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2:00

Times bestselling author Gretchen Rubin

2:02

about how we can bring

2:04

ourselves a deep lasting

2:07

joy. I am so

2:09

excited to have I'm happy. I'm

2:12

not just excited I am happy excellent to have

2:14

to have you here and I'm very happy to

2:16

be here. Well, thank you because

2:18

you are the founder of the happiness project was

2:21

a perfect name for this

2:23

book and a perfect name for what you did. And

2:26

I'm excited for and happy for the

2:28

information I know you're going to offer

2:31

people today. So people are going to

2:33

now want to do their own happiness

2:35

project when I finished I wanted to

2:37

do my own happiness project because we

2:40

have the power in our lives right now

2:42

to be happier than we are absolutely

2:44

and what I'm hoping happens

2:47

today is after our

2:50

conversation that people actually stop and

2:52

think about your life because you're

2:55

so in the doing doing yes

2:57

doing doing of it. So

2:59

I'm going to start where you started in the book. I

3:01

love this moment paint the picture for us where

3:04

you're on the bus yet and you're

3:06

looking through the window, yes, and you

3:08

see a woman with the umbrella and that you describe

3:10

it. So it's stuck in a city

3:12

bus in the pouring rain and I didn't have anything

3:14

to distract myself with you know so often you just

3:17

lost in something and so I looked out the

3:19

window and there was a woman with a stroller in

3:21

a cell phone and umbrella, you know kind of frantically

3:23

trying to cross the street. And

3:25

I looked at her and I thought you know that's

3:27

me that's my life, I'm just

3:30

doing a million things all at once barely paying

3:33

attention as I'm crossing the street. And

3:35

as I was sitting there on the bus, I had one of those rare

3:38

opportunities for reflection when you really step

3:40

back and think about your life. And

3:44

I thought what do I want from

3:46

life anyway. I thought well, I

3:49

want to be happy. But

3:51

I realized I didn't spend any time thinking about

3:53

whether I was happy or how

3:55

I could be happier because I was so

3:57

busy managing the stroller this cell phone umbrella.

3:59

I wasn't taking the time to think about what

4:02

was missing, what I could add, how I could really

4:04

be happier. And I thought I

4:06

should have a happiness project. And

4:08

it came to me like that. Wow. You

4:11

know what I love about that moment is

4:13

because everybody has had that moment. Yes. So

4:16

the idea that comes across over

4:18

and over again in the happiness

4:20

project is you weren't unhappy. Yeah.

4:23

You weren't unhappy. No, I was perfect. I

4:25

was pretty happy. I had all the elements of a

4:27

happy life. And that was one of the key things

4:29

that I wanted to work on in a happiness project

4:31

was I felt like I'm taking this for granted. I

4:33

have all everything I need

4:35

already. And yet I'm

4:38

not paying attention. I'm getting

4:40

distracted by minor annoyances and

4:42

grievances. And I don't appreciate

4:44

my ordinary day. I'm not thankful enough for

4:46

it. I'm not paying enough attention to

4:49

what's happening to me right here, right now. My

4:51

ordinary day is so precious. And yet

4:53

I wasn't paying any attention to it. And

4:56

so over the years, many,

4:59

many times on The Oprah Show and almost

5:02

every day after the show, I spent 40 minutes

5:05

to an hour with the audience who'd come from

5:07

all over the country. And

5:09

I would always start out by asking this question

5:11

about what makes you happy or what do you

5:13

really want in your life. And

5:16

everybody would always say, I want

5:18

to be happy. And then when I would

5:20

say, what does that look like, people

5:23

couldn't answer the question. Did you know the

5:25

answer to that question? No.

5:27

But I mean, that's the absolutely key thing. Because

5:29

if you don't pay attention to it, you don't

5:31

see the opportunities. I mean, what I found for

5:33

myself is when I really sat down and thought,

5:36

what would it look like if my life were

5:38

happier? If I could

5:40

eliminate guilt, boredom, resentment, anger, if I

5:42

could have more fun, more engagement, more

5:44

friends, more love, more tenderness, like how

5:47

would I go about it? But what

5:50

was really important was to translate

5:52

it into specific actions. Because

5:54

you're right, when you just have a free-floating idea

5:57

like, I really want to be less stressed out.

