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1:49

to Pod Save America. I'm John Favreau. I'm Dan

1:51

Pfeiffer. Here we are in DC. Back

1:53

home. Yeah. Dan's delivering the big

1:55

speech at the Correspondent Center. And

1:58

you're the comedian, right? And you're here

2:00

for a bill signing in the Oval Office,

2:02

right? I'm here for the EO. Yeah,

2:04

it's really exciting. No, we're

2:06

just in town for a couple days

2:08

to catch up with some people. And

2:11

I don't know. What do you think of DC since

2:13

we have? I haven't been here in a year. Seems

2:15

more ominous, but maybe that's just my own. I think

2:17

that's that's in your head. It is in my

2:19

head. You could walk around and not know the democracy

2:21

is collapsing around you, like the Lincoln Memorial still

2:23

standing. For now, for now, we haven't

2:25

left yet. All right, on today's show, we're

2:27

going to talk about Elon Musk, who is leaving

2:29

the White House to spend more time. with

2:32

his ailing car company. We'll

2:34

talk about what it means for his quest

2:36

to break all the government services Americans rely

2:38

on. We'll also talk about Donald Trump's quest

2:40

to make America poorer with his big dumb

2:42

trade war and his quest to make himself

2:44

richer with a new crypto scheme to literally

2:46

sell dinners with Trump and White House tours

2:48

to people who buy his meme coin. Shocking,

2:51

but not really. We've also got our

2:53

hands on some exclusive new polling that lines up

2:56

with a lot of other recent polls that

2:58

show just how unpopular Trump's illegal deportations are with

3:00

the public. And then our good

3:02

friend, Amanda Lippmann, the co -founder of Run for Something,

3:04

comes by to talk about her new book for crooked

3:06

media reads, When We're in Charge,

3:08

which is a fantastic guide for young

3:10

people looking to get into leadership positions.

3:12

But first, let's talk about

3:14

the art of the deal, which hopefully all of

3:16

you have read by now. It's required reading in

3:18

America. It's required reading. Here's how it works. You

3:21

win an election based largely on the

3:23

perception that you'll lower prices and keep

3:25

the economy growing. Upon taking

3:27

office, you start a massive trade war

3:29

with the entire world that panics

3:31

the markets, sends investors fleeing from the

3:33

United States, and threatens to plunge

3:35

the economy into recession. Then

3:37

you pause some of the

3:39

tariffs, raise them on China, promise

3:42

to make a bunch of deals, make no

3:44

deals, and for good measure, threaten to

3:46

fire the Fed share, who you appointed. If

3:48

any of that sounds confusing, here's a

3:50

sampling of what it was like to

3:52

follow the Trump administration's statements on the economy

3:54

just this week. On Jerome Powell, you

3:56

said that the termination of Jerome Powell

3:59

cannot come fast enough. He says

4:01

he won't leave it in, even if you

4:03

ask him to. Oh, he'll leave. If I

4:05

ask him to, he'll be out of there.

4:07

No, I have no intention to fire him.

4:09

According to this source in the room, what

4:11

the Treasury Secretary said was, no one thinks

4:13

the current status quo is sustainable at 145

4:16

and 125 % in terms of the relationship with

4:18

tariffs with China. Let me be clear, there

4:20

will be no unilateral reduction in tariffs against

4:22

China. The president has made it clear, China

4:24

needs to make a deal with the United

4:26

States of America. I'm not going to say,

4:28

oh, I'm going to play hardball with China.

4:31

I'm going to play hardball with you,

4:33

President Xi. No, no, we're going to be

4:35

very nice. They're going to be very nice. You

4:37

got all that, Dan? One last

4:39

kicker from this morning, a top Chinese

4:41

official said there had been no talks and

4:43

that the US must cancel all of

4:45

its tariffs if it wants to deal. He

4:48

quoted a Chinese proverb, the person

4:50

who tied the bell must untie it. Nice.

4:52

Do you think Trump's going to untie the bell?

4:55

And what do you make of all the back

4:57

and forth? I think Trump was asked again

4:59

right before we were recording about the Chinese official

5:01

who made those comments. And he was like,

5:03

well, there was a meeting this morning and then

5:05

maybe I'll reveal who it was at some

5:07

point, but there's a meeting. So I think it's

5:09

the fake news. The fake news,

5:11

the story about the fake news, the fake news. Got it.

5:13

Got it. Got it. Got it. I have some questions about

5:15

the Chinese proverb. Yeah. How do you tie a bell? Yeah. You

5:18

can't, well, I thought it was going to be the person

5:20

who rings the bells to unring the bell, but you can't

5:22

unring a bell, which is the whole point of the original

5:24

saying. Right. I think they got to work on that. I

5:26

think we should jack up the tariff floor just for that.

5:28

It's also possible things have gotten lost in translation here. That's

5:30

true. I mean, this

5:32

is insanity, but it's also should

5:34

be completely expected. Like this is

5:36

what happens when you put in

5:38

the White House a erratic older

5:40

man who hasn't had a new

5:43

idea since Cheers was on the

5:45

air. And then he surrounds himself

5:47

with a bunch of yahoo's who

5:49

view their only job is to

5:51

make the Mad King happy. Yeah.

5:53

And so you end up with

5:55

this pure chaos. And

5:57

it is like there is

5:59

no, there is no coherent policy.

6:02

There is no coherent ideology

6:04

behind the policy. There is no

6:06

consistency between on a

6:08

minute to minute basis, like we're recording this on

6:10

Thursday afternoon, East Coast time. By the time people

6:12

listen to this on Friday morning, it's very possible

6:14

and perhaps probable that there will be an entirely

6:16

new position on Terrace with China by the time

6:18

you listen to this. That's a good bet. I

6:20

mean, there's always been this axiom

6:23

that the only real constraint on Trump

6:25

is that he won't do anything

6:27

that tanks the markets, but from liberation

6:29

day onward, at least, that hasn't

6:31

been true. What do we

6:33

know, if anything, about why

6:35

he may ultimately back down? Well,

6:38

he, he is responding to the

6:40

markets, right? And he has been

6:43

since the beginning here. When the,

6:45

he put the first tariffs on Canada, Mexico,

6:47

market tank, he took them off. Then he

6:49

put new tariffs on Canada, Mexico, market tank,

6:52

they announced a bunch of exceptions that basically

6:54

made them hollow shells himself. Then he puts

6:56

a global tariff, then he does the reciprocal

6:58

tariffs on everyone, market tanks, takes

7:00

those off, moves it down to 10%,

7:02

but keeps them on China. Market Tanks

7:04

takes them off, or at least talks

7:06

about taking them off to make the

7:08

market go up. Talks about

7:10

firing Jerome Powell, Market Tanks says

7:12

he's not going to fire

7:14

Jerome Powell, Market Gains again. And

7:17

so he is responding to it. The problem

7:19

is, is he does not, I

7:21

mean, it doesn't get it. He

7:23

doesn't get that every time he

7:25

takes the market and then changes

7:27

his position, he's making the next

7:29

time he changes position less helpful.

7:31

Like the stock market will come

7:33

back. The stock market always comes

7:35

back. But every time he's inserting

7:37

more uncertainty into the economy, which

7:39

is going to depress everything, right?

7:41

We got reports this morning that

7:43

new home sales are at their

7:45

lowest level since 2022, coming right

7:47

out of the pandemic. And

7:49

this is all happening because no one,

7:51

not a major corporation, not a small business,

7:53

not a family can make any decisions.

7:55

They have no idea what's happening. Are

7:58

things about things that we all need

8:01

about to be exponentially more expensive in

8:03

a few weeks? Or not, we

8:05

don't know. Are we gonna be in a

8:07

recession? Or not, we don't know. Is

8:10

Jerome Powell gonna be in charge

8:12

of monetary policy? Or will it be

8:14

someone from Fox Business? We don't know.

8:16

And because of that, it is doing

8:18

real damage to the economy that cannot

8:20

simply be undone by another truth contradicting

8:23

what Caroline Levitt said earlier that day.

8:25

Yeah, the first reaction from... House when

8:27

the start was like, oh, who cares

8:29

about the markets? And that's just Wall

8:31

Street and we're focused on Main

8:33

Street. And what they missed about that,

8:35

aside from the fact that, you know,

8:38

most Americans have at least some

8:40

money in the stock market, most

8:42

of their retirement, that the market

8:44

is just responding to how they

8:46

believe the economy is going to

8:48

fare. And the economic damage has already begun.

8:50

And we haven't even seen the worst of it yet,

8:52

even if the trade war stops tomorrow, by the way, some

8:54

of this is priced in because But

8:57

I do think that he met

8:59

with this week the CEOs of Target

9:01

and Walmart and Home Depot, and

9:04

they reportedly told him that we are

9:06

a couple of weeks away from empty shelves.

9:09

Not just higher prices, they said that too, but

9:11

empty shelves because there'll be such a supply

9:13

chain issue, which is what we dealt with during

9:15

the pandemic for reasons that weren't just some

9:17

idiot's trade war. IMF,

9:19

they had originally predicted the inflation rate.

9:21

The U .S. was supposed to be

9:23

1 .9 % this year. They've upped that

9:25

prediction to 3%. There are truck plants

9:28

in Maryland and Pennsylvania already laying off

9:30

hundreds of workers because orders aren't coming

9:32

in due to a lack of certainty.

9:34

Manufacturers are already reducing headcount. Remember this

9:36

whole thing, one of the... one of

9:38

the rationales, one of the many is

9:40

that we're bringing manufacturing back to the

9:42

United States, but it's actually making things

9:44

more expensive and manufacturing is going to

9:46

leave the United States or at least

9:48

layoff workers. Yes, because they get the

9:50

parts from other countries. I mean,

9:52

there's even, it's like, it's affecting small businesses. Like

9:54

there is a small business that my wife uses

9:56

to buy name tags for like the small name

9:58

tags for like kids clothes and lunchbox and stuff

10:00

like that. They would not a business because the

10:02

tariffs, they sent an email out to everyone saying

10:05

that they couldn't afford it because the tariffs, because

10:07

I assume they get the products from. China.

