0:01

So conscious parenting really is

0:03

about the parent understanding that

0:05

they need to raise themselves.

0:08

And what does that mean?

0:10

That means they need to

0:12

understand that they have inherited

0:15

a lot of unconscious baggage

0:17

from their childhood, that if

0:20

they do not heal that

0:22

they will pass it on

0:24

to their children. Welcome

0:27

to Point of Relation

0:29

with Thomas Hubel, a

0:31

podcast that illuminates the

0:33

path to collective healing

0:35

at the intersection of

0:37

science and mysticism. This

0:39

is the point of

0:41

relation. The following interview

0:44

was recorded during a

0:46

previous collective healing conference. A

0:48

free online gathering convened annually

0:50

by Thomas Hubel. to explore

0:52

insights and share practices for

0:54

worldwide healing and change. Dr.

0:56

Shafali is a New York

0:58

Times best-selling author of books

1:00

on conscious living and mindful

1:02

living. She is the founder

1:05

of the Conscious Parenting and

1:07

Life Coaching Institute, where she

1:09

trains coaches to use her

1:11

method and to help others.

1:13

Dr. Shafali has her own

1:15

podcast called Parenting and You

1:17

with Dr. Shafali, which is

1:19

available everywhere podcasts are heard.

1:23

Welcome back to the collective

1:25

healing conference. My name is Thomas

1:27

Fubel, I'm the convener of the

1:30

Summit, and I'm very happy to

1:32

be speaking today to Dr. Chefali.

1:34

So, Dr. Chefali, we're welcome.

1:37

I'm very happy you're joining

1:39

us. Thank you, thank you for

1:41

having me. So, of course, I think

1:43

we have some passions in common, it

1:45

looks like, and because of course,

1:47

parenting, developmental trauma.

1:49

conscious parenting, how does

1:52

our world mature? And so

1:54

these are all topics I think

1:56

both of us are very passionate

1:58

about. So I'm parenting

2:04

is really the parent

2:06

realizing that they cannot

2:08

impose their needs, their

2:11

desires, their expectations on

2:13

their children, and until

2:15

they heal themselves, they

2:17

will project onto their

2:19

children their own unmet

2:22

fantasies. So conscious parenting

2:24

really is about the

2:26

parent understanding that they

2:28

need to raise themselves.

2:31

And what does that

2:33

mean? That means they

2:35

need to understand that

2:37

they have inherited a

2:40

lot of unconscious baggage

2:42

from their childhood, that

2:44

if they do not

2:46

heal that, they will

2:49

pass it on to

2:51

their children. And our

2:53

children do not deserve

2:55

to carry this burden.

2:58

It's up to us

3:00

to heal ourselves, to

3:02

clean our wounds, to

3:04

become whole within ourselves,

3:06

otherwise we will. control

3:09

and micromanage and over

3:11

try to helicopter our

3:13

children's existence and rob

3:15

them of their right

3:18

to their emotional destiny

3:20

and their emotional freedom.

3:22

So as a parent,

3:24

if I were an

3:27

apparent now and I

3:29

have no idea how

3:31

How would I just

3:33

notice my unconscious behavior?

3:36

So what are the

3:38

first steps when you

3:40

say, okay, a parent

3:42

that somehow resonates with

3:45

what you're saying? So

3:47

they are interested, but

3:49

they don't have a

3:51

lot of experience with

3:54

doing that in a

3:56

work. So how can

3:58

we... how from being

4:00

more unconscious how can

4:02

we become conscious parents?

4:05

Yeah I think the first step

4:07

is to to watch and become

4:09

aware of when we're being triggered

4:11

so if you're losing your

4:14

temper if you're you know

4:16

really frustrated all the time

4:18

or you're really angry or

4:20

impatient or exhausted That means

4:22

there's something going on in

4:25

your emotional world that you

4:27

are not taking care of.

4:29

And it can probably show

4:31

up as spikes with your

4:34

children or arguments with your

4:36

partner or you're procrastinating and

4:38

missing deadlines or a little

4:40

bit of everything. And that's

4:43

a wake-up call to realize that

4:45

there's something that is not... aligned

4:47

and either we're taking on too

4:49

much work or we're carrying too

4:51

much about what people think or

4:53

we're needing out of scarcity and

4:56

lack. There is some pressure inside that

4:58

is creating this outer conflict. So no

5:00

one can help anyone become aware, right?

5:02

So sometimes parents come to me and

5:05

say, oh, do you think I should

5:07

put a rubber band on my... wrist

5:09

so I can pull the rubber band

5:11

every time I'm triggered so that I

5:14

will remember not to get triggered. So

5:16

I say, great idea. And then they

5:18

say, but I will I remember to

5:20

do to pull the wrong run. And

5:23

so that I say, oh, you remember

5:25

because every time you're upset, that

5:27

should remind you. And then they'll

5:29

say, but when I'm upset, who

5:31

will journey in that moment? So.

5:34

Awakening is a very individual

5:36

idiosyncratic process and no one can

5:38

do it for anyone. But if

5:40

one is in a lot of

5:43

distress and a lot of pain, that is

5:45

the best wake-up call. So I

5:47

often will tell my clients, okay,

5:49

come and see me when you're

5:51

in more pain because you're not

5:54

in enough pain right now. You're

5:56

too comfortable. And when people are

5:58

comfortable, they don't grow. do

6:00

not change. It's only when there's

6:02

enough pain in their lives that

6:04

there's a slight chance that the

6:07

evil will fall apart and they'll

6:09

be ready to try out a

6:11

new way. So let's let's stay

6:13

there for a moment. So what

6:15

you're saying basically is like that

6:18

when we are in discomfort there's

6:20

a higher chance to grow. So

6:22

that's a pressure to grow. Is

6:24

there is there any chance that

6:26

for people that feel that they

6:29

They have a drive to grow,

6:31

like they want to grow. If

6:33

I understand you correctly, you're also

6:35

saying if somebody has any way

6:37

a strong drive to grow, then

6:40

there's a motivation also. Yeah, like

6:42

I grew and evolved in my

6:44

early 20s, not out of pain.

