0:00

This week, on Network and Chill,

0:02

we're tackling the uncertain economic times

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we are all living in and

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how you can recession proof your

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finances. It's Financial Doomsday 101. In

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this practical episode, we break down

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what a recession actually is and

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review concrete steps to protect and

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potentially grow your wealth during economic

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downturns. From building a proper emergency

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fund to identifying recession-resistant-resistant-resistant assets, you're

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going to walk away with a

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clear roadmap for financial stability. regardless

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of market conditions. Listen

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wherever you get your

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podcasts or watch on

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youtube.com/your rich BFF. Scientists

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find weird kinds of life all

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the time. And normally they can run

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experiments. If I hypothesize, life can

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live in bleach. Well, I can

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get bleach and see if life lives

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in it. But what if the weird

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thing about the life they find is

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that it lives for millions of years.

0:55

Time. I don't have any control

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over that. I can literally

1:00

do nothing with time.

1:02

This week on unexplainable,

1:05

intra-trestrials, aliens on earth, deep

1:07

beneath the sea floor. Follow unexplainable

1:10

for new episodes

1:12

every Wednesday. Welcome to

1:14

Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica

1:16

Tarlove. I'm Tim Miller. Tim,

1:18

this is the banter section.

1:21

How are you? Hey banter. I'm just happy to

1:23

be in here for Scott. You know, I

1:25

think that I'm going to be a downgrade

1:27

in certain manners and upgrade in hair. You

1:29

know, we'll see what the people think. We

1:31

will see what the people think. We will

1:33

see what the people think. I think they'll

1:35

be excited when you joined us, but

1:37

we were together, all three of us.

1:39

It was fun. It's good. I mean,

1:41

I'd rather be raging with you guys

1:44

than... Maybe you have a view on

1:46

this. I think not raging with the

1:48

Dems on the hill. I'm not feeling

1:50

a ton of raging. Yes. Democratic snoozing?

1:52

Yeah, I'd rather be raging with the

1:54

moderates than snoozing with the Pragues. I

1:56

mean, this is heavy for the banter

1:58

section. Oh, sorry. No, no. I'm good

2:00

with it. You want to talk about

2:02

Mardi Gras? It's difficult times. No, I

2:05

don't want to talk about... I mean,

2:07

if you want to talk about Mardi

2:09

Gras hiding in your house, we could

2:11

do that. But do you really think

2:14

that they're snoozing or we're not paying

2:16

attention? It's a good question. I think

2:18

that they're doing a lot of stuff

2:21

that people who... are who read Hill

2:23

newsletters and who know a lot about

2:25

what's happening in the federal government, I

2:27

think they are seeing Democrats. I think

2:30

that anyone who's a casual observer of

2:32

politics is seeing only Donald Trump and

2:34

Yvon Musk and Travis and Taylor. I

2:36

think that's like the material that they're

2:39

getting. And so I don't know if

2:41

they're snoozing so much as they're not.

2:43

yelling, and I feel like they could

2:46

probably benefit from some yelling that resonates

2:48

outside of the corals. I think resonant

2:50

yelling is the trick for that one,

2:52

because I have seen some yelling and

2:55

I have hated it. Yes, the singing,

2:57

the singing, I'm hoping to singing in

2:59

the right kind of context, you know,

3:02

I'm open to singing and chance, but...

3:04

You know, maybe we could work on

3:06

the language of the chance a little

3:08

bit. Yeah, we're getting lapsed by the

3:11

YMCA, so you got to think about

3:13

that. We've given, the gays gave away

3:15

YMCA. Well, you don't even want it

3:18

back, right? I know, I made it

3:20

official. It was a long, it was,

3:22

it was not a, you know, it

3:24

was not a battle in the culture

3:27

war we expected. But it was a

3:29

battle that was thrust upon us. And

3:31

unfortunately, I think that is one L,

3:33

we just have to take. It's over

3:36

now, and the village people in YMCA,

3:38

despite the fact that that is the

3:40

song about cruising in gay gyms. The

3:43

maggus have taken it from us, and

3:45

I don't think we're ever going to

3:47

get it back. It's unfortunate. I don't

3:49

think you're going to hear a lot

3:52

of YMCA at Gay Pride this year.

3:54

No, probably not. Aberabra, by Lady Gaga,

3:56

I think you'll be hearing a lot

3:59

of Africa-go-a-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-a-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-gau-a-gau-a-gau-a-gau-g I think so. Did you

4:01

watch any of the S&L 50 stuff?

4:03

I was in and out. I was

4:05

watching White Lotus and I was, you

4:08

know, podcast prepping so I caught a

4:10

little bit of it. I really liked

4:12

a couple of the Eddie Murphy segments.

4:14

Eddie Murphy being Tracy Morgan was hilarious.

4:17

Eddie Murphy doing some borderline inappropriate prison

4:19

rape jokes with Will Farrell and like

4:21

one of the very last segments. I

4:24

also really liked. Those were my big

4:26

takeaways. Prison Rape is always a... a

4:28

highlight. I said multiple times to my

4:30

husband that I can't believe this show

4:33

is happening. Like if it weren't the

4:35

S&L 50, there's no way these jokes

4:37

would have made it in, but I'm

4:40

pretty sure everybody showed up and they

4:42

were like, we are not playing by

4:44

2025 standards, we're playing by whatever year

4:46

we were actually on the show. And

4:49

it was a lot of it was

4:51

hilarious, but I was overwhelmed by share.

4:53

I don't know if you saw these

4:56

shots of like Kevin Costner losing his

4:58

mind. Billy Crystal watching this 78 year

5:00

old woman look like a 30 year

5:02

old woman belting out if I could

5:05

turn back time, which I think the

5:07

gay is still have possession of. I

5:09

missed that clip though. So I'm going

5:11

to watch it right after this to

5:14

watch that. And now to the show

5:16

and I'm keeping us on time, which

5:18

is not Scott Strongsuit. So how I

5:21

do in the Banders. I think you

5:23

did great. I don't know. We'll see.

5:25

Okay, so in today's episode of raging

5:27

moderates, we are discussing Trump's plan to

5:30

end the war in Ukraine. Trump's lifeline

5:32

to Eric Adams and the state of

5:34

anti- Trump Republicans, your specialty. All right,

5:37

let's get into it. Big moves on

5:39

the world stage last week. Trump says

5:41

he had a highly productive call with

5:43

Vladimir Putin, claiming that they're now working

5:46

closely on a Ukraine peace deal. He

5:48

even floated the idea of a future

5:50

sit-down with Putin. This all came after

5:52

Russia released American teacher Mark Fogle, which

5:55

Trump called a quote, sign of good

5:57

faith. Meanwhile, Kiev is on edge after

5:59

a drone strike hit Chernobyl, just days

6:02

after Zelensky asked the US for more

6:04

aid. And in Europe, leaders are scrambling.

6:06

An emergency summit is set for months.

6:08

So that's today, so by tomorrow, you

6:11

may have an update. Amid fears that

6:13

Trump's outreach to Russia is leaving them

6:15

isolated. UK Prime Minister Kier Starmer called

6:18

it a once in a generation security

6:20

moment. Vice President J.D. Vance warned that

6:22

Russia could face economic and military pressure

6:24

if it doesn't negotiate in good faith.

6:27

But in Munich, he took aim at

6:29

European leaders instead, claiming their real threat

6:31

isn't Russia or China. It's their own

6:34

policies on free speech and refusal to

6:36

work with hard-right parties in government. Back

6:38

at home, not much better. The White

6:40

House is clashing with the press again,

6:43

this time banning an AP reporter from

6:45

the Oval Office for refusing to call

6:47

the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of

6:49

America. The AP is now accusing the

6:52

administration of violating the First Amendment. Let's

6:54

talk Ukraine first. What do you think

6:56

the game here is? I mean, you

6:59

can start with Pete Higgs Seth's. Maiden

7:01

voyage which did not go well and

7:03

he's walking things back within 24 hours

7:05

But what do you think? Rubio and

7:08

Trump and Vance want for Ukraine. Well

7:10

as a I guess cradle Neokon I

7:12

don't know if the Neokons exist anymore

7:15

I have a ton of thoughts about

7:17

this I first just really quick because

7:19

I think it's got lost and I'm

7:21

obsessed with the crypto element of everything

7:24

that's happening the hostage trade or everyone

7:26

to call Mark Fogle very happy Fogle's

7:28

back. That's great news but What got

7:30

missed was the person that got let

7:33

out on our side. It was like

7:35

one of the original crypto scammers who

7:37

was running a massive crypto scam that

7:40

allowed Russia to avert sanctions, you know,

7:42

by paying for things, you know, using

7:44

crypto rather than, you know, cash and

7:46

going through the regular banking system. I

7:49

only say that just because I just

7:51

everybody should just like make a mental

7:53

note of that. Because I think that

7:56

the crypto corruption that is coming over

7:58

the next four years might end up

8:00

being one of the biggest stories that

8:02

happen. Bigger than the Trump coin. It's

8:05

interesting. Well, no, it's related. The Trump

8:07

coin. It's all related, right? Like, I

8:09

mean, Trump watches this coin. Yeah. I

8:12

think that that's how people can manage

8:14

it. Well, they just say, okay, we

8:16

know he's a grifter who does things

8:18

like this, but it's so much bigger

8:21

than that. And the trade wasn't publicized

8:23

at all. It took days for anyone

8:25

to know if we got. if we

8:27

had to trade anything for Mark Fogle.

