the new

9:06

character in Lauren's life. Alex, who'd

9:09

been with Lauren the night she

9:11

met Sean, had grown increasingly skeptical

9:13

of her friends rapidly intensifying relationship.

9:16

According to Deseret News, within days

9:18

of their first meeting, Sean became

9:20

a near permanent fixture at Lauren's

9:22

campus apartment. spending almost every night

9:25

there. But there were other signs,

9:27

too. Red flags that proved increasingly

9:29

difficult to overlook. Alex told ESBN

9:32

about one occasion early on where

9:34

Lauren said something like, Sean told

9:36

me I could invite a few

9:38

friends to meet him on Thursday.

9:41

Alex found the phrasing bizarre. He

9:43

told her she could. Later, Lauren's

9:45

explanation of her outfit raised more

9:48

eyebrows. Sean told me to wear

9:50

a t-shirt and jeans, so that's

9:52

why I'm wearing this, she said.

9:54

Another friend remembered that whenever Sean

9:57

called, Lauren was adamant about answering,

9:59

and when And she did, he

10:01

peppered her with demanding questions. Always

10:04

wanting to know where she was

10:06

and with who. Once while in

10:08

class, she missed his call. Later,

10:10

he accused her of cheating. Soon,

10:13

he started dictating her whereabouts, telling

10:15

her not to go places where

10:17

there might be other men. So,

10:20

you know, everywhere. No parties, no

10:22

friends' houses, no nights on the

10:24

town. Lauren withheld judgment, though. She

10:26

had empathy for Sean. He'd been

10:29

cheated on in the past, or

10:31

so he told her. Plus, he

10:33

justified his actions as protection. What

10:36

would she do if a man

10:38

came on to her? She needed

10:40

to buy a gun, he urged.

10:42

And while all these developments were

10:45

shocking and scary to learn about,

10:47

I think what surprised me the

10:49

most was just how quickly they

10:52

unfolded. It had only been three

10:54

and a half weeks since the

10:56

pair had met. And

10:58

so on September 29th, when

11:00

Alex met up with Lauren

11:02

at her apartment, she was

11:04

taken aback to see her

11:06

friend in such a state

11:08

of disarray. She looked nothing

11:10

like the bold, passionate woman

11:12

who had taken her to

11:14

the London Bell earlier that

11:17

same month. She was thinner,

11:19

tired, worn down. Alex knew

11:21

it was time to take

11:23

action, so she and a

11:25

couple of friends reported the

11:27

situation to campus housing authorities.

11:29

According to the Salt Lake

11:31

Tribune, they shared that Lauren

11:33

was in an unhealthy and

11:35

controlling relationship with a man

11:37

who was constantly staying at

11:39

her apartment, that he talked

11:41

about bringing guns to campus,

11:43

that he pressured Lauren even

11:45

to buy her own. Not

11:47

softening their fears, they emphasized

11:49

their worries, that Lauren might

11:51

end up seriously hurt. But

11:53

instead of reporting what was

11:55

shared to campus police or

11:57

the school's behavior intervention team,

11:59

whose job it was to

12:01

deal with cases of alleged

12:03

abuse, The housing coordinator focused

12:05

on the part of the

12:07

story that indicated Lauren might

12:09

have violated campus housing. guest

12:11

policy, saying that she would

12:13

chat with Lauren about that.

12:15

The next day, housing officials

12:17

determine that a report should

12:19

be filed, but because their

12:21

computer system wasn't working, it

12:23

never did get filed. Ultimately,

12:25

the housing team concluded that

12:27

because Lauren was an adult,

12:29

it was probably best for

12:31

them to not get too

12:34

involved. Lauren, meanwhile, remained loyal

12:36

to Sean. hopeful that as

12:38

time went on and the

12:40

relationship strengthened his trust issues

12:42

might fade. But then, according

12:44

to ESBN, right before fall

12:46

break, Lauren caught a glimpse

12:48

of Sean's ID. It was

12:50

weird because the name listed

12:52

wasn't one he'd ever told

12:54

her about. She kept it

12:56

to herself. And then, when

12:58

she was back in her

13:00

hometown for break, she tapped

13:02

the name into her Google

13:04

search bar. As she sifted

13:06

through the pages of results,

13:08

a sense of unease swept

13:10

over her. Her boyfriend wasn't

13:12

Sean. He was a man

13:14

named Melvin Roland, and he

13:16

wasn't 28. He was 37.

13:18

But there was something else,

13:20

too. A picture of Melvin,

13:22

faced serious, eyes sullen. It

13:24

was a discovery Lauren found

13:26

particularly unsettling. because it was

13:28

a mug shot. Melvin Roland

13:30

had just left a 10-year

13:32

stint in lock-up, punishment for

13:34

multiple sex crime convictions. As

13:44

we get into spring and summer,

13:46

whether you're going on hikes, walking

13:48

dogs, or just running after your

13:50

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13:52

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13:54

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14:03

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14:11

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14:13

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15:32

mornings with a six and a

15:34

two-year-old are a complete opera of

15:36

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17:04

When Lauren returned to school, it

17:06

was October 9th. It had been

17:08

just over a month since she

17:10

first met Sean, a man she

17:13

now knew was actually Melvin Roland.

17:15

Deseret News reported that, alone in

17:17

her apartment, Lauren dialed Alex's number.

