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State farm is there. I'm

1:01

Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super

1:03

Soul Conversations, the podcast.

1:06

I believe that one

1:08

of the most valuable

1:10

gifts you can give yourself

1:12

is time. Taking time to

1:14

be more fully present. Your

1:17

journey to become more inspired

1:19

and connected to the deeper

1:21

world around us starts right

1:23

now. It was obvious Nate Berkas was

1:25

born to do what he loves. From

1:28

the time he can remember, he watched

1:30

and studied his mom, Nancy

1:32

Golden, an interior designer. Raised

1:34

in Minneapolis by his mother

1:36

and stepfather, Nate's love for

1:38

decorating and design continued to

1:40

grow as he grew up. At 24, he

1:42

opened his own design firm in Chicago,

1:45

quickly building a name for himself. In

1:47

2002, Nate made his first appearance

1:49

on The Oprah Show, redesigning a

1:51

teeny tiny one-room apartment. I'll never

1:54

forget it. He was an

1:56

instant fan favorite, transforming homes

1:58

and lives for the... next

2:00

eight years. In 2004 our viewers

2:02

got to know Nate on a

2:04

more personal level and nobody could

2:06

have anticipated what happened. He was

2:08

vacationing in Sri Lanka with his

2:10

partner Fernando Bingo-Chaya when the devastating Indian

2:12

Ocean tsunami hit. Nate and Fernando

2:14

were swept away in a torrent

2:16

of debris-filled water. When a massive

2:18

wave separated them from one another,

2:20

Fernando disappeared. Nate never saw him again.

2:23

To call it a life-changing defining

2:25

moment doesn't come close to describing

2:27

the impact this experience had on

2:29

Nate. He says it changed everything.

2:31

His entire perspective on life, on love,

2:33

and design. With help, Nate persevered

2:35

and returned to the work he

2:37

loves. In 2010, he got what

2:39

he called the opportunity of a

2:41

lifetime. The Nate Berkis show was

2:43

launched and ran for two seasons. Since

2:46

then, he debuted a successful home

2:48

collection for Target, and most recently,

2:50

he wrote his second book, Beautifully,

2:52

title, The Things That Matter. I

2:54

read this book because when the book

2:56

first came out, I read it

2:58

because it's you. I got it

3:00

because it's you. I got it

3:02

because it was you. I remember

3:04

tweeting that I'm going to get it

3:06

and pay for it myself. And

3:08

you did? And I did? No,

3:10

you don't know. I bought 12

3:12

copies of this book. 12 copies.

3:14

And given to my friends. May I

3:17

think it's the best thing you've

3:19

the best thing you've done. Thank

3:21

you. It really is. It's a

3:23

beautiful book and I tell everybody

3:25

that it's about the things, the

3:27

things we can hold in our hands,

3:29

but it's about what's really underneath

3:31

the things. I think what you

3:33

say actually on the opening page

3:35

of this book, the truth is

3:37

that things matter. They have to, they're

3:39

what we live with and touch

3:41

each and every day and they

3:43

represent what we've seen, who we've

3:45

loved, and where we hope to

3:47

go next. They remind us of the

3:50

good times and the rough patches

3:52

and everything in between that made

3:54

us who we are. It's true.

3:56

Yeah. That was really the point

3:58

of the book for me. It

4:00

was, you know, a lot of people

4:03

have asked me over the years, is

4:05

design a spiritual endeavor? And I've always

4:07

believed that it was. I've never really

4:09

had the language to describe why I

4:12

felt that way until I sat down

4:14

to do this book. You know why

4:16

it is too? Because when we were

4:18

here with Rain Wilson, Rain Wilson said

4:20

something to me several years ago that

4:23

there's really no difference between art and

4:25

prayer. That's fascinating. Isn't that fascinating? Yeah.

4:27

And when you are creating design, it

4:29

really is an offering. It's a gift

4:32

in order to do it well. You

4:34

have to be in alignment with that

4:36

which is the creator. That's a really

4:38

interesting statement. Isn't it? Yeah, I've never

4:41

thought about that before. Oh, I love

4:43

to make you think of something you

4:45

hadn't thought of before. Never thought about

4:47

it. But this is what I love.

