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2:43

ranging from astronauts to authors,

2:45

CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military

2:48

leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now,

2:50

let's go out there and

2:52

become Passion Struck. Hey, Passion

2:54

Struck, fam, welcome to episode

2:57

594. Whether you've been with

2:59

us for a while or you're tuning

3:01

in for the first time, I

3:03

am absolutely thrilled you're here. You're

3:05

now part of a global movement

3:07

dedicated to igniting purpose, unlocking potential,

3:10

and creating a more intentional

3:12

human-powered future. So let me ask

3:15

you this. What if the greatest

3:17

disruption in business isn't AI, it's

3:19

a crisis of human connection? What

3:21

if the leadership skills we once

3:23

dismissed as soft? are now the

3:25

most essential powers for thriving in

3:28

a fractured fast-changing world. That's exactly

3:30

what today's guest, Dr. Christie Smith,

3:32

unpacks in her groundbreaking new book,

3:34

Essential, how distributed teams, Generative AI,

3:36

and global shifts are creating a

3:39

new, human-powered leadership. Christie is a

3:41

globally respected leadership advisor, former managing

3:43

principal at Deloitte, and has worked

3:45

with iconic companies like Apple, Accenture,

3:47

and more. Her insights have been

3:49

featured. in Harvard Business Review, the

3:51

New York Times, and Forbes. And

3:53

today she brings her powerful perspective

3:55

to Passion Struct. In this conversation,

3:57

we explore how to lead with

3:59

intentionality. empathy Be

6:46

you still quoting 30-year-old movies? Have

6:48

you said cool beans in the

6:51

past 90 days? Do you think

6:53

Discover isn't widely accepted? If this

6:55

sounds like you, you're stuck in

6:57

the past. Discover is accepted at

6:59

99% of places that take credit

7:01

cards nationwide. And every time you

7:03

make a purchase with your card,

7:06

you automatically earn cash back. Welcome

7:08

to The Now. It pays to

7:10

discover.com/credit card based on the February

7:12

2024 Nelson report. I

18:02

think that is a great setup for

18:05

this deeper discussion in

18:07

humanity and leadership because

18:09

what you're arguing is that

18:11

it's essential to save the

18:13

workplace. So I think where

18:15

we need to begin this

18:17

discussion is what does humanity

18:19

and leadership look like and

18:22

how is it different from leadership

18:24

in the past? Let me start with

18:27

some facts because this is not.

18:29

Fluff, right? What we articulate

18:31

and examine in our book

18:34

is the notion of skills

18:36

scarcity and that this is

18:39

an economic crisis that we're

18:41

in. If you think about

18:43

the US economy alone, and

18:46

I'll talk about the global

18:48

economy, but the US economy

18:51

alone. needs to have 4.6

18:53

million workers enter into the

18:55

worst force with the right

18:58

skills just to maintain status

19:00

quo and it is

19:02

predicted by 2032 that

19:04

we will be in

19:06

a 6 million person

19:08

deficit of workers in

19:11

our economy. If you

19:13

couple that with global

19:16

numbers like we

19:18

are losing 8.8. trillion

19:20

dollars globally a year and

19:22

lost productivity

19:24

of employees and companies.

19:27

Now put that in

19:29

perspective, 8.8 trillion dollars

19:31

a year is Apple,

19:33

Microsoft, and Amazon

19:36

combined. That's staggering.

19:38

On an annual basis

19:40

we're losing that much

19:42

to productivity. So this

19:45

notion of... employees and

19:47

how leaders lead their employees

19:49

is really leading to a

19:51

crisis point, I think, in

19:54

our economy. Added to that

19:56

as $322 billion of people

19:58

who feel burnt out. at Be

22:55

you still quoting 30-year-old movies? Have

22:57

you said cool beans in the

23:00

past 90 days? Do you think

23:02

Discover isn't widely accepted? If this

23:04

sounds like you, you're stuck in

23:06

the past. Discover is accepted at

23:08

99% of places that take credit

23:10

cards nationwide. And every time you

23:12

make a purchase with your card,

23:14

you automatically earn cash back. Welcome

23:17

to The Now. It pays to

23:19

discover.com/credit card based on the February

23:21

2024 Nelson report. It

23:23

gets even worse than that.

23:25

The belonging perometer, which is

23:27

created by the American Immigration

23:29

Council, recently published that 64%

23:32

of workers in the United

23:34

States don't feel like they

23:36

are seen or they belong

23:38

in the workplace. And the

23:40

studies on loneliness are showing

23:42

that 54% of people feel

23:44

lonely at some point. These

23:46

to me are symptomatic of

23:48

a bigger issue that's going

23:50

on. The world right now

23:52

is facing division as you

23:55

brought up. It's facing a

23:57

whole shift in how we're

23:59

working, how we're communicating. with

24:01

people. And a lot of

24:03

what your book speaks to

24:05

ties very closely with the

24:07

work of Edward D.C. and

24:09

Richard Ryan's self-determination theory where

24:11

they found that intrinsic motivation

24:13

really was dependent on autonomy,

24:15

mastery, and connection. So very

24:17

much coincides with the four

24:20

things in your book. But

24:22

I think we are overbalancing

24:24

on agency. at the expense

24:26

of connection in some ways.