17:19

She poured out everything, revealing all

17:21

the lies she had uncovered. She

17:23

knew she needed to end things

17:25

with Melvin, and Alex agreed, telling

17:28

her she should plan to call

17:30

it off somewhere public. After they

17:32

hung up, Lauren caught sight of

17:34

something outside her window. It was

17:36

Melvin, watching her. Then, suddenly, he

17:38

was at her door, reprimanding

17:41

her for discussing their relationship

17:43

with others. She confronted him

17:45

about what she discovered, about

17:47

his sex crime convictions. Ready

17:50

with an excuse, he claimed

17:52

that he was framed, that

17:54

he was innocent and was

17:56

forced into pleading guilty. Lauren

17:58

wasn't buying it. She wanted multiple

18:01

times to end the relationship

18:03

and kept asking him to

18:05

leave, but he refused. Alex

18:07

told ESPN that when she

18:09

called Lauren the next morning

18:11

to check in, the vibes

18:13

were off. Lauren wasn't saying

18:15

much and she just wasn't

18:17

sounding like herself. Are you

18:19

alone? Alex asked her. She

18:21

wasn't. Melvin had forced Lauren

18:23

into allowing him to spend

18:25

the night. Sometime after hanging

18:27

up with Alex, she offered

18:29

her car to Melvin and

18:31

he left to run a

18:33

few errands. Finally, she was

18:35

alone. Then, later in the

18:37

day, she started getting texts

18:39

from unknown numbers. Why did

18:41

you break up with the

18:43

big guy? He really loves

18:45

you, the first one read.

18:47

But quickly, they started to

18:49

get more and more ominous.

18:51

One demanded that she go

18:53

kill herself. All allegedly came

18:55

from friends of Melvin's. She

18:57

called her mom and relayed

18:59

everything that had happened, explaining

19:01

that Melvin now had her

19:03

car. Jill McCluskey, concerned for

19:05

her daughter's safety and well-being,

19:07

swooped into action. She contacted

19:09

Campus Dispatch, hoping they could

19:11

assist Lauren in safely retrieving

19:13

her car. Jill informed the

19:15

dispatcher that she was very

19:17

upset and worried, expressing her

19:19

fear that Melvin might be

19:21

dangerous. Her panic eventually turned

19:23

into outright tears as she

19:25

desperately explained... like any mother

19:27

would, that she just didn't

19:29

want anything bad to happen

19:31

to her daughter. It's going

19:33

to be okay, Jill, the

19:35

dispatcher soothed. And while campus

19:37

security did safely escort Lauren

19:39

to her car that day,

19:42

Jill's call was never documented

19:44

in a centralized location, meaning

19:46

that campus police never had

19:48

any record of Jill or

19:50

Lauren's safety concerns that evening.

19:52

Two days later, Lauren's phone

19:54

lit up. The strange text

19:56

messages had geared up again.

19:58

But this time, they were

20:00

even more outrageous, claiming that

20:02

Roland had died. that it

20:04

was all her fault that

20:06

she needed to leave her

20:08

apartment to go to his

20:10

funeral. It was at this

20:12

point that Lauren again called

20:14

Campus Dispatch. Do you ever

20:16

see a place in security?

20:18

How can I help you?

20:20

Hi, this is Lauren. I

20:22

called a little few days

20:24

ago about a situation and

20:26

I wanted to kind of

20:28

given updates. Lauren explained

20:30

what happened two days prior with

20:32

her car and said she'd been

20:35

receiving weird text messages about her

20:37

acts. I've been getting these texts

20:39

from these numbers of different people

20:42

saying that they were saying that

20:44

he was in the hospital and

20:47

then saying that like that he

20:49

passed away. But then I got

20:51

texts, you know, asking if I

20:54

wanted to go to a funeral,

20:56

his funeral. And I think... They're

20:58

trying to lure me somewhere. The

21:01

dispatcher told Lauren that an officer

21:03

would call her about the case,

21:06

and shortly after, the University of

21:08

Utah Police opened a formal investigation.

21:10

But the next day, the threatening

21:13

messages continued. It was a Saturday.

21:15

Four days after her breakup with

21:18

Melvin, and only six weeks since

21:20

the two had first met. On

21:22

that morning, Lauren received a barrage

21:25

of emails and texts with intimate

21:27

photos of herself attached. The sender

21:29

claimed they planned to publish the

21:32

photos online unless Lauren sent them

21:34

a thousand dollars. According to ESPN,

21:37

Lauren suspected Melvin was behind the

21:39

text, but when she reached out

21:41

to him about it, he denied

21:44

it outright, saying he was also

21:46

being blackmailed. Terrified and faced with

21:48

what felt like limited options, Lauren

21:51

caved to the blackmailer and sent

21:53

the request a thousand dollars through

21:56

Venmo. Then, for the second time,

21:58

she called campus police. You

22:01

know where I see

22:04

a place in skating?

22:07

Can I help you?

22:09

Hi, so I'm dealing

22:12

with a situation where

22:14

I'm being black-nailed from

22:17

money. It's a photo

22:20

of my me and

22:22

my ex. They're starting

22:25

to send it out

22:27

to everyone. and

22:30

asking for a thousand dollars. Lauren

22:32

told the dispatcher she suspected the

22:34

blackmailer was her ex-boyfriend, Melvin Roland,

22:37

and just like her call the

22:39

day before, she was told an

22:42

officer would follow up. That afternoon,

22:44

though, Alex urged Lauren to visit

22:46

campus police in person. The two

22:49

went together, and when they arrived,

22:51

a pair of officers met with

22:54

them in the station's reception area.

22:56

Almost immediately... The women sensed their

22:58

concerns weren't being taken seriously. And

23:01

I mean, who could blame them?

