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1:35

guys, this is Myra and before we start

1:38

today's episode, I just wanted to remind

1:40

you that if you really love People Fixing

1:42

the World, why not go ahead and

1:44

share it with a friend, with a neighbour,

1:46

with a colleague. Everyone deserves

1:48

some positive news in their

1:50

life. Now, let's get into

1:52

today's episode. People

1:55

Fixing the

1:57

World This

2:00

is People Fixing the World from

2:02

the BBC World Service with me, Myra

2:04

Anoubi. Now this is a programme

2:06

with a difference because when everyone else

2:08

is fixated on the problems, we

2:10

are finding out about solutions. And

2:12

this week we're stepping into the world

2:14

of technology to hear about smart ideas

2:17

that can help improve the lives of

2:19

blind people. As

2:22

you can hear, I am not

2:24

in the studio. I'm outside standing

2:26

on one of the streets that

2:28

surround our office, broadcasting house here

2:30

in London. Now, the reason we're

2:32

outside today will become very clear

2:34

in just a moment. I'm also

2:36

joined by Emma Tracy, a

2:38

fellow BBC reporter and friend,

2:40

and the presenter of Access

2:42

All, a podcast about disability. Hello,

2:45

Emma. Hi, Myra. Now, Emma,

2:47

we are talking about technology today

2:49

and technology that can specifically

2:51

help blind people and just for anyone who's

2:54

listening right now you yourself are blind

2:56

so tell me what are some of the

2:58

things you look for when you're looking

3:00

for the right gadgets to use? I

3:02

think one of the most

3:04

important things is that a blind

3:07

person or visually impaired person has

3:09

been involved in some part of

3:11

the development process so if

3:13

they've been the inventor if they've

3:15

been involved in testing it which

3:17

brings me Myra to my first

3:19

gadget of this episode It

3:21

was created by a blind inventor

3:23

and it's being tested by hundreds

3:25

and hundreds of blind people

3:27

as we speak. It's something that's

3:29

designed to help blind people

3:31

get around more easily. How do

3:34

blind people get around kindly? Well

3:37

there are three main ways. We can

3:39

hold on to someone's arm just above

3:41

the elbow and they walk us slightly

3:43

in front of us. We're being guided

3:45

by them. that's fine but you don't

3:47

always want someone with you necessarily you

3:49

want to do some things in privacy

3:51

go some places without everybody knowing where

3:53

you're going and then there's also a

3:55

guide dog that is there a

3:57

long waiting list for those in lots

4:00

of countries not many people have one

4:02

they cost thousands of dollars to train

4:04

and obviously you have a dog you

4:06

have to feed it you have to

4:08

feed it you have to pick up

4:10

a poo yeah so you know that's

4:12

that's got its own issues but many

4:14

people love having a guide dog too

4:16

and then there's this it's my white

4:18

cane it's a carbon fiber stick essentially

4:20

up to sort of near my shoulder

4:22

it's got a rubber handle to make

4:24

it kind of ergonomic and it's got

4:26

a ball on the end that makes

4:28

that noise when I move it across

4:30

the pavement. So we didn't just come

4:32

out here for the sun these are

4:34

reason why and that's because Emma you're

4:36

going to give us a demonstration of

4:38

what it means to use your cane

4:40

to walk on The streets. Yes,

4:42

I am. And here I go. I mean, I

4:44

love my cane. It's my freedom and I use

4:46

it all the time. It's an

4:49

obstacle detector rather than an obstacle avoider

4:51

so I have to hit things to

4:53

know that they're there with the end

4:55

of the stick rather than with my

4:57

head which is always good. It's

4:59

quite tricky to walk in a straight

5:01

line sometimes with the cane and obviously

5:04

it doesn't have any tech in it

5:06

so it's not telling me where to

5:08

go so if I needed to go

5:10

around an unfamiliar place I'd also have

5:12

an app on the go but then

5:14

if you've got children and other things

5:16

going on it's hard to do all

5:19

of that. at the same time and

5:21

presumably now we are out on the

5:23

streets but you're not so exactly where

5:25

we are yeah this is unfamiliar so

5:27

i've just found a bit of a

5:29

jotting out bit of wall and now

5:31

i'm gonna i'm at a crossing so

5:34

i'm not actually uh is this just

5:36

a small crossing or should i not

5:38

attempt it i wonder we are actually

5:40

on zebra crossing so we can proceed

5:42

okay so in such In such a

5:44

scenario Emma, you would need someone there

5:46

with you, just kind of direct you.

