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copyright copyright. copyright 2025. everyone

1:18

and welcome to another bonus

1:21

episode of Regarding Dracula.

1:23

Today we are talking with the world's

1:25

greatest author Chuck Tingle who

1:27

has written some really incredible horror

1:30

and erotica books and I'm super

1:32

excited to dive in. Chuck do you

1:34

want to introduce yourself and talk

1:36

a little bit about your work? Yes,

1:39

hello, I am Chuck Tingle.

1:41

I am the writer of

1:43

traditionally published queer horror novels.

1:45

So far, that would be,

1:48

as far as the traditionally

1:50

published ones, Camp Damascus, Barrier

1:52

Gaze, and now Lucky Day

1:54

coming out this summer. And

1:57

then many, many self-published erotica

1:59

shorts featuring... anything from unicorns

2:01

to dinosaurs to big

2:03

feet to living objects

2:05

or the physical manifestation

2:08

of ideas. So I

2:10

would say a broad range.

2:12

I would agree. I think your

2:14

writing output is massive and

2:16

I would love to know

2:18

what inspires you creatively and

2:21

like what gives you the

2:23

spark to just keep writing.

2:25

Oh, you know, it sounds

2:27

very... unromantic, although I think

2:29

that it is Personally, it's

2:32

romantic to me. It is kind of

2:34

utilitarian in the sense that I just

2:36

kind of write in the sense that

2:38

birds fly and shark swim. You know,

2:40

there's this comment. A lot of artists,

2:43

you know, the big kind of divide

2:45

is do you create art for yourself

2:47

or for your audience? And there's kind

2:49

of no right or wrong answer to

2:52

that. And I think that I have

2:54

stumbled upon some strange third thing, which

2:56

is I just kind of do it.

2:58

It's like eating or breathing. it's the

3:01

natural state of my body to create

3:03

things. And some might think, oh, Chuck,

3:05

that takes away all the romance and

3:07

the drama. And I actually just, I

3:10

find it kind of powerful. I think

3:12

it's, I think there's a lot of

3:14

power in coming at things from a

3:17

unique way like that. when you sit

3:19

down to write do you like have an

3:21

idea going in or do you sit down

3:23

to write and an idea sort of blooms

3:25

from that like how's the order? Oh you

3:28

know it depends on you know like

3:30

I said at the beginning I have

3:32

my my queer horror novels and my

3:35

self-published erotica and both of those have

3:37

a different process I would say it

3:39

starts I have what I call my

3:41

morning trot, which is about an hour

3:44

walk. It's like a hike up into

3:46

the up into the hills of Los

3:48

Angeles. And that's where I think of

3:50

a lot of ideas. And you know,

3:53

I have like my notes app on

3:55

my phone. So especially for erotica, I

3:57

will generally have like, if I

3:59

hear something or think of a

4:02

concept. I just have like the

4:04

pages and pages of erotica, tingler

4:06

ideas. But if I set out

4:08

to write a horror novel, that

4:11

process is similar in that I

4:13

do it on the morning walk,

4:15

but I like to think of

4:17

kind of concepts which someone called

4:19

high concept which is basically like

4:22

a pretty simple almost a punchline

4:24

of a concept sometimes using irony

4:26

that is like a one sentence

4:28

pitch in film they use this

4:30

to talk about things that could

4:33

get sold on idea alone not

4:35

just the actor or the director

4:37

a great example is something like

4:39

liar liar which is a very

4:42

silly thing to reference all these

4:44

years later but But that is

4:46

high concept in the sense of

4:48

it's a lawyer who cannot lie.

4:50

That is kind of like the

4:53

epitome of it. There's this irony,

4:55

there's this thing. And so I

4:57

have a bunch of kind of

4:59

high concept things rolling around. I

5:01

think, oh, that's kind of a fun,

5:04

interesting hook. But that's not enough for

5:06

me. I like to write with meaning

5:08

first, not necessarily plot or character, but

5:11

what is my gift to the reader?

5:13

What am I trying to say? What's

5:15

the point of all this? Generally, that's

5:18

a pretty emotional thing. So something that's

5:20

moving me at the moment, something in

5:22

the news, something, you know, like that,

5:25

and then that will bubble up inside

5:27

of me. And if I really feel

5:29

big feelings about something that I want

5:31

to say, Eventually, my big

5:34

feelings of a message and what I

5:36

care about and what I want to

5:38

say will tumble around in my head

5:40

and crash into one of those high

5:42

concept ideas and I'll realize, oh, this

5:44

idea is a really good vehicle for

5:47

that point. And that is when I

5:49

think, okay, now I've got something. And

5:51

then I start to kind of figure

5:53

out what that novel is going to

5:55

be. And all of my horror novels

5:58

have been developed in that specific way.

6:00

That's a super cool process. Yes,

6:02

yeah, well, you know, it is so

6:04

mental. It's funny because I am a

6:07

I am a big plotter in it's

6:09

funny terms, but in writing people say

6:11

pants are or plotter. Pants are meaning

6:13

you fly by the seat of your

6:16

pants. plotter means you plot things and

6:18

I am very strongly plot but I

6:20

do it all in my in my

6:23

head I don't really write down the

6:25

plot so if I'm taking these morning

6:27

walks and I come up with this

6:29

novel idea that I want to do

6:32

basically I start telling myself the story

6:34

during my walks and I would say

6:36

after a few weeks of that as

6:39

it evolves eventually out like when I

6:41

know it's time to write it is

6:43

when I could sit down like a

6:46

dinner table across from you and tell

6:48

you the story from beginning to end.

6:50

Just kind of recite it like campfire

6:52

style. And at that point, then I

6:54

know that it's time to sit down

6:56

and write it. But I do all

6:59

that in my head actually. You're

7:01

kind of like a secret plotter.