23:03

The officers didn't even bother to

23:05

bring them to a private room

23:08

to discuss what was obviously a

23:10

sensitive situation. Hoping to convey the

23:13

gravity of their concerns, Alex told

23:15

the Sp.N. that she googled Melvin

23:17

right there in the station's lobby,

23:20

showed the officers her screen. This

23:22

guy had a history, they insisted.

23:25

He was a known sex offender

23:27

with a criminal record and now

23:29

here he was acting erratically. Maybe

23:32

Lauren even needed to move, Alex

23:34

said. But the officers were unfazed.

23:36

The texts were probably just a

23:39

scam, they assured. Maybe Melvin's phone

23:41

was hacked. Still, Lauren filled out

23:44

a police report and the case

23:46

was assigned to on-call detective Kayla

23:48

Daliff. But since Daliff was out

23:51

of office that day, Lauren didn't

23:53

get to connect with her directly.

23:56

Later that same day, feeling unsatisfied

23:58

and increasingly concerned for her safety,

24:00

Lauren decided to take matter. into

24:03

her own hands. Maybe if she

24:05

called Salt Lake City Police, they

24:08

would actually do something. But when

24:10

she phoned them, they explained that

24:12

because she lived on university grounds,

24:15

her report was under the jurisdiction

24:17

of campus police. She'd have to

24:19

stick with them, they said, for

24:22

transferring her to campus dispatch. All

24:24

right, what's going on? I

24:27

feel that a report

24:29

for the, um, to

24:31

a threat, you know.

24:33

You came, you came

24:35

into our building? Yes,

24:37

I did. Okay. I

24:39

called 911 because I

24:41

was, I was with

24:43

concerned and I wasn't

24:45

sure. Yeah. I helped

24:47

speed things up. I

24:50

don't know. Yeah, that

24:52

totally makes sense. Okay.

24:54

Yeah, if you call 911

24:57

the call we'll just come

24:59

back to us and do

25:01

the exact thing thing. Yeah.

25:04

Okay. Do you know when

25:06

an arrest would be made?

25:08

You didn't talk to an

25:11

officer if you want? I

25:13

can arrange that if you

25:16

want that. Okay. Yeah, that

25:18

sounds good. Over the next

25:20

several days, the harassing text

25:23

messages persisted. Each time she

25:25

received a new one, Lauren

25:28

promptly forwarded it to law

25:30

enforcement. Yet she still hadn't

25:32

heard a single word from

25:35

Kayla Daliff, the detective assigned

25:37

to the case. With each

25:39

passing day, Lauren's stress mounted.

25:42

Then, on Friday, five days

25:44

after she and Alex had

25:47

visited campus authorities, her worries

25:49

escalated upon reading the newest,

25:51

disturbing text message. This time,

25:54

the sender claimed they knew

25:56

all about Lauren's police reports.

25:59

In a panic, she called

26:01

Salt Lake City PD. Unworry?

26:03

because I've been working with

26:06

the campus police at the

26:08

you and last Saturday I

26:10

reported and then and I

26:13

haven't gotten an update okay

26:15

but but somewhat contacted me

26:18

today someone who said that

26:20

that they know everything about

26:22

the police okay So you

26:25

already spoke to the campus,

26:27

please. Did this happen on

26:29

the University of Utah campus?

26:32

Yes, they haven't updated or

26:34

done anything. Okay. So have

26:37

you notified the campus, please,

26:39

about this? Yes, I have.

26:41

Okay. What prompted you to

26:44

call Salt Lake City, please?

26:47

Well, I thought it was weird

26:49

that that there are people who

26:52

know about the entire case and

26:54

the harassers came to know about

26:56

it more than me and I'm

26:58

concerned there might be an insider

27:00

Who's letting them know? about the

27:02

case Okay, so with some because

27:05

I haven't gotten updates. Yeah, and

27:07

it's been a week The

27:09

dispatcher once again directed Lauren

27:11

to campus police and suggested

27:13

she ask for a detective

27:16

or the detective's supervisor if

27:18

she was concerned about how

27:20

the case was being handled.

27:22

Following those instructions, Lauren reached

27:24

back out to campus police

27:26

that same day, finally prompting

27:28

a call from Detective Dalif

27:30

who provided no explanation for

27:32

the delay. According to ESBN,

27:34

Lauren was forced to re-explain

27:36

details about her case, information

27:38

she felt a detective should

27:40

have already known. That same

27:42

night, remember, it's still Friday,

27:44

Lauren sent a long email

27:46

to Detective Daliff detailing the

27:49

situation. But as the Salt

27:51

Lake Tribune reported, the detective

27:53

was scheduled for three days

27:55

off, starting the very next

27:57

day, and while she was

27:59

gone, no one was assigned

28:01

to Lauren's case. was still

28:03

out, Lauren received yet another

28:05

suspicious text. This time, the

28:07

sender claimed to be the

28:09

deputy chief of campus police.

28:11

They said there had been

28:13

a development in her case,

28:15

that they had something at

28:17

the station she needed to

28:19

come look at. But as

28:21

ESPN reported, Lauren didn't trust

28:24

it. The grammatical errors in

28:26

the message matched the ones

28:28

Melvin often made in his

28:30

own writing. Lauren contacted campus

28:32

police yet again. The message

28:34

officers confirmed. hadn't come from

28:36

them. Just ignore it, they

28:38

told her. That evening, Lauren

28:40

called her mom on her

28:42

way home from class. Despite

28:44

the drama of the day,

28:46

she was in pretty good

28:48

spirits. According to Deseret, she

28:50

was excited about a quiz

28:52

she'd done well on and

28:54

was on her way home.

28:56

Planning to utilize the resulting

28:59

motivation to finish another assignment

29:01

early. As the call wrapped

29:03

up, Lauren told her mom

29:05

she loved her. Then, suddenly.

