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Sometimes a single performance can

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Hendrix's fiery woodstock National Anthem or

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Biance's homecoming at Coachella. Coming up

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on Switched On Pop, we're exploring

0:10

artists who've had recent transformative live

0:13

shows. First is Missy Elliott, who

0:15

recently put on her first world

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tour where she taught everybody to

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get the freak on. And then

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there's her collaborator Timbalin, who recently

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evolved from Beatmaker to orchestra conductor

0:26

at the Songwriter Hall of Fame.

0:28

And then Lady Gaga, whose chromatic

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ball featured a theatrical museum of

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brutality revealing the darker side of Gagga's

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mayhem. Listen to these live moments on

0:37

Switched on Pop wherever you get podcast.

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brought to you by Defender. The new

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bucket for 25. prices and participation

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vary while supply glass, taxes,

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tips, and fees extra. Welcome to

1:14

Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway. And

1:17

I'm Jessica Tarlove. Jess, so this is

1:19

going to be like every other show.

1:21

You're going to have to carry it.

1:24

I got home at about 2 a.m.

1:26

last night for Mexico, very jet-lagged, was

1:28

up to 4, to Gazanics, and I

1:30

woke up about 10 minutes ago. And I'm

1:32

feeling a little, I'm feeling a little, I

1:35

don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

1:37

And I'm looking for people to do my

1:39

work for me. And I have just absolutely

1:41

no understanding of my surroundings or the current

1:43

situation. So back to you, Jess, what's going

1:46

on? Okay, well, do you want to do

1:48

a whole show about what it was like

1:50

with little kids this weekend, since you

1:52

don't have the strength to fight me on

1:54

this? And I can tell you about having

1:57

my first fight with my husband about

1:59

parenting. front of other couples

2:01

with kids the same age. Did

2:03

you guys ever do this? It's

2:05

very uncomfortable and they probably think

2:07

we're getting divorced. So uncomfortable fights

2:09

are just part of it. Yeah,

2:11

just lean in. Yeah, just lean

2:13

in and what was the let

2:15

me help. So I'm very good

2:17

at running other people's lives. Give

2:19

me the situation out to you

2:21

who is right, who is wrong

2:23

and what you need to do.

2:25

Okay, we're in a public place.

2:27

It is quiet. But... People are

2:29

eating. So we're in like the

2:31

cafeteria part of a whole foods,

2:33

having lunch with three, three-year-olds and

2:35

the respective parents. The kids start

2:37

being really loud. Disrupting other people,

2:39

for sure. There are other kids

2:41

there, but they're not making noise.

2:43

They're younger than ours are. So

2:45

they're like in strollers just kind

2:47

of chilling, but people are working.

2:50

People are having low conversations. Anyway,

2:52

they start doing ring around the

2:54

rosy, real loud. My husband has

2:56

a very low threshold for this.

2:58

He also reflexively hands over his

3:00

phone for screen time. I feel

3:02

like he pushes screen time on

3:04

my child. But we're also with

3:06

two other families that don't do

3:08

screen time at all. So he

3:10

starts offering up his phone to

3:12

my daughter. I'm pushing back so

3:14

you can't do that because these

3:16

other kids, you can't even give

3:18

one kid a snack that the

3:20

other kids can't have. Anyway. It

3:22

got bad, you know, and they

3:24

the dads were intervening saying you

3:26

know you can't do this We

3:28

distracted them with food a little

3:30

bit, but there was big back

3:32

and forth and he said this

3:34

is the hill that I am

3:36

willing to die on you can't

3:38

disrupt other people's lives Because of

3:40

your children, so Who's right? Who's

3:42

wrong? Who's moving out? Who gets

3:44

to keep the house? Sure. No,

3:46

I understand. I understand. No, the

3:48

real fissure here is between you

3:50

and horrible couples who are those

3:52

couples who decide they're not giving

3:54

their kids screen time. Those are

3:56

awful people. No, they're not. They're

3:58

lovely and they're kids. kids aren't

4:00

addicted to screens. They don't yell

4:03

out for mawana in their sleep.

4:05

Yeah, those are the, you know, those

4:07

are the people that, oh, it's parenting

4:09

and they shouldn't have screen time. Those

4:11

are awful people. You need, you need

4:13

better friends too. The real key here

4:16

is you need to start hitting

4:18

your children. That immediately

4:20

resets the operating system and

4:22

brings a moment of shock, but

4:24

a moment of peace to everything. And

4:27

I'm in favor of. Giving them

4:29

screen touch. So first off, I

4:31

totally empathize. I go absolutely crazy

4:34

when our kids, my kids or

4:36

other kids, are loud and

4:38

distracting. If they're really loud

4:40

and distracting, I think you

4:42

take them outside and separate

4:44

them from the rest of the

4:46

crew. I have no patience for that.

4:48

Also, it's a very difficult

4:51

situation. I'm actually, I'm now

4:53

being serious because the reality

4:55

is. My gig accused of this a lot

4:58

and that is I decide I

5:00

understand parenting when it's bothering me,

5:02

but I'm not interested in participating

5:04

in parenting when everything's fine. And so

5:06

it's a little bit like selective,

5:08

selective parenting. But I think it's, I think

5:10

you're gonna, the good news is this is

5:12

only going to happen to you about every

5:15

two weeks for the restroom marriage until the

5:17

kids are out of the house. So, I

5:19

think, and also I think your husband needs

5:21

to realize as it relates to parenting, he's

5:23

an influencer, not a decision maker. I have

5:26

generally found, which is a bit of an

5:28

abdication, and I want to acknowledge that, but

5:30

I've generally found that mom has just much

5:32

better instincts around how to handle this stuff

5:35

than dad. I'm a sexist that way. I'll

5:37

provide input around parenting decisions, and then mom

5:39

gets to make the decision, because I find

5:41

she's just much more in tune with the

5:43

kids. But yeah, the way the kids

5:46

behave in public is absolutely a point

5:48

of tension from me because I think

5:50

what he's doing is just I think

5:52

he's reflecting on his own shortcomings

5:54

as a parent. Thank you. He feels as a

5:56

man. He's a disciplinarian and when the

5:58

kids are out of control. troll it's a

6:00

poor reflection on him. He also grew

6:03

up hypersensitive to this apparently. So I

6:05

and I get it my dad used

6:07

to just pick us up and take

6:10

us out of restaurants and say like

6:12

Judy my mom you know get the

6:14

check we'll be outside and that's the

6:16

end of it which I would have

6:19

understand I mean this wasn't you know

6:21

like a high-end restaurant we were in

6:23

the public space at Whole Foods but

6:25

I take the point anyway we ended

6:28

up in a good place. And I

6:30

appreciate your sexism when it's going in

6:32

a feminist direction, that you should try

6:34

to always hang in that direction. But

6:37

anyway, that was basically my weekend. Yeah,

6:39

I know. It's, so just, just recognize

6:41

that kids ruin everything. Kids are the

6:43

best thing that could happen to you

6:46

that will ruin your life, and it

6:48

does put a huge strain, I have

6:50

found. There's actually, just to be serious

6:52

for a moment. All the studies on

6:55

happiness show that you're at least happy

6:57

years or the years you're in, 25

6:59

to 45 specifically around child yearing. You'll

7:01

look back on the period we have

7:04

young children at home and reflect on

7:06

that as the happiest time of your

7:08

life. But what's interesting is in the

7:10

moment people without children are actually happier

7:13

on average than people with children because

7:15

of instances like this. But as they

7:17

get older, I do find it gets

7:19

easier and easier. Years are... Yours are

7:22

11 and 9? Three and not even

7:24

one. Have we met? Oh, you did?

7:26

Okay, that's a Mexico hangover joke? Okay.

7:28

Yeah, no, it gets, it gets, it

7:31

gets, it gets, it gets, uh, it

7:33

gets better. I know, there's a very,

7:35

I don't know, there's a very, I

7:37

don't know if it counts as a

7:40

meme, I don't know what the definition

7:42

of a meat miss, but anyway, something

7:44

that was passed around, all night until

7:46

we fall asleep. That's really nice. Yeah,

7:49

it's very sweet and very accurate. All

7:51

right, before we dive in, in a

7:53

quick announcement, Jess and I are taking

7:55

the show live. We are literally, we

7:58

are literally woke royalty ride. We are

8:00

the grand, we are literally the,

8:02

the Duchess of Wokistan now.

