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to tier11.com/apply. Hello and welcome to the

2:42

provincial traffic podcast. This is your host

2:44

Ralph Burns and the founder and CEO

2:46

of Tier 11 and today's show is

2:49

part two. of our two-part series on

2:51

why Roas sucks. And like I mentioned

2:53

in the first show earlier this week,

2:56

if you have not listened to that

2:58

show from earlier this week, go back

3:00

and listen to it. Why Roas sucks

3:02

and the number one metric that we

3:05

use here, which we have started to

3:07

reveal here, and we're going to get

3:09

into more detail on that specifically on

3:12

today's show. This is a super important

3:14

episode and like I mentioned in our

3:16

first rebroadcast. This is one of the

3:18

most downloaded shows that we've ever done

3:21

here on provincial traffic and I think

3:23

the reason is is because it's counterintuitive.

3:25

It's very relevant to a lot of

3:28

the marketers who are listening to this

3:30

show and you as a marketer, you

3:32

as a CEO, you as a director

3:34

of marketing or a VP of marketing.

3:37

This is something that probably your team

3:39

is getting caught up with and having

3:41

been on multiple. dozens of client calls

3:44

the last couple of weeks. This is

3:46

still a metric that rules the day,

3:48

which is ROAS. And ROAS is a

3:50

no longer a leading metric. There are

3:53

better ways to measure the growth and

3:55

scale of your business online. Roas, especially

3:57

in app, sucks. And John and I

4:00

get into exactly why and how to

4:02

use this new metric in order to

4:04

scale and grow your business. So we

4:06

get into some other things here, which

4:09

is how to use meta for prospecting

4:11

and Google for conversions. John gets deeper

4:13

into that, sort of deeper into the

4:15

funnel, how we use the two platforms

4:18

together. Once again, this is the first

4:20

episode that we did with John as

4:22

a member of Tier 11. Remember when

4:25

he was over at Solutions, he was

4:27

only a Google guy. Now he is

4:29

a multi-channel guy and has a lot

4:32

more tools in the toolbox. So

4:34

we talk about that here, as

4:36

well as how to choose the

4:38

right product to sell. If you're

4:40

struggling with that on both meta

4:42

and Google and how to use

4:44

them together, because meta, Google,

4:46

email, social, SEO, TikTok, Snapchat,

4:48

they all work together to

4:51

create conversions. They're not isolated

4:53

in their own little silo.

4:55

That's an old way of

4:57

looking at things. If you're

4:59

looking at it first click,

5:02

Roas on all the individual

5:04

platforms, you're looking at it

5:06

the wrong way. You're fighting

5:08

me. You're fighting yourself with

5:11

the money that you're spending

5:13

and the time that you're

5:15

spending on all your other

5:18

marketing activities as well.

5:20

So let's get right into it

5:22

here. It's part two of myself

5:24

and John. Take it away, boys.

5:29

So we looked at the last few years and

5:32

we saw that meta kept pushing a little

5:34

bit harder and it hit a point of

5:36

division return and it became not profitable.

5:38

So the client was upset. So I have had

5:40

two calls with this client. One was to get

5:42

the lay of the land and do the hours

5:44

worth of research in order to figure out what

5:47

happened and then one hour to rebuild the campaigns

5:49

instead of Google. And now the person's kind of

5:51

just often done to their own. So I didn't

5:53

have necessarily a chance to look inside a meta

5:55

too much. It was just on a screen share.

5:57

But what was happening was meta was going after.

5:59

They didn't have exclusions. They didn't necessarily have,

6:02

it was just a spend on whatever meta

6:04

wants to spend kind of thing. And then

6:06

Google was like, all right, because it's performance

6:08

max, spend on whatever Google wants to spend.

6:10

So it was just kind of two ships

6:13

passing in the night, but also crashing into

6:15

each other and not realizing it. So the

6:17

meta spend just kind of kept scaling and

6:19

then didn't really push the bottom line. And

6:21

then when they pulled back 40% year over

6:24

year from February to February. there wasn't a

6:26

reduction in that overall revenue. That's where we

6:28

looked at is meta was it was non-targeted

6:30

spend and non-excluded spend that just kept

6:33

growing and when it pulled back. It

6:35

was like, okay, it's probably going up

6:37

on like sites or Advantage Plus, we're

6:40

just kind of like spending it to

6:42

whoever they wanted to spend on it.

