0:33

our guest today. It's currently sales development

0:35

lead for small and medium businesses at Aspire.

0:38

Aspire is self described as the all

0:40

in one finance operating system for businesses

0:43

in Southeast Asia. Aspire was followed

0:45

in 2018. and so far he has

0:47

raised nearly 200 million from

0:49

venture capital firms, including the famous

0:51

Y Combinator. Before Aspire,

0:54

our guest was at Fave group where she spent

0:56

collectively around five and a half years at

0:59

her roles included leading business development

1:01

and partner operations. And if that

1:03

doesn't sound like a lot on her plate, our guest

1:06

has also been busy starting her own fashion

1:08

brand, FA Man, which blends

1:10

work, appropriate attire with activewear

1:13

elements and materials. She's

1:15

also the co-founder of alo, a mobile

1:17

pop-up bar, service for events. She's

1:19

also been a freelance personal trainer, and

1:22

she probably has one other

1:24

thousand side hustles that she's not told me yet. Our

1:27

guest is a wine drinker, uh,

1:29

a passionate fan of dancing and fitness

1:32

and is at a grand age of 26.

1:35

Um, if you're joining us on a podcast

1:37

where you can't see her, she also

1:39

spots ping and blue hair, so

1:42

she's easily recognizable. Welcome

1:45

and thank you for joining us, BIA. Hey.

1:48

Hi. So,

1:50

uh, as how spot on

1:53

is my introduction of you?

1:56

Uh, yeah, it's okay. good.

1:59

Anything more you wanna add at this

2:00

point in time? Uh, no, I

2:02

think that's fine.

2:04

before we start talking about, uh, what

2:06

you do, uh, you have any interesting or

2:08

funny story about selves that you wanna share with the audience?

2:12

Yep, sure. So I think I'm gonna

2:14

share a story about how I uncovered

2:16

my love for sales. So

2:19

I uncovered that when I was

2:21

about nine to 10 year old,

2:23

and it came about from an obsession with

2:25

collecting CDs. You

2:28

know, I, I was like a fan

2:30

girl, right? For, uh, celebrities

2:32

like Fey and Hype Bon Jovi. And

2:34

I just wanted to collect like all the albums, but

2:36

it was kind of unaffordable for someone

2:39

like myself at night with 10, with

2:41

a bucket money of like $2 a day.

2:43

So, what I did was that I

2:46

decided to, buy

2:48

like celebrity cards, like those bucket decks,

2:51

um, from comics collection at $2

2:53

for like 50 over cards. Mm-hmm.

2:55

And I found a group of friends

2:57

in school whom were also

2:59

fan girls. So I sold them each

3:01

card at $2 each. So from each

3:03

deck of cards I bought at

3:06

$2, I sold it for about like

3:09

a profit of almost like $90.

3:12

Yeah. 90 of a dollars. So I think that was when

3:14

I uncovered that, hey, I could actually like, earn

3:16

money from like buying random

3:18

stuff and finding a group of interest at

3:20

people. and, you know, fulfilling

3:22

my obsession of collecting CDs

3:25

And, and this interest

3:27

or this discovery of, uh, your passion for sales

3:29

has kind of like been demonstrated, uh,

3:31

and it is evident in your choice of career path,

3:34

right? Yep. and,

3:36

um, tell me more about currently what you do

3:39

and aspire.

3:40

So what I do at Aspire is that I look after

3:42

the sales development team for

3:45

focusing on small, medium businesses. What

3:47

that means is that, uh, my team looks

3:49

after the prospecting,

3:52

efforts of the company. So we

3:54

look out for good fit clients who would, benefit

3:56

from the, from our solution.

4:00

Got it. and what does Aspire

4:02

do? I mean, I described it, but maybe you,

4:04

and tell us more about Aspire, now that you're inside

4:07

Aspire.

4:08

Sure. aspires are all in one

4:10

finance operating team system whereby we

4:12

combine the core finance features

4:15

for business owners to have easy access

4:17

to, uh, where they can also manage

4:19

and have visibility of their finance

4:22

tasks, better.

4:24

And why is what is expired doing

4:26

important? What kind of problems is expired

4:28

solving right now?

4:30

So we help these business

4:32

achieve, uh, finance excellence

4:35

in a quicker and more efficient manner

4:38

because running a business, and

4:40

there are many things in which a business needs to

4:42

pay for. And imagine needing

4:45

to reconcile things manually,

4:48

that's where time consuming. So

4:50

with Aspire, we eliminate all

4:52

of that. We allow them to have, uh,

4:55

quick insights to their fine company

4:57

financials in a click off a button.

5:00

Got it.

5:01

And you give us an overview of what you, what, what you're doing

5:03

for your role. Um, maybe you can tell us the,

5:05

or can tell the audience what, what constitutes,

5:08

um, your day-to-day task, uh, at

5:10

your work.

5:12

Uh, on a day-to-day basis. basis, would

5:14

be a lot of like, research on the

5:16

kind of segments that would

5:18

benefit from the use of Aspire.

5:20

I also, um, get involved

5:22

in like, Some

5:24

calls, focus groups to understand the,

5:28

uh, segment and industry better so

5:30

that we can have, uh, real

5:33

like case studies or actually kind

5:35

of like, confirming the guest

5:38

use cases. Cause definitely,

5:40

you know, when we have a product, we think that it sells for

5:42

A, B and C, but it may

5:44

not be the same across every industry.

5:47

So having that deeper understanding,

5:49

um, with these, business owners

5:52

will confirm our insights. And from

5:54

there I strategize different kind of

5:56

outreach and approach from my team to

5:58

adopt. So my day-to-day

6:00

also involves a lot of, um, coaching

6:03

and, uh, daily support to

6:05

my direct, uh, reportees.

6:09

Got it. so it sounds like a lot of scoping,

6:11

making sure that there's a right product use

6:13

case for your segmented customers, or

6:15

even finding out more about the product and

6:18

making sure and doing more research on which

6:20

target segment of the customers would feed

6:22

your product better. Right? Yep.

6:26

now tell us, uh, I'm, I'm curious

6:28

about your time at Faith. So,

6:31

uh, I'm a big fan of Faith. Uh,

6:33

in fact, faith came

6:36

later in the picture, right? I think I was

6:38

a huge fan in 2016, uh, on

6:40

kfi. I thought that was quite,

6:42

uh, revolution, in least how fitness

6:44

classes, uh, being, uh, done,

6:47

uh, in all distributed in Singapore.

6:50

and I think you started your time with Faith,

6:52

uh, at kfi. Of course, KFI was then acquired

6:54

by Faith. tell us more about your journey

6:56

then, at least your first role at Faith,

6:59

at kfi.

7:01

So, I, KFI was my

7:03

first full time. Um, job,

7:05

I was, um, blessed

7:08

to be offered a role even

7:10

before I graduated from Yala Technique.

7:12

Um, and that was when

7:15

I was helping them with, um,

7:17

you know, with partnerships and,

7:20

um, marketing initiatives to

7:22

help them acquire more customers.

7:25

Um, but, but then my

7:27

role soon became like any startup,

7:29

right? We started kind of like get our hands dirty across

7:32

like different, um, projects

7:34

and, uh, responsibilities.

7:36

Um, I also,

7:38

I was also involved in the sales process

7:41

very quickly, and I began

7:43

helping them acquire, uh,

7:46

merchants under the

7:47

platform. By merchants you mean? Uh, like

7:49

gym operators? Uh, yes.