6:00

make that happen it's like it's not concrete

6:02

enough I think part of it is I

6:04

have a very concrete mind, I need specific

6:06

things to work on and so

6:08

when you think about like your question what

6:10

would happen like look like you sort of

6:12

have to really sit down and think it's

6:14

through like right what's what's the stuff that

6:16

you could do. And that's

6:18

what the happiness project exact so you started out

6:20

with a few simple rules. Your

6:24

own commandments. Okay, I

6:26

love this big action. Yes, that's the most

6:28

important one by far but everybody has to

6:31

substitute their own name okay, yeah, you can't

6:33

be Gretchen yeah, but it's this idea that

6:36

and it's mysterious because you think well the easiest thing

6:38

in the world is to be yourself you just hang

6:40

out with yourself all day, yeah, but really like in

6:42

the morning thought about this more of you like it's

6:45

the great challenge of our lives as people are living

6:47

their life there other people for the French of the

6:49

spouse is for their mother for the

6:51

other women in school, the way they wish

6:53

they were fantasy. Yeah, and I realize like

6:55

this the first thing the only way you

6:57

can build a happy life is you know

6:59

from a foundation of my own nature, my

7:02

own values my own interest but what we're

7:04

like but there was a lot of ways

7:06

that I was sort of pretending to be

7:08

different from the way I was like music

7:10

like I wish I love music. Other

7:12

people love music I get why people love music.

7:15

I don't really love music so much and I had

7:17

this fantasy that I could make myself love music and

7:20

then I'd be a better person and if I only

7:22

studied harder. But then when I gave

7:24

up the fantasy of this other Gretchen who love

7:26

music that I have more time for the things

7:28

I like what really is

7:32

your life. Yes, it's a this big

7:34

Gretchen and that really

7:36

being almost like it

7:38

almost covers everything yeah,

7:40

but isn't that the number one

7:43

spiritual law to

7:45

be yourself to that I don't self be true

7:47

and isn't that really and every every

7:50

tradition tradition religion. Words,

7:54

yes and yet and it seems

7:56

like it would be so obvious and clear and

7:58

yet it's just it's the constant. score

10:00

keeping, I'll say to myself, no calculation. No

10:02

calculation. That's not what I want for myself. You

10:04

know, I want to expect myself to behave better.

10:06

And there is only love. Oh,

10:08

a friend of mine went to work for a

10:10

very difficult boss and she just realized she couldn't work

10:13

for this guy if she let

10:15

him get under her skin. So she just said, there's

10:17

only love. There's only love. And she would

10:20

not allow herself to think, to go

10:22

into a negative, or gossip about him beyond his back,

10:24

or get worked up about him. Because one of the

10:26

things that you talk about is how

10:28

damaging gossip is. And

10:31

we live in a gossip culture. We do. You

10:34

know why it is? It's because everything's energetic. And

10:36

the energy of gossip that you're

10:38

putting out is automatically already coming

10:40

back to you. And that energy out creates

10:43

a negative space for yourself. Wasn't that

10:45

the truth? Yes, and there's also this other thing

10:47

that happens, which is called spontaneous trait transfer, which

10:49

is whatever you say about other people sort of

10:51

sticks to you. So if you say

10:53

about someone like, oh, well, you know, she's

10:56

such a loser, you're gonna

10:58

get associated with that term. So you're hurting yourself

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18:00

you're supposed to do? Well, he wanted to be

18:02

a good son. And so in one way it

18:04

was making him happy because he was doing, he

18:07

was being a good son even if his father

18:09

had not been a good father. And that's what he wanted to

18:11

expect from himself. So in a way it made him happy. Sometimes

18:14

people act like happiness is always like gonna send us

18:16

skipping down the street. It doesn't always work out that

18:18

way. So you have to remember, well, sometimes it doesn't.

