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Terms, terms apply. podcast, terms

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apply. And I'm the only one

1:01

explaining how everyone is lying to you.

1:03

So I started reporting on Tradwives. I

1:05

somehow became America's leading expert on

1:07

Tradwives. I've been quoted. I'm like,

1:10

Nightline and all of these other

1:12

shows talking about Tradwives. Because I

1:14

also used to be a political

1:16

reporter, right? So I was able

1:19

to see this for what it

1:21

was right off the bat, which

1:23

is propaganda. And the right wing.

1:25

And a lot of fundamental Christian

1:28

organizations have propped up a lot

1:30

of these influencers and used them

1:32

to softly proselytize on social media.

1:34

So I was reporting on them and

1:37

I just, you know, it's a world,

1:39

man, and a world that was ripe

1:41

for some kind of fun novelization. So

1:43

I just started playing around with it

1:45

and I was honestly writing this for

1:48

fun. I was like, what if I

1:50

write a Tradwife murder mystery? What if

1:52

the Tradwives all start just murdering their

1:54

husbands? What's gonna happen then? I've never

1:56

written, like, Sicilian inheritance is a murder

1:59

mystery, but it's. a very involved one.

2:01

This is just a bananas, gonzo

2:03

murder thriller. Hi, I'm Laura Cathcott

2:05

Robbins and this is the only

2:07

one in the room. An independent

2:10

podcast supported by you, our patron

2:12

community members. Please see our show

2:14

notes to find out more about

2:16

joining our patron or if you

2:18

like more information about anything in

2:21

this episode. This podcast is for

2:23

anyone who has ever felt alone

2:25

in a room full of people.

2:27

which is to say that this

2:30

podcast is for everyone. I'm

2:55

Laura Cathcott Robbins and this

2:57

is the only one in

2:59

the room, but I'm never

3:01

the only one in this

3:03

room because as usual, my

3:05

boyfriend producer and co-host, Scott

3:07

Slaughter, who I call Hun, is here

3:09

as well. Hi honey. Hey Hun. So

3:11

today we have with us drum roll.

3:13

I don't do drums, but Joe

3:16

Piazza. Is that how you say your

3:18

last name? Because it is. I

3:20

was listening to the way you

3:22

said it. For those of you

3:24

who don't know, Joe is... She's

3:26

so many things and she's so

3:28

incredible. She's a national and international

3:30

best-selling author. Her work has been

3:32

published in 10 languages in 12

3:34

countries and four of her books

3:36

have been optioned for film and

3:38

television. Her podcasts have garnered more

3:40

than 25 million downloads and she

3:42

regularly and regularly top podcast charts.

3:45

She's an editor. She's a columnist. She's

3:47

a travel writer. Her work has also

3:49

appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the

3:51

New York Times, New York magazine, so

3:53

many others. And she lives in Philly,

3:55

which we were just talking about with

3:57

her husband, Negaster, and three feral children.

4:00

and I love that. And I love that

4:02

you just like Nick just gets

4:04

named right off the bat, not

4:06

just her husband, but her husband,

4:08

Nick Astor. Nick Astor and those

4:10

three feral children, which I love

4:12

that you didn't blink when you

4:15

read that because usually people are

4:17

like, oh, and these are her

4:19

words. I'm like, it's okay to say it.

4:21

Yes. Okay to say it. So what I

4:23

was going to say to you, first of

4:25

all, welcome to the show. Thank you

4:27

for doing me. seem to be one

4:29

of the busiest people I've ever met.

4:32

And you made time to feature our

4:34

show on your feed, which we really

4:36

appreciated. And you're making time to come

4:38

in and do this interview. And you've

4:40

just been, you know, for someone who

4:43

I've never met in real life,

4:45

you've been incredibly supportive. And I

4:47

just wanted to thank you for

4:49

that. Oh, well thank you. And

4:52

I just, I love your show

4:54

and everything that you put out

4:56

into the world. So it's easy

4:59

to be supportive when people are

5:01

making such wonderful stuff. Thank

5:03

you. And I had lunch Friday.

5:05

So this is, no, no, I had

5:08

lunch this week. This is Friday.

5:10

I had lunch on Tuesday with

5:12

Christine Pride. Oh my gosh, stop

5:14

it. Really? Yes. I never met

5:17

her before. We were at an event

5:19

together and I bought this book, which

5:21

you two co-wrote, which is one of

5:23

many, and asked her if she

5:25

wanted to grab lunch with me

5:28

and another author who were having

5:30

lunch the next day, and she

5:32

graciously said yes. Oh my gosh.

5:34

The world is so small. There's

5:36

four people in the world. So

5:38

Christine is an editor and an

5:41

author and often your writing partner,

5:43

and you guys are doing a

5:45

podcast together, right? Yeah, we're we're

5:47

making kind of a spin-off of

5:49

my committed podcast, which is a

5:51

podcast about Marriage and commitment and

5:54

that podcast has been going for

5:56

so long. It's been going for

5:58

eight years now and Chris Christine's

6:01

new novel is about how it's

6:03

a novel. I mean, it's fiction,

6:05

but it's loosely based on her

6:07

own story about a woman falling

6:09

back in love with the same

6:11

two men in her 40s that

6:13

she had fallen in love with

6:15

in her early 20s. And this

6:17

is also Christine's love story. So

6:19

we're doing a spinoff of committed

6:21

called recommitted. where we are telling love

6:23

stories of love found again, and we're

6:26

still looking for those. So I'm very

6:28

excited, I'm very excited to find those

6:30

stories, and that's going to launch in

6:32

June, I think. That's fantastic. Sorry, when

6:34

you say you're looking for them, do

6:36

you want people to submit? We want

6:38

people to reach out to us. Yeah,

6:41

people can email me directly at Joe

6:43

at influential media dot Biz, and just

6:45

say, hey, I've got a recommitment love

6:47

story, and we can figure out if

6:49

you're right for the show. That's fantastic.

6:51

That's such a great opportunity for

6:54

somebody. So yeah, so I

6:56

was like, wait a second, when we

6:58

did this event together, we were on

7:00

a panel together Monday night,

7:02

and I was like, I'm interviewing

7:05

Joe on Friday. This is crazy.

7:07

It is such a small world.

7:09

She's so lovely. Yeah. Yeah, well,

7:11

you know, she started out as

7:13

my editor. Yes, she told she I

7:15

so I extracted the whole story from her

7:17

because I'm like tell me everything I want

7:19

to know how this happened and how it

7:21

is and you know she just and so I

7:24

don't want to get too much into her

7:26

story because I I want to talk about

7:28

you but it's this it's a really interesting

7:30

chain of events to me that brought you

7:32

two together and it was topical and it

7:35

was of the times and you know

7:37

this particular book we are not like

7:39

them which I want to make the Kendrick

7:41

Lamar song by mistake? Yeah, no, I get

7:43

it. I get it. Also, we have so

7:45

many pronouns in all of the titles of

7:47

our books. Yes. Our first one is we

7:49

are not like them, and then you were

7:51

always mine. And the third one that we're

7:53

finishing right now is I never knew you

7:56

at all. And so sometimes we're just like,

7:58

oh, we are not them us. Right. You.