5:49

No, no, I'd either use an app

5:51

and try or I'd use someone's arm

5:53

or I wouldn't do it. So,

5:56

you know, it depends on how strong

5:58

I'm feeling and how sort of like

6:00

confident I am today what I would

6:02

choose to do. I do love to

6:04

walk around by myself but it's just

6:06

hard work. And there

6:08

are loads of blind people who are

6:10

absolutely brilliant at using their cane. Sorry

6:14

about that, apologies. And,

6:17

you know, have an amazing ability

6:19

to get around unfamiliar places. But I'm

6:21

the kind of person who thinks

6:23

I probably would like a bit more

6:25

technology in my mobility aid. And

6:28

that's why I'm really interested to find

6:30

out what's new and what's good.

6:32

So let's talk about that. What is

6:34

this new gadget that you found,

6:36

Emma? So it's essentially a robot that

6:38

looks a bit like a cordless

6:40

vacuum cleaner. So yeah, it's

6:42

going to be full of driverless

6:45

car technology. I went to see

6:47

it in Los Angeles and I gave it a try

6:49

as well. So

6:54

Glide is the first of

6:56

its kind autonomous mobility aid. We

6:58

call it an intelligent guide. This

7:01

is Amos Miller. He's the inventor

7:03

of Glide and that's a new

7:05

gadget that helps us get about. Amos

7:07

himself is blind and he already

7:09

uses the device every day. It

7:12

is effectively a robot but it

7:14

doesn't look anything like a robot.

7:16

It doesn't dance and doesn't do

7:18

pirouettes. And it's not shaped

7:20

like a little dog. It's not shaped

7:22

like a little person or a dog. Really

7:24

what it is, it's a

7:26

device with two wheels on the

7:28

ground, a long handle,

7:31

the user holds the

7:33

handle and begins to

7:36

walk. And what happens when they

7:38

begin to walk? The wheels steer the way.

7:40

But what else is in it? What's

7:43

doing it? Don't get

7:45

too technical on me. Sensors?

7:49

What's in there? Yeah, so the main thing

7:51

are two 3D cameras. So they're able

7:54

to see the environment in front of you

7:56

in 3D. In front

7:58

and also on the ground looking

8:00

for hazards, looking for trip hazards and

8:02

also what we call cliffs which

8:04

are things basically anything you can

8:06

fall off right like the edge of a

8:08

curb with steps platforms and things but it might

8:10

as well be a clip when you can't

8:13

see because you never know how deep it is.

8:15

Of course I didn't come all

8:18

the way to LA to talk

8:20

about glide in the abstract I

8:22

want to give it a go

8:24

so I take the device in

8:26

one hand and Amos walks within

8:28

touching distance of me using his

8:30

cane. So now

8:32

I'm going to Point

8:35

us in the direction that I think

8:37

we'll be going in. I'm

8:39

a bit nervous. I'm glad to

8:41

hear that. Because I'm giving

8:43

you my mobility aid, I'm just going to

8:45

pull out my cane as my backup aid,

8:47

because I just want to make sure that

8:49

I'm... Sorry, there we go. I've got a

8:51

blind man with a cane helping a blind

8:53

lady with a glide. So shall I go?

8:55

Yep. So now we'll just

8:57

go and let it do its thing. Now

8:59

what you have to do is follow your

9:02

doing. Great, look at you. You

9:05

know that feeling when you're pushing

9:07

a supermarket trolley and it has

9:09

a wonky wheel and it suddenly

9:11

swerves to the side? That's

9:13

what this feels like. Glide

9:15

does it to protect you, but

9:17

it still feels a little

9:19

unnerving when it happens. Oh,

9:21

why did it go over there? I don't know. I think

9:23

there must be something in the front of us. Oh. So

9:27

it just moved, it just, it just

9:29

sort of took me out a just

9:31

reacted to the environment. No,

9:33

what I want you to do is just get a little

9:35

bit more behind it. OK, because I'm used to a dog.

