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106 .7 The Beat. Columbus is real hip

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hop and R &B. So

0:31

this thing happened that really obviously

0:34

gave my life a direction and a

0:36

shape and a meaning which Yeah.

0:38

Now looking back on it, it's like,

0:40

well, it just makes so much

0:42

sense. Yeah. But what if that teacher

0:44

hadn't done that, you know? Welcome

0:49

to Off the Cup, my personal

0:51

anti -anxiety antidote. So

0:53

listeners, you've probably heard of the

0:55

White House Correspondents' Dinner. It's

0:57

one of the rare places that

1:00

politics and Hollywood collide for

1:02

a night. Politico's

1:04

DC journalists commingle with

1:06

bona fide Hollywood

1:09

celebrities, which is always fun for us.

1:12

But there's one other place where

1:14

this happens. Real time

1:16

with Bill Maher. Four years

1:18

on Bill's weekly HBO show,

1:21

he gathers celebs and political personalities

1:23

on the stage to talk about

1:25

the news. I've done that

1:27

show many times, and so I've

1:29

gotten to meet really interesting, smart

1:31

people, including some actors and

1:33

artists from Zach Galifianakis.

1:36

to John Cleese. Another

1:39

interesting smart person I

1:41

met there was today's guest. He

1:44

is a brilliant actor of the stage,

1:46

the silver screen and the small

1:48

screen. You may know him from the

1:50

2000 aughts science fiction drama series

1:52

Heroes or as Spock in

1:54

the Star Trek reboots or from

1:56

his new series, Brilliant Minds

1:59

on NBC, it's

2:01

Zachary Quinto. Welcome to Off the

2:03

Cup. Happy to be here. It's nice to

2:05

see you again after so long. I think

2:07

that was 2015. Had you had you

2:09

done Bill Mar before? Was that your first

2:11

time? I've done it twice

2:14

and I think you and

2:16

I Was Barney Frank there that

2:18

night? Yes. Yeah, so I

2:20

think that was my I

2:22

don't remember to be honest with

2:24

you. It's a long time ago.

2:26

That's crazy. It was 2015 -20 Almost

2:28

a decade ago. Yeah, right? That's wild

2:31

So I don't remember if you and I,

2:33

we were only on it together once. I kind

2:35

of have an inkling that it was my second

2:37

time. I think it was my

2:39

second time. My first appearance was more

2:41

successful than my second one, I thought. Well,

2:43

what was unsuccessful about the one I was

2:45

in? I felt like there

2:48

was, it was really about

2:50

the topics. I remember... there

2:52

were things going on in the news that I was

2:54

really excited to talk about. And I felt like I had

2:56

a point of view on the thing about being on

2:58

real time is you've got to have a point of view.

3:01

And I remember that the issues

3:03

that were being discussed were not

3:05

things that I

3:07

was particularly plugged into. They

3:10

weren't things that were resonant for

3:12

me. So I had less to

3:14

contribute. And I felt a little

3:16

bit more like it could have gone

3:18

a different way. But I love Bill. I love

3:20

his his

3:22

fearlessness and his willingness to

3:24

be controversial or incendiary or,

3:26

you know, to engage people in

3:28

conversation without kid gloves, I

3:30

think is something that's really special

3:32

and valuable about him as

3:34

a commentator and as an intellectual.

3:37

I really respect him a

3:39

lot and, you know, I'd love to go

3:41

back and do it again, but I just haven't had the

3:43

occasion in the last few years. Anyway,

3:45

but yeah. It's a

3:47

really fun show to do, but it can

3:49

be tough. And

3:52

it's, listen, as someone

3:54

who's been on it a lot

3:56

and I get some of the

3:58

insider intel, it is not for any

4:00

celebrity. Bill really tends to only

4:02

have on smart actors who are

4:04

very plugged in with current events,

4:07

as you say, have a point of

4:09

view, but can hang with people who do

4:11

politics for a living because he wants a

4:13

high level. conversation and

4:15

he doesn't want the celebrity to just

4:17

show up with star power.

4:20

So how did you

4:22

prep for this

4:24

show where suddenly you were going

4:26

to be there as yourself with your

4:29

mind and your thoughts and

4:31

your opinions on a stage? It

4:34

really took me back to

4:36

when I would do debates

4:39

in high school actually because I

4:41

don't know if they do this for you, but

4:44

for the celebrity gas

4:46

more from the

4:48

Hollywood sort of realm,

4:51

they do a pretty intense

4:53

like briefing with one

4:55

of the producers that they

4:58

give us essentially a range

5:00

of topics that could be

5:02

discussed. And they actually send

5:04

a packet of articles and

5:06

a packet of information that it

5:08

really is a kind of you

5:11

know, it requires prep. It requires studying.

5:13

I mean, you've got to study because you've

5:15

got to know what he might talk

5:17

about. And then you've got to know all

5:19

of the information on it to have

5:21

an opinion. You know, so I was grateful

5:23

for that. And I was really invested

5:25

in that process. Because as I say, it

5:27

was, you know, it demanded something of

5:29

me that most appearances like that don't demand.

5:32

You know, mostly when you go on

5:34

talk shows, the goal is to be at

5:36

ease. The goal is to be yourself. The

5:38

goal is to you know, be affable

5:40

and be some anecdotes and promote

5:42

your stuff. But, you know, with Bill,

5:44

it's definitely like you've

5:46

like you said, you've got to hang and

5:48

you've got to hang with the likes of

5:50

you and, you know, Barney Frank and people

5:52

that really know their stuff. And so

5:54

so prep was actually prep prep

5:56

was actually studying. That is

5:58

the thing. It is such and I've said

6:00

this a million times. I think

6:03

it's the best produced news show. Talk

6:06

format show because a he's been doing

6:08

it forever and they've been doing it

6:10

forever And they really locked into a

6:12

format that works. They don't need to

6:14

change it But in my business when

6:16

we do a news show in New

6:18

York or DC The production is like

6:20

very light you go to do Bill

6:22

Maher and I feel the same way

6:24

about the view and that's like Hollywood

6:26

production It's like okay. They are producing

6:28

TV first news second right and you

6:30

feel that I mean at least for

6:32

me I'm outside of Hollywood It's reversed

6:34

for you. But for me, I come

6:36

to LA to do it. And it's

6:38

like, oh, this is Hollywood. Right.

