5:03

You. All right. Welcome to

5:07

Prep and Press. We got a USPSA.

5:11

Multigun nationals team here. Match director adam Maxwell.

5:14

Adam, thanks for being here, buddy. Thanks for having me. Great to be

5:18

on the show for the first time. Yeah. Exciting. Last time

5:22

you were on, it was a different thing altogether.

5:24

And Assistant Match Director for USPSA.

5:28

Multigun nationals. Kevin Harrington. Kevin, welcome to the show, man.

5:32

Great to be here, man. And Adam's comment just

5:35

made me realize that I will never be on the three gun show.

5:42

The end of an era. Oh, no.

5:46

That much. But there's only one first, and it's you.

5:50

Good point. Anyway, guys, thanks for thanks for being here. We got a couple of great topics

5:58

to talk about tonight. But first, I thought we'd kick it off with

6:03

a little bit of talk about the upcoming match,

6:07

USPSA multigun Nationals. I know you guys are working hard on it and

6:11

wanted to get an update on where we're at,

6:14

maybe what the division counts, looking like, things like that,

6:18

and see what else is going on. So what's going on in

6:21

the multi gun Natch prep world? Well,

6:25

man, we have better counts. What's that?

6:28

You probably have better counts on sign up right now. Yeah.

6:32

As of right this moment, we have about 140

6:36

people signed up. Open is currently the

6:40

biggest division with 49 participants.

6:44

My personal favorite race that I've been watching that no one else can

6:47

watch, but I've been watching the battle between Modified

6:51

and Tactical. It goes back and forth by the day as to which

6:54

has more participation. Currently, Modified has

6:58

36 participants and Tactical has 39.

7:02

And then we are one shooter away from recognizing

7:06

Limited, which I think will be Aaron Hayes when he

7:10

signs up. Aaron out there.

7:13

And then we got our obligatory couple of people in

7:17

Heavy who are going to probably want to move somewhere

7:21

else. But yeah, we got about 140 people,

7:24

which is already more than the match had last year

7:28

in previous years. So we're sitting in good shape. More entries been rolling

7:32

in every day. There's a lot of usual suspects

7:36

that haven't signed up yet that I expect to any

7:40

day. The AMU is actually surprised they weren't signed up

7:43

yet, but I was like, well, none of you are winning a national championship this

7:46

year if you sign up pretty soon.

7:49

And they're like, what? So there's a few of those types

7:52

of people that especially industry people who know they're coming,

7:56

but they always roll in at the last minute here. But we've seen steady increase.

8:01

We've been trickling people in pretty steadily here

8:04

the last few weeks, and I think we'll continue to up to the match.

8:09

We'll see how that goes. But yeah, excited. We have a strong turnout

8:13

so far. I was actually on the ground. Work had

8:17

me up that direction, so I did drop in at

8:20

the range and talk to management

8:24

there. And Joel who's the shotgun

8:27

sports director at Forest Lake Sportsman's Club.

8:31

He just went to sporting clays trap setting school in

8:36

New York or something. That's a thing. And he was really excited about it.

8:40

We were out there and we were, shall we say,

8:45

shot shopping on what the shotgun

8:49

only stages are going to have for thrown birds.

8:53

And so he's got some real nice.

8:56

Stuff set up for you guys. My goal with those was because typically,

9:06

especially upper Midwest, we're pretty well known for some hot shotgun,

9:10

heavy stages, some high round count jungle runs.

9:13

And this year we have two all

9:16

shotgun only stages, but they're speed shoots instead.

9:21

So these two stages that we're talking about

9:24

here, essentially, they're going to have two thrown birds.

9:29

And I wanted them to be it's a

9:32

legit wing shooting shot, but it's not super

9:36

hard because it has to float there in time because there's a bunch of static

9:39

stuff for you to shoot, too. So they're going to be very much

9:45

trying to get as many things done as possible while

9:49

the birds are in the area and still get them. So we have two

9:53

kind of springing teal shots for those who shoot sporting plays,

9:57

and then for those of us. That don't, what is that springing

10:01

teal. Is like it

10:08

starts far away from you and then comes in oh,

10:11

ambush. I like to call it. Ambush. Yeah, kind of a

10:14

crossing aerial salt. A teal

10:18

is a puddle duck in the upper Midwest. So it's kind of meant

10:22

to be a duck hunting shot. Got you.

10:24

Usually any sporting place course in upper Midwest they'll have some kind of teal

10:29

shot. And then of course, there's going to be a rabbit also,

10:33

so a rabbit and rabbits. Yeah, like a setting mallard

10:37

shot, too. And then there's going to be about six to eight

10:41

of those pipes that we're known for static pipes.

10:44

So for anyone shooting the

10:47

tactical divisions, you're going to have nine shells for

10:51

eight shots. Make it happen. Oh,

10:54

man. So I have pipe

10:57

story to tell you when we get to your topic, Adam, so remind me

11:01

on that one if I forget. But FYI,

11:06

for all the people going to shoot multigun nats, some of those pipes are freaking

11:10

heavy. So you might want to choke up a little bit if you only have

11:13

nine shots for eight targets.

11:18

I've read a lot of psychology books

11:21

here in the recent and if you use the phrase I

11:25

see should be good, right? That's your subconscious

11:29

telling you that you should probably choke up.

11:33

If that phrase comes out of your mouth, you know

11:36

what the answer is. I love

11:40

it. That's a very common phrase you hear on stages.

11:44

How many times have I asked you that, Kevin?

11:47

What's that? I was asking Kevin. How many times have I asked you that

11:50

at Lake JKM or something? Like you think I see is good here?

11:54

Probably every stage yeah, probably every stage of Memorial last

11:58

fall, too. Yeah, that's true. We kept going back and forth because of the way

12:01

that we shot those stages as staff, too. Is like, there's a

12:05

far piece of seal on this one. Should we do maybe a

12:08

mod? Yeah, at least. And then the next one,

12:11

diffusion, maybe not. Yeah, I don't remember what stage it was,

12:15

but do you remember when I kept my mod choke

12:19

in for an IC stage and then went

12:22

to replace it to put the mod in and put the IC back in?