8:00

Right. So before I get

8:02

into some of the other

8:05

things I want to

8:07

talk to you about,

8:09

I'm astounded by your

8:11

body of work. Like

8:14

blown away. How many

8:16

podcasts do you have?

8:18

I have made 10.

8:21

Active podcasts right now,

8:23

it's three. So under the

8:26

influence. Under the influence committed,

8:28

which is the one that

8:31

we talked about, under the

8:33

influence is it started out

8:35

as a deep dive into

8:37

the world of mom influencers,

8:39

but it's really expanded into

8:41

the massive impact that social

8:43

media has on all of

8:45

our lives on a daily

8:47

basis and how we can

8:49

push against that to actually

8:51

enjoy our lives more. And

8:53

then I, during the election,

8:55

I was doing a podcast

8:57

with my friend, the political

8:59

influencer Emily Amek, about politics

9:01

called We've Got Issues, and Emily

9:03

and I are launching a new show

9:06

together, which is an advice

9:08

show called Frank Advice with Emmon

9:10

Joe. So that's your launch in

9:12

a couple months. Okay, so

9:15

just the people that are

9:17

listening, just remember this. and

9:19

then also remember the husband

9:21

and the three feral children who were

9:24

all under what age? They are eight,

9:26

five, and two. Yeah. So they'll have

9:29

little kids. Yeah, they will. So

9:31

yeah, just just bear that in

9:33

mind as we go through the

9:35

rest of the interview because this

9:37

is why I say that she's

9:39

maybe the busiest person I've ever

9:41

met. So I just kind of went

9:43

back through and saw like in 2011.

9:46

You wrote or

9:48

published celebrity ink.

9:50

Yeah. In 2013 Love

9:52

Rehab, in 2014 if

9:55

nuns rule the world. I

9:57

love that book. It's so...

10:00

Good. Okay. I have to put that

10:02

on my list. I haven't read that

10:04

one yet. Oh my gosh. Yes. It

10:06

is. It's 10 true stories.

10:09

It's a nonfiction book about

10:11

bad ass feminist nuns trying

10:13

to make life better for women.

10:15

I did not know it was

10:17

nonfiction. That's exciting. Yes. Okay. So

10:20

I will I will definitely put

10:22

that on. It's on my list

10:24

now. We have tech bitch in

10:26

2015. Yeah. The knockoff. Also. in

10:28

2015. Oh, well tech bitch and

10:31

the knockoff are the same book.

10:33

Oh, worry. Fun story about that.

10:35

Tell me. The working title was

10:37

always tech bitch. It's a novel.

10:39

It's kind of an all about

10:42

Eve for the tech world where

10:44

an old school magazine editor gets

10:46

pushed out of the way by a

10:48

younger upstart techie. But, uh, it was

10:51

always called Tech Bitch and in the

10:53

States they didn't want to call it

10:55

that because Barnes and Noble and Target

10:57

were like a week after a book that

11:00

says bitch. That has changed since 2015 but

11:02

the Brits were like we love it. We

11:04

love it, bring it. And you know I

11:06

mean it's sold well in both countries but

11:08

I think it's sold even better in the

11:10

UK because it's a better title. That's

11:12

a great title. I know.

11:14

I mean, I would pick

11:17

it up just because of

11:19

the title. I know, I

11:21

think it should be re-done

11:23

and re-issued as tech bench

11:25

in the U.S. to see

11:27

what happens. Put that on

11:30

your, like, probably empty to-do

11:32

list. I'll put it in

11:34

here. I'll do a sticky

11:36

right now. Charlotte Walsh likes

11:38

to win in 2018. And

11:41

we are not like them in

11:43

2021. You were always mine 2023.

11:45

The Sicilian inheritance in

11:47

2024, which is so far the

11:50

only book of yours that I've

11:52

read, but I'm intending to read

11:54

more. Well, I, you know, the

11:56

Sicilian inheritance, it's, I love that

11:58

one. It is. love that one.

12:00

Bernie murder mystery novel with the

12:03

right amount of taking down the

12:05

patriarchy. Well it is and it's also just

12:07

a page Turner and you know what you

12:09

know what it felt like and this is

12:11

what it feels like to me when I

12:13

read great books it felt like you and

12:15

I read great books it felt like you

12:17

and I were having a conversation so

12:19

when I went back and when I

12:21

would you know be going around my

12:23

day I'm like what was that conversation

12:25

what were I talking about talking about

12:27

to that person and then I picked

12:29

up I read it last summer. Scott

12:31

and I celebrate our anniversary on

12:34

July 14th every year and we

12:36

go away. And so I read

12:38

it during our vacation. It was

12:41

the right time to read it.

12:43

It was a perfect, I actually

12:45

posted a picture of me in

12:47

my lounge chair by the pool.

12:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, reading it. And,

12:52

you know, someone else gave me

12:54

a blanket. That's exactly

12:56

the same color as your covers. So

12:59

I had them together in my office,

13:01

like a setup for a long

13:03

time. I'll send you a picture of

13:05

that too. I mean to see

13:08

this, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And

13:10

so this year, you're publishing, everyone

13:12

is lying to you. Yes, yes,

13:14

this year, July 15th, everyone is

13:16

lying to you. I just got

13:19

galleys, they just, they just came.

13:21

How exciting, will you send me?

13:23

Yeah, I will, I will, absolutely,

13:25

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unlock your drama. All right,

14:43

so here's my question just

14:45

about this. Forget the podcast,

14:48

the feral kids, the husband.

14:50

How do you do this?

14:52

Are you constantly writing? This

14:54

is an incredible. body of

14:56

work. You know, this is this is

14:58

not every author like I have a

15:00

lot of authors on the show. I'll

15:03

go back through and see how

15:05

many books they've written and what

15:07

they are every time. I've never

15:09

seen this many books in succession

15:12

like this. So tell me. Do you

15:14

want me to tell you something

15:16

even crazier right now? Yeah. So there

15:18

was a little gap in there.

15:20

I was having babies. but I

15:22

also ghostwrote two novels for the TV

15:25

show Younger. Stop. No, I did. I

15:27

did. If anyone's a fan of the

15:29

TV show Younger, you know, it's about

15:32

the publishing industry and I love the

15:34

show Younger and Christine was my editor

15:36

at the time and Darren Starr had

15:38

approached her being like, do you think

15:41

we could have someone write the novel

15:43

marriage vacation that is featured in the

15:45

show? And so I wrote marriage vacation

15:47

for the younger TV show and then

15:50

wrote a kind of sequel. from

15:52

Charles's perspective also. So there were

15:54

two novels for the TV show

15:57

Younger in there, which were a

15:59

lot of fun. Well, that's got to

16:01

be like, there's less stake in it

16:03

for you, right? Like you get really.

16:05

My name wasn't on them, right? I

16:08

mean, there was like, there was a

16:10

story in EW that I'd written them,

16:12

but like my name wasn't on them.

16:14

And Christine and I really collaborated a

16:16

lot on those novels because she was

16:19

the editor. So it was our first

16:21

time seeing if we could actually write

16:23

together. Yeah, I love that. But so,

16:25

so tell me how. I'll tell you

16:28

out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't get

16:30

it. I am constantly writing. I

16:32

mean, I write every single day. I'm

16:34

often working on more than

16:36

one project at a time, although

16:39

I'm trying not to. It's just

16:41

sometimes deadlines overlap and you can't

16:43

do anything about it. The truth is

16:45

I'm a very fast writer. I'm a

16:47

very efficient writer because I was a

16:50

newspaper writer for so long. Okay. So,

16:52

you know, I was writing on daily

16:54

deadlines for the New York Daily News.

