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case ad-free on Amazon Music.

1:14

Download the Amazon Music app today. Hi

1:17

Rabia. Hey Ellen. It's Thursday

1:19

already or Wednesday for our Patreon.

1:21

Do you know our Patreon gets a double

1:23

drop a full day earlier?

1:26

Lucky folks, man. Yep, they get it all. If you're

1:28

here on Wednesday,

1:29

happy Wednesday. And if you're here on Thursday,

1:31

happy Thursday, which I used

1:34

to call Cosby Show Day. Did you watch the

1:36

Cosby Show when you were little? Yes, it was.

1:38

We loved it. We rushed home for it. Yeah.

1:41

On Thursdays. So speaking

1:43

of the Patreon, we have

1:45

a Patreon. It is up and running.

1:47

And I I think that we should call

1:50

our Patreon the jury box. Oh,

1:53

I like that. You do? I do like

1:55

that. And then they can deliberate there too. Yeah.

1:58

So join the jury

1:59

box.

2:00

do we like it?" And then I was thinking like our

2:02

patrons could be called like I just want to know Ellen

2:04

literally just dropped this on me. There was no consultation.

2:07

She's like, this is just how it's happening. What if you were

2:10

like, no, I hate that and I hate

2:12

you. Why are you still talking? I

2:14

just do whatever Ellen says. All

2:17

right. So it is settled with absolutely

2:19

no deliberation. It just came out of

2:21

my mouth. Insert dirty joke there. Yeah.

2:23

The jury box. Yeah. That's a dirty

2:26

joke came to my mind when when I saw both of those mics in your face

2:28

at the same time. I was like, what's happening in your studio? I'm

2:31

sorry. I'm a little tired. Wait,

2:33

I have to take a picture of this. Hold on, I'll post

2:36

this on the Patreon. This is Rabia and

2:38

her dirty joke. Okay, here we go. Wait, you can't even see

2:40

the whole unit. Oh yeah, you can actually. No, you can see well.

2:42

So join the jury box. All you

2:45

have to do is go to patreon.com

2:47

and search Rabia and Ellen. And there you

2:49

will find three tiers, everything

2:51

from bonus episodes to ad free episodes

2:54

to monthly Zooms with Rabia

2:56

and I, which we have scheduled.

2:58

We have our first monthly Zoom. When is

3:01

it Rabia? Our first live

3:03

Zoom just for our patrons is gonna

3:05

be this Friday, April 14th at 6

3:08

p.m. East Coast time. I'm excited.

3:10

That is the highest level of our

3:13

patrons. There's all kinds of stuff. Discord

3:15

access, there's also a SpeakPipe episode.

3:18

And what I really love about Zoom is we can

3:20

see everyone and talk to people.

3:22

It's not like when we're on a live. So our $15

3:25

tier gets you also

3:27

our monthly zoom. So if you

3:29

are listening to this on Wednesday or Thursday,

3:32

we're going to be chatting with you April 14th

3:34

at 6 p.m. Eastern. Yeah,

3:37

you guys got nothing going on. Come join us,

3:39

man. And we will record it and put

3:41

it on the Patreon just in case you are not

3:43

able to join us and you will be missed. And

3:46

we are knee deep in planning

3:48

our live show. Let me tell you, Rabia told

3:51

me yesterday, She said, Ellen, I've

3:53

never really done a live show. And

3:56

I'm not a performer. You are a performer.

3:58

This is what I'm showing to.

4:00

the world. I do keynotes, I do

4:02

commencements, I give lectures,

4:05

and Ellen, I think, is gonna make me do cartwheels.

4:08

I don't know what's gonna happen. She's like, I

4:10

mean, when I first heard the things you have planned,

4:12

I'm like, holy crap. I am gonna be like,

4:15

people would have pelt

4:17

eggs at me, but come watch it. Come

4:19

watch it. I was like, Robbie, two things. Are

4:21

you a soprano or an alto? And what's your

4:23

top note? I'm just, I'm writing out

4:26

a couple charts. We are planning lots

4:28

of special things for you. Holy moly.

4:30

She thinks I'm Joey Toronto.

4:32

She thinks I'm Joey, not Joey. May 4th

4:35

in Atlanta. We really hope you will join

4:37

us because this is not going to be our last

4:39

live show, but this is a one-time only

4:42

thing. This is a really great special guest.

4:45

So we have some great special guests. Can

4:47

I tell you a secret?

4:48

Somebody told me that maybe, maybe

4:51

a non might come. Stop

4:55

it. I'm serious. Like I- Great.

4:58

Then we canceled the live show and it turns into a Q and A. I

5:00

can't wait. But it really would mean the world

5:03

to see all of your beautiful faces. So please

5:05

join us. We are going to be at the punch line in

5:08

Atlanta, May 4th at 8 p.m. There

5:10

are still some VIP seats

5:12

available, though I think we're very, very close

5:14

to selling out. Almost sold out. And some

5:16

general admission. and we are planning

5:19

really special merch

5:20

for you as well. Right, Rabia? Oh, I'm so excited.

5:23

It's so cute. I will be just, we're just gonna wear all of it at the

5:25

same time. I can't wait. Well, enough

5:27

of the chitchat. We have a fantastic show

5:29

for you and a wonderfully deep

5:32

thought provoking case with James

5:34

Roday. I can't wait. Are you excited, Rabia?

5:37

I am, and I'm so glad James brought this

5:39

case to us. Yeah. Thank you,

5:41

James.

5:41

On with the show. Hi, Rabia. Hey, Ellen.

5:44

How are you doing? I am great. How are you

5:46

doing? I'm good. Is it

5:48

cold where you

5:49

are? Because you're indoors in a hat. I am always cold. Oh.

5:52

Great, how are you doing? I'm good, is it cold

5:54

where you are? Cause you're indoors in a hat.

5:57

I am always cold. You

5:59

know this. I'm

6:00

very small. I'm always cold. No,

6:02

I don't know that because you don't even wear socks to sleep, which

6:04

makes no sense to me if you were actually at the sleep. Well, let's

6:06

ask our guest today where he sits

6:09

on the sock debate. Sleeping

6:11

socks? Yeah. They're a thing. Before

6:14

we attack him with all of our questions, let's

6:16

introduce him. Go ahead, Rob. Yeah.

6:19

Oh my gosh. Like it

6:21

was a dream guest. I was like, do you think to our

6:23

producer, do you think we could get him? We got

6:25

him. We have today with us, James Roday

6:28

Rodriguez. Ah!

6:30

Welcome to the show, James. Thank you so much for

6:32

having me. It feels real good. He's

6:34

so excited. I love him. James,

6:37

listen, we don't mean to bring you into our

6:40

nonsense here, but...

6:41

I want to be in your nonsense. Okay.

6:43

All right. I demand, frankly, to be

6:45

a part of the non- He has a strong opinion on this

6:48

debate. I don't know what it is, but I know I have a strong opinion.

6:50

Let's do it. I am certain, James. Yes. Do

6:53

you sleep with socks?

6:56

Absolutely not.

6:56

Okay. Man. Do you

6:59

think the mere idea

7:01

of sleeping in socks is

7:03

banana pants? Listen. No, let him answer.

7:06

OK.

7:06

I would say

7:08

everybody's different. And I

7:11

personally run very hot, which means

7:13

I need to I needed to be cold when

7:15

I'm sleeping. And I know

7:18

I had no socks. Yeah. He

7:20

just texted me offline, Rabia, and said

7:22

anyone who wears socks to bed is a sociopath. That's

7:25

his words, not mine. I like to

7:26

throw a sociopath around as often. We

7:28

do too. We have this ongoing debate, this

7:31

crazy woman sleeps in socks. So fuzzy

7:33

socks were made for. They're called sleeping socks.

7:35

It is a thing. I will not accept it. I'm an American.

7:38

This is my constitutional right. They're

7:40

foot prisons.

7:41

Big, comfy, fuzzy socks. Sounds

7:43

for the right person like a dreamy

7:46

witch. They're hugs.

7:48

They are hugs for your feet. Anyway, okay. Thank

7:50

you so much for agreeing with me, James.

7:52

But we are really, really glad you

7:55

are here. I'm taking a Twitter poll. This is bullshit.

7:57

All right. Should we tell if everybody

7:59

knows the food?

8:00

hims as but should we do it yeah

8:02

thank dear thing lm well the you

8:04

know i think the word multi

8:06

high for net is really kind of over

8:08

used because i'm not an average man

8:10

renaissance yeah sure because

8:12

james kind of does it all acting

8:15

up writing directing

8:17

and i love that i think that every

8:19

aspect of performing is

8:21

amazing now i found this out

8:23

online did you go to n y u james

8:26

it did i am

8:27

a violent that's true yeah

8:29

and he has been

8:31

well he's currently on a b

8:33

c's a million little things

8:35

but he's also been directing

8:37

and writing he's written pilots for usa

8:40

and box and site by and

8:43

were just so happy you're here

8:45

is there anything fine you're doing right now

8:47

james in terms of performing

8:49

or anything creative that's really kind

8:51

of get you excited right now we

8:54

just robbed or the final

8:56

season things

8:59

oh okay graduations present

9:01

the death and fine with or was in the sixth

9:03

and final are we

9:05

showed up in vancouver were i seem

9:07

to shoot everything that you and

9:09

so we are in is

9:11

literally rumored a couple of weeks

9:14

and if you get back from a user

9:16

back to america

9:18

and it said through jones a short period

9:20

of finishing a one job

9:23

and to him to

9:24

reassess what life is

9:27

even what the next thing is not wanting

9:29

to rush into something to quickly because

9:31

it's appreciative as i am

9:33

to your been on to run a long run he shows

9:36

you have to kind of be ready for

9:39

you take a job with you'd run for that yeah

9:41

and i don't think i am at the moment so

9:44

i think i would say probably the next few

9:46

months will be a lot of

9:48

so

9:48

decompressing thinking about

9:50

what it is i actually wanna do with

9:53

my immediate future because truthfully

9:55

and again because i've been very lucky

9:57

i

9:57

haven't been in this position in quite some

10:00

burn it's a good problem to have to

10:03

wonderful wonderful champagne

10:05

from atlanta and i

10:07

find it very excited so i

10:09

know do a lot riding is a moyes

10:11

doing that but

10:12

as far as like what the next actual

10:15

see of acting gig are directing it looks

10:17

like i'm not entirely sure and i find

10:19

it predicts over

10:20

it yeah look if you ever want to write

10:22

a shell about to very

10:24

polar opposite podcast hers who

10:26

might investigate crime together to call

10:29

us also i saw you on instagram and

10:31

i've noticed that you seem to like animals

10:33

your big animal lover yeah i would say probably

10:35

like animals more than people

10:38

but most more ha i can get on board

10:40

with that when is your favorite

10:42

exotic animal i'm

10:43

a huge huge is any

10:45

and soft spot for elephants same

10:48

yeah they're running oh my gosh they're

10:50

so emotional or like

10:53

humans they have this a lot of same

10:55

as decent we go for empathy

10:57

for pairing off every

11:00

memory of in and they're vegetarians

11:02

and the the just ha beautiful

11:05

majestic how do you feel about

11:07

pandas well yeah i'm kind

11:09

of a panda girl is all

11:11

come for what they deserve those those

11:13

guys girls are especially interested i'll

11:16

out that i love elephants will dance

11:18

we play a little fun game called

11:20

three quick things and we each

11:22

ask your question not relating to

11:24

anything just a random question then we ask

11:27

all of our guests the same question

11:29

i feel

11:29

like i'm ready i'm is ready to get away so

11:31

aca don't know but what is the

11:33

most embarrassing thing

11:35

you've said in like a meeting

11:38

or and not dish a new any

11:40

thing in public with several witness

11:43

i

11:44

know that i've said things are far

11:46

more embarrassing and humiliating of this

11:49

but but the when it comes to mind

11:51

because i'm often reminded of

11:54

it or my best friend who's that i can't

11:56

i confidently said that's the

11:58

name of the the

12:00

1980 whatever hit song

12:02

by squeeze pulling muscles from

12:04

Michelle from a shell was

12:06

called pulling muscles for

12:09

Michelle That

12:13

you were so into that you and

12:15

we're doing you were going to your stops

12:18

you were literally pulling muscles to

12:20

get to this girl and I said

12:22

it's very very confidently in

12:24

a room full of of executives

12:27

including a music coordinator about.