7:03

Yes. I don't want anyone to steal

7:05

my notes. The safest place is to

7:07

not write them down at all. Especially

7:10

in the Asia AI, it's true. Yes. Do

7:12

you have... like one favorite story

7:14

that you've written or a piece

7:17

that you're really proud of? I

7:19

would say it is only fair to

7:21

divide those between my erotica and my

7:23

and my horror novels. I think as

7:26

far as erotica goes, I really like

7:28

there's a, you know, my tinglers are

7:30

I think they're all political, you know,

7:33

a lot of buckers see them and

7:35

think that I'm kind of joking and

7:37

things and I am very sincere about

7:39

it. It's okay to laugh at them

7:42

or with them rather, you know, whatever

7:44

you want to do, that's the beauty

7:46

of art, anyone can react. But personally,

7:49

when I trot into them, you know,

7:51

it is a sincere expression and I

7:53

think a lot of buckers don't realize

7:55

how political it is in the statement

7:58

that I'm trying to make about, you

8:00

know, queerness about acceptance. There was

8:02

many years ago, conservatives used to

8:04

say, oh, we don't want gay

8:06

marriage because what's next? Someone's gonna

8:08

marry two unicorns and Bigfoot. And

8:11

my thought was always, what would

8:13

be wrong with that? That sounds

8:15

like paradise. What a wonderful. So

8:17

the conservative like hell is basically

8:19

what the tingle versus supposed to

8:21

be revealing that actually that is

8:24

not a dystopian at all. It's

8:26

a it's a utopia and you

8:28

know some of them are more

8:30

directly political where I'm there's a

8:32

news item of the day and

8:34

then I'm just saying okay let's

8:37

what's my take on that and

8:39

some of them are more existential

8:41

and my favorite things to write.

8:43

are the existential ones. And I

8:45

think the first, the major existential

8:47

ones was something called Reamed by

8:50

my reaction to the title of

8:52

this book, which I have always

8:54

loved just the idea of physically

8:56

manifesting the reader into a story

8:58

and having the love interest be

9:00

their reaction to the story. And

9:03

so that was like the first

9:05

big existential one. So it will

9:07

always hold a big place in

9:09

my heart. And then as far

9:11

as my horror novels, I am

9:13

fortunate enough that every time I

9:16

put out a new book, I

9:18

always think it's the best thing

9:20

I've ever written. So Lucky Day

9:22

is the new one. And I

9:24

like just the cover was announced

9:26

today. It's beautiful. And so that

9:29

one, I just, every time it

9:31

comes out, I think, how am

9:33

I going to top this? I

9:35

can't write anything better than this.

9:37

So that's a very good feeling

9:39

to have, because I know that

9:42

the next book that comes out,

9:44

I'll think the same thing. Speaking

9:46

of, like, we just talked a

9:48

little bit about your tinglers, you're

9:50

known for taking what people might

9:52

see as extremely silly premises, extremely

9:55

seriously, and as you just said,

9:57

sincerely. Yes. What's your process for

9:59

world building? Like, for something, say,

10:01

Harriet Porber? or literally anything else

10:03

where you have living objects? Yes.

10:05

Well, I think honestly, there's a

10:08

few things. One is that is,

10:10

that's kind of my natural state.

10:12

I am autistic. I talk about

10:14

that a lot. And a lot

10:16

of, I think, you know, that's

10:18

not a monolith. It's, it is

10:21

a spectrum. And that's why it's

10:23

called the autism spectrum, but. for

10:25

me specifically a lot of the

10:27

ways that that manifests is in

10:29

that there's a lot of things

10:31

that I think others think are

10:34

outrageous that really don't phase me

10:36

I'm I'm pretty much not phased

10:38

by anything especially when it comes

10:40

to art I just kind of

10:42

let it rip so I think

10:44

that a lot of the ideas

10:47

that I come up with I

10:49

think like I guess the emotion

10:51

I would describe is when I

10:53

think of something like a thing.

10:55

And so that's, those are the

10:57

kinds of ideas that I hunt

11:00

down. And I think that's cute.

11:02

I think cute is the right

11:04

term or like joyful. Like there's

11:06

a certain whimsy to it where

11:08

there's a hint of humor. But

11:10

to me, it's just more like,

11:13

oh, what a, what a, like,

11:15

sweet thing. And so that's, those

11:17

are the kinds of ideas that

11:19

I hunt down. And I think

11:21

that what, what, what has, you

11:23

know, where the autism comes in

11:26

is like, like, like, like, I

11:28

really once I have the premise

11:30

I take it really you could

11:32

see seriously but I would say

11:34

logically or scientifically and so I

11:36

think that that makes for a

11:39

lot of good world building because

11:41

the secret to world building is

11:43

just extrapolating on the things that

11:45

you've done I think a lot

11:47

of maybe even more neurotypical writers

11:49

might come up with a fantastical

11:52

present or presence. But I'm not

11:54

even used that word right, a

11:56

fantastical premise. Oh my gosh, I

11:58

need to get, I need to

12:00

get more sleep. That was the

12:02

third try on a very simple

12:05

word. But they think of something

12:07

like that. and they kind of

12:09

take it there and then they

12:11

say, and the rest is magic.

12:13

And because I have such a

12:15

scientific and like logic striving brain

12:18

through my autism, I can't do

12:20

that. So I have these very

12:22

kind of fantastical premises and then

12:24

the rest of my brain kicks

12:26

in and thinks, well, Well, how

12:28

does that work? And then once

12:31

you start chasing that rabbit hole,

12:33

you'll you'll create a world like

12:35

in Harriet Pobery, you know, that's

12:37

how the world building happens. I

12:39

love the idea of applying science

12:41

to whimsy. Yes. I think all

12:44

my horror novels function in that

12:46

way too. I have realized very

12:48

recently that, um, horror is you

12:50

know in the broad idea of

12:52

speculative fiction or however you want

12:54

to say but horror science fiction

12:57

and fantasy always kind of trot

12:59

together and I think that within

13:01

a horror you can kind of

13:03

be you know horror fantasy or

13:05

horror science fiction and the difference

13:07

if we want to get into

13:10

art analysis that I would draw

13:12

there is is is what your

13:14

creating or the thing an unexplainable

13:16

mystery like a ghost or something

13:18

that you never really delve into

13:20

why that's happening. It's just magic.