8:04

We're partnering with, get this, the

8:07

92nd Street Y in New York for

8:09

a special event on Thursday,

8:11

April 17th, that's right, Thursday, April

8:13

17th, and you can grab

8:15

your tickets right now, the link is

8:18

in the show notes, trust us, you

8:20

don't want to miss this one.

8:22

Literally, I've been working my ass

8:24

off for 30 years and I'm

8:26

an overnight woke success because of

8:29

you, Jess. This is literally, like, I

8:31

feel like Patrick Moynihan is,

8:33

it could emerge from his crypt,

8:35

and who's the wokest person, every,

8:37

literally, we are, we are woke

8:39

royalty now. We're speaking at the

8:42

92nd wall, your thoughts. I would

8:44

love it if Daniel Patrick Moynihan

8:46

could come in chill with

8:48

us. I heard he's not doing that

8:50

well. I'm so excited. I grew up

8:52

in the city here and the 92nd Street

8:55

Y has always held some

8:57

of the most interesting and

8:59

exciting programming and where everyone

9:01

wants to go to be able

9:03

if they have a book coming

9:06

out or for serious conversations on

9:08

what's going on future of the

9:10

country and was totally floored when they

9:12

sent the email. I didn't know. It

9:15

was like when a boy that you

9:17

liked text you and you think

9:19

like how long... Should I wait to reply

9:21

when we got that email? I was like,

9:23

is four seconds too long to wait with

9:25

the unequivocal? Yes, I will do anything to

9:28

do this. It's a little daunting for me

9:30

because we we did a live show right

9:32

after we launched with like 100 people. This

9:34

is many more people than that, but

9:36

you say it's going to be fine. So

9:39

I'm just leaning in to your experience, but

9:41

it feels very special and exciting. And I

9:43

hope if whoever's listening, if you guys are

9:45

in the New York area that you'll get

9:47

tickets and. and come see us live at

9:50

the 92nd Street Y. Yeah, just as moment

9:52

of excitement. Let me just let me just relate

9:54

that or make it relatable to the 98% of

9:56

us that weren't really attractive in high school. It's

9:58

like when you found out you got an 80th

10:00

percentile in the SAT and he

10:02

said, oh, I might get into

10:04

UC Irvine. Anyways, but we feel

10:06

you, but this is so, this

10:08

is so exciting. I'm waiting for

10:10

the fallout of my other co-host,

10:13

Kara Swisher. She and I have

10:15

not been invited in 92nd Street

10:17

Web. But anyways, come see both,

10:19

come see both at the 92nd

10:21

Street Y. This is very exciting

10:23

on April 17th. Today, in today,

10:25

in today's episode of raging moderates,

10:27

we're discussing a Democrats' fury over

10:30

Schumer's vote on the spending bill.

10:32

Trump challenging the courts on deportations

10:34

and the latest on Ukraine-Russia ceasefire

10:36

talks. All right, let's jump into

10:38

it last week as the clock

10:40

ran down to a potential government

10:42

shutdown. Senator Leader Chuck Schumer found

10:44

himself in a tough spot trying

10:47

to balance a divided democratic party.

10:49

His unexpected decision to support the

10:51

GOP stopgap funding bill sparked major

10:53

backlash from House Democrats and members

10:55

of his own caucus. who wanted

10:57

a stronger stand against Trump's agenda.

10:59

The bill itself slashes about $7

11:01

billion in overall spending from fiscal

11:04

2024 levels, cutting $13 billion from

11:06

non-defense discretionary programs while boosting defense

11:08

spending by $6 billion. With no

11:10

easy path forward, Schumer's choice has

11:12

left Democrats questioning their strategy for

11:14

the battles ahead in his volatile

11:16

political climate. Jess, what led to

11:18

Schumer's decision to back the GOP

11:21

funding bill? And do you think

11:23

him folding was a mystery? What

11:25

do you think? I'm very upset.

11:27

like most Democrats are and that's

11:29

not because I don't think that

11:31

we ended up in the correct

11:33

place because the calculation was what's

11:35

scarier the government being open and

11:38

them operating the way that we

11:40

know which is very bad but

11:42

We have an insight into it

11:44

versus the government is shut down

11:46

and then they get to make

11:48

the decisions on absolutely everything and

11:50

it doesn't become Donald Trump's government.

11:52

It doesn't become Elon Musk's government.

11:55

It becomes Russ votes government, the

11:57

guy who's running OMB, the guy

11:59

who... is the most dedicated

12:01

to destroying the federal government,

12:03

I think, of anyone in this

12:06

administration. And he would decide who's

12:08

essential and who's not. He could

12:10

close entire bureaucracies and Democrats were

12:12

worried about, well, how are we

12:15

even going to get these open

12:17

again? What is the path forward?

12:19

So I understand the conundrum

12:21

and I think ultimately probably

12:24

Schumer was right that the devil, you

12:26

know, is better. But the way he

12:28

went about this was totally feckless,

12:30

totally spiedless, he screwed over his

12:33

caucus. I mean, just 24 hours

12:35

before he said that he was

12:37

voting for the continuing resolution, he

12:39

said they don't have the votes.

12:41

And then all of these moderates,

12:44

all of these Democrats that are

12:46

in swing districts up for re-election,

12:48

like John Osov and Georgia for

12:50

instance. came out against the continuing

12:52

resolution, thinking that this was a

12:54

unified front like it was in

12:57

the House. There was only one

12:59

Democrat in the House, Jared Golden

13:01

from Maine, who voted for it.

13:03

Hakim Jeffries had the caucus absolutely

13:05

in line in this. And I

13:07

think it's ultimately, and we're

13:09

almost broken records about this,

13:12

there's such a tremendous messaging

13:14

problem about this continuing resolution.

13:16

If you went out and

13:18

asked people on the street, what

13:20

the continuing resolution is. Obviously most people

13:22

would say, I don't even know what

13:25

you're talking about, but the people who

13:27

did know would likely tell you that

13:29

this was a clean continuing resolution and

13:32

that it was just an extension of

13:34

the Biden Harris spending plan. That is

13:36

absolutely not true. It's chock full of

13:38

cuts that we don't want things, you

13:41

know, to veterans, social security benefits. It's

13:43

giving them more and more authority, you

13:45

know, we know that... The executive

13:47

is after having full control of

13:50

everything. They don't care about oversight.

13:52

They don't care about congressionally appropriated

13:54

money, etc. But that's the going narrative

13:57

on this. I'm seeing it on social

13:59

media from Smart. people actually who usually

14:01

are paying attention they're like well this

14:03

is a clean CR and we'll deal

14:05

with it in September when it's up

14:08

when they're going to try to jam

14:10

through their trillions of dollars in tax

14:12

cuts and take away you know nearly

14:14

900 billion in Medicaid funding. The way

14:17

that the Democrats played this or Schumer

14:19

played this, it was like it was

14:21

a surprise to them. We have known

14:23

for months that March 14th was the

14:26

drop-dead date on this. That that's when

14:28

this vote was going to happen. And

14:30

it's like they woke up four days

14:32

before and were like, oh, holy shit,

14:35

something's happening. The House is on fire.

14:37

How did you not spend months recasting

14:39

the continuing resolution as, you know, something

14:42

like the Doge Act? Right? Or, I

14:44

don't know, give it some fancy name,

14:46

you're the branding guy, maybe you can

14:48

come up with something better, but how

14:51

did you waste that opportunity? And then

14:53

how did you not also have your

14:55

own continuing resolution to put forward to

14:57

say, okay, let's work together on this,

15:00

spending the government should be bipartisan, which

15:02

is one of the lines from one

15:04

of Schumer's speeches, maybe when he was

15:06

wearing the really bad suit, and you

15:09

say, all right. If you guys are

15:11

going to maintain this as a clean

15:13

CR, let's show you what an actual

15:15

clean CR is and force them, force

15:18

them to accept some amendments that keep

15:20

the government, you know, reflective of at

15:22

least how it has been, even though

15:24

that's not ideal. And so we missed

15:27

on absolutely every opportunity. The voters are

15:29

incensed to a crazy level. The Democratic

15:31

approval is the lowest it's been in

15:33

30 years of polling, 29 percent or

15:36

something. And 65% of self-identified Democrats now

15:38

want our elected officials to stick to

15:40

their positions, even if this means not

15:42

getting things done in Washington. That's a

15:45

complete reversal of what we saw coming

15:47

into this, where people were saying, you

15:49

know, pick and choose your spots, work

15:52

with them where it makes sense. Now

15:54

they're saying this is war. I thought

15:56

that was great. So, yeah, the graph

15:58

that sort of indicates this is the

16:01

very beginning of the line. Trump administration

16:03

in 17, 74% of Democrats wanted Democrats

16:05

to work with Republicans and

16:08

get things done. That number is

16:10

now 42%. And there's a difference

16:12

between being effective and being right,

16:14

and right now we look neither.

