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1:01

confidence. Please join and subscribe wherever you

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get your podcastsasts of

1:06

life all the time. And normally, they

1:08

can run experiments. If I hypothesize, life

1:11

can live in bleach. Well, I can get

1:13

bleach and see if life lives in it.

1:15

But what if the weird thing about

1:17

the life they find is that it

1:20

lives for millions of years? Time?

1:22

I don't have any control over

1:24

that. I can literally do

1:26

nothing with time. This

1:28

week on Unexplainable, intra-terrestrials,

1:30

aliens on Earth, deep

1:33

beneath the sea floor.

1:35

Follow Unexplainable for new

1:37

episodes every Wednesday. If you

1:39

want to know what you look

1:41

like when you were 17 and

1:43

you got caught masturbating, That is

1:46

literally the facial expression of these

1:48

people. Hi everyone, this is

1:50

pivot from New York magazine,

1:52

the Vox Media Podcast Network,

1:54

I'm Kara Swisher. And Kara, if

1:57

you're texting and you see the emoji

1:59

of... a makers in ginger, a

2:01

guy dancing, an Olympic. I am

2:03

in the chat. That means I

2:05

am in the chat. Oh my

2:07

God. I am here. I can't

2:09

believe this happened like right after

2:11

we taped the last show. right

2:13

into a fallout from signal gate.

2:15

Some people are calling it whiskey

2:17

leaks. You like whiskey leaks? Whiskey

2:19

leaks? Just before we get into

2:21

the serious stuff, I think people

2:24

want to hear more about me.

2:26

I'm a little slow today. So

2:28

I think, as you know, for

2:30

the first time in my life,

2:32

I had something resembling a non-

2:34

outstanding physical where he said, you're

2:36

borderline hypertensive. I didn't tell you

2:38

this. Staten time. Yeah, 140 over

2:40

80 and I'm like, what? Take

2:42

it again. I made him take

2:44

it like eight times. I'm like,

2:46

sorry, we're not doing a nighttime.

2:48

And so immediately. had my urine,

2:50

my blood, drawn, my fecal matter,

2:52

like everything, uploaded to chat, GPT,

2:54

and they all come back with

2:56

the same fucking thing, drink less,

2:58

and when they started asking me

3:00

questions. So anyways, I have- What's

3:02

happening? What's happening? What are we

3:04

going to do? We're going to

3:06

dryout clinic with you? What's fun

3:09

thing can we do? Dryout clinics

3:11

as a sober person. damage or

3:13

inability to process or ability to

3:15

process alcohol 25 is dwarfs by

3:17

the risk of social isolation and

3:19

anxiety. I understand you're looking for...

3:21

Anyways, yeah well no it makes

3:23

sense for me to drink less.

3:25

Tell it to Pete Higgs Seth,

3:27

whiskey links, the head of whiskey

3:29

links. My 50-old liver can process

3:31

the same way. Anyway so I

3:33

took my blood pressure over the

3:35

weekend. I'm taking it a while,

3:37

I was becoming obsessed with it.

3:39

It's 127 over 72. It's dropped

3:41

dramatically. And I'm like, what's mistaken?

3:43

I kept taking it. No, it's

3:45

not. It's perfectly healthy. You're not

3:47

going to ask my blood pressure.

3:49

I just had to take it.

3:51

Do you want to know? What's

3:54

your blood pressure? Sure. 106 over

3:56

68. I'm like a corpse. Yeah,

3:58

I think that means you're a

4:00

vampire. Anyway, so I'm a corpse.

4:02

I'm a corpse. So I'm trying

4:04

to figure out what's gone on

4:06

and I figured out that I'm

4:08

drinking dramatically less because she'll turn

4:10

firehouse burned down. I was going

4:12

there once or twice a week.

4:14

What? That hotel in London and

4:16

your family? You didn't know that?

4:18

No, I went there to see

4:20

it. Oh my God, my Mecca,

4:22

my cathedral. Oh my God. I

4:24

stay there. Geopolitical disasters are going

4:26

to have to hold on for

4:28

a minute. So I go there,

4:30

I'm never able to get in

4:32

there. It's total face control, the

4:34

coolest people in London, the coolest

4:37

room, greatest bartenders, greatest vibe. The

4:39

door woman ends up, ends up,

4:41

she has a podcast. called, I

4:43

forget what it's called, oh shit,

4:45

I'll find out, really talented young

4:47

creative woman and she came up

4:49

to me and said, hi, love

4:51

your podcast, would you willing have

4:53

lunch, someday, I said sure we

4:55

had lunch, the end of the

4:57

lunch, she goes, here's my WhatsApp

4:59

number, if you ever want to

5:01

come by, here it is, if

5:03

you ever want to come by,

5:05

here it is. If you ever

5:07

want to come by, here it

5:09

is. If you ever want to

5:11

come by, if you ever want

5:13

to come by, if you want

5:15

to come by, if you want

5:17

to, if you want to, if

5:19

you want to come. If you

5:22

want to come. If you want

5:24

to come. If you want to

5:26

come. And the world clearly decided

5:28

that the universe was out of

5:30

order with me having access to

5:32

this level of hot cool people

5:34

just regularly. The place fucking burned

5:36

down. What? That's a beautiful old

5:38

building. No one was hurt. No

5:40

one was hurt, but it's gone.

5:42

It's out of commission for three

5:44

years. Oh my God. Well, it's

5:46

got a janky inside if you

5:48

stay there. It's like a really

5:50

old hotel. It's made out of

5:52

the firehouse, but it's all these

5:54

twists and turns. It does feel...

5:56

It's a total Andre Bala special.

5:58

It's a shitty hotel with decent

6:00

service and hot people and amazing

6:02

cool vibes, so you can charge

6:04

$1 $1, $100. met the mother

6:07

of my children at a Raleigh

6:09

hotel controlled by Andre Bela. And

6:11

my son's middle name is now

6:13

Raleigh. So what are you doing

6:15

with your health? Let's move away

6:17

from children. So what I'm doing

6:19

with my health is the children

6:21

firehouses burn down. And I figured

6:23

out that I think somewhere between,

6:25

I'm drinking somewhere between six and

6:27

eight, fewer drinks a week, because

6:29

children burn down. Anyway, so I

6:31

need to find a new place.

6:33

So last night, there's a bunch

6:35

of new contenders. Last night and

6:37

I'm checking them all out. Last

6:39

night I went to this new

6:41

place called Soho Muse. which is

6:43

a Soho house, but Soho house

6:45

has figured out they let in

6:47

too many people, so now they

6:50

have, now they have a one

6:52

that you can't get into. That

6:54

you have to have, there's always

6:56

another room, there's always another room,

6:58

that you're not in, that you're

7:00

not in. So I found somebody

7:02

who knows somebody, who knows somebody,

7:04

who knows somebody, who knows somebody,

7:06

who knows somebody, went there, Hugging,

7:08

hugging and watching. As Winston Churchill

7:10

said, I've gotten more out of

7:12

alcohol than it's gotten out of

7:14

me. I would not have kids

7:16

and I'd likely still be a

7:18

virgin and I'd have very few

7:20

good friends if it wasn't for

7:22

alcohol. Let's get back, listen, Pete

7:24

Hexeth of this podcast. National Security

7:26

breaches. Let's go back, you know,

7:28

whiskey leaks, let's go to whiskey

7:30

leaks. The Trump administration is denying

7:32

and downplaying the wrongdoing, even though

7:35

the next day Jeff, Jeff, Jeffrey

7:37

Goldberg, the editor in the editor

7:39

in chief. of course, released the

7:41

text from the signaled group that

7:43

he was mistakenly added to. This

7:45

is so unreal what happened here.

7:47

The newly released message show defense

7:49

secretary Pete Higgs says sharing a

7:51

timeline of the Yemen attack and

7:53

a description of the aircraft involved,

7:55

which is classified Pete, sorry it

7:57

is, they're pretending it's not, but

7:59

it is. The latest White House

8:01

strategy insisting these were not actual

8:03

war plans, which they were, and

8:05

as Pete Higgs told reporters on

8:07

Wednesday, he knew exactly what he

8:09

was doing. Let's... No locations, no

8:11

routes, no flight paths, no sources,

8:13

no methods, no classified information. You

8:15

know who sees war plans? I

8:17

see them. Every single day. I

8:20

looked at them this morning. I

8:22

looked at attack plans this morning.

