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slash box today to learn

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1:09

podcast is supported by Google. Hi,

1:12

I'm Dave, one of the product leads

1:14

on Google Gemini. We just launched Gemini

1:16

Canvas. It's my new

1:18

go -to for real -time collaboration with

1:20

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get feedback, iterate. all in

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gemini .google.com. We know how to

1:40

get people to fuck. Scott and Cara know how to

1:42

get people to fuck. Hi

1:46

everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine

1:48

and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara

1:50

Swisher, R .I .P., Pope

1:52

Francis, who died doing what he

1:54

loved best, which was calling JD Vance an

1:56

asshole. So last night, my kid, my

1:58

14 year old, comes into room, middle the night,

2:00

all upset, and he said, dad, on my group

2:02

chat, it says we're bombing the Hooties in 1900

2:05

hours. Should I be worried? the

2:08

way, we're mixing, we're mixing.

2:10

We're mixing jokes. Scandals here.

2:12

We're mixing not scandals. I'm

2:14

serious. I think everybody, this is

2:16

my suggestion to everybody should

2:18

you decide that there's so much

2:20

There's so much ridiculously insane

2:22

deprived weirdness and competence every day

2:24

that we don't know where

2:26

to start every text message I

2:28

send out now I end

2:30

with 1700 hours cash at 15s

2:33

coming into Yemen. I'm Every

2:35

message I'm putting in fake military

2:37

information. He's referring Scott's referring

2:39

to the second signal gate or

2:41

probably the 10th probably the

2:43

20th Pete Hexeth was was including

2:45

his wife his personal lawyer

2:47

or friends in attacks on,

2:49

I think it's Yemen, right? Was

2:51

it Yemen? Yemen, yeah. Whatever. Jesus,

2:54

this guy's got to lay off

2:56

the whiskey. Yeah, that's who I want.

2:58

That's who I want commanding my

3:00

men in uniform. then, just add to

3:02

this, the Pope died, JD Man's

3:04

visit to Amos Jay, and the Pope

3:07

took his time to insult JD

3:09

Vance and his Easter, essentially, what JD

3:11

Vance represented in his Easter homily,

3:13

and then died soon after. But

3:15

one of the third things that just

3:17

came in is Christy Noem got her

3:19

bag snatched in DC, and it carried

3:21

$3 ,000 in cash she had in

3:23

it, which she accused the guy that

3:25

she sent to the El Salvador in

3:27

prison of being in MS -13 for holding

3:29

$1 ,500 in cash. Like, what was

3:31

she doing with cash? Like,

3:34

anyway, the stories, these people are just, I

3:36

feel, we're in a simulation, Scott. I'm just

3:38

so here for Christy Noem. It's such a,

3:40

it's such a Cinemax film waiting to happen.

3:42

She is getting a max. Yes. Anyway, she

3:44

lost her money. Sorry, Christy. You shouldn't be

3:46

carrying that much cash. Should we bring this

3:48

all back to me? Ask me what I

3:50

did this weekend. Oh, I will. Okay.

3:52

What did you do weekend? All this shit is

3:54

so upsetting and boring, Kara. Let's talk about the

3:56

dog. It's not. It's not boring. Let's talk about

3:58

the dog. So when I moved to Florida after

4:00

I lost everything in a way and my kid

4:02

didn't get into school because it was speech delayed

4:04

preschool, I'm like, that's it. We're out of here.

4:06

We're moving to Florida. We...

4:10

on a house, got it accepted, and then Goldman,

4:12

who at that time was managing my money because they

4:14

were investing in small entrepreneurs, came back and said,

4:16

last year you made negative one and a half million,

4:18

so don't qualify for a mortgage. So I had

4:20

to go home and tell my partner that we couldn't

4:22

get this house. I couldn't close because I couldn't

4:24

get a mortgage, which was really a nice conversation for

4:26

me. Anyways, we ended up

4:28

buying a home in Delray. We built this

4:30

home, and we had to

4:32

have a pool because we

4:35

had young boys, and every morning

4:37

on the weekends, we would...

4:39

up, make breakfast, and our

4:41

kids would immediately start jumping in the

4:43

pool with our dog Zoe. And I

4:45

would play, what is my favorite album

4:47

in the world? Is it my favorite

4:49

album? Other than The Damned at the

4:51

Torpedoes by Tom Petty. I played Morning

4:53

Phase by Beck. Have you ever listened

4:55

to this album? No. Oh, it

4:58

is so beautiful. I shall. It is so

5:00

beautiful. It won Best Album. It was probably

5:02

the biggest surprise of Best Album 12 or

5:04

14 years ago. It's an instrumental orchestral album.

5:06

Okay. Don't rush me through this. This is,

5:08

I'm revealing a little bit about my soul

5:10

to you. I'm trying to wait to see

5:12

where this is going. So last night, I

5:15

went to the Royal Albert Hall and I

5:17

saw Beck play with the Royal Albert Hall

5:19

Orchestra, which is one of the most talented

5:21

in the world. And

5:23

me and Bayotta just sat there

5:25

and cried for an hour a half,

5:27

remembering like our kids jumping into

5:29

the pool. Such a night. That

5:32

last night was literally the moment, also

5:34

the mushroom gummy self, but That

5:37

will be the moment, that's like

5:39

my crowning moment for London. And

5:41

it was such an outstanding

5:43

performance and took us back to

5:45

this really nice moment. Oh

5:48

my God, music is so powerful

5:50

that way. It is. But in

5:52

any case, do you wanna ask

5:54

me what I did this weekend?

5:57

Okay. Oh.

5:59

All right. What did you do this

6:01

weekend? We had Easter. We

6:03

did the Easter stuff. Did he rise?

6:05

Is he risen? He's risen.

6:07

Christ has died. Christ was

6:10

born. Christ died. You're more Jewish

6:12

than me right now. I'm

6:15

Catholic. I'm actually Catholic. You

6:17

can believe it. You know what I'm

6:19

excited for? Honestly, Conclave. Conclave. Like that movie,

6:21

did you see Conclave? I don't even

6:23

know what that is. It's a

6:25

movie. It was up for Oscars.

6:27

It's with Ray Fiennes. They're going to

6:29

have a conclave. It's when the

6:31

Cardinals get together and they all vote

6:33

and stuff. There's some interesting prospects

6:36

for New Pope, including a very young

6:38

one. I actually, I love, I

6:40

don't want to say I love Easter,

6:42

but Easter for me is something I got

6:44

to do. You know, I hide Easter

6:46

eggs. Where? Don't tell me. Because I don't

6:48

want anyone to know that I'm fucking

6:50

a chicken. Oh, my God. That's

6:53

good. Oh my God. I

6:55

had so many beautiful, my grandmother

6:57

used to make Easter foods in town.

6:59

He has risen. He has

7:02

risen. She went to Mass every day. She would

7:04

be very interested in who the new pope is.

7:06

Anyway, we'll see who the new pope is. He

7:08

was a good pope. He was a good pope.

7:10

You want to understand an organization that understands branding, burning

7:13

the ballots to create white

7:15

smoke that signifies a new pope,

7:17

the garb, the candles. The

7:19

outfits, yeah. The music, the artisanship. It's

7:21

almost like they're gay. It's very gay.

7:24

I'm so glad you said that. And what a shocker.

7:26

gay. And you can't sleep with women. And what do

7:28

you know? Oh, I know. What do you know? Conclave.

7:32

Conclave. You have to watch that movie. Do

7:34

yourself a favor and watch it with

7:36

your wife. It's a great movie. It has

7:38

Isabella Rossellini in it. And she's

7:40

a nun. Isabella Rossellini. She's a nun. She's

7:42

fantastic. She was up for an Oscar, I

7:44

think. Anyway, word of advice to the next

7:47

pope. Stay away from JD Vance. Anyway,

7:49

we have a lot to get to

7:51

today, including the Supreme Court handing Trump a

7:53

late night loss. Netflix

7:55

is staying strong, and market chaos yet

7:57

another Tesla setback this company is really

7:59

done for, I feel like. Signalgate,

8:02

too, has dropped, as we just

8:04

referenced. Defense Secretary Pete Hegg says, shared

8:06

attack plans for strikes in Yemen

8:08

in another group. SignalChat, including his wife,

8:10

brother, and personal lawyer. Heggseth is

8:12

blaming disgruntled former employees for leaking the

8:14

information about the use of his

8:16

chat. They are, in fact, Let

8:19

me tell you, these employees aren't being

8:21

quiet. One of them wrote a piece for

8:23

Politico saying how much BTS sucks. In

8:25

the group, there were around a dozen

8:27

people from Hexeth's personal and professional circles

8:29

and was named Defense Team Huddle. Hexeth

8:32

created the signal group himself and conducted

8:34

the chat from his private phone. It

8:37

just gets worse and worse. The details shared were

8:39

the same in the chat as Jeffrey Goldberg. It

8:41

looks like he cut and pasted. And who among

8:43

us has not cut and pasted more planned details

8:45

in all our group chats? I mean, Will

8:47

he go? Because now his people

8:49

are after him. His little, you know,

8:51

his little, his stormtroopers are after

8:54

him now. So do you think

8:56

he'll, he's finished or not? Or will

8:58

Trump not care? Well, I have a question

9:00

for you because what I saw, I

9:02

love news not noise with Jessica Yon.