16:17

It just, it looks as if

16:19

we are the game that can't

16:22

shoot straight between these ridiculous, feckless

16:24

attempts to... be angry at the

16:26

joint address or march down to

16:29

federal buildings and wave arcane. It's

16:31

clear the leadership is divided

16:33

and has no control over

16:35

the caucus. They're responding like,

16:38

one of the strategies that the

16:40

GRU sort of invented and that

16:42

Trump has adopted is flooding the

16:44

zone. Every day throw so much shit

16:46

out that they react to and chase that

16:49

we can slip through almost everything

16:51

because they're not unified. They don't

16:53

know where They don't know which

16:55

arrow to put their wood behind.

16:57

And so let's announce they're letting

16:59

the tape brothers back into Florida.

17:01

Everyone goes ape shit. Let's blame

17:03

a helicopter crash on the, everyone

17:05

goes ape shit. And they're not

17:07

looking at kind of the bigger

17:09

issues that America cares about or

17:11

they could actually have some reasonable

17:14

chance of pushing back on. America

17:16

quite funny over the last couple

17:18

weeks has been the nation of

17:20

surrender. Trump surrendering to Putin. and the

17:22

Democrats surrendering to Republicans.

17:24

And his argument was that,

17:26

look, Schumer's argument was that all we

17:29

were going to do here was play

17:31

into Trump and Musk's hands by closing

17:33

the government, shutting it down, everyone in

17:35

the government, or nearly everyone in the

17:37

government, would be furloughed except where he

17:39

could invoke some sort of emergency powers

17:42

to keep air traffic controllers, and effectively

17:44

never run the furlough, and essentially shut

17:46

down the government. And they didn't want

17:48

to let them do that. We're at that point where

17:50

we need to take that risk. and that is

17:52

the government is no longer a government of the

17:54

people when you are sending plants when you are

17:56

denying court orders when you have the richest man

17:58

in the world who has no congressional oversight

18:01

or approval going upstream of those programs

18:03

and cutting out funding to things like

18:05

USAID which by late assessments is going

18:08

to cost three million lives this here

18:10

then okay it's no longer a government

18:12

of the people you have usurped government

18:15

and we're going to we're not down

18:17

with that we are fine let's shut

18:19

down government and they also miscalculated I

18:22

listened to Senator Schumer on his follow-up

18:24

on the daily and he said that

18:26

effectively he thought okay this is without

18:29

it the entire government would be shut

18:31

down and we would be blamed no

18:33

we wouldn't if if we then

18:35

whatever it is 45 days of inauguration

18:38

or what is it 60 days now

18:40

the government is shut down people would

18:42

feel this and I believe they would

18:45

hold Trump responsible okay he's inaugurated and

18:47

the government gets shut down and

18:49

it's not reopening and people aren't getting

18:51

their diabetes medication and we're having trouble

18:54

with with flights and we're getting people

18:56

like getting their Social Security payments. This

18:58

was essentially the Democrat showing we are

19:01

so fucking disorganized. We have such

19:03

an inability to punch back. I mean,

19:05

for God's sakes, the first thing they

19:07

should do, it's like when I was

19:10

in Sunday school, they used to say,

19:12

what would Jesus do? That was meant

19:14

to be a framework for decisions.

19:16

What would Jesus do? And now my

19:19

attitude is for the Democrats. I am

19:21

so... fed up with their feckless stupid

19:23

rationalization of doing the weakest thing possible,

19:26

what would Mitch McConnell do? And what

19:28

Mitch McConnell would have done here

19:30

was said, this is an unacceptable policy,

19:32

unfortunately Americans, and you could show data

19:35

don't agree with what's going on in

19:37

the government. We'd like to work with

19:39

the president, but the Republican Party is

19:42

so off the rails in terms of

19:44

American priorities. We refuse to sign this

19:46

bill and force them to negotiating table.

19:49

And also there was... There was an

19:51

in between. There were several steps along

19:53

the way, including a filibuster where we

19:56

probably could have got some. I mean,

19:58

this literally is like, oh, our biggest...

20:00

fears about how just incredibly weak in

20:03

our inability to punch back because we

20:05

have really weak, unstrategic leaders

20:07

with absolutely no command of

20:10

their constituents, that all bubbled up

20:12

and said, yeah, your worst fears are

20:14

being realized here, that there is no

20:16

adult supervision. The kids are running

20:18

wild at the Whole Foods, and

20:20

there's nothing we can do. There's

20:22

no, there's absolutely, absolutely.

20:25

No parenting here and the

20:27

outcome here is I'm now convinced

20:29

that the new junior senator from

20:31

New York is going to be

20:33

AOC in 2028 I Think Schumer's

20:36

out. I think he looks so

20:38

incredibly weak. I'm just sick of

20:40

being bested by people have

20:42

control of their of their caucus

20:44

thoughts. So yeah, it doesn't seem

20:47

like Schumer being minority or let

20:49

alone majority leader again is an

20:51

idea that's long for this world.

20:54

You know, Hakim Jeffrey is basically

20:56

dodged a question about it. I

20:58

think Senator Warnock, also from Georgia,

21:01

made a comment, which was basically

21:03

like, I'm not backing this guy, especially

21:05

after he hung all of us out

21:07

to dry. There is precedent, and

21:09

you say, what would Mitch

21:11

McConnell doing this in 2021

21:14

under similar circumstances, Senate Republicans?

21:16

successfully filibustered on a continuing

21:18

resolution and they got some of

21:21

what they wanted. People just want

21:23

to see the fight, right? They just want

21:25

to see that there is a pulse

21:28

and that that pulse understands the existential

21:30

threat to the constitutional republic that we

21:32

are witnessing. And I hate to be

21:34

that girl, that screaming constitutional crisis,

21:37

but all of the evidence

21:39

is just sitting out there in front of

21:41

us and Bill Maher used to always say,

21:43

it's a slow moving coup. It's a slow

21:45

moving coup. This coup is so fast,

21:47

you saying Bolt wouldn't be able to

21:50

catch it at this point. Like, when you

21:52

look at the continuing resolution

21:54

and it's a six months,

21:56

right, that's a quote-unquote short-term

21:59

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26:07

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27:10

radio.com. Welcome back. The Trump administration

27:13

is facing sharp criticism after

27:15

ignoring a federal judge's order

27:17

to halt the deportation of

27:19

alleged Venezuelan gang members. The White House

27:21

argues the order came too late as

27:23

the planes were already over international waters.

27:25

It's weird, I heard planes can actually

27:27

turn around. But legal experts warned this

27:29

move could mark the start of a

27:32

serious constitutional showdown. Meanwhile, concerns

27:34

over immigration enforcement are also

27:36

growing on college campuses where

27:38

Palestinian activists and Columbia University's

27:41

student leader, Mahmoud Khalil, now

27:43

faces deportation. His arrest that sparked

27:45

fears the administration is targeting political

27:48

dissent under the guise of national

27:50

security. The administration claims it

27:52

wasn't actively defying a court order

27:54

rather than operating within the legal

27:56

gray areas. What are the legal consequences

27:58

of this move? I don't know, we're

28:01

going to find out. I feel

28:03

like I have a little bit

28:05

of interview egg on my face

28:07

because I talked to Mark Elias

28:09

last week. The interview went up

28:11

on Friday and it was all

28:13

about how the courts are the

28:15

only viable backstop for what's going

28:17

on and then you wake up

28:19

and you're like, okay, well that's

28:21

gone. So what do we have?