6:40

Your experience of doing something where you're

6:42

making an appearance on a news show, right?

6:44

Where you're a commentator or, you know,

6:47

a guest and then going to do something

6:49

like that or a talk show. mean,

6:51

I feel that any time you do like

6:53

a, there's such, there's such well oiled

6:55

machines like you mentioned with you or like.

6:57

you know, live with Kelly or I

6:59

just did the Drew Barrymore show for the

7:01

first time. It's like, you know, these

7:03

are people that have been doing this format

7:05

of television for decades, you know, maybe

7:07

not on this particular show, but generally speaking,

7:09

you know, so it really does have

7:12

that sense of like, you're stepping into any

7:14

of those late night talk shows or

7:16

even the daytime ones, you know, they really

7:18

do have like a spirit of their

7:20

own. And it's exciting to be around, you

7:22

know? It really is. I mean, for

7:24

me, especially, well, You were great on that.

7:26

It was great to meet you there.

7:28

And a long been a fan of your

7:30

work. I want to talk about your

7:32

career and your causes. But first, I

7:35

like to start interviews by asking what

7:37

kind of kid were you? I

7:40

was pretty precocious as

7:42

a kid, actually. I was

7:44

raised by a single mom. And

7:47

so I found myself at

7:49

a very young age needing to

7:52

be pretty self -sufficient, pretty independent.

7:54

I had to I

7:56

had to take on responsibilities at a

7:58

pretty young age that I would say

8:00

most kids don't have to take on.

8:02

And so as a result, I cultivated

8:04

a personality that I think was very

8:06

resilient and a little precocious. You know,

8:08

I was, my mom always used to

8:10

say, you're such a no at all,

8:12

right? Like I, like I thought I

8:14

knew how things needed to be, you

8:16

know, at a very young age, which

8:18

is kind of funny and endearing to

8:20

look back on now. But I was

8:22

really curious, imaginative. I love to play

8:24

and I And because I was raised

8:26

by a single mom, there

8:29

was a lot of solitude in

8:31

my childhood. I would come home

8:33

from school to an empty house.

8:37

From, I would say, my

8:40

father passed away when I

8:42

was seven. And so pretty

8:44

much from second, third grade, at

8:46

nine, 10 years old, I

8:49

was on my own. There was family

8:51

around when I was that one on the younger

8:53

end of that spectrum. But once

8:55

I was in middle school, I

8:57

was totally on my own

9:00

from the hours of 2 .30

9:02

in the afternoon to 6 .30

9:04

at night. It's a long time

9:06

for a kid to have

9:08

unstructured alone time. So I would

9:10

really fill it with a

9:12

lot of self -generated adventure and

9:14

self -generated storytelling. And I think

9:16

it cultivated my imagination in a

9:18

way that I think definitely lent itself

9:20

to... vocation that I would eventually,

9:23

you know, pursue as an actor. Yeah.

9:25

I'm an only child. And so, yeah, I

9:27

had a lot of alone time with myself

9:30

as well. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of pretend

9:32

time. But how did your, how did the

9:34

death of your dad, how did that hit

9:36

you in the moment? Well,

9:38

I mean, it's the loss of

9:40

a parent at any age is

9:42

a trauma. You know, even as

9:44

an adult losing a parent is

9:46

a really profound

9:49

transformation. But when you're

9:51

so young, I feel

9:53

like it is even

9:55

more impactful because I

9:57

think the impact of

10:00

it oftentimes isn't apparent

10:02

until many, many years

10:04

later. Any

10:06

kind of childhood trauma often

10:08

lodges itself in the

10:10

psyche of the person who

10:12

experiences it, but it

10:14

doesn't always reveal itself. And

10:17

so for me, how

10:19

it affected me at

10:22

seven is very different from

10:24

how it affected me

10:26

at 25, 26, 27,

10:28

you know? I think in

10:30

a lot of ways it took

10:32

that long for the real impact of

10:34

that loss and that trauma to

10:36

reveal itself in my psyche and my

10:38

personality and my behavior. and

10:40

then I was able to start

10:43

to examine it and excavate it

10:45

and integrate it and separate it,

10:47

release it in a way. But

10:50

it was 40 years ago

10:52

and so the idea of

10:54

child psychology or the emotional

10:56

life of children and how

10:58

to create space for that

11:00

40 years ago, incredibly different

11:02

than it is today. Yeah.

11:04

So I was more, I

11:06

would say, by the adults

11:08

in my life, my family,

11:11

my mother in particular, but

11:13

also all the adults that were,

11:15

you know, in charge of my care, I

11:19

was, you know, they really considered how

11:21

to protect me from it more than

11:23

they considered how to include me in

11:25

it. And I think that

11:27

was the greatest mistake that

11:29

that the people around me made.

11:31

And I don't begrudge them

11:34

that I don't blame them for

11:36

that. They were just doing

11:38

well intentioned. Yeah, well -intentioned or,

11:40

you know, just aligned with the

11:42

social perspectives of that time. But

11:45

nonetheless, I think incredibly

11:47

detrimental to my well -being

11:49

and my evolution as a

11:51

person, unfortunately. But,

11:54

you know, luckily, I did find my

11:56

way into therapy and, you know, that's been

11:58

a huge part of my life and

12:00

I've done a lot of deep work. in

12:03

other ways as well in my

12:05

life to understand all that, you

12:07

know, and to not be defined

12:09

by it. Sure, but then I'm

12:11

in therapy as well. To

12:13

not be defined by a childhood

12:15

trauma is to first understand what

12:17

it is and acknowledge that it

12:19

was. You can't, sometimes

12:21

you want to skip that step and say,

12:23

I don't want to be defined by this

12:25

childhood trauma. So I'm just not going to

12:27

deal with it and pretend that it didn't impact

12:30

me. To not be defined, you really have

12:32

to go deep and work. Do

12:34

the work. Was that your experience too?

12:36

Completely. And that

12:38

experience was incremental. Before

12:41

I realized that it was

12:43

the trauma that was expressing itself,

12:45

there were years of my

12:47

life where I was sort of

12:49

engaged in just unconscious behaviors. That

12:52

once I got into a therapeutic process

12:54

I was able to look at. and

12:56

say, why am I driven in this

12:58

way? What drives me as a person?