12:25

Did I tell anyone or I keep that to myself? You're like,

12:28

sitting in your truck and then you walked back towards the Preload Table, and then

12:31

you walked back and you were, like, doing this lake head scratch. And I was

12:34

like, Dave, you okay? He's like, I swear I changed my Troke.

12:37

But now then now I'm going back.

12:41

Yes. You end up, like, swapping on

12:45

slicks and street tires and slicks.

12:48

Wait, which tires do I have on again? Yeah, it was kind of messed up.

12:51

It was a little bit of a pandemonium there, but it worked

12:55

out. Yeah, no good. And that's

12:58

the thing, right? People pick on the shotgun shots, but we're

13:02

looking for interesting shots with all three of the guns, right? We want

13:05

to fully test all three. And on the shotgun

13:09

stuff, I don't think any of them are going to be hard,

13:13

but they're going to test the full spectrum of the

13:17

skill set. So wing shooting is what shotguns

13:21

are for. So we like to do some legit wing shooting shots.

13:24

So you're not going to be able to just phone in the shotgun.

13:28

But I don't think that there's anything out there that's going to be particularly

13:31

hard. And then the same thing with the pistol because it's a

13:35

multi gun match. Are we not going to shoot legitimate pistol? We got Tango Timmy

13:38

laying down on all pistol stage that is probably

13:42

going to really test you there. And then

13:46

we have all rifle stage that Kevin's doing over

13:50

at Gate one. That's going to be a full test of the

13:53

rifle, too. And that's somewhat

13:57

of where, when we bring a match under Sanctioning, like USPSA

14:02

outlaw matches, we can do wild and crazy stuff, right? Because they're one off

14:06

matches. They don't really have to answer to anybody as long as it's safe.

14:09

But under USPSA,

14:13

all our stages have to get approved. And this is our

14:16

first year being stewards of this match. So we didn't really want

14:20

anything that would cause too much drama with NROI.

14:24

But also, we're here to crown a champion,

14:29

not to see who didn't get tricked

14:33

or one way or the other. On skill

14:36

sets, you shouldn't be really strong on

14:40

one gun, and that's why you won the match. To be a multigun

14:44

nationals champion, you have to be a master of three

14:48

platforms in a given division. So that's really our goal with

14:51

the stage design and all that stuff. Fun and interesting stages,

14:55

challenging stages from a competition standpoint,

14:59

but nothing particularly tricky or got you in the

15:02

terms of some of what we would remember. Like Dave from when we started shooting.

15:06

Back in the day, when you would. Travel to a blue ridge or something

15:09

like that. And the targets are painted weird colors, or they're

15:13

hidden from view. Nothing like that.

15:16

It's going to be pretty straight up. And then going

15:20

into the last day, we have four smaller stages

15:24

that are still worth 100 points. So you got to stand and deliver

15:27

on the last day, and it's going to come right down to the wire on

15:31

who's got their head in the game and executes at a

15:34

championship level. I love it.

15:37

I like the idea of,

15:42

I don't know, I've shot a lot of matches

15:45

where things were dragged out, and it doesn't seem like a whole lot

15:48

of thought was put into it. And when you

15:52

have the type of platform and

15:55

the type of stage that is USPSA

15:59

multigun nationals, lake, you're declaring a multi gun national champion

16:03

seems like a lot of pressure. Not to

16:07

put too much pressure on you guys here, but it seems like a lot of

16:09

pressure to actually test all the guns. So it's cool that you guys

16:13

are thinking about that and actually putting it out

16:16

there for the shooters. Well, nothing was

16:20

whipped out. I mean, Kevin got together a whole brain

16:23

trust full of guys to design stages. And when were

16:27

we having those meetings, Kevin? It was like January or February.

16:30

We started in December, and we had everything done

16:34

by when was I at your house in Wisconsin? That was middle

16:37

of February. Everything was done and submitted to USPSA,

16:41

and Troy was already reviewed it all from

16:46

people that haven't heard this yet. I guess there's plenty of people that may not

16:48

have heard anywhere else that for a national level match in

16:52

USPSA, stages have to be submitted six months ahead of time.

16:55

So Adam and I already talked about it and saying,

16:59

hey, we need to start getting stuff drawn up and talked about and

17:02

divided so we know that we're keeping each round

17:06

count for each of the three guns at a normal pace.

17:09

We were having that back at Memorial last year, which was

17:13

October. So, like Adam said,

17:16

anybody that's shot Trigun up here at Forest Lake

17:20

before or JKM with us. Dave, you're aware in

17:23

the last couple of years I've been the staff coordinator and stage coordinator

17:28

for JKM, and so we kind of did the same thing,

17:31

except we decided, hey, we need to do ten or more

17:34

stages now instead of just five. So I'm

17:38

only responsible for coming up with the actual design

17:42

of a couple of stages. And then we got other guys that have helped me

17:44

over the last couple of years with JKM and stuff to come in too to

17:47

make sure that we're keeping a flavor mixed up.

17:50

And then Adam and I basically were making sure that we kept round count normal

17:55

and that we still were following all of USPSA's rules. So we had

17:58

to take a couple of little things and say, hey, not for this match.

18:02

So you can come here to Forest Lake for this match

18:05

and expect the quality that we've had for JKM and Trigon over the last

18:09

couple of years and not have any super

18:13

gamey or circusy stuff thrown in there. This is

18:16

going to be a shooter's test, not can you

18:20

decide to memorize a pattern and shoot the right colors

18:23

or anything like that either. So I think we've kind of

18:26

found a great balance there that Adam and I are going to be putting together

18:29

twelve stages here in Forest Lake and test everybody

18:34

and still have a great fun match and enjoy the squad you're shooting with.

18:38

That's really what Adam and I have been about since the beginning is making

18:42

sure everybody's smiling at the end of the weekend and had a great time.

18:45

Yeah, everybody enjoys themselves. That's crazy. Yeah, right? No,

18:48

it sounds really cool. So real quick I brought up

18:52

a visual. So for those that have not been to

18:56

Forest Lake and have not shot a match, there kind

19:00

of did the aerial. Just this Google Maps here

19:03

want to show the different areas and let's see where we at.

19:07

Over here is where the long range is. So let's start here.

19:11

Kevin, this is where the long range stage is going to be. Right.

