0:00

Whatever your quality of being is,

0:02

is what your creations will also

0:04

embody. So if you weren't giving,

0:06

burnt out, and you're giving, traumatized,

0:09

and you're giving, triggered all the

0:11

time, it's exactly what your creations

0:13

will look like. So, girl, not

0:15

you're dragging us like this. Yes,

0:17

let them know. Why? Creating a

0:20

life that is authentic, bold, and

0:22

purposeful takes audacity and truth-telling. It

0:24

takes disruption. That is what

0:26

it means to be a

0:28

professional troublemaker. professional troublemaker is

0:31

a best-selling book, this podcast,

0:33

and frankly, a life habit.

0:35

And I'm your host, Lovey

0:37

Ajay Jones. I'm here to bring

0:39

you perspectives, deep dives, and conversations

0:42

about culture, business, life, and leadership.

0:44

And welcome to season 5, which

0:46

I'm really excited about. This season

0:48

is dedicated to the glory

0:51

and great of entrepreneurship. 2023

0:53

was my toughest year as a business

0:55

owner. And there was a point where

0:57

I was three months away from being

0:59

bankrupt. So let's talk about it. Let's

1:02

get really real about running your own

1:04

business, the good, the bad, and the

1:06

ugly, because while people love to glorify

1:08

entrepreneurship, they often leave out the tough

1:11

lessons, the failures, and the pivots that

1:13

have to happen. My hope after this

1:15

series of episodes is that you

1:17

feel more informed about what it

1:19

truly takes to run a purpose-driven

1:21

business. You feel less alone about all

1:23

the times you messed up. as you

1:26

walk away knowing what to avoid so

1:28

you don't make some of the same

1:30

mistakes I've made. Let's get into it.

1:32

So I recorded this episode in October,

1:35

because I wanted to drop it on you

1:37

all as a great way to wrap up

1:39

this season even further. You know, I

1:41

talked about the rebuild episode, but this

1:43

episode I went to drop as

1:46

a continuation to maybe talk about

1:48

how you can ethically build... a business

1:50

that's not going to burn you out

1:53

and stress you out and make good

1:55

money while doing it. And then the

1:57

lesson happens and we find ourselves.

1:59

but the result that honestly feels

2:01

devastating. And I wavered on, should

2:03

I post this episode or not,

2:06

but not realize, no, no, no.

2:08

The reason why I wanted to

2:10

create this particular episode and even

2:12

talk about entrepreneurship, this season has

2:14

been about how do we get

2:16

free? And economics is a huge

2:18

part of that. The ways that

2:20

we're able to design and build

2:22

lives that are sustainable lives that

2:24

are sustainable lives that are sustainable

2:26

lives that are sustainable, And for

2:28

me entrepreneurship is another pal to

2:30

being able to create more financial

2:32

stability for me. Financial freedom for

2:34

me. So yeah, I decided to

2:36

still post this episode. Because now

2:38

more than ever, women especially, being

2:40

able to be financially free, is

2:42

in itself a form of revolution.

2:44

We needed to fight the battles.

2:46

Because if we can't figure out

2:48

where our next meal is coming

2:50

from. Ain't no battles to fight

2:52

besides survival. So yeah, I'm excited

2:54

to bring you this conversation that

2:56

I have with Chloe Hockey Moore,

2:58

a woman who has built for

3:00

National Freedom for herself and created

3:02

multiple eight-figure companies. So dig in

3:04

and check the show notes because

3:06

we have a lot in there

3:08

for you to click on, to

3:10

act on, and to move on.

3:12

That's jumping. Today I'm excited to

3:14

be joined. by Chloe Hakenmore. Y'all

3:16

know this season, I've been talking

3:18

about entrepreneurship being a dumpster fire,

3:20

my company crumbling last year, my

3:22

company crumbling this last year, and

3:24

the rebuild. So I have very

3:26

much been tuned into who knows

3:28

what they're talking about in this

3:30

space, because there's a lot of

3:32

noise in this season, with this

3:34

season where I've been very transparent.

3:36

I wanted to bring y'all a

3:38

bonus episode to talk to somebody

3:40

who has built multiple million companies

3:42

who knows her shit, okay, because

3:44

yes, now that I've told you

3:46

all the madness, let's talk about

3:49

what it actually takes to be

3:51

successful at building your own business,

3:53

generating wealth, while honoring purpose, right?

3:55

So Chloe, welcome to a professional

3:57

troublemaker. Yeah, thank you for having

3:59

me. This is literally a dream

4:01

come true. So I'm, I'm just

4:03

honored. trying not to fan-girl stay

4:05

focused, but I'm very excited to

4:07

be here. Glad to have you.

4:09

So I want my people to

4:11

recognize your bad ass ring, kind

4:13

of who you are. So let's

4:15

talk about, let's start with the

4:17

flexes. Chloe, tell me what you

4:19

have done that is truly a

4:21

flex in entrepreneurship or building your

4:23

own business. Yep. I recently have

4:25

been really proud of the fact

4:27

that I grew up my family

4:29

using food stamps and I made

4:31

it to Forbes 30 under 30

4:33

under 30. No trust fund, not

4:35

coming from wealth, none of that.

4:37

And it hasn't changed who I

4:39

am, but it is one of

4:41

those things that I'm very proud

4:43

of to know that you can

4:45

build from, I don't even say

4:47

I built from nothing because I

4:49

had a lot of cultural wealth,

4:51

a lot of familial warmth, like

4:53

I had so many of the

4:55

things you cannot buy, but we

4:57

did not have financial wealth. So

4:59

to go from like chronic food

5:01

stamp usage to Forbes 30 under

5:03

30, that to me is a

5:05

recent like. That is definitely flex.

5:07

Also the fact that you were

5:09

on Forbes. What year were you

5:11

on Forbes 30 under 30? 2020.

5:13

How old are you? Yeah, I'm

5:15

30. Girl, not me being the

5:17

elder stateswoman here. So how did

5:19

you end up on the Forbes

5:21

30 under 30 list? Yeah, so

5:23

I was doing work. I've trained

5:25

formally as an anthropologist and sociologist,

5:27

and it just so happens that

5:30

those skills lend themselves really well

5:32

to business. I'm born and raised

5:34

in Memphis, chose to be educated

5:36

and work in Memphis, and one

5:38

of the things. that I noticed

5:40

early on was the lack or

5:42

the huge gap between who understands

5:44

the city and who's making decisions

5:46

on its behalf. And so as

5:48

I started to get, I started

5:50

to work at a research firm,

5:52

they needed an anthropologist, I just

5:54

so happened to be an anthropologist

5:56

who was from Memphis, so the

5:58

only people on the team who

6:00

actually had lived experience in Memphis,

6:02

and then also had lived experiences

6:04

within the systems that we were

6:06

supposed to be, you know, reforming.

6:08

for the betterment of the community.

6:10

So I was doing a lot

6:12

of work with refugee and immigrant

6:14

populations around food entrepreneurship. I then

6:16

got switched teams to work on

6:18

a child care project because I

6:20

had a racist manager. And they

6:22

were like, we need you to

6:24

switch team, but we figure out

6:26

how to get her out. And

6:28

so I fell into early childhood

6:30

education on accident. But as I

6:32

was going through it, looking at

6:34

the systemic barriers in Memphis, looking

6:36

at how do you take the

6:38

expertise that so often overlooked, then

6:40

just grassroots expertise, how do you

6:42

bring that to the table and

6:44

fund it with real dollars, was

6:46

one of my specialties. And so

6:48

as a researcher, my role quickly

6:50

developed into, oh, she's actually leading

6:52

the project. She's building out the

6:54

work. And so I was on

6:56

a team that I was the

6:58

most junior salary, the most junior

7:00

degree person. I had people on

7:02

my team making literally three times

7:04

my salary, but they found out

7:06

quickly that I was the one

7:08

carrying the work. And so at

7:10

that time, I wasn't even upset.