9:37

You see, I'm treating this like a dog. Come

9:40

on, boy. But there is

9:42

a difference, and that is that

9:44

blind people work their dogs for weeks

9:46

before they're allowed to do a

9:48

journey just the two of them. And

9:50

that's to build up trust. Me

9:53

and Lide have only had five

9:55

minutes, and there's still quite a

9:57

lot of mutual suspicion. And

9:59

I realise things are about

10:01

to get worse when Amos moves

10:04

away Now you do it

10:06

yourself Don't walk too fast It's

10:08

very odd for me because

10:10

I just feel like I've got

10:12

the cordless vacuum out But

10:14

it's got a mind of its

10:16

own, so it's just moved

10:18

me around something And it's... Oh!

10:21

I don't know am I

10:23

doing this right? It's moved me

10:25

around I feel like I'm

10:27

going round in circles now I'm

10:29

kind of shuffling along like

10:31

a scared little lady honestly though

10:33

it's not as bad as

10:35

it sounds give me any new

10:38

piece of tech and it's

10:40

going to take me a while

10:42

to get used to it

10:44

and sure enough after another five

10:46

minutes my confidence is high

10:48

dangerously high what would happen if

10:50

i ran or walked really

10:52

quickly let's find out sorry this

10:55

is a a little bit

10:57

scary. I feel like I'm pushing

10:59

my kid in a wagon

11:01

or something and the kid's got

11:03

his feet on the floor

11:05

and is trying to show me

11:07

where it's going. Next. First

11:12

of all, well done. Thank you. I

11:14

think it was amazing to see even the

11:16

progress in the last 10 minutes when

11:18

you've been using the device. So yeah, so

11:20

I've been wandering around for ages but

11:23

I have no idea what I've done or

11:25

where I've gone. It's been fun but...

11:27

don't think I'd take it to the shop

11:29

just now because there'd be not enough,

11:31

maybe not enough information coming back to me.

11:33

And you're absolutely right. So one of

11:35

the things that we're working on is what

11:37

we call line of sight targeting where

11:39

you can, where

11:41

Glide will detect potential targets in the

11:43

environment like the dropped curb, like

11:45

the door to the store and things

11:47

of that nature so that you

11:49

can set those as destination. And when

11:51

will we have that? One

11:54

step at a time. In

11:57

the future, Amos says, I'll

12:00

be able to talk to Glide and Glide

12:02

will be able to talk back. Hey

12:04

Glide, take me to the elevator. Hey

12:07

Glide, take me to the nearest bus

12:09

stop. With combinations

12:11

of mapping data and routes

12:14

saved by other users, it'll

12:16

become easier for blind people

12:18

to travel around new places. Now,

12:20

that'll be a big jump

12:22

forward from the prototype I've just

12:24

tried, but there is a

12:26

reason why I'm not dismissing these

12:28

promises as pie in the

12:30

sky, and that reason is

12:33

Amos Miller himself. Before he

12:35

set up his new company,

12:37

Amos was a senior product

12:39

strategist with Microsoft when they

12:41

launched Soundscape, a celebrated navigation

12:43

app for blind people. He's

12:45

also been the chair of

12:47

Guide Dogs UK, so

12:49

if anyone can create a new

12:51

way for blind people to get about,

12:53

it's this guy. Maybe that's

12:55

why lots of blind people

12:58

have already pre -ordered the guide. Chris

13:01

and Michaela. I got to walk with

13:03

it last year and I was so thrilled.

13:05

I almost cried. It was so emotional.

13:07

Why? Why? Because just to be

13:09

able to walk freely and not worry

13:11

and not wonder if I was going

13:13

to run into something. And it's going

13:15

to have the navigation mapping connected to

13:17

it so you can just use the

13:19

device and it's guiding you to where

13:21

you're going and so you don't have

13:23

to have your phone out listening to

13:25

turn by turn directions which can get

13:27

distracting when you're traveling. So

13:29

if you're just having a device that's kind of all in

13:31

one. Right. And I think it's really

13:33

going to be a game changer for us. Emma

13:37

and I are back in studio now.

13:39

And Emma, just listening to you using

13:41

the glide device, I'm just wondering, it

13:43

sounded a bit complicated. How

13:45

was it really? It was a

13:47

bit of a wild ride, Myra, but as I kept

13:50

doing it, I got used to it and I

13:52

kind of got to like it in the end. And

13:55

is this thing going to

13:57

be very expensive? What kind of

13:59

numbers are we talking about?