12:29

Like you should

12:30

do this song in

12:32

this episode because it's perfect.

12:34

It tells the story of- A

12:38

story that never existed James. A boy

12:40

chasing a girl. Everybody

12:42

laughed and thought I was doing a bit

12:44

and I wasn't.

12:47

That's what

12:49

happens when you don't go back to double-check

12:51

stuff that you thought you knew in the

12:54

sixth grade. You need to go back and make

12:56

sure that you.

12:57

I cherish that kind of stuff. I love

12:59

it. I think it's adorable and I think you should

13:01

just stick with it and just dig

13:03

your heels into it. I always love the

13:05

strong and wrong approach though. Like

13:07

when you really. You got to sell it. You

13:09

got your fake it. You make it right. But

13:12

in that particular case, I didn't even think I was faking

13:14

it. I just thought, hey, this is the perfect

13:16

song. Everyone's

13:18

going to think that I'm dope because I'm

13:21

pulling out this squeeze song at the right

13:22

moment. appreciate that your best

13:25

friend does not let you live that down because

13:27

that's what best friends are for. All right. My

13:29

question is completely unrelated. What

13:31

is the most memorable meal you

13:33

have had in your life and why?

13:35

Well, guess I'll have to combine

13:38

my heritage with some nostalgia

13:41

and say the last time

13:43

that my grandmother made

13:45

her homemade cheese enchiladas

13:49

is something that I'll always remember because I

13:51

think I've

13:52

had them so many times over

13:54

the course of my childhood, but the last time she

13:56

made them was also the last time she was well

13:58

enough to cook. So we were.

14:00

all incredibly hyper aware

14:02

of probably this being and

14:05

i can still take i can honestly still taste

14:07

of america now a little bit better

14:09

than eight ever been before ever our

14:11

and nothing else by compared mean i've been to every

14:13

mexican restaurant los angeles

14:15

and york city and i can

14:18

find anything else closer not

14:20

grandma how long i was that proof

14:22

that was the easily

14:24

eight years ago ah also

14:26

to be clear nowhere in

14:29

new york will you find mexican food

14:31

that remotely comes close to the mexican

14:33

food you get in california i will die

14:35

on this hell morning california

14:38

live in new york and

14:40

never

14:40

never in a million years have i found

14:42

mexican food like there is in california

14:44

but i'm sure your grandma did a better

14:47

world

14:47

my grandma was tex mex roka

14:49

as i grew up in texas which is it's

14:51

own wayne of mexican

14:53

it's all it's incredibly regional

14:55

isn't anybody your family who tried to

14:57

like who got the recipe and tried to replicate

14:59

it from is clear they all do like the

15:01

is locals and in my father's

15:04

wife and in the others it's

15:06

it's in the ball or sure but all

15:08

of it's that they didn't use as

15:11

much lord maybe it's that we

15:13

out where but there's really no lotta

15:15

love there's really no substitute for

15:17

the entire can of crisco

15:20

going into the and before we start

15:23

and

15:24

why not a thank you for sharing

15:26

the i love with story there's always some he did memories

15:28

like attached to all of our food stories on your regular

15:31

be able to taste those and to lot of fifty years without

15:33

selling your mouth i'm italian and robbie

15:35

as from pakistan but whenever i talk to anyone

15:37

he's not from a culture that

15:40

real

15:40

these centers around food you

15:42

know some like white european cultures

15:44

and things like more man easy cultures

15:47

and like they're they're world doesn't revolve around

15:49

you don't like what what do you guys do all that

15:51

i think they play darts the

15:53

bill was darts yeah and

15:55

the marianas and the drink a lot of your yeah

15:58

well my ex husband is English

16:00

and he was like, we eat curry or fish and

16:02

chips. I was like, curry is not yours. I

16:06

mean, to be fair, to be fair, when they

16:08

left the subcontinent, we followed them back

16:11

as payback

16:12

and now the UK is full of brown

16:14

people who have forced

16:16

their culture onto them. And I think that's

16:19

as fair. They really are. Yeah, you got to eat our curry

16:21

now forever. And now we've got the third question. Go for it, Ellen. This

16:23

is the one we ask all of our guests. How does true

16:26

crime fit into your life? My

16:28

major

16:28

connection to True Crime is that

16:31

I live with someone who is obsessed

16:33

with it. Okay, fair.

16:35

I listen to all the podcasts

16:38

and watch all the shows. Love

16:40

it. And so I am sort of kept

16:43

up to speed indirectly, but

16:45

enough that I feel like you name 10 True

16:48

Crime podcasts. And I may

16:50

have heard of five of them, even though I've never listened

16:52

to them, because she does. And it just so happened.

16:55

This was just dumb luck that we

16:57

were road tripping when the

16:59

request came in. So

17:01

I was three episodes in to this

17:04

podcast that I offered up at

17:06

the exact moment that the

17:08

request came in. It also felt very kismedy. I

17:11

was like, well...

17:11

What? You were listening

17:13

to our podcast? No, I think I'm about Cobble Ball. I was listening to

17:15

Cobble Ball. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

17:18

While we were driving somewhere for

17:20

two days. Amazing. So when the request

17:22

came in, I was like, maybe I'm supposed to do this because

17:24

I don't even have to like pick something and

17:26

start from scratch. I'm like halfway through

17:28

already.

17:28

It's so interesting that you say that

17:31

because when I heard the case you chose,

17:33

I was like, that's so niche because

17:35

it is a case that is getting more

17:38

attention. Actually, let's just jump in. James,

17:40

why don't you tell our amazing listeners the

17:42

case that you chose?

17:43

I chose the senseless murder

17:46

of Brittany Stikes in Ohio.

17:49

She was driving on a

17:51

two-lane highway with

17:53

her one-year-old child as she was driving

17:56

in a Jeep and someone shot from the

17:58

driver's side five times.

18:00

The car went off the road, hit a tree,

18:02

and two lost passers-by

18:05

stopped to discover that she

18:08

had been killed.

18:09

And here's the part that blows everybody's

18:12

mind. Her one-year-old daughter

18:15

had also been shot in the head,

18:18

was just sitting there

18:20

chilling with her head covered in blood

18:22

and her dead mother in the driver's seat and

18:25

lit.

18:25

Can I just say that because you said that you

18:27

felt kind of kiss my day, like, here's

18:29

the thing, I don't believe in coincidences, James, the reason

18:32

you

18:32

got that request as you're listening to that

18:34

and then chose this case is because we're here, we're going to solve

18:36

it. Okay, let's do it. Oh,

18:39

boy. Well, to

18:41

James's point, the culpable

18:44

podcast, I was texting with the

18:46

host, Dennis Cooper, and our dear friend,

18:48

Payne Lindsay, is one of the producers

18:50

of that podcast. It is a sensational

18:53

deep dive. So obviously, we're going

18:55

to give our Crash Course. The three of us will

18:58

chat a little bit about it, but if at the end

19:00

of this podcast, you feel like

19:02

you want to dive more in, it is a

19:04

phenomenal listen. And

19:07

for part two, we are actually

19:09

going to be talking to the Stikes

19:12

family about their journey and

19:14

where they are right now, because this case

19:16

that is almost 10 years old just

19:18

hasn't gotten a lot of national attention.

19:21

So we definitely want to hear your thoughts on that.

19:25

I have been drinking liquid IV for

19:27

years. It is the hydration brand

19:30

that I have grown to love because

19:32

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22:35

So James, we're just going to take a couple minutes and

22:37

just pull our listeners up to speed.

22:39

We're going to read a crash course and then we'll dive

22:42

into, you know, some of the very,

22:44

very puzzling aspects of it.

22:46

Grief by definition is an emotional

22:48

process of coping with loss.

22:51

It's impossible to process grief intellectually.

