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slash paper copy. 10

1:04

years ago this weekend on the PW

1:06

Torch livecast, Greg Parks and James

1:08

Caldwell hosted the WWE Extreme Rules post

1:10

game show. It originally live streamed on

1:12

April 26th, 2015. The event included Seth

1:14

Rollins against Randy Orton in a

1:16

cage match for the world title. Big

1:19

show against Roman Reigns at a last

1:21

man standing match. Rusev against John

1:23

Cena in a Russian chain match for

1:25

the US title. Also in action, New

1:27

Day, Dolph Ziggler, Seamus, Dean Ambrose, bad

1:29

news Barrett, Nikki Bella and more.

1:31

So let's get to it, this is

1:33

today's Best of Edition, a 10 -year

1:35

flashback of the PWTorch livecast. You

1:44

are listening to the PWTorch livecast.

1:46

It is Sunday night. It is

1:48

April 26, 2015, following WWE's Extreme

1:50

Rules pay -per -view here on The

1:52

Post Game Show. Break it all

1:54

down, take your phone calls, see

1:57

what you have to say about Extreme

1:59

Rules. on the livecast hotline

2:01

6467219828

2:03

is the number to call us here on the

2:05

show drop us an email at pwchorgeslivecast

2:08

.com as well have the email

2:10

pulled up tonight and join

2:12

me on the post game show

2:14

is my usual monthly sidekick

2:16

and co -host George Thomas Greg

2:18

Parks Greg how are you doing

2:20

tonight I'm doing well thank

2:23

you James I was going to talk

2:25

to you and Greg, I'm not

2:27

quite sure what to make of this show yet.

2:29

I think hopefully the show will help me

2:31

process tonight's Extreme Rules show, but

2:33

not a lot that we

2:35

didn't expect. It's all

2:37

about, so it comes down to the execution,

2:39

and I'm curious, Greg, what your thoughts are

2:41

overall, whether or not you

2:43

have a 0 to 10 score or not,

2:45

I don't. I'm still trying to figure that

2:47

out, but what was your overall reaction to tonight's

2:49

pay -per -view? I'm

2:52

thinking slight thumbs up now,

2:54

somewhere 5 .5 -6

2:57

maybe. I think there

2:59

was enough good on there. The main

3:01

event was not one of them. But

3:04

we had the Tag Team title

3:06

match, which was pretty good, helped

3:08

by a hot crowd. Not really

3:10

sold on the finish with New Day

3:12

winning, but at least it's something to talk

3:14

about coming out of this paper view. Dean

3:17

Ambrose and Luke Harper was

3:19

different. I'll give them that. I

3:21

think that Seamus -Thelves -Ziegler,

3:23

for what it was, was

3:25

pretty decent. I think last

3:28

week on the post -raw life, yes,

3:30

I pegged that as a possible

3:32

match -pender. I didn't think they got

3:34

enough time to really go that

3:36

far, but the match

3:38

itself was good. The

3:40

post -match, you

3:43

know, that's debatable. I think

3:45

we'll probably talk about that later on. And

3:47

big show Roman Reigns, I didn't have a

3:49

huge problem with that match. That was something that

3:52

I think a lot of fans dreaded coming into the

3:54

show, but they

3:57

did enough to get over Roman Reigns

3:59

in that environment and they

4:01

used enough tricks and

4:03

shortcuts to where it wasn't

4:05

Roman Reigns having to wrestle

4:08

a 20 -minute match. It was

4:10

Roman Reigns getting to stand around for most of the match

4:12

or sell for most of the match. I'm

4:16

thinking slight thumbs up right now. Yeah,

4:20

I'm in that slight thumbs

4:22

up range too. I

4:24

didn't feel like there were bad

4:26

matches. There

4:29

were matches that you kind of eye rolled

4:31

at, like the cage match being compromised. The

4:34

stipulations hurt some of the matches, I

4:36

think, rather than helps. They're

4:40

usually set up to help, and usually they do,

4:42

but I think tonight some of the

4:44

stipulations hurt

4:47

the match more than helped. Yeah,

4:49

there's a good way of putting it. Yeah,

4:51

I mean, you would think that adding a

4:54

stipulation would increase the likability of a match,

4:56

create more drama, all this sort of

4:58

stuff, but it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like this

5:00

was like TNA lockdown, where every match is in a cage,

5:02

you know, by the time you get to the seventh cage match,

5:04

you're just, can we have any

5:06

other match, please? Begging you something else different.

5:08

It wasn't like that kind of taking away from

5:10

match. It just felt like the stipulation

5:12

either got in the way or became Like

5:14

in the case of seeing a Rusev,

5:16

this just became very repetitive. And

5:18

we've seen the Strat match format

5:20

a lot, not recently, but a lot.

5:23

You kind of know what's going to happen. You

5:25

know, there's not going to be a finish

5:27

until, you know, 15 minutes in, and it'll

5:29

be something kind of silly. So I thought

5:31

that hurt in the cage match hurt with,

5:34

you know, Michael Koch kind of stumbled across

5:36

my main criticism of the first half, which

5:38

was Orton was on defense for most of

5:40

the match, and that just wasn't very interesting.

5:42

trying to prevent Seth from climbing out the

5:44

cage. So, I mean, yeah, I'm with you

5:46

on that point, Greg. I think there were

5:48

some stipulation matches that were hurt by having

5:50

a stipulation. I think Sina Rusev

5:53

straight up probably could have

5:55

been a lot better than Sina Rusev with

5:57

the silly strap match format. But now

5:59

that I quit match next month in three

6:01

weeks, so there's another install for that

6:03

series. As

6:05

far as the main event, Greg, we

6:07

knew there was a media compromise. Just kind of knew

6:09

it was going to happen. Was

6:12

it enough

6:15

to detract from the match in a way

6:17

that was put a damper on the pay -per -view?

6:19

Was it kind of what we expected? It wasn't that big

6:21

of a deal. What's your overall takeaway

6:23

from the main event at Rollins, Orton? I

6:27

think the fact

6:29

that everyone knew

6:31

something was going to

6:34

happen to compromise

6:36

the cage stipulation hurt

6:38

it. because you had the fans, I think,

6:40

sitting on their hands for most of

6:42

the match because they knew everything

6:44

that was happening was inconsequential

6:46

until someone interfered or

6:48

until Cain revealed his true

6:50

allegiance, until J &J security

6:52

got involved, something like that.

6:54

They had set it up expectation

6:57

-wise to where

6:59

the fans didn't care about

7:01

anything that happened because they knew

7:03

none of it would

7:06

matter until someone interfered. And

7:08

what's frustrating is

7:10

it's a cage match.

7:12

And no one's supposed to be able to

7:15

interfere. But they had set it up

7:17

to the point where you knew something was going

7:19

to happen. And that was

7:21

really frustrating because it not only

7:23

did so much damage to the cage stipulation,

7:25

it did damage to the match because no one

7:27

was buying what Browns and Orton were

7:29

selling in the early portions of it. And

7:32

I think it gets to the biggest

7:34

point of criticism over the

7:36

last Well, a year

7:38

and a half, but definitely

7:41

the last several months, is the

7:43

authority. And how everything runs through

7:45

the authority, and Sting

7:47

was supposed to conquer the authority at WrestleMania. This

7:49

is the first pay -per -view since WrestleMania. Sting

7:51

did not conquer the authority. Business resumed

7:53

as normal, where he always can do whatever

7:55

they want, and at

7:57

a certain point, no one cares. It's

8:00

just like, whatever, just, he always runs

8:02

a rough shot, and you're kind of expecting J

8:04

&J to interfere and Cain to interfere. Triple

8:06

H, you just stand around doing nothing

8:08

and stuff and you just let it all

8:10

happen. You're like Seamus with the Kiss

8:13

My Horse match where he doesn't have to fall

8:15

during the stipulation. It's no big deal. Just low

8:17

blows and leaves a ring. You

8:20

can't get people to care

8:22

when they're expecting shenanigans. It's

8:25

W -SW booking. A lot

8:27

of this feels like W -SW, where

8:29

you just expect craziness to happen and nobody

8:31

cares and just move on. They

8:34

see it up and down the show. I mean, you know, the Divas

8:36

title feud, you know, when did

8:38

the bellows become babyfaces? I mean, where did

8:41

I miss something? You know, it's just, you

8:43

know, that's what made frustration

8:45

with the show and

8:47

the overall booking is everything

8:49

goes through the authority and

8:51

the authority has run rough

8:53

shot over everything to where

8:55

people just, you know, it's the, you know, it's

8:58

the submit. It's a Bruce Mitchell column in the

9:00

newsletter from months and months ago. Everyone

9:02

will eventually just submit, and you

9:04

know, sometimes the vouchers submit, and they just say, ah,

9:06

you know what, this the way it is. Other

9:08

times, baby phases, they just submit and say, oh, okay,

9:10

is the way it is, you know, so. It's

9:13

just frustrating, because it doesn't

9:15

set up things where there's a

9:17

resolution. Staying in Hunter was

9:19

supposed to a resolution or a summating, and they went

9:21

all wacko with the NWO reunion, so. That's

9:23

just my main contention with the

9:26

overall environment right now. And

9:28

I kind of saw it throughout

9:30

the show, but there's still some

9:32

highlights, Greg. mean, I thought actually, my

9:35

best match to show

9:37

was on the pre -show. It was Neville

9:39

and Bad News Barrett. Greg,

9:41

what do you think about that match

9:43

and also the side note of them?

9:45

How did they handle Dana Bryan with

9:47

the injury situation? They announced a couple hours before the

9:50

show on their website. Oh, by the way,

9:52

Bryan's not going to wrestle tonight. What do

9:54

you think about how they handled that situation? Well,

9:58

you know, not knowing

10:00

the details of it, I can't

10:02

really criticize or pat WWE in the

10:04

back for how they handled the Daniel

10:06

Bryan situation. You have to imagine they

10:08

would have known before today and you would have liked to

10:10

have seen them announce it as soon as

10:12

they knew, but maybe they didn't

10:15

know until today. And until that

10:17

stuff comes out, I'm not really

10:19

ready to... comment on that

10:21

I guess one way or the other

10:23

but yeah Adrian Neville I think it

10:25

was a solid replacement for Daniel Bryan

10:27

and like you said it was a

10:29

good match on the pre -show Neville

10:31

Surprisingly, I think to a lot

10:33

of people got the victory But

10:35

yeah, you know, I think we're looking

10:37

at Neville becoming the next Daniel

10:39

Bryan as far as WWE booking

10:41

goes He's the next off

10:43

-start underdog type character who

10:46

I think fans will

10:48

gravitate toward In

10:50

the words of Sheamus, little fella. know

10:52

I think right about that. yeah Because,

10:57

again, following up on the

10:59

previous point, Sheamus proved his point. He's

11:01

the heel, but that whole match was

11:03

him dominating Ziggler, and Ziggler won because he

11:06

got a roll -up. It wasn't

11:08

like Ziggler got the zig -zag or

11:10

some other high -impact finisher. He

11:12

won because he was able to roll

11:14

up Sheamus, and Sheamus dominated the match. just,

11:17

you know, they're trying to get

11:19

heat on heels, but at some point

11:21

it feels like it's in WLW

11:23

Chevy Booking sometimes. Not

11:25

as bad, but it's just too

11:27

much of that. You

11:30

can support

11:32

us on Patreon and get these

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11:55

can also upgrade to other tiers

11:57

and receive even more benefits

11:59

through Patreon. Well,

12:05

first, before go to phone calls, I

12:07

want to hit on that point. I want to point you mentioned the

12:09

time. New Day, one of the

12:11

tag titles, the only title change of the

12:13

show, a lot of other sort

12:15

of sub -stories will get to a phone call.

12:17

But, Greg, what are your thoughts on New Day

12:19

becoming tag champs? That

12:21

was a surprising result to me. I

12:24

thought Cesaro and Tyson

12:26

Kidd had done a really good job as

12:28

tag champions. I thought

12:30

the New Day was getting

12:33

over his heels.

