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0:39

Morning Ellen Page on. Ah,

0:41

She got her morning voice. You all were

0:43

hoarding a couple hours early this morning that

0:45

you hear that morning rob your voice very

0:47

night and I will. I just recorded an

0:49

intro and after work for ninety night. Before we

0:51

got on, say I'm in My lady That was.

0:53

Welcome Everybody eats you about damn crime.

0:55

Every other week we bring you all

0:58

of the top stories. Sometimes they're international,

1:00

sometimes their national, sometimes they are just

1:02

things that we don't like about people

1:04

that we know. you never know. What

1:06

about the I'm Crime by Welcome Robbie?

1:08

Yeah, how are you know I'm doing

1:11

okay considering it's a Monday morning, but

1:13

the sun's out and that's really all

1:15

that matters to me Nowadays we have

1:17

a little bit a housekeeping because you

1:19

and I just did our to live

1:21

shows in New York and fill. You

1:24

with our guess Daisy Egan, Brom Grab

1:26

Bag Club and the strange and unexplained

1:28

podcast How To Go Gangbusters. I mean

1:30

it was amazing and people have lost

1:32

their minds over this case and this

1:34

was all you lose all your not

1:37

just your case that you wanted to

1:39

do with all your research. It wasn't

1:41

until the weekend before we did those

1:43

that like Ellen presented me with her

1:45

research and like a on like five

1:47

face time cause I was like wait

1:50

now listen to this we rob yeah

1:52

she's like Alan I'm going. To bed I'm

1:54

like I know one more thing. Ellen was in her robe i

1:56

thing for six days straight with like her hair tied know been

1:58

on the set of her head. I bet

2:00

you might as well as it was great.

2:02

Here's the thing, number one. we're going to

2:04

try and get that live stream for you

2:06

for sale on page three on. you don't

2:09

have to be a patron member to purchase

2:11

it, but we're going to try and get

2:13

that going hopefully by the time this episode

2:15

airs. So if you want to catch it,

2:17

you can watch it join in on the

2:19

conversation. We have a side chat on Facebook

2:21

so that there aren't any spoilers because there

2:23

is a lot to dive in. And if

2:25

you want to join the Patriarch of course

2:27

we have a level starting at five dollars

2:29

with all. Of our bonus content they are

2:31

you can get a D C every week.

2:34

We just as to speak pipe This morning

2:36

after we do our lives as Rubbia, we

2:38

have to schedule in about seven to sixteen

2:40

to nineteen. Maybe I'm gonna. I'm in around

2:43

it off at twenty. A couple more things

2:45

about Whitney and because there just wasn't enough

2:47

time to go into everything. Yeah yeah, so

2:49

I mean I don't have invented the but

2:52

it it was about whether or not those

2:54

are the death Whitney Houston and has yet

2:56

to died and just. All these

2:59

really weird coincidences,

3:01

Maybe or maybe not orchestrated? We don't

3:03

know. I mean like we're raising questions

3:05

because is all alleged said but some

3:07

of it's not facts and a new

3:10

can connect them whichever way your mind

3:12

wants to connect them but they are

3:14

some eyebrow raising facts of in here.

3:16

I think I would make a thesis

3:19

statement and I didn't really realize this

3:21

until I was done researching. Statement would

3:23

be a we'll just accepted the stories

3:25

because that was the end that we

3:28

expected of what Whitney Houston had be

3:30

com. And nobody really asked further questions and

3:32

there were further questions to ask. So have

3:34

you are in the Nashville area we will

3:36

be there July second with Hillary Burton and

3:38

we're not going to be on a time

3:40

limit their that is really for yang to

3:43

me. So yes had a time limit in

3:45

New York and I was try to get

3:47

it all and don't give me an opportunity

3:49

to keep talking about this situation but it

3:51

was great and I hear there are more

3:53

slides so you know what if you've already

3:55

seen as join us again. I think we

3:57

can try to live through it as well.

4:00

But there more in its hands. It's

4:02

not over. I love giving people that

4:04

option because we can only go to

4:06

a certain amount of places people still

4:08

want to be a part of bed

4:10

and watch. So I think live streaming

4:12

option is really, really great. We broke

4:14

the livestream length right? You said in

4:16

your we broke the livestream record at

4:18

that then here. Amazing. I love are you

4:20

as a way to us. Really exciting. It was

4:22

a relief for warm room and that

4:24

was even more exciting knowing that people

4:27

were not wearing pants at home and

4:29

listening to us on their couch. I

4:31

love that. And listen, we had a

4:33

resident cocaine expert. With us on stage

4:35

I'd that really enrich the experience for me.

4:37

It was serve. It was like a seminar

4:39

robin. Had so many cocaine class else

4:41

easier to feel like about cocaine for

4:43

twenty minutes please. I have questions. So

4:45

many so something a lot to talk

4:47

about before we jump in. Also one

4:49

of the perks on our patriotic is

4:51

when we get to do watch parties

4:53

together and essentially be one that through

4:55

our new board which gives us the

4:57

opportunity to watch things together which is

5:00

great sometimes and are watching something really

5:02

heavy. It feels sort of a comforting

5:04

to know that there are other people

5:06

watching but we also have the element

5:08

to Sat during the episode and. You all.

5:10

We can be outraged together. documentary.

5:12

Called the program last night

5:14

from Netflix, it was directed

5:16

by Katherine to blur I

5:18

think her name is and

5:20

she was a former student

5:22

of this program which was

5:24

that troubled teen repair institution

5:26

and everything she uncovered. How

5:28

fascinating was that documentary? It

5:30

was. One of the best may

5:33

Document is I've ever seen him in

5:35

the perspective because it was directed and

5:37

the protagonists. Was a woman who has limits.

5:39

You went through all that herself first hand

5:41

for she brought in all these other. Survivors

5:44

really of this program? She

5:46

was funny light hearted so on that

5:48

I think what it was as her

5:50

authenticity she was so us and tic

5:52

and it so I thought orange amazon

5:54

she called me back and I immediately

5:56

messes her blame her bags of yeah

5:58

I was yeah eyesight. I met his.

6:00

I said we. Watched it, I totally was settled.

6:02

Watch party Everybody So that's one of the best

6:05

argument is ever seen and we would love to

6:07

have you on the show. So let's say we

6:09

have to get her So ruthless back story because

6:11

I think it's very popular and Netflix but my.

6:14

F Y P and my algorithm isn't

6:16

showing me a lot of stuff. It

6:18

was about this academy of called Id

6:20

Reds which is all about the troubled

6:22

teen industry and as an operation that

6:24

was out of upstate New York and

6:26

it's marketed as the School. To

6:28

help quote troubled scenes

6:30

but in reality. The mental

6:33

and physical abuse these kids were put

6:35

through and they were made to

6:37

go through. These colt like activity is

6:39

all in the name of becoming a

6:42

better person and it was so nice

6:44

of the filmmaker. I think you're

6:46

right. I think for authenticity signed through

6:48

and this program is not special in

6:51

the sense that there are many of

6:53

them. To the whole industry is

6:55

a troubled teen industry, which should. these

6:57

words do not belong together. I mean

7:00

it's horrific. There is a multi. Billion

7:02

dollar industry. Nice types of programs

7:04

are human Eyes and and corrupt

7:07

and abusive as they used very

7:09

specific cult like brainwashing techniques. you

7:11

know. She went over the rules

7:14

and held the parents were sort

7:16

of in on it. It highlighted

7:18

the lack of credible staffing, the

7:20

weird programming, all the abuse and

7:23

it's dove into this psychological ports.

7:25

Her and I just left thinking

7:27

it was just a very well

7:30

may documenting. I feel like documentaries.

7:32

Are made so fast it was

7:34

investigative an emotional and rebutting. Have

7:36

to say if you haven't watched

7:38

that are a lot mean most

7:40

documentaries. Are made from the perspective of. A

7:42

filmmaker who is not part of the story

7:44

yes and you don't even And I think

7:46

that create some kind of separation and their

7:49

vision as they have their own vision right?

7:51

And this woman she spent ten years I

7:53

think the reason we feel the authenticity she's

7:55

like. I started this project disapproved my dad

7:57

to to that modular believe me so I

7:59

Parenthood. Leave me when I told them what

8:01

happened this week a standstill. believe of the parents

8:03

are also brainwashed by the way for the parents

8:06

don't believe him and she's like I just want

8:08

to collect evidence to prove to him just for

8:10

this on purpose and I think wonder this deeply

8:12

personal mission like it shows. Through it comes

8:14

through and I it's I mean Kathryn. My

8:16

hat's off to the For Men to this

8:19

documentary team and they did a fantastic job

8:21

and. To all the people who participated

8:23

Fps is tremendous filmmaker she has such

8:25

a great Seats are ahead of are

8:27

now you know what I was thinking

8:30

last night after we watch that it

8:32

was saw was baffling how self incriminating

8:34

the his ass was is still again

8:36

I mean it was like a so

8:39

what yeah we did torture you but

8:41

everyday to me like it was this

8:43

whatever and they left all the evidence

8:45

behind including video footage, video footage, files,

8:48

documents and see is an investigative reporter

8:50

honey see when. An Catherine you are

8:52

a queen. We got a happy one.