4:49

Getting through the rough patches and everything

4:52

in between that's made us who we

4:54

are who we are. being who you

4:56

really are. And years ago on the

4:58

Oprah show, there was a guy named

5:01

James Hillman who wrote a book called

5:03

The Souls Code. And in that, he

5:05

talked about the acorn within the oak

5:07

that lives in all of us. Inside,

5:09

there's this, we're born with it. And

5:12

however that's nurtured, it gets brought into

5:14

fruition to become the oak that is

5:16

your life. All of us have those

5:18

moments and I know so many people

5:21

are in the process of trying to

5:23

discover it. For me, it was standing

5:25

in front of the Buffalo Methodist Church

5:27

doing my first Easter piece and for

5:29

you, I saw the moment. When was

5:32

it? Let me tell you when your

5:34

moment was. Tell me when I found

5:36

my acorn. No, your acorn was 13.

5:38

When you were midstfoot? Totally. And... And

5:41

I got my own bedroom. And you

5:43

got your own bedroom. It really was.

5:45

So I was the kid that cared

5:47

so much about the things around me,

5:49

cared so much about the way things

5:52

looked, but more importantly, the way things

5:54

felt. That I was tortured by sharing

5:56

a bedroom with... my younger brother and

5:58

for me it was my own space

6:01

and my mother knew that I don't

6:03

think she knew that I would end

6:05

up working in design I don't think

6:07

she knew that I would end up

6:10

being on your show I don't think

6:12

that anyone predicts or tries to or

6:14

dreams for that but what she did

6:16

know was that her son was the

6:18

kind of person that had to control

6:21

the way a space felt and the

6:23

way a space looked and that I

6:25

would get great pleasure out of not

6:27

just the privacy that wasn't the point

6:30

it was the selection it was the

6:32

process it was watching a space that

6:34

was raw concrete walls and a basement

6:36

be transformed into a space where I

6:38

could live out my daily life because

6:41

when you are connected to those kinds

6:43

of things meaning your inner world the

6:45

space around you really matters because the

6:47

space around you reflects your inner space.

6:50

And I think it's universal. I think

6:52

no matter who we are or what

6:54

we have or we don't have everybody

6:56

wants to live better. I think it's

6:58

I think it cross culturally I've seen

7:01

it myself with my own eyes and

7:03

I've been impacted by it and you've

7:05

told the story on the show many

7:07

years of being in Africa remember the

7:10

woman who had tacked up the little

7:12

piece of fabric. I was thinking about

7:14

that the second you said that story

7:16

stayed with me forever. She's in a

7:19

shack and she's tacked up a little

7:21

piece of fabric over it. And you

7:23

asked her why? Didn't you? And she

7:25

said because it's pretty. Because it's pretty.

7:27

And recently, last year, at this time,

7:30

I was in Haiti with Sean Penn

7:32

and I sat with a father. and

7:34

his two daughters. They'd lost their mother

7:36

and basically they're still living in the

7:39

tents. The daughter had made a little

7:41

dollhouse and really makes me emotional to

7:43

think about it. And in the little

7:45

dollhouse she also found a little piece

7:47

of fabric to put over the windows.

7:50

You're living in a tent, you don't

7:52

have a doll, you have a cardboard

7:54

box. And you're decorating. You're decorating. Why?

7:56

Because things matter. Beauty matters. Beauty matters.

7:59

It really does. Beauty matters. So you

8:01

moved into the basement, which was really

8:03

kind of not one step above drywall,

8:05

right? Mm-hmm. But I watched the process.

8:07

And I was the kid that ran

8:10

home from school to see if the

8:12

sink had been installed or if the

8:14

tile had gone in or if the

8:16

cabinets were coming in or my desk

8:19

had arrived. Weren't you happiest when your

8:21

sink tops arrived? I mean, the joy

8:23

is indescribable. But you know, you take

8:25

that as a 13-year-old boy who grew

8:28

up around design. I spent the weekends

8:30

going to flea markets and yard sales

8:32

and estate sales and things like that

8:34

with my mom. And how I am

8:36

the person that I am today, I

8:39

can trace directly back to those feelings

8:41

because it's the same rush. It's the

8:43

same rush for me. It is the

8:45

acorn within the oak. Yes. This is

8:48

the thing that touched me so much

8:50

in this book that actually, you know,

8:52

caused me to well up. You write,

8:54

when I was a freshman in college,

8:56

I came out to my family and

8:59

friends. My stepfather was actually the one

9:01

who first brought the topic up with

9:03

me. At the start of the summer,

9:05

it turned out, he had found a

9:08

letter from a guy who was dating

9:10

at the time, but he didn't mention

9:12

what he'd read until late August as

9:14

he was driving me to the airport

9:16

for the flight back to Chicago. He

9:19

told me he knew I was gay,

9:21

but he was not going to tell

9:23

my mother that was up to me.

9:25

Can you tell the rest of that

9:28

story so I don't read it and

9:30

start bawling? So the beautiful thing, this

9:32

is a good man, my stepfather, Dr.