9:05

Yeah. And she said, what's going

9:07

on? Here's a phenomenon in journalism. I'm

9:09

curious to get your take on this

9:11

called taking out the trash. And that

9:13

is when your own team turns on

9:15

you and starts leaking everything, you're done. There's

9:18

no way to plug the boat. Do you

9:20

think that's what's going on here? Yeah. I

9:22

mean, they're explicit. One of them, who's a

9:24

spokesperson, John, I think it's Bulyat or something

9:26

like that. He wrote a whole piece saying,

9:29

you know, still saying he loves Donald Trump,

9:31

blah, blah, blah, but Pete Hex has to

9:33

go. Essentially, that's what this piece said, which

9:35

was explicit. You don't often do see an

9:37

explicit one. Now, this four people in

9:39

this group chat, Dropped a dime on him

9:41

and you could I could tell two of

9:43

them the one two or three who were

9:45

just fired by him for Things he lied

9:47

about these people didn't do what he said

9:50

they did so he turned around and fucked

9:52

them and then they're like You're not fucking

9:54

us. We're fucking you and yeah I think

9:56

there's and then the the guy in his

9:58

piece said more to come which is like

10:00

probably around his drinking or whatever But it

10:02

sounds like a fucking disaster there. I don't

10:04

know how Trump can save this. He's got

10:06

to dump him I think there's no question.

10:08

He has to dump him but it's Trump

10:10

so I mean, any other president, absolutely, he'd

10:12

be gone by yesterday, but maybe he's thinking

10:15

the Pope will give him cover or the

10:17

Pope's death will give him cover. I don't

10:19

know. I just think he's done. He's done.

10:21

I thought that the last one. I thought

10:23

that was, I thought that Waltz was going

10:25

to get fired. Yeah. Trump

10:28

has a different behavior system. But I wonder

10:30

if at some point the Joint Chiefs go,

10:32

you realize at some point people are

10:35

going to question orders for fear that

10:37

that service to air missiles are waiting

10:39

for them because shit for brains over

10:41

here is is playing is is next

10:43

thing he's going to put it out

10:45

on his nintendo we what the attack

10:47

plans are i mean at some point

10:50

that's funny not funny At some point,

10:52

this begins to compromise the safety and

10:54

security of our men and women in

10:56

uniform, if it hasn't already. Private is

10:58

a private phone who knows where he

11:00

was. Like, come on. Are Can

11:02

you just appoint his brother to some

11:04

sensitive defense position? brother is in the

11:06

defense department. Another friend of

11:08

his, a personal lawyer, was on this thing.

11:11

Like, I wouldn't put my, oh, God, this

11:13

whole thing is just the ice. It

11:15

seems like there's a deeper story here because

11:17

they were signaling it, this one person. And

11:20

to use your name in public to

11:22

do it, this guy is either kamikaze or

11:24

knows something. Like, this is gonna get

11:26

worse. So they're gonna find an elegant way

11:28

to get him out because Trump apparently

11:30

likes the way he looks. He is a

11:32

handsome man. Very handsome. In a kind

11:34

of a cheesy, unctuous way. He's a handsome

11:36

man. I think Trump

11:39

likes his look and feel, but they're gonna... someone

11:41

else who's more competent in there. He says he can

11:43

do five sets of 47 push -ups. I can do

11:45

five of 35. You should go back to Fox

11:47

News. That'd be great. He should go back. That's where

11:49

he belongs. So, speaking of which,

11:51

the Google and the Justice Department, speaking of

11:53

people in trouble, are headed to court as we

11:55

tape Monday to argue on how to remedy

11:57

the company's online search monopoly. The outcome

11:59

could result Google being forced to sell

12:01

off Chrome and share more data with

12:03

competitors. Witnesses from Microsoft, Mozilla, Perplexity and

12:05

OpenAir are set to take the stand.

12:07

Closing arguments will be on May 30th.

12:09

coming by August, and for once I

12:12

would agree with Bill Barr, the

12:14

former Attorney General. Just

12:17

a sack of shit, really. In an op

12:19

-ed he wrote in The Wall Street Journal, all

12:21

the solicitude we express for free

12:23

markets is hollow talk without a willingness

12:25

to confront bad actors that use

12:27

illegal practices to squelch rivals and establish

12:29

monopoly power. Well done, Bill

12:31

Barr. No one says you're stupid. But

12:33

anyway, what do you think is going to

12:36

happen here? Because they also lost the

12:38

advertising case to just last week. So this

12:40

is the first case. So they're in

12:42

the remedies section of it. I

12:44

think they feel the wolves

12:46

are circling and it does feel

12:48

real this time. It feels,

12:50

you know, while you were sleeping,

12:53

you know, we're so focused on everything

12:55

else that it does feel like the momentum

12:57

here is pretty staggering. I

12:59

wonder if they're just so smart and

13:02

they have so many connections. I wonder

13:04

if they're gonna do a blood offering

13:06

and offer to spend something or offer

13:08

a pretty big fine. Like

13:10

some sort of big bargain. No, I

13:12

can't. I think it has to be

13:14

a remedy. I think it has to

13:16

be a spin off. But yeah, they,

13:18

my guess is they offer to do

13:21

something prophylactically because I think they see.

13:23

But what? I don't know. It

13:25

has to be a spin off. A spin of their. ad

13:27

group, a spin of what used to be

13:29

DoubleClick. I'd like to see a spin of YouTube

13:31

because I think it'd be so incredibly valuable.

13:34

I think it'd be good for shareholders and be

13:36

pretty clean. They don't seem to want to

13:38

spin any of them, not Mark Zuckerberg, not Amazon,

13:40

not any of them. Well, they get to

13:42

share data and it's also, it all

13:44

comes back to money care. This

13:46

is the point it all

13:48

reverse engineers do and it's the

13:50

following. Except for Zuckerberg,

13:52

I think, just at this point likes control, although

13:54

maybe that's not true. The way

13:56

a CEO gets compensated is the following. There

13:59

is a subcommittee of the board called

14:01

the Compensation Committee. And basically, there

14:03

to approve, to make sure that we have

14:05

enough options in a private company for new

14:07

hires, and also to deal with the hardest

14:09

part, and that is CEO's compensation. And

14:12

we hire a Towers parent and we pay them $200

14:14

,000 or $300 ,000 because we don't like to do any

14:16

actual work ourselves. And they come in and they say,

14:18

okay, New York Times company, you're

14:20

a $5 billion revenue company in a

14:22

media space, 50 % is

14:24

the exact, exact median.

14:27

of CEOs of media companies making $5

14:29

billion. And this is what happens. You

14:31

say, well, Janet Robinson's doing

14:33

her level best. We'll pay her at

14:35

60 % because we don't, it feels

14:37

weird psychologically to pay someone average. But

14:40

keep in mind, this is the

14:42

average of CEOs and $5 billion media

14:44

companies. So you pay them, generally speaking,

14:46

60%. But what that means is when

14:48

you're paying everyone 20 % more than

14:50

the medium, it means every three and

14:52

a half years, the compensation is doubling.

14:55

And what that means is in 40

14:57

years, we've gone from CEOs making 30

14:59

times average worker salaries to 300 or

15:01

400. Now, essentially,

15:03

what happens is that

15:05

metric that scale you

15:07

get is based on

15:09

the size of the

15:11

company. So when the

15:13

Bank of America CEO says, I want

15:16

to make more money, Even if

15:18

he's making shitty acquisitions that may not

15:20

pay off in the long term,

15:22

his compensation goes up based on the

15:24

size of the company. So there's

15:26

this disincentive or your de -incentivized a

15:28

little bit from shareholder value, although you

15:30

have options, but everybody wants to

15:33

sit on the iron throne of all

15:35

seven realms versus Westeros. And this

15:37

is why I have always highlighted Jeff

15:39

Bukus. He sold the magazine group

15:41

about two years ago before magazines went

15:43

into decline. He sold He sold

15:45

the cable companies before the before the

15:47

deployment and cable company he sold

15:49

time he sold time Warner about. Five

15:52

years before it went into structural

15:54

decline because he said, my job is

15:56

to get shareholders as much money

15:58

as possible, even if it means putting

16:00

myself out of a job. So

16:02

do you imagine they would offer this?

16:04

I don't think they will. I

16:06

don't think it's just because of money.

16:09

I think they just don't. They're

16:11

hoping to play the long game here

16:13

and just delay and delay and

16:15

obfuscate and delay. When, in fact,

16:17

they should have done it, so should Mark. They

16:19

should spin off YouTube. It would be a very

16:21

successful company. They need to spin

16:23

this thing off. They need to

16:25

just take their... lumps and do it,

16:27

because they clearly use data and

16:29

other advantages here to dominate the market.