14:01

It's going to be $1499 and

14:03

there will be a $30

14:05

a month subscription thereafter. The

14:07

company's hopeful that the first version

14:09

will go out to pre -order

14:11

customers like Chris and Michaela in

14:13

late summer and that it will

14:15

go out to regular customers by

14:18

the end of the year. And

14:20

are there any other mobility robots

14:22

out there? And if so, how

14:24

does this one compare to the

14:26

others? There are smart mobility

14:28

aids out there and they're smart canes,

14:30

but they are still essentially canes. So

14:32

they're obstacle detectors rather than avoiders. You

14:34

have to hit things with them to

14:37

find them. They've got vibrating technology in

14:39

the handle to tell you which way

14:41

to turn and also to tell

14:43

you if there's an overhead obstacle, which

14:45

is very handy because I have walked

14:47

into a lot of bushes in my

14:49

time. And they've also got a bit

14:51

of speaking technology for a bit more

14:54

information, but they are essentially Cane's obstacle

14:56

detectors. And Emma, I saw you use

14:58

your cane and you were good. You

15:00

know, you were amazing at using it.

15:02

But like, how would the glide be

15:04

different for you, for example? Well,

15:07

the glide is full of...

15:09

AI, artificial intelligence, it's learning

15:11

all the time. So

15:13

whenever someone else uses their glide, the

15:15

information goes up into the cloud

15:17

theoretically in the future models and back

15:20

into my glide. So if

15:22

someone has been to an airport

15:24

and done the journey from gate 25

15:26

to the baggage claim, then I

15:28

will be able to say to my

15:30

glide, take me to baggage claim

15:32

when I get off the airplane. At

15:34

the moment, I use airport assistance,

15:36

which is a really, really busy service

15:38

and sometimes I'm waiting quite a

15:40

long time to get help off the

15:42

plane so I think a glide

15:44

would be really really good in that

15:46

scenario. Do you think folks, especially

15:48

people who for example depend on dogs

15:50

instead, do you think this could

15:52

really make a difference for them? I

15:54

think that there are blind people who

15:56

love guide dogs and who are excellent users

15:59

of guide dogs and wouldn't want anything

16:01

else. I also think that there are expert

16:03

cane users who feel that the cane

16:05

and maybe an app and their own marvellous

16:07

sense of direction is adequate and gives

16:09

them exactly what they need. But there are

16:11

lots of blind people who I think

16:13

kind of go under the radar quite a

16:16

lot. And there are people who don't

16:18

use a cane or a dog. A lot

16:20

of those people don't go out by

16:22

themselves just now. So if the glide encourages

16:24

people and gives them confidence and it's

16:26

got a small enough learning curve, then that's

16:28

a really good thing as well. I'm

16:34

Zing Singh and I'm Simon Jack and together

16:37

we host Good Bad billionaire the podcast

16:39

exploring the lies of some of the

16:41

world's richest people in the new season We're

16:43

setting our sights on some big names. Yep

16:45

LeBron James and Martha Stewart to name just

16:48

a few and as always Simon and I

16:50

are trying to decide whether we think they're

16:52

good bad or just another billionaire that's

16:54

good bad billionaire from the BBC

16:57

world service Listen now wherever you get

16:59

your BBC podcasts You're

17:10

listening to People Fixing the World

17:12

from the BBC World Service with me,

17:14

Myra Anoubi. And on this week's

17:16

programme, we are finding out how technology

17:18

can improve the lives of blind

17:20

people. Now, I've still got Emma

17:23

Tracy here with me. Emma Tracy

17:25

is a BBC presenter for the podcast

17:27

Access All, and she's telling us

17:29

about different gadgets today. Yes, and can

17:31

I tell you something very exciting,

17:33

Myra? When I was in LA, I

17:35

met someone very, very famous. Can

17:37

you guess who it is? I know,

17:39

Brad Pitt? No, it

17:41

was at a disability

17:43

technology show. Okay, let's

17:46

see. Famous blind person?

17:48

Yes, you're hotter. Okay,

17:51

I know. Ray Charles

17:53

is dead. Stevie Wonder? Yes,

17:56

Stevie Wonder. I was kidding.