22:54

It's overwhelming and the journey is

22:56

unique to everyone. A sudden loss can be

22:58

shocking. No one expects tragedy

23:00

to be a part of their family story. The feelings

23:03

of being helpless and powerless are

23:05

expected. And usually closure

23:07

is an important piece of the complicated puzzle

23:10

that is grief. It provides us with

23:13

some way to process what's

23:15

happened. You know, okay, they had

23:17

cancer, their bodies could no longer sustain

23:20

life. We can at

23:21

least qualify this in our brain

23:23

in some way. For the senseless murder of someone

23:25

with virtually zero leads or

23:28

answers, I mean, how does a family

23:30

ever sleep again? On August 28, 2013, it started as

23:32

an exciting day. 22-year-old

23:37

Brittany Stikes had an online interview

23:39

for a job at the IRS, and it was

23:41

her father David's birthday. That morning,

23:43

Brittany sent her father a text to wish him

23:45

a happy day and that she would stop over that

23:48

night to celebrate with him. Brittany and her

23:50

14-month-old daughter Aubrey

23:52

spent the earlier part of the day at her mother-in-law's

23:54

home. Brittany and her daughter stayed there for

23:56

dinner and then and they headed out to celebrate

23:58

her dad's 49th birthday. they but sadly

24:01

britney would never make it to the celebration

24:03

that may written

24:04

he was the second of five children her

24:06

parents david and mary raise their family on a farm

24:08

in a small rural town of ripley ohio

24:11

the town had population of about fifteen hundred

24:13

and that is just the way britney like did she

24:16

loved country living she loved the simple

24:18

life she was a homebody that would skip a

24:20

party to stay home with her family and watch

24:22

a movie this family was close i

24:24

mean really close we're talking call a couple

24:26

times a day and spend a weekend playing board games

24:28

together close to hear the family speak of how

24:30

much they enjoyed and loved each other his

24:32

heart warming in

24:34

every single account of brittany everyone

24:36

spoke of her sunny disposition and maternal

24:38

support of nature when britain was twenty years

24:40

old she got a job working at subway and that's

24:42

where she met her future husband shane

24:44

steaks shane

24:45

was thirty six at that time asked

24:47

to out and it was only five months of

24:50

dating before britney got pregnant so

24:52

they decided to get married very quickly and casually

24:54

in their living room know

24:56

guess snow dj know crab dip

24:58

just the couple and her parents shane

25:00

had two children from a previous marriage and britney

25:02

love them like they were her own and four

25:04

months later she would become mama to the

25:06

beautiful baby girl operate they move to a home

25:09

not far from britain his parents until

25:11

then britney had happily lived at home slowly

25:13

but nice family noticed aggressive behaviors

25:16

from shane her sister emily said

25:18

that he drank a lot and were often take

25:20

out his aggressions on britney probably

25:22

in an effort to save her family the worry she

25:24

didn't share of much of this

25:26

part of her life at home with shane

25:28

but her sister emily was more like a best friend

25:31

and spent many nights and weekends with her older

25:33

sister she admitted that while in their home

25:35

she noticed their relationship was far from

25:37

perfect when britney became pregnant with their

25:39

second child she was absolutely

25:41

terrified to tell shame she knew

25:43

he didn't want another baby she put

25:45

off telling him and even went to her

25:47

old be appointments in secret till the time

25:50

came that she had to tell em when she did

25:52

he became irate and she called her

25:54

parents hysterically crying

25:56

but then miraculously one day

25:58

like a light switch he was

26:00

fine and excited for their new addition

26:02

to their life. Weird. The night of Britney's

26:04

murder, she texted her parents to let them know she was

26:07

on her way at 7.15 p.m. That

26:09

day she was driving Shane's bright yellow Jeep

26:11

Wrangler. Little later that night, around 7.30 p.m.,

26:13

Britney's Jeep is seen on security

26:16

footage at the Georgetown Police Department and

26:18

past a nearby McDonald's. Shortly

26:20

after 8 p.m., a man named Craig

26:22

LaBelle missed his exit and was driving

26:24

on U.S. 68, and he saw headlights

26:27

coming from the other started the highway. He thought someone

26:29

was having car trouble,

26:30

so he and his wife, Sandra, turned

26:32

around and walked off the highway to the car.

26:34

Once he was close to Britney's car, he heard music

26:36

playing and windshield wipers going off.

26:39

As he approached the car, he saw a young woman slumped

26:41

over the steering wheel. It

26:43

was a lot to take in, and he had no idea

26:45

what had happened. Then he noticed blood

26:47

on her, and she appeared to not be breathing.

26:50

Then

26:50

he looked over to the side and saw her baby

26:52

girl, Aubrey, right next to her whimpering

26:54

and calling out, Mama. Aubrey was

26:57

alive. He immediately flagged his wife to call 911.

27:00

Unclear as to the magnitude of their wounds, they

27:02

waited for about nine minutes for first responders

27:04

to arrive at the scene. When

27:06

they arrived, even police were unclear of

27:08

the situation. They thought it was a car accident,

27:10

but unfortunately it was far more gruesome.

27:13

The officer could see clear gunshot wounds on Brittany,

27:15

specifically one in her neck. And after

27:18

being shot twice, it was clear that Brittany

27:20

and her unborn child were deceased at the scene.

27:22

Even scarier, one of the fatal shots that killed

27:25

Brittany traveled through her body and

27:27

into baby Aubrey's forehead. They

27:29

rushed Aubrey to the hospital. Now, if you

27:31

don't believe in miracles, look up the picture of

27:33

a now 10-year-old ginger cutie named Aubrey

27:36

Stikes after four surgeries, lots

27:38

of strength, this little warrior survived.

27:40

That night at 11.30 p.m., police arrived

27:43

at Shane and Brittany's home and he was naturally

27:45

brought in for questioning and tested for gunshot residue.

27:47

Shane shared his alibi. He had been at the gym

27:50

where a handful of police officers were also working

27:52

out. Shane was cleared by investigators after

27:54

he was cooperative and passed two polygraph

27:57

tests. However, detectives have made it clear

27:59

that absolut-

28:00

and no one has been positively ruled out,

28:02

not even yet. In 2014, Shane

28:04

said that he believed he knew who the killer was. While

28:07

Shane didn't publicly identify the person,

28:09

he said it was someone known to him. Okay,

28:12

why are you not shaying

28:13

the murder of your daughter's mother? But, well,

28:16

I think I know why, but we'll talk about that. After

28:18

almost two years filled with many leads

28:20

and all leads turning to dead ends, finally,

28:23

in September 2015, a promising tip came in. It

28:26

was from a woman who claimed her ex-boyfriend,

28:28

and Tommy Lopez killed Brittany. The

28:30

witness also said that not only

28:33

did she know that Tommy murdered Brittany,

28:35

but she was with him at the time of

28:37

the murder. She explained how they saw a

28:39

yellow Jeep operated by Stikes at

28:42

a gas station, followed her, and

28:44

then he had

28:45

this police light that

28:47

could plug into a cigarette lighter, and

28:49

he used that light to pull over Stikes. She

28:51

went on to explain when they stopped

28:54

the Jeep, Lopez walked up to the yellow

28:56

Jeep and fired several shots. She

28:58

said her boyfriend killed Brittany in retaliation

29:01

for a debt that Shane Stikes owed.

29:03

She said he was paid $20,000 to kill her. And

29:06

even though Lopez was in custody on

29:09

drug-related charges, they executed a

29:11

search warrant by the Kentucky State Police.

29:13

During the search, investigators confiscated

29:16

several items, including cell phones,

29:18

GPS devices, weapons, letters,

29:20

notes, and computer equipment. Tommy was

29:22

never brought to grand jury or charged

29:25

with any crime pertaining to Brittany.

29:27

Apparently, according to my research,

29:30

this all appears to have been an elaborate

29:32

hoax. The devastating act of

29:35

tricking a grieving family to exploit

29:37

another person's emotions, whatever

29:39

would possess someone to do that. I mean, we

29:42

could go into the psychology of what

29:44

kind of a vile human would

29:46

do that, but I guess that's for another

29:48

time. But for this case, that

29:51

poor excuse for a human set this

29:53

investigation back about a a year

29:55

and you don't have to be an expert to know

29:57

that time is crucial and in abstract

30:00

irreplaceable. So what about

30:02

the husband?

30:03

It's usually in these kinds of cases, the husband. But

30:05

detectives confirmed that they interviewed him and conducted

30:08

lie detector tests. And although no one's

30:10

been officially cleared, they've always described

30:12

Shane as cooperative. The family, on the

30:14

other hand, seems they have been at odds with

30:16

Shane right from the time that Brittany was killed.

30:19

They've argued or disagreed on everything

30:21

from where she would be laid to rest to finances.

30:24

Shane apparently filed claims to receive money

30:26

for being the victim of a crime. It's messy. He's

30:29

taken several times to the radio on the Kid Chris

30:32

show to share his thoughts on Britney's family.

30:34

Our friends at the Culpable Podcast did a tremendous

30:37

investigation on this case and spoke to the family

30:39

at length. There's no online research

30:41

that's going to provide the state of mind or state of relationship

30:44

between Britney and Shane, but according to her sister,

30:46

Emily, Britney was planning on leaving

30:48

Shane.

30:49

Apparently mama Mary didn't even learn

30:51

about this until she went to go collect clothing

30:54

for the funeral and noticed that Britney's

30:56

clothes were already packed. I don't

30:58

think at the time she fully understood how truly unhappy

31:00

and scared that Britney was. There are many frustrating

31:03

aspects of this case. There were no shell

31:05

casings ever found, no eyewitnesses, no

31:07

clear motive. But 10 years out, this

31:09

is by no means a cold case. Investigators

31:12

in Brown County, led by Detective Quinn Carlson

31:15

currently on the case, says right now they're

31:17

using very new technology with

31:19

the hope of piecing together new leads.

31:21

He can't say what the technology entails,

31:24

but he said that they're putting together data

31:26

that could help pinpoint where people were

31:28

when Stikes died. And talk about

31:31

an engaged family. This family

31:33

has done everything

31:34

and will continue to

31:36

do anything. They have Facebook groups,

31:38

they respond to comments, they will take

31:41

any and every lead to help them bring

31:43

their sweet Britney justice. With

31:45

more questions than answers, everyone

31:48

close to the case can agree this felt targeted,

31:50

whether it was to Britney or Shane that

31:52

remains to be seen. But there's No way

31:55

that a random act of road rage could

31:57

produce such pristine shots.

32:00

Shane would not identify the person,

32:02

but he says that he knows

32:04

this person who did this to Brittany, just not

32:07

on a personal level. During this entire

32:09

investigation, detectives, family,

32:11

community, and countless podcasts and

32:13

Facebook groups struggled to understand why

32:16

anyone would want to shoot a pregnant mother

32:18

and her young daughter. She

32:20

had never been in any trouble with the law,

32:22

she didn't use substances of any kind,

32:25

and wasn't involved in any illegal activity.

32:27

Brittany was a sweet young woman with no

32:30

known enemies. There seemed to be no reason

32:32

why anyone would want her dead. After

32:34

hundreds of tips, investigators have made

32:36

no arrests, they have not recovered a murder

32:39

weapon, and it feels like just

32:41

a tiny bit of information is missing

32:43

to solve this case. Feels

32:46

like they're so close. So

32:48

why haven't we solved the case of the

32:50

murder of Brittany Stikes?

32:52

Let's talk about it.

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So

36:12

James, take it away.

36:14

What were your thoughts when you learned

36:16

about this case? What hits you

36:18

the most? Tell us. I

36:20

think

36:20

just how tragic it is because

36:23

it's so, I think

36:25

obvious that she had

36:27

absolutely nothing to do with why

36:29

she was killed. This was a decent

36:32

woman trying to get through a tough

36:34

time in her life, who by all accounts

36:37

was also a really good mom,

36:39

and had another one on the way, and

36:41

got caught in the crossfire of

36:43

some awful bullshit

36:46

that had nothing to do with her. So

36:48

I

36:49

think just the senselessness of it,

36:51

because she had no, she most likely had

36:53

no relationship with the person that

36:55

killed her at all, is what makes it extra

36:58

tragic, I think, to me. And any time

37:00

a child is put in that kind of danger,

37:03

it's just awful as well.

37:05

Did you end up listening to the entire series,

37:08

the culpable series on the case? I did. Did

37:10

you formulate a theory at the end of what you think happened?