8:24

What an idiot. Just what? Meanwhile,

8:26

national security officials were on Capitol

8:28

Hill getting questioned about the signal

8:30

leak and hearings becoming contentious. Democratic

8:32

congressman Jim Himes noted the worst

8:34

case scenario of the whole incident

8:36

at one of these hearings. Let's

8:38

listen. Everyone here knows that the

8:40

Russians or the Chinese could have

8:42

gotten all of that information. and

8:44

they could have passed it on

8:46

to the Huttis who easily could

8:48

have repositioned weapons and altered their

8:50

plans to knock down planes or

8:52

sink ships. I think that it's

8:54

by the awesome grace of God

8:56

that we are not mourning dead

8:58

pilots right now. Among other things,

9:00

where were they who was listening?

9:02

what devices they aren't. So talk

9:05

about what your initial thoughts and

9:07

hearing the story and what you

9:09

think about the White House strategy

9:11

here, arguing about semantics of what

9:13

were plans and classified is and

9:15

making Jeffrey Goldberg the enemy. And

9:17

he keeps just dropping the receipts

9:19

every five minutes and they're the

9:21

enemy. And he keeps just dropping

9:23

the receipts every five minutes and

9:25

they're caught out lying. Are they

9:27

making things worse for themselves by

9:29

not owning up to it and

9:31

taking responsibility? Goldberg got out of

9:33

the chat. Oh my God, stop

9:35

with the Elon solution. He doesn't

9:37

know anything about this. Talk a

9:39

little bit about this. And then

9:41

we'll get to the repercussions, if

9:43

there are any. Well, these are

9:45

some of our most senior and

9:48

most impactful and most important people

9:50

in government. And I think you

9:52

have to take them at their

9:54

words. So let's just look at

9:56

a few of their past quotes.

9:58

Any security professional military government or

10:00

otherwise would be fired on the

10:02

spot for this type of conduct

10:04

and criminally prosecuted for being so

10:06

reckless with this kind of information.

10:08

That's that's Secretary Hexeth referring to

10:10

Hillary Clinton's emails being on a

10:12

server more from Secretary Hexeth. How

10:14

damaging is it to your ability?

10:16

to recruit or build allies with

10:18

others when they are worried that

10:20

our leaders may be exposing them

10:22

because of their gross negligence or

10:24

their recklessness in handling information. Again,

10:26

that was Secretary Hagsath when they

10:28

found emails on a server that

10:30

he decided were classified. Let's keep

10:33

going. The fact that she wouldn't

10:35

be held accountable for this, I

10:37

think, blows the mind of anyone

10:39

who's held our nation's secrets dear,

10:41

Hexeth added back in 2016, and

10:43

who's had top secret clearance, like

10:45

I have, and others who know

10:47

that even one hicup causes a

10:49

problem. What about Secretary Rubio? Nobody

10:51

is above the law. Not even

10:53

Hillary Clinton, Rubio said at Fox,

10:55

even though she thinks she is.

10:57

Well, let's talk about CI director

10:59

John Radcliffe. Mishandling classified information is

11:01

still a violation of the Espionage

11:03

Act. That's a criminal charge so

11:05

serious that it can bring the

11:07

death penalty." Close quote. When you

11:09

have the Clinton emails on top

11:11

of the fact that the sitting

11:13

president of the United States admitted

11:15

he had documents in his garage.

11:18

Director Waltz, or National Security Advisor

11:20

Waltz told CNN, but they didn't

11:22

prosecute. They didn't go after these

11:24

folks, exasperated. Exasperated. Any unauthorized release

11:26

of classified information is a violation

11:28

of the law and will be

11:30

treated as such said direct director

11:32

of national intelligence Tulsi Gabbard and

11:34

my favorite quote on the actual

11:36

My name for her is cruella

11:38

to text, but go ahead and

11:40

my favorite quote is actually from

11:42

the text message chain. We are

11:44

currently clean on Opsek from Secretary

11:46

Hagsath, meaning we are clear. You

11:48

can trust that the security protocols

11:50

are in place. And this reflects

11:52

a couple things. One, this administration,

11:54

as led by Donald Trump, President

11:56

Trump, believe that the government of

11:58

the United States, which is the

12:01

most impressive organist in history. Ask

12:03

yourself for all the shit posting

12:05

all of us do about the

12:07

US government. Who's provided more rights

12:09

and more prosperity at a lower

12:11

cost at taxes this low? Best

12:13

product for lowest price brought to

12:15

you by the US government. Most

12:17

impressive organization in the world. And

12:19

these folks have decided that any

12:21

protocols, no matter how established or

12:23

how important, they're bigger than. that

12:25

they just, they don't need to

12:27

pay attention to this stupid shit

12:29

that people before them were doing.

12:31

It's a, it's the ultimate Dunning-Kruger

12:33

effect. And then the last thing

12:35

I'll say before I get your comments

12:38

is when someone is pulled over and

12:40

convicted for a DUI, on average, on

12:42

average, they have driven drunk 80 times

12:45

previous to that. So the question isn't

12:47

what happened here because fortunately Jeff Goldberg

12:49

understands security protocols. He didn't release the

12:52

information until after the attacks had happened

12:54

when he realized he was privy errantly

12:56

to classified information. He voluntarily exited the

12:59

chat. He understands security protocols. I mean

13:01

make him fucking defense secretary. Right. He

13:03

knows more about national security than all

13:05

of these people put together. The scariest

13:08

question is. We found out they got

13:10

a DUI here. What are the other

13:12

79 times that secure information has been

13:15

leaked? to bad actors who aren't going

13:17

to follow security protocols. Maybe work for

13:19

the CCP or the GRU. When you

13:22

put peewy little leaguer, incompetent ass clowns

13:24

in positions of this importance, there are

13:26

going to be unforced errors. But the

13:29

problem is we don't see 79 of

13:31

the 80 unforced errors. 100%. And you

13:33

know what's incredible is, of course Trump

13:36

uses his, a couple things. One. They're

13:38

morons. Let's just be clear. They're also

13:40

liars. They're liars about what they're morons

13:43

and liars, and then they're hypocrites because

13:45

of what those things you just read.

13:47

literally were making a big case on

13:50

a much less egregious violation, right? So

13:52

that's one. Two, who knows what phones

13:54

they were on? Were they on person?

13:57

They were not using, you know, my

13:59

ex-wife worked in the government. I saw

14:01

the phone she had. She didn't like

14:04

it, but she used it because it

14:06

was secure, right? She couldn't use her

14:08

iPhone. You can't side-load signal on these

14:11

things. And by the way, the signal

14:13

CEO, CEO. wrote me, she's like, I

14:15

cannot fucking believe this shit, like this

14:17

is crazy that they were using our

14:20

stuff. Now, journalists use it to talk

14:22

to sources, lots of people use it

14:24

to be, to have encrypted communications, but

14:27

these are not impenetrable systems. By the

14:29

way, it's a commercial app. It is

14:31

not to, it shouldn't be, they were

14:34

definitely doing them on personal phones, and

14:36

they also were definitely doing them from

14:38

places. You don't know what network they

14:41

were on. They were definitely not in

14:43

skiffs doing this, which is these protected

14:45

little tents that they make. They weren't

14:48

on protected communications, and they were talking

14:50

about war plans. Like whatever word you

14:52

want to use, it's information that should

14:55

not be on a commercial app. The

14:57

second thing is the way they put

14:59

Jeffrey Goldberg, I think what happened is

15:02

there was someone with his initials that

15:04

they brought in, because that's happened to

15:06

me with several tech companies. I've been

15:09

brought into emails at Facebook by Cheryl

15:11

Sandberg one time, I think. I've been

15:13

brought into seeing the earnings of a

15:16

tech company before they were released to

15:18

the public once because someone with my

15:20

name was similar to. to someone at

15:23

the company and I just got emailed.

15:25

I got into the email chain. It

15:27

happens. People do that. But the fact

15:29

that they're doing this not on a

15:32

secure line and doing this with such

15:34

cavalierness was just so moronic and then

15:36

to lie about it afterwards and then

15:39

get caught again. It's the second time

15:41

when he releases what was there. I

15:43

just I don't think anyone will get

15:46

fired because the people in charge of

15:48

the justice department will not do their

15:50

jobs because they're very busy. protecting Elon

15:53

Musk and no one's going to get.

15:55

So it may be Mike Walls will

15:57

get because he also apparently his Venmo

16:00

is open too. Like it's just they're

16:02

being sued by the government watchdog group

16:04

for using signal to discuss military plans

16:07

by the way and you can't make

16:09

this up Trump's not so favorite judge

16:11

the one overseeing the Venezuelan deportation cake

16:14

got assigned to the signal case. But

16:16

is there any, it looks like Trump

16:18

is just going to defend his people

16:21

and maybe throw one over. But is

16:23

there any recourse here? Do you see

16:25

anything? at all. What do you make

16:28

of their response? Like from a, just

16:30

from a marketing point of view, trying

16:32

to get this, you know, this move

16:35

on. Everyone was at the right after,

16:37

let's move on. Let's move on. Let's

16:39

move on. Let's move on. That was

16:42

the sort of the message from all

16:44

Republicans. Now there seems to be some

16:46

cracks in it because it's so serious

16:48

what they did here. This is a

16:51

fuck-up. There's just no getting around. This

16:53

is unacceptable. That should have been there.