12:35

But I

12:37

wonder... It's almost the

12:39

same thing that WWE uses

12:41

to say Daniel Bryan isn't

12:44

over. Daniel Bryan

12:46

has the yes chance, but

12:48

it's almost like a knee -jerk reaction

12:50

that fans do without thinking. Well,

12:52

New Day has heat, but the New

12:54

Day sucks chant, which fans almost do without

12:56

thinking, just because when you hear them

12:58

hitting on the mat, all of a sudden

13:00

this New Day sucks. Is that

13:02

real heat or is it just Pavlov's

13:04

dog's reaction to what the new day

13:07

is doing? Either way,

13:09

I think it's too early to put

13:11

the titles on the new day. Now,

13:13

that's not to say that Kofi Kingston

13:15

and Xavier Wood and Big E

13:17

are good enough in the ring to carry

13:19

it, but I just wonder character -wise if

13:22

that's the right move right now. Yeah,

13:25

I'm with you. It feels like sort of

13:27

that Pavlovian situation. I'm with you on

13:29

that point. It's

13:31

like, hey, at least people are reacting. For

13:35

WWE, it's like, hey, we'll take it. And

13:37

we'll put the tag titles on them anyway. And

13:40

you know it's too great. They're going to

13:42

lose non -title for like a month. And

13:44

totally rematch. Well, actually, the rematch will

13:46

be in three weeks, probably, at the next

13:49

pay -per -view. Well, I mean,

13:51

hey, it could be tonight or Monday night

13:53

on Raw. It

13:55

could be a one -day title reign. We'll see what

13:57

happens. Let's go to phone calls.

14:00

Again, the number to call us

14:02

here on the POST game

14:04

show is 6467219828. I'm

14:06

Torch Assist Editor, James Caldwell, joined

14:08

by Torch .com, Ms. Greg Parks.

14:10

All of our coverage of

14:12

Extreme Rules at pwtorch .com, pwtorch .com

14:15

.slashmembers. If you're a VIP member,

14:17

my pay -per -view report, Pat McNeil's pay -per -view report, all

14:19

the news and notes, and vote in our polls.

14:21

We'll take a look at the polls later on in

14:23

the show. and see what the

14:25

votes are coming in for for best match

14:27

and zero to ten scores. So go

14:30

to PWBtowards .com, read all the coverage of

14:32

today's big news and results from Extreme Rules.

14:34

Let's go to our first phone call.

14:36

First up is 614 Area Code.

14:39

Welcome to show 614. Please hit your name where you're

14:41

calling from. Hey, James

14:43

and Greg, this is Adam from Columbus, Ohio. How

14:45

are you doing tonight? Doing

14:47

good, Adam. You got another NXT show coming your

14:49

way in a couple of guys, a couple

14:51

months. Yeah, Ohio is a

14:53

good place to be right now. Cavs

14:56

are playing. We've got the Buckeyes, of

14:58

course. So we'll see. I'm going to try

15:01

to make that show. But hey, just

15:03

a couple of quick comments, and I'm sure

15:05

you've got a number of phone bank

15:07

lighting up. Have you

15:09

guys noticed the electronic ring

15:11

apron or the billboard, I

15:13

would call it? I've

15:16

been watching Ford on TV. Haven't seen it there.

15:18

I thought they may bring it tonight. I'm

15:20

actually glad it's not there. That was distracting. I

15:22

think it was also a possible injury angle

15:24

that could have happened. Do you

15:26

think that was just something to test

15:28

out, kind of like the cameras

15:30

in the corners? Do you think that's

15:32

coming back or not? That

15:34

was my first question. Yeah.

15:37

When you say electronic scoreboard, you mean along

15:39

the ring apron? Yeah,

15:42

the ring apron. They

15:44

had it one show I

15:46

know, but I haven't seen it

15:48

recently. Yeah,

15:50

I mean it could be injury related. Yeah,

15:53

I mean it could be like they

15:55

viewed it as unsafe. I mean with the

15:57

scoreboard right there, that could be it.

15:59

It could be a cost thing.

16:03

Maybe it's a little bit expensive and

16:05

had to cut back. Or

16:07

just experimental. I

16:09

couldn't give you definitive answer, but I'm sure there's a couple of

16:11

different things, yeah. Well, on

16:13

to the pay -per -view tonight. I have

16:15

to give credit. The network stream was

16:17

fine. I always reported about that. My

16:20

stream quality was this good

16:22

for WrestleMania, but I'll take it.

16:24

No glitches, no restarts, Apple

16:26

TV. I'm so happy there. I

16:29

actually thought the pay -per -view was a

16:31

lot better going in. I think this was

16:33

one of those lowered expectations, right? We

16:36

all had coming in. And

16:38

sometimes when you go see a movie and you don't

16:40

think it's going to be OK and it turns out

16:42

to be a little bit better than good, you think,

16:44

oh, it was awesome. So it wasn't awesome, but definitely

16:46

had some good matches. I agree

16:48

with Greg. Actually, the tag match, I

16:50

think, was the match of the night for

16:53

me personally. Crowd was

16:55

hot. Kid and Cesaro

16:57

did great. The new day, actually,

16:59

I think Biggie and Kofi, that's

17:01

probably the best match they've had.

17:04

in a number of months, if not

17:06

a year. I remember Big E's last

17:08

big spot was that dive through the

17:10

ring before two. So I

17:12

thought that was match of the night. And

17:14

I think the next best match for

17:16

me, I thought was entertaining was the Divas

17:18

match. I still

17:20

have no clue if they

17:22

turned heel again tonight or

17:25

not. It's

17:28

like Bre hitting...

17:30

Naomi, yeah, in

17:32

the head, you know, it wasn't

17:34

necessarily a heel thing because she

17:37

was just getting back, but it

17:39

fit their character, the MO, of

17:41

being heeled. So I have no

17:43

clue, and it was even funny

17:45

when Renee was interviewing Naomi earlier

17:47

on about, so you got rid

17:49

of the bad girl, and now she's got the new

17:51

music, so no one's calling her mom anymore. So

17:54

I was going to end it, and my

17:56

last comment tonight was, I think we all

17:59

better get ready for the

18:01

apocalypse because I

18:03

couldn't believe what I saw when the crowd

18:05

popped for Sina when he won. I

18:08

think that almost might be the

18:10

headline of the night, that Chicago cheer

18:12

Sina. I think

18:14

that might have been the

18:16

biggest reaction for the whole night

18:18

when he finally did big

18:20

FU and got the 1 -2 -3,

18:22

but he got the fourth corner.

18:27

I couldn't believe it. So maybe it was

18:29

the USA vs. Russia thing. I think

18:31

they were cheering maybe USA vs. Sina, but

18:33

I thought it was a big pop. But overall, thumbs

18:36

up. I'd give it a solid, I'd say 6 out

18:39

of 10. So that's it for me. I'll hand

18:41

the mic over to someone else. Appreciate you guys. Oh,

18:43

and by the way, sorry about Houston tonight. They

18:46

laid an egg. We're

18:49

making a comeback. We're going down by

18:51

10. We're going down by 10. Yeah, we

18:53

were in a really strange game. Yeah,

18:56

that's bad. That's actually one of the worst

18:58

games that seem that's up 3 -0 in

19:00

the series to be down 20 in the

19:02

fourth that just I don't know I mean

19:04

I would be cautious mama Houston family making

19:06

some people mad, but We'll see how far

19:08

they go. I'll talk to you as the

19:11

playoffs continue, but that's it for me guys

19:13

appreciate it. All right, good stuff.

19:15

All right, Adam. Thanks for the call

19:17

Yes, Greg, you know, you know

19:19

I don't hit on the point about

19:21

Cena and I also kind of

19:23

saw the reins where I was

19:25

not a typical go -against -the -grain

19:27

crowd. They were

19:29

mainly going with the

19:31

flow. I

19:33

mean, I wouldn't say 100%, you

19:35

know. They didn't have that JBL

19:37

chance there. Was that during the

19:39

re -spaceshow match? Yeah, I think

19:41

that was. It was that when winner of

19:44

the announced ever ride in Big Show scattered the

19:46

announcers and JBL stood up. Yeah. I

19:48

guess that's the side effect of scattering the announcers.

19:50

JBL stands up and he pops out of a crowd.

19:52

He's so tall. I'm

19:56

thinking he wished he got that kind of reaction

19:58

when he was an active wrestler just by standing

20:00

up, you know? So

20:03

where was this 20 years

20:05

ago? Yeah, Justin Hawks, Bradshaw. uh...

20:09

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that,

20:11

you know, this crowd, they did

20:13

the CM Punk Chance, but it wasn't like

20:15

it was, you know, in the middle of

20:17

matches where, you know, you don't want to see

20:19

him punk chant. You

20:22

know, I don't know. I don't know if it's Seen

20:25

that WWE did not go all the

20:27

way with Reigns and WrestleMania and that was

20:29

like a relief to a lot of

20:31

fans and they're not as Like that was

20:33

like some goodwill toward a segment of the audience

20:35

and you know the fans that be vocally

20:38

opposed to certain things were more laid -back time

20:40

and like I'm not sure which way to

20:42

go in this one Greg. Was it just a good

20:44

night for WWE? Was it a bookie? Was it something else?

20:46

What do you think? I'm

20:49

not sure I think For Cena,

20:51

you have to sort of give

20:53

credit to Rusev as a heel

20:55

to get the crowd behind Cena. And

20:58

I think his decision

21:00

to send Lana to the back

21:02

turned him very much heel to a

21:05

lot of the fans in Chicago, and

21:07

they wanted to boot him for that,

21:09

so they in turn sheared Cena. Even

21:11

though the whole Lana thing made absolutely

21:13

no sense in the context of her

21:15

character, and you can see they're pushing

21:17

for the breakup of Rusev and Lana.

21:20

but the way they're doing it

21:22

just bothers me because it's

21:24

not consistent with her character to

21:26

have done something like that tonight to stand on

21:28

the apron and acknowledge the cheers. But

21:31

I think we got to give

21:33

credit to Arusa for being such a good heel

21:35

that even the Chicago fans will cheer

21:37

John Cena in that environment.

21:39

And with the last man

21:41

standing match, I think it was the booking of

21:43

the match, maybe, that Turd Reigns' baby saves. You

21:46

could argue maybe that Big

21:48

Show is an effective heel

21:50

in this role that allowed Reigns

21:52

to be a babyface

21:54

for this notoriously difficult

21:56

crowd. The

21:59

number one newsworthy thing

22:01

coming out of this show was not the crowd.

22:04

There was a chance that would

22:06

happen given how this show

22:08

looked on paper and the possibility

22:10

of the crowd rejecting a lot

22:12

of what was set to happen. But

22:15

the fact that it wasn't,

22:17

I think speaks well to WWE,

22:20

however they got it done. And

22:22

again, you can book in, you can credit

22:24

the performers, what have you. But

22:26

yeah, the crowd was far from

22:28

newsworthy tonight. Need

22:32

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23:33

you in the paradise. I

23:38

think Big Show is a perfect heel, Greg, because

23:40

he plays a good heel as a

23:42

character. And after

23:45

800 heel and face turns, And also

23:47

the crowd doesn't like him. They don't

23:49

think that he's underutilized or underpushed or

23:51

never given a chance. He's

23:53

like the perfect combination of they don't like

23:55

the character. They play along with

23:57

the character being a heel and they don't like

24:00

him. They're

24:02

not going to be like, oh, I've

24:04

got root for show because the resistance

24:06

and he's not being pushed. And yada,

24:08

yada, yada. And there's none

24:10

of that. And so I think, like

24:12

you said, he's the perfect foil for

24:14

Reigns who You know, you

24:16

run the risk of the crowd booing

24:18

both guys or poo poo in the

24:20

match and you know, but I think there I

24:22

and I go back to WrestleMania. I

24:25

think there is a release of

24:27

all the frustration toward Reigns with a sort

24:29

of feeling like it's inevitable that he's

24:31

gonna become WWE champion at WrestleMania. He doesn't

24:33

deserve it. It's on the right timing,

24:35

blah, blah, blah. And when it

24:37

didn't happen, it's like there was a release

24:39

of all this tension for like five

24:41

months. And now people are like, okay. I

24:44

won't hate Reigns. I'm not

24:46

necessarily liking the guy. His

24:49

promos are still not good. That

24:51

promo before the match

24:53

was... I mean,

24:55

it was just like a robot, but

24:57

there isn't as much tension toward

24:59

him, and that's a positive and something

25:01

to build on. Also,

25:04

Greg, not being in the title picture, I

25:06

think it's been a positive for him to

25:08

get away from that and just be in

25:10

this separate program show. It's been a good

25:12

move. Now he might be

25:14

back in the title picture in three weeks of payback.

25:16

We'll have to see how that plays out. But

25:19

at least for one show, he was not there. And

25:21

I think that's a good thing. New

25:24

day. Yeah, the tag match.