6:44

It wasn't actually going towards

6:46

prospecting. So what we did is

6:48

said, hold tight on meta, don't

6:50

do anything on meta. We want

6:52

to change Google first. going from

6:54

warm irrelevant audiences to good proper

6:56

cold traffic with quality items, you do

6:58

want to measure that change and then next

7:00

do the same thing on better and see

7:03

how that doubles downs on that. And then

7:05

talk about scaling is using Omni Channel using

7:07

the same amount of ad spend increases. per

7:09

platform regardless of what their levels are at,

7:11

which means if men are doing 70 grand

7:13

and Google doing 30 and you want to

7:15

scale, add 20% to both channels equally. You

7:17

want to interrupt the life cycle paths with

7:19

the customer journey, you just want to amplify

7:21

it. So that would be phase like three.

7:24

But this first phase was what channel do

7:26

we go through first? And because this is

7:28

a in demand type of product that does

7:30

have a great amount of inbound search,

7:32

it was just very easy to clean

7:34

of Google first. Yeah. They kept meta

7:36

in essence the same. You wanted to

7:38

change the one variable and see how

7:40

that would be impacted. Yeah, if we go

7:42

after cold traffic, detach Google from

7:45

meta and turn Google into a

7:47

prospecting network and not a regurgitation

7:50

of semi-poor meta traffic, what happens?

7:52

It goes after new customers and

7:54

it does grow and it does

7:56

scale. That's fixed. Now we have

7:58

to fix meta. And then once

8:00

those both are fixed, you can then

8:03

start to scale both equally. But it's

8:05

kind of two underperforming channels,

8:07

fix one, see how it works, if it's

8:09

fixed, fix the other one, see if that's

8:11

fixed as well, and then scale both.

8:13

Another important part to this that

8:16

I think I don't want to

8:18

lose this in the translation here

8:20

is that the 80-20 of marketing,

8:22

like the Beretto principle of. put

8:25

your best most profitable products in

8:27

front of those cold traffic audiences,

8:29

especially the ones that you know

8:31

are your bestsellers. Like it's just,

8:34

I don't even know if that

8:36

idea unto itself is something that

8:38

a lot of businesses even think

8:40

of. Like how many skews does

8:43

this company have in total? Dozens

8:45

or is it thousands? Yeah, I'm

8:47

still in it. So this is

8:49

actually 764. Okay, so out of

8:51

those the 80-20 is, let's say,

8:53

it's 100 products, maybe 50. 80

8:55

something, yeah. 80 something, okay, somewhere

8:57

in there, and that shift just

8:59

on its own, taking that out

9:01

of Performance Max, which I don't

9:03

know as if we've had you

9:06

on, talking about Performance Max, because

9:08

you were all about Performance Max

9:10

years ago, and you know, you

9:12

know. It is still fantastic for

9:14

specific use cases. Yeah. But if

9:16

you fill it up with junk

9:19

meta traffic. You can't scale it.

9:21

Yeah, because it'll just re-target on

9:23

brand, really. Re-target junk traffic and

9:25

only show up for brand. And

9:28

then it learns off of that.

9:30

So, it's so, there's so many

9:32

different moving parts and pieces. You

9:35

want to see the irony of

9:37

this? I made it my golden

9:39

rule to never have a digital

9:42

marketing gold rule. It's so, it's

9:44

so, there's so many different moving

9:47

parts of pieces. scenario specifically to

9:49

your business. And that's what's interesting.

9:51

There is no what is the best. What

9:53

is the best is finding the best campaign

9:56

hierarchy and structure on each channel for that

9:58

businesses. Is it over 300? or under

10:00

$300. Is it imposed by or is

10:02

it not? What's the sale cycle? Do

10:04

they return? How often do they return?

10:07

Do you have influencers that are driving

10:09

a whole bunch of traffic that Performance

10:11

Max and Advantage Plus are going to

10:13

remark? So many variables. Like exactly. There's

10:16

a thousand variables I can think of

10:18

where it's like the best is for

10:20

that use case, the best would be

10:22

this, but is vastly different through a

10:24

normal business. Same type of customer, different

10:27

industry with a different background with a

10:29

different background. Right. I think this is,

10:31

I want to go back a little

10:33

bit to what you said is the,

10:36

whatever it's like the, driving the most

10:38

amount of traffic to the proper product.