8:30

Yeah, for sure. And so obviously there

8:32

are bad people getting traded and all

8:34

of these things like Victor Bootka traded

8:37

during the Biden administration. So I, and

8:39

I'm happy Mark Fogle is home. So

8:41

it's like less a commentary on like

8:43

the particular trade than just like, it's

8:46

interesting where the priorities were. Like that

8:48

the first Russian person out is this

8:50

crypto scam, right? So. That's not a

8:53

coincidence, all right? I'm not I'm not

8:55

the always sunny guy putting yarn against

8:57

the wall here like it's it's a

8:59

pretty direct connection Directly to Trump's pocket.

9:02

So anyway, the broader deal I mean

9:04

like this sad part about this is

9:06

that just like we appear to be

9:09

on the side of the bad guys.

9:11

I mean, I think that JD did

9:13

some tough talk, but what is happening

9:15

is we have this meeting in Saudi

9:18

that you referenced the Ukrainians aren't even

9:20

invited like with the Russians who invaded

9:22

Ukraine and who we are sanctioning currently

9:24

to try to cut a deal that

9:27

Ukraine isn't even at the table for.

9:29

And Europe is having a separate, you

9:31

know, that the Europeans are having a

9:34

separate meeting at the same time. As

9:36

you mentioned, Kerr Stormer like the UK

9:38

is out there saying, we're going to

9:40

put boots on the ground if necessary

9:43

peacekeeping troops to support Ukraine. And so

9:45

like in this moment, like... We're giving

9:47

some mixed signals from the White House,

9:50

but directionally, most of the signals are

9:52

that we are sympathetic to the invaders,

9:54

to the autocrats, to the people that

9:56

were attacking a free democratic country. Like

9:59

this, you know, whatever you thought bad

10:01

about American foreign policy in the past,

10:03

like this is like a massive shit.

10:05

Like, this is not just a bad

10:08

judgment call, it's like, it's the fact

10:10

that it seems like that we're supporting,

10:12

you know, the countries that are in

10:15

conflict with what the American values have

10:17

been in the post World War II

10:19

era. So, like, at the top level,

10:21

like, that is the thing. To me,

10:24

it's the most striking. And when you

10:26

looked at these press conferences, both Hagseth

10:28

and Trump, you know, as part of

10:31

these negotiations, what are you asking Russia

10:33

to give up? And neither of them

10:35

could answer. Higgs gives like a two

10:37

minutes of gobbledygook because you know that

10:40

he couldn't come up with anything when

10:42

Trump starts attacking Europe during the answer

10:44

to that question. And so I think

10:47

that kind of tells you all you

10:49

need to know. Yeah, I think there

10:51

was something about shooting values and that

10:53

you can't do that. Pete's answer. I

10:56

can't really get to calling him Secretary

10:58

Hicks yet. I'm still in in Pete

11:00

mode. Are you on Pete, pals? Did

11:02

you, we guys, we got to drink

11:05

your buddies? No, not drinking buddies. We,

11:07

we have socialized, but no comment. No,

11:09

I totally agree with you. And one

11:12

thing that's been sticking out to me

11:14

is how quickly everybody has folded from

11:16

who they were beforehand because I At

11:18

least I was holding on to the

11:21

idea. I know I know Mike Waltz

11:23

really well. The National Security Advisor were

11:25

in a foreign policy group together. Marco

11:28

Rubio has been very clear about his

11:30

foreign policy views for a long time.

11:32

And I don't think any of either

11:34

of those two would have ever thought

11:37

that they would be part of a

11:39

deal that was going to essentially tell

11:41

Ukraine you have no future in NATO

11:43

and you're never getting back your territory.

11:46

I mean, even for getting the pre-

11:48

2014 lines. even from just a few

11:50

years ago. And maybe that speaks to

11:53

the awesome power of Trump, maybe that

11:55

speaks to the new realignment within the

11:57

Republican Party, but I don't see anyone

11:59

in positions of power now that are

12:02

going to be holding on to traditional.

12:04

American views of foreign policy and our

12:06

role in the world? No, I mean,

12:09

Rubio has been basically a full-throated defender

12:11

of the Trump push on this, and

12:13

that pivot for him has been kind

12:15

of happening gradually over time since 2016

12:18

when he was, you know, kind of

12:20

the candidate that was running. you know

12:22

the most maybe even more than Jeb

12:25

like the most w with like the

12:27

most Bush compassionate conservatism like type platform

12:29

of any of the candidates and so

12:31

you know no who knows what how

12:34

things actually go I guess it's better

12:36

that Rubio is there in Saudi Arabia

12:38

than some of the other potential people

12:40

who could be there from the Trump

12:43

orbit maybe there are things happening on

12:45

the margins that matter and like you

12:47

said waltz was a very traditional, you

12:50

know, type of, you know, type of

12:52

Republican. It is in the House as

12:54

far as foreign policy is concerned. And

12:56

I interviewed Tom Malinowski, the Democrat from

12:59

New Jersey last week, who's a pretty

13:01

kind of hawkish Democrat. And so he

13:03

was like, when I got to Congress,

13:06

I was looking to Republicans that I

13:08

could work with, like, where we might

13:10

have some overlap on foreign policy. And

13:12

he was like, Waltz and Stefanic, were

13:15

the two people that I turned to.

13:17

You know, he's like, it's just a

13:19

phonic, it's totally, you know, gone native

13:21

with the mega, and he's like, it

13:24

appears like Walt is doing the same,

13:26

so I mean, we'll see, I'll then

13:28

shake out this week, but the signs

13:31

are not positive, and it's really a

13:33

sign of kind of kind of submission

13:35

to the Trump world, you, from all

13:37

these folks. What do you think is

13:40

the likelihood that Zelenski gets his way.

13:42

So he was speaking at the Munich

13:44

Security Council and he said, we need

13:47

an armed forces of Europe. This is

13:49

after J.D. Vance essentially took a flame

13:51

thrower to our relationship with Europe in

13:53

his speech. Clearly, Zelenski does not see

13:56

us as the top partner opportunity for

13:58

him going forward. Do you think Europe

14:00

is really... going to unify without us?

14:03

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't see us

14:05

as the top partner opportunity either if

14:07

I was saying, yeah. No, I think

14:09

Europe will. I think it could be

14:12

a positive outgrowth of like the Trump

14:14

worldview that Europe ends up, you know.

14:16

stepping up their game on defense and

14:18

you know takes more responsibility and it's

14:21

not like they I don't want to

14:23

say they're not taking any responsibility for

14:25

their own defense but but actually you

14:28

know you know sort of take seriously

14:30

the act that they might have to

14:32

go it alone at some point and

14:34

you've seen this from people from Europeans

14:37

at the Munich Security Conference leader NATO

14:39

said something to this effect which was

14:41

pretty secretary general rather which is pretty

14:44

alarming so I think that's possibly positive

14:46

but like like Okay, that has potential

14:48

massive negative ramifications for us. There was

14:50

a woman who is a journalist in

14:53

Ukraine who his quote just really kind

14:55

of dropped me in my feet over

14:57

the weekend. She said this, her name

14:59

is Anna Murlakina. She was from Moirapal

15:02

and like had to flee to Kiev.

15:04

She said, when you live in a

15:06

world that is crumbling under your feet,

15:09

the only thing that helps you survive

15:11

is to believe in guidelines and civilized

15:13

democratic countries that uphold values. When countries

15:15

like the United States cease to be

15:18

pillars, there is nothing to hope for.

15:20

I mean, that is... Like that is

15:22

a jaw dropping quote from somebody over

15:25

in Ukraine and I just think that's

15:27

reflective of how people in Europe are

15:29

going to see us and then I

15:31

just believe that there'll be negative ramifications

15:34

for that down the line. We don't

15:36

exactly know how or when but you

15:38

know I think that Europe will kind

15:41

of decide that they should be prepared

15:43

to go without us. Going back to

15:45

I guess we we got into ineffective

15:47

Democrats very early on in the podcast

15:50

but I do Maybe just because I

15:52

work in communication, I guess that I

15:54

always think that there was an opportunity

15:56

to do better if we had messaged

15:59

properly. about this and it doesn't feel

16:01

like we have made the case. This

16:03

is Democrats and Republicans, like obviously, you

16:06

know, Mitch McConnell and the kind of

16:08

more traditional set have been, you know,

16:10

screaming from the rooftops at a low

16:12

pitch, he doesn't scream so loud anymore

16:15

at 83, but have been trying to

16:17

talk about the importance of keeping together,

16:19

the democratic world order and that you

16:22

need to swore countries that share our

16:24

values. It feels like that has

16:26

just fallen on completely deaf ears

16:28

and that people have moved to

16:30

this world where it's what about

16:32

me first and can't see the

16:35

second order effects if we end

16:37

up abandoning. Ukraine. So do you

16:39

think there's anything we could have

16:41

done or this storm, which is

16:43

taking over the world, right? Was

16:46

there any way to stop this?