7:51

Gym operator, gas

7:52

studios. Yes, correct. Uh, at a point

7:54

in time, k also, um, moving

7:56

towards more, like more of a lifestyle

7:58

app. So we are also reaching out to like beauty

8:00

and food, um, merchants.

8:03

Nice. for those who are not

8:06

old enough to know what cafe it is in Singapore,

8:08

so basically it was a hundred dollars or $99

8:11

saying dollars, uh, subscription. basically

8:13

it's a class pass model. you could,

8:15

at the time when it launched, I think, MK

8:18

to acquire market share, you had a very generous

8:20

package for $99 or a hundred dollars

8:22

per month, you're able to get unlimited

8:24

classes that's available on the app. Um,

8:27

and I thought that that really changed the game, uh,

8:29

for me. And of course as the business mature,

8:32

uh, there were certain, Restrictions after

8:34

that. Like you can't go for the same studio

8:37

or class, uh, three times or external

8:39

times in a month. Uh, but I thought

8:42

that was a good way that solves problem

8:44

for the gym owners, um,

8:46

to make sure that they get their, uh,

8:49

facilities being filled up. At

8:51

the same time, it gives people who are new to

8:53

fitness a chance to try the different studios. I

8:56

thought it was a very brilliant business model. But of course back then,

8:58

uh, KFA was not the only player.

9:00

There was also passport Asia, right?

9:03

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Got it. I

9:06

think, I mean, to the audience I've described

9:09

vk, it's also, uh, a fan of fitness.

9:11

So I guess joining KFI was

9:13

kind of natural, right? It was something that

9:15

you're passionate about,

9:17

correct.

9:17

That's

9:18

right. tell us a bit about you.

9:20

Uh, at the time when it was a first full-time

9:23

job at K Fit and it

9:25

was a startup, how was it, like,

9:27

how hectic was it? Like, um,

9:29

what were your memories of working in a startup? Uh,

9:31

and I think that time was quite early stage for

9:34

K Fit, so, so

9:36

give us, give the audience a glimpse of

9:38

your day-to-day work.

9:41

It was just a team of four of us in Singapore,

9:44

and I think

9:46

every day is, is just a hustle,

9:49

like getting things done

9:51

and, um, getting our calendars

9:53

really filled and with that being my first

9:56

job, I was extremely,

9:59

like, in love

10:01

with my job. Like I just really wanted to

10:04

do very well and I

10:06

feel happy, uh,

10:09

like I find great joy in

10:11

what I do every day. Um, so

10:14

like the job became

10:16

quickly, uh, part of

10:19

my almost everyday life.

10:21

Yeah, so like even during

10:23

the weekends I would, um, think

10:25

about like opportunities which we

10:28

could potentially, um, you

10:30

know, capture. And, um,

10:33

I would also happily like, you

10:35

know, follow up with certain things I need to do, uh,

10:38

for work. Yeah. This isn't healthy

10:40

in a long run, like, especially like now,

10:42

but, um, it was a good

10:45

memory. Like, it, it is definitely not

10:47

something I regret. I enjoyed what I did

10:49

back then.

10:51

I a hundred percent relate to that. Yeah. Um,

10:54

it's a small team. You as a young startup, uh,

10:56

you get a cover more ground than, than what your

10:58

JD initially says. So I understand

11:00

that because you're passionate about it. And za

11:04

a certain startup at the early stage would also

11:06

attract a certain kind of personality of people

11:09

to the role, to the team. So za

11:11

there was a. I'm guessing chemistry

11:14

within the team. Uh, I think that help

11:16

as well. and I wanna ask, like it was the first job,

11:18

like it was a startup, it was quite unknown.

11:20

No one knew whether, if it was survive, right? It's

11:22

most startups are. what

11:25

did your family and friends say about you joining a

11:27

early stage startup?

11:29

There was some concerns about, you

11:31

know, this unconventional part of,

11:34

um, you know, working for a company with, without

11:37

that kind of stability as

11:39

per working with a bank or

11:42

like some government job. So,

11:45

uh, there were concerns, but

11:47

to me it

11:49

was just noise. It was more of like, it

11:52

was advice, but it was also noise

11:54

because those were distractions

11:56

to what I can potentially achieve and what I

11:58

can potentially learn. So

12:00

I just went ahead with what I felt was best

12:03

for me.

12:04

How do you get to know about

12:05

the job at K Fit? so

12:08

I, back then I was very

12:10

involved in the fitness industry. I competed

12:12

in body building, et cetera, and,

12:15

uh, was often approached

12:17

for fitness related geeks. So,

12:20

um, K FIT approached me for,

12:22

as a ambassador to promote

12:25

the app. So I was given a free subscription

12:27

and I was given to, uh,

12:29

promo court to kind of like promote. Um,

12:32

and months later, the

12:34

marketing manager at K Fit reached out

12:36

to me, uh, um, and asked

12:38

me if I, if I would be keen to explore a

12:40

full-time role. Nice. That was very nice

12:43

when I was still in school. Nice.

12:46

I think, to the audience out here who,

12:48

who are probably still schooling or

12:50

early stage of a career, I think there's an example of like,

12:52

you doing what you love, uh, in your own free time.

12:55

Uh, and then somehow the opportunity

12:57

came to you because you were busy doing

13:00

what you love. Right. And it's right in

13:02

line with your interest anyway. and

13:04

tell me more about your,

13:07

when you move up the ranks, I know you joined

13:09

K Fit I think for a year, a year

13:11

plus, and then you did something else and

13:13

then you came back to Faith. So tell me about

13:15

after that when you came back to Faith, how

13:18

has things

13:18

change? When

13:21

I came back to Faith, um,

13:24

that was when faith

13:26

acquired Groupon as well, so there

13:28

were like big, there were like some organizational

13:30

changes and also the importance to

13:32

launch, uh, new products. So

13:35

I came at that point in time whereby it was pretty exciting.

13:37

I was in the early team of like acquiring

13:39

customers onto the faith pay platform,

13:42

adopting faith pay solution and. Uh,

13:45

not, not long later,

13:47

I was, uh, tasked to meet

13:49

a team of interns

13:52

to help like speed up the acquisition.

13:55

No, I am a big friend of the faith payment.

13:57

You know, I see this seriously

14:00

because I am not a big, uh, I haven't

14:02

been very generous in my compliments, but when I see

14:04

I, I keep credit with you. Adding Think Faith has been

14:06

very successful in my opinion. I think it's almost everywhere

14:09

now. I think it started off coming wrong.

14:11

The strategy was, uh, wellness, direction

14:13

first, and then it became

14:16

f and b. Tell me more about what you

14:18

did at, at, at fifth. Uh, how was

14:20

the business direction like?

14:22

So, um, in fifth we had different

14:24

teams that worked on various categories. So

14:26

we wanted to be a all in, like all

14:28

in one lifestyle at whereby consumers

14:31

who will think of faith when they need to, um,

14:34

fulfill their. their hunger,

14:36

they, or if they want to go

14:38

for a workout or if they want to, um,

14:40

go for any beauty service, right. They can always

14:42

go into the Faith Act to source for the

14:44

best deals and to,

14:47

um, just have it as a like, discovery

14:49

platform for Yeah. Their

14:51

lifestyle needs.

14:53

And I mean, I

14:55

was reading through your LinkedIn profile and I think

14:57

you move up the ranks through to different teams, right?