24:28

And where I'm going with

24:30

this is, if you think

24:32

about work for the past

24:34

hundreds of years, many people

24:36

found their best friends at

24:38

work. Many people got married

24:40

because of a work environment.

24:43

There was like a family.

24:45

So work in many ways.

24:47

People would stay like my

24:49

grandfather was at craft for

24:51

40 years. He worked with

24:53

the same people for decades

24:55

and if you think about

24:57

how humans grew up, they

24:59

really, we really started in

25:01

small groups or villages. And

25:03

for many, the work environment

25:05

was another extension of that

25:08

village. And people in your

25:10

work environment because they stayed

25:12

in the same company for

25:14

so many years cared about

25:16

you. There was this feeling.

25:18

that you belonged and now

25:20

it's almost like being a

25:22

professional athlete where people are

25:24

just leaving jobs at the

25:26

highest bidder and we've lost

25:28

this connection and the village

25:31

is evolving so much that

25:33

you don't have that same

25:35

feel and you couple that

25:37

with the outsourcing that's going

25:39

on and then the post-pandemic

25:41

restructuring of the whole workforce

25:43

and the village is gone.

25:45

It's now become a global

25:47

village. So I put that

25:49

all as a backdrop for

25:51

the demands that are put

25:53

on. leaders today, it is

25:56

so different from when I

25:58

was leading teams at Lowe's

26:00

and Dell, when we were

26:02

dealing with offshoring, but we

26:04

still had a huge amount

26:06

of workers who were there.

26:08

How does a leader start

26:10

to approach this? Because when

26:12

you think about it, it's

26:14

just staggering what they're having

26:16

to jump into these days.

26:19

Well, this is where I

26:21

think the great hope lies

26:23

with our book is that

26:25

These realities in this perfect

26:27

storm of forces against or

26:29

creating chaos in the workplace

26:31

in our society overall can

26:33

be healed. And it can

26:35

be, there is hope. for

26:37

the promises of fulfillment at

26:39

work and the village as

26:41

you talk about and community

26:44

and connection with the right

26:46

skills of leadership. Now what

26:48

we talk about is building

26:50

a blueprint of what we

26:52

call the emotionally mature leader.

26:54

Now. Where did we come

26:56

at this kind of conclusion?

26:58

What we looked very closely

27:00

at the other leadership models

27:02

that have been prevalent in

27:04

certainly my lifetime and for

27:07

generations. If you think about

27:09

servant leadership in the 70s

27:11

and then you look at

27:13

emotional intelligence in the late

27:15

80s and 90s, these were

27:17

great frameworks for leaders trying

27:19

to understand. themselves, right? Especially

27:21

emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is

27:23

a great tool for me

27:25

as a leader to understand

27:27

what my proclivities are in

27:29

terms of my own emotional

27:32

capabilities, right? And but I

27:34

can take an emotional intelligence

27:36

test or course or what

27:38

have you and I can

27:40

put those results. in a

27:42

drawer. It's not that I

27:44

am being held account to

27:46

them. We believe really strongly

27:48

that we need to build

27:50

on this idea of emotional

27:52

intelligence but move dramatically from

27:55

that inward-looking self-diagnosis to an

27:57

outward focused model, which we

27:59

call emotional maturity. Now, emotional

28:01

maturity is built on a

28:03

couple of key elements. The

28:05

first being suspension of self-interest.

28:07

In order for us to

28:09

lead the complexity in the

28:11

workplace today to connect with

28:13

our employees, to connect purpose

28:15

to the work that is

28:18

being done, we must suspend

28:20

our own self-interest in getting

28:22

that work done, right? It's

28:24

not about us anymore. And

28:26

that is a key element

28:28

we have found to great

28:30

leadership. The second element is

28:32

this notion of insatiable curiosity.

28:34

In order for me to

28:36

suspend self-interest, my interest has

28:38

to lie on you. And

28:40

that is understanding our employees

28:43

by asking lots of questions.