25:26

Adam mentioned the tag match. Yeah, thought

25:28

it was probably right now. I'm not sure how

25:31

to rank him yet. I know I have to start ratings. I've

25:33

got to kind of categorize that because they're all kind of

25:35

lumped together in my mind. But right

25:37

now, that match is getting the number two most votes

25:39

for best match. Greg, did you agree

25:41

that was a pretty good match? And what do you think that

25:43

was a good match? Oh,

25:45

yeah. I thought it was one of the

25:47

better matches on the show. I

25:49

just think Cesaro and Kate have really come together

25:51

as a tag team. I think they work

25:54

well together. I don't know if

25:56

this was a babyface turn for

25:58

them by facing the new day. They

26:00

were babyfacing in Chicago, certainly. I

26:04

hesitate to get on board with that just because

26:06

Tyson and Kate have done such a good

26:08

job as a heel. And I figured it was

26:10

going to lead to the breakup of him

26:12

and Natalia. And if they go babyface, then you

26:14

don't get the payoff to all that angst

26:16

that we've seen between kid and Natalia. But

26:19

the new day, they're

26:21

not bad in the ring.

26:23

And it's never been the problem

26:25

with them. The problem

26:28

has been the gimmick.

26:30

And now that they've sort

26:32

of become self -aware as

26:34

a gimmick, it certainly

26:36

has heels. They're

26:38

a lot more tolerable because

26:40

they have an understanding that

26:42

they're not like. It's not

26:44

like they're going out there

26:46

and are almost

26:48

on a separate planet from

26:50

the crowd and completely

26:53

not acknowledging the obvious, which

26:55

is people are moving them out of

26:57

the building. But now that they're doing it,

26:59

it's a lot more tolerable as a

27:01

gimmick. Again, I'm not sure

27:03

that it's ready to

27:06

be Tag Team Champions yet. But

27:09

the match itself, I had no

27:11

problem with it. It was a good

27:13

match. Yeah, agreed. Adam

27:16

Pritchard, the phone call. Good to

27:18

talk to you. Let's go to

27:20

our next caller. 630 area code.

27:23

Welcome to show 630. Please say your name or your

27:25

calling from. Hey, it's Craig

27:27

from Chicago. Craig

27:29

from Chicago. Always good to hear from you on the post

27:31

game show. Were you actually at the pay -per -view or

27:33

did you watch it? No, there

27:35

was no way I was going to pay $149

27:37

for this show. That's

27:40

how much the tickets were. I'm not

27:42

crapping you. I understand.

27:45

What would you think of watching the show then? You

27:48

know,

27:50

I think they like to insult

27:52

our intelligence because if you ban the RKO

27:54

in a cage match, you know, there's really

27:57

no disqualification. So what's stopping them from doing

27:59

it anyways, you know, made no sense.

28:01

It must have the whole thing. It

28:04

must have been a gentleman's agreement before the

28:06

match. I guess. I don't

28:08

know. I hate to

28:10

say it, but I

28:13

know people are going to say, oh,

28:15

no, they're in great financial shape and everything. But

28:18

this is dying in slow, painful

28:20

death. It really, really is. At

28:23

one time, WCW

28:25

was financially solvent. And

28:28

you saw what happened to them with garbage

28:30

that they put on over the last few

28:32

years. I mean, this stuff could turn, turn

28:34

on a dime quickly. You got

28:36

this garbage pay -per -view. Yes, it was

28:38

a garbage pay -per -view. The crowd was

28:40

apathetic. Your number one

28:42

star, I mean, the number one

28:45

star in pro wrestling today

28:47

is at home because you don't

28:49

want to pony up the money that it's going to

28:51

take to get them to appear at least every Monday night

28:53

and one Sunday a month. So,

28:56

I feel bad for these wrestlers. They're

28:58

out there because They're

29:00

creatively stifled, you know, you can't get out there

29:02

and do what you got to do to put

29:04

on a good show. You

29:06

know, I don't know what Vince, if

29:09

he doesn't want to throw wrestling then he shouldn't

29:11

even have throw wrestling going on then, you

29:13

know. If he wants entertainment, do

29:16

something else with this network. It shouldn't, don't, you

29:18

know, I mean, I just don't

29:20

get what this has turned into now.

29:22

You know, I'm just lost on it

29:24

all. That's all I got. I

29:26

think it's a little bit different than

29:28

WSUB in the sense that they own their

29:30

deal. WSUB is the mercy

29:33

of Time Warner A. Well, they

29:35

were bleeding money. WSUB is not bleeding

29:37

money based on the court reports

29:39

and all that. So those two fundamental things are

29:41

different. But I get the creative, and I mentioned earlier

29:43

in the show, there are

29:45

things that feel creatively

29:47

like WSUB, with the whole NWO

29:49

slash authority comparison. But at

29:52

the same time, they're still having

29:54

real good matches elsewhere. You're

29:56

seeing you know, you're seeing some good matches in the

29:58

undercard. It's like the undercard is full of

30:00

just stinker matches Did they're trying

30:02

to develop some new talent? So

30:07

I mean I would say

30:09

aspects of like WSU but

30:11

I think fundamentally they're different

30:13

different I wouldn't say WSU is

30:15

creative. It's healthy But I would say

30:17

their overall company on the surface from

30:19

what we know from the figures that are

30:21

put out there The financials there

30:23

they're fine Whereas

30:26

WSUB was at the mercy of Time Warner and

30:28

they're bleeding money. So different,

30:30

but there's some similarities.

30:34

Greg, we're looking ahead.

30:37

We're out of WrestleMania season. Raw

30:40

ratings have gone down. Creative

30:42

feels a little bit like it was

30:44

back to before Mania. Coming

30:47

out of this show, do you see some

30:49

positives to pull out going forward

30:51

creatively, or are they stuck in a

30:53

rut creatively right now? Well,

30:56

this was a bad pay -per

30:58

-view to ask that question after

31:00

because the gimmick matches

31:03

and the way

31:05

they turned out

31:07

was not great. And

31:09

we sort of touched on how the

31:11

gimmick matches didn't help the

31:13

stories being told this month

31:15

or this year, given the

31:17

Extreme Rules pay -per -view. But

31:19

I still think there's enough there. Seth

31:22

Rollins is doing a great job as champion.

31:24

As soon as Randy Orton's been okay, you've

31:27

got Neville, who's

31:30

been very

31:32

good in the ring since his debut. Dolph

31:35

Ziggler and Seamus had a

31:37

good match. Seamus' character works

31:39

and he's a heel, so eventually you

31:41

would think that he would get his

31:43

comeuppance against one of the little guys. The

31:46

tag team match was good, so Sarin

31:48

could work well together. Sina

31:50

and Rusev have had good

31:52

chemistry, although their matches

31:54

have been getting progressively worse

31:56

since they first wrestled

31:59

at the February pay -per -view.

32:03

But, yeah, creatively

32:05

I can see where there's

32:07

frustration, and I think

32:09

there's going to be a

32:11

frustration by a certain...

32:14

of the fans as long as

32:16

WWE is intent on catering

32:18

to the casual fan and not

32:21

worrying about tying up

32:23

loose ends not worrying

32:25

about Closing even the most

32:27

gaping plot holes

32:29

Then fans will complain but they're

32:31

at a position right now

32:34

where the in -ring work

32:36

is good enough to get

32:38

them through the the

32:40

rehashed stories or the

32:46

errors that they throw out there on Monday

32:49

nights and on paper views. If

32:52

nothing else, they can sort of

32:55

hang their hat on the inter -aim

32:57

work that this generation of wrestlers bring.

33:01

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listening experience with a VIP or

33:31

Patreon membership. Yeah,

33:35

the excitement level. You know,

33:37

we look at that, you know, Ambrose and at

33:40

Harper tonight, how they had

33:42

this hour long brawl

33:44

that we only saw

33:46

about 10 minutes of it. But

33:48

I think they think that

33:50

they get a pass on if

33:53

they create excitement, excitement level, or

33:55

a title change to kind of

33:57

replace Brian at wrestling, or things

33:59

like that. think they feel like they

34:01

can do enough to, like you said, cover

34:03

for the creative issues, the heel face

34:05

dynamic, the announcers who

34:07

vary from good to not

34:09

good from show to show. I'm more

34:11

raw than paper views. I thought they were

34:14

more focused tonight, but especially raw.

34:16

I mean, they just lose focus and it

34:18

just gets really like a drag, but in

34:20

the show. But

34:22

I think, you know, they

34:25

have something I noticed the last

34:27

couple of paper views is they made

34:29

the matches feel more like an event. And

34:32

I think that's helped. I

34:34

thought WrestleMania, that was a really big

34:36

factor of why that show was

34:38

universally praised, was each match felt

34:40

like an event. It didn't feel like

34:42

it was just thrown out there. This

34:45

show, it felt like

34:47

each match kind of had a

34:49

purpose. It wasn't anything

34:51

really thrown out there. It felt like

34:53

there was a reason why this match was

34:55

happening, just the execution varies. So

34:57

I think that's really been an interesting

35:00

twist or shift. A positive. is

35:03

that you're not seeing a lot of filler

35:05

matches. You're feeling like each match has

35:07

something going forward, and

35:09

then you either like it or you don't like it. Cain

35:12

and the Cage match. He was the

35:14

centerpiece of that feud really going the last two weeks,

35:17

and know, you could take it or like it. And

35:21

for a lot of people, it's cane. It's like,

35:23

gosh, what is this, $19 .99? So,

35:26

I mean, great. Can

35:28

they at least hang their hat on the fact

35:30

that, yes, Creatively, there

35:32

might have been some trouble, but

35:35

it seems like a pay -per -view as they've finally

35:37

gone to a point where each match matters. Yeah,

35:41

and for so long, that

35:43

has been one of the rallying

35:45

cries of fans, is they're not doing

35:47

enough to build up the undercard, and

35:50

it's, you know, you hear the expression,

35:52

one match show or two match

35:54

show about pay -per -views. You don't hear

35:56

that as much anymore because they

35:58

are doing a

36:01

much better job at building those undercard matches.

36:03

If you even look at the Divas, Naomi

36:06

versus Nikki Bella, you can

36:08

track, okay, Page won the battle royal,

36:10

Naomi attacked her after the match, put

36:12

Page out of action and

36:14

was rewarded, I guess, by

36:16

getting that title shot that

36:18

she felt she earned against Nikki

36:20

Bella. You know, there

36:22

are sometimes where you put a women's title match on

36:24

a show and I can't tell you what happened last

36:26

week to build it up. And here

36:29

I am going back two weeks or

36:31

so. So

36:33

just that as an example

36:35

shows you that they're taking

36:37

more care into building stories

36:39

and specific storylines around

36:42

those undercard

36:44

secondary matches. And

36:46

I think a lot of that has to do with, if

36:49

you look at the U .S. title, and John

36:51

Cena and Rusev. Well, of course, John Cena, he's

36:53

gonna get a story. You know, he's not

36:55

just going to be thrown in there in a

36:57

match that no one cares about. So

37:00

I think that's helped too, having

37:02

him be in the undercard

37:04

and work a US

37:06

title program with Rousseau. Yeah,

37:09

I think, yeah, that's what we're looking at

37:11

in the sense that you drop down main

37:14

eventers to the midcard, and yeah, of course

37:16

he is going to get a story. And,

37:18

you know, going to the show, Brian

37:20

had a story too, former main eventer now in

37:22

an undercutting title. Holder. Yeah,

37:24

so you're right. I think when you

37:27

drop those guys down You're kind of guaranteeing

37:29

yourself at least a story for at least you

37:31

know a couple of mid -card matches on a

37:33

pay -per -view And they even managed to make

37:35

a story out of Neville and Barrett, you know

37:37

They took Barrett and Brian and and

37:39

they transferred that to Neville and Barrett

37:41

and I thought that worked out

37:43

and Ziggler and Sheamus had a

37:45

story. It was kind of awkward

37:47

It was sort of an odd

37:49

build -up in terms of the stipulation

37:52

but They had something going

37:54

for them for the post match

37:56

at least as far as the

37:58

story goes so But actually even the

38:00

match itself because Seamus you know

38:02

is doing the whole thing about

38:04

you know little fella and you

38:06

know landing the Giants all that

38:08

stuff so Yeah, that's that's something

38:10

they have going for them. So

38:12

a positive build on Let's go

38:15

another phone call next up is

38:17

the 601 area code Logo Michelle

38:19

601, please hit your name where

38:21

you're calling from. Uh,

38:24

yeah, this is,

38:26

uh, hmm. Sergeant Robinson from

38:28

Kermit City. How y 'all guys doing

38:30

this evening? I am doing

38:32

good, Sarge. I think Greg is too. What's your mind tonight?