7:13

Like I was fresh out of

7:15

college. I was like, look, I'm

7:17

just having to have a full-time

7:19

salary period. So I wasn't thinking

7:21

about the fact they made three

7:23

times more than I did, but

7:25

didn't know a third of what

7:27

I know. I just was thinking

7:29

of the fact that I could

7:31

be in meeting rooms, that traditionally

7:33

my community is not invited to,

7:35

and I could represent, I could

7:37

help make decisions a little less

7:39

shitty for our people. And so

7:41

I also had the... She lead

7:43

at that time, who was one

7:45

of the co-founders of the company,

7:47

decided to leave. I will spare

7:49

you all the messiness of that.

7:51

But in it, he said, I'm

7:53

also going to make sure before

7:55

I leave, I tell the funders,

7:57

you've been driving the project. So

7:59

if they choose to keep someone

8:01

on, it's going to be you.

8:03

And he kept his word. Yeah,

8:05

he told them he was like,

8:07

she's actually been the one doing

8:09

all these reports you've been liking

8:11

for me. It's actually, it's actually

8:13

her. It's actually her. It's actually

8:15

her work. It's actually her work.

8:17

It's actually her work. It's actually

8:19

her work. It's actually her work.

8:21

And so that is what got

8:23

me in connection with all of

8:25

these funders, with the people who

8:27

are in government offices or nonprofit

8:29

executives or private organizations like corporations

8:31

and things like that. That's what

8:33

got me interfacing with them and

8:35

allowed me to build two different

8:37

nonprofits that were both eight figures,

8:39

a piece and fully funded. So

8:41

both of those nonprofits were in

8:43

early care and education and looking

8:45

at how you transform systems to

8:47

be more effective. And so my

8:49

work in early care and education

8:51

is what got me on the

8:53

Forbes 30 under 30 list. As

8:56

somebody who had just ran a

8:58

nonprofit before, built one from scratch,

9:00

getting a nonprofit to eight figures

9:02

is some like super human. I

9:04

could not figure it out. And

9:06

nonprofits are the ultimate in trying

9:08

to build a business because that

9:10

business is technically owned by the

9:12

people. So that also. The fact

9:14

that you can make a non-profit

9:16

in that way profitable to that

9:18

level is wildly impressive. Thank you.

9:20

Let's talk about what are the

9:22

skills that you have that actually

9:24

led to that type of success?

9:26

Yeah, I think first and foremost

9:28

I have an insatiable curiosity and

9:30

I think I've worked really hard

9:32

to uncouple any tendency to judge

9:34

quickly. Because I definitely at some

9:36

point in my life would make

9:38

snap judgments of things and the

9:40

more that I've understood how dynamic

9:42

people's lives are and how even

9:44

stuff that doesn't look rational to

9:46

me is likely rational in someone

9:48

else's choice set that I don't

9:50

have access to. It's really been

9:52

a process of, yeah, decoupling my

9:54

curiosity and judgment. So because I

9:56

have been working on having this

9:58

openness, it's allowed me to be

10:00

in so many different environments, so

10:02

many different situations, and to just

10:04

be seeing like, okay, there are

10:06

things here that don't make sense

10:08

to this person. but it makes

10:10

sense to that person, but they

10:12

have shared things. So my ability

10:14

to find the commonalities within what

10:16

might look like they're supposed to

10:18

be opposing or might look like

10:20

they don't normally fit together, I

10:22

think is one of them. I

10:24

also think I just see in

10:26

systems, like I take I, and

10:28

I have my clients do this

10:30

too, but I, when I took

10:32

the Clifton strength's finder assessment, my

10:34

top two skills are strategy and

10:36

empathy and empathy. And I really

10:39

think that sums it sums it

10:41

up. Yeah, like my ability to

10:43

understand systems, but to care for

10:45

people, I think bringing those two

10:47

things together has allowed me to

10:49

really flourish in strategic roles. Let

10:51

me look up my Clifton strength

10:53

finders real quick. Ah, so my

10:55

top two when I took this

10:57

in 2020, I should probably retake

10:59

it, input and context, and the

11:01

number three is connectedness, four is

11:03

belief, and five is responsibility. context

11:05

is such a powerful one too.

11:07

Say more. Yeah I think it's

11:09

really difficult this day and age

11:11

to critically think and I do

11:13

not blame individuals for this. I

11:15

actually don't and I really mean

11:17

that I think on a just

11:19

like macro scale the way we

11:21

are being conditioned to taking information

11:23

so rapidly and keep moving on

11:25

it's not socially rewarded to pause

11:27

and think or to try to

11:29

weave threads together. It's very much

11:31

like our current structures rely and

11:33

thrive on reactivity. compulsion, like just

11:35

indecision even, all of which are

11:37

things that are not rooted. So

11:39

for context to be, and you're

11:41

a phenomenal storyteller, so of course

11:43

context makes sense, but for you

11:45

to be able to weave together

11:47

things in a way that is

11:49

sensical, I do think it's just

11:51

a really important skill. So throughout

11:53

this episode, I actually want to

11:55

drop different actions for y'all to

11:57

take. So the first one I'm

11:59

actually going to drop rapins we're

12:01

talking about it. I think you

12:03

should go take the Clifton strength

12:05

finders test. It is a test

12:07

that you take that gives you

12:09

34. It basically puts all these

12:11

different assets or attributes about you

12:13

and it organizes them, right? It

12:15

creates an order from one to

12:17

34. So like my last is

12:20

included. My number 34 is included.

12:22

So I am very much. Like

12:24

I want to do myself in

12:26

this way. because my last one

12:28

was a computer. But yes, so

12:30

number one thing, actually for y'all

12:32

to take, is go take the

12:34

Clifton strength finders test. And in

12:36

the show notes, we're going to

12:38

go links for you to use

12:40

to get to all these different

12:42

things that we're going to recommend.

12:44

If I could also say, just

12:46

really quickly, for as a cosign

12:48

of this, for anyone who struggles

12:50

to articulate their gifts, for anyone

12:52

who struggles to like talk themselves

12:54

up, let this be a tool

12:56

that helps you that helps you.

12:58

So you notice how I said,

13:00

I took the assessment and my

13:02

top two strengths are strategy and

13:04

empathy. It's an easy framework for

13:06

me to use to explain what

13:08

my skills are. So hopefully that's

13:10

helpful to you all listening as

13:12

well. Yes. Okay, so is there

13:14

another type of test like this

13:16

that you actually think people should

13:18

take? Yeah, I think the disk

13:20

assessment is really good for anyone

13:22

who leads a team. or anyone

13:24

who is on a project, even

13:26

if you're not the team leader,

13:28

if you are in a project

13:30

that involves multiple people, it is

13:32

very important to be conscious. of

13:34

people's responses when they are stressed

13:36

and when they're not. But I

13:38

think the disk assessment is really

13:40

good at helping you understand how

13:42

people are wired and how teams

13:44

can better function together. So what

13:46

does that one do different? Because

13:48

I've actually heard about disk. I

13:50

haven't taken it yet. It's more

13:52

leadership focused. So if Clifton Strength

13:54

is like. How would I describe

13:56

Lubby as an individual? The disc

13:58

assessment would be, what are Lubby's

14:00

tendencies when it comes to leadership?

14:03

And how does Lubby show up

14:05

interpersonally when you are in flow

14:07

versus when you are in stress?

14:09

Right? So it is very like

14:11

interpersonally focused, whereas Clifton's, you can't

14:13

extrapolate how you and another person

14:15

might work together. Like if both

14:17

of y'all's discipline is rock bottom.

14:19

you probably need somebody with great

14:21

discipline to balance y'all out, but

14:23

disc is more intentional with with

14:25

that. Yes, so I love taking

14:27

these assessments because part of for

14:29

me, like I'm all to your

14:31

point of curiosity, like I am

14:33

a forever student, I'm always trying

14:35

to learn more and one of

14:37

the things that saved me this

14:39

last year was that intense curiosity

14:41

as I revealed my company just

14:43

being open to what felt like

14:45

I needed to do next, like

14:47

taking a bunch of assessments, learning

14:49

who I am as a leader.