10:40

I almost would say that most businesses

10:42

do think that way, the good ones

10:44

do. And a lot of people that

10:47

are in positions of power will still

10:49

sing that from the mountaintops team. We

10:51

need to get the traffic to these

10:53

products. The problem is, agencies may not

10:56

necessarily do that if they seem good

10:58

or quote unquote roas. So it's like,

11:00

well, we're getting a 5X. Do we

11:02

really want to do what that guy

11:04

says? Well, yeah, that's the owner of

11:07

the company. He built it. Now he's

11:09

here or she's here because of what

11:11

they know what to do. But your

11:13

Roas is going to stop that. And

11:15

if you make these changes, then you

11:18

see that Roas dips down 40% or

11:20

whatever it just dipped on me, you're

11:22

going to panic and switch back. If

11:24

you actually put the aspen towards the

11:27

products that have built the company and

11:29

measured differently and do an Omni channel,

11:31

wow, what a novel idea. Like let's

11:33

drive traffic to a good product as

11:35

hell. Right, right. When a lot of

11:38

clients come to us, they can think

11:40

of multiple examples here, they say, all

11:42

right, well, here's our strategy, this is

11:44

what we're doing, and then when I

11:47

was doing this day in and day

11:49

out, I'd be like, all right, well,

11:51

if you want to market your company,

11:53

So your bestseller is the most popular,

11:55

ideally least competition plus highest. net operating

11:58

income gross profitability contribution margin you know

12:00

name your metric like those are the

12:02

ones that matter the most because I

12:04

can get an 800% row ass on

12:07

a seven dollar product that you make

12:09

a buck on right you know it

12:11

look like a hero but that doesn't

12:13

move your business forward so I think

12:15

that just unto itself these are a

12:18

little bit more involved concepts that have

12:20

nothing to do with traffic but it's

12:22

just decision-making and understanding the business And

12:24

my sense is that with this customer,

12:27

it's probably one of the first things

12:29

that you asked, is, well, let's say

12:31

8020 this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The shocking

12:33

thing, if you're running Google Ads right

12:35

now, or if you're even your own

12:38

business, hop into your Google Ads account

12:40

as an example. Before you click on

12:42

a campaign, just click product, click your

12:44

product list, it'll show you all the

12:47

products that are all marketed in all

12:49

campaigns, sort descending by cost. Not conversions,

12:51

not conversion rate, not row at, sort

12:53

descending by cost. Look at the five

12:55

products there and say, cost of ad

12:58

spend. Okay, ad spend, got it. Yeah,

13:00

yeah, so when you sort decent by

13:02

cost, that'll tell you what the ad

13:04

spend is being spent on. So when

13:07

you sort decending by cost, that'll tell

13:09

you what the ad spend is being

13:11

spent on. So when you sort descending

13:13

by cost, ask yourself, are these the

13:15

five products that I should be saying,

13:18

you know what, you know what, crap,

13:20

I shouldn't be spending a majority of

13:22

my aspen on these five products. Right

13:24

there you know that you have a

13:27

structure problem for your business period. That's

13:29

it. I don't care what the role

13:31

is. I don't care. I don't care

13:33

anything. That is a structural issue in

13:35

your business. If especially if it's performance,

13:38

Max, you have very little control over.

13:40

So it's quite interesting. Yeah, it is.

13:42

Do you factor in that question about...

13:44

best selling plus most profitable ultimately at

13:47

the end of the day like we

13:49

want to be able to scale and

13:51

grow businesses and you don't do that

13:53

necessarily just by top line growth but

13:55

you really are looking at and every

13:58

business has this differently we've had customers

14:00

set it up inside meta for example

14:02

like I don't even care about what

14:04

this what the retail price is I

14:07

just want to know what the contribution

14:09

margin is we alter our conversion value

14:11

or net profitability like net operating I'm

14:13

like I want to know exactly what

14:15

I net on everything for those the

14:18

types of conversations that agencies should be

14:20

having with with businesses just to begin

14:22

with because for me When I'm talking

14:24

to my team, it's like, care about

14:27

gross profitability, care about net operating income,

14:29

I care about customer centricity, which feeds

14:31

all of that. But those are the

14:33

types of conversations that I don't think

14:35

a whole lot of agencies really have

14:37

in this day and age. No, no,

14:39

not at all. And that's the part

14:41

that just is shocking to me. Here's

14:43

a great example. This is one that

14:45

we don't even necessarily need to blur.

14:47

There's a company that I'm a small

14:49

equity owner in. Another screen share fun

14:51

with John Moran here. Yeah. Yeah, baby.

14:54

So I'll do this here. And this

14:56

is the part where it gets real

14:58

fun. I'll actually share two examples on

15:00

this part. This did this period here.

15:02

If we look at this time period

15:04

here, which is just February 1st

15:07

to the 21st, you'll see something

15:09

here that we have net quantity

15:11

sorting descending. We are in Shopify

15:14

now, we are in the back

15:16

end of Shopify, which is one

15:18

of the things that John typically

15:21

looks at first, because that's what

15:23

kind of matters. It's where the

15:25

money's collected. This is what you

15:28

should be doing necessarily before you

15:30

even start marketing. Yeah, really. I

15:32

mean, if you have any sort

15:35

of sales. Yeah. Yeah. And so

15:37

we're looking at like what products

15:39

have what sort of profit margin.