9:34

Marshall Golden. He wanted me to know.

9:36

He understood instinctually that I would be

9:39

afraid that no one would love me.

9:41

if I came out and that I

9:43

would be cast out by my family.

9:45

So though he had discovered that I

9:48

was gay in the beginning of the

9:50

summer, he waited three months to tell

9:52

me that he had made that discovery,

9:54

and the reason is that he wanted

9:57

to show me, not tell me, that

9:59

his behavior to me hadn't changed. He

10:01

said, I wanted you to know that

10:03

when you did something that annoyed me

10:05

this summer, I yelled you. But I

10:08

knew this whole time. So there's your

10:10

proof. I don't feel any differently about

10:12

you now than I did before I

10:14

found this out about you. I think

10:17

that's just such a powerful lesson for

10:19

anybody who is in a situation where

10:21

you suspect your child is gay or

10:23

your child has told you they're gay

10:25

or whatever in terms of handling it.

10:28

That is taking the spiritual philosophy and

10:30

putting it into spiritual practice. It really

10:32

is. I had to still myself because

10:34

first he was telling me that he

10:37

knew. So, you know, it was, there

10:39

was a lot of noise in that

10:41

conversation for me because there was a

10:43

lot of terror. Oh my God, you

10:45

know, you know, you know, you know,

10:48

you know, you know. First you're thinking,

10:50

you read my letter, you read the

10:52

letter? Yeah, that was all happening. But

10:54

then I, when I was able to

10:57

get still and really hear what he

10:59

was saying, I believed him because he

11:01

showed me. Yeah. Did you think your

11:03

mother maybe knew? No, I didn't think

11:06

my mother knew. I was very lucky

11:08

to have a family that was supportive

11:10

of me. My mother said to me,

11:12

I love you, but I need time

11:14

to deal with this and process this,

11:17

which is the most I can ask

11:19

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12:12

business has a problem like maybe one

12:14

of your doggy daycare customers had an

12:17

accident. You might say something like, dog

12:19

gone it! Hiji Wawa! Holy Schnauzer's! But

12:21

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12:23

help, just say, like a good neighbor,

12:26

state farm is there. And get help

12:28

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12:30

farm agent. For your small business insurance

12:32

needs, like a good neighbor, state farm

12:35

is there. So there's something

12:37

very important that you that you said

12:39

that I think you know over the

12:41

years I've understood particularly you know on

12:44

the Oprah show for years we used

12:46

to do coming out day because there

12:48

was a national coming out day you

12:50

say when you tell your beloveds that

12:53

you are gay or that whatever situation

12:55

is going on that you need to

12:57

give them the space to accept that

12:59

information and to grieve who they thought

13:02

you were or to grieve their vision

13:04

of what they expected. They wanted for

13:06

your life. Yes, because your mother then

13:09

has to grieve, oh am I going

13:11

to have grandchildren? Absolutely. And deal with

13:13

whatever you need to deal with and

13:15

your child I believe should respect that.

13:18

Yeah. Give them the space to mourn

13:20

to grieve the life they thought you

13:22

were going to have. The dream that

13:24

I had for you. Absolutely. Give them

13:27

the time to let go of that

13:29

dream. But... make it safe for them

13:31

in the process. And coming out for

13:34

me was, you know, what happens is

13:36

when you're a kid and you know

13:38

that you're gay, you develop a skill

13:40

set that makes you dishonest. You, if

13:43

you think about that for a second.

13:45

You know that you're gay, you're trying

13:47

to hide it. Yeah, you have to

13:49

lie. You feel that you have to

13:52

lie so that you're not cast out,

13:54

so that your parents don't cast you

13:56

out. And the things that you learn

13:59

to do, in class, in school, at

14:01

recess, with your family, how you have

14:03

to pretend that you like a girl

14:05

or that you're dating someone. I was

14:08

eight years old, nine years old, when

14:10

I became conscious of the fact that

14:12

I was gay, and I had to

14:14

develop a whole skill set around hiding

14:16

that, and it's taken me almost all

14:18

of my adult life. to rid myself

14:20

of those. Because I got pretty good

14:23

at it. Really? Yeah, absolutely. That's

14:25

so interesting. I never thought of

14:27

it that way before. What's also

14:29

fascinating is that your mother accepted

14:32

it. Your stepfather said, you see,

14:34

I'm not treating you any differently.