37:14

I wish I had something that no one else

37:16

had thought of. I really do. I

37:19

mean, there's part of me that's like, okay, you

37:21

start with the vehicle, a bright yellow

37:24

Jeep that you can see coming from,

37:27

a mile away that you can identify from space,

37:29

right? If Shane

37:32

knew that he had beef with people,

37:34

if he knew that those

37:37

people were the types of people that could be

37:39

capable of this,

37:41

and everybody knows that Shane

37:44

drives a Jeep that you can see from space,

37:47

why would you ever let your wife,

37:50

your pregnant wife, and the mother of your

37:52

child drive that thing? That's

37:55

a question that's been gnawing at me from

37:57

the very first episode. That's just like, dude,

37:59

when

38:00

When they came to you, you spit out three names like

38:02

that. All right, it's one of these three guys because

38:05

I have beef with them. Well, think about the

38:07

people that you've had trouble

38:10

with in your life.

38:11

And do you think that any of them

38:14

are capable of murdering your spouse because

38:16

you got in an argument with them at a grocery store?

38:18

No, he had three names on the tip of

38:20

his tongue that he thought were

38:23

capable

38:24

of killing someone in cold

38:26

blood and he's letting your drive around

38:28

And the thing that is most distinguishable

38:31

as

38:32

something that is connected to

38:33

him. Did you think for a moment that if

38:35

it was a targeted killing, which I'm

38:38

actually not convinced about, I might have a

38:40

theory that people are going to hate me for, but if this was

38:43

a targeted thing, do you think those people might have been

38:45

like actually coming after Shane instead of her

38:47

killed her by mistake? The mere fact

38:48

that they could have been coming after

38:51

Shane and that Shane had three ideas

38:53

so quickly of people

38:55

he thought.

38:56

Shane, who are you hanging out with Shane? would

38:58

settle a score in that way. Right?

39:01

Yeah. Everybody knows

39:03

he drives that Jeep. Everybody knows that's his Jeep. So...

39:07

Well, you know, there was an interview in which he said that

39:09

she loved the Jeep so much, she primarily

39:11

drove it. Like she had cut, I don't know if it

39:13

had a second car,

39:14

but... I do remember some of

39:16

him saying that, which again, I was like,

39:19

I still don't know what to make of

39:21

him on the

39:22

whole. Yeah. But to

39:24

your point, it is yellow. It's not even

39:26

red. I think red is a really flashy

39:29

color. And we're talking about they live in

39:31

a town with 1,500 people. You

39:33

know, there are bigger towns surrounding,

39:36

but everybody knows, oh, there's shame.

39:39

I mean, I know 1,500 people, you know what they

39:41

drive. But I don't know if they lived in Ripley. Ripley

39:43

had 1,500 people. She was driving to Ripley

39:45

to see her dad on his birthday.

39:48

That's not where they live. I don't know what the town like where

39:50

they live, but you're right. Look, in these small towns,

39:52

people are gonna be like, oh, there goes the yellow

39:54

Jeep. It's not like we all kind of know that, right? Like in my

39:56

neighborhood, I know he's driving a Y. Even if there's nothing

39:58

suspicious about it, it's the people.

40:00

your level of your of irresponsibility

40:02

maha if you're running in those kind

40:04

of circles yeah and you

40:06

that people who don't like you that you

40:08

think you're capable of murdering people

40:11

i don't know if i would ever since my loved

40:13

ones out in a giant you

40:15

know yellow or at

40:17

basically announces that they're connected so

40:19

about the first thing that i had to get over

40:21

just a that i get like start thinking about

40:23

other people besides chain

40:26

beyond that the lopez thing

40:28

is mind blowing my

40:30

mind as it's so specific

40:33

and ah and she seemed to be

40:35

so willing the like whatever

40:37

you need i'll tell you weren't he very

40:39

stuff i'll tell you how he keeps

40:42

his stash of of photos

40:43

that he takes it is i will tell you

40:45

everything and then they start checking some of

40:47

it out in some of it's legit and and

40:49

that's why i was like what it has

40:52

to be this guy i that's of town yeah

40:54

there's more of those money it does

40:56

go back to shade so it kind of like

40:58

it stitches in with some of the previous

41:01

species and then the idea that this

41:03

person

41:03

would have concocted all of for

41:05

flat what what is the gay a me but i still

41:07

have it's all the time it happens all the

41:09

time she was so specific

41:12

when i heard that i thought oh no

41:14

the police dropped the ball why

41:15

didn't they at least take it to grand jury

41:18

and they just kind of left it and said

41:20

it was a hoax and as like what robbie of why

41:22

wouldn't they just see they did say

41:24

they didn't take it to grand jury they didn't take a grand

41:26

jury because they didn't have enough to get a grand jury

41:28

and remember grand jury will and died a ham sandwich

41:31

if you hear if you think your cases nah sprung

41:33

up to go to grand jury you have a rap you have

41:35

nothing and i am actually thankful

41:37

that they do their due diligence enough to say this

41:40

person is feeding us a load of crap none what's interesting

41:42

is when you look at a statement to the reason we all became

41:44

convinced that this person might be legitimate

41:46

as they said this informant first was

41:48

an informant when a person it becomes an informant

41:51

for the please it's usually cause they got a sword hanging over

41:53

that person's head the already trying to protect themselves

41:55

from something i've seen this in so many cases

41:57

so they are constantly trying to like save

41:59

their and feeding the police like stories

42:02

to make deals for whatever it is they need to do to

42:04

protect themselves. But when the police said that the informant

42:06

had new information that was never made public,

42:09

do you know how that happened? That happens because the police

42:11

have either invertibly or on purpose fed

42:13

that person information to legitimize

42:15

their story. This happens over and over and

42:17

over. That's how you end up with false confessions. People falsely

42:20

confess with all these details because the police

42:22

in their interrogation have been feeding them details,

42:24

sometimes without even knowing it. So the fact

42:26

that they were like, they took this person's story and

42:29

they tried to corroborate

42:30

it. They did a raid on the guy's house, right? They

42:32

could have closed this case if there was a there there.

42:34

I actually think they did do diligence and did the right thing

42:37

by saying, if we can't get a grand jury

42:39

indictment, there's really nothing there. We know

42:41

nothing about the guy, like whether or not he had an alibi

42:43

for that day, but I will say what I noticed about

42:45

his arrest record was

42:46

their drug charges. I don't see

42:48

violent crime charges. Let's follow

42:50

the line of reasoning that let's say somebody

42:53

hired him. Dude, there's gotta be a trail of breadcrumbs

42:55

there. You can't just hire somebody through sheer psychic

42:57

thought, You know, it has

43:00

to be like text messages, phone calls,

43:03

emails, some evidence they've

43:05

even met. There's been a transaction.

43:07

How did somebody find this random guy with

43:10

drug charges and say, hey, would

43:12

you do a hit? You can't make up stuff with

43:14

nothing to back it up. Yeah, it just was oddly

43:17

specific.

43:17

Like she had said it was $20,000, but

43:20

it was two $10,000 payments. Meaningless.

43:23

People add details like that when they think it'll

43:26

help legitimize their story. And a lot of times

43:28

it's just signs of them making shit up. I'm sorry. That's

43:31

my...

43:31

The last time they went back to talk to her, because

43:34

it

43:35

hadn't yielded an arrest or anything,

43:38

she was clearly deathly afraid

43:40

for her own life at that point. And that

43:42

to me is where it's like, the calculated risk

43:44

doesn't make any sense to me. It's like,

43:46

okay, so she was trying to get herself

43:48

off of some other charge or whatever it was. She

43:51

throws out this whole hoax theory. It didn't

43:53

work. So now the crazy dude

43:55

that you were in a relationship with knows

43:59

that she tried

44:00

to frame him for the murder

44:02

of a woman and an unborn child.

44:04

Like why would you take that risk? Because

44:06

now it's out there and if he is that

44:08

violent of a guy, like she's never

44:11

going to be able to stop looking over her shoulder.

44:13

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I know she had said

44:16

that she waited on the

44:18

information because she didn't come forward until 2015 and

44:21

she said she waited until he was behind bars.

44:24

But maybe she was trying to keep him

44:26

there for longer. Yeah, people do

44:28

crazy things. People confess to killing

44:30

people they haven't killed. So like people

44:33

do do crazy things. We kind of don't know what

44:35

the stressors, nobody's seen the interrogation

44:37

video with her and the police, like we just don't know

44:39

enough about, but what we do know is

44:41

the police and the prosecutor were like,

44:43

she ain't good enough, we got nothing

44:45

to back her, like the story. And I think

44:47

if they had even a crumb, they would have probably

44:49

gone forward at least taking it to the grand jury.

44:52

I don't put any credit in her account

44:54

at all. I just know that the way that they

44:56

described the stuff that they found

44:58

at his house and the way that they described his van.

45:02

This guy was the villain

45:04

in a true detective. He

45:06

was so creepy. He was so creepy. Get

45:08

a murder kit at home. Yeah. Yeah.

45:12

Let's just go over the scene of the crime

45:14

a little bit. There were five bullets

45:17

shot. Two went into Brittany

45:19

and three other ones missed

45:22

and went into the car. There were three bullets in the

45:24

door and two, The window

45:26

was like that plastic Jeep. What do you call

45:29

that? Is it like a casing?

45:31

It's like a soft top, so the windows aren't really

45:33

windows yet. Right, yeah. And it went

45:35

through. Now something to note

45:38

was that Brittany had $125 in cash on

45:41

her and some jewelry. So we

45:44

know this wasn't a robbery. She

45:46

also had no life insurance.

45:48

So there was no kind of thing that

45:50

we see over and over again, you know,

45:53

somebody trying to plot in that way.

45:56

And so let's talk

45:58

about Shane's alibi.

46:00

and what we think about that and

46:02

the timing of all that. Because I have a lot

46:04

of questions about the where and

46:06

the why and the how about his alibi.

46:10

We

46:10

also add that there are no shell casings or

46:12

residue, which eliminates the possibility

46:14

of a close range execution

46:17

style anything. We know that it was

46:19

while they were on the

46:20

road. Yeah. And

46:22

that's another reason that informant's story holds no water. I

46:25

don't know if we mentioned this detail, but the car was actually found on

46:27

the left side of the road, like in an embankment.

46:29

and it had impact, the car had impact

46:31

damage. She was going fast enough to kind of like

46:33

jump the embankment, land on the left side of

46:35

the road, not the right, if she had pulled over, cause somebody

46:38

was pulling her over, a cop was pulling over, she would've pulled over to

46:40

the right, which is what we all do. Every indication shows

46:42

that she was literally just driving whatever,

46:45

the speed, you know what I mean, just regularly

46:47

driving when she was shot at, the car

46:50

veered off to the left and ended up in that ditch.

46:52

Yeah, and again, for a visual, it

46:54

is a two lane highway. Someone

46:56

would have had to driven essentially into

46:59

oncoming traffic, there wasn't a high traffic

47:01

road, and come up next to her

47:03

because she was shot on the left.

47:06

Right.

47:06

And next to her long enough to

47:08

unload five times on the same

47:11

side of the car. Yeah, and

47:13

to get that shot while moving,

47:15

it all seems very 007 scary action

47:17

movie-like. Can

47:21

we talk a little about whether or not it was targeted?