6:46

I did it out of curiosity,

6:48

out of seeking, out of joy,

6:50

out of excitement. So that is

6:53

also possible, but most people don't

6:55

do it that way. Most people

6:57

are forced. into this very shocking,

6:59

stelering, epiphanic, prophetic awakening because everything

7:01

is taken away from them. And

7:04

that's a good thing. It seems

7:06

like that's a bad thing, but

7:08

that's actually a good thing. Because

7:10

the reason it was taken away

7:12

is because it wasn't meant for

7:15

us in the first place. So

7:17

if a person who wins the

7:19

lotto and then loses all his

7:21

money in two weeks, that's a

7:23

good thing. Because they were not

7:26

aligned with keeping the money from

7:28

the lotto. Or if your marriage

7:30

falls apart and you're like, oh

7:32

my God, that's a bad thing.

7:34

No, that's a good thing because

7:36

it was not sustainable. things will

7:39

not be sustainable. At some point

7:41

or the other it will fall

7:43

apart. So whether today or tomorrow,

7:45

it's coming. Can you say a

7:47

few more sentences about when you

7:50

say it was not aligned? What

7:52

does it mean to be aligned?

7:54

So for example, if you are

7:56

friends with someone and you actually

7:58

don't like them. But you're

8:00

keeping up the appearance so you're in

8:02

the role or the persona of being

8:04

a good girl. So you keep talking

8:06

to the friend, you keep talking to

8:08

the friend, but you just don't like

8:11

them and it keeps building up. At

8:13

some point without you realizing, you

8:15

or the friend are

8:17

going to say something that

8:19

will expose this inauthenticity. So,

8:23

and then both of you may be

8:25

surprised like, how did we break

8:27

up so fast or where did this

8:29

come from? It came from a

8:31

lot of suppression that we are not

8:33

aware of. And I see this

8:35

a lot in couples where the couple

8:37

is not willing to confront the

8:39

truth of what's really going on. So

8:42

they suppress, they suppress, they suppress, but then

8:44

the anger builds up and the resentment builds

8:46

up. And then before you know it, they

8:48

are cheating or before you know it, they've

8:50

left that marriage. And they're like, oh, it

8:53

happened all of a sudden. It

8:55

never happens all of a sudden.

8:57

It's like a buildup which is not

8:59

aware of it in real time. So

9:02

what I hear is also that you're

9:04

saying alignment is when we are

9:06

more in touch with what's authentically true

9:08

for us and the more we

9:10

can live from that place and share

9:12

and relate from that place. Yes. So

9:15

for example, if your friend is me

9:17

to you and you really don't feel good,

9:19

you feel hurt, but you don't bring

9:21

it up. And then again in

9:23

six weeks, she's again me to you and

9:25

you feel you're feeling something but you

9:27

don't express it or you don't even honor

9:29

it or you don't even pay attention

9:31

to it. And that's what

9:33

is misalignment. So alignment

9:36

is when you are aware

9:38

that you are having

9:40

a feeling in the moment,

9:42

but because you've been

9:44

trained over years, decades

9:46

to ignore that feeling because

9:48

you were told in childhood

9:50

that your feelings are not

9:52

important, you learn to bypass

9:54

those feelings. But the feelings

9:56

keep growing in you and

9:58

eventually they will. affect your behavior.

10:01

And then before you know it in

10:03

two years, you're cursing your friend out

10:05

and your friend is like, what's wrong

10:07

with you? And you're like, you always

10:09

do this. And she's like, I always

10:11

do that. You've not even told me

10:13

this one time. This is what the

10:15

buildup is. And it's a good thing

10:17

when it exposes itself, but it would

10:19

be a better thing if you could

10:21

learn in the moment, if we could

10:23

all learn in the moment. Okay, what's

10:25

going on? Like just this morning,

10:27

I had somebody send me

10:29

a text and my initial

10:31

reaction was like, oh, it's okay. No

10:34

problem. But then I checked in

10:36

a little later to myself and

10:38

I realized no, it was a problem.

10:40

So then I texted her back and

10:42

I said, you know what? To be

10:44

honest, I am having a problem and

10:47

I need to be honest with you

10:49

and hear all my feelings. And then

10:51

we took care of it in the

10:53

moment and we could move on. But

10:55

we try, at least we have

10:57

to try to acknowledge honor and

11:00

become aware of what's going on

11:02

inside. But because in childhood we

11:04

were so disengaged from our

11:06

inner knowing from our parents, we

11:08

were so cut off from our

11:10

inner power that it's very quick

11:12

for us to do it, especially

11:14

women. We do it like without

11:16

even realizing we do it. We're

11:19

not even aware that we should

11:21

check in with ourselves every moment

11:23

and see how we feel. We're

11:25

not even aware that we can leave a

11:27

room, right? I've not to tell clients,

11:29

that's why you have two legs, you

11:31

can leave. Or you can keep your mouth

11:34

shut, that's where your lips, you can

11:36

keep a shirt. And they're like, oh,

11:38

I never realized that was an option,

11:41

right? Because we're so indoctrinated to

11:43

just react. So what that's beautiful, also

11:45

your example. So you're saying basically,

11:47

when I check in with myself

11:49

and I feel some discomfort, the

11:51

healthy. part of it would be

11:54

to share it as soon as

11:56

possible and to bring it into

11:58

connection and whether the other can

12:00

take it or not is not so

12:03

much to focus, but it's very important

12:05

that I can share it, right? Yeah,

12:07

but don't, if you're feeling that you're

12:10

in a volcanic turmoil, then it's good

12:12

not to share it in that moment.