14:37

Your father, from what I've read, had

14:39

the hardest time. He did. Yes. He,

14:41

unlike my mom, didn't have any... gay

14:43

people around him. He really didn't understand the

14:45

lifestyle and the most important thing that happened

14:48

between my father and I when I came

14:50

out was that he for years chose to

14:52

believe it was a choice that I was

14:54

making. Yes. And I remember... And I said

14:57

to you at one point... I don't understand

14:59

why you're doing this. Exactly. Why would

15:01

you choose this? Yes. You could be

15:03

with any woman. You can have such

15:05

an amazing life. And I remember after

15:08

several years of not being close to

15:10

him, always being connected for holidays and

15:12

things like that, but never really having

15:14

a conversation with him after I came

15:16

out. He was in Chicago visiting me

15:18

and I took him to the airport.

15:21

This is a great spiritual moment.

15:23

It was an enormous moment. I thought

15:25

that this was one of those moments.

15:27

that had you not had the courage to

15:29

speak up and say this in so many

15:31

people they don't say it right and they

15:34

spend the rest of their lives being

15:36

upset with the other person yeah but

15:38

i thought what you said in the way

15:40

you said go ahead yeah so we his

15:42

flight was delayed we went across the street

15:44

to the hotel bar and we sat down

15:47

and each ordered a drink and i asked

15:49

him how he was and he said he

15:51

was fine and then he asked me how

15:53

i was because because He and

15:55

my stepmother were worried that

15:57

they would get a call someday.

15:59

that I had done something to

16:02

myself and I had started my

16:04

design firm. I was living with my

16:06

boyfriend in Chicago. How old were you?

16:08

I was 24. Okay. And I thought,

16:10

wait, what does he mean? And when it

16:12

occurred to me that he thought that he

16:14

would get a phone call that I

16:17

had killed myself, because it's a

16:19

very empty lonely life, and how

16:21

could we possibly attain any happiness,

16:23

I had a moment where I

16:25

thought to myself, either I'm going to

16:27

stand up and walk away from

16:29

how little this man knows me. Yeah.

16:32

Or I'm gonna dive in and really make

16:34

my case for him to know me forever.

16:36

This was the big spiritual moment. This

16:38

was a moment. Yeah. Did you know

16:41

did you know that it was a

16:43

big spiritual moment? I felt it. I

16:45

felt it. I felt it. I felt

16:47

everything that I had ever been through

16:49

in my life kind of rushed to

16:52

me in that moment to give me

16:54

the voice that I needed to say

16:56

to him. Dad. Do you trust me? Do

16:58

you respect me? Yeah, I'm your

17:01

oldest son. Do you respect

17:03

me in business? Do you

17:05

see the decisions that I've

17:07

made? Do you see how

17:09

I was listening at the

17:11

dinner table growing up? Do you

17:13

see that I have chosen to

17:15

have some of your qualities

17:17

and? Discarded other

17:19

ones. Do you respect me?

17:22

And he said, dad, why would I

17:24

choose to make my life more

17:26

difficult? Why would anyone choose

17:28

to make their life more

17:30

difficult? The truth of the

17:32

matter is, is that being gay is

17:34

the way that I was born. I

17:37

believe this to the core of my

17:39

being. I would never choose something

17:41

to make my life complicated.

17:44

I said, Dad, we're never going to

17:46

have a relationship, a real relationship,

17:49

unless you believe me, and I

17:51

know that you believe me and

17:54

act accordingly. I said, dad, do you

17:56

think I would choose to have this hair? Do you

17:58

think that I would choose to be five? I

18:00

would have been six one. It's the

18:02

exact same thing as my being gay.

18:04

And then he said he never thought of

18:06

it that way. He did. He did. Which is

18:08

actually my favorite moment in life

18:10

when you think of something in

18:12

a way. Wow. That's a big

18:14

aha moment he had. And he said,

18:17

Nate, the importance you're placing

18:19

on this issue is here. And the importance

18:21

I place on this issue is here. I

18:23

do love you. I do respect you.

18:26

I do admire you. If you. If you say

18:28

that you were born this way. And that

18:30

is the difference between moving forward in

18:32

a relationship with your father, a

18:34

real relationship. That was the moment.

18:36

Yeah. That was really the moment,

18:39

because then I knew that if

18:41

I had his base level of

18:43

respect, that I can move forward. Yeah.

18:45

You know what I got from that

18:47

story when I read it the first time?