18:21

Or when you're doing something new and challenging, it can

18:23

be very, like it can make you feel really bad

18:25

and insecure and defensive. But then in the end you're

18:28

glad you did it. So what you

18:30

do every day matters more than what you

18:32

do once in a while. This

18:34

is very comforting with, especially getting into habits. Because

18:36

it's like if you're healthy most days, that day

18:38

that you screw up, it's gonna be okay. Yeah.

18:41

And so you wrote a book called Happier at Home.

18:44

Oh, I love Happier at Home. Yes. Happier

18:46

at Home. Yes. That's

18:48

when I decided to go really deeply into the

18:50

idea of home because it seemed to me it's

18:52

one of the few universals, almost everybody has an idea

18:54

of home tied to happiness. If you're

18:57

not happy at home, it's hard to be happy. Because

19:00

one of the things you explored so much in that

19:02

book is the idea of clearing clutter. Yes.

19:05

How clutter is directly connected to

19:08

your experience of happiness and gratification.

19:10

To kind of an uncanny degree because you'd say

19:12

like, oh, the fact that you have a messy

19:14

desk doesn't mean,

19:17

like it seems trivial in the context of

19:19

a happy life. And yet for most people

19:21

it seems that outer order contributes to inner

19:23

calm. And that if you make

19:25

your bed in the morning, you're just gonna feel

19:27

calmer and more, both calmer and more

19:30

energetic all day long. I

19:32

don't... Oh my goodness. I mean,

19:34

I couldn't sleep in an unmade bed. Even if the bed

19:36

had been left unmade, I would have to make it before

19:38

I got in it. Yes.

19:40

So you realized that your

19:43

craving for simplicity was

19:47

also bringing you a sense of happiness. Yeah.

19:51

I mean, it's funny because I realize

19:53

that some people have more of an

19:55

affinity for simplicity and some for abundance.

19:57

And I realize from what I did that

19:59

I have... I really love simplicity.

20:02

But that doesn't mean just throwing everything away.

20:04

It means really carefully calling through so that

20:06

I have only the things that I

20:09

need, that I use, that I love. Because that's the

20:11

way you say we can be more engaged with our possessions. Yes,

20:13

is to get rid of all the junk. But

20:15

I have one, but when I was looking at

20:17

all the differences in how people form habits, one

20:20

of the things I noticed is some people just

20:22

love to have a lot of abundance. They like

20:24

lots of choices. They like collections. They like a

20:26

lot of visual stimulation. And to me, that's

20:28

like, Ooh, don't you want to get rid of all that? Like

20:31

my younger daughter has collections all over the place.

20:33

And I'm like, don't you want to get some

20:35

clear surfaces? But for her, each one is meaningful.

20:38

And so we have different senses of what

20:40

we want. But if you know what suits

20:42

you, then you can create the

20:44

environment that's right. I just realized recently,

20:48

I'm living in California, where all these years I've lived in

20:51

Chicago. And I was

20:54

standing in my closet, and

20:56

I realized my closet no longer

20:58

makes me happy. Oh, you

21:00

think a lot of people would back you up

21:03

on that. My closet doesn't make me happy because

21:05

my closet no longer serves the way

21:07

I live. So it doesn't have

21:09

anything to do with me, but I keep

21:11

holding on to these dresses or this, da,

21:13

da, da, this one. Heavy coat. Heavy coat,

21:15

because I think, well, one day you never

21:17

know, I might be cold. Or I love

21:19

this. I love this. You spent too much on that.

21:22

Yes, and so to be able to

21:24

start now, pulling out that closet and

21:26

reorganizing that closet, and only having things

21:28

in the closet that I love, which

21:31

I know you did, too for a

21:33

year, just having the things in

21:36

your immediate environment that

21:39

bring you joy or make you happy. That's

21:41

a big, big thing. No, and

21:43

I think we overlook the kind

21:46

of spiritual dimension of material

21:48

objects. If you don't love it, it has

21:50

no spiritual value. Yes, I mean, there are

21:52

things you don't use, but you do love them anyway, and

21:54

so they have a place in your home, because you just

21:56

love them. Yes, there was a moment, I recall, in

21:58

the book, where you were... passing a shelf

22:01

and there was your daughter's little macaroni

22:03

drawing or something on that and and

22:06

and just looking at that

22:08

little macaroni drawing yes, I think was macaroni

22:10

yes, yeah, yes, macaroni and cotton balls, yes

22:12

macaroni and cotton balls brought you a sense

22:14

of pleasure and happiness so that's a that's

22:17

a prized object right for you right value.