29:07

Lauren started screaming. The sounds

29:09

of Lauren yelling, no, no,

29:11

no, blared through Jill's speakers.

29:13

Next, a clatter as her

29:15

daughter's phone dropped to the

29:17

ground. As Jill told Deseret,

29:19

she was immediately catapulted to

29:21

another moment, years earlier, when

29:23

Lauren's brother was hospitalized after

29:25

an aneurysm had ruptured in

29:27

his brain. I had that

29:29

same feeling, she said. like

29:32

I knew he could die.

29:34

I just felt like Lauren

29:36

could die tonight. Lauren's dad,

29:38

Matt McCluskey, overheard his wife's

29:40

speakerphone exchange and rushed in

29:42

to help. They acted swiftly,

29:44

choosing not to disconnect from

29:46

Lauren's line in case she

29:48

returned. Using Matt's phone, they

29:50

dialed the police. Hi, my

29:52

daughter Lauren McCluskey was talking

29:54

to her mom and then

29:56

she just started saying, no,

29:58

no, no, no, no, and

30:00

I don't up. Like someone

30:02

might have been grabbing others

30:04

Matt tried his best to

30:07

explain where Lauren lived and

30:09

where her phone might have

30:11

been dropped. While he was

30:13

answering the dispatcher's questions a

30:15

voice suddenly came through Jill's

30:17

phone. Oh someone's talking on

30:19

her phone hello. say there,

30:21

I think she was loved.

30:23

Police began a campus-wide search

30:25

that continued late into the

30:27

evening and as the hours

30:29

passed, Matt clung to the

30:31

hope that his daughter would

30:33

be found and returned to

30:35

them safely. He told ESBN,

30:37

I'd look out the window

30:39

and as long as I

30:42

didn't see any police cars

30:44

heading towards us, I thought

30:46

we were okay. But then,

30:48

at almost 10 p.m. Jill

30:50

got a call from Lauren's

30:52

coach. Lauren had been found

30:54

dead in the back seat

30:56

of a car parked in

30:58

a lot near her dorm.

31:00

She'd been shot seven times.

31:02

Watching Jill's face on the

31:04

call, Matt knew immediately that

31:06

Lauren was gone. The moment,

31:08

he told Deseret felt like

31:10

physical trauma. Like he'd been

31:12

hit with a baseball bat.

31:14

Melvin Roland. was immediately investigators

31:17

number one suspect. So that

31:19

night, they released his photo

31:21

in the description of the

31:23

car they believed he left

31:25

campus in. It didn't take

31:27

long for them to track

31:29

him down, and just before

31:31

1 a.m. The police followed

31:33

him as he slipped inside

31:35

a local church. But as

31:37

they entered, Melvin shot himself.

31:39

Taking his own life, just

31:41

hours, after Lauren had been

31:43

ripped from hers, had been

31:45

ripped from hers, had been

31:47

ripped from hers, had been

31:50

ripped from hers, had been

31:52

ripped from hers, had been

31:54

ripped from hers, from hers,

32:02

Well, friends, it's 2025. It's here.

32:04

This year is going to be...

32:06

Well, one thing it won't be

32:08

is boring. And that's about the

32:10

only prediction I'm going to make

32:12

right now. But one piece of

32:14

news that I am excited to

32:16

share is that the wait for

32:19

my new book, The Mother Next

32:21

Door, is almost over. It is

32:23

coming at you on February 4th

32:25

from St. Martin's Press. So soon!

32:27

I co-authored this book with friend

32:29

and beloved contributor of this show,

32:31

Detective Mike Weber, about three of

32:33

the most impactful cases of his

32:35

career. Even if you are one

32:37

of the ogiest of Og listeners

32:40

to this show, I promise you

32:42

are going to learn so many

32:44

new and shocking details about the

32:46

three cases we cover, we just

32:48

go into so much more depth

32:50

on these stories. And you're also

32:52

going to learn a ton about

32:54

Mike's story. Now I know y'all

32:56

love Detective Mike because he gets

32:58

his very own fan mail here

33:01

and nobody should believe me. And

33:03

if you've ever wondered how did

33:05

Mike become the detective when it

33:07

came to my chosen by proxy

33:09

cases, you are going to learn

33:11

all about his origin story in

33:13

this origin story in this book

33:15

in this book in this book.

33:17

And I know we've got many

33:19

audio book listeners out there, so

33:22

I'm very excited to share with

33:24

you. The audio book is read

33:26

by me, Andrea Dunlop, your humble

33:28

narrator of this very show. I

33:30

really loved getting to read this

33:32

book, and I'm so excited to

33:34

share this with you. If you

33:36

are able to preorder the book,

33:38

doing so will really help us

33:40

out. It will signal to our

33:43

publisher that there is excitement about

33:45

the book, and it will also

33:47

give us a shot at that

33:49

all-important best-sellerler list. And of course,

33:51

if that's simply not in the

33:53

budget right now, we get it.

33:55

Books are not cheap. Library sales

33:57

are also extremely important for books.

33:59

So putting in a request at

34:01

your local library is another way

34:04

that you can help. So you

34:06

can preorder the book right now

34:08

in all formats at the link

34:10

in our show notes. And if

34:12

you are in Seattle or Fort

34:14

Worth, Mike and I are doing

34:16

live events, the week of launch,

34:18

which you can also find more

34:20

information about at the link in

34:23

our show notes. These events will

34:25

be free to attend. but please

34:27

do RSVP so that we can

34:29

plan accordingly. See you out there.