14:51

has been important to me, learning

14:53

where my energy is, has been

14:55

really important to me. So I

14:57

took another one called Working Genius.

14:59

Have you heard about Working Genius?

15:01

No, I haven't. Okay, so Working

15:03

Genius is an assessment that searches

15:05

for, yeah, what kind of builds

15:07

your energy at work? So my

15:09

working genius, and it breaks it

15:11

down into like, I think six

15:13

different things, like what are your

15:15

frustrations? Where's your energy and where's

15:17

your competency? Because the more that

15:19

we spend in our frustrations, the

15:21

harder work is. So the working

15:23

genius will tell you what areas

15:25

are your working genius. what areas

15:27

are your working competency and what

15:29

areas are your working frustration. So

15:31

for that one, it says I

15:33

am naturally, my working geniuses are

15:35

invention and tenacity. So I am

15:37

naturally gifted and derived energy from

15:39

creating original ideas. Yeah. I'm also

15:41

naturally gifted from pushing projects to

15:43

completion to ensure that desired results

15:46

are achieved. So for me, it

15:48

actually started explaining. some of last

15:50

year's frustrations, because my whole goal,

15:52

I come up with ideas and

15:54

I want to see them finished.

15:56

I don't want to deal with

15:58

the middle. I don't want to

16:00

be the one helping you come

16:02

up with the plan to get

16:04

us to the finish, but I

16:06

want to see us get to

16:08

finish. So it's my working competency

16:10

is galvanizing and enablement. So galvanizing,

16:12

I'm capable of, and I don't

16:14

mind, rallying people and inspiring them

16:16

to take actions around my ideas.

16:18

I don't mind providing others with

16:20

encouragement and assistance, but they're not

16:22

my genius. I just don't mind

16:24

doing it. Right. Now, frustrations is

16:26

discernment and wonder. So I am

16:28

not naturally gifted and don't find

16:30

energy in using my instincts to

16:32

evaluate those ideas. So once I

16:34

have the idea, you tell me

16:36

if it's good or not. I'm

16:38

not, I don't want to be

16:40

the one that's like analyzing whether

16:42

it's a good idea. I would

16:44

just tell you the idea. I

16:46

need somebody more elected back to

16:48

me. And then my other record,

16:50

working frustration is I don't have

16:52

fine energy or joy from pondering

16:54

the possibility of a greater potential.

16:56

I'm not the one that's like,

16:58

let's scale it and make it

17:00

this big, I come to you

17:02

with a big idea already. So

17:04

it actually taught me some of

17:06

last year's. losses and why I

17:08

faced them, because I was surrounded

17:10

by people who required me to

17:12

embody my working frustrations. Oh, right.

17:14

Yeah. Well, if you're listening to

17:16

this, y'all, and you were running

17:18

your own company, you have a

17:20

team, and you're having a tough

17:22

time, work ingenious is another assessment

17:24

I think you should take, just

17:27

to tell you kind of why

17:29

you're walking around piss. Because if

17:31

you are too much in your

17:33

frustration, you're going to be like,

17:35

I don't want to talk to

17:37

nobody. So. Yeah, no, so you're

17:39

very much giving me so you

17:41

seem to be like you thrive

17:43

best when you were in the

17:45

visionary CEO Yes, not an operator

17:47

CEO. Yes, and I've been operating

17:49

an operator CEO That makes sense.

17:51

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah Yeah,

17:53

so it's getting and you do

17:55

you self-describe as an artist as

17:57

well? Do I self-describe I would

17:59

not have probably ten years ago,

18:01

but I probably ten years ago,

18:03

but I probably ten years ago,

18:05

but I probably ten years ago,

18:07

but I probably ten years ago

18:09

but I probably ten years ago,

18:11

but I probably ten years ago,

18:13

but I probably ten years ago,

18:15

but I probably ten years ago,

18:17

but I probably ten years ago,

18:19

but I probably ten years ago,

18:21

but I probably ten years ago,

18:23

but I probably ten years ago,

18:25

but I probably ten years ago,

18:27

but I probably ten years ago,

18:29

but I probably ten years ago,

18:31

but I probably ten years ago,

18:33

but I probably ten years ago,

18:35

but I probably ten years ago,

18:37

but I, but I probably, but

18:39

I Well, I would. Yeah, that

18:41

makes sense. Yeah, I'm a pragmatic

18:43

artist though. For sure. For sure.

18:45

I think artists doesn't have to

18:47

be floaty. Right. I think sometimes

18:49

people hear artists and they think

18:51

not grounded, not practical. But I

18:53

think artists is someone whose creativity

18:55

is just very activated. And activated,

18:57

I don't mean reactive, it's just

18:59

on. Right. So you seem to

19:01

me like a very like artistic

19:03

person. I can confirm that part.

19:05

Like my creativity being actually is

19:07

absolutely valid. I still have an

19:10

idea. That's also one thing about

19:12

me as a leader that I'm

19:14

very cognizant of is that I

19:16

am a visionary, which can cause

19:18

my team to squirrel along with

19:20

me if I don't wrangle them

19:22

in. Right? So like... Yeah, especially

19:24

because you also present very confident.

19:26

So confident creativity. It's like, if

19:28

people aren't used to it, they

19:30

can get swept up. in your

19:32

ability to galvanize, if there's not

19:34

something to anchor the next procedural.

19:36

So I completely understand that. So

19:38

that actually has been a problem

19:40

of mine, and I have to

19:42

be... I have to know when

19:44

I'm scrolling. Because I have to

19:46

tell my team, listen, I'm just

19:48

throwing ideas at you, I'm not

19:50

saying we have to execute all

19:52

of these right now. So like,

19:54

I'm also having to constantly wrangle

19:56

folks to be like, don't get

19:58

swept up with me. You stay,

20:00

you keep your feet on the

20:02

ground as I'm floating with my

20:04

ideas. You tell me what's possible.

20:06

Because leave it up to me,

20:08

we're doing 15 projects at once.

20:10

Yeah, because I'm exciting all of

20:12

them. But I actually have to

20:14

switch that part of myself off

20:16

in leadership. where I've had to

20:18

be the one doing my own

20:20

discernment. That's been exhausting. I'm not

20:22

an operator. I don't want to

20:24

be, but I've had to be

20:26

an operating CEO. Yeah. And I

20:28

would offer, if you don't mind

20:30

me offering a strategic suggestion. Yeah.

20:32

Yeah, I think you need a

20:34

very, like, and I'll explain what

20:36

I mean when I say this,

20:38

you need a strong personality operator

20:40

to balance you. Yes. So you

20:42

need someone who's not afraid to

20:44

tell you no. Yes. And who

20:46

doesn't tell you no because they're

20:48

triggered, who tells you no because

20:50

they are calm and sturdy. And

20:53

that's different, right? There's some people

20:55

who show up strong and it's

20:57

because they are so rigid that

20:59

they cannot be flexible or they

21:01

cannot take an additional perspective. Right.

21:03

There are some people who can

21:05

give you a strong note and

21:07

it comes from a place of

21:09

like gentle strength, right? And I

21:11

think you need the gentle strength,

21:13

no, as your counterpart. because there

21:15

no will come with really good

21:17

understanding as to why. And you

21:19

know it's thoughtful. And there no

21:21

should be very human-centered. And like

21:23

thinking about people's workloads, people's capacity,

21:25

people's bandwidth, what the organization can

21:27

hold without being under direct. So

21:29

they need to give you thoughtful

21:31

strong nose. And I think you

21:33

would light up in it. You

21:35

would be able to flourish creatively

21:37

because you don't have to be...