13:02

And then you start to, I started

13:04

to uncover the origins of some of

13:06

that behavior. I've

13:08

been in therapy since I

13:10

was 26 years old, so

13:12

21 years. And

13:14

I've actually, I work now

13:16

with the therapist that I started working with

13:18

21 years ago. So I've known her for

13:21

a huge chunk of my life. And

13:24

there were many years where I

13:27

was like, why am I doing this?

13:30

Where is the relief? Where is

13:32

the insight? Where is the freedom, the

13:34

liberation of experience that I would

13:36

expect to be a result of

13:38

all of this work? And many

13:40

years where I just didn't feel

13:42

it, it was frustrating. And I'm so

13:44

grateful that I stuck with it,

13:46

because it's really only recently that

13:48

I feel like I've started to

13:51

see with a lot of clarity. the

13:53

value of the work and the investment

13:55

that I've made in my own personal evolution,

13:58

my own personal development. I

14:00

get that. Well, one thing

14:02

that you did find young, I

14:04

know you did, you did some drama

14:06

in high school, right? I did

14:09

do, yeah. Oh,

14:11

she's reaching for something. No,

14:15

there's actual footage. Is

14:20

that you? I

14:22

can't deny it. Little flat

14:24

little flat there Yeah, that's me

14:26

in a production of God's spell in

14:28

my oh My god, where did

14:30

you find that? That's horrifying. You just

14:32

scrubbed that clean of the internet

14:35

immediately. I'm good. I'm good at research

14:37

You are good. Is that like

14:39

my high school website or something like

14:41

that? It is not it is

14:43

not you gotta tell me on YouTube,

14:45

but I had to really really

14:47

dig deep all right well You

14:50

won't be able to find it by the time

14:52

your listeners might try. Yeah,

14:56

I did do drama. I mean drama

14:58

was really the you know, it became

15:00

started as an outlet, you know, I

15:02

had this you know, it's mom who

15:04

had to go to work, right? My

15:06

mom was a stay -at -home mom until

15:08

my father died and then immediately I

15:10

had to kind of go into the

15:12

workforce where she'd never really been for

15:15

many years and so that was the

15:17

other byproduct of that that unstructured alone

15:19

time is that I had a teacher

15:21

actually in the third grade who sent

15:23

me home with a note to my

15:25

mother one afternoon and it had with

15:27

it a note and an article clipped

15:29

out from the local paper about auditions

15:31

for this performance group in Pittsburgh where

15:33

I grew up. I had never performed

15:35

in my life. I had never, you know, and

15:38

this teacher saw something in me and said,

15:40

you know, I think he could really benefit from

15:42

this and she knew my situation at home

15:44

and, you know, my mom said,

15:46

oh, okay, you know, so this

15:48

thing happened that really obviously gave my

15:50

life a direction and a shape

15:53

and a meaning, which yeah, now looking

15:55

back on it, it's like, well,

15:57

it just makes so much sense. Yeah.

15:59

But what if that teacher hadn't

16:01

done that, you know, I don't

16:03

know that I ever would have found my

16:05

way to it or, you know, might have taken

16:08

longer, it might have been a different journey.

16:10

But that's an example for me of You

16:12

know that woman changed my life. Yeah,

16:14

totally her grades. You know, have you

16:16

talked to her this kind of quirky?

16:18

You know, I I know I've looked

16:21

her up, but her name was Janice

16:23

Smith Not a really easy name to

16:25

kind of yeah, yeah, so I've looked

16:27

her up and I haven't been successful

16:29

and I honestly I don't know I

16:31

mean that was 35 years ago, so

16:33

I don't know if she's even alive

16:35

anymore Yeah. Because she was probably in

16:38

her fifties then, you know, or maybe

16:40

late forties, early fifties. So she might

16:42

be. But anyway, regardless, just

16:44

this, you know, this she was

16:46

this very kind of unique and

16:48

slightly quirky woman. And,

16:50

you know, she really

16:52

singlehandedly changed my life.

16:55

We're having this conversation because of Dana

16:57

Smith. Yeah. So wherever she is, I

16:59

have deep gratitude for her and deep

17:01

gratitude for what she saw in me. So

17:04

drama did become this place where I could go,

17:06

and then not only was it a place where

17:08

I could go so that my mother knew where

17:11

I was and that I was safe in an

17:13

environment of people who were looking after me, but

17:15

I also got to explore this

17:17

emotional landscape within myself that I never

17:20

would have been able to do

17:22

had I not been given the opportunity.

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can listen to us online on the I

18:45

Heart Radio app. So

18:50

you go on to Carnegie Mellon

18:52

School of Drama where My

18:54

friend fellow off -the -cup

18:57

guest Josh Gad also went

18:59

so many famous Yeah, he's

19:01

great wonderful so many famous

19:04

alumni from Holly Hunter to Billy

19:06

Porter Ted Danson and your

19:08

stage cast mate Matt Boomer Did

19:10

you feel like you'd found

19:12

your people and your place in

19:14

college? Yeah, for sure.

19:16

Yeah, I mean, I'm from Pittsburgh,

19:18

so to choose to go to

19:21

Carnegie Mellon was also to choose

19:23

to stay into my in my

19:25

hometown for that part of my

19:27

developmental years, which I think really

19:29

served me personally. I auditioned

19:31

for four drama schools. Carnegie

19:34

Mellon, Juilliard, North Carolina School the

19:36

Arts, and Boston University. And so

19:38

the decision to stay in my

19:41

hometown was specific, you know, but

19:43

I Because I am from there,

19:45

I had had the opportunity to

19:47

see productions at Carnegie Mellon.

19:49

I knew people who were in

19:51

the program, friends of mine, people

19:54

that I had close connection to. And

19:56

I felt like I understood the program,

19:58

the style of the program at Carnegie. And

20:00

it was a pretty easy decision for

20:02

me. And I think staying in my hometown,

20:04

I didn't live at home, but being

20:06

in my hometown, not having the pressure of

20:08

learning a new city as well, allowed

20:11

me a kind of freedom in the program

20:13

that It was really wonderful. And yeah,

20:15

I loved it. I loved every minute of

20:17

drama school. And from there, do

20:19

you go to LA or New York? LA.