28:45

By taking time, listen, I'm

28:47

sure your schedule is like

28:49

mine had been, which was

28:51

get up, check my smart

28:53

device and my email, and

28:55

then meeting after meeting. And

28:57

very little, and all of

28:59

those meetings are about productivity

29:01

and outcome. very few of

29:03

those meetings are set up

29:06

to spend time with employees

29:08

to really understand what makes

29:10

them, what motivates them, what

29:12

kind of work that they

29:14

want to do. If the

29:16

conversation allows and the employee

29:18

has to allow it, what

29:20

is going on with their

29:22

life that is hindering any

29:24

aspect of the work that

29:26

they can get done. We

29:28

need to be more curious

29:31

as leaders. Interestingly, after we

29:33

had submitted the final manuscript

29:35

on the book, Jamie Diamond

29:37

came out and started talking

29:39

about curiosity as the number

29:41

one leadership skill. Well, I

29:43

think it's maybe not one,

29:45

I think suspension of self-interest

29:47

is one, but two is,

29:49

okay, curiosity. The third thing

29:51

is focusing on creating cultures

29:54

of excellence. Now creating cultures

29:56

of cultures of excellence is

29:58

really looking at how do

30:00

you construct the work that

30:02

needs to be done and

30:04

how do you take the

30:06

team that you're responsible for

30:08

and architect the work such

30:10

that each individual feels that

30:12

they are fulfilled but know

30:14

that their success is dependent

30:16

on the rest of the

30:19

team and that there's this

30:21

notion of if you go

30:23

back in the day with

30:25

the Chicago Bulls when they

30:27

were a chance. championship team.

30:29

I know what my role

30:31

is on the team. Dennis

30:33

Rodman's role on that team

30:35

was to get rebouts, right?

30:37

That's all he was supposed

30:39

to do. The minute he

30:42

started taking three-point shots is

30:44

when he got benched, because

30:46

that wasn't his role, right?

30:48

That was Jordan's role. And

30:50

so the understanding of how

30:52

do I architect this team

30:54

and its culture to create

30:56

that sense that we are

30:58

a team? That we are

31:00

a team? and that everybody

31:02

is contributing equally to that

31:04

team. Christie, thank you for

31:07

bringing that up. And I'm

31:09

not sure what your experience

31:11

was like, but when I

31:13

was at Dell, the way

31:15

that they operated was we

31:17

had to have at least

31:19

12 direct reports and they

31:21

typically wanted 16. And I

31:23

remember, I just got to

31:25

this point where everything that

31:27

I was doing was either.

31:30

like you're talking about, looking

31:32

at output, dealing with HR

31:34

issues or dealing with the

31:36

politics that were happening because

31:38

we had forced rankings. So

31:40

you knew 20% of the

31:42

people that you were working

31:44

with were going to be

31:46

gone, including the leaders you

31:48

were working with. It just

31:50

made it so difficult to

31:52

find any time to truly

31:55

be present. And I found

31:57

one of the most important

31:59

things I learned from being

32:01

in the military. was the

32:03

greatest leaders speak with their

32:05

feet and they are on

32:07

the floor. They are interacting

32:09

with the front lines. They're

32:11

getting a pulse of everyone

32:13

from the lowest person in

32:15

the organization to the highest

32:18

and understanding what the pulse

32:20

of the organization is like.

32:22

And so what I have

32:24

been calling for because most

32:26

of my life I was

32:28

a servant leader and I

32:30

don't think it suits. the

32:32

environment today is something I

32:34

call a gardener leader, which

32:36

is very similar to what

32:38

you're talking about, meaning similar

32:40

to a gardener, you have

32:43

to really nurture your crops,

32:45

but you can't expect to

32:47

stand over them all times.

32:49

So I really call this

32:51

eyes on, but hands off.

32:53

And a key component of

32:55

this is you got to

32:57

inspire your people through a

32:59

noble mission, what you were

33:01

talking about with purpose. you

33:03

have to put the team

33:06

first at all costs. But

33:08

one of the most important

33:10

things is you need to

33:12

be ambitious. A leader in

33:14

the future cannot have an

33:16

ego or you're just going

33:18

to go to the wayside.

33:20

So I love what you're

33:22

saying there. So thank you

33:24

for creating this new model

33:26

because I completely agree with

33:28

it. I appreciate your words.

33:31

And I do think it's

33:33

interesting when we look at

33:35

you probably know this as

33:37

well as I do. I've

33:39

talked to hundreds if not

33:41

thousands of leaders who are

33:43

in and still doing this

33:45

today in transition from about

33:47

five years out, maybe shorter

33:49

period of time, from retirement.

33:51

And inevitably, to a leader,

33:54

they say to me, well,

33:56

I really want to focus

33:58

on my legacy. I want

34:00

my legacy to be how

34:02

much I cared about people

34:04

and the culture I create

34:06

and blah, blah, blah. It's

34:08

never about I created billions

34:10

for the company and created

34:12

the best widget in the

34:14

world, whatever. I have not

34:17

heard that at all. Right?