47:23

Yeah. I actually don't believe it was targeted

47:25

at all. Okay, why? I'll tell you why.

47:28

First of all, for it to be targeted, there has to be

47:30

like some real motive is either like the

47:32

life insurance, that doesn't exist. He owed

47:34

money to people, no evidence of it. There's a hit

47:36

man again, no evidence of it. But also, you

47:38

know, Brittany did stuff that day. She

47:40

would have had to have been stalked

47:41

all day, right? She went to her mother-in-laws.

47:46

Somebody would have had to have been following her around all

47:48

day to figure out exactly where she's going to

47:51

be at that time

47:53

and get her right in the moment. They could have shot her

47:55

when she had stopped the car somewhere.

47:57

They could have shown, I mean, this is a rural area.

48:00

Like, who's going to take us? Who's going to be like, this is

48:02

the time I'm going to take her out, like a target. But

48:04

also how long? Nobody would know that

48:06

she's got this interview. She did this. She went to her mother-in-law's

48:08

place and she was she had left her mother-in-law's

48:10

to go to her parents when she was killed. She

48:12

went there to do an online interview for a position

48:14

at the IRS. And if somebody's stalking

48:17

her, they have no idea what she's doing in the mother-in-law's house. They don't know

48:19

how long she's going to be there. To play devil's advocate

48:21

on that, they're in a small town. You

48:24

know, she's going to go six places.

48:26

At that time, she was a stay at home mom. She had left

48:29

her job at Walmart. So to play devil's advocate

48:31

on that She's at her mom's her

48:33

mother-in-law's the grocery store

48:35

and all of those places are

48:37

so much easier to kill her than driving

48:40

next and doing it like this

48:42

because this kind of shot is like

48:44

like you said like it takes like a Professional

48:47

sniper or you know what I mean? Like somebody

48:49

take a successful shot like yeah But there were no witnesses

48:51

where they were but there would have been witnesses at the grocery

48:54

store I mean, but there are again, there's a lot

48:56

of other places. Here's the thing. For those of you

48:58

who have listened to Undisclosed, which

49:00

is the podcast I wrapped up last year,

49:02

our second season was about a case that

49:04

is almost identical to this. And the

49:06

defendant, Joey Watkins, was convicted

49:09

of driving alongside the victim, shooting

49:12

into that guy's truck, the truck

49:14

running off the road, the victim dying.

49:17

Joey Watkins has been in prison for like 25 years. We

49:19

just brought him home this year. He was finally exonerated

49:21

this year. And you know what it turned? probably

49:24

the likelihood was in that entire case, which

49:26

I think, this is my theory, was that

49:28

it was probably

49:30

random bullets from a hunter in the woods

49:32

that accidentally hit this guy on the road and

49:34

ended up causing the car crash. And it's

49:37

so crazy the parallels between that case and this

49:39

case, because the impossibility

49:41

of actually driving next to somebody

49:44

and doing that with such precision, the

49:46

driver couldn't do it. If there's a car next to that, it would

49:49

have to be like a passenger doing it, right? Sure.

49:51

Which is maybe a possibility. or somebody

49:54

off in the woods far enough away

49:56

that if they fired the weapon, And guess what?

49:58

The casings wouldn't show up. because

50:00

they're out there in the woods. And no

50:02

gun residue would show up because they're so far away.

50:04

James, are you familiar with guns

50:07

or shooting or hunting? Is that any part of

50:09

your life? No, it's not. I

50:11

can offer that. Oh, darn, no guns. Except to say that, I

50:13

don't like, to your point,

50:16

Robbie, maybe it wasn't a car that

50:19

drove up. I wonder how much

50:21

thought they've given someone being

50:23

in the woods, even targeted or no

50:26

targeted. Right, it could be a stupid kid

50:27

with a gun just shooting at something yellow. That's where

50:30

the shooter was either way, but it would

50:32

still have to be someone who's pretty damn good with

50:34

a long range rifle to hit

50:36

it five times while it's moving, which

50:38

is why if it's a hunter who's

50:40

shooting at something that's not the

50:43

car,

50:43

that means he has to randomly hit

50:46

a different target that he's not aiming at

50:48

five times while it's going 50 miles

50:51

an hour. Yeah.

50:51

Yeah. Well, one part

50:54

of the case that is very, that's been really frustrating

50:56

to us is we don't know

50:58

what kind of weapon was used.

51:01

This is an ongoing investigation and

51:04

part of the frustration

51:06

in trying to research this is there are some

51:08

things that are still classified. So could

51:10

not have been a rifle because a rifle

51:12

couldn't shoot off that many bullets

51:15

that fast to a moving target. Like James

51:17

said, I don't know enough about

51:20

guns to know. They have the

51:21

bullets, they don't have the casings. And the bullets,

51:24

and I know Elle and I were digging around, We could not

51:26

find any information online

51:28

about what kind of ammunition it was, but maybe

51:31

the family knows or maybe the, I'm sure

51:33

the police have the bullets, at least two

51:35

of them were in Brittany's

51:37

body, but it means they're not releasing

51:39

the information. So just the kind of

51:42

ammunition would help

51:43

narrow down the kind of weapon. So the police are just

51:45

not telling us. That's where that's at, I think. Yeah.

51:48

Your

51:48

question on Shane's alibi. I mean, the

51:50

way he described his life in

51:52

general was, I mean, let's just start

51:55

there. He's like, this is what I do. I get up,

51:57

I drive an hour and a half to work. but drive

52:00

hour

52:00

and a half to a gym. I

52:02

work out for three hours. I say

52:04

hello to my family. I go to bed. That's

52:06

what I do. That's what he does. That's

52:08

horrible.

52:08

Yeah. But what else is

52:11

sort of confusing to you about

52:13

Shane as a character? He's an easy

52:15

guy to point at because he's

52:18

a drinker. He has a temper.

52:21

She didn't feel totally safe around

52:23

him. And he apparently had some

52:25

previous stuff that he he was involved in that was

52:27

less than safe.

52:29

Do you know what that was? I actually haven't

52:31

listened to Couple Bowl, pain don't hate me. I

52:33

will listen to it, but do you know what Unsaved

52:36

Restock? Put that on the air, Rabia.

52:38

It's okay. I'm a foder to

52:40

be done. No, no, full disclosure, full

52:42

disclosure. But James, what was the- Pain is

52:45

one of our friends. It really

52:47

is a great podcast. You make so many shows, I don't want

52:49

time to listen to them all, man. You

52:52

know how many shows that man makes? Anyway. I know. So

52:54

James, what was some of the unsavory stuff? Like what

52:56

are you talking about? Like how serious are

52:57

we talking about? Can you allude to having

53:00

done some stuff in his past,

53:02

which I sort of made the leap that it was

53:05

either drug related or

53:07

like petty crime or whatever, and that he was

53:09

trying to sort of

53:10

make right. That

53:13

he was doing some things now to

53:16

make up for some of the shit that he had done in

53:18

his past. The fourth person

53:20

that he said, I know who killed her.

53:22

I know who killed her. I just

53:24

never names this person, but he says he knows him.

53:26

He says his local

53:27

wasn't happy with the fact that Shane

53:30

was trying to make things right.

53:32

It's all very fake. It

53:34

sounds like a gang thing, like trying to get out of a gang.

53:36

Yeah, what Shane basically gives us is, I didn't used

53:39

to be such a great dude. I'm trying to turn a

53:41

corner. I've turned over a new leaf. And this

53:43

person who I think killed my wife and child

53:46

didn't like the fact that

53:49

I was trying to go straight. There's a lot

53:51

of, I can't talk about that. Oh,

53:54

I get what? Yeah, I don't want to say

53:56

I don't want to say which I guess you have

53:58

to respect the investigation. about

54:00

what you're trying to learn things and research,

54:02

it's very frustrating. But he had said

54:04

that also there was a lot

54:06

of drugs in the community. Like we're

54:08

talking heroin. This is complete

54:11

speculation on my part, but like maybe

54:13

he had run with the circle, changed

54:16

his ways, and then

54:18

they were like, oh, what, are you too good for us now?

54:20

Are you ratting us out? Because he had

54:23

goals to join law enforcement.

54:25

But is that a thing? Like if you owe a drug

54:27

debt, let's say, you're trying to get out of a gang. I

54:29

mean,

54:30

are those people gonna come after like your

54:32

wife? Why don't they just come after you? Like,

54:34

I feel like I don't understand that. I don't think

54:36

I've seen that before. Like, we're gonna kill, it's not in the mafia.

54:39

We're literally, I'm gonna kill each member of your family one

54:41

by one to torture you, right? Like, that's mafia

54:43

type of stuff. I don't know. If he

54:45

did have a drug debt, he's no good debt. Yeah,

54:48

you're

54:48

not gonna get the money if you kill the person that owes

54:50

it to you. Yeah, but if you kill his wife

54:52

and child and ruin his life, that'll send

54:55

a message. I mean, we're talking about people who clearly

54:57

don't think the way that we do.

54:59

Well, look, we know that he has publicly

55:01

not named the person or people that

55:03

he thinks might be involved. And I actually

55:06

appreciate that. It is the responsible thing

55:08

to do, even though I'm the person who I'm

55:10

like, this is who I think killed him

55:12

and Leonid Nonskib. But we know for sure, I'm

55:14

sure he told the police. Of course he told the police. He's

55:16

told the investigators. And all these are decade

55:19

on. It's not gone anywhere for

55:21

them, right? It's not gone anywhere for them. Also,

55:24

it wasn't one of the first three names out of his

55:26

mouth. We should remember that. Like he landed

55:28

on this person that he's now 100% certain

55:31

did get it. But when they went to him the first

55:34

time, he rattled off three names, none

55:36

of which were this mystery person.

55:38

Okay, so there were three other people and now there's this

55:40

other person. Yeah. So

55:43

it makes his he was pretty sure

55:45

that it was the ex boyfriend for a second there.

55:47

He was 100% sure dusty. Yeah.

55:50

Yeah, I know who did it. It was dust. Yeah.

55:53

So, so he's, it seems like he kind of, as soon as one

55:55

is serious, disproved, he hops

55:57

to another. because this

56:00

this

56:00

mystery suspect has

56:02

not yet been disproved. I think

56:04

that's sort of where he's planted his flag.

56:05

Let me ask you both this question. Would

56:08

it ever fly in your family

56:10

not to go to your in-laws birthday

56:13

so you can work out at the gym? Hmm,

56:15

I was interested. I never thought about that. That says a lot about

56:17

where they were. But we also know that she had packed

56:19

up some boxes and was planning on leaving them. Sure.

56:22

So that kind of sizes up with,

56:24

I ain't coming to your dad's birthday. But

56:26

secretly, he didn't know if

56:28

this was behind his back.