16:32

And again, if Bill Barr and

16:34

Kara Swisher are in agreement, it is

16:36

a real moment in time, I

16:38

think. And real Republicans don't like this

16:40

stuff, right? The question is, is

16:42

Trump going to throw them some sort

16:44

of lifeline here? Although I'm not

16:46

quite sure what he can do, because

16:48

in the advertising case in Virginia,

16:50

there are state's attorneys general, but the

16:52

White House looks like it's continuing. with

16:56

Pam Bondi and I'm saying the White

16:58

House and Pam Bondi because there is no

17:00

independence between the Justice Department and the

17:02

White House anymore. So we'll

17:04

see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see.

17:06

And give me one quick prediction.

17:08

I think it's a prophylactic. I think

17:10

they're so focused on shareholder value.

17:12

I think a prophylactic spin of WhatsApp,

17:15

Instagram or YouTube. But WhatsApp is

17:17

over at Facebook. I know. Well, right.

17:19

Or so is Instagram. But this

17:21

is Google. Right, but isn't Instagram

17:23

isn't meta also that case has got more

17:25

that is going. Yes, that is also that is

17:27

also But that's in the midst of the

17:29

case that hasn't but go ahead. Yeah. Anyways,

17:31

you asked for a prediction I think we're gonna

17:34

we're gonna see a spin in the next

17:36

12 to 24 months I've been and by

17:38

the way, I've been saying that for a long

17:40

time and I've been wrong Yeah, well, we'll

17:42

see. They are definitely, it looks like Tompkins isn't

17:44

going to save him a lifeline, but we'll see. He might do

17:46

that if he gets enough money. Just for

17:48

people who don't know, the production of Tesla's

17:50

Model Y has been delayed. This company

17:52

has one mess after the next recently. The

17:55

Model Y, more affordable version of Tesla's

17:57

electric SUV, was promised in the first half

17:59

of this year, a penalty to boost

18:01

sales. Production plans, we push back a few

18:03

more months, though Tesla will probably still

18:05

plan to produce them, maybe. They

18:07

think it's because he wants to double down on

18:09

robo -taxies and and the Optimus Prime, he thinks

18:12

that's where the future is, not in these

18:14

cars. Obviously, people are running circles

18:16

around them, including Japan and China and

18:18

others. And legally, it

18:20

settled a racial discrimination lawsuit after a

18:22

black and flu -illeged harassment, gender -based

18:24

insults, and racial slurs on bathroom walls,

18:26

which are pretty heinous. Tesla's also

18:28

facing a proposed class -action suit claiming

18:31

this one is amazing, too, claiming it

18:33

speeds up odometers so vehicles fall

18:35

out of warranty faster. What a... Oh,

18:37

my God. It's just all over

18:39

the place. So his car company's given

18:42

a lot of yips. We're

18:44

taping this on Monday, Tesla reports

18:46

earnings on Tuesday afternoon. Any

18:48

predictions? Like it looks like he's not

18:51

interested in making cars anymore or he's

18:53

making other things. He wants to shift

18:55

Tesla. And I think you're going to

18:57

merge XAI, X and this

18:59

together in a big - Can

19:01

Tesla? Yeah. And

19:03

make it an AI company. Make it

19:05

an AI company. That would

19:07

be really interesting and use the

19:09

AI kind of halo as a

19:11

means of propping up the company.

19:14

Actually, I think that's really interesting. Look,

19:16

this company should be a $14 stock.

19:18

And I'm not suggesting you invest here

19:21

because it's a meme stock and there's

19:23

forces outside of your control. And now

19:25

that the SEC has been neutered, who

19:27

knows what kind of manipulation has taken place

19:29

here. But it used to be the

19:31

CEO from the street, the best thing

19:33

you could do was Kind

19:35

of under promise and over deliver

19:37

and there's still a market for

19:39

that in traditional mature companies it

19:42

unfortunately the the ground has

19:44

shifted a bit that in the

19:46

kind of they get till you

19:48

make an economy it's over promise

19:50

and Delivered just enough you

19:52

can under deliver but just enough

19:54

so for example some of the

19:56

promises Elon has made 2200 days

19:58

ago. He said there would be

20:00

1 million Tesla Robo taxis

20:02

within the year So seven years

20:05

ago, we said we'd have robotoxys

20:07

in one year. Nine

20:09

years ago, he said all superchargers

20:11

were being converted to solar. That

20:13

hasn't happened. Another

20:15

nine years ago, he said, since Tesla started charging

20:18

customers for self -driving software that he said would be

20:20

able to drive from L .A. to New York

20:22

City autonomously by the end of 2017. He

20:24

said that that would happen by the end

20:26

of 2017. Yeah. He sent it to me on

20:28

stage at some point. Nearly eight years since

20:30

the second generation Tesla Roadster was announced, you can

20:33

still pre -order one on Tesla's website for 45K.

20:35

That's interesting. Some of the

20:37

promises that did come to fruition, but

20:39

the details were still a little fuzzy.

20:41

The Cybertruck was scheduled for production in 2021

20:43

and was supposed to cost $40 ,000. It

20:46

came to market in late 2023

20:48

and the base model was over

20:50

60K. And

20:52

it's a heinous looking vehicle. Yeah, it

20:55

makes no fucking sense. They're

20:58

currently getting hit with a

21:00

lawsuit concerning the alleged speeding up

21:02

of odometer readings. Tesla does

21:04

not have incentives to fib the

21:06

odometer numbers. Warranties expire faster,

21:08

meaning less Tesla -covered repairs and

21:10

extending the alleged range of the

21:13

Tesla, which is I

21:15

remember when I was buying used cars, I thought,

21:17

why don't people just fuck with the Spedometer?

21:19

They did, that was a big thing. It's fucking

21:21

with Spedometer. But that's literally kind of like

21:23

fraud on a difference for a masculine level. It

21:25

was like, do not ever accuse anyone of

21:27

fucking with the Spedometer, you know, the Spedometer or

21:29

whatever it is. So like,

21:31

I don't, I don't, I think he's

21:33

lost interest in it. I think you're, you're...

21:35

speculation that they might combine it all

21:37

into one company is really interesting. I hadn't

21:39

thought, I hadn't considered that. Because he

21:41

hid hiding X's shitty business within the X

21:44

line. right. By the way, they don't

21:46

have that many customers. What is their revenues?

21:48

Open AI is making $5 billion, $6

21:50

billion at least, you know, and actually growing.

21:53

They have to have customers, you know, it'll

21:55

just have this halo. So he's moving it

21:57

to a new meme stock, just a better

21:59

meme stock from, because the Tesla meme stock

22:01

isn't going so well. That meme is over.

22:03

And then he'll take, and then He's

22:06

getting all kinds of contracts. He might

22:08

be in charge of Golden Dome, all

22:10

this other stuff. And so he's got

22:12

better fish to fry, better women to

22:14

impregnate, I think, here. But anyway, let's

22:16

go on a quick break. When we

22:18

come back, the Supreme Court's late night

22:20

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24:50

pleasure. Scott,

24:58

we're back. The Trump administration has

25:00

a busy few days. Let's dig in

25:02

for a few. The Supreme Court handed

25:04

down a rare overnight order on Saturday,

25:06

blocking Trump from deporting a group of

25:08

Venezuelan immigrants in Texas. The court's order

25:10

bars the government for now from using

25:13

the Alien Enemies Act, a wartime law

25:15

from 1798. This was a 7 -2

25:17

ruling with Thomas and Alito in the

25:19

minority. Alito wrote in his dissent

25:21

the court's decision to intervene was not

25:23

necessary or appropriate. The Trump administration quickly

25:25

asked the Supreme Court to roll. back

25:27

the decision saying the order was premature

25:29

as lower courts had not properly weighed

25:32

in. It's none of his

25:34

business what they're going to do. Actually, they're working. This

25:36

guy is putting them to work in terms

25:38

of making decisions. they

25:41

might try to keep Trump in check,

25:43

or at least they're at least moving to

25:45

do so even before things like that.

25:47

Also, the Trump administration appears to be preparing

25:49

for a drastic overhaul of the State

25:51

Department, a plan described by one U .S.

25:53

diplomat as bonkers crazy pants, and that's a

25:55

technical term, a draft that's

25:57

an ambassadorial term, bonkers crazy pants, that's

25:59

all the name of Scots in

26:02

my band, a draft of an executive

26:04

order reveals plans to shut down

26:06

embassies across Africa and eliminate State Department

26:08

offices. focusing on climate change, refugee,

26:10

and human rights. So the entire continent

26:12

of Africa and anything nice for

26:14

people. The draft also calls for ending

26:16

a foreign service exam, laying out

26:19

new hiring criteria in line with President's

26:21

foreign policy vision, which means you

26:23

have to agree with him. Secretary

26:25

of State Marco Rubio responded to New

26:27

York Times' report on the overhaul on ex

26:29

-writing, this is fake news. Oh,

26:32

little Marco. If

26:34

these plans do come to fruition, we'll see

26:36

how it affects our standing abroad. And

26:38

lastly, and then you can comment all these

26:40

things, Scott, the White House is reporting

26:42

looking into new policies that will incentivize more

26:44

Americans to get married and have kids

26:46

according to the New York Times. Some proposals

26:48

for those policies include a $5 ,000 cash

26:50

bonus given to every American mother after

26:52

delivery. I wish I got

26:54

that. Government -funded programs educating women

26:56

on their menstrual cycles to better

26:58

understand when they conceive. I

27:01

wouldn't be against it, except it

27:03

feels very controlling. Giving the

27:05

National Medal of Motherhood to moms with six

27:07

or more kids, I'm almost there. As we

27:10

discussed, this is a cause that's near and

27:12

dear to the hearts of Elon Musk, JD

27:14

Vance, Conservative Heritage Foundation, for his part. Trump

27:16

recently coined himself the fertilization president. He's

27:18

also pitching for the idea of baby

27:20

bonuses for a while. Let's listen to

27:22

what he said at CPAC in 2023.