12:14

What's most important is to create a

12:16

red flag inside yourself and let your

12:19

body talk to you and tell you,

12:21

oh, something's off. and you can go

12:23

process it in a journal, you can

12:26

call another friend, you can sit on

12:28

it, you can meditate. There are many

12:30

things you can do, but what I'm

12:33

saying not to do is to just

12:35

bypass and learn to tap into yourself

12:37

every hour or any time there's a

12:40

big decision or something comes at you.

12:42

You can tell you, so if you

12:44

know what, I have a friend and

12:47

that friend is me and I can

12:49

check it with my friend. How is

12:51

my friend feeling right now? and give

12:54

yourself validity and the space to at

12:56

least explore it for yourself. So that's

12:58

beautiful. And when you say check in,

13:01

let your body talk to you. I

13:03

mean, for some of us, maybe that's

13:05

very natural, that our body is a

13:07

place where we feel at home. For

13:10

some of us, it's not natural at

13:12

all. So we are much more in

13:14

the thinking, should I do this? Should

13:17

I have all kinds of thoughts about

13:19

situations? I think in the night, I

13:21

think, you know, I'm... So maybe you

13:24

can share a little bit because that's

13:26

a very powerful tool that you describe.

13:28

Listen to your body, let your body

13:31

talk to you. What do you recommend

13:33

to people that feel that they have

13:35

a harder time connecting to their body

13:38

in the first place? Maybe you can

13:40

speak a bit how you work with

13:42

your clients that don't have immediately such

13:45

a good access to their body. Yes.

13:47

So if anyone's listening and they... or

13:49

thinking to themselves, I don't even know

13:51

what she's talking about, like, and I

13:54

don't have never had my body talk

13:56

to me. For example, when that friend

13:58

texted me, immediately I felt queasy in

14:01

my tummy, right? I felt unsettled. body

14:03

was very clearly telling me that up

14:05

something's off. But that's because I'm listening

14:08

and I'm connected. So if anyone out

14:10

there is listening and saying to themselves

14:12

that they don't know what this is

14:15

all about and you're curious, then

14:17

the body awareness is like a

14:19

whole journey you need to undertake.

14:22

But in a nutshell, it's practicing,

14:24

you know, with a timer every

14:27

10 minutes. Okay. If my chest

14:29

could talk, what would it say?

14:31

If my stomach could talk,

14:33

what would it say? Where am

14:35

I feeling the stress in my

14:37

body right now? Am I feeling

14:39

it in my throat, in my

14:41

shoulders? What would it say?

14:43

What are its feelings? And we

14:46

begin to use the wisdom of

14:48

this very important

14:50

knowledge source to tell us what

14:52

our emotional weather is

14:54

like. It's like. It's like you're

14:57

going to. you know, Antarctica or

14:59

the Arctic Circle, you would check

15:01

the weather all the time or

15:04

you would check the conditions. Why

15:06

don't we learn to check our

15:08

own conditions, right? Well, what am

15:10

I really feeling right now? And

15:12

let me, what are my thoughts? What

15:14

are my feelings? It sounds so

15:16

simple and basic, but we're

15:18

not doing this. And when we

15:21

don't do this, We slowly begin

15:23

to drift further and further away

15:25

from our truth. And then before

15:27

you know it, you live 20

15:29

years, marriage is someone who you

15:32

don't even like, you know, and

15:34

you're like, where did the time

15:36

go? It's because of this, you

15:38

know, the soul erosion, I call

15:40

it in one of my books,

15:43

it's his gradual erosion of the

15:45

soul that begins in childhood as

15:47

a girl, especially, but then we

15:49

are the biggest perpetrators of

15:52

our own abandonment, and we

15:54

kind of then just give

15:56

divorce and give away our

15:58

power, and then we are

16:00

facing autoimmune diseases, we're overweight,

16:02

we're exhausted, it's because we're

16:04

not living for ourselves, we're

16:07

living for the validation of

16:09

others. Now that's very powerful.