18:49

And even now, a bigger aha for me

18:52

is that the thing, if you're not willing

18:54

to stand up... for who you are

18:56

and have people respect you for who

18:58

you are, then all the other things

19:01

that supposedly matter mean nothing. Because that

19:03

is the thing that really matters. Because

19:05

no one else is going to do

19:07

it for you. Fresh out of college, Nate

19:09

Burke has got his first big

19:12

break working for Leslie Hindman, the

19:14

influential owner of a Chicago-based

19:16

auction house. She saw something

19:18

special in him, a spark,

19:20

even though he says he was

19:23

the world's worst personal assistant. Leslie's

19:25

belief in Nate was a

19:27

significant milestone in the young

19:29

designer's career. Strong women have

19:31

always been behind me in some

19:33

way. I can trace it back

19:35

from my grandmother to my mother,

19:38

to my French teacher in high

19:40

school. Shurlstorm. Yep. To Leslie, to

19:42

you, obviously. But there's always been

19:44

that role for me, like angels

19:47

guiding me. In turn, you know, one of

19:49

the things that struck me, you talked about,

19:51

and we all have teachers that really mattered

19:53

in our lives and influenced us, for

19:55

me, everybody knows it's Mrs. Duncan. And

19:57

for you, that moment when you I

20:00

walked into class in your French

20:02

teacher, there was something about her,

20:04

Shorl Storm. Just looked different to

20:06

me. Mrs. Storm was like, always trying

20:08

with something, a scarf sort of floating

20:11

on her shoulder or a hat and

20:13

an angle, and she really... cared so

20:15

much about us. And she said to

20:17

me, I don't want you to just

20:19

speak French. I want your personality to

20:21

come through in another language. And when

20:24

your personality comes through, that's how you

20:26

know that you speak that language. Oh, that's

20:28

a great teacher. That's a great teacher. Yes.

20:30

And you say that, uh... She wrote you

20:32

a letter that's one of the great treasures

20:34

of your life. Absolutely. It's one of

20:37

the best things you've ever written.

20:39

Absolutely. You know that words are my

20:41

treasure words. I love words. And it's

20:43

the best gift anybody can give

20:45

me is a well-written thoughtful note. So

20:47

what did she say in that letter to

20:49

you? She just wrote to me that she had

20:52

always sent something special in me.

20:54

And that she always... felt that I

20:56

would go on to do great things,

20:58

whatever those things might have been, and

21:01

that we all define greatness in different

21:03

ways, but for her she knew that

21:05

I would have a life that was

21:08

filled with joy because I was kind.

21:10

And that makes me well up. Well

21:12

up, yes. Because I think that... You

21:14

know why you're welling up?

21:16

Because kindness matters to you.

21:19

Yeah, it does. Yeah, that's why it

21:21

does. A huge, huge amount to me.

21:23

Yeah. One of the things that you

21:25

say that struck me, you talked about

21:27

seeing life in all of its

21:29

various textures and layers and light.

21:31

And you said that you experienced

21:33

that when you were in Paris.

21:35

And the truth of the matter

21:37

is... I experience it in California a lot,

21:40

but what I'm learning to do is

21:42

to experience it in the every day.

21:44

What I'm learning to do it no

21:46

matter where I am, if I'm driving

21:48

down Michigan Avenue, if I'm coming down

21:51

Randolph, to be able to see the

21:53

textures and layers in a way that

21:55

I can appreciate beauty. Is that what

21:57

you're always doing as a designer? I

22:00

think so. I let things find me.

22:02

I let moments find me. I let

22:04

objects find me. I let beauty find

22:06

me in any of its forms. And

22:08

that could be walking along a flea

22:11

market and finding something on a table

22:13

that everyone else is overlooked, but for

22:15

me there's beauty inherent in the actual

22:17

object. Well, I think what's also amazing

22:20

that comes out of this book is

22:22

when you were in your 20s, you

22:24

were dating somebody who... could design their

22:26

own life. And you were at the

22:28

auction house where your life only started

22:31

at the end of Friday. Your weekend's

22:33

gonna only start. Friday 6 p.m. And

22:35

you're dating somebody who was. who was

22:37

working, who had their own company, who

22:39

had the freedom to leave on a

22:42

Thursday night and take a drive to

22:44

Michigan or do whatever they wanted to

22:46

do. And that felt like it needed

22:48

to be something that I had as

22:51

well. That freedom to actually create and

22:53

design my own world and my own

22:55

timeline was something that I knew. That

22:57

was the single thing that propelled me

22:59

to start my design firm. Just the

23:02

thought that you can stop and start

23:04

to create for yourself what it is

23:06

you want. Absolutely. and it was scary

23:08

to start my own company at 23

23:10

years old. I had to also know

23:13

myself, I guess, as well as I

23:15

thought I could at that stage of

23:17

my life. Because what do you know

23:19

at 23? You know nothing? You know

23:21

a whole lot of nothing. But you

23:24

know, it's funny for me because I'm

23:26

41 years old and everyone else... seems

23:28

to think my life has been so

23:30

accelerated and I look back on it

23:33

and it didn't move that fast. You

23:35

know, I feel like I've always been

23:37

the type of person that likes to

23:39

have space around the decisions that I

23:41

make. And that's why my talk show

23:44

didn't work for me. I didn't have

23:46

an idea of, I felt too rushed.