15:41

And I think we started this

15:43

on the 25th. So this is

15:45

the kind of after it's 54%

15:47

profit margin where I think it

15:49

would just take two weeks before

15:51

that was at 52. So it's

15:53

funny is when we look at

15:55

the this beef cheek roll here

15:57

had a 62% profit margin had

15:59

27. sales. And I think here, for

16:01

example, this beef cheek roll out now

16:04

has 46 sales. So when from 27

16:06

to 46, we just changed the meta

16:08

ads and we drove our gross margin

16:10

for 52% up to 54% in two

16:12

weeks. Like, excellent. What changed? We just

16:14

changed the meta ad of what we're

16:17

marketing to a more profitable product. Whoa!

16:19

Like groundbreaking novel idea. Like holy crap.

16:21

And for our listeners that may not

16:23

know the difference between gross. contribution and

16:25

net in your case here gross margin

16:27

is what specifically for this customer yeah

16:30

so this is just our net sales

16:32

of the products minus the cogs what

16:34

it costs for us to manufacture and

16:36

ship the product out right so that

16:38

is gross profit just for those of

16:40

you who are not familiar with some

16:43

of these accounting terms which are kind

16:45

of important terms if you're an agency

16:47

you don't know this shit you should

16:49

get an accounting book or read something

16:51

on it. Anyway, I digress, you were

16:53

rolling there. So going up from 52

16:56

to 54, pretty nice increase. About 12

16:58

days. Yeah, and about 12 days. Yeah,

17:00

what's interesting is actually, I'll do this

17:02

here. I'm going to pull up that

17:04

meta account. And you want to know

17:06

what's funny is this is a fairly

17:09

small account. I mean, we're just doing

17:11

stuff. And this is all fake. That's

17:13

not actually what they call tofu. So

17:15

for listeners, I can't see my screen.

17:17

I'm just taking a campaign that was

17:19

already running and just simply just changing

17:22

around what happened internally. But all we

17:24

did here is you see everything else

17:26

was shut off here and we just

17:28

started marketing those beef cheeks. And it's

17:30

literally just one ad inside the beef

17:32

cheek. and the beef cheek what we

17:35

did is say hey are you a

17:37

person who is a website visitor well

17:39

you're excluded has bought anything ever you're

17:41

excluded as well so if you ever

17:43

heard about us or been to our

17:45

website you're not allowed to see my

17:48

ads anymore and when we did that

17:50

now a beef cheek role is by

17:52

any stretch but at least you're doing

17:54

that right there if you're not it's

17:56

the biggest mistake we see and all

17:58

Meadow accounts, John. Yeah, well, reason why

18:01

this one was so bad, and the

18:03

reason why we took this such a

18:05

harsh approach is because Meadow was spending

18:07

about, it had about 60% of its

18:09

attributed sales to existing customers. And

18:11

when we just, we said, hey, before

18:14

we start to build out everything, like

18:16

people who have interacted with the ads

18:18

and all those downstream things that after

18:20

the first prospecting, we're spending 100% of

18:22

our money on prospecting right now, we

18:24

had zero remarketing. which again is a failure,

18:26

but it's to reset the account. Because once

18:28

I start filling it up with people who

18:30

have started to interact with my ass for

18:32

the first time, now I can kind of

18:35

move into also who are the people that

18:37

have interacted with the ads or have been

18:39

to the websites and built my remark and

18:41

that kind of stuff. So I had to

18:43

reset the account, but in doing so I

18:45

just did the most powerful products. And what's

18:47

nice about this is here's a good example

18:49

of when you're thinking about Omni Channel, the

18:51

right audience is spending the right amount of

18:53

money on the right products. The before and

18:55

after change of this, this is probably the

18:57

best thing that I can share to everybody

18:59

that's not necessarily in this day to day

19:01

in the weeds. This is the first four

19:04

days before and after of this

19:06

test. So the first four days

19:08

of shutting off the advantage plus,

19:10

shutting off the not excluded audiences.

19:12

basically turning this from a kind

19:14

of warm to an all cold.

19:16

What you'll see here is the

19:19

blended cack went from a 91

19:21

down to a 60. The new

19:23

customer ROAs went from an average

19:26

of 1.2 to 1.35. My new customers

19:28

went from an average of 3.5

19:30

a day or 14 up to 18.

19:32

My new customer sales went from 876

19:34

up to 1370 and my profit per

19:36

new customer went from negative 257 to

19:39

negative 117 because we're heading in the

19:41

right direction. Our out TV is fantastic.

19:43

We have a 60% return customer rate

19:45

per month on a cohort. So

19:47

I can afford but now it's spinning

19:49

a lot less. The only area is

19:51

after change this meta which is the

19:53

only actual channel that we're marketing right

19:56

now, the only thing that actually happened

19:58

that was bad. Repeat customer sales. $4,500

20:00

down to 2992. This was off of

20:02

just an email campaign that happened the

20:04

day before. That's the only reason why

20:06

this thing kind of went down is

20:08

because we had a really good email

20:11

sale that blasted through a bunch of

20:13

return customers that didn't come next week.