34:19

What I've heard is I

34:21

want my legacy to be

34:23

about the people and the

34:25

culture and the commitment and

34:27

love I had for the

34:29

brand, right? It's what we're

34:31

suggesting with an emotionally mature

34:33

leader is don't wait for

34:35

that five years out. Don't

34:37

wait until you start thinking

34:39

about retirement. This is something

34:42

you must do from day

34:44

one, right? It's cultivating those

34:46

attributes of suspension of self-interests,

34:48

curiosity. thinking about architecting teams

34:50

and constructing the way work

34:52

gets done, moving from a

34:54

focus primarily on productivity and

34:56

financial metrics to the consideration

34:58

of, yes, financials, but environmental,

35:00

societal, your people, and what

35:02

matters there. It really is

35:05

a fundamental shift and I'm

35:07

not sure if you've heard

35:09

of a think that it's

35:11

called the B team. It's

35:13

this organization that Sir Richard

35:15

Branson was forming. Mark Benny

35:17

off is one of the

35:19

people on it. And what

35:21

they were trying to do

35:23

is to get the leaders

35:25

of the biggest companies to

35:27

stop making shareholder value and

35:30

top line, bottom line, the

35:32

major metrics that were governing

35:34

whether a company was successful

35:36

or not. So that sounds

35:38

like it aligns with what

35:40

you're saying. One thousand percent.

35:42

I think we need more

35:44

leaders like the two of

35:46

them. in terms of that

35:48

kind of mission of the

35:50

B Corp, right, or the

35:53

BT. rather that is that

35:55

we would term as a

35:57

great example of an emotionally

35:59

mature leader. Well I would

36:01

agree with that and I

36:03

hope companies go that way

36:05

because as those who are

36:07

public I it is quarter

36:09

by quarter and it's very

36:11

difficult to get that out

36:13

of the environment which is

36:15

why when I got involved

36:18

in private equity I liked

36:20

working in that environment because

36:22

it tend to be even

36:24

though they were looking at

36:26

a shorter duration, attended to

36:28

be longer term thinking because

36:30

you weren't held to the

36:32

same market demands. Well, there's

36:34

a great example in the

36:36

book that we talked about,

36:38

a leader from the CEO

36:41

of Unilever, who actually said,

36:43

we're going to stop the

36:45

madness around quarterly earnings and

36:47

talking about that. We are

36:49

actually going to focus on

36:51

our longer term goals. And

36:53

that... shift, incredibly courageous, right?

36:55

That shifted the entire culture

36:57

of the organization to not

36:59

be in this kind of

37:01

fear, kind of chaos. You

37:03

and I both work for

37:06

public companies and as soon

37:08

as you close one quarter,

37:10

you are like... already gunning

37:12

and planning for the second

37:14

quarterly update. And that is

37:16

a distraction to the work

37:18

that actually needs to be

37:20

done to connection to our

37:22

customers and our clients. It's

37:24

a distraction in terms of

37:26

how we think about. the

37:29

demands that we make on

37:31

our employees. How many times

37:33

have you experienced in the

37:35

workplace in these kind of

37:37

quarterly rushes? I certainly did

37:39

about two weeks out several

37:41

demands from a CEO on,

37:43

I need this deck. No,

37:45

I need this deck. I

37:47

need that deck. And just

37:49

the chaos that it created

37:51

and distraction from the actual

37:54

purpose of the organization, which

37:56

was to serve clients. So

37:58

I think that this. example

38:00

of Unilever saying we're going

38:02

to shelve that, allowed them

38:04

to come together as a

38:06

team and frankly focus on

38:09

the things that mattered, which

38:11

then had confidence that it

38:13

would result in better earnings,

38:16

which in fact it did.

38:18

So I really think this

38:20

need for a leader to

38:23

think very differently about

38:25

culture architecting

38:27

the work. architecting

38:29

the teams will result in

38:31

all evidence points to this

38:34

will result in higher earnings.

38:36

Greater productivity

38:38

of your greater engagement of

38:40

your employees leads to something

38:43

like not something like six

38:45

times better sales and

38:47

revenue goals. Six times. So

38:49

the evidence suggests that this is

38:52

the best thing for the

38:54

performance of your company, yet

38:56

we are still stuck in

38:58

these old models of quarterly

39:00

short-term thinking. Couldn't agree more.