16:55

Three words, this is unacceptable. Two, the

16:58

top guy or gal needs to take

17:00

responsibility. The person, either the defense secretary,

17:02

someone needs to say, I take responsibility.

17:05

And then the third thing is, and

17:07

this is the hard part, you need

17:09

to over-correct. When Tylenol, when it was

17:12

found out that some crazy person had

17:14

put cyanide and Tylenol capsules and Tylen,

17:16

nationally at huge cost to them to

17:19

restore trust. They're doing none of these

17:21

things because President Trump comes from the

17:23

Roy Cohn-Zite guys have never, never acknowledged

17:26

that you're wrong and just continue to

17:28

lie. And if you lie long enough,

17:30

you in fact will, you know, people

17:33

will start to believe you. But the

17:35

real damage here is that if you

17:37

think about... Within the greatest organization in

17:40

history, the US government is arguably the

17:42

most successful organization in history, the most

17:44

impressive, and that is the US. military.

17:47

It has turned back fascism, it has

17:49

turned back, turned repelled armies out of

17:51

Gulf nations in days because of our

17:54

ability to deliver violence anywhere in the

17:56

world really effectively, efficiently, and because people

17:58

are willing to put their lives on

18:00

the line. And when you can't trust

18:03

the people at the highest levels that

18:05

they are taking, when you're flying an

18:07

aircraft, you're trusting some guy from Omaha

18:10

or some gal from Nebraska that she

18:12

is obsessing over every fucking part on

18:14

that plane. before you have to skirt

18:17

along the atmosphere at two times the

18:19

speed of sound avoiding surface to air

18:21

missiles and then trust that the agents

18:24

on the ground risking their lives would

18:26

never have anyone not follow protocols and

18:28

might unmask them. So what does this

18:31

do to the effectiveness, the morale, the

18:33

willingness to join? these security forces. And

18:35

also, there's stuff around the phone and

18:38

the app. It's a misdirect. I've had

18:40

some, I've had some interaction with our

18:42

security apparatus. When you go into a

18:45

building of the NSA or the CIA,

18:47

you can't even bring a phone in.

18:49

You know, I'm not talking about high-level

18:52

classified information. No, they make you put

18:54

them in a box. They make you

18:56

put one of those lead box or

18:59

whatever. And then this conversation was why

19:01

skiffs were invented. Because the idea is

19:03

you have a secure room that knowing

19:06

how are our allies going to share

19:08

their sensitive information with this clown car?

19:10

So the damage here We don't know.

19:12

The damage here is like an iceberg.

19:15

The majority of it is below the

19:17

surface. We will never know about it

19:19

until there are military operations that fail.

19:22

They will blame it on somebody else.

19:24

But this is an enormous... The astonishing

19:26

reaction of, well, nothing happened. The operation

19:29

was a success. I'm like... I don't

19:31

know. We don't know. Who knows? I

19:33

don't trust any of you people to

19:36

tell the truth on anything. And then

19:38

misdirecting it towards Goldberg. Goldberg. Two things.

19:40

Let me make two points. One, you're

19:43

a bunch of morons. Again, lying morons.

19:45

Two, Goldberg was doing. the right thing

19:47

here and he's a fucking badass for

19:50

doing all, he did everything right, ethically,

19:52

he did. And then when they challenged

19:54

him about whether it was true, he

19:57

released, he didn't release the text initially,

19:59

but then he's like, fuck you, I'm

20:01

going to release the text. The third

20:04

thing is, let me just tell you.

20:06

Do you know who's also a quiet

20:08

hero here? Lorraine Powell Jobs, owner of

20:11

the Atlantic, is letting this keep going,

20:13

right? Because there's a lot of corporate

20:15

people who are pulling in their horns

20:18

for Trump, whether it's Disney paying that

20:20

settlement with George Stepanopoulos or Paramount, considering

20:22

it around... Paul Weiss, law firms, bending

20:24

the knee. Buck Paul Weiss. Like all

20:27

these people are doing this, and Lorraine

20:29

Powell Jobs is running the Atlantic, if

20:31

they're going to come at Jeff Goldberg

20:34

over... that Nazi piece he wrote about

20:36

Trump. You remember, Jeffrey did that story,

20:38

that infuriated the Trump people. Let me

20:41

just tell you, if you look, I

20:43

was just thinking who's the Catherine grandma,

20:45

this era, people like her, that are

20:48

not backing the fuck down. And there's

20:50

a billionaire, you want to, not all

20:52

billionaires are bad, she's a billionaire, she's,

20:55

she's got a lot of bravery to

20:57

put up with this stuff and to

20:59

be able to take the pressure. When

21:02

I think of Jeff Bezos, Margzuckerberg and

21:04

the rest of them and Musk sitting

21:06

and sort of prostrate himself to Trump

21:09

and what she just did, just a,

21:11

again, just a real differential. And this

21:13

puts people in danger. And I think

21:16

it's again a good topic for Democrats

21:18

to attack on. You're incompetent and your

21:20

liars over and over again. And then

21:23

the other excuse they're using on Fox

21:25

News, which are also complicit in trying

21:27

to defend this after attacking Hillary Hillary

21:30

Clinton. relentlessly for years over something that

21:32

was much less serious by a factor

21:34

of 10. Do you remember when you

21:36

accidentally added a random person to our

21:39

pivot text chain? Do you remember that?

21:41

I don't. You did. You added some

21:43

guy and he's like, hey, I'm here.

21:46

Okay, if Scott does that, that was

21:48

fucking enormous. enough but the media on

21:50

the on the right is saying well

21:53

everyone knows about that everyone's done that

21:55

I literally like that's so me isn't

21:57

it what's the Jesse Waters you're a

22:00

moron you're a fucking moron but it

22:02

you don't need to be a national

22:04

security advisor to know what happened here

22:07

and that is when I establish an

22:09

ongoing relationship with a male prostitute I

22:11

changed the name and the number or

22:14

I changed the name to Kara Swisher

22:16

it throws the people in my life

22:18

off the scent so it's clear It's

22:21

so obvious what it is happening here,

22:23

walls is fucking Jeffrey Goldberg. That's, it's

22:25

obvious what's going on here. And he

22:28

had the wrong name purposely on the

22:30

wrong number to throw the folks in

22:32

his life off. Oh, interesting. Little geopolitical

22:35

humor to lighten the blue. I think

22:37

it was someone with a JG on

22:39

the staff that he thought he was

22:42

adding, someone else. And Tolcy Gabber, refusing

22:44

to acknowledge it was her. And Senator

22:46

Warren's like. So T.G. isn't you, isn't

22:49

you? And she's like, well, no, well,

22:51

I, it's under review. And he's like,

22:53

what does that have to do anything?

22:55

And then, and then she says, there

22:58

was no classified information. And he was

23:00

like, well, then share it if it

23:02

wasn't classified. She looks like I think

23:05

he was good. Warner was good. Oh

23:07

my God. She literally, so was awesome.

23:09

They all had the same attitude, what

23:12

in the actual fuck? That was the

23:14

tone. What in the actual fuck? The

23:16

only person who's conduct himself kind of

23:19

like better than all of them is

23:21

Trump, because he's like, yeah, I think

23:23

it looks like they fucked up. But

23:26

then he, of course, defends them by

23:28

attacking the reporter. I love watching these

23:30

hearings. If you want to know. what

23:33

you look like. If you look at

23:35

these people, if you want to know

23:37

what you look like when you were

23:40

17 and you got caught masturbating, that

23:42

is literally the facial expression of these

23:44

people. That never happened to me. Yeah.

23:47

Literally the facial expression. Do you think

23:49

someone's going to pay? No, walls maybe.

23:51

Let's take a bit. Which one? Oh,

23:54

I actually do. One of them is

23:56

going to go down. Tag Seth or

23:58

Wall. Not Hag Seth. He seems to

24:01

like Head Seth, despite the fact that

24:03

it looked like he was drunk texting.

24:05

That's what it seemed like to me.

24:07

I think it's, oh my gosh. I

24:10

think look I don't think Trump cares

24:12

about national security. I don't know. I

24:14

don't think he cares that he's putting

24:17

documents in his bathroom That he's putting

24:19

Trump that he's putting warriors in harm's

24:21

way. I really don't think I really

24:24

don't think he cares What I do

24:26

think he cares about is I think

24:28

this is very embarrassing for him. It

24:31

makes them look incompetent. There's going to

24:33

be a blood offering. It's a toss

24:35

up between I think it's got to

24:38

be walls this DUI hire just makes

24:40

us look bad. Hexath getting off that

24:42

plan and being so indignant. No, no

24:45

attack plans were shared. I see attack

24:47

plans every day and then you see

24:49

these text messages and they have the

24:52

equipment, the cadence, the sequencing, the targets,

24:54

the time. I'm like, what do you

24:56

want? Color coded tabs? I mean, he

24:59

came across, he's handled himself so pro.