16:48

On this one, I'll let you

16:50

make fun of the Democrats' communications,

16:52

and I'll take responsibility for my

16:54

people. You do you? I think

16:56

possibly no, because of Iraq, honestly.

16:59

I do think that it was

17:01

just such a debacle that there,

17:03

you know, within the country, like

17:05

there has just become an increased...

17:07

skepticism is probably not even there,

17:09

or like hostility to the idea

17:12

that we should be involved overseas

17:14

in foreign conflicts. And I think

17:16

it's very complicated to then say, okay, well,

17:18

This is not a rock, right? Like

17:20

Ukraine is different, like we don't have

17:23

troops on the ground, we're not trying

17:25

to do regime change, we're trying to

17:27

defend an ally, and that helps us

17:30

because, you know, if Russia successfully overtakes

17:32

Ukraine, that's going to demonstrate weakness, you

17:34

know, to the, you know, rules-based order,

17:36

and that could cause threats to us

17:39

down the line, right? Like it's just,

17:41

it's a complicated point to make, right,

17:43

especially in the face of, you know,

17:46

like, like, pretty bipartisan. increasingly

17:48

like opposition to us playing this

17:50

role in the world. And so

17:53

to me the obligation is then

17:55

like this is what Trump has

17:57

unraveled is that there were a

17:59

number of things that are

18:01

not really popular among the

18:03

whole country that leaders in

18:05

both parties continued to do,

18:08

such as USAID, because it

18:10

was the right thing to

18:12

do and because they were

18:14

responsible leaders, right? And sometimes

18:16

that is required. This is

18:18

not ancient Greece. We don't have

18:20

a direct democracy on purpose. Not

18:22

everything should be decided based on...

18:24

50% plus one vote, you know,

18:26

if that is true, I would

18:28

have never gotten married, right? Like,

18:31

that was a, if that was

18:33

an opposite opposed vote, until the

18:35

Supreme Court did it, right? Like,

18:37

eventually, sometimes leaders have to do

18:39

things that are unpopular because they're

18:41

the right thing to do. Maybe

18:43

sometimes they get held accountable for

18:45

that. Trump, because he doesn't, like,

18:47

have. really core values or empathy

18:50

or care about you know

18:52

the American idea doesn't believe

18:54

that doesn't believe that American

18:56

interests has wiped away all

18:59

of that and so I

19:01

don't know that the Democrats

19:03

could have you know just by

19:05

making their messaging better you

19:07

know changed people's view of this

19:10

or you know broadly America's role when it

19:12

comes to aid so I mean I think

19:14

that you could probably give a few of

19:16

them some lessons on how to make those

19:18

arguments better having watched you on the five

19:20

and having watched some of them but I

19:23

don't know that it would have actually made

19:25

the difference in this case. It's just such

19:27

a big failure when you think about

19:29

how core Biden made it to his

19:32

reason for being right. I mean part

19:34

of it was I have to get

19:36

you all through COVID and I can

19:38

be America's grandpa and I'm the most

19:40

empathetic man you ever met, but it

19:43

was also like this return to normalcy

19:45

and you know people's lived experience was

19:47

just so not commensurate with the world

19:49

that he was talking about that they

19:51

were just like F you, right? I'm out. It

19:53

was a failure and I don't

19:56

and I mean obviously Biden's inability

19:58

to deliver a message. had ramifications. Like

20:00

what, you know, in this case, was

20:03

that, you know, was that the key

20:05

difference? I don't know, but I mean,

20:07

I think it was a problem across

20:09

multiple verticals and it relates to the

20:12

Democratic stuff now. It's just, he was

20:14

not, he was absent, right? And there

20:16

was a moment in 2020 where I

20:18

think people were so fucking sick of

20:21

the news and Trump and COVID, like

20:23

the idea that Biden wouldn't be in

20:25

their lives every day. as crises unfold,

20:27

that as inflation happened, as the invoiation

20:29

of Ukraine happened, as 10-7 happened, you

20:32

know, people need somebody that can talk

20:34

to them, right, and to deliver a

20:36

compelling message and that can, you know,

20:38

demonstrate leadership traits or demonstrate strength at

20:41

least, and I think that that was

20:43

like kind of missing from the last

20:45

couple years of the last administration. I

20:47

would even say that... the quality of

20:50

the messaging wouldn't have mattered as much

20:52

as it was happening as more frequently

20:54

that people actually just want to physically

20:56

see you and then their minds run

20:58

wild and obviously there are people who

21:01

are feeding this that are like oh

21:03

he's not here because he's dead but

21:05

he'll be awake at two o'clock and

21:07

then he's gonna die again I totally

21:10

agree that I never compliment Trump so

21:12

it's just so you want but like

21:14

guy has been every like there was

21:16

this thing on on the left in

21:19

like resistance world like during the campaign

21:21

that was like Trump is just as

21:23

old as Biden and Trump's you know

21:25

brain is putting too and like the

21:28

media it's so unfair that the media

21:30

is making the Biden age thing like

21:32

the only thing it's like I kept

21:34

saying I don't think that is true

21:36

like Trump gives off crazy energy not

21:39

old energy like he just does and

21:41

since he's been in there I thought

21:43

it was an unknown and like could

21:45

might Trump win and just be so

21:48

happy that he's not in jail that

21:50

he's just gonna golf and like go

21:52

on the NASCAR track which he did

21:54

and like do the fun stuff do

21:57

the fun stuff in the accoutre mall

21:59

of the presidency and not do everything

22:01

else and that's been the opposite like

22:03

he's given more press conferences than anybody

22:05

like dude is like I lose track

22:08

of all the press conference he's done.

22:10

Like I missed one on Friday. You

22:12

know, he's talking to media all the

22:14

time. And I'm sorry, like, that is

22:17

how to do it in the modern

22:19

media age. And I think that that

22:21

is something that those of us who

22:23

oppose him could learn from. Yes, be

22:26

everywhere all the time, even if they

22:28

don't like you and their feed. I

22:30

have this conversation constantly with people. I'm

22:32

like, oh, but the engagement is so

22:35

mean. And they're like, but it's engagement.

22:37

That's what Trump understands. like all the

22:39

hate comments, they're still thinking about you.

22:41

You're still living, what did they say,

22:43

like rent-free in your head? I want

22:46

to talk to you about the AP,

22:48

but just really quickly, did you, I

22:50

shouldn't say, did you make anything because

22:52

it obviously is a big deal about

22:55

the State Department taking down the statement

22:57

that they, that we do not support?

22:59

Taiwan's independence and like that feels like

23:01

it's flying in the face of the

23:04

way that we're moving with Russia because

23:06

obviously that's China's red line. That feels

23:08

like signature rubio to me who's such

23:10

a big China hawk. Do you think

23:12

anything's going to come of this or

23:15

maybe I'm wrong about this but I

23:17

kind of just see Taiwan going the

23:19

same path as Ukraine right where there

23:21

is some resistance inside the administration that

23:24

like once you know, it wants us

23:26

to be stronger in that case and

23:28

that there's some resistance among Republicans on

23:30

the Hill, resistance, or some views among

23:33

Republicans on the Hill and in the

23:35

administration, there are more hawkish on Taiwan

23:37

than Trump's itself. But Trump was asked

23:39

about Taiwan at one of his 100

23:42

press conferences we were just talking about

23:44

recently, and he goes on a rant

23:46

about how they've been stealing our jobs

23:48

and how, you know, jobs for the,

23:50

the chips need to be coming back

23:53

to America. And I... I just if

23:55

you just looked at the tone of

23:57

his comments it didn't sound like the

23:59

tone of somebody that's ready to put

24:02

American defense power on the line to

24:04

protect Taiwan and I just don't see

24:06

how a Trump Vance administration you know

24:08

who has just laid the groundwork with

24:11

their followers that they only care about

24:13

us first they only care about American

24:15

interest first, we shouldn't care about what's

24:17

happening on the other side of the

24:19

globe. If a conflagration happened with China

24:22

and Taiwan, I just don't know how

24:24

they can go to their supporters and

24:26

be like, oh yeah, actually, we need

24:28

to put in a couple hundred billion

24:31

here, or God forbid, troops, or ships,

24:33

or whatever. I don't see it. Marco

24:35

might be trying to fool himself into

24:37

thinking that Trump sees China differently because

24:40

it's a bigger threat, but I... I

24:42

think that if push came to shove,

24:44

we'd see pretty much the same thing

24:46

we see from him on Ukraine. All

24:48

right, so we've got a rogue Rubio

24:51

moment. That's how I see it. And

24:53

I think Trump likes that, actually, too,

24:55

by the way. I will say this.