10:10

The other challenge I don't think they've

10:12

really thought through is that, you

10:15

know, doing a full trade war

10:17

with the Chinese, Chinese

10:19

government, they've been authoritarian government

10:21

for a long time. And so

10:23

they can basically force their people

10:26

to accept much more pain. than

10:29

maybe Americans are willing to accept.

10:31

And so they can, I don't know that China's

10:34

gonna be, I mean, from that wonderful proverb we

10:36

heard, I don't know that China's gonna be backing

10:38

down anytime soon, because Trump looks like an idiot. It's

10:41

causing Trump political pain. And

10:44

I think they can, like obviously China doesn't wanna

10:46

be in this trade war, but I think that they

10:48

can probably last longer than Trump thinks they can.

10:50

Of course, they absolutely can. There's

10:52

no political pressure. She's not

10:54

waiting, worrying about the YouGov daily tracking

10:57

full and like, well, it's going to

10:59

impact the generic ballot. Like that's not

11:01

a concern it is. So he doesn't

11:03

have that problem. But there's a world

11:05

where a normal, competent president with a

11:07

coherent economic and foreign policy would be

11:09

marshaling the world to unite against China

11:11

in this trade war. You would be

11:13

working with the EU, but also other

11:15

Asian. countries. But instead, Trump has pissed

11:17

off the entire world and now these

11:20

countries are going to be in a

11:22

position where they're going to be incentivized

11:24

to cut specific deals with China. Well,

11:26

and already there's reports that Japan

11:28

is saying they don't want to be

11:30

part of any deal that screws

11:32

over China because that's a market for

11:34

them. China has reached out to

11:36

the EU and has said, let's form

11:38

an alliance against the United States. Just

11:41

as we put it on the whiteboard. I'm

11:44

fucking real. And again, this

11:46

is like he could climb down from

11:48

this whole thing tomorrow and pretend it's a

11:50

big victory and say, they're talking about

11:52

now, they're weeks and weeks and

11:54

maybe months away from actual deals, but maybe

11:56

there's a memorandum of understanding they can

11:58

have with India about the contours of a

12:00

deal. So they're gonna like, they could

12:02

take something and say, oh, big victory, Trump

12:04

wins already economic damage. And I think

12:06

it's gonna be very hard to put this

12:08

back in the box, even if he

12:11

stops tomorrow. Yeah. We're also, we're seeing a

12:13

lot of new polling now on how

12:15

Americans are looking at all this. I think

12:17

you guys talked about that this week

12:19

on Polar Cruster. Yeah. I spoke with Molly

12:21

Murphy, who is one of the smartest

12:23

Democratic pollsters. She pulled for the Harris campaign,

12:25

but also for Lissa Slack and Josh

12:27

Stein and a whole bunch of other candidates.

12:29

And we talked about state of politics,

12:31

public opinion, but I'll specifically about the polling.

12:33

We have a clip. We just did

12:35

a poll. We do polling with the Wall

12:37

Street Journal. And we looked at the

12:39

tariff policies. We looked at how people think

12:41

it will affect the economy and their

12:43

costs. And a majority of Americans oppose the

12:45

tariffs. 75 % think it will

12:47

cause their own costs to go

12:49

up. And as you said, they voted

12:51

for him to bring costs down. The

12:54

nuance here with Trump is that when

12:56

he messages this, he messages short -term

12:58

gain. It's odd that he gets away.

13:00

in some ways with being honest with

13:03

people by saying short -term pain long -term

13:05

gain. We've got some big problems. And

13:07

so there's about a third of Americans

13:09

who are sitting in this, maybe

13:11

we're going to take on some short -term pain.

13:13

If we see things get better, it will be

13:15

worth it. But I think we all know

13:17

that this isn't going to result in lower cost

13:19

for people. It is not going to turn

13:21

out that way. And those will be the fissures.

13:23

And that's really the imperative for Democrats to

13:25

really take on and not let him get away

13:27

with the messaging that he's currently putting out

13:29

there. Let me expand upon what Molly said there,

13:31

which is they had three groups of voters.

13:33

There's a groups who are all pain, right?

13:36

And that's mostly Democrats, people who don't

13:38

like Trump. There is a group of people

13:40

who are no pain. It's not to

13:42

hurt a short term. It's not going

13:44

to hurt a long term, right? Enjoy.

13:46

Enjoy. Tariffs are great. And that's Trump's

13:48

base. And the middle is some pain. but

13:51

some long -term gain. A lot of these

13:53

folks are independents, some of them are soft

13:55

Republicans, but that's the group that Democrats are

13:57

gonna have to focus on when the medium

13:59

and long -term gain does not happen. Yeah,

14:01

short -term pain, long -term

14:04

decline, long -term global economic

14:06

collapse. And look, I think that

14:08

people may say, let's give them

14:10

some time, weeks, months, it's

14:12

understandable, more or less 100 days in, if you're a

14:14

Trump fan, right? I

14:16

don't think people have the patience that

14:18

they even tell pollsters they have because

14:20

none of us have patience anymore because

14:22

of our screens and media and the

14:24

way the worlds work. So I don't

14:26

think in like a couple of weeks,

14:29

if the shelves are empty at fucking

14:31

Target, people are going to be like,

14:33

well, this short term pain, I know

14:35

something better is right around the corner.

14:37

Well, people are against the tariffs and

14:39

they're suffering almost no consequences of them

14:41

yet. Right. If you run a business,

14:43

you're dealing with this, but like as

14:45

a consumer, you're not yet paying higher

14:47

prices in most cases. And the shelves

14:49

are not yet empty. We're not facing

14:51

supply chain room. So when that happens,

14:53

it is truly stunning. It takes actual

14:55

effort to both crash the economy and

14:57

raise prices. Normally you raise

15:00

prices because the economy is running too

15:02

hot. That's when inflation comes. And so

15:04

he's put us in a position where

15:06

we're going to be potentially in a

15:08

recession. and we're gonna have inflation. That

15:10

is like really impressive stuff from the

15:12

guy. And just completely 1 ,000 % self -inflicted.

15:14

He could have just come into office

15:16

and not done any of this and

15:18

the economy would be just chugging along

15:20

great right now. That is largely what

15:23

he did in his first term. Like

15:25

his major economic accomplishment was not fucking

15:27

up Barack Obama's economy. He just did,

15:29

they passed his tax cut. It didn't

15:31

really do anything other than enrich shareholders.

15:34

Yeah, he did. One accomplishment was adding to the

15:36

deficit. Yes, he definitely added to the deficit. But

15:39

in that period from 2017 to

15:41

before COVID kicked in, basically

15:43

just kind of chugged along, it was the same economy. And

15:47

he didn't try to mess with it. This time he tried

15:49

to mess with it, and we're all paying the price, literally. Podsave

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17:31

This podcast is supported by Comedy Central's

17:33

The Daily Show. John Stewart and

17:35

the Daily Show news team are covering

17:37

the final week of President Trump's

17:39

second first 100 days with a different

17:41

host every night. There's never been

17:43

a week like this because, well, there's

17:45

never been a president like this.

17:47

Except for the last time he was

17:49

president. Comedy Central's The Daily Show.

17:51

New weeknights at 11, 10 Central on

17:53

Comedy Central and streaming next day

17:55

on Paramount+. One

18:00

person who's not concerned about the

18:02

impact of Donald Trump's trade war on

18:04

their personal finances, Donald Trump, who's

18:06

very busy abusing his office to make

18:08

himself richer. That's right, Dan.

18:10

It's time for another corrupt date. You

18:13

think that's gonna stick? I don't know. I mean, it really

18:15

will be up to us to make it stick. Like,

18:18

we would just have to do it a lot, then

18:20

it would be there. We're in charge, sort of. If you

18:22

have any questions or complaints, just direct them to John

18:24

Lovett. On Wednesday, a website

18:26

hyping the Trump meme coin announced the Trump

18:29

would host an exclusive dinner for the

18:31

220 people who own the most tokens to

18:33

be held at a Trump club in

18:35

Virginia, followed by a private tour of the

18:37

White House for the top 25 investors. This

18:40

caused the coin's price to jump 60%,

18:42

which is money in Trump's pocket because

18:44

his family's company owns a majority of

18:46

the coins. The website

18:49

announcing all this,

18:51

gettrumpmemes.com. Fuck. says it

18:53

has a leaderboard going for the people who've

18:55

bought the most so far. You have

18:57

to register to see it, which I have not had the

18:59

time to do yet. But the copy says, the

19:01

competition is fierce. Own Trump

19:03

or watch from the sidelines. Josh

19:05

Dossy at the Wall Street Journal

19:07

reported that even White House aides

19:09

were surprised by the promotion. And

19:12

you've got some of the most corrupt goobers in

19:14

the world in the White House. And they're like, I

19:16

don't know about that. Are you in or are

19:18

you on the sidelines? I could not be further on

19:20

the sidelines. I

19:23

guess you're not gonna own Trump. Not

19:26

in a financial sense, no. So

19:28

I know that there's like a lot

19:30

of people aren't familiar with how

19:32

meme coins work. I was one

19:34

of them until like, I don't know, a

19:36

couple of months ago last year. It

19:38

does seem like this is a case though

19:40

of like blatant corruption that's not too

19:42

hard to explain and should make people, most

19:45

voters pretty pissed. Yeah, you

19:47

do not need to understand what a

19:49

meme coin is to understand that

19:51

this is Trump. selling access

19:53

to the White House, pure

19:55

and simple. And himself. Right.