21:39

having this meta processing at the

21:41

same time of, well, if I

21:43

get excited and creative out loud,

21:45

then my team might start to

21:47

jump. And I have to rate

21:49

it back because leader Lubby needs

21:51

to make sure people aren't just

21:53

getting swept in the current of

21:55

my creative power because they're hearing

21:57

confident an idea. Like you, I

21:59

think a counterpart, and I don't

22:01

mean a co-founder, I mean a

22:03

staff member, who didn't, yeah, be

22:05

that grounding balance. Okay, you know

22:07

what, you actually just gave me

22:09

the idea of switching up this

22:11

format real quick. I actually think,

22:13

I'm going to ask you a

22:15

series of questions and you tell

22:17

me how we solve it. Because.

22:19

Yeah. That confidence that I have

22:21

in myself and my creativity and

22:23

my ideas and my ability to

22:25

execute, when people start working with

22:27

me, I see them use my

22:29

confidence as a reason to not

22:31

tell me no, right? And I'll

22:34

have to say, remember, because one

22:36

of my company's core values is

22:38

radical transparency, is number one. And

22:40

then two is we challenge each

22:42

other every day. So to your

22:44

point, I absolutely need a number

22:46

two. who is just as confident,

22:48

who doesn't have to be prompted

22:50

to say no. Like, so you

22:52

know the, the person you described

22:54

of, somebody who's really strong and

22:56

rigid versus the person who's strong

22:58

but flexible and can be moved,

23:00

people actually assume I'm the strong

23:02

and rigid and I'm always like,

23:04

no, no, no, I'm looking for

23:06

you to tell me no, because

23:08

it actually does help me settle

23:10

in, in the idea that we

23:12

are moving on, because when you

23:14

tell me no, I go to

23:16

that's a great point. So when

23:18

people see those of us who

23:20

are very strong personality types, confident,

23:22

strong visionaries, I think it makes

23:24

sometimes it makes people shrink in

23:26

their own confidence? Yeah. Because they

23:28

see us so confident. It's not

23:30

that I can be less confident,

23:32

but how can I encourage somebody

23:34

to step in their own leadership

23:36

confidently? I will first say my

23:38

upcoming advice has nothing to do

23:40

with your current team. I do

23:42

not know them. I do not

23:44

know how they operate. So I'm

23:46

going to speak in the hypothetical

23:48

of a team. Yeah. Right. So

23:50

for you. you, you would need

23:52

all players. So for the strategic

23:54

roles, you need people who are

23:56

better than you at it. Correct.

23:58

So for the roles that need

24:00

to make strategic decisions, they need

24:02

to be better than you at

24:04

that lane. Yeah. And very confident

24:06

in their lane, but understanding they

24:08

are one voice at the table.

24:10

Right, right. So what I see

24:12

with leaders like you, I've also

24:14

experienced this, is when we have

24:17

staff that maybe are more new

24:19

or more green in their roles,

24:21

then sometimes that immaturity in the

24:23

role can also come with less

24:25

confidence. I actually think that's appropriate.

24:27

If you don't have a level

24:29

10 competency, don't have level 10

24:31

confidence, okay? I'm not upset at

24:33

that. Say that again. do not

24:35

try to have a level 10

24:37

confidence. That mismatch actually causes issues.

24:39

It really does. So if you

24:41

have a level three competency coming

24:43

with a level three confidence, I'm

24:45

very pleased with that, right? If

24:47

I'm clear that you are at

24:49

level three competency wise, I can't

24:51

expect you to come in confidently

24:53

making strategic decisions because that pulls

24:55

you out of your integrity. If

24:57

you can fully realize how greater

24:59

organization is, but you know you

25:01

are not at the skill level

25:03

to make these strategic decisions, please

25:05

don't make it. You will break

25:07

some shape. You just need someone

25:09

who also is a level 10

25:11

competency operator with the matching level

25:13

10 confidence. Right? And for anyone

25:15

listening, please don't get caught up

25:17

in these numbers. I'm making this

25:19

up as a framework to communicate.

25:21

It's not some external system to

25:23

go off of. But I do

25:25

think for you, outlining which of

25:27

the roles need to be able

25:29

to make decisions without levies input,

25:31

what are those? and make meaningful

25:33

decisions. Not just decisions on like,

25:35

is she gonna sit in row

25:37

one or row two, seat A

25:39

or C B, right? Like I

25:41

don't mean those kinds of decisions,

25:43

right? I mean decisions of, are

25:45

we going to do this project

25:47

or not? You need folks who

25:49

are at that level to have

25:51

a level of competency that can,

25:53

in the most nonviolent way, I

25:55

can say this, like, spar with

25:57

you. Yes. Right. And I think

26:00

it's really hard, yeah, like because

26:02

you are so gifted and you

26:04

have, I can already assume, you've

26:06

been the exception in so many

26:08

rooms, that you have grown accustomed

26:10

to just being the exception and

26:12

compensating for you not having other

26:14

people around you to spar with.

26:16

So I think that while it

26:18

has served you beautifully to get

26:20

to this point, for you to

26:22

be able to grow the entity,

26:24

you have to have people who

26:26

can spar with you. And these

26:28

are people who can hold your

26:30

no and not take it personally,

26:32

can like have an idea they

26:34

are so, so excited about, come

26:36

to you with it, you will

26:38

have a meaningful, intelligent, well-rounded discussion

26:40

and to come to a no,

26:42

and they can comfortably accept the

26:44

no. Right? Like if you all

26:46

have come to that you've brought

26:48

when you've prepared to the table,

26:50

and maybe like they're gonna get

26:52

the yes-sum day, you're gonna get

26:54

the yes-sum days, and you all

26:56

understand that, that's resilience in a

26:58

team. That's resilience in a team.

27:00

Resilience in a team is not

27:02

just crisis management. It's what happens

27:04

when we are working to get

27:06

to a place of being competitive,

27:08

being like high performing. There has

27:10

to be resilience in that too

27:12

because when you put high performers

27:14

together and they have differing opinions

27:16

on where to end up, resilience

27:18

is what happens when you can

27:20

bring those people together, how real

27:22

good conversations and people can decenter

27:24

the ego to come to the

27:26

best decision for the organization. which

27:28

is not a reflection of people's

27:30

personhood, it's not personal, but it

27:32

is a share thing you have

27:34

to take care of. So it

27:36

is an external entity, it is

27:38

an external thing that has to

27:41

be moved forward. If I could,

27:43

yeah, put a bow on this,

27:45

you just, you need some A

27:47

players at the strategic level to

27:49

help you have more like a

27:51

council running the business, not just

27:53

it relying on. Lovey being talent,

27:55

operator, visionary, crisis manager, like there's

27:57

too many roles for any one

27:59

person to juggle. you just hit

28:01

the nail on the head about

28:03

me having and needing people to

28:05

spar with. A lot of people

28:07

can't spar. And sparring is the

28:09

exchanging of ideas and actually arguing

28:11

about it, right? Where it's like,

28:13

now I don't think that's what

28:15

I think we should. I'm super

28:17

comfortable doing that. But I think

28:19

people shrink behind it, right? Because

28:21

I'm like, you think I'll ask

28:23

you some of questions, because I

28:25

need my brain to conceptualize what

28:27

you're saying. So a lot of

28:29

people can't deal with the sparring,

28:31

but a lot of us, who

28:33

are the confident visionaries, need that,

28:35

because it actually allows us to

28:37

work through our ideas, and allows

28:39

you to poke holes in the

28:41

idea we just brought you. And

28:43

the thing is, I don't attach

28:45

my ego to my ideas, because

28:47

I realize, even if my idea

28:49

is bad, I'm still good. Of

28:51

course. Like, that's why I'm always,

28:53

whenever I tell people, I'm like,

28:55

I'm like, literally, the first thing

28:57

I tell people who start people

28:59

who start working with If you

29:01

find anything that does not work,

29:03

any systems that are broken, anything

29:05

that is janky, just say it.

29:07

I receive it with no offense.

29:09

In fact, I love when somebody

29:11

points out. That's actually not great.

29:13

That's something I can throw out.

29:15

That's something I can fix. So

29:17

you were spot on in that.

29:19

I need somebody who I can

29:21

smart with. Go tit for tat

29:24

with and be like, bet. Yeah.