24:57

I think Trump doesn't mind if people

25:00

are confused. You know, like his, he

25:02

benefits from us being confused. Yeah, right.

25:04

And so I think it's, I don't

25:06

think that like he's like mad at

25:09

Marco over this. I think that he's

25:11

like, well, you know, we'll keep them

25:13

on their toes. Like that's part of

25:15

Trump's mindset. Taiwan. That would be the

25:18

bad idea. Yeah, like let them put

25:20

whatever they want on their silly website

25:22

about cooperation with Taiwan. Okay, moving on

25:24

to something else, sad. I want to

25:26

talk about the AP getting banned. So

25:29

they were kicked out of the press

25:31

briefings and then they weren't allowed, a

25:33

photographer and a reporter weren't allowed on

25:35

the presidential plane. And there was a

25:38

big, I shouldn't, I feel so. lame

25:40

to say there was a big explainer

25:42

because it wasn't even like a real

25:44

piece of journalism, but I got a

25:47

nifty newsletter from Axie, I was talking

25:49

about the kind of history of this

25:51

administration's objections to the AP, and basically

25:53

they're mad that the AP style book

25:55

has used terms that they hate too

25:58

liberally, like gender, DEI, inclusivity, etc. I'm

26:00

old enough to remember when the other

26:02

news stations stood with Fox News when

26:04

the Obama administration wasn't going to let

26:07

them in to do a pool briefing

26:09

with a representative from the administration and

26:11

basically ABC NBC CBS they all said

26:13

if Fox can't do it then we're

26:16

not doing it and then they let

26:18

them in begrudgingly but it doesn't feel

26:20

like that moment is happening at all

26:22

like everyone is bemoaning the fact that

26:25

the AP is being excluded but no

26:27

one is doing anything about it and

26:29

I mean this feels like a pretty

26:31

obvious we a don't know what the

26:33

First Amendment means and B we don't

26:36

care. and we're running this like the

26:38

Wild West. Yeah, and the asymmetry is

26:40

just so obvious. It's almost like, you

26:42

know, the dog bites man to even

26:45

mention it. But like, yeah, I mean,

26:47

look, so in part, I actually would

26:49

be defensive of the other mainstream outlets,

26:51

like, because I think that if ABC

26:54

and NBC and CBS said we're going

26:56

to boycott in solidarity with AP, I

26:58

think I feel like the Trump administration

27:00

would be like, okay. peace, you know.

27:02

Yeah, so it's kind of like the

27:05

conservative outlets need to do it, right?

27:07

Like, and they're not going to. So

27:09

I don't, you know, I mean, that's

27:11

like the situation. I think everybody should

27:14

just be aware of like what time

27:16

it is and what's what's happening out

27:18

there. As far as like the more

27:20

interesting part of this, and obviously there's

27:23

the First Amendment threat here, but to

27:25

me is how all in these guys

27:27

are going on like you know, what

27:29

I call patriotic correctness. Like, you know,

27:32

it's not just enough to stop doing,

27:34

you know, pro-de-i activities. They need to

27:36

snuff out anybody that is using words

27:38

or language that they don't like. Right?

27:40

And to a preposterous extent, right? Like

27:43

the idea that like everybody has to

27:45

use the new name of the Gulf

27:47

that they just changed one minute ago,

27:49

like it, you know, or else they're

27:52

going to be banned, is ridiculous, right?

27:54

And in some ways it's ridiculous as

27:56

some of the most extreme things that

27:58

you see, like on the far left,

28:01

on PC, like demanding that people, you

28:03

know, use, you know, use Latin X

28:05

or whatever, right? And so I do

28:07

wonder if it's going to backfire on

28:09

them eventually. Are people really for this?

28:12

Like it feels very mockable. So obviously

28:14

it's serious, but I do think they

28:16

are very much being responsive to something

28:18

that only like a tiny group of

28:21

far-right trolls who are super online actually

28:23

care about. And I don't know if

28:25

that's like a path to long-term success

28:27

for the right. No. They definitely. just

28:30

want to get in as many kind

28:32

of gloating laps early on. I think

28:34

that they know that it just gets

28:36

more and more complicated, and certainly as

28:39

we head into special elections and the

28:41

midterms and things like that, which hopefully

28:43

Democrats will perform better than we did.

28:45

So you do think that's conscious that

28:47

like they're like, hey, you know. This

28:50

isn't going to last forever, this like

28:52

gloating honeymoon, and so we want to

28:54

like rub their face and shit as

28:56

for as long as possible. Like, and

28:59

there's a little bit of that. I

29:01

think they can look to past administrations

29:03

and say, okay, you know, your first

29:05

two years or when you can actually

29:08

get things done, right? They have control

29:10

of everything. They're definitely trying it on.

29:12

Right, to the largest extent possible. You

29:14

know, let's ram through four and a

29:16

half trillion in tax cuts. Like, let's

29:19

try to cut all of these entitlement

29:21

programs. Now, they realize that they're not

29:23

going to get their wish list of

29:25

all of it, but they are at

29:28

a moment where they're owning the culture.

29:30

And so I feel like they're just

29:32

taking advantage and saying, okay, well, if

29:34

we... having graciated ourselves to a segment

29:37

of the American population that wouldn't have

29:39

given us their time at all four

29:41

eight years ago, let's really go for

29:43

it. And you can tell that also

29:46

in the attitude that Caroline Leavitt, the

29:48

press secretary, has about everything. I mean,

29:50

she's so haughty and arrogant in the

29:52

way that she delivers everything, which I,

29:54

listen, I wish that I had more

29:57

of that in me. I wish I

29:59

didn't have such a terrible case of

30:01

imposter symptoms. like to be 27 years

30:03

old and to walk up there with

30:06

that you know. It's a fact. Right.

30:08

This is a fact. Right. Or like

30:10

every man in Gaza is wearing a

30:12

condom that we paid for. Well, actually,

30:15

no. No, that's not true. In Mozambique,

30:17

there are some condoms, the God's end.

30:19

You know, and it's the Trump bravado,

30:21

that if you say it a certain

30:23

way, there's at least a good amount

30:26

of people that are going to believe

30:28

you. And I think that they're living

30:30

for the moment, right. It's like a

30:32

yellow administration. at this point. And until

30:35

there are real consequences, I think they're

30:37

going to go for it with everything.

30:39

I mean, the AP is calling Mount

30:41

Anali, Mount McKinley, right now. I mean,

30:44

they're doing half of the crazy thing.

30:46

Is that true, like your comment about

30:48

how they're owning the culture now? I

30:50

can't figure this out. Like, is that

30:52

actually true? Or does it just kind

30:55

of feel like it's true? And maybe

30:57

that's a distinction without it. Would I

30:59

be able to? Yeah, maybe that's a

31:01

distinction without a difference, right? But I

31:04

don't, I'm kind of like, is it

31:06

just political obsessives who feel this way?

31:08

I mean, did people's lives really just

31:10

change, like, did they change, like their

31:13

mindset on this sort of stuff, like

31:15

overnight? I don't know. Well, they're owning

31:17

infrequent voters. That's true. That are 18

31:19

to 40. Right? And those are real

31:22

culture vultures. Those are people that are

31:24

listening to podcasts. Those are people who

31:26

are concerned about all of the dies

31:28

in our food. Those are people who

31:30

are picking schools for their kids to

31:33

go to and are disenchanted with the

31:35

public school system and wanting to get

31:37

away from feeling like they have to

31:39

use gender pronouns on their email signatures.

31:42

I mean, these are real things that

31:44

folks are thinking about. And so I

31:46

don't know if owning the culture is

31:48

the right way. to put it because

31:51

I still don't think that Kid Rock

31:53

is cooler than Jay-Z that will just

31:55

never happen. But, you know, I watch.

31:57

You know, I watch. I know, I

31:59

can't. I can't fight the 40 and

32:02

I'm 41. in a couple of weeks.

32:04

No, but Kitrock was on Bill Maher

32:06

on Friday night and I found the

32:08

interview really interesting. I mean, it was

32:11

first of all, I had forgotten, I

32:13

guess, that he played Obama's inauguration in

32:15

2008. And he was like, it's not

32:17

as if I liked Obama then. You

32:20

just show up and you do this.

32:22

But he was essentially mocking us for...