13:23

That would be like a horror

13:25

fantasy. And I think most horror

13:27

falls into that category. You don't

13:29

really need to explain, you know,

13:31

why the where wolf is the

13:33

way it is or why the

13:36

vampire is the way that it

13:38

is. My interest and I think

13:40

my perspective that I just laid

13:42

out. affects my horror writing because

13:44

all of it ends up kind

13:46

of being horror sci-fi because I

13:49

always explain what's going on even

13:51

if it's a sort of speculative

13:53

explanation I'm at least trying to

13:55

pull apart like how does this

13:57

fit into the real world it's

13:59

almost the twist that always comes

14:02

in my books and to me

14:04

it's just logical but everyone you

14:06

know especially is something like camp

14:08

Damascus my first book is about

14:10

demons but you halfway through that

14:12

it's kind of explaining the demons

14:15

as animals as just another species

14:17

and it's like science explanation for

14:19

them. So I think that has

14:21

been this style for me that

14:23

has accidentally developed if that makes

14:25

sense. I think it makes perfect

14:28

sense. Are there other ways where?

14:30

erotica and horror intersect for you?

14:32

Oh yes, absolutely. I see erotica

14:34

horror and comedy actually is all

14:36

the same thing. I call them

14:38

the malign Trinity of genre, but

14:41

they are, they are seeking reactions

14:43

of the body. They're almost like

14:45

genres with side missions where, you

14:47

know, comedy, you have laughter, erotical,

14:49

you have arousal and horror you

14:51

have fear. So along with sort

14:54

of the three act structure or

14:56

whatever, however many beats of your

14:58

story, depending on who a method

15:00

you're going with, you also have

15:02

to be striking these points. You

15:04

have to be making people aroused.

15:07

You have to be getting laughs.

15:09

And that kind of makes it

15:11

harder to write, although I also

15:13

think it makes it a little

15:15

easier that technically you have two

15:17

missions like you can have a

15:20

comedy that the story is not

15:22

very good and if everyone laughs

15:24

then it's a classic same with

15:26

erotica or horror I try to

15:28

do both but I really love

15:30

dabbling in these genres because you

15:33

know I think there's this sort

15:35

of historical puritanical idea that our

15:37

body is bad that it is

15:39

wrong. You see this with a

15:41

lot of religious subtext is that

15:43

we have to disobey the cravings

15:46

of our body and that's the

15:48

only way to be divine kind

15:50

of. And I reject that and

15:52

I reject that as an intellectual

15:54

idea as well that only art

15:56

that is kind of of of

15:59

the mind, so to speak, is

16:01

good art. I do not see

16:03

the distinction between high and low

16:05

brow, and I think the best

16:07

art is a little bit of

16:09

both. And so that kind of

16:12

falls into that category as well.

16:14

I feel like... Like, this also

16:16

comes across in the queer themes

16:18

of your writing, especially today it

16:20

feels like certain governments are telling

16:22

queer people, women, what to do

16:25

with their body, and how they

16:27

should feel about it. Oh, absolutely.

16:29

Yes, yes, it is a government

16:31

thing. I mean, once you realize

16:33

that the oppression of a kind

16:35

of like creativity but also bodies

16:38

women's bodies you know queer bodies

16:40

it's all the same thing it

16:42

is there is it's in religion

16:44

it's in government it's everywhere it's

16:46

in it's even in like art

16:48

critique where we are saying no

16:51

it can't be your primal brain

16:53

and I this is big quotes

16:55

because I don't even really think

16:57

it's the vibe that way but

16:59

it's sort of like the intelligenceia

17:01

or the the smart the intellectuals

17:04

the the powers that be will

17:06

always try to say that art

17:08

of the body is wrong and

17:10

that your body is wrong honestly

17:12

and so I am very proud

17:14

to everywhere that I can reject

17:17

that and say no I'm writing

17:19

erotica and I I want it

17:21

to be and it is serious

17:23

you know it may be funny

17:25

sometimes but it is sincere yes

17:27

I'm writing queer horror but it

17:30

is sincere and it's honestly taken

17:32

me a decade before people will

17:34

even accept that because they really

17:36

subconsciously or not liberal or conservative,

17:38

whatever, it is really hard for

17:40

Bucharest to untether that that thing

17:43

that has been oppressing them so

17:45

long that these quote low brow

17:47

bodily art forms are, you know,

17:49

are bad and not worthy of

17:51

critique or time. Yeah. And you

17:53

just mentioned sort of being proud

17:56

of yourself for including that in

17:58

the writing. And I think as

18:00

a whole, the queer community should

18:02

also be profitable. of you. I

18:04

think your writing is inspirational for

18:06

that and many other reasons. Oh,

18:09

that's so sweet. Thank you. Very

18:11

kind. It's taken 10 years or

18:13

so for people to kind of

18:15

come around on that. But I

18:17

think like the work you do

18:19

and the work of other queer

18:22

artists is so integral for existing

18:24

as queer people for telling the

18:26

government to fuck off for lack

18:28

of a better word. Yes. No,

18:30

I agree. It's, it is, I

18:32

think for any marginalized group, there

18:35

is a sort of thing, there

18:37

is a focus on like praxis

18:39

and, and what is actually, you

18:41

know, what is actually doing the

18:43

work, a sort of like an

18:45

anti-slactivist sort of thing, which I

18:48

understand and I appreciate and that

18:50

it is a discussion worth having,

18:52

but what I, I get afraid

18:54

sometimes, and the reason why I

18:56

personally try not to gate keep

18:58

people's protest or their method of

19:01

resistance. I think that they're all

19:03

fine. I don't really even believe

19:05

in slaptivism. I don't think it's

19:07

a real thing. I think anything

19:09

helps. And the reason for that

19:11

is because we don't really know

19:14

how much our art or these

19:16

things or a little post or

19:18

whatever a little thing can do

19:20

is actually. building into something else.

19:22

We just cannot know. And I

19:24

think that one of the biggest

19:27

changes for anything to get more,

19:29

you know, more rights or anything

19:31

that happens when the culture changes.

19:33

It's not necessarily like a law

19:35

that gets passed or something else.

19:37

It's the cultural consciousness through these

19:40

small things like supporting art, supporting

19:42

queer art. That is actually what

19:44

what makes these big changes. And

19:46

it kind of seems like nothing

19:48

at the time. They say, oh,

19:50

you wrote a song. Okay, well,

19:53

you know, did you donate $10,000

19:55

to this cause or whatever? And

19:57

I just would caution Bucharest to

19:59

think, you know, both those are.

20:01

important and changing the culture itself

20:04

has a lot of power. Do

20:06

you have any advice for queer

20:08

buccaroos in this day and age?