14:59

Reading Faith. So tell us a bit more about like

15:02

you moving to different teams. Like what, what

15:04

was some things that were similar but yet

15:06

different when you moved to different teams?

15:09

So when I first shared to my manager

15:11

that I see myself being able to,

15:14

uh, do great things, right? If

15:16

I'm able to like manage a, uh,

15:18

a team, um, and to work

15:21

out a strategy for acquisition. So

15:23

being early in my career, they kind

15:26

of gave me an opportunity right to. Create this

15:28

new team of, uh, this team

15:30

whereby I get to work with a,

15:32

a team of up to eight interns,

15:35

um, to, to increase the,

15:37

the acquisition, yeah. To increase the

15:39

speed of acquisition. And that was pretty

15:41

successful. Uh, the ROI on

15:43

that was pretty amazing. And

15:46

that was when, I proposed that we

15:48

should look into other sectors

15:50

and that was, uh, and I

15:53

proposed the retail category. So

15:55

therefore I, I was

15:58

promoted to look after the

16:00

retail, like local retail

16:03

segment and that was when I was,

16:06

able to hire full-timers in

16:08

my team.

16:10

How was it like convincing your bosses,

16:12

uh, your ideas would work?

16:15

I share with them my vision of what

16:18

we could potentially achieve. And of

16:20

course with that, right, I also ask them if this

16:22

is the strategy of like where we

16:24

want to go and, and in a

16:26

moment is this need being fulfilled? If

16:28

this, you know, currently I see this

16:30

gap and if they agree with me that this

16:32

is a gap, which we can, um,

16:35

for Phil, I want to be the

16:37

one who's able to make that happen. Yeah.

16:39

So I share them my plan and um,

16:43

and yeah, I think it went ahead from there.

16:45

Was

16:45

this uh, a proactive approach

16:47

that you took that you went

16:49

to your boss and say they proposed certain ideas

16:52

or was it a task that you had to do?

16:56

It was more of a proactive

16:58

means. So I shared

17:00

what I feel I will be able to

17:03

bring value to. and then

17:05

that opportunity came.

17:08

Got it. I think this is,

17:10

uh, yeah, quite inspiring. Right. And back then, how old were

17:12

you then?

17:13

Or I think 2021.

17:16

Okay. Yeah.

17:17

You started working at 19, right? And then you,

17:19

you, you quit rejoined Fay at

17:21

20 years old or 21? Yeah.

17:23

Okay. how was it, like, how did

17:25

it feel? Was it intimidating? You

17:28

were young in your career and then you were young

17:30

generally, right? I think a lot of peers probably

17:32

started working between the mid twenties.

17:35

Uh, yeah. And, and what

17:37

were you thinking, like, do you think was a risk

17:40

or you were just so convinced by idea that you

17:42

gotta tell it somehow?

17:46

Age to me has always been just a

17:48

number. So I

17:50

think I was generally quite like

17:53

confident. Not just confident because I

17:55

feel confident, but I know that I

17:57

can provide value and I know what I can

17:59

deliver. So having

18:02

that clarity of, knowing

18:04

what I can do helps me

18:07

with the. you know, the,

18:09

in the thoughts or the fear

18:12

that, I'll I'll

18:15

be looked down upon

18:18

Hi, hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

18:20

I'm interrupting my own episode to tell you that

18:22

this podcast has launched a newsletter. If

18:24

you'd like to receive bonus content from this podcast

18:27

and topics on career change and growth,

18:29

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18:32

Link is in the episode description.

18:34

Now back to the episode.

18:39

what made you so confident? Mm.

18:41

What do you know? What do you do?

18:44

How do you feel to be so

18:47

sure? and to be so confident?

18:49

And I ask this not to question you or to

18:51

suspect, you, but it's,

18:54

it's for the audience out there to,

18:57

to gain this confidence that, that, that you,

18:59

you're describing to me. Right? I think a lot of people

19:02

be their introverts or be it, or

19:04

various factors. They think they're minority

19:06

in the workplace. They're young, they're very junior.

19:09

Um, and, and, and from what you're

19:11

saying, from what I'm hearing is that your confidence is from

19:13

within. It is just a number. I

19:16

really love that line. Um, but

19:18

how can someone replicate this, right? And,

19:21

and, and walk us through that process, right? What makes

19:23

you so sure.

19:24

Well, even before I joined

19:27

t or like joined the workforce officially,

19:30

I've always been, you know,

19:32

liasing with like companies, et

19:34

cetera, for like different

19:36

geeks. And I often need

19:38

to like market myself, right? And sell myself my

19:40

solutions in services. And

19:43

I feel that I far pretty well, I'm

19:45

able to get my intentions across and,

19:48

people come back for more.

19:50

So that was when I, you

19:53

know, it's not just a port whereby I feel

19:55

that I'm good, but that kind

19:57

of validates, what I can do.

20:00

Yeah. And then from my time at K

20:02

Fit, I was also a top performer. Um,

20:05

you know, and that further

20:08

proofs that, hey, I can do what I need

20:10

to do. Yeah. And yeah, so

20:13

pop experience.

20:14

Yeah. Well I'm hearing that. Yeah, I think riner is a great

20:16

word. So what I'm hearing is that, you

20:19

started, um, sort of

20:21

been, been out there in the workplace

20:24

even I think you said nine or 10 years old, right?

20:26

selling CDs. Right. Um, so,

20:29

and, and I think in school, I assume in

20:31

poly you have also like been out there in businesses

20:33

or, or marketing your services,

20:36

um, and your products to businesses. So,

20:38

and you've gotten the feedback, you've gotten results. Uh,

20:40

I think that helped you. Right. And I think,

20:42

uh, one thing I want to like highlight

20:45

is that I think confidence

20:47

can be twofold, right? One is from

20:50

within and then you project the confidence.

20:54

The other one is that you can do it

20:56

first and then you get confident later.

20:58

And I think for your case it could make mixture

21:01

of both. But what I'm hearing is that you just described

21:03

to us the second scenario where you've

21:05

been out there and you've got results

21:07

and that help you for confidence and therefore

21:09

they help you to approach other tasks.

21:12

other bosses and other organizations, um,

21:15

with your ideas. Yep,

21:18

yep. Okay. That's very cool.

21:20

Um, and what

21:23

has been some of the most memorable things that

21:25

you've done at Faith?

21:27

I think memorable things would

21:29

be,

21:31

like, let me try, right? I think pay is

21:34

quite a different kind of product versus

21:36

faith pay, in my opinion. Right.

21:38

I don't what you think. Yeah. Um, I mean,

21:40

faith Pay Lit is more a

21:42

buy now pay lit service from

21:45

FA group. And, uh, how was that transition?

21:47

Like, like, I mean, did was all, were

21:49

all your positions, um, you

21:52

created, you, you

21:54

orchestrated the moves or, or what

21:57

were some of the moves that, you know, the,

21:59

so you're saying no, is it?

22:00

Yeah, that was more of like, uh, We

22:03

are within a company whereby they were, uh,

22:05

changing the, like

22:07

sales team divisions, uh,

22:10

to more product focused teams. So

22:12

I was assigned to the new product,

22:14

which faith pay later. But, um,

22:16

going back to, I think your question on like what's,

22:18

um, memorable, right? I think that, um, during

22:21

my time at FA there was a point

22:23

whereby I moved from a

22:25

sales full on sales leadership role

22:28

to a, like,

22:30

um, a dual role. So

22:32

I was actually heading the operations team

22:34

at one point as well. Um,

22:37

and that happened because there

22:40

wasn't a, like

22:42

operations team in faith

22:44

then to actually support our merchants

22:47

onboarding needs. Um, the,

22:49

the sales reps, which is the business development

22:51

managers would need to acquire and

22:54

later on onboard the merchants on them by

22:56

themselves. And I saw that as a,

22:59

I saw that as a very inefficient

23:01

task because. Then salespeople

23:03

will not be able to focus on what they need to

23:05

do. They can't like hustle. There's always

23:07

this like, like bottleneck.