20:21

I thought I'd go to New York. But

20:23

when I graduated school, there was a lot more

20:25

interest in me as an actor in LA. And

20:28

so I made the unexpected decision

20:31

to move there in 1999 when I

20:33

graduated from Carnegie. And I lived

20:35

there for 12 years in LA. And

20:37

that's where I really, I

20:39

mean, those were the formative years. I mean,

20:41

those were the years of like, you

20:44

know, really working, waiting tables. You know,

20:46

I had a pretty traditional journey as

20:48

an actor. I waited tables for years

20:50

when I first got to LA and

20:52

just hit the, you know, pounding the

20:54

pavement, auditioning, auditioning, auditioning and trying to

20:57

catch a break, you know? Did the

20:59

roles come quickly or? No, no, no,

21:01

no, not at all. I mean, I

21:04

started... mean, it

21:06

was 1999 that I

21:08

moved to LA

21:10

and it was 2004.

21:14

It was five years before

21:16

I got my first

21:18

recurring role on something. That

21:20

was 24. Yeah, that

21:23

was 24. And

21:25

then it was another three

21:27

years after that, that like.

21:29

I got the job on

21:31

heroes, which really changed my

21:33

my life and my career.

21:35

So about eight years did. So

21:37

24, you were recurring. I think you were

21:40

in like 23 episodes. Like that that didn't

21:42

change. That wasn't a breakout for you.

21:44

It was a breakout for me being

21:46

able to earn a living as an

21:48

actor. You know, before that, it was

21:50

really about cobbling together guest stars, but

21:53

always waiting tables. Yeah. 24 was the

21:55

job that allowed me to not wait

21:57

tables anymore. Yeah. But it wasn't,

21:59

uh, I've said this before, it wasn't

22:01

a very enjoyable experience. I didn't feel

22:03

like I was playing a role that

22:05

anybody cared that much about. Um,

22:08

you know, audiences weren't, it wasn't, it

22:10

wasn't like a, there were sort

22:12

of tiers of characters on that show. And

22:14

it was definitely a lower tier, more peripheral

22:17

character, but I did learn a lot.

22:19

I learned a lot from that experience, you

22:21

know, and having a job on a show,

22:23

playing the same character over the course of

22:25

a season. You know, there were It was

22:27

a very, I think it was a very

22:29

valuable experience in some ways. And

22:31

then in other ways, it was

22:33

just a step in the direction

22:35

that I was obviously meant to

22:37

go. And I remember that period

22:39

after 24, I think the

22:41

next job that I got that was

22:43

significant was actually called Senatorius. It was

22:46

a pilot that we had done for

22:48

NBC and then NBC didn't pick it

22:50

up. And then it got sold to

22:52

VH1 and we did 10 episodes for

22:54

VH1. Yeah. There was a show, a

22:56

kind of hybrid, was a scripted comedy

22:58

series about Tori Spelling. Right. And she

23:00

played herself. And it was

23:02

quite fun. And actually, if you ask me,

23:04

it was very funny and ahead of

23:06

its time in a way. And there was

23:09

a period after 24, you

23:11

know, where I where I thought, OK, like I

23:13

made a living. I was able

23:15

to provide for myself, but not much more

23:17

than that. So there was a question after

23:19

24, like. Well, I have to go back to

23:21

waiting tables. Will I get another job? You

23:23

know, there were a period of time where

23:25

is this going to catch or was that

23:27

a fluke? You know, is this in my building

23:29

on something or was that, you know, what

23:31

it's going to be? So

23:34

senator has happened and then it

23:36

ended up getting canceled after the first

23:38

season. But the question is, like,

23:40

would I have been fulfilled creatively if

23:42

that had continued? I really enjoyed

23:44

the people. Um, Mike Chessler and

23:46

Chris Elbergini, who were the showrunners

23:48

on that show, were really talented and

23:50

really fun guys to work with.

23:52

And Tori was wonderful. I really loved

23:54

working with her too. But I

23:56

just saw maybe the potential limitations for

23:58

that kind of storytelling. And, and

24:00

I felt a sense of relief when,

24:02

when I was able to pursue

24:04

other opportunities, to be honest, and heroes

24:06

came right in and filled the

24:08

vacuum. Although after Senator Tori has ended

24:10

before heroes was the longest period

24:12

of time that I went without working.

24:14

Since before 24. Yeah. So actually

24:17

heroes came out of the time when

24:19

that questioning and that doubt Was

24:21

kind of at a height. the worst.

24:23

Yeah. It was it was challenging

24:25

But luckily because of the role of

24:27

heroes the place that I was

24:29

at in my life emotionally really served

24:31

me in going into that audition

24:33

because I was kind of like okay

24:35

like if if something doesn't happen

24:37

soon You know am I should I

24:39

keep doing this? Yeah, you know

24:41

And I was able to bring that

24:43

uncertainty and that self -doubt into the

24:45

audition for Heroes, and it kind

24:47

of helped. Yeah. And so

24:49

Heroes is huge, and then how

24:51

does Star Trek come to you?

24:54

Well, it was like hitting

24:56

the lottery twice in one year, really. Heroes

24:59

was this overnight juggernaut.

25:02

My first audition for Heroes

25:04

was the day that it

25:06

premiered. So I went in

25:08

for the audition in the

25:10

afternoon, and the show premiered

25:12

that night. Wow and was

25:14

immediately like a literal like

25:16

Phenomenon, right? Yeah, so between

25:18

my first audition and my callback, which

25:20

was like five days later or something

25:22

I Knew what I was auditioning for

25:24

right the character that I was auditioning

25:26

for didn't show up until episode eight

25:28

So I I was aware of the

25:30

stakes, you know when you're auditioning for

25:32

a new show or a pirate or

25:34

something You have no idea what it's

25:36

gonna be But then in the time

25:38

between my first edition and my second

25:41

edition, it became very clear what this

25:43

job was and that it could be

25:45

something really significant in my career. So

25:47

it added a pressure to my callback

25:49

that wouldn't have been there otherwise. But

25:51

yeah, I mean, heroes happened. And

25:54

for the first time in my career,

25:56

I found myself in a situation where I

25:59

was doing press. And

26:01

one of the questions I would get was,

26:04

do you have any. Other

26:06

things that you're interested in doing or

26:08

there any other projects that are exciting

26:10

to you that you're and I had

26:12

found out that they were doing a

26:14

reboot of Star Trek and Somebody had

26:16

sent me an email friend of mine

26:18

sent me an email and said it

26:21

with a link to a deadline article

26:23

or something about this JJ Abrams reboot

26:25

of Star Trek and they said you

26:27

would make such an amazing spark and

26:29

I thought wow like interesting I

26:31

was never a Star Trek fan growing up.