38:35

Yay, super scenic, his

38:38

girlfriend won. Yay. Blah.

38:43

Is that all you got for us, Sarge?

38:45

It's just, uh, the scene of depression. No,

38:48

I'm like, and I'm glad new

38:50

day when it was great and I

38:52

thought of Naomi and her nice

38:54

little yacht, I forgot to mention. She

38:56

had these little light up suit

38:58

things on the bottom of her shoes.

39:01

They kept changing color. I thought

39:03

those like different color shoes, but yeah,

39:05

that was real cute. It was

39:07

okay to view it, you know, was

39:09

like another raw. What's the next

39:11

day for you guys? Cause this was like, what's

39:13

the way you say, nothing to really write home

39:15

about. Yeah, payback I

39:17

quit match Ian Russo charge. Who

39:19

says I quit? And

39:22

then My boy several doing the

39:24

RKO. I'm like, I didn't see

39:26

that coming But this is a

39:28

black black pay -per -view. I hope

39:30

everybody has fun with it Oh

39:33

by the way guys, you know,

39:35

I'll tell you about my little

39:37

favorite daughter. She was Watching the

39:39

pay -per -view with me. She has

39:41

like one little cute quick thing

39:43

to say about the level Well,

40:05

she obviously has an eye for talent if she's

40:07

already knocking the Ascension. Yeah, I

40:09

didn't see much of them in the NXT. They

40:12

were protected in the NXT like crazy. They

40:14

were fed squash matches until they got called

40:16

up. I just, I've

40:18

never always seen much from Connor, unfortunately,

40:20

so. Yeah, since

40:23

Jim and Greg have disappeared. Yeah,

40:27

I mean, Greg, with the RKO thing,

40:29

you can almost hear Michael Cole opening

40:31

tomorrow night's Raw, saying, we're coming off

40:33

a controversial main event and Seth doing

40:35

the RKO, and you just kind of,

40:37

you can already hear the opening line

40:39

for Raw tomorrow night. What

40:42

do you think is next for this? Are

40:44

they going to go into rematch with Orton on

40:46

a three -week turnaround? Do they go into the

40:48

Reigns match that's kind of sitting there waiting

40:51

for them? Of the two

40:53

options and then of that of

40:55

the two options. We're cheating is best

40:57

another Orton match are going to

40:59

Reigns Do they involve Kane and make

41:01

a triple threat? Yeah,

41:07

you know, given his actions against

41:09

both Orton and Rollins, that seems

41:11

to sort of set up three

41:13

-way more so than him going

41:15

after one or the other. But

41:17

I think, given the quick

41:19

turnaround, it would be more likely

41:21

to do Orton Rollins in

41:24

some fashion, whether it's joined by

41:26

Kane or it's a rematch

41:28

or something like that, rather than

41:30

try to get Rollins into

41:32

a new program and build that

41:34

up in such a way.

41:36

amount of time. I

41:39

quit match coming up for Rusev

41:42

and Sina. They're building

41:44

to the split, like you mentioned. Is

41:46

there going to be Lana turning face and

41:48

she throws in the towel on Rusev? The

41:52

reverse of the heel losing because

41:54

someone throws in the towel? Or

41:57

is it just Sina just wins and they move on? How

42:00

do you see that match playing? I know we're

42:02

jumping out three weeks here, but With the whole

42:04

line of situation, what do you see them doing

42:06

with seeing Rusev at payback? Yeah,

42:08

I like that suggestion of throwing in

42:10

the towel. I think she's going to turn

42:13

baby face, but you

42:15

don't want Rusev to say, I

42:17

quit, or maybe they do.

42:19

I don't know. But given

42:21

the way they've built him and the way

42:23

they've protected him, I think that

42:25

would be pretty damaging to not only have him

42:27

say, I quit, but also to have him lose

42:29

three times in a row to see not pay

42:31

per view. It's Cena, but

42:33

that's still a tall order to ask

42:35

him to dig himself out of, especially

42:38

if he's not going to have Lana

42:40

by his side, which was an automatic

42:42

heat -getter for him. So,

42:44

you know, now if it comes

42:46

to pass that he quits and

42:48

Lana is dumped soon thereafter, all

42:50

of a sudden you've got a

42:53

guy who just quit in a

42:55

match against John Cena, which was

42:57

his third loss in our own,

42:59

is now about Lana. And that

43:01

sort of... him swimming upstream I

43:03

would guess so I like to

43:06

throw him the towel suggestion that

43:08

would continue to create heat between

43:10

Lana and Rusev and it affords

43:12

Rusev's the loss without having to

43:14

say I quit and you know,

43:16

he will still he would still

43:19

have Some heat behind him because

43:21

he could say that you know,

43:23

he never quit right and he

43:25

can blame all the losses of

43:27

Lana like that's In

43:40

2012, NXT transitioned into

43:42

the developmental system and ultimately

43:45

the brand you see

43:47

today. On the Torch VIP

43:49

podcast, NXT 8 Years Back, we'll

43:51

be taking a weekly look at

43:53

this page in NXT's early history.

43:56

Join Kelly Wells and me, Tom Stout,

43:58

from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday

44:00

as we go eight years back to

44:02

the day to track NXT's rising

44:04

talents and why they did or didn't

44:06

work out, exclusively for PWTorch VIP

44:09

members. Let's

44:12

go to our next caller, Sarge. Thanks

44:14

for your call. Let's go to

44:16

the 305 area code. Next up, 305. We

44:18

say your name. Where are you calling from? Hey

44:21

guys, TJ from Miami. Hey,

44:24

DJ, what's going on tonight? I

44:26

got two quick questions. My

44:28

first question is, I

44:30

really feel like Aprimania, that

44:32

it's really on overdrive, and

44:35

you know, it's like, I mean, cruise control, sorry.

44:38

And it's like, do you feel like, I

44:40

feel like, do you feel like Taz,

44:43

when Taz jumps sinking ship, do you think

44:45

Vince is set back and say, you

44:47

know what, I have nothing

44:49

to look forward to, nothing's gonna light fire

44:51

on my butt? I'm

44:53

just going to step

44:55

back until Royal Rumble

44:57

and then be creative

44:59

until WrestleMania. And

45:01

my second thing is real

45:03

quick, is where the hell

45:05

is Wyatt? They're totally

45:08

after this. They're

45:10

hurting him. I understand

45:12

Undertaker beating him, but he's not even

45:14

in the pay -per -view. Nothing.

45:17

They're hurting him. I don't know what's going on with

45:19

this. Yeah,

45:21

they had Bray do a deal on the

45:24

pre -show. Didn't really drop

45:26

any hints, didn't really advance anything

45:28

of what he's been talking about. It's

45:32

just Bray Wyatt babbling tonight on the

45:34

pre -show, but I mean, Greg, did

45:36

they need to do more? Now

45:38

we're four weeks from Ufamania. Did they

45:41

need to do more to have him

45:43

regroup, reassess? I mean, something after a

45:45

loser undertaker or was it best to

45:47

just go away from that and Go

45:49

back to him babbling and dropping hints

45:51

about his next few like what I

45:53

don't know which the best is a

45:55

better option But what do you think

45:57

is a better option? I

45:59

would have preferred to see him getting

46:01

something right off the bat. I

46:04

don't think I Don't think

46:06

the loss to Undertaker at

46:08

WrestleMania Did a ton of

46:10

damage to him or as

46:12

much as some people think

46:15

it did but I would

46:17

have certainly gotten him into

46:19

something where he could get

46:21

over really quickly, and

46:23

he had a match with R -Truth on SmackDown

46:25

a few weeks ago, but it was just

46:27

sort of there and gone, and you don't remember

46:29

it by the end of the episode. But

46:32

I think WWE seems to

46:34

think he's most effective with

46:36

these promos, these mysterious promos,

46:38

and that he's getting over

46:40

by doing them, and when

46:42

he eventually comes out on

46:44

TV and seeks his target,

46:47

presumably Ryback. that

46:49

it will be

46:51

worth the wait. And

46:53

I don't see it as a big

46:55

deal that he wasn't on this pay -per -view,

46:58

but because he didn't really have anything to

47:00

do. Given how

47:02

he's been booked now, I

47:04

think it would have been a mistake just to

47:06

put him on the pay -per -view and put

47:08

him over a guy like Art Truth just so

47:10

he was on there. I don't think that

47:12

would have been worth much. but I would have

47:14

gotten him into something right after WrestleMania so

47:17

that he could have been on something worthwhile on

47:19

the show and sort of used that to

47:21

help him regroup after the loss of Taker. Do

47:24

you think that they

47:26

will link up Bray and

47:28

Bode Dallas, the brothers, because

47:31

you've got Bode Dallas getting

47:33

dismantled by Mr. Ryback tonight

47:35

in the buffer segment? What

47:38

are the about them linking up ray and

47:40

bow is sort of a Recovery program or

47:42

is that is both too much of a

47:44

joke and it would actually hurt Bray too

47:46

much. We are only what do you think

47:48

could they make it work? I

47:52

Think they could if they were

47:54

gonna do it. They had the

47:56

perfect opportunity tonight and they did

47:58

So I don't know what that

48:00

says unless they're going to string

48:03

out this bow Dallas Ryback thing

48:05

until Bray does eventually come into

48:07

fear, but You make a good

48:09

point. The Bo Dallas character is

48:11

so jokey and not serious compared

48:13

to Bray Wyatt. So

48:15

it would take a complete transformation

48:17

likely from the Bo Dallas character

48:19

to have them on the same

48:22

page. And I'd

48:24

be okay with that. I think the

48:26

Bo Dallas inspirational speech deal was a

48:28

one note gimmick. They played that note

48:30

and I think it's time to move

48:32

on to something else. I just, I

48:34

don't see. I don't see them

48:36

being able to pull out much more from that, unless they

48:38

just want them to be the joke. You

48:40

know, the butt of the joke every week on Raw

48:42

because they mean Sandow. Oh wait, Sandow's kind of on

48:44

his way back there, so. Never

48:46

mind. Poor guy. I

48:50

mean, no one's even thinking about Sandow now. I mean, the guy

48:52

just, they just really messed that

48:54

one up, but I don't know. Maybe they'll

48:56

recover. Was there any doubt

48:58

they would do that? No.

49:02

No. False hope for people. False

49:04

hope. DG

49:06

also brought up McMahon and

49:08

whether lighting a fire underneath

49:11

him. I mean, no

49:13

one externally is going to light a

49:15

fire. There's no promotions right now to light

49:17

a fire under McMahon competition -wise. What's

49:19

going to light a fire is

49:21

network subscriptions and the network subscriber count.

49:24

That's who's going to motivate him to

49:26

keep the product. I

49:29

don't think it's strong right now, but at

49:31

least keep the product moving in the right

49:33

direction. Kind of

49:35

a slight thumbs up, maybe a better than

49:37

a slight thumbs up. I'm still thinking

49:39

about it. I think you are too,

49:41

Greg. But it's not blow way stuff, but it's not

49:43

terrible. I

49:45

think that the network is

49:47

going to continue to motivate

49:50

him to keep people interested,

49:52

keep people subscribing, and

49:54

to keep delivering a good pay -per -view month after month.

49:57

It's imperative. They can't

49:59

keep giving away the network for free. February

50:02

and April and then you know, I

50:04

mean they just they wouldn't and they

50:06

did November or February and April that's

50:08

You know three out of seven months

50:10

have been a free month and you

50:12

just can't do that over the long

50:14

haul So I think that's what's gonna

50:16

let a fireman man is the desire

50:18

to keep the network going strong And

50:20

the anchor or the paper views that

50:22

that's the anchor for this network So

50:24

we'll see we'll see over time after

50:27

WrestleMania if they keep up and Especially

50:29

in a quick turnaround. They got three weeks until the next day

50:31

per view. So they've got to come up with a pretty good

50:33

card. So a lot of

50:35

rematches, I assume, from tonight. DJ,

50:38

I appreciate the call. Good to hear from you. Let's

50:40

go to our next caller. Next up is

50:43

the 773 area code. Welcome to show

50:45

773. Please state your name or your

50:47

calling from. Boris,

50:52

are you there? Boris,

50:56

I know you're there. I

50:58

can almost hear him, Greg. I can almost hear

51:00

Boris. You've got to learn to get

51:03

to Boris a little sooner on the show. He

51:06

doesn't last very long into it, I don't think.