56:31

I thought the sister said that he knew she was gonna leave him,

56:33

no? No, they had gotten in some arguments,

56:36

but she just said she had packed up

56:38

because she was going

56:40

to do it in secret. They had gotten in fights

56:42

and he had been like, fine, go then, I'll

56:45

pay your child support. They had had that

56:47

kind of really toxic back and forth,

56:49

but there were no plans. He's claiming

56:52

there was no issue. I'm just saying,

56:54

unless you have something really pressing

56:56

that's pulling you from

56:58

a family event.

57:00

The

57:00

gym? And he

57:02

stayed at the gym till nine

57:05

p.m. He says he closed up

57:07

the gym. And then he went home.

57:10

He didn't even swing by for like a cake

57:12

and some Neapolitan ice cream. Did

57:14

he know

57:14

there was Neapolitan? Yeah, fair

57:17

question. I mean, I'll do some crazy

57:20

shit for some mint chip. I'll tell you that. Yeah,

57:22

it sounds like it wanted nothing to do with that family

57:24

or celebrating anything. I

57:27

mean, he said on several occasions that

57:29

the family didn't much care for him before Brittany

57:31

was killed.

57:32

If a 36-year-old man was

57:34

trying to get with my 20-year-old daughter, I

57:36

can understand that. I was a little bit alarmed

57:39

with this whole dynamic. He was 36 when they met

57:41

when she passed. Right,

57:45

but I'm saying initially, because he said

57:47

that they weren't too excited about the whole relationship

57:49

anyways. 20 and 36, I

57:51

mean, and he's got kids from before.

57:52

He also didn't want the new

57:54

child, the child that she was carrying.

57:57

went off on her when she thought she was afraid. It's

58:00

never great when you're afraid

58:02

to tell your partner that you're pregnant.

58:04

But then when she did, his reaction

58:07

was pretty ugly. And then I guess he did

58:09

in a bow face, which might point

58:11

to some semblance of decency

58:14

in him that he realized that it was a really

58:16

shitty thing to do and took it

58:18

back and said, I got to get on the straight and narrow

58:20

here. I'm going to be a dad again. We'll figure it out.

58:23

We just don't know what to think of, Shane.

58:25

What

58:25

do you guys think about the fact that he passed two polygraphs?

58:28

I don't care. Polygraphs aren't admissible

58:30

in court and they're not admissible in my life. Thank

58:32

you, Counselor. Thank you, Counselor. James, how do you feel about

58:34

that? They don't matter.

58:37

Both ways. Both ways. If you

58:39

gave me a polygraph right now and asked me

58:41

what my name was, you would say, and

58:43

I said, Ellen, it would say, I'm lying. Because

58:46

I'm crazy. Here's my

58:47

best argument for why he had

58:50

nothing to do with it, if I'm going to play both sides.

58:52

Even if he wanted her dead

58:55

and didn't want another kid and

58:58

another mouth to feed, why do you

59:00

do it while you know she's in the car with

59:02

your one and a half year old? You're not just eliminating

59:05

the problem of divorce you don't want to have to

59:07

pay for and another child you don't want

59:09

to have support.

59:11

You're killing the child that you have that's already

59:13

here that he's now co-raising

59:15

with her parents

59:17

for the rest of her life.

59:19

And he seems like a really good dad, by the way.

59:21

I mean, the daughter's- Yeah, it takes the level of dark

59:24

diabolical, premeditated

59:26

murder to a whole, that's weird

59:28

to me, that if it was him,

59:31

even if he had it contracted, he knew

59:33

that he was gonna be killing his entire family,

59:35

not just his pregnant wife.

59:37

Yeah, and again, jumping

59:39

on board with your devil's advocacy,

59:41

James, you can be a shitty

59:43

husband and even a shitty dude and not

59:45

be a murderer. So we've,

59:48

the Scott Peterson of it all, Oh God, I

59:50

said his name on our podcast. I'm sorry, Rabia,

59:52

we're gonna get letters. I think about Scott all the time. Listen,

59:55

here's where I land on the polygraph stuff. The reason

59:57

it's not admissible, of course, because it is very easy

59:59

to produce.

1:00:00

false results that indicate that somebody's guilty

1:00:02

or they're lying because of the fact that we all respond

1:00:04

like weird when we're under stress, right? I think

1:00:07

it's much harder to produce a false

1:00:09

result when somebody passes. And

1:00:12

when it's being used in court, it's almost always being

1:00:14

used to show that this person

1:00:17

is guilty because they failed a polygraph, not necessarily

1:00:19

to show that they are not guilty. It's almost never

1:00:21

used in that capacity. But to be able to pass

1:00:23

a polygraph and it'd be a false result,

1:00:25

I think is a much harder thing. And you're right, a sociopath

1:00:28

might be able to do it. There

1:00:30

aren't that many sociopaths in the world. I know we like to

1:00:32

think there are, but it takes a level of

1:00:34

like, you got to like be trained, maybe

1:00:36

like a, you know, like an

1:00:38

Israeli Mossad agent trained

1:00:41

in like, you know, how to pass these things.

1:00:43

You're not going to like be just somebody off the street who can

1:00:45

just do it like that easily. That's why, even

1:00:47

though I understand where you're at, I know that if

1:00:49

he had failed both of them, a lot of people

1:00:52

would be like, Oh, we'll see. But I think the fact that he passed

1:00:54

actually does say something to me. And I also think

1:00:56

about the fact that he's, he has been not just greatly

1:00:58

cooperative, seems like he is constantly

1:01:00

pushing the investigation. Yeah. And to me,

1:01:02

that is probably one of the biggest signs that, like, a

1:01:04

person who does not want to uncover the truth

1:01:07

is

1:01:07

going to be much more reluctant to push an

1:01:10

investigation over and over again. And

1:01:12

the detective who's now in charge,

1:01:14

who is a different Quinn Carlson,

1:01:17

did make it a point to say he has been

1:01:19

extraordinarily cooperative.

1:01:21

I do somehow

1:01:23

take issue and it's totally just my

1:01:26

emotions that the family and he

1:01:28

don't really get along. James, you made a great point

1:01:30

that I just wanted to reiterate they do

1:01:32

legally share custody now. The

1:01:34

Dodson family and Shane

1:01:37

share custody of baby Aubrey and

1:01:40

I know that they put their differences aside

1:01:43

for the baby, which is amazing,

1:01:45

but

1:01:45

Shane goes on that radio

1:01:48

station every once in a while

1:01:50

and talks about the botched

1:01:52

investigation and talks about

1:01:54

the family. I just go back

1:01:56

and forth. It's upsetting. You just would hope

1:01:58

that they would could all be

1:02:00

better for each other. Don't you guys think it

1:02:02

is a crap investigation? I think that's the most frustrating

1:02:04

thing to me about this case. We're not talking about, we're

1:02:06

talking about 2013.

1:02:08

You know, 2013 they should be able

1:02:10

to use cell phone technology to pinpoint where every person

1:02:12

of interest was. Like I don't understand

1:02:14

why this has not been, like they haven't figured this out. Do

1:02:17

you think it has something

1:02:17

to do with like the resources

1:02:20

and training and love investigating

1:02:22

back and forth? back in the back of the country that

1:02:25

exists in a place like that versus a

1:02:28

big city. Is that a real thing? It is 100% a real

1:02:30

thing. But here's the thing. If

1:02:33

that's the case, what you do is you can

1:02:36

call in state agencies. You can call in

1:02:38

federal agencies for assistance. They will step up.

1:02:40

If you're the kind of agency or the kind of person

1:02:42

who's running the executive of the agency

1:02:44

is like, no, we got this, and like

1:02:47

the John Bonave case, and they clearly don't got

1:02:49

it, then that also means you suck. I mean, either

1:02:51

way, like, I just think this was, should have been

1:02:53

an eminently solvable case that investigators

1:02:56

did botch. Yeah.

1:02:57

The other thing to consider with Shane

1:02:59

is that if he is convinced that

1:03:02

his wife and unborn

1:03:04

child are dead because of something that did have

1:03:06

to do with him, if it was some

1:03:08

sort of beef that went back to him,

1:03:11

it would also illustrate why he's so

1:03:13

driven to keep pushing the case forward

1:03:15

because probably when's

1:03:16

the last time he slept?

1:03:19

Like if he honestly, that something

1:03:21

that he did cost her life, then

1:03:24

I would be pushing the case too, just because

1:03:26

how do you deal, how do you

1:03:28

live with that guilt? It would still mean

1:03:30

he did, but he feels like some- It would still mean

1:03:33

he didn't do it. At some point- He didn't do it. Is

1:03:35

the reason why it happened. Like that's gotta be

1:03:37

a lot to carry around. That's quite a burden.

1:03:39

Shane didn't really speak publicly

1:03:42

for many years. He

1:03:44

also had a really big, I don't

1:03:46

know if they talked about this in the Couple Bowl podcast,

1:03:48

but he had a really big lawsuit to get

1:03:50

the Jeep back. Yeah, they did.

1:03:53

It was 2017. They

1:03:55

had his car since the

1:03:57

accident and he wanted it

1:03:59

back. and that he was saying, which

1:04:02

I thought was interesting, they were saying, no, that's evidence.

1:04:04

And he was saying, keep the casing,

1:04:07

keep the window, keep anything

1:04:09

that is evidence. And then people thought

1:04:11

it was really suspicious that he was

1:04:13

fighting for his car back. And

1:04:16

then

1:04:16

he paints a picture that the car means so

1:04:18

much more than just a car, that that's where

1:04:20

he had really met, that there were, you

1:04:22

know, he and his dad bonded

1:04:24

over making Jeeps and she loved

1:04:26

that Jeep. And I think that car

1:04:29

belonged either to his father or his grandfather. There

1:04:31

was some sentimentality to that. It wasn't

1:04:33

like he had just bought it himself. It had been

1:04:35

passed down to him from his dad or granddad. Well, it

1:04:37

was a 2000. It wasn't like vintage

1:04:40

or anything. Right, but still. And like if it's your

1:04:42

dad's, you know, never known.

1:04:43

But he said it was a lot of happy

1:04:45

memories that he wasn't willing to let go of because

1:04:48

of the one

1:04:49

bad thing that happened in it, which I was sort

1:04:51

of like, well, it's a big bad thing. Like someone

1:04:53

broke their collarbone. Yeah. It

1:04:55

was a really, really, really bad thing. But

1:04:58

he did win that lawsuit. The other thing

1:05:00

that's probably worth mentioning with regards to the

1:05:02

family is he also applied for financial

1:05:05

assistance that you can get in the event of a sudden

1:05:07

death when there's no insurance involved and

1:05:10

was granted $50,000. Yeah.

1:05:14

He gave seven

1:05:16

to the funeral home to cover

1:05:18

exactly half

1:05:19

of the expenses of the funeral, that

1:05:22

the family covered the other half and kept

1:05:24

the rest.

1:05:24

I had never heard of that.

