0:00

Podcasting 2.0 for March 7, 2025,

0:02

episode 213, the Substrate. Oh yeah,

0:04

baby, hello everybody, welcome once again

0:07

to podcasting 2.0, it is the

0:09

only... podcast you need to listen

0:12

to. Except for those five others

0:14

that we listen to. It's a

0:16

great podcast because it's not a

0:19

podcast. It is a meeting of

0:21

the board of directors of the

0:23

future of podcasting. It's all being

0:26

done right now. In fact, we

0:28

are the only boardroom that never charges

0:30

a tariff. I'm Adam Curry here in the

0:32

heart of the Texas Hill country and in

0:35

Alabama, the man who always says yes first

0:37

and figures it out later. Say hello to

0:39

my friend on the other end, the one,

0:41

the only Mr. Day! That

0:49

was a long one. Yeah,

0:51

I was worried about you

0:53

running out of steam. Come

0:55

on. Come on man. I'm

0:57

a I'm a professional pronunciation

0:59

I went to school I

1:02

went to the Connecticut School

1:04

of Broadcasting You know we're

1:06

talking about the roadcaster in

1:08

the boardroom before the show

1:10

and yeah, we had we

1:12

had a similar discussion at

1:14

my day job this morning

1:16

about a roadcaster No,

1:18

no, no, this is about the, like,

1:20

it's about the IT, you could

1:22

dub it the IT Indian burial

1:25

ground effect. Please do

1:27

expand. Are you, we've,

1:29

you've, you've experienced this,

1:31

you just don't know

1:33

it. Okay. We've all

1:36

experienced this, this is, this is

1:38

when you get something working,

1:40

so you get a

1:42

computer working permit, perfectly,

1:45

everything works fine. You

1:47

deliver it to the end user

1:49

and it screws up horribly. Oh,

1:51

yes. Then you go and get

1:54

it. And it works fine. And

1:56

bring it back to your office

1:58

and it works fine. again. You

2:00

can't find anything wrong. You

2:03

re-deliver it to the end

2:05

user and it continues to

2:07

work fine. Wait a minute.

2:09

What is this called? This

2:12

is the IT Indian burial

2:14

ground. Okay. This is somehow,

2:16

do you know, have you

2:18

seen the movie, Jeremiah Johnson?

2:20

No. With Robert Redford? No.

2:23

You haven't seen this movie?

2:25

I can say no again.

2:27

A must watch. Okay. What,

2:29

Jeremiah Johnson? This has got

2:32

to be the 70s. Early

2:34

70s maybe? Chairman Johnson Robert

2:36

Redford. Yeah? Huh. What year?

2:38

72. Yeah, this is 1972.

2:40

You need to watch this

2:43

movie. It's a great movie.

2:45

But, you know, so the

2:47

sort of the plot of

2:49

this movie is long, by

2:51

the way. I want to

2:54

say it's like. It

2:56

says an hour and 48 minutes,

2:58

it's gotta be longer than an

3:00

hour and 48 minutes. But anyway,

3:03

so the plot of this movie

3:05

or one of the plots of

3:07

this movie is, you know, they

3:09

go through an Indian burial ground.

3:11

Oh, this is where the meme

3:14

is from. Yes, yes, yes, yeah,

3:16

yeah, the Robert Redford look at

3:18

doing the nod, yeah, yeah, yeah,

3:20

yeah, okay, I recognize it, sure,

3:22

I have not seen it, I'm

3:25

pretty sure I haven't. Okay, so

3:27

part you know part of the

3:29

subplot of this movie is that

3:31

They they run they're trying to

3:33

get somewhere quick and they run

3:36

up on this Indian burial ground

3:38

and Their guide says hey we

3:40

know we can't we can't we

3:42

can't go through this and this

3:44

is Sacred land and you're only

3:46

allowed to go in once a

3:49

year or something like that to

3:51

do like a ceremony or something

3:53

and You know you can't you

3:55

can't go in here. It's curt

3:57

or you'll be cursed or you'll

4:00

be cursed And they're like, oh

4:02

man, we're in this, we're in

4:04

the middle of this ravine if

4:06

we have to backtrack and go

4:08

around. take like two more two

4:11

extra days and so they just

4:13

kind of like look you know

4:15

look around a little bit make

4:17

sure anybody's watching and then they

4:19

just like me a book it

4:22

through the Indian barrel middle of

4:24

the Indian burial ground you know

4:26

of course this ends up very

4:28

very bad for them because now

4:30

for the rest of the movie

4:33

they start getting tailed by and

4:35

like attacked by these Native American

4:37

warriors and you never exactly you

4:39

can say engines it's okay Oh

4:41

yeah, India, I think I said

4:43

Native Americans. I think that, I

4:46

like the term Native Americans. They

4:48

don't. They don't. They like American

4:50

Indians. I like American Indians, but

4:52

I, okay, American Indians, they get,

4:54

they get tailed and attacked by

4:57

these American Indians that, that you're

4:59

never exactly sure if they're real

5:01

or if they're sort of like

5:03

spirits, you know, they're taking vengeance.

5:05

for their for their violation of

5:08

this, you know, desecration of this

5:10

Indian bear ground. But eventually, the,

5:12

uh, they, it's determined they somehow

5:14

paid their dues or whatever, you

5:16

know, they've, they've, they've been hurt

5:19

enough to where, you know, you

5:21

know, so I think, I think

5:23

what we determined was when, what

5:25

happens is you somehow you've. You've

5:27

violated some spirit, you've desecrated the

5:30

IT spirits. And then you're being

5:32

punished. And the walking back and

5:34

forth and having to eat crow

5:36

from this user, you do that

5:38

enough times and eventually you satisfy

5:40

the spirits and the curses lifted

5:43

and now this laptop works. That's

5:45

our running theory. That's the philosophy.

5:47

Okay, I get it. Now I

5:49

see how it goes. Yeah, nothing

5:51

else makes sense. Yeah, I get

5:54

it. So that's the same with

5:56

the roadcaster. Yeah, it doesn't it

5:58

doesn't make Can you say you,

6:00

the roadcaster, the roadcaster messes up

6:02

and it, excuse me, it works

6:05

best when you run it and

6:07

then at some point it gets

6:09

the curse and you have to,

6:11

you know, you have to reboot

6:13

it and go through the pain

6:16

of watching the reverse progress bar

6:18

and then the regular progress bar

6:20

which takes five minutes to boot.

6:22

Really? Something's wrong. It shouldn't take

6:24

that long. Something's wrong. No, that's

6:27

gotta be, you gotta get another

6:29

microSD card. That's you that's the

6:31

weakest part of the whole system.

6:33

I don't even have an SD

6:35

card in it. Oh, well, there

6:37

you go put an SD card

6:40

in it'll boot within seconds This

6:42

is this machine is is a

6:44

child in these constant supervision. Well,

6:46

it's made in Australia. So it's

6:48

probably the aboriginal spirits that are

6:51

That are also valid. Yes, also

6:53

valid. Yeah, yeah, so before we

6:55

start I've been working with you

6:57

Dave Jones for 15 years And

6:59

if you listen to the latest

7:02

Power Power podcast weekly review interview

7:04

with Adam and Dave, and you

7:06

said it quite well there, you

7:08

know, Adam comes up with some

7:10

idea, you say yes first and

7:13

then we go figure it out,

7:15

absolutely. But in 15 years, and

7:17

we've been through some things, I've

7:19

never actually seen you get irritated

7:21

by stuff people are saying to

7:23

you. And I saw it today

7:26

on the social. I

7:28

need to talk, yeah, I

7:30

need to talk. Well, let

7:32

me just say something. Don't

7:34

poke the bear people. I'm

7:36

Dave's mama bear. You gotta

7:38

go through me. You gotta

7:41

go through me at a

7:43

certain point. So when I

7:45

read things like, this is

7:47

just a boys club, the

7:49

founders, blah blah blah. Come

7:51

on. Let's be a little

7:53

mature here, shall we? With

7:56

our language, that's all I

7:58

ask for. Ahem. Yeah.

8:00

James' comments seriously ruined

8:03

my entire day. I

8:05

could tell. I noticed

8:08

it because when you

8:10

throw out an oh

8:13

lord, I mean, you're

8:15

clutching your pearls. I

8:18

mean, we got church

8:20

ladies swinging the handbags.

8:23

It really I had a

8:25

I had an argument with

8:28

my with my wife this

8:30

morning that I read that

8:32

came from this because I

8:34

was aggravated and I carried

8:36

it into my relationship. I

8:38

want to I want to

8:41

I guess I want to

8:43

talk about this in this

8:45

way The reason the reason

8:47

that I have thick skin

8:49

99% of the time on

8:51

on this project is because

8:54

if I it's a self-defense

8:56

mechanism If I don't, if

8:58

I let this stuff get

9:00

to me, it really gets

9:02

me hard. And I cannot

9:04

deal properly with it in

9:07

my own life. So sometimes

9:09

if you think you're being

9:11

ignored, it's because it's for

9:13

a good reason. It's because

9:15

I'm trying to keep my

9:17

emotional and mental distance from

9:20

criticism. I see you Chad

9:22

F. Yes. And I realized

9:24

that after I said. I

9:26

was normally I would have

9:28

said, uh, that's what she

9:30

said. But you were in

9:33

such a serious mode. I'm

9:35

like, I'm like, oh man,

9:37

he had a fight with

9:39

Melissa. I was like, I

9:41

can't believe what he just

9:43

said. I'm holding my tongue.

9:46

Like, that's what she said.

9:48

Okay, let me read, let

9:50

me go back to. It

9:52

really gets to me hard.

9:54

How about that? That still

9:56

sounds kind of bad. Not

9:59

bad. Okay, okay, it's better.

10:01

Let me go. Let me

10:03

let me do a deep

10:05

cut back into into the

10:07

history of It lands heavy.

10:09

Yeah, there you go. Thank

10:12

you much better Zoz B

10:14

Zobee Zobee Zobee Yes, it

10:16

lands heavy. Thank you. Thank

10:18

you. Let's strike that from

10:20

the record No, no, there'll

10:22

be no edit Sort of

10:25

a deep cut back into

10:27

our project history, the, when

10:29

we had, we were in

10:31

this project with Dave Weiner

10:33

called the, the World Outline.

10:35

Yeah, the, yeah, EC2 for

10:38

Poets. And those, I think

10:40

those Google groups are still

10:42

out there. You can just

10:44

search for EC2 for Poets

10:46

and you can see the

10:48

stuff that we were doing.