51:09

Yeah, that's true. I

51:12

guess we need to just bump up to the

51:14

top of the phone call order here. Boris,

51:17

we'll come back to you, Boris. See

51:20

if you're with us. Let's go to our

51:22

next caller. 718 Erie Code. Welcome to the show

51:24

718. Please say your name and where are you calling

51:26

from? Hey, this is Mike from

51:28

Brooklyn. How are you doing, James? Hey,

51:30

good to talk to you, Mike. What's on your mind

51:32

tonight? Well, no, I thought it

51:34

was a pretty decent day with you.

51:36

I mean, better than expected, but

51:38

I got three questions for you guys. You know, I

51:40

want to hear your feedback. I know you got a lot

51:42

of calls. Um, as

51:44

far as Brian, you know, like

51:46

if he's unable to, you know,

51:49

defend the wrestle, which is hindering

51:51

him so bad being injury prone,

51:53

what do you think? Should

51:55

you think they should go with as far

51:57

as I see title? That's

51:59

one question Second question You know,

52:01

you know the launch of

52:03

G no global forces imminent and

52:05

I heard a podcast with

52:07

guns and gallows and they pretty

52:10

much into that You know

52:12

bringing the bullet club to you

52:14

know to America and I

52:16

wanted you know, we think that

52:18

would do as far as

52:20

like impacting American wrestling and What

52:23

do you guys think about

52:25

the King of the Ring? The

52:28

King of the Ring one,

52:30

I'm not quite sure what to

52:32

make of it yet, Greg.

52:34

They use the label Live Action

52:36

Show on the network. I

52:39

believe it was on Tuesday. Let me pull up

52:41

the schedule and see if they've got more detail than

52:43

this. It was kind of vague. They didn't really

52:45

say, hey, we're having a King of the Ring tournament.

52:48

They just kind of said, The King the

52:50

Rings coming back, which to me at first I was

52:52

like a tape library, you know, this could be a tape

52:54

show. I'm scrolling

52:56

real quick here. Renee Young has a new show on

52:58

Tuesday. Let's

53:01

see. It says Network Exclusive to be announced on

53:03

Tuesday night. So it's a one hour time slot.

53:05

So I mean, can you put a King the

53:07

Ring term into one hour time slot? I don't

53:09

think you can. So I don't know. I don't

53:11

really, I don't know what to make of this.

53:19

Daily cast listeners. Thank

53:21

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to both the red logo and the

54:10

blue logo. Greg,

54:22

did you get a better impression of this

54:24

King of the Ring advertisement that they kind

54:26

of threw out there on the network plug

54:28

tonight? I thought I

54:30

heard Cole say something about

54:32

having the semifinals on Raw one

54:34

night. So I don't know

54:36

what exactly is going to air

54:39

on Tuesday unless it matches

54:41

that lead up to the semifinals

54:43

and the finals. I think

54:45

having the King of the Ring

54:47

as a WWE Network exclusive

54:49

tournament and have it run for

54:51

a few weeks on a

54:53

set night would be cool. I

54:55

don't know when you tape

54:57

it because SmackDown and rock tapings

54:59

are already pretty full. I

55:02

suggested on Twitter that'd be something cool to

55:04

do with house shows. I

55:06

have three weeks of house shows

55:08

and just have quarter finals and

55:10

semi -finals and whatnot at the house

55:12

shows as you work your way

55:14

up and then air those matches

55:17

on the WWE Network, put them

55:19

all together, It would

55:21

be taped ahead of time. It wouldn't

55:23

all be live, obviously. But it would

55:25

make the house shows more enticing to

55:27

go to when you know that some

55:29

of the matches are to be taped

55:31

for the network. And it gives you

55:33

a network exclusive tournament that you could

55:36

run every couple or for a few

55:38

weeks anyway. So I'm not sure how

55:40

it's going to go. But I'm interested

55:42

to see the details of it and

55:44

the logistics of it. Sure. Yeah.

55:48

It feels kind of random. They

55:56

had recently listed a bunch of

55:58

new shows that were starting, King

56:00

of the Ring wasn't on the list that I

56:02

recall, so I wonder if this was sort of

56:04

a last minute deal. I

56:06

had the thought. I

56:08

have no idea if this is why

56:10

they did it, but a couple

56:12

days ago, I posted a flashback to

56:14

a King the Ring on Raw. When

56:17

was that? I

56:19

want to pull it up. Where's

56:21

King of the Ring? Yeah, seven years ago

56:23

on April 21st. So five days ago, I

56:25

posted a flashback. They had

56:27

a one night King of the

56:29

Ring tournament on Raw on April 21st

56:31

of 08, I believe it was. And

56:34

so I was wondering if somebody saw that and said,

56:36

hey, let's do a King of Ring. Are you really

56:38

trying to take credit for bringing back the King of

56:40

the Ring, James? Is that what's going on here? You

56:43

said it was random, Greg. You said

56:45

it was random. It seemed random, right? Well,

56:49

jeez. Yeah, I meant

56:51

random. That

56:53

was my first thought, because I mean, I don't

56:55

think anybody's saying anything. Oh, yeah, let's just keep

56:57

going and turn around. I'm just throwing it out

57:00

there. I'm not saying it happened because I'm just

57:02

throwing it out there. Yeah,

57:04

yeah, you just throw it back. Let

57:07

me throw it back with

57:09

Brian on a more health -related

57:11

note. Man, I

57:14

don't, you know, This

57:17

is all coming very interesting timing

57:19

because the publisher of his book

57:21

sent out review copies of the

57:23

book a couple weeks ago. I

57:25

just finished a book about a

57:27

thing on Tuesday and he talked

57:29

a lot about his health and

57:31

injuries and then this happens and

57:33

he misses the pay -per -view. I

57:38

don't know if all this is

57:40

injury, I mean is it career

57:42

threatening? I don't know that far

57:44

with it but Greg the injured

57:46

are piling up and they're lingering

57:48

Almost for two years now And

57:50

it's I don't know the future

57:52

is now the ironic thing is

57:55

it was almost a year ago

57:57

that He had to forfeit the

57:59

the world title Yeah, because his

58:01

one title defense was I believe

58:03

it extreme rules after WrestleMania Yeah,

58:05

if he would have to forfeit

58:07

the intercontinental title somewhere in the

58:10

next few weeks if it's the

58:12

injury is serious enough where he

58:14

would have to do that. That's

58:16

coming almost the year after he had

58:18

to do the same thing with the world

58:20

title. I

58:24

think people who watched him knew that

58:26

that style that he wrestled was going to

58:28

catch up with him eventually. Perhaps

58:32

the only surprise is that

58:34

it did so quickly. You

58:41

know, there's part of me that

58:43

thinks, okay, maybe he is hurt or

58:45

banged up or whatever, but

58:47

did WWE hold him out

58:49

for storyline reasons here? That

58:52

was something I had thought of to

58:54

play into the rumors that were out there,

58:56

because there were so many different rumors

58:58

of, oh, he got sent home for this,

59:00

no, he got sent home for this. nobody

59:03

could agree on and it was very

59:05

vague, the WWE isn't talking about what

59:07

you got sent home for as far

59:09

as injuries go. So maybe they decided

59:11

creatively to play into that and hold

59:13

them off the pay -per -view. But

59:16

then when nothing really came

59:18

of Neville versus Barrett as far

59:20

as playing into that, I

59:22

kind of threw that idea

59:24

by the wayside. And

59:26

yeah, you hope it's not serious

59:28

enough to where it's career

59:30

threatening, but if it is, Hopefully

59:33

he can walk away and lead the

59:35

normal rest of the rest of his

59:38

life. I mean that's the important thing

59:40

Yeah, I hope so Yeah, it's it's

59:42

it feels very touch and go right

59:44

now and and Mike also brought up

59:46

gonna who'd be a good replacement if

59:48

he do they do have to go

59:50

that step I say heck put it

59:53

on Neville I mean just go right

59:55

for Brian and Neville and have Barrett

59:57

be so mad about it and or

59:59

even shameless and then you'll have had

1:00:01

to chase the heels chasing down the

1:00:03

the hot young rising star and have

1:00:05

made Neville a big deal right now

1:00:08

and take advantage of that position. Greg,

1:00:10

do you see Neville or who else is a

1:00:12

candidate, if not Neville, somebody else? Well,

1:00:15

Neville, the thing he has going for him

1:00:17

is he would absolutely feel fresh. Barrett,

1:00:20

Seamus, and Ziggler are all in

1:00:22

that sort of IC title orbit,

1:00:24

I guess, but they've all held

1:00:26

it. and they've all had multiple

1:00:28

rains with it, and it wouldn't

1:00:31

feel as fresh as Neville winning

1:00:33

it. And, you know, I talked

1:00:35

about the comparisons between Neville and Daniel Bryan

1:00:37

earlier. You're just taking Neville

1:00:39

and Daniel Bryan's spot and just

1:00:41

have him continue with whatever storyline

1:00:43

was planned for Bryan, whether it

1:00:45

was Seamus taking on Bryan because

1:00:47

he's the little guy or whatever

1:00:49

like that. I haven't do the

1:00:51

same with Neville because it still

1:00:53

works to that degree. Yeah,

1:00:55

I yeah, I just keep it

1:00:58

going exactly right with that. Yeah, I'm

1:01:00

with you there My golf that's

1:01:02

about the global force wrestling Jeff Jarrett's

1:01:04

promotion bullet club Yeah, I mean

1:01:06

in the New Japan storylines Jarrett is

1:01:08

aligned with bullet club So if

1:01:10

Jarrett's gonna be on television for global

1:01:12

force for whatever television out what

1:01:15

they get or Whatever form of a

1:01:17

show they have I would imagine

1:01:19

yeah bullet club will be a central

1:01:21

part of that show because

1:01:23

Jared is aligned with Bullet Club in New

1:01:25

Japan. We just don't

1:01:27

know what television show, what the roster looks like,

1:01:29

what the show will look like. We just don't

1:01:31

know the details on that, but yeah, that doesn't

1:01:33

surprise me. I think they will probably be

1:01:35

the center of the show, whatever the

1:01:37

show. I mean, we just don't know

1:01:39

the details of the show, but I think

1:01:42

that's a pretty safe bet, yeah. Mike,

1:01:46

appreciate the call. Good to hear from you. Thanks for

1:01:48

calling. Let's go to our next

1:01:50

call, 801 area code. Welcome to show

1:01:52

801. Please hit your name where you're

1:01:54

going from. This is Derek

1:01:56

from Utah. Hey, Derek. What's

1:01:58

on your mind tonight? Just

1:02:01

my thoughts on the show. I

1:02:03

thought it was a good show, probably

1:02:05

6 .5. I thought it was

1:02:07

one of the shows where the whole

1:02:09

is better than some of its parts. Some

1:02:12

of the matches maybe slightly disappointed

1:02:14

me. Others exceeded

1:02:16

my expectations. But

1:02:18

in general, I think it was just

1:02:20

a really easy to watch. fun show

1:02:22

that kept my attention for all three

1:02:25

and a half to four hours, which

1:02:27

as an ADHD kid, that's very, very

1:02:29

rare. And as a guy who suffers

1:02:31

through raw while he does his laundry

1:02:33

and cleans this house, the fact

1:02:35

that I watched the three and a

1:02:37

half hour pay -per -view and didn't get

1:02:39

diverted says a lot for the quality

1:02:41

or at least the entertainment value of

1:02:43

the show. Let

1:02:45

me pause at that point. I think that's a

1:02:47

good point there. It did feel like it flowed. I

1:02:50

thought the show flowed really well. He

1:02:52

didn't feel like they're all big gaps

1:02:54

of dead time. I mean some of the

1:02:56

matches like the cage match and the

1:02:58

Sino -Rusa match had some dead time, but

1:03:00

it didn't feel like it was like Stop

1:03:02

two really bad or filler match and

1:03:04

real lucky son raw Greg I feel like

1:03:06

again I feel they've cleaned up the

1:03:08

paper views to where it does flow nicely

1:03:10

now you like Derek said even though

1:03:12

some matches you might say add in like

1:03:14

that The flow is there. It's moving.