8:54

I have so much more to talk

8:56

about. seventy or questions. Anyway, what's the

8:58

program? Think it's at what is joined.

9:01

If you like those watch parties come

9:03

join us. It's available to all or

9:05

tears. We have a blast before we

9:07

start. Robbie I have not looked at

9:09

reviews in probably two, two and a

9:11

half year. As a slim exciting. I

9:13

can only see the first for

9:16

I don't know why on my

9:18

phone but I just wanna read

9:20

you one from Love the Ivanka

9:22

these on a limb, Eva on

9:24

car and k This actually made

9:27

me laugh out loud in my

9:29

bed last night I was a

9:31

little still nice down to it

9:33

says says occasionally entertaining but my

9:35

goodness has anyone ever worked for

9:38

a job in her life and

9:40

does she have any idea how

9:42

life works? She has extremely. Unrealistic

9:44

analysis of situations. Have I

9:47

ever worked? Never I'd see

9:49

off his had a severed

9:51

editing with my life. As

9:54

a set of. Oh

9:57

I learned a baby sitting empire.

10:00

Thirteen years or I completely believe that

10:02

I was like there are so many.

10:04

Things That People Sam, I mean I get

10:06

that and we need that on. Our suits

10:08

are marked by the way that Mertz that

10:11

has the one sars you I think that's

10:13

my favorite. Any grab one of those are gonna

10:15

grab like one of those key chains rattling. Designed

10:17

all of our designs. She did such

10:20

a good job, but she wrote a

10:22

hilarious is a hyperbolic review rooted in

10:24

reality because that is what people say.

10:26

Have I ever worked a job in

10:28

Mat? Now if I could change one

10:31

thing about me, it would be my

10:33

laziness. I don't know where it comes

10:35

from bombing to work on. As for

10:37

Twenty Twenty Five, I have never seen

10:39

anybody work as little as Allen. She's

10:41

just yeah. ever since I was I

10:44

you know, serving on Lodged pretty far

10:46

back in my. Brow. I have no

10:48

gag reflex. Now there's never time.

10:50

Ellen's our in. As all in L L

10:52

it is always work and I'm like Ellen and will

10:54

go pray and garden. She's like I'm worth and know

10:57

like. That is that

10:59

is a character flaw I I'm fixing at

11:01

Harris. Texted me the other day I couldn't

11:03

open a google drive that she sent me

11:05

and I said i don't know, it's probably

11:07

my computer, it's probably sick and tired of

11:09

my bowl said and she said he probably

11:11

wants you to not think about work for

11:13

like even an hour so even my computer

11:15

as against me. But anyway, Love Viviana Now

11:17

I've never worked. I look forward. To had no.

11:21

Part your. Another numbly was of have an

11:23

analyst me I have all this testify gonna

11:25

do. I don't like my bank records for

11:27

the last few years and the eyes of

11:30

haven't read about it but I'm trying to

11:32

adult now and I started going through the

11:34

bank records. I'm like what are these subscriptions

11:37

and ice of side and I keep paying

11:39

for and you know some of them Ellen

11:41

Adams him from place yet another way that

11:43

we could not be more different. I have

11:46

been using Rocket Money for years. Double for

11:48

subscriptions. Leading Rock if money is made for

11:50

people like yeah it. Totally as it's

11:52

a personal finance as a science and

11:54

cancel unwanted subscriptions monitors is sending and

11:56

help lower. Your bills even grow. The savings

11:59

is us. The Money and really

12:01

keep track of your finances and up

12:03

like rocket money is going to be

12:05

your best friends. Apparently they will even

12:07

negotiate to lower your bills for you

12:09

by twenty percent. Much as over five

12:11

million users that have saved a total

12:14

of five hundred million. Dollars in

12:16

cancel subscriptions. That is a

12:18

lot of fiction. Fantasy eating numbers up

12:20

to seven hundred and forty dollars a

12:22

year when using all of the app

12:25

features. Stop wasting money on things you

12:27

don't use. Don't see any Cancel your

12:29

unwanted descriptions are going to Rocket money.com/solve

12:31

the case. That ruff much South Homs.

12:34

Solve the case. Tell him again. Robbie.

12:36

I rocket my.com/solve the

12:38

case. Anyway,

12:45

Without. More idea own has

12:47

that certainly was. Enough do. let's jump

12:49

into our top stories. Take it away, Robbie

12:52

I will. Actually, this is a story that

12:54

I actually wanted to cover. Last week but

12:56

certainly doesn't more development so maybe it's actually

12:58

better. Still recovering. This weekend one of our

13:00

listeners brought it to our attention on her

13:02

Facebook group. Speaking of which, if you haven't

13:04

joined a doing it up to answer the

13:06

questions like that, humans. Are

13:08

obvious very strict about those questions. The off

13:11

she's like an owl or is he some

13:13

say this. As some more

13:15

details. As three questions anyway. Or

13:17

is this is a story about to

13:20

Oklahoma moms. Who went missing on March

13:22

thirtieth of this year ago? I have you

13:24

heard that story at all? Okay, this is

13:26

awful. It is a terrible story. Or to

13:28

him and Veronica Butler twenty seven years old

13:31

and Julian Kelly's to thirty nine of Hubert's.

13:33

In Kansas they were in Oklahoma

13:35

on the way to visit Veronica

13:37

children. She was going through a

13:39

fussy. Battle with her ex or with their father

13:41

at least. And Gillian Kelly, who is thirty nine,

13:44

was not a family member. She was actually kind

13:46

of a social worker who was. Supposed to

13:48

accompany her on these visits or

13:50

eight. They just disappeared they never came back

13:52

and a their car was sound off of

13:54

Oklahoma state highway the sound and they had

13:56

no idea like what happened to them So

13:58

the police officers are looking. Ironically children

14:00

were living way that their grandmother,

14:02

the paternal grandmother so the saw

14:04

others mother. There's. Was of me this one

14:06

place as gas station or something? And it

14:08

was. The court unapproved like this.

14:11

Visitations and. They were visiting because she's gonna pick

14:13

up a six year old daughter and her daughter's. Birthday and

14:15

her eight year old son. Okay, so sad when

14:17

applied. To do tell us why she doesn't have

14:19

custody. I don't know the details of the custody

14:21

issue as a my understanding is advices with a

14:23

visitation set up in a lot of times of

14:25

stuff. Is under seal. It's not that something that's

14:27

gonna be unless the family themselves devices know if

14:29

there was like a history of violence or anything

14:32

I'm gonna say yes and on the way that

14:34

we don't really know the details of why she

14:36

has provided as if their children may. Have issues

14:38

that you can pick them on so she wasn't

14:40

just gonna visit them to pick him up and

14:42

it was daughter's birthday so the grandma's like all

14:45

she's never made as i dunno what happened so

14:47

when the police on the car as the blood

14:49

inside the vehicle doesn't blouse or the vehicle and

14:51

initially they clinton signed the body is my understanding

14:53

is a. Custody battle was contentious. they

14:56

were going back and forth and

14:58

ten days earlier the mom butler

15:00

had filed a petition for more

15:02

visitation rights and actually wanted full

15:04

custody of the kids. Okay services

15:06

the kids love with Grandma's things

15:08

where I've gone great with Butler

15:10

and for his grandma and about

15:12

a week later for people get

15:14

a rusted okay in connection to

15:16

the case now initially reports and

15:18

and in. The new said that two bodies of

15:20

in sound they didn't identify the Middle East and and. See.

15:22

How were what? Why? When but when

15:24

the for people were arrested it

15:26

was. of the grandma or boyfriend

15:28

and to acquaintances. It turns out

15:30

of the grandma of the grandma's it turns

15:33

out of his grandmother and I'm assuming this

15:35

is kind of how they figured out what

15:37

happened. She had bought three. Prepaid cell phones

15:39

before meeting the mom and all three were

15:41

found at the area would. Butler's car was

15:44

found abandoned so the please sign sounds like

15:46

well we gotta figure out who bought the

15:48

sounds olives. Grandma? even a grandmother. I never.

15:50

Met. Them And then they showed. Some

15:52

cell phone pings in a cell. Things

15:54

always get people in trouble to a

15:56

property that was owned by a man.

15:59

Who knew the. This family's name is Jamie.

16:01

Be a slave to the police as a ham

16:03

and they'll. Eyeball, What's one on on your property?