20:15

But the new customers where we're actually

20:17

attributing them, just by excluding everybody and

20:19

going pure cold. Just having our CAC

20:21

go from 91 down to 60 in

20:23

first four days, what was that, like

20:26

a 40% decrease in our CAC just

20:28

by structurally changing the audiences that we're

20:30

going after? And this is happening on

20:32

every channel. Like for all clients, it's

20:34

amazing. And you know you're going to

20:36

get them again because this is 60,

20:38

what did you say, it's a 60%

20:41

return rate? Yeah, that's what's nice is

20:43

we've been taking this mantra for a

20:45

little while and we've kind of changed

20:47

this company around a little bit. We

20:49

did a whole bunch of changes in

20:51

meta, but if we look at like

20:54

the last 30 days as an example,

20:56

out of 393 orders, it's 62.3% return

20:58

customerate. This company, we acquired it and

21:00

it was an SEO only company for

21:02

years. So not big push from a

21:04

customer, so it just grew organically for

21:06

years. So that's why if I spent

21:09

a dollar on these people, I will

21:11

have them return all the return all

21:13

the time, all the time, That's why

21:15

we can afford to kind of lose

21:17

on that cack a bit, our actual

21:19

purchase. If we can get to a

21:21

zero cack, where it's break even, now

21:24

it's just how many free customers do

21:26

you want? That's at scale and that's

21:28

where we're moving towards. Right, right. And

21:30

the lifetime value of something like that

21:32

is like, oh yeah, if you have

21:34

$140, lifetime value for each one of

21:36

these customers. So if we went from

21:39

buying them at $240, Now down to

21:41

112, that's the cack changed of this

21:43

last kind of four days. But if

21:45

we look at our top line metrics,

21:47

because that's just attributed cack from only

21:49

spend that happened on meta, but if

21:52

we look at our lifetimeally as an

21:54

example, this is where that change took

21:56

place. We started the beef cheek campaign

21:58

here. This was on the day before.

22:00

That's what we started here. So we

22:02

look at the 25th. Again, it's not

22:04

going to be probably the best and

22:07

perfect. Now our profit's up 2100%.

22:09

So yeah, we basically, our sales are

22:11

up 353, our marketing costs are up

22:13

4-11, at least that profit at 506

22:15

because this is, again, really high cogs.

22:18

You can see the cogs are up

22:20

336. They're really low AOV, really low

22:22

margin product. But if I could have

22:24

a net profit of 506 and our

22:26

blended cack be 4534. bad day here,

22:29

but 50, 57, 58, 80, our return

22:31

customer sales every day is like 600

22:33

to a thousand dollars a day. Now we're

22:35

a little bit, sometimes over a thousand bucks.

22:37

Good. That should just be growing over time.

22:39

That will continually grow. If I

22:42

can wake up and have two thousand dollars

22:44

a day, that's over seven hundred thousand dollars

22:46

in basically sales a year that I don't

22:48

have to get out of bed for now.

22:50

Yeah. Because you've done your job on the

22:53

front end because you've figured out the

22:55

math. and we're also looking at lifetimely

22:57

which is another great i wouldn't even

22:59

say it's an app per se but

23:01

it's like a dashboard literally that shows

23:03

all this it's amazing yeah check this

23:05

out here this is where businesses need

23:07

to measure and stop measuring in app

23:10

row as my net profit on the

23:12

29th was 240 bucks because i had

23:14

a 1.4 new customer row as which

23:16

people are like, oh no I need

23:18

300% row as. Okay, that's the wrong

23:20

thing. And at 1.4 new customer row

23:22

as, I had five new customers, I lost

23:24

$24 on every one of those new customers

23:27

that day, but then made $1,300 in repeat

23:29

sales, which I don't have to try for

23:31

anymore. And then my contribution margin that day

23:33

was $240. So measuring what can I afford,

23:35

how many of them can I afford, how

23:37

many can I scale, we're still losing a

23:39

couple bucks per new customer for new customer

23:42

on top line, which is okay. That's what

23:44

we're moving towards is putting all of our

23:46

aspen towards new customers and then refining that.