26:33

I mean, obviously I knew Leonard Nimoy, I knew

26:35

Spock, but it wasn't something that I was

26:37

like, but I was like, yeah, they're right. Actually,

26:40

I kind of kind of does attract. It

26:42

makes sense. You know, so I just started talking

26:44

about it in these interviews and then people

26:46

would say, you know, is there anything you're really

26:48

interested in? I'd say, you know, I heard

26:50

they're doing a Star Trek movie. I would love

26:52

to play Spock. It'd be so like planting

26:54

seeds. Got planting seeds. And then April Webster, who

26:56

was the casting director, saw an

26:58

article when I talked about it. And then, you

27:00

know, so they Ended up calling me

27:02

and I was the first person they saw

27:04

for that movie. I was the only

27:06

person they saw for that role Wow There

27:08

was something about it that just made

27:10

sense, you know So then it was like

27:12

yeah heroes led to that and then it

27:14

was a big question as to whether

27:16

or not to be able to do both

27:19

things You know or would I have to

27:21

leave heroes if I wanted to do

27:23

Star Trek and then the writer strike happens

27:25

and Because here because heroes was an ongoing

27:27

series obviously we had to shut down

27:29

production But because Star Trek was a movie

27:31

that had already been written, we were actually

27:33

able to film Star Trek during the

27:35

writer's strike. Wow. And so I didn't have

27:37

to miss any episodes of heroes in order

27:39

to do Star Trek. So this is

27:41

weird, kind of miraculous

27:43

experience. Yeah, turn of events, right?

27:45

And timing. Yeah. Margin

27:47

Call is one of the best movies

27:49

I've ever seen. I've watched it many, many

27:51

times because with my kind of anxiety,

27:53

that's what we do. We rewatch things that

27:56

we love for comfort. And. So

27:58

I could probably do that drop me

28:00

anywhere in the movie and I could probably

28:02

like that. No, I love it. I

28:05

love it. The cast is incredible. You produce

28:07

and and star in it. Is that

28:09

a special one for you because it was

28:11

like an independent film and you got

28:13

this amazing cast together. Yeah, it

28:15

was the first movie that I produced. And

28:18

yeah, one of my favorite

28:20

things to do as a

28:22

producer actually is to use

28:24

my relationships and use my

28:26

experience as an actor

28:28

to get people to do

28:30

things that I'm producing.

28:32

So I really do feel

28:34

like I was significantly

28:36

instrumental in assembling that cast.

28:38

And I loved that

28:40

experience, you know, like the

28:42

adrenaline of going after

28:44

people at that caliber and

28:46

getting a Jeremy Irons

28:48

and a Demi Moore, Stanley

28:51

Tucci. And it was

28:53

a really exciting. time

28:55

and I do feel grateful that

28:57

I was able to kind of work

28:59

through my own adrenaline to believe

29:01

in this project and believe in it

29:03

enough that people at that level

29:05

also believed in it and came in

29:07

to work with us on it

29:09

was really special and the experience of

29:11

filming it was really exciting. I

29:13

moved to New York to do that

29:15

and then I went right into

29:17

Angels in America which I did the

29:19

first New York production of Angels

29:21

since the original in 2010 at the

29:23

Signature Theatre. And so I

29:25

literally I went right from filming margin

29:27

call and then I had like a

29:29

week off and then I went into

29:31

rehearsal games in America It was just

29:34

such a wonderful Creative time and I

29:36

just felt so helpful for those experiences,

29:38

you know, that's a lot of work

29:40

and Exciting work, but also intense angels

29:42

is an intense show and it is

29:44

yeah, it was so that that's when

29:46

I met my best though is when

29:49

I'm that busy and that challenged by

29:51

the work itself because I

29:53

feel like that's when I

29:55

don't have any choice but to

29:57

rise the occasion and meet

29:59

them. Yeah. Exactly. I'm the

30:01

same way. And I didn't know I was

30:03

that way until my therapist told me

30:05

I was that way. But I don't know.

30:07

I also loved Snowden and Glenn. Glenn's

30:10

a friend of mine. You play

30:12

Glenn Greenwald. You were

30:14

terrific. But was that a tricky one? Because

30:16

you're not only playing, you're playing a real

30:18

person. It's based on real events and a

30:20

very controversial story. Yeah, at the time, like

30:22

there would have been more than one way

30:24

to tell that story. Yeah. And

30:27

you're playing an

30:29

integral integral person in

30:31

that story. Yes.

30:34

It was an integral person in

30:36

in the story, obviously, and

30:38

in the in the real life story. I

30:40

would say it was less integral

30:43

to the film. Is that

30:45

track for you having watched it?

30:47

Yeah, completely, because yes, completely. The

30:49

characters of Glenn and Laura Poitras. Right.

30:52

Were more devices in the

30:54

movie Snowden. They were more

30:57

the portal into the examination

30:59

of the character himself, played

31:01

by Joseph Gordon -Levitt. But

31:04

I didn't feel like we came in at

31:06

the very end of that shoot. They had

31:08

been filming for months, and Joe Gordon -Levitt

31:10

and Shailene Woodley, with whom I'm now doing

31:12

a play on Broadway, actually. But

31:14

we came in the last month of that,

31:16

I would say. The great thing

31:18

about it was we filmed in

31:21

where we're with Frank, Frankfurt,

31:23

Munich. We were in Germany. I

31:25

can't remember. I think we were in Munich. OK.

31:28

And we filmed some

31:31

of it there. But then

31:33

we went to Hong Kong. We actually

31:35

went to the Mira Hotel, which is where

31:37

the hotel was. Oh, wow. I was

31:39

going to ask if that was really there.