19:14

Good place to start. Yeah, that's what they call gate one. And it

19:18

enters in off the road kind of by his cursor right there and there's a

19:21

little parking lot and then you can see obviously at the top of the screen

19:24

is the 400 yard bay. So we'll be utilizing that and

19:28

the 100 yard bay right next to it for our first

19:32

stage of the match. I'm pretty sure the way to lay out is that'll be

19:34

stage one and just make it flow all the way to the other end of

19:36

the property. There'll be two stages there.

19:39

We'll utilize that whole area and we'll

19:43

have some fun with it. You'll use a rifle only stage and then a three

19:47

gun stage right next to it. Nice. And then basically for anybody that hasn't

19:51

used the property before the road there is a

19:55

city road and you'll get back on that road and go over to where the

19:58

red cursor is and that's gate two. So that is

20:01

the main part of the Forest Lake Sportsman's Club. That's where the

20:05

big clubhouse is and the big parking lot and RV parking and tons

20:08

of stuff and all their trapping, skeet fields.

20:12

So this is the clubhouse, this is the maintenance

20:16

house with all the equipment in it. And then over here is RV parking.

20:20

And I believe Mass Director camping will be

20:24

right there by your cursor there. Over here?

20:27

Yes. Nice. And then are

20:32

we using this bay up here too? Yes, that's stage three.

20:36

So this is kind of fun. You have to go out into the shotgun

20:40

impact area and there's another stage over here. Yes.

20:43

We're not using the big sandy area that you can see there, the big

20:47

blonde spot that's actually really deep, really soft beach

20:51

sand. The bay next to it is what is

20:54

locally called the grass bay. And that's going to be stage three right

20:58

in there. Yes. The sand bay I'm sure

21:01

you remember Dave, is where you get sandburs in your ankles and

21:05

shoots. So we're going to try and avoid it just because it's inconsistent.

21:09

Soft sand. And then Adam is

21:14

going to be using the area in the woods here I believe down

21:18

to the right where the trail is between gate two and three

21:21

Dave. Yeah. Right through here with some

21:25

of the aerials we'll utilize that sporting clay area. There's a full trail

21:28

that runs all along through those trees and up north

21:32

on that other part too. Oh yeah. Up here, right?

21:35

Yeah. So this

21:39

is kind of interesting. So there's like a path that goes in through here to

21:42

the practical shooting bays and there are what

21:46

like five stand or are those sporting clays there's? Sporting clays,

21:50

okay. Yeah. This is all and then all that in there swamp. And there's

21:53

a sporting clay that goes all around the outside of it and. That goes up

21:56

in here as well. Is that right? Okay.

22:00

So right where your cursor is now, that's going to be stage

22:07

twelve. Okay. And then in the woods there,

22:10

right around the corner of that trail,

22:14

that three way junction, that's going to be stage eleven

22:18

around here. Yeah. So right here is going to be stage

22:22

twelve with the rabbit and a flyer. And then

22:27

if you scroll back towards the road or back towards

22:30

the shooting bays. Okay. Yeah.

22:34

Just in the woods there from that fork in the road there,

22:37

that's going to be stage eleven. Okay. Got it. And so

22:41

this is going to be all shotgun as well. Yes. And I

22:45

think Joel's got going to have it set up. There's a spot in there he's

22:49

going to try. And what do you call it?

22:52

Do you call it a belly shot? He's going to hook a

22:56

clay around a tree on its edge.

23:00

Dang, he did learn some stuff. Yeah.

23:04

Homeboy's got some skills. So this is the practical shooting area.

23:11

I guess it is notable that this not accessed through here.

23:15

Right. You do have to use the city road and this is what they is

23:19

this gate three, is that right? Yes. Gate three is right there where your.

23:22

And so here's where parking is. And I believe this is going to be parking

23:26

as well. Yes, that whole grass field will

23:29

be. Parking and this is like the what they call

23:33

the schoolhouse or something, right? We call it the classroom. Classroom. There you go.

23:36

That's where we host all of our USPSA classes

23:40

or Ro classes and all that. And then we store all of our paper

23:44

targets and paint and stuff in there, too. Got it. So this is like staff

23:47

shack sort of thing? Yes. Cool. We're basically utilizing every

23:53

single one of those bays you see right now. Also. Nice. So which do you

23:57

want to go? Left, right to Left County

24:01

is going. To be easiest to view. Right to left. Okay.

24:07

On the right, basically where your cursor is, that's technically called bay eight

24:11

and then nine and ten is that hidden? The 273

24:15

60 degree bay. That's all in Kilos. So we will be

24:19

utilizing that whole area for one stage. This whole

24:22

area right here, the 360 area is

24:26

one. And then the bay all the way on

24:29

the edge is another one. Okay, cool. All right. And then so that we've got

24:37

more bays over here. This is more equipment storage for

24:41

people that are wondering. Yes. The one you're cursor in right now

24:44

is our JKM shoot off bay. Oh, that's right.

24:47

Because that's always where we have the shoot off. Two little

24:51

half berms right there. Yes. So we'll have a stage there.

24:57

Most of the ones over here are going to be utilizing two or three guns

25:00

for every stage. So these are all going to be multigun stages here on these

25:03

bays. Well, caveat, except for I think

25:07

that first one there. Isn't that Timmy's big pistol stage? I think

25:11

the first one in that row. Or the third one. Actually, no,

25:14

it's the third one in the row because that's right next to Mapso's Conics.

25:17

So Tango is right there. That will be the big

25:23

stage. That Tango. Timmy finally gets to make an all pistol stage that's over 32

25:27

rounds. So he's pumped. Yeah, he's making I

25:36

told Timmy, hey, it's your chance to make a stage, dude. You want to do

25:39

it? And he's like, absolutely, I want to do a pistol stage if I

25:42

can. He's like, are you going to do one gun stage or they have to

25:44

be multigun. I was like, honestly, we want to test all platforms.

25:48

We are totally cool doing all shotgun stage and all pistol

25:51

stage and all rifle stage. He goes, I want the all pistol. I'm going

25:54

to do it. I was like, all right, Adam's got you on the list.

25:57

You're doing the stage. And when it came time, he was like, submitted a drawing

26:00

that was like 35 shots.