17:58

Yes, I was speaking to him

18:00

for a documentary I was

18:02

making about Braille, one of my

18:04

favorite subjects. And

18:06

that's the system of writing

18:08

that blind people use. My

18:11

first memories of learning

18:13

Braille actually was when I

18:15

was very little, was

18:17

using the board nails and

18:19

then they had the

18:22

stylists and then the braille

18:24

writer. This

18:26

technology through The

18:29

Brains of Louis Braille made

18:31

it possible for blind people to

18:33

not only read but to

18:35

discover the world. Now Emma

18:37

Stevie mentions having to use

18:39

a board and nails. to

18:42

communicate, to write? Yes,

18:44

that's right. He actually

18:46

mentioned three gadgets there. So

18:48

all braille letters are combinations

18:50

of raised dots that we

18:52

read under our index finger. And

18:55

they used to be taught using

18:57

a board and nails, literally a

18:59

board hammering some nails into it

19:01

to represent those dots. Stevie

19:04

also mentioned the slate and stylus,

19:06

which is where you sort of pin

19:08

prick out each dot with a

19:10

little sharp thing in a little plastic

19:12

frame onto a piece of paper.

19:14

So a little bit slow and you

19:16

also have to write backwards as

19:18

well. And he also mentioned a sort

19:20

of Braille typewriter, which punches out

19:22

those dots onto paper when you press

19:24

the right keys. But

19:26

none of these tools are great

19:28

for drawing pictures, which brings me

19:31

to my next gadget, Myra. I'll

19:33

just reach down and get it.

19:35

It's called a Braille Doodle.

19:37

Right. So this looks like a

19:39

tablet, but one without a screen. It's

19:42

blue in color. And I also

19:44

notice a pen attached to it.

19:46

Yeah, I love this. This is

19:48

a magnetic stylus. And what you

19:50

do is you poke the stylus

19:53

into one of the many many

19:55

holes because there's thousands of holes

19:57

in this in this little tablet

19:59

and a little ball pops up

20:01

and makes it tactile. Would

20:03

you like to try? Yes. So I've

20:05

got it with me now. It

20:07

does love the noise. You

20:09

can tell it's got like

20:11

hundreds of balls in there

20:13

and you have the stylus

20:15

pen that is magnetic attached

20:17

to the tablet and as

20:19

I drag the stylus across

20:21

the tablet The balls

20:23

pop up and they stay in place

20:26

so that means I can kind of

20:28

create a sort of raised image that

20:30

someone can feel. Now

20:32

on one side there are some templates

20:34

for writing braille but If

20:36

I turn it over, there's a

20:38

big open space where I can use

20:40

a stylus pen to draw anything.

20:42

Yes. Yeah, you can draw pictures, diagrams,

20:45

little graphs, which is

20:47

very, very useful for explaining a

20:49

concept to a blind child or

20:51

just for drawing some art and

20:54

for understanding shapes, really good for

20:56

as well. So yeah, it's been

20:58

really fun. Me and my Son

21:00

have been playing with it quite a

21:03

lot and he's been drawing things and I've

21:05

been trying to guess what they are

21:07

and and that's been really That's actually been

21:09

lovely time together. And he's been writing

21:11

me notes on the braille side as well,

21:13

because obviously there are print letters there

21:15

too. So he doesn't need to know braille

21:17

to be able to braille me out

21:19

a message. So we've been, we've been writing

21:21

maybe slightly inappropriate words to each other

21:24

just for fun, like maybe poo, etc. Well,

21:26

when you're a mom, those words are actually very

21:28

appropriate. Have

21:30

you been to the toilet? Yes. Yes. And

21:33

at some age, at certain ages, everything

21:36

is just poo. Every other word they say.

21:38

And my boys are those ages right now.

21:40

So yeah, we've been having a lot of

21:42

fun with this. And it's so surprising because

21:44

it's such a simple concept. So if my

21:46

seven -year -old can draw me a picture, do

21:48

you think you could draw me a picture?

21:50

I'm going to try and draw your picture.

21:52

I'm not very good at drawing, but I

21:54

will give you a hint. It's not true.

21:58

And it's something that

22:00

would probably use

22:02

in this studio. Let's

22:07

see. Do not judge me by my

22:09

drawing skill. Okay, you did give me

22:12

a hint to be fair. So

22:14

it's got a stem, baby.