16:05

How come there's like their cell phones? Lives here

16:07

and. He's a flaw. I don't albert

16:09

like her boyfriend. The grandmas boyfriend least

16:11

some property with me and he grazes his

16:13

cattle. He doesn't sit on the property. For

16:15

she told me the he's i do some. Concrete work

16:17

there. so they go. And they start looking

16:19

at and they realize that concrete have been moved in the.

16:21

Area. Where there was a soul

16:24

and then dogs and then sell back

16:26

in the country. Well guess what about

16:28

his recounts? Both the bodies were found

16:30

in that concrete cell. And the grandma

16:32

as confessed she's like yeah I killed them

16:34

and all of these people were in on

16:36

it with me. The boyfriend had the bodies

16:38

and the other to the affidavit I've seen

16:41

has not specified with the other to his

16:43

involvement are. But there are four people

16:45

unsolved. Oh. His actually saying that dad

16:47

wasn't in. Their lives. The mom had

16:49

struggled with Stubbs substance abuse and was

16:52

clean. Now that his voice, how. Did

16:54

she tell them they were shot?

16:56

She about size sundance at a

16:58

store. Of at a week earlier. And and

17:00

some excessive amount of stun guns on some

17:02

than that Macys sun on once. Wouldn't somebody

17:05

flag Five Sundance they also found as one

17:07

of the some guys on the sites but

17:09

my understanding is that they. Were saw

17:11

killed, but I don't know for

17:13

sure if that's exactly how they

17:15

were killed, but. That would match up

17:17

with the blood evidence to probably since she

17:20

confessed. did she give a mode as I

17:22

mean she says she was arrested april thirteenth.

17:24

She says he was responsible for the women's

17:26

dad is She said that there will be

17:28

hearing. From the up April seventeenth which was

17:30

a few days ago Butler had the opportunity

17:32

of a hearing to be given unsupervised visitation

17:34

with children and eventually maybe full custody of

17:37

see I guess had shown that she was

17:39

inside clean to to grandmother. Have something to

17:41

hide once the grandmother worried about being under

17:43

investigation. Wouldn't you wait to see what

17:45

that court would say before you do murder

17:48

and then you have a boyfriend has like

17:50

in on it with you and I support.

17:52

Acquaintances understand. These are in. This

17:54

reminds me very much of the murder clan from

17:56

the Greg Lance case I covered. There's certain families

17:59

and groups of people. Where their

18:01

mind goes to. These types of things?

18:03

quickly? you don't? I mean like where violence

18:05

is is what they choose on the regular.

18:07

And I don't know is is a grandma

18:09

also had been under criminal history or anything

18:11

like that. It's not clear what she getting

18:13

money from the state to take care of

18:15

the kids were see receiving aid you not?

18:17

probably? I don't know. That's not enough. she

18:19

didn't want that money to stop. I mean

18:21

you that she just didn't want to give

18:23

up her to add the grandkids. I mean

18:26

like by a wouldn't you wait to see

18:28

what the court said? What of the court

18:30

was like not right and now you're in

18:32

jail and are you still don't have the

18:34

kids right now The mom gets the kids.

18:36

It wasn't a well thought out. Plan. For. Sure,

18:38

because I was, you're going to kill them as

18:40

or when they're coming to visit you. Basically you

18:42

don't I mean like they're out of their own

18:44

state, are coming to visit you and they disappear

18:46

is not well thought out. It would have been

18:48

better thought out if you had done it like

18:50

where they live, not a day. They were coming

18:52

to access the civically to meet you. So. She

18:54

confesses I'll be no trial so when as

18:56

her sentencing none of that has been set

18:59

yet she has said she's responsible for that.

19:01

The said that his children i don't think

19:03

this been any adsl formal sleep physicist news

19:06

from yesterday that came in an affidavit yesterday

19:08

I think she saw to be indicted and

19:10

then an indictment she. Would see one where the

19:12

other litter and who knows. I mean like you know

19:14

is if she gets wired up and the lawyers like.

19:17

Know she takes about two dozen do that. I

19:19

mean like anything can happen. That's what I'm wondering

19:21

is too subtle awful tragic story for these children.

19:23

I mean yeah you're not in their lives, matter

19:25

what reason you were doing and and you're fucked

19:28

up. Had magic Center Aren't gonna be without kids

19:30

and a minute ago I just that other mom

19:32

gets another mom. doesn't get them. The mom's gone,

19:34

the mom's gone, the grandmother's gone to father's gone.

19:36

everybody's gonna know I wait as soon as you

19:39

said that I didn't wanna be callous and I

19:41

like this Mom did die right ascent. We are

19:43

recording three. Hours earlier than I'm normally used him

19:45

as hideaway get yes known as the So alum

19:47

where are the kids and and I'm guessing other

19:50

words of say that as pointless as I don't

19:52

believe this there's any other know the family's been

19:54

mentioned and I haven't seen reports mention of where

19:56

the kids are right now. so at the whole

19:59

thing is is awful. In scary and also

20:01

support woman was just doing our job

20:03

poses going along. She's appointed to go

20:05

and visit these kids. She was a

20:07

member of our church. wiser the passer

20:09

always. the kids are the ones who

20:11

loses out they're gonna sell may be

20:14

into foster care Sound sunset that's so

20:16

sad and so unnecessary. What was this

20:18

woman's name? Again the one who lost

20:20

her life. Run. Of the butler

20:22

was a mom and Jillian Kelly

20:24

buzzer supervising numb acquaintance. While.

20:27

Robbie out. Considering we don't always see eye to

20:29

eye on, that's what do you think her punishment

20:31

should be? I think she should. I think of

20:33

life in prison and means that you look at

20:35

the pictures, you the book, computers, And digital a

20:37

great but. Yeah she's not a good life in

20:39

prison. not like this was premeditated every supper the way

20:41

like she planning this she'd been looking up gun stores

20:43

on a phone and as where the boyfriend who covers

20:45

up I think it all depends. I mean if if

20:48

you if he was part of the plan to actually

20:50

murder them or that was like us sit you kill

20:52

them know that covered of I think that it's all

20:54

kind of like depends but he seems. Just as

20:56

culpable to me because he any

20:58

and he. Saw it out like how to get

21:00

rid of the bodies hit. Also spoken the property owner and

21:02

told them oh yeah he's got this machine. There at

21:04

with them is what it's called as halls

21:06

a a skid steer. It's one of those things

21:09

that digs right is that when the he had he

21:11

had that. Machine on the property like kind of

21:13

ready to go and the like so I think both

21:15

of them are paying an end up getting i'm life

21:17

in prison. I don't have the ability of the of

21:19

the other two. I am not sure what their involvement

21:22

was. Okay this is my story I

21:24

just want to ask you are really

21:26

quick question actually I'm on Friday you

21:28

know what happens and slam. On Friday.

21:31

This Past Friday? Know? I have no idea.

21:33

I. Was. In Ben Taylor Swift dropped

21:35

a surprise. I heard about this

21:37

see release this trap called thank

21:39

You Amy and Amy As sell

21:42

the A I am He and

21:44

she capitalized six hey and think

21:46

you and me I admit am

21:48

in Amy and every one promptly

21:50

noticed that the capitalized letters spelled

21:53

out scam and you know see

21:55

and him hard ass and have

21:57

been feuding since two thousand and

21:59

sixteen. In fact, and. Forth in involved

22:01

con yea all the South Dakota yeah I

22:03

really funny moment the song as play it's

22:06

a big succeed Hm and some people are

22:08

like that over at it happened a long

22:10

time ago and Taylor said is like yeah

22:12

but it still hurts me she still a

22:14

bully It's a fantastic song as he didn't

22:17

know to part as and bullying I'm so

22:19

that away from this world and no idea

22:21

of how did you hear the song know

22:23

the audio that I put in the research

22:25

packet of Kim Kardashians Calling Rage say about

22:28

Whitney Houston Know says you look at my

22:30

research pack. As diseases all the hyper

22:32

lens and that such as eighty five

22:34

thousand of them since she got raids

22:36

and was like good luck with old

22:38

had Whitney and us really quickly. One

22:41

lyrics it's interesting and one I just

22:43

want to get your opinion on bro

22:45

quickly. So basically in the song she

22:47

says and one day your kid comes

22:49

home singing a song that only us

22:52

to of is gonna know is about

22:54

you Serious The gag. Her daughter loves

22:56

Taylor oh I'm Adam how does it

22:58

or not know or is not care.

23:00

Maybe she doesn't know whether know like this

23:03

is what people are talking about on the

23:05

internet and it's a little true crime. Me:

23:07

there's another direct about the feud and the

23:09

beef in it says. He.