23:10

So that was when I proposed that they

23:13

should hire people, you know, to sort

23:15

out this operations, this operational

23:17

needs. and because of that I

23:19

was also tasked to like build up this team,

23:22

train them, set up SOPs and the

23:24

strategy. So I think that was a memorable,

23:26

because I really got my, I really got my

23:29

hands dirty into like understanding,

23:31

um, and being more organized

23:34

and, um, my training people

23:36

up and setting up certain process of.

23:39

a hundred percent. Yeah, I, I, I agree and

23:41

I concur. I can understand that. And I think

23:43

most of the companies, uh, this role is probably

23:45

called customer success role, right? we call them

23:47

account management. So then there's the acquisition,

23:50

the customer acquisition or salespeople,

23:52

they acquire a merchants, in your case, merchant

23:54

or customers. And then after that, you need to sort of

23:56

onboard them. You need to like hold their hands,

23:58

uh, at least for the first few months, first few weeks at

24:00

least to make sure that they know your product

24:03

well, they adopt it well, and how they can

24:05

do more or with your product or your app. Uh,

24:08

and, and I a hundred percent agree with you. Uh,

24:10

I had a similar experience, uh,

24:12

in my previous role. And, and I think

24:15

those customer acquisition

24:17

versus customer. can require

24:19

very different skill sets. And if

24:21

the sales team is being judged by the

24:23

numbers, the sales numbers, then it's not

24:26

efficient for them to also

24:28

be handling the customers after they've been on or

24:30

after they've been acquired. So there'll

24:32

be a conflict of interest, right? So the, the salesperson

24:34

will be very keen in getting more numbers, more customers

24:36

on board. So I a hundred percent, um,

24:39

yeah, agree with you and yeah,

24:41

so that's memorable. okay. I

24:43

was keen in your time in working in a tech company,

24:46

right, like Faith and then, uh, in Aspire.

24:48

Um, and I wanna move

24:50

on to your site hustles, right? Which I think is the main thing

24:52

what I got you to be on our podcast

24:55

today. you did about couple of things, right?

24:57

Uh, so very recently, or, or rather I'll start

24:59

from the beginning. You, at least

25:01

from what I see on your LinkedIn profile, you

25:03

are a certified personal trainer. I think

25:05

you were a freelance trainer for some time. also

25:09

I can kind of see that, that flow into

25:11

you launching your own fashion brand, called

25:14

Tell us more about that.

25:16

Yep. So I mean, I've always been a very

25:18

active individual. I dance,

25:20

I, um, go to the gym

25:23

at one point in my life I body built, so,

25:26

um, yeah, it was. It was no surprise

25:28

that I decided to take on my,

25:31

uh, certification to be able to

25:33

train new people and to help people as well. I,

25:36

yeah, and, and I did that

25:38

on a, I did that on a freelance basis

25:41

just to help people who,

25:43

uh, reached out. But it wasn't

25:45

kind of like, it wasn't my main job. It

25:48

was most, mostly like just really doing

25:50

my pockets of free time. And,

25:53

um, I decided to work

25:55

on because I,

25:58

being a, like, you know,

26:00

being someone who goes to work does client

26:02

facing roles, I am

26:05

expected to dress up at least look appropriate.

26:08

But at the same time, I love working

26:10

out. I love fitness. I love the spontaneous

26:12

workouts I can get during the lunch times and in the

26:14

morning as well. and I often

26:16

find an issue bringing out another

26:19

set of clothes to just

26:21

work out a big bag. so

26:24

I wanted to have clothes that were

26:26

good for both, which means that I could work out in,

26:28

at the same time I could meet clients in. That was

26:31

my ideal and I just wanted to make that happen.

26:33

So that's when I started on pa.

26:36

Yeah. Tell us more about the name, right? I before

26:38

we recorded this conversation, I asked you about the name,

26:40

uh, and please tell the audience, right, what does this name

26:43

mean? Uh, I was, uh, telling,

26:45

uh, you that you may not sound

26:47

very family friendly with name,

26:49

but tell us more about what does this mean, symbolize?

26:53

Yeah. As I know it doesn't sound

26:55

as, uh, family friendly, um,

26:57

but it actually means empower in

26:59

Maori. So the idea is to be able to empower

27:02

woman to have the ability to do what

27:04

they want, like to be, to

27:06

look great regardless of the occasion. So

27:09

that's what it means. How do you arrive

27:11

at this neme? I

27:13

was really thinking about what

27:16

my brand represents, um,

27:18

and what I want every

27:21

piece. To do for women,

27:24

and the word that

27:26

came into the mind was, uh,

27:28

empower.

27:31

Why Maori?

27:33

It sounded cool.

27:36

Tell, tell me. I know I'm digressing a bit. Tell

27:38

me about the different kind of feedback and comments about the

27:41

name.

27:43

Okay. To be very honest, I didn't

27:45

know that the pronunciation was until

27:49

like, like, like two months

27:51

in. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Correct. Then

27:54

I was speaking to a friend who's

27:56

husband is, uh, understands the

27:58

language and he was like, oh, you know that that

28:00

means, uh, that that is Right.

28:03

I was like, oh, okay. So

28:05

I decided to stick with it because it does

28:07

sound pretty quirky at the same time

28:09

and uh, yeah, it was cute.

28:11

So I decided to just

28:12

stick. Got it. And,

28:15

um, how's that process like, I know it's

28:17

scheduled to launch, um, by

28:19

the end of this year, 2022. And

28:22

then maybe you can tell us about how

28:24

we know the why now and tell us bit more about

28:26

how, how do you get started?

28:29

Uh, what was the first thing that you did? how

28:31

long has it been taking you so far? Um,

28:34

yeah, tell us more about the, how

28:37

overall it was, it wasn't

28:39

an easy, seamless, smooth

28:42

process because, um,

28:44

I'm not design trained nor

28:47

do I have any like, real

28:49

experience in the fashion industry.

28:52

So I had to like really speak

28:54

to, um, friends in the circle

28:56

to understand more about, um,

28:59

sourcing, uh, production

29:04

materials. And

29:06

to ask, right? If my idea was viable.

29:08

So it was, I spent a lot of time on like research

29:10

and like r and d as well. Um,

29:13

and so how dare

29:15

I get started is that I just started to

29:18

engage someone from fiber to help

29:20

me draw out what I want,

29:23

like a technical drawing. So I shared

29:25

with them like similar images, like

29:27

for example, this combined with this and

29:31

like, I just wanna add this part to this design.

29:33

And then they helped me like draw everything. when

29:36

I saw what I wanted, I decided I

29:38

would communicate that to like the different

29:40

factories, uh, and started

29:42

getting caught. So it was a kind

29:44

of, yeah, that process

29:45

for the audience. Uh, fiber is actually a platform,

29:48

uh, it's pronounced, I mean, it's spelled as, uh, five

29:50

five F i v e double

29:52

R. So basically it's a platform that started out,

29:54

I think more than 10 years ago, uh, where it

29:56

allows people to, um, outsource

29:59

gigs, uh, for $5. That's,

30:01

that's how the name came about us, $5. But

30:04

first, now it's evolved a stage where a lot of gigs,

30:06

if they're very complicated, it's more than $5

30:08

for sure. So that's also a very common

30:10

sort of like outsourcing, um, kind of

30:12

a, a place now I use it myself

30:14

as well for, for logos. Uh, so yeah.