1:03:16

It doesn't feel like it's a drag Now

1:03:19

they just put that over wrong and then

1:03:21

they will be clicking, but that requires a

1:03:23

lot more discipline booking. Greg, did you

1:03:25

feel the same way that even if some of

1:03:27

the stuff wasn't good or was amidst that at

1:03:29

least the flow was there or do you feel

1:03:31

differently? No, for

1:03:34

the three hours or three a half hours,

1:03:36

whatever that I watched, I thought it flowed

1:03:38

well and there was never a time where

1:03:40

I thought, oh my gosh, it's only such

1:03:42

and such a clock. But

1:03:44

I also have to say that I was

1:03:46

working on my mock draft. for the NFL

1:03:49

draft coming up this week while I was

1:03:51

watching the pay -per -view. So whenever there was

1:03:53

dead time or video packages, I just worked

1:03:55

on that. So maybe that's why it went

1:03:57

by quickly for me. I'm

1:04:06

Kelly Wells, host of

1:04:08

PWT Talks NXT, the longest

1:04:10

-running NXT podcast anywhere. Join

1:04:12

me along with Nate Lindbergh, Bruce Lee

1:04:14

Hazlewood, and special guests live every Tuesday

1:04:16

night, just minutes after NXT where we

1:04:18

cover the good, the bad, and the

1:04:20

ugly on the way to becoming a

1:04:22

star in WWE. Check us

1:04:24

out live on YouTube or stream later

1:04:26

wherever you get your podcasts. Who

1:04:36

do you have the Jags picking on a side

1:04:38

note? I

1:04:40

never go in Leonard Williams. For the

1:04:42

longest time, I held out and believed that

1:04:44

Tennessee was not going to take Marcus Marriota,

1:04:46

but in the last week, I sort of

1:04:48

come around to the idea that they probably

1:04:50

will. So,

1:04:52

if Tennessee didn't go Marriota, they

1:04:54

would go Leonard Williams, and then

1:04:57

I would have Jacksonville going Nottie

1:04:59

Fowler. But if Marriota goes

1:05:01

to Tennessee, I've taken Leonard Williams. You

1:05:04

know defense. Yeah. Yeah,

1:05:06

he's a big dude. Yeah

1:05:08

We shall see the

1:05:10

800 ,000 hours of build -up

1:05:12

finally there's a draft

1:05:14

on Thursday, is it a

1:05:16

draft on Thursday? Thursday

1:05:19

Friday Saturday and then

1:05:21

Pacquiao. It's like WrestleMania all the

1:05:23

hours of build -up finally WrestleMania. Yeah,

1:05:25

yeah And then my Mel Khyber

1:05:27

disappears for you know nine months

1:05:29

It comes out of hiding at

1:05:31

the beginning the year. Yes Derek,

1:05:35

back to you. What else you have for

1:05:37

us? Just

1:05:39

a few more thoughts. I

1:05:41

think the Roman Reigns Road

1:05:44

to Redemption project is going

1:05:46

in the right direction. I

1:05:48

think if you look at the last three

1:05:50

months, I think the rumble is

1:05:53

definitely a low point, but then

1:05:55

you have this match against Daniel

1:05:57

Bryan, where he gets some credit. And

1:05:59

then he has his match against Brock

1:06:01

Lesnar where he takes the beating and he

1:06:03

earns some more fan support. And

1:06:06

then tonight, I honestly thought he was dead in

1:06:08

the water when I was like, oh, you're going to

1:06:10

put him against the big show in Chicago. And

1:06:13

I thought, this is not a good

1:06:15

idea. But through the booking, and I

1:06:17

also think he's gotten a lot better

1:06:19

at selling where he's actually drawing some

1:06:21

empathy from the crowd. You

1:06:23

know, we're three months after the fall

1:06:25

and he looks a lot better now

1:06:27

than he did. in the middle of

1:06:29

January. So, WWE can

1:06:31

put that notch on their belt. And

1:06:34

also, this is probably the most,

1:06:37

I think this is the most

1:06:39

entertaining McCain character has been in

1:06:41

years. And it surprises me,

1:06:43

when he got in the ring, I was

1:06:45

like, oh no, oh gosh, Kane's gonna ruin

1:06:47

the main event. But what they actually

1:06:49

did, I thought was quite compelling

1:06:51

and it made what I thought was going to

1:06:53

be a predictable outcome. unpredictable

1:06:56

because I didn't think that Seth Rollins

1:06:58

would obviously hit an RKO to win the

1:07:00

match, but I thought that was interesting

1:07:02

as well. So your thoughts on that? Sure.

1:07:06

Yeah, good, good topics. Greg,

1:07:08

what do you think about Kane

1:07:10

and, you know, he's basically the

1:07:12

centerpiece of the title picture last two weeks. What

1:07:14

do you make of how, I mean, is this

1:07:16

a good use of him or is this overdoing

1:07:18

it? That's

1:07:22

a good question. I think it's a little of both. Yes,

1:07:25

and I've talked to a tricky

1:07:27

guy. Yeah, I talked with

1:07:29

the Post for all lives. He has this

1:07:31

past week about how that episode of raw

1:07:33

really highlighted King and and the story that was

1:07:35

woven throughout the show is really well done

1:07:37

for his character. And I

1:07:39

think that continued here tonight. But

1:07:42

it is a lot of

1:07:44

Kane and I don't know why

1:07:46

WWE has felt the need

1:07:48

to make him such a centerpiece

1:07:50

on the show. perhaps with

1:07:52

Triple H and Stephanie McLean not on

1:07:54

the show as much, they needed someone

1:07:56

from the authority to fill that role and

1:07:58

Kane's the guy. So

1:08:00

yeah, I think in the

1:08:02

last two weeks or so, they've

1:08:04

been doing as good a

1:08:06

work with Kane's character as they

1:08:08

have in a long time,

1:08:10

but it's still a lot of

1:08:12

Kane. Yeah,

1:08:14

it is a lot of Kane. This

1:08:19

crowd, though, they were kind of

1:08:21

into it. As

1:08:23

much as I thought the

1:08:25

match you know, eye -rollingly,

1:08:27

predictably compromised, the

1:08:29

crowd kind of bought into it. I

1:08:31

think there's some level of affinity for

1:08:34

the character, whether it's time or just

1:08:36

he's a lovable goof and they kind

1:08:38

of made a, you know, they did

1:08:40

the whole hug it out thing with

1:08:42

Brian a couple years ago. Now

1:08:45

they made him a little more sympathetic

1:08:47

as being dressed down by Seth Rollins

1:08:49

and the Smarmy Heel and like he

1:08:51

had a prisoner to the authority. Instead

1:08:54

of feeling like, gosh, just be a man and

1:08:56

step up. You almost feel sorry for the guy.

1:09:00

I don't know if it's all those, I don't know if it's just a combination

1:09:02

of things, but the crowd was kind of in the cane a little bit. But

1:09:05

again, this crowd was into a lot of stuff that you didn't

1:09:07

think they'd be into. So was kind of

1:09:10

an interesting show. Reigns

1:09:12

wrote a redemption from the rumble to

1:09:14

now have you seen it set inside

1:09:16

the mic work, which I think is

1:09:18

not approved and Greg the are you

1:09:20

seeing improvement from him in the ring

1:09:22

the way he's selling like like like

1:09:24

Derek said What's your assessment of Reigns

1:09:26

now post -Russell Mani entering that redemption

1:09:28

season? Yeah,

1:09:30

you look at the match with Daniel

1:09:32

Bryan a match with Brock Lesnar and

1:09:34

the match big show there three

1:09:37

very different opponents for him

1:09:39

in the last three paper views.

1:09:42

And all three matches, at

1:09:46

least Brian versus Reigns and Lesnar

1:09:48

versus Reigns got glowing reviews. This

1:09:50

one may be a little more hit -or -miss.

1:09:52

I thought it was good for what it was.

1:09:57

And I think people were ready to

1:09:59

write off Brian versus Reigns as all Daniel

1:10:01

Braden carried it. And then it was

1:10:03

Brock Lesnar versus Reigns and it was

1:10:05

well Lesnar carried it. But

1:10:07

three in a row now, you've got to

1:10:09

start giving him a little credit. I

1:10:12

still think, like you said, the

1:10:15

interviews aren't where they need to be. I

1:10:17

still think he's a little too one -dimensional

1:10:19

on offense, but the last three

1:10:21

pay -per -view matches have come together pretty

1:10:23

well for him, and I think it's improved

1:10:26

his stock. Yeah,

1:10:28

I still think he's

1:10:30

ready for WWE Champion,

1:10:32

but... He's

1:10:35

getting closer to there in

1:10:37

the ring Mike work though is

1:10:39

not there. He's not he's

1:10:41

not deputy champion top star Build

1:10:43

around as far as the

1:10:45

mic work goes. I think I

1:10:48

have all the whole package

1:10:50

and it's not there Has that

1:10:52

become more of a liability

1:10:54

than in the ring work? I

1:10:57

am I think so actually yeah, I think

1:10:59

they were both kind of You know, I think

1:11:01

of a lot of things in zero to

1:11:03

ten scales and I would say the mic work's

1:11:05

been at a four or five for a

1:11:07

long time and the in -ring work was kind

1:11:09

of at a five. I think the

1:11:12

in -ring work's getting toward a seven, but

1:11:14

I think the mic work's sort of five. So

1:11:16

yeah, I think the mic work is more of a liability

1:11:18

than the in -ring right now. I think you're right. I

1:11:21

don't know what else he can do. He just

1:11:23

doesn't sound natural at all. It

1:11:26

just sounds very forced. So, I

1:11:28

don't know. Maybe someone

1:11:30

else is to help them

1:11:33

with his promos besides McMahon Anybody

1:11:35

Let's go to the phone

1:11:37

call Next up is the 630

1:11:39

area code Derek. Thank you

1:11:41

for your call 630. Please hit

1:11:43

your name where you're calling

1:11:45

from Yeah, this is Adrian from

1:11:47

Aurora, Illinois. How you guys

1:11:50

doing? Hey doing good Adrian. What's

1:11:52

your mind tonight? Just one

1:11:54

thing about the The Chicago brawl

1:11:56

there so you got Harper waiting

1:11:58

in the truck for Ambrose to

1:12:00

jump through the front seat there

1:12:02

and then about a half an

1:12:04

hour later You got Harper in

1:12:06

the back seat if this falls

1:12:08

out, then you got Ambrose jumping

1:12:10

off the top of it. What

1:12:13

was he doing that whole time?

1:12:16

It's just weird exclusive later on this

1:12:18

week is the the behind the scenes

1:12:20

for I yeah, I Yeah, I was

1:12:22

I mean I really wish they were

1:12:24

gonna elaborate with this and legit had

1:12:26

some they could even made it up

1:12:28

just just go with it and have

1:12:30

helicopter footage and they've dispatched the WWE

1:12:32

helicopter, just make it up. Make up

1:12:34

a WWE helicopter and they've got a

1:12:36

shadow on them as they're driving. You

1:12:38

can see Ambrose with his arm hanging

1:12:40

out of the passenger side and they're

1:12:43

fighting. Just do something crazy

1:12:45

with it. I'm hoping

1:12:47

they show camera phone footage tomorrow on

1:12:49

Raw of them fighting somewhere in

1:12:51

the city. Like they're in the streets

1:12:53

and somebody comes up with a

1:12:55

camera phone and starts filming it. So

1:12:57

I'm hoping they show that tomorrow

1:13:00

on Raw. That'd be awesome.