23:48

Can we talk about the show? Yeah.

23:50

Can we be as honest as we

23:52

need to be about it? I, listen,

23:55

I have adored you from the first

23:57

time you were on this show. I

23:59

felt that you had it. And I

24:01

thought I remember, I remember having a

24:04

conversation with you when you were leaning

24:06

towards having your own show. Did I

24:08

not have you in my office? Yeah,

24:10

we did. Yes. Yes. I'm waiting to

24:12

hear what you say though. Yeah. Okay.

24:15

I don't remember exactly what I said,

24:17

but what I was feeling was that

24:19

you wanted to do this thing. I

24:21

was trying to discourage you from going

24:23

into five days a week. Right. Right.

24:26

But I also knew that you were

24:28

in that space in that moment where

24:30

you really wanted it and you, you

24:32

know, felt that you should and I

24:35

felt that we had been behind you

24:37

all this time. And so let's, let's

24:39

see what happens. I'm ambitious. Yes. And

24:41

I. felt that that was an opportunity

24:43

of a lifetime. And everyone around me

24:46

told me it was an opportunity of

24:48

a lifetime. And the truth is it

24:50

was. It was an enormous opportunity of

24:52

a lifetime. But an almost impossible thing

24:54

to do in the way you wanted

24:57

to do it every day. Absolutely. And

24:59

you know, the truth was for me

25:01

is that I am a person that

25:03

likes to have space around the decisions

25:05

that I make, even for the makeovers.

25:08

When I was doing the makeovers on

25:10

the Oprah Winfrey show. They were spaced

25:12

out about every six weeks apart. So

25:14

if something didn't come in right, I

25:17

had the time to make that change.

25:19

With the show every day... I lost

25:21

sight of what was important and what

25:23

mattered to me because I just was

25:25

on that schedule every single day. So

25:28

the show for me was just, it

25:30

was not the right format for me,

25:32

it wasn't the right. Did you feel

25:34

overwhelmed? I felt overwhelmed, I felt exhausted,

25:36

I gained 20 pounds, I was, I

25:39

felt unhealthy, I felt, I felt like

25:41

there was no way I could do

25:43

a good job. And then I realized

25:45

that very quickly that I should have

25:48

done a show that was one day

25:50

a week. at most. That's what I

25:52

always thought. It would have been amazing

25:54

for me to do that, and maybe

25:56

I will, but that for me... like

25:59

that moment where I thought I'm not

26:01

that guy on this channel we got

26:03

some real estate I got some real

26:05

estate for you I know a place

26:07

you could go excellent yes yeah so

26:10

you realize that when though how I

26:12

really I actually oh well it probably

26:14

to be perfectly honest I realize

26:16

that the second week we were

26:18

in development of the show and

26:21

so basically for two years I

26:23

was unrecognizable to myself and I

26:25

think that came through on camera

26:27

yeah everyone is very smart and when

26:29

they see somebody doing something that they're

26:31

not really meant to be doing or

26:33

trying to sort of fake it until

26:35

you make it that that that who wants

26:37

to watch that i don't even want to

26:39

absolutely absolutely you know if you if

26:42

you cannot first of all what I've learned

26:44

and you know this too and for

26:46

everybody who's watching us around the world

26:48

if you cannot be authentic if you

26:50

cannot be true to yourself if I

26:53

cannot make the decision based upon what

26:55

feels right to me right now I'm operating

26:57

on what everybody else is saying I don't

26:59

know how to be in that yeah I

27:01

don't know how to function I mean

27:03

conversely I met wonderful people. Some of my

27:06

producers will be friends of mine for

27:08

life. It's like summer camp. Yeah, so

27:10

because it's not about lighting people. Yeah,

27:12

not at all. And I'm grateful that

27:14

I went through it because I know that's

27:16

not what I want. So, and so what did it

27:18

teach you? It taught me that... that I really

27:21

do need to stop and take the

27:23

time before I make a major decision

27:25

like that. And then I have to

27:27

really decide for myself why I'm doing

27:29

something. Was part of it ego? Totally.