10:51

But the way that that

10:53

whole project ultimately blew up,

10:55

Was a few things that

10:57

happened back to back One

10:59

of them was deal one

11:01

of them had to deal

11:03

with you in your interaction

11:06

with Dave and one of

11:08

them had to do with

11:10

me in my interaction with

11:12

Dave and This what? What

11:14

happened was I made a

11:16

code change on your on

11:19

your machine. Gosh, you remember

11:21

this stuff I've forgotten all

11:23

about and please go deep.

11:25

I want to remember this

11:27

well. So the way that

11:29

this project worked was Dave

11:32

did all, Dave Weiner did

11:34

all of the coding in

11:36

this, what in this piece

11:38

of software called frontier, frontier

11:40

userland. And it was, it

11:42

was its own thing with

11:45

its own programming language and

11:47

it was, which is not

11:49

necessary to understand. But

11:51

if you but what what happened

11:53

was you could run you know

11:56

you could download the software and

11:58

run run his code And

12:01

so it had the appearance

12:03

of an open source project.

12:05

But what you found out

12:07

over time was the source

12:09

may have been open, but

12:11

the project itself wasn't open.

12:13

But the project really belonged

12:15

to Dave Weiner. And he

12:17

was going to be the

12:20

one that was going to

12:22

write the code and do

12:24

those kinds of things. It

12:26

doesn't, it was not open

12:28

source in the traditional sense

12:30

of being an open source

12:32

project where other people could

12:34

contribute. And so I didn't

12:36

understand that at the time

12:38

because the open source projects

12:40

I'd been involved with before

12:43

you did you did pull

12:45

requests or I mean they

12:47

weren't called that then because

12:49

this is before get even

12:51

existed. But you did code

12:53

submissions and that kind of

12:55

thing, you waited for approval,

12:57

you talked it out and

12:59

that kind of thing. That

13:01

really wasn't how this thing

13:03

went. And so what happened

13:06

was we had this river

13:08

of news HDML page, yes,

13:10

subversion, that's right, ERPP. Yeah,

13:12

this river of news that

13:14

was part of the product

13:16

or the software. And so

13:18

I was working with you,

13:20

with you, Adam, to. One

13:22

of the things that was

13:24

happening is you could follow,

13:26

back at that in those

13:28

days, you could follow a

13:31

Twitter feed as RSS. Twitter

13:33

also spawned an RSS feed

13:35

for every timeline. And so

13:37

you could follow your Twitter

13:39

timeline in your RSS reader.

13:41

A lot of people don't

13:43

remember that. But at some

13:45

point they killed the RSS

13:47

feeds. So what happened was

13:49

I created a link expander.

13:51

Some link expander code in

13:54

JavaScript that would take a

13:56

Twitter shortened URS. and expand

13:58

it into its original URL

14:00

so that you didn't have

14:02

to click through Twitter to

14:04

do it. And so you

14:06

could see where you were

14:08

going to end up going

14:10

instead of just this bland

14:12

URL that was obfuscated. And

14:14

so you were like, yeah,

14:17

I want that because I

14:19

want to be, you needed

14:21

that functionality. So I gave

14:23

you that code and you

14:25

installed it on your server.

14:28

So then Dave did

14:30

some push some more

14:32

code later and You

14:34

mentioned something to him

14:37

about this other Twitter

14:39

expander URL code and

14:41

he got very angry.

14:43

And just laid into

14:46

me Told me that

14:48

I was not allowed

14:50

to touch his quote

14:52

his code without asking

14:55

him first, and he

14:57

just basically, you know,

14:59

talk to me as

15:01

if I was a

15:04

child. This resulted in

15:06

me feeling embarrassed publicly,

15:08

ashamed, you know, like,

15:10

I had never been

15:13

talked to like this,

15:15

and I thought Dave

15:17

Weiner was this incredible,

15:19

you know. person

15:22

that I didn't want him

15:24

to lose respect for me

15:26

and all these kinds of

15:28

things. I was young. I

15:30

was probably, I guess, in

15:32

my early 30s. And so

15:35

I ended up on this

15:37

45-minute long phone call with

15:39

Dave Weiner, essentially apologizing to

15:41

him and all this kind

15:43

of stuff. And when I

15:45

was finished, you know, I

15:47

just felt... I

15:50

felt that I had no

15:52

respect for myself. I felt

15:54

that I had not... I

15:56

felt I had lost my

15:58

own integrity. Gosh, Dave was

16:01

very good at making people

16:03

feel this way. I know

16:05

exactly what you're talking about.

16:07

He has a special way

16:09

of making people feel small.

16:11

Yeah. And at that point,

16:13

I just lost every bit

16:15

of desire for this, for

16:17

the project. I hadn't, I

16:19

didn't care about it anymore.

16:22

That was pretty much it.

16:24

I was done. And Then,

16:26

you know, a couple weeks

16:28

later, you and him got

16:30

into it about a separate

16:32

issue and that the pretty

16:34

much the whole thing collapsed.

16:36

Well, he, he, I woke

16:38

up one day and he

16:40

just pulled the plug on

16:42

the servers. Right. He just

16:45

shut, I don't only remember

16:47

why, but he just shut

16:49

it down. It's like, I'm

16:51

not going to do this.

16:53

If people do that and

16:55

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

16:57

blah. Right. He shut the

16:59

servers down because of me.

17:01

in production with no agenda

17:03

and his response was RTFM.

17:06

And that was it. And

17:08

so that pretty much was

17:10

the end of it. And

17:12

so this is what I've

17:14

been afraid of with all

17:16

open source projects that I

17:18

get involved in is a

17:20

repeat of that. Because if

17:22

you make people, if you

17:24

are mean-spirited, and you try

17:26

to hurt people's feelings or

17:29

make them feel bad about

17:31

the work they're doing, that

17:33

is the result that you're

17:35

going to get. You're going

17:37

to get people who don't

17:39

want to participate and who

17:41

just want to go away.

17:43

And that's the way I

17:45

felt this morning. I was

17:47

really just tired of the

17:50

entire project. I felt thoroughly

17:52

innovative and just done. You

17:54

know, and honestly, I'm going to

17:57

have to work through those feelings

17:59

this week. I'm just

18:01

going to need to spend

18:03

some time this week just

18:05

trying to figure out my

18:07

orientation to the project. I

18:09

mean, I'm not stopping, I'm

18:11

not leaving or anything like

18:13

that. I just, I don't,

18:15

I can't let this sort

18:17

of stuff get to me

18:19

in this way or else

18:21

I will leave and that

18:23

is something that I can't

18:25

let happen. What James said

18:28

to me felt hurtful and

18:30

denigrating. And I'm not going

18:32

to go through that again.

18:34

You know, and the thing

18:36

about is, this is all,

18:38

we're all volunteers here. This

18:40

is a whole donated time.

18:42

And the point that needs

18:44

to be made about that

18:46

is, this is as good

18:48

as it gets. There is

18:50

no, if we, if what

18:52

we want in podcasting. is

18:56

a group of people that's

18:58

dedicated to building technology for

19:00

podcasting, building open protocols and

19:02

open specifications. This is all

19:04

you're ever going to get.

19:06

Nobody cares enough to pay

19:08

for this sort of work.

19:10

The podcast industry does not

19:12

care. They've proven that time

19:14

after time after time They

19:16

there will never be a

19:18

standard's body There will never

19:20

be a Some sort of

19:23

working group with a board

19:25

and with a with committees

19:27

and all these things of

19:29

things that Just is not

19:31

going to happen and if

19:33

you think it is it

19:35

you are living in a

19:37

fantasy world What we have

19:39

right now with podcasting 2.

19:41

a group of people trying

19:43

to build these... the name

19:45

space and these open protocols,

19:47

that is as good as

19:50

this thing is ever going

19:52

to be. Even if somebody

19:54

like, and what I mean

19:56

is people volunteering their time,

19:58

even if somebody like Apple

20:00

stepped up to like fund

20:02

this or fund some sort

20:04

of real standards body, we'd

20:06

be right back stuck in

20:08

the same place that Mozilla

20:10

is right now. They never

20:12

will to be, I mean,

20:14

to be, you know, first,

20:16

first of all. But even

20:19

if they did in some

20:21

kind of weird world where

20:23

that became, where that worked

20:25

out, then what you are

20:27

is your Mozilla, who is

20:29

always beholden to Google for

20:31

their annual donation in order

20:33

to survive. This, this... project

20:35

works this way and it

20:37

and you know James says

20:39

last week he had all

20:41

these criticisms of the project

20:43

all these criticisms of this

20:45

is why I'm down on

20:48

2.0 because you have to

20:50

harass people and you have

20:52

to you know you have

20:54

to get angry at people

20:56

to get anything done and

20:58

you just get ignored and

21:00

you have you know you

21:02

spend your time building a

21:04

huge you know writing up

21:06

a huge document and nobody

21:08

ever says a word about

21:10

it. You know just all

21:12

these criticism. You know, and

21:14

they're all aimed at me.

21:17

I understand that. It's, nobody,

21:19

nobody's, you know, it's obvious.

21:21

We know, that's, I'm sorry,

21:23

but that's as good as

21:25

it gets. What you get

21:27

is, I'll tell you what

21:29

my day looks like. I

21:31

wake up, I get about

21:33

an hour, sometimes an hour

21:35

and a half to code

21:37

on Godcaster, then I go

21:39

to my day job. all

21:41

day, then I get home,

21:44

do all my family stuff,

21:46

and I may get... 30

21:48

minutes at night, maybe, to

21:50

work on namespace and index

21:52

stuff. That's typical. On Friday,

21:54

I have to run home

21:56

at lunch, eat lunch while

21:58

I'm doing this show, then

22:00

run back to the office.

22:02

So that takes all that

22:04

away. What happened this morning

22:06

was I scrolled through, I

22:08

was gonna start working on

22:10

Godcast, on a new feature

22:13

that we're working on. Sorry.

22:15

I was gonna start working

22:17

on that. But I just

22:19

read James message, you know,

22:21

and I was just like

22:23

screw it I can't I

22:25

can't even do this I

22:27

can't I was so upset.

22:29

I'm like I cannot Deal

22:31

with even I can't focus

22:33

on coding right now. So

22:35

I lost an I lost

22:37

an entire hour of coding

22:39

time on Godcaster because of

22:42

that And that's what I

22:44

can't allow to happen. This

22:46

is also why there might

22:48

be a sense of being

22:50

ignored Because the get hub

22:52

is a place where I

22:54

find it very difficult to

22:56

work now. Oh, get hubs

22:58

always turn into that. It

23:00

turns into a flame war.