16:11

So I think you're sharing

16:13

one very important thing at

16:15

least, as in my understanding,

16:17

like the deeper embodiment as

16:19

a source of wisdom, as

16:21

a source of knowledge, and

16:23

then listening to these impulses,

16:25

and also you said that

16:27

it's a journey for many

16:29

of a... journey to re-enhabit

16:31

our body. So what's actually

16:33

the reason why we are

16:35

not in our body? Why

16:37

do we need to go

16:39

on a journey to reclaim

16:42

our body? What's the process

16:44

of not being in the

16:46

body then? Yeah, yeah. So

16:48

there's two reasons we're not

16:50

in the body. Number one,

16:52

because collectively, and that's why

16:54

your work is so important,

16:56

collectively we have steered ourselves

16:58

so far away from our

17:00

original blueprint. We're living in

17:02

just completely toxic ways compared

17:04

to how we should live,

17:06

like we should be living

17:08

in community and interconnected and

17:10

we shouldn't, you know, be

17:12

living in nature and moving

17:15

and not be indoors and

17:17

living in these nuclear families

17:19

where we're bound to one

17:21

person in a matter of

17:23

contracting, don't feel like we

17:25

can move out of it,

17:27

or we are racing ahead

17:29

of time and trying to

17:31

achieve or succeed or fit

17:33

in. So all these parameters

17:35

can lead to a lot

17:37

of stress. And the second

17:39

reason is because as children,

17:41

when we were in our

17:43

bodies, Our parents were not

17:45

in their bodies. Our parents

17:47

were out of control and

17:50

unconscious and cut off. So

17:52

they took us into survival

17:54

mode. And to be in

17:56

survival mode, we couldn't be

17:58

in this safe place inside

18:00

our we began being in

18:02

our ego to protect ourselves

18:04

and to defend against the

18:06

craziness of the world. So

18:08

because of these two forces

18:10

which work really interdependently we

18:13

are now in this place

18:15

where we are so out

18:17

of alignment with not only

18:19

the way we should be living

18:21

but who is me authentically are.

18:24

Yeah, that's beautiful. And you also,

18:26

what I hear you say is on

18:28

the one hand, there's children moving out

18:31

of the body is actually an intelligent

18:33

process because of, well, that we don't

18:35

feel in that way, so that because

18:37

we cannot stay in that overwhelm that

18:39

we are in. So thing for, because

18:41

I feel that for many people, it's

18:43

very important to see that when they

18:45

say they can't feel their body, I

18:47

often say, yeah, but you could leave

18:49

your body. Yeah. as an intelligence in

18:52

living, so it's not just

18:54

a pathological thing, it's a

18:56

process and we can reverse

18:58

process, so that's beautiful. And

19:01

I think also what you

19:03

said collectively, that gets amplified

19:05

a lot and have also

19:07

like a world with intellectual

19:09

rational thinking, it gets so

19:11

much validation versus it seems

19:14

too simple to have a body wisdom

19:16

speak. What can we do that

19:18

our children, like... and stay

19:20

in their bodies better so that

19:22

they can develop for themselves

19:25

like the deeper body awareness

19:27

over time as the developing

19:30

key bits in a way

19:32

and grow through their body

19:35

and anchor themselves and what

19:37

kind of what's the interrelation

19:40

between embodiment and relationship

19:42

like a proper relationship

19:44

and embodiment. So as

19:46

parents, you know, it's

19:48

so important. We don't do

19:51

so many things. So number

19:53

one, we don't put our

19:55

stress onto our children's lab

19:57

because then they absorb into.

20:00

they're young and they're not ready

20:02

to get the burden of that.

20:04

Number two, when they are having

20:06

emotions and feelings, we tap into

20:09

them, don't get them to tap

20:11

out so that they realize that

20:13

they can have feelings, it's okay,

20:16

it's safe. And I would say

20:18

number three is really to allow

20:20

them to trust their inner voice

20:22

because that's going to be the

20:25

ultimate power source. to tell them

20:27

who is a danger, who is

20:29

somebody they can trust, whether they

20:31

should put all their investment in

20:34

a career of this kind or

20:36

that kind. It has to come

20:38

from here, but if parents don't

20:40

train children to stay in their

20:42

bodies and to honor their bodies,

20:45

the children will keep doubting

20:47

themselves and culture keeps taking

20:49

us out of our bodies

20:51

anyway. to get external validation anyway.

20:53

How much money do you have?

20:55

And because, do you have, how

20:57

do you look? What kind of

20:59

Instagram following do you have? It's

21:02

all external and it's not connected

21:04

to the internal. So those are

21:06

the things that parents can do.

21:09

And in terms of your question,

21:11

what is the relationship between embodiment

21:13

and relationship? Oh my goodness. If

21:15

we're not safe in a relationship,

21:18

we cannot stay embodied. a

21:20

good relationship, a healthy relationship, allows

21:22

the child or the human being

21:25

to stay in their body, not

21:27

in our body, not in culture's

21:29

body, in their body. And the

21:31

person feels safe to cry to

21:34

want to have sex, to talk

21:36

about their fantasies, to talk about

21:38

their anger, to talk about their

21:41

regrets. Like that's the embodied experience.

21:43

And they feel safe to do

21:45

that. So relationships can. really help

21:47

people feel safe and you know

21:50

in your adult life right now

21:52

as you're listening and if people

21:54

don't feel safe to you then

21:57

that is a wake-up call for you.

21:59

Also if you don't have a lot

22:01

of people coming to you saying that

22:03

you make them feel safe, that's

22:06

a wake-up call too, right? So I

22:08

check in with my relationships and I

22:10

know for the most part, people will

22:12

tell me, oh, I feel safer with

22:15

you than anybody, I can tell you

22:17

anything. That's not to give me

22:19

praise, but that's to make me

22:22

validated that, okay. I am doing my

22:24

inner work where I'm not imposing my

22:26

fantasies and thoughts on other people. And

22:28

I check in all the time to

22:30

make sure my daughter feels safe with

22:33

me. She may not like me, but

22:35

does she feel safe with me? You

22:37

see, because liking someone are not liking

22:39

someone is not the question. It's about

22:42

does that person feel they can be

22:44

authentically themselves? That is the greatest gift

22:46

you can give your children and anyone

22:48

else. Oh, do they feel loved by

22:51

me? You know, we can feel loved

22:53

by a lot of people, but still

22:55

not being safe with them. Safety

22:57

is a whole other level. Like, for

22:59

example, I have a client who

23:01

tells me that her mother adores her

23:03

and she knows her mother adores her,

23:06

but she doesn't tell her mother anything.