1:05:26

He applied for some violent

1:05:29

crime victim financial

1:05:31

assistance or something. Had you guys heard

1:05:33

of that before? He got $50,000. In

1:05:36

the state. Yeah. I know a different state. There are,

1:05:38

I have heard of funds like that before. Like, yeah,

1:05:40

there are funds like that. I don't know how, but I think they're like

1:05:42

state specific. Not that I think it's a bad

1:05:45

thing. It's great. You know, if the family needs

1:05:47

it, it, needs it for funeral expenses, outstanding

1:05:49

medical bills, but they didn't have outstanding

1:05:51

medical bills. Well, Aubrey

1:05:53

had many, many surgeries.

1:05:54

That's true. She was on

1:05:56

like Medicaid. It was all covered.

1:05:59

Okay.

1:05:59

Basically,

1:06:00

he just, he pocketed the majority

1:06:02

of that cash. Yeah. Family.

1:06:03

What do you think about that? I think he was entitled

1:06:05

to it. He did. He probably was like, there's no love

1:06:08

lost here. They

1:06:09

don't like me. They think I killed her. Why

1:06:11

am I gonna give him? Why

1:06:12

am I gonna give him? What do you think about his sentimentality

1:06:15

to the G? Do you buy it? From

1:06:19

a guy who goes to work, works out

1:06:21

for three hours and goes to bed, maybe, maybe.

1:06:24

Yeah. I mean, I think that's hard to gauge.

1:06:26

I just think, I mean, I'm more concerned about

1:06:28

like the facts. Does this alibi check out or not?

1:06:30

You know, there's no gun residue on him. James and

1:06:32

I are just a little more emotional over here. Okay.

1:06:36

You're not quite convinced about his alibi

1:06:38

either. That's the thing, right, Ellen? My understanding

1:06:41

is that it did actually check out. Not everybody

1:06:43

is checking out his alibi. Not

1:06:45

everybody is going down, like

1:06:48

going to Vegas with his alibi. I

1:06:50

don't feel like he did

1:06:53

it. I don't

1:06:53

feel like he pulled the trigger. I

1:06:55

think the people that question his alibi

1:06:58

are like saying that it felt a little performative.

1:07:00

And the reason they don't trust the alibi is

1:07:02

because it was such a planned alibi

1:07:05

as opposed to yes, I think

1:07:07

it's documented that he was at that gym and people

1:07:10

saw him and that all checked out. But the

1:07:12

fact that he stayed there for so long, I think

1:07:14

is why people were questioning.

1:07:15

But did he still but was that a pattern? Is that what he did every

1:07:18

day? Like we don't have any Yeah, but did he

1:07:20

backs it up by saying this is what I did. This is my

1:07:23

if that was his pattern, that's fine. Which is weird

1:07:25

because everybody is different but

1:07:27

every parent I know who goes

1:07:30

to the gym is like I gotta get

1:07:32

my workout, get you know my steam

1:07:34

room, have a pee in the shower and then

1:07:37

get home. Oh no, Ellen. They're all

1:07:39

boys. Boys are disgusting. They're gross. Multipet

1:07:42

again. But also

1:07:44

it just seemed like it was in no hurry to get home.

1:07:47

I know, look I'm at the gym every single day but I

1:07:49

am in and out because I don't got time because I'm a good

1:07:51

mom. I like how you just slid that in there. I liked him

1:07:53

every single day. I met the gym. I'm

1:07:56

a warrior. Well, but

1:07:58

there are people who are there every...

1:08:00

day. There are people who are like, if I'm here in the morning,

1:08:02

you're here. If I'm here in the evening, you're here. There are people who

1:08:04

literally just search a gym around. We get it,

1:08:06

Rabia. You're hot. Okay.

1:08:08

We get it. Oh my God. Do you see

1:08:11

this part? She's constantly like, Ellen,

1:08:13

watch me flex. Watch me flex.

1:08:16

Wait, but here's my thing, Rabia. You want to

1:08:18

go back to the facts. And we talked

1:08:20

about this before the episode. The exhaustingly

1:08:23

irritating part of this case is

1:08:26

the facts are very limited. So

1:08:28

what else do we have to

1:08:30

go on? How are they ever going to catch

1:08:32

who did this to Brittany? Well, I'll tell you what

1:08:34

I think they're going to do. I think the technology they're

1:08:36

using right now is going to be

1:08:37

like, they're probably trying to get information

1:08:39

from all the different cell phone companies to

1:08:42

see who all's phones were

1:08:44

in the area at the time. Do you locate

1:08:46

anybody who was in the area who could have been within

1:08:48

range and then just kind of like work backwards

1:08:51

from from there, get this list of people. I

1:08:53

mean, that's the only thing I can think about. That's

1:08:55

the only thing I can think of in terms of like new technology

1:08:57

that could help them solve this. I think there's probably a lot of

1:09:00

facts and we just don't know them. And that's one of the frustrations

1:09:02

for me about this case was that I kept like, I was

1:09:04

like, where's the source documents? There are none and there

1:09:06

will be none online. So James, we,

1:09:09

every week in our show, we provide

1:09:11

as many source documents

1:09:11

for our listeners as possible. Like

1:09:14

police reports, witness statements. Police reports when

1:09:16

we did Malcolm X, we had declassified FBI

1:09:18

documents. We try and get autopsies.

1:09:21

There is so little available

1:09:23

information about

1:09:25

this case. Rabia, this is like

1:09:27

the least amount of actual physical

1:09:29

evidence out of any case. It's an open case, that's

1:09:32

why. And I get that. I mean,

1:09:34

they shouldn't be putting stuff out there until it's

1:09:36

closed. Yeah. This can blow us off

1:09:38

like this. No, but can I ask you, how do you guys feel about

1:09:41

my theory though, that this might not have been targeted,

1:09:43

this could have been a random act. It could have

1:09:45

even been a complete

1:09:46

accident or an idiot just shoot, like a kid shooting

1:09:48

off a gun from the side of the road. Wait, I

1:09:51

can't do the side of the road thing because there's no

1:09:53

way that a moving target can get

1:09:55

hit five times with any kind

1:09:58

of gun that's not like an

1:10:00

AR-15, is that what it's called? An AR-15?

1:10:02

We don't know it wasn't that. We don't know it wasn't

1:10:04

that. But here's my question. One more

1:10:07

thing was that Shane

1:10:10

said that Britney had

1:10:12

gotten into some kind

1:10:14

of an argument with someone at a gas station

1:10:17

that morning. Remember that, James? There

1:10:19

was

1:10:19

a van that ran her

1:10:21

off the road. The reason the Tommy story

1:10:24

had so much traction was

1:10:26

it kind of matched up. Do you remember

1:10:28

about that? The Silver Mini

1:10:30

van ran her off the road, both

1:10:32

cars stopped,

1:10:34

words were exchanged, and then

1:10:36

the van drove off.

1:10:38

She texted her buddy in very

1:10:41

colorful language. This person

1:10:43

just ran me off the road, I can't believe it didn't tell Shane.

1:10:46

Shane found out later, I

1:10:48

think from the friend or something that

1:10:50

had occurred. But it's strange

1:10:53

that on the day that she was killed,

1:10:55

she had a run-in like that, definitely.

1:10:58

would someone go and say, hey,

1:11:00

let's go get some guns and kill

1:11:02

this lady? We know that that happens all

1:11:04

the time with gangs, gang violence. All

1:11:06

you gotta do is spill a drink on somebody in a club

1:11:09

and you end up having your car shot until 100%.

1:11:11

I mean, people get killed in road rage stuff

1:11:13

too. It could have been a, I don't know what the altercation

1:11:16

was about, but. And again, in such a small

1:11:18

community, there was obviously no

1:11:20

recognition there wasn't someone that

1:11:22

she knew. So it was just a couple

1:11:25

of thugs passing through town

1:11:27

and this woman

1:11:28

pissed him off and they didn't like it,

1:11:31

they could have gone back and killed her. If you had

1:11:34

to give a theory today, what would it be?

1:11:37

If I had to give a theory today, I

1:11:39

would say you have to point

1:11:41

at the mystery person that

1:11:43

Shane is still so convinced. Mm-hmm.

1:11:46

The person

1:11:46

with it. Because if that person is,

1:11:49

in fact, a person of interest and

1:11:51

hasn't been cleared, well, there's

1:11:53

more smoke, There's generally more

1:11:56

smoke at least.

1:11:57

So I would say if that... the

1:12:00

person that

1:12:01

they're kind of they put all their eggs in

1:12:03

that basket and that's where the majority of the

1:12:05

energy and the resources and the investigation are

1:12:08

headed, they

1:12:08

must think that they have

1:12:11

something. But both of you riddle me this.

1:12:13

James, do you have kids? I do not, but

1:12:15

I do have kids. What's that baby? They're

1:12:18

so cute. What's his name? Claude.

1:12:21

Oh, I love animals with human names. Like from

1:12:23

hair. If someone hurt

1:12:25

either of your partners or loved

1:12:27

ones, now, because I have to ask you You are both

1:12:30

highly rational people, it seems,

1:12:32

and I am, you know, in space.

1:12:34

Still see a change, too. Yeah,

1:12:36

exactly. No, I just, in

1:12:39

what world do you not say,

1:12:41

everybody

1:12:41

gather around with a microphone

1:12:44

and let me tell you who this son of a bitch is

1:12:47

and let's put pressure in that 10 years you're

1:12:50

sitting on the person. In the world that you don't

1:12:52

want to get sued for defamation and slander, girl.

1:12:54

I'm like, you'll get, I mean, keep. But if you knew.

1:12:57

as long as he provided the name to the investigators, that's a

1:12:59

responsible thing to do. It would be really

1:13:01

crazy

1:13:01

for him to do that. Because sitting, I

1:13:04

would not be able to get

1:13:06

a night's rest. Also, what if

1:13:08

he's like, he's going to take me out next?

1:13:10

You'd be scared. I just don't, I don't know. I just, I

1:13:12

can't imagine sitting for 10 years,

1:13:14

you know, looking at that guy, going to the

1:13:16

same pigly wiggly, seeing him

1:13:19

and being like, that's the guy. It would just eat

1:13:21

me inside. I

1:13:22

don't understand that. What piece of

1:13:24

evidence are they waiting for? Like, that's... That's

1:13:26

the question. Like, what

1:13:29

what you is going to drop when they're finally

1:13:31

like, all right, we got them. Exactly.

1:13:33

I just don't get I that is

1:13:36

again, I know I'm I know I'm emotional, Rabia,

1:13:38

but I just can't imagine

1:13:40

not, you know, ringing every

1:13:42

alarm and sitting for 10 years.

1:13:46

Look, girl, I've been told for 23 years, don't say who

1:13:48

you think killed him in late. Like, you can't you can't because

1:13:51

you're gonna get sued, you are gonna get sued,

1:13:53

you're gonna get sued. But do you say it anyway? Yeah,

1:13:56

I always say this, that if I headed the investigation,

1:13:58

the suspects I would look

1:14:00

at first to eliminate would be these people.