28:23

It feels like we got nothing

28:25

on this and I'm... watching Tom

28:28

Holman, the borders are, he's on

28:30

Fox and Friends this morning, so

28:32

we're recording this Monday morning, and

28:34

he's asked by Lawrence Jones, the

28:36

host, well what's next? And he

28:38

says another flight, another flight every

28:40

day, we are not stopping. I

28:42

don't care what the judges think,

28:44

I don't care what the left

28:46

things, we're coming. So they're laying

28:48

it all out on the field,

28:50

right, going back to a six-month

28:52

spending bill. That's tons of time

28:54

in Trump years. for them to

28:56

accomplish whatever it is that they

28:59

are going after. And, you know,

29:01

it's a difficult place to be

29:03

in because, like, I tweeted something

29:05

about this yesterday, and I said,

29:07

well, I guess the courts aren't

29:09

stopping him, and Tommy Laren, who

29:11

is, you know, a mag of

29:13

firebrand, one of my colleagues, we

29:15

actually get along really well. She

29:17

responded and said, you know, just,

29:19

I love you girl, but like,

29:21

why are you defending these people?

29:23

And I'm not defending Trentor Oahuagua,

29:25

gang members. I'm defending the rule

29:28

of law and the fact that,

29:30

according to immigration attorneys, there are

29:32

people on those flights who had

29:34

legitimate asylum claims and are not

29:36

in a gang. Like they've been

29:38

using tattoos as evidence of someone

29:40

being part of this gang, which

29:42

is a murderous gang. And I

29:44

want every single one of those

29:46

people out of this country. But

29:48

they're saying like about this one

29:50

person's client that they had the

29:52

gang tattoos. and she posted on

29:54

social media that that is not

29:56

the case that this person has

29:59

decorative tattoos part of the LGBTQ.

30:01

community here with a legitimate asylum

30:03

claim and their hearing was supposed

30:05

to have started last week but

30:07

this person was disappeared and

30:09

there's another person whose hearing was

30:11

supposed to be today on Monday

30:13

but they ended up on one

30:16

of these flights heading to El

30:18

Salvador to one of the scariest

30:20

prisons that apparently exists on the face

30:22

of the planet and I feel so

30:25

despondent about what to do and

30:27

worried that we used all of

30:29

our alarm bells and all of

30:31

our words about the constitutional crisis

30:34

and the end of the Republic too

30:36

early, right? That we were, this

30:38

was 2016, 2017, and it went

30:40

through 2020, and then he did

30:42

actually try to stay past his

30:44

cell by date, right? The voters decided

30:47

they wanted Joe Biden. He

30:49

stages and insurrection, gets away

30:51

with it. Now every prosecutor

30:54

that worked. on that is gone, he's

30:56

going after the lawyers that worked on

30:58

those cases, etc. But I don't know if

31:00

we should have just been quiet the

31:02

entire time, and certainly there were some

31:05

big swings and misses, right? We should

31:07

not have done Russia, Russia, Russia, even

31:09

though the Mueller report obviously did show

31:11

that the Russians were working to get

31:14

Trump elected. I am not trying to

31:16

minimize any of that, but it feels

31:18

like people completely tuned out the argument

31:21

that he is a threat to democracy.

31:23

They don't want to hear about January

31:25

6th again, which seems like a clear

31:27

precursor to what we're seeing now, and

31:30

that we're like the girl who cried

31:32

insurrection, and now we have nothing.

31:34

Yeah, this is really, if you think

31:36

about, I mean, it's sort of deciding,

31:38

all right, we don't have a country.

31:41

If we're not going to have laws,

31:43

an easy way to reduce a lot of

31:45

crime would be to do away with

31:47

search and seizure laws. And that is,

31:49

if for whatever reason. Your local

31:51

law enforcement or federal law enforcement can

31:53

just come raid your house, raid you,

31:56

incarcerate you, hold you for as long

31:58

as they want until they're satisfied. they're

32:00

either right or wrong, you would see

32:02

a drop in crime. But we've decided

32:05

that it might be you with that

32:07

knock of the door and that we're

32:09

going to pay for a certain level

32:12

of insecurity around overtime crime and those

32:14

rights and that rule of law and

32:16

that democracy attracts so many talented people

32:19

and makes people feel so good about

32:21

America that ultimately results in a greater

32:23

quality of life, greater prosperity, greater economic

32:26

growth. This is essentially saying, okay, we're

32:28

now on an autocracy and the people

32:30

in power get to kind of

32:32

make the laws and basically not listen

32:35

to the government. So there are literally

32:37

no checks and balances. The Republican Party,

32:39

who is in control, has said, I'm

32:42

willing for an unelected official who was

32:44

not born here to essentially usurp my

32:46

power as an elected representative, right? So

32:49

that branch of the government is gone.

32:51

Then sort of the last man standing

32:53

or the last defense between us and

32:56

total autocracy was supposed to be the

32:58

courts. And they have said, we don't

33:00

give a shit what the courts say.

33:03

Yeah. I mean, when I saw it,

33:05

the courts have ordered these flights

33:07

to stop, then that means the flights

33:09

can't go or can't turn around. Well,

33:12

they said, they basically stuck up the

33:14

middle finger and said, stop us. So

33:16

this is, this feels like when you

33:19

challenge the court, if nothing happens here.

33:21

They will have the incentives and the

33:23

signal that they are now the

33:25

law, that the White House, the Trump

33:28

administration and the supporters are now the

33:30

law. The judges are now similar to

33:32

Republican representatives who are so scared of

33:35

being primaried or a weak and feckless

33:37

Democratic Party that there's effectively, we've gone

33:39

from checks and balances to absolutely none

33:42

of them. They've all been sort of

33:44

shut down. And the one that kind

33:46

of tested my resolve around this, or

33:49

I had some... a moral dilemma, if

33:51

you will, is Mamu Kale's arrest. And

33:53

it did tickle my progressive censors. I

33:56

take an individual here on a green

33:58

card who is inciting violence and

34:00

view and shit posting America and making

34:02

a campus environment less productive and kids

34:05

can't go to can't go to class

34:07

and basically tearing at the fabric of

34:09

America and also the legal argument for

34:12

deporting him is that when you're here

34:14

on a grain card you are not

34:16

supposed to promote or endorse terrorist activities.

34:18

That is a legal argument for

34:20

deporting him and I can see making

34:23

that legal argument. The problem is the

34:25

way they went about it and that

34:27

is he was effectively disappeared. And that is,

34:29

he was arrested and detained, and his

34:31

family and his lawyer couldn't even find

34:33

out where he was. And then he

34:35

had been transferred to a facility, I

34:37

believe, in Louisiana. And that's the

34:39

thing that's really upsetting and bothers him.

34:41

And as much as I would like

34:43

to see this individual having had been

34:46

expelled and maybe losing his, I imagine,

34:48

I don't know if he's here on

34:50

a student visa or a green card.

34:52

Just green card? Not just green card.

34:54

It's the best. I shouldn't say that. Student

34:56

visa would be worse. But he has the

34:58

best you can have. He has the best

35:00

you can have. He has a great card.

35:03

The bottom line is this, is that regardless

35:05

of how shitty the speech may be, if

35:07

you start rounding up people and

35:09

deporting them for political speech,

35:11

be careful for when that knock comes

35:14

on the door. Because eventually it means

35:16

that if you have political

35:18

speech that is counter or

35:20

detrimental or disparaging of an

35:22

administration that now appears to

35:24

be ignoring court orders and

35:26

is... is suing and intimidating and

35:29

saying publicly now that

35:31

people at CNN and MS

35:33

NBC should be prosecuted.

35:35

I mean, we are, you know, we're

35:37

effectively in a full, I don't know

35:40

if you want to call it,

35:42

dictatorship where speech is now chilled.

35:44

So as much as I would

35:46

like to see bad things happen

35:48

to this individual because I

35:51

think he's created incredible,

35:53

incredible dissent and that

35:55

he's He hasn't really broken any

35:57

laws, and this is just political.

36:00

speech, and he's getting disappeared and

36:02

deported, you know, who's next? And

36:04

what qualifies as political speech that

36:06

is worthy of deportation? So there's

36:08

a lot here. It feels as

36:10

if, because we show absolutely no

36:13

resistance, no coordination, no backbone, and

36:15

quite frankly, it doesn't feel, it

36:17

feels as if the flooding the

36:19

zone has the public looking in

36:21

so many different directions over if

36:24

and what to respond to that

36:26

this is now, I used to

36:28

think that the focus should be

36:30

on Ukraine, our surrender to rush

36:32

over Ukraine, the deficits, but this

36:35

feels like it really is something

36:37

that Democrats should be focusing on

36:39

in messaging, and that is, have

36:41

we broken down all of our

36:43

constitutional checks and balances that in

36:45

fact make us a democracy in

36:48

a country? And the last week,

36:50

I would think the last week,

36:52

and I'm trying to think of

36:54

my being somewhat, If I'm catastrophizing,

36:56

it feels like the actions of

36:59

the last week, if they go

37:01

unchecked and the Democrats and the

37:03

public, don't coordinate, mature, just state

37:05

a really thoughtful, strong response to

37:07

this, that we have pretty much

37:09

taken a pretty strong step away

37:12

from a democracy to an autocracy.