29:26

My idea was trash. You are

29:28

correct. You are correct, let's move

29:30

on to another thing. And I

29:32

would offer as well, and this

29:34

is going to sound like a

29:36

hot take at first. Okay. But

29:38

I would offer that I think

29:40

this culture of not wanting to

29:42

have healthy argument is a descendant

29:44

of both slavery and capitalism shaking

29:46

hand. Come on. Like I think

29:48

it is very much the, a

29:50

new iteration of like plantation politics

29:52

of yes, sir, no, sir. Yes,

29:54

ma' ma'am. and the fear of

29:56

being fired, the fear of disagreement

29:58

leading to disrupted livelihood. what that

30:00

could mean for your family. It's also

30:02

why I don't think capitalism

30:04

and meritocracy are actually compatible

30:07

because a real meritocracy requires

30:09

argument. But people's egos and

30:11

people's paychecks don't always love arguments

30:14

coming. For people who have been

30:16

so well rewarded and have been shown

30:18

time and time again that you can

30:20

be a professional film maker, you can

30:22

be excellent and you can present your

30:25

ideas and they have been rewarded for

30:27

it, like we can develop a confidence.

30:29

But if there are people who haven't

30:31

had that exposure, that experience, maybe the

30:33

courage, maybe there's some woundedness from like

30:35

childhood trauma or things like that, they

30:38

may be the most brilliant person walking

30:40

and we wouldn't know, right? And I also

30:42

just want to say for anyone listening,

30:44

because Lovey and I both present

30:46

very confidently, I think we are confident

30:48

people, but also I would just imagine,

30:50

like we have some crazy ideas too. I

30:52

know for a fact I have said some

30:55

dumb shit before okay and really really believed

30:57

it and really believed it that was the

30:59

other thing and by the grace of God

31:01

and the good people I have around me

31:04

I had people who were able to tell

31:06

me Chloe we love you and no and

31:08

I look back and I'm like thank God

31:10

for more people right like tell me to

31:12

tell us no Right, like you have

31:15

to have a reason why you

31:17

can't just come say a no,

31:19

you know, like you have to

31:21

be prepared to stand on that.

31:23

Yeah, like it has to be

31:25

thoughtful, not just fine. Yeah, like

31:28

you need to communicate to me.

31:30

Why? But I love a thoughtful

31:32

no. I love a thoughtful no. I

31:34

love me a thoughtful, yeah. Like

31:36

I can be confident and

31:39

people like, well, she confident. Bessie.

31:41

That doesn't mean I'm right. So,

31:43

and the confidence isn't arrogant either.

31:46

It's, and I don't think it's

31:48

unwarranted. It's the best information I

31:50

have with that time. Yeah. And

31:52

I'm excited, my values are aligned,

31:55

so I'm confidently trying to build

31:57

something that is of good. Yeah. And so,

31:59

yeah, iron sharp. I mean, like, please

32:01

don't be afraid to stand on your

32:03

skill set, right? Oh, yeah. A couple

32:05

of things that you just said that

32:08

I want to drill down on. So

32:10

one, the capitalism, slavery, no mentality, and

32:12

then the two, the confidence of it

32:15

all. Let's talk about the confidence piece

32:17

first. A lot of you reached out

32:19

to me this year. It was like,

32:22

you know, with your, how vulnerable you've

32:24

been on the pot, on the podcast

32:26

where you ever worried about like people

32:28

seeing you different. I'm so confident that

32:31

I can still tell you I'm a

32:33

mess and know I'm still amazing at

32:35

what I do. I can still show

32:38

my mistakes and still show up in

32:40

my fullness knowing that my mistakes were

32:42

part of the journey to build me

32:44

into even better. So I think oftentimes

32:47

because our confidence or self assurance is

32:49

so fragile, we think we're always one

32:51

mistake from it all crumbling down. And

32:54

as leaders and people who are trying

32:56

to build purpose-driven lives, it's a dangerous

32:58

stance to have. Because if your confidence

33:01

is so fragile that it's attached to

33:03

every idea you give being good, everything

33:05

going well, it is easy for all

33:07

of it to start crumbling quick. So

33:10

when we talk about that confidence around

33:12

like us as leaders and as people

33:14

work with us, those of us who

33:17

are truly confident, why we're like please

33:19

tell us knows. We need the no

33:21

so we can be confidently going into

33:24

yeses with energy, full energy. And I

33:26

think that's really important. I don't think

33:28

a lot of people believe it when

33:30

we say, I just want you to

33:33

tell me no. I think sometimes, you

33:35

know, it's not even personal why they

33:37

don't believe it. It's from a string

33:40

of times where they were told, yeah,

33:42

say this, and they say it, and

33:44

then it's a problem. Right. Or maybe

33:47

not not showing how to say no

33:49

in how to say no in a

33:51

way that's meaningful, in a way that's

33:53

meaningful. The other thing that that really

33:56

gripped me while you were speaking is

33:58

that I think so often people are

34:00

afraid to make mistakes because we've been

34:03

lied to about what is required to

34:05

make change. or what it's required to

34:07

build something excellent. And so people feel

34:10

like if they don't show up perfect,

34:12

that means all of these things about

34:14

how they are either not capable, not

34:16

gonna make it, whatever it is, not

34:19

realizing that so much of building things

34:21

you care about does require trial and

34:23

error. People like to say trial and

34:26

error and think the error is just

34:28

like a joke. It's really optional. It's

34:30

real trial. There's sometimes. And I think

34:33

it's okay to make mistakes. I like

34:35

to tell that to people. There's a

34:37

phrase in human center design and it

34:39

says fail and fail fast because failing

34:42

and failing fast means you're learning very

34:44

quickly how to do it well. And

34:46

I think we are, especially in the

34:49

age of you know, digital media. Well,

34:51

actually, even in print media too, it

34:53

just looks different now, but we are

34:56

shown finished products. We are not shown

34:58

the journeys. And I think because we

35:00

are shown finished and we are shown

35:02

polished, it's very misleading whether intentional or

35:05

unintentional as to what's required to get

35:07

there. And so I think people don't

35:09

understand that there's a lot of, there

35:12

are mistakes that happen, but the mistakes

35:14

aren't wrong. It's not that somebody has

35:16

done something wrong. That is a part

35:18

of becoming excellent. So I very much

35:21

appreciate the people like you who are

35:23

willing to be. I don't even think

35:25

I say it's vulnerable anymore. I think

35:28

I say it's holistic. Like who are

35:30

willing to show the entire pie chart,

35:32

not just the 15% that looks sparkly.

35:35

And I think in us sharing the

35:37

mistakes, we really show that. we can

35:39

learn out loud, lead out loud. And

35:41

to your point around slavery and capitalism

35:44

and the remnants and the fingerprints and

35:46

the charcoal that it left on us,

35:48

understanding especially black and brown people, our

35:51

economic outcomes are not great. So we're

35:53

afraid of being afraid. We're afraid of

35:55

losing the jobs. the wealth gap means

35:58

that we feel less room to make

36:00

the mistake. So we're like, let me

36:02

just be quiet through it, right? Thing

36:04

that we keep finding out over and

36:07

over again is that our silence still

36:09

hasn't protected us. So even though we're

36:11

still not saying the knows that we

36:14

need to, even though we will say,

36:16

well, you know what, they got it,

36:18

we're still not getting the job security.

36:21

So what was our silence for? And

36:23

I think it's one of those things

36:25

that it's the best protective action that

36:27

we have often had. So even if

36:30

it doesn't result in the thing that

36:32

we were craving, I mean the fact

36:34

that the silence wouldn't result in what

36:37

we wanted, I think it's just proof

36:39

that it was never going to be

36:41

possible. Oh, right. It's not that it's

36:44

not that if you had spoken up,

36:46

maybe you would have gotten that raise.

36:48

I don't know that you would have

36:50

you would have been branded as aggressive.

36:53

Yeah, I've definitely been braided as aggressive.