25:01

I think. So I gabbard, I don't

25:03

know. Someone's got to go. I think

25:06

someone's going to go. Do you like

25:08

their schemes of how he got? It

25:10

was a hoax. It was a hoax.

25:13

Yeah, it was a hoax. He's a

25:15

spy. He's an asset. I've never met

25:17

him. And then of course. inevitably the

25:19

pick when he goes I've never met

25:22

Jeffrey Goldberg literally picture of them standing

25:24

talking together they have met thank court

25:26

he's a national security person Jeff Goldberg

25:29

is known for national security reporting they

25:31

know each other like literally it's sort

25:33

of when Trump always goes I've never

25:36

met Maggie Haberman or I've never you

25:38

know I don't know that person who

25:40

worked with me for five ten years

25:43

a really easy prediction this is my

25:45

prediction a really easy prediction at a

25:47

very big DC event in the next

25:50

30 to 90 days. Jeffrey Goldberg and

25:52

his wife are going to walk in

25:54

somewhere. There's going to be a pause

25:57

and he is going to get a

25:59

standing ovation. Yeah. really if there's a

26:01

winner here it's journalism and it's

26:03

Jeffrey Goldberg we are so annoying

26:05

journalists are so fantastically annoying

26:08

these days I love it

26:10

but this guy just did the

26:12

right thing he just he he

26:15

resisted the temptation to just continue

26:17

listening in because he understands you

26:19

know defense and security protocols he

26:21

didn't release it till after the

26:24

attack he's been he has handled

26:26

this perfectly perfectly We'll see if it

26:28

matters. Actually, the snap poles or people

26:30

are like, what in the act? Because

26:32

one thing that it does, I do

26:34

think it's more, this is a real

26:37

crisis, is because everyone understands this. It's

26:39

very easily understandable what they did. Because

26:41

everyone has been. The one thing they're

26:43

telling the truth is, everyone has been

26:45

in these things. And they're like, you

26:47

did what? You did. You know what

26:49

I mean? Like, this is something understandable

26:51

to the average citizen of incompetence. Like,

26:53

even my mother at first, and of

26:55

course my mother immediately went when she

26:57

didn't know about it because Fox wasn't

26:59

covering it properly. And then I explained

27:01

it, she was like, well, that's not

27:04

good. And I was like, no, it's

27:06

not. And she goes, but Hillary did it.

27:08

And I'm like, that's where you go. I

27:10

was like, Biden did it. But that's where

27:12

they're going. Let me just finish this by

27:14

one proposal. I was thinking about what do

27:17

you do about this? Like this shit has

27:19

been going back and forth between

27:21

Republicans and Democrats, this leakage of

27:23

information, right, and this highly informational

27:25

age. I think we just decide

27:27

from this day forward, everyone else

27:29

before this, you get off the

27:32

hook for it. The government is

27:34

sloppy around everyone in the government,

27:36

whether it's Democrats or Republicans, have

27:38

been. arguably sloppy around communications and

27:40

especially classified communications. Everyone gets a

27:42

pass. From now on, if you

27:44

do it again, if you have,

27:46

you've side loaded shit or you're

27:49

using your personal phone, you're going down.

27:51

From now on, we're going. Everybody, nobody gets

27:53

a pass from, it's not going to

27:55

happen in the Trump administration, but let's

27:58

just clear the playing field and from

28:00

now on, these are the rules, and

28:02

if you break them, you're going to

28:05

jail. That's what I would do. What

28:07

do you think? Yeah, I like it,

28:09

but I think it runs deeper than

28:11

that. I think these guys, look, we'd

28:14

like to think that you can put

28:16

people, I mean, for God's sakes, we

28:18

got a Fox host, is defense secretary.

28:20

And we're surprised that there's amateur errors?

28:23

I mean, so it's not. Okay, you

28:25

can have protocols and find put them

28:27

in jail. That's not the problem. The

28:30

problem is an environment where you have

28:32

an autocrat who values loyalty and fealty

28:34

over competence. The other thing I think

28:36

they were doing and I think people

28:39

haven't talked about in us is they're

28:41

on signal because they're trying to avoid

28:43

accountability. and they don't want people to

28:45

see these things. And so what they're

28:48

doing is, all this stuff, just for

28:50

people who don't know, the government is

28:52

supposed to preserve all their communications on

28:55

things like this, and they're trying not

28:57

to preserve them. And the only last

28:59

thing I would say Wals did that

29:01

was astonishing to me, on signal you

29:04

can have disappearing. information. This stuff can

29:06

disappear and usually people set it to

29:08

an hour or a day. He had

29:11

four-week disappearance. I was like, are you

29:13

an idiot? Like if you're going to

29:15

disappear, it disappear right away. But I

29:17

think what they were trying to do

29:20

is avoid accountability. It's disorganized crime. That's

29:22

like they're not even competent criminals. But

29:24

that's at the heart of it, they

29:26

were trying to... abrogate their responsibility to

29:29

preserve accountability. And I think that's why

29:31

they were on that chain. And so

29:33

they were hiding and they were hiding

29:36

and then they got caught essentially. The

29:38

US military, our ability, our near monopoly

29:40

power on the ability to deliver violence

29:42

all over the world in a lethally

29:45

devastating expert competent way, I don't think,

29:47

especially people on the left, I don't

29:49

think they realize they realize. how much

29:52

prosperity that delivers to us, that fear

29:54

when the attacks of October 7th happened

29:56

and Hamas is hoping to inspire a

29:58

multi-front war on Israel, Biden sends these

30:01

amazing things called the U.S. carrier strike.

30:03

forces that literally take a city to

30:05

run and massive, massive capital expenditure and

30:07

skills and 5,000 sailors who are just

30:10

so highly trained, so committed, so willing

30:12

to put themselves and he parks them

30:14

off the coast of the Mediterranean and

30:17

says to Iran, sit the fuck down.

30:19

And we don't have a multifront war.

30:21

a nuclear power backed into a corner,

30:23

Israel. America doesn't realize it doesn't miss

30:26

what it doesn't have, and that is

30:28

a level of, it has so much

30:30

prosperity, so many freedoms that they don't

30:32

recognize are a function of a military

30:35

that trusts each other, that trusts that

30:37

the people back in Langley, Virginia, will

30:39

not accidentally share who I am and

30:42

I will be tortured and then murdered,

30:44

that if I am flying... with a

30:46

package of armaments and a cash to

30:48

deliver that I have the right coordinates

30:51

and the air defense systems haven't gotten

30:53

it. And the Russians don't know it.

30:55

The Chinese don't know it. And the

30:58

Iranians don't know it. This is so,

31:00

it's just moronic. It's moronic and they're

31:02

liars and they're trying to hide at

31:04

the same time. Anyway, okay, Scott, let's

31:07

go on a quick break. When we

31:09

come back, Trump unveils his latest tariffs.

31:15

It's been a rough week for

31:17

your retirement account, your friend who

31:19

imports products from China for the

31:21

Tiktok shop, and also Hooters. Hooters

31:23

has now filed for bankruptcy, but

31:25

they say they are not going

31:27

anywhere. Last year, Hooters closed dozens

31:30

of restaurants because of rising food

31:32

and labor costs. Hooters is shifting

31:34

away from its iconic skimpy waitress

31:36

outfits and bikini days instead opting

31:38

for a family-friendly vibe. They're vowing

31:40

to improve the food and ingredients,

31:42

and staff is now being urged

31:45

to greet women first when groups

31:47

arrive. Maybe in April of 2025

31:49

you're thinking good riddance? Does the

31:51

world still really need this chain

31:53

of restaurants? But then we were

31:55

surprised to learn of who exactly

31:57

was mourning. the potential loss of

32:00

hooders. Straight guys who like chicken,

32:02

sure. But also a bunch of

32:04

gay guys who like chicken. Check

32:06

out today, explain to find out

32:08

why exactly that is, won't you?

32:10

The Nintendo Switch 2 is basically

32:12

guaranteed to be the most interesting

32:15

gadget of 2025. And we learned

32:17

a lot of new stuff about

32:19

it this last week or so.