23:02

I never look at the

23:04

get hub. I can't. I

23:06

can't. It gets my blood

23:08

boiling. I had to turn

23:11

off notifications about a year

23:13

ago from the from the

23:15

get hub, because there was

23:17

a person in there that

23:19

I, you know, that is

23:21

pretty much gone now. There's

23:23

a person in there that

23:25

was just relentlessly criticizing me

23:27

and my decisions. And I

23:29

was like, you know what,

23:31

I can't, I can't read

23:33

a post that has 12

23:35

paragraphs of criticism of me

23:38

and then also be productive

23:40

and get some stuff done.

23:42

Like, this is, I can't

23:44

do this. So I turned

23:46

off the notifications and that's

23:48

why I do most of

23:50

my work on the mastodon.

23:52

Trying to because it's a

23:54

quick turnaround and I don't

23:56

have to deal with all

23:58

the political bull crap But

24:00

now it's getting into the

24:02

mastodon And it's getting harder

24:04

and harder to focus on

24:07

getting stuff done because even

24:09

when you give people what

24:11

they want, what they've asked

24:13

for, you get even more

24:15

criticized when you give them

24:17

what they want. And I'm

24:19

just sick of all the

24:21

political part of this and

24:23

I'm gonna have to figure

24:25

out a way to work

24:27

around it. If I

24:29

may quote from our brother James,

24:31

and with that I mean the

24:34

Apostle James, understand this my dear

24:36

brothers and sisters, you must all

24:38

be quick to listen, slow to

24:40

speak, and slow to get angry.

24:42

Human anger does not produce the

24:44

righteousness God desires, so get rid

24:46

of all the filth and evil

24:48

in your lives and humbly accept

24:50

the word God has planted in

24:52

your hearts, for it has the

24:55

power to save your souls. And

24:57

we all should, I mean I

24:59

repeat this to myself every morning,

25:01

quick to listen, slow to get

25:03

angry. That's really where we have

25:05

to be. And it will help

25:07

everybody if you just think of

25:09

those three little short terms. Quick

25:11

to listen, slow to speak, slow

25:14

to get angry. It's changed my

25:16

life, it really has. So I

25:18

was right. When I saw what

25:20

happened, I felt you brother, I

25:22

felt you. And honestly, I, my,

25:24

you know, I, what happens is

25:26

for people who don't live like

25:28

you and I do, you want

25:30

to pull the plug? I was

25:32

like, you want to shut down

25:35

the mastodon for a day. I'm

25:37

like, no, no, no, this is

25:39

not where I got to reset

25:41

my thinking. How much does it

25:43

cost you to run the mastodon

25:45

each month, by the $150? Yeah,

25:47

about $150. Out of pocket. Yeah,

25:49

I don't deduct that from the...

25:51

from our fund. I don't know

25:54

why, I just never did. I'm

25:56

like, I kind of enjoy it.

25:58

Yeah, and it's, you know... Again,

26:01

it's a group of people doing

26:03

the best they can with busy

26:05

lives donating their time for nothing.

26:07

Can we please keep it? We're

26:10

all doing it for nothing. All

26:12

of us. All of us. Everybody.

26:14

James included, we're all donating our

26:16

time. So can we please like

26:19

give a little bit of grace?

26:21

to each other when things don't

26:23

go exactly the way that we

26:26

think that they should. I always

26:28

have to point out, and this

26:30

goes for you, it goes for

26:32

people who do podcasts, it goes

26:35

for pastors. I always have to

26:37

remind people, these kinds of people

26:39

make it look easy. That's the

26:42

problem. Oh, they make it look

26:44

so easy. I know you have

26:46

a, I mean, my... my prayer

26:48

for Godcaster and I'll be very

26:51

open about this I hope that

26:53

we and I've actually our partner

26:55

Gordon we both agreed we we

26:57

hope that this can get you

27:00

away from your day job there

27:02

will be enough revenue so that

27:04

you can stop doing what you're

27:07

doing and only do things that

27:09

you enjoy doing although I'm sure

27:11

you get some joy out of

27:13

the day job but you have

27:16

people just need to be reset

27:18

once in a while and remember

27:20

how this came about What what

27:23

the project was said the project

27:25

was only set out to create

27:27

an index and then we created

27:29

a name space for one reason

27:32

and one reason only to add

27:34

value for value payments which is

27:36

kind of an experiment and then

27:38

everybody came in and. We must

27:41

go back once in a while

27:43

and say hey, you know, this

27:45

was the community that that that

27:48

brought in all these ideas and

27:50

And you know, I never said

27:52

you hey Dave, let's create an

27:54

open-source project where everybody can come

27:57

in and want stuff and bitch

27:59

at you I don't think I

28:01

said that I don't think that

28:04

was the original attempt If you

28:06

had we may have The first

28:08

time you would have said no

28:10

to me. You know, but it's,

28:13

I have my own kind of

28:15

version of that, you know, and

28:17

it's, and it doesn't affect me

28:19

the same way, you know, the

28:22

chiding of, you should be doing

28:24

speeches, you should be going to

28:26

all these podcast conferences, how come

28:29

you're not out there? Well, I

28:31

have other things to do with

28:33

my life. And there's no upside,

28:35

in fact, we tried it once

28:38

and we got shoved in the

28:40

back room at lunchtime at lunchtime.

28:42

Like that was that was a

28:44

very embarrassing moment You know from

28:47

the podcast industrial complex. So no

28:49

No, I'm just not going to

28:51

do that and So go you

28:54

know, I don't block people. I

28:56

think that I don't I don't

28:58

do stuff like that I don't

29:00

I don't block and you know,

29:03

you know, I mute a few

29:05

people that do like political stuff

29:07

so like I have certain things

29:10

muted where it's like anything that

29:12

says Trump in it I have

29:14

that muted or Biden or things

29:16

like that to keep that out

29:19

of my timeline because I need

29:21

to focus I want my podcast

29:23

index timeline to be just relevant

29:25

to text stuff but like I'm

29:28

not gonna mute people or block

29:30

people or any of that or

29:32

any of that stuff it's just

29:35

not what I do but I

29:37

am gonna be you know I

29:39

am gonna be open about the

29:41

way that it makes me feel

29:44

and You know, I do have

29:46

thick skin, but everybody has a

29:48

breaking point everybody has a point

29:51

where they just You you know

29:53

You break them down and I

29:55

felt that way today so And

29:57

it all had to do with

30:00

this stupid image tag and explaining

30:02

this to somebody is very hard

30:04

because it seems like such a

30:06

tempest in a teapot when you're

30:09

just like you know I'm so

30:11

depressed and why? The images tag,

30:13

you know, it's like what? Are

30:16

you even talking about? A key

30:18

question for me, is everything okay

30:20

with Melissa though? You guys made

30:22

up? Oh yeah, for sure, for

30:25

sure. No, we're fine. Because I'll

30:27

come right out there and I'll

30:29

explain it to her, no problem.

30:32

I'll hop in my plane, I'll

30:34

buzz out. It don't take me

30:36

five hours, but I'll get there.

30:38

back. So, um, you know, but

30:41

the image type, but this again,

30:43

I'm not stopping this work. I'm

30:45

just, I'm just not. And because

30:47

I just think it's so important

30:50

and we've had such success and

30:52

we're going to have more success

30:54

in getting these things out into

30:57

the world with, with, with, um,

30:59

with podcasting tech. And now I

31:01

want to go to, if you'll

31:03

let me continue, now I want

31:06

to go to, go ahead. I

31:08

have one more thing to say,

31:10

but I don't know if you're

31:13

changing topics. Slightly, but go ahead.

31:15

Yeah. All I wanted to say

31:17

is that what started from the

31:19

beginning as a resource that we

31:22

set up value for value. in

31:24

people's minds. And it's good to

31:26

reiterate this from time to time,

31:28

has somehow turned into a, every

31:31

podcast app has to have every

31:33

single tag, otherwise it fails, podcasting

31:35

has to be this, it has

31:38

to have all these things, every

31:40

single app has to do it,

31:42

every hosting company has to do

31:44

it, news flash. It's not gonna

31:47

happen. That has never been the

31:49

intent of this project. That's important

31:51

to remember we are not on

31:54

a mission to convince Apple to

31:56

adopt every tag or Spotify or

31:58

any of that You know what

32:00

to me is just as few

32:03

You have to have a video

32:05

to be a podcaster. It's noise.

32:07

It's all just noise. And what

32:09

I love is that we have

32:12

proven and are in the process

32:14

of proving, and others have as

32:16

well, that you can build other

32:19

things with this. It's not just

32:21

one mission to make everybody adopt.

32:23

Adopt. Screw the word adopt. This

32:25

adopt. Not everyone's going to do

32:28

it. Not everyone's into adoption. Some

32:30

like abortion. They're not going to

32:32

do it. It's a futile mission.

32:34

But having a cool resource to

32:37

create things with and do your

32:39

own thing, that's your own individual

32:41

mission, everybody. Do what you want

32:44

to do. And if you need

32:46

something, we'll work with you to

32:48

create it and to make it

32:50

workable for what you want to

32:53

do. Okay, that's all I need

32:55

to say. The

32:58

podcast image tag, let's,

33:01

you know, hope we

33:03

can discuss it here

33:06

because I think, the

33:08

thing is, so I

33:11

disagree, I disagree that

33:13

the podcast images tag

33:16

needed to go away.

33:18

I didn't think, I

33:21

did not think it

33:23

did not think it

33:26

did. We had

33:28

a difference of opinion

33:30

on that and that's

33:32

fine. People can have

33:34

differences of opinion. Everybody's

33:36

entitled to that. But

33:39

James fell so strongly

33:41

about it that I

33:43

thought, okay, you know

33:45

what, I'm gonna back

33:47

off. And for the

33:49

sake of keeping, I

33:51

respect James a lot.

33:53

And because of that.

33:57

I want, I thought it

33:59

was more important. for, I

34:01

thought people and relationships were

34:03

more important than technology. And

34:05

so I said, okay, even

34:07

though I said to myself,

34:10

even though I disagree with

34:12

him, let me think about

34:14

this and consider what he's

34:16

saying. And if he feels

34:18

so strongly about the podcast

34:20

images tagging, then you need

34:22

to go away, fine. I'm

34:24

okay with that. Let's kill

34:27

it. So

34:30

that was sort of one

34:32

step in the thinking. The

34:34

next step was, if we're

34:36

gonna kill it, then, even

34:38

though I don't want to,

34:40

but if we're going to,

34:42

then we need to do

34:44

this in a proper way.