23:08

Because she knows her mother will

23:10

fall apart, her mother cannot handle

23:13

the emotions. So for me, possibly I

23:15

think if someone tells me, I feel

23:17

so safe with you. Wow, that takes a

23:19

lot and you don't take it

23:21

personally, right? Most of us don't make

23:24

our partners feel safe. It means you

23:26

don't judge the person, you don't impose

23:28

your way, you truly attune to them

23:31

and listen to them, and you don't

23:33

give them sermons and lectures

23:35

and commands. Wow, that takes a

23:37

lot and you don't take it

23:39

personally, right? Most of us don't make

23:42

our partners feel safe with us.

23:44

Most of us have partners who

23:46

do not tell us everything. Yeah,

23:48

that's beautiful. I love

23:50

it. And also, most

23:52

probably, to add to the list

23:55

that we feel safe ourselves

23:57

in order to do for other

23:59

people. point. Do we feel

24:01

safe with ourselves? Like would we

24:04

be the first person we go

24:06

to? Right? Right? Both of us

24:08

won't even think of that. So

24:10

I didn't even think of it.

24:13

So I take it as a given.

24:15

You're so right. Most of us will

24:17

not even count on ourselves. Like

24:19

you should put our own name,

24:22

you know, as our first and

24:24

so as contact, but we don't

24:26

rely on ourselves. Right and and

24:28

all the things that we named

24:30

now they are so powerful because

24:33

there's a lot of intellectual talk

24:35

now so in organizations and in

24:37

different places and so how do

24:39

we create psychological safety but that

24:41

we can create it only when

24:43

we feel safe inside and that

24:45

if we can listen and if

24:47

we don't text other people you

24:49

know like don't speak told the

24:51

lectures all the things that you

24:53

mentioned they are super important. So

24:55

now, let's say as a father. Let's

24:58

say my daughter triggers me. So

25:00

maybe you can first say

25:02

a few words about trigger,

25:04

where maybe some people understand

25:06

what you mean when you

25:08

say trigger. And the second

25:10

thing is, so when I'm

25:12

triggered, so what options do

25:14

I have? Because most of the

25:17

time it feels like when I'm

25:19

triggered, the options are very few.

25:21

So how can I create more

25:24

possibility when I'm triggered? that

25:26

I have a little bit more

25:28

choice. Otherwise, what I often say,

25:30

my past decides for me.

25:32

So I just react. Oh, how

25:35

can we increase our

25:37

options when we are triggered? Yeah.

25:39

So first, actually, if you're

25:42

a real seeker of wisdom,

25:44

which I think your audience says,

25:46

we have to, have to, have

25:49

to agree that there is no

25:51

real trigger on the outside. Right.

25:53

So what we have is a flame.

25:55

that a lot makes

25:58

of fun. out of

26:00

the inside, right? The inside

26:03

explosion, explosive.

26:05

If there's no

26:07

explosive inside, and if

26:09

it's only water, then

26:11

you can put the flame,

26:13

the water will take the

26:15

flame out. So first we

26:17

should get rid of this

26:20

delusion that it's

26:22

in, it's hard, it's

26:24

done, that is igniting

26:26

the explosion that already

26:28

exists. it wouldn't light,

26:30

right? So the next step is

26:33

to understand that we play

26:35

a huge role in our

26:37

co-creation in taking things personally

26:40

as a trigger or not.

26:42

So the co-creation is very

26:44

important. Number one, there's no

26:46

trigger. Number two, okay, if

26:49

there was a trigger, it's

26:51

because it's co-created. And then

26:53

number three is, okay, what

26:55

in my past? is showing

26:57

up in my present. So

26:59

these three awareness is a

27:02

constant engine that our awareness

27:04

needs to run on, because

27:06

we can be triggered any

27:08

moment, any time. So to

27:10

always be aware, then the

27:12

most important thing is

27:14

to practice present moment

27:17

awareness, yes, like always

27:19

keeping that awareness in the

27:21

here and now, and kind

27:23

of creating an insulation against

27:25

the rest of the world

27:27

because right now if you

27:29

and I could just tap

27:31

into ourselves and tell ourselves

27:34

right now and here right now I'm

27:36

alive right now look at the sky

27:38

right now touch the brown right now

27:40

if you just do this grounding

27:42

exercise you were realizing

27:44

this moment as long as

27:47

you're breathing you are really

27:49

okay you may not like what's coming

27:51

out of Sam's mouth and you may not

27:53

like what's coming out of Becky's mouth and you

27:55

may not like what's coming out of Rebecca's much.

27:57

You may not like the weather. You may not...

28:00

like the traffic, but all those things are

28:02

on the outside. If

28:04

you could just get back into

28:06

your little bubble and go, I'm

28:08

here, I'm alive, this is fine,

28:10

I'm okay, the sky is beautiful,

28:12

the warmth is amazing, this moment

28:14

is fine, then you created this

28:16

insulation and that creates the space.

28:18

But if you're someone who has

28:20

not done all this work, then

28:22

you're gonna be hijacked because you

28:24

truly believe that the outside is

28:26

a trigger. You truly believe you

28:29

have nothing to do with it

28:31

and you have no power and

28:33

you truly don't know how to

28:35

stay in the present moment, so

28:37

it's not your fault, but you're

28:39

going to get hijacked every day.

28:41

Just yesterday I was with someone

28:43

and I saw that we lose

28:45

their shit and they had no

28:47

control over themselves because

28:50

like you said, they're past,

28:52

their unprocessed pain took over

28:54

and that's why we have

28:56

to live in the present

28:58

moment and keep cleaning our

29:00

internal chaos every single day.