1:14:02

And I have two at the top of my list. I say it all the time.

1:14:04

Those are the two suspects that were not properly eliminated.

1:14:07

That's what I say. I don't say I think X person

1:14:09

killed. And I think that's safe. That is legally

1:14:12

safe to do. But that's not somebody who put

1:14:14

a bullet through your baby's forehead. But this

1:14:16

random list, if we combine Ravi's

1:14:18

randomness theory with the person that ran her off

1:14:21

the road, if they were crazy gang

1:14:24

people or whatever. Dangerous people. And

1:14:26

they said, said, we're going to go we're going to kill that bitch because

1:14:28

she yelled ugly things to us. Maybe

1:14:30

they needed to go get the

1:14:32

weapons that they were going to use to do it.

1:14:34

Maybe they waited for on

1:14:37

that road to come back to the opposite direction.

1:14:39

The other thing they might not

1:14:41

have known is that there was a child in the car

1:14:44

because car seat levels,

1:14:46

they never saw inside, which means they wouldn't have

1:14:48

actually known they were shooting at a

1:14:51

child at all. There's

1:14:52

something about the randomness of that

1:14:55

that helps me wrap my brain around it as

1:14:57

opposed to someone knowing that they were going to kill

1:14:59

a woman who was driving a one year old. So

1:15:02

they didn't know that we're the one year old in that car, because

1:15:04

they never saw one year old, they just thought they were

1:15:06

killing a woman pissed them off. And

1:15:08

they're awful killers. And maybe they

1:15:10

waited and they waited for her to

1:15:12

drive back on a stretch of road where there would be no

1:15:14

witnesses and they know,

1:15:17

I know, there's a lot we don't know because they're not telling

1:15:20

us. I think at this point the police probably

1:15:22

have a lot more information about the direction of the bullets.

1:15:26

Even the directionality of the bullets hit

1:15:28

her slightly upward. Maybe somebody was in the embankment.

1:15:31

I just think there's a lot of information

1:15:33

that we don't know. And I

1:15:35

actually think that this case is going to get solved. I

1:15:37

really do think so. So then if you

1:15:39

had to solve it right now, James, Rabia, what

1:15:42

is your solution? Solution?

1:15:44

How do you solve the case? What happened? Tell us what

1:15:47

happened.

1:15:47

are targeted. Just let's let's James random

1:15:50

or targeted. Where do you land on there? We've

1:15:51

got you for two more minutes. Yeah,

1:15:55

I would say it's 60% targeted, 40% right.

1:16:00

Are you fully on random, Rabia?

1:16:02

I am fully on random, yeah. And

1:16:04

I think even if it was the people who she might have

1:16:07

had an altercation with, to me also, they

1:16:09

might have targeted her on that day. I

1:16:11

don't believe in the premeditated theory

1:16:13

of somebody was... There was a

1:16:16

debt owed and vendettas. I don't believe

1:16:18

that. But I actually am mostly on board with

1:16:21

somebody on the side of the road shooting a gun

1:16:23

like an idiot and hitting this car, this yellow...

1:16:26

I mean, we have no idea how far she was going. She could have

1:16:28

been going 25 miles an hour. That's where I land.

1:16:30

But I actually think this case was good. I think

1:16:32

the investigators are gonna solve this case. I agree that

1:16:34

they're gonna solve but I

1:16:36

think it was targeted. I do.

1:16:38

I think it was targeted and I wish

1:16:40

that she some fuzzy socks. I

1:16:43

wish them all the luck in solving this

1:16:45

and I cannot wait to talk to the family

1:16:48

and yeah, that's where I land. But James

1:16:50

Roday, we are so happy

1:16:53

that you came and thank you for

1:16:55

your empathy and for choosing this

1:16:57

case. I love that you chose this

1:16:59

case

1:17:00

and that it's a little bit more under

1:17:02

everyone's radar So we can get some more eyes

1:17:04

and ears on the case for this family.

1:17:06

I love that

1:17:07

you're talking to the family That's that's

1:17:09

great for you to and thank you for doing that And

1:17:11

I'm sure they're gonna be really appreciative as well

1:17:14

and I'll be listening to so

1:17:15

I hope you have a great Next

1:17:18

few months respite as you decide

1:17:20

what to do next what? Mountains

1:17:23

to climb next but where can folks find you online?

1:17:25

Let's see Well, I've got six or seven

1:17:27

episodes left of the little things so

1:17:29

you

1:17:29

can you can watch those I think those are

1:17:32

Such a horrible self-apart. I think

1:17:34

it's on Wednesday nights. I know it's on

1:17:36

ABC and I believe it's Wednesday nights

1:17:39

I don't know what time it comes on But

1:17:41

I think we're about we're about halfway through the final

1:17:43

season So there's that I recently

1:17:45

got hacked on Twitter by someone

1:17:48

who was using real Twitter

1:17:50

emails but then text

1:17:53

was the hacker

1:17:54

and I was distracted and watching the

1:17:57

NCAA tournament, which is, you know, a

1:17:59

fair... So you clicked it

1:18:01

and you followed the whole thing. I clicked

1:18:03

it. I ended up typing in a code and then

1:18:05

I got a text that said, you can

1:18:07

have it back for 25K Bitcoin.

1:18:10

Oh my gosh.

1:18:14

Whichever played, I'm good. You

1:18:16

heard it here. James Roday has Bitcoin

1:18:19

everybody. If you need to... Where

1:18:22

is Twitter? You need to call the folks at Twitter to fix

1:18:25

this. They can get it

1:18:25

back for you. You know what? I

1:18:28

did. I did send a thing. out of form, we'll

1:18:30

see what happens. But the truth is, if

1:18:32

I'm no longer on Twitter, I completely

1:18:37

get off of Twitter in 2024. Yeah. Yeah.

1:18:39

But I am my name. I met James

1:18:41

O'Day on Instagram. I don't post

1:18:43

much, but if you want to see some

1:18:46

pictures of

1:18:47

very handsome dogs, you can go

1:18:49

there. That's awesome. Thank you all so much

1:18:52

for grabbing me on and shining a light on this

1:18:53

case. Thanks for picking me. It's a great

1:18:55

case. Thank you. We hope to see you soon, and thank

1:18:58

you so much. We appreciate it. You've been

1:19:00

an awesome guest. Thank you so much for coming on, for

1:19:02

saying yes. Yes. And thank you to your partner.

1:19:05

We love her.

1:19:05

Absolutely. I will try. All

1:19:07

right. Thanks, James.

1:19:12

So, Ellen, we landed on completely opposite

1:19:14

sides on this case. I know. I

1:19:16

do agree, though. I do believe that they will solve

1:19:19

it. And obviously, there's

1:19:21

no winning here. Right. But

1:19:24

I am right.

1:19:26

Yeah. So we'll see. But

1:19:30

we thank James Roday so much

1:19:32

for coming. I am really consumed

1:19:34

by this case. And I mean what I said at

1:19:36

the top. If you want to dive more in, culpable

1:19:39

as Dennis Cooper is the host. And

1:19:42

also we should say that anyone with

1:19:44

information about Brittany's murder

1:19:47

is asked to call the Brown County Sheriff's

1:19:49

Office at 937-378-4435. You can ask

1:19:52

for Detective Quinn Carlson

1:19:54

and his extension is 1-2-3. Now

1:20:00

there is

1:20:03

a $50,000 reward for information

1:20:05

leading to the arrest of the person

1:20:07

who killed Britney but just a handful

1:20:09

of months ago that reward was $20,000. Do

1:20:13

you know who added the 30, Rabia?

1:20:15

No, who did? The people who produced

1:20:18

the culpable podcast, Tenderfoot

1:20:20

TV and Resident Recordings

1:20:22

added $30,000 to that reward making it $50,000. Good

1:20:28

people, man. leading

1:20:30

to the arrest. Pain

1:20:32

is a wonderful person, by the way. Leading to

1:20:34

find out who happened, and the family

1:20:36

was so very touched, and we

1:20:38

are going to have an opportunity to chat

1:20:40

with them. So stay tuned for part two

1:20:43

when we talk to the Dodson family,

1:20:45

and tell them where they can find us, Rabia. They

1:20:48

can find us at Rabia and Ellen on

1:20:50

Instagram. We have a private Facebook group.

1:20:52

I think it's called Rabia and Ellen, it's called The

1:20:54

Case. That's the name of our podcast. Good job,

1:20:56

Rabia. It is. And you know what? Here's the thing,

1:20:59

I have noticed sometimes

1:21:00

people want to get in the group, but they don't answer all the

1:21:02

questions. You guys got to answer all the questions that

1:21:04

will let you in. We have to make sure there's no bots

1:21:06

among us. Yes, and so we're going to have

1:21:08

to decline you. So if you've been declined, try again,

1:21:10

answer all the questions and join us there with

1:21:12

a Patreon. Yeah, join us

1:21:14

on our Patreon. We have three levels,

1:21:17

everything including ad-free episodes,

1:21:20

to getting episodes early. We

1:21:22

have an early access option. We also

1:21:24

have an option where we are going to do

1:21:27

a monthly Zoom where we just sit and

1:21:29

hang out. We ask questions, talk,

1:21:31

chat, maybe we'll do watch parties, but

1:21:33

that is all available on patreon.com.

1:21:36

When you look up Rabia and Ellen,

1:21:38

we have tons of bonus content. We have extras

1:21:41

for you. It's all there at every

1:21:43

price point. And if you want more of

1:21:45

us, we'd love to see you on the Patreon. And

1:21:47

we'll hopefully see a lot of you in Atlanta, May

1:21:49

4th. And May 4th, yes,

1:21:52

our live show, 8 p.m. at

1:21:54

the punchline in Atlanta.

1:21:57

and we will be with our dear friend, Payne.

1:22:00

It's gonna be a blast. And

1:22:02

if you have anything to email or

1:22:04

ask us, you can email us at Rabia

1:22:06

and Ellen at Gmail. You can also leave

1:22:08

us a voicemail at speakpipe slash

1:22:11

solve the case. And Rabia

1:22:13

wears socks to bed and she's

1:22:15

a weirdo. Okay bye, okay bye, log off. Okay

1:22:18

bye, bye bye bye bye bye. Do you know who else is gonna be

1:22:20

in Atlanta? I just found out. Rebecca Lavoie.

1:22:22

Yes. Our girl Rebecca

1:22:24

Lavoie, who has a lot to say

1:22:27

about owls. That's all I'll say. But

1:22:29

until

1:22:30

then, thank you all so much for listening and

1:22:32

hang on for part two. Love you guys. Love

1:22:34

you Ellen. Love you.

1:22:36

Bye. Okay.

1:22:52

Trying to grab all the groceries in one trip. Not

1:22:55

how you would have done that. You know sometimes

1:22:58

less is more. Like when you drive less and save

1:23:00

with the USAA annual mileage discount.

1:23:03

USA Act get a quote today.