34:46

And having another tag that

34:49

just takes its place, doesn't

34:51

make any sense, to me,

34:53

excuse me. Because then you

34:55

have to have backwards compatibility

34:57

with the source set attribute.

34:59

So the podcast images tag

35:01

only has one attribute and

35:03

it's called source set. The

35:05

source set, everybody agrees that

35:07

they don't like the source

35:09

set attribute. So let's just

35:11

kill the whole thing. But

35:13

if you can maintain the

35:15

name images, now you have

35:17

a conflict. And you have

35:19

to maintain some sort of

35:21

backwards compatibility, otherwise it's just

35:23

a big confusing mess. So

35:26

if we're going to deprecate

35:28

podcast images, tag, we just

35:30

need to get rid of

35:32

it all together, and we

35:34

need to make a new

35:36

tag. And so I'm like,

35:38

okay, well, there's a new

35:40

opportunity here. I'm just going,

35:42

I'm just going through what

35:44

my thinking, because it may

35:46

not be obvious, but I've

35:48

been thinking about this all

35:50

week. I've been thinking about

35:52

this image tag and how

35:54

to make everybody happy. and

35:56

how to keep. and how

35:58

to move forward on this

36:00

topic. I've been thinking about

36:03

this the entire week, and

36:05

I finally came to a

36:07

set of what I thought

36:09

would be a good package

36:11

of ideas, and I put

36:13

it on the get hub

36:15

yesterday. So these are the

36:17

thoughts that led me to

36:19

what I posted yesterday. We

36:21

deprecate the images tag, altogether.

36:23

Get rid of the whole

36:25

name and everything. Make it

36:27

go away. and

36:29

make it go away

36:31

by make it go

36:34

away I'm actually going

36:36

to create a deprecated

36:38

section a deprecated document

36:40

that still lists these

36:42

tags and not even

36:44

deprecated it's going to

36:46

be called something else

36:48

because the banner tag

36:50

is going to go

36:52

into this same document.

36:54

These are tags that

36:56

are let's just say

36:58

unofficial. How about that?

37:00

Not deprecated but unofficial.

37:02

things you see in

37:04

the wild, you may

37:06

see in the wild

37:08

that were no, that

37:11

were no longer active,

37:13

you know, excuse me,

37:15

that were not part

37:17

of the spec that

37:19

we're actively maintaining. So

37:21

the images tag goes

37:23

away, along with the

37:25

source set attribute. We

37:27

create a new tag

37:29

called Image, so podcast

37:31

colon Image. And now

37:33

we have an opportunity

37:35

to have some cross

37:37

compatibility with the iTunes

37:39

image tag. So we

37:41

take the source attribute,

37:43

the SRC attribute, rename

37:45

that to H-ref. It's

37:47

the only, it's now

37:50

the only required attribute.

37:52

That makes it essentially

37:54

identical at its base

37:56

level before you add

37:58

any other attributes. It's

38:00

directly a drop-in replacement

38:02

for iTunes image image.

38:04

looks exactly the same.

38:06

So we start there,

38:08

then add on a

38:10

set of attributes that

38:12

give you progressively more

38:14

functionality. And so that

38:16

would be the alt

38:18

attribute, which is like

38:20

HDML. So it just

38:22

gives you a text

38:24

that you can, for

38:27

accessibility, you can put.

38:29

Now these are all

38:31

Nathan's, so far, this

38:33

is all Nathan's stuff,

38:35

you know, Nathan Gathright.

38:37

The alt attribute, he

38:39

added to give you

38:41

some accessibility help. He

38:43

added the aspect ratio

38:45

attribute, which is classified

38:47

as rec, which I

38:49

changed from optional to

38:51

recommended. So that's just

38:53

going to be a

38:55

straight aspect ratio, one

38:57

to one, which would

38:59

be square, 16 by

39:01

9. We all understand

39:03

aspect ratios. give app

39:06

developers a better sense

39:08

of what they're getting

39:10

size-wise. James likes the

39:12

media thumbnail tag because

39:14

it has a width

39:16

and a height. So

39:18

again, because I'm trying

39:20

to accommodate his strong

39:22

desires in this regard,

39:24

I added width and

39:26

height. is listed as

39:28

recommended, height is optional.

39:30

The reason height is

39:32

optional is because the

39:34

reason height is optional

39:36

is because all you

39:38

really need is aspect

39:40

ratio and a width.

39:43

Because if you know

39:45

the aspect ratio you

39:47

can already know, you

39:49

can determine the height.

39:51

So that's optional. Then

39:53

you have a type

39:55

attribute. So I

39:57

added the width and height.

39:59

Now we can type attribute.

40:01

to something that Nathan added.

40:03

And the type attribute gives

40:06

you a mind type. So

40:08

this is going to be

40:10

an image, or is this

40:12

going to be a video,

40:14

like an impact for, MP4?

40:16

The type isn't, it's optional

40:19

because it's not needed most

40:21

of the time. You're going

40:23

to assume this is an

40:25

image. And most browsers or

40:27

web views or, you know.

40:29

You're going to be able

40:32

to handle j-pags, p-n-g's, all

40:34

the standard stuff that you're

40:36

going to get 90% of

40:38

the time. If you have

40:40

something that's odd, let's just

40:43

say you're trying to deliver

40:45

like a TIF, you know,

40:47

or a video, or you're

40:49

going into something like a

40:51

video, like a motion image,

40:53

then you can use the

40:56

type to give a hint.

40:58

And then finally you have

41:00

purpose, which is the one

41:02

that was the most sort

41:04

of compact. Right. And again,

41:06

this is another, this is

41:09

something that Nathan added, and

41:11

you know, based on some

41:13

stuff that me and him

41:15

talked about, and Stephen B.

41:17

The purpose tokens are something

41:19

that we would maintain. It's

41:22

a list of things we

41:24

would maintain. These tokens could

41:26

be something, it could be

41:28

like artwork. These are the

41:30

ones listed as examples. social

41:33

canvas, canvas, cover, publisher, we

41:35

would have a list of

41:37

these. And they would link

41:39

to the definitions of what

41:41

these are. And these are

41:43

meant to come from what's

41:46

going on in the industry

41:48

already, okay? Like artwork and

41:50

uh, publisher and canvas. These

41:52

are, these link out to

41:54

apples. documentation to say, okay,

41:56

here's an acknowledgement that Apple

41:59

is Apple. their guidelines

42:01

and their requirements for art

42:03

are very important

42:05

in the podcast world. Every

42:08

hosting company is going to

42:10

have some sort of connection

42:12

to these descriptions and

42:15

these documents. They're going

42:17

to know them already. And it's

42:20

all something that we could immediately

42:22

agree upon. So we all

42:24

you can say is, you know, hey, if

42:26

you if I deliver you an image and

42:28

it has a purpose of publisher,

42:31

then you know where exactly

42:34

where to go to find

42:36

out what that is.

42:38

It's Apple's documentation. And

42:41

we have a link to it

42:43

right here. So if an app

42:45

developer sees that purpose,

42:47

they're going to know

42:50

exactly what they're supposed

42:53

to be getting. And so

42:55

there's a list of these. These

42:57

are all just acknowledgments

43:00

of already existing art

43:02

related things that are

43:04

happening in podcasting. Now

43:06

you can do your own thing, and

43:08

that's where the flexibility

43:11

of this thing comes in. You

43:13

can do your own thing. You can

43:15

have a, in the example that

43:17

Nathan gives in his documentation

43:20

is, is a purpose of

43:22

true fans slash hero. You know,

43:24

you could put as a podcast

43:27

or you could put in an

43:29

image with a purpose of true

43:31

fans slash hero And

43:33

that tells true fans Hey,

43:36

hey, I know that you

43:38

have a hero image that

43:40

requires this sizing and here's

43:42

here it is. I'm giving

43:44

it to you this is the thing

43:47

that you that you want and

43:49

here it is It's a true

43:51

fans could hook into that

43:53

the thing it wants. And if

43:56

it doesn't see that image, it

43:58

can fall back to one of

44:00

these other things and

44:02

try to make it

44:04

fit. So the purpose

44:07

attribute is extremely

44:09

flexible. I

44:11

think it is really

44:13

sort of the magic

44:15

that makes this whole

44:18

thing really shine. And

44:20

there's a whole list

44:23

of use cases there

44:25

that show different

44:27

ways to use it. So

44:32

I think it

44:34

and here's so

44:36

to sort of

44:38

wrap up this

44:40

this discussion if

44:43

the if the

44:45

hurtful criticism

44:49

type language

44:52

can be left

44:54

out we can still

44:57

get to this

44:59

same place. and

45:03

also enjoy

45:05

the process.

45:07

I think that if

45:10

we can agree

45:12

to formalize this

45:15

this tag, then

45:17

I agree that

45:19

this is a better

45:22

tag than what

45:25

podcast images

45:27

was. But

45:30

I really don't think that we

45:32

had to get here in this

45:34

fashion. Hey man. And so that's

45:37

pretty much all. I think I'm going

45:39

to say about that from here

45:41

on out. It's just going to

45:43

be, I don't really want to

45:45

talk about this anymore. I just

45:47

want to have a discussion about

45:50

the technology. Right. Well, I just

45:52

need to say one more thing.

45:54

Sorry. We have multiple. We

45:56

have people from multiple

45:59

culture. backgrounds and

46:02

I lived in the

46:04

UK, I lived in

46:06

Germany and I even

46:08

have to, I, comic

46:10

strip blogger is my

46:12

best example. It took

46:14

me over a decade

46:16

to get used to

46:18

how he speaks. Everybody,

46:20

just be aware that

46:22

how you may speak

46:24

or you know. the

46:27

cultural way that you communicate may

46:29

land differently with others. And so

46:31

what you may think is not

46:34

very offensive or, you know, just

46:36

be a little more thoughtful with,

46:38

I'm guilty of this too, by

46:40

the way. And so that, sometimes

46:43

we forget about that because I'd

46:45

see Moritz posting something, I'm like,

46:47

ah, I have to remind myself,

46:50

oh, he's German. And Germans have

46:52

a different way of communicating, very

46:54

similar to the Dutch, by the

46:57

way. which can be sometimes direct

46:59

and harsh and commissure blog is

47:01

the best example. And he needs

47:03

a Chad GPT translator when he

47:06

posts, you know, it's like, come

47:08

on man. So this is some

47:10

of that. Anyway, backslash on that.