23:48

But there comes a day where it's like

23:50

a dollar net profit per new customer, we

23:52

hit 100K and spend. We're just cranking this thing

23:54

up because that is just going to grow and

23:57

grow and grow. And I love this case study because

23:59

this isn't like... Oh my God, it's a

24:01

thousand percent increase in two days. It's

24:03

like this is a gradual process and

24:05

I think it's important for businesses to

24:08

look at this and say, the ad

24:10

platforms are not an ATM. You don't

24:12

put the card in and just say,

24:14

hey, how much money do I want

24:16

that day? It's an investment into the

24:18

future. And I think that's a hard

24:21

thing for people to wrap their head

24:23

around, especially if you've got new entrepreneurs

24:25

with new businesses that have never done

24:27

this before. They realize that marketing isn't

24:29

an investment. And it's something that you

24:31

have to, I guess I have to

24:34

quote custom here, because this is the

24:36

analogy that I'm getting at. Like everyone

24:38

stops planting corn. All they want is

24:40

the popcorn in the bag at the

24:42

grocery. store, eat the smart food, because

24:44

it's delicious. But nobody wants to plant

24:47

the corn. Like, this is what you

24:49

need to do. You need to plant

24:51

the corn along the way in order

24:53

to get the corn and then pop

24:55

the corn and turn it into popcorn.

24:57

The point is, that's what you're doing.

25:00

And a lot of businesses have a

25:02

challenge with this. When you're working with

25:04

a client and they don't quite see

25:06

it that way. We're talking, this is

25:08

one that they see it. They get

25:10

it. reputation alone, maybe it's because you're

25:13

John Moran and I'm like, you know,

25:15

I'll just do whatever this guy says

25:17

because I know he's freaking smart. But

25:19

to the listener that's out there that's

25:21

maybe struggling with this, what kind of

25:23

recommendations would you have to get a

25:25

client? Or, you know, if you are

25:28

in business, you have to convince your

25:30

CEO this, like what do you do

25:32

to take them down that path? First

25:34

thing I would say is, this is

25:36

going to be some pretty crazy talk,

25:38

but it's true. If you're a business

25:41

owner or a client, task all of

25:43

the people that are working with you

25:45

inside of your business or as a

25:47

vendor, when we're talking about marketing, for

25:49

example, only measure business health. Never measure

25:51

a report. If I was a business

25:54

owner and I had a vendor saying,

25:56

here's my report on my page channel,

25:58

I would throw to it. I would, it's

26:00

useless. Because what I would say

26:02

is if the agencies that are

26:04

involved, if they're separate or an

26:07

agency that is holistic, if they

26:09

are not being measured by your

26:11

business, performance, your business, health, nothing

26:13

else matters. The company that Bullestick

26:15

Central Company, this is a company that

26:17

was acquired last year. And you can

26:19

see, I'm screen sharing right now, the

26:22

back end of the Shopify. And in

26:24

the last 365 days, I think it

26:26

was actually purchased in March, so give

26:28

or take here a few weeks off.

26:30

But we have a 44% business growth,

26:32

a total order of 34% of 34%,

26:34

the average order of 34%, the average

26:36

order value went up 9%, and our

26:38

return customer rate is still a 41,

26:40

it's only down six. But it means

26:42

that we actually have more new customers,

26:45

but they are not wavering. with

26:47

a 44% business growth and a

26:49

158% increase in subscriptions. Great, you

26:51

win. Keep going, good job. Yippy

26:54

Skippy. Do we lose any money? No,

26:56

we're actually slightly more profitable

26:58

during this 44% year-over-year scale.

27:00

All right, I'll see you

27:02

next year. That's how this

27:04

should work. Or in a

27:06

large client, this is a client

27:08

that is scaled massively. We're looking

27:10

at North Beam here if you're

27:13

not on the YouTube channel. This

27:15

is a company that scaled massively

27:17

from March 1st 2023 to March

27:19

1st 2024 and inside of North

27:21

Beam which is we're using as a

27:23

total metric tool just looking at all

27:25

cash in all cash out top line

27:27

business health what I only measure and

27:29

I'll share this to the people that are

27:31

not seeing in the screen the only

27:34

thing that I measure is total spend

27:36

across all channels all year and total

27:38

top line growth regardless of channel

27:40

all year. What this means is that if

27:42

I spend $142 $142 in paid media over

27:45

to a hundred forty two percent sorry if

27:47

i spent a hundred forty two percent more

27:49

in paid media in one year i should

27:51

see something close that in my total revenue

27:53

and it's up a hundred and twenty nine

27:56

point three percent so that means we

27:58

actually put about twenty million in

28:00

ad spend last year and made about

28:02

80 million more in revenue because that

28:04

number is 43 million spend which is

28:07

up a hundred forty two percent and

28:09

a hundred fifty three million which is

28:11

up a hundred thirty percent good so

28:13

you're scaling well and then what is

28:16

my media efficiency ratio my companies row

28:18

as if you want to use it

28:20

that but it's my companies cash in

28:23

cash out for that scale of 20

28:25

million or actually 25 million the media

28:27

efficiency ratio only went down 5.4% So

28:29

what is 5.4% of a 3.5? What

28:32

is it? I don't know. But basically,

28:34

yeah, it was like went from 3.6

28:36

down to 3.5. Yeah, 3.5. So my

28:39

business health stayed the same during the

28:41

past. That was pretty good. That was

28:43

quick math right there. Okay, I'm kind

28:46

of winging it, so I'm getting pretty

28:48

close. So it's about 60 cents. Good.