34:31

Lauren's death sent shockwaves across the

34:33

University of Utah campus as our

34:35

community processed the unimaginable series of

34:37

events that had taken the life

34:39

of someone they loved deeply. Someone

34:41

so many students could see themselves

34:44

in. At an on-campus visual. Lauren's

34:46

coach and teammates expressed their grief.

34:48

Lauren McCluskey was an outstanding young

34:50

woman. She was a joy to

34:52

coach. When you recruit a student

34:54

athlete, you try to understand them,

34:56

get to know them, and when

34:58

you bring them on campus, you

35:00

have an idea of what you

35:02

want them to be or what

35:05

you think they can be, and

35:07

I think Lauren exceeded in all

35:09

those areas. She was just genuine

35:11

and sweet and she had a

35:13

relentless determination of practice that showed

35:15

up every day. She was an

35:17

incredible teammate. She was incredibly caring.

35:19

She cared about everybody. She was

35:21

an excellent student. All the way

35:23

around. She just did everything the

35:26

way that you would hope a

35:28

student athlete would. There are no

35:30

words to describe the pain and

35:32

loss we're feeling as a team

35:34

right now. Lauren was always a

35:36

driven athlete and gave a hundred

35:38

and ten percent in everything she

35:40

did. The loss of her sweet

35:42

spirit to our team is truly

35:44

devastating. We were beyond bliss to

35:47

have her as our teammate and

35:49

as our sister. Always.

35:55

We always miss

35:58

her. And

36:03

we

36:06

will

36:11

always,

36:16

always,

36:21

love

36:24

her.

36:27

A clear picture of what had

36:29

been going on over the last

36:31

few weeks started coming together. Police

36:33

confirmed that all of the threatening

36:36

and hostile text messages that Lauren

36:38

received had, in fact, come from

36:40

Melvin. It's now believed that he

36:43

was using spoofing technology to send

36:45

fake threats from multiple numbers. I

36:48

also wondered about the messages that

36:50

are referenced Lauren's police reports. How

36:52

would Melvin known about those? Well,

36:55

according to EspN. That had been

36:57

rather simple. Before the two broke

36:59

up, Lauren had logged into her

37:02

email on Melvin's phone. After she

37:04

ended things, he used that access

37:06

to monitor her. But that wasn't

37:09

the only way he kept

37:11

tabs on her. Unbeknownst to

37:13

Lauren, he'd also been stalking

37:15

her. A review of security

37:17

footage revealed video of Melvin

37:20

walking around campus in a

37:22

full deadpole costume. His identity

37:24

obscured. On the day of

37:26

Lauren's murder, Melvin had spent

37:29

much of the morning and

37:31

afternoon around Lauren's residence hall,

37:33

waiting for her. When she finally

37:35

returned home that night, Melvin grabbed her

37:37

outside of her building and dragged her

37:39

into a car where he shot her

37:42

seven times. Next, he ditched the vehicle

37:44

and made a call to a woman

37:46

he'd met on a dating site. He

37:48

asked her to come pick him up,

37:51

and the two went on a dinner

37:53

date. Back at the woman's house. Melvin

37:55

took a shower and then asked to

37:57

be dropped off at a coffee shop.

38:00

That night, when Melvin's photo

38:02

began circulating on the news,

38:04

it was the woman from

38:06

the dating site who recognized

38:08

him. His name and age

38:10

were different than what he

38:12

told her, but his face

38:14

was the same. And the

38:17

car they were saying he'd

38:19

been picked up in? It

38:21

was her car. Afraid for

38:23

her safety, she reported everything

38:25

to police. It was a

38:27

horrifying series of events. But

38:30

as the community grieved. A

38:32

new question began circulating in

38:34

whispers. And then, before long,

38:36

in public demands, how could

38:38

something like this have happened,

38:40

and why wasn't it prevented?

38:57

Lauren and her loved ones had

38:59

reported Melvin Roland's abuse, and they'd

39:02

done so many times. And so,

39:04

as new details were revealed about

39:06

Melvin's past offenses, community outrage grew.

39:09

When Melvin met Lauren, he was

39:11

still on parole. According to the

39:13

Salt Lake Tribune, he'd first landed

39:16

in prison in 2004, after soliciting

39:18

sex from a 13-year-old girl in

39:20

a chat room. When he went

39:23

to meet up with the girl,

39:25

Melvin learned that it had all

39:28

been a sting operation. He'd been

39:30

talking to an undercover cop. During

39:32

that investigation, police also learned that

39:35

Melvin had sexually assaulted a 17-year-old

39:37

girl just a few days earlier.

39:39

He was charged with both crimes.

39:42

Originally, his sexual assault of the

39:44

17-year-old was charged as a first-degree

39:46

felony, but a plea deal reduced

39:49

it to third degree. This meant

39:51

that, instead of facing life in

39:54

prison, Melvin's maximum sentence was five

39:56

years. In contrast, he faced up

39:58

to 15 years for his messages

40:01

with the undercover cop. During his

40:03

time in prison, Melvin was sent

40:05

to sex offender treatment, but failed

40:08

to complete it and was denied

40:10

parole. According to the Salt Lake

40:12

Tribune, when he tried treatment again,

40:15

he admitted to intentionally seeking out

40:17

underage girls and vulnerable women, saying

40:20

that he was sexually attracted to

40:22

them. He completed treatment in the

40:24

spring of 2012, making him once

40:27

again eligible for parole. During his

40:29

hearing, the parole board officer asked

40:31

Melvin about his crimes. I'd like

40:34

you to give me kind of

40:36

a idea of what we're looking

40:38

at victim-wise. Is that including the

40:41

woman I dated in college or

40:43

just... Women that you felt you

40:46

took advantage of. I would say

40:48

every female that I came across

40:50

dating or met on the internet,

40:53

I'd say every woman I've met.