47:13

I can take it, I can

47:15

take this one step further into

47:17

something that we, the, that I've

47:20

been thinking about that goes along

47:22

with the image thing and I

47:24

think is probably a good example

47:26

of how the, of how the,

47:29

This new version of the image

47:31

tag would be would be useful

47:33

and it's got to do with

47:36

what we were talking about with

47:38

Within Godcaster and some of the

47:40

other things we've been saying with

47:43

true fans Sort of the Rachel

47:45

Maddow page. I think one good

47:47

thing about if we can agree

47:49

to formalize this tag is

47:52

if Let me post this

47:54

in the boardroom. Hang on.

47:57

Let's see. post this URL.

47:59

Okay so if you yeah

48:02

so if you go here

48:04

this is the this is

48:06

Apple's channel for focus on

48:09

the family okay for their

48:11

organization this is their channel

48:13

and it contains all of

48:16

their shows. Let's see, maybe

48:18

you can put that in

48:20

the show notes or something

48:23

that way. Yeah, yeah, you

48:25

got it. Okay. So this

48:28

is what we're trying to

48:30

replicate with the publisher feed,

48:32

the publisher medium. And I

48:35

think in order to make

48:37

something like this work, to

48:39

get a similar effect in

48:42

something like True Fans or

48:44

Podverse. you know these various

48:47

apps I think fountain would

48:49

probably want to do this

48:51

as well Stephen B with

48:54

L you know with L&B

48:56

in order to get something

48:58

like this where you have

49:01

a channel of shows with

49:03

with nice artwork that makes

49:05

sense like this big image

49:08

at the top I think

49:10

that can be a very

49:13

good use case for the

49:15

image tag for the new

49:17

version of the image tag

49:20

so you would have like

49:23

You know, you'd be able

49:25

to specify in your publisher

49:27

feed, your publisher medium feed,

49:29

but like, here's, here's the

49:32

art that builds this, you

49:34

know, quote unquote channel, or

49:36

this publisher display. So then

49:38

you would see that big

49:40

art and you would see

49:42

all the, all the different

49:45

assets that go along with

49:47

it, maybe even a motion

49:49

pick, you know, a motion

49:51

hero movie type thing. And

49:53

I think that's another, like

49:56

if we can formalize this

49:58

tag, then we can. We

50:01

can then go a little bit

50:04

further and combine with some documentation

50:06

that says Here's here's how here's

50:08

a public here's how if you

50:11

want to do a distributed Open

50:13

source version of a quote channel

50:15

Then here's how you do it

50:18

you create a publisher feed you

50:20

include this you include the image

50:23

tag with these purposes and blah

50:25

blah blah and we can just

50:27

sort of like build out a

50:30

document that describes how to make

50:32

the equivalent of an Apple channel,

50:34

but for everybody else, not just

50:37

Apple. Yeah, man, this is good.

50:39

I'm glad you brought this one

50:42

up. Because the public, we all,

50:44

I mean, that's why we built

50:46

the publisher fee, because we know

50:49

it's the, is your favorite word,

50:51

it's the substrate, that everything, you

50:53

know, that we can build this

50:56

thing on, but then we need

50:58

some sort of. documentation that says

51:00

here's how you kind of build

51:03

the display of it but I

51:05

think but I don't none of

51:08

the none of the other sort

51:10

of image stuff we have really

51:12

seems to fit that but this

51:15

would I like it yeah I

51:17

like it's needed just taking out

51:19

loud and even just looking at

51:22

this focus page like obviously what's

51:24

happening up the top in that

51:26

banner is not what they wanted

51:29

to be. Yeah, I don't, I

51:31

wouldn't think so. No, but that's

51:34

probably just, you know, reasons, right?

51:36

Just whatever, however Apple is doing

51:38

that. Yeah, it makes it difficult

51:41

for them to get a nice

51:43

image in there. Yeah, we could

51:45

define what, like, sort of a

51:48

standard for, for what this is,

51:50

and we don't have to create

51:53

it from scratch. We can do

51:55

exactly what James has said, and

51:57

we can use the existing. Spex

52:00

that are out there because there's

52:02

a few you know this you

52:04

know like Apple spec also it

52:07

just it defines what these things

52:09

can yeah sizes it I want

52:11

to talk about the lit tag

52:14

for a second. Yeah, let's do

52:16

it. I'm going to champion this

52:19

for personal reasons, but also for

52:21

broader reasons. The lit tag is

52:23

getting attention. In fact, I have

52:26

a meeting next, I think Wednesday,

52:28

with Soundstack, who run Live 365

52:30

and other things. The lit tag

52:33

is an enormous opportunity and I'll

52:35

just tell you one opportunity right

52:37

off the bat because there's not

52:40

a lot of apps that support

52:42

it yet. So in Godcaster, which

52:45

now has 249 stations and frequencies,

52:47

in Godcaster we give the ability

52:49

for people to, for a station

52:52

to have its own RSS feed.

52:54

And so when you click on

52:56

that, you know, subscribe in your

52:59

podcast that button in the Godcaster,

53:01

it pops up a list of

53:04

recommended podcast players, lo and behold,

53:06

the ones that understand the lit

53:08

tag are featured. So, and these

53:11

stations are going to start educating

53:13

their listeners, we hope, because that's

53:15

always the biggest, the biggest bottleneck.

53:18

but we're doing it with the

53:20

interface to say, hey, these are

53:22

the podcast apps that are recommended

53:25

for this feed that we're giving

53:27

you. Now, down at the bottom,

53:30

we also have Apple, because you

53:32

can still, any podcast stop will

53:34

be able to subscribe to the

53:37

feed, just don't get the live.

53:39

And these radio stations are begging

53:41

for live in the car. And

53:44

they're going off building their own

53:46

apps with all kinds of, with

53:49

varying results, I should say. It's

53:51

kind of like, you know, where

53:53

there's a need, a bunch of

53:56

people pop up with picks and

53:58

shovels. And quite honestly, I'm underwhelmed

54:00

with what the app companies are

54:03

doing. basically have a shell they

54:05

throw in some you know wordpress

54:07

page and some other things and

54:10

then they'll they'll do a listen

54:12

live which is the equivalent to

54:15

a radio station website that has

54:17

listen live a button at the

54:19

top and but people are looking

54:22

for a better in-car experience and

54:24

this is this is a great

54:26

way to get people to use

54:29

your app so consider adding the

54:31

lit tag I would hope that

54:33

Apple is listening because man could

54:36

they could change their lives but

54:38

okay And for hosting companies, there

54:41

was a discussion on podcast weekly

54:43

review about this and how, and

54:45

I fundamentally disagree, you know, not

54:48

everybody's dumb or lazy in America.

54:50

I met a lot of people

54:52

who were very animated and very

54:55

excited and want to figure things

54:57

out. So hosting companies. Just may

55:00

not want to add this capability

55:02

to their you know of an

55:04

ice cast server But you can

55:07

do deals you can do deals

55:09

with all kinds of companies to

55:11

integrate that into the workflow for

55:14

somebody who wants to go live

55:16

It's a it's a it's an

55:18

integral part of podcasting these days

55:21

going live is a thing It

55:23

will be very easy for someone

55:26

who may even be just doing

55:28

it on YouTube. I mean it

55:30

works in reverse You know, hey,

55:33

I'm going live on rumble, I'm

55:35

going live on YouTube, and I'm

55:37

going live in these podcast apps.

55:40

It's worth adding it to your

55:42

app, and it's worth considering it

55:44

for your hosting service. And I'm

55:47

just going to remind everybody every

55:49

single show. Lit is the future.

55:52

Yeah, and Franco's working on it.

55:54

Of course he is. For Castomatic.

55:56

I mean, there's this. It's going.

55:59

It is. And you know, and

56:01

obviously episodes dot if M, but

56:03

we'll add it as well, it

56:06

pops you to the top. You

56:08

know, every single time I go

56:11

live with no agenda, I send

56:13

a episode. episodes dot-f-m link let

56:15

me see what actually that looks

56:18

like and I think episodes dot-f-m

56:20

just show for the if I'm

56:22

if I'm promoting a lit tag

56:25

it pops up and we also

56:27

have episodes dot-f-m in our list

56:29

on the godcaster let me see

56:32

what it shows so it shows

56:34

yeah elm-beats podcast that a curie

56:37

caster fountain true fans pod-verse podcast

56:39

guru get your app in that

56:41

list people yes that's where you

56:44

want this is where you want

56:46

to be that's free promotion that's

56:48

free promotion free promotion for you.

56:51

Should you play a song? Oh

56:53

yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, it's

56:56

a short one. This was recorded

56:58

at the Slow Flower Studio. I

57:00

believe that's somewhere. And I know

57:03

if I'm pronouncing it right. S-O-E-I

57:05

think that's slow. Think so. S-O-E-E-S.

57:07

I think so. So we'll have

57:10

to correct me. It was performed

57:12

live. This is Joe Martin, who

57:14

was the first value-for-value artist we

57:17

played. This is Stranger Sullivan. Could

57:19

have stayed in. Gone left instead

57:22

of right. Done a thousand things.

57:24

Instead of meeting you that night.

57:26

You could have called a friend.

57:29

You could have called quits. You

57:31

could have walked home before a

57:33

midnight hit. But you didn't. It

57:36

happened in a minute and you

57:38

almost passed me by. I was

57:40

holding the door when you threw

57:43

me a smile. Life's twists and

57:45

turns left us where we began.

57:49

We went from

57:51

strangers to lovers

57:53

and back to

57:55

strangers again. It

57:57

can all change.

57:59

So damn fast.

58:01

the high future

58:03

plans, the came

58:05

of your past,

58:07

what I miss

58:09

the most, it

58:11

don't sound like

58:13

much, but it's

58:15

calling your number,

58:17

you picking up.

58:19

It only took

58:21

an hour of

58:23

an ordinary night,

58:25

for you to

58:27

steal my heart.

58:29

without even trying.

58:31

Life's twists and

58:33

turns, lifters where

58:35

we began. We

58:37

went from strangers

58:39

to lovers, now

58:42

strangers again. You

59:02

didn't want to change,

59:05

you didn't want to

59:07

fight. Life's twists and

59:10

turns. If does where

59:13

we begin. Where from

59:15

strangers to lovers, and

59:18

back to strangers again.

59:20

From strangers to lovers,

59:23

and now a stranger

59:26

again. Very

59:32

mindful very demure I love

59:35

that guy Love you what

59:37

what are the songs? The

59:39

British the British never sound

59:42

British when they sing. Oh,

59:44

I mean he's he speaks

59:47

very British like northern Northern

59:49

British when he speaks. Yeah,

59:52

yeah, it's the way it's

59:54

like Yeah, that's the beauty

59:57

of the English language you

59:59

sing it, it just sounds

1:00:02

better in American English. Can't

1:00:04

help it. Everybody's American when

1:00:06

they see. That's right. American.