20:10

Yes, I mean, okay, I mean,

20:12

what my advice would be. has

20:14

severely changed in the past week.

20:17

It's, you know, I mean, yes,

20:19

I mean, you know, and the

20:21

other thing is too, it's like,

20:23

it has changed and at the

20:25

same time, it's not like, you

20:27

know, the previous administration was exactly

20:30

doing everything that they could. So

20:32

I will say that I honestly

20:34

think, summing it up in just

20:36

one kind of pithy piece of

20:38

advice. is not necessarily the way

20:40

to do it, but in that

20:43

I kind of have a pithy

20:45

piece of advice, which is to

20:47

understand the broadness of what moving

20:49

forward on this timeline is going

20:51

to take and to not look

20:53

for any one piece of advice,

20:56

I guess other than to not

20:58

look for one piece of advice.

21:00

I honestly think it is like

21:02

a it is a cultural thing.

21:04

There are issues of safety kind

21:06

of depending on what state you

21:09

live in. It is so complex

21:11

that really what it's about is

21:13

like finding the resources that you

21:15

can. doing what you can to

21:17

resist. And, you know, I guess,

21:19

ultimately, another thing as I'm saying

21:22

that is, like, I think the

21:24

less gatekeeping of that we can

21:26

do the better. And that includes

21:28

internal gatekeeping. Like, don't gate keep

21:30

yourself. If you think, oh, I

21:32

want to help in this way,

21:35

but, you know, I don't know,

21:37

I'm scared or these things or,

21:39

or will anyone like my art?

21:41

Because I want to talk about

21:43

this thing. just don't gate keep

21:45

yourself and if other people are

21:48

coming at it from an angle

21:50

that seems kind of oh what

21:52

is this you know let let

21:54

them explore that. I think honestly

21:56

it's going to be a team

21:58

effort with a broad variety of

22:01

approaches. I'm going to switch to

22:03

lighter topics now. I feel like

22:05

we hit all the heavy stuff

22:07

right out of the gate. I'm

22:09

always I love going deep. This

22:11

is just great. Yeah now this

22:14

is a this is my favorite

22:16

kind of drop. Excellent. So completely

22:18

off topic to what we were

22:20

just talking about. What's your favorite

22:22

horror movie? If like if there's

22:24

one favorite. Oh wow, you know,

22:27

it's interesting. My answer for this

22:29

is very boring, but it is,

22:31

it's just true. I'm not gonna

22:33

lie and look and make something

22:35

up. I watch, like if there's

22:37

a horror movie coming out, I'm

22:40

watching it. I'm going to see

22:42

it. Most of my writing, I

22:44

read very little, which you're not

22:46

supposed to admit, but I don't

22:48

care because that's just the way

22:50

I try. I watch so many

22:53

movies, especially horror films, and a

22:55

lot of my books are plotted

22:57

after film. So I really, you

22:59

know, I love film. And yet

23:01

my answer for favorite horror movie

23:03

is honestly probably scream, the first

23:06

scream. I know it's, you know.

23:08

It's very middle of the road,

23:10

I think, but I love it

23:12

and I think it's culturally very

23:14

important. Most of all, it's just

23:16

kind of personal to me because

23:19

of like when I saw it,

23:21

the memories of it, the way

23:23

it affected me, I just, it's

23:25

definitely my number one. I think

23:27

that's a fine answer. Thank you.

23:29

Every time so, I feel like

23:32

I need to like defend it

23:34

so much, but you know, I

23:36

just, I, that's the one. I'm

23:38

the exact opposite of you where

23:40

I read a lot but I

23:42

watched very few movies. Honestly that's

23:45

probably better maybe for for your

23:47

brain. I think there's something good

23:49

about going through the words on

23:51

the page. I I wish that

23:53

I read more but I just

23:55

you know I actually funny enough

23:58

I do think it is part

24:00

of my autism is, you know,

24:02

there are some, obviously, some autistic

24:04

people that just devour books. But

24:06

for me, what happens is if I'm

24:08

reading a book, my brain starts

24:11

to move on to other things

24:13

like a sentence will have an

24:15

interesting rhythm and it'll just start

24:17

repeating. And I'll get four pages

24:19

past and think, I did not

24:21

hear. or like mentally here or connect

24:23

with or understand a single word for

24:26

the last four pages and then I

24:28

have to go back and it takes

24:30

me forever so audio books have been

24:32

really Really good for me. I read

24:35

I read those way more. I love

24:37

my Libby app and then I read

24:39

a lot more now that I am

24:42

in Publishing especially traditional publishing because I

24:44

do blurbs for my my buds So

24:46

if there's like an author I know

24:48

I'll read their book. So I read

24:51

way more now than I ever have

24:53

in my life. I'm also a big fan

24:55

of the Libby app. Oh, it's

24:57

great promo for the Libby app

24:59

this episode's not sponsored I will

25:02

say you can list like as

25:04

a young buckery the books that

25:06

I read in my young life

25:08

probably like I don't know five

25:10

to ten not many I just

25:12

did not read one of them

25:14

Dracula that is one of the

25:16

books that I that I did

25:18

read who was your favorite character

25:21

in Dracula oh my gosh

25:23

I honestly can't even here's

25:25

the other thing I can't

25:27

remember it I barely remember it

25:29

I mean, much like my scream

25:32

answer, I feel like, I mean,

25:34

the, the buckaroo himself is

25:36

probably, probably the one. Look, I

25:38

barely even, I read it. This

25:41

is what I'm talking about. I

25:43

probably read the first paragraph and

25:45

then zoned out. One thing I

25:48

do remember, I do remember like

25:50

loving it, like being like this,

25:52

like, I was like, I loved

25:55

it, which is especially for, you

25:57

know, I'm always, this is, like,

26:00

I guess a little bit ignorant

26:02

of me, but whenever I read

26:04

like an like an old book

26:06

like one of the classics and

26:08

it captivates me with the pace

26:10

and the timing and the tone

26:12

like a modern book I was

26:14

blown away by that first I'm

26:16

just like wow they really they

26:18

got the story beats down as

26:20

if as if those didn't exist

26:22

back then but I remember reading

26:24

Dracula and thinking wow okay I

26:26

get it this is a Yeah,

26:28

wow, we got a lot of

26:30

action in here. I'm always like a

26:32

little annoyed when I read a classic

26:34

book and it's really good. So I'm

26:37

like, oh, it's a classic for a

26:39

reason, I guess. Okay, English teachers,

26:41

you were right. Yes. No, I

26:43

get that. Some of them too

26:46

you read and you think, okay.