22:19

And it's because I think when you're in

22:21

a place with that's full of things like

22:23

that it's not like they're alive that they

22:25

kind of have like a benevolent presence

22:27

like you have to feel rich but then when

22:30

it's tough that like things you've never used you

22:32

know like that kitchen gadget that you've never used

22:34

just kind of makes you feel guilty to like

22:36

just let it go and it will live a

22:38

long and happy life with someone else who will

22:41

treasure it and then you'll have

22:43

more space on your shelves and more space in

22:45

your conscience because the stuff kind of ways is

22:47

down isn't amazing how the happiness that you got

22:49

from just cleaning out your closet. It's

22:52

cleaning out of it's on candy and then people

22:54

blog you about the clean my medicine cabinet and

22:56

I feel like a new human being. Yeah, no

22:58

it's it's a friend of mine said I finally

23:00

cleaned up my fridge now I know

23:03

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and show. So there's also you write

24:01

about psychic clutter. Yes, oh my

24:03

gosh. The to-do list,

24:05

the undone things, the projects,

24:07

the unfinished projects. One

24:10

of the things I did to clear that

24:12

psychic clutter is every week now I have

24:14

an hour called Power Hour, where I do

24:16

a bunch of tasks that

24:18

I've been procrastinating

24:20

maybe months, years, the

24:23

light bulb, the shredder, get a

24:25

new desk chair, figure

24:28

out where I lost my passport, all

24:30

that stuff that just keeps getting shoved

24:33

down the list. And so it's just clogging up my

24:35

mind. I keep thinking, oh, I

24:37

should do that. Oh, I don't want to do that.

24:39

Oh, I'll do that tomorrow. Power Hour, march through that

24:41

list. Eventually everything gets done. And

24:44

it's so interesting because one

24:46

of the things you write about is the fact

24:48

that there's so much research done on

24:50

unhappiness. And most of it does not

24:52

include any kind of reference to how

24:54

decluttering can change your life. Yeah. But

24:57

yet popular culture is constantly

24:59

talking about the problem of clutter and how to

25:01

organize it. And so it's not that we're not

25:04

aware of it because people clearly feel it very

25:06

much. But it isn't a subject of much research,

25:08

which surprises me. I think that there should be

25:10

research on that. But order creates

25:13

serenity. Yes. What do you

25:15

think you really gained from the Happiness Project? It's

25:17

funny because on the one hand, someone would

25:20

say, well, did you fundamentally change? Well, I

25:22

didn't fundamentally change. I'm still Gretchen. I'm still

25:24

the same person I was. But

25:26

what I gained was that my experience of

25:28

my life is different. I

25:32

have less guilt and less anger and less boredom and less

25:34

respect. Because you worked on it. Because I worked on it.

25:36

And I have more fun and more friends and more

25:39

tenderness because I worked on it. And

25:42

so I feel like although I'm the same,

25:46

my experience of my life is

25:48

so much richer. And also, one of

25:51

the sad truths, and I know you've talked about this,

25:53

is the only person that we can change is

25:55

ourselves. And that's very frustrating. Because do you think,

25:57

well, I'd be so happy. Other people behave properly.

26:00

I tell you what to do. But

26:02

what I found is that when I changed, then

26:05

relationships changed. And

26:08

when I changed, the atmosphere around me changed.

26:10

Yeah. Because you asked your husband at the

26:12

end of the year had he gotten happier

26:14

or how he had been affected by it. And

26:17

initially, he said no, right? Right.

26:19

He said no. But now he absolutely

26:21

said, I mean, it's clear. It's completely all these

26:23

things. But he had changed in ways he didn't

26:26

even know he was changing. Absolutely. You're saying

26:28

he was more willing to? Yes. Do

26:30

things around the house without you even asking?