1:00:09

Merka, Merka baby, Merka. Let's

1:00:11

see what else did you

1:00:14

have Dave? Anything else to

1:00:16

talk about on the list?

1:00:19

By the way, I want

1:00:21

to thank Sam for interviewing

1:00:24

us and James at a

1:00:26

good edit. I'm always like,

1:00:29

oh man. You know, they

1:00:31

take 45 minutes down to,

1:00:34

I don't know, 17 or

1:00:36

something like that. But it

1:00:38

was good. It's magical. Yeah,

1:00:41

it got across the message.

1:00:43

And I know they released

1:00:46

the full interview as well.

1:00:48

It was great. It was

1:00:51

good. We even got someone

1:00:53

wanting to a demo right

1:00:56

after the show came out.

1:00:58

So it worked, thank you.

1:01:01

Oh, really? Yeah, that's cool.

1:01:03

Yeah. So he emailed me

1:01:06

and he brought up Castimatic

1:01:08

for yes, I'm sorry. Yes,

1:01:10

Frank. Yeah, Franco from Castimatic.

1:01:13

Everybody loves Franco. Of course,

1:01:15

everybody loves their doctor. Their

1:01:18

dog. Yes. He brought up

1:01:20

an issue that I've honestly

1:01:23

never considered. And I

1:01:26

really don't know how

1:01:28

to solve it. And

1:01:30

so it's this. Our

1:01:33

feed is a, our

1:01:35

podcast is a perfect

1:01:37

example of this. So

1:01:40

if you go, let's

1:01:42

see, W.W.D. Podcast Index.com.

1:01:44

.org, excuse me. You

1:01:47

still do, do, do,

1:01:49

do, do, do you?

1:01:51

I remember when the

1:01:54

advertising industry back in

1:01:56

the late 90s would

1:01:58

say, dub dub dub.

1:02:01

That's like pod. Yeah,

1:02:03

dub, dub, dub. Yeah,

1:02:05

never say that. No,

1:02:08

no. Okay, so if

1:02:10

you go to podcastnessex.org

1:02:12

and search for podcast,

1:02:15

our show, podcasting2.0, where's

1:02:17

for some reason we're

1:02:19

number six in the

1:02:22

list. So if you

1:02:24

go down there, what

1:02:26

you see is MP3's.na

1:02:29

show notes.com. That's our

1:02:31

URL. Yeah. Okay, well,

1:02:33

if you click that.

1:02:36

You get forward to

1:02:38

feeds dot podcast index.org/PC

1:02:40

20 dot XML. Yes.

1:02:43

So if If somebody

1:02:45

subscribes using this URL

1:02:47

the MP3 yeah, no,

1:02:50

no, if somebody subscribes

1:02:52

using feeds dot podcast

1:02:54

index.org in their castomatic

1:02:58

And then Castimatic checks

1:03:00

with the index to,

1:03:03

it's tries to look

1:03:05

up a show in

1:03:07

the index using feeds

1:03:10

dot podcast index.org/PC20.X&L. It

1:03:12

gets nothing because that's

1:03:14

not the URL we

1:03:17

have for the show.

1:03:19

The URL we have

1:03:21

is the pre-forwarded. Yes.

1:03:24

Is the 302. Yes.

1:03:27

redirect. So that's a

1:03:29

problem. I mean, I

1:03:31

don't know how to

1:03:33

fix that. Because, I

1:03:35

mean, it's really not...

1:03:37

I mean, you see

1:03:39

what I mean? Like,

1:03:42

I don't... If, you

1:03:44

know, if you're trying

1:03:46

to do sort of

1:03:48

like a reverse look

1:03:50

up this way, from

1:03:52

a destination URL. to

1:03:54

a canonical view or

1:03:56

how do you how

1:03:58

do you find a

1:04:00

destiny? or the origin.

1:04:03

Yeah, where do you

1:04:05

find where the thing

1:04:07

came from? I don't

1:04:09

know. I don't know.

1:04:11

I don't know. I

1:04:13

don't know how to

1:04:15

solve that. I mean,

1:04:17

I don't know. Now

1:04:19

the index database, the

1:04:21

index database does have

1:04:23

a column in the

1:04:26

feeds table. So if

1:04:28

you like there's two

1:04:30

columns in the index

1:04:32

database Well, you can't

1:04:34

look in the D

1:04:36

and Drib you can't

1:04:38

the DNS a reverse

1:04:40

look-up record doesn't have

1:04:42

the full URL though,

1:04:44

so it doesn't help.

1:04:46

No. So if you

1:04:49

like there's two columns

1:04:51

in the index database

1:04:53

for URL, yeah. One

1:04:56

of them is just called

1:04:58

URL, the other one's called

1:05:01

original URL. And so what

1:05:03

we've been using is, what

1:05:06

we've been using is, what

1:05:08

we've been using is, so

1:05:10

the URL is the current

1:05:13

URL that we have listed,

1:05:15

the original URL is like

1:05:18

if they've moved from one

1:05:20

host to another. That was

1:05:23

their previous host. So

1:05:25

what we could do is, you

1:05:27

know, replace that original URL field

1:05:30

with the, you know, we could

1:05:32

we could put both in there

1:05:34

and that way it would return

1:05:36

if looked up for both. But

1:05:38

what if it has like three

1:05:40

redirects? Yeah. I don't know. I

1:05:42

don't know what to do with

1:05:44

that. This kind of feeds into

1:05:46

a question I've had and I've

1:05:48

sent it to you on email,

1:05:51

but I'm sure it goes into

1:05:53

the big podcast index bin. So

1:05:55

sometimes people will request to have

1:05:57

their original index entry. So you

1:05:59

know podcastingex.org/whatever the number is for

1:06:01

me to replace their RSS URL

1:06:03

with the new RSS URL. And

1:06:05

sometimes I can and sometimes I

1:06:07

can't. I can't figure out why

1:06:09

I sometimes can't change it. The

1:06:12

reason sometimes you can't is because

1:06:14

there's already a feed, a dead

1:06:16

feed in the index with that

1:06:18

same. ULL right I figured but

1:06:20

I thought that the dead feed

1:06:22

ULL would then no longer be

1:06:24

recognized it was marked dead It's

1:06:26

still an it's still a unique

1:06:28

index in the database Okay, so

1:06:30

it's it's a it's my lazy

1:06:33

programming that it's not telling you

1:06:35

that more clearly I understood you

1:06:37

can you know, but how do

1:06:39

I fix it? You fix it

1:06:41

by... You fix it by... You

1:06:43

fix it by... You fix it

1:06:45

by... You fix it by... You

1:06:47

fix it by... You fix it

1:06:49

by... You fix it by... Well,

1:06:52

I'm gonna have to fix it,

1:06:54

because I'm gonna have to fix

1:06:56

it by change. Oh, wait. Can

1:06:58

I, as an example, on the

1:07:00

dead, how about this? On the

1:07:02

dead, on the entry that's marked

1:07:04

dead, can I change the URL

1:07:06

there to some, you know, food

1:07:08

bar thing and then go and

1:07:10

change the new one? And then

1:07:13

go back and change the old

1:07:15

one? No. You can, but I'm

1:07:17

gonna have to make it where

1:07:19

that shows up. Oh. Okay. Well,

1:07:21

I'm just going to have to

1:07:23

do it. I just want to

1:07:25

make it easy for you, so

1:07:27

I don't have to send those

1:07:29

requests to you. It's okay. I'm

1:07:31

going to have to just change

1:07:34

that in the dashboard where you

1:07:36

can go to make it where

1:07:38

when it does that, it tells

1:07:40

you what's happening and then gives

1:07:42

you a link to go to

1:07:44

that other one to change it.

1:07:46

Or something like that. It happens

1:07:48

maybe twice a month, so it's

1:07:50

not a huge thing. You're right,

1:07:53

like Nathan and Daniel and Eric

1:07:55

are saying, you know, and Cotton

1:07:57

General are just saying, they're all

1:07:59

giving good. You

1:08:01

know, that's the way the

1:08:04

things you're describing the way

1:08:06

that yeah, that's the way

1:08:08

it should work, but like

1:08:11

I don't Some people just

1:08:13

come in in a different

1:08:15

way. So like if See,

1:08:18

I'm trying to remember why

1:08:20

there was some reason Well,

1:08:23

probably why we deleting a

1:08:25

record probably requires a whole

1:08:27

new table update or something.

1:08:30

I'm sure it's some database

1:08:32

overhead if you're deleting a

1:08:35

record like that. We're not

1:08:37

deleting the record. We're just

1:08:39

marking it with a dead

1:08:42

flag. Yeah, yeah, flag. Um,

1:08:44

see, I'm trying to remember

1:08:47

back when we moved from

1:08:49

MP3 to NA show notes

1:08:51

from void zero CDN over

1:08:54

to Linode object storage. I'm

1:08:57

trying to remember why we

1:08:59

did a 302 redirect instead

1:09:01

of a 301. Do you

1:09:04

remember why? Let me, hold

1:09:06

on a second, let me

1:09:08

see, maybe this will help.

1:09:10

Okay, there's some reason why

1:09:12

we didn't just change. Let's

1:09:14

go back and talk. Maybe

1:09:16

this helps. Here we are,

1:09:18

we're back in time. Do

1:09:21

you remember now? No. I

1:09:23

don't remember. There was some

1:09:25

reason. Well, I know why

1:09:27

we did it. And that

1:09:29

was, we figured there were

1:09:31

so many people subscribed to

1:09:33

MP3.NA shownotes.com that we didn't

1:09:35

want to screw everybody else

1:09:38

up. So we just did

1:09:40

a redirect. I don't know

1:09:42

what kind of redirect we're

1:09:44

doing though. I could probably

1:09:46

look it up. Yeah, I

1:09:48

think it's a 302. Yeah.

1:09:50

So the, but see, if

1:09:52

you have a 302. If

1:09:56

you have a 302 and somebody

1:09:59

comes in, If somebody, like, okay,

1:10:01

if I'm subscribed to imp3.nshonos.com and

1:10:03

then I want to give somebody,

1:10:06

somebody, if I want to give

1:10:08

that URL to someone else, like

1:10:10

if I want to share it

1:10:13

to somebody else, and I just

1:10:15

go in and like look it

1:10:17

up on my PC, click on

1:10:20

it, and we'll go to the

1:10:22

address bar, what I'm getting is

1:10:24

the destination URL. And I'm going

1:10:27

to share that to this other

1:10:29

person. They're going to subscribe to

1:10:31

it, but now they're subscribing to

1:10:34

the destination, not the MP3.na Shownos.com.