28:50

what individual channels measure and grew and

28:52

doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't

28:55

matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

28:57

That's a case in point right there

28:59

of this whole thing coming together at

29:02

a massive scale. Yeah. And it's just

29:04

a shift in mindset. Exactly. Because if

29:06

Google is just going up to brand,

29:08

they couldn't scale. That's pretty much it.

29:11

There were all kinds of levers that

29:13

you had to press in that Big

29:15

X that we just showed in the

29:18

screen share. Yeah, that's a year's worth

29:20

of daily work and grinding and really

29:22

doing it. But as an agency or

29:25

as an owner, you should only be

29:27

measuring your business. That's it. Because if

29:29

your business is failing, no reports are

29:31

going to tell you you're crazy. Yeah,

29:34

channel reports toss them in the trash.

29:36

Right. I mean, think about it. Really.

29:38

Channel reports don't matter if your business

29:41

is failing. Who's going to pat themselves

29:43

on the back? Well, the agency might.

29:45

We see that all the time. Your

29:47

internal team, let's not just bash agencies

29:50

here. I mean, there are internal teams

29:52

where, oh yeah, and you know this,

29:54

it's like you work with internal team.

29:57

that hit maybe like you know are

29:59

doing the Facebook side of the equation

30:01

and you're doing the Google side we

30:03

deal with this all the time is

30:06

like you have to be able to

30:08

navigate through it that's more challenging that

30:10

way because they're also trying to keep

30:13

their jobs they're trying to maintain favoritism

30:15

with the boss that I'm doing my

30:17

work and I'm doing my job and

30:20

I'm substantiating my existence but even if

30:22

the business is going down the boss

30:24

is the one that's catching hell from

30:26

the CEO from the CEO all shit

30:29

rolls downhill Everyone just needs to get

30:31

on the same boat, really. That's

30:33

the thing is it forces internal

30:35

team members, it forces one agency,

30:37

it forces all of the agencies,

30:39

everyone has to communicate and work

30:41

together. The bad agencies would be like,

30:43

well we did our job, but then

30:45

Google took all of the credit. Everyone

30:48

has to communicate and work together. The

30:50

bad agencies would be like, well, we

30:52

did our job, but then Google took

30:54

all the credit. Then those are not people

30:56

that could work together. If you work

30:58

together, it loses. Yeah, that's it. It's true.

31:00

Well, this has been amazing. And I

31:02

know we've talked our way through

31:04

probably two episodes here, so this

31:06

will be a two-parter. But, you

31:08

know, obviously, we'll have you on

31:10

many, many, many more times here,

31:13

professional traffic, because it is such

31:15

a trip. And this is the reason,

31:17

like, this conversation is the conversation

31:19

I've been wanting to have on

31:21

this show for... probably five years

31:23

so and in large part because

31:25

now we are together and working

31:27

with you has been a fucking

31:29

dream and my team is so

31:31

excited they're like beyond excited and it's

31:33

because of this it's not just because oh

31:35

it's like John Moran's final in our team

31:37

it's like this type of thing that we

31:40

just talked about here is next level this

31:42

is where our space is going this is

31:44

where we see collectively, you and I, as

31:46

well as, you know, everyone on the leadership

31:49

team, which you'll have the chance to meet

31:51

out in Denver, like in a week or

31:53

so, which is going to be a lot

31:55

of fun. It's like, this is our mission

31:58

to do this, like, this feels good. when

32:00

you can actually sit and grow a

32:02

business and help them achieve their goals,

32:04

and especially if it's a purpose-driven business

32:06

where they're really doing good stuff. There's

32:08

nothing better when we first met about

32:10

this whole idea. We just want to

32:12

grow businesses. I'm like, that's all we

32:14

want to do. I'm like, that's all

32:16

we want to do. I don't know

32:18

why that's what we want to do,

32:20

but that's what we want to do.

32:22

And it's the most fun thing in

32:25

the world. It's not just because Cossums

32:27

away, down in Argentina, I think he's

32:29

just going down there to catch a

32:31

tan. He's not like working or anything.

32:33

He's got a year-round tan, so I

32:35

don't know if he's doing down there,

32:37

so. He's going to cut his hair.

32:39

That's when he's going to do it.

32:41

He's going to cut his hair. That's

32:43

when he's going to do it. He's

32:45

going to do it. Oh my God.

32:47

Well, excellent. This has been great. And

32:49

if you have been great. And if

32:51

you have not gone over to gone

32:53

over to our gone over to our.