26:03

Yeah, go all out,

26:06

have fun, do whatever you want. You don't have to follow the short

26:09

course, medium course, long course anymore because it's not their pistol

26:13

rule set, it's the multigun rule set. And he's like his only question

26:16

was, do I have to stick to 32 rounds?

26:21

He said it'd be a thing. 38 rounds on it.

26:24

Yeah, he bumped it up to like 45, 46,

26:27

I think. But nice as we do in multigon.

26:32

He didn't want to go just crazy to be crazy. That's hilarious. He was like, all I care about is shooting my old pistol stage.

26:42

Get it, buddy. All right. Have a big barrel there, too. You can stick your

26:50

tank botini stickers on, have a

26:53

graffiti barrel. I'm not sure if Troy will see the humor in that or not,

26:56

but we don't care. That's okay as long as it's a barrel. We say

27:00

it's okay as long as it's not any

27:04

other range equipment or rented equipment.

27:08

All right, so then we have two more stages

27:12

here as well. Yes, there'll be

27:15

multiple stages there. And then the new Beta base

27:19

stage, isn't it? I was going to say, I think that one's

27:22

the Beta base stage. There will be one that's a Beta bay,

27:25

but we're not doing triple quadruple vortex

27:31

shootout type of movement stage. Right.

27:37

For Jeremy Moore when he likes to punish us. Yeah, that's in

27:40

the fall. All right. And so then

27:44

we've got these three I guess these are the do you guys call these the

27:47

new bays because they're pretty new. Yeah, a couple of years old.

27:50

They typically just call them the member bays because whenever there's like a weekend

27:54

match going on, weekend matches can't use those bays, so members always

27:57

have somewhere to shoot. Cool. But for multi

28:01

gun nationals, we're taking the whole range down. No members allowed unless we sign up

28:04

for the map. So, Adam, I believe you're

28:08

using one or two of those for your short courses.

28:12

I'm using two of them for short courses. So I think the first one in

28:15

that row there will probably be stage eight,

28:19

and then nine and ten will

28:23

be for Sunday morning. Those will be rifle pistol

28:26

stages and then the two all

28:30

shotgun stages that we already talked about.

28:34

Okay. So for Sunday, you've got 910 and

28:37

then eleven over here for okay.

28:44

Schedule, we've locked out to where everybody's

28:48

shooting stages one through eight. At some point,

28:51

Friday and Saturday, you're going to get all those done and then everybody

28:54

else at the same time that shooting on Sunday, everybody's shooting those

28:58

last four stages. So everybody will kind of know coming

29:01

into the last day where you're sitting out, you don't have to go, well,

29:04

he shot this stage and he shot this stage. We'll all kind of know everybody

29:07

shot one through eight, and now everybody has nine through twelve to go.

29:11

I love that. Yeah, it'll be that last lap for the checkered flag.

29:17

It'll be kind of fun. We'll have the scores every as we watching them.

29:22

I love that. That's a cool concept. I think

29:25

Vortex is going to let us use a multimedia display that we have

29:29

access to. So in theory, we should have quasi

29:34

live scoring, especially as

29:37

the super squads are shooting, because I made the super squad shoot

29:41

last so everybody could watch them. Nice.

29:49

We should be able to see it all come down

29:54

on the last day because it's

29:57

400 points and stand and deliver.

30:02

Yeah, and those courses, too. I mean, a lot of them are minimal reset,

30:05

too, because you're just kind of picking up a couple of pipes and then the

30:08

claythrower is just already preloaded. So it'll

30:11

be kind of nice for people to be able to watch that end happen with

30:15

all the quick little courses. Dare I say, like a touch of what you've

30:22

learned from JKM. Right. Like a spectacle on the

30:25

final day. What we've learned from everywhere.

30:30

I think this is a culmination of what Kevin and I have learned

30:33

from major matches over the last five

30:36

to ten years. Come down to what

30:40

we're doing here. Yeah, cool. I love it.

30:43

We used the van with the multimedia display once, and people

30:47

loved it, and then the next year they were like, Where is it? So we

30:50

were like, we should try and get access to that again.

30:54

And then we saved all of our crazy outlaw ideas for JKM in August.

30:58

So go sign up for that. Perfect.

31:02

Well, so both those matches have spots open,

31:07

so when are we talking about USPSA? Multigun nats, what are

31:11

the dates? Multigun Nationals

31:14

proper is July 20

31:18

to the 22nd, I believe. Got it.

31:21

And then for sign

31:25

up, sign USPSA on practice score as usual. Yes,

31:29

sign up some practice score. Early bird pricing

31:32

just ended last week, but registration still

31:35

open right up to the maps.

31:40

Cool. All right, gentlemen, anything else we

31:44

want to talk about on multi gun nets?

31:47

Yes. When I was there for my meeting,

31:51

the club let me know. They have a machine now

31:55

that will throw a thing called a flurry at

31:59

the five stand. So we're going to have a flurry side stage.

32:04

I believe it's going to be sponsored by Briley. Is that like that crazy pigeon

32:08

thing that they had a bunch of years ago? Kind of, yeah. But it's going

32:12

to be like a series of ten birds from all over,

32:17

and then somehow we're going to make a side stage out of it,

32:19

both for individuals and pairs,

32:24

and then it's going

32:27

to be dashed for cash. So we're going to do like, 50% payout on cash

32:31

purse for whoever does it. So it's going to be one

32:35

of those things, like $10 a run. Do it as many times as you want

32:39

on your off time, and that'll be

32:43

a cash pay outside stage. So you can either shoot up the last

32:47

of the shotgun ammo that you brought, or if you're really into that

32:50

kind of thing, like, maybe bring extra, bring some extra.

32:54

But we'll be able to use up some shotgun ammo at

32:58

the five stand range for sure on Sunday

33:03

and probably on Saturday as well. How is that going to work? Is that going

33:06

to be by Division, or is that just overall TBD?

33:12

Okay. Yeah. I feel like for a

33:15

partner, I would grab the first open guy I saw and be like, Yo,

33:18

bro, let's do this. Yeah, I think

33:22

we might do something like box gun and tube gun or something like that.

33:26

Maybe just box and tube. Not worry about splitting up between mod.