37:14

What are your thoughts about Mahmoud

37:16

Kaleel's arrest? I share a lot

37:18

of your same sentiments. And you

37:20

know, this is someone... who is

37:23

completely abhorrent to me. And I

37:25

see this also as a major

37:27

failing of Columbia University that could

37:29

have nipped this in the bud

37:31

last year. Yep. You know. And

37:33

it is part of the Trump

37:36

administration's plan to got higher education

37:38

in this country. So they took

37:40

$400 million away from Columbia. They're

37:42

doing the same at Harvard. I

37:44

saw that they're taking 800 million

37:47

in USAID grants from Johns Hopkins,

37:49

which is the biggest employer for

37:51

Baltimore. writ large and there's no

37:53

accusation of an anti-Semitism problem at

37:55

Johns Hopkins. You know, they just

37:58

don't want people to be able

38:00

to continue with their research grants

38:02

and you know, they say, oh,

38:04

we have to maintain that we're

38:06

going to be competitive with China

38:08

and the rest of the world.

38:11

Well, why don't you just take

38:13

away our innovation, which is happening

38:15

in all of these labs that

38:17

have NIH funding and it's as

38:19

someone who... believes in higher education

38:22

was part of a quote-unquote elite

38:24

institution for my PhD work taught

38:26

there, loves the Ivory Tower even

38:28

though I accept that there are

38:30

problems with it. This is gut-wrenching

38:32

and I worry about the fact

38:35

that the people that we're seeing

38:37

going to the mats for are

38:39

folks like... Mahmoud Khalil. And I

38:41

know that the point of the

38:43

First Amendment is that it's not

38:46

about the speech that you like,

38:48

it's about the speech that makes

38:50

your blood boil. And that is

38:52

exactly the kind of speech that

38:54

this man engaged in. But I

38:57

really wish that the administration would

38:59

go out there and find the

39:01

law that he violated. the law

39:03

that's on the books for that,

39:05

or even the Columbia University laws

39:07

that he definitely violated. Because what

39:10

went on last year at Hamilton

39:12

Hall and that Jews were prevented

39:14

from going to the library, to

39:16

their classes, to their habods, that

39:18

seems like grounds for him to

39:21

have been kicked out of school.

39:23

So we have to retrace our

39:25

steps. And all of this is

39:27

making Marco Rubio, who... gave a

39:29

pretty impassion defense of what the

39:31

administration was doing, seemed pretty sane.

39:34

Like, this is the hill that

39:36

you want to die on for

39:38

this guy who sympathizes with a

39:40

terrorist organization that is at this

39:42

moment holding Americans hostage. This isn't

39:45

some group that has no relevance

39:47

to our lives right now. There

39:49

are Americans sitting in tunnels, in

39:51

Gaza, God knows. what

39:53

has happened to

39:56

them over the

39:58

last, what is

40:00

it, 450 days

40:02

now at this

40:04

point and we have

40:06

to be on the side of

40:08

this guy. Now, we have, I

40:11

guess, good company, Ann Coulter is

40:13

with us now, Eli Lake, someone

40:15

who really hates Mamut Khalil, came

40:18

out and said as well, like, you

40:20

need some law that the guy

40:22

broke in order to take away

40:24

a green card, which is

40:27

basically sacrosanct on top of the fact that

40:29

he's married to an American who's eight months

40:31

pregnant, which creates, you know, a lot

40:33

of sympathy for the

40:35

situation. But I was

40:37

taken, there was, it was just a

40:39

White House official, there was no name

40:41

attached to it, but there was reporting

40:43

in the free press last week, where

40:46

this official told the free press

40:48

reporter, essentially, we don't need

40:50

to say that any law was broken.

40:52

We're just going for aiding and abetting

40:54

a terrorist organization. And the

40:56

American public gets that.

40:59

And I think when push comes to shove,

41:01

and when you look at those immigration numbers,

41:03

that that's the only area in which Trump is

41:05

above watering is a 55 % approval in

41:07

the new NBC poll, that I think that

41:09

they're going to win this one. And

41:12

he is not going

41:14

to be a sympathetic figure for

41:16

many people kind of in the

41:18

moderate middle of this, who are

41:20

looking for examples of people who

41:22

they don't think hold beliefs that

41:24

run counter to the American project,

41:26

who are not siding with violent

41:28

terrorists that are holding us captive

41:31

at this particular moment, and think

41:33

that October 7th was a day

41:35

of love, right? And that there

41:37

was nothing wrong with this. And,

41:39

you know, their anti Zionism certainly

41:41

steps over the line into anti

41:43

Semitism, which is what was going

41:45

on in these campuses and continues

41:47

to go on on a number

41:49

of them with these spineless leaderships who

41:51

sat in front of Congress and

41:53

basically said, we're not going to

41:55

do anything when we know if

41:57

this hadn't been about Jews. about

42:00

black kids, trans kids, gay kids,

42:02

they would have been shut down

42:04

in minutes. There is no chance

42:06

that they would have been able

42:08

to go forward. And so it's

42:10

complicated, of course, and I'm torn

42:12

about it, but I'm looking at

42:15

this as the precursor for what

42:17

they're going to continue to do.

42:19

You know, they reportedly. held a

42:21

green card holder at Logan Airport.

42:23

Did you see this story? A

42:25

German who's been here on a

42:28

green card since 07-08, married to

42:30

an American. He's an engineer. According

42:32

to his mother, they detained him,

42:34

put him in an ice-cold shower.

42:36

There's no evidence that this

42:38

guy is sympathetic to anything

42:40

that runs counter to the

42:42

United States. And there, no one

42:44

is safe. They should really just... change

42:47

this to we only want

42:49

natural-born citizens plus Elon Musk

42:51

and if you have a

42:53

green card that doesn't mean

42:55

anything to us and we're

42:57

gonna completely rewrite the way

42:59

we do immigration law in

43:01

this country asylum get over

43:03

it's done it means there

43:05

are no legitimate asylum claims

43:07

and Tom Holman is the king

43:09

yeah the I do think that

43:12

Democrats have a a habit of sticking

43:14

out our chin and having this fist

43:16

of autocracy stone come for it.

43:18

And to your point, if I had

43:20

gone down as a faculty member of

43:23

NYU with a big sign saying, burn

43:25

the gaze or lynch the blacks, they

43:27

would have had no need for context,

43:29

I would have been, my ID would

43:31

have been turned off, I would have

43:34

been shut out of academia, fired, never

43:36

allowed back on the campus, never

43:38

been able to work in academia

43:41

again. But when... Yeah, free speech

43:43

has never been freer when it's

43:45

hate speech against Jews. And the

43:47

Republican administration has now

43:50

found an opportunity to tap

43:52

into that rage and that wrong and

43:54

go way too far and deny the

43:56

rights of everyday Americans. And

43:58

this is just a huge... feeling in

44:00

my opinion and has created an

44:02

opening the size of the Grand

44:05

Canyon for the Republicans to come

44:07

in or for the Trump administration

44:09

to come in and start violating

44:11

everybody's rights. And I actually did

44:13

advise or have been advising the

44:16

Regency of the University of California

44:18

on this issue and their general

44:20

viewpoint is my advice was this

44:22

is super easy. They were really

44:25

worried about fall. What happens when

44:27

the students return last fall? And

44:29

because UCLA, I think probably, I

44:31

think the most shameful moment I've

44:33

ever felt in there hasn't been

44:36

a lot of them, for my

44:38

alma mater, UCLA, was when kids

44:40

were passing out bans to non-Jews,

44:42

and if you didn't have a

44:44

band, you couldn't access certain parts

44:47

of the campus. So they basically

44:49

decided to prohibit Jews from certain,

44:51

you know, from campus activities. And

44:53

I thought, okay, what's going to

44:55

happen here? And I don't know

44:58

what happened, which probably means nothing.