31:41

Yeah, where we were filmed and stayed

31:43

in the actual hotel. Wow. Yeah. And while

31:45

we were filming. It was

31:47

shortly after Citizen 4 came out,

31:49

the documentary that Laura Portres

31:51

made. And we ran

31:53

into her in the

31:55

lobby, in the elevator of

31:57

the hotel. She was

31:59

there because she was doing a screening

32:02

of Citizen 4 and she was staying at

32:04

the, I mean it was so meta

32:06

and so surreal and we ended up like

32:08

having dinner with Laura Portres. It

32:10

was really an amazing time and

32:12

to work with Oliver Stone and

32:14

to be in Hong Kong for

32:16

three weeks, living in Hong Kong

32:18

was really amazing. And, you know,

32:21

to work with Tom Wilkinson and

32:23

Melissa Leo was it was really

32:25

special. But I don't feel

32:27

like that doesn't feel like my movie.

32:29

Do you know what I mean?

32:31

Yeah, I do because it's not about

32:33

Glenn. It's not. And it's not,

32:35

you know, it was it was it

32:37

was. really interesting and really fulfilling. And

32:40

I'm so glad to get to

32:42

work with Oliver Stone to get

32:44

to know him. Anyway,

32:46

it was really quite special, but

32:49

not so impactful, I would say,

32:51

in the overall sort of view

32:53

of my career. But yeah. What

32:56

happened with The Slap? I

32:58

really loved that series. And again,

33:00

had such a great cast,

33:02

including my very dear friend, Tommy

33:04

Sadoski. Why didn't... I love

33:06

Tommy. Why didn't that work? I

33:08

thought it worked. Well, I mean,

33:10

I think it worked in some ways. It

33:13

was never meant to be an ongoing

33:15

series. It was always only intended to

33:17

be a limited series. OK. But it

33:19

was at a time when limited series

33:21

hadn't yet made their mark on our

33:23

industry the way they certainly have. And

33:25

that was also 10 years ago. was

33:27

2014. So I

33:30

think it's just a different world then that

33:32

it is now in terms of limited series.

33:34

And it was also on NBC. So

33:36

I think sometimes, you know, networks

33:38

weren't doing limited series really at

33:40

all. Right. And I

33:42

think audiences were a little confused

33:44

about what it was or what

33:46

it was supposed to be. It

33:48

didn't really find an amplifying kind

33:50

of audience, but it was great

33:52

fun. So great. Great story,

33:55

great cast. Working with, yeah,

33:57

good people involved in it. Peter

33:59

Sarsgard, like you said, Tommy. Yeah. And

34:02

Uma Thurman and Yeah.

34:05

There were great, you know, Tandy

34:07

Newton Mr.

34:10

Garber came in. Yeah, yeah, it

34:12

was really, it was a good experience, but

34:14

again, you know, one of those things

34:16

that was just kind of meant to be

34:18

a bridge to the next thing. I

34:21

mean, I really think of my career in

34:23

that way, which is that every experience

34:25

I have is informed by the experiences that

34:27

I've had that led me to it.

34:29

Right. And I'm not somebody who kind of

34:31

methodically plans what I'm going to do. I'm

34:34

somebody I think who's much more open to what

34:36

presents itself to me, and then I move in the

34:38

direction that I think makes the most sense for

34:40

that moment. And this lap was

34:42

an example of that. I thought, well, this

34:44

is really cool. And yeah, maybe it'll generate something

34:46

that it didn't end up generating, but that's

34:48

OK. Hey,

34:58

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36:13

Dave and Jimmy. We're not going to steal your

36:15

car. So

36:19

when I heard. the boys in the

36:21

band was getting a revival on Broadway.

36:23

I bought tickets like that day, like

36:25

the minute they went on sale. Yeah,

36:28

because. Love

36:30

that play. I love the story.

36:32

Not only was it so entertaining,

36:34

you guys were all so good,

36:36

but it was important. Yeah, that's

36:38

an important play and an important

36:40

story work. Yeah, I agree. Seminal.

36:43

And yeah, I mean, I

36:45

were roughly the same age I grew up

36:47

in in a professional ballet. So I

36:49

always felt like I grew up in a

36:51

in a gay community. Every boy and

36:53

man I knew in that world was gay.

36:55

And I had lost ballet directors to

36:57

AIDS at a very young age. So all

36:59

of this, this was my world. And

37:01

that was what I knew. And that was

37:03

normal. That was my normal world inside

37:05

this community. And so when things like that

37:07

and Angels in America came out, I

37:10

and rent, like this was someone

37:12

was telling stories about my world.

37:15

And I, even though I was

37:17

an outsider and I was I was an outsider in the

37:19

world, but I was in the world. These were my friends.

37:22

Sure. And so they were really important to me. What did

37:24

it mean to you to get to be in The

37:26

Boys in the Band? Well, I think

37:28

it was the 50th anniversary of the

37:30

play. The play had never been on

37:33

Broadway. Mark Crawley, the playwright, was still

37:35

alive. And to watch

37:37

him, I think the most

37:39

meaningful part of that experience was

37:41

to watch him have it. and to

37:43

watch him be able to enjoy

37:45

it and to watch him win a

37:47

Tony Award for Best Revival of

37:49

a Play. That was so special because

37:51

he had gone 50 years, I

37:54

think, being defined by that play. He

37:56

never really, he wrote other

37:58

things and was an incredibly

38:00

talented writer, but I think

38:03

he never really was able

38:05

to evolve beyond the association

38:07

with that most important work.

38:09

And so I think as

38:11

a result, it was

38:13

especially wonderful to watch and be

38:15

so celebrated for it. You know,

38:17

watch him have such a such

38:20

a successful Broadway production of that

38:22

play. It was really, really great,

38:24

really great. Oh, it was

38:26

so good. I mean, just my feeling

38:28

like Angels of America, Boys in the

38:30

Band, Last Menagerie, who's

38:32

afraid of Virginia Woolf, a

38:34

lot of classic American

38:36

plays, you know, really,

38:39

really seminal kind of formidable

38:41

works that have been

38:43

largely around for decades and

38:45

have very strong presence

38:47

in the theater world. So,

38:50

you know, that felt like it was

38:52

in line with those works. And I felt

38:54

really grateful to do it. And I

38:56

did it with like so many of my

38:58

dear friends. You know, we mentioned Matt

39:00

Boomer, Andrew Randall, Jim Parsons, you know, really

39:02

wonderful people who I've known and We

39:04

spent time with socially, but that was the

39:07

first time we got to work together.

39:09

We had a true blast. As I mentioned,

39:11

I didn't realize that my

39:14

friends weren't welcome everywhere

39:16

until I got a little

39:18

older. And that

39:20

was really painful. And there's

39:22

been tremendous progress over the past.