27:25

We will support baby

27:28

bonuses. for a

27:30

new baby boom. How does that sound? That

27:32

sounds pretty good. I want a baby

27:34

boom. Oh,

27:38

you men are so lucky out there, you're

27:40

so lucky. You

27:42

are so lucky, men. He's

27:44

so gross. He's so incredibly gross.

27:46

Anyway, I like your thoughts. Let's

27:48

start with the first, which is

27:50

this Supreme Court situation briefly. Go

27:52

ahead. Well, one of the two

27:54

pillars of the way we approach

27:57

justice or how we prosecute

28:00

or acquit or deliver justice

28:02

and some general themes. And

28:04

Alito gave a very eloquent

28:06

speech on this. I

28:09

apologize, it was Justice Scalia

28:11

saying that every nation has a

28:13

really powerful bill of rights.

28:15

And we keep focusing on when

28:17

these decisions come down. But

28:19

that's not the bigger issue. Russia

28:21

has a bill of rights that says you

28:23

are entitled to free speech and anyone who

28:25

gets in the way of your free speech

28:28

should be immediately imprisoned. Where

28:30

a nation's metal and justice

28:33

system is proven or dissolves is

28:35

your willingness to enforce those

28:37

bill of rights. And that's

28:39

where we are now, is that for the first time

28:41

in our nation, it used to be when the

28:43

Supreme Court or lower court made a decision, it

28:45

was just a grievement it was going to be enforced. and

28:48

that the president wouldn't think of turning

28:50

back planes against a court order. And

28:53

we're giving the president credit right now.

28:55

It's almost as if we're saying, see,

28:57

he's actually listening to the Supreme Court

28:59

because we no longer have that certainty.

29:02

To me, that's really scary. The other

29:04

thing is generally speaking, we have

29:06

decided with our justice system that it

29:08

is worth the trade -off, and there's

29:10

always a trade -off, to have some

29:12

people who are guilty, be free, OJ,

29:16

versus imprisoning

29:18

innocent people. Joe Rogan just said this

29:20

yesterday, but go ahead. Who did? Joe

29:23

Rogan. Really? He likes due process. Yes,

29:25

he did. He said it's better than

29:27

that 100 people that are guilty get

29:29

off if one innocent person gets convicted.

29:31

I think that was this. And right

29:33

now, I can hear a lot of

29:35

Americans saying, okay, now do black people,

29:37

because I think there's a lot of

29:40

black Americans who've been incarcerated unfairly. But

29:42

those are kind of two pretty significant

29:44

tenants. And those have been, so the

29:46

notion that this Republican talking

29:48

point of, well, yeah, it's worth it.

29:50

If there's a couple people in El

29:52

Salvador that shouldn't be, it's worth the

29:54

general progress we've made. Meanwhile, they're 60

29:56

minutes at 75 % of these folks

29:58

haven't committed a crime. So

30:00

I think the bigger issue is

30:03

we just have to, at this point,

30:05

make sure that these decisions are

30:07

upheld because we have a strong man

30:09

who's kind of picking and choosing

30:11

it feels like what decisions he's going

30:13

to decide to comply with. In

30:15

terms of the I

30:18

do believe, I

30:21

mean, I think of a unifying theory

30:23

of everything around what the democratic message

30:25

should be, and I think it should

30:27

be the following, that anyone under the

30:29

age of 40 who works, should be

30:31

able to form a household, buy a

30:33

home, or at least afford rent, meet

30:35

somebody, and afford to have children. So

30:37

minimum wage of 25 bucks an hour,

30:40

national service, 7 million homes in 10

30:42

years. do away with capital gain

30:44

stacks and attack structure that transfers money from

30:46

young to old, universal child tax credit. There's a

30:48

ton of actual programs. I'd like to see

30:50

the Democrats actually put forward instead of fucking whining

30:52

all the time. But here's the

30:54

bottom line. It's about economic prosperity

30:56

such that if the 60 % of 30 -year -olds

30:58

have had a kid, now it's 27%, want

31:00

to take it back to 40, that's fine.

31:03

But at the same time, if they decide

31:05

they want to not have kids and spend

31:07

that money on brunch in St. Bart's, that's

31:09

their right. So I want

31:11

a program that takes the people under

31:13

the age of 40 that are 24 %

31:15

less wealthy than they were 40 years

31:17

ago and not the 72 % wealthier

31:19

of people over the age of 70

31:21

and levels up young people and gives

31:23

them a chance to meet each other. and

31:26

gives them economic viability, but only rewarding

31:28

them for some sort of kind of weird

31:30

propagation. The reality Having babies, right. It's

31:32

a good thing to have babies. I mean,

31:34

I've had four kids. I love children. It's

31:36

that it should be one is your choice

31:38

if you want or don't want them. But

31:41

this idea that you didn't put anything else

31:43

in place, like why isn't he talking about

31:45

daycare if you really want people to have

31:47

kids? Give national daycare

31:49

to everybody hundred good daycare like

31:52

if you really want to have kids

31:54

This is very similar to the

31:56

abortion thing if you really want people

31:58

not to have as many abortions

32:00

Make it so it's easy to have

32:02

children perhaps and maybe people would

32:04

make different decisions It's the same they

32:06

never want to solve and they

32:08

also don't like the kids after they're

32:10

born, right? They don't help any

32:12

of those kids that get born in

32:15

problematic homes and everything else. So

32:17

all they want is, and

32:20

you can see it, his giveaway was, uh -huh, man, you're

32:22

going to get to fuck. I think that's really what

32:24

he was saying. He was saying that.

32:26

I don't think it. So this

32:28

idea of baby bonuses is... Fine,

32:30

that seems fine. The

32:32

idea of IVF being inexpensive, great.

32:36

It's all like individual, but it's not followed

32:38

by anything that really matters to people

32:40

who have kids, which is daycare or childcare,

32:42

which is important at every income level,

32:44

by the way. Even if you can afford

32:46

it, it's difficult. Same thing with elder

32:48

care, by the way, on the other side,

32:50

all so hard. But

32:52

they don't want to do any of this

32:54

thing. They just want like men to like have

32:56

14 babies, Elon, but what do you care

32:59

if you're a shitty father, right? None of that

33:01

matters. So I don't,

33:03

you know, it just for people

33:05

to realize that these expanded

33:07

child tax credit would be. or

33:10

a baby bonus to require an act of

33:12

Congress, by the way. But like

33:14

expand child tax credit, that's a great idea

33:16

too. That's right. But just the other

33:18

things matter much, much more. And Scott is

33:20

100 % right. If you don't want to

33:22

have kids, you should not be like, you

33:25

kind of, do you remember when people

33:27

were giving money to people, giving people

33:29

their college for giving the loans? Why

33:32

does people who have babies get it and

33:34

people that don't get it? There's that moment.

33:37

Right? Like, why do they get money? Because we

33:39

want them to have babies? That's kind of sick.

33:41

You need young people who are economically viable. And

33:43

if you want to talk about a baby boom,

33:45

you got a reverse engineer to why the baby

33:47

boom happened. And effectively, it

33:49

was the following. We don't like to talk

33:51

about this because some of it sounds

33:53

politically off -putting, but seven million men came

33:56

home for more. And they had demonstrated heroism

33:58

and uniform and they were fit. And

34:00

we put a bunch of money in middle

34:02

-class homes through the GI Bill, through FHA

34:04

loans. And we said, okay, young people,

34:06

here's a bunch of attractive men. Quite frankly,

34:08

we aren't producing enough attractive men for

34:11

the women who have ascended. And we should

34:13

do nothing, including some sort of weird

34:15

tax credit that somehow pulls women

34:17

out of the workforce and how we

34:19

should do nothing to get in the way

34:21

of women's incredible ascent. What we need

34:23

to do is lift up men who quite

34:25

frankly aren't keeping pace. And the way

34:27

you lift up men is by lifting up

34:29

all people under the age of 40

34:31

and giving them a chance to meet, giving

34:33

them a chance to fall in love,

34:35

giving them economic viability. We

34:37

have to get them together. Do you

34:39

realize, and I know this sounds 40

34:42

% of nightclubs in London have

34:44

gone away since COVID. If

34:46

people aren't going into work, they're not going into

34:48

bars, they're not going to church. Where

34:50

does a man or where does a woman

34:52

Who has a much finer filter for sex,

34:54

because quite frankly the downside of sex is

34:56

so much greater, ever have the opportunity to

34:58

let a man demonstrate excellence. Like

35:01

where, if you talk to people who have been

35:03

married longer than 30 years, 75 % of them

35:05

say that one was much more interested in the

35:07

other in the beginning and was always the man

35:09

that was more interested. Women are just more choosy

35:11

for very strong instinctual and biological reasons. So

35:13

where does the man have an opportunity

35:15

to demonstrate excellence? And now you have

35:17

men who, quite frankly, aren't demonstrating excellence.