33:29

TAC limited. I love it. All right, so a couple of things. I wanted

33:38

to let people know about the match, too, if you're sitting on the

33:41

fence about it, too. Adam and I, not only have we been working on this

33:44

for, I don't know what seems like already a year at this point,

33:48

we've done everything we can to use our contacts and

33:52

our people we shoot with regularly to make sure that we're staffing this match.

33:56

And building this match, USPSA is obviously a big part

33:59

of it, and they're coming to help set up, and they'll be there. And Troy

34:04

and Jake and guys from USPSA are going to be here on the ground the

34:07

whole week, too. But we've pretty much got an entire

34:11

staff of multigunners from

34:14

Ros that Work Memorial, Three, Gun, Trigun,

34:18

JKM, and other major matches around the country. So I think

34:21

we've come up with a pretty awesome team to staff it so nobody has to

34:25

worry about some guy that they saw at a USPSA

34:28

match two years ago grumbling about a rule. Right? So we've already

34:32

put on one class to get some Ros trained up for the match, and we

34:35

have another one coming the weekend before the match, too,

34:39

to make sure that all these multi gunners are cool

34:42

with the USPSA rules and understand that rulebook entirely,

34:45

too. I think we've done a good job there.

34:49

It's definitely been a concern in the past.

34:53

It's cool to see you guys have. Taken things that people ask me about.

34:56

I'm sorry. Say it again. So that's one of two things that. People ask me

35:00

about. Yeah. Who's staffing it? Who's staffing it,

35:04

blah, blah, blah, ros and this that I

35:07

don't want to throw too much shade at people who have worked in the past,

35:10

because there's lots of good people who helped the match other years,

35:13

too. But yes, when people ask, when people

35:16

reach out to help.

35:21

When I was approached to be match director first, I made sure

35:24

that Kevin was on board with helping me because I won't do an event at

35:27

Force Lake without him. And all the

35:31

people at Hawkeye Ignite, he's got a posse of people that

35:34

help us do all this stuff. I just get pushed forward

35:38

to do some of the talking a lot. And then I

35:42

said, I want to use our people. So if you want us to make

35:46

an event in the in the flavor of what we

35:50

traditionally do, you got to let us use the people we want to use.

35:53

And so for the most part, we. Essentially feel we

35:57

and also I

36:01

think the sport has burned out a lot of good volunteers

36:04

over the years and so that's really made me sensitive to

36:08

if someone's going to volunteer their time,

36:12

I feel like as promoters it's our job to make

36:16

sure that that person has something worthy of their time to

36:19

do. It used to be like anybody who wants to help just come on

36:22

in, come on in. We have five Ros sitting on a stage.

36:26

But for people taking time off work and staying

36:30

in hotels or driving back and forth from their house, whatever they're doing,

36:34

if you're giving up a summer weekend to help facilitate

36:37

someone else's fun, I want to make sure that we have something for you to

36:41

do. So we established a roster of slots

36:46

who do we need? A prime example.

36:49

We need a CRO on every stage, we need an Ro on every stage.

36:55

We need construction people, we need scoring people, we need

36:58

this, we need that. What is that list? But it's a concise list.

37:02

We then populated that list with people known local people

37:06

that we want to use to do it. And then we filled

37:09

in the other slots. And then once the slots were full,

37:12

we started saying thank you, but we have everyone

37:17

that we need. And if you are

37:20

an individual who has credentials, I mean,

37:24

things inevitably come up. I bet at least one or two of our people are

37:27

going to fall off the list. We might need some alternates,

37:30

but we're trying very hard to keep it to a concise

37:34

group of people and a concise group of people that we're used to using and

37:37

putting on events at this club, both from the trigon, the kirkwald,

37:43

and other known outlaw matches throughout the country

37:47

that have been known to put on good three gun events.

37:53

Cool. Another point to the same ideology that Adam

37:57

and I have had. We've been sitting here in the fall or last

38:01

fall. We were talking about one issue that a lot of people had was safety

38:05

tables and preload tables and how USPSA's rules

38:08

worked with all that because it's not the same as you walking into any

38:12

regular club match. You still need to follow USPSA's safety table

38:16

thing, right? So if you're going to go take your pistol out of a bag

38:19

and put it in your holster, it needs to be done at the safety table.

38:21

Okay? We still need to follow that rule. Adam and I are trying to do

38:25

everything we can to make sure that people are not just getting DQed for some

38:28

BS thing that they thought they were fine to do at their

38:32

truck. Right? So Admin and I are going to have clearly marked safety tables

38:36

like USPSA wants and then in order to get

38:39

rid of the gray area that people don't know what to do about for preloading,

38:44

because you can't preload at a safety table because you're not allowed to ammo.

38:46

Right. Adam actually came up with a solution of why don't we use the

38:49

crowd fencing we use for JKM to set up the barrier for everybody to

38:53

stand at and watch the shoot offs. So wherever possible,

38:56

we're going to have an actual fencing area of

39:00

park your cart right next to it. Go ahead and step

39:03

in. Preload your shotgun. Put it on the table. You're good.

39:08

Go grab your gun bag. Go put it on the safety table and

39:11

unbag your pistol and put it in your holster which is right next to the

39:14

safety table. So we're doing everything we can to make sure that it's going to

39:16

be really easy for people to figure out and not have some

39:20

guy standing there watching you going, are you going

39:24

to mess up so I can yell at you? That's not

39:27

the environment we're going for at all. We're going to make

39:31

every three gunner that would go to memorial three

39:34

gun or Texas three gun championship or anywhere in the country

39:38

and still come in and compete. And like Adam was saying,

39:41

too, come to this national level match where we're going to crown the

39:44

champion, right? Yeah.

39:49

I like that. Integration. And there is

39:52

a I mean, we obviously need safety, right.

39:55

But there is lake a level of things that

39:59

can kind of get out of control. And trust me, I worked in aerospace.

40:02

I understand there's some silly safety things that

40:06

are thought up in boardrooms, but. Safety wire on

40:09

every nut sometimes that's needed. But I

40:14

was really excited when I saw Jake Martin's

40:17

at Jeff Kirkwell memorial last year.

40:20

And when we're gearing up in our cars and everything,

40:24

he was looking around like, this is okay. And then at the end of

40:27

the weekend, I did have to make the comment like, hey, man, you didn't get

40:30

shot this weekend. Kind of weird with a bunch of multi gunners around.