16:57

for a really long time and

16:59

if you didn't file copy you're

17:01

not going to have a job.

17:03

So I just I don't get

17:05

writers block. I'm very efficient. I

17:08

can also write from anywhere any

17:10

time because I was on the road

17:12

a lot. I was a gossip columnist,

17:14

I was a political reporter, and

17:16

so I was constantly chasing down

17:18

celebrities on the road at award

17:20

shows and then on the campaign

17:23

trails after that. And just I

17:25

would plop down in an airport

17:27

or honestly in an airport bathroom

17:29

sometimes because that was the only

17:31

place where I could find an

17:33

outlet. on the ground and right

17:35

from my Blackberry or polyp and

17:37

my big heavy laptop. Remember how

17:40

heavy laptop is to be? Yes.

17:42

Yeah. And right anywhere any time.

17:44

And that has served me well now

17:46

having the kids because I make

17:48

myself right every day. My novel,

17:50

whatever novel I'm working on, is

17:52

always the priority first thing in

17:54

the morning. So and I have

17:56

full-time child care. I say this

17:58

all the time. I scream from

18:00

the rooftops. I'm not someone pretending that

18:03

I do all the things. I have

18:05

so much help. So we have full-time

18:07

childcare. We have an au pair who lives

18:10

with us and she has the kids from

18:12

9 to 4.30 every day. My husband or

18:14

I, we do try to do drop off

18:16

for the kids, although he does drop off

18:18

way more now because I've taken on a

18:20

lot of work and I'm a bad sleeper

18:22

so I need that extra sleep in the

18:25

morning. So I'm starting at 9 in

18:27

the morning, I sit down and I

18:29

start novel writing or novel editing and

18:31

I get that out of the way

18:33

before I do any of my other

18:35

work, before I do podcast interviews, before

18:37

I do any consulting work or editing.

18:40

It's always that novel because my brain

18:42

has to be the freshest to be

18:44

able to write. I can't do it

18:46

otherwise. It's always astounding to me when

18:48

I read stories of like Hemingway or

18:50

Fitzgerald who were just drunk all the

18:52

time. when they were writing because the

18:55

only time I just said I can write

18:57

anywhere any time the only time I

18:59

can't write is when I'm drunk or

19:01

hung over and so like that just

19:03

kills it for me I have to

19:05

be very very clear-headed. That's really interesting

19:07

so so nine o'clock is usually when

19:10

you're starting then. Yeah, nine in

19:12

the morning. Nine in the morning. Because

19:14

the kids get up like around seven.

19:16

And I mean, this morning I slept

19:18

till 8.30. I slept fully through wake

19:20

up and kid drop off because my

19:22

mom spent the night last night. So

19:24

she was hanging out with them and

19:26

it was doing drop-offs and stuff. And

19:28

then I work through the day. I'm

19:30

usually, I am also really meticulous

19:33

about trying to schedule workouts in

19:35

my workday. So I usually reserve 12 to

19:37

1 for workouts almost every day. And

19:40

my workspace when I leave the house

19:42

to work has a gym. So I

19:44

work out there and there's a pool

19:46

and a gym. Because that's really important.

19:49

It's really important to my mental

19:51

health, my physical health now as

19:53

a 44-year-old woman, making that time.

19:55

And then I'm pretty much, unless

19:57

I'm really overwhelmed, done by 4.30.

19:59

and then try to put it away

20:02

for the night. So then you're with

20:04

your kids? So then I'm with my

20:06

kids. Yeah. With my kids. Or we

20:08

do, we try to do a date

20:10

night once a week too. Nice. When

20:12

we can. And sometimes those are even

20:15

working date nights of like let's go

20:17

through our schedule, let's make a plan.

20:19

But then I'm with the kids and

20:21

I put them to bed every single

20:24

night. Well, that that makes sense.

20:26

And I really appreciate you

20:28

talking about the privilege of

20:30

having full-time child care. Because

20:32

without that, there would be a

20:34

much different schedule, not that you

20:36

wouldn't be able to write, but

20:38

it would look much different. I don't

20:41

think I'd be able to do the

20:43

majority of the things that I do.

20:45

And I will say what I think

20:47

is very interesting. I do a lot

20:50

of interviews, right? And again, ask the

20:52

question that you asked me, but... You

20:54

didn't phrase it the way that

20:56

I often get it phrased. Like

20:58

people assume that I'm juggling these

21:00

children and my writing at the

21:02

same time. Like that assumption is

21:04

usually inherent when the question gets

21:06

asked. And I like that you didn't do it

21:09

because it's usually there. And as

21:11

if writing worked a job, right? Like I

21:13

don't think anyone would ask that of like

21:15

a lawyer. No one would be like how

21:17

do you juggle your lawyering with your kids?

21:20

Yeah. They would just assume their... out of

21:22

the house and not having child care.

21:24

Right. And I interviewed a woman on

21:26

my podcast on under the influence

21:28

who's a farmer. And we were

21:31

talking about the reality of being

21:33

a female farmer versus what we

21:35

see on social media, right? Of

21:37

just, you know, these hobby farms

21:39

and hashtag homesteading. And we're talking

21:41

about how hard it is to

21:43

genuinely be a farmer in the

21:45

world. But she gets asked the

21:47

same question. Or people will be like,

21:50

your daughter must love just being able to

21:52

run around with the farm with you. And

21:54

she's like, no, she's in daycare. Yeah. Because

21:56

farming is my work. Right, right. Yes. And

21:59

to make that. to make that

22:01

distinction. I think that a lot

22:03

of jobs when women are doing

22:05

them certain jobs, jobs that could

22:07

be seen as hobbies sometimes. Oh,

22:10

thank you for that. Yes. We

22:12

assume, oh, your kids just must

22:14

be running around while you do

22:16

this little writing thing. And I'm

22:18

like, no, I'm the breadwinner of

22:21

my family. I'm like, I'm the

22:23

person supporting us. So they are

22:25

with a caregiver. Yes, three snaps

22:28

to that. And the priority

22:30

is not just prioritizing your

22:33

creativity, but prioritizing

22:35

your job. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

22:37

Yeah, which is. And I'm fascinated

22:39

by the workout in the middle

22:42

of the day. I think that

22:44

wouldn't work for me. I got to

22:46

do mine earlier. Oh, see, I

22:48

can't do it early, but I

22:50

just, because I'm a slow mover

22:52

in the morning. Yeah, yeah, and

22:54

I'm a morning person. So, yeah,

22:56

my workout energy is best. I

22:58

teach a memoir class and I

23:00

often interview my author friends and

23:02

say, what's your writing schedule? What's

23:04

your writing routine? Like, what do you

23:06

do you do? And, you know, the. The

23:09

answers are all different, but

23:11

everybody has this time prioritized

23:14

for their writing. Yes, and

23:16

it's not someone's job all the

23:18

time. I mean, so that brings

23:21

them another point because, you

23:23

know, most books sell about 500

23:25

copies over the lifetime of the

23:28

book. Most of the authors I

23:30

know do not make a living

23:32

from their writing, but what

23:34

I'm hearing from you is you

23:36

do. Is that correct? Yeah, 100%.