35:19

As women have ascended the earnings ladder

35:22

and can contribute more to a relationship,

35:24

men have not filled that gap. You

35:26

know what have had more babies, JD

35:28

Vance, in case you're interested. And by

35:30

the way, I have more children than

35:32

you again. Let me stress that is

35:34

$25. Hello. Who's

35:38

like that would be a baby

35:40

boom that would go housing 100 would

35:42

cause a baby if you really want

35:44

to do it We are current we

35:46

should run the fucking government Scott Calis

35:48

seven million seven million new homes manufactured

35:50

homes that cost 30 to 50 % less

35:53

than homes built on site $25 an

35:55

hour minimum wage national service do

35:57

away the long -term capital gains More night

35:59

quite frankly subsidies to places businesses whether

36:01

it's put shack whether it's

36:03

whether it's bars to get young people

36:05

together, whether it's nonprofits, sports

36:07

leagues, anything that gets

36:10

people together so they can go, you

36:12

know what, I didn't like him

36:14

at first, but he's funny. He's

36:16

nice to his parents. We

36:18

know how to get people to fuck. Scott

36:20

and Cara know how to get people to fuck.

36:22

I'm going to go out with a group

36:24

of people. I'm going to have a few drinks

36:26

and maybe make a few bad decisions in

36:28

my payoff. The most rewarding thing in life is

36:30

the opportunity to partner with

36:33

someone fall in love and raise children with

36:35

a competent person and have a government

36:37

that has wind in your sales to be

36:39

economically viable so you're not fucking stressed

36:41

all the time. My point is we need

36:43

to level up young people. I don't

36:45

like programs that target specifically one gender because

36:47

I think it gets politicized. We need

36:49

to level up all young people. Yes, I

36:51

agree. Can I ask you a question?

36:53

Of course. So were you the one that

36:55

was, you know, you said after 30

36:57

years they say which one liked one more?

37:00

Your wife liked. you less than

37:02

you liked her correct at the beginning. I'm

37:04

just guessing. Is that right? I'll give you the

37:06

exactly what happened. You've told me the story,

37:08

but go ahead. I saw someone wearing nothing but

37:10

a thong who was wearing at a pool

37:12

party at the Raleigh Hotel. And

37:14

I promised myself, I'm going to speak

37:16

to that person before I leave to

37:18

that woman. And she was with another

37:20

woman and another guy. And without the

37:22

benefit of alcohol in the

37:24

light of the midday sun, I thought I'm gonna go

37:26

up and I'm gonna introduce myself. And I'm like, you

37:28

can make all sorts of reasons not to take your

37:30

shot. It's like, how do you do it? What do

37:32

you say? So I went out to the valet, I

37:34

got so angry myself, I went back in and I

37:36

walked right up to him and I said, hi, I'm

37:38

Scott. And I introduced myself, where

37:41

are you guys from? 18 months later, our

37:43

son's middle name is Raleigh. But I'm saying

37:45

she liked you. Well, I'm

37:47

going. My story is obviously take too long. And I

37:49

said to them, I hung out with them that day. And

37:51

I said, come to my place and I'll make you

37:53

dinner. I have no idea how to make dinner. So I

37:55

called George and Holly Mattson, who I was sharing a

37:57

place and continue them in Miami with. And I said to

37:59

Holly, it was out on a boat with George. I

38:01

said, you need to get home and make dinner for me

38:03

and these three people because I'm really into this one

38:05

ridiculously cool hot woman. And we had a

38:07

few drinks. were having a great dinner. We sat down on the

38:09

couch and I sat down across from her and I said,

38:12

look, I'm like, I pride myself

38:14

on my transparency. This is exactly what happened.

38:16

There's no adjectives or embellishments. I said,

38:18

look, I pride myself on my

38:20

transparency. I feel a really nice vibe with you

38:22

and I'm super interested in you. And I

38:24

just feel a really nice connection with you. Do

38:26

you feel the same? And she paused and

38:28

thought about it and she said, no.

38:31

And the worst part was the pause so

38:34

she can think about it. But

38:37

she looked around and paused and went

38:39

like she really wanted to give me an

38:41

honest answer She was moved by my

38:43

transparency. She's like let me think no No

38:45

No. And then the next weekend, I

38:47

lied to her and said I was going

38:49

to a party. It was actually the

38:51

rehearsal party for my friends, George and Holly

38:53

Matts in a rehearsal party. And she

38:55

showed up in jeans and a Led Zeppelin

38:57

t -shirt and she was about to kill

38:59

me because I lied to her. It

39:01

was a rehearsal dinner. And we

39:03

spent every weekend together for the next, you know,

39:05

three years. Well, there you go. You

39:07

worked on it. Well, that's good. You know, with

39:09

Amanda and I, it was equal. I have to say

39:12

it was equal. Although I did say to her,

39:14

I can't believe she's actually agreed to marry me. I

39:17

said, I'm beachfront proper. I was single for a very

39:19

short amount of time. I haven't been single since I've

39:21

been in. I remember you were dating someone and then

39:23

you weren't and then you were dating Amanda. I don't

39:25

want to talk about that relationship, but

39:27

Amanda, we went out right away, like immediately

39:29

after we were fixed up by friends

39:31

of ours on a blind date. We're fixed

39:33

up on a blind date, but I

39:36

literally said to her something very seen after,

39:38

like we started seeing each other. It

39:40

was very equal, I have to say, was

39:42

that I was beachfront property and she

39:44

better cry. Do

39:47

you like that? Beachfront property? I know.

39:49

Is that the most obnoxious thing ever? Yeah,

39:51

that's pretty bad. I'm beachfront property. You

39:53

better grab it now. It's going fast, going

39:55

fast. I'm like a bad condo that's

39:57

been repossessed in an auction. You're

39:59

lucky to have me. Can I

40:01

have a very brief thing on this

40:03

bonkers crazy pants? Getting rid of

40:05

our African embassies across Africa and

40:08

also cutting all the things that make

40:10

us Americans, which are refugee help,

40:12

human rights, climate change, et cetera.

40:14

Any thoughts? Look, I don't... view

40:16

is that with brand, what is

40:19

a brand? This is a brand,

40:21

right? A brand is unearned margin

40:23

because of soft power, the promise

40:25

of what you will get if

40:27

you buy this brand. And

40:29

you got to deliver against the performance. And

40:31

the promise is what I would

40:34

refer to in terms of aid overseas

40:36

is soft power. people

40:38

feel good about us. When you see the, when

40:40

you see an American embassy, you know, it's going

40:43

to be well staffed, you know, they're polite. You know

40:45

that if you're an American abroad and you get

40:47

mistreated, you go straight to the embassy. And

40:49

the fact that we're reducing our soft

40:51

power all over the world, all that

40:53

means is a reduction in the promise reduction,

40:56

our brand, which will reduce our unearned

40:58

margin across our business relationships, our safety. Do

41:00

you think how many people, and the

41:02

problem is you're not even going to

41:05

realize how much damage damage it does.

41:07

Do you realize how many people call

41:09

our intelligence services when they suspect a

41:11

terrorist cell somewhere? They call American embassies

41:13

because they're like, you know what, those

41:15

are nice people. They're the good guys

41:17

and we're losing that. This is the

41:19

reduction in soft power across America. Also

41:22

across Africa, we've just decided to

41:24

give Africa over to China. Which,

41:26

by the way, has been a

41:28

hotbed for quite frankly, it's

41:31

not only

41:33

playing Not playing offense America's

41:35

probably Africa likely will have the greatest

41:37

GDP growth over the next 40 or

41:40

50 years. It's just kind of time,

41:42

right? And it has

41:44

huge unbelievable human potential Unbelievable natural

41:46

resources at some point Africa is

41:48

gonna have its moment and we

41:50

want to be in there in

41:52

establishing strong business and military relationships

41:55

You know in addition, there are

41:57

some hotbeds of terrorist activity in

41:59

Africa and we want African Nations

42:01

and governments cooperating with us it all comes

42:04

down to the same thing to believe that you

42:06

can build a bubble around your shores is

42:08

just naive I've always believed you not only take

42:10

the fight To foreign nations, you

42:12

take the empathy and the goodwill. It has

42:14

to be a carrot and a stick. Yeah, I

42:16

agree. This is it's an astonishing thing. We're

42:18

just giving up literally. I know it sounds dumb.