30:16

I hear you. So you, um, you use

30:19

fiber to outsource the design of the outfit,

30:21

and then you, you brought it to the different factories.

30:24

Um, what has been the most

30:25

difficult so far? Difficult.

30:29

What's difficult is that, um,

30:31

these factories being based out of Singapore,

30:35

um, it was hard to, communicate

30:39

quick and to also,

30:42

specify certain needs. Right.

30:44

And so language was an issue. Yeah. Correct.

30:47

Language was an issue. Um,

30:49

because, my Chinese isn't great, so

30:52

it was a little bit difficult. Um,

30:54

I managed to get some help.

30:57

Got it. When was it meant

30:59

to be launch and

31:01

has there been any delays or, or changes

31:03

in the schedule?

31:04

Super long. So I was intending

31:07

to launch around

31:10

February this year. Mm-hmm. um,

31:12

I, but now the, the launch

31:14

date will be pushed to about December

31:16

this year. What cost the billing's

31:21

production lead time and, um,

31:23

corrections in a fit cause

31:25

with what I'm producing,

31:27

what I'm producing is not like normal

31:30

designs. So the

31:32

activewear fit is very,

31:35

uh, tricky. Yeah. So

31:37

when I, when the samples came back, they were

31:39

like, changes. I need to make this hap There was this back

31:41

and forth, like a couple of times. That's a time.

31:43

So, yeah.

31:45

Yeah. I, for the audience, I will be happy

31:47

to put the link of

31:50

on, on the show notes, uh, on or

31:53

on the podcast platform that you are consuming on. Uh,

31:55

and yeah, so now it's December. Um, do you expect any

31:57

delays of, of any further delays?

32:00

Um, no, because the clothes

32:02

are already fully produced and it's on

32:04

the way shipping on the way, unless they're any shipping delays.

32:07

from now to then, it's more of like the creative

32:10

and creating of certain content before

32:12

I go, like, and

32:16

I, I know this is a, a

32:18

passion project. Um, we

32:20

spoke about this before in person. Um,

32:22

how big, how

32:24

far do you intend to pursue this, uh,

32:27

fashion project?

32:31

Well, I do intend to

32:34

pursue, I do intend to

32:36

pursue it, uh, long term. Um, but

32:38

of course, you know, being like,

32:42

you know, starting out, I know that our take

32:44

things as it comes as well. So I

32:46

hear the responses, see what I need to tweak, um,

32:49

and from there I might change the short term

32:51

direction and

32:53

I'm gonna jump to the next C hustle that

32:56

I got to know that was not,

32:58

that's not on your LinkedIn profile, but I got to

33:00

know that I got a pleasure of knowing. you've

33:02

also dabbled in property, right? and

33:05

tell us a bit more about this property thing

33:07

that you're doing.

33:08

Hmm. so I

33:10

think what you're referring to is more like on my,

33:13

property investment efforts. Yeah. So

33:15

I decided

33:17

to, understand more

33:20

about the industry about like

33:23

four, about 5, 4, 5 years

33:26

ago. Yeah. That was when I,

33:28

I, cause I mean, you know, hearing

33:30

from people, like just generally,

33:32

right? People often say that, oh, people make money

33:35

from property, selling property

33:37

and investing, but I never knew

33:39

how. So I just needed to find out how I

33:42

attended courses and, read

33:44

about it more online and found

33:46

that when it comes to property investment

33:49

time is money,

33:51

really money. So it was,

33:54

it came to mind that I have to start early.

33:57

So I, figured

33:59

figured out the know how's when I was about

34:01

22 to 23

34:04

there about, and invested

34:07

in my first. Property, commercial,

34:10

residential. It's, industrial.

34:13

So it's industrial property and

34:15

I've already sold it. I've

34:18

just sold it like it, and it

34:20

is, and it's scheduled to be completed next month.

34:23

Nice. So, uh, tell

34:25

me more, man. I, I mean, I am, uh, I'm quite new

34:27

in, in property. so industrial property,

34:30

you, you bought it when you were in 22

34:32

years old, that's four years back. And then

34:35

how does it work? You, you bought it at early stage

34:37

and then you wait for it to, to, I don't

34:39

know, to get, to build up, uh,

34:41

to get built up and then to be sold. Is that how it works?

34:43

Tell, tell us more.

34:45

So, uh, generally yes,

34:47

but, uh, I'm just gonna dive a bit into the

34:49

details. Yeah. So it's not just

34:51

about any property, but looking out for

34:54

properties that kind of like fit the

34:56

criteria. Like for example, it's, it is rentability,

34:59

um, the kind of like businesses

35:02

like occupying this entire, like

35:04

building. The amenities nearby.

35:07

So that all contributes to

35:09

how, much potential

35:11

this project gives. Yeah. And

35:14

so, um, I did my

35:16

research and I,

35:18

um, yeah, it is sales process.

35:20

You know, you speak to, to agents, different

35:22

listings, and you negotiate right? A price.

35:25

The whole idea is to be able to get, um,

35:27

a good price, ideally a price below

35:30

what people usually pay for. Not easy,

35:32

but the there are opportunities.

35:35

So that was, yeah.

35:37

So you sounded like, it sounded like you studied

35:39

the market. You, you knew certain knowledge,

35:42

um, or at least look out, you knew what to look

35:44

out for when you're looking out for property,

35:47

uh, for properties, and then, uh,

35:49

factors like rentability, and then once

35:51

you source out the ideal locations

35:54

or, or, or the. Plot of,

35:57

of properties. You speak to

35:59

the agents to negotiate good price so that you can

36:01

get the undervalued price. that's

36:03

what I'm hearing. Yes. Is that right? Correct. Got,

36:05

got it. a big, discussion about

36:07

properties is that, uh, I mean generally

36:09

in Singapore, in Asian context,

36:12

yeah. It's Asians live property. Um,

36:15

and it's, uh, real estate is a huge, uh,

36:18

sector that drives investment. We,

36:20

we get it. Um, but a big discussion

36:22

about properties is that, um, how do you get

36:24

the bulk cash when you're young, right? So

36:27

you started at 22, so how do you go about

36:29

getting the, the cash?

36:32

So, uh, for me,

36:35

thanks. I mean, I'm blessed

36:37

to have started work early or

36:39

to have started earning money early as well. So I do have

36:41

savings, um, so I was

36:44

able to pay

36:46

for the down payment. Myself

36:48

then, um, it was a 90%

36:51

loan, so 10% wasn't as

36:53

dead. But of course, um,

36:56

cash flow is king and having

36:58

cash on hand is really important.

37:00

So I decided to reach out to, um,

37:03

my parents and, um,

37:05

a trust start friend to,

37:08

to share with them in like a, a deal, right?

37:10

That hey, um, if you put in

37:13

this amount of cash with me, I would, um,

37:15

give them like a di a yearly dividend for

37:17

a period of time. Yeah. And,

37:19

um, yeah, so I mean, these

37:21

people believed in me and

37:23

I, yeah, and, and that was how

37:25

I was able to still have a bit more cash

37:27

flow as I, you know, do life.