22:17

Oh. So I'm gonna, like I know in

22:19

my head it's a microphone, but it

22:21

is a microphone. It's a microphone. For

22:24

anyone listening, my drawing skills are actually

22:26

really good. We've just confirmed that. There's a

22:28

circle on the top and there's a

22:30

stem on the bottom, but what's this little

22:32

bit? I tried to kind of like

22:34

create these tiny dots that the holes in

22:36

the microphone. See,

22:40

I went all out. Yeah.

22:42

But you know, this is this would

22:44

have been great when I was a

22:46

kid because, you know, graphs and diagrams

22:48

and stuff like that, they were either

22:50

produced on an expensive Braille printer, which

22:52

we use a lot. I use for

22:54

longer scripts and to Braille big documents

22:56

out and things like that. Or they

22:58

would have been drawn like kind of

23:00

on a tracing paper sort of situation.

23:02

Or with sometimes if it was straight

23:04

lines, someone wanted to show me they

23:06

would get out the wrong spaghetti and

23:08

stick it to a piece of paper.

23:11

spaghetti. Raw spaghetti, yeah, and stick it to

23:13

a piece of paper. Maybe if it was

23:15

a teacher teaching me a route to somewhere,

23:17

they might do the direction, so they would

23:19

do it with the raw spaghetti. So there

23:21

were lots of different ways, but I feel

23:23

like if they'd had access to this, they

23:26

would have used it. So who

23:28

created this? It was invented

23:30

by Daniel Lubner, who I met in

23:32

Los Angeles. Now Daniel can see, but

23:34

he's an art teacher and his students

23:36

are blind. I wonder what Daniel would

23:38

have thought of my drawing. We won't

23:40

go into that though, as an art

23:42

teacher. But I'm wondering, sometimes when we

23:44

hear about new inventions, we just think

23:46

expensive. How much does this one cost?

23:49

This one costs around $150 so that

23:51

might sound like quite a lot

23:53

of money but in terms of disability

23:55

kit it really really isn't and

23:58

he has sold about 750 so far

24:00

and he's hoping to get it

24:02

into more and more countries as he

24:04

goes along because I think what's

24:06

also nice is it doesn't need electricity

24:08

you know it's pretty durable so

24:10

I think many many countries would be

24:12

able to make use of this

24:15

for one thing or another. Is there

24:17

anything else out there that's similar

24:19

to Braille Dudo? Yes,

24:21

coming on stream now are very

24:23

high -tech Braille displays which, unlike

24:25

older versions, are more than

24:27

one line so they're multi -line

24:29

and what you can do is

24:31

from your phone or computer. Draw

24:34

an icon or a diagram or

24:36

a graph or a picture and it

24:38

will pop up in tiny dots

24:40

So in quite a lot of detail

24:42

on these machines These machines can

24:44

be around 8 ,000 pounds So they're

24:47

a very different price to the braille

24:49

doodle and they also do quite

24:51

a different thing But they've got the

24:53

same concept so that's about $10 ,000,

24:55

right? Well, it's been

24:57

great to have you on the show today. I

25:00

am still very jealous. I will put that

25:02

out there that you got to meet Stevie. And

25:04

yes, I'm calling him Stevie because now, because

25:06

you met him, we're on first name basis. Yeah,

25:08

we are friends by ourselves. Yes, exactly.

25:11

But thank you for what you've shared today.

25:13

And keep us posted about these gadgets.

25:15

I certainly will. It's been lovely. Now

25:20

Emma mentioned her recent documentary about

25:22

Braille and it's available as a

25:24

podcast. All you need to do

25:26

is search for Braille and me

25:28

wherever you listen to yours and

25:30

I'll be back next week at

25:32

the same time with more ideas

25:34

that are making a difference in

25:36

our world. Until then, thanks for

25:38

listening. I'm

25:45

Xingxing and I'm Simon Jack and together

25:47

we host Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast

25:50

exploring the lives of some of the world's

25:52

richest people. In the new season, we're

25:54

setting our sights on some big names.

25:56

Yep, LeBron James and Martha Stewart to name

25:58

just a few. And as always, Simon

26:00

and I are trying to decide whether we

26:02

think they're good, bad or just another

26:04

billionaire. That's Good bad billionaire from the

26:06

BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get

26:09

your BBC podcasts.