40:36

Jake actually didn't just show up to come see who Adam and I

40:40

were and how we ran a match. Jake came and shot the match. Right.

40:43

I guess I left that part. He may have felt

40:46

a little uneasy not using a safety table for everything,

40:49

but he even made the comment after we were talking about it, like you just

40:53

said with that comment, he was like, you know, nobody was

40:57

like unsafe. I didn't think this was, oh, my gosh, I'm going to get shot.

41:00

He had a good weekend, too. Right. And that's a really important point that I want to make because

41:06

this is number two. Right. This is the second thing I get asked about a

41:09

lot. And we are not saying

41:13

that we're not enforcing the rules. That's not what we're

41:16

saying. The rules are there. We have to enforce them.

41:20

Troy is the range master. I tried tell the

41:24

dnroi that he can't be the range master of a. Championship,

41:27

but in the bylaws that Troy has to be the range master

41:31

at every national level match. Not that

41:34

Troy has to, but the Dnroi, the director has to be.

41:40

But it is my opinion that any

41:44

DQS that happen off the clock,

41:47

that's on us as officials,

41:51

so it is on us as event promoters to make

41:54

it intuitive and easy to follow the rules.

41:57

And I think where the traps were in the past was

42:01

there's a certain amount of equipment, logistics that

42:04

needs to happen. There's three guns that need to get ready.

42:08

How do we do all this and keep the show moving.

42:12

All right. And I think the human element of how that was executed

42:15

in the past is where the stigma comes from. And so

42:19

it's on us to make it easy and intuitive for you

42:23

to do the right thing. And that's what I

42:26

think we have improved on this year.

42:31

Good. All right. Well, sign up on practice score if you

42:34

haven't already and do it quick because you don't want to miss out.

42:39

All right, guys, for the books. There's going to be one

42:42

for the books. All right, guys, let's move on. So,

42:45

Kevin, you're a new guest on the show here, so we're going to give you

42:48

a first crack at the new topic. So I'll tee you

42:52

up here so you put down World Shoot team seating

42:56

and qualifications. So what's

43:00

your topic here? Yeah, I think for me it

43:04

was a lot of questions that I had because it turns out Last World

43:07

Shoot, I'm geographically located very close to Josh Fraleick.

43:11

Hang on. First off, there's four world shoots. So clarify which one

43:15

you're talking about. Last Shock and World Shoot. I'm so focused on Shocking

43:18

because that's what's coming up here in town. Sure. So the last Shocking

43:22

World Shoot was in France and I

43:27

got to kind of follow along with Josh's story because I shot with him a

43:30

lot locally and now it's turning out to be the same way. I've got a

43:34

couple of guys local to me that are going to be attending Shock and World

43:37

Shoot again and it raises

43:41

a lot of questions of how that works with USPSA's,

43:46

seeding of the teams and just who even

43:50

attends in general. I kind of want to just open it up to see what you guys know

43:58

and how that works and see where we kind

44:01

of go from there. So I have some thoughts on this one, too because

44:05

it's completely been a mystery for me and I'm

44:09

media in the shooting sports, right.

44:12

So I would think somehow I would accidentally know about this

44:17

associating with the people that I associate with,

44:21

but I didn't. And in fact,

44:26

me and Mike, you guys might know, is the chief

44:30

Meme officer at Prep and Press. So we made

44:34

some memes of like, how in

44:38

the heck do you know about Shotgun World

44:41

Shoot? And I put that in the three gun or excuse me,

44:45

I'm going to be doing that a lot for the next few years.

44:49

The Prep and Press newsletter that you can find at Prep and Press.

44:53

Anyway, so I put that in the newsletter and I

44:57

thought it was kind of fun. But I got a quick reply

45:03

from a guy who said, this is the process.

45:07

And I was like, oh, well, shit, that looks

45:10

like it was out there and I should have known about this.

45:14

How did I not know about this? So I'm not saying

45:17

that I was wrong because

45:21

I'm human and I can't admit when I was wrong, but there actually is a

45:26

process out there and I was just not aware of it at all.

45:30

And by the time people started making announcements that they were

45:33

going to shoot, going to the shotgun World Shoot,

45:37

the time periods that are in this memo had passed. So I have no

45:40

idea how this is distributed.

45:46

I tried to read the USPSA emails that

45:49

come out, because they do come out frequently, but I

45:52

will admit that I don't read 100% of those because a lot of times they

45:56

have a lot of information in there. I'm not sure, but there's

45:59

this whole allocation process and this is three

46:02

pages long, covers a lot of stuff. But the most interesting part of

46:06

this says due to the absence of a preexisting published

46:10

performance based qualifying process, which they have in

46:13

Pistol right, and the compressed selection

46:17

time schedule to provide members at least six months prior to the match

46:21

for international match travel requirements, which makes ton of

46:24

sense. The Regional Director and World Shoot Committee,

46:28

which I don't know what the World Shoot Committee is in consultation

46:32

with division category team competitors from the 2019

46:36

Shot and World Shoot, which those people should be the subject matter

46:40

experts. Right. Because they went in 2019,

46:43

we'll identify and select division then category teams

46:47

that will competitively represent USPSA. Now,

46:50

that said, from an

46:54

outsider perspective, you could see like, oh, you could call that oh, that's the

46:58

good old boy club. Right? Right. It almost says there

47:01

if you if you know somebody who was on the last team, they might elect

47:05

you to be a part of the team. Sure. But if you look at I

47:08

agree. And that's what I saw at first clients as well. And I started thinking

47:12

about it more. And when you think about who was

47:15

on that team freylic was not on the team, but he won,

47:19

right? Yes. Scott Green

47:22

was on the team, I believe. Yes. I don't know.