45:00

They said, well, what would you

45:02

do? And I said, it's very

45:04

easy. The first protest for a

45:06

sign of any protest around where

45:09

there's hate speech, or there are

45:11

people trespassing who aren't students, or

45:13

the students are doing anything resembling

45:15

what would qualify as hate speech,

45:17

of which there's a lot. If

45:20

it's a peaceful protest, of course

45:22

you do nothing. But if it's

45:24

not, and it turns ugly, or

45:26

they're occupying facilities, like what recently

45:28

happened a Columbia, you give them

45:31

15 minutes to vacate. And then

45:33

you start expelling students and let

45:35

them call their parents and say,

45:37

oh, that $72,000 tuition, I'm coming

45:39

home. And you do that right

45:42

away. And word gets out really

45:44

fast. And there was this bullshit

45:46

argument that Scott, these are young

45:48

people, we can't just start expelling

45:50

them in a wanton kind of

45:53

reckless fashion. And my response to

45:55

the following. At Columbia, they expelled

45:57

91% of freshmenmen every year. It's

45:59

called the admissions process. And the

46:01

notion that somehow you have a

46:04

birthright to attend a private university

46:06

and that you're protected by these

46:08

first, you have. You are at

46:10

a private organization. It's like no

46:12

shoes, no shirt, no service. They

46:15

have the right to kind of

46:17

determine the laws as long as

46:19

they're not breaking the law. And

46:21

the fact that they have come

46:23

across is so incredibly anti-Semitic. They

46:26

have stuck their chin out and

46:28

the result is an overreaction in

46:30

the Trump administration taking advantage of

46:32

this weak... They get it thinking

46:35

to go the other way and

46:37

have an overreaction. I do think

46:39

to your point, this is a

46:41

response to an incredible lack of

46:43

leadership and insanity on university campuses.

46:46

I'm about to do a college

46:48

tour with my son. And I'm

46:50

fascinated by colleges and admission standards

46:52

and data and enrollment trends. And

46:54

it's interesting, the schools that are

46:57

booming in terms. are these southern

46:59

schools that are seen as apolitical

47:01

or even a little less, or

47:03

even a little conservative. Parents are

47:05

sending their kids, they want their

47:08

kids to go to college. They

47:10

don't want a political orthodoxy, they

47:12

don't want a school and administration

47:14

that sees themselves as engineers of

47:16

social engineers. It's really interesting. Southern

47:19

schools or schools that are distinctly

47:21

seen as somewhat center left are

47:23

booming in terms of applications. But

47:25

Columbia University leadership goes down as

47:27

such incredibly misguided weak leadership that

47:30

has set up an overreaction that

47:32

has been justified. And the cloud

47:34

cover for the justification of an

47:36

overreaction has been what have been

47:38

an incredible lack of leadership in

47:41

blatant anti-Semitism. So this is, like

47:43

a lot of democratic policies, we

47:45

start on the right foot, we

47:47

take it too far. and we

47:49

set up an overreaction because people

47:52

are just rolling their eyes and

47:54

thinking, okay, making an argument for

47:56

a six foot four swimmer to...

47:58

show up to a swim meet,

48:00

to a swim meet, who presents his

48:02

female and then blow away everything. Didn't

48:05

win a single race as a male swimmer,

48:07

but is absolutely winning everything. And then

48:09

having everyone on the left applaud and

48:11

say, isn't that inspiring, you set up

48:14

an overreaction where we begin demonizing a

48:16

special interest group for no real reason.

48:18

And the same has happened here. We

48:20

take things too far. We stick our

48:23

chin out and we set ourselves up

48:25

for an overreaction that makes things much

48:27

worse than if we'd had a less

48:29

insane thoughtful reaction. I'm totally with

48:32

you. I'm noticing the higher education

48:34

trend myself that parents are saying,

48:36

oh, we're going to look at

48:39

University of South Carolina. We're going

48:41

to look at Clemson. Or Wake

48:43

Forest. People love Vanderbilt. UNC

48:45

Chapel Hill. Vanderbilt is now

48:47

as difficult to get into as many

48:50

Ivy leagues. There's so many

48:52

applications. That feels right to me.

48:55

Not just on this point, but the

48:57

way that academia and higher

48:59

education has been going, it's

49:01

exclusionary. It's not

49:04

providing what it purports to.

49:06

Right. You know, people think it's

49:08

the golden ticket, right? That you

49:10

got to the Wanka factory and

49:12

your life is going to be

49:14

set. But guess what? The only

49:16

thing that makes your life set

49:19

is hustle and reading. preparing

49:21

and you're seeing that more and more

49:23

in these high positions everywhere from

49:26

investment banks law firms down to of

49:28

course like the tech in the startup

49:30

world where it's just how hard you're

49:32

going to work how good are your

49:34

ideas and how intense is your grind

49:37

and by the time my kids are

49:39

going to college you know I went

49:41

to private school here in New York

49:43

City I went and talked to who's

49:45

now the head of the school prestigious

49:48

progressive institution he was like it's not

49:50

even necessarily going to be a

49:52

requirement by the time your kids are going to

49:54

college that you have to be thinking about this

49:56

because I said I have two little Jewish babies.

49:58

What am I going to do? Right? I'm not

50:00

going to send them off to Harvard

50:03

or Columbia under these conditions. Even if

50:05

there aren't protests in the streets, the

50:07

academics have shown themselves to not be

50:09

interested in treating Jews equally to the

50:11

other kids that are there. And he

50:14

said, just don't worry. It's going to

50:16

be a completely different game by the

50:18

time your kids are going and you're

50:20

going to see it, even on the

50:23

tour that you're organizing for your son,

50:25

schools that you wouldn't have even thought

50:27

of, that you were going to go

50:29

and consider. he's going to be dying

50:31

to get into. Say like this is

50:34

the right place for me both academically

50:36

and socially. So maybe that will be

50:38

a silver lining in all of this,

50:40

but these huge endowments, Harvard with what

50:42

is it, 50 billion dollars are sitting

50:45

on? Yeah. They should start paying for

50:47

all these kids to come for free.

50:49

Now is the time. If the government's

50:51

going to take away your funding, you

50:53

say you know what, we're going to

50:56

go it alone. Get rid of all

50:58

the anti-Semitic, ruining the quality of life

51:00

for other students clearly violating your policies

51:02

and put that money back into the

51:04

system so that the smart kids that

51:07

are going to be the leaders of

51:09

tomorrow can come there without landing themselves

51:11

in hundreds of thousands of debt for

51:13

the rest of their lives and make

51:15

this bit more of an equal playing

51:18

field. Yeah, well, as you can imagine,

51:20

I think a lot about this and

51:22

I do think unfortunately, I do think

51:24

it's tempting to think that because there's

51:27

so much manufactured artificial stresses, someone who's

51:29

going through it right now. from universities

51:31

who have adopted a rejectionist exclusionary strategy.

51:33

And despite sitting on an endowment, the

51:35

size of the GDP of a Latin

51:38

American nation only led in 500 students.

51:40

Dartmouth sits on an endowment of $8

51:42

billion and lets in 500 freshmen. Harvard

51:44

sits on an endowment of $52 billion

51:46

and decides to only led in 1,500.

51:49

That is morally corrupt. If you had

51:51

a drug that made people less likely

51:53

to kill themselves, more likely to get

51:55

married, more likely to pay a lot

51:57

of taxes. less likely to be obese,

52:00

less likely to be depressed, would you

52:02

hoard that drug? We in higher education

52:04

hoard that drug. We have the resource...

52:06

we have the capability, there would be

52:08

absolutely no sacrifice in the quality of

52:11

the students. People say, oh, but the

52:13

brand would go down. When I applied

52:15

to UCLA, the acceptance rate was 76

52:17

percent. It's now 9 percent. And it

52:19

wasn't exactly a Joey Bag of Donuts

52:22

brand back then. We have become the

52:24

enforcers of the caste system and as

52:26

much as we like to believe that,

52:28

oh, don't worry, the college won't matter,

52:31

it does, because America is turning into

52:33

a caste system and the easiest way

52:35

for corporations to evaluate human capital is

52:37

based on the school they went to.

52:39

So the notion that a quote-unquote doesn't

52:42

matter anymore is a lie we tell

52:44

ourselves, such that we feel better about

52:46

the massive amount of stress and the

52:48

inequity. and our disappointment in higher ed.

52:50

And what has slowly happened in higher

52:53

education is me and my faculty sometimes

52:55

who are 15 administrators to everyone who

52:57

actually teaches have decided that we would

52:59

rather not have accountability. So we teach

53:01

bullshit, ridiculous courses that have no measurable

53:04

outcomes. Leadership, sustainability, DI, ethics. Show me

53:06

someone teaching ethics. I'm going to show

53:08

you a fit, a formerly important person.