40:55

They came across that I I

40:57

I used my manipulation tactics to

41:00

get what I want. Mm-hmm. How

41:02

many how many did you out

41:04

now rape like the one young

41:07

lady? Well, not like that But

41:09

me being a womanizer, you know,

41:11

I I use other taxes to

41:14

get what I want it with

41:16

them Manipulated and use women in

41:19

general. Did you convinced have sex

41:21

with here by manipulation? Did

41:25

I come across with and I

41:27

had sex with? I got locked

41:29

up at 22 and my sexual

41:31

experience, I'd say about 50. The

41:33

parole board officer asked Melvin about

41:36

his treatment and his plans if

41:38

he were to be released from

41:40

prison. At the end of the

41:42

hearing, he told Melvin he'd recommend

41:44

his parole to the board and

41:46

hoped this was the last he'd

41:48

ever see of him. Well, hopefully

41:50

when you get out, you'll have

41:52

learned from this experience. only time's

41:54

going to tell and the therapist

41:56

put that right in his report.

41:58

I know. He doesn't know whether

42:00

you're just blowing smoke and you're

42:02

smart enough. You know what you

42:04

had to do to get out.

42:06

So we'll find out soon enough.

42:08

Because once you hit the street,

42:10

if you start doing the same

42:12

things, if you come back, you

42:14

know where you'll spend the rest

42:16

of your life. I call my

42:18

charge of 22. I got locked

42:20

up at 23. And I'm 31

42:22

now. Yeah, I know I have

42:25

that capability re-offending, but again, it's

42:27

something I'll have to prove. As

42:30

part of his parole, Melvin was

42:32

required to abstain from pornography and

42:35

social media, but just a few

42:37

months later, he violated these conditions

42:39

and landed back in prison. Fast

42:42

forward to 2013, Melvin was paroled

42:44

again. ESPN reported that he had

42:46

a few run-ins with the police

42:49

during this period, but none of

42:51

those encounters landed him back in

42:54

prison. Then, in October 2015, things

42:56

took another turn. Melvin was driving

42:58

when he re-ended another car. A

43:01

passerby, concerned, pulled over to check

43:03

on everyone. Instead of staying put,

43:05

Melvin scrambled into the passenger seat

43:08

of the Good Samaritan's car and

43:10

demanded that he drive them away

43:13

from the scene. When Melvin's parole

43:15

officer caught wind of this incident,

43:17

they recommended arresting him for a

43:20

laundry list of violations, kidnapping, fraud,

43:22

damage to property, and leaving the

43:24

scene of an accident. But because

43:27

the driver didn't press charges, the

43:29

parole board decided an arrest wasn't

43:32

warranted. Come February 2016, Melvin's troubles

43:34

continued. During a routine visit, he

43:36

bolted from parole officers. According to

43:39

adult probation and parole records obtained

43:41

by ESPN, Melvin made it clear

43:43

he was done with parole. He

43:46

even warned that he'd act aggressively

43:48

if another officer showed up. It

43:51

wasn't long before officers discovered as

43:53

second phone mail that had been

43:55

using to store explicit photos and

43:58

message women on social media. He

44:00

was arrested for... skipping his mandated

44:03

sex offender therapy, fleeing from officers,

44:05

possessing pornographic material, and using social

44:07

media without approval. At his parole

44:10

board hearing, Melvin insisted that his

44:12

threats to officers were just heat-of-the-moment

44:14

frustration. Despite his claims, the board

44:17

decided it was time for him

44:19

to go back to prison. In

44:22

April of 2018, Melvin was granted

44:24

parole one final time. His sentence

44:26

was set to expire the following

44:29

spring. and he was only out

44:31

of prison for a handful of

44:33

months before meeting Lauren. Three days

44:36

after Lauren had reported being blackmailed

44:38

Melvin had actually met with his

44:41

parole officer, but because campus police

44:43

never checked Melvin's offender status, they

44:45

didn't even know he was on

44:48

parole. Checking parole status just wasn't

44:50

a part of campus police protocol.

44:52

In fact, according to ESBN, the

44:55

University of Utah's Internal Investigation discovered

44:57

that officers didn't even know how

45:00

to check correction statuses in the

45:02

first place. Some sources even reported

45:04

that the University Police Chief didn't

45:07

trust Utah's adult probation and parole

45:09

board, and that it was basically

45:11

unofficial policy to avoid communicating with

45:14

them at a fear they might

45:16

negatively interfere with ongoing investigations at

45:19

the university. It's all a shame,

45:21

because the fact is... Melvin had

45:23

social media was using dating sites

45:26

and even borrowed a gun before

45:28

killing Lauren, all of which were

45:31

in direct violation of his parole

45:33

terms. In the aftermath of Lauren's

45:35

murder, the University of Utah hired

45:38

an independent team to review the

45:40

university officers' handling of her case.

45:42

Their report highlighted several shortcomings by

45:45

officials and recommendations for improvement, including

45:47

hiring victim advocates and providing officers

45:50

with adequate training related to interpersonal

45:52

violence. The report concluded, quote, we

45:54

will never know that this tragedy

45:57

could have been prevented without these.

45:59

What we can say is that

46:01

correcting the issues we have identified

46:04

in this report might lessen the

46:06

probability of such a tragedy occurring

46:09

again. But according to the Salt

46:11

Lake Tribune, the university president took

46:13

her own interpretation of the report.