23:22

Is. Everyone. Knows that

23:25

my mother is insanely woman that she is to

23:27

say she wished that you were dad. I pushed

23:29

each. Other up a hill your words are

23:31

still ringing in my head. And Do Not

23:33

cross Taylor Swift. This doesn't away. Yeah, yeah

23:36

yeahs, Try therapy. Try sit out to

23:38

don't try Taylor Swift. Don't do as you're

23:40

never gonna win. But some people think that

23:42

she crossed the line by saying my mom

23:45

wish to your dad what do you think

23:47

about that I think it's okay to say

23:49

because he's not a mean there's a contacts

23:51

here rights. He's saying that my mom who

23:54

the same even my mom like you were

23:56

so terrible the someone like my new push.

23:58

My mom says that. That's how much

24:01

you tormented me and my mother

24:03

and I listen if I were.

24:05

But we both have daughters and

24:07

we. I. Know that if somebody torments my

24:09

kids to a certain level I might. I

24:11

might wish your dad to am I was

24:13

something as you some terrible happens you ioc

24:15

the bears? Yeah, don't have ever. I'm a

24:17

variety I know. so you know and this

24:19

is happening. On a play and in

24:21

the public as try having such an

24:23

impact. I mean somebody. With a profile

24:26

liked him, her-and something after you I can imagine.

24:28

With that were didio. I mean so I. Thing

24:30

as okay. Jenna in that shot is tearing

24:32

Taylor a new one. She said that sees

24:34

the definition of victim mentality lesson. We can

24:36

all victimize ourselves. but Taylor's I'm I'm making

24:39

billions of dollars off of that. I just

24:41

thought it was really interesting. Listen to that

24:43

song and let me know what you think

24:45

I'm here for at because you know what?

24:47

I don't get over sit easily. Using the

24:49

first release. From her new album is the

24:51

Song about Kim Kardashians And Athletically are Now.

24:54

I don't know if it's the first song of but

24:56

okay, thank you. Amy I have time for

24:58

at. Because I can hold a grudge to tailor

25:00

on a pair of and happen in two thousand

25:02

and Sixteen. I'm so mad of people from two

25:04

thousand and Sixteen assembly. You Anyway, I'm

25:06

sorry. Ruby.

25:09

I would. You com is high stress person

25:11

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25:13

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25:17

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25:19

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25:23

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25:25

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25:29

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now at Target. I

27:05

give you an update on the

27:07

Brian Poll Burger case. Have you

27:09

heard about this? No, I didn't

27:11

tell me something or I Franco

27:13

Burger former Phd student. He was

27:15

charged with four counts of first

27:18

degree murder, one count of felony

27:20

burglary in the connection with the

27:22

fatal stabbing Most of us Kaylee

27:24

Gun Coffees Madison Mcginn asean occur.

27:26

Not all and essential been. this

27:28

was the Idaho murders that happen

27:31

in November of Twenty Twenty Tail.

27:33

Here is the news. That came

27:35

out on Friday. The lawyers for

27:37

Brian Cold Burger filed document outlining

27:40

his Alibi Brain Coworkers defense team

27:42

says there is no way he

27:44

was near the murder scene. The

27:47

defense lawyers say they have secured

27:49

a cell phone. Data experts who

27:52

well allegedly show that poll worker

27:54

was nowhere near the house in

27:56

Moscow, Idaho where at the force

27:59

you to. Were killed on the

28:01

night in question. They play him that

28:03

he was driving to a remote area

28:05

because he was gonna go star gazing

28:07

because ever since he's been in school

28:10

he hasn't had time for his passions

28:12

which are hiking and star gazing. So

28:14

they say that he was driving and

28:16

a remote area at that night move

28:19

and that his cell phone data hobbling

28:21

their backs up this story say say

28:23

that they plan to use analysis of

28:25

cell phone data to show that he

28:27

was not near the crime scene as.

28:30

They actually go as far to

28:32

say said he was driving in

28:34

the opposite direction. Soon pike and

28:36

run and see the moon and

28:38

stars on the missing the that

28:40

which they say he's done on

28:42

several occasions. More over Robbie are

28:44

you ready for this? The new

28:46

filing claims that his phone contains

28:48

numerous photograph taken on several different

28:50

late nights early mornings including in

28:52

November depicting the night sky. Now

28:54

they don't say that he has

28:57

pictures from this night, but they

28:59

are saying that. We combat thought

29:01

this is something that he frequently

29:03

did. Just as a reminder, investigators

29:05

have this crime say that at

29:07

to Forty four Am he was

29:09

seen on surveillance footage as well

29:12

on Washington State University B C

29:14

he was traveling north on the

29:16

south east side of the street.

29:18

They have all of these very

29:20

specific locations as to where he

29:22

was and the defense says they

29:24

can prevent as wasn't his car.

29:27

I mean. There is nothing

29:29

more innocent and. Normal than taking

29:31

Darius in the middle of the night

29:33

by yourself. I have follow up questions,

29:35

but what are your thoughts? Okay, I

29:37

have not seen the surveillance footage that

29:40

the state is using as evidence against

29:42

him, but the defense must. Be a

29:44

mean. it must not be clear enough that you. Can

29:46

make out the tag is why I'm guessing for

29:48

so why is also villains for this shit? I

29:51

don't understand this. We're in the Bureau of Not.

29:53

My lord, But your Lord. Two thousand, Twenty four.

29:55

Why can't surveillance footage Just be clear? Why

29:57

Is my cell phone from ten years? Ago

29:59

take better video footage than surveillance. That

30:01

so I always had question. Like in

30:03

my mind, every time the surveillance footage

30:06

involved. In any case, this is really

30:08

fascinating actually to me because. I mean

30:10

of his pictures specifically from that night and definitely

30:12

every one of our pictures has like has like

30:14

the bio tags it L A G O tag

30:16

the Sees male tell you exactly where you are

30:18

when you took at the time and date in

30:21

a battle the ease establish his they can show

30:23

that his son at like two forty five am

30:25

that night was literally in an entirely. Different

30:27

part of you know the region. That's

30:29

gonna be really hard to overcome especially if of

30:31

it's a surveillance that as a shit in I

30:34

mean and you know it's to seem because there

30:36

are on the i have not This is some

30:38

of public information. To really know you know enough

30:40

about the case. Make an educated in l decision

30:42

about whether or not he's guilty at this

30:44

point. obviously has a month trial hasn't been

30:46

on yet and I taught us are kalan

30:48

about the senior season investigators. And on or so

30:50

before number times. And she's also, she's like it's too. Early

30:52

as we don't know enough and too early to know. When

30:55

he maintains his innocence, this is not

30:57

just a case of like he's held

30:59

in, only like he's not taking a

31:01

please, she's not in a he's these

31:03

a guide not do this and there

31:05

are people who believe him. Oh yeah

31:07

yeah there are entire group Facebook groups,

31:09

reddit groups. I don't know why they

31:11

jumped on the bandwagon so I have

31:13

a couple. Maybe because maybe test to

31:15

them there isn't enough evidence to show

31:17

that he did you have? I do

31:19

believe that there's forensic evidence involved in

31:21

this right? Like definitely got to him.

31:23

There was not like nice cease. And

31:25

sept I have a class sense.

31:27

so we're sixteen months out. Seventeen months

31:29

out or something is the reason that

31:31

he didn't provide an alibi sooner

31:33

because he was arrested shortly after the

31:36

crime. My compromise: After the crime, he

31:38

was arrested. Why didn't he do with

31:40

that? So this is a two

31:42

part question. Number one: Because if I

31:45

was innocent of something, I would go

31:47

to the moon and back to prove

31:49

that I was innocent. I would

31:51

do my Pm desk to recover any

31:54

kind. Of footage that would confirm

31:56

my alibi. but here's what now

31:58

work the be almost two years

32:00

out there's no way it or

32:02

I don't actually really know like

32:04

the streets of Idaho would have

32:06

a cctv going back that far

32:08

because if they have all of

32:10

this evidence that puts him in

32:12

an entirely different location was it's

32:14

a state sitting back and being

32:16

lied to me that a bring

32:19

me be evidence the it's on

32:21

you to prove this case. Why

32:23

did they withhold this alibi information?

32:25

Do you think it was a

32:27

pack? Get to say let's see

32:29

what their. State comes up with and

32:31

then we're going to hit them with

32:33

a zinger. Why wait why not say

32:35

no I wasn't there will be look

32:37

again of his i'm not and done

32:39

deeply into like to understand have investigation

32:41

what forward but I'm guessing when he

32:43

was actually interviewed, interrogated. By the police that he

32:46

did tell them that I wasn't even there? I don't

32:48

know. If she could have the instead of

32:50

verbal he said that when the police believe they

32:52

have this effect and they do not want to

32:54

click with a call bad evidence that would hurt

32:56

their theory then they will actually avoid looking for

32:58

the evidence. I could prove that they're suspect is

33:00

innocent. I have seen this happen in many cases

33:02

where they're like, you know what he's saying, he

33:04

was excised the we're not gonna look for anything

33:07

that actually prove that we're just gonna look for

33:09

it. It's very possible he might have like many

33:11

defendants are many suspects Be like no I didn't.