19:58

It's access to, right, access to

20:00

the president. So whoever spends the most

20:02

money to put money in, it's

20:04

legal, quasi legalized bribery. Whoever

20:06

spends the most money will get to get

20:08

to the president to bend his ear

20:10

for whatever their chosen policy goal is or

20:12

more likely pardon that they would like.

20:14

And it's just, I want to just explain

20:16

this a little bit, which is Trump

20:18

makes money here in two ways. One,

20:21

he makes money, his company and his family make

20:23

money off the sale of every coin. So every

20:25

one of these people who is buying one of

20:28

these coins to meet Trump is paying him when

20:30

they do it. And then they were inflating the

20:32

worth of each individual coin. Trump's family owns a

20:34

ton of them, so his net worth goes up.

20:36

And so whenever he does the rug pull and

20:38

sells some of his coins, he will make a

20:40

whole bunch more money because of this. You

20:43

could not, this is just how gross this is,

20:45

is if this was a campaign fundraiser, it would be

20:48

illegal. You could not do this

20:50

in the White House. You could not invite, ask

20:52

people to give money for the specific purpose

20:54

of getting a White House tour or a meeting

20:56

with the president of the White House. You

20:58

can all, and that money doesn't even

21:00

go to him. And you are not

21:03

allowed to, and that would be have

21:05

transparency about who did it. Obviously there

21:07

was transparency here because there was a

21:09

fucking leaderboard. Although it's not, I haven't

21:11

seen the leaderboard, but I don't think

21:13

it's giving name, occupation, and state like

21:15

the FEC does. So there's transparency if

21:17

it was campaign financing. And none of

21:19

that money could theoretically go to the

21:21

president himself. He can't spend it on

21:23

his own stuff. This is going directly

21:25

into his bank account. We have people

21:27

auctioning off time with the president in

21:29

the White House to make him richer.

21:31

It is the most corrupt thing that

21:33

any president, Richard Nixon included, has

21:35

ever done. Hands down, it's not even

21:37

close. I was just

21:39

thinking about this and we should

21:42

ask one of our strict scrutiny pals,

21:44

but the Supreme Court decision about

21:46

how the president is

21:48

immune from criminal prosecution

21:50

for acts that

21:52

could be construed as

21:54

within his official

21:56

duties as president, feels

21:58

like this is outside of that. I

22:00

don't know how you can, I don't know

22:02

how you can make, because I think

22:04

that one of the examples people brought up

22:06

was like, oh, could you just bribe

22:08

the president for a pardon? And you could

22:11

say, well, the pardon power is his

22:13

power as president. But this is like, How

22:15

is any of this related to

22:18

any official act of the president? I

22:20

mean, it's obviously not. It's not.

22:22

I think he could be prosecuted for this. I

22:24

would love to see the legal brief making the

22:26

case. This is somehow adjacent to crypto policy, something

22:28

the president is in charge of. Yeah, maybe David

22:30

Taks is going to get to work on that

22:32

one. Yeah, this is bad.

22:34

This is one that I think people should talk

22:37

about. And everyone should know about this, because

22:39

it is... Especially as you go to Target, the

22:41

shelves are empty. You just lost

22:43

your job at the manufacturing plant because

22:45

they had to lay people off because

22:47

all the uncertainty. And then

22:49

you turn on the news and the Trump

22:51

meme coin just jumped 60 % because he's

22:53

walking around the White House with the

22:55

top investors. Just absolutely wild. I don't know.

22:57

It seems like you could make something

23:00

out of that. All right, speaking of rich

23:02

assholes, the richest and the biggest made

23:04

some news this week. Elon Musk, the

23:06

shitposting sperm super donor who Trump brought in

23:08

to wreck the federal government, will be stepping

23:10

away from his duties here in Washington, which

23:12

is really why we're here for the Bill

23:14

and White Party. We were invited. That's right.

23:16

I mean, you do have an online relationship.

23:19

We do, yeah. So it's good to see

23:21

him in person. Just heartbreaking.

23:23

heartbreaking that he's leaving, such a

23:25

loss. We learned this on

23:27

Tuesday after the news broke that

23:29

Tesla's net income for the first quarter

23:31

fell 71 % and revenue dropped 9

23:33

% from the same period last year.

23:35

Is that good? I'm

23:37

not a business guy, but seems like no.

23:39

Elon made an appearance on the company's earnings

23:41

call to offer his best guess as to

23:43

why that might be and what happens now.

23:46

Let's listen. As some people know,

23:48

there's been some blowback for

23:50

the time that I'm spending in

23:53

government with the Department of

23:55

Government Efficiency or DOGE. But the

23:57

large slug of work necessary

23:59

to get the DOGE team in

24:01

place and working in the

24:03

government to get the financial housing

24:05

order is mostly done. Next

24:07

month, May,

24:11

my time allocation to

24:13

DOGE will drop significantly. I'll

24:16

have to continue doing it for, I

24:18

think, the remainder of

24:20

the president's term, just

24:22

to make sure that the waste and

24:25

fraud that we stopped does not come

24:27

roaring back. Trump was then asked about

24:29

this in the Oval Office on Wednesday

24:31

night. Here's what he said. I can't

24:33

speak more highly about any individual. He's

24:35

an incredible guy. He's a brilliant guy.

24:37

He's a wonderful person. I've seen

24:39

him with his family. I've seen him

24:41

with a lot of his children. He's got a lot of

24:43

children. And he was a

24:45

tremendous help both in the campaign, and

24:48

in what he's done with Doge.

24:51

I also know that he was

24:53

treated very unfairly by the, I

24:55

guess you'd call it the public, by some

24:57

of the public, not by all of it.

24:59

I say he makes an incredible car, makes

25:02

everything he does is good, but they took

25:04

it out on Tesla. And

25:06

I just thought it was so

25:08

unfair. Poor Tesla. Ah, Tesla. Poor

25:10

Tesla. Note the past tense there,

25:12

he was a tremendous help. We

25:14

also learned that Elon and Scott

25:16

Besant, The Treasury Secretary apparently got

25:18

into a shouting match recently outside

25:20

the Oval about who would run

25:22

the IRS, because Scott

25:24

Besant wanted a competent, experienced

25:27

professional to run the IRS,

25:30

and Elon wanted the random, quote unquote,

25:32

whistleblower. that yelled something about Hunter Biden

25:34

and some scandal that I can barely

25:36

remember at this point, who was just

25:38

some like mid -level flunky. He wanted him

25:40

to run the IRS, so they fought

25:42

about that outside the Oval. At one

25:44

point, Elon called Besant a Soros agent.

25:47

So welcome to the club, Scott. First

25:50

of all, how much of

25:52

Tesla's problems, sorry, Tesla's problems are attributable

25:54

to the blowback that Trump was

25:57

talking about and what other factors were

25:59

in play. In other words,

26:01

did we, the woke mob, just score

26:03

a big win? Yes, big win for the

26:05

book, Bob. Tesla probably

26:07

has four problems. The first

26:09

is the guy who runs the company's been

26:11

doing everything but run the company for a while

26:13

now, usually a problem. Two,

26:15

it's hard to

26:18

know how much the

26:20

political blowback impacted

26:22

sales, but just common

26:25

sense is the

26:27

customer base for Tesla

26:29

is... well, they

26:31

could use a brand

26:34

refresh, is generally

26:36

well to do climate conscious

26:38

liberals. People who

26:40

probably aren't super into buying cars from

26:42

a company run by a guy tweeting

26:44

about replacement theory at three in the

26:46

morning. Yeah. And these are the people

26:48

who crawled across glass to vote for

26:50

Susan Crawford in Wisconsin. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Three

26:53

is the tariffs. They mentioned this in the call.

26:56

It's hard to know exactly how much that is going to affect

26:58

them over the load. or shortly in the near term here,

27:00

but they get a lot of other parts from overseas. And

27:02

the last thing is there's more competition

27:04

in the EV market. There are just more

27:07

companies making better cars. And so if

27:09

you have a choice between two pretty good

27:11

EVs of similar price, are

27:13

you really going to pick the one from

27:15

Elon Musk? Maybe not. Well, and I think

27:17

especially orders for Tesla. from Europe were way

27:19

down. This is true about that moment of

27:21

rock. Europeans, you think we're mad at Elon.

27:23

They're pretty mad because he goes over there

27:25

and he's like, hey, what about the Nazis?

27:28

I did not really say that, but that

27:30

was a shorthand for one of his

27:32

many speeches over there in Europe. What

27:34

do you make of Elon's departure?

27:36

On the one hand, it was kind

27:38

of expected. He was designated a

27:41

special government employee, which you can only

27:43

be for a certain amount of

27:45

time. But if you're longer than that,

27:47

then it triggers like, you know,

27:49

Disclosure, ethics stuff, all this stuff that

27:51

Elon would want to avoid. So

27:53

we knew he was going to leave

27:55

at some point, but you know,

27:57

on the other hand, Trump's cabinet and

27:59

most Americans have really come to

28:01

dislike Elon. So what do you think?

28:03

It's weird in the American people

28:06

and Pete Hicks has to agree on

28:08

something. I think it's a

28:10

pretty big deal. First, I think it's worth saying, is

28:13

he really leaving? Yeah. When companies

28:15

have a very bad quarter, they

28:17

tend to want to announce something

28:19

on the earnings call that suggests

28:21

they have a plan to fix

28:23

the problem. And so

28:25

Elon saying he's returning, he's

28:27

getting out of government coming back,

28:29

solves the political backlash problem and

28:31

the problem of the absentee landlord

28:34

at Tesla. And so that is

28:36

a reason to give, to minimize the

28:38

market fallout right after the earnings call.