47:26

There's a couple of teams, but they're

47:30

competent shooters that were on that team. Now,

47:35

the 2019 World Shoot,

47:38

josh didn't get on it. Right. And so there's kind of like

47:43

I could see how you'd go to the people that were on the team,

47:47

but then are they going to want to give up their spot and then I

47:51

don't know. I don't know how it's exactly done if just everyone that was

47:55

on the 2019 team says, yeah, I want

47:58

to go. And then the selection process,

48:02

or if they are each like,

48:05

hey, who would you put on the team? And then those are drawn

48:09

together. I have no idea how that works, but I could see how it could

48:11

be seen both ways as well. I actually know more about this than I pretend

48:15

to. Couple things. One, going back to the 2019

48:25

team and using the frailick example, I'm hazy

48:28

on the details, but there was a

48:32

selection process like this, and the people

48:35

who are on the team checked more of the boxes than

48:39

Josh did, even though Josh

48:42

was clearly one of the better talented

48:46

people and should have been on the team. Let me interject real quick.

48:50

Go ahead. Some of those boxes, and I only know this from

48:54

I had Josh and Scott on

48:58

the show after the World Shoot, and there's a recap. So go back it's at

49:01

preppingpress.com. Just type in Josh or Scott or both, and you'll find

49:05

it there. But then you can listen to the whole I'm sorry. That was

49:09

one of my favorite episodes of the show. It was a great show. It was

49:12

a great show. It was awesome. Magic. But anyway, so go

49:15

back and listen to that. And that's where this information comes from. But I do

49:19

believe that the people that were on the team

49:22

that you said check more boxes than Josh,

49:27

in my opinion at the time, I remember feeling this. Some of those boxes were

49:31

kind of irrelevant and kind of crapttacular.

49:34

So I felt like I had to say that because I didn't think you would.

49:38

Number three thing that people bring up about my match well,

49:42

not my match, but the match we're responsible for.

49:47

Do I have to be a member of USPSA to shoot it? Yeah.

49:51

Yes, of course. Championship. And then a lot of folks are like, what do

49:58

I get out of joining? Why would I join this organ? Because it's kind of

50:01

outside of what we do on three gun side. Why we're not lost sport.

50:05

Why do we have to join an organization? Well, guess what? You can't race Supercross

50:10

without a pro license, all right? You can't race

50:13

NASCAR without a license. You can't

50:17

be on the PGA without being a member of the

50:20

PGA, all right? And I'm not going to name them,

50:27

but people who make that criticism listen to this show.

50:30

They're the first one to complain about this. They want

50:33

to go to World Shoot, but they don't want to be a member of

50:37

the organization. It's Lake. So if

50:40

this is important to you, here's a reason to

50:44

be a member of a sanctioning body of our sport, because they're

50:47

the ones that pick and have to decide who goes.

50:51

And the other thing that people

50:55

in USPSA will say, employees and board members,

51:00

they're open to the part about the

51:04

lack of how is it worded in here,

51:07

Dave. Lack of shooting time.

51:11

Yeah. Event I'm sorry.

51:15

Absence of preexisting published performance based qualifying process.

51:20

Right. The translation of that is there's no clubs putting

51:23

on Ipsic shotgun events under

51:27

the USPSA banner. There's nobody doing rifle

51:31

only under the USPSA banner currently. That's not USPSA

51:36

not letting it happen. They would believe me. They'll sign off

51:39

on anybody who wants to and meets the specifications and goes

51:42

through the process. But no club is currently choosing to participate

51:46

in that part of the framework, so they don't have anything to draw

51:50

any scores from. Yeah,

51:53

it's chicken or the egg here. Right? Right. And so one

51:57

of the things, like, when we set out to this year, I wanted to do

52:00

an area five two gun match. One of the

52:04

reasons I wanted to do that was here

52:08

is a match that would accrue some scores that might be relevant

52:12

towards picking a World Rifle Shoot team for next

52:16

year. All right. The other part of this before I get off my soapbox here is

52:23

I actually shot Western State single stack championship this

52:26

winter, and I was squatted with Yemen.

52:32

I was talking with him about this. Lake why

52:35

wouldn't we use multigun nationals and area five two gun

52:38

as qualifying scores towards Rifle World Shoot?

52:42

Because really, when I was talking to him, we were so far up against

52:46

this deadline that they were kind of under the gun. And I

52:49

think that's some of other stuff that's going on

52:53

in the organization, it's just not a priority to them. So all

52:56

of a sudden, it just reached critical mass and they had to decide.

53:00

But looking at for World Shoot lake let's use some of these scores from

53:04

these other events, and they're totally down with that.

53:08

Just like, find us clubs that want to hold

53:12

these events and fill out Form C and get the stages

53:15

approved, and boom, they're in. Well, I think

53:19

sorry to interrupt, Adam, but so this is on, like a three year cycle,

53:23

right? Is that right? And then it was messed up because of COVID

53:27

or whatever. So we as

53:31

and this is the queen's week. I'm not going to do it,

53:34

but we as a sport need to think much farther

53:39

ahead. And the way we

53:42

as humans think is, oh, shock. And World shoot is this

53:45

year 23. I'm going to sign up and I'm going to start training.

53:49

It's like, no, we should have had those qualifier matches

53:52

in 20 and 21 and 22. I guess we

53:56

wouldn't have planned them in 22 because of the shotgun world. She was supposed to

53:58

be 22, but it needs to be much, much farther out

54:02

than right in front of our nose. And I'm guilty of that in a lot

54:06

of things in life, too. So I'm not throwing any shade or stones

54:09

at people or anything, but just bringing it to the awareness of

54:12

the community. Lake if we do want to think about

54:16

Rifle World Shoot. We need to start doing those carbine matches stat,

54:21

because it's coming up like. This summer

54:25

carbine matches. Essentially. I think for the

54:29

dates to work, you would actually think the carbine matches would

54:32

have to be early next year. But in the way that running these

54:36

events works, we're already stepping off on the 2023 shooting season.

54:41

All right, so the conversations right now, while everyone's excited about

54:44

Shotgun events, we need to get excited about Rifle events

54:48

for next spring. Locking down clubs

54:52

and dates that want to do them and rallying behind that

54:56

to get if we want a qualified selection process

55:00

for Rifle World shoot, that needs to be talked about now so

55:05

that event promoters can announce dates late this fall

55:09

to hold events in the spring. Yeah,

55:13

instead of doing that, we're currently debating whether we should join USPSA

55:16

or not. That's how off base we

55:20

are on all this stuff. Two thoughts real

55:23

quick. One, there's been a lot of people that have reached out to me,

55:27

of course, with the Shock and World Shoot thing.