1:10:36

So it's just sort of like

1:10:38

this accident that slowly leaks out

1:10:41

over time you end up with

1:10:43

this mix. So it feels like

1:10:45

to me. Well, we have a

1:10:48

302. Should we make that a

1:10:50

permanent change? to what is the

1:10:52

permanent 301? Yeah, I guess we

1:10:55

could. Yeah, that would help. We

1:10:57

probably did it temporary just because

1:10:59

we were making sure it was

1:11:02

temporary. Yeah, because we would make

1:11:04

sure we didn't break anything. Yeah.

1:11:06

So in case we needed to

1:11:08

say, oh crap and roll it

1:11:11

back, you know, right, right. But

1:11:13

I think, I think all of

1:11:15

your feeds are that way now.

1:11:18

I think they're all. hosted? No,

1:11:20

only no agenda and podcasting 2.0.

1:11:22

All the rest I still use

1:11:25

sovereign feeds to download the RSS

1:11:27

file, drag it into the FTP,

1:11:29

and then hit the pot pink.

1:11:32

You are also doing it for

1:11:34

Mofax too, right? Mm-hmm. Same. Okay.

1:11:36

So I guess there's only one,

1:11:39

the only solution I can think

1:11:41

of is just to for these.

1:11:43

Whenever one of these feeds happens

1:11:46

like this, we have to put

1:11:48

in that alternate URL in the

1:11:50

feed record. Right. I don't know

1:11:53

any other way. I don't know

1:11:55

any of the solution for it.

1:11:57

Because, like, why don't you just

1:12:00

add another column? Let's do that.

1:12:02

Put a new table in, spin

1:12:04

up another database. You add a

1:12:07

new column to a table that

1:12:09

has, you know, four million records

1:12:11

in it. And now you've locked

1:12:14

the database for two hours. You

1:12:16

know, 30 minutes. Yeah, whatever. Yeah,

1:12:18

exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's not fun.

1:12:21

And this fantasy where you can,

1:12:23

with my sequel eight, where you

1:12:25

can add columns without locking the

1:12:28

database, that is a lie. That

1:12:30

is not true. Like, you basically

1:12:32

don't, you read through the documentation

1:12:35

and at the end by the

1:12:37

time you're finished, you're like, hmm.

1:12:39

Only one way to find out.

1:12:42

Run the command. And click lock.

1:12:44

According to all the documentation, this

1:12:46

should work. And you execute it

1:12:49

and you're like, dang it, crap.

1:12:51

I guess we're waiting, I guess

1:12:53

I'm popping popcorn. Hey, should we

1:12:56

thank some people? Yeah, sure, let's

1:12:58

do it. Okay, we got some

1:13:00

nice boost today coming in. Starting

1:13:02

off with 1,500 Sats from Oistim

1:13:05

Berger, coming in from podcast guru.

1:13:07

And he boosted Joe Martin. The

1:13:09

only one so far on the

1:13:12

live show, Joe Martin Makes Music

1:13:14

Great. outstanding because that comes through

1:13:16

even on if you're if you're

1:13:19

if you're using a different kind

1:13:21

of if you're using Ellen Europe

1:13:23

pay and that by the way

1:13:26

that's nice that's working real well

1:13:28

my strike wallet just is filling

1:13:30

up with one one sat streaming

1:13:33

payments all the time it really

1:13:35

does work well I did I

1:13:37

got I jumped on the fountain

1:13:40

the thing in Waco Oh yeah,

1:13:42

how was that? I missed that.

1:13:44

I was at NRB. How was

1:13:47

that? It was cool. Yeah, it

1:13:49

was really cool. After a few

1:13:51

booths. and to make, yeah, it

1:13:54

was really neat. Excellent. And Oistine,

1:13:56

of course, takes over the live

1:13:58

stream right after the board meeting

1:14:01

and plays his crazy music. Dribe

1:14:03

Scott, 54321. Thank you very much,

1:14:05

Dribe, he says, Dave Jones, you

1:14:08

are a scholar and a gentleman.

1:14:10

We all love and appreciate you

1:14:12

and your efforts. Thank you. That's

1:14:15

true. Triple 7 from Sam Sethi,

1:14:17

coming in from true fans. As

1:14:19

I said in my interview with

1:14:22

you both. It's a thankless task

1:14:24

and I'm thankful for you both.

1:14:26

That's not a thankless task. Just

1:14:29

sometimes gets a little little pressure.

1:14:31

Yep. Dude named Ben, Salty Kray

1:14:33

on 2.3.5 in the Satoshi land

1:14:36

coming from curio cast. There were

1:14:38

such a bunch of misfits. Volunteering

1:14:40

on a passion project. We love

1:14:43

to improve on and break and

1:14:45

from time to time and break

1:14:47

from time to time. Karma Plus

1:14:50

Plus for Dave. Keep

1:14:52

a chin up Dave says BR

1:14:54

with a thousand sats you are

1:14:56

a podcasting treasure I don't know

1:14:59

if I do that for Harvad

1:15:01

came in with a 33 magic

1:15:03

number we heard that blasted in

1:15:05

during your your soliloquy so I

1:15:08

had to turn it down with

1:15:10

a bit even 33 thousand yes

1:15:12

the soliloquy you were doing a

1:15:15

soliloquy you've never heard of a

1:15:17

soliloquy yeah yeah I know it

1:15:19

was soliloquizing that's a That's what

1:15:21

we called podcasting in the early

1:15:24

days. It's a soliloquy. It's just

1:15:26

basically people talking to themselves. Soliloquasting?

1:15:28

Sililoquasting. Almost made it. 33,333 sets

1:15:30

from Harvatt. Thank you, Harvatt. Bitpunk

1:15:33

FM, 442. Just want to say

1:15:35

thanks to y'all in this community.

1:15:37

There's a lot of positivity in

1:15:40

this community. I did a lit

1:15:42

poetry thing today and the chat

1:15:44

came out to help and support.

1:15:46

Thanks for enabling this. Oh yes,

1:15:49

coming in from Fountain there. Bitpunk

1:15:51

is a great name. I just

1:15:53

love it. Bitpunk. Bitpunk. Yeah. 1701

1:15:56

from Lycium, which is Martin Lindes

1:15:58

Koch. He says, you are not

1:16:00

lost in space. What is your

1:16:02

spacecraft Starship? I have a Road

1:16:05

Connect TV podcasting software on my

1:16:07

Macbook Air M2. I want to

1:16:09

hook up several Road NTUSB mini

1:16:12

microphones to my laptop. I got

1:16:14

some kind of robotic sound in

1:16:16

the recording. I am running with

1:16:18

scissors. All the best, Martin Lindskog.

1:16:21

I'm not, I have not, uh,

1:16:23

not used that set up. I'm

1:16:25

gonna guess that has something to

1:16:28

do with your Mac book. Apple

1:16:30

does strange things with the USB.

1:16:32

A hundred sets from none of

1:16:34

your business, youngly of biddness. Thank

1:16:37

you, it just says, Howdy, from

1:16:39

Fountain. Another salty crayon boost, 3333,

1:16:41

he says, bat signal, Lima Charlie,

1:16:44

yes indeed. And we hit the

1:16:46

delimiter. Oh, we get, we get

1:16:48

some, these monthlies, these paypels are

1:16:50

going to be mixed in. As

1:16:53

in out of order, not in

1:16:55

decent. Well I didn't separate out

1:16:57

the monthlies from those one-offs because

1:17:00

it's all, I didn't have time

1:17:02

to print them today, but I

1:17:04

saw just run through all of

1:17:06

them. Kevin Bay, five bucks, thank

1:17:09

you Kevin. Thanks Kevin. Appreciate it.

1:17:11

Chad Faro, $20.22, thank you Chad

1:17:13

for everything that you do brother.

1:17:16

Cameron Rose, $25. Thank you Cameron.

1:17:18

New media, that's Martin Lindisco. No,

1:17:20

one dollar one dollar. Is that

1:17:22

more like new media? Yeah, that's

1:17:25

his thing. Yes, it comes through.

1:17:27

Okay. Thank you Martin Mark Graham

1:17:29

one dollar. Thank you Mark Pod

1:17:32

page Brendan over there and the

1:17:34

gang is a pod page 25

1:17:36

dollars. Thank you. Nice 10 bucks

1:17:38

from Ron McKinnon and he says

1:17:41

to help keep up the service

1:17:43

I use podcasting index regularly. Thank

1:17:45

you. All right. You're welcome Ron.

1:17:47

You are Randall. Hey Randall five

1:17:50

bucks Thank you Randall. And then

1:17:52

we got some booster grams. Let

1:17:54

me go down here to the

1:17:57

bottom. Okay, we got D Schwartz.

1:17:59

Roa Ducks, 2222 through Fountain. He

1:18:01

says, sorry if I missed you

1:18:03

already mentioning DNS. Boost. All right.

1:18:06

Boost. Bruce, the Ugly Quacking Duck

1:18:08

podcast, 2222, a Roa Ducks podcast.

1:18:10

A Roa Ducks podcast guru. He

1:18:13

says, Tech Talk, enjoy it, even

1:18:15

if I don't get it. Brought

1:18:17

me into 2.0 podcasting. Thank you.

1:18:19

All right. You're welcome. D. Schwartz

1:18:22

again. He says, 2222. Why not

1:18:24

start with something like DNS. Probably.

1:18:26

known distributed database as a start

1:18:29

for the distributed index. It just

1:18:31

didn't. If you try to add

1:18:33

a money. It's like the trash

1:18:35

heap of everything. Throw it into

1:18:38

DNS. It's just not built for

1:18:40

that. Like you can't. I tried

1:18:42

to do this with gooids. I

1:18:45

tried to make a good lookup

1:18:47

service that was based on DNS.

1:18:49

And you would. And it worked.

1:18:51

So you could. What you could

1:18:54

do is you could look up.

1:18:56

you could put in a good,

1:18:58

dot, it would be the good,

1:19:01

dot, goid, dot, podcast index, dot,

1:19:03

or, and what you would get

1:19:05

back would be a text entry

1:19:07

of the URL of the podcast.

1:19:10

And it worked, but what you're

1:19:12

gonna end up with is like

1:19:14

four and a half million D&S

1:19:17

entries. It's just not, it's not

1:19:19

scalable. It's a bit much. Yeah,

1:19:21

D.H.T. is the way to go.