33:13

I. Was your excellency? The police are trying to get

33:15

you to break. Their interrogating because they really think

33:17

you're the one who did it and they're looking for

33:19

any cracks. They're not gonna be like oh, Are

33:22

bad. We're going to go look for evidence to prove. That

33:24

we got it wrong. Why do they wait

33:26

that long? If they do find evidence that

33:28

contradicts their timeline and they withhold that from

33:30

Discovery Bomb. I guess he'll do that all

33:32

the time. I will. People do that all

33:34

the time. but right now they're still and

33:36

discovery. That's kind of like with the position

33:38

they're in right now. So they have been

33:40

withheld anything if they had for example, cell

33:42

phone records that the defense in have access

33:44

to. That proves this guy is likely innocent

33:46

and they would held. It's one thing that

33:48

this is evidence that he can get himself.

33:50

Said the even if they would held it that's not a

33:53

Brady by it's kind of Brady violation When the prosecutors as

33:55

as. It's not a violation because the

33:57

defense access to it independently. I'm guessing

33:59

the descends. The reason that we haven't

34:01

heard about this before is because it's something

34:03

that could have come up and conversations between

34:05

council, but procedurally you have to wait for

34:07

the right time in pleadings. Tis forward that

34:09

I have these witnesses and I have this

34:11

stuff and I have this south number one

34:13

number two months now to give an alibi.

34:16

I can see that I can see that

34:18

I'm in Nyc know not to give an

34:20

alibi he might have given the alibi, but

34:22

to prove the alibi, To get the documentation

34:24

to prove the alibi syncing is absolutely in

34:26

the first time. I've heard that he was

34:28

star gazing and even some. Kind of runner

34:30

hi cart mean he pisses never come up

34:33

the world. Everybody knows that I'm a stargazer.

34:35

Yeah visiting yeah Definitely a defense will always

34:37

way to see what is the state's case.

34:39

What does this song as evidence against our

34:41

clients? What is the case They're making what

34:43

is a timeline of events are laying out

34:46

because that's how you then decide what your

34:48

defenses gonna be any could the that? I

34:50

just took this long for them to get

34:52

to the point where like now we know

34:54

for sure exactly what the state is that

34:57

how their been a is going to play

34:59

the trial and. What their been a claim you

35:01

know that that the timeline of events and how this

35:03

all went down so know had to send him So

35:05

yeah sometimes it is police were teasing decision it's not

35:07

like as late or anything like that and frankly I'm

35:10

surprised that we've and sometimes you don't hear this of

35:12

so the trial comes out right like they just hold

35:14

on. To their cardinal trial comes up Miller

35:16

Boom oh. This witness this witness wasn't even there that

35:18

night. I mean like you know this might be a play.

35:21

In fact, I'm surprised at it's part of any kind of

35:23

public bleeding because they could have held onto to trial and

35:25

it could be that they had offered this to the sadness.

35:27

It's like we don't give a crap we saw think it

35:29

was him. Maybe he'd talk to someone. Into somebody's car

35:31

and that part in L. One for a drive right?

35:34

On know because I'm guessing the other first time to

35:36

stay to seeing this evidence might. My guess is that

35:38

this is. A play for them

35:40

to get some public support. For

35:42

like ten a turn the narrative publicly. Otherwise

35:45

in most cases defense doesn't waste of the

35:47

trial to inability to send their client and

35:49

to bring and to attack the evidence the

35:51

state is going to present. So I think

35:54

this is. Probably to send away for them to

35:56

the have to try to change the public's heritage

35:58

before they get to trial. That for

36:00

his alibi though the court asked him to

36:02

provide his alibi. Okay, I mean I don't

36:05

know why. I guess Jamming, you're right, why

36:07

wouldn't just like come out which is also.

36:09

Strange. I mean because I've never had a

36:11

judge do that The judges us as we assigned to

36:14

have lost this is not assigned or fact that we

36:16

are in any of this so but I don't Exactly

36:18

how things are playing out in this courtroom or with

36:20

as court with this just as he works. Ok,

36:22

let me ask you something. is the cell

36:24

phone evidence is legitimate right? and at to

36:27

forty five am his cell phone is in

36:29

fact nowhere near the crime scene was happening

36:31

to you? You're saying the opposite direction. Yeah,

36:33

I wouldn't. I mean to you what you

36:35

think is that strong evidence of his innocence?

36:37

Maybe. But I also don't know enough about

36:39

the forensic evidence. Found all of that information

36:41

because his phone could have been with someone

36:44

else because there were like two hours that

36:46

were unaccounted for and I believe was between

36:48

three and five am. Something like that? Don't

36:50

come at me, I'm I'm just guessing from.

36:52

My memory but he could have fun

36:54

and and drop it in the woods.

36:56

Driven in our some way and an

36:58

hour battery now so I don't Now

37:01

yeah that versus the weight of the

37:03

forensic evidence they have which is gonna

37:05

be that whatever dna or whatever sound

37:07

on the evidence and then this footage

37:09

they're still saying it's still was offline.

37:11

it's but they're saying is because he

37:13

was in an area that didn't have

37:15

serve as or it. Here's. The deal This

37:17

week's I'm going to finally do a little bit of a. Deep.

37:19

Dive on this case because I have really to spread diseases

37:21

every time I talked to. The pros: would you like Sarah

37:23

another investigator Still like it's too early. It's too early. We

37:26

don't know it's too early. Some like I'm okay. I'll leave

37:28

it until it's not to raise and I'm going to go

37:30

and see. Whatever public documents available, I really want to

37:32

talk about this more. Indepth. Next week it was

37:34

a Venmo Twenty twenty. Do I feel like

37:36

we were knee deep in Murdoch stop? Quite

37:38

frankly it seems so cut and dry when

37:40

we heard I was like oh they got

37:42

the guy far I mean there are people

37:45

who live and breathe this case right now

37:47

it is like there's some benet yeah because

37:49

in this this is not the. Early nineties

37:51

or late eighties when I know like

37:53

you know have side I for every

37:55

time eating. These guys got the guy

37:58

now. There is so much more evidence of it. Well

38:00

friends, little including like cellphones doesn't like

38:02

n n the forensic evidence of testing

38:04

is so much better we know it's

38:06

actually it's not like blood splatter evidence

38:08

we're not relying on as much friends.

38:10

A craft that we did in the

38:12

past where you can be skeptical about

38:14

at Iowa, feel much more confident in

38:16

and arrests. That takes place. In

38:19

this. Day and age. Then something that happened

38:21

like twenty years ago. Thirty years ago because it

38:23

was shit out. Of. And I'm just wondering

38:25

who this expert is with the cell

38:27

phone data. I mean, I'm riveted. I'm

38:29

in Boston. I think we definitely should

38:32

both reinvest some time into it because

38:34

he was all over the news this

38:36

week and that he had an alibi.

38:38

I was like an alibi. you say

38:40

say more. He looks really creepy. A

38:42

hundred percent. I know I was. Really

38:45

sad yeah but what is he was

38:47

out there and there's as and there's

38:49

another explanation for how his dna.on something

38:51

that might be the murder was really

38:54

no. Fuss, Let me, let me. let me do

38:56

summer. Recess. I'm a little for every public sussman available and

38:58

then I'm gonna come back in a week. Or right? You

39:00

heard it here. deep. Dive on Coburn next league.

39:02

All men are guilty. says. Rachel thanks for

39:05

it's are. Medical

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Id I am the Me my in this view

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all I know we have liquid I be in

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what is your next sorry Ravi as

40:34

I actually have to updates on our

40:36

couple of innocence cases. Are near and dear

40:39

to my heart, but one is a very, very

40:41

well known one. Invested in the Damien Echols case,

40:43

the West Memphis, three his Knees or bought both.

40:45

Good pieces of news. So. Damien was

40:47

one. Of three young boys who young man

40:50

who was convicted of murdering three little boys

40:52

and Ninety Ninety Four and of the triple

40:54

murder and. You know him. After serving

40:56

eighteen years, him and the other two

40:58

young men were released pursuant an alford.

41:00

Plea for those who don't know an alford plea As when

41:02

you say. I am innocent. However, I

41:04

admit the state has enough evidence to convict

41:06

me. This list This This happened after just

41:09

eighteen years of constant a pallet litigation. I

41:11

they were and finally the state broke down

41:13

and said we will offer you an alford

41:15

plea. They do not do that in every

41:18

case. Damien Echols was going to die. I

41:20

was married closer and you know people will

41:22

faults Descendants for taking an alford plea because

41:24

it's still a guilty plea split. You want

41:27

to get that lies and get back to

41:29

me? Yeah, eighteen years, you know you don't

41:31

want to die in there Any. How I

41:33

feel like it's the equivalent be like fine, I'm

41:35

sorry. You know when someone like the apologizes in

41:38

an argument but you know they don't mean I.