32:21

some of the games that are

32:23

coming out, some of the specs

32:25

of the new device, and the

32:27

fact that it's going to cost

32:30

$429.99. Except maybe it's not, because

32:32

the other thing going on right

32:34

now is tariffs, and tariffs threaten

32:36

to change just about everything, about

32:38

tech. What it is, how it's

32:40

made, where it comes from, and

32:42

crucially, how much we have to

32:45

pay for it. So that's what

32:47

we're talking about on the Virgcast

32:49

all week, wherever you get podcasts.

32:57

Scott, we're back. President Trump

32:59

announced a 25% tariff on

33:01

imported cars and car parts.

33:03

Let's listen. This is the

33:05

beginning of Liberation Day in

33:07

America. We're going to take

33:09

back just some of the

33:11

money that has been taken

33:13

from us by people sitting

33:16

behind this desk or another

33:18

desk that's not quite as

33:20

nice, but they have their

33:22

choice of seven, as you

33:24

know. And we're going to...

33:26

charge countries for doing business in

33:28

our country and taking our jobs,

33:30

taking a lot of things that

33:32

they've been taking over the years.

33:34

They've taken so much out of

33:37

our country. He's so obsessed with

33:39

it. First of all, his digressions

33:41

are so strange about the deaths,

33:43

but his obsession with we're getting

33:45

cheated is really, it's becoming like...

33:47

What's your fucking problem, dude? Everyone's

33:49

not trying to cheat you all

33:51

the time. And again, every accusation

33:53

is a confession. He's a cheater,

33:55

and so he focuses in on

33:57

cheaters. takers and things like that.

33:59

And that's exactly what he is.

34:01

The terrorists will go into effect

34:03

on April 2nd and will apply

34:05

to finished vehicles shipped into the

34:07

US, including from American brands that

34:09

assemble outside the country. Almost half

34:11

of all vehicles sold in the

34:13

US are imported. But lo and

34:15

behold, Tesla will be spared on

34:17

tests, but lo and behold, Tesla

34:19

will be spared on tests but

34:21

is still significant. No, it is

34:23

not. Again, a lie. Do you

34:25

think Trump. We'll pull these back

34:27

and what does he keep doing

34:29

here? Because it really spooked the

34:31

markets were covering a tiny bit

34:33

and then they didn't. So any

34:35

thoughts on this? Well, I had

34:37

a few thoughts listening to the

34:39

speech. That's the first time that

34:41

I have in my view or

34:43

that I've really noticed cognitive decline.

34:45

It's the first time I thought,

34:47

oh, wow, I was getting old.

34:50

And you've been saying it for

34:52

a while. That's the first time

34:54

I really saw evidence of it.

34:56

He just sounds not flight of

34:58

flight of foot, so to so

35:00

to speak. Like, and also his

35:02

speech writer clearly is mimicking what

35:04

Nigel Farage said about Brexit, claimed

35:06

that it was, this is our

35:08

independence day. And it's like, well,

35:10

folks, you realize that people declare

35:12

independence from Britain, not, Britain doesn't

35:14

declare independence, like, declaring independence from

35:16

Ho, but we've just said this

35:18

all along. If you were looking

35:20

for the most elegant, clear, blue

35:22

line path to increasing prices and

35:24

reducing the competitiveness. of our products

35:26

overseas as reciprocal tariffs are implemented,

35:28

there's no more elegant a way

35:30

to reduce prosperity in economic history

35:32

probably than tariffs. And it comes

35:34

down to, so I teach strategy,

35:36

and if you try to distill

35:38

strategy down to a few basic

35:40

tenants, two of them would be

35:42

the following. In strategy you're trying

35:44

to answer one question, what can

35:46

we do that's really hard? either

35:48

with spending $18 billion a year

35:50

on content is really hard but

35:52

we have access to cheap capital.

35:54

Okay, we're Netflix. Building the most

35:56

robust supply chain in the world

35:58

because of access to cheap capital

36:00

is really hard. hardware, Amazon. What

36:03

can we do that is really

36:05

hard? And then the second thing

36:07

is the biggest mistake people making

36:09

strategy organizations is believing that they're

36:11

boxing against a speed bag or

36:13

that they're in that Twilight Zone

36:15

where when they move they stop

36:17

time and no one else responds.

36:19

And this is the strategic here

36:21

is so basic and that is

36:23

he's under the impression that the

36:25

US is so powerful and superior

36:27

that we can just levy tariffs.

36:29

errantly, without any rationale, and that

36:31

they won't respond, and levy reciprocal

36:33

tariffs. As a matter of fact,

36:35

you want to talk about people

36:37

who are doing it strategically. Canada

36:39

and Europe have said not only

36:41

are we going to implement reciprocal

36:43

tariffs, we're going to be especially

36:45

hard on the tariffs affecting red

36:47

states. We're going after your heart

36:49

and lungs, President Trump. I mean,

36:51

they're being quite strategic about it.

36:53

And it's this basic error. Companies

36:55

may, I see companies make this

36:57

all the time, we're going to

36:59

do this, we're going to do

37:01

this, we're like, okay, you realize

37:03

that Adidas and On will do

37:05

the same thing. I mean, they

37:07

will respond. And that is the

37:09

biggest strategic error is assuming that

37:11

you are operating in a vacuum

37:13

of strength and that your competitors

37:15

aren't going to respond. And every

37:18

nation. has levied reciprocal tariffs. No

37:20

one has said. No one has

37:22

said, President Trump, you're so big

37:24

and bad and America's so amazing.

37:26

I think there's an argument that

37:28

you could say we have unfairly

37:30

subsidized a military umbrella for the

37:32

second and third largest economies in

37:34

the world, specifically Japan and Germany

37:36

and maybe most of Europe. I

37:38

think that's a real, I mean,

37:40

that's a valid argument. But the

37:42

notion that we don't get the

37:44

better end or as good a

37:46

deal. On any trade agreement, on

37:48

any business relationship is just not

37:50

true. I have done business in

37:52

every large Western nation and there

37:54

is a brand halo by rule

37:56

of law, innovation, the fact that

37:58

we are willing to enforce. the

38:00

fact that we don't take shit

38:02

from anyone, that we attract to

38:04

the best and the brightest. When

38:06

you walk into a room, even

38:08

as a small firm, I ran

38:10

small strategy firms, you benefit from

38:12

the halo of the American brand.

38:14

And to think somehow that people

38:16

were taking advantage of us, it's

38:18

just, it's this weird victim complex.

38:20

It's this weird notion of, again,

38:22

I make decisions in isolation, no

38:24

one will respond, and somehow I'm

38:26

the victim. It's incredibly immature, and

38:28

it lacks all what I call

38:31

forward-leaning thinking or real kind of

38:33

blue flame thinking around strategy and

38:35

game theory. Well, it's just, I

38:37

think it's just moronic. I don't

38:39

know what else to say. It's

38:41

just, and it's more that, better

38:43

or that. Trump's crypto venture, World

38:45

Liberty Financials, announced plans to launch

38:47

a stable coin. This is, this

38:49

guy is just literally, he's like,

38:51

he's like, he's like octopus. He

38:53

like, goes everywhere, like, goes everywhere,

38:55

like, hands, guy who's everywhere at

38:57

once, stable coins are tied to

38:59

assets to maintain more stable prices,

39:01

for every coin. That's, anyway, GOP

39:03

law makers are currently working on

39:05

legislation to regulate stable coins. World

39:07

Finance, Liberty Financial said it has

39:09

broaded in over $500 million from

39:11

previous coin sales. Trump media also

39:13

announced a partnership with crypto.com this

39:15

week and to launch a series

39:17

of ETFs. I know there's a

39:19

firehose of news every day, but

39:21

what in the actual Fox, speaking

39:23

of what in the actual, there's

39:25

so many what in the actual

39:27

thugs, but he should not be

39:29

doing crypto. He should not be

39:31

doing crypto and his family shouldn't

39:33

be doing crypto and they're doing

39:35

crypto which is such a Like

39:37

an opaque area thoughts very brief

39:39

thoughts It's griffed and there's some

39:41

when you're trying to chase down

39:44

or respond to National security breaches

39:46

of incompetence and recklessness it kind

39:48

of unfortunately wallpapers over the fact

39:50

that he's engaging in a level

39:52

of griff for his kids that

39:54

if Obama did it there might

39:56

have been a move to impeach

39:58

him and some Democrats would have

40:00

voted to impeach him. I mean

40:02

the standards have just been lowered

40:04

so dramatically. I was thinking about

40:06

when I remember going to China

40:08

a few times with a group

40:10

of American businessmen and we would

40:12

or they would bring up the

40:14

notion of human rights and can

40:16

you imagine us even having the

40:18

gall or the gumption to bring

40:20

up human rights violations now when

40:22

we go abroad? We can't. We

40:24

can't. Or to accuse them of

40:26

grift and corruption. It's just, we

40:28

have lost all moral authority. High

40:30

horse. All the high horses are

40:32

gone. We're down off the high

40:34

horse. This is just ridiculous. He

40:36

should not be doing this. We

40:38

should look into this. There's no

40:40

power to look into it, but

40:42

this is just grift, pure, and

40:44

simple. And especially in an area

40:46

that is about to be, GOP

40:48

lawmakers are working on legislation. This

40:50

is so, like, he shouldn't even

40:52

sign the frigate, he won't do

40:54

it. And then it's open for

40:57

so much fraud for regular consumers.