53:10

who hangs out at the university makes

53:12

$200,000 to $400,000 a year for trying

53:15

to teach a 27-year-old in business school

53:17

how to be more ethical, which is

53:19

such the height of arrogance, instead of

53:21

being centers of excellence, we've turned it

53:23

into a political orthodoxy machine with a

53:26

vast majority of the faculty are very

53:28

left, not reflecting any diverse thought, and

53:30

where you can get in trouble for

53:32

certain words. We have totally lost the

53:35

script. Our job is to give you

53:37

the skills to go out and create

53:39

economic security for you and your family

53:41

and do great work and power the

53:43

economy. And the fact that we have

53:46

become this exclusionary and this arrogant and

53:48

teaching all of these bullshit courses with

53:50

no measurable outcome, the result is we

53:52

constrain supply and it's not about who

53:54

gets in it should be about how

53:57

many. If a school doesn't increase its

53:59

freshman seats faster than population... growth, it

54:01

should lose its tax-free status as it's

54:03

no longer a public servant,

54:05

but it's a hedge fund

54:08

with classes. Higher education absolutely

54:10

needs to be reformed. Anyways,

54:13

that's my TED Talk. It was

54:15

good and I guess I'm wrong, so there

54:17

we go. There you go. Well, we just,

54:19

there's some nuance there, that's

54:21

what I call it, it's nuance.

54:24

All right, Jess, let's take one

54:26

more quick break, stay with Ready for

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to upgrade Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. Welcome back

55:49

before your selling today. Welcome back before we go. Talks

55:51

between the US, Ukraine, and Russia

55:53

over a possible ceasefire are picking

55:55

up... we go. Talks between the US, Ukraine, and Russia over a possible ceasefire are picking up steam. And the Kremlin is saying

55:57

there's some reason to be hopeful.

56:00

the world's largest nation, has become

56:02

a surrender monkey. Anyways, after meeting

56:05

with Trump's envoy in Moscow, Putin

56:07

signaled he's open to a 30-day

56:09

truce, but with conditions that are

56:11

pretty one-sided. He wants formal recognition

56:13

of Russia's land grabs and a

56:15

promise that Ukraine will never join

56:18

NATO. Salenski has stood firm on

56:20

not giving up land, but lately

56:22

he's prioritizing security guarantees over getting

56:24

territory back right away. Meanwhile, Americans

56:26

are skeptical of Trump's handling of

56:28

the situation. A new CNN poll

56:30

shows 59% think Trump's approach won't

56:33

lead to long-term peace. 50% say

56:35

it's flat out bad for the

56:37

US. And nearly 6 in 10

56:39

disapprove of his handling of the

56:41

US's relations with Russia. Just your

56:43

thoughts here. Well, I think that

56:45

Oval Office debacle actually did something

56:48

and moved public opinion in how

56:50

Trump is handling this. So that

56:52

week of calling Zelenski a dictator,

56:54

saying he only had a 4%

56:56

approval, and then... that back and

56:58

forth in the oval, you know,

57:01

first with JD Vance and then

57:03

with Trump, obviously has people soured

57:05

a bit on this approach. And,

57:07

you know, with Russia saying that

57:09

we're making progress, that's the S

57:11

to me. I don't trust them

57:13

as far as I could throw

57:16

them, which would be zero feet

57:18

anyway. And there is no evidence

57:20

that they have... compromise any of

57:22

their positions. They're still at the

57:24

maximalist position in all of this.

57:26

And so all of the compromising

57:29

is going to have to come

57:31

on the part of Ukraine. Now

57:33

Zelenski has been signaling for months

57:35

now that he is willing to

57:37

make some concessions. He even said

57:39

when he was speaking in Kiev

57:41

a few weeks ago, I'll resign

57:44

right now if it means that

57:46

we can put a stop to

57:48

this and that we're going to

57:50

have the security guarantees that we

57:52

need. So I basically just don't.

57:54

believe it. I think that Zelenski

57:57

continues to be between a rock

57:59

and a hard place, having to

58:01

negotiate with two forces that just

58:03

want this over with. Putin and

58:05

he wants to get whatever he

58:07

wants and us that wants this

58:09

mineral rights deal which is going

58:12

to go through and If there's

58:14

a tentative ceasefire, they're going to

58:16

break it. You know Putin and

58:18

Medvedev come out and say we're

58:20

making progress and that night There

58:22

are 27 drones launched into Ukraine.

58:25

So they spare me basically is

58:27

where I am. Yeah, this is

58:29

I see a silver lining here

58:31

and that is the US is

58:33

surrender to Putin, the decision to

58:35

ignore these 80-year alliances with the

58:37

largest economies in the world such

58:40

that they can have sort of

58:42

this, if you will, this mob

58:44

deal with another autocrat and potentially

58:46

thinking they can divide up the

58:48

world. It's economically just really stupid.

58:50

And the silver line here is

58:53

the following. Europe may be a

58:55

union for the first time, and

58:57

that is the 27 member states

58:59

of the European Union have finally

59:01

recognized. that they need to get

59:03

their shit together and can't be

59:05

this rich nephew relying on Uncle

59:08

Sam's large ass. They now actually

59:10

believe there's just not getting around

59:12

it. Uncle Sam has lost his

59:14

shit and we can't depend upon

59:16

him for a military umbrella. The

59:18

U.S. spends about $800 billion in

59:20

defense. NATO and all EU-27 member

59:23

nations spend a total of about

59:25

$400 and $450. They have not

59:27

been coordinated. They've lacked risk capital.

59:29

And this might be actually the

59:31

moment for them to command the

59:33

space they occupy. And you have

59:36

seen some signs of a pulse

59:38

and of real leadership from the

59:40

biggest leaders in the EU. And

59:42

I believe that they basically, the

59:44

bad news is that America can't

59:46

be counted on, which is really

59:48

unfortunate and tragic to support the

59:51

post-World War II 80-year alliance that

59:53

has created more prosperity in the

59:55

last 80 years than the world

59:57

has created in the modern economy.

59:59

But the silver lining is that

1:00:01

the EU may get more coordinated.

1:00:04

They're talking about increasing their defense

1:00:06

budgets from 1.9% of GDP. to

1:00:08

3%. And what you've seen is

1:00:10

the markets are responding. The quote

1:00:12

unquote magnificent seven, which consists of

1:00:14

US Tech mega caps, Apple, Amazon,

1:00:16

Alphabet, Meta, Microsoft, and Invidian, Tesla,

1:00:19

have been incredible performers. But this

1:00:21

year, this year, their year to

1:00:23

date, they're down 8%. Whereas the

1:00:25

European defense seven, that's the second

1:00:27

biggest, that's the seven largest military

1:00:29

contractors, are up 46% and 65%

1:00:32

over the last year, and the

1:00:34

stock 600, which is the European

1:00:36

kind of S&P, if you will,

1:00:38

is up 9% this year, and

1:00:40

the S&P 500 is down 2%.

1:00:42

If you look at military spending,

1:00:44

as much as, and there's a

1:00:47

decent argument here that it withdraws

1:00:49

from more productive means of spending

1:00:51

on social services, There is, one,

1:00:53

a stimulative effect, and two, there

1:00:55

is a spillover. If you look

1:00:57

at the most valuable companies in

1:01:00

the world, whether it's Apple or

1:01:02

Google, they're essentially built on the

1:01:04

backbone of defense technologies developed early

1:01:06

on, whether it's DARPA, which was

1:01:08

built to establish a communications network

1:01:10

such that we could communicate in

1:01:12

a post-Soviet nuclear attack that was

1:01:15

hubless or nodeless. or GPS, which

1:01:17

is what essentially Apple and Android

1:01:19

are built on, and that was

1:01:21

developed such that we could put

1:01:23

an ICBM in Gorbachev's pocket. All

1:01:25

of these military technologies do have

1:01:28

a stimulative and a spillover effect,

1:01:30

and I believe, and this is

1:01:32

one of my big predictions late

1:01:34

last year for 2025, that European

1:01:36

stocks are going to vastly outperform

1:01:38

US stocks. And the nice thing

1:01:40

about this is we're all talking

1:01:43

as if at the negotiation table

1:01:45

that it's up to. first and

1:01:47

foremost, the US who kind of

1:01:49

is acting as the propaganda wing

1:01:51

of Russia at this point, and

1:01:53

then Russia, and Ukraine is invited

1:01:55

to the table around these defense

1:01:58

stocks, and Europe plays absolutely no

1:02:00

role. Well, here's the good news.