37:31

And this is just the of

37:33

exactly why I'm so impressed by you, right? I mean,

37:35

you're a hustler, right? Uh, out and

37:37

out, right? You hustle when you were 10 years old, selling

37:39

CDs to your friends, uh, making so much

37:42

money back then. Uh, and. And,

37:44

and then at your school, at

37:46

your early jobs, uh, at fa

37:48

you had to convince bosses. Uh, you had to hustle

37:51

to convince them of your ideas, and

37:53

you didn't go in them blind, right? You're confident in your abilities

37:55

because you, you done work earlier in your life.

37:58

Uh, and then when it comes to like your personal investments,

38:01

you, you hustle, you reach out to your parents,

38:03

to your trust up friend or friends, um,

38:05

just to make sure that your cashflow is okay.

38:08

So I think that's something that I really admire

38:10

a lot in you. Um, that's something that I wish

38:12

I could do more of, and I'm sure it's something

38:14

that the audience can, uh, would

38:16

set them thinking about. How

38:19

did this hustle, nature

38:21

start in you? Um, besides

38:23

that selling CDs thing and,

38:26

and, and I,

38:28

I want to ask this question later on, but, but

38:30

what's your philosophy of life, right?

38:33

It's, are you always thinking about

38:35

site hustles, ways to make money? Is

38:37

that how you became so, um,

38:40

creative in all your ventures, right?

38:42

Like from setting up a mobile bar, uh,

38:44

to, to joining an early stage startup and,

38:47

and doing a phy, uh, physical,

38:49

uh, personal trainer. So, yeah.

38:51

how do you think about money? How do you think about

38:53

investment? How do you think outside hustles?

38:56

Mm. Money To

38:58

me, money can just always be

39:00

made and, and investments

39:03

is a way to make money work

39:06

for you and to have like predictable

39:08

means of growing

39:10

the cash. And that's the difference between

39:13

investment and gambling because it's a predictability.

39:17

And I think earlier you had asked me about

39:19

like how did my hustle personality

39:22

came about. I think it came about

39:24

because as

39:27

I was young, I was just generally a person

39:29

who like must

39:31

get what I want and must

39:33

get what I won. And. that

39:39

that contributed to a bit of that

39:41

rebellious ness in me, kind

39:43

of like, I just need to do what I

39:46

need. I'm not gonna let anyone stop me, and

39:48

I don't need your help if you're not gonna help me.

39:50

Yeah. So, because I know that

39:53

I cannot depend on people to get what

39:55

I need at that point in time, I

39:57

need to figure out how

39:59

I can do it myself and, just

40:02

be creative about it. think

40:04

out the box. So I

40:07

think that led to all

40:09

the, you know, side hustles

40:12

and random, like, spontaneous

40:14

ideas to, to just

40:17

get what I want.

40:18

what have been some things that you tried to get but

40:20

you didn't get?

40:22

generally, I mean, I

40:24

You always get what you want, right? You always get what you want.

40:26

Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. But I think, like, you know, I

40:28

just needed, uh,

40:30

more, like, for example, I was in secondary school, I

40:32

needed more money and, um,

40:35

you know, I, I, I'm not a fan of just asking

40:37

my parents for more money. My, my parents

40:40

know my, my pocket money remains the same, but I need

40:42

more money. So, um,

40:46

I found ways

40:48

to earn money, like giving tuition, et cetera.

40:51

Uh, and, and I know that my parents

40:53

are not gonna give me more money just to fulfill my needs. Yeah.

40:55

So I need go find money myself in, uh,

40:58

legal and, uh, value

41:00

adding manner, you know, not by doing anything

41:02

like that. So I gave tuition. I did

41:04

random, like stuff just to get money, and I used

41:06

this money to go for karaoke sessions. So

41:08

it was to fulfill a need. True,

41:10

true. so it sounds like you always get what,

41:13

what you always wanted. If

41:15

you look back your life right now, I, I know it's not a

41:17

lot, right? It's 26 years old. I think you've

41:19

got a huge, uh, part of the life

41:21

in in front of you. What would you consider

41:23

as failures so far? And

41:25

I say consider because everyone

41:28

defines success and failures, uh, differently.

41:30

So in your opinion, in your definition,

41:33

what have been, uh, a big failure

41:35

or memorable failure so far in your life?

41:38

To me, failures are not, doesn't

41:40

sound as there as it sounds, so, um,

41:44

but I think one thing I fell in was

41:46

in being

41:49

too trusting. Yeah. I

41:51

felt in having clarity and

41:54

being realistic about things. Yeah.

41:57

So that was when I,

42:00

uh, mistrusted someone and

42:02

lost about hundred

42:04

and 80,000 when I was

42:08

around 21 to 22.

42:12

Got it.

42:14

I, I, I kind of know the story. Uh,

42:17

yeah, we, we met up in person and I kind of know the story.

42:20

what was lesson learned?

42:22

Well, the lesson

42:23

learned is very, we, we skeptical by everyone. Is

42:25

that, is that lesson learned?

42:27

No, no, not at all. Um,

42:30

but, uh, just, uh, do my

42:32

due diligence. Like don't

42:35

be overly trusting about

42:37

with everyone and anything. just

42:40

need to be, do a lot more due

42:42

diligence and, um,

42:46

speak to. and

42:49

about certain things. Is it really okay to speak to,

42:51

to, you know, your parents now at one

42:53

point, you know, you don't really share, I don't really share a lot of my parents,

42:56

but when like, shit happens.

42:58

Right. Actually your parents are usually really

43:00

the, the real people

43:02

who are there for you.

43:04

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent

43:07

agree. Uh, how would someone,

43:10

if you were to look back in your life

43:12

at a, at a point in time, having

43:14

gain the wisdom, how would you

43:16

advise someone in that situation to do more

43:18

due diligence?

43:20

Really ask more and like, like

43:23

have clarity. So it is

43:25

because I did not have clarity and I

43:27

just rely on trust. I

43:29

failed to see the, the

43:32

pitfalls. Yeah. Yeah.

43:34

Cause I didn't know what the cash was being

43:37

used for. I didn't know the

43:39

truth of like many of the stories I

43:41

took it. On a surface level, like, okay, I

43:43

believe you, but that shouldn't be the case,

43:45

especially when, um,

43:48

like money's involved.

43:51

Is that why women are, um,

43:55

they target the victims of love scams,

43:59

I don't know. Maybe.

44:02

No, there was a tongue and cheek question. No, you didn't answer

44:04

that. Uh, yeah. I'm just, just being cheeky here. Um,

44:07

and one, when

44:09

we had our conversation in person, the last time

44:11

there was this point, there's this,

44:14

uh, yeah, there's this point that I, I really like,

44:16

um, your decision not to pursue

44:18

a degree. Right. And I think the, let me view

44:20

the context of this. I

44:23

know there's a huge age gap between you and me, um,

44:25

but I think we grew up with Asian

44:28

traditional parents, at least Maya. uh,

44:31

that the way to a better life, uh,

44:33

in the world is to make sure that you have a good education

44:35

and, and then, and that translate to having

44:38

a degree. And of course, that that

44:41

translation to what it means in the

44:43

real world changes over time. Right.

44:45

Back then it could be, uh, having a all levels that's

44:48

good enough to have a good life, decent life,

44:50

a good job at decent life. And then over time,

44:52

uh, and this is why I call academic inflation, right?