26:32

He now answers my emails, which doesn't sound

26:34

like a big thing. But it represents major

26:37

progress. Because yes, it's like

26:39

when I changed, when I was more, when

26:41

I stopped keeping score, he stopped

26:43

keeping score. And when I was more patient

26:46

and thoughtful and lighthearted, then he lightened up

26:48

too. And so when I was behaving myself

26:50

better and living

26:53

up to what I wanted to be more, then

26:56

I think it helped the people around me kind of raise

26:58

up too. When you became better than

27:00

before. Yes. Yes. And you became better

27:03

than before. Better than before. Better than

27:05

before. My motto, yes, better than before.

27:07

Not perfection. Yeah. Better than before. That's

27:09

good enough. Gretchen's life motto

27:11

is also the subject of her

27:13

latest book, Better Than Before,

27:16

Mastering the Habits of Our Everyday Lives.

27:19

She has fascinating insight on how

27:21

our daily habits directly impact our

27:23

happiness. Makes sense to me. And

27:26

how do we get to be better than before, Gretchen?

27:30

Well, one important tool in our

27:32

toolbox, I would say, is

27:34

habits. That if we work on our

27:36

habits, which is about 40% of

27:39

everyday life, research shows, then we can

27:41

really direct our lives in ways that

27:43

are going to make us happier, healthier,

27:45

and more productive. By mindfully choosing

27:47

our habits, we

27:49

harness the power of mindlessness as

27:52

a sweeping force for serenity, energy,

27:56

and growth. Yes.

27:59

Because You know, habits are mindless

28:01

in that they happen automatically, but

28:03

that's their strength. You know, before

28:05

I was a regular exerciser, I

28:07

would just exhaust myself. Today,

28:09

tomorrow, should I go? It's too cold. My

28:11

foot hurts. It's raining. And

28:13

I would just exhaust myself debating. But

28:15

now that I just go, I've

28:18

mindfully made the choice to exercise, so

28:20

it just happens. So when you decided

28:22

to do better

28:25

than before, when you decided to step,

28:28

take the happiness project to yet another

28:31

level, did you sense that

28:33

you had then reached a point where

28:35

you could be consistently happy? Could

28:38

you be consistently happy? You

28:40

know, that's an interesting question, because I didn't worry

28:42

about that, because I feel like I want to

28:44

be as happy as I can be under the

28:46

circumstances, but I didn't expect

28:48

myself to be consistently happy, like, all

28:51

the time. Did your base-level happiness change it?

28:53

Because some people are just happier than others.

28:56

Yes. Tiggers and Ewers. Yes. Yes.

29:00

Like my friend, Gail, dear God in

29:02

heaven, one of the happiest people

29:04

I've ever known, consistently happy. Right.

29:06

Well, and about 50%, they

29:08

think is genetically determined. So that's just, you're

29:11

hardwired that way. And then about 10 to

29:13

20% is lay circumstances. So

29:15

that's things like age and health and

29:19

occupation. And

29:21

then the rest really is where our own

29:23

thoughts and actions come in. So you're right,

29:25

we all have our, like, where we're set.

29:28

But then we can push ourselves up to the

29:30

top of that range or push ourselves down to

29:33

the bottom of that range on our conscious thoughts

29:35

and actions. So, yeah, maybe one person's an Ewher

29:37

and one person's a Tigger, so their range would

29:39

be different, but we can all do the best

29:41

with what we have. Because I think, because

29:44

you're right, you're not gonna put

29:46

somebody in a completely different part of

29:48

the... That's right. So did you change

29:50

your baseline happiness level or did your

29:52

baseline stay the same and just got

29:54

enhanced? I think my baseline stayed the same.

29:56

I think my range, I took a test on a 1

29:58

to 10 scale and I was... I think my range is like

30:01

six to nine. I'm

30:03

not a 10 person, but I think I'm a six time. That's

30:06

a good place to be. And I think that instead of

30:08

being around seven most of the time,

30:10

I'm around eight or nine most of the time because of my

30:12

conscious thoughts and actions, because I've done so much

30:14

to get rid of the things that

30:16

dragged me down and to add the things that really lift me

30:18

up. So if

30:20

somebody was going to attempt the idea of being

30:23

better than before, I know they should read the

30:25

books first. But

30:27

fundamentally, fundamentally, what do you

30:30

think is the shift that needs to happen? I

30:33

think when it comes to firming habits, I mean, in

30:35

respect to what we were talking about with happiness, I

30:37

think that the critical first step

30:40

is to think about ourselves.