42:20

Do you remember like sort of the image

42:22

I have of you, this, you know, Hershey

42:25

bars by GIs and stuff like that, like

42:27

all this stuff we did. It sounds like it's

42:29

such a trope, but it's so like we

42:31

are the good week. We've not always been the

42:33

good guys, but we're the good guys. And

42:35

now the Chinese are going to be the good

42:37

guys. And they are not the good guys,

42:39

by the way. It's just grotesque. Anyway, let's

42:41

go on a quick break. We come

42:44

back. China's latest salvo in the trade war

42:46

and Netflix. Ryan

42:51

Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

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by location. Excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Scott,

44:24

we're back. China is warning countries not

44:26

to make any trade deals with the U

44:28

.S. at China's expense and is threatening retaliation

44:30

against countries that do. They're doing the

44:32

carrot and stick situation. China said it was

44:34

responding to the foreign media reports that

44:36

the Trump administration was trying to pressure other

44:38

countries as a negotiating tactic, harming the

44:40

interests of others for one's own selfish and

44:42

short -sighted gains, as like negotiating with a

44:44

tiger for its skin. Oh, that's

44:46

an interesting metaphor. The Chinese Ministry of Commerce

44:48

said in a statement, they went on to

44:50

say, in the end, it will only lead

44:53

to a lose -lose situation. Why do the Chinese

44:55

seem so reasonable at this moment? What

44:57

does it make of the strategy? I

44:59

mean, obviously, they're going to have to threaten,

45:01

too, because we're threatening, presumably. Our threats

45:03

mean less and less. I do think that

45:05

one of Obama's biggest mistakes was not

45:07

responding when Syria crossed that red line. You

45:10

should make very, very... Few threats,

45:12

but what they should be is

45:14

not threats. They should be promises

45:16

and Unfortunately now we're just we're

45:18

threatening everybody and so no one takes

45:20

this seriously though I just don't

45:22

think we have there's no veracity

45:24

with our threats it because it's

45:26

like well He didn't threaten Canada,

45:28

but he came after them for

45:30

no apparent reason and then when

45:32

he threatens to ban tiktok He does

45:34

Harvard. It was a mistake. We

45:36

are not a serious people. It

45:38

just doesn't We have absolutely no

45:40

authority or reliability. We

45:43

come home every day to

45:45

a drunk manic depressive bipolar mate.

45:47

We don't know who we're

45:49

waking up against or we don't

45:51

know who we're waking up

45:53

with every morning. And the

45:55

fact that any nation is going to

45:57

respond and back down other than saying,

45:59

oh, okay, sorry. And wow, have you

46:01

lost weight, Mr. President? And then to

46:03

just back channels to China and say,

46:05

hey, we really should have those talks

46:08

we were talking about, about lowering trade

46:10

barriers. In China, oh my God, they

46:12

must be licking their chops, as is Vietnam, as

46:14

is Turkey, as is the EU.

46:16

The EU is, I mean, obviously

46:19

this hurts them. But they're making all sorts

46:21

of, they're doing all sorts, they're working

46:23

overtime. They're doing all sorts of trade deals

46:25

right now. Yeah, and they still don't want

46:27

to turn their back on us if they

46:29

don't have to. Anyway, amid all the economic

46:31

turmoil and confusion, one company that is

46:33

weathering the storm is finding people worried about

46:35

this Netflix. The company reported in its Q1

46:37

earnings last week, beating revenue and earnings targets.

46:39

And the letter to shareholders Netflix said

46:41

the revenue and profit growth outlook remained solid.

46:44

It's not making any changes to its forecast

46:46

for the year. Look, this is

46:48

the one company that stays Going even

46:50

despite the volatility because it requires I

46:52

would imagine maybe making they make a

46:54

lot of films elsewhere But a lot

46:56

of their stuff is sort of tariff

46:58

protected in a weird way. Correct. Yeah,

47:00

I don't see how it's subject I

47:02

mean eventually eventually it'll impact them but

47:04

I mean this is This is arguably

47:06

I mean we always say this about

47:08

a lot of companies but one of

47:10

the best managed companies in the world

47:12

But arguably the best pivot in the

47:14

world they were sending out DVDs a

47:16

real insight was they said The

47:18

real insight was the best broadband in

47:21

the world is the US postal system. The

47:23

rather than trying to send a movie

47:25

over pipes, send it in the mail. And

47:27

then when the pipes caught up to

47:29

the mail, they said, we're pivoting. And that

47:31

was the ultimate pivot and it worked. They

47:34

then adopted a page out of Bezos

47:36

playbook and said, if we campaign a

47:38

really compelling vision for this company and

47:40

deliver against it, On an incremental basis,

47:42

we can attract more cheap capital, which

47:44

gives us more and more money. And

47:46

we're just going to literally outspend. We're

47:48

going to overwhelm the competition with capital,

47:50

and they spend $18 billion a year.

47:52

And then when they kind of pulled

47:54

ahead and it was clear no one

47:56

was going to be able to caption

47:58

in terms of capital, they then globalize

48:00

the industry and did to LA what

48:02

Tokyo did to Detroit. And that is

48:05

they moved huge production facilities overseas. And

48:07

now they can, on $18

48:09

billion in content, which is

48:11

what... Five to eight

48:13

times what HBO Apple all of them

48:15

spent Apple. I think spends five billion

48:17

They can spend if they're spending three

48:19

times what another company spends in gross

48:21

dollar volume They can produce four times

48:24

the content because that's just a better

48:26

managed company about I think now almost

48:28

40 or 50 % or maybe even more

48:30

of their capital is spent overseas in

48:32

production than spent domestically. Yeah, they really

48:34

were smart about that. They also brought

48:36

shows from there, either remade them or

48:38

use them from there. They were very

48:40

good about the globalization. Let

48:42

me say, let me give kudos to

48:44

Reed Hastings, who has stepped down as

48:47

executive, he was executive

48:49

chairman. He was very quite

48:51

involved to chairman of the board. I

48:53

met Reed when he was moving those

48:55

DVDs very early in Netflix's history. And

48:57

there had been a series of companies

48:59

like this, if you recall, that were

49:02

trying to do this, what he was

49:04

doing. I did a very famous

49:06

interview. I think it was 2007, maybe,

49:08

with him, the head of Hulu at the

49:10

time, Jason Kylar, and Chad Hurley, who's

49:12

the head of YouTube. And we

49:14

were We were put down in

49:16

a basement, and I always thought that

49:19

these three, especially Reed Hastings, really

49:21

had a vision for the future. But

49:23

he really, even though he's dropping

49:25

his status, he's the pivotal person who

49:27

made a lot of the decision.

49:29

And he's smartly followed with executives that

49:31

he has cycled out some that

49:33

haven't worked, even though if they did

49:35

well for a while, I

49:38

have to say he really has to

49:40

go down as one of the greatest.

49:42

Agreed. But I mean, and kudos to

49:44

Reed, you brought in... Sarandos and Ted,

49:46

whose job as a young man, he

49:48

ran six or eight video rental stores.

49:50

I mean, the guy just has a

49:52

feel for content. And

49:54

they now are leveraging their

49:56

platform. They're going into

49:58

video games, they're going into

50:01

sports, they're going into, this

50:03

is a scary one, they're going into podcasting.

50:06

The really interesting thing would be the

50:08

clash of the Titans, the celebrity

50:10

death match would be if Alphabet spun

50:12

YouTube. I mean,

50:14

the war between Netflix and

50:17

HBO and Disney, and

50:19

that's not the war. That's over. The

50:21

war, if there is one, is between Netflix

50:23

and YouTube. That's why they should spin

50:25

it off. By the way, YouTube happens to

50:27

be bigger, by the way. 13 % versus

50:29

Netflix at 11. Yeah. Anyway, you're right.

50:31

And who would be the CEO of that?

50:33

I mean, they would try to get

50:35

serandos, obviously, right? They try to grab him,

50:38

but... Of YouTube? Yeah. Oh, I think

50:40

Neil Mohan's done an incredible job. I'm just

50:42

wondering if they would go. But that

50:44

would be great. He has. And before that,

50:46

another person who I had great regard

50:48

for, Susan Wojcicki, who died, also did a

50:50

great job there while she was running

50:52

it. And she was one of the very

50:54

earliest, in fact, one of the earliest

50:56

Google executives. They started Google in her garage.

50:59

So yeah, you're right. YouTube versus Netflix

51:01

is the story. It's really the story.

51:03

Anyway, all right, Scott, one more quick

51:05

break. We'll be back for wins and

51:07

fails. This

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52:11

florist of Mother's Day. Hi,

52:13

folks. This is Kara Swisher. This week

52:15

on my podcast, On With Kara Swisher,

52:17

I'm speaking with philanthropist, businesswoman, and woman's

52:20

rights advocate, Melinda French Gates, on

52:22

how she's refocused after her divorce from tech

52:24

mogul Bill Gates. We talk about why investing

52:26

in women in politics and business is playing

52:28

the long and smart game, and we discuss

52:30

her new memoir the next day. My mom

52:32

used to say to me as I was

52:35

growing up, set your own agenda or someone

52:37

else will. I know society

52:39

is better off. when women are

52:41

in positions of power. I really

52:43

enjoy this conversation because it's an

52:45

interesting moment where women in technology

52:47

are having much more of an

52:49

important impact than men who are

52:51

still moving fast and breaking things.

52:53

Have a listen to On with

52:55

Kara Swisher wherever you get your

52:57

podcasts. Okay,

53:04

Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.

53:06

Why don't you go first this week?

53:08

You have an easier time disassociating than

53:10

me. I've been so stressed and upset

53:12

about everything that's going on that to

53:14

just be at the Royal Albert Hall,

53:16

listening to beautiful music that reminded me.