26:48

There is another reason than pure

26:50

reading enjoyment that this became the

26:53

cultural touchstone that it is. That

26:55

does happen every once in a

26:57

while too. But Dracula, I've personally

26:59

not one of those books for

27:02

me. I think it is really

27:04

like there's something there.

27:06

If you were in Jonathan

27:08

Harker situation, trapped in a

27:11

castle with Dracula and

27:13

three beautiful, mysterious,

27:15

Are you getting out of that

27:17

castle alive? What do you

27:19

think like the situation you

27:22

would end up in would be?

27:24

Oh my gosh. You have

27:26

just tapped into my innate

27:28

bisexuality by describing just sort

27:31

of a sort of a

27:33

reality show style trapped

27:35

in a castle with

27:37

a handsome buckaroo and

27:39

three beautiful women. You

27:41

know, honestly... I am a

27:43

bit of a home body. I'd be

27:46

trying to get out of there. I

27:48

would be, I don't even, honestly, I

27:50

wouldn't even get in the, I'd see

27:52

the cast side go, you know what?

27:55

I used to be, like, I

27:57

would, I think night number one,

27:59

it'd be like late. everybody would be

28:01

going to bed and I'd be thinking, yeah, you

28:03

know, I'm kind of homesick. I'm going to like,

28:05

I'll leave a note and I'm going to go

28:07

home, I'm going to sleep in my own bed.

28:09

That's an introverted mood right there. Yeah, it's funny

28:11

because I'm really not introverted, but when it comes

28:13

to like the we hours of the morning, I

28:15

just, I have that thing where I think, it'd

28:17

be pretty nice to be in my own bed.

28:19

Okay, we're switching topics again. I love it. Jump

28:21

around. All over the place. What advice would you

28:24

give to aspiring writers? Everyone is supposed to do

28:26

in writing classes. They tell you like, do you

28:28

lead with, like who's in the driver's seat? Is

28:30

it your character or is it the plot? And

28:32

you're, you're, you're actually, you're supposed to say character

28:34

in modern writing. That's what your English teacher is

28:36

going to give you an A plus four. I

28:38

say neither. I lead with the idea, the reason

28:40

I talk about this a lot. interviews is because

28:42

you're not supposed to say that. It's not cool.

28:44

It's not intellectual. You're just, we've been told not

28:46

to do that in every writing class. And I

28:48

just want Buckers to know that like there is

28:50

no correct path, not just for writing, but for

28:52

creation. And if you look at my career, especially.

28:55

There's like three or four things like that, including

28:57

the way that I got my traditional publishing deal,

28:59

which are just kind of your English teacher would

29:01

tell you as dead wrong. And I'm pretty dang

29:03

successful. So I would say, you know, if you're

29:05

looking at the trail, if you want to trot

29:07

up the path that is well-worn, that most buccaroos

29:09

go winding up the hill, that's okay. There's a

29:11

reason why it's so well worn, and there's a

29:13

lot of good advice there. But if you look

29:15

up that hill and you see the underbrush.

29:17

There's this this trail. It's

29:19

not even a deer

29:21

trail. It's just you think

29:23

I'm going to go

29:25

that way through the weeds.

29:28

Do it because you

29:30

only live once. And the

29:32

idea that that's not

29:34

going to be successful, I

29:36

think is crouched in

29:38

the idea that honestly, if

29:40

you want a career

29:42

as an artist, you're you're

29:44

fighting an uphill battle

29:46

anyway. If you think, wow,

29:48

I'm I'll never I'll

29:50

never make a living doing

29:52

that. You know, you

29:54

probably might not make a

29:56

living doing it the

29:58

traditional way, either. It's very

30:01

hard to be an

30:03

artist. So you might as

30:05

well do it the

30:07

way that that feels right

30:09

to you, that touches

30:11

your soul, that proves love

30:13

to you. Because here's

30:15

the thing, if that way

30:17

works, then you're never

30:19

going to feel like you

30:21

work a day in

30:23

your life. You're just going

30:25

to create. You're going

30:27

to change things. You're going

30:29

to literally move this

30:31

timeline in a direction in

30:34

a very broad way

30:36

because you set out in

30:38

that past. So you

30:40

might as well do it.