32:24

like liberal leaning people and you knew

32:26

new to the side of the fence,

32:29

but for freaking out about everything all

32:31

the time. And I do think that

32:33

they are owning the culture by making

32:35

it clear that majority of people feel

32:37

like it's just not that serious. And

32:40

part of that is a mistake on

32:42

Democrats' part by not making it feel

32:44

like It's that serious in practical ways,

32:46

not like the sky is actually going

32:49

to fall, but like this is the

32:51

way that your checkbook is going to

32:53

be affected. This is where your kid

32:55

is going to be affected. But like,

32:58

people are walking around just saying, I

33:00

don't think politics is that serious. And

33:02

the Republican side seems like that right

33:04

now. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, that

33:06

goes against, you know, my entire like.

33:09

like everything in my body wants to

33:11

reject that like you know some like

33:13

things are serious things matter actually but

33:15

I do it makes me curious about

33:18

the Federman kind of model because he

33:20

that like that's kind of what he's

33:22

doing basically which is like mocking like

33:24

progressive who are like hyperventilating while like

33:27

just basically voting with the Democrats all

33:29

the time. And I don't think that

33:31

every Democrat should act like that, but

33:33

I do wonder if there is some

33:36

potential efficacy to having a couple of

33:38

Democrats out there who have more of

33:40

a slack or energy to try to

33:42

break through. All right, let's take a

33:44

quick break. Stay with us. Last

33:49

week we at Today Explain brought

33:51

you an episode titled The Joe

33:53

Rogan of the Left. The Joe

33:56

Rogan of the Left was in

33:58

quotations. It was mostly about a

34:00

guy named Hasan Piker who saw...

34:02

Some say is the Joe Rogan

34:04

of the left, but enough about

34:07

Joe. We made an episode about

34:09

Hassan because the Democrats are really

34:11

courting this dude. So Hassan Piker

34:13

is... Really the only major prominent

34:16

leftist on twitch, at least the

34:18

only one who talks about politics

34:20

all day. What's going on everybody?

34:22

I hope everyone's having a fantastic

34:24

evening afternoon pre-new no matter where-

34:27

They want his cosine, they want

34:29

his endorsement because he's young and

34:31

he reaches millions of young people

34:33

streaming on YouTube, Tiktok, and especially

34:36

Twitch. But last week he was

34:38

streaming us. Yeah, I was listening

34:40

on stream when you guys were

34:42

like, hey, you should come on

34:44

the show if you're listening. I

34:47

was like, oh, oh yeah. I

34:49

am. Yeah. Thank you for listening.

34:51

Head over to the Today Explain

34:53

Feed to hear Hasan Piker explain

34:56

himself. If you've been online this

34:58

week, you've probably seen an unending

35:00

flood of those beautiful animated studio

35:02

gibly style images of everything from

35:04

happy families being together to beloved

35:07

cartoon characters committing unspeakable acts of

35:09

violence against each other. That, my

35:11

friends, is the AI world we

35:13

live in, and it's not going

35:16

to get less complicated. That is

35:18

what we were talking about this

35:20

week on the Virgcast, along with

35:22

the future of robot vacuums, what's

35:24

happening with car tariffs, and everything

35:27

else going on in the AI

35:29

world. All that, on the Virgcast,

35:31

wherever you get podcasts. Welcome

35:37

back. Mayor Eric Adams just got a

35:39

legal lifeline, but it came from the

35:42

most controversial figure in New York politics,

35:44

Donald Trump. The Trump administration's Justice Department

35:46

dropped Adams' corruption case, but in a

35:48

city where Trump remains deeply unpopular, that

35:50

reprieve could be more of a political

35:52

liability than a win. Now Adams is

35:55

facing accusations of being in Trump's pocket,

35:57

especially after appearing alongside Trump's borders are...

35:59

Tom Holman and making moves that align

36:01

with the president's immigration policies. Meanwhile, all

36:03

the cases dismissal has sparked a crisis

36:05

inside Trump's DOJ, a mass resignation of

36:07

prosecutors, including one who accused DOJ leaders

36:10

of looking for a, quote, fool to

36:12

take the fall. Have you been following

36:14

that? Probably not as closely as me.

36:16

Maybe I'm supposed to be you, but

36:18

I have been following it because here's

36:20

why I'm into it. Hagen Scott, who

36:23

you, he's the guy you mentioned, who

36:25

said that, uh... I expect you'll eventually

36:27

find someone who's enough of a fool

36:29

or a coward to file your file

36:31

your motion. This guy is like special

36:33

forces dude who... Toy Bronze Stars? Probably

36:35

the two, maybe two, whatever. I'll give

36:38

him a third for this if he

36:40

only has two, but who clerked for...

36:42

So I believe he was Kavanaugh and

36:44

Roberts and then... Daniel Sassoon, who's the

36:46

original person who read the letter to

36:48

Emil Bove, she was Scalia, a Scalia

36:51

Clark. Both, I mean, both, like, Scott

36:53

and his letter. kind of subtly implies

36:55

that he likes Trump. I can't forget

36:57

exactly how he put it, but he

36:59

was like, I could kind of see

37:01

the perspective. He's like, some people might

37:04

be quitting because they're really upset with

37:06

his administration. Like, that's not me. And

37:08

I kind of see how a businessman

37:10

could think this was a good deal.

37:12

It's just not legal. Like that's the

37:14

TLDR summary of his letter. And so

37:16

the fact that it's these two people

37:19

who are Fed sock folks who are

37:21

stepping out. That's Federalist Society for maybe

37:23

raging moderates audiences are not as in

37:25

it as the bulwark or like Fed

37:27

Sox. You know, so they're like conservative

37:29

legal folks who are just saying no,

37:32

who are like standing up and saying

37:34

I'm not going to go along with

37:36

this. And I think that's pretty powerful.

37:38

And it comes at a time when

37:40

I don't know, at least maybe just

37:42

me or maybe just a bulwark people

37:45

are like thirsting for people to be

37:47

showing a little bit more backbone right

37:49

now. And so I've, that's kind of.

37:51

I've been following it less on the

37:53

legal nerd side, but just more on

37:55

this is kind of how you do

37:57

it as far as standing up to

38:00

illiberal. actions. Yeah, I mean, I was into

38:02

it. I had been feeling starved,

38:04

I guess, for some old

38:06

school intellectual resistance, I guess,

38:08

not people out there with

38:10

a sign, you know, like

38:12

hands off my whatever, but

38:14

I don't feel like those signs

38:16

too. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I like

38:19

them, but they're not getting us

38:21

really anywhere at this point. But

38:23

it feels like what they're

38:26

doing. is because it's a harbinger of

38:28

bad things to come. So the Adams case

38:30

itself, or at least what we know

38:32

about it, you would expect more, I

38:34

guess, in the indictment. He definitely broke

38:36

the law, and I thought that Sassoon's

38:39

letter was, you know, very specific about

38:41

that. And that does matter to people

38:43

that are career prosecutors who take the

38:45

law very seriously. But to me,

38:47

I felt a little bit of a, if you

38:49

think that we're just going to roll over for

38:52

all of this from like the lighter fare

38:54

of this, which obviously has very

38:56

real implications for New York City

38:58

politics and national politics even, but

39:00

that they're scared of what this

39:02

administration is going to be asking

39:04

them to do. Like Pam Bondi

39:06

will see us all as folks that

39:08

are ready to just line up and rubber

39:10

stamp whatever is to come and they can't

39:13

help the fact even though Bondi was one

39:15

of the... less or controversial nominees, which

39:17

it just speaks to how crazy

39:19

the set of nominees were. But

39:21

you know, Pam Bondi was all

39:23

in on the 2020 election, was

39:25

rigged out there, front and center

39:27

on that. And to me, it

39:29

felt like a little bit of

39:31

a cry for help or at least

39:33

a signal of like, we can't. be

39:36

there for whatever they are going to

39:38

try because they've spent so much time

39:40

bemoaning quote-unquote lawfare and it is very

39:42

clear that they are looking to weaponize

39:44

everything back for their own benefit. Yeah

39:47

and we also had a US trainee

39:49

down here in Louisiana who quit. I think

39:51

that there are a lot of those warning

39:53

signs happening. I mean this guy, the character

39:55

that I've been watching closely in this thing

39:57

is this, I kind of hate saying his

39:59

name. Emil Bove. Kind of want to

40:02

call him like Emil Bove. I don't

40:04

know, it's kind of a pretentious name

40:06

for one for a magga. But anyway,

40:08

Bove was the person who in this

40:10

assumed letter, I think the most powerful

40:13

thing was like in the first footnote,

40:15

where she was like... Someone was

40:17

taking notes in the meeting where they

40:19

told us that they were going to,

40:21

you know, about the deal on the

40:23

prosecution and he collected the notes at

40:25

the end of the meeting, which is

40:27

like no note-taking, which, you know, feels

40:29

very fascistic. The, oh, also kind of

40:31

dumb, sort of, and I guess a

40:33

lot of times fascism is dumb, like

40:35

dumb, it's like, okay, well, the notes

40:37

are gone, but people can still talk.