36:55

I know I have very funny because

36:57

your girl is five all of five

37:00

two Literally, and you have such a

37:02

baby face. I do I look 15

37:04

you know I remember people outside of

37:07

our organization would come to meet with

37:09

me and they would sit I remember

37:11

the so distinctly I remember people outside

37:13

of our organization would come to meet

37:16

with me and they would sit I

37:18

remember the so distinctly. Nice to meet

37:20

you. Nice to meet you. Yeah, so

37:23

I'm all a five too. Been branded

37:25

as aggressive, right? Because I would say

37:27

things like, hey, I actually am not

37:30

sure that will get us to our

37:32

result. So even, I mean, whether silent,

37:34

where they're speaking up, the systems are

37:36

still so laden with that kind of

37:39

insistence on maintaining a power structure that

37:41

yes is like. keeping people of color

37:43

subservient. I also think it's keeping anybody

37:46

who's not affluent and white subservient. Like

37:48

I think it is very widespread, but

37:50

I think there is this culture of

37:53

authority and affluence being. paired as inextricable,

37:55

noticed that I did not say merit

37:57

in that. I think it is structural

37:59

power. And that's also why I started

38:02

to deeply believe in ownership and what

38:04

led me to entrepreneurship because I realized

38:06

even when I had made Forbes 30

38:09

under 30, even when I had successfully

38:11

built two eight-figure non-profits. It was 2020

38:13

and I wanted to list on our

38:15

website systemic racism as one of the

38:18

reasons why we were seeing so much

38:20

poverty, lack of economic mobility, lack of

38:22

affordable access to childcare, etc. And in

38:25

my mind, that was not a controversial

38:27

thing to do, right? In Memphis, Tennessee,

38:29

we're 65% black. And yet we have

38:32

like 45% child poverty, like there were

38:34

so many things happening. I was like,

38:36

okay, we should name this, this, this,

38:38

and this. And I was told that

38:41

we shouldn't because it might upset the

38:43

funder. And mind you, the work was

38:45

being funded by three different entities. And

38:48

so it potentially could upset the funders.

38:50

So I was being told, even as

38:52

brilliant and excellent in all of these

38:55

accolades that I was given and received,

38:57

etc. And all the autonomy I had

38:59

to make decisions, I was still told

39:01

don't rock the boat. Even though our

39:04

supposed admission was supposed to be to

39:06

spur economic mobility, create more educational opportunity.

39:08

How could we do that if you

39:11

won't even let me say with the

39:13

problems? So even if people do speak

39:15

up, I think. It's appropriate to be

39:18

nervous, but when we have organizations like

39:20

led by you or led by people

39:22

who do get it, being able to

39:24

create businesses that are psychologically safe, being

39:27

able to create businesses where it is

39:29

safe and it's genuinely encouraged and proven

39:31

through action that it is encouraged, not

39:34

just speak, not just fancy branding, proven

39:36

through action that your merit is welcome

39:38

here. I think then you will find

39:41

organizations that are so competitive that it

39:43

confuses everybody else. They're so excellent that

39:45

people can't understand how it could happen.

39:47

Right? And so I remember one of

39:50

the best compliments I've ever gotten, it

39:52

was a woman who was in her

39:54

mid-60s. She had worked at the same

39:57

organization for 40 years. She got moved

39:59

to my department. And she said on

40:01

a meeting one time, it was the

40:04

first time in her entire career, she

40:06

felt like she had a psychologically safe

40:08

work environment. And because of the space

40:10

that I insisted on her having, she

40:13

was able to improve the curriculums they

40:15

were using to coach. other organizations. And

40:17

it's such a small thing, but that

40:20

improvement made a big deal to over

40:22

a hundred different teachers. And it's one

40:24

of those things where she was just

40:27

given the green light and showed with

40:29

real action, proof that it was okay

40:31

to be excellent, and that excellence wasn't

40:33

going to offend my ego, which I

40:36

also think is crazy. But yeah, like

40:38

sometimes people are so nervous about the

40:40

leader's ego that they will sacrifice the

40:43

good of the project. all the time.

40:45

It happens all the time, which is

40:47

why everybody's ego is leading their organizations

40:49

and their companies. That's why, honestly, that's

40:52

why a lot of companies tank, because

40:54

people are stepping into the CEO role

40:56

because they're creative. They have an amazing

40:59

idea. You do have a great mission.

41:01

And I'm talking to somebody who's listened

41:03

to this. Listen, you're an amazing visionary.

41:06

You have incredible ideas. Creativity does not

41:08

create strong companies. Oh, correct. Creativity is

41:10

not what creates strong companies. It is

41:12

not what allows you to be successful,

41:15

to be quite honest. Your creativity kicks

41:17

it off, but unless you have systems

41:19

in place and people in place to

41:22

help you manage it, the creativity does

41:24

not matter. Because you can be the

41:26

best photographer, but if can nobody figure

41:29

out how to book you, then moving

41:31

on to the next person. And that's

41:33

actually why I have you on, because

41:35

the visionary pragmatist that I am is

41:38

why my. why I've been able to

41:40

rebuild my million dollar company, multi-million dollar

41:42

company. Yeah. After it crumbled, the part

41:45

of me that has been very pragmatic

41:47

has been what stood my company up.

41:49

So one thing Chloe is a genius

41:52

at, I would say, an expert at,

41:54

is how to build sustainable and profitable

41:56

companies. I do. So I want to

41:58

bring somebody to the table, y'all, who

42:01

actually knows how we can be successful

42:03

at running our own companies and building

42:05

wealth through it. Because she's a year

42:08

old who has built multiple multi-million dollar

42:10

companies. She's on her third and she's

42:12

30. That is some wild behavior. Chloe

42:15

Hal. Thank you girl. And my girl

42:17

is over here so passionate about this

42:19

that you're offering something free to help

42:21

entrepreneurs further deepen their companies like profitability.

42:24

Yeah. So talk about that. Entrepreneurs Excel.

42:26

Yeah, so I'm hosting a free training

42:28

called Entrepreneur Excel that teaches you the

42:31

A to Z of what are the

42:33

needle movers you need to create and

42:35

deepen in order to build wildly profitable

42:38

multi-six-figure and up businesses while having a

42:40

work schedule that's 30 hours or less

42:42

per week. I say 30 hours or

42:44

less per week because, first of all,

42:47

no one's actually productive 40 hours a

42:49

week. Second, With a work schedule that

42:51

is 30 hours week the rest of

42:54

the time is not for you to

42:56

go hustle It's not for you to

42:58

go do more It's for you to

43:01

go be a real human It's for

43:03

you to have to focus on your

43:05

health to focus on your relationships to

43:07

focus on anything that nourishes you and

43:10

gives you joy that is how we

43:12

resist hustle culture by having rules right?

43:14

Because we're people first, we're not business

43:17

owners first, right? Like you were yourself

43:19

first, then you get to choose the

43:21

roles you find sacred in life, and

43:24

then you get to choose the causes

43:26

you want to also advocate for. In

43:28

the training, I am going to give

43:30

my entrepreneurial playbook to building premium businesses,

43:33

so businesses where you can charge a

43:35

shit ton of money and have clients

43:37

who are thrilled to pay you because

43:40

it is worth it, right? And it's

43:42

very much substance rooted and generational wealth

43:44

building. I can give away a spoiler,

43:46

part of it is just mad. If

43:49

you want to charge $5 for what

43:51

you do and you want to have

43:53

a $10,000 a month, you're going to

43:56

have to make thousands of sales. If

43:58

you want to charge $10,000 for what

44:00

you do and you want a $10,000

44:03

a month, you need one sale. If

44:05

you have to serve one client versus

44:07

thousands versus thousands versus thousands, I promise

44:09

you. the people serving one client are

44:12

going to have much better health outcomes,

44:14

the people who are trying to split

44:16

themselves into a thousand different pieces to

44:19

serve people because you were too scared

44:21

to charge what you were. So in

44:23

entrepreneur Excel, we definitely go through my

44:26

entrepreneurial playbook, but we also talk about

44:28

why should you even consider owning a

44:30

business, especially in this time. And especially

44:32

for all of you who are nervous

44:35

about this, we will talk about why

44:37

should you build a business when there's

44:39

a war happening? We will go there.