46:16

At a press conference, she claimed,

46:18

quote, the report does not offer

46:20

any reason to believe that this

46:23

tragedy could have been prevented. It

46:25

was a statement that didn't sit

46:28

well with Lauren's loved ones. Lauren's

46:30

parents filed a $56 million lawsuit

46:32

the following summer. At the time,

46:35

they said, they viewed it as

46:37

a last resort, after months of

46:39

trying to work with the University

46:42

of Utah directly. But in the

46:44

years following Lauren's murder, it became

46:47

clear that issues with the University

46:49

Police Department stretched far beyond the

46:51

mistakes made in Lauren's case. Just

46:54

five months after Lauren's murder, Detective

46:56

Daliff was fired for taking insufficient

46:58

and delayed action on yet another.

47:01

domestic violence case. Similarly, Officer Miguel

47:03

Dares, one of Lauren's primary points

47:06

of contact within the department, was

47:08

disciplined for mistakes he made in

47:10

a similar case. According to his

47:13

discipline letter, in that case, he

47:15

didn't check the suspect's parole status

47:18

and even interviewed the victim while

47:20

the suspect was still in the

47:22

room. To make matters worse, the

47:25

Salt Lake Tribune reported that Officer

47:27

Dares had shown Lauren's intimate photos

47:29

to a co-worker. Yep. the same

47:32

photos Melvin used to blackmail Lauren.

47:34

And no, Officer Daris wasn't showing

47:37

the photos in some kind of

47:39

professional capacity. Instead, he was bragging

47:41

about, quote, getting to look at

47:44

them whenever he wanted. The university

47:46

responded, saying they were aware of

47:48

Daris' behavior, but had only learned

47:51

of him sharing the photos after

47:53

he transferred to a different police

47:56

department. The Salt Lake Tribune also

47:58

published its own investigative report. One

48:00

that illuminated a long history of

48:03

officers downplaying and ignoring cases of

48:05

dating and domestic violence violence. According

48:07

to discipline records they obtained during

48:10

their investigation, many officers failed to

48:12

contact victims on reasonable timelines. Some

48:15

even ignoring reports completely. Former staff

48:17

members told the Salt Lake Tribune

48:19

that they had instructions to, quote,

48:22

downplay the number of domestic violence

48:24

cases by not creating a record

48:26

for some calls or altering dispatch

48:29

log entries for others. Similarly, female

48:31

students who had reported rape, sexual

48:34

assault, and harassment said they felt

48:36

their concerns weren't taken seriously. Hearing

48:38

about all these egregious errors had

48:41

me reflecting on accountability. It's abundantly

48:43

clear that so many individual people

48:46

failed at their jobs. Countless singular

48:48

missteps with dire consequences. And while

48:50

those folks certainly must be held

48:53

accountable for their role, I also

48:55

believe that the easiest thing we

48:57

can do as a society is

49:00

to scapegoat one or a few

49:02

individuals, the harder and perhaps more

49:05

crucial task is to recognize the

49:07

ways in which entire systems failed

49:09

to protect Lauren. Because individuals operating

49:12

in broken systems are bound to

49:14

fail. And it's for that reason

49:16

that Lauren's parents continue fighting for

49:19

change in her memory. In 2020,

49:21

the McCluskeys won a $13.5 million

49:24

settlement from the State and University

49:26

of Utah. Soon after, they shared

49:28

their intention to donate all of

49:31

the settlement money to the Lauren

49:33

McCluskey Foundation. An organization they founded

49:35

in 2019, with a mission to

49:38

increase awareness of stalking and dating

49:40

violence at colleges and universities across

49:43

the country. As a part of

49:45

that work, they also created Lauren's

49:47

promise. A campaign that encourages faculty,

49:50

staff, students, parents, and community members

49:52

to publicly pledge their support with

49:54

a statement of solidarity that indicates

49:57

to others that they will listen

49:59

and believe victims of sexual assault

50:02

dating violence and stalking, that they

50:04

can be a trusted source, ready

50:06

to connect folks with needed resources.

50:09

The McCluskey family has also been

50:11

critical in the adoption of several

50:13

state bills, including one that requires

50:16

Utah public colleges to create detailed

50:18

response plans for cases of stalking,

50:21

sexual assault, dating, and domestic violence.

50:24

Amid student protests and the

50:26

work of Lauren's loved ones,

50:28

the University of Utah has

50:30

also made a number of

50:33

meaningful changes. According to the

50:35

Salt Lake Tribune, in 2020,

50:37

the school opened a Center

50:40

for Violence Prevention, an institution

50:42

that will research intimate partner

50:44

violence like that which Lauren

50:46

experienced. And truly, all of

50:49

what I just shared is

50:51

the tip of the iceberg.