23:38

That's really rare. That's rare

23:40

error that you're breathing. Yeah,

23:42

yeah. I mean, I do,

23:45

I will say, I have like

23:47

five jobs. Yeah. You know, I

23:49

write books, but I am able

23:52

to make a living off

23:54

of the books, but I

23:56

also make podcasts, and I

23:58

do consulting. on, I don't even

24:01

want to say it's on the side,

24:03

it's just part of this portfolio of

24:05

my career. And then, you know, I

24:07

have my sub stack, which is called

24:09

Over the Influence, and that brings in

24:11

revenue streams too. I think that writers

24:14

these days have to have a lot of

24:16

different revenue streams. We used to live

24:18

in a world where you could be

24:20

a freelance writer. Right? And then maybe

24:23

you'd write a book every 10 years

24:25

or something. And that book would be

24:27

like enough to buy your house in

24:29

Sag Harbor. Like I'm thinking about my

24:31

payday of magazines and the people that

24:33

I know that were like a generation

24:36

older than me. But the market for

24:38

freelance writing doesn't exist anymore. So, you

24:40

know, I think we are all kind

24:42

of hustling and figuring out these

24:45

different different revenue streams. And I

24:47

hustle my butt off for these books

24:49

too. Sicilian inheritance is

24:51

about to hit 100,000

24:53

copies sold. Okay, that I was

24:55

going to ask you about that

24:58

because seventh printing is what I

25:00

what I wrote down. Is that

25:02

right? It's on its seventh printing.

25:04

We are about to hit 100,000

25:06

in all formats. Damn. Which

25:09

is amazing. It is amazing.

25:11

Yes. And I will say though, I

25:13

have hustled for that book to, you

25:15

know, stay top of mind. to stay

25:18

in bookstores to I visit almost

25:20

every book club that asks me. I

25:22

keep telling people tell more people about

25:24

this book because word of mouth matters

25:27

so much. So I've been a

25:29

really intense hustler for that one and

25:31

now I've started hustling for the new

25:33

one everyone is lying to you that

25:36

comes out in July and the

25:38

hustling and the publicity and the marketing

25:40

to sell these books is a whole

25:42

other job. I mean I spend so

25:44

much time on it. Yeah, that's the

25:46

other thing that I think people

25:48

don't realize is that if you

25:50

are fortunate enough to find an

25:53

agent who can, you know, sell

25:55

your book to an editor at

25:57

a big five publishing house or

25:59

whatever. a publishing house at

26:01

this point. And then you think,

26:03

okay, once you and the editor

26:06

have edited your manuscript,

26:08

then you're done. And it's so

26:10

not done. It's when this whole

26:13

other world of work begins,

26:15

and maybe even before that.

26:17

Yeah, even before that. I would say

26:19

it's done for maybe a select 0.02%

26:21

of authors who don't have to do

26:23

that for whatever reason. Like name one

26:25

of those authors, do you think? I'm

26:27

not going to name them. It would

26:30

be bad Joo-joo. I mean, there's the

26:32

obvious ones, like Stephen King, right? But

26:34

then there's another one, like, Sally Rooney

26:36

doesn't have to do it. Uh, then

26:38

there, but then there's some other ones

26:40

that I will say the publishing house

26:42

is kind of annoyed that they're, that

26:44

they're, that they're like, that they're

26:46

like, that they're like, We're going

26:49

to make sure this book is

26:51

everywhere. Yeah, we're going to spend

26:53

$500,000 on this book Yeah, yeah,

26:55

that is not the majority of

26:57

books Mm-hmm So Okay, yeah, I

27:00

wanted to talk to you about the

27:02

Sicilian inheritance because like I said

27:04

I I was so just into

27:06

it and I loved it and

27:08

I read it so quickly and

27:11

and you're doing a podcast I

27:13

did a podcast. You did a

27:15

podcast. I did a podcast. Yeah.

27:17

So is it done? It's finished.

27:19

Yeah, you can find the Sicilian

27:22

inheritance podcast wherever you get podcasts.

27:24

I call, I also called it

27:26

the Sicilian inheritance because why should

27:28

life be harder? Why should

27:30

people be googling? Joe Piazza,

27:32

Sicilian inheritance. Is there a

27:34

podcast? It's also just called

27:36

the Sicilian inheritance. Yes. Did you

27:38

solve the murder? I'm not going to say,

27:41

if I solved the murder. Yeah. Because you

27:43

have to listen. You have to listen. I

27:45

can back up and explain a little bit

27:47

what the podcast is, if you want me

27:50

to. Yes. Yeah. So the Sicilian inheritance

27:52

novel is loosely based on this

27:54

story that my family has been

27:56

telling forever and ever. And it's

27:59

the story. of our family matriarch.

28:01

I actually have a picture of her

28:03

on my desk. It just lives here.

28:05

Like this wasn't for this podcast. This

28:07

is our family matriarch. I've seen this

28:10

picture, yeah, yeah. And she was allegedly murdered in

28:12

Sicily before she could join her husband

28:14

and her sons here in America. And

28:16

my family has passed that story down,

28:18

but they always focused on the men

28:21

in this story. They're like, they came

28:23

here, they built a life. Oh, and

28:25

she was killed. By the way, most

28:27

of my family didn't even know her

28:29

name, okay? And I kept thinking about

28:32

this, and I just did this little

28:34

research into Sicilian women around that time

28:36

period. and learned that when so many

28:38

men came to America, the women were

28:40

left on their own to run the

28:42

businesses, to buy and sell land, to

28:44

lend money. They were in control of

28:46

their lives for the first time. And

28:48

this isn't just for like six months

28:50

or a year. It was for decades

28:52

at a time, often before the women

28:55

came over. And many times when the

28:57

men called them to America to say,

28:59

it's time to come to Cleveland or

29:01

Scrant and the women were like, I don

29:03

long ago. Right. And so it got

29:05

me to thinking about this story

29:07

of my great-great-grandmother and, you know,

29:09

what would her life have been

29:11

like there in Sicily alone while

29:13

her husband is gone? And that's,

29:15

that is the only part of

29:17

the Sicilian inheritance that, you know,

29:19

is based on my family's story.

29:21

The rest, I then spun this

29:24

murder mystery set in dual timelines

29:26

and I wanted to write fiction.

29:28

It was during the pandemic and

29:30

I just wanted to escape, right

29:32

into this writing. Yeah, yeah. And

29:34

because at that point I had two

29:36

small kids, the third one came later. And

29:38

after the book was done, once I had

29:40

turned it all in, I was like, because

29:42

I'm an incredibly thorough content creator, I

29:44

was like, well, now I've got to

29:47

solve this murder. Now I've got to

29:49

solve Lorenza's murder in real life and

29:51

figure out what happened. And you know,

29:53

I'm not just going to solve it.