39:02

So Christie, I had the privilege

39:04

over the past couple years of

39:07

interviewing Gary Vandertuk and Claude Silver,

39:09

and I'm not sure if you're

39:11

familiar with Claude Silver, but as

39:13

far as I know, when Gary

39:15

created the position of Chief Heart Officer,

39:18

I think she was the first

39:20

one ever in that position. And

39:22

to me, I have always felt

39:24

when I would look at the

39:26

chief human resources officer, I thought

39:28

that there were two different types

39:31

and I might be unfair when

39:33

I say this, but there was

39:35

the one type who really was

39:37

all about what the book said

39:39

you should do of focus on

39:41

numbers, etc. And then I

39:44

would work with others who were

39:46

more about. caring for the

39:48

employee base really focused more

39:50

on the culture and I saw

39:52

them they were more about the core

39:54

values and not only what

39:57

it meant for employees but how

39:59

this the customers and when I

40:01

think of this chief heart officer

40:04

and what Gary told me he

40:06

was trying to do is he

40:08

saw that there was this gap

40:11

between employees and them realizing what

40:13

their purpose was, but he said

40:15

it went beyond that. It was

40:18

not only their purpose at work,

40:20

it was really understanding what was

40:22

their purpose in life and how

40:25

do you start understanding the motivators

40:27

of a person's entire 360 of

40:29

them? and really being glued into

40:32

it to understand that if you

40:34

wanted a person to really perform

40:36

and to want to stay at

40:39

the company, the more you invested

40:41

in them and all aspects of

40:43

their life, the more it was

40:46

going to do it. So I

40:48

bring this up in a long

40:50

way to do you think what

40:53

they're doing with the chief heart

40:55

officer is something that more companies

40:57

should be doing. Full stop, absolutely.

41:00

I know Claude and I remember

41:02

when she was thinking about this

41:04

transition and this position and how

41:07

excited she was because of it.

41:09

I think that what you just

41:11

described and what they're trying to

41:14

achieve is exactly what we need

41:16

in our organizations. I think that

41:18

like most of the C-sweet, the

41:21

CHRO role is... changing and evolving

41:23

rapidly and needs to candidly. I've

41:25

worked with, for example, I've worked

41:28

with a lot of CHR, not

41:30

a lot, some CHROs who really

41:33

are seen and rightfully so because

41:35

their behavior suggested this as the

41:37

protector of the CEO's reputation, not

41:40

the advocate for the humanity in

41:42

their organizations. So it created a

41:44

fear culture culture, right? I've worked

41:47

with a number of CHROs who

41:49

are just inundated with technology vendors

41:51

knocking on their door with this.

41:54

thing to create productivity, that thing

41:56

to create connection skills, blah blah

41:58

blah, whatever it is. And they're

42:01

ill-equipped in thinking about, well, what

42:03

do I do, who do I

42:05

talk to, how do I bring

42:08

this in, how do I structure

42:10

my technology capabilities for the best

42:12

interest of the employees, how do

42:15

I begin to understand, what is

42:17

the best thing for the employees,

42:19

right? And how do I create

42:22

this kind of... 360, as Claude

42:24

is doing, right? This 360 view

42:26

of our employees, and there is

42:29

no longer this division of self

42:31

that happens when you cross the

42:33

threshold of your company. I come

42:36

to work with everything that's going

42:38

on. Whether that is I have

42:40

family in crisis or I have

42:43

health issues or one of my

42:45

kids is struggling with ADD or

42:47

whatever it is, right, I come

42:50

to work with that. I end,

42:52

I choose not to work with

42:54

one hand tied behind my back

42:57

by pretending like everything is copacetic.

42:59

Everything's great. I'm 100% focused on

43:01

my work. The truth is I

43:04

can be productive with all of

43:06

those outside things happening. I can

43:08

be super productive, right? But I

43:11

can only do that if I

43:13

feel safe, if I feel like

43:15

my manager has my back, that

43:18

I feel a sense of psychological

43:20

safety, that my work matters, that

43:22

I have agency in structuring my

43:25

work to get what needs to

43:27

get done when I get it

43:29

done. My best hours always in

43:32

with every company I've worked with

43:34

and I live on the West

43:36

Coast of the United States has

43:39

always been from about 5 a.m.

43:41

to like 10 a.m. I am

43:44

hyper productive at that time. I

43:46

have no expectation for those employees

43:48

that live on the West Coast

43:51

that they're answering emails at 5

43:53

a.m. or they're doing things at

43:55

6 a.m. or 7 a.m. That

43:58

is a discussion I have with

44:00

my employees. That's my best time.

44:02

Do not answer. What is your

44:05

best time? If your best time

44:07

is 6 o'clock at night to

44:09

midnight, great. I'm asleep. Not at

44:12

6 o'clock, but great, then we've

44:14

got the clock covered, but how

44:16

do I as a leader structure

44:19

the way work gets done so

44:21

that I can deal with all

44:23

of those outside forces? As I

44:26

was preparing for this, I was

44:28

listening to an interview you did

44:30

from a number of years back

44:33

and it reminded me of what

44:35

you were just saying here, but

44:37

on a different topic. And at

44:40

the time, you were asked to

44:42

go in and assess a leader

44:44

and how they were interacting with

44:47

their team. And this leader comes

44:49

into the room after a week

44:51

weekend where the parkland... shooting had

44:54

just happened and this person has

44:56

a large contingent of people who've

44:58

got kids who are middle school

45:01

teenager age and proceeds to go

45:03

into the meeting and go about

45:05

it as if nothing happened and

45:08

maybe I'll let you take it

45:10

from there and share what happened.

45:12

Fundamentally the work ethic at this

45:15

company was work, nothing else matters.