30:42

Is there a story

30:44

behind Buckaroo as sort of

30:46

just like a catch

30:48

all term for people? Because

30:50

I love that and

30:52

it's made its way into

30:54

my own vernacular. And

30:56

I would love to know,

30:58

like, is there a

31:00

story or did it just

31:02

kind of like happen

31:05

that, you know, that's very

31:07

interesting. There is so

31:09

much like when I first

31:11

started posting and writing

31:13

my books, I I've always

31:15

been interested in the

31:17

art being more than just

31:19

kind of the text

31:21

on the page or the

31:23

or the music in

31:25

the in the record or

31:27

the the film and

31:29

the camera. Like, I think

31:31

it is everything. It

31:33

is a mixed media project

31:35

between a creator and

31:38

an audience. And the actual

31:40

physical art to me

31:42

is a very small part

31:44

of that, maybe like

31:46

a third. Everything else is

31:48

where the real art

31:50

lies. And so when I

31:52

started to post online

31:54

and trade this, there were

31:56

a lot of ideas

31:58

that I had some to

32:00

hide my privacy, a

32:02

lot of them to to

32:04

keep me anonymous, but

32:06

a lot of them. were kind

32:08

of metaphors for something that meant a lot to

32:11

me. So it gave me a chance to talk

32:13

about these big feelings in a metaphorical way. The

32:15

example I use is that if I posted on

32:17

Twitter at the time that I pet a cat

32:19

today, maybe I pet a dog, but it is

32:21

like still, you know, this is a very honest

32:23

real expression of who I am and sometimes it's

32:25

very strongly metaphorical. When it comes to the language

32:27

of buckaroos, what's really funny is that that was

32:29

Not a conscious choice at all,

32:31

but I think like most art

32:34

sometimes the art knows before you

32:36

do there are things that I

32:38

created as metaphors or different names

32:41

for people or things that privately,

32:43

I can say over the years,

32:45

I've realized five years later, oh,

32:48

I called it that because of

32:50

this, and I didn't know it,

32:52

or something that hasn't even happened

32:54

yet, which gets a little spiritual,

32:57

but there will be things that

32:59

I didn't know that then came

33:01

out in the art. And I

33:03

thought, oh, well, I mean that

33:06

that five years ago, you know,

33:08

it's a very powerful thing. Buckaroos

33:10

was not one of, you know,

33:12

it just kind of was, I

33:14

do actually, use that word quite

33:16

a bit in my my daily

33:18

life, actually. But what I like

33:20

about it is that because I

33:23

focus so much and care so

33:25

much about like gender and gender

33:27

expression and the freedom of gender

33:29

expression, trans issues, I love that

33:31

it's a non-binary term. That's actually,

33:34

I did not think of that. at

33:36

all. And it's kind of one of

33:38

those things where it's like the arts,

33:40

I think, knows before I do. And

33:43

so it just kind of, it worked

33:45

out really well. You touched on

33:47

this a little bit in the

33:50

previous question. I'd love to know

33:52

if having a level of anonymity

33:54

and writing under a pseudonym makes

33:57

creating easier and if so how. Yes, I

33:59

mean, yeah. Originally that's why I wanted

34:01

to do this. Well, there's a

34:03

couple reasons. One is I am

34:05

I am known a little bit,

34:07

maybe a lot, who knows? But

34:09

I'm known enough. that there are

34:11

buckaroos who would know who you

34:14

know I've I have been a

34:16

creative my my whole life I've

34:18

never had like a traditional job

34:20

so from a young age I've

34:22

had a career in art I

34:24

guess is what I will say

34:26

what art form I I try

34:28

to keep vague and all and

34:30

all that but it's enough that other

34:32

folks would could know me from that.

34:34

And so I knew I wanted this

34:36

to kind of be like a separate

34:38

expression a lot because I find symbolism

34:41

to be very powerful. And it really

34:43

is. You know, Bucharest will come up

34:45

to me at live events and they'll

34:47

whisper something in my ear and then

34:49

they'll say, I've never told any other

34:51

living person that, you know, and we'll

34:53

have a good cry and stuff. And

34:55

the reason they feel like they can

34:57

do that is is because... you know,

35:00

I'm wearing a mask. It's similar to,

35:02

you know, in therapy sometimes, Bucharest will

35:04

use like two puppets talking to each

35:06

other to kind of like say how

35:09

they really feel. And I believe it's

35:11

Oscar Wild who said, if you want

35:13

a man to speak the truth, give

35:16

him a mask. So there is a

35:18

power there that I really wanted to

35:20

tap into and then also funny enough,

35:23

you know, I by autism even though

35:25

I was diagnosed in kind of my

35:27

early 20s not something that I talk

35:30

about very often and I'm also

35:32

very neuro typically passing. If for

35:34

when I am ever revealed, I

35:36

know there will be some probably

35:38

non-autistic buckers who will see me

35:40

and say things like, oh, well,

35:42

he doesn't look autistic, which, you

35:45

know, any autistic buckers know that

35:47

one. And so, you know, I

35:49

think that there was that because

35:51

I just didn't talk about my

35:53

autism that much, and this is

35:55

a way for me to explore.

35:57

And as a bisexual, too, in

35:59

a heterous. presenting relationship, I don't

36:01

talk about my sexuality. I was

36:04

not necessarily out because I was

36:06

closeted. I just was not out

36:08

because I never had to talk

36:10

about it. You know, it's like

36:12

I just wasn't really a part

36:14

of my life. So. being anonymous

36:17

was a great way for me

36:19

to explore those things. I mean,

36:21

also, you know, I consider myself

36:24

non-disphoric trans and that's another one

36:26

was there are all these things

36:28

where like everything about me looks

36:31

like a sort of cis hetero

36:33

neurotypical buckaroo. And so. I don't

36:35

know, having that space to be

36:38

open about that was very good

36:40

for my health. I would say

36:42

it saved my life. And yeah,

36:44

so being anonymous in that way

36:47

was helpful. And then to wrap

36:49

it up, the very obvious thing

36:51

that most folks don't think about

36:53

is, you know, because I'm so

36:55

political and, you know, mega buckeroos

36:58

send me death threats every, I

37:00

get death threats all the dang

37:02

time. So the fact that no,

37:04

like Trump supporters can. can find

37:06

my address and like swap me

37:09

or things like that. Pretty helpful.

37:11

I believe that. As someone

37:13

that was targeted by good

37:15

old Ben Shapiro a couple

37:17

years ago, I feel that really

37:20

hard. Yes. Oh my gosh. Well, I

37:22

am so sorry. I have other creator.

37:24

The amount of times that my creator

37:26

buds who have a large audience will

37:29

say Gosh, I wish I would have

37:31

worn a mask from the start like

37:33

you did. A lot of my buds

37:35

who get targeted in situations like that

37:38

will come to me for advice. And

37:40

I always say, listen, you have to

37:42

take my advice really with a grain

37:45

of salt and I'm going to try

37:47

to be empathetic, but I don't feel,

37:49

I don't feel that like it,

37:51

there's been plenty of times where

37:53

some big account or something has

37:56

sent everyone after and like I

37:58

get all these death threats. me because

38:00

the symbol of me takes

38:02

all of it. It's like

38:05

this armor where it's like

38:07

if I have a thousand

38:09

comments in a day from

38:11

these mega basement dwellers literally

38:14

I don't even think about

38:16

it and my other friends

38:18

who are writers or authors

38:21

or musicians who have these

38:23

these things like big audiences.

38:25

They'll talk to me. We'll

38:27

go lunch and they'll say,

38:30

I can't think. This is

38:32

really ruining my day because

38:34

there's all this after me. So

38:36

the mask has been really helpful in

38:38

that, actually. I'm jealous a

38:40

little bit. Well, you know, you know,

38:43

you felt it. You know, there's a,

38:45

it's a weird feeling too because it

38:47

is all online. So there's part of

38:49

you in your head that's like, why

38:51

am I, why do I care?