29:55

I'm going to make a true crime

29:57

podcast out of it. That's right. That's

29:59

right. So I did, I took my whole

30:01

family to Sicily to solve a

30:04

murder the summer after I turned

30:06

the book in. While I was

30:08

there, I did have a couple

30:10

of days to revise the book

30:12

itself and I used that time

30:14

to eat every dish that I

30:16

mentioned in the Sicilian inheritance to

30:18

make sure that the food was

30:20

intensely accurate. Like the book makes

30:22

you hungry. It does. It absolutely

30:24

does. Yeah. As

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32:22

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32:24

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32:27

It's called something you should know.

32:29

I'm the host, Michael Rothers, and

32:31

in each episode we discuss topics

32:33

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32:35

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32:37

psychology of crowds, or fun things

32:39

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32:41

why you probably wouldn't be here

32:43

if it weren't for horses. Something

32:45

you should know is the name

32:48

of it, wherever you get your podcast.

32:50

And you know, you're talking

32:52

about a period in time,

32:55

you're talking about your great-great

32:57

grandmother, right? Yeah. people didn't

33:00

necessarily meet Mary for love.

33:02

Right? So why should they

33:04

want to then join their

33:06

husbands in the states when

33:09

they have like delicious freedom,

33:11

right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

33:13

So I went back to Sicily.

33:15

I ended up, I found all

33:17

of these records. I got so many

33:20

leads. I discovered so much about Lorenz.

33:22

I also. then got access to the

33:24

Homicide and Mafia Records from 1916, of

33:26

which I had to then drop everything

33:28

and fly back to Sicily about six

33:31

months later. And the podcast is a

33:33

romp. I mean, it's the process of

33:35

me doing this. It's finding the records,

33:37

doing the interviews, doing the interviews, also

33:39

a travel log to Sicily, which is

33:42

a lot of fun. But the thing

33:44

I was going to tell you is,

33:46

and the podcast, you know, we finished it's

33:48

eight episodes. But I got an email

33:50

the other day from someone who read

33:52

the Sicilian inheritance. Who is likely related

33:55

to me, someone I have never heard

33:57

of before, who has new information

33:59

about them? Oh, spicy. Right? Yes.

34:01

And so I'm going to meet

34:03

her next week and find this

34:06

information out. We'll make a bonus

34:08

episode. Oh, in real life, meet

34:10

her? I'm going to meet her in

34:12

real life. Yeah. Wow. I know.

34:15

I know. I know. She lives

34:17

in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Stop.

34:19

No. That's crazy. I know. It's

34:21

bananas. And so, yeah. This is

34:23

what happens when you put a

34:25

story out in the world. Yes.

34:27

Every single time. Thank you so

34:29

much for that and thank you for

34:31

giving us a scoop. I love that.

34:34

So I want to talk about everyone

34:36

is lying to you. I just

34:38

wanted to just talk about

34:40

your Instagram for a minute

34:42

though because I love it. It's

34:44

like every single post is like

34:46

a chapter of a book. Like that's

34:48

how I look at it. So like

34:51

I was reading all the chapters

34:53

on the eagles. Yes. Well because

34:55

we're in Philadelphia. Yes. It was

34:57

a big deal. Yeah, both my

34:59

husband and I are fairly agnostic

35:01

and religiously. So we say we're

35:03

raising our children for Philadelphia to

35:05

be their religion, you know, their

35:07

sense of community and like what

35:09

they believe in and cheer for

35:12

and how we come together with

35:14

people. And so the Eagles winning

35:16

the Super Bowl, especially when you

35:18

have an eight-year-old, is a big

35:20

deal. Yeah. I mean, and... Bradley

35:22

Cooper serving up cheese day Bradley

35:24

Cooper was here serving cheese day.

35:27

We had two million people come

35:29

out for our parade Wow Yeah,

35:31

it's really it's really special and

35:33

what I love the most is

35:35

that when when it is Eagle season

35:38

and you know on Sundays you say go

35:40

birds to people and they respond, go birds.

35:42

But we were in Nashville the day of

35:44

the Super Bowl and we had our Eagles,

35:46

and we flew back in time for the

35:49

Super Bowl. We had our Eagles gear on

35:51

and people would just come up to us

35:53

and be like, go birds. And we're like,

35:55

go birds to you too. It is like

35:57

a blessing and a greeting. That's so good.

35:59

I never heard go birds until

36:02

the Super Bowl. Oh yeah, yeah,

36:04

it's a real thing. You also

36:06

have kind of a legacy of

36:08

black quarterbacks, which I love. I

36:11

know. I usually, I don't know,

36:13

I don't know, I don't really

36:15

follow football, I don't know, I

36:17

don't really follow football, I don't

36:19

know that much about it, but

36:22

whoever's in the Super Bowl, if

36:24

they have a black quarterback, I'm

36:26

rooting for them. That win was

36:28

the most handsome man on the

36:30

planet? Is that what you were

36:32

going to say? Because yes. It

36:34

was really nice to watch him

36:36

when it was really nice. And

36:38

I felt it. I felt that

36:40

swell of love from the city.

36:42

Yeah. and the pride and the

36:44

celebration of it, it just felt

36:46

really worth it. Like yeah, the

36:49

Eagles needed to win that. We

36:51

needed to win that and it

36:53

was also just like such a

36:55

good person. Yeah. Which and I love

36:57

it, I love it when, you know, good people

36:59

thrive. Right, right. Okay, so going

37:01

down to other posts, the Gulf

37:04

of Mexico becoming the Gulf of

37:06

America, and I feel like we're

37:08

going to tie this into everyone's

37:11

lying to you. summer child care for

37:13

kids and how you know we don't

37:15

have that here and other countries do

37:17

there was one post where you're playing

37:19

Maga Guess Who? Yeah well actually

37:21

that's someone else playing Maga Guess

37:24

Who because I printed out our

37:26

Maga Guess Who. It was it

37:28

was someone on Instagram had that

37:30

idea to play Maga Guess Who

37:32

because we do play a lot

37:34

of inappropriate guess who in our

37:36

house. You know one where you're

37:38

like does your person live in

37:41

your parents in their parents' basement?

37:43

Right. Is your person a small-time

37:45

pot dealer? Yes. I've been saying

37:47

that for years. And I thought

37:49

the magga guess who when I

37:51

saw it was so good because

37:54

it's like, has your person had

37:56

a lot of botched fillers?

37:58

Right. And

38:01

it works for both men

38:03

and women in a party

38:05

to be honest. Yeah, yeah,

38:07

yeah, really interesting. Yes. I

38:09

also really enjoyed your, because

38:12

I'm assignment issues to your

38:14

author too, that they're no

38:16

longer requiring author blurbs. I

38:18

totally agree. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah,

38:20

I mean I posted that and

38:22

I had so many authors write

38:24

to me and just say. Thank

38:26

God. I wish the entire

38:28

industry would follow suit with

38:30

getting rid. I do not know.

38:33

I do not know. I don't think

38:35

readers pay any attention to author blurbs

38:37

for a long time. I do

38:39

think booksellers did as

38:41

a way to indicate I should

38:44

pay attention to this book. What

38:46

if that wasn't the way to

38:48

indicate to pay attention? Because the

38:51

author blurb process, its authors literally

38:53

just begging people that they may

38:55

know that someone they know knows,

38:57

begging them to do it, it

38:59

is like prostrating yourself in front

39:02

of someone that you respect

39:04

a lot. I for a long time

39:06

had a policy of blurbing absolutely everyone

39:09

who asked me and because I know

39:11

how hard it is. stupid name on

39:13

a book could help someone. I would

39:16

happily do that. And I'm now about

39:18

to move into the world of, I'm

39:20

not gonna do any of them because

39:23

I don't think we should be doing

39:25

them. Yes, yes. And be like, I

39:27

will help you with your book. Like

39:29

when you're coming out, send it to

39:31

me, I will put it on my

39:33

stuff. But like, I don't think

39:35

we should keep supporting. this process.

39:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree. It

39:39

was one of the things that was

39:41

shocking to me when I, when we

39:43

started to go into that and the

39:45

blurb, you know, for people who were

39:47

listening who don't know or like those

39:49

reviews from our authors on the back

39:51

of the book jacket, sometimes on the

39:53

front of the book, and, and, and

39:56

yes, typically for the last, I don't

39:58

know how many years, the authors. have

40:00

had to go out and solicit

40:02

those, which is a big ask.

40:04

You're asking somebody to read it

40:06

and like it and to write

40:08

a stellar review basically of your

40:10

book. Okay, so I want to use

40:12

the rest of our time wisely. I

40:15

did want to talk about you

40:17

being in the ER in the

40:19

health care system because we rescheduled

40:21

our interview because that day,

40:23

I think you were in the ER. I was

40:25

in the ER and I thought that I might

40:27

get out and be able to do it.

40:30

And then I was like, you're not

40:32

a hero, Piazza. Reschedule,

40:34

everyone's going to understand. Yes,

40:36

yeah. But before we get

40:38

into the nation's health care

40:41

system and the bulk of

40:43

America, Let's talk about, because we had

40:45

T. Alevings on, I don't know if you

40:47

knew that. Oh my gosh, yes, I love

40:49

T.S. So much, and she blurt, she is

40:51

a friend of mine. Yeah. I have had

40:54

her on the podcast, and I talked to

40:56

her a lot. and I asked her

40:58

to blurb the book and she

41:00

graciously didn't. But again, because she

41:02

is a friend of mine, like

41:04

I almost wish that I could

41:06

put on the blurb, like this

41:09

person blurb this because I personally

41:11

know them. Right, right. This was

41:13

not one of those acts where

41:15

you're asking to cold call somebody

41:17

or cold write somebody. I don't

41:19

call anyone anymore. That's the thing.

41:21

Well, actually that's a lie because

41:23

we did want freedom McFadden to

41:25

blurb. Everyone everyone. Right, right. So

41:28

it's this very like support

41:30

network thing for the blurbs

41:32

and not No, I do think you're

41:35

not going to blare a book

41:37

if you genuinely don't like it,

41:39

but it's access, right? I'm able

41:41

to access people because I have

41:43

these podcasts, because I have this

41:45

platform, because I've met them through

41:47

other ways. If you are a

41:49

brand new author, a debut author,

41:51

who probably doesn't live in New

41:53

York City or isn't around LA

41:55

and isn't around media people, how

41:57

are you supposed to do this?

42:00

I don't, that's the thing. It's

42:02

not fair and it's not fair.

42:04

No. So anyway, so we had

42:06

Tia on the podcast and we

42:08

loved her and that was the

42:10

first time I heard Trodwife. Oh,

42:12

I've never heard that term

42:14

before and can you just

42:16

tell us what everyone is lying

42:19

to you is about? And if that

42:21

term is part of it, then

42:23

explain that term for us too.

42:26

Yeah, absolutely. By the way,

42:28

everyone should buy Tia's book

42:30

a well-trained wife. It's a

42:32

memoir about her escape from

42:34

the Christian patriarchy. And Tradwife

42:36

is this thing that started

42:38

on social media about two

42:40

years ago. And it began

42:43

as women kind of cosplaying,

42:45

like acting as characters from

42:47

a more nostalgic time, typically

42:49

two time periods, the 1950s,

42:51

so they dress up like

42:53

1950s, housewives, or like homesteaders,

42:56

Laura Ingalls Wilder time,

42:58

you know, in those

43:00

flowy, peasanty, flowery, very

43:02

expensive dresses from Darwin.

43:04

And, you know, they're showing off

43:06

the domestic arts. They're cooking,

43:09

they're often soft cleaning, but

43:11

you're never going to see

43:13

a toilet. And it's, but

43:16

it's not Martha Stewart level

43:18

of domesticity. It's more an

43:20

I'm in the home because men

43:23

should be. the breadwinner, because

43:25

women's only role is to

43:27

be in the home because

43:30

women's only roles are to

43:32

be a mother and to

43:34

serve men. And so it's

43:36

very different from the domestic

43:38

goddess brands of years past

43:41

and also from women who

43:43

are working inside the home,

43:45

as working moms inside the

43:47

home, right, who are caregiving

43:49

and doing that kind of

43:52

labor. This is a very

43:54

intensely patriarchal bent to the

43:56

idea of a woman working within

43:59

the home. doing domestic labor. And

44:01

it's only grown in the past

44:03

two years to the extent that

44:05

some of these women have millions

44:07

and millions of followers and very

44:10

intense political views about women belonging

44:12

in the home, women dropping out

44:14

of the workforce, women having as

44:16

many babies as possible, eradicating birth

44:18

control, and eradicating abortion. All of

44:20

those political ideals end up embedded in a

44:22

lot of this content and you don't even

44:25

know you're getting it surfed to you because

44:27

it's all just pretty, right? You're like, I

44:29

just came for the sourdough, but oh my

44:32

God, they told me my birth control was

44:34

killing me. Right. Right. It's like being smacked

44:36

in the face, or actually not even smacked

44:38

in the face, like, you know, a little

44:40

tiny paper cut that you don't even realize

44:42

that you're getting. And the

44:45

crazy part of this is you're

44:47

seeing these women making their sourdough,

44:49

walking around barefoot in their field

44:51

with their heritage chickens. And they're

44:54

saying, you know, I live to

44:56

be a mom. My husband is

44:58

the breadwinner in my family, but

45:00

they're making so much money off

45:03

being an influencer. They're running a

45:05

media brand. So I started reporting

45:07

on Tradwives. I somehow became America's leading

45:09

expert on Tradwives. I've been quoted. I'm

45:12

like Nightline and all of these other

45:14

shows talking about Tradwives because I also

45:16

used to be a political reporter, right?

45:19

So I was able to see this

45:21

for what it was right off the

45:23

bat, which is propaganda. And the

45:26

right wing. And a lot

45:28

of fundamental Christian organizations have propped

45:30

up a lot of these influencers

45:33

and used them to softly proselytize

45:35

on social media. Interesting. So

45:37

I was reporting on them and

45:39

I just, you know, it's a world,

45:42

man. And a world that was ripe for

45:44

some kind of fun novelization. So I

45:46

just started playing around with it. And

45:48

I was honestly writing this for fun.

45:50

I was like, what if I write

45:52

a Tradwife murder mystery? What if the

45:54

Tradwives all start just murdering their husbands?