45:17

very high-powered very driven environment and

45:19

things mattered as long as they

45:22

weren't personal things mattered as long

45:24

as it was around grabbing a

45:26

cup of coffee between working on

45:29

the project right so this leader

45:31

had asked me much to his

45:33

credit asked me to come sit

45:36

in a couple of meetings and

45:38

as you suggest The first meeting

45:40

I sat in was that Monday

45:43

after the Parkland murders and he

45:45

started ripping through the agenda like

45:47

he does every week. People were

45:50

disconnected, they were distracted, they were

45:52

not as... meaning in, they were

45:55

back in their chairs, something was

45:57

uncomfortable. And the leader just didn't

45:59

pick up on it because he

46:02

was getting the agenda done, just

46:04

like he had done every Monday

46:06

before that, and frankly had been

46:09

rewarded for. So afterwards we had

46:11

this discussion of, well, did you

46:13

notice? And I gave him very

46:16

specifics about the people that were

46:18

in the room. He just felt

46:20

like it was a blah Monday.

46:23

And I said, no, I said,

46:25

not a blab Monday. What? I

46:27

said, do you know that the

46:30

Parkland murders happened over the weekend?

46:32

And he said, oh, yeah. He

46:34

goes, my wife and I were

46:37

talking about it. It was really

46:39

horrific. And I said, do you

46:41

think that had any impact on

46:44

the people in that room? And

46:46

it was as if the light

46:48

bob went on for the first

46:51

time. He thought, God, I didn't

46:53

even think about that. And we

46:55

talked about it for a while

46:58

and he said, what would you

47:00

do different? I said, well, how

47:02

about going into your meeting, starting

47:05

with, how is everybody? Did you

47:07

have a good weekend? I said,

47:09

you can rip through your agenda

47:12

and get everything done on that

47:14

by taking 10 minutes at the

47:16

beginning of the meeting and just

47:19

seeing, taking the temperature of your

47:21

people. He did it. the next

47:23

meeting and I sat in it

47:26

and he asked those questions and

47:28

everybody looked at each other wait

47:30

what is going on here right

47:33

they thought somebody had possessed him

47:35

and but like every you could

47:37

see everybody's shoulders go huh release

47:40

and then they started sharing and

47:42

so he has started that meeting

47:44

like that ever since and the

47:47

engagement The care that each employee

47:49

has with one another, it wasn't

47:51

necessarily a competition or I need

47:54

this from you to get my

47:56

project done. It turned from that

47:58

to much more collaboration, much more

48:01

humanity in interacting with one another.

48:03

getting the work done and the

48:06

work was done faster, all those

48:08

metrics you want to have, faster,

48:10

more complete, less revs, all of

48:13

those kinds of things in a

48:15

greater culture, frankly, of excellence than

48:17

he could have ever imagined. Yeah,

48:20

he became a gardener. That's exactly

48:22

right. Now you're 100% right. Well,

48:24

and what he did was he

48:27

cultivated his village and created an

48:29

environment where people were seen and

48:31

respected and saw their differences. So

48:34

a great example and that's why

48:36

I wanted to bring it up.

48:38

Let me just, you've talked about

48:41

village and I think you're so

48:43

spot on and I think we

48:45

have not thought about our workplaces

48:48

as communities, villages. We haven't thought

48:50

about them in an intimate way

48:52

like that. And I think that's

48:55

in some ways. why we may

48:57

be in this period of lack

48:59

of engagement or mental health, the

49:02

prevalence of mental health, the feelings

49:04

of being lonely, the great psychologist

49:06

Robert Putman talks about what makes

49:09

successful societies in communities. It's two

49:11

things. It's bonding capital. that we

49:13

share a common mission, we share

49:16

a common ground with one another,

49:18

whether that be the project that

49:20

we're working on or the part

49:23

of the company that we're in,

49:25

there is a bonding capital that

49:27

needs to be resident, right? But

49:30

there's also bridging capital that needs

49:32

to happen. And how do I

49:34

how do I build across differences

49:37

with people? Going back to the

49:39

most obvious, which is your DEI

49:41

example. but also across areas of

49:44

the business, the silos of the

49:46

business. How do I break those

49:48

silos down? How do I create

49:51

bridging capital where we all win?

49:53

Not just I, right? So I

49:55

think that we have to almost

49:58

go back to those basics of

50:00

thinking a. Our companies are communities

50:02

that need to thrive. They are

50:05

villages. That's where we spend the

50:07

majority of our time. With any

50:09

employment I've had, that's where I've

50:12

spent 60, 70, sometimes 80 hours

50:14

a week, right? That's extraordinary. So

50:17

feeling part of something matters. feeling

50:19

part of a village that I

50:21

can bond with people, but also

50:24

I can reach out and create

50:26

something better because I did reach

50:28

out or I had that bridging

50:31

capability. I think we need to

50:33

get back to that kind of

50:35

mentality so that people can feel

50:38

more engaged, less disengaged, less disconnected.