30:43

What is true for us? Can we each be happier?

30:45

I think we can, but I think what

30:47

we would do to do that is different.

30:50

It's different. Okay, that's the thing.

30:52

It's very different. And so you can't, I

30:54

can't say, oh, it worked for Oprah, so it'll work for me. But wouldn't

30:56

you say that there are some things that

30:59

do work, because constantly

31:02

on Super Soul Sunday, I'm

31:04

reminded by everybody who sits in this chair in one

31:07

form or another about the practice

31:09

of mindfulness. Oh, yes. I

31:11

think being mindful in

31:14

whatever you're doing, which to me means being fully present,

31:17

being fully engaged, being connected, lifts

31:21

your ability to be happy in any given

31:23

situation. That is absolutely true. Now, that's a

31:25

general overall. Yes, right.

31:28

That's almost like a sort of a state of mind, which is

31:30

are you engaged in whatever is happening? Are

31:33

you even experiencing the experience of what's happening? And

31:37

that's whether it's washing dishes or skipping through the

31:39

grass, right? And

31:42

it's interesting because I think habits have an

31:44

unusual, they're sort of in this funny place there,

31:46

because on the one hand you want to shape

31:48

them mindfully. But it is true that part

31:50

of their power comes from the fact that

31:53

you're not making decisions, you're not using

31:55

self-control. So better than

31:57

before you talk about this. And

32:00

you say that when we change our habits,

32:02

listen to me, Super Solars, we

32:04

change our lives. We

32:07

can use decision-making to choose the habits

32:09

we want to form. We

32:11

can use willpower to get the

32:13

habits started. I

32:15

love that because there's a difference, you know? Then,

32:18

and this is the best part,

32:20

we can allow the extraordinary power

32:22

of habit to take over. We

32:24

take our hands off the wheel of decision,

32:27

our foot off the gas of

32:29

willpower, and rely on the

32:31

cruise control of habits. That's the

32:33

promise of habit. And we all

32:36

have our own habits. We all have a habit of bathing, I

32:38

hope. Or showering, I

32:40

hope. Brushing our teeth, I hope. And that's

32:42

what happens when you make something a habit,

32:44

you take your foot off the gas of

32:47

willpower. So you don't need willpower to brush your

32:49

teeth. Right, you don't decide.

32:51

It's not agony. Because

32:53

a lot of times people say to me, well, I really want

32:55

to make more healthy choices in my day. And

32:58

I think, no, you don't want to make a lot of

33:00

healthy choices. Because every time you choose, you can choose wrong.

33:02

You want to make a healthy choice and then stick to

33:04

it. So it's like, I'm going

33:06

to choose to bring my lunch to work every day. Every

33:09

morning I don't decide anew. That's my habit.

33:11

I don't have to decide. I don't have

33:13

to use willpower because it's done. OK, and

33:15

that's why you call it better than before,

33:17

mastering the habits of our

33:20

everyday lives. And so

33:22

it first comes with a sense of, as does everything,

33:24

a sense of self-awareness

33:27

about what would it take to make

33:29

your life happier. Tweet, tweet.

33:32

So I thought it was interesting how

33:34

you mentioned that. And

33:37

this is, I think, for everybody who

33:40

has any level of awareness. You're

33:42

happier if the clothes aren't all

33:44

over the floor in your bedroom. You

33:46

just are, you don't even know how

33:49

much happier that makes you to walk

33:51

into a room, into your bedroom, where

33:53

the clothes are put away. Yes. But

33:55

you used to be the kind of person who would put the

33:57

clothes away and then want your husband to say, oh, you're

33:59

better. You put the clothes away. Right. Yes. No,

34:02

I'm a gold star junkie. I constantly

34:04

want praise and appreciation. I

34:06

saw myself in that story of yourself.

34:08

I thought, oh, gee, so am I.