1:19:23

Yeah, it's built for that, you

1:19:26

know. Ciren for Milmer Memorial's podcast,

1:19:28

or Satchel Richards, 1111. He's through

1:19:30

Fountain, he says, watching versus listening

1:19:33

to podcasts. I feel the same

1:19:35

applies to listening to audio books

1:19:37

versus reading the book. I can

1:19:39

usually tell if someone has taken

1:19:42

the time to sit and focus

1:19:44

solely on the book. versus listening

1:19:46

likely while doing other distracting tasks.

1:19:49

Yeah, by the way, at the

1:19:51

NRB, a lot of people are

1:19:53

interested in the audio books feature.

1:19:55

Oh, the medium? Oh yeah, oh

1:19:58

my goodness. Oh really? Yeah, I

1:20:00

showed different medium examples and when

1:20:02

I said audio. You did a

1:20:04

tech. I did presentation. I did.

1:20:07

And you know, no one threw

1:20:09

anything at me, so it turned

1:20:11

out, okay. But yeah, a lot

1:20:14

of people were like, wow, I

1:20:16

could do audio books in this

1:20:18

and like my pastor does audio

1:20:20

books and I'm doing an audio

1:20:23

book and yeah, we can do

1:20:25

that for you. That's cool. Cast

1:20:28

Peelan 2000 Sats through Fountain.

1:20:30

He says wallet was empty

1:20:32

so a boost you see

1:20:34

so a boost versus streaming

1:20:36

Sats. Thank you for the

1:20:38

work. Thank you for the

1:20:40

boost Let me make sure

1:20:42

that I'm in the right

1:20:44

spot and I am for

1:20:46

comic strip blogger blogger delimiter

1:20:48

Nah. Comedy strip bloggers open

1:20:50

in the wallet 37,000 and

1:20:52

26 Sats through Fountain. He

1:20:54

says Howdy fellow Gentiles, Adam

1:20:57

and Dave! Today I'm sending

1:20:59

you $33 to celebrate one

1:21:01

Oscar 2025 award to a

1:21:03

real pain movie, a movie

1:21:05

about Jews, but said in

1:21:07

Poland. Note, Poland still looks

1:21:09

a little bleak because it

1:21:11

lost six million citizens murdered

1:21:13

in years 1939 through 1945,

1:21:15

including three million Polish Jews

1:21:17

like Roman Polanski and Jesse

1:21:19

Eisenberg. and three million ethnic

1:21:21

Poles like myself and Martha

1:21:23

Stewart. We're laughing about dead

1:21:25

Jews. Calm down. And Poland

1:21:27

lost 40 years of economic

1:21:29

development under Soviet occupation after

1:21:31

1945. No martial plan from

1:21:33

USA, etc. Yo, CSB. That's

1:21:35

a depressing note from CSB.

1:21:37

I will say, interestingly enough.

1:21:39

Because of his boostograms, and

1:21:41

he boosted into many different

1:21:43

shows, Curry and the Keeper

1:21:45

as well, about this movie...

1:21:47

I watched it. Was it

1:21:49

good? It's a very cute

1:21:51

movie. I mean, it's a

1:21:53

light-hearted comedy, I would say.

1:21:56

And I made the mistake

1:21:58

because, and the mistake I

1:22:00

made is because Tina got

1:22:02

mad at me because I'm

1:22:04

like, you know, let's just

1:22:06

watch the Academy Awards. And

1:22:08

like, it'll get better, just

1:22:10

hang in there, you know,

1:22:12

an hour late. Something will

1:22:14

happen now, it'll get better.

1:22:16

Nothing, nothing got better. But

1:22:18

it was fun to see

1:22:20

Kiernan Kalkin win Best Supporting

1:22:22

Actor. It is a very,

1:22:24

what's that with Toronto? It's

1:22:26

an endearing movie, it really

1:22:28

is. And it also reminded

1:22:30

me, no offense, comics or

1:22:32

blogger, but I don't need

1:22:34

to visit Poland. Because the

1:22:36

architecture is still, like, you

1:22:38

know, post-Soviet World War II.

1:22:40

It's like, oh, the whole

1:22:42

thing kind of looks depressing.

1:22:44

But it was an uplifting

1:22:46

movie, is a fun movie,

1:22:48

and he had promised that

1:22:50

he would boost every single

1:22:52

show who read his boostogram.

1:22:55

Everyone who talked about the

1:22:57

movie would get extra boost

1:22:59

for every single Oscar win.

1:23:01

So he came through, conned

1:23:03

your blogger. Good to his

1:23:05

word. Yeah. I bet the

1:23:07

country, I bet the Polish

1:23:09

countryside is beautiful. Oh, it

1:23:11

looks like, I mean, it's

1:23:13

in the movie, it looks

1:23:15

beautiful. Is it? Yeah, of

1:23:17

course. Because we would, I

1:23:19

met, you know, I met

1:23:21

my wife in Russia on

1:23:23

a mission trip. What? Yeah,

1:23:25

I didn't know. This is

1:23:27

where in Russia. What year?

1:23:29

This was in 1998 that

1:23:31

I met her. And we

1:23:33

were on a mission trip,

1:23:35

a church mission trip together

1:23:37

to a city called Lukavitsi.

1:23:39

which is I think like

1:23:41

45 minutes northeast of Moscow.

1:23:43

And so, you know, Moscow

1:23:45

was, Moscow was like depressing.

1:23:47

Oh, yeah, it was really

1:23:49

bad. Although, it was probably

1:23:51

just starting to climb out

1:23:54

and you would see in

1:23:56

downtown Moscow, you'd see, you

1:23:58

know. like Ermez and Tiffany

1:24:00

and Rolex stores, it was

1:24:02

like huge rich, rich portions

1:24:04

and then just poverty at

1:24:06

the other end. Yeah, and

1:24:08

like you would go, so

1:24:10

I remember, you know, we

1:24:12

were walking through Moscow, this

1:24:14

was I guess the wall

1:24:16

fell in what, 91, 90?

1:24:18

Yeah, right around there. Less

1:24:20

than a decade after that.

1:24:22

And we were walking downtown

1:24:24

Moscow and you would go

1:24:26

into these, They

1:24:28

had public bathrooms. And so then

1:24:30

you would, you know, you would

1:24:32

go down and they were all

1:24:35

underground. And that's where you met

1:24:37

her in the public. No, God,

1:24:39

no. No, no. You'd walk, you'd

1:24:41

walk down into this public bathroom.

1:24:43

And because basically there was just

1:24:46

no public services whatsoever anymore, they

1:24:48

were all just backed up and

1:24:50

just like, like, like, like, feces

1:24:52

everywhere. It was. Oh, it was

1:24:54

like a murder scene in every

1:24:56

one of these things. It was

1:24:59

awful. But then you get out

1:25:01

into the countryside, and it's just

1:25:03

like, it's like a completely different

1:25:05

world. Everything's beautiful. It's like, it's

1:25:07

like, it's like, they haven't been,

1:25:09

even been informed that anything's wrong.

1:25:12

They're just still like, you know,

1:25:14

killing chickens and eating, you know,

1:25:16

stuff. This is funny, though, the

1:25:18

past, the preacher that we went

1:25:20

with. So, the missionary that was

1:25:23

hosting us, he said, because, well,

1:25:25

to frame this in a little

1:25:27

bit, the southern Baptist, southern Baptist,

1:25:29

there was a big contingency of

1:25:31

Baptists in Russia. That was a

1:25:33

big denomination in Russia. Of course,

1:25:36

it was all underground or communism.

1:25:38

But there's tons of Baptists in

1:25:40

Russia. And so that's how we.

1:25:42

connected over there because I grew

1:25:44

up Baptist. So then we went

1:25:46

to this Baptist preacher in in

1:25:49

Lukaviti asked our preacher that was

1:25:51

with us to do a funeral

1:25:53

service. Wow. And so one of,

1:25:55

for like somebody's dead, like mother.

1:25:57

And so he said, you know,

1:26:00

the pastor that was with us,

1:26:02

he said, I always carry three

1:26:04

things, an extra sermon, just in

1:26:06

case I need it. and my

1:26:08

notes for doing a funeral and

1:26:10

a wedding. He's like, because you

1:26:13

never know when somebody's gonna spring

1:26:15

one of those things on you.

1:26:17

And sure enough, he's some, they

1:26:19

asked him to do his funeral.

1:26:21

So he's like, yeah, I'll do

1:26:23

it, you know, sure, I'll be

1:26:26

glad to. And so they show,

1:26:28

they drive him to this house

1:26:30

in the heat, they go inside,

1:26:32

and there's the, there's the old

1:26:34

lady on the kitchen table, dead.

1:26:36

No way. Yeah, straight up, she's

1:26:39

just dead on the kitchen table,

1:26:41

you know, eyes shut, flowers in

1:26:43

her hair and they're like, all

1:26:45

right, go. He's like, holy cow,

1:26:47

so he's just doing this sermon.

1:26:50

And then he said then they,

1:26:52

after this, after the funeral is

1:26:54

over, a bunch of dudes came

1:26:56

in and they lifted her up

1:26:58

and like, like pushed her out

1:27:00

the window to some other dudes

1:27:03

who lowered her in a coffin

1:27:05

and buried her in the backyard.

1:27:07

Wow. Yes, that's how I want

1:27:09

to go, man. Just laid me

1:27:11

out on the kitchen table, on

1:27:13

the kitchen table, on the kitchen

1:27:16

table, the kitchen table, Yeah, he

1:27:18

said it was all done in

1:27:20

45 minutes. They wrap that thing

1:27:22

up. Well, there's that nice and

1:27:24

quick. Beautiful, beautiful. All right, brother.

1:27:27

Will you have yourself a great

1:27:29

restful weekend? You doing anything this

1:27:31

weekend? I am. sanding a room

1:27:33

of drywall so I can paint

1:27:35

it. Oh that's right. Dave has

1:27:37

also been building his house during

1:27:40

this past five years since we've

1:27:42

been doing podcast index. I forgot

1:27:44

to mention that. Yeah. This house

1:27:46

will continue to be built for

1:27:48

the next, until I die. Forever.

1:27:50

All right brother have yourself a

1:27:53

great weekend. Thank you so much.

1:27:55

All right man. Thank you very

1:27:57

much. Bored room

1:27:59

y 'all are good.

1:28:02

We love you all We'll be back next

1:28:04

Friday with another with another

1:28:07

podcasting 2.0 are

1:28:20

cool.

1:28:24

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1:28:26

to 2 .0.

1:28:28

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1:28:30

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1:28:32

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1:28:34

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