41:40

You know I'd find. I mean a system is

41:42

so as like you know people who maintain their

41:44

and since the thirty years ago for parole and

41:47

unless they admit guilt the kids get out and

41:49

then it's a of innocence claim that undercuts that.

41:51

So it's like this look. It's like the situations

41:53

we put people in in this dumb system. Any

41:55

I I hate the alford plea. I think it's

41:58

bullshit. It's the state's turning the screws. On

42:00

people. Just because they can also saying

42:02

okay we're we're longer I mean it's I

42:04

just hit it so much I feel like

42:06

it's the states being Cd has a know

42:08

they fucked up but they don't want to

42:10

admit they fuck.that's what I mean Anything fully

42:13

exonerated them. If they said if they fully

42:15

exonerated them then the boys could detect are

42:17

the descendants could they could see the state

42:19

they could sue people for for their wrongful

42:21

conviction for the can't In a situation like

42:23

this, cars are guilty and I think it

42:25

is very admirable that they do continue to

42:28

fight because they're like not only do we

42:30

want the. Truth to come out and the

42:32

killers to be found. But we don't want

42:34

out of jail, we want to be exonerated.

42:36

I was like the guys who were convicted

42:38

of killing Malcolm X that didn't even though

42:41

they were well out of sale. Still getting

42:43

that exoneration is so important. I mean and

42:45

you know frankly, that's just as for the

42:47

victims right? And so when you have a

42:49

defendant who is like to the dna testing

42:52

do the dna testing, do the the A

42:54

testing. To me that's a real that's a

42:56

big green flag slowing me as it's this.

42:58

defendant is like like leave innocent because. There's

43:00

only mean defendants who don't want the Dna

43:03

has a snowy that ask yourself why does

43:05

on a seat want dna testing one of

43:07

the website it so they've been fighting weight.

43:09

Sorry to interrupt on that. You know who

43:11

else doesn't want dna testing? Oh yeah I

43:13

know with the guy who do that. Terry

43:15

Hobbs Terry Hobbs Terry Hobbs this one was

43:17

like alien on of a day I'll I'll

43:19

I'll have we only has a Dna that

43:21

dna find out where it as Meanwhile the

43:23

West Memphis they are like nope no past

43:26

at please do at least in my life.

43:28

If you don't know about this case you

43:30

should watch. List of Memphis I was. Every

43:32

documentary I'm in paradise losses great was on

43:34

first ones but West Memphis is the best

43:36

seller and then Bob Ross also has done

43:38

a lot of investigation the case and so

43:41

it's a second barbara coverage on it. Anyhow,

43:43

It's been almost thirty years thought Ruff even

43:45

says to watch other coverage. Fab Ruff says

43:47

I am so close to the geese and

43:49

he is now good friends with Damian. Yeah

43:51

he's like I get it. if you don't

43:53

wanna listen to me I would wanna listen.

43:55

Yeah me either because he so close to

43:57

at even Bob Ross says to go Watts

43:59

west of Memphis and that other information if

44:01

he wide says he's not bias and that's

44:03

fine but I liked that he calls that

44:05

I will look I watched west of Memphis

44:07

I watched was to Memphis and what Two

44:10

thousand nine or ten any of I watched

44:12

it the whole thing in one night. Amy

44:14

Bird directed at I turned it off and

44:16

I thought I mirrors at eleven thirty at

44:18

night and family was asleep when I thought

44:20

that's the best damn investigate documentary I've ever

44:22

seen. I need an investigative journalist helping a

44:24

large case either. My laptop a half an

44:26

hour later and.and has was are Canucks like

44:28

literally West Memphis propelled me and. Then all these

44:30

years later, Amy I was hired to make our documentary

44:32

so it was as like with is one big

44:34

circle. Of life. But anyhow. so Damien was like

44:37

that. You know it. And so there was some

44:39

dna testing done earlier, located like and on about

44:41

ten years ago. This and dna testing. Dna testing

44:43

as as old a lot and the last ten

44:46

years in a dna testing know the boys dna

44:48

with sound by the way on the evidence like.

44:50

On the under victims shoes and shoe laces

44:52

and stuff because they were hog tied with

44:54

his shoelaces. Said this potentially a lot of

44:56

dna there. but the dna testing that was

44:58

and then was ah the em back testing

45:01

and and that testing could pick up touch

45:03

dna which again that's what demons like. So

45:05

they're dealing with a salad. But here's the

45:07

state argued just it does. It wasn't sound,

45:09

doesn't mean they didn't do it. Okay so

45:11

now demons like I want to touch the

45:13

I want the and that dna testing done

45:15

on this the prosecutor in the case of

45:17

been fighting this for years. Okay they've gone

45:19

only up to the supreme court, the Arkansas

45:21

Supreme Court Because here's the argument the prosecutor

45:23

makes makes which makes my. Head want to

45:26

explode. He goes. this, Dna testing is

45:28

done Will hurt the evidence. That said,

45:30

they're saying that if we do this

45:32

and that dna testing, it'll hurt the

45:34

obvious. What are you preserving the evidence

45:36

for Then asshole. What does it for?

45:38

If it's not to get Dna off

45:40

of it, what do you want to

45:42

hold on a that shoelace for? I

45:45

mean, like it's absolutely mind boggling. and

45:47

but anyhow, the Intermediate Appellate courts ruled

45:49

against Damon and said know you're already

45:51

out of prison so you can have

45:53

Dna testing done because by the. Way

45:55

every single say. it has a Dna testing statute

45:57

that allows people who are incarcerate it to ask

45:59

to request dna testing in the case. It is

46:01

not bread the right for it. You can just

46:03

petition for it which will cost you a whole

46:06

lot of money. See that, Afford the lawyers. You

46:08

can't get public defender to do this for the

46:10

private lawyers. Do it and than the state's gonna fight you

46:12

for years. but. In this case the lower

46:14

court said no Damien you're out of presents

46:16

a you don't have the right. However the

46:18

Arkansas Supreme court decides he absolutely does have

46:21

the right to do this dna testing and

46:23

it's a big big when If they do

46:25

have that testing and all those shoe from

46:28

those little boys returns dna from the person

46:30

that we suspect is it out culpable here.

46:32

To me that should be a full exoneration

46:34

but even as a case like that only

46:37

the states and decide only the prosecutor the

46:39

turns out and side okay it's of where

46:41

he that were going to expunge. The alford

46:43

plea and actually exonerate them. Even an A case like

46:45

this is the what's the most frustrating a case like

46:48

that if they finally have a dna and not not

46:50

the wasn't the three boys dna the sake of be

46:52

like all hair doesn't mean you didn't do it. that's

46:54

what the seat of the non dna testing hey Mike

46:56

nothing for another like that made him do it. I

46:58

mean literally so it still might not mean that are

47:00

the get the exoneration they want but they would get

47:03

it in a sense of like the public. Yeah

47:05

I mean publicly. I think this

47:07

case divides t Thought this is one

47:09

of those cases. This is a Scott

47:12

Peterson. This is a zombie needs. The

47:14

cases are highly debated and you're right.

47:16

I feel like even beyond the exoneration,

47:19

the court of Public Opinion is also

47:21

very powerful. But you're right they they

47:23

try phone call when love breads. There

47:25

was no evidence against was except for.

47:28

Their own coerce false concessions.

47:30

That said no into singly this court the

47:32

Arkansas Supreme Court which is a panel southern

47:35

Judges for Rules and savor three rules against

47:37

it was a close call and I want

47:39

to read a couple passages from the Descent.

47:41

Just as Barber Webb said that the court's

47:43

ruling obliterates any sense of finality in our

47:45

criminal justice system. This concept of finality and

47:47

the criminal system makes me want to punch

47:50

my own face. And what is the rule

47:52

of finality dishonorable is a concept that you

47:54

know what the seat goes to. All this

47:56

is the the descent the it gets due

47:58

process. He's tried by jury of his peers,

48:00

everything has done been done right and we

48:03

reached a conclusion. See what finality we want?

48:05

Don't want us to drive on and non

48:07

at the cost of taxpayers at the cost

48:09

of victim families of the cost of victims.

48:11

By now it just means is. put it

48:13

away Robert in a bow and puts. But

48:15

that's not how reality works because we don't

48:18

get it right all the time. We get

48:20

wrong all the time we exit we have

48:22

executed in some people it could just be

48:24

a difference. And Juri, you can have young

48:26

people on a jury you don't know how

48:28

to tie their fucking She. Is. A

48:32

jury of scholars and scientists and highly

48:34

intelligent people like this so hit or

48:36

miss. My thing as us. any time

48:38

a state and authority that has the

48:41

capacity to test Dna and doesn't do

48:43

it is red flags. There's no explanation

48:45

other than you don't want the truth.