27:31

Oh, absolutely. Ego money? Of course, all

27:33

of that was ruled in. Yeah. But

27:36

everything ends for a reason and I

27:38

really also felt that I, surprising to

27:40

me, um... to get deep for a moment

27:42

was that a lot happened when that

27:45

show ended. My relationship of three years

27:47

ended. Personally, I needed to get back

27:49

in shape. I needed to kind of

27:52

get control of myself again in many

27:54

different ways. And I went into therapy

27:56

for the first time since the tsunami.

27:59

And it was in... because my friends, my

28:01

close friend said to me, you're so breezy

28:03

about this show ending and the stuff in

28:05

the news and you're fine and you knew

28:07

it wasn't right and you're ready to move

28:09

on and you don't even care that you

28:11

don't know what moving on means, you're just

28:13

ready to be done and you're so breezy

28:15

about it and I was really, I was

28:18

concerned for my staff, I was concerned for

28:20

some of my friends that worked on the

28:22

show. But for me, I thought, I'm going to

28:24

be fine. I felt that I would be

28:26

fine. Was there a part of you that

28:28

was relieved? Enormously relieved. Yeah.

28:30

And I went into therapy and I

28:32

started to work on a lot of

28:34

issues that I had never really addressed

28:37

before. My childhood, why I make certain

28:39

decisions, why it was important for me

28:41

to be on TV, why I wanted

28:43

this so badly. And New Job? Growing

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me is that your story,

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my story, everybody's story

29:54

of their life has to be

29:56

a part of the ultimate design

29:58

in their life. all of that

30:00

is what's coming forth in all of

30:02

the things that you surround yourself. That

30:04

is why when I walk into an

30:07

interior that somebody's hired a decorator or

30:09

they've brought they've they've done based on

30:11

what they saw on TV yeah or

30:13

in a magazine or whatever it is

30:15

it doesn't matter really to me ever

30:17

how much money someone spent but when

30:19

I walk into a space and it

30:21

doesn't reflect the people that live there

30:23

yeah it's not a good job yeah

30:25

And I've always thought a home has

30:27

to reflect the people that live there,

30:30

tell the stories of who they are.

30:32

And it's not instant. It should be

30:34

assembled and layered over time. Oh, that

30:36

is so true. That's what I'm now

30:38

doing. That's exactly what Rose Tarla said

30:40

when she came into my house. This

30:42

house is beautiful, nice art, really nice,

30:44

but didn't have anything to do with

30:46

you. It's true. Yeah. My life was

30:48

going at, I don't know how many

30:50

miles per hour, doing five shows a

30:53

week for 25 years. I wasn't really

30:55

living in any spaces. You weren't living

30:57

anywhere. That is the true. Yeah, that

30:59

is true. Oh no, that makes me

31:01

want to cry right now. But you

31:03

really weren't, and I knew you. I

31:05

haven't lived anywhere. For the past 25

31:07

years, I haven't lived. I look at

31:09

my apartment in Chicago now, and that

31:11

was a sleep space. Yep. I think

31:13

that's why when you were in Monocito,

31:15

you spent so much time outside. I

31:18

think that's why the trees mattered so

31:20

much to... That's why my favorite space

31:22

is under the tree. Well, because it

31:24

wasn't designed. Someone else, God designed that.

31:26

Yeah. So I mean, it was... Oh,

31:28

I just had an aha. That was

31:30

really good. Yeah. So when our homes

31:32

really do reflect who we are and

31:34

who we aspire to be, that's when

31:36

you have a space that everyone is

31:38

drawn to. And what's interesting about that

31:41

is that the best design projects that

31:43

have ever been shown or seen or

31:45

photographed are always the ones where the

31:47

people broke the rules. They weren't listening

31:49

to what anyone else had to say.