40:59

Just buy or beware in many

41:01

ways. All right, Scott, let's go

41:03

on a quick break. We come

41:05

back, we'll talk about whether Disney's

41:07

Trump donation, Trump donation is paying

41:09

off. the newest podcast network. Scott,

41:11

we're back. The FCC plans to

41:13

investigate Disney's DEI practices. They just

41:15

are moving from company to company

41:17

doing this. Disney shareholders rejected an

41:19

anti-DEI proposal earlier this year. By

41:21

the way, Apple and I think

41:23

it was Costco also did. Last

41:25

fall, Disney settled a defamation lawsuit

41:27

with Trump. and after the election

41:29

agreed to pay $15 million donation

41:31

to Trump's presidential library, I mean,

41:33

the sucking up to Trump isn't

41:35

even paying off, right? It just

41:37

isn't working. I don't know what

41:39

to say. They're going to go

41:41

to every DEAI thing and just

41:43

keep litigating one after the other,

41:45

whether it's law firms who are

41:47

against Trump or whatever they happen

41:49

to do, whether it's... DEI or

41:51

just pure revenge, they're going to

41:53

keep doing this shakedown. It feels

41:55

like I'm in the middle of

41:57

the early scenes from the Godfather

41:59

movie with Robert De Niro wandering

42:01

from Italian-owned store to Italian-owned store.

42:03

I don't know what to say.

42:05

Well, there's two things here. There's

42:07

the policy around whether DEI practices

42:10

should be legal or illegal. That's

42:12

in their current form. That's a

42:14

valid argument. But the problem here,

42:16

and you introduced this word to

42:18

me, is systemic change versus non-systemic

42:20

change. And that is, when the

42:22

president goes after Colombia, you know,

42:24

it tickles my sensors. I like

42:26

that. I think that the Ivy

42:28

League has tolerated a level of

42:30

anti-Semitism. They would not tolerate across

42:32

any other special interest group. But

42:34

the way you address it is

42:36

you pass laws that affect everybody.

42:38

You don't decide who you dislike

42:40

the most and host a... Hi,

42:42

I'm Cal Worthington, 10% off your

42:44

Tesla right now. You're supposed to

42:46

pass laws that show a lack

42:48

of favoritism because there's no way

42:50

to implement targets or enemies or

42:52

favoritism for your allies without it

42:54

just becoming an autocrat, you know,

42:56

an autocracy. And corrupt. So before

42:58

we even start here, when he

43:00

starts targeting individual firms or the

43:02

head of the Department of Justice

43:04

calls out. or the attorney general

43:06

calls out Disney by name, if

43:08

he were to say the media

43:10

is going to not have certain

43:12

protections around certain slander and it's

43:14

true for everyone, okay, you might

43:16

disagree, you might think that puts

43:18

a chill, but when they start

43:20

going after specific universities and specific

43:23

companies... Law firms? Then all you're

43:25

trying to do is say, okay,

43:27

we're Paul Weiss or we're... Perkins

43:29

or were or were or were

43:31

Scadden Arbs or whoever lay them

43:33

walking so this is what we're

43:35

going to do We're going to

43:37

work for their kids for free

43:39

on this new Trump stable coin

43:41

thing because then we'll stay out

43:43

of his crosshairs and you end

43:45

up in a downward spiral of

43:47

corruption where, and for corruption folks,

43:49

that's the biggest tax because people

43:51

get unfair advantage and it's taxed

43:53

on everyone else that doesn't have

43:55

proximity to the president or isn't

43:57

willing to pay him. And we

43:59

talked about this on CNN. There

44:01

is a domino of cowardice. Bob

44:03

Eiger, your cowardice inspired Paul Weiss

44:05

partner to say, okay, we'll pay

44:07

or we'll settle rather than fight.

44:09

Your cowardice inspires Jeff Bezos to

44:11

go the quickest way for me

44:13

to get to 110 to 150

44:15

billion is to get rid of

44:17

the opinion section of the Washington

44:19

Post Until one of these guys

44:21

and let's be honest, they're all

44:23

guys says fuck you and the

44:25

public and shareholders in business rally

44:27

around this person This is just

44:29

going to continue. He's just going

44:31

to have these one-offs and everyone's

44:33

going to go I don't want

44:36

to be in this crosshair, so

44:38

just give them a couple million

44:40

bucks for an inauguration or come

44:42

out and say you'll work for

44:44

the stable coin or you'll buy,

44:46

wink wink. The thing about these

44:48

crypto coins is effectively what the

44:50

family has done. They have, under

44:52

our watch, opened a Swiss bank

44:54

account and anyone could put money

44:56

in and Trump gets to know

44:58

who's putting money in, but no

45:00

one else knows. It is such

45:02

incredible, like, grift. And I don't

45:04

think it's an accident. They announce

45:06

it and decide to move forward

45:08

when it's like, oh, wait, we've

45:10

had a national security. How do

45:12

we turn, how do we turn

45:14

lemons and a lemonade? Everyone's going

45:16

to be focused on Hexeth, so

45:18

let's announce the stable coin with

45:20

it. Can you imagine Sasha Malio

45:22

Obama and Chelsea Clinton launching a

45:24

crypto coin? I mean, everyone would

45:26

be going fucking crazy, right? It's

45:28

not their fault. It's our fault.

45:30

And the way we got to

45:32

get back to this is to

45:34

be brave for companies to stand

45:36

up to them. And we need

45:38

to begin immediately pushing back, being

45:40

fearless, and also, 2026 is not

45:42

that far away. Yeah, exactly. Let

45:44

me give you an excellent example

45:46

for the Atlantic is doing. And

45:49

by the way... They are fucking

45:51

bad-assers. Carolyn Leavitt, Tracy Flick. Lying

45:53

again on the stand at the

45:55

White House goes, the mainstream media

45:57

continues to be focused on a

45:59

sensationalized story from the failing Atlantic

46:01

magazine that is falling apart by

46:03

the hour, which is not true.

46:05

Literally, everything comes out our mouth

46:07

as a lie. Fact check, Nick

46:09

Thompson, who is the CEO of

46:11

Atlantic, which is doing really well.

46:13

We have more subscribers than ever

46:15

before. Ads are up. We're profitable.

46:17

We're expanding print issues and podcasts.

46:19

We published everything that is neutering.

46:21

We're hiring more and more great

46:23

journalists to cover you fairly. and

46:25

the fire symbol, which is what,

46:27

I think it was Mike Walsh

46:29

who used those emogies, you know,

46:31

in terms of the attack. It's

46:33

just, pushing back is the best

46:35

way to go here with these

46:37

people. You have to both be

46:39

factual and you have to also

46:41

punch back at this nonsense. And

46:43

what is really interesting is they

46:45

can't get this story out of

46:47

this new cycle, and it's day

46:49

five, and he hasn't been able

46:51

to change a subject by all

46:53

manner of diversions, so don't let

46:55

him. Don't let them change the

46:57

subject kind of thing. And so

46:59

we'll see where it goes, but

47:02

Disney should stand up. All these

47:04

companies should stand up and stop

47:06

and find their, you know, find

47:08

whatever you want to say, their

47:10

backbone or their, or their set.

47:12

So very quickly, Megan Kelly's launching

47:14

a podcast network. Lots of people

47:16

are doing this. MK Media launching

47:18

next month will have shows from

47:20

Mark Halprin, Marine Callahan, and Link

47:22

Lauren. I think the company she's

47:24

worked with was sold to Fox,

47:26

the Red, whatever you call it.

47:28

Let's listen to what Megan has

47:30

to say about this. I'm so

47:32

excited about these three. Aren't these

47:34

a great three to launch with?