45:56

What's going to happen then? I'd never

45:58

written, like, Sicilian inheritance. is a murder

46:00

mystery, but it's a very involved

46:03

one. This is just a bananas

46:05

gonzo murder thriller. And I was

46:07

having so much fun with it. And

46:09

I eventually said to my editor, I was

46:11

like, what if we did this? And

46:13

she was like, okay, okay. I was

46:15

like, but you have to do it

46:17

so fast. Because this is in the

46:19

world right now. And my editor, mine

46:21

is like, we don't do things fast. And

46:24

I'm like, I know. But what if we

46:26

try? And I was like, what if it

46:28

comes out in paperback? Can it be faster

46:30

than? And the answer was yes. And you

46:32

know, this is a very like in-business

46:34

publishing insider thing, but my

46:37

agent and everyone that I worked with

46:39

was like, are you sure you want

46:41

to do a paperback? You always write

46:43

hard covers first, and then they turn

46:46

the paperback. And I was like, I

46:48

have no ego. as a writer. I'm

46:50

like, I want the book to be

46:52

in the best format to reach the

46:55

most amount of readers and a murder

46:57

mystery coming out in July. Yeah, people

46:59

want a fucking paper back. Okay. I

47:01

hate reading hard covers on the beach.

47:04

And so the worst. It really works.

47:06

Yeah. They're unwieldy. They get destroyed. You

47:08

feel guilty. They're heavy. Yeah. Okay.

47:10

So I was like, all right.

47:12

Paperback. We can be fast. So

47:14

this turnaround was nine months. Just.

47:16

I wrote it last summer, I

47:18

wrote it in three months last

47:21

summer, turned it in at the

47:23

end of August, and now it

47:25

is, and then we edited it

47:27

by October, and now it's

47:29

coming out in July. That's

47:31

incredibly fast. I've

47:34

never heard of that timeline. Yeah.

47:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean,

47:38

I do think the crazy thing

47:40

is, when I turned it in,

47:42

we didn't know if Trump was

47:44

going to win, right? So we're like,

47:46

well, we'll try to advise still

47:48

be a thing. It's just getting

47:50

bigger and bigger and better. Okay?

47:52

And I think I genuinely believe

47:54

that fiction has the power to

47:56

change hearts and minds in a

47:58

way that it's. often harder for

48:01

nonfiction because you're not going to

48:03

get someone to pick up a

48:05

nonfiction book as often that is

48:07

about something they don't already agree

48:09

with. Yeah. But with fiction you

48:11

can come much like the Tradwives

48:13

and the influencers all of whom

48:15

are just performing for you hence

48:17

the title everyone is lying to you.

48:20

You can kind of slip it in

48:22

right? Like pick up this murder mystery

48:24

and all of a sudden you're like

48:26

I do want to destroy the patriarchy.

48:28

I love that. I never thought of

48:31

that either as a, like to kind

48:33

of, you know, have the message

48:35

contained in this really

48:37

fun poppy beach read.

48:39

Yeah. But there's really a

48:42

message there that wouldn't

48:44

be available to people

48:46

if the message was

48:48

on the cover of

48:50

the book. Right, exactly.

48:53

Exactly. You know, that was

48:55

what Christine and I always said

48:57

about we are not like them,

48:59

which is a book that does

49:02

intensely deal with race and social

49:04

justice. And it's told from the

49:06

perspective of a white woman and

49:09

a black woman grappling with a

49:11

white police officer shooting of a

49:13

black boy. But it's really a

49:16

story about friendship and hope and

49:18

a long time lifelong friendship. And

49:20

it was a Good Morning America

49:22

book club pick, right, with a

49:25

beautiful cover. And so people were

49:27

picking that book up that weren't

49:29

necessarily going to pick up how

49:31

to be an anti-racist.

49:33

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And... We'll be

49:36

right back. From

49:38

the podcast that brought you to each

49:40

of the last lesbian bars in the

49:43

country and back in time through the

49:45

sapphic history that shaped them comes a

49:47

brand new season of cruising beyond the

49:50

bars This is your host Sarah Gabrielli

49:52

and I've spent the past year interviewing

49:54

history making lesbians and queer folks about

49:57

all kinds of queer spaces from bookstores

49:59

to farms dancing and much more.

50:01

You can listen to cruising on

50:03

Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you

50:05

get your podcast. New episodes air

50:07

every other Tuesday starting February 4th. I'm

50:10

Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the

50:12

L.A. Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an

50:15

actor, writer and director. You might know

50:17

me from the League Vep or my

50:19

non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters.

50:21

We come together to host Unspool, a

50:23

podcast where you talk about good movies,

50:26

critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season,

50:28

and Casey mistoms. We're talking

50:31

parasite the home alone. From Greece to the

50:33

Dark Night. So if you love movies like

50:35

we do, come along on our, come along

50:37

on our cinematic adventure. Hello,

50:41

I am Kristen Russo, and

50:43

I am Jenny Owen Young's.

50:45

We are the hosts of

50:47

Buffering the Vampire Slayer once

50:49

more, with spoilers, a rewatch

50:51

podcast covering all 144 episodes

50:53

of, you guessed it, Buffy

50:55

the Vampire Slayer. We are

50:57

here to humbly invite you

50:59

to join us for our

51:01

fifth Buffy prom, which, if

51:03

you can believe it, we

51:05

are hosting at the actual

51:07

Sunnydale High School. That's right.

51:09

On April 4th and 5th, we will

51:11

be descending upon the campus of

51:14

Torrance High School, which was the

51:16

filming location for Buffy's Sunnydale

51:18

High, to dance the night away

51:20

to 90s music in the iconic

51:23

courtyard, to sip on punch right

51:25

next to the Sunnydale High fountain,

51:27

and to nerd out together in

51:29

our prom best inside of the

51:31

set of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

51:33

All information and tickets can be

51:36

found at bufferingcast.com/prom. Come join us.

51:38

You know, it's it's really

51:41

interesting that These types

51:43

of things are You know you

51:45

can you can create a book

51:47

that you're passionate

51:50

about right? Where the cause

51:52

underneath the book you're

51:54

passionate about and then

51:56

still have fun with

51:58

the creation part of it

52:01

because it sounds like you have fun when

52:03

you write even though oh yeah I have

52:05

a last one I write yeah I love

52:07

writing yeah yeah and and so do you we're

52:09

kind of at the end of the interview

52:11

unfortunately so I want to ask

52:13

you if you have an idea

52:15

for your next book well so I'm

52:17

finishing another book right now It

52:19

is due, I thought it was due

52:22

in March, so I've really been

52:24

banging. But my editor, Maya, informed

52:26

me that it's due in June,

52:28

and I'm like, oh my God,

52:30

that's so luxurious. Great, yeah. I

52:32

know, I know, and it's more

52:34

similar to the Sicilian inheritance than

52:36

everyone is lying to you is, but

52:39

it's called the Lost Masterpiece, and

52:41

it takes place on also two

52:43

timelines. The modern day timeline

52:45

is... all-woman art heist that

52:48

takes place in Paris at

52:50

the Mazzette-E-R-Sé. Love that. And

52:52

that will ultimately bring down

52:54

the largest art-dealing family in

52:57

the world. The past timeline

52:59

is the mostly untold story of

53:01

Joe Van Go, who was

53:04

Vincent's sister-in-law, who, when her

53:06

husband died, inherited 300

53:08

worthless paintings. And she fought to make

53:10

him a household name and a brand.