44:55

Um, and at least for me, my time,

44:57

the degree was the sort of like the go-to path

45:00

to pursuing a decent life. Um,

45:03

and for you, you were quite clear that

45:05

you did not want to pursue a degree. Why?

45:09

Well, because I

45:11

knew what I wanted to do. I knew,

45:13

and because of the opportunity

45:15

I had, I felt that this,

45:18

experience was going

45:21

to be, more valuable

45:23

at a point in my life. And in

45:25

this experience,

45:26

sorry, lemme cut you. Your experience meaning,

45:28

your first job at Faith, is that what you're

45:30

saying? Correct. Okay. What experience? I

45:34

said, because even before I started

45:36

work at KFit I was doing all my, like side

45:38

hustles and gigs. Right. I knew that money

45:40

could be generated already, even

45:43

before I, I, I graduated from

45:45

polytechnic So, I

45:48

knew that, providing

45:50

value is a lot

45:53

more, to

45:55

me important than just the paper

45:57

itself. Yeah. Because I mean, I, I

45:59

used to, I mean, I have friends who are

46:02

academically, you know, very

46:04

smart. I mean, that's great and of course

46:06

hardworking, right. But I

46:10

saw, I saw certain

46:12

gaps in

46:14

their interpersonal skills and ability

46:16

to work with people, and

46:19

so I just didn't quite.

46:23

Agree with, you

46:26

know, the need for a degree in order

46:28

to have a decent job. Yeah, I just

46:30

felt like there was another way as well,

46:32

and I just wanted to explore

46:34

that path.

46:35

How unconventional

46:38

was that decision among the

46:39

peers? Almost all

46:41

my friends went for

46:43

university beat, um, local

46:46

or private or private youth because it was

46:48

just like the way to go.

46:51

Um, even my parents also felt that, that

46:54

they were afraid that I would feel, left

46:57

out or that I wouldn't

46:59

know. People would look down on me if I

47:01

didn't have a degree, but

47:05

I just never cared about what

47:07

people think because in the end

47:10

it's what I deliver. What I. Do,

47:12

um, and being a hiring manager

47:15

like now as well, and for the past years, it's

47:17

true. someone whom you would like to work with isn't

47:20

all about, isn't about where they, they,

47:22

uh, studied. What they studied, how well they

47:24

did is about, um,

47:27

you know, how, uh, humble,

47:30

uh, they are, how much they're willing to learn,

47:32

how much they're willing to put in, in, in,

47:34

in terms of like their efforts and,

47:36

and their exact work. It has nothing to do with

47:39

like, which they degree, they, they,

47:42

they have. So, yeah.

47:44

And I, I was also quite certain that I didn't want,

47:47

I wasn't going for like

47:49

a government job. So

47:52

I think that helped me with my decision. Cause I.

47:54

I mean, it's, it's true. If you're going for a government job,

47:57

then just go get a degree because,

47:59

uh, the, the system, the Education System

48:01

America system right, is there is

48:03

to stay. So that's important, but

48:06

I knew that was not the direction I was going for.

48:08

I think it's one thing to be confident of our abilities

48:11

to be able to deliver value, in the workplace

48:13

without a degree. And it's another thing

48:17

to be perceived as so.

48:19

Right. like you said, majority

48:22

of your peers went on to do a degree because

48:24

at least in our culture, in our society, we think that

48:27

the degree is just, uh, the right path,

48:29

uh, as a minimum prerequisite these days

48:31

to get decent job, uh, be it government

48:34

or non-government. and now that you are hiring

48:36

people, you're employee of sorts, you

48:38

are able to. provide

48:41

the perspective, that you don't discriminate

48:43

people just based on which school

48:45

they went to, which degree, which degree they have. Um,

48:48

but my point is I think there needs to be, um,

48:51

an all-encompassing environment

48:53

for that to happen because it's one thing to

48:56

be confident, but then if no,

48:58

all the other other job applicant or

49:00

applications, uh, all the jobs you apply for,

49:02

all the companies, you apply for, all the hires were trying to hire,

49:04

you all think that need degree, then you never

49:06

get an interviewed, you, you never get the job right.

49:09

Yeah. Uh, I think it needs to be two ways. Uh,

49:11

and I, yeah, I

49:13

think I just wanna highlight that and I think

49:15

for you to be so convinced

49:18

in your direction to

49:21

ignore the things that your well-meaning

49:23

family and friends say to you at a point in time,

49:26

at the age of what, um, 1920,

49:29

uh, I think that's not usual. That's

49:31

quite commendable. Um,

49:34

and I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong, right? I

49:36

think everyone has their own definition. What, what's right or what's wrong. I think

49:38

it's just a different path. one of the biggest things

49:40

that I wanna, biggest message I want to,

49:43

provide in this podcast is to let people know that

49:45

taking a different path doesn't mean that you're wrong. Thinking

49:48

something that's less travel doesn't mean that you're wrong.

49:51

Um, stop caring about what's

49:53

right, what's wrong, what, what do people think? Uh,

49:55

I think, I think knowing yourself,

49:58

trying things like what you have done, that's how

50:00

you get the feedback that you're able to deliver value

50:02

regardless of going for a degree or not. Uh,

50:05

I think that that is valuable. That is powerful

50:07

in my opinion. And what's

50:09

one advice you give to people considering starting

50:11

a site hustle?

50:14

I think before, if you wanna start a side hustle

50:17

first, like fall

50:19

in love with the idea, and you kind kind

50:22

of like need to be a bit obsessed with it because, The,

50:25

in the short run, the side hustle is probably not

50:27

gonna give you much monetary benefits. And

50:29

you need that, that long-term motivation

50:31

is gonna be your love for the idea. So,

50:35

and And with that love you'll naturally

50:38

find means to make things

50:40

work. So to me, I think that's the

50:43

foundation at, what

50:45

sparks the, the

50:47

movement of a side hustle.

50:49

That's very nice, very, very ly

50:51

uh, um,

50:54

yeah, sounds like starting this podcast too for me.

50:56

Yeah. Uh, no financial

50:59

short gains, uh, financial gains for me. I shot them.

51:01

Uh, that's for sure. you probably

51:03

meet a lot of young people right at work. Um,

51:05

and, and based on your interactions and

51:07

observations with them or of them,

51:10

um, what is your sensing? Um,

51:13

and I, I say this, I think

51:15

if the context that we just. we

51:17

are coming out of this, um, ones

51:20

and a century kind of, uh, pandemic that happened

51:22

to us back in 2020.

51:24

And I think if you are a French

51:26

grad back then, you would have,

51:29

uh, entered the workforce working

51:31

from home, right. If you were lucky to get a job right.

51:33

In those times, uh, in, in last two years.

51:36

Uh, so what I'm saying is that younger people

51:38

now are going through different times. No,

51:40

I'm saying, I'm not saying that they're going through a more

51:42

difficult time than what we have gone through before. I think every

51:45

generation has its own issues

51:47

and, and, and challenges. Um,

51:49

but with your interactions right now, um,

51:51

what's one advice or message

51:54

for them in terms of their

51:54

career? Uh, advice

51:57

would be to just, um, get,

52:00

be very resourceful because

52:02

in the beginning, know

52:04

everything seems new

52:06

and, um, for you to get

52:09

things done. Don't just wait for people

52:11

to teach you. Um, find out how,

52:14

ask people. And when you ask

52:16

people, actually people are generally

52:18

quite helpful and people like to help. When

52:20

they, people provide value, they feel happy and,

52:23

uh, you get you, you gain as well.