40:39

Because at least we can talk about

40:42

it, because at least we can talk

40:44

about it. who is at the center

40:46

of the FBI firings, right? And there's

40:48

a whistleblower, and if you saw that

40:51

over the weekend where, you know, they

40:53

were saying that Cash Patel lied during

40:55

his confirmation hearing because, you know, the

40:57

note taking in that meeting, the FBI

41:00

meeting said that Beauva had, and Stephen

41:02

Miller, were the ones who were asking

41:04

for this. So they have this like

41:06

kind of henchmen in at the DOJ,

41:09

and so I think that it is

41:11

pretty. It is good that, you know,

41:13

because there's always this debate, right?

41:15

Like, should people like this stay,

41:17

would we rather have Hagan Scott

41:20

and in there than whoever replaces

41:22

him? And I think that in my

41:24

view, it's actually better for these folks

41:26

to, you know, kick up a cloud

41:28

of dust here and, like, draw attention

41:31

to this person so people can watch

41:33

it. So it's not, like, happening, you

41:35

know, behind the scenes and cloak and

41:37

dagger. You do need good people to

41:39

stay. I said a couple of weeks

41:41

ago that we're, it's going to require

41:43

thousands of Mike Pence's to make it

41:46

through whatever is to come over the course

41:48

of the next four years. So I agree

41:50

with you and I think it's also matters

41:52

that this is happening so early on. I

41:54

can't believe we're only in the beginning of

41:56

the fourth week of this, but we are

41:59

going to need. people who are interested

42:01

in the rule of law in

42:03

a traditional sense not in the

42:05

rule of law just because I

42:07

said so in Napoleonic slash Trump

42:09

terms to reference his weekend tweeting

42:11

which did not feel like him

42:13

at all I don't know that

42:15

felt more musk. Here's the thing

42:17

that made me think it might

42:20

be him as reading an article

42:22

and that quote is actually from

42:24

a movie called Waterloo that's not

42:26

from Napoleon and then it's like...

42:28

It's accredited. I guess it's like

42:30

the direct quote is from Waterloo

42:32

the movie. The movie is in

42:34

1970 and that to me like

42:36

feels like it could be a

42:38

Trump cultural reference. You might have

42:40

watched a 1970s movie about Napoleon

42:42

like that feels like a thing

42:44

he might have watched but maybe

42:46

not I don't know that was

42:49

the only because I agreed with

42:51

you initially it did feel Musk

42:53

E but Or someone got control

42:55

of the phone for a second.

42:57

I don't want to belabor that

42:59

Adam's stuff that much, but part

43:01

of the deal that he's made,

43:03

which he claims he hasn't made

43:05

a deal with the administration, but

43:07

it's quite obvious since he had

43:09

to sit on the Fox and

43:11

Friends couch and be humiliated by

43:13

Tom Homan a couple days ago,

43:16

but is that they'll be. easing

43:18

or he's going to try to

43:20

ease sanctuary city laws as it

43:22

applies to rakers. And the way

43:24

that sanctuary city policy works in

43:26

New York is that ice can't

43:28

be near the prisons. And the

43:30

reason that that's the case is

43:32

not necessarily that we don't want

43:34

criminals to be deported, but it's

43:36

because they could pick up people

43:38

who haven't actually been convicted yet,

43:40

people who have just been charged

43:42

and not gone through their due

43:45

process, which they're entitled to. Do

43:47

you have any views kind of

43:49

thinking about the macro issue that

43:51

I think liberals are finding themselves

43:53

in as having been way too

43:55

lax about illegal migration? and even

43:57

too lax on people who are

43:59

here illegally and then committing violent

44:01

crimes on how we should be

44:03

approaching sanctuary policy. So my viewpoint,

44:05

which is I think different from

44:07

some of the conventional wisdom among

44:09

democratic strategists, is that like Maybe

44:11

because you're a Republican. In February

44:14

of 2025, like the right thing

44:16

to do is to fight these

44:18

guys tooth and nail and to

44:20

figure out what happened and figure

44:22

out with how things shake out

44:24

and in 2026 summer you can

44:26

decide to be strategic and like

44:28

figure out which issues are the

44:30

right ones for the for the

44:32

electorate. Like we don't fucking know

44:34

what's gonna happen over the next

44:36

year. So just fight him and

44:38

try to make him fail. My

44:40

exception to that. is like on

44:43

some of these, like there are

44:45

a couple of policies where just

44:47

the Democrats, like obviously got out

44:49

way too far to the left

44:51

away from public opinion. And I

44:53

just, I do think sanctuary cities

44:55

is one of them. I'm, I,

44:57

so like, I was, I'm like,

44:59

about as liberal on immigration as

45:01

you can get. Like I was

45:03

part of the. group of Republicans

45:05

that the Republican voters wanted to

45:07

overthrow and like the kind of

45:10

McCain view of the world of

45:12

immigration. So like I am extremely

45:14

sympathetic to immigrants and the plate

45:16

of immigrants who are fleeing you

45:18

know oppression or fleeing whatever and

45:20

want to come to America. That's

45:22

what America is about. Like that

45:24

said. Like some of the sanctuary,

45:26

you know, like some of the

45:28

sanctuary city stuff, it just got

45:30

overboard. It was just kind of

45:32

crazy. Like, and I understand there

45:34

might be like a specific reason

45:36

why it makes sense to not

45:39

have ice in the prisons, but

45:41

I just think that like fighting

45:43

over whether prisoner illegal migrants who

45:45

committed crimes in this country should

45:47

be deported is like maybe one

45:49

of the fights I would say.

45:51

I think you can take a

45:53

pass on this one, issue with

45:55

Democrats. So that would be my

45:57

view on that. Yeah, it's definitely

45:59

the way that a lot of

46:01

Democrats feel you already referenced John

46:03

Federman, or you'd be like, why

46:05

are you wasting my time with

46:08

this? Right. This is, you're in

46:10

a privileged position that you got

46:12

to be here illegally in the

46:14

first place. And you can just

46:16

see the next iteration of the

46:18

Charlemagne ad about. giving transgender surgeries

46:20

for undocumented people in prison being

46:22

written about something like this. It

46:24

doesn't change the fact that the

46:26

city council has to be the

46:28

ones to revise sanctuary city laws,

46:30

but I tend to agree with

46:32

you that kicking up a massive

46:35

fuss about it probably just allows

46:37

Trump and Co to continue to

46:39

say that we're so out of

46:41

step with where culture is. Here's

46:43

the other thing. they are going

46:45

to overstep on immigration. So here's

46:47

the area where I would say

46:49

Democrats do not, like, don't need

46:51

to be over cautious. But, like,

46:53

people do not want dreamers to

46:55

be deported, right? Like, people don't

46:57

want that. People don't want, like,

46:59

people who in this country, you

47:01

know, whose parents brought them to

47:04

this country when their kids, you

47:06

know, to be deported or to

47:08

be separated from their families. And

47:10

there are already a couple of

47:12

examples of, like, like, very sympathetic.

47:14

individuals who are being either detained

47:16

by ICE like one like there's

47:18

like a guy in Newark who

47:20

is a veteran who is like

47:22

detained by ICE and so I

47:24

think that there are going to

47:26

be ways to fight immigration from

47:28

a humanitarian standpoint that are beneficial

47:30

for Democrats and they should choose

47:33

those fights rather than fighting over

47:35

whether prison deportations happen or not

47:37

under the administration. Yeah, that leads

47:39

me to something I've been thinking

47:41

about in general about where Democrats

47:43

show up and stand up and

47:45

amplifying stories like that on a

47:47

local level versus in DC, unless,

47:49

you know. Unless you represent Virginia

47:51

or Maryland like I don't think

47:53

any of this should be going

47:55

on in DC. I think you

47:57

need to be back with your

47:59

people and talking about stories like

48:02

that. There was another one in

48:04

Milwaukee, which I talked about on

48:06

the five, and rarely do my

48:08

colleagues just shut up, but they

48:10

were like, oh my God, that

48:12

happened, where they took in a

48:14

toddler, a mom, and a grandmother

48:16

for speaking Spanish. And someone had

48:18

to come with birth certificates. They

48:20

were Puerto Rican. to get them

48:22

out of the detention center and

48:24

the idea of a two-year-old in

48:26

a detention center for allegedly, you

48:29

know, where we're going to be

48:31

holding people that have committed violent

48:33

crimes and were here illegally when

48:35

they're Americans and did nothing but

48:37

speak another language, seemed to hit

48:39

the audience hard. So, yeah, and

48:41

this is, well, I would say

48:43

local is fine, but... What you're

48:45

doing is, I think, probably the

48:47

most useful. Like on Fox and

48:49

on conservative media platforms and on

48:51

culturally conservative platforms, again, like people

48:53

have this totally wrong view of

48:55

what like the Manosphere podcasters think

48:58

about all this stuff. Like Bernie

49:00

Bros. Yeah, like you give specific

49:02

examples like the ones you're giving

49:04

like they're 80% issues like people

49:06

do not want most people besides

49:08

racist and like extreme, you know,

49:10

far right freaks do not want

49:12

people detained for speaking Spanish in

49:14

this country like that is not

49:16

something that is popular actually. And

49:18

so if you can focus on

49:20

a couple of those examples and

49:22

bring them in to the lions

49:24

den, I think that is like

49:27

a use a much more useful.