32:55

telegram channel. We're going to try and

32:58

coerce John to join it. But perpetual

33:00

traffic.com,/telegram. I'm looking at telegram right now.

33:02

There's all kinds of stuff going on

33:04

here, which is really cool. And so

33:06

our way of keeping in touch with

33:08

you, the perpetual traffic listener, and getting

33:10

real-time feedback, creating a community. We often

33:12

talk about creating a community as a

33:14

way to build a business. And all

33:16

right, we're eating our own dog food

33:18

here to a certain degree, but it's

33:20

also. in there talking about commenting on

33:22

things that we discuss here on the

33:24

show and getting sort of the behind

33:26

the scenes stuff on top of that.

33:28

So definitely check out our telegram and

33:31

make sure that you do, if you

33:33

were not, and maybe you were in

33:35

the car listening, go back and watch

33:37

this episode, probably two episodes together. We're

33:39

gonna do a two-parter here on our

33:41

YouTube, which is perpetual traffic.com/YouTube. And of

33:43

course. all the resources and show notes

33:45

for the entire show are going to

33:47

be over at perpetual traffic.com. Make sure

33:49

that you follow me over on LinkedIn.

33:51

and Kasam on his socials will give

33:53

him a shout out at Kasam Islam

33:55

on socials. I just haven't even asked

33:57

you. Like every once in a while,

33:59

like you comment on LinkedIn and there's

34:01

like 10,000 comments. Where are you doing

34:04

a social thing right now? We haven't

34:06

talked about this much. Usually on LinkedIn,

34:08

my posts, I really try to make

34:10

them extremely. purpose-driven and impactful and actionable.

34:12

So a lot of times it'll take

34:14

a few weeks worth of development of

34:16

something and then I'll share it on

34:18

LinkedIn. I don't like the thing where

34:20

it's like comment like if you hate

34:22

Google ads on Monday. I just try

34:24

to deliver strategic actual items for people

34:26

to consume. I'm not very social on

34:28

social media. I only have a LinkedIn.

34:30

That's it. I don't even know a

34:32

personal meta account. But yeah, LinkedIn is

34:34

great. I love that about you. Yeah,

34:37

I like it. It's easier. I'm kind

34:39

of all business all the time. Yeah,

34:41

I love LinkedIn. Yeah, I think it's

34:43

totally underutilized. And it's also from a

34:45

business perspective, it's. chances are it's probably

34:47

where our ideal customer hangs out so

34:49

we try and narrow our focus there.

34:51

We've talked about that many many times

34:53

here on the show so I definitely

34:55

check out John when and if we'll

34:57

try and get him to post more

34:59

but John does what John does so

35:01

like I said super psyched to have

35:03

you on the show here today go

35:05

over to perpetual traffic.com we're going to

35:07

leave a lot of resources there as

35:10

we do for every show we do

35:12

here and join that telegram channel. learn

35:14

a little bit more about you and

35:16

give some feedback on maybe future shows.

35:18

So I hope you enjoyed this week's

35:20

episode. Make sure that you do watch

35:22

this over on our YouTube channel perpetualtraffic.com/YouTube

35:24

if you're listening to it. And he

35:26

said, you know, they're trying to explain

35:28

it here, but I didn't really get

35:30

it all the way. The YouTube channel

35:32

will show you exactly through screen shares,

35:34

exactly what John and I are discussing.

35:36

But even if you did listen to

35:38

it. Hopefully you enjoyed it and you're

35:40

now thinking differently about these metrics. And

35:43

these are metrics that really do matter

35:45

in today's marketing. landscape. And this is

35:47

a this is a

35:49

theme that we're

35:51

going to continue to

35:53

come back to

35:55

in with examples of how examples

35:57

of how we're

35:59

doing it inside the Tier

36:01

obviously using the

36:03

Tier 11 data suite,

36:05

which was just

36:07

sort of on the

36:09

leading edge at

36:11

the time of this

36:13

original recording. Now

36:15

it's incorporated into everything that we do here

36:17

at Tier 11 and something that you

36:19

should look at at. as far as NCAC, determining

36:22

how to scale and grow your

36:24

business, not using ROAS, but using

36:26

new customer acquisition acquisition cost as your North Star

36:28

moving forward. like this So if you

36:30

liked this week's episode, make sure

36:32

you leave us a rating and

36:34

review. We want to get this

36:36

out to as many marketers as

36:38

possible, just like yourself. Leaving a

36:40

rating and a review will certainly

36:42

help us do that and change

36:44

the perception on change the perception how we're

36:46

really leading the charge here on

36:48

new metrics that really do matter,

36:50

that scale and grow businesses in

36:52

2025 and beyond. So on behalf

36:54

of my awesome and and amazing co-host Lauren

36:56

E. until next show, see

36:58

see ya.