52:25

So that would be my advice.

52:28

What does success look like to you now?

52:32

Success means that

52:35

I am fulfilled, I

52:38

work life balance, and

52:42

I am making

52:44

people around me happy. What

52:46

did

52:47

success look like to you five years

52:49

ago? Five

52:51

years ago it was about just,

52:53

um, earning

52:56

money, more money and

53:00

more money.

53:02

why and how the change across

53:04

the years.

53:05

I think over the years, um, like

53:08

there are certain things I, there are other things

53:10

I prioritize in life. for example,

53:13

my hobbies And

53:16

kind of like, um,

53:19

yeah, so I mean all these priorities

53:22

kind of just change and

53:24

I found that I need to find happiness in

53:26

different aspects of my life as well and to care

53:29

more about the people around me. Yeah.

53:32

So with all that

53:34

in place, I think,

53:36

you know, um, find that money

53:38

will just come, will

53:41

come, but angle. Yeah.

53:43

Correct. But it doesn't need to

53:45

be like the main like focus.

53:49

Cause sometimes when you think too much about that, you lose

53:51

the human.

53:53

Usually with my other guests, I ask, how

53:55

did success look like to you? Five years and 10 years ago,

53:58

but I'll skip it 10 years ago with you. if

54:00

you could have a, I

54:02

think two versions of this same question.

54:04

One question one, one version is, um,

54:07

if you could have a billboard with any message you wanna broadcast,

54:10

what would it be? Version two of the question is,

54:12

if you have a big message for the audience, what would

54:14

it be? Big

54:17

message would be two, just

54:19

not fear. Failure, um,

54:22

and to ego

54:24

isn't important. Just do

54:27

it because, um,

54:30

you don't know if you don't try.

54:32

And in the end, embarrassment

54:35

is all within your own mind. So

54:38

if you, you know, it made me feel,

54:40

whenever you feel embarrassed, most

54:43

of the time people around you don't find

54:45

it that humiliating.

54:47

It's all in the mind. So just go

54:49

for it. Yeah,

54:52

yeah, a hundred percent. my similar version

54:54

of that is, um, people

54:58

have come to me and asked me, oh, I

55:00

did, uh, oh, John, you did your own business before,

55:03

and now that you're employee, like, do you feel very

55:05

embarrassed? Do you feel that

55:07

this change in title from employee to employee

55:10

would affect you and how, or affect how

55:12

people look at you? So, yeah,

55:14

I think with that, I, I agree what you said, right? That I

55:16

think embarrassment is all in your mind. Uh,

55:18

you never try. You never know. and I

55:20

think the, the later, one

55:23

of the later answers to that, that pointer

55:25

is that, I think most people just care

55:27

about themselves. They don't really care about

55:29

you. They don't care whether

55:32

yeah, how you lie, as long as they're still doing fine.

55:34

Of course, your close friends care about you. But, but

55:37

title, and this like job

55:39

titles and what you do for a living. I think

55:41

if people really care about you, all those job

55:43

titles don't really matter. I think that

55:45

that's my, my answer to my friend as well. Um,

55:49

like social media for example, right? I mean, social media's

55:51

a pet, topic for me in the sense

55:53

that I think it's not super healthy or rather needs

55:55

to be consumed in a moderate manner. everyone's

55:58

worried about looking their best on social

56:00

media, but, but I think the answer is

56:02

people only care about how they look to others,

56:04

right? They don't really care about how you look, right?

56:07

Mm-hmm. So a hundred percent

56:09

that if you don't try, you never know. And I think, uh,

56:12

that, that, that team runs through in

56:15

how I see your career path so far. And,

56:17

and, uh, that explains your confidence

56:20

at a young age. That explains

56:22

in your position not, not choosing,

56:25

um, that conventional path of doing a,

56:27

a degree, uh, because

56:29

you have done things before you, and

56:31

through those experiences, you are sure that you're able to deliver value.

56:34

Um, and that doesn't require you to go

56:36

to a university, to to, to get

56:39

that validation. So I

56:42

would urge everyone to go out there and do more things instead

56:44

of thinking about it, just trying, right? I think what

56:46

was the sum of trying, right? If you fail, okay, you

56:48

do something else, right? You try again. But

56:51

if you don't try you, you get nothing. Right?

56:53

When you try, you either, you know it doesn't work

56:56

then okay, you learn something. If you know it works, okay,

56:58

go on and do it. Right? So there's no

57:00

loose scenario. There's no loose

57:02

option when you, when you choose to try. Yeah.

57:05

Um, Yeah, I was

57:08

gonna ask about the movie, podcast, video and

57:10

all that. What's one good, uh, movie, documentary

57:12

or video you watch that you first recommended,

57:14

or have you found ever recommending anything to people

57:17

recently? No,

57:18

I don't. And that's why

57:21

even like, uh, the answer

57:23

to that question should be, you should re recommend

57:26

everyone to check out FKA Man when it's Launch

57:29

Right? And, and, and I wanna give you some

57:31

air time to, um, to put

57:33

a PLA for FKA Manna, right. And, and

57:35

tell, tell us who will be the target audience,

57:38

uh, who you aim to, who you think will be a

57:40

good target audience to buy, uh,

57:42

to, to try or to buy

57:45

So is for women

57:47

who live an active lifestyle, but

57:49

at the same time care about, um,

57:52

how they look from day to day and,

57:54

the, I would say, Target

57:57

audience would be usually

57:59

for women in the fifties

58:01

to thirties. Yeah. Who just

58:04

wants to live life in a more comfortable

58:06

and elegant way. Yes.

58:10

And we should expect this to be out on your website

58:13

in

58:13

December, right? Correct. Yes. Be launch in December,

58:15

but meanwhile, um, you can just our

58:17

website to, uh, sign

58:19

up for our mailing list because there'll be a

58:21

promo code launch promo code as well that'll be delivered

58:24

to your mailbox in Israeli.

58:26

And you want to give, uh,

58:29

since people are listening or watching, you want to give the

58:31

link right now? Yeah,

58:34

it's uh, www.com.com.

58:38

And please spell it. W

58:42

H A K A M A N e.com.

58:45

Very good. Yeah.

58:46

Um, and is there

58:48

anything else you wanna tell the audience besides your

58:50

launch, your accepting launch for, uh, Fama?

58:54

I think just, uh, I just share

58:56

an idea on like what kind of designs to expect.

58:59

It's, although I, uh, I shared activewear,

59:02

um, you'll be pretty surprised that it looks nothing

59:04

like the usual sports bra and type

59:07

CC online. Uh, you can expect

59:09

a dressers that, um, can

59:11

be transformed from a uni heart to

59:13

a work dress or even jumpsuits

59:15

that can, uh, look like it's great

59:17

for dates to a yoga

59:20

session.

59:21

And I believe you would be

59:23

the natural first choice

59:25

of the influencer for your brand. Am I

59:27

right? I mean, yes. I have to

59:29

be the first advocate.

59:33

Mel, this has been really fun. thank you for your time, uh,

59:35

I think for sharing your, your journey, uh, and

59:37

your site hustles. I've been really impressed

59:40

by what you've done so far, and, uh, I hope

59:42

the audience, uh, of this podcast has also gained

59:44

something from this conversation. So we look

59:47

forward to the launch and thank you for the time

59:49

once again, Peter. Thank you.

59:51

See you. Bye-bye.

59:52

See you. Bye.