50:53

Despite the overwhelming pain of

50:56

Lauren's death, the McCluskeys have

50:58

been fueled by their unimaginable

51:00

loss to make a meaningful

51:03

difference. And still, there is

51:05

so much work to be

51:07

done. In fact, another University

51:09

of Utah student, 19-year-old Shefondong,

51:12

was killed by her ex

51:14

in February of 2022. Less

51:16

than a month after she

51:19

reported to campus police police

51:21

that the same ex- had

51:23

assaulted her. As Lauren's dad

51:26

told ESPN, there are so

51:28

many young women like Lauren

51:30

who are just as precious

51:32

to their parents, women whose

51:35

stories don't get the same

51:37

attention. And for me, it's

51:39

that acknowledgement that should fuel

51:42

the rest of us. Lauren's

51:44

legacy has and will continue

51:46

to be absolutely transformative. And

51:48

if a single story can

51:51

spur so much action, what

51:53

might be possible if we

51:55

afforded every young person this

51:58

same level of care and

52:00

recognition? But then, we could

52:02

understand the full picture a

52:05

little more deeply. That these

52:07

stories have happened, are happening,

52:09

and will continue to happen

52:11

unless and until we decide

52:14

to stop treating community problems

52:16

as individual problems and transform

52:18

systems that keep us trapped

52:21

in patterns that ultimately hurt

52:23

all of us. Before

52:37

you jump away, just a couple

52:39

more things I wanted to share

52:41

with you. One thing that really

52:44

stuck out to me about today's

52:46

story is Lauren's parents, Jill and

52:48

Matt McCluskey, and just their commitment

52:50

to advocating for folks like Lauren

52:53

across the country. We told you

52:55

in the episode, but in her

52:57

honor, they founded the Lauren McCluskey

53:00

Foundation, whose mission is to let

53:02

Lauren's light shine by supporting her

53:04

passions, which were things like animal

53:06

welfare, amateur athletics, and of course,

53:09

by making sure that campuses across

53:11

the country are a place where

53:13

students are safe, supported, and have

53:15

the ability to thrive. So I

53:18

really recommend that for today's action

53:20

item, check out their website. They

53:22

offer advocates and allies a plethora

53:24

of amazing resources. Even things like

53:27

a student toolkit for those who

53:29

like to push for change and

53:31

create a culture of safety on

53:34

their own campuses. Much of their

53:36

work also centers around forwarding Lauren's

53:38

promise, which is that pledge that

53:40

basically says, I will listen and

53:43

believe you if someone is threatening

53:45

you. So you can make Lauren's

53:47

promise, learn how to volunteer, and

53:49

donate to sport the rest of

53:52

their incredible work at Lauren mccluskey.org.

53:54

As always, you can keep up

53:56

with Truer Crime on Instagram and

53:59

X at Truer Crime Pod, and

54:01

you can also find me on

54:03

Instagram and Tiktok at Salicia Stanton.

54:05

And through my weekly newsletter, Sincerely

54:08

Salicia at Sincerely salicia.com. full source

54:10

list and links to all of

54:12

today's action items, make sure to

54:14

visit our website at Truer Crime

54:17

podcast.com. Truer Crime is created, hosted,

54:19

and written by me, Celicia Stanton,

54:21

and is a production of Tenderfoot

54:23

TV in association with Odyssey. Additional

54:26

writing and research by Olivia Houstonfeld.

54:28

Executive producers are myself, Donald Albright,

54:30

and Pain Lindsay. Additional production by

54:33

Olivia Houstonfeld and Jamie Albright. Editing

54:35

by Liam Luxon with additional editing

54:37

support by Sydney Evans and Jaja

54:39

Muhammad. Our supervising producer is Tracy

54:42

Kaplan. Artwork by Station 16. Original

54:44

music by Jay Ragsdale. Mix by

54:46

Dayton, Mix by Dayton Cole. Thank

54:48

you to Orrin Rosenbaum and the

54:51

team at UTA, Beck Media and

54:53

Marketing, and the Nord Group. For

54:55

more podcast like Truer Crime, search

54:57

Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast

55:00

app or visit us at Tenderfoot.

55:02

TV. Thanks for listening. Well friends,

55:04

it's 2025. It's here. This year

55:07

is going to be... Well, one

55:09

thing it won't be is boring,

55:11

and that's about the only prediction

55:13

I'm going to make right now.

55:16

But one piece of news that

55:18

I am excited to share is

55:20

that the wait for my new

55:22

book, The Mother Next Door, is

55:25

almost over. It is coming at

55:27

you on February 4th from St.

55:29

Martin's Press. So soon! I co-authored

55:31

this book with friend and beloved

55:34

contributor of this show, Detective Mike

55:36

Weber, about three of the most

55:38

impactful cases of his career. Even

55:41

if you are one of the

55:43

ogiest of Og listeners to this

55:45

show, I promise you are going

55:47

to learn so many new and

55:50

shocking details about the three cases

55:52

we cover, we just go into

55:54

so much more depth on these

55:56

stories. And you're also going to

55:59

learn a ton about Mike's story.

56:01

Now I know y'all love Detective

56:03

Mike because he gets his very

56:05

own fan mail here and nobody

56:08

should believe me. And if you've ever

56:10

wondered, how did Mike become the detective

56:12

when it came to my chosen by

56:14

proxy cases? You are going to learn

56:16

all about his origin story in this book.

56:18

And I know we've got many audio book

56:20

listeners out there, so I'm very excited to

56:22

share with you. The audio book is read

56:25

by me. Andrea Dunlop, you are a humble

56:27

narrator of this very show. I really loved

56:29

getting to read this book and I'm so

56:31

excited to share this with you. If you

56:33

are able to pre-order the book, doing so

56:35

will really help us out. It will signal

56:37

to our publisher that there is excitement about

56:39

the book and it will also give us

56:41

a shot at that all-important best-seller list. And

56:43

of course, if that's simply not in the

56:46

budget right now, we get it, books are

56:48

not cheap, library sales are also extremely important

56:50

for books. So putting in a request at

56:52

your local library is another way that you

56:54

can help. So you can pre-order the book

56:56

right now in all formats at the link

56:59

in our show notes, and if you are

57:01

in Seattle or Fort Worth, Mike and I

57:03

are doing live events, the week of launch,

57:05

which you can also find more information about

57:07

at the link in our show notes. These

57:10

events will be free to attend, but please

57:12

do RSVP so that we can plan accordingly.

57:14

See you out there.