38:53

Like what is happening here. But

38:56

you do, like it's that disconnection

38:58

of our primal brain with our

39:00

higher brain or whatever, like you're

39:02

gonna feel it, you know? This might

39:05

be similar to the question

39:07

I just asked, maybe a

39:09

little lighter. How does it make

39:11

you feel to see your work

39:13

shared online as a meme or

39:15

like more broadly people being like,

39:17

oh look at this silly little

39:19

thing? Like how does that make you

39:21

feel as an artist? I love it.

39:23

I well, okay, I should preface this

39:25

by saying that I love all of

39:28

it, bad or good. I actually love

39:30

it and this is me. Again, I

39:32

am privileged to say this because of

39:34

my mask. I actually love it when

39:36

all the goofs come after me too.

39:39

I really do. I mean, that is,

39:41

why else am I? I'm here to

39:43

create art. And when I see

39:45

the timeline tilting on its access

39:47

because of something that I made

39:50

its access, it is delightful. The

39:52

one thing that I think bothers

39:55

me, and it's not necessarily because

39:57

it's my art, it's like a

39:59

cultural. almost. The words you use

40:02

were like, this is silly, this is

40:04

fun, this is funny. I love that.

40:06

If someone does that, it warms

40:09

my heart, it's a beautiful thing.

40:11

There is a thing culturally that

40:13

I think has really infected sort

40:15

of a generation that has been

40:18

raised in like online message boards

40:20

of irony. And not only irony

40:22

of not being able to just

40:25

like something it has to be

40:27

shrouded in a sort of like

40:29

I hate it. It has to

40:32

be like I'm sharing this because

40:34

I'm because I like oh my

40:36

gosh kill it with fire type

40:39

things or like I hate this

40:41

and it's like these are jokes

40:43

that that I get and like

40:46

sure it's it's funny in certain

40:48

context and everything but I think

40:50

with my work I start to

40:52

notice that there's kind of this

40:55

entire generation that's been a bit

40:57

irony poisoned where they can love

40:59

my books. They can have them

41:01

in in hard cover and when

41:03

they post about it online, it

41:05

is always through this sheen of

41:08

like, oh, I love this awful

41:10

right or Chuck Tingle. He's the

41:12

worst and I love him so

41:14

much. And I honestly, you know,

41:16

it's fine. I'm not here to

41:18

critique anyone in the way that

41:21

they express themselves. everyone can do

41:23

that. It's okay. But it is

41:25

the one thing that I see

41:27

and it almost just kind of

41:29

like, it makes me sad because

41:31

I think, gosh, you don't have

41:34

to do that. Like you can

41:36

be, you can be proud. There

41:38

is no so bad, it's good.

41:40

It's just good. If you like

41:42

it, it's good. And so I

41:44

wish that some buckers could tap

41:46

into that more. kind of for

41:49

their sake. I think that there's

41:51

so much vividness and color and

41:53

hue in this timeline and in

41:55

the world that you're missing out

41:57

on if you have to veil

41:59

everything enough. When I was

42:01

in, I want to say like middle or

42:03

high school, I started watching

42:05

Vlog Brothers on YouTube and

42:07

their whole thing was like, oh, we're

42:10

nerds. And they ended up defining being

42:12

a nerd as being unironically

42:14

enthusiastic about stuff. And part of

42:17

me is so glad to have

42:19

had that influence. Oh, that's beautiful.

42:21

Yes, 100%. In fact to go

42:24

back to one of your questions

42:26

about like what can we do

42:28

as as queer people or as

42:31

any like marginalized

42:33

group is like if there's

42:35

something that you love you

42:37

don't have to like you don't

42:39

have to pretend that you don't

42:41

you don't have to you know

42:43

you can be enthusiastic about

42:45

existence you know that

42:48

there is so much dark terrible

42:50

stuff happening to find the things

42:52

that move you and then hide

42:54

them? Like, you know, you don't

42:57

have to do that. This sparks

42:59

a new question I have for

43:01

you. What art moves you? Like,

43:03

is there any artists or, I

43:05

don't know, other creations of art

43:08

that you just want to share

43:10

right now? Oh gosh, everything. I

43:12

would be a terrible film critic

43:14

because every single movie that I

43:16

see, even if others don't like

43:18

it, I just... I always find

43:20

something to like about it. It's

43:23

very hard for me to not

43:25

like a piece of art. Honestly,

43:27

the only thing that kind of

43:29

that will like turn me off

43:31

and make me not like a

43:33

piece of art is if I

43:35

feel like it's not respecting my

43:37

time that I gave it. If

43:39

I feel like someone is like if

43:42

something is boring, especially for the sake

43:44

of like, well. Fuck you for an

43:46

audience like you you know you can't

43:49

you know that is that bothers

43:51

me and even sometimes when it

43:53

is like that I will still

43:55

think okay well at least it's

43:57

it's interesting like it's okay that

43:59

I mean, I don't know if

44:02

any listeners saw the film Skinnamerink,

44:04

which is like three hours and

44:06

it's very, like nothing happens. That

44:08

was my favorite movie of the

44:11

year when I loved, I just,

44:13

and that is like the opposite

44:15

of what I'm talking, you know,

44:18

so I am open to

44:20

something that tests my patience.

44:22

It's more like the feeling

44:24

of the artist not. not

44:26

caring. Yeah, you can kind

44:28

of feel it through and

44:31

so everything else I kind

44:33

of love. As far as

44:35

influences, none of them are

44:37

writers, but I can name

44:39

my five influences and I

44:41

think anyone who likes my

44:44

stuff should check them out.

44:46

I call them the two

44:48

Andes, the two Davids and

44:50

Jordan. It would be Andy

44:52

Warhol, Andy Kaufman, talking heads.