53:18

I think it was Gloria Vanderbilt, Anderson

53:20

Cooper's mother, who said that the happiest

53:23

time in her life or the happiest time she

53:25

believes in anyone's life is when you're, when

53:27

you have young kids at home. And I do

53:29

think I'll look back on that and look

53:31

at that as the happiest time in my life.

53:33

But feeling that music and that venue, it

53:35

was just so extraordinary and just absolutely gave me

53:38

an hour of peace and emotion to share

53:40

with someone I care great deal about in the

53:42

content. I mean, we just knew exactly how

53:44

we were both feeling. I felt very connected to

53:46

London. I felt very connected to music. And

53:49

it was just a nice hour of

53:51

respite. Does anything else remind you of

53:53

that? Like Saul was wearing this shirt

53:55

that Louie used to wear this weekend

53:57

and that gave me the chills in

53:59

a good way. You know what is

54:01

incredible is a woman who used to

54:03

work with me at L2. I

54:06

don't think I'm speaking out of school. I wouldn't say

54:08

her name, but she just took on a strategy

54:10

role at Apples and she's overseeing memories. You

54:12

know that, do you have those things that pop up? Yeah,

54:14

oh my gosh that I'm you know, as

54:17

you know, I'm passing with death. I'm just

54:19

gonna play that shit over and over and

54:21

live my life again Those that does music

54:23

does sing certain people does I mean that's

54:25

and the piece of advice I would give

54:27

to anyone especially men who have a tough

54:29

time with this You know from the I've

54:31

said this from the age of 29 to

54:33

45 I didn't cried and cry when I

54:35

got divorced and in crime on my mom

54:37

died I just kind of forgot how and

54:39

It is a real gift to in

54:42

a practice, an effort to really lean into

54:44

your emotions. If you hear something funny, force

54:46

you to say, this is one the things

54:48

I really like about you. You laugh out

54:50

loud. You have a wonderful laugh and it's

54:52

infectious. And it gives everyone else

54:54

permission to laugh and it just makes everything a little lighter.

54:58

If something upsets you or it moves

55:00

you sentimentally, let yourself weep, let yourself

55:02

cry, because it informs what's important to

55:04

you. When you see a piece of

55:06

art or a piece of creative that

55:08

inspires you, Sometimes I even rewind

55:10

it 15 or 30 seconds and say, wow, this is

55:12

such a wonderful scene. I want to watch it

55:14

or I listen to music. Really lean

55:16

into your emotions because our advantage is the

55:18

species. You're a crier. You're crier.

55:20

Oh, I cry at the drop of a hat. You do.

55:22

I cry at the drop hat. I'm scared to watch certain

55:24

movies with you. And it's one of the things I like.

55:26

I like the messy part of myself. My

55:28

kids see me cry all the time.

55:31

Your fail. Excuse me, your fail. Don't

55:33

rush me through my personal parables as

55:35

I open myself to you and you

55:37

jab. You jab. But

55:40

my lesson here is our advantage as

55:42

a species is our cooperation and the way

55:44

we cooperate as we communicate a close

55:46

second is we're able to feel things that

55:48

part of our brain is bigger with

55:50

the exception of elephants and killer whales Which

55:52

by the way should not be locked

55:54

up in tanks when you realize how emotional

55:56

they are If you don't lean

55:58

into your emotions, you're not taking advantage of what

56:00

it means to be human. And it's very rewarding. It

56:02

really informs your life. Otherwise, you're like me 29

56:04

to 45 and just kind of sleep walking through life

56:06

and thinking, okay, how do I make more money

56:08

and have more sex? Which was as

56:11

an empty meaningless experience, because it's a pretty

56:13

good empty meaningless experience, but this is better. Anyways,

56:15

my win is the Royal Albert Hall and

56:17

back and listening to morning phase and thinking about

56:19

my boys. My fail

56:22

is at the end of the day,

56:24

Management is just one thing. It's

56:26

your ability to allocate capital to a

56:28

greater return than your peer group. And

56:31

the cruel truth of capitalism is

56:33

every organization has a finite or scarce

56:35

amount of resources. So Tim Cook's

56:37

job is just to allocate capital more

56:39

efficiently than the CEO of Metta

56:41

or Samsung. And the president

56:43

has more capital to allocate than anyone

56:45

in history. And the best

56:47

allocation of capital, and we talked

56:50

about this, is the investment

56:52

in our universities. And probably the

56:54

greatest innovation in history was

56:56

our race to split the atom.

56:59

If we hadn't gotten there first and Hitler

57:01

had, we'd be doing this podcast in

57:03

German. And that effort, and one of

57:05

the things I don't think they did a

57:07

great job of in the movie Oppenheimer, was

57:09

nodding to all of the universities

57:12

that were involved. Oh, yeah, you're right.

57:14

And I'm going to get some

57:16

wrong here. But Caltech, Berkeley, Wash

57:18

U, Purdue, University

57:20

of Minnesota, Chicago, you remember

57:23

Chicago played a huge role, Rochester,

57:26

Princeton. All of

57:28

these universities were working on different

57:30

things from the effects of radiation to

57:32

the risk of us lighting the

57:34

atmosphere on fire. And

57:36

these individuals were so

57:38

who had this incredible

57:41

esoteric, generic, ridiculously

57:43

mild, deep any centimeter wide expertise in

57:45

something, we're all coordinated by the

57:47

army and the government to try and

57:49

figure out a way to get

57:51

there first to literally save the world.

57:53

That has happened every day since

57:56

then and has given us

57:58

unbelievable return on investment. And it's

58:00

not only capital through investments

58:02

in our great universities, but it's

58:04

the ability to attract the

58:06

best human capital that know how

58:08

to deploy this capital because

58:10

they're so brilliant. And

58:13

when you start Sending out Aaron

58:15

emails which by the way and

58:17

up are not legal telling people

58:19

graduate students to self -deport. Let me

58:21

give you a basic rundown on

58:23

who our students are in our

58:25

universities. The undergrads at our elite

58:28

universities are a mix of rich

58:30

kids and freakishly remarkable Americans. and

58:32

then a combination of the two from foreign countries.

58:34

At business school, I won't speak for other graduate schools,

58:37

the MBAs are the following. The Americans at business

58:39

schools are what I affectionately call the elite and the

58:41

aimless. They're good smart kids who hated their first

58:43

job, don't know what the fuck to do with their

58:45

lives, so they go back to business school to

58:47

try and figure it out. There's nothing wrong with that,

58:49

I was one of those people. And

58:51

then the foreign students are the

58:53

richest kids from Paraguay, whose dad

58:55

owns the licensing agreement from L

58:57

'Oreal and the ultimate luxury brand

58:59

is to send their kid to

59:02

NYU or to Stanford. And by the way, those are

59:04

the kids you want to party with because they're rich

59:06

kids and they love to party and also they're going

59:08

to be running their country at some point. And then

59:10

there's the PhD students. The PhD

59:12

students, we don't cash their check for

59:14

$72 ,000. We pay them.

59:16

and they come here and take on a

59:18

very narrow topic and they're so good at

59:20

what they do that they teach students and

59:22

then they go on to do nothing but

59:24

focus on a tiny part of the world

59:26

and decide, I am going to know more

59:28

about this tiny part of the world than

59:30

anyone in the world. Arguably the most impressive

59:33

cohort in America is our PhD students. We

59:35

get the Tom Brady's of

59:37

every nation who decides, I'm

59:40

super into liquid particle propulsion

59:42

dynamics and I'm going to

59:44

go to the university of

59:46

Wisconsin and Madison and devote my life

59:48

to it. We find these people that

59:51

have done nothing but go so fucking

59:53

deep around this specific topic that they

59:55

know more about it than anyone in

59:57

the world. And yet we've

59:59

decided we want to scare these people

1:00:01

from coming here. We haven't. One person

1:00:03

has decided. Well, we elected this guy.

1:00:05

But it's as if we're a team

1:00:07

and we get the number one draft

1:00:09

choices from everywhere. And then Tom Brady

1:00:11

shows up and we said, you know,

1:00:13

Tom, I hate to say this, but

1:00:15

there's a chance you might show up

1:00:17

one day, and ice might be

1:00:19

there and ruin you and your family's life

1:00:21

for no goddamn good reason. We

1:00:24

are scaring away one of

1:00:26

our core competences. Our core

1:00:28

advantages globally is not only

1:00:30

the fact that we allocate

1:00:32

capital to this university, but

1:00:34

we attract the finest human

1:00:37

capital to allocate this capital,

1:00:39

resulting in unbelievable innovation that

1:00:41

has driven prosperity, that has

1:00:43

driven unearned margin, My

1:00:45

fail is an unnecessary turning away

1:00:47

of the strongest human capital in the

1:00:49

world and that is our of

1:00:52

me Yeah, you meet it. Just trust

1:00:54

me on this. You meet a

1:00:56

PhD student From India. I don't care

1:00:58

what fucking field there are you're

1:01:00

talking to someone who was the best

1:01:02

at their elementary school then the

1:01:04

best in their region and the best

1:01:06

in their Their state and then

1:01:09

the best at IIT and then figured

1:01:11

out a way to come to

1:01:13

the University of Pennsylvania and study

1:01:15

options theory and helps banks figure this

1:01:17

shit out. It is incredible what

1:01:20

they're doing here, the destruction around, not

1:01:22

just there, but in any case.