31:51

This is so true. I just had

31:53

another big aha, but you know what

31:55

I realized too? We spend a lot

31:57

of time on this show. This is

31:59

my favorite. show Super Soul Sunday on

32:01

the whole network because it's about getting

32:04

people to think about the things

32:06

that really matter and this book

32:08

is about the inner and the

32:10

outer expression and how they're connected

32:12

and how other people can

32:14

connect them so how do we How

32:16

do you then define people's love of

32:18

material possessions? So we're taught that you're

32:21

not supposed to care about things, you're not

32:23

supposed to admit it because we're supposed to

32:25

care about people and we're supposed first, and

32:27

I believe in that. But I think we

32:30

have to care about things because they do

32:32

represent us and they do hold memories. So

32:34

what people need to do is stop and

32:36

take a beat before they acquire. And this

32:39

will actually solve a lot of issues

32:41

that people have, I think. Stop and

32:43

take a beat before you acquire. Before

32:45

you buy that sofa or that table

32:47

or that lamp or that mirror or

32:50

fill your bookshelves with books you've not

32:52

read, whatever it is, before you do

32:54

it, you need to stop and ask

32:56

yourself the question, is this really serving

32:59

me in my home? Is this telling

33:01

the story of who I am? Does

33:03

this represent what matters to me? And

33:05

if it doesn't? You can like something just

33:07

because it's pretty. Yeah. However, if it's

33:09

because you saw it on the cover

33:11

of a magazine or you saw it

33:14

on a TV makeover show and somebody

33:16

told you this is the newest, hottest

33:18

thing, then the answer is no. And you need

33:20

to take the space, you need, to make authentic

33:22

decisions for what you allow into

33:25

your home. In 2004, Nate Berka's

33:27

lost his partner, Fernando Bingale,

33:29

during the Indian Ocean tsunami

33:31

tsunami in Sri Lanka. After

33:34

Nate's exhaustive and

33:36

unsuccessful search for Fernando,

33:38

he returned home and was

33:41

comforted by family and

33:43

friends and wonder Fernando's

33:45

greatest gifts, two pieces of

33:47

art he'd given Nate just

33:49

before their trip. Talking about

33:52

other things that matter, you had

33:54

asked Fernando for pictures

33:56

that he had done and he was

33:58

offended that you... He had

34:00

created a series of 10 photographs

34:03

that were woven by hand. He

34:05

wove them by hand. They were,

34:08

they're five feet by six feet.

34:10

tall and they're hand-woven cut into

34:12

millimeter wide strips that he hand-wove

34:14

with a tweezer and he asked

34:16

me what I wanted for Christmas

34:18

that year and I said what

34:20

I want is one of your

34:22

woven photographs they were being represented

34:24

at a gallery in New York

34:26

and he went insane he was

34:28

he he started yelling at me

34:30

and how could I ask for

34:33

that and they were selling for

34:35

so much money and he would

34:37

never have sold them if he

34:39

didn't. person and this and that going

34:41

on and on and on. What do you want

34:43

for Christmas? Well I'd like a couple of those

34:45

photographs. How dare you ask me for that? So

34:47

I said you know what then I want nothing.

34:49

If you want to ask me, I'll

34:52

tell you the truth, and that's the

34:54

truth. What do you think I want?

34:56

A sweater? I don't want a sweater.

34:59

I want that. So if you have

35:01

all these 10,000 reasons why I shouldn't

35:03

have that, then keep them and that's

35:06

fine. And sell them? Do whatever you

35:08

need to do, and I'll be just

35:10

fine. So we were leaving for that

35:13

trip. The trip he never came

35:15

home from, and I walked into

35:17

the apartment. in the entryway

35:19

of my apartment and taken down

35:21

the paintings that were there and

35:23

put them where he wanted them

35:25

to go. And I, of course, didn't

35:28

think about that after the tsunami,

35:30

but when I came home, it

35:32

was the first thing that I

35:34

noticed. And it represented everything. It

35:37

represented what he was willing to

35:39

do that? That he would do

35:41

it. That he would do it in that

35:43

way. that he couldn't be coerced into

35:45

doing it but in his heart

35:47

he wanted to do it anyway

35:50

and that's really who he was.

35:52

So they're the most meaningful things

35:54

to me that I have. They

35:56

are, they represent his soul, they

35:58

represent his heart. they represent

36:01

his essence as a

36:03

person. And the fact

36:05

that he wanted me to

36:07

have them, not one, which

36:09

I had asked for, but

36:12

both, was just a

36:14

level of generosity that

36:16

I don't think comes

36:18

around a lot. And so every

36:21

time you see that. You were

36:23

reminded all of that conscious

36:25

and subconscious energy goes into

36:27

every time you look at one

36:29

of those Absolutely, and he touched

36:31

them he touched each one, and

36:34

I walk past it and of

36:36

course it's sometimes it's subconscious Sometimes

36:38

it's very conscious, but I think

36:40

to myself I was loved that way

36:42

Oh It's great. That is great I'm

36:45

Oprah Winfrey, and you've been

36:47

listening to Super Soul conversations

36:49

the podcast You can

36:51

follow Super Soul

36:54

on Instagram, Twitter,

36:56

and Facebook. If

36:58

you haven't yet,

37:01

go to Apple

37:03

Podcast and subscribe,

37:05

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37:07

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37:10

next week for another Super

37:12

Soul conversation. Thank you for

37:15

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