49:29

way to spend time than having

49:31

a press conference on the hill.

49:33

And I know Jared Moskowitz, I

49:35

saw, was on Fox over the

49:37

weekend. I just think that like

49:39

more is more on this stuff.

49:41

I always agree with you. And

49:43

it's always great when I see

49:45

others showing up, not even necessarily

49:47

to get the click bait that

49:49

worked in 2016, you know how

49:51

everything was just about owning the

49:54

other side and there were those

49:56

huge fights. Now it's like showing

49:58

up and being reasonable makes even

50:00

more of a difference because people's

50:02

partisan lines have been completely scrambled,

50:04

right? You can't predict it anymore

50:06

in the same way. And so

50:08

if you show up like Jared

50:10

Moskowitz did and you sound reasonable

50:12

about immigration, you know, he was

50:14

one of the first ones to

50:16

say, let me in the Doge

50:18

caucus, for instance, but then you

50:20

hold the line about stuff that

50:23

really matters and it gets amplified

50:25

like that because he was on,

50:27

you know, on prime time, they

50:29

love it. they're going to get

50:31

the clip out into their easor.

50:33

We'll get their clip out into

50:35

our easor and suddenly, you know,

50:37

Jared Moskowitz is president. Yeah, well,

50:39

you know, it's a good, well,

50:41

you know, it's a prime example

50:43

of this that I saw recently

50:45

was Zalenski did the Lex Friedman

50:47

interview, Lex Friedman interview, and like

50:49

if you just look at the

50:52

comments on Lex Friedman's YouTube, which

50:54

is like, he's like, he's like

50:56

contrarian, so he's in that sort

50:58

of... ecosystem. And so it's like

51:00

that is a mostly anti Ukraine

51:02

ecosystem. Zlonski does the interview and

51:04

like there were a lot of

51:06

people in the common. So we're

51:08

just kind of like, huh, like,

51:10

oh, I was expecting to hate

51:12

him a lot more. Or he

51:14

made a couple, you know, like,

51:16

so anyway, it's worth doing that.

51:18

Or even people with that interview

51:21

in particular who are big, less

51:23

freedmen people, but thought like he

51:25

went too far in. pushing him

51:27

to say that Russia should get

51:29

to keep territory that they obviously

51:31

illegally took. I thought that was,

51:33

even if it was just for

51:35

that sound bite, that it was

51:37

worth the three hours of Zelenski's

51:39

time to do it. I want

51:41

to get to the future of

51:43

the anti- trump Republican faction, but

51:45

quickly, are you pro-Komo anti-mo? Because

51:48

he, did you see the ad

51:50

he released? The Valentine's Day ad,

51:52

where he's with all of these

51:54

older women? mostly women of color

51:56

talking about how tough it is

51:58

right now for New Yorkers and

52:00

that we can always find a

52:02

way forward and that the opposite

52:04

of hate the four-letter word that

52:06

matters most is love. I think

52:08

it was the phraseology. I am,

52:10

I'm anti-quamo. I think that he

52:12

handled COVID atrociously in addition to

52:14

just all of his personal misdeeds.

52:17

I maybe have some personal bias.

52:19

I've got some friends who are

52:21

in who are in conflict with

52:23

Andrew Quamo, let's just say. And

52:25

so I think he's kind of

52:27

a creep. I will say though,

52:29

like... Democrats need more people that

52:31

like, who are like Cuomo who

52:33

talk normal. And he talks Italian,

52:35

but like, you can tell he's

52:37

being authentically himself. He doesn't talk

52:39

like a fucking valedictorian kid that's

52:41

trying to appease the bosses in

52:43

a PowerPoint presentation. And I think

52:46

that Democrats could learn from that.

52:48

And I don't, you know, I

52:50

don't... I'm no fan of his

52:52

in particular, but I think the

52:54

data is people want it. I

52:56

wouldn't be surprised if he's successful

52:58

in the mayor's race. Yeah, it's

53:00

pretty crazy to think about, but

53:02

the amount of normy Democrats that

53:04

I know who don't like Cuomo

53:06

for a whole host of reasons,

53:08

whether it's, you know, the sexual

53:10

harassment charges or even the management

53:12

of COVID and lost people in

53:15

nursing homes and just really wanted

53:17

an apology for him that he

53:19

couldn't. get out there just couldn't

53:21

muster the strength to say I

53:23

would have done things a little

53:25

bit differently, which I think would

53:27

have gone a tremendously long way.

53:29

They're like, I could use a

53:31

competent gangster right now. Like the

53:33

city is in shitty trouble at

53:35

this point. I hate being on

53:37

the subway. And he feels like

53:39

when you look at Adams on

53:42

the other side of this and

53:44

you think I'm not going to

53:46

go for someone as progressive as

53:48

like Scott Stringer, that he might

53:50

be the answer. Wuff. All

53:52

right. One more. It's just depressing. It

53:54

is a little depressing. But one more

53:56

quick. break, stay with us. Welcome back,

53:59

before we wrap, and we've already been

54:01

touching on this a little bit, but

54:03

I want to get into it more

54:05

deeply with you. There aren't that many

54:07

Republicans openly pushing back on Trump's agenda

54:09

these days. Mitch McConnell, for instance, was

54:12

the lone Republican to vote against confirming

54:14

Tulsa Gabbard and RFK Jr. And Tim,

54:16

you pointed out on the bulwark that

54:18

even the Wall Street Journal's editorial board

54:20

usually a pretty Trump-friendly, finally took a

54:22

shot at his economic policies. What do

54:25

you think is the future for the

54:27

anti- Trump Republicans in a party that

54:29

seems like they've given up a bit

54:31

besides an editorial or two? Yeah, there's

54:33

no future. Yeah, there's no future. There's

54:36

no present. I felt like... I felt

54:38

this way for a while. I'll give

54:40

you a little scoop. I don't know

54:42

if this is a scoop. Anybody cares

54:44

about me would care about this. Nobody

54:46

else would. Like I was planning on

54:49

writing a book that was about, you

54:51

know, that was the shorthand pitch for

54:53

it was Trump is forever. That I

54:55

just like, I feel like that the

54:57

magga, that the Republican voters want Trump

54:59

or something like it. Like whatever comes

55:02

after Trump, if he ever goes away,

55:04

you know, will obviously not be a

55:06

me. carbon copy of him because he

55:08

has like a lot of unique traits

55:10

and eccentricities and like it's you know

55:12

you've seen how hard it is to

55:15

copy him at the local level and

55:17

how that has failed in other ways

55:19

with you know Kerry Lake and others

55:21

but but directionally like the idea that

55:23

of America first of fighting these cultural

55:26

war battles of not caring about norms

55:28

and institutions and for you know not

55:30

caring about like the traditional you know

55:32

free markets and free people ethos of

55:34

the 80s and 90s 2000s Republicans like

55:36

all of that is gone right and

55:39

it was already going to be gone

55:41

even if Kamala Harris had one because

55:43

that's just what that parties are just

55:45

parties are not actually permanent coherent ideological

55:47

groups, they are a reflection of a

55:49

group of people. And that group of

55:52

people can change over time and it

55:54

might change them, it might change the

55:56

nature of the party. And Trump has

55:58

massively changed the makeup of the Republican

56:00

Party and as a result, that will

56:02

be in his image for at least,

56:05

you know, until the next realignment for

56:07

probably a quarter century or something. So

56:09

I just think that is what's happening.

56:11

I think that will be individual fights

56:13

on the... on the outskirts, right? Like

56:16

you mentioned this Wall Street Journal article,

56:18

which was an attack on him over

56:20

tariffs and pushing for lower interest rates

56:22

given threats for inflation. You know, if

56:24

we get into a more normal future

56:26

in 2028 where Trump doesn't try to

56:29

run again and like, you know, there's

56:31

a primary that will be some people

56:33

who are like, Trumpy or pro-tariff and

56:35

there will be some people who are

56:37

more traditional free market conservative on trade

56:39

and on some of those issues, you

56:42

know, it won't. always fall on the

56:44

Trump side of the line. I think

56:46

that there will still be skirmish, little

56:48

skirmishes in the ideological coalition, but directionally

56:50

things are to Trump. And people, nobody

56:52

is gonna stand up to them, except

56:55

for people like Mitch McConnell, who are

56:57

already one foot out the door. And

56:59

that's basically what we've seen for like

57:01

a decade now. Do you have any

57:03

idea about what? happened during these confirmations

57:06

to people like Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins,

57:08

Todd Young in Indiana, or I should

57:10

say from Indiana, who was really anti-Tulsi,

57:12

for instance. I mean, is it straight,

57:14

like, doxings threatening you with a primary?