28:40

And it actually, I think in this

28:42

case did a little bit. solve

28:44

some of those problems. So is he really leaving?

28:46

It's not a super honest guy. I don't know. But

28:48

if he is leaving, I do think this

28:50

is the functional end of Doge. He,

28:54

I mean, who else is going to

28:56

have the power to actually do the

28:58

things he's doing, right? To bully cabinet

29:01

interests. so poorly. Yeah, do it absolutely

29:03

poorly. Like everything he's doing is, it's

29:05

incompetent, but it is severe. And

29:07

it's very hard to get severe cuts.

29:09

in Washington, and he's able to

29:11

do those in the worst way possible.

29:13

Don't get me wrong, because he

29:15

is more powerful, both with more powerful

29:18

globally and more influential with Trump

29:20

than anyone who serves in his cabinet.

29:22

But if there's someone else running Doge,

29:24

like what flunky is going to be

29:26

able to end run Scott Besant to

29:28

Donald Trump? No one. We should

29:31

also take a look at a

29:33

Doge report card here. Elon He

29:36

originally set out to, he

29:38

said he could get, he could

29:40

find $2 trillion in savings, $2 trillion.

29:42

Then he cut that down to

29:44

$1 trillion. Now you know what they've

29:46

saved, about $95 billion. So

29:49

much less than what he wanted. And that's

29:51

not even counting the savings that are being

29:54

held up in court. Correct, right. And

29:56

so what do you get for $95 billion in

29:58

savings? Is that going to, is it taxpayers saving

30:00

a lot of money, getting a lot of rebates?

30:03

No, that means about over 200 ,000 people

30:05

lost their jobs from federal government, including

30:07

cancer researchers, veterans jobs, food inspectors, tax

30:09

collectors, which is probably going to undo

30:11

the savings from Doge because now a

30:14

bunch of rich people are going to

30:16

get to cheat on their taxes and

30:18

not pay them to the federal government.

30:20

So chaos around the Social Security Administration,

30:23

which then they had to pull back. A

30:25

bunch of people died all around the world thanks to

30:27

him putting USAID in

30:29

the woodchipper, which he

30:31

bragged about. Nick

30:33

Kristof was tweeting about

30:35

how he tweeted at Elon this

30:37

week about how there's a boy in

30:39

Africa who was born with HIV, was

30:41

kept alive by medicine that cost

30:43

12 cents a day. He's

30:46

dead now. And you can look

30:48

the reports of this all over

30:50

the world. People have already died

30:52

because of this. More people will die because

30:54

of medicine that we took away and

30:56

food that we took away that cost pennies

30:58

a day, pennies a day. So this

31:00

is, this is Elon Musk's doge legacy. Pretty

31:02

good, huh? Yeah, not great. Do

31:05

you see Steve Bannon was out with a statement on this?

31:07

Oh, no. What'd he say? Elon

31:09

Musk should be required to submit a certified

31:11

inventory of all the fraud and waste

31:13

he found while in government. And there should

31:15

be full disclosure of any non -governmental entities

31:17

to have obtained sensitive federal data through

31:19

Doge. Sounds like a Democratic member

31:21

of Congress. Steve Bannon.

31:24

Yeah, so I agree. I agree with

31:26

Steve Bannon. All right, let's clip that,

31:28

Elijah. Let's get a certified

31:30

inventory of all the fraud and waste

31:32

because it's supposed to also be the most

31:34

transparent administration in history. Yes, of course.

31:36

And they put everything on the Doge website

31:38

only except when they don't. So good

31:40

job at Doge, Elon. We really

31:42

needed a Doge, like an Elon in -memory

31:44

Doge in -memory. That's a good idea. God

31:46

damn it. That would be good. Let's

31:49

do a... Anyone do content around here?

31:54

Elijah's just posting over there. That's right. This

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33:39

Terms and Conditions apply. Let's

33:44

talk about deportations. There's been more

33:46

churn in the courts on this. On

33:48

Tuesday, U .S. District Court

33:50

Judge Paula Zinnis slammed the DOJ over

33:52

what she called a, quote, willful

33:54

and intentional refusal to comply with

33:56

her order to return Kilmer -Abrego Garcia

33:58

and accuse the government of dishonesty

34:00

and obstruction. Then on Wednesday, in

34:03

a totally separate case, a

34:05

Trump -appointed judge, Stephanie Gallagher, ordered

34:07

the return of another wrongly

34:09

deported man. This time, it

34:11

was a Venezuelan asylum seeker

34:13

whose removal violated a court

34:15

settlement. another unlawful deportation. Gallagher

34:17

cited the Abrigo Garcia case in

34:19

her ruling and called the government's actions,

34:21

quote, a breach of a contract.

34:23

But Trump's not just losing in the

34:26

courts, he's also losing in the

34:28

court of public opinion. Multiple polls now

34:30

have Trump underwater on immigration, which

34:32

was his best issue, including the latest

34:34

Fox News poll that Trump was

34:36

bitching about on Truth Social this morning.

34:39

A YouGov poll found Americans support

34:41

bringing Abrigo Garcia back by nearly

34:43

two to one. margin, and

34:45

only 27 % buy into Trump's claim

34:47

that he's MS -13, a claim that

34:49

the administration still hasn't even tried to

34:51

prove in court. And

34:53

we were just given, right here

34:55

at Pod Save America, Dan, we

34:57

were just given an exclusive new

34:59

poll from the Democratic research firm

35:01

Tavern Research, which surveyed a huge

35:03

sample of nearly 13 ,000 voters over

35:06

the last few days. A

35:08

couple of things that they found, the Abrigo

35:10

Garcia case has certainly broke through. to most

35:12

voters. Voters disapprove of how

35:14

Trump is handling it by a 14

35:16

-point margin. Only 25 % of

35:18

voters believe Trump is following the law. Only

35:20

25 % believe that it's okay for him

35:22

to defy the court's orders. Getting

35:25

down to 25%, usually he's got

35:27

like 35 -40 with almost anything he

35:29

does. So down to 25%. And the

35:31

most effective messages when talking about

35:33

the case have to do with Trump

35:35

defying the courts and In doing

35:37

so, putting the due process rights of

35:39

all Americans at risk, those were

35:41

the most effective message. What do you

35:44

make of those numbers? Encouraging as an

35:46

American. Yeah. Just that there are,

35:48

like, Democrats, we talked about this last

35:50

week, but Democrats are sort of

35:52

taught to be afraid of immigration and

35:54

that here we have not just

35:56

the moral high ground but the political

35:58

high ground and that Democrats should make

36:00

the arguments against these illegal deportations

36:02

with confidence. You should

36:05

need a poll to talk about these

36:07

things, but if you do you now

36:09

have the polling to give it to

36:11

put some to stiffen your spine a

36:13

bit. Yeah, I also think it's a

36:15

good lesson in How polling should be

36:17

used because usually there's this argument like

36:19

should we follow the polls should we

36:22

not follow the polls and as you

36:24

know like polling is just another useful

36:26

tool to use depending on how you

36:28

use it right and it is still

36:30

true probably that most Americans want a

36:32

secure border and you know want people

36:34

who are criminals, deported. And

36:36

there's a limit to how many even

36:39

asylum seekers people want to take

36:41

in because they saw over the last

36:43

couple of years that a lot

36:45

of asylum seekers were sort of stretching

36:47

public services in cities all across

36:49

the country. And those views, I don't

36:51

think haven't changed, but that is

36:54

entirely separate from also believing that we

36:56

should send people to a gulag

36:58

or we should deport people without due

37:00

process or any of the stuff

37:02

that he's doing. And there's a nuance

37:04

there that I think sometimes the

37:06

Interparty fighting among Democrats doesn't really get

37:09

at least online Obviously, but that

37:11

like two things can be true at

37:13

once and just because Immigration is

37:15

a good issue for Trump doesn't mean

37:17

that no matter what he does

37:19

around immigration. It's going to be popular

37:21

Yeah, it's we we all lost

37:24

our mind on the politics of immigration

37:26

from like 2022 until now. Yeah,

37:28

are you really like 2016 on no,

37:30

I think in The

37:33

during the Trump era, all we had to do

37:35

in the first Trump on point now, all we had

37:37

to do was point out that what Trump was

37:39

doing was bad and cruel and stupid and counterproductive. And

37:41

we actually quite effective for that. Like I was

37:43

looking at the polling today, Trump was

37:45

underwater on immigration for almost every single day

37:47

of his first term. Yes. Just this idea.

37:50

guess I think I'm sorry. I think the

37:52

reaction, the reaction from

37:54

Democrats in the 2020 primary

37:56

to. The prior four years

37:58

was an example of misreading

38:00

what the anger about Trump

38:02

on immigration was all about.

38:04

Yes, 100%. But for a

38:06

long time, we had a

38:08

very good message on immigration,

38:10

which was border security, keep

38:12

people safe, have a path to

38:14

citizenship for people who have been here a long time,

38:16

are a part of the community, have them go

38:19

to the back of the line, pay back taxes, whatever.