53:12

She is the one that released the

53:14

letters between him and his brother. She

53:17

turned him into, she created a brand.

53:19

She turned him into a madman genius.

53:21

She kept paintings off the market to

53:23

drive the prices up with like all

53:25

of the US new rich guys. She

53:28

all because her husband died when she

53:30

was in her late 20s and she had

53:32

a baby. And she's left poor. She

53:34

had nothing. And so she persevered.

53:36

And she persevered. And she persevered.

53:38

created the most famous artist

53:41

of all time. You have the same name. Joe,

53:43

Joe and I. Except in Dutch, it's yo.

53:45

So Nick and I are going to

53:47

Amsterdam in two weeks. Yes. Yes, that

53:49

was my next question. Because we have

53:52

to. Okay, I started writing the book

53:54

in September in earnest. I had had

53:56

a bunch written already, but I started

53:59

writing in in Paris in September.

54:01

I went there for my best

54:03

friend's birthday and now I'm going

54:05

to finish it up in Amsterdam.

54:07

I love that. My younger son

54:09

who's 25 and his girlfriend just

54:11

spent a week in change in Amsterdam

54:13

over Christmas. Yeah, it's great. And they

54:16

never been there before. I've never been

54:18

there either, but they loved it. And

54:20

the Van Goe Museum, of course, was

54:23

the highlight of their trip. They thought

54:25

it was so beautiful and we

54:27

went to the exhibit when it

54:29

was in LA. The experimental one, you

54:31

know. And, you know, they're not

54:34

like art kids, but for some

54:36

reason that was such a draw

54:38

for them. And so I'm excited

54:40

that you're going to go back

54:42

there. Yeah, me too. And I

54:44

didn't know any of that story.

54:46

So this is yet another thing.

54:48

People don't, you know, I heard

54:50

about it. Really interesting. My

54:53

friend Stephen. is an artist,

54:55

Stephen Weinberg, and he was working

54:57

on a kid's young adult book,

54:59

graphic, graphic book, called What is

55:02

Color? And it's the history and

55:04

science of color. It's such a

55:06

good book. It's a great gift

55:09

for like ages six through college

55:11

because it dives into the history,

55:14

philosophy, and science of how

55:16

every single color in the world

55:18

is made. Oh. And he put

55:20

the idea in my head and

55:22

then I finally got around to

55:24

writing it. And he's like, if

55:26

only I knew a feminist novelist

55:28

who wants to novelize this and

55:30

like, I'm on it, Stephen. Say

55:32

less. I'm on it. So that

55:34

was four years ago. And he

55:36

put the idea in my head

55:39

and then I finally got around

55:41

to writing it. I love it.

55:43

And and. the book you're working

55:45

with Christine on right it's also

55:47

I never knew you at all

55:49

yeah yeah that's also coming out

55:51

so those are so there's

55:53

a the new recommitted podcast

55:56

that'll be new that book and then

55:58

the book that you every everyone

56:00

is lying to us will be out

56:03

in July. Yep. And then you'll

56:05

be in the meantime working on

56:07

this other book and probably

56:09

quite, you know, quickly getting

56:12

that one out into people's

56:14

hands as well. So yeah, yeah,

56:16

that one, I think that one's

56:19

2027. And that's reasonable. Yeah, totally,

56:21

totally. I think, yeah, that makes

56:23

sense. It's 2026. No, it's 2026.

56:26

I lied to you. Lost. I

56:28

might do nonfiction next, because I

56:30

haven't done one since I started

56:33

breeding, because it's just easier to

56:35

make shit up when I have

56:37

the babies. But I'm really fascinated

56:39

by the rise of the female

56:42

breadwinner in this country, and I think

56:44

in a lot of ways it's led

56:46

us to Trump, because men have felt

56:48

less than as women make more money.

56:51

And so I want to explore that.

56:53

Please do. Please do. a series of

56:55

friends in different areas of my life

56:57

where the woman is the red winner

56:59

of the family. Yes, it's the majority

57:01

of my friends right now. Yeah, I

57:03

think it might be the majority of

57:05

mine as well. I mean, certainly there

57:08

are two income households where they're equal

57:10

is, but I don't know anybody that doesn't

57:12

work. I just don't know that person

57:14

in my life right now. No, no.

57:16

And I've just what I've seen is

57:18

so many of the husbands being laid

57:20

off. Yeah. And then not being able

57:22

to go back into the workforce. And

57:24

so the women are the ones picking

57:26

up the slack because I will say

57:28

that women are better at pivoting. So

57:30

that one is called Bread, the Rise

57:32

of the Female Bread Winner, and I

57:34

haven't sold it to Maya yet, but I

57:36

just keep saying it out loud. And one

57:38

of those patients will listen to

57:40

the podcast and be like, fine.

57:42

Thank you. Thank you so much. I

57:45

loved our talk. I could I could

57:47

talk to you forever and I'm intending

57:49

to call back and talk to you

57:51

some more about different things because... Done.

57:54

Absolutely. I'll come on any time. Yes,

57:56

a fountain of wisdom and what a

57:58

great resource. And just... you know,

58:00

just to have somebody who is

58:02

doing what you're doing and so

58:04

happy about it. I love your

58:07

disposition. This is, this is the

58:09

good stuff, you know, that you

58:11

get. And thank you for sharing

58:13

that with us. Thank you for

58:15

coming on the show. Thanks for

58:17

having me. Thank you so much

58:19

for listening. The only one in

58:21

the room is produced by the

58:23

Smashing and Stellar, Kaylin Bean, and

58:26

executively produced by the Man, the

58:28

Myth, the Magic, Scott Slaughter, who

58:30

I call Hein. Hey, you're still

58:32

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58:34

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58:36

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58:40

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1:00:01

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1:00:05

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1:00:07

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Disney Magic check out Disney Countdown

1:00:21

wherever you get your podcast. erstwhile

1:00:23

monk turned traveling medical investigator. Join

1:00:26

me as I study the secrets

1:00:28

of the divine plagues and uncover

1:00:30

the blasphemous truth that ours is

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not a loving God. And we

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are not its favoured children. The

1:00:37

heresies of Red Old Pantwine, wherever

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podcasts are available. We're the ghost

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story guys. And every two weeks

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we explore first-person stories of encounters

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with the paranormal from all around

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the world. Then we have some

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fun reacting to those stories. We

1:00:53

like to say our goal is

1:00:55

to scare the hell out of

1:00:57

you, then make you laugh. Belief

1:01:00

in the paranormal is not required.

1:01:02

All you need is a love

1:01:04

of great storytelling and curiosity about

1:01:06

the world around you. Subscribe to

1:01:09

the ghost story guys now on

1:01:11

your favorite podcastra to hear episodes

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like High Strangeness in Chicago. the

1:01:15

mystery of missing time and the

1:01:18

haunting of Vietnam along with dozens

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of others. We've talked about mythical

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bridges, doppelgangers, haunted seaside towns and

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so much more. Remember that story

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about the guy who was trapped

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inside a dream and something was

1:01:31

hunting him? That was... I was

1:01:34

upsetting. Yes, yes it was. Want

1:01:36

us to help ruin your sleep?

1:01:38

Come find the Ghost Story Guys

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on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Spotify, and

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everywhere else fine podcast live or

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at Ghost Story guys.com.