44:42

We will talk about why you should

44:44

build a business when you might have

44:46

family members who are not doing as

44:49

financially well as you are right now.

44:51

That's a big one. A lot of

44:53

people have guilt around building the business

44:55

around like, well, like, now do I

44:58

have to, oh, there's a lot of

45:00

things attached to this entrepreneurship thing that

45:02

is beyond just making money. There's a

45:05

lot. Deeply personal. It's deeply personal. It's

45:07

deeply personal. And I think that's why

45:09

people like working with working with me

45:12

is that. but it does affect you

45:14

personally, right? So like your well-being is

45:16

first and it does matter. And it

45:18

matters not just for the little hallmark

45:21

reasons of like, well, we love ourselves,

45:23

da, da, da, da, da, da. Your

45:25

quality of life is really all you

45:28

have. And so we have to have

45:30

a good quality of life now. And

45:32

it's also, like, whatever your quality of

45:35

being is, is what your creations will

45:37

also embody. So if you're giving triggered

45:39

all the time. It's exactly what your

45:41

creations will look like. Oh! Girl, not

45:44

you're dragging us like this. Yes, let

45:46

them know. Yeah, so the deeper your

45:48

well-being is the better the outcomes are

45:51

for literally every aspect of your life.

45:53

So well-being to me is absolutely fundamental

45:55

for just being who you are. But

45:58

it also for all my people who

46:00

need to walk backwards into that messaging,

46:02

it's the best business strategy I can

46:04

give you. So yeah, I'll give you

46:07

the entrepreneur or playbook. We're also gonna

46:09

get into some real human stuff and

46:11

we're gonna talk through some societal things.

46:14

I actually think it is an act

46:16

of justice for black and brown people

46:18

to own their means of production. Same.

46:20

It's the only way we will also

46:23

have the opportunity to build generational wealth.

46:25

It's certainly not by hoping an employer

46:27

sees our merit such that they will

46:30

pay us our worth. It is fundamental

46:32

that if you do not own your

46:34

means of production, you are subsidizing your

46:37

company in some way. Profit happens in

46:39

companies when you generate X amount, they

46:41

subtract a portion and then give you.

46:43

whatever they deem the rest is. And

46:46

you don't have control in that, right?

46:48

So for those of you who really

46:50

want to build generational wealth, I believe,

46:53

if not the fastest way to get

46:55

there, besides just being born wealthy, it

46:57

is to take ownership of your means

47:00

of production, which is how you work,

47:02

when you work, what you charge, and

47:04

what you keep. Those things are very

47:06

important. So we will get into all

47:09

of that in entrepreneur or Excel. So

47:11

how do people sign up for it?

47:13

Y'all, this is free. So if you

47:16

listen to this, jump on this call.

47:18

Like, honestly, these are the things that

47:20

did not exist for us 10 years

47:23

ago. I've been running my own company

47:25

for 15 years. Yeah, 14. Actually, no,

47:27

it's, yeah, 14 years. And I had

47:29

to figure out so much by accident

47:32

when I fall flat on my face.

47:34

When I fall flat on my face

47:36

and I still fall flat on my

47:39

face last year just so you know,

47:41

this is a continuous journey of growth

47:43

and learning and I think for me

47:46

as I talked about my companies whatever

47:48

last year this year it was in

47:50

hopes that others would take something away

47:52

that will make their path easier and

47:55

why it's also important for me to

47:57

have Chloe on this podcast as kind

47:59

of like the ultimate bonus for the

48:02

season is that I heard so many

48:04

people being like oh my gosh I

48:06

was struggling too and I still am.

48:09

And I'm realizing more and more and

48:11

more and more, even before we even

48:13

talk about the money, let's talk about

48:15

the system that's creating this, let's talk

48:18

about the ways in which we need

48:20

to believe that we are worthy of

48:22

a type of rest, even in hustle.

48:25

Just so y'all know, Chloe is tapping

48:27

in from Florence, Italy. I told her

48:29

she needs, let me know when she

48:32

goes to the grocery store, because I

48:34

might have some letters here. But like,

48:36

Chloe's living the life that she's preaching

48:38

she's preaching. I trust in their knowledge

48:41

because there's so much, so much, so

48:43

many, and it pisses me off so

48:45

bad. There's so much fake knowledge out

48:48

here. There's so many coaches who are

48:50

spewing millions. I make $600,000 this month,

48:52

meanwhile, show us the receipts. They can't.

48:55

So Chloe is here, somebody who is

48:57

living what she's preaching and teaching and

48:59

purpose-driven profitability. So entrepreneur Excel. I hope

49:01

y'all tap in. because legit I wish

49:04

I would have had that type of

49:06

a webinar or master class heck three

49:08

years ago when I was trying to

49:11

figure out why my team was crumbling.

49:13

Heck you just told me why my

49:15

team was crumbling you're like you need

49:17

somebody who was able to spark with

49:20

you and I was like oh that

49:22

was what the problem I just need

49:24

that one person I would have saved

49:27

my whole situation. It would have saved

49:29

my whole situation. I think my whole

49:31

situation. I think it's also one of

49:34

those things where something that frustrates me

49:36

but I also have to think there's

49:38

So much misinformation. And there are a

49:40

lot of people who are offering them

49:43

misinformation, but they don't realize it's misinformation.

49:45

Because in their minds, they might actually

49:47

be getting those sales results. But if

49:50

you were to look at the other

49:52

metrics of their lives, their lives are

49:54

probably. Or they may be great at

49:57

sales and marketing, but they're horrible at

49:59

leadership, and their turnover internally is really

50:01

high. So I've had the privilege to

50:03

be on the back, like to see

50:06

the back into some of these businesses,

50:08

some of the bigger businesses in the

50:10

online coaching space, etc. People doing million

50:13

dollar months, people having million dollar years,

50:15

and seeing the staff attrition, seeing how

50:17

messy it is internally, you would be

50:20

so surprised because they are making that

50:22

much money. But they might be miserable

50:24

or their organization is not sustainable because

50:26

people keep coming in and out. So

50:29

there's no institutional knowledge that keeps getting

50:31

passed out. So. All that to say,

50:33

I think, first of all, I'll just

50:36

give kudos to you love me for

50:38

building what you've built and your ability

50:40

to learn and to dream and to

50:43

do something about it, it sounds so

50:45

basic to say out loud, but that

50:47

takes such depths of the human spirit

50:49

to do and to go after. And

50:52

when you were earlier saying, you're tenacious,

50:54

I wanted to lack because I'm like,

50:56

of course you are. It's such a

50:59

thing that radiates from you. that's also

51:01

not easily kept. Like tenacity is something

51:03

I think people might take for granted

51:06

that and say like, oh, well, you're

51:08

just built like that. Yeah, maybe built

51:10

like that. That doesn't mean it doesn't

51:12

mean it doesn't hurt, right? It doesn't

51:15

mean that it doesn't mean that it

51:17

doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean that

51:19

it doesn't come with its challenges. So

51:22

for you to have created, like, maybe

51:24

I didn't have the team around me

51:26

I needed. I hope you know that

51:29

that wasn't a mistake. Right, like it's

51:31

not that you were going around messing

51:33

up. You built this from scratch. Of

51:35

course there are going to be things

51:38

that you will see in hindsight. And

51:40

so yeah, maybe there are still things

51:42

internally that you are going to evolve.