38:21

There was a method that tested for that to

38:23

this day. Are you saying we're a nation of immigrants

38:25

and a nation of laws? just

38:27

Barack Obama's message. Well, I mean,

38:29

that position still to this day

38:31

gets majority of support. And when

38:33

we constrain the image only to

38:35

the way that Trump wants to

38:37

talk about it, like, I

38:40

think what we did wrong, and I

38:42

think it's still keeping people from doing it

38:44

for a lot of people from talking

38:46

about this in the right way is we

38:48

really accepted Trump's premise. Like

38:50

he created, this is something the right Trump

38:52

and the right wing media did very successfully, which

38:54

is they created this image

38:56

of an eye of they took legitimate

38:58

issues around chaos at the border of

39:00

migrants coming here seeking asylum and Turned

39:02

it into an invasion by ms. 13

39:04

and trend a arragua. They turned it

39:07

into this idea that there was this

39:09

wave of crime from migrants and undocumented

39:11

immigrants that you were unsafe for them

39:13

because of this and that wasn't actually

39:15

the case but we accepted that premise

39:17

in our messaging Right, we were like

39:19

we said last week. We're trying to

39:21

out tough Trump on the border as

39:23

opposed to talking about how you do

39:25

it and he is suffering this and

39:27

if I was in the White House

39:29

and That was the White House where

39:31

you're from which is really a hard

39:33

thing to imagine but if I were

39:35

These numbers would scare the shit out

39:37

of me, right? Like you have a

39:39

two -pronged reason why you're president the

39:41

economy and immigration and you're not underwater

39:43

on both and we haven't even hit

39:45

the hundred -day mark I think it's also

39:47

a lesson for Democrats that like if

39:49

you pick fights about issues where First

39:51

of all, you think it's wrong and

39:53

it's, it's urgent to speak out, but

39:55

also you sort of sense that what

39:57

the politician is doing, what Trump is

39:59

doing is unpopular. Like you

40:01

can have these issues break through, right?

40:03

Like there could have been, when he

40:05

sent a Brego Garcia to Salvador, when

40:07

he's, I'll salvador to this prison, when

40:09

he deported, we could have said, okay,

40:12

you know what, since he's so strong

40:14

on immigration, we just shouldn't talk about

40:16

this. But if we didn't

40:18

talk about it if Democrats all decided not

40:20

to talk about this and not to make

40:22

a big deal a bit then He probably

40:24

still would be very popular in immigration because

40:26

most people in the country wouldn't know that

40:28

it happened Yes, we have agency here. This

40:30

is the same thing happened. We just talked

40:32

about doge, right? It's the beginning of doge

40:34

It was like well we got to be

40:36

careful because a lot of Democrats and Republicans

40:38

and independents most Americans They do want government

40:40

to be more efficient and that's what he's

40:42

doing So maybe we should just be quiet

40:44

and it's like okay. Yeah, that's true if

40:46

Elon Musk was actually going in there and

40:48

making government more efficient and actually saving money

40:50

on things that were wasteful. He wasn't doing

40:52

that. So we should talk about it. And

40:54

I just think that like Trump is not

40:56

as strong as people think he is. And

40:59

he still has a lot of power and

41:01

he's still very dangerous. But the

41:03

country right now is is

41:05

not particularly happy with him. And

41:07

his approval rating continues to fall. I think

41:09

in the Pew poll. This week was at

41:11

40. And that's probably an outlier. It's probably,

41:14

it's probably around 44, 45, but it's still,

41:16

his approval ratings at a lower point right

41:18

now than almost any president at this point

41:20

in their first term, in recent memory, other

41:22

than him. And it's about to cross that

41:24

line. He's about to cross the line. He's,

41:26

I think in the average he is. Almost

41:29

seven points underwater right now, and he's

41:31

been dropping a point a week. Yes for

41:33

for a while now and this is not

41:35

to say Okay, he's getting more unpopular everyone

41:38

can just be like whew relax and

41:40

and just wait for the next election and

41:42

where it's thermostatic public opinion and everything's gonna

41:44

be fine It's to say that like we

41:46

don't need to be afraid or we

41:48

shouldn't be afraid because the more we fight

41:50

the more unpopular he gets and so like

41:52

you know Courage is contagious here. You should

41:54

go speak out. You should go keep

41:56

fighting because when we do other

41:58

people in the country who aren't paying attention

42:00

like, yeah, this is bad. I don't

42:02

like this. Which brings us to our last

42:04

topic before we get to our conversation

42:06

with Amanda. On Tuesday... The

42:09

longtime executive producer of 60 Minutes,

42:11

Bill Owens, announced that he's stepping

42:13

down, saying he can't run the

42:15

show independently anymore. This comes, of

42:17

course, after Trump called again for CBS to

42:19

lose its broadcast license over some recent segments

42:21

on 60 Minutes, and after he filed a

42:23

$20 billion lawsuit against CBS for the way

42:25

the show edited its interview with Kamala Harris,

42:28

and CBS News' parent company Paramount,

42:30

which is trying to close a

42:32

major merger, is talking about

42:34

settling. How big of a deal

42:36

do you think this is? If I was writing

42:38

a book, which I am not, about the can announce

42:40

it here if you want. I mean, you do

42:42

have a publishing arm, so maybe we should talk. No.

42:45

If I was writing a book

42:47

about the death of the

42:49

traditional objective media that dominated the

42:51

20th century and the first

42:53

part of the 21st century, the

42:56

lead anecdote would be what just happened

42:58

with Bill Owens at 60 Minutes. 60

43:00

Minutes is the flagship news show in

43:02

America. So known

43:04

for tough accountability journalism,

43:07

that if you worked at a company or

43:09

a government agency and a 60 minutes

43:11

producer called you, you wet your pants. Like

43:13

it meant you were in big trouble. And

43:16

the fact that now

43:18

even 60 minutes is

43:20

being brought to heel

43:22

by its corporate overlords

43:24

means the entire model

43:26

of big media owned

43:28

by big corporations cannot

43:31

function. There is an

43:33

inherent and irreconcilable tension

43:35

between companies with

43:37

business before the federal

43:39

government, owning media companies trying to hold

43:41

that federal government accountable. Like this is the end of

43:43

an era where we are right now. And

43:46

again, it's like, I

43:48

mean, Sherry Redstone and who

43:50

runs the Paramount trying to close a

43:52

merger. So maybe it's just all

43:54

about money for her, right? Maybe she

43:57

just wants a deal. But I

43:59

think it is for other media companies

44:01

that can, for other people in

44:03

media, for these colleges, for the law

44:05

firms, people

44:07

should fight because I think

44:09

that all of the people that

44:11

have capitulated so far are

44:14

going to look, they're not gonna

44:16

be like, oh, that was smart. They got away

44:18

early. It's gonna look bad. And

44:20

if you, and again, just we

44:22

were talking about the polling, like some

44:24

of these media companies, if you

44:26

ask people, oh, should the government be

44:28

able to sue media companies into

44:30

oblivion or threaten them or pull their

44:32

licenses because they said things that

44:34

the, Our ruler,

44:37

Donald Trump, doesn't care for. That's not fucking popular.

44:39

No one's going to think that's a good idea.

44:41

Yeah, there was very explicit polling on colleges and

44:43

museums that it shows that what Donald Trump is

44:45

using federal funding as leverage is quite a public,

44:47

even with Republicans. But what

44:49

is going on here is

44:51

just it's important to

44:53

understand that like there was

44:55

a time in which

44:57

CBS was a huge part

44:59

of the revenue at.

45:01

Paramount, CBS News in particular.

45:03

That is not true

45:05

anymore. CNN is like,

45:07

which is owned by Warner Brothers Discovery,

45:09

which is a company that by

45:12

all reporting very much wants to either

45:14

merge from another company or buy

45:16

another company. In all cases would need

45:18

approval from the FCC. And

45:20

so they are not willing to take

45:22

on water for something that is, even if

45:24

it still makes money now, they know

45:27

is in secular decline and is never coming

45:29

back. And so the thing

45:31

about I don't think

45:33

you're gonna be able to convince these

45:35

major companies to fight back, like Sherry

45:37

Redstone or some of these other companies,

45:39

like even Disney, gave in on

45:41

the George Stephanopoulos defamation suit. Like

45:43

the way you fight back here

45:46

is you support independent media, right?

45:48

And that can be ideological partisan

45:50

media, like what we have here,

45:52

pro -democracy media, like what we have here at Kirkland

45:54

Media, it could be like pro -publica and nonprofit

45:56

and independent media, but... future of media is going

45:59

to look very different than it did before and

46:01

is going to be much, is going to be

46:03

smaller, but independent from these big companies. Yeah,

46:05

that's right. All right. So as you

46:07

heard, a new episode of Polar Coaster just

46:09

dropped. Don't miss out on this exclusive

46:11

series available only at Friends at the Pod.

46:13

You can head to cricket.com slash friends

46:15

and sign up today or subscribe directly through

46:17

our Apple podcast feed. If you subscribe

46:19

by the end of April, you'll get a

46:21

30 day free trial. When we

46:23

come back, we will talk to the

46:25

founder of Run for Something and the author

46:27

of the new book, When We're in

46:29

Charge, Amanda Lipman. Podsave

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You'll love Burlington. I told

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you so. Nice

48:48

to see you guys. Welcome back to the

48:50

pod. Congrats on the new book. Thank you.

48:52

It's called When We're in Charge, The Next

48:54

Generation's Guide to Leadership. We're also psyched.

48:56

You chose to do it with Crooked Media Reads because we've all

48:58

been big fans of yours for a long time. I

49:00

am so excited to talk about it

49:02

and it feels so right for this

49:04

moment. Yes, it does. Well,

49:07

so want to spend time in

49:09

the book. I thought we could start

49:11

by checking in on Run for

49:13

Something, which is the organization you launched

49:15

after the first Trump administration with

49:17

the goal of recruiting, training, helping younger

49:19

candidates run for down ballot races

49:21

all over the country. I'll

49:23

admit that I was... worried that

49:25

after all the despair and fear

49:27

that accompanied Trump's second win, you

49:30

guys would have a tougher time finding candidates

49:32

to run. That hasn't happened. No, and I

49:34

will admit, I shared that concern. But since

49:36

Trump won in November, we have had 41

49:39

,000 young people all across the country raise

49:41

their hands to say they want to run.