50:40

Thank you for sharing that. I'm

50:42

not sure if you're familiar with

50:45

the work of the late Emil

50:47

Bruno, who was a professor. at

50:49

University of Pennsylvania. I love Emil's

50:52

work and it's such a shame

50:54

that he died of cancer. But

50:56

to me, what you're really describing

50:59

is the work he was doing

51:01

around dehumanization and how do you

51:03

humanize work? How do you humanize

51:06

connections? That's exactly. I want to

51:08

go back to the beginning of

51:10

our conversation. We were talking about

51:13

the scarcity of work. And as

51:15

I was reading your book, I

51:17

happened to see a passage that

51:20

you wrote about Thomas Davenport. I've

51:22

known Thomas for 20 years. I

51:24

used to... Before I became a

51:27

CIO was the head of data

51:29

for Lowe's and I used to

51:31

work a lot with him and

51:34

we used to share a lot

51:36

of ideas. But you quote him

51:38

stating, jobs are increasingly viewed as

51:41

undifferentiated and interchangeable across humans and

51:43

machines. Scary. The very definition of

51:45

a commodity. The value of many

51:48

jobs is driven less by their

51:50

intrinsic worth than by market to

51:52

man. And then you write we're

51:55

seeing this in jobs that were

51:57

once prized as only human only

51:59

tasks like writing or content creation

52:02

and are now being completely offset

52:04

by AI. So while technology is

52:06

disrupting the work. And this is

52:09

a question I get from my

52:11

son all the time. He's, I

52:13

want to go back to school.

52:16

I want to learn, but things

52:18

are changing at such a rapid

52:20

pace. Where does this next generation

52:23

focus their skill set so that

52:25

they don't feel they're going to

52:28

become obsolete? And I would throw

52:30

that over to you. Yeah, what

52:32

we're talking about, and we devote

52:35

a whole chapter to the skills

52:37

scarcity issue, which is the half-life

52:39

of skills is shortening and shortening.

52:42

And candidly, your son asked a

52:44

really good question because skills are

52:46

outpacing our educational systems, our traditional

52:49

learning and development models within organizations,

52:51

and they simply can't adapt at

52:53

the pace of change. I think

52:56

that to address this, listen, I

52:58

think technology is fantastic, but we

53:00

have to begin, we have to

53:03

always think about technology as an

53:05

enabler to the work and the

53:07

performance context of an organization. And

53:10

when you think about a performance

53:12

context of an organization, you begin,

53:14

anyone begins with, okay, what's our

53:17

purpose as an organization? purpose drive

53:19

strategy? What is the strategy of

53:21

the organization? What's the strategy of

53:24

the groups within the organization that

53:26

will create that reality for the

53:28

company in the marketplace? Strategy leads

53:31

to culture, culture leads to structure,

53:33

structure leads to design, leads to

53:35

then, or up model, and that

53:38

leads to what are the skills

53:40

that I need? won't go away.

53:42

It may be made faster with

53:45

some data given to us from

53:47

technology, but the reality for performance

53:49

will remain the same and we

53:52

will need to go through those

53:54

steps to define how our companies

53:56

are structured and who runs them,

53:59

right? So. In terms

54:01

of what I think, I'll get

54:03

to the obligation of the individual,

54:06

but the obligation of leaders is

54:08

to keep pace with what skilled

54:10

development their people needs and to

54:13

provide the outlets to get that

54:15

done. Again, if we don't do

54:17

that, we are going to be

54:20

at a deficit of skilled workers.

54:22

in the millions by 2032, six

54:25

million in the United States, right?

54:27

If you think just extrapolate that,

54:29

we're talking about close to billions

54:32

worldwide. So the onus is on

54:34

both the company and on the

54:36

leader to provide those opportunities for

54:39

continuous learning and the time and

54:41

the resources to do. Now, for

54:43

your son, for my kids, for

54:46

my kids, for my kids, they

54:48

need to keep. pace as well

54:50

with defining what is their interest,

54:53

what do they want to learn

54:55

and then the tools are available

54:57

to them. Right? And to begin

55:00

to play with those tools, to

55:02

begin to understand what are those

55:05

tools that they need to develop

55:07

their craft, right? To talk to

55:09

other leaders in how do they

55:12

use technology as a means to

55:14

getting a project done. Now kids

55:16

in colleges are learning this and

55:19

I think some of our educational

55:21

systems are beginning to. create these

55:23

opportunities for more experimentation around technology.

55:26

But frankly, it's happening at the

55:28

high school level, right? And you

55:30

don't need to go to college

55:33

anymore. So I think the resources

55:35

are available. The individual themselves has

55:37

to create their own curiosity and

55:40

their own learning path, if you

55:42

will, to keep pace if the

55:45

organization is not creating them that

55:47

for themselves or if they're not

55:49

in the workplace. I think this

55:52

goes hand in hand with an

55:54

interview I did with Professor Emma

55:56

Sepella where she really talked about

55:59

we need to really think about

56:01

how technology can connect us or

56:03

disconnect us and really focus on

56:06

how it connects us. Now the

56:08

last question I wanted to ask

56:10

you and I'm going to go.