48:47

Absolutely my favorite story about this is

48:50

when they're like, can we test the

48:52

evidence I like, oh that evidence or

48:54

down And then they're like, wait, what's

48:56

behind this door and are like not

48:58

the evidence you're asking. About and now I

49:01

can You just open the door and then they open

49:03

the door. Ah,

49:05

See it once. that evidence. Bang it.

49:07

I didn't know you meant that evidence.

49:10

For that I gotta go two thousand

49:12

and nine. It was run by of

49:14

Falcon Barrel of Monkeys. Like a barrel

49:17

of monkeys. they open the lid and

49:19

they dislike. And

49:21

they tried that fucking case. There are

49:23

so many Sussex they did at. If

49:25

somebody can look me in the eye

49:28

and say that that case was tried

49:30

to. I will

49:32

institutionalize you. You're crazy. I'm not agreeing

49:34

to that but also miss a prosecutor.

49:36

If you have such conviction in the

49:38

convictions than use it because I'm Ellen.

49:40

Test is the eminent as exams. You

49:42

let let em that everything possible and

49:44

with them to come back with Damian

49:47

all over are so low you spirit

49:49

of debate know it's all good. Let's.

49:51

Go. Yeah, you want to go. Let's day. I

49:53

know they're wrong. They know they're wrong and they're

49:55

gonna get this. Different is Sue and I hope

49:57

they do. I hope Damien and the others get

49:59

ten. The millions of dollars but this

50:01

whole issue about evidence being discovered later

50:03

moved on to thousand. Nine that all the

50:06

evidence that a nutcase have been burnt or have

50:08

been damaged in a flood in a warehouse. I.

50:10

Flatter a fire up there. So many flags

50:13

and fires around. evidence. Whistle polite and fire

50:15

protect those rooms much better. I find out

50:17

what turned out all the evidence was they're

50:19

not as there but in excellent condition and

50:22

that takes me to. The other update on

50:24

a given us a decent Terrell case in this

50:26

case in New Hampshire and it was the final

50:28

investigative case I did for undisclosed. Horrible cases.

50:30

the case in which Jason's own mother

50:32

was a police officer who forced him

50:34

coerced and we have audio of that

50:36

concession to the young kid nineteen years

50:38

old into confessing and then taking a

50:40

bath. But the audio his. Mother coming

50:42

down on him as a police officer

50:44

because you wanted to impress all the men

50:47

in her precinct is just heartbreaking. It's

50:49

a great. The State versus Jason tell you can

50:51

listen to it on undisclosed an and Brooke did

50:53

their season two on it but only after we

50:55

just had to do some. Carroll has been trying

50:57

for years to get dna testing, but the problem

50:59

is there like wheels are no evidence we don't.

51:01

Got no evidence. Will will desolate a boxer sound of the

51:03

year and a half ago of evidence and. Then this

51:05

past December honor the boss. A sound

51:07

of evidence that they said they didn't

51:10

have all these years including the nice

51:12

used to kill they believe the victim

51:14

and clothing from the victim the has

51:16

blood stains on it said this is

51:18

kind of really pertinent evidence. Now for

51:20

a over year Jason has been trying

51:22

to get dna testing done on all

51:25

the evidence. This is the newly discovered

51:27

and the Attorney General's office has done

51:29

like know we're not gonna do it,

51:31

were blocking it Now A very surprised

51:33

reversal of their position happened. This past

51:35

Thursday the attorney's office all the most in

51:37

saying that you know what, We're no longer

51:40

than to oppose the dna testing. I know

51:42

it sounds so ridiculous like why should they

51:44

but it's of seventeen months for Jason team

51:46

to get them at the Innocence Project. I'm

51:48

of New England is representing him by the. Way, they're the

51:50

people I worked with, but most officers, the

51:52

state reserves the right to challenge the import

51:54

or significance of any analysis, including but not

51:57

limited to potential contamination from the handling of

51:59

the evidence of. The that so they're like

52:01

giving themselves at a little bit of a person

52:03

which of course make sense that they have stopped

52:05

opposing it and I was talking to some. Folks

52:07

in New Hampshire who are in the know yet. Is

52:09

a tiny state is a tiny so meaning

52:11

all the lawyers know each other, the prosecutors

52:13

and defense council or best friends. They literally

52:16

actually had this. kind of like they would

52:18

always say like in the legal circles we

52:20

don't have innocence cases here. Which means by

52:22

the way is this evidence comes back and

52:25

it points. To who I believe did at which

52:27

we talked about in the series and I think

52:29

it's so obvious who killed the for women Churn

52:31

Johnson the victim she was. Pregnant she was stabbed

52:33

terribly in lust and a construction site is

52:35

it comes back to point it at that.

52:37

Suspect is Jason would be the. Very first

52:40

person in New Hampshire to be

52:42

exonerated basically using Dna evidence. So.

52:44

New Hampshire's this far behind You think? they're. Like a

52:46

real kind of progressive Satan. Other ways I'm

52:48

but they're like we'll ever get it wrong.

52:50

Close to get it wrong the fact that this

52:52

in twenty twenty four twenty five twenty five when

52:54

of this happens would be them first time to

52:57

exonerate somebody is a damn same. I just means

52:59

there are so many other people who have been

53:01

screwed and me Hampshire has not looked at them.

53:03

But one last thing I asked this person in

53:05

the know why do you think the sudden reversal

53:08

and I didn't what I suspected that there's no

53:10

reason for the reversal. I mean there were just

53:12

telling the that the. Bed. That that

53:14

that kind of like what you expect every prosecutor's office

53:17

holders opposes Dna Evidence is happens all the time. Apparently

53:19

it's because that legal community so small and all

53:21

the lawyers in the stay at everybody is listening

53:23

to this case and following it. And on top

53:26

of that because it's such a big deal for

53:28

any have had habits. First exoneration may be that

53:30

there was so much. Pressure that they're like

53:32

sign they gave in to the pressure

53:34

of the colleagues. It seems like. Because

53:36

it's just made him look so bad in

53:38

light of everything they've been presented publicly that

53:41

the guy's likely innocent. It's interesting that you're

53:43

talking about New Hampshire because I had dear

53:45

friend of mine now is actually pitching a

53:47

new podcast to a bunch of people and

53:49

it's all about Pam Smart Moon. It's not

53:52

about her guilt or innocence, it's a bout

53:54

that she should be out of prison as

53:56

the other two guys are young and I

53:58

heard her pitch episode and it is fascinating

54:00

and a talks a lot about New Hampshire

54:02

and their old school ways and they're digging

54:05

in their heels and it being such a

54:07

tiny state, I really hope he gets picked

54:09

up because she has been in touch with

54:11

Pam for years. Yeah, that's crazy in law.

54:13

You spoke to her, didn't know I think

54:16

you were a collector's that we didn't Actually

54:18

yeah, she spoke to Rebecca of his successor.

54:20

but as a New Hampshire of you have

54:22

to hear the way she lays it out.

54:24

it's brilliance you like. I'm not here to

54:27

go back and forth. Yeah, I'm here to

54:29

tell you that. The people who actually killed

54:31

him or out and Pm smart as out

54:33

and exhausted all of her appeals. It's bananas.

54:35

Why hope it gets picked up by? This

54:37

is a very exciting development. For us, because

54:40

you know how we have like seventeen eighteen

54:42

defendants under our belt. An undisclosed has somehow

54:44

worked on to help bring home. But Greg.

54:46

Lance and you know what? when? Where in

54:48

Nashville for arson next? Life So July Second

54:50

and third. Also is the hearing for the group

54:52

A D N A position that Greg Last has filed.

54:54

He was an undisclosed case. so these. Are to

54:57

potential more to more defendants from

54:59

undisclosed that potentially dna testing could.

55:01

Give them exonerated in the near future. Fingers

55:03

crossed as you can make. As and as you

55:05

can make it article feel tennessee still I second and

55:07

third. Per month for drugs. Well

55:11

I for one Robbie I am

55:13

so happy to talk about the

55:15

snack Fans are Shopify ensnare and

55:17

we just went on for and

55:19

we just launched from Arts and

55:22

you better believe we saw the

55:24

all of our flight paths that

55:26

he is through. Shopify from La

55:28

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collection it actually in sore online

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and ashley.com actually said alleges home.

57:04

I'll see my other case for next

57:06

week, but I wanted to give you

57:09

a little local. True Crime physicists really

57:11

been shopping my hide. So one of

57:13

my dear friends he's a listener. her

57:15

name is Carrie, she has his daughter

57:17

Chloe and Chloe I posted she makes

57:19

these amazing pro se animals I should

57:22

have brought one down to show you

57:24

see is the sweetest, most adorable kid

57:26

there from this tiny town in Colorado

57:28

with like six people or something as

57:30

the My friend Terry was telling me

57:32

that their high school didn't mean girls.