44:55

Actually, David Burns, probably my

44:57

number one. And David Lynch,

44:59

RIP, just passed. And then

45:02

Jordan Peel is like the

45:04

newest addition to that. And

45:06

between those five creators, I

45:08

think it's kind of a

45:11

pretty good summary of like

45:13

everything that I do and kind

45:15

of stand for and create. What

45:17

does it take to be the

45:19

world's greatest author? Feel free

45:22

to interpret this question however

45:24

you want. Oh, well, you already

45:26

are. Literally what it takes is

45:28

just saying it, knowing it for

45:30

yourself. It is not an external

45:33

decision that the timeline forces on

45:35

you. It is yourself. I think

45:37

everyone listening to this, if you

45:39

are a writer, heck, if you're

45:41

not a writer, you already are

45:43

the world's greatest author. I think

45:45

the reason that I say that

45:47

and that I am the world's

45:49

greatest author, is because I believe

45:51

it and because I think a

45:54

lot of folks will see

45:56

that as me being arrogant and

45:58

think, oh, Chuck. Chuck thinks he's

46:01

number one. I do think I'm

46:03

number one, but I think that

46:05

we are all number one. I

46:07

think that we are, have been

46:09

kind of crushed, especially if you

46:11

think under kind of the grinding

46:13

boots of capitalism, of this competitiveness,

46:15

that there is only one number

46:17

one metal. And I disagree with

46:19

that. That's a competition that I

46:21

didn't agree to. I think we

46:23

all get the number one medal.

46:25

We are all the world's greatest

46:27

author. I am at the top

46:29

of the mountain and there is plenty

46:31

of room at the top. There is

46:33

room for every single person listening to

46:36

this and that goes for all things.

46:38

All you have to do is say

46:40

that you are and I believe that

46:42

you are because we... define the timeline

46:44

how we want and there are obviously

46:46

things that we bump up against that

46:49

will that you know will say well

46:51

that's all well and good but I

46:53

got to pay my rent kind of

46:55

thing you know we live in these

46:57

systems and that is fine but when

46:59

it comes to art and

47:01

things like what is the

47:03

greatest art something that is

47:06

utterly nebulous and by definition

47:08

you know cannot really truly

47:10

be objectively decided, then you

47:12

know what, take the reins,

47:14

be the world's greatest artist.

47:16

I think that we all are. Ah,

47:19

that's so wholesome. Yes, I do.

47:21

I do have a wholesome streak. I

47:23

feel like we need more wholesome

47:25

streaks in today's climate. We

47:27

keep coming back this. I

47:29

feel like I need to

47:31

say for posterity that we

47:34

recorded this January 24th, and it

47:36

has been a week of... governmental

47:38

nonsense. And I know that's

47:40

coming in through the questions

47:42

I ask. Well, you know, what's

47:45

going to happen is that if

47:47

anyone jumps back to this a

47:49

year from now, they're going to

47:51

just say something like, oh, bless

47:53

their hearts. They thought they had

47:55

it rough when week one. Yeah. Oh,

47:57

they thought it was bad then. Yes.

47:59

All right. have one final

48:01

question for you, do you have

48:03

any new or just in general

48:06

releases you'd like to

48:08

promote? Yes, actually I, you

48:10

know, so is my new horror novel

48:12

and I would just like this

48:14

lucky day or if you're

48:16

interested in, you know, if

48:18

you're aware of me and you've

48:20

been listening to this and like

48:23

you're interested in what I create.

48:25

that book is coming out and

48:27

by the time this errors it

48:29

probably will not be out yet

48:32

because pre-orders take a long time

48:34

and I would just say please

48:36

take a moment to pre-order the

48:38

book I know there's a lot

48:41

of industries like video games have

48:43

big problems with people not delivering

48:45

pre-orders and things but pre-ordering books

48:47

is really effective I mean it like

48:50

literally down to book stores have amounts

48:52

of physical shelf space where they like

48:54

know how many books they can fit

48:56

and things like that and if there's

48:59

more pre-orders the likelihood that you'll be

49:01

on a shelf is how there's like

49:03

all this stuff so it really directly

49:05

directly helps authors to not

49:07

just wait until the book comes

49:10

out but to take a moment

49:12

and to pre-order it and I

49:14

feel like right now especially this

49:16

week we are looking for ways

49:19

to help we've already kind of

49:21

talked about it. And I think

49:23

that finding queer neurodivergent outsider authors,

49:25

of which I am all, but

49:27

also like counterculture authors or figures,

49:30

not just me, but anyone that

49:32

you care about like that, supporting

49:34

their art is a. is a

49:36

powerful thing to do. It's an

49:38

important thing to do. And so

49:41

I think that doing that is

49:43

a great way to do it.

49:45

And hopefully, if you like what

49:47

I have to say, you know,

49:49

consider ordering barrier gaze. I'm so

49:52

sorry. That whole diatribe was of

49:54

my new book, Lucky Day, and

49:56

I'm so used to promoting barrier

49:58

gaze. I just said. Although I

50:00

will say it really applies

50:02

to barrier gaze because barrier

50:05

gaze is like a very

50:07

strongly like anti capitalist anti

50:09

AI book like it's a

50:11

pretty far left art critique

50:14

type book and Lucky Day

50:16

is a well it's my

50:18

bisexual erasure book but it's

50:20

also kind of my a

50:22

cab book so it's like

50:24

another like very far left

50:26

I mean, I don't want

50:28

to talk about it too

50:31

much until it comes out,

50:33

but it's a very, it's

50:35

a very political book in

50:37

a similar way, but replace

50:39

capitalism with something else and

50:41

you'll see what Lucky Day is

50:43

about. So I order them both,

50:45

why not? Yeah, order Camp Damascus

50:48

too. Yeah, get the three. Give

50:50

yourself a little trilogy. They actually,

50:52

what's funny is they do reference

50:55

each other, like they're all in

50:57

the same, they're definitely not sequels,

51:00

but characters and like brands or

51:02

different things show up between the

51:04

books. So that is not a

51:07

bad trilogy to get actually. Is

51:09

there any questions that you wish I

51:11

asked that you just things you want

51:13

to talk about? No, it's a fine

51:16

answer. No, I, well, I will say

51:18

I loved your questions. I

51:20

love going deep into like

51:22

art theory stuff. And so

51:24

this was like really wonderful.

51:26

And I guess as a

51:28

final thing I would like

51:30

to say, creating art right

51:32

now, just a compliment to

51:34

you and to the podcast

51:36

and like creation right now,

51:39

creating spaces where buccaroos

51:41

can be safe. and express themselves

51:43

and to bring joy in these times.

51:46

So important. So thank you for

51:48

having me and for creating this and

51:50

you know and and it goes to

51:52

the listeners too like for you to

51:55

be able to make this you need

51:57

listeners like there's so much that

51:59

we are doing right now by

52:01

creating cultures and creating spaces.

52:03

And I just want you

52:05

to know how important that

52:08

is. It's a really beautiful

52:10

thing.