29:02

We need to take that

29:04

bucket and look at our

29:06

chaos and then empty it

29:08

out through some sort of

29:10

healing work. But most of

29:12

us don't think it's important,

29:14

most of us don't give

29:16

the time. We will take

29:18

our kids to Six Flags

29:20

and Disney World and do

29:22

a movie, but we won't

29:24

do this work. But yet

29:26

this is the work that

29:28

if not done, if undone,

29:30

can cause the greatest damage.

29:34

Yeah, that's beautiful. So what

29:36

do you say we take

29:38

our kids to the Disney

29:40

World but we don't do

29:42

this work? And I think

29:45

that how entertainment and even

29:47

things that we do not

29:49

to feel, not to do

29:51

this work are actually so

29:53

popular. We just, there's a

29:56

lot about our society, like

29:58

how anesthetized we are and

30:00

we keep ourselves being anesthetized

30:02

through all kinds of ways

30:04

and... And what I also hear you say is, okay,

30:06

there needs to be some kind of commitment to this

30:09

work. And I love your emphasis on commitment, like I

30:11

need to put some energy into this. And it's

30:13

not just a one time thing. And

30:15

maybe you can speak a little

30:17

bit about, because there, I think

30:20

that there are many suggested pathways

30:22

that sound to me often

30:24

like fast food. You know, like,

30:26

okay, you. in three steps you're

30:28

going to be the amazing parent

30:30

or in three steps you're going

30:32

to be enlightened or in three

30:34

steps. So there's a lot of

30:37

that out there. And I think

30:39

it kind of eludes a bit

30:41

the real work environment that we

30:43

need to say, okay, we set

30:45

expectations that are doable and that

30:47

it's a long-term path, a developmental

30:49

path. So maybe you can speak

30:51

a bit how you look at this.

30:53

What's actually say, okay, what can I...

30:55

count with when I say, okay, I

30:58

want to do your work. How long

31:00

will it take me or what, how

31:02

is it working? You know?

31:04

Yeah, so because everyone is

31:06

under this mad idea that

31:08

there's not enough time

31:10

and anything to happen

31:13

in the moment, what we do

31:15

is we give them the illusion

31:17

and that, okay, I can fix

31:19

you, take this course. So you

31:22

start with a little bit of

31:24

a teaser. And so I have courses

31:26

that are just 15 hours, so they

31:28

can be done in three days or

31:30

four days. I mean, that's the minimum.

31:33

Nothing's gonna happen just because we say

31:35

one, two, three, right? So to do

31:37

a little bit of work, 15 hours

31:39

is nothing. So I have short courses

31:42

and then I have bigger courses. And

31:44

once I get the person through the

31:46

door, then they are more open. But

31:48

I think it's a mistake of spiritual

31:51

teachers to make it too scary, right.

31:53

of the start, right? So I give

31:55

one or two tips for the parent,

31:57

I say just try this and then

32:00

they tried and they're like wow right

32:02

the other day I was at the

32:04

client she's like I've done so much

32:06

therapy but you in one session changed

32:08

my mindset in one session but

32:10

the session took like an hour

32:12

and a half so we do

32:14

need to invest something but there

32:16

are results that you can see

32:18

right away about them to sustain

32:20

those results you need to do

32:22

this work but once you start

32:24

it's so addictive because you begin

32:26

to see the beauty of it

32:28

and you can have the mental

32:30

peace and the liberation, you will

32:32

want to do this work yourself.

32:34

So anyone listening is liking this

32:36

summit, you should explore. Take a

32:39

course, read a book. You know,

32:41

I've written seven books. I have

32:43

a podcast. There's enough information out

32:45

there for free or very cheap

32:47

that you can begin to listen

32:50

to accelerate that journey. Yeah,

32:52

that's beautiful. So there are

32:54

smaller bites and the smaller

32:56

bites are the flame more

32:58

and more until it's burning. Right,

33:01

that's pretty. And so let's

33:03

come back to the parent-child relationship

33:05

now. So how as a parent

33:07

can I grow? So I start

33:09

to do my work. That's the

33:12

suggestion. And then how do some

33:14

people say, okay, now it was

33:16

great for a few years, but

33:18

now it's really difficult with my

33:20

child. How do you work

33:22

on this disentanglement that now

33:25

it's really difficult? Now my

33:27

child is really difficult. If

33:29

somebody comes to you like

33:32

that, so how would we

33:34

go deeper with something, this

33:36

kind of family situations? Yeah,

33:38

so... Typically, parents do find it

33:40

harder as the children grow older because

33:42

the children are out of the control

33:45

of the parents. So I just deal

33:47

with it in the moment. I go,

33:49

okay, it doesn't matter what you had

33:51

before. It doesn't matter how bad it was

33:53

or how good it is, how good it

33:55

was. Let's start with the present moment. I

33:57

don't really care what happened two weeks ago.

34:00

stress right now, I prefer

34:02

to just focus on what's happening right

34:04

now. And I

34:06

teach parents to let

34:08

go of this fantasy that

34:10

their relationship with their children would remain

34:12

the same. Very few

34:14

relationships stay the same. So you may

34:16

have had a great childhood bonding

34:19

with your children, but then in teenagehood

34:21

they say they hate you every

34:23

day. And then in adulthood, they don't

34:25

want to live near you or

34:27

see you. And then maybe in their

34:29

40s, they'll come back to you.