39:24

This is 40 years ago,

39:26

you know, but that progress feels

39:28

precarious right now. Does

39:30

it feel precarious to you?

39:33

I mean, I think precarious is

39:35

generous. I mean, I

39:37

think it feels in peril.

39:39

I mean, it's not

39:41

about precariousness. I think

39:44

what we're about to

39:46

witness in the coming

39:48

months is absolutely terrifying,

39:50

you know, for so

39:52

many Americans that have

39:54

enjoyed at least a

39:56

modicum of freedom and

39:58

a modicum of equality, and

40:00

I think we're about

40:02

to see that dismantled systematically

40:04

in every single way

40:06

that these, you know, extremist

40:09

pseudo politicians are able

40:11

to. And that is really

40:13

scary. What we have as

40:15

a country agreed is the way

40:17

to move forward, I think is very

40:19

bleak. And my question is, you

40:21

know, how extreme and how quickly are

40:23

we going to see the impact

40:25

of that. You're like, do we get

40:27

out of here? Is it time

40:29

to flee? Do I sell my apartment?

40:31

Do I move to London? Do

40:33

I do something else? And

40:36

then the more I thought about it,

40:38

the more I thought now is not the

40:40

time to run. Now is the time

40:42

to stay and dig in and be invested

40:44

in who I am and what I

40:46

believe in. It's never been more important than

40:48

now. But I also allow

40:50

for the possibility that things go to

40:52

hell in a handbasket pretty right quick

40:54

and then Getting out

40:57

may be the only option. Yeah, honestly

40:59

because I do feel like there's a

41:01

version of it Where it's less intense

41:03

than we expect and it's just a

41:05

little bit But there's also a version

41:07

of it where it's worse than we

41:09

could imagine way worse right, you know

41:11

And that and that not even the

41:13

administration or the political element of it

41:16

But the but the people that are

41:18

fired up and empowered and emboldened and

41:20

hateful that that is that is something

41:22

that that I do have some Legitimate

41:24

concern about I would say You know? Yeah.

41:27

I mean, for my own

41:29

mental health, I've had to

41:31

think about, can I keep

41:33

covering this? Because it's not

41:36

enjoyable. I did it.

41:38

I've done it for a long time

41:40

now. And it's messed with my mental health.

41:43

But like you, I also think, well,

41:45

now is when I need to

41:47

work the most. And, you know, now

41:49

is when I need to be

41:51

on the front lines, on the front

41:53

row of history. doing

41:55

what I do, but I go back and

41:57

forth too because it's just a lot. It's a

41:59

lot. And I think we have to allow

42:02

ourselves that grace. Like, I think,

42:04

you know, this is a time

42:06

that there's more uncertainty in our

42:08

social fabric and our political infrastructure

42:10

than there's ever been in my

42:12

lifetime, our lifetime. Yeah. Also, I

42:14

think, you know, as a civilization,

42:16

not just as Americans, not just

42:19

as Democrats or Republicans or white

42:21

people or not or gay or

42:23

straight or whatever. As a

42:25

civilization, we are

42:27

on the precipice

42:30

of unprecedented transformation. And

42:32

I think when you consider the factors

42:34

of climate change, and

42:36

I think on top of that,

42:38

you layer the element of artificial intelligence

42:41

and the ways in which we

42:43

are already divesting ourselves of the experience

42:45

of being human. And we're

42:47

inviting these machines into

42:49

the conversation with no regard

42:51

for or awareness of

42:54

the long -term implications of

42:56

that. We're already inviting

42:58

chat GPT into our

43:00

experience to the degree that

43:02

people write letters, essays, do

43:05

homework. So

43:08

imagine when that technology evolves enough

43:10

to not only intercept our conversations, but

43:12

to commandeer them and take them

43:14

in a direction that we might not

43:16

even intend for them to go.

43:18

So I think when you factor these

43:20

two elements into this inflection point

43:22

of the human experience, there's not one

43:25

single person on the face of

43:27

the planet who has ever experienced what

43:29

we're about to experience. And I

43:31

guess the last time that this happened

43:33

was probably the Industrial Revolution, which,

43:35

yes, it changed our lives, but

43:37

it didn't change our lives to the

43:39

degree that there was experiences that

43:42

we were completely unable to comprehend the

43:44

way that I think we are

43:46

now. So

43:48

that to me is like how we

43:50

move toward that I think is really

43:52

going to define a lot of things

43:54

and it's just shocking to me that

43:56

we've chosen to move toward it with

43:58

such small thinking and such self -reflective

44:00

thinking and such misogynistic thinking. You

44:02

know that to me is the

44:04

thing that is so the message that

44:06

this sends to people that you

44:08

know that this old school old boy

44:11

network of doing things is still

44:13

what we're perpetuating is such a tragedy

44:15

to me. That's the biggest tragedy

44:17

of this. Well,

44:19

the pendulum in politics usually

44:21

swings back, so we might

44:23

get a reprieve. Maybe those

44:25

midterms will help us re

44:27

-institute some of the guardrails

44:29

that we are gonna be

44:31

without for the next two

44:33

years, at least. Yeah, we'll

44:35

see. I like your optimism. Okay,

44:37

let's, before we get

44:39

to our... Lightning round at the

44:41

end. Let's talk about nicer

44:43

things brilliant minds the show premiered

44:45

in the fall of 2024

44:47

that's right rave reviews Were you

44:50

excited to go back to

44:52

network TV and and back on

44:54

NBC? I was I was

44:56

really excited to work with these

44:58

people to tell These stories,

45:00

you know the show, the character

45:02

I play is inspired by

45:04

Oliver Sacks, the renowned neurologist and

45:06

prolific author. Yes. And to

45:08

get to dive into his world,

45:10

he was such an incredible

45:12

man and fascinating contributor to the

45:14

fields of medicine and literature. And,

45:17

you know, he was endlessly curious

45:19

about the human mind and consciousness.

45:22

And yeah, so I was really excited.