49:43

Our overall pipeline has exceeded 200 ,000. That means

49:45

20 % of the people who have ever

49:47

signed up with Run for Something to say

49:49

they want to run for office have come

49:51

to us in the last five months. And

49:53

how does that compare to the first? So

49:56

in the first two years of Trump's first

49:58

term, we had 30 ,000 people sign up. So

50:00

we've already exceeded that. It is more people

50:02

than I ever could have imagined. Like our

50:04

goal for 2025 was 50 ,000. We're going

50:06

to cross that in like a month. Are

50:09

you seeing a different kind of person

50:11

stepping up, different kind of candidate or and

50:13

where are they running? So we are

50:15

getting people from all 50 states. It's pretty

50:17

commensurate with population, little more women than

50:19

men. about 70 to 75 % under the

50:21

age of 40. So it's mostly young people.

50:24

And we are seeing people step up for a

50:26

lot of the issues we've seen over the

50:28

last eight years, housing, you know, cost of housing,

50:30

reproductive health, book bans, especially in

50:32

the last few years, opioids continues to be

50:34

a big thing we hear from people. But

50:36

especially in the last five months, they are

50:38

signing up and saying, if my leaders aren't

50:40

going to fight for me, I am going

50:42

to fight for me. And I think that

50:44

in particular is a really exciting attitude we're

50:46

seeing new folks bring. That's awesome. I

50:48

saw that you were running for something that's

50:50

hosting an informational session for fired formal federal

50:52

workers. That's what I'm going to say. Tell

50:55

me a little bit about what

50:57

is going on there. Do you think

50:59

those folks make good candidates and

51:01

what is sparking their interest to run?

51:03

So we've seen hundreds of people

51:05

sign up coming specifically from conversations around

51:07

former laid off federal workers or

51:09

people who've had partners or friends or

51:11

family countless more beyond that. I

51:14

think these are folks who are already inclined

51:16

towards public service. You know, they have been working

51:18

in the federal government, not a glamorous job

51:20

all across the country, because as you guys know,

51:22

and as folks know, the federal government is

51:25

not just a DC thing. It is everywhere. And

51:27

I think for a lot of them, this is personal.

51:30

They understand intimately how government works and

51:32

affects people's lives. They're pissed

51:34

at Trump and Elon Musk for firing

51:36

them or firing their friend or

51:38

their family. And they've often not

51:40

been allowed to run for office before. Like

51:42

in most places, there's some nuance here depending

51:44

on the type of office you run and

51:46

what your job is, but generally speaking, federal

51:48

government employees have not been allowed to run

51:50

for office before. There's been some ethics violation

51:52

rules around that. They are now free to. And

51:55

they've got a lot of time on their hands

51:57

and they got a lot of rage and they're channeling

51:59

it into doing something really meaningful with it. So

52:02

I think they're going to be great candidates. If even

52:04

a couple of them end up getting on the

52:06

ballot in 2026, the stories that they'll be able to

52:08

tell both about why they're mad and how they've

52:10

committed to their community are to be really powerful. Are

52:12

these like former scientists, former all

52:14

across the board or? Park rangers, former

52:16

scientists, former fellows doing like weather

52:19

research, you know, former VA people, doctors

52:21

and healthcare professionals who are working

52:23

in the government, all kinds of

52:25

experts who've really like done meaningful

52:27

work and shown how government can make people's lives

52:29

better, which most people don't get to hear their stories.

52:33

This is your book is largely about this,

52:35

but the debate about the generational divide

52:37

the Democratic Party has been brewing for a

52:39

long time. It's

52:41

obviously picked up based

52:43

since this election, since the

52:45

end of Biden's presidency. How

52:48

do you think about generational split?

52:50

Is it really... Age or is

52:53

it styled to right we obviously

52:55

have folks like Bernie Sanders who?

52:58

Is much older but is very popular young people

53:00

and probably campaigns and talks about politics in

53:02

a way that makes young people excited So talk

53:04

to me a little about that split and

53:06

where you think it's going obviously no generation is

53:08

a monolith We have seen older leaders like

53:10

senator Sanders rise to the occasion and really prove

53:12

they can can fight and communicate in this

53:14

moment that being said I don't think it's a

53:16

coincidence that many of the folks who have

53:19

risen up, who have shown their backbone and who

53:21

have proven they can communicate about that fight

53:23

in this moment are some of the younger leaders.

53:25

And I would say it is both age

53:27

sort of, you know, millennials and Gen

53:30

Z folks will give younger Gen X a

53:32

little of credit here. But

53:34

it is also like people whose

53:36

political awakening has been since Trump, like

53:39

people who first got into politics

53:41

post 2015, 2016, who have a very

53:43

clear -eyed understanding of who the Republican

53:45

Party is, is not George W.

53:47

Bush's Republican Party, it's not John McCain's,

53:49

it's not Mitt Romney's, it is

53:51

Trump's. And they know who the opponent

53:53

is and that these are not

53:55

good faith partners in governance. And

53:58

because they're comfortable online, like

54:00

I like to joke, these are candidates and

54:02

electeds who run their own Instagram accounts, which is

54:05

pretty unusual. They understand

54:07

how to express that in

54:09

this moment. How do you

54:11

think this next generation of leaders

54:13

should be responding to Trump 2 .0?

54:15

Like how do we end what you've

54:17

called the bad boomer leadership that's

54:20

taken over the Democratic Party? You know,

54:22

I think it's a couple things.

54:24

I think again being clear -eyed about

54:26

who the Republican Party is and who

54:28

they are not, I think being

54:30

willing to like channel whatever it is

54:32

they're really mad about and communicate

54:34

it, you know, we we have this

54:37

moment in which authenticity or this

54:39

perceived authenticity is so important for candidates

54:41

and it is especially important for

54:43

newer candidates who are trying to prove

54:45

themselves and build trust with voters. When

54:49

we talk about what messaging we should be

54:51

on or what fight should we take on,

54:53

pick the fight that makes you the maddest

54:55

and talk about it. Because if you're talking

54:57

about the thing that you aren't actually that

54:59

riled up about, it's gonna come through and

55:01

it's not gonna connect with people. The

55:04

other thing I would say is that

55:06

especially in this moment, like being unafraid to

55:08

have the conversation in as many places

55:10

as possible. This

55:12

is something I think people who haven't

55:14

relatively new to public service and to politics

55:17

can do a little bit better, not

55:19

exclusively, but can do a little bit better

55:21

because they are normal people who just

55:23

happen to have fallen into public service as

55:25

opposed to people who've been in office

55:27

for 20 or 30 years and don't know

55:29

what normal people talk about anymore. So

55:32

I think that's one of the many distinctions. We

55:34

haven't talked about this in the

55:37

pod yet, but I'm sure you've heard

55:39

about DNC vice -chair David Hogg pledging

55:41

$20 million to primary older Democrats

55:43

in safe seats. What do you think

55:45

of the strategy? Any risks? Whether

55:48

or not David as a DNC leader

55:50

is the right person to do this is

55:52

sort of a separate question. That I

55:54

think the DNC is trying to handle as

55:56

we speak. That seems like a

55:58

them problem. I do think

56:00

it is worth encouraging open primaries. Primaries

56:03

are how we as a party decide

56:05

what we believe. Parties are where candidates get

56:07

a chance to prove their medal in

56:09

safe territory, especially in all these safe blue

56:11

districts. That's where we get our Democratic

56:13

leaders from. It's not a coincidence that much

56:16

of the Democratic leadership is from New

56:18

York, California, and Illinois. Those are

56:20

safe seats, so the people who can rise there

56:22

tend to be both the cream of the crop,

56:24

ideally, and can really, ideally,

56:26

model what the party is standing

56:28

for in this moment. I

56:30

think if you're an incumbent who's doing

56:32

a good job, you've got a pretty high

56:34

chance of winning a primary. Like incumbents

56:36

have something like a 95 % reelection rate. If

56:39

you are doing a good job of meeting your constituents

56:41

where they are, you should have nothing to worry about. I

56:44

think it's telling that some of these incumbents

56:46

are a little spooked, because they know they're not

56:48

quite where their voters want them to be. Yeah,

56:51

I'm very torn about this. I

56:53

very much agree. Open primaries are good.

56:55

We 100 % need a new generation

56:57

of leadership. in a

56:59

world in which most incumbents are gonna

57:01

win their election, then the only way

57:03

you're, there's gonna be there until they

57:06

leave. Like, if you went, like Adam

57:08

Schiff can be Senator from California for

57:10

the rest of his life every once. Right,

57:12

like that is gonna be He could literally die

57:14

in office as previous Senator from California have done. I

57:16

mean, there might be some past precedent there, but

57:19

I guess. Either leave on your own or in a

57:21

cop. Yes. Cool

57:24

slogan for the United States Senate. Absolutely.

57:27

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

57:29

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

57:33

Absolutely. Absolutely.

57:36

Absolutely. Absolutely.

57:55

We need run for something. We need invisible.

57:57

We need swing laughs. We need more

57:59

progressive media, more content. Like, what

58:01

do you think about $20 million to this effort? I

58:04

think it's a drop in the bucket compared to what we

58:06

spend on a lot of federal races. I

58:08

also think most of these primary candidates are going

58:11

to be funded by grassroots donors. They're not going to

58:13

get a lot of institutional money. You

58:16

know I will say run for something's budget

58:18

this year is only seven and a half million

58:20

dollars and we're expecting to work with about

58:23

300 candidates in every state there's an election. We've

58:25

already won I think 20 some odd races

58:27

this year. There's a lot of

58:29

ways that we could spend money on politics and

58:31

there will always be more money even when

58:33

I wish there were different rules around it so

58:35

if your goal is to get new leaders

58:37

in that particular space that's certainly one way you

58:39

could do it. I think my

58:41

way is also really exciting. Another option would

58:43

be to donate to run for something. I'll

58:45

say it for you. Thank you, run for

58:48

something .net slash donate. You know, $5 goes

58:50

a long way. I kind of think you

58:52

just, we should all be consistent on it.