1:13:02

Yeah, they should do that. Just

1:13:04

make it up. I'm OK with it. Just make it

1:13:06

up. I'll go with it. Because

1:13:08

I mean, just play into the

1:13:10

story. But yeah, Adrian, they should at

1:13:12

least have some in -between footage. Send

1:13:15

Byron Saxon on assignment to go find

1:13:17

them. Just send them off

1:13:19

and go find what they're doing. So

1:13:21

yeah, I think they could have done. I mean, it

1:13:23

was kind of fun, but they could have done more with

1:13:25

it, I agree. But small complaint. Asia,

1:13:27

what else you have for us? Oh,

1:13:30

and then two with the Cena -Russoff

1:13:32

match. They've got Lana doing

1:13:34

things that make absolutely no sense. And

1:13:36

this is like, think the second time,

1:13:38

even at WrestleMania, she just jumps up

1:13:40

on the apron for no apparent reason

1:13:42

to get involved. And then this time,

1:13:44

she's waving to the same crowd who

1:13:47

she's been spewing all this Russian rhetoric

1:13:49

for like months now and how America

1:13:51

sucks. And she's suck it up to

1:13:53

the audience there. doesn't make much

1:13:55

sense. I think they're pushing their breakup

1:13:57

way too quickly here and not giving them

1:13:59

enough time to really get over as

1:14:01

a group. So that's pretty much all I

1:14:03

got, guys. Yeah, Greg, maybe

1:14:05

she's being won over by the fame

1:14:07

and fortune of America. Maybe that's the

1:14:10

story here. She's abandoned in her roots

1:14:12

and her mission of why she came

1:14:14

with Rusev. She's

1:14:16

being Americanized. Yeah, I

1:14:20

agree with what Adrienne said. Greg, what are your

1:14:22

thoughts on that aspect of the Rusev -Sina deal? Yeah,

1:14:25

there's a way to do the

1:14:27

breakup angle that doesn't completely destroy

1:14:29

Lana's credibility as a character. I

1:14:31

think what they were doing was

1:14:33

Rusev becoming overbearing and maybe the

1:14:35

losses. He suffered a scene

1:14:37

of starting to wear mentally on him and

1:14:39

where he starts taking the mic from Lana

1:14:41

and basically pushing her into the background. I

1:14:44

think that would have been a more effective way

1:14:46

to break them up than, you know, than Lana

1:14:48

playing to the crowd, which is something she would

1:14:50

never do. Thanks

1:14:53

for downloading today's show. Take it to

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go VIP. Yeah,

1:15:33

and I know they probably wanted to

1:15:35

you know what it to me was is

1:15:37

they were afraid of the audience going

1:15:39

to business for themselves and They thought the

1:15:41

crowd be channeling see them punk or

1:15:43

Lana, you know kind of their JBL Michael

1:15:45

Cole or Loller and it's like it's

1:15:47

like they're waiting for the crowd going to

1:15:49

business for themselves They said okay if

1:15:51

the crowd starts chanting Lana you're gonna do

1:15:53

it get up on the ring apron

1:15:55

do this and it didn't happen until like

1:15:57

10 minutes into the match and then

1:15:59

it's like okay do it now and kind

1:16:02

of what it felt like, and it

1:16:04

felt so unnatural because the match wasn't going

1:16:06

that direction. So

1:16:09

yeah, it's kind of like, well,

1:16:11

maybe it didn't actually need to do

1:16:13

that, and maybe it felt obligated.

1:16:15

I don't know, but I think they've

1:16:17

got to reassess this going forward. Yeah,

1:16:20

so, I don't know. We'll see where they go

1:16:22

from here with that, but this is a good point

1:16:24

to raise, Adrian. Appreciate the phone call.

1:16:27

Let me grab an email question that came

1:16:29

in from VIPimberCody. He says, who do

1:16:31

you think would benefit most from a King

1:16:33

of the Ring tournament when? Kind

1:16:36

of goes to my earlier point that

1:16:39

it feels so randomly inserted into the program

1:16:41

that it almost feels like an exhibition

1:16:43

where they're just going to fill some content

1:16:45

on the network. But Greg, if this

1:16:47

is something that's actually going to play up

1:16:49

and make important and relevant, who

1:16:51

would benefit do you think the most from winning

1:16:54

the tournament? Yeah, that's

1:16:56

a big question. How is

1:16:58

it going to translate to WWE TV

1:17:00

time? If it's solely on the network,

1:17:02

are they going to plug it on

1:17:04

Raw? Are they going to show highlights

1:17:06

on Raw? Are they going to take

1:17:08

advantage of the winner on Raw? Are

1:17:10

they going to really push this person?

1:17:12

And I think there are a ton

1:17:14

of guys who could benefit. I think

1:17:16

everybody in the mid -card title picture,

1:17:18

as far as Ziggler, Neville, Barrett, Sheamus, you

1:17:21

can make an argument for any of

1:17:23

those guys. And then you've got some

1:17:25

lower card guys that could benefit from

1:17:27

a victory if they decided to do

1:17:29

something with them. Maybe even a Bray

1:17:31

Wyatt, a guy like Ryback

1:17:33

that could help propel him into his feud with Bray

1:17:35

Wyatt. So there are a ton of guys, but it

1:17:37

really depends on what they want to do with it.

1:17:39

If you're not going to do anything with it, you

1:17:41

might as well just have our truth with it, because

1:17:44

it's not going to matter. It doesn't matter who wins. Yeah.

1:17:48

That's what I'm curious to see how they treat this.

1:17:50

Like you said, is it going to

1:17:52

be semi -finals on Raw and then the

1:17:54

finals on Network and they run a

1:17:56

video package like SmackDown on next week's

1:17:58

Raw. Or they have the preliminary

1:18:00

on the Network and then they finish it

1:18:02

up on Raw to make it more relevant.

1:18:04

That's what I'm curious to see how they

1:18:06

actually do this. We

1:18:08

all know whatever happens on

1:18:11

SmackDown doesn't count, Greg. I'm

1:18:13

sad to say that. James,

1:18:16

I've been doing that for a long time. Trust

1:18:18

me, you're not telling me anything I go hard.

1:18:22

I feel bad. Greg does a great job

1:18:24

of covering SmackDown every single weekend. Now

1:18:27

Thursdays or Fridays on PWTour .com

1:18:29

and I feel bad when they

1:18:31

repeat the main event from SmackDown

1:18:33

on Raw and it's like, oh, Greg's

1:18:35

hard work covering it and they

1:18:37

just throw it on. It never

1:18:39

even happened. On

1:18:42

Raw when they say, come

1:18:44

up on SmackDown, a big

1:18:46

show versus so -and -so and you're like, Oh,

1:18:48

for Greg, he's got to do that

1:18:50

first thing. Yeah,

1:18:53

all Greg's hard work for

1:18:55

Big Show and Ryback or

1:18:57

Rusev. Let's

1:18:59

go to, we got one more phone call

1:19:01

and then we'll wrap it up and we'll call

1:19:03

it a post game show and I'll be

1:19:05

back on Monday night after Raw for another post

1:19:07

game show, the Raw post game show and

1:19:09

we'll see what they do for Fallout from Raw.

1:19:11

I'll be back tomorrow and we'll do one

1:19:13

more phone call then we'll wrap up a little

1:19:15

bit of VIP discussion. And then Greg gets

1:19:17

you to plug VIP here in a second. Last

1:19:20

phone call on the post game show 609

1:19:22

area code. Welcome to show 609. If we

1:19:24

state your name where you're calling from. Hey,

1:19:26

what's going on? It's Lewis from New Jersey. Lewis,

1:19:29

what's on your mind tonight? All

1:19:31

right. Well, I just got two things

1:19:33

really quick. First,

1:19:35

with the dull entire Danny O

1:19:38

'Brien situation, I I don't

1:19:40

know, when I heard about the whole

1:19:42

entire injury situation, I kind of like

1:19:44

cringed and I'm like, wow, this is

1:19:46

really going to be the last time

1:19:48

they actually, you know, like, invest anything,

1:19:50

I mean, let alone, you know, the

1:19:52

world title, but then, I mean, even

1:19:54

with the intercontinental title, you know, so,

1:19:56

I mean, I just want to know

1:19:58

if you guys think the same and

1:20:00

the second thing is speaking about the

1:20:02

titles, i .e. Do you think that

1:20:04

because of the fact that you know

1:20:06

obviously you know the number one draw

1:20:09

Cena has the US title and Daniel

1:20:11

Bryan had the Intercontinental title I just

1:20:13

want to know whether or not you

1:20:15

guys kind of like think that no

1:20:17

matter what as a result of that

1:20:19

And as a result of having to

1:20:21

put Cena on TV like Seth Rollins

1:20:23

is not getting the push that he

1:20:25

actually needs to get because I mean

1:20:27

honestly I mean I don't really think

1:20:29

feuding with guys like Kane and Randy

1:20:31

Orton is kind of giving him cool

1:20:33

points So I just want you to

1:20:35

you know you guys to elaborate on

1:20:37

those two points. All right, and that's

1:20:40

all I got. Thanks All right, Louis

1:20:42

always good to hear from you. Thanks

1:20:44

for calling. Yeah, the the Rollins title

1:20:46

reign Greg is It's

1:20:48

a tough one because he's supposed to

1:20:51

play a smarmy heel. You know, he's supposed

1:20:53

to play this undeserving heel champion who's

1:20:55

you know Got the benefit of Kane and

1:20:57

the authority though on his corner. They're

1:20:59

helping him win blah blah blah But is

1:21:01

it too much to worry doesn't feel

1:21:03

legitimate where he's almost I mean, it's not

1:21:05

like he's a you know intercontinental heel

1:21:07

champion where he loses non -titled every single

1:21:09

week on TV They're not doing that but

1:21:12

I've had that same thought the Lewis

1:21:14

has had that it feels a little bit

1:21:16

too much like This isn't

1:21:18

important. This isn't a

1:21:20

big deal that Ronald is champion and

1:21:22

his reign feels a little bit

1:21:24

too underplayed in order to make it

1:21:27

seem like he's vulnerable as champion

1:21:29

Do you feel the same way Greg

1:21:31

or are they okay with what

1:21:33

they're doing? I

1:21:35

Think that's just how they book heels

1:21:37

now. Yeah, I think that's how

1:21:39

they book top heels Any top heel is

1:21:41

going to hold the title of Glendon sheet

1:21:43

to win and he's going to use outside

1:21:46

interference to win and is rarely going to

1:21:48

defend his title cleanly, because

1:21:50

that's just how it is. And

1:21:52

I think we can go back

1:21:54

and look at the last several

1:21:56

field champions. You know, maybe

1:21:58

Brock Lesnar is an exception just because he

1:22:00

was obviously a special case, but

1:22:02

that's how it is now. And I don't

1:22:04

think, I think Seth Rollins is

1:22:06

so good in his role that he's got the

1:22:08

credibility, even if he does win cleanly. I think

1:22:10

his mic work's been really good, his

1:22:13

matches. tonight

1:22:15

have been very good, pretty

1:22:18

memorable at times. And

1:22:20

he's a guy, I think a lot of

1:22:22

the fans like to boom, but he's a guy

1:22:25

who they feel has earned his stretch and

1:22:27

they want to succeed. So he gets more of

1:22:29

the benefit of the doubt in that role

1:22:31

than some other guys get. So

1:22:33

I think it's just

1:22:35

symptomatic of how WWE books

1:22:38

top heels. Yeah.

1:22:41

I wonder if a different

1:22:43

opponent could help. I

1:22:45

think Orton's a

1:22:48

legacy star now. He's

1:22:50

been on top for a long time. Not

1:22:52

on top, but in the

1:22:55

top range area. But

1:22:57

it doesn't feel, and I think part

1:22:59

of this is also coming off of Orton

1:23:02

being that kind of similar illegitimate heel

1:23:04

champion with the authority. And

1:23:06

the way he was brought back

1:23:08

was sort of this weird circle.

1:23:12

To get back to him. You'll get revenge

1:23:14

on Rollins. I mean, I mean great. mean

1:23:16

close my mind thinking about when he came

1:23:18

back from He came back into this whole

1:23:20

thing where he was kind of with the

1:23:22

authority then he you know He turned on

1:23:24

Rollins to get the revenge and I mean

1:23:26

this match you put these guys in a

1:23:28

cage With the way Orton was written off

1:23:30

and then the way he was supposed to

1:23:32

come back and of all his vengeance and

1:23:34

I mean and the top story is Kane

1:23:36

it's not even or to get revenge on

1:23:38

Rollins So

1:23:41

I think the opponent for

1:23:43

Rollins maybe could have been somebody

1:23:45

different, but I don't think

1:23:47

it should have been Reigns. I don't think

1:23:49

you would have Reigns lose to Rollins right

1:23:52

after WrestleMania. Couldn't do that. So

1:23:54

you didn't have a lot of options. You kind of had to go to

1:23:56

Orton, but I think the story was kind of weak. So

1:24:00

I don't know. Like you said, Greg, the end

1:24:02

the day, though, that's where they book Heels. Heel

1:24:04

champions, especially. I

1:24:07

just want to point out that

1:24:09

you made it upon Colin Orton,

1:24:11

a legacy star, given his former

1:24:13

stable. I don't know if he

1:24:15

did career. I thought it was

1:24:17

worth pointing out because that was pretty

1:24:19

cool. He has become what he set out

1:24:21

not to be, I think. So

1:24:25

is he a legend to the point that someone

1:24:27

should come in and put him out of his

1:24:30

misery like he used to do with the legend

1:24:32

killer given? I think we've come

1:24:34

to that point. Yeah, I think we're there.