34:31

We cannot control this more than

34:33

we are supposed to. The

34:35

main control we're supposed to have is

34:37

just over ourselves. So

34:39

as long as we're working on ourselves, then

34:42

the relationship will kind of work

34:45

itself out as it's meant to.

34:47

Many times you can be the

34:49

most loving parent, and the

34:51

child still wants to live 5 ,000

34:53

miles away from you. That doesn't mean

34:55

you're a bad parent. It just means

34:57

maybe you've done an even better job

34:59

because your child thinks they can live

35:01

on their own. So don't focus on

35:03

how the relationship looks on the outside.

35:05

Focus on how you are showing up

35:07

from the inside. That's beautiful.

35:09

And so let's say parents

35:11

lived for some years as parents

35:13

and then they know that

35:15

some things went wrong in the

35:17

relationship with their kids, then

35:19

they find your work and they

35:21

start to become more conscious.

35:23

And then often people ask, okay,

35:25

but how can I take

35:27

care now that I see all

35:29

of that? I see also

35:32

everything that was there before and

35:34

then how it affected my

35:36

child. So what would you suggest

35:38

to parents that see that awaken

35:40

suddenly to a deeper understanding

35:42

and then they see much more

35:44

what happened in the first

35:46

5 or 6 years with their

35:48

child? So how would you

35:50

work with what happened before

35:52

somebody had this kind of

35:55

expansion and deeper understanding? Something

36:00

in the past, again, we, as

36:03

much as it hurts, we have

36:05

to find compassion for our

36:07

past mistakes and just

36:09

surrender that I did

36:11

the best I could with

36:13

the consciousness I had, with

36:16

the wounds I had, with

36:18

the history I had, but

36:20

I'm here now. So whatever I

36:22

can do right now to...

36:24

clean it out in the

36:26

present moment. Whatever I can

36:28

do right now to salvage

36:30

the present situation, that's the

36:32

best I can do. I

36:34

cannot do more than this. So

36:37

we have to learn to release

36:39

ourselves from the. brutal unconsciousness

36:41

of our histories. Because there's

36:43

not a single person who

36:45

wasn't unconscious till they became

36:47

conscious. And even those who

36:49

are conscious are not 100%

36:51

conscious. So we cannot put

36:53

this idealistic, utopic expectation on

36:55

ourselves that, oh, we should

36:58

have been perfect. No, you tell

37:00

your child, I came to a

37:02

really fucked up background. I'm really

37:04

sorry. I did the best I

37:06

could, I didn't know any better.

37:08

I suffered with you. I'm sorry

37:10

you think I've ruined your life.

37:12

I'm doing the best I can.

37:15

Part of having children is this

37:17

utter humility, this realization that we are

37:19

really, really, really flawed. And

37:21

there's not a single parent

37:23

in the world who is

37:25

perfect, not one. And we have

37:27

to just accept that, that we

37:29

are flawed. Yeah, right. And even

37:31

the thought of the idea that there

37:34

is something like perfect is interesting to

37:36

explore. Does that mean when I put

37:38

that on myself? Right. So there is

37:40

like individual therapy that goes often back

37:42

into our own childhood experiences. And then

37:45

there is also kind of the more

37:47

ancestral dimension of our own. So how

37:49

parents felt, how their parents felt, how

37:51

their parents felt, how their parents

37:54

felt, how their parents felt, how

37:56

their parents felt, how their parents

37:58

felt, how their parents felt, What

38:00

was actually part of the family system

38:02

before we were here? And you said

38:04

many of us went through hardship ourselves

38:07

and then now we have parents. How

38:09

important do you think it is looking

38:11

at the kind of a little bit

38:13

the family system that we came out

38:15

of and some recurrent patterns that keep

38:18

replying themselves? Is that important? Should we

38:20

do that? Should we not do that?

38:22

How do you look at that? Well,

38:24

the patterns are going to repeat themselves,

38:27

whether you like it or not. It's

38:29

just a matter of understanding which are

38:31

the disruptive patterns that you don't want

38:33

to repeat and, you know, becoming conscious

38:36

in that moment to disconnect from the

38:38

past. But the patterns are going to

38:40

show up. There is no way. These

38:42

patterns are so profound. The reason why

38:44

is because the pattern created who you

38:47

are created who you are who you

38:49

are who you are created who you

38:51

are who you are who you are

38:53

who you are who you are who

38:56

you are who you are because you

38:58

lived in that pattern. So it's who

39:00

you are. So it's just going to

39:02

show up with you. You know, people

39:05

think, oh, I don't want to relive

39:07

my pattern, then you should, then you're

39:09

not alive. If you're alive, you're reliving

39:11

the pattern. You are the pattern. And

39:13

the only way to break out of

39:16

the pattern is if you really are

39:18

aware moment by moment that even then.

39:20

it's just a matter of doing the

39:22

pattern a little less or a little

39:25

worse or a little better but you're

39:27

going to do the pattern in some

39:29

version or the other because you are

39:31

the pattern. So here is let's say

39:34

when we switch a bit to the

39:36

collective that's a great transition. So When

39:38

we speak of patterns, we can see,

39:40

okay, there are these individual patterns, then

39:42

there are family patterns, and I believe

39:45

that's why we also do the summit,

39:47

there are many collective patterns that we

39:49

are reliving again and again as societies,

39:51

until we maybe find ways to become

39:54

more aware and to change the course

39:56

of that pattern. So one pattern, I

39:58

think, is, you know, nowadays, you have...