58:54

If you're for, you know, primaries and competitive

58:56

primaries, that's true for, if you're worried about

58:58

what the result may be, it's true if

59:00

you want the result to be a different

59:02

way. And I think we're probably stronger as

59:05

a party, especially the democracy party, if we're

59:07

allowing this to happen. And it's really scary

59:09

to trust voters. But like if we're empowering

59:11

candidates to run good campaigns, then we should. And

59:14

I think that's like the key here is

59:16

we should give candidates, and this is what

59:18

run for something does, is empower candidates to

59:20

make the best possible argument to their voters

59:22

and then let voters decide. Even if voters

59:24

sometimes make decisions I wouldn't agree with, that's

59:26

voters call. Which has happened recently. Let's

59:29

talk about your wonderful book, which isn't

59:31

just advice for young people running for office.

59:34

It's for young people who are stepping

59:36

into leadership roles or planning to step into

59:38

leadership roles across business, nonprofits. What

59:40

made you want to broaden the focus? So

59:43

I know politics. I've worked

59:45

now with thousands of candidates running

59:47

for office. I knew I

59:49

didn't know enough about what leadership looked like outside

59:51

of this space. So when I

59:53

was going in to write the book, I put

59:55

out a call to interview as many people

59:57

from as many different kinds of spaces as I

59:59

could. And I ended up having in -depth conversations

1:00:01

with more than 135 different leaders from a

1:00:03

variety of sectors. I talked to faith

1:00:06

leaders and doctors and teachers. I

1:00:08

talked to tech CEOs. I talked to the

1:00:10

CEO of Snapchat, Evan Spiegel. I also talked to

1:00:12

the editor -in -chief of Teen Vogue. I also

1:00:14

talked to Maxwell Frost, a member of Congress. And

1:00:18

I heard so many

1:00:20

themes echo across those conversations.

1:00:23

You know, the partner in the law firm

1:00:25

in Chicago had a slightly different take

1:00:27

on the 80 -year -old partner who she had

1:00:29

to do notes in the dictaphone for,

1:00:31

as opposed to the rabbi who said the

1:00:33

person she replaced in Wisconsin had never

1:00:35

taken a day off in 30 years behind

1:00:37

the pulpit. And she was like, I'm

1:00:39

a mom of two kids. Like, I can't

1:00:41

do that. But the

1:00:43

themes were the same. And I

1:00:45

think that to me was emblematic

1:00:47

of the fact that across different

1:00:50

sectors, across different spaces, really across

1:00:52

the country, and even I talked

1:00:54

to a few folks in Europe and in

1:00:56

England, details were a little different there, they have

1:00:58

better healthcare, the

1:01:00

challenges that next -gen leaders, what I would

1:01:02

collectively call next -gen leaders, millennials and Gen

1:01:04

Z are facing are the same, and

1:01:06

that we didn't have a playbook on how

1:01:08

to solve them. So that's what I

1:01:10

tried to write was the guide that honestly,

1:01:12

I wish I had had when I

1:01:14

started run for something eight and a half

1:01:16

years ago of like, how do you

1:01:18

do this in a way that is better

1:01:20

than every boss I've ever had before?

1:01:22

I was going to say, how did your

1:01:25

own experience with leadership roles at run

1:01:27

for something and other places inspire what you

1:01:29

wrote? You know, when I started run

1:01:31

for something, I was 26, about to turn

1:01:33

27, was single. was having a good time. I

1:01:36

had never run a company before. I'd never

1:01:38

written a budget before. I'd managed people. I'd managed

1:01:40

teams a few times. But I

1:01:42

knew that if this was going to last,

1:01:44

if I was going to build an organization that

1:01:46

was sustainable and that would do this work

1:01:48

for a long time, because it was important that

1:01:50

I thought this work needed a long runway

1:01:52

to succeed, that I built a team and ran

1:01:54

my company in a way that reflected that. So

1:01:57

that was everything from how we could

1:01:59

provide the best possible healthcare to people, how

1:02:01

we could pay people as well as

1:02:03

possible, how we could have work -life integration

1:02:05

and work -rest integration. Like, I didn't want

1:02:07

to work campaign hours for eight or 10 years. Now,

1:02:10

eight and a half years later, I have two

1:02:12

kids, like a two and a half year old and

1:02:14

a seven month old. I don't

1:02:16

have the time to work 100 hour

1:02:18

weeks anymore, and I don't want to.

1:02:21

But the work is still really important.

1:02:23

So I write a ton in

1:02:25

When We're In Charge about my experience

1:02:27

creating this organization that functions a

1:02:29

little differently than any other political organization,

1:02:32

although some now have come our

1:02:34

way, including things like a four -day

1:02:36

work week, as

1:02:38

really good healthcare, really good benefits,

1:02:41

things like a sabbatical policy, but

1:02:43

also transparency policies internally that

1:02:45

allow us to really communicate with

1:02:47

people in a way that

1:02:49

brings them in and helps guide

1:02:51

where we're going. And

1:02:53

the challenges that I faced, you know, when

1:02:55

I went to take maternity leave with my

1:02:57

first daughter and I Googled, how do I

1:02:59

take maternity leave as the boss? All I

1:03:01

could find was how to ask your boss

1:03:03

for maternity leave, which one, damning indictment of

1:03:05

the United States, but two, you

1:03:07

know, really telling of like what kind of resources

1:03:10

there are for leaders who want to model

1:03:12

the values we put into practice. You

1:03:14

and I have talked about this before,

1:03:16

um, since we've both had similar experiences here,

1:03:18

but can you get into some of

1:03:20

the challenges you faced being a millennial? at

1:03:22

the top of an organization with a

1:03:24

lot of Gen Z ears. It's

1:03:26

so hard. And

1:03:28

you know, it wasn't just things that I faced.

1:03:30

I heard this from all of the people I

1:03:32

talked to. The similar kinds of

1:03:34

demands for transparency that in the same

1:03:36

way you can Google something or get

1:03:39

a Yelp review on something, we

1:03:41

want that at work. We want to be able to

1:03:43

get every answer we want whenever we want it. I

1:03:45

heard this from folks about things that

1:03:48

they wanted work to provide something that work

1:03:50

is not the right space to hold.

1:03:52

And I write about this in the book

1:03:54

of work cannot be your only source

1:03:56

of identity, your only source of friendship, your

1:03:58

only source of your physical or mental

1:04:00

health, your well -being. It is first and

1:04:02

foremost an economic relationship. And

1:04:04

ideally, as the leader, you are creating space

1:04:06

where people have the time and resources

1:04:08

to be full people outside of it. One

1:04:11

of the challenges that basically every millennial and

1:04:13

Gen Z leader I talked to named was

1:04:15

that they're managing millennials and Gen Z. And

1:04:17

that is both a blessing and a curse.

1:04:20

Yes, yes. We could do a whole

1:04:22

other episode on that. Love

1:04:25

our Gen Z staffers. Love you all. Great

1:04:28

lesson in the book. We don't dream of labor. Can

1:04:30

you unpack that a little bit and how it applies

1:04:32

to what we're all going through right now? Okay,

1:04:35

so the internet says this is a James Baldwin quote,

1:04:37

but I cannot find any proof of that. So make

1:04:39

of that while you will. The full

1:04:41

quote here is that I do not have a dream

1:04:43

job because I do not dream of labor. I

1:04:46

think that is so important. especially

1:04:49

in this moment where we are

1:04:51

looking to do so much more than

1:04:53

our work, that your job just cannot

1:04:55

be everything. And a nightmare

1:04:57

is a kind of dream

1:04:59

too. Sometimes your dream job could

1:05:01

actually be horrific. I

1:05:03

think it is really on the shoulders of

1:05:05

the person in charge of the leader. And

1:05:08

I write on how to do this to

1:05:10

make it clear that you should have a

1:05:12

place at work where you can do your

1:05:14

job and know what success looks like and

1:05:16

that you don't have to be miserable every

1:05:18

day doing it, but it also doesn't need

1:05:20

to be the only place you find fulfillment.

1:05:23

It's hard. It's hard, especially in the

1:05:25

business that we're all in, in politics,

1:05:27

because it is a mission and you

1:05:29

do care, but you've got to

1:05:31

separate it at some point. I talked to

1:05:33

a pastor who really spoke to this

1:05:36

Marshall Hatch in Chicago who told me, I

1:05:38

feel like my work is a calling,

1:05:40

but also... there could be lots of calls.

1:05:42

There could be lots of different ringtones in this

1:05:44

call. It can look different and that doesn't mean

1:05:47

that there's a wrong way to love your job,

1:05:49

but it can also be really dangerous when you

1:05:51

love your job so much that it eats you

1:05:53

up and spits you out. You

1:05:55

talked about being a working mom now. What

1:05:58

have you learned about rest not just

1:06:00

for yourself, but as something leaders need

1:06:02

to model for their teams? You

1:06:04

know, so run for something has a four -day work

1:06:06

week. which is the only way I was able to

1:06:08

write this book, run the organization. At the time, I

1:06:10

had a one -year -old and I was pregnant. I

1:06:13

did that because we had Fridays. So

1:06:15

all through 2024, I would

1:06:17

spend Fridays not resting, but working on

1:06:19

this in a way that was also really

1:06:22

creatively fulfilling and gave me like a

1:06:24

different kind of joy than my day job.