1:24:37

It's been 10 years, right? Yeah. Everything

1:24:39

comes full circle. It

1:24:41

does. I mean, you go back

1:24:43

to Extreme Rules, uh, was it 2005

1:24:45

when the match was with Foley? With

1:24:47

the, uh, the, um... It was

1:24:49

still backlash then. There you go.

1:24:51

Yeah. Yeah, it was 10 years

1:24:53

ago, I think. Yeah. There

1:24:56

you go. Everything happens in 10 years in

1:24:58

WWE. Are

1:25:07

you a fan of AEW looking to

1:25:09

sit back, relax, and listen to some

1:25:11

like -minded podcasters who share your passion? Do

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you want to be topped off the ledge after

1:25:16

a segment that has you wondering what the heck are

1:25:18

they thinking? Do you want to

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join a discussion on what AEW is doing

1:25:22

right and what they could do to improve? Then

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PWTorch Dailycast lineup at

1:25:45

PWTorchDailycast .com. Brian

1:26:01

and will they invest in him again? I

1:26:03

mean to me the first question Greg is how

1:26:05

much more does he have in his career?

1:26:07

I think they have to answer that question first

1:26:09

and then determine how much more they're gonna

1:26:11

invest in Brian, but yeah, it's like world title,

1:26:14

okay? Not already

1:26:16

investing you more there Eric got no

1:26:18

title. That's a safe landing point

1:26:20

Okay, what's next? You know and and

1:26:22

I don't know I don't know

1:26:25

what the next landing point is Greg,

1:26:27

but I'm

1:26:29

concerned about what's next for his career. I don't

1:26:31

know where it is. I don't know where

1:26:33

he goes next. He

1:26:35

might be the

1:26:37

one with William Regal

1:26:39

on commentary next

1:26:42

to you going forward.

1:26:44

Trainer, like you

1:26:46

said. I don't

1:26:48

know. We'll have

1:26:50

to see going forward. Greg,

1:26:53

let me give you some time to talk VIP. You

1:26:56

had a moonlighting. this weekend

1:26:58

for Torch VIP. Talk

1:27:00

about that, and what do you have coming up

1:27:02

in this week's Torch Newsletter? Yeah,

1:27:05

it was Benjamin Tucker,

1:27:07

pwtorch .com contributor, joined me

1:27:09

late Saturday night on moonlighting

1:27:12

with Parks for PWTorch

1:27:14

VIP members. He was

1:27:16

actually at the show today at Extreme

1:27:18

Roles, so if you want to

1:27:20

get some in -person tweets from him

1:27:22

at btorch for Torch, We talked SmackDown,

1:27:24

Lucha Underground, which was actually his

1:27:26

first time watching Lucha Underground. So you

1:27:28

got some impressions of someone watching

1:27:30

the show for the first time on

1:27:32

Moonlighting, which is really cool. And

1:27:34

also, it's seen an impact from this

1:27:36

past week. So that was

1:27:38

Moonlighting. And this week on

1:27:40

my column in the torsion newsletter

1:27:42

that should be in mailboxes,

1:27:44

if not now, then probably by

1:27:47

one day is a column

1:27:49

looking at the US and IC

1:27:51

titles. Since

1:27:54

WrestleMania, a lot

1:27:56

of people thought that they'd be more protected

1:27:58

with John Cena and Daniel Bryan as

1:28:00

champion. I kind of looked at how they've

1:28:02

been booked since WrestleMania and where they

1:28:04

go from here. And have

1:28:07

they been treated as important

1:28:09

as many people expected? So

1:28:11

that's in this week's torsion newsletter. Awesome.

1:28:15

Very good. Torch VIP members can check

1:28:17

that out. And I'll be back

1:28:19

tomorrow night. with the post game show after

1:28:21

all right here eleven thirty eastern same

1:28:23

time at the pay -per -view post game show

1:28:25

on sunday night and i got a

1:28:27

quick turnaround to pay back in a couple

1:28:30

weeks three weeks so we'll see what

1:28:32

happens between now and then but always a

1:28:34

pleasure thanks for me greg and i

1:28:36

go to talk to you any else that

1:28:38

you thought we should touch on before

1:28:40

we wrap up the post game show i

1:28:42

think i'm all set for this show

1:28:44

awesome very good so uh... we'll wrap it

1:28:46

up here on pdb torch livecast dot

1:28:48

com and a big shout out to Greg

1:28:50

for Jormney on the Post Game Show.

1:28:53

Thank you all you guys for listening to

1:28:55

the show and downloading us on iTunes

1:28:57

or at PWTorchLiveCast .com. Appreciate your support of

1:28:59

the show and we'll talk to you again

1:29:01

Monday night and then just a couple

1:29:03

Sundays for the next Pay Per View Post

1:29:05

Game Show. So VIP, stick around for

1:29:07

the after show. All

1:29:12

right, I'm gonna wrap up tonight's post

1:29:14

game show with a little VIP after show

1:29:16

gonna bonus email from VIP member Cody

1:29:19

and wrap up with some of his questions

1:29:21

on extreme rules I got a question

1:29:23

about the tag titles using that doubly pushes

1:29:25

the sorrow in a bigger singles role

1:29:27

or keeps him aligned with Tyson kid

1:29:29

in the tag division after they drop the

1:29:31

tag titles Tough to say. I mean,

1:29:33

I feel like they switched the belts a

1:29:36

new day is sort of a last -minute

1:29:38

thing I

1:29:40

feel like they decided that with

1:29:42

Dana Bryan being off the show. They

1:29:44

needed something to replace Bryan with

1:29:46

and they thought, okay, well, let's have

1:29:48

a title switch. I

1:29:50

wouldn't be surprised to see the

1:29:52

tag titles go back to Kidd

1:29:54

and Cesaro either tonight, Monday night

1:29:57

on Raw or the next pay -per

1:29:59

-view. I think that Kidd

1:30:01

and Cesaro have a good thing going on. I think

1:30:03

the dynamic is good. They're growing as a tag team.

1:30:05

I think even if they don't win back the title,

1:30:07

I still think that they'll be a tag team. I

1:30:10

think that they've got a good thing going.

1:30:12

I don't think it's time to break them up.

1:30:14

It'd be tempting to do so, but you've

1:30:16

got to have something for Cesaro if you're going

1:30:18

to do that. Another kid as well, but

1:30:20

mainly Cesaro. And I don't think they're ready to

1:30:22

put Cesaro in a singles program right now. So

1:30:26

I think it's best to see with

1:30:28

Cesaro and Kidd until WB has a

1:30:30

really good idea for... guys, but especially

1:30:32

Cesaro in a singles position. So I'd

1:30:35

say keep them as a tag team.

1:30:37

I think they'll put the belts back

1:30:39

on them and have them feud with

1:30:41

the Lucha Dragons. I think Lucha Dragons

1:30:43

versus Cesaro for the tag titles could

1:30:45

be a really good feud. So I

1:30:47

think that should be the long -term

1:30:50

plan. Cody asks, next, how

1:30:52

long do you think W will wait until they

1:30:54

strip Brian of the Intercontinental title if he's out

1:30:56

for a few months? Do you

1:30:58

think they could write them off with an on -air

1:31:00

injury angle or just have them forfeit the belt?

1:31:03

I think they'll at least wait after payback if

1:31:05

he's not ready to come back and wrestle

1:31:07

after payback Then I think they'll kind of strip

1:31:09

him of the belt like they did last

1:31:11

year with the award giveaway title They waited like

1:31:13

two pay per views and they decided they

1:31:15

he wasn't able to come back and they had

1:31:18

to strip him with the belt So I

1:31:20

think that they'll wait until at least after payback

1:31:22

and then decide whether to strip him of

1:31:24

the belt And if they do decide to ship

1:31:26

him with a belt, it

1:31:28

could be a situation where they just bring him

1:31:30

back on television and have him drop the

1:31:32

belt and tease retirement and then maybe do an

1:31:34

injury angle there, somebody attacks him, and then

1:31:36

he comes back in a month or two and

1:31:38

has a program to whoever attacks him, whether

1:31:40

it's Sheamus or Baird or somebody else. So

1:31:43

what's interesting is that actually

1:31:45

if they save King of

1:31:47

the Ring for maybe next

1:31:49

month, the month after, They

1:31:52

could have Brian forfeit the belt and have

1:31:54

King of the Ring be for their continental title

1:31:56

in a tournament format. They

1:31:58

could have waited that, but I guess they already had

1:32:00

this thing going. The

1:32:03

way they announced King of the Ring feels sort

1:32:05

of random as well. A lot of stuff going on

1:32:07

here, a lot of moving parts, but

1:32:10

I see maybe Brian, if they do get

1:32:12

to the point of having him be stripped

1:32:14

of the belt, I think he shows up

1:32:16

on TV and forfeits the belt. And they

1:32:18

have some sort of injury angle and some

1:32:20

other way to have a new champion determined.

1:32:22

So I just, for his sake, I hope

1:32:24

I don't get to that point. I hope

1:32:26

that he can defend the title. But if

1:32:28

he's not healthy, if he's not ready, if

1:32:31

it's a risk to him, then

1:32:33

for his sake, I do hope he

1:32:35

relinquishes the title, takes time off,

1:32:37

gets healthy, and then either decides whether

1:32:39

to come back and wrestle or retire. Again,

1:32:42

I'm not sure if they're to that point yet

1:32:44

with retirement. But his health should be

1:32:46

that I'm more concerned. And

1:32:48

then Cody asks, were you surprised not to

1:32:50

see Bray Wyatt attack someone in the beginning of

1:32:52

the new feud with the Rybacker Reigns? And

1:32:55

I thought Greg hit on this point during

1:32:57

the show, which is that if you're not going

1:32:59

to have him in a big match, I

1:33:01

don't think it was worth it to

1:33:04

kind of throw out there an attack

1:33:06

on somebody whether it is Ryback on

1:33:08

the show. I think that's something to

1:33:10

maybe save for Raw. or

1:33:12

the next pay -per -view. mean, heck, they got

1:33:14

payback in three weeks. They can save it for

1:33:16

payback and make it a big deal that

1:33:18

Bray is going to do something and advertise that

1:33:21

Bray is going to do something on the

1:33:23

pay -per -view and that pay -per -view being, you know,

1:33:25

three weeks from now on payback and actually

1:33:27

make it, you know, significant. So, I

1:33:29

think that would have been the way to go and not

1:33:31

just throw him out there, you know, just for the random attack.

1:33:34

I thought this pay -per -view was not the pay -per

1:33:36

-view for Bray to do anything significant. I

1:33:39

still think it's time to just have

1:33:41

him come down and then advance into that

1:33:43

program but Save it for when you

1:33:45

actually can focus on it and not have

1:33:47

it be sort of that you know

1:33:49

the fifth story of the show On a

1:33:51

major pay -per -view. So I'm okay with

1:33:53

that. I'm okay with the way they did

1:33:55

it saving him But yeah, the clock

1:33:57

is ticking on making them the clock the

1:34:00

clock is ticking up putting them in

1:34:02

a program that matters and They've got to

1:34:04

get to that point pretty soon to

1:34:06

keep them relevant. So We'll

1:34:08

see if Monday at a raw they actually

1:34:10

do something with them as far as attacking someone

1:34:12

to begin a program goes so Or if

1:34:14

they save it for payback or another pay -per -view

1:34:16

down the road, but we'll see and we'll

1:34:18

see what happens there But I was not surprised

1:34:20

and I don't think it was missing did

1:34:22

not have him attack somebody. I'm okay with that

1:34:25

Cody thinks of the email Hopefully we'll hear

1:34:27

from you after the post game show on Monday

1:34:29

And we'll talk to everybody again on Monday night.

1:34:32

I'll be back on the post game show

1:34:34

in just about 22 hours or so. So thank

1:34:36

you guys for your support of the VIP

1:34:38

audio section. And be sure to check

1:34:40

out the round table also here in the VIP audio

1:34:42

with Wade and Bruce and Pat. And

1:34:44

we'll talk to you again next time. So

1:34:46

on behalf of Torch Commons, Craig Parks, this

1:34:48

is Torch Assistant, James Colwell, signing off for

1:34:51

the post game show. A

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