1:01:24

Okay, mine are. I have so

1:01:26

many wins today. One, I recommend you

1:01:28

reading Larry David's My Dinner with Adolf.

1:01:30

which is a sort of attack. It's

1:01:32

a very funny thing of him having

1:01:34

dinner with Adolf Hitler and making fun

1:01:36

of Bill Maher. It's very, very, very

1:01:38

funny. Bill Maher needs to step down

1:01:40

on defending. Nobody thinks you shouldn't have

1:01:43

had dinner with him, Bill. They just,

1:01:45

you're moving into Gale King territory here

1:01:47

in defensiveness. But it's really funny,

1:01:49

Larry David's little essay in the New

1:01:51

York Times, and I love Larry David so

1:01:53

much. My other win

1:01:55

is, more seriously, is Alaska

1:01:57

Senator Lisa Murkowski. one of the

1:01:59

few Republicans criticizing Trump. She

1:02:01

admitted last week she was afraid

1:02:04

and fears retaliation, but she's

1:02:06

doubling down and being sort of

1:02:08

a leader in that way. And

1:02:11

she has won despite an attack

1:02:13

by Trump in the last election.

1:02:15

So she's safer than most people

1:02:17

at this moment in time, but

1:02:19

good for her for doing that.

1:02:21

And I think it's infectious, just

1:02:23

like Scott was just talking about

1:02:25

at universities. When Harvard

1:02:27

did it, then MIT did it, then

1:02:29

others did it. Columbia looks like it

1:02:31

might be finding it's fine at some

1:02:34

point. So I really admire

1:02:36

her for doing that. Also, just for

1:02:38

a little thing, this is a

1:02:40

picture speaking of medical students. This is

1:02:42

a picture my mom found of

1:02:44

my dad from, it fell out of

1:02:46

a drawer of hers this week.

1:02:48

And this is me as a kid.

1:02:51

My mom's pregnant with my brother, but there's our

1:02:53

little family. Being very feckin' Donald Trump.

1:02:55

But we did it because my dad

1:02:57

was a poor guy, like you said, and

1:02:59

he got a break. He went

1:03:01

to the Navy, paid for medical

1:03:03

school, built his family, was

1:03:06

able to lift himself up from not

1:03:08

poverty in West Virginia, but not means

1:03:10

in order to go to West Virginia

1:03:12

and to go to school there and

1:03:14

stuff. That's nice. And then my

1:03:16

fail is this continued, it's sort of

1:03:18

coming together. Wired has a

1:03:20

piece of something I have talked about

1:03:22

on this podcast. The scale at which

1:03:25

Doge is seeking to interconnect data, including

1:03:27

sensitive biometric data, is unprecedented, raising alarms

1:03:29

with experts who fear it may lead

1:03:31

to the disastrous privacy violations for citizens

1:03:33

and immigrants alike. I've always said their

1:03:35

game was uniting the data. I

1:03:37

heard this weekend, I'm not going to

1:03:39

say who it was by someone who's

1:03:41

considering leaving the United States. European countries

1:03:44

are offering our greatest technologists, speaking of

1:03:46

what you're talking about, Scott,

1:03:48

it dovetails perfectly. Countries

1:03:51

are trying to get our technologists to

1:03:53

go there by giving them visas, so they're

1:03:55

safe. And a lot of people

1:03:57

who I never thought would consider it are

1:03:59

considering it because they feel retaliation. The

1:04:02

thing, the executive order against Chris

1:04:04

Krabs has been chilling to a lot

1:04:06

of people I know who've been

1:04:08

working on really important things. And the

1:04:10

whole point of Doge is to

1:04:12

unite this data, as I've said, to

1:04:14

create an Uber data situation, which

1:04:16

has never been united, to create an

1:04:18

ability to cross -reference things that have

1:04:20

never been cross -referenced, and for good

1:04:22

reason. It's not for efficiency.

1:04:24

They don't do it. It's because we're scared

1:04:26

of creating a surveillance state the way they

1:04:29

have in China. And so the

1:04:31

fact that it's a reverse brain drain going

1:04:33

on, really dovetails on what Scott was

1:04:35

talking about, is we are rejecting the finest

1:04:37

from elsewhere but our own people. people

1:04:39

will be leaving our country to develop

1:04:41

in other countries. And that is the biggest

1:04:43

tragedy of this. And at the same

1:04:45

time, the government is creating an Uber

1:04:48

database. I have said this

1:04:50

over and over again. I know

1:04:52

you said Elon's leaving, but the legacy

1:04:54

of what he's doing here is

1:04:56

incredibly dangerous for our freedom as far

1:04:58

as I'm concerned. So I think

1:05:00

we should pay a lot of attention

1:05:02

to these databases being joined in

1:05:04

a way that you'll be searchable and

1:05:06

findable. And there will be

1:05:08

so many mistakes in the data that

1:05:10

it's terrifying. A lot of people consider

1:05:12

dead, that aren't dead, have to prove

1:05:14

they're not dead now, people that are

1:05:16

getting arrested, that are American citizens now.

1:05:18

We shouldn't be arresting these immigrants without

1:05:20

due process. But now it's

1:05:23

moving because of mistakes and everything else

1:05:25

and also... It will not be mistakes

1:05:27

at some point. So we should be

1:05:29

very wary about what Doge is doing

1:05:31

in that regard and pay attention even

1:05:33

if Elon's been out of the news

1:05:35

a little bit recently because of so

1:05:38

many other Ridiculous situations. So I just

1:05:40

please pay attention to that wire. It

1:05:42

has a great story on that this

1:05:44

week And so that is my fails.

1:05:46

We don't pay attention They will have

1:05:48

all our information and then do terrible

1:05:50

things to us. I'm so kind of

1:05:53

sort of blown away by your your

1:05:55

speculation or thesis that They're

1:05:57

all of these, both the government and

1:05:59

Musk are bringing all this information together

1:06:01

to develop sort of one like, I

1:06:03

don't know, Skynet of surveillance, of

1:06:05

surveillance control and capital. It'll be

1:06:07

used against immigrants first, but it's

1:06:09

always, you know, it's always for

1:06:11

more. And by the way, I

1:06:13

don't want Democrats having this power

1:06:15

either, FYI. I don't want any

1:06:17

of them having this power, right?

1:06:20

You can have your opinion about whatever

1:06:22

you thought about. the various

1:06:25

things of leaking information, but

1:06:27

the government should never have this

1:06:29

much power and information about

1:06:31

people in one place. It will

1:06:33

always be abused, as has

1:06:35

been shown throughout history. Anyway, we

1:06:37

want to hear from you. Send

1:06:39

us your questions about business tech or

1:06:42

whatever is on your mind. Go

1:06:44

to nymag.com -pivot, submit a question for

1:06:46

the show, or call 8551 -pivot. Elsewhere

1:06:48

in the Kara and Scott universe, I

1:06:50

talked with Melinda French Gates and

1:06:52

on with Kara Swisher. Let's listen. I

1:06:55

never, never would have

1:06:57

guessed that USAID would essentially

1:06:59

be folded. You know,

1:07:02

it was endorsed by Republican

1:07:04

and Democratic administrations because they saw

1:07:06

that people could live where

1:07:08

they were if they had good

1:07:10

health and they had peace

1:07:12

and some chance for prosperity. And

1:07:15

so to see that, you know, 16

1:07:18

million women won't have access to

1:07:20

maternal health services because of that

1:07:22

pullback? How does that make us

1:07:24

look better? How does that help

1:07:26

us with peace? It's

1:07:28

just what you were saying, Scott. Same

1:07:30

thing. You and Melinda Gates are on

1:07:33

the same wavelength. But also,

1:07:35

I'll be interviewing Lisa Sue, the CEO

1:07:37

of AMD, Speaking of Badass Women, live

1:07:39

on stage at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg

1:07:41

Center in Washington, D .C., this

1:07:43

coming Monday, April 28th, a week from

1:07:45

now. If you want to hear a smart

1:07:47

conversation about semiconductor chips, industrial policy in

1:07:49

the future of AI, Google Keraswisher and

1:07:51

Lisa Sue, SU, to RSVP,

1:07:53

tickets are free. Okay, that's

1:07:55

the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot.

1:07:57

Be sure to like and subscribe to

1:08:00

our YouTube channel. We'll be back on

1:08:02

Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show

1:08:04

is produced by Larry Naim and Zoe

1:08:06

Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her

1:08:08

Todd engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited

1:08:10

the video. Thanks also to Drew

1:08:12

Burroughs, Ms. Severo, and Dan Chalon. The

1:08:14

shot crew of Vox Media's executive producer

1:08:16

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1:08:18

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1:08:20

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1:08:22

Magazine of Vox Media. You can subscribe

1:08:24

to the magazine at nymag.com. We'll

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1:08:29

week for another breakdown of

1:08:31

all things and business, back's

1:08:33

morning phase. Trust me.