57:35

The music all which is a

57:37

really like fine young pop in.

57:39

I was excited they get the

57:41

rights to that. So anyway this

57:43

is local true crime because so

57:45

freakin pretty paper dispenser of a

57:48

man puts to the editor actually

57:50

man I'll tell you is a

57:52

jaw hell wag to the paper

57:54

as if anybody asks him. was

57:56

like talking shit about these little

57:58

theatre Kill my. A

58:00

shower and he was talking about how

58:03

long it was and about how bad

58:05

the show was which you're entitled to

58:07

have your opinion on Any kind of

58:10

are given people too much power and

58:12

too much entitlement to think says they

58:14

have a say if he was saying

58:17

how the kids were saying obscene line

58:19

see said quote the juice was not

58:21

worth the squeeze because the juice was

58:23

rotten and his saying. These kids.

58:26

Saw this letter to the editor of

58:28

as Awful Editor That letter Also Editor:

58:30

what is wrong with you? That's a

58:32

very good point actually just being I

58:34

love freedom of speech. He said know

58:36

when you're in a letter to the

58:38

editor not every letter gets published. very

58:41

select one get published or that's an

58:43

asshole published. it's a very small town

58:45

of my friend was telling me about

58:47

that I wasn't sure. Crime Go: because

58:49

you think you have some first amendment

58:51

rights. Go for the theater Kids Last

58:53

kids are weird that we're all weird.

58:55

It's. Weird to be weird with at

58:57

what does he want would have ten what is

59:00

it does he want is money back? What if

59:02

he wants he wants his money a good

59:04

am I go attention but he heard all these

59:06

kids feelings of very protective of theater nerds weird

59:08

as a side effect of be an awesome okay

59:11

Chloe and all that it or nerds listening of

59:13

Salt with gets on and starts talking shit about

59:15

kids are you much as we need a nap

59:17

and a pathetic all to quote days each

59:19

again and as saying is that static is the

59:22

only word that comes in at so sad like

59:24

what has run as know life that is pathetic.

59:26

I would lie about what's his name

59:28

console Hell wagged exactly as a perfect

59:31

name is your app. Hell of a

59:33

wag eighty a double Hockey sticks. E

59:35

w eg ie. or it. I don't know

59:37

what I did as but all of them

59:39

up. As soon as you to looks like I

59:41

love you theater nerds Chloe I would have it

59:44

triggered him in some way. What is going on?

59:46

I don't know if your mama see curse but

59:48

fuck that guy Anyway casey gimme some He is

59:50

that. Rabbit.

59:54

Out with some good news. Keep in Basra that hasn't

59:56

given birth and I am. I have had it would

59:58

Charlotte. I just want that out. There, I'm

1:00:00

not, I'm on disability and let

1:00:02

any more in it's quest. My

1:00:05

good news today is coming from

1:00:07

Florida, I'm not going do Florida.

1:00:09

In Pine was county deputy deal

1:00:11

constant. Received a call on Friday

1:00:13

from a resident. Now what's the

1:00:16

deal? Works in the inner close

1:00:18

to waterways of Florida but this

1:00:20

resident called and said there was

1:00:22

something wrong with a man a

1:00:24

T and I guess it's very

1:00:27

normal for manatees to swim to

1:00:29

sell the water. And to sort

1:00:31

of partially breach themselves during mating season.

1:00:33

So a lot of times you know

1:00:35

dell well get these calls and of

1:00:37

course check on them and be like

1:00:39

it's fine. You know they're just do

1:00:41

and you know their to do unless

1:00:44

the lord one of them to do

1:00:46

and that's manatee meeting I guess. but

1:00:48

that's not what happened. So with out

1:00:50

missing a beat down bitch gel leapt

1:00:52

into the shallow water to say this

1:00:54

man a t that was struggling to

1:00:57

breathe. She was literally. Macys are

1:00:59

huge by the way. they're like sea

1:01:01

cow. There's huge. Scale and sees whole

1:01:03

thing as the man a t in

1:01:05

her arms because they're manage he couldn't

1:01:08

get enough oxygen is just got in

1:01:10

the water at she stayed there for

1:01:12

about two hours were of the thing.

1:01:14

Okay so the minute he couldn't keep

1:01:17

its head above water and the think

1:01:19

it was suffering from this toxic exposure

1:01:21

to something called the red tide of

1:01:24

which I had to look up a

1:01:26

slap an algae second poison Manatees pierce

1:01:28

the scary part of the story. some

1:01:30

math he didn't know what was going

1:01:33

on so it got agitated out of

1:01:35

fear right tried to drown know she'll

1:01:37

com since who was thrown out on

1:01:40

loan at the mental is in his

1:01:42

head of em sock and at yeah

1:01:44

panicking. Also say they were able to

1:01:46

transport them and a t to up

1:01:49

marine life mammal care facility if the

1:01:51

manatee is expected to make a full

1:01:53

recovery. Spear are only about thirteen thousand

1:01:56

manatees left in the world. About six

1:01:58

or seven thousand of them live in

1:02:00

Florida even at the risk of drowning

1:02:02

and being probably scared because this thing

1:02:05

is huge see literally read old this

1:02:07

man it's here to help bed and

1:02:09

to say that that is so brave

1:02:12

because it could take you down easily.

1:02:14

See how big this thing as? Oh

1:02:16

yeah I mean like nobody's having here

1:02:18

manatee but listen they are hundreds. And

1:02:21

hundreds of pounds and I think they have teeth. I don't

1:02:23

know. I be scared enough. I could do it. Would you

1:02:25

do it Ellen? would you to. I think you jump. In

1:02:27

to Save the Manatee yeah I was

1:02:29

either like a cast slim I can

1:02:31

swim side of no I don't think

1:02:33

the manatees Keith I think they have

1:02:35

feelings but they are feuds and she

1:02:37

actually radio did they have a feeling

1:02:39

is as yes they have teeth are

1:02:41

growing I think that's okay. I don't

1:02:43

think they're like sox I don't think

1:02:45

they're like pages are I yell grinding

1:02:47

p this what they say Chill was

1:02:49

quoted as saying assist me in a

1:02:51

T is gonna die right in front

1:02:53

of us and I'm lot letting that

1:02:55

happen. So. Marine. Mammal Seaver

1:02:58

Kill com said you are

1:03:00

are something. That.

1:03:06

Said forget that great still prefer

1:03:08

you. All. For join us on this

1:03:10

week's episode of About the A Crime. Remember

1:03:12

you can catch about the I'm Crime every

1:03:14

week over on Rpg. I'm just get a

1:03:17

pizza and.com/robbie or and Allen you can find

1:03:19

all sorts of goodies. Their asserting had just

1:03:21

five dollars a month to support us and

1:03:23

our creative ventures. We've got Mertz their to

1:03:25

know he will be back next week with

1:03:28

Jon Cryer. Also at next week I want

1:03:30

to talk about the episode that you did

1:03:32

without me your I'm okay I was just

1:03:34

on tour and it's really hard to schedule

1:03:36

or three people let alone for work. Or

1:03:39

by Robbie at you did a great job without

1:03:41

me. If you are listening right now and you

1:03:43

have not given us a review number one I

1:03:45

do have a job I've always had a job

1:03:48

to. You don't have to write that review but

1:03:50

please give us a five star review. It really

1:03:52

helped us in Algorithm It doesn't do start so

1:03:54

in any as I read them until just the

1:03:57

other day but it just help other people find

1:03:59

our podcast. Our upcoming support us raw the ask

1:04:01

they can join. Our facebook group was as the private

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group look for Robbie and own Solve the case and

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we are The food that has. Us or picture

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in the banner you can find. Us on so

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souls follow us on Instagram. Ah Robbie

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and Allen and yeah, we're active mostly

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on Facebook and Instagram so that's where

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you can find us. We love hearing

1:04:18

from you when you share our staff

1:04:20

it just sends it as the world

1:04:22

and we are always so great Boss

1:04:24

until next week I are obvious. Island

1:04:26

and have you guys. Are

1:04:31

that out of the shower? As

1:04:33

I was cleaning off the mirror

1:04:35

and I saw singers pushing through

1:04:37

my window. A seamless, very

1:04:39

demonic Any don't like the release

1:04:41

that the boys he says a

1:04:44

headed up that way and my

1:04:46

dog parks and I looked over

1:04:48

and he was probably twenty feet

1:04:51

away. For me walking straight towards me.

1:04:53

See her phone after he had

1:04:55

told her to add. Me on

1:04:58

facebook. I'm Jamie

1:05:00

Bb and I'm sure deptula where the

1:05:02

host of strictly socking breathe road stories

1:05:05

of those who survived the hands of

1:05:07

a stalker. The any stories and more

1:05:09

listens to Fully stocked in Miami.