1:02:02

If Europe gets a... together and

1:02:04

show sort of the commitment and

1:02:06

resolve from a spending and a

1:02:08

boots on the ground resolve that

1:02:11

the US and Russia have shown

1:02:13

in spades. They don't need the

1:02:15

US. The Russian economy is smaller

1:02:17

than the Canadian economy. It's less

1:02:19

than two trillion dollars and the

1:02:21

EU or the EU member nations

1:02:23

add up to about 19 trillion.

1:02:26

The European Union, should it show

1:02:28

coordination, fiscal commitment, and perhaps even

1:02:30

boots on the ground commitment, which

1:02:32

I don't think we'll ever need

1:02:34

to do, but show a willingness

1:02:36

and a resolve, they don't need

1:02:39

the US. And I'm hopeful that

1:02:41

this additional spending and coordination might

1:02:43

finally kind of stir a sleeping

1:02:45

giant, and that is the EU.

1:02:47

So I think this is a

1:02:49

new era, or could signal a

1:02:51

new era, where there's some great

1:02:54

leadership in Europe, whether it's Macron,

1:02:56

whether it's a cure stormer. There

1:02:58

is an opportunity here for Europe

1:03:00

to finally be a union and

1:03:02

command the space they occupy, push

1:03:04

back on Putin with or without

1:03:07

the US's help, and coordinate and

1:03:09

spend and show some resolve here.

1:03:11

They are acquiescing to a gas

1:03:13

station that has nuclear weapons on

1:03:15

the roof, and they shouldn't be.

1:03:17

They are a bigger economy. They

1:03:19

have fantastic IP, fantastic weapons producers.

1:03:22

Both France and the UK are

1:03:24

nuclear powers. It is time for

1:03:26

the Europeans to step up. It's

1:03:28

going to be costly. That's the

1:03:30

bad news. The good news is

1:03:32

they can absolutely step up and

1:03:35

push back on a murderous autocrat.

1:03:37

And what's just so tragic here

1:03:39

is that Trump appears to be

1:03:41

acting like a Russian asset. There's

1:03:43

no evidence that he is, in

1:03:45

fact, a Russian asset. But if

1:03:47

you were to define the actions

1:03:50

of a Russian asset, he would

1:03:52

fit them to a tea. But

1:03:54

the good news is I'm not

1:03:56

sure the European Union actually needs

1:03:58

us. I think they have all

1:04:00

of the spending power. all of

1:04:03

the military technology to push back

1:04:05

on their own, the question is

1:04:07

do they have the resolve and

1:04:09

the leadership. I just want to

1:04:11

add quickly to that that while

1:04:13

I share those sentiments and as

1:04:15

someone who spent a lot of

1:04:18

time living in a former EU

1:04:20

country, but I have a deep

1:04:22

affection for the European project and

1:04:24

I think it's incredible. You could

1:04:26

design something with the free flow

1:04:28

of humans and goods and that

1:04:31

we're all the better for culture

1:04:33

sharing and economic sharing, etc. But

1:04:35

all of these silver linings or

1:04:37

all of these good things that

1:04:39

are happening are happening for somebody

1:04:41

else besides us. And that feels

1:04:43

terrible. I don't ever want to

1:04:46

be rooting against my own country.

1:04:48

I don't want to be rooting

1:04:50

against my own government and in

1:04:52

every single conversation that we've had

1:04:54

today that has had to be

1:04:56

a stipulation in this that i

1:04:58

don't want to be seen to

1:05:01

be on the side of v

1:05:03

Venezuelan gang members i don't want

1:05:05

to be seen to be on

1:05:07

the side of the u.s. not

1:05:09

having the important and central role

1:05:11

that we should be playing in

1:05:14

geopolitics in favor of a stronger

1:05:16

EU or a chance for Ukraine

1:05:18

to be able to survive as

1:05:20

a sovereign nation. I think I

1:05:22

said it used the same word

1:05:24

at the start of the podcast.

1:05:26

I just feel despondent about all

1:05:29

of this and it makes me

1:05:31

feel a bit like a shitty

1:05:33

American too and I love America.

1:05:35

I think it's the most fantastic

1:05:37

country on the planet. And there's

1:05:39

just so much that has made

1:05:42

me feel sour about the way

1:05:44

that we're behaving and what the

1:05:46

future looks like for all of

1:05:48

us here. Well, I go back

1:05:50

to, I feel the same way.

1:05:52

And I think a lot of

1:05:54

Americans do. They feel despondent. And

1:05:57

what helps me is that I

1:05:59

realize that. Yes,

1:06:01

Winston Churchill said, the Americans, after

1:06:03

exhausting every other option, will do the

1:06:05

right thing, or will do the right

1:06:08

thing after exhausting every other option. And

1:06:10

we faced really dark moments before. 80

1:06:12

years ago, we were rounding up Japanese-American

1:06:14

and putting them in camps, and some

1:06:16

of them had sons fighting in the

1:06:19

European theater in our own uniform. We

1:06:21

do get it wrong a lot, but

1:06:23

generally over the medium in the long term,

1:06:25

the arc of American justice bends towards the

1:06:27

righteous. We waited... A couple of years

1:06:29

before entering World War II, Canada went

1:06:32

over there first and started training Allied

1:06:34

pilots and finally we decided to enter

1:06:36

the war. And I do think Americans are

1:06:39

going to recognize that the Ukrainian

1:06:41

people who are fighting for liberty

1:06:43

and American values, that Canada with

1:06:45

the largest undefended border in the

1:06:47

world are actually our friends, that

1:06:49

this move towards autocracy is so

1:06:51

counter to everything that's wonderful and

1:06:53

has created so much prosperity in the

1:06:55

US, that those values matter and that

1:06:57

they're willing... you know, they're worth fighting for.

1:06:59

So I have a lot of confidence

1:07:02

that Americans, should we actually find leadership

1:07:04

in the Democratic Party, and I believe

1:07:06

we will, to your point. You know,

1:07:08

you've always said this, we have a

1:07:10

great bench. I think they're going to

1:07:12

realize that a murderous autocrat invading

1:07:15

Europe usually does not end well

1:07:17

for Europe, and then eventually for us.

1:07:19

And I do believe there's a real

1:07:21

moment, a kind of a, you know,

1:07:23

people were calling Kiery starmor, or a...

1:07:25

There's a moment here for a leader

1:07:27

to step up and say that America

1:07:29

needs to be America again. And I'd

1:07:32

like to think we're getting to that point,

1:07:34

but we have been in these types of

1:07:36

dark places before, and American values do

1:07:38

seem to do seem to show up,

1:07:41

and I'm confident that's going to happen

1:07:43

again here. But this is, I would

1:07:45

describe, you know, and I think you're

1:07:47

articulating a well, this does feel like

1:07:49

a dark moment where we are, our

1:07:51

American values are taking a back seat.

1:07:54

to the temptation to have a strong

1:07:56

man and that's going to solve what

1:07:58

are some very real problems. here in

1:08:00

the U.S. But I'd like to

1:08:02

think that over the long term,

1:08:04

after again, exhausting every other solution,

1:08:06

that we get it right. Me

1:08:08

too. There you go. All right,

1:08:11

that's it for this episode. Thank

1:08:13

you for listening to Raging Moderates.

1:08:15

Our producers are David Toledo and

1:08:17

Cheneya Onikai. Our technical directors, Drew

1:08:19

Burrows. You can find Raging Moderates

1:08:21

on its own feed every Tuesday.

1:08:23

That's right, its own feed. That

1:08:25

means exclusive interviews, exclusive interviews with

1:08:27

sharp political minds you won't hear

1:08:29

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1:08:32

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1:08:34

And one last plug, join us

1:08:36

for our live show on April

1:08:38

17th in New York. Grab your

1:08:40

tickets now. The last time tickets

1:08:42

went on sale, they were sold

1:08:44

out in 24 hours, no joke.

1:08:46

Link in the show notes. See

1:08:48

you there. Just as kids will

1:08:50

not be there. Just have a

1:08:52

great. rest of the week realize

1:08:55

just just make it clear to

1:08:57

your husband always defer to mom

1:08:59

ADM he's an influencer not a

1:09:01

decision-maker. I love it he's listening

1:09:03

so there you go honey love

1:09:05

you see you at home