45:24

And yeah, to go back to

45:26

NBC, to be honest, was was really

45:29

a welcomed and unexpected kind of

45:31

pleasure. I mean, Lisa

45:33

Katz, who is the current

45:35

president NBC, is a truly

45:37

wonderful person and boss. I've

45:39

really enjoyed getting to know

45:42

her. I feel really supported by

45:44

the network. And so yeah, it felt

45:46

really nice to go home in a cheesy

45:48

way, but it's true. It's where my

45:50

career started. And so to come back at

45:52

this midpoint, feels like a

45:54

really nice touchstone. And interestingly, just a

45:56

little anecdote, which I've mentioned before about

45:58

heroes, if anybody watched it, the catalyst

46:00

of the series, I mean, if

46:02

anybody didn't watch it, the catalyst of

46:04

the series is that a solar eclipse

46:06

takes place in the pilot episode. And

46:09

in the course of this solar eclipse,

46:11

it awakens people all around the world

46:13

to powers they didn't know that they

46:15

possessed. And so then it, that's

46:17

the catalyst of the story. And so

46:19

now all these 15 years later, back

46:21

on NBC, back on a show, you

46:23

know, now number one of the call

46:25

sheets. So there's a little bit more

46:28

of an investment from the beginning,

46:30

right? I was a part of this

46:32

show from very early on in the

46:34

development process. Yeah. We started filming the

46:36

first season of Brilliant Minds on April

46:38

8th, which was the day of the

46:40

solar eclipse. Wow. And so

46:42

this kind of full circle

46:44

experience doing this show, you

46:46

know, I've It's not lost

46:49

on me. I feel like I ignore those kinds

46:51

of things and so it's been a nice reminder

46:53

that like this is right where I'm meant to

46:55

be right now Yeah, oh, that's great. Okay.

46:57

Well, we're gonna do

46:59

you can you can see

47:01

Zach and brilliant minds.

47:03

He's also on Broadway now

47:05

in Cult of Love

47:07

Mm -hmm. Okay, let's do

47:09

our lightning round to end

47:12

our interview great The

47:14

first few questions are something

47:16

of a quiz Okay,

47:18

how many people have played

47:20

Spock? Okay, let's

47:22

see here I'm

47:24

gonna say Four Okay

47:27

So it's there's

47:29

nine but because but

47:31

six of those

47:34

nine six of those

47:36

nine Or played

47:38

like as a child

47:40

played Spock like

47:43

as a very young

47:45

Spock because there's

47:47

the baby. Are you counting the

47:49

baby? Yes. So

47:51

you're getting the baby. I was

47:54

counting also the little guy that

47:56

played the younger version of me, obviously

47:59

Leonard and me and Ethan

48:01

Pack. Exactly. So that's five. But

48:03

who are the other four? So

48:06

it's Carl Steven, Vadia

48:08

Patenza, Steven Manley, Joe Davis,

48:10

Jacob Cogan and Liam Hughes.

48:13

I see. So Jacob was like the younger version

48:16

of me. And then there was a baby in

48:18

mind and then me and Leonard. So those are

48:20

four in my world. Yes. Ethan. And

48:22

then are those other names people that were

48:24

on like the original series? Yes, as a

48:26

child. Yeah. That played young Spock. Yeah. So

48:28

it's tricky, but I mean, four is a

48:30

good answer. All right. Angels

48:32

in America or boys in the band? Honestly,

48:41

it's tough. I

48:43

think I'm going to say

48:45

Angels in America because

48:47

it was it was just

48:49

a it's boys in

48:51

the band is wonderful and

48:53

and instrumental seminal work

48:55

in terms of the evolution

48:58

of LGBTQ plus storytelling.

49:00

Yeah. But Angels in America

49:02

is a transcendent examination

49:04

of the human experience that

49:06

relates not only to

49:08

the experience of being a

49:10

member of the LGBTQ

49:12

plus community, but also the

49:14

ruthlessness and the, you

49:16

know, the unscrupulousness of politics.

49:19

And I think it's

49:21

just a more

49:23

complex and resonant. Bigger

49:25

story. Yeah, bigger story,

49:28

more, more kind of. Yeah,

49:30

just just a little bit

49:32

more substantive. Yeah. In the

49:34

in the doing of it. I

49:36

get that. The band is substantive in

49:38

its place in. history. Right. Yeah.

49:40

I'm just gonna leave it at that.

49:42

Yeah. Yeah. Um, Randalls

49:45

or Parsons? You

49:48

can't ask me that. I

49:50

can. I adore them both so

49:52

much. I couldn't possibly choose

49:54

between them. They're both amazing, talented,

49:56

generous, funny, wonderful guys, hilarious.

49:58

Both of them. I just saw

50:00

Jim in our town on

50:02

Broadway do beautiful work and I

50:04

respect them both so much.

50:07

Andrew's an author and Jim is

50:09

so talented. And I love

50:11

them both. I have to have

50:13

them both. I have to

50:15

have them both. OK. That's an

50:17

answer. That is an answer.

50:19

OK. Your favorite movie of all

50:21

time. You know, Oliver

50:23

Stone, when I asked him this question, got

50:25

actually angry with me. Oh. Because he

50:27

was like, how could you ever ask me

50:29

to narrow it down? know, there's so

50:31

many. I was like, OK, Oliver, kind of

50:33

just asking what you were into. So

50:36

I have, you know, I have a list

50:38

of movies that I love, but there are

50:40

two that I love to go back to.

50:42

One is Magnolia, Paul Thomas Anderson's Magnolia. Great

50:44

movie. Just such a fantastic film. The performances,

50:47

the structure of it. Also, The

50:50

Talented Mr. Ripley. That's

50:52

a perfect film. really phenomenal film. Perfect. And

50:54

yeah, so those are two of my, I

50:56

made a list of like my top 10

50:58

and those are, those are both on there.

51:00

Those are both great. And

51:02

spirited away to the Miyazaki

51:04

film. I love it as

51:06

well. Okay, and the final

51:08

question is, and this is

51:10

very important to me spiritually, culturally,

51:15

when is iced coffee season? Year

51:18

-round. That is the correct answer, sir.

51:20

That is the correct answer. I

51:22

mean, I live in New York City and

51:24

I get iced coffee in the, you know,

51:26

dead of January. Same. Year -round. Same.

51:30

Well, thank you. This was really fun. It was

51:32

a real pleasure. Thank you for having me.

51:34

It's really nice to see you. I hope that

51:36

will you be able to come see the

51:38

play? Oh, for sure. For sure. Okay, cool. Off

51:42

the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts

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51:47

your host, Essie Cup. Editing and sound

51:49

designed by Derek Clements, our executive

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51:55

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