47:36

They cover the gamut, right? It's

47:38

like, Link has got such a

47:40

following amongst young, sort of right

47:42

leaning people or independent-minded people who

47:44

have just had it with the

47:46

weird left. Anyway, her podcast, which

47:48

launched in 2020, I was the

47:50

first people that talked to her

47:52

about doing a podcast, as I've

47:54

said before, is consistently one of

47:56

the most popular news about podcasts

47:58

in the country. I don't know

48:00

if it's news exactly. You're kind

48:02

of sure that her, I think

48:04

she's just a rage machine and

48:06

she has a little act that

48:08

she takes on the road and

48:10

screams at women, a lot of

48:12

women. But the idea of what's

48:15

happening here is a bigger thing

48:17

is there's a lot of really

48:19

interesting independent companies being created, whether

48:21

they're on conservative or liberal, and

48:23

it really is this idea of

48:25

doing these podcast networks is going

48:27

to be really interesting in how

48:29

you do them and keep them

48:31

entrepreneurial. I know Scott and I

48:33

have talked about it. What is

48:35

wrong with her? Anyway, it's really,

48:37

it's an interesting time for this

48:39

idea of industrialization of podcasting and

48:41

some of these other things as

48:43

they move into video. Any quick

48:45

thoughts? First of, I just, White

48:47

House spokesperson Leavitt married a 59-year-old

48:49

when she's 27, so I'm kind

48:51

of a fan, but that gives

48:53

me, I think it means I

48:55

have a shot with AOC. Well,

48:57

you know my criteria for every

48:59

spouse I've had. It's very simple.

49:01

No? Okay, never mind. Okay, never

49:03

mind. Okay, go ahead. What is

49:05

it? Go ahead of me. It's

49:07

simple, two things, a bad ass

49:09

or the great ass. Okay. We're

49:11

going to hear it on that

49:13

one. Okay, I kind of like

49:15

that. We're going to hear it

49:17

in the comments on that. Okay,

49:19

I like that. I hate that.

49:21

I hate that. I hate myself.

49:23

All right, just talk about the

49:25

podcast network. I'd rather not talk

49:28

about Megan Kelly because I think

49:30

she's a rage machine and hateful,

49:32

but go ahead. Megan is very

49:34

talented. And you've got to separate

49:36

the person and their talent from

49:38

their political views. It's performative rage.

49:40

Okay, so one of my big

49:42

predictions in October of 24 was

49:44

25. I have Tech of the

49:46

Year, Media of the Year, Stock

49:48

of the Year, that the Media

49:50

of the Year, hands down, podcast.

49:52

And it happened on Election Day,

49:54

and that is So much money

49:56

pours into local news stations because

49:58

old people supposedly determine elections and

50:00

old people still want to get

50:02

the weather on their local news

50:04

stations. So local news stations are

50:06

hemorrhage money for 22 months and

50:08

then for two months every two

50:10

years they jack up their rates

50:12

by sevenfold and they sell out

50:14

because because the local guy running

50:16

for Congress just plows money into

50:18

it. That typically is a six-year-old,

50:20

the average person is a six-year-old

50:22

white woman watching cable news or

50:24

listening to local television. Local television

50:26

is probably even older. Trump realized

50:28

he zagged when everyone's egged, went

50:30

on the atmosphere, went into podcast,

50:32

went on every fucking testosterone-laden podcast,

50:34

and it was brilliant. And the

50:36

average... listener to a podcast is

50:38

a 34-year-old male. And a 34-year-old

50:41

male is Latin for swing voter

50:43

because they care about economics. And

50:45

who is seen as better on

50:47

the economy is dynamic. Sometimes it's

50:49

Democrats when they realize, oh, they've

50:51

created 50 million jobs in the

50:53

last four decades and Republicans have

50:55

created one million. And sometimes it's

50:57

people to, oh, Republicans are acknowledging

50:59

inflation. They're speaking more. They're business

51:01

people. Trump's a businessman. So it

51:03

goes back and forth. So they're

51:05

the swing voter. In addition, you

51:07

have, you're having, you're seeing a

51:09

flood of advertising into this young

51:11

male demographic because by the way,

51:13

those people are the great white

51:15

rhino of advertisers because they're stupid.

51:17

They spend money on things like

51:19

shoes and watches and coffee and

51:21

their decision makers and their companies

51:23

around technology. They buy high margin

51:25

products and you can't reach them

51:27

because they're watching Netflix and Spotify.

51:29

So where do you reach a

51:31

34-year-year-old male? on podcast. Reaching a

51:33

young male wealthy audience is an

51:35

advertiser's dream and you can't reach

51:37

them anywhere else. In addition, 50%

51:39

of people have said they listen

51:41

at least one podcast a month.

51:43

The medium is growing faster than

51:45

alphabet or meta right now in

51:47

terms of ad revenue. In addition,

51:49

there's a built-in moat and that

51:51

moat is the following. Because we

51:54

started seven years ago, we have

51:56

a huge subscriber base on Apple,

51:58

on Spotify. on YouTube and anything

52:00

we drop gets downloaded on when

52:02

you subscribe and advertisers base their

52:04

advertising. and CPMs based on your

52:06

built-in installed base. So if you

52:08

have been in the podcasting game

52:10

for a while, you almost have

52:12

a natural mode around you because

52:14

advertisers will only advertise on pods

52:16

who have a certain amount of

52:18

scale. So the little guys, the

52:20

699,000 podcasts that aren't in the

52:22

top 1,000, it is difficult for

52:24

them to make it out of

52:26

the crib. So you have a

52:28

plethora, you have a tectonic shift

52:30

in the flows of rivers of

52:32

advertising capital into this new medium,

52:34

and you actually, strangely enough, despite

52:36

the fact there's low barriers of

52:38

entry and 700,000 podcasts put out

52:40

something every week, there's really only

52:42

five or 600 of them that

52:44

have the scale that advertisers want,

52:46

meaning like almost Every other medium

52:48

where digitization comes in, it's become

52:50

a winner-take-most, if not all, environment.

52:52

What's interesting about podcasting is the

52:54

two newer platforms. Are YouTube, more

52:56

people listen to podcasts on YouTube

52:58

now than on Spot Affair Apple,

53:00

20% of my listens at ProfG

53:02

because of ProfG markets are very

53:04

visual, is on TVs. It's on

53:07

YouTube that people airplay to their

53:09

TV. You're seeing our revenues here,

53:11

pivot, are comping up for the

53:13

last seven years, probably 28 or

53:15

30% a year. So this is

53:17

attracting a ton of talent, a

53:19

ton of capital, a big growth

53:21

up a small base, and Megan,

53:23

and oh, and by the way,

53:25

I forgot, you know who's just

53:27

decided they're getting into the podcasting

53:29

game? Netflix. So if they put

53:31

Steve Bartlett or pivot or on

53:33

with Kara Swisher on their front

53:35

page for a hot minute in

53:37

front of 300 million people, That

53:39

podcast is going to go into

53:41

the top 10. They're getting into

53:43

the game. So you're going to

53:45

see advertisers switch to the small

53:47

number of companies that have scale.

53:49

You're going to see a dramatic

53:51

increase in advertising spend. You're going

53:53

to see some multi, some nine

53:55

figure plus. deals in podcasting. You're

53:57

going to see some really, really

53:59

big deals. This is the medium

54:01

of 2026. Let me ask you

54:03

a question because I was just

54:05

thinking about this. Like things were

54:07

on par with advertising to do

54:09

really well this year and now

54:11

this terror thing that Trump's doing

54:13

is fucking with everybody's business and

54:15

ads. They're showing a little bit

54:17

now they're like, oh, maybe not

54:20

so much, because things were really

54:22

sort of... The juice was going

54:24

for a minute there, but they're

54:26

noticing that when people pull, they're

54:28

going to pull from this. Is

54:30

that a worry? Okay. In the

54:32

short term, yes. It hurts everybody,

54:34

because people go onto a standstill

54:36

and we've seen this and they

54:38

say, just, you know, cool your

54:40

jets, stand down until we figure

54:42

out what's going on. However, if

54:44

you look at the shifts in

54:46

mediums, everyone knew people were shifting

54:48

money and ad spend from traditional

54:50

media into... search-based media or social-based

54:52

media. We all knew that but

54:54

what happens is whenever there's an

54:56

economic shock and media planners and

54:58

big agencies are forced to rethink

55:00

their budgets they typically they typically

55:02

take everyone down but then they

55:04

come back in the new mediums.

55:06

Exogenous shocks give a company pause

55:08

to rethink their entire media strategy

55:10

and that almost benefits the new

55:12

guys. So actually in recessions and

55:14

in economic shocks In the short

55:16

term, it hurts everybody, but in

55:18

the medium term, it massively expedites

55:20

the transition that was sort of

55:22

already happening at a low speed.

55:24

It expedites it in Google and

55:26

meta. When they take their advertising

55:28

budgets back, it gives them a

55:30

chance to think, should we be

55:33

spending this much on newspapers or

55:35

broadcast television? Maybe not. We know

55:37

we're going back into tick talk

55:39

and meta and alphabet. So while

55:41

we will absolutely, with these tariffs,

55:43

see a reduction in our growth.

55:45

It's not going to be there

55:47

first. When the economy comes back,

55:49

it's going to expedite the disruption.