40:00

coaches for everything. All you have a coach

40:03

is this heavy coach is a

40:05

supervision is a therapist you have

40:07

all kinds of things. But what

40:09

I think we don't have yet

40:12

substantially given how important the

40:14

parenting process is and I

40:16

think you speak a lot

40:18

about that like we don't have

40:21

like parents schools like where

40:23

parents can go and that it's

40:26

built into the society that there

40:28

is some kind of supervision for

40:30

one of the most important processes

40:33

in society, we don't have actually

40:35

a structure. And maybe you can

40:37

share your thoughts what comes up

40:40

in you when I say that.

40:42

And the other part is maybe

40:45

why not? Yeah. So no, I've

40:47

been working on actually a concept

40:49

like that. And you're absolutely right.

40:51

There's no license, there's no

40:54

supervision, there's no continuing education,

40:56

there's no minimum requirements to

40:58

become a parent, it's just

41:01

free for all. And why

41:03

not? It's because I think

41:05

it has to do a little bit

41:08

with the indoctrination by religion,

41:10

which says, you know, this is your

41:12

divine right and you are actually

41:14

a good Catholic or a good

41:17

Muslim if you have children. So...

41:19

there was no requirement. You know,

41:21

it was seen as a divine

41:23

indoctrination. It was seen as biology.

41:26

It was seen as divinity. So

41:28

once you tell the parent that

41:30

they're divine for having a child,

41:32

why would they go and look at

41:34

themselves? But if they are told

41:36

that it's a biological, you know,

41:38

pause in effect, you're not nothing

41:41

special, go to school, then you

41:43

see there's a different... mentality,

41:46

if I'm told that I'm doing this

41:48

for God and God is giving me

41:50

blessing, this is God's blessing, and this

41:53

is all secret, why would I go question

41:55

myself? So it's very deep and

41:57

it's very insidious and sneak.

42:00

it's also very anti-child. So

42:02

what then would be a

42:04

healthy spirituality for parents? Like

42:06

how would you put this

42:08

and put this into a

42:10

more healthy spiritual alignment? Maybe

42:12

you showed us now a

42:14

shadow of the spiritual demote

42:16

or religious dimension. How would

42:18

that look like for people

42:20

that have a more aligned

42:22

spirituality? you know, for people

42:24

who have a more aligned

42:27

spiritualities doing this work that

42:29

I talk about about really

42:31

being connected to your self

42:33

so that you can then

42:35

be present and available for

42:37

your child and be able

42:39

to tolerate their unique manifestation

42:41

without needing to stroke it

42:43

with your pain brush. It

42:45

takes a lot of work.

42:47

This is the beauty of

42:49

this journey, and it is

42:51

a lot of power, this

42:53

relationship. If you are present

42:55

and aware and attuned, children

42:57

do respond to it. So

42:59

if we learn how to

43:01

do this more and more

43:03

and I'm still learning, and

43:05

that's what my books teach

43:08

and my podcast, then you

43:10

have a path forward to

43:12

make sure that as best

43:14

as possible, you're not passing

43:16

down your unconscious legacies. Beautiful.

43:18

So if you have one

43:20

more thing, I see our

43:22

time, blue by. If you

43:24

have one more suggestion, one

43:26

more practice, anything, or have

43:28

something that our listeners can

43:30

take away that you think

43:32

is important. So maybe you

43:34

can share that with us

43:36

and then we can slowly

43:38

rip up. Sure. So I

43:40

think the main thing for

43:42

listeners is that we don't

43:44

have to be bound by

43:46

the cages of our childhood.

43:48

There is a way to

43:51

liberate ourselves. There is a

43:53

way to live a life

43:55

of beauty and abundance and

43:57

likeness of being and transcendence.

43:59

of the ego. But in

44:01

order to arrive at that

44:03

path, you need to study

44:05

and cultivate your wisdom and

44:07

your knowledge and take courses

44:09

or join an institute or

44:11

join, you know, collected like

44:13

yours. You have to do

44:15

something because culture has taught

44:17

you everything but. consciousness. So in

44:20

order to reclaim consciousness you need

44:22

to do a lot of things.

44:24

But once you do, you will

44:26

live such a more productive, up

44:29

as full, you know, carefree, creative

44:31

life. And maybe one more thing

44:33

now that you're saying that I

44:35

will be very interested. If you can

44:38

say a few more sentences

44:40

about when we, when this

44:42

disembodyment that we spoke about

44:44

and social media, because many

44:46

of our kids or teenagers

44:49

are now on social media,

44:51

they are often in all

44:53

kinds of virtual spaces,

44:55

maybe you also have some

44:57

suggestion or some recommendation how

45:00

we can find a healthy

45:02

balance there for us. Yeah, I

45:04

think social media is the epitome

45:06

of disarmament and dissociation and disconnection.

45:09

And I think parents and young

45:11

children at least till the age

45:13

of 13 or 14 should keep

45:15

their children away. And if you're

45:17

a parent listening and your child

45:20

is already addicted, well, I have

45:22

a course on this, but to

45:24

help your children to be more

45:26

in your presence, to even if

45:28

you're playing the video game with

45:31

them, that's better than they're playing

45:33

on their own. and create connection

45:35

because children need

45:38

real life in-person

45:40

connection. Very good.

45:42

Thank you so

45:44

much. Dr. Sheffield.

45:46

Thank you for

45:48

having me. It's lovely

45:51

to meet you. I'm

45:53

happy for your conversation.

45:56

Thank you very much.

45:58

Thank you. to when

46:01

the next conference is announced.

46:03

is announced. Thanks for listening to Point

46:05

a Relation with Thomas Hooble.

46:07

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46:09

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46:17

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