57:16

Like, Bill Cassidy already voted to convict

57:19

him. So I don't, this idea that...

57:21

He promised Cassidy to essentially RFK Jr.

57:23

to not be who he is, right?

57:25

And to say you can be my

57:27

dad and you can check in on

57:29

me every day and make sure that

57:32

I'm not going to do these things

57:34

when even the CDC site already has

57:36

information about the flu down. So obviously

57:38

that's not going to hold up. Like

57:40

what level? of threatening or trolling was

57:42

going on to make people like this

57:45

lay down and vote for every single

57:47

one of these nominees. Yeah, and the

57:49

Joanie Ernst's thing with Higgs, that was

57:51

really, you know, I think the task

57:53

case, yeah, for this. I mean, I

57:56

was in, I worked in Iowa, so

57:58

I worked in Iowa, I was in

58:00

Iowa, like during when all this was

58:02

happening, it was like about, and I

58:04

was like at an event with a

58:06

lot of Republicans. And, you know, it

58:09

was like in between when she had

58:11

spoken out and when she had kind

58:13

of folded, right? And there, to a

58:15

person, I could not find a person

58:17

at this event that thought she was

58:19

going to hold the line, eventually. And

58:22

there were some very pro-joney people there,

58:24

right? And people who like her like

58:26

no, because... The voters wanted you know

58:28

want Trump to get what he wants.

58:30

Like that's what they want. And so

58:33

she was just getting totally bullied, online,

58:35

phone calls, and I think the other

58:37

senators really saw that. I think in

58:39

addition to that, I do think in

58:41

these private meetings, Trump and then basically

58:43

said to the nominees, just tell these

58:46

people whatever they want to hear, who

58:48

cares, we'll figure it out on the

58:50

back end, right? Because these are not

58:52

rigid ideologues. Like it's, that is not

58:54

what Trump is. So I think that

58:56

helped, you know, give a rationale. to

58:59

some of these senators to do the

59:01

easy thing. And I also just, I,

59:03

Jesse, I just fundamentally don't think anybody

59:05

was going to actually stand up besides

59:07

McConnell who's one step out the door

59:09

and Mikowski and Colinz will choose their

59:12

spots because they have kind of a

59:14

different sort of brand. Everybody else, I

59:16

was with Gates. at a TPU, I

59:18

go to the TPUSA annual gathering every

59:20

year to just kind of, well you

59:23

live in Fox World, I don't, I

59:25

want to make sure I'm not in

59:27

my little bubble, my little resistance, you

59:29

know, former, never Trump bubble. It's fine,

59:31

no, no, no, it's fine. The types

59:33

of people go to those sorts of

59:36

things are. The people we got to

59:38

worry about are the people who are

59:40

alone in their basement getting radicalized honestly,

59:42

like people that show up to a

59:44

gathering. At least I found them to

59:46

be relatively sociable. I had a few

59:49

people shit talk to me, but I

59:51

never felt unsafe. They're not bad to

59:53

your face, ever. I've always found everyone

59:55

is like, I feel so terrible that

59:57

I've been calling you the C-word online

59:59

for three years, and I'm like, well,

1:00:02

stop doing that, and I'm so nice.

1:00:04

Do you want a picture? Yeah, right.

1:00:06

That's hilarious. So anyway, I was with

1:00:08

Gates, and I was like, why did

1:00:10

you were going to get through? And

1:00:13

Gates was like, well, John Curtis, the

1:00:15

guy from Utah, from Utah, who replaced,

1:00:17

who replaced, who replaced, told me, and

1:00:19

I wasn't taped, it wasn't an interview,

1:00:21

so I wasn't taping it, so I

1:00:23

forget the exact line, but it was

1:00:26

something like, I would sacrifice my children

1:00:28

before I would confirm you. It was

1:00:30

some like very ostentatious comment about, and

1:00:32

so Gates was like, I didn't think,

1:00:34

you know, it was clear I was

1:00:36

going to get through. And I said

1:00:39

to him, I was like, eh, Curtis

1:00:41

would have folded. And I like really

1:00:43

think I'm right about that. Like I

1:00:45

do think that there is a lot

1:00:47

of behind the scenes people, you know,

1:00:49

trying to use a little influence they

1:00:52

can without creating any backlash. Like when

1:00:54

push comes to shove, like the voters

1:00:56

are where their voters are. And so

1:00:58

like that is why you're not saying

1:01:00

anybody, like the Todd Youngs of the

1:01:03

world actually stand up. Yeah. Unpopular opinion,

1:01:05

but I don't think that you... have

1:01:07

to do everything that the voters want.

1:01:09

Like they picked a person who can

1:01:11

also think for themselves, who broadly represents

1:01:13

their interests, right, and understands their constituency,

1:01:16

but can think for themselves. So if

1:01:18

you pick, you know, one of 15

1:01:20

people that you don't think is unqualified

1:01:22

for to kind of lay down your

1:01:24

marker in the sand and say, your

1:01:26

children will be vaccinated, or we will

1:01:29

not have someone who thinks Assad wasn't

1:01:31

really that bad, that that might be

1:01:33

good for you long term. but I'm

1:01:35

also not running for public office. It's

1:01:37

a popular opinion, me. I say that

1:01:39

to the Republicans I talk to all

1:01:42

the time, and fewer and fewer of

1:01:44

them actually want to talk to me,

1:01:46

so. you know maybe that's part of

1:01:48

my lot my influence isn't working but

1:01:50

I'm like you don't have to be

1:01:53

me like I'm not asking Republican senators

1:01:55

or congressmen to troll Trump online you

1:01:57

know to try to own him you

1:01:59

know to like fight everything like there's

1:02:01

a huge space between me and like

1:02:03

total submission and it's just like they've

1:02:06

kind of decided to abandon that whole

1:02:08

space. Like there's just nobody that has

1:02:10

decided to try to occupy that and

1:02:12

succeed. And I think that's wrong. I

1:02:14

think people could, I mean, Collins, I

1:02:16

guess, is the example, is the example.

1:02:19

Like, I don't really love Susan Collins,

1:02:21

everything that she's done, but she did

1:02:23

manage to occupy that space in between

1:02:25

total never-trumper and total Trump's like a

1:02:27

infant, and it worked for her. She

1:02:29

was like the only senator, well this

1:02:32

cycle, a couple happened, but before, you

1:02:34

know, during the first Trump, she was

1:02:36

the only senator that won and went

1:02:38

the opposite way is the state, you

1:02:40

know, in 2016 and 2020. Yeah, you're

1:02:43

saying that I wasted my dollars on

1:02:45

Sarah Gideon. No, I think that was

1:02:47

going to win by Ted. That was

1:02:49

a worthwhile use of dollars for Sarah

1:02:51

Gideon. You might, I don't know if

1:02:53

you gave any money to Jamie Harrison

1:02:56

or, that might have been a ways.

1:02:58

loves politics, but isn't in the day-to-day

1:03:00

insanity. She'll send me like a New

1:03:02

York Times article the day after and

1:03:04

she'll be like, can you believe this?

1:03:06

And I'm like, I need to talk

1:03:09

to you about how fast the news

1:03:11

cycle goes, but she'll regularly send me

1:03:13

a link to various Democrats and she

1:03:15

goes worth my money. I'm like, well,

1:03:17

how much money? Like if you want

1:03:19

to be spreading $10 all over the

1:03:22

place, go ahead for it, but Amy

1:03:24

McGrath. Okay, thank you so much for

1:03:26

being here. That's it for this episode.

1:03:28

Thank you for joining us, Tim, and

1:03:30

the Raging Moderates crew. Our producers are

1:03:33

David Toledo and Chinna Onikai. Our technical

1:03:35

director is Drew Burrows. You can now

1:03:37

find Raging Moderates on its own feed

1:03:39

every Tuesday. That's right, its own feed.

1:03:41

There get exclusive interviews

1:03:43

with smart voices

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and politics voices and politics like

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our Pat Ryan. Follow

1:03:50

us wherever you

1:03:52

get your us Also your

1:03:54

Tim Also, follow all

1:03:56

of Bullwork world. Thank you you

1:03:59

for being with

1:04:01

us. Well, just me,

1:04:03

Scott's not here,

1:04:05

but he loves you

1:04:07

from afar. you loved

1:04:09

it. Good to

1:04:12

be here. We'll do

1:04:14

that again soon. be

1:04:16

doing it again soon. Peace.