51:45

And something I heard you say earlier

51:47

is that iteration is not necessarily what

51:49

you light up around. But I do

51:51

think that with your business, it will

51:54

go through more iterations. And I think

51:56

they will be as painful as the

51:58

business. having to have just a complete

52:01

refresh. And I hope you know those

52:03

iterations aren't mistakes. I appreciate that. That's

52:05

important to hear, you know, like in

52:08

the midst of it, I was like,

52:10

man, I am terrible at this. I

52:12

am terrible at it. So it's so

52:14

good to hear those affirmations. And for

52:17

me, you know, looking back and being

52:19

like, you know, I know for a

52:21

fact that I am a much better

52:24

leader than I ever was. And I

52:26

have been getting better year by year

52:28

by year like so. Yeah. You know,

52:31

knowing and understanding that the failures are

52:33

always just step in stools to the

52:35

better version of you. I sit with

52:37

that and I'm grateful for the expensive

52:40

lesson because I'm like, listen, I look

52:42

at this point, that, that million dollar

52:44

lesson, listen, um, yeah, you ain't got

52:47

to worry about me making that exact

52:49

same mistake again, because the mistakes might

52:51

be different. They might still come, but

52:54

they'll be different, you know, and each

52:56

mistake teaches me more, because leadership is.

52:58

a series of humbling of knowing when

53:00

to say, I'm sorry, knowing when to

53:03

say, I gotta do different or have

53:05

to pivot. So yeah, no, I am

53:07

grateful for that reflection and I'm grateful

53:10

for your work and I'm grateful for

53:12

your work and I'm so glad you're

53:14

doing entrepreneur Excel and I'm glad to

53:17

be bringing it to my audience. How

53:19

do they sign up for it? All

53:21

these links will be in the show

53:23

notes, but is there a easy way

53:26

for them to register that they're listening

53:28

to? E-X-C-E-L and it'll go from there

53:30

and there again it's it's totally free

53:33

I will be teaching it live this

53:35

is not a recorded session it will

53:37

be me so at the end there

53:40

will be some time for question and

53:42

answer to so if you have question

53:44

please feel free bring up. I can't

53:46

guarantee we'll get to everyone but we'll

53:49

get to as many as possible. Tap

53:51

in. A lot of y'all, remember I

53:53

always say like let my helpers find

53:56

me as a prayer. I actually honestly

53:58

feel like that prayer continues to be

54:00

answered because Chloe I definitely believe that

54:03

you are an answered prayer in that

54:05

way. You know let my helpers find

54:07

me people with passionate clarity of purpose

54:09

who find me and then who say

54:12

you know what I see what you're

54:14

doing. I do not take it for

54:16

granted. So truly truly truly thank you

54:19

for believing in my in me and

54:21

my platform for saying you know what

54:23

I've been following you for a long

54:26

time and once we talked I was

54:28

like oh yeah no no I got

54:30

to I got to let my audience

54:32

know about you because yeah what that

54:35

you're doing is going to help and

54:37

change so many people's lives I receive

54:39

that all in by saying I hope

54:42

that everyone listening who has ever wanted

54:44

to give lovey her flowers but have

54:46

been shy to you please do it

54:48

I'm a big believer in people getting

54:51

their flowers while they can smell them.

54:53

And I am not shy about this

54:55

when I was prepping for my TED

54:58

Talk. Lubbies was the one that I

55:00

found in Watch that made that helped

55:02

had me feeling like, oh yeah I

55:05

don't know if I told you that

55:07

your TED Talk, you were the representation

55:09

for me because I didn't see anybody

55:11

who was like, like I was really

55:14

looking for a black woman who... could

55:16

be both so soft and so intelligent

55:18

at the same time and the TED

55:21

talks that were being shown to me

55:23

just were very much not culturally aligned

55:25

and so when I found yours I

55:28

felt so hopeful and like I could

55:30

do it so I mean I just

55:32

want to thank you for again like

55:34

your light and I said this in

55:37

our first call that your work really

55:39

does matter I met that personally too

55:41

so if anybody's listening and they have

55:44

not yet given lovey her flowers please

55:46

do it and do it often it

55:48

does matter. Oh my gosh, my heart

55:51

is full, my heart is full. Y'all,

55:53

we have given y'all a lot. Oh,

55:55

and I have one more thing to

55:57

tell y'all about, actually. I've talked about

56:00

like three different assessments that I loved.

56:02

And Chloe, I haven't even told you

56:04

about this assessment that I've created. So

56:07

it's been years in the making. I

56:09

have wanted to create this since my

56:11

book came out. Professional Troublemaker

56:13

came out. I have finally done it

56:16

and it's finally ready. It is the

56:18

professional troublemaker quiz. What type

56:20

of a professional troublemaker are you?

56:22

I've wanted to build it for years because

56:25

I also want people to know. what super power

56:27

they have that they can wield in the room.

56:29

Are you a truth teller? Do you use your

56:31

voice like I do? Are you a bridge builder

56:33

using collaboration and compromise? Are you

56:36

a hard helper using empathy

56:38

and support? Or are you a mind

56:40

molder using data and intellect?

56:42

So when you step into the room,

56:44

you knowing what type of professional troublemaker

56:46

you are and also knowing what other

56:48

troublemakers are in the room and what

56:51

their powers are allows you to now

56:53

play against each other. And I think so

56:55

often people think about just the truth

56:57

tellers as the professional troublemakers. So if

56:59

you're listening to this and you're like,

57:01

I don't always have the right words,

57:03

that's okay. Because maybe your power of

57:06

collaboration is actually what you need to

57:08

lead with. Or maybe it's you being the

57:10

supported person who was like, let's talk about

57:12

it after the meeting. Or maybe it's you

57:14

bringing the data to the table and saying, hey,

57:16

hey, I have the numbers to actually prove

57:18

what the truth teller just said. So if

57:20

you want to know what type

57:23

of professional troublemaker you are, you

57:25

can go to troublemakerquiz.com. It is brand

57:27

new. I am excited to find out. I know

57:29

it's probably going to be a whole lot

57:31

of truth tellers following me, but listen, if you're

57:33

not a truth teller, whatever your superpower is,

57:35

it's still super valid, just as valid.

57:37

Okay, the truth tellers get the attention.

57:40

Listen, we still need you to show

57:42

up in that room. in your fullness.

57:44

So Chloe, I'm actually curious to see

57:46

what type of professional. I will take

57:48

it immediately. I will take it immediately.

57:50

Yeah. And I just feel so grateful

57:52

as well to know that, bring one who's also

57:54

into this, I mean, take it with me. How

57:56

rare is it that we get someone who gets

57:58

ours to create a tool? that can help

58:01

us better understand ourselves. Like

58:03

I hope you don't take

58:05

this for granted because how

58:07

exceptional that we can live

58:09

in a time where we

58:11

can learn more about ourselves

58:13

and get really thoughtful frameworks

58:16

to help us deepen who

58:18

we are. So I'll take

58:20

it as soon as we

58:22

log off. Yeah. Yes, yes,

58:24

yes. And let people know

58:26

in Entrepreneur Excel which one

58:28

you end up being. Yeah,

58:31

I will. No, so y'all

58:33

take Entrepreneur Excel. Like if

58:35

you are thinking about starting

58:37

a business or you are

58:39

already in business, it will

58:41

be deeply helpful to you.

58:43

You know, find this information

58:46

now because it's gonna fill

58:48

some gaps. Just look in

58:50

the notes or DM, me,

58:52

or Chloe on Instagram with

58:54

the word Excel and they'll

58:56

send you a link to

58:58

register. It's free. show up,

59:01

bring your notebook, okay? She's

59:03

gonna be dropping all the

59:05

gems. Apply it and just

59:07

know that whatever level of

59:09

entrepreneurship you are in, or

59:11

whether you just started dreaming

59:13

about it, we're with you

59:16

in this, but now there

59:18

are some dope black girls

59:20

who are making good money

59:22

doing what God told them

59:24

to do. And isn't that

59:26

a gift? Okay, making good

59:28

money. Yeah. Amen. Thank you

59:30

so much for being here,

59:33

Chloe. If you love this

59:35

podcast, you'll love my newsletter,

59:37

the love letter. That's where

59:39

you go sign up and

59:41

it's my weekly note on

59:43

all things culture business and

59:45

leadership. Tapping all over and

59:48

talk to you on the

59:50

next episode.