34:11

Oh, yeah. You know what? Because nothing

34:13

made me happier in the third grade

34:15

than to get that gold star. Right?

34:17

Yeah. So satisfying. So satisfying. Yeah, no.

34:21

But what I found is that

34:23

when I would do something, thinking like, oh, good, this is

34:25

going to get me a gold star, especially

34:27

for my husband, and then I I

34:30

didn't get one. I was eight. If he didn't notice that you did it.

34:32

He didn't notice. Oh, I cleaned up the kitchen. He didn't say

34:34

anything. Like, what? He didn't notice? Like, I did this whole nice

34:37

thing for him. And so

34:39

then I'd get angry and resentful. And I

34:41

realized that if I would just acknowledge that

34:44

I love a gold star, but I'm

34:47

not going to expect them from him. I'm

34:49

not going to expect a standing ovation every time I do

34:51

something. That's giving up

34:53

calculation, right? Yeah, that's giving. It's all tied

34:55

together. All tied together, yeah. Then

34:59

it didn't matter how he reacted. Because I

35:01

think this desire for gold stars really gets

35:03

you into this really negative balance

35:06

with people. Where you're, at least for me,

35:08

I was wanting to get something from them.

35:10

And angry when I didn't get it, it

35:12

was all in my head. Are

35:14

you happier now? I am. I

35:16

am. My experience of my life is

35:18

a lot happier. Everything I've done.

35:21

Why do you think we're all here, Gretchen?

35:24

What are we all doing on the planet?

35:26

What's our purpose as human beings? What are

35:28

we all here doing? I

35:30

think our purpose is to accept

35:33

ourselves and to expect more

35:35

from ourselves, to understand who

35:37

we are, and to expect ourselves

35:39

to live up to that ideal better.

35:41

Leave better than we came. Yes. Better

35:45

than before. Better than before. Do

35:47

you think that being happier made you

35:49

a more soulful, connected, spiritual person? I'm

35:53

like the least mindful person on the planet. And

35:56

really working on it like this really helped

35:58

me connect. It's a

36:01

more spiritual way of living. It seems

36:03

like also living a

36:05

life that allows you to be better

36:07

than before, living a life

36:09

where happiness and mindfulness is

36:12

at the core of your center,

36:14

it would bring you to a

36:17

greater sense of awareness

36:20

and fulfillment and gratitude. Like

36:23

you would live in the space of gratitude. No, absolutely.

36:25

I mean, I think the sense of thankfulness,

36:27

appreciating the grandeur of everyday life, just the

36:29

ordinary day and really taking the time to

36:31

take it in is absolutely

36:34

crucial. And then when you have that thankfulness also,

36:36

then so many other negative

36:38

emotions get washed away,

36:40

like resentment and anger

36:42

and grievances, grudges, because

36:45

you're just so thankful for what you have. It really puts

36:47

it. And it's better with a sense

36:49

of humor. It helps me keep my sense of humor,

36:51

because it helps me keep my sense of perspective. And

36:54

your advice to people who are

36:56

stepping into this path, into their

36:59

own happiness project. You

37:01

know, I mean, from my observation, it seems like

37:03

sometimes people get discouraged. They feel overwhelmed, or they've

37:05

struggled with things before, and they haven't succeeded. And

37:07

so they feel concerned or

37:10

drained. But really, from what

37:12

I've done with myself and what

37:14

I've seen from other people, is that when you take the time,

37:16

when we think about what's

37:19

really true for ourselves and think

37:21

about how to put that into practice in our

37:23

everyday life, there really

37:25

are things that we can do to really

37:29

make ourselves happier and healthier and

37:31

more productive and have the life that

37:33

we really feel like we were meant to have. Well,

37:36

I thank you, because you made me want

37:38

to do my own happiness project. Excellent. Yeah.

37:40

Terrific. And I'm already pretty happy. Yeah. Yeah,

37:42

but I'm going to up the ante. There

37:44

you go. I'm going to send you two

37:46

emoji thumbs up. Excellent.

37:49

Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. I'm

37:53

Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening

37:55

to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.

37:57

You can follow Super Soul on Instagram.

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38:09

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