1:06:27

I think a lot about what it means as the

1:06:29

boss to model rest for my team. Like we

1:06:31

really do take Fridays off. We don't have emails, we

1:06:33

don't have meetings. When we're done with the

1:06:35

day at around 5 .30, 6 o 'clock, we log off. On

1:06:38

weekends, yeah, like sometimes you might have to work

1:06:40

on a weekend, like any job. Sometimes you have

1:06:42

to go to the event or like, you know,

1:06:44

there's the emergency, whatever. But generally

1:06:47

speaking, you can count on weekends

1:06:49

to be your own. And I

1:06:51

think about the way that... -day work week, the

1:06:53

clear boundaries about our time have made me

1:06:55

a better boss, a better leader, but also

1:06:57

such a better parent and a better partner.

1:07:00

Like I am so much better at going

1:07:02

into a full 48 hours of parenting after

1:07:04

I got to spend Friday. Yeah, maybe doing

1:07:06

some book stuff or some writing, but also

1:07:08

go to yoga class, get my nails done,

1:07:10

see a friend, lounge on the

1:07:12

couch and watch Grey's Anatomy for three hours. Like

1:07:14

whatever it is, I'm a better parent and a

1:07:16

better partner because of that. like

1:07:19

in politics, right? The culture,

1:07:21

it like, it is the worst version

1:07:23

of like, quote unquote, hustle culture, right? Like you were

1:07:25

supposed to be working all the time. And if you're

1:07:27

not working all the time, like in

1:07:29

the way it's understood by so many people, if

1:07:31

you're not working all the time, then either

1:07:34

you're doing something wrong or you're not important enough

1:07:36

to be working all the time. So everyone's

1:07:38

trying to work all the time. How have you

1:07:40

been able to run a political organization not

1:07:42

on that sort of 24 seven treadmill that so

1:07:44

much of politics and media seems to operate

1:07:46

on? can

1:07:48

be very discerning here. My

1:07:51

mission is urgent and important. Not

1:07:54

every task in service of that

1:07:56

mission is urgent or important. And

1:07:59

so being really thoughtful and

1:08:01

rigorous about prioritization, about how we're

1:08:03

spending time in meetings or

1:08:05

together, knowing they're like,

1:08:07

yeah, a couple weeks before election day, you might

1:08:09

have to work a little bit more, but you

1:08:11

cannot do this work year in, year out if

1:08:13

you are burning the candle at both ends. Like

1:08:16

you will hate yourself and you

1:08:18

won't be as good at it. I

1:08:20

don't think anyone who's working 100

1:08:22

hour weeks is doing that because those

1:08:24

hours 60 to 100 are their

1:08:26

best hours. You're not getting your

1:08:28

best stuff. I think

1:08:30

it is so necessary for leaders to model

1:08:32

those boundaries and also to staff in

1:08:34

such a way that you don't have to

1:08:36

ask that for people. I

1:08:39

reject the premise that you have

1:08:41

to be working around the clock

1:08:43

to be getting the most possible

1:08:45

things done. Like, efficacy and humane,

1:08:47

compassionate leadership are not mutually exclusive.

1:08:50

Yeah. Last question, you talked

1:08:52

to more than 100 young leaders

1:08:54

for the book. Was there a moment

1:08:56

or a conversation that surprised you

1:08:58

or changed how you thought about leadership?

1:09:01

Oh, that's such a good question. I

1:09:04

was surprised at how

1:09:07

many things I heard

1:09:09

in common. I

1:09:11

was surprised and maybe not... retrospect, it's not

1:09:13

surprising at all. How many people would tell

1:09:15

me, I want to be myself in my

1:09:17

role? I want to be authentic. I want

1:09:19

to bring my real self, not my full

1:09:21

self, but my real self to work, because

1:09:23

I actually don't think work is the right

1:09:25

place for my full self. I want to

1:09:27

be this. And then I would ask them,

1:09:29

great, do you think you can be yourself

1:09:31

with your team? And I memorably remember someone

1:09:33

being like, oh, fuck no. Absolutely

1:09:36

not. And I think

1:09:38

that tension. That's

1:09:40

the point of the book is how do

1:09:42

you navigate that tension? How do you

1:09:44

perform yourself authentically while still not performing yourself

1:09:46

at all? And like, how do you

1:09:48

post on social media when your team follows

1:09:50

you there? And how do you be

1:09:52

transparent? But also if you open the books

1:09:54

too much, people are going to see

1:09:56

things they're actually not prepared or able to

1:09:58

see. And how do you think about

1:10:00

your career? Like when the ladders that we

1:10:02

have climbed no longer exist and the

1:10:04

path that our parents or grandparents took has

1:10:06

just been like blown up. How do

1:10:08

you do that? Like those tensions

1:10:10

like I hearing that from so many people and then

1:10:12

the last couple weeks I've been going back to

1:10:14

all the folks I talked to for the book to

1:10:16

be like, Hey, so excited. This is coming out.

1:10:18

Can't wait to send you a copy. And

1:10:20

so many of them wrote back to me,

1:10:23

but like that conversation stuck with me. Like no

1:10:25

one had ever really asked like how, how

1:10:27

does it feel to do this hard thing? And

1:10:30

I'll say the final thing that really

1:10:32

stuck with me and has been like

1:10:34

sort of my mantra for much of

1:10:36

honestly the last eight years was how many

1:10:38

people would tell me I feel like

1:10:40

I am doing a hard thing and

1:10:42

it is, it is hard not because

1:10:44

I'm personally failing, but because like it is

1:10:46

fundamentally a hard thing. Like I

1:10:48

am trying to push a rock up a mountain and no

1:10:50

matter how strong you are or how high the mountain is,

1:10:52

it's going to be hard. And I,

1:10:54

you know, we tell this to candidates when they're

1:10:57

running for office, running for office is hard. No

1:10:59

matter how good you are, our job is to

1:11:01

make it a little bit easier, like around the

1:11:03

logistics, leading in this moment in a way that

1:11:05

treats people right, but also gets the job done

1:11:07

is difficult. It is also like

1:11:09

running for office so worth it It's

1:11:11

so worth it both for me and

1:11:13

for you and for all of us

1:11:15

as leaders, but also for the people

1:11:17

you lead I'm sure that's why one

1:11:19

of the reasons that people appreciated the

1:11:21

conversations with you and the question so

1:11:23

much because Just being asked. Yeah, how

1:11:25

are you feeling? How are

1:11:27

you doing it? What does it mean to you

1:11:30

like you don't? ever get that question. Especially

1:11:32

when you're in charge of folks like it's

1:11:34

not their job to ask you that question

1:11:36

and like your partner or your therapist has

1:11:38

probably heard it all more than that. So

1:11:40

I think it's really important to take a step

1:11:42

back and really reflect like what kind of leader

1:11:44

am I am I living up to the values

1:11:46

I've laid out am I prepared to deal with

1:11:48

the criticism that I will inevitably get and am

1:11:50

I doing this in a way that I can

1:11:52

feel good about. Well,

1:11:54

all the answers to all those questions. When we're in

1:11:56

charge. Right in the book. It comes

1:11:59

out May 13th. The book is When We're in

1:12:01

Charge, The Next Generation's Guide to Leadership. It's a

1:12:03

fantastic book. You can pre -order it now

1:12:05

at cricket.com slash books or anywhere you like to

1:12:07

get books. Amanda Lipman, good seeing you. Thanks for

1:12:09

guys. Thanks for stopping by. Good to talk to

1:12:11

you. That's

1:12:16

our show for today. Before we

1:12:18

go, there was one quick breaking news

1:12:21

development. that we got that we

1:12:23

should know what happened. Well, we learned the full

1:12:25

Chinese proverb, which we did. We did not

1:12:27

apparently have. No, it is whoever ties the bell

1:12:29

on the tiger's neck has to untie it.

1:12:31

OK, I was saying everything I said that makes

1:12:33

complete sense that there's a reason that's a

1:12:35

proverb. And it's it was dumb of me to

1:12:37

even question something that was I assumed thousands

1:12:40

of years old. I mean, I could do a

1:12:42

five minute thing on who the fuck is

1:12:44

tying bells on Tigers next, but you know what?

1:12:46

We're not going to do it. You know

1:12:48

what? If we keep talking, someone's going to tell

1:12:50

us why that is when we have to

1:12:52

do another correction. So let's get out of here

1:12:54

fast. All right. Thanks to Amanda Lipman for

1:12:56

joining us. Everyone have a great weekend. We'll have

1:12:59

a new show in your feeds on Tuesday.

1:13:01

Bye, everyone. Also,

1:13:16

be sure to follow Podsave America on

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1:13:20

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1:13:24

button, you can help boost this episode by leaving

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us a review and by sharing it with friends

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and family. Jordan

1:13:44

Cantor is our sound engineer with audio

1:13:46

support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

1:13:49

Madeleine Herringer is our head of news and program.

1:13:51

Matt DeGroote is our head of production. Naomi

1:13:53

Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks

1:13:55

to our digital team, Elijah Cone,

1:13:57

Hailey Jones, Ben Hefkot, Mia Kelman,

1:13:59

Molly Lobel, Kirill Pelleve and David

1:14:01

Tolles. Our production staff is proudly

1:14:03

unionized with the Writers Guild of

1:14:05

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1:14:50

at KFC, Tuesday is $10 Tuesday,

1:14:52

Which means you can get

1:14:54

eight hot, juicy drums and thighs

1:14:56

for just $10. Let me

1:14:58

say that again. Eight pieces of

1:15:00

hot, juicy original recipe chicken, hand

1:15:02

breaded in 11 herbs and

1:15:04

spices. All for just

1:15:06

$10. every Tuesday. Only at

1:15:08

KFC. Guess Tuesday isn't just

1:15:10

Tuesday anymore. It's finger -licking good. Prices

1:15:12

and participation may vary. Tax tips and

1:15:15

fees extra.