56:13

back to your book is you

56:15

right in the end we must

56:17

honor our people by recognizing what

56:20

we covered today that purpose agency

56:22

well being in connection are not

56:24

just encouraged but required for the

56:27

future of business it is in

56:29

these environments that workers thrive innovation

56:32

flourishes and organizational goals are met

56:34

with unprecedented success. So my question

56:36

to you would be if that's

56:39

the goal of the book what

56:41

is a step? that a listener

56:43

today can do to further them

56:46

on this mission? It's a great

56:48

question. The thing that your listeners

56:50

can do right away is create

56:53

themselves as an emotionally mature leader.

56:55

Create emotional agility and connection. Create

56:57

curiosity, insatiable curiosity about your people

57:00

and the environment. Focus on creating

57:02

those cultures. understand the context in

57:04

which your employees are coming to

57:07

work and what they may be

57:09

dealing with. Those four things, if

57:12

we begin to shift our mindset

57:14

to this suspension of self-interest, our

57:16

behavior to being insatiably curious and

57:19

understanding the contextual context in which

57:21

people are coming to work, and

57:23

then focusing on creating and architecting

57:26

those cultures of excellence that we

57:28

want, that creates a flywheel effect

57:30

that addresses human requirements and invests

57:33

in learning and development for your

57:35

people. And so those are the

57:37

steps, become an emotionally mature leader.

57:40

Christie, thank you so much for

57:42

spending your time with me today

57:44

and for you and your co-author

57:47

coming out with this amazing book.

57:49

Where are the best places that

57:52

people can learn more about you

57:54

and what you're up to? Sure.

57:56

People can go to our book

57:59

website to learn more about the

58:01

book, which is smith dash monaghan.com.

58:03

In terms of myself, you can

58:06

go to Christiesmith. Ph.D. and you

58:08

will find the kind of work

58:10

that I do more about me

58:13

and my company called the Humanity

58:15

Studio. Well, Christie, thank you so

58:17

much. It was such an honor

58:20

and you've had such an amazing

58:22

career. feel very fortunate to have

58:24

you on the show today. Well

58:27

I feel very fortunate to be

58:29

here and it's been so much

58:32

fun talking to you John, thank

58:34

you. And that's a wrap. What

58:36

an incredible conversation with Dr. Christie

58:39

Smith. Her insights on human-powered leadership

58:41

offer a refreshing and much-needed perspective

58:43

in today's world of work. From

58:46

redefining soft skills as power skills

58:48

to cultivating purpose and connection in

58:50

distributed teams. Christie's wisdom provides a

58:53

powerful framework for transforming the workplace

58:55

and ourselves. As we wrap up,

58:57

take a moment to reflect on

59:00

some of the key takeaways from

59:02

today's episode. How can you bring

59:04

more humanity into your leadership or

59:07

interactions? What steps can you take

59:09

to create environments of trust, psychological

59:12

safety, and growth? And how can

59:14

we as individuals and leaders foster

59:16

connection and purpose in an increasingly

59:19

digital and fragmented world? If this

59:21

conversation resonated with you. I'd be

59:23

honored if you left a five-star

59:26

writing interview. Your support helps grow

59:28

this moment and ensures that more

59:30

people can discover these life-changing insights.

59:33

All the resources... discuss today, including

59:35

Christie's new book, Essential, are available

59:37

in the show notes at passionstruck.com.

59:40

Want to dive even deeper? Watch

59:42

the full video version of this

59:44

episode on the John R. Miles

59:47

YouTube channel and be sure to

59:49

hit subscribe so you never miss

59:52

a moment. And if you're looking

59:54

to bring these insights into your

59:56

team organization or event, visit John

59:59

R. miles.com/speaking to learn how we

1:00:01

can collaborate to drive intentional change

1:00:03

together. Coming up next on passionstruck.

1:00:06

I sit on passionstruck. to discuss

1:00:08

his newest book Unanxious and how

1:00:10

overachievers can finally feel less stress

1:00:13

and more calm. We explore identity

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letting go of pressure and why

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peace is found not in perfection

1:00:20

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to miss this conversation. All we

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need in our lives is an

1:00:27

orientation. No matter how specific, no

1:00:29

matter how vague. If we know

1:00:32

where we're going, that in itself

1:00:34

reduces our anxiety. If you put

1:00:36

someone in the middle of the

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desert and they have no idea

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where to go. their anxiety is

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going to go up. Just say,

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hey, head north. That will reduce

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bit of clarity. We need a

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little bit of direction, something that

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we can orient ourselves towards. And

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