55:30

Kevin, I'm glad you wanted to make this your topic because this is a great

55:33

discussion and also gives me a chance to plug the Prep and Press newsletter where

55:37

you hear about it first. Prep and press. But so

55:45

many people have reached out to me on that. I want to say two dozen, but it's probably more like 20.

55:51

But that's a shitload of people that reached out to me as an individual for

55:55

this specific thing. So that said, there's been

55:59

half that many that have reached out to me like, well, how do you get

56:01

on the Rifle World Shoot? So there's

56:05

interest and there's interest in people shooting those matches.

56:08

And if you

56:11

want to shoot, you got to convince other people to support

56:16

that as well. Get together with the

56:20

other people that want to shoot and try to get a match put on somewhere.

56:24

And then do what Amax and Kevin are doing here,

56:28

is support it. Put your money where your mouth is, help with stuff,

56:31

design stages, carry steel, and go out

56:35

and promote it like we're doing right now. So it needs to be a community

56:38

thing. You can't just say, like, oh,

56:42

Jeff Johnson over there is going to be putting on a carbine match

56:45

and never say a word about it. You need

56:48

to support that. You need to tell everyone you know. You need to get your

56:51

five buddies from your club match to go shoot it with you.

56:54

All right, I'm get off my soapbox. Right?

56:57

I think we're probably coming up against the time that you want to spend on

57:00

this topic. But also, I'll say some people came up to me in Texas wanting

57:05

to know ins and outs of what's going on with the YML drama

57:09

that's going on in USPSA.

57:14

I know all those words. I don't know them together. What is YML drama.

57:18

That's YML's initials.

57:22

Sorry Kevin stepped on you. Can you say that again, please? That's Yemen lee.

57:27

Oh, the president right name is hard. For Americans to

57:30

say. My bad. Yeah. So people

57:34

are concerned with the presidential stuff that's going on in the

57:37

organization right now, what that means for World Shoot. And since

57:40

I'm connected to some of the people administratively

57:44

in USPSA, I volunteered to be lake

57:48

the communicator back and forth between them. And I'll do that in

57:52

this form here, too. Most of the leadership in USPSA is very concerned

57:56

about the pistol sports and the board of directors stuff that's going

58:00

on. So if you have questions about this stuff or

58:03

you're trying to communicate to somebody the official channel, you should reach

58:07

out to Dnroi@uspsa.org.

58:11

But if you want a point of contact

58:14

on the multigun stuff, I am happy to

58:18

go back and forth with any concerns or any questions you

58:21

have on the multigun side of stuff as we're trying to

58:25

get it moving in a positive direction. I told

58:28

them that I'm willing to do that and out to the community. I'm willing

58:32

to be the go between USPSA and this kind of stuff

58:36

to figure out how we can have a

58:39

series of area matches that culminate in a national championship.

58:43

Lake what we're laying the groundwork for here this year, how do

58:47

we have quantified results

58:51

that end in a selection

58:55

of a World Shoot Team that somebody that was decided by shooting.

58:59

How do we do that? And then how do we bring the

59:04

multigun sports under a rule set together

59:07

so that when you're playing this game, it's a game that you recognize everywhere

59:11

you go. I'm interested in all three of those things

59:15

so that we have a sport to continue to play 20, 30, 40 years into

59:18

the future, and I don't see a whole lot of people

59:22

interested in doing that kind of thing, so I'm willing to do it.

59:26

So when you have questions about this kind of stuff, if you need to get

59:29

to somebody in the organization with a legit question,

59:33

I'm findable out in the world, find me, and I'll

59:37

either find the answer or I'll get you in touch with the people who can.

59:40

And I guess I'd also say if you are interested in all those things

59:43

that a Max talked about and maybe not necessarily shooting a

59:47

World Shoot, but you're interested in some of those other things, definitely reach out as

59:50

well. Yeah, I mean, all those events qualifier

59:54

events, those guys got to get shoot against somebody. I don't necessarily

59:57

want to shoot the World Shoot, but I'll go try to beat the guys who

1:00:00

do. There's going to be practice matches this fall. I'm going. Yeah.

1:00:07

I mean, the AMU typically does not travel for

1:00:11

World Shoots for whatever reason. So you have to knock

1:00:15

off so you have to knock all those dudes down

1:00:18

on your way to the top. So there you go. Got to

1:00:22

get past White, L and Turner and all them dudes in

1:00:25

the world shoots. We want to make sure the people who.

1:00:31

All right, guys. So, Kev, what do you think, man? You're happy?

1:00:35

That's all. Great info. I kind of wanted to bring it

1:00:38

up just as the fact that us talking about it is going to make things

1:00:42

more accessible to other people and more aware,

1:00:45

obviously, this year, like you said.

1:00:50

We froze him. Oh, no, he died. I'll take over.

1:00:54

So I will say, though, that while it's good that we

1:00:57

discuss this and it's good that we have this little bit of information to

1:01:02

look at this sheet, I still don't know where it came from

1:01:05

or how you be the first one to find out.

1:01:09

I don't know where the train starts, but it's here in the middle.

1:01:13

So sorry, Kev, you froze there if you want to finish. Yeah, I don't know

1:01:16

what happened there. That was really weird picked.

1:01:19

And when he got pulled from

1:01:23

President, someone inherited his spreadsheet,

1:01:26

and those people are also trying to figure it out, but ultimately

1:01:30

it was they accepted applications and he looked through

1:01:34

them all. Yes, but when did those applications happen?

1:01:37

That's what I'm talking about. Where did this document come from?

1:01:41

It's dated march. Let's see, what is it dated?

1:01:47

222. It's dated 222 23. And the deadline

1:01:51

is like, March 25 or something like that. And I heard about it after

1:01:54

March 25. So that's what we're trying to figure out is, Lake,

1:01:58

if we can figure out how to get on the head of this

1:02:01

thing rather than tail end of this thing, that's what we want to know.

1:02:04

But I did see it. I did see it.

1:02:08

I think it came out the last week of February, but I'm going off of

1:02:11

memory. It was a short window. Where did it come out?

1:02:14

USPSA mailing list, email. I must have

1:02:18

missed it. I didn't apply,

1:02:21

but Ruben applied and he got on well. Next time, text me.

1:02:24

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