55:51

The shift, yeah, people are thinking,

55:53

you're right. Okay, I wanted to

55:55

understand that. All right, Scott, one

55:57

more quick break. We'll be back

55:59

for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear

56:01

a prediction. Look, the Chinese see

56:03

this void. We had spent decades

56:05

and $70-80 billion a year on

56:07

USAID helping fund a hospital in

56:09

Cambodia. Tremendous goodwill in Cambodia. set

56:11

up this infrastructure, it was working

56:13

well, money was being put to

56:15

good use. We just cut it

56:17

off. You know who showed up

56:19

literally the next week? And this

56:21

is a true story, the Chinese.

56:23

And they are taking advantage of

56:25

all the good work that's been

56:27

done to usurp soft power. And

56:29

I believe this is going to

56:31

goes back to the notion that

56:33

we have a monopoly on our

56:35

ability to deliver violence, we have

56:37

I think 700 bases and 70

56:39

or 80 nations. I think China

56:41

has two or three. You're going

56:43

to see... a dramatic increase in

56:46

the number of Chinese military bases

56:48

on foreign soil. Because they are

56:50

filling our shoes and getting massive

56:52

benefit from the organizations, the relationships,

56:54

and the NGO sector that we

56:56

were funding, and they'll just slip

56:58

into those shoes and say, no,

57:00

no, you don't need to close

57:02

the hospital. the good guys are

57:04

here. And that is going to,

57:06

and nothing's for free, the next

57:08

time they show up in a

57:10

year, two years, three years and

57:12

say, look, we'd like to have

57:14

a naval base here, we'd like

57:16

to be able to refuel our

57:18

planes here, and we'll pay for

57:20

the revenue. And by the way,

57:22

how's the hospital coming? Is it

57:24

still working great? So we're going

57:26

to see for the first time

57:28

a dramatic increase in Chinese military

57:30

bases overseas which to date the

57:32

U.S. really has had a monopoly

57:34

on. This soft power translates to

57:36

hard power and people don't realize,

57:38

again, these people don't think long

57:40

term before? Well, the whole basis

57:42

of an elected official at the

57:44

end of the day. It goes

57:46

back to strategy. What are you

57:48

do? What are you supposed to

57:50

do that's really hard? What are

57:52

you supposed to do that's really

57:54

hard? You're supposed to prevent a

57:56

tragedy of the common... over the

57:59

medium and the long term. Can

58:01

I make it an interjection here?

58:03

Because there's just a new story

58:05

of New York Times saying that

58:07

Trump administration abruptly cuts billions from

58:09

state health services. This is across

58:11

our country. States have been told

58:13

they can no longer use grants

58:15

that were funding infectious disease management

58:17

and addiction services. They've cut $12

58:19

billion in federal grants to states

58:21

for being used to track infectious

58:23

diseases, mental health services, addiction treatment,

58:25

and other urgent health issues. That

58:27

means these state health departments were

58:29

already underfunded. are in real trouble,

58:31

they receive notices Monday the funds

58:33

which are allocated or being terminated.

58:35

And let me just say, in

58:37

Lubbock, Texas, public health officials, this

58:39

is not, these are red states,

58:41

just so you know, red state

58:43

people. They're leopards about to eat

58:45

your face. Public health officials have

58:47

received orders to stop work supported

58:49

by these three grants that help

58:51

fund the response to the whiting

58:53

measles outbreak there, according to Catherine

58:55

Wells. This is the same thing.

58:57

This is goodwill and the things

58:59

that the government does that are

59:01

effective for people and it's going

59:03

to be the same issue in

59:05

this country. The question is who's

59:07

going to come into the breach,

59:09

right? Which is what you're talking

59:11

about with the Chinese doing that.

59:14

I don't know if you'd like

59:16

to link those. I like that.

59:18

I think that makes sense. It's

59:20

the same attitude across this country

59:22

and it will have repercussions. But

59:24

the people of the entities that

59:26

will feel the void abroad. are

59:28

foreign nations, some of which do

59:30

not have our best interests at

59:32

heart. I don't think of China's

59:34

enemy. I think of them as

59:36

a competitor, maybe even an adversary.

59:38

The organizations that will fill the

59:40

void in the US. are for-profit

59:42

organizations that over the medium and

59:44

the long term will probably demand

59:46

margin. So what happens when the

59:48

government vacates from these services is

59:50

private, and this is what they

59:52

want. They want private enterprise running

59:54

all prisons. They want private, they

59:56

want to privatize Social Security because

59:58

in corporations will insert themselves in

1:00:00

the middle, in some ways they're

1:00:02

more. productive. Some ways they're just

1:00:04

interested in making money. That's what

1:00:06

they do. Yeah I know and

1:00:08

that's not good for the public

1:00:10

comment. They'll get monopoly power on

1:00:12

the jails and whatever this part

1:00:14

of the county or this part

1:00:16

of the state they will slowly

1:00:18

raise the rates and we will

1:00:20

end up paying more for less.

1:00:22

There are certain things that should

1:00:24

be delivered at scale. The electricity

1:00:27

in a city needs a monopoly

1:00:29

and in order to have monopolies

1:00:31

you have to have regulators such

1:00:33

that they don't enact monopoly pricing

1:00:35

pricing power. So this is, if

1:00:37

abroad, our adversaries will fill the

1:00:39

void domestically with these businesses that

1:00:41

they're cutting, you'll see private enterprise

1:00:43

move in, and over the medium

1:00:45

and the long term, the consumer

1:00:47

will lose. Lesser services, exactly. All

1:00:49

right, elsewhere in the Scott and

1:00:51

Kerry universe this week, on ProfG

1:00:53

Market, Scott spoke with Carson Brazeski,

1:00:55

a chief Eurozone economist for ING,

1:00:57

Scott's been talking a lot about

1:00:59

Europe. What's going on in Europe.

1:01:01

Let's listen to a clip. That

1:01:03

means the same as guilt. I

1:01:05

think that is not the only

1:01:07

language. But that is an important

1:01:09

one. So somehow debt, like government

1:01:11

debt, always had a negative connotation.

1:01:13

So Germany was clearly the fiscally

1:01:15

frugal country which could tell the

1:01:17

southern European economies to also do

1:01:19

austerity. So interesting discussion about what's

1:01:21

happening there, I thought it was,

1:01:23

I listened to it. Yeah, I'm

1:01:25

convinced if my co-host on property

1:01:27

markets was German, we just wouldn't

1:01:29

be successful. Yeah, let's look, let's

1:01:31

talk about AI in the markets.

1:01:33

It just doesn't have the same.

1:01:35

Ring is when a British guy

1:01:37

is talking about it. It's a

1:01:40

good German joke. But the thing

1:01:42

he was talking about, I don't

1:01:44

think you got to flee across,

1:01:46

the German word for debt translates

1:01:48

to guilt in English. Isn't that

1:01:50

interesting? Yeah. And they're about to

1:01:52

kind of unchain their their fiscal

1:01:54

strength for infrastructure spending and military

1:01:56

spending, which I think is going

1:01:58

to be a big deal. Yeah.

1:02:00

You know, and you've been talking

1:02:02

about the European, now suddenly I've

1:02:04

seen stories in the Wall Street

1:02:06

Journal, how the place you shouldn't,

1:02:08

should invest in is, is Germany.

1:02:10

What was my stock pick? What

1:02:12

was my stock pick for 2025?

1:02:14

Europe. You're a great, European value

1:02:16

stock. Just for people who don't

1:02:18

speak German, which I do, Schuld,

1:02:20

you know, when we say, excuse

1:02:22

me, and Schildigan. There's something like

1:02:24

that, something like that. My favorite

1:02:26

German is far from Nuggen. Far

1:02:28

from, you love that word. Oh,

1:02:30

it's the best. All right, that's

1:02:32

our show. Thanks for listening to

1:02:34

Pivit and be sure to like

1:02:36

and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

1:02:38

We'll be back on Friday. Scott,

1:02:40

read us out. Today's show was

1:02:42

produced by Lara Name and Zoe

1:02:44

Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Unertide

1:02:46

engineered this episode. Ronnie Paladaro edited

1:02:48

this video. Thanks also to Juberos,

1:02:50

Misaviro, and Dan Shalon. In your

1:02:53

shock, Kerwa, is executive producer of

1:02:55

audio. Make sure you're subscribe to

1:02:57

the show wherever you listen to

1:02:59

podcasts. Thanks for listening to pivot

1:03:01

from New York magazine, Vox Media.

1:03:03

You can subscribe to the magazine

1:03:05

at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next

1:03:07

week for another breakdown of all

1:03:09

things tech and business. That's right.

1:03:11

A whiskey, emoji, dancing, and a

1:03:13

